‘Freedom-loving’ NRA dictates what doctors can say to patients
We’ve heard a lot of rhetoric the last couple of years about the importance of keeping government out of the sacred, private relationship between doctors and their patients.
It was all a bunch of bull-oney.
For instance, the Florida Legislature has now passed a bill that makes it illegal for doctors to ask patients whether they have guns in their home and whether those guns are stored correctly to keep them out of the hands of children. It’s a question that many pediatricians ask as part of their standard spiel, along with ensuring that poisons and medicines are kept out of children’s reach and that swimming pools are monitored.
As Dr. Paul Robinson, a specialist in adolescent medicine, testified in vain to a Florida Senate committee:
“What if I have an adolescent who’s been bullied, who’s not suicidal? I don’t think, under the current bill, I’m entitled to ask him if there’s a gun in the home, or if he’s carried a gun to school, or if he’s thinking of harming someone else with a gun.”
Asking such questions would be against the law.
If you happen to believe that a doctor should not ask such questions, fine. You have the right to tell the physician that it’s none of his or her business. You have the right to change doctors. But you cannot logically argue that it is government’s place to dictate what can and cannot be said between patient and doctor. The fact that such gross intrusions into rights of privacy and free speech come from the allegedly small-government, pro-liberty right isn’t at all surprising.
And then there’s Texas. This week, Gov. Rick Perry signed a bill into law that requires women seeking an abortion to first undergo a sonogram. The attending physician is required by law to “describe the fetus, noting the size and condition of limbs and organs.” In addition, the patient must then wait 24 hours after the sonogram is performed before undergoing the abortion. As one person noted, the bill does everything but require the woman to give the fetus a name and schedule its funeral.
“Indeed, this bill is designed to shame women, as if we are daft creatures unable to make personal, private medical decisions without the paternalistic oversight of legislators,” the head of a Texas pro-choice group noted.
Again, these are allegedly small-government conservatives, conservatives dedicated to keeping government out of our private affairs, especially in relationships such as those between a doctor and patient, dictating what must be said and what must not be said in the privacy of a doctor’s office.
– Jay Bookman
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617 comments Add your comment
Normal
May 26th, 2011
3:53 pm
Kam,
Good crop! I love me some crowder peas! With REAL cornbread crumbled on top…yeah!
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
3:53 pm
BADA BING,
“Men can take Midol, but it just doesn’t know where to go!”
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
3:53 pm
Kamchak “And six tomato plants put in the ground last week that I’ve been totin’ water in jugs to keep from drying slap up”
Have you ever tried mulch gardening? It cuts down quite a bit on all that totin’ – even in dry weather.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
3:53 pm
“While the state of Texas is requiring a woman to have sonar prior to an abortion procedure ensures that the woman fully understands that a life is being extinguished should she proceed with her abortion.”
Yeah, cause they are way too stupid to know that to begin with.
Normal
May 26th, 2011
3:54 pm
Bosch,
Have you been peeking?
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
3:54 pm
Oh, sorry there stands…didn’t hit the refresh button soon enough.
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
3:55 pm
“Invasion of privacy is invasion of privacy regardless.”
Isn’t it your doctors JOB to “invade” your privacy?
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
3:55 pm
@@,
“Invasion of privacy is invasion of privacy regardless.”
Invasion of privacy? My employer doesn’t look at my woo-hoo..does yours?
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
3:55 pm
“Yeah, cause they are way too stupid to know that to begin with. ”
Bosch, I see it kinda like a pop-up box on your computer when you try empty the recycling bin, “Are you sure you want to permanently delete this file? Yes or no”. It actually makes sense.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
3:56 pm
Yeah, Peadawg, cause that’s exactly the same thing….
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
May 26th, 2011
3:57 pm
Jay, you’re the master at twisting and contorting, so I guess I should take your comment as a compliment. Thank you for your kindness but I’m afraid that I’ve reached the point in life where my muscle flexibility would prevent me from practicing yoga.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
3:57 pm
cowboy….your woo-hoo? Are you talking about my weapon or my gun? One’s for killin’, one’s for fun!
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
3:57 pm
Thulsa Doom,
“is the gay fascination with the uncut, real deal.”
Um…what is your fascination with them?
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
3:58 pm
Oh, and Jay — this page — lots of jumping going on.
Kamchak
May 26th, 2011
3:58 pm
Bosch
Thanks for the dance, but not the visual. For that, you get an Insane Clown Posse video.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
K’chak
Planning a trip to Innisfree?
Don’t catch the reference, josef, other than it was a village in the John Wayne film The Quiet Man.
Normal
May 26th, 2011
3:58 pm
Gotta go…have fun y’all
Oh! Josef,
Congratulations on finishing up another year with your kids. Well done, my friend, well done indeed.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
3:58 pm
And Peadawg, it makes sense for a doctor to counsel a woman if she is considering an abortion — it doesn’t make sense to require it by law, in my opinion, of course.
Adam
May 26th, 2011
3:59 pm
Well if taxpayers don’t pay for the sonograms, that makes it even worse. In order to have an abortion, authoritarian conservatives say that person must pay an ADDITIONAL amount of money for sonograms? That is nonsense.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
3:59 pm
I don’t think that amounts to much, jm. It’s a ruling on a technicality in how the bill passed, not on the bill itself. We’ll see, but the WI legislators will probably just repass it.
They better hurry though. Recalls are coming.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
3:59 pm
BADA BING,
“Are you talking about my weapon or my gun? ”
Can’t they both be for fun?
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:00 pm
Peadawg: “Show me legislation or even proposed legislation that tells people what they can and cannot eat. Adults I mean” – I’m not sure of one. Why do you ask?
Your unfounded assertion about Democrats and the fat kid at 3:12.
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
4:00 pm
“Yeah, Peadawg, cause that’s exactly the same thing…. ”
You look over the file and make sure you don’t need it anymore. “Are you sure you want to permanently delete this file? Yes or no”
You look at the sonogram and make sure you don’t want it anymore. “Are you sure you want to permanently kill the fetus? Yes or no”
Not the EXACT same, but pretty similar nonetheless.
Bosch
May 26th, 2011
4:00 pm
No way I’m opening that one Kamchak!
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
4:00 pm
“And Peadawg, it makes sense for a doctor to counsel a woman if she is considering an abortion — it doesn’t make sense to require it by law, in my opinion, of course.” – I like the law. I see nothing wrong with making sure the woman is fully aware of the choice she is about to make. It is a pretty big decision, afterall.
“Your unfounded assertion about Democrats and the fat kid at 3:12.” – The “fat kid on a cupcake” comment was joke. It was from the Van Wilder movie back in 2002. “I want you all over that ball like a fat kid on a cupcake! “
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
4:01 pm
jewcowboy,
My fascination with gays? None. Live and let live. I’ve no problem with them. Just don’t think its cool for them to force their views of male sexuality on couples who have babies in SF and want to circumcise their child. Is that not intrusive?
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:01 pm
An indictment of Medicare. At the top of NYTimes most emailed.
Squandering Medicare’s Money
By RITA F. REDBERG
Published: May 25, 2011
San Francisco
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/26/opinion/26redberg.html
Jay 3:59 – recalls or not, they better get the bill passed. Its critical to the effective management of state and local gov’t.
Jay, if this is so abhorrent, when are you going to start screaming about the changes Reed wants to make to city pensions?
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:02 pm
Peadawg: Then again, rereading it, I see you were just making a joke that had nothing to do with food legislation, so nevermind :p
Real Scooter
May 26th, 2011
4:02 pm
Hey Doggone,if you are interested in reading about what I said to Peadawg in my 3:28 I can tell you where to see it but don’t know how to post a link on this blog.
Go to NRA.com , from there click on NRA/ILA Reports.Sorry,but that’s all the proof I can provide for what I said.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
4:02 pm
NORMAL
I have to keep nitro on me…luckily, I’ve never had to use it…there’s a funny one on the one time I though I did though! The custodian was spray painting in a closed environment. All of the sudden, I went weak and completely lost my balance. It scared me, so I took the nitro and took off to the ER. Turns out, the paint fumes lower the blood pressure and the nitro lowered it even more! Doc told me I did do the right thing in coming into the ER, even if I didn’t taking the nitro..! But, live and learn…
THULSA
Seriously, Mate, where are you getting that thing about gays and uncircumsized? What crowd DO you run with. Inquiring minds want to know…
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
4:03 pm
Thulsa Doom,
“My fascination with gays? ”
No, your seeming fascination with un-cut wang dang doodles?
“Just don’t think its cool for them to force their views of male sexuality on couples who have babies in SF and want to circumcise their child. ”
Please post the link that shows where “the gays” are behind this.
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
4:03 pm
“That is nonsense.”
Not if you think about it the “right” way around: anything to make it more difficult to have an abortion is the goal
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
4:03 pm
cowboy you ain’t right. I like it!
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
4:05 pm
josef nix,
“What crowd DO you run with. Inquiring minds want to know…”
That is what I’ve been wondering.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
4:06 pm
The PC crowd is behind the circumcision ban in SF. They want to save the trees, but not the hardwoods?
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:06 pm
Jay, time jumping still occurring, my 4:01 should’ve been after jewcowboy’s 4:05….
Jay
May 26th, 2011
4:06 pm
So jm, if Medicare refused to cover those procedures based on the recommendations of that panel of experts, how long do you think it would be before the cry “death panel!” was raised?
Five seconds? Ten at the most?
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
4:07 pm
This just in: Sarah Palin offers American voters half-off her 2012 Presidential bid.
This offer may not be combined with any other half-off Palin offer, including but not limited to Alaskan governorship.
JKL2
May 26th, 2011
4:07 pm
I had a brother-in-law who spent a couple days in a mental hospital. The hospital called and said we needed to come pick him up because he was being discharged. When I got to the hospital I was told that under current laws they couldn’t tell me where he was or if he was even a patient there. After 2.5 hours and talking with five different people, he was finally brought down to me.
The more government bureaucracy we put into medical care, the more costly and inefficient it becomes. Get the government out of healthcare and let it focus on what it was created to do.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
4:07 pm
K’CHAK
“I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree,
And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made;
Nine bean rows will I have there, a hive for the honey bee,
And live alone in the bee-loud glade.”
–W. B. Yeats, “The Lake Isle of Innisfree”
pogo
May 26th, 2011
4:07 pm
Good one BADA BING.
As for the topic, one would think that if a troubled/suicidal teenager has responsible parents then they would have already taken action if they had accessible weapons. Of course those knives up on the counter and their medicine cabinet full of xanax, vicodin, prozac, tylenol and whatever else would also be problematic. Then there is always those troublesome household chemicals.
The trouble is Jay, you can legislate dand restrict all you want but there will always be ways around what you are legislating and restricting. If for instance, YOU wanted gun control (that’s a stretch, isn’t it???) and you got it, then that wouldn’t stop the guns. It would only make them go underground. If people want things and they are willing to pay for them, they can get them especially now that we have an open border with Mexico.
You know as well as I that this whole piece has its origins in your own liberal anti-NRA/anti-gun ownership political belief system. It isn’t about the extremism of the NRA. It is your own hatred of anyone owning a gun in the USA. Guns aren’t going away anymore than drugs are going away because there will always be a market and supplier for them. And don’t look to the politicians for help. Corruption is the new way of doing business in America and the present administration is absolutely ate up with it. Chicago style baby!
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:08 pm
Medicare pays for routine screening colonoscopies in patients over 75 even though the United States Preventive Services Task Force, an independent panel of experts financed by the Department of Health and Human Services, advises against them (and against any colonoscopies for patients over 85), because it takes at least eight years to realize any benefits from the procedure. Moreover, colonoscopies carry risks of serious complications (like perforations) and often lead to further unnecessary procedures (like biopsies). In 2009, Medicare paid doctors more than $100 million for nearly 550,000 screening colonoscopies; around 40 percent were for patients over 75.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/26/opinion/26redberg.html
Misty Fyed
May 26th, 2011
4:08 pm
It truly would be nice if those pesky conservatives would keep there noses out of government affairs. I mean, aren’t they for small government and privacy. Unfortunately, the only way to keep the libs from going off the deep end is through government intervention. You dems haven’t seen a moral line you aren’t willing to jump over with both feet without looking. If unchecked, you’d soon be talking about the privacy of mercy killing decisions. Then you’d decide that quality of life over 90 can’t be good so it’s for Grandma’s own good that we put her out her misery. Nosey conservatives have no right to interject on what is a deeply private and personal consideration.
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
4:08 pm
“anything to make it more difficult to have an abortion is the goal” – This law doesn’t do that, though. All the law does is require the doctor to make sure the woman is fully aware of the decision she is about to make. Nothing wrong with that.
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:09 pm
Two recent randomized trials found that patients receiving two popular procedures for vertebral fractures, kyphoplasty and vertebroplasty, experienced no more relief than those receiving a sham procedure. Besides being ineffective, these procedures carry considerable risks. Nevertheless, Medicare pays for 100,000 of these procedures a year, at a cost of around $1 billion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/26/opinion/26redberg.html
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
4:09 pm
And the 24 hour requirement is to make sure the woman isn’t making any rash decisions…letting her think it over. Nothing wrong with that.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
4:10 pm
jewcowboy
Wonder if he’s been going to certain clubs on certain nights…?
BADA
You are just plumb bad!
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:10 pm
Jay, I’ll tell you why this waste and $10’s of Billions more occurs in Medicare. Lobbying groups and the fact that the government is spending someone else’s money.
This is the #1 reason private corporations can and will do this better than government if the correct formula is crafted.
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
4:10 pm
“The PC crowd is behind the circumcision ban in SF. They want to save the trees, but not the hardwoods?”
Greg
May 26th, 2011
4:11 pm
@@ at 3:24
the absence of guns from children’s homes and communities is the most reliable and effective measure to prevent firearm-related injuries in children and adolescents
Come on now. Abistence is the best way to prevent pregnancy, but I don’t think anybody views that as realistic.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
4:11 pm
Thanks for the heads up jm. Just reported it.
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:11 pm
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The full extent of Medicare payments for procedures with no known benefit needs to be quantified. But the estimates are substantial. The chief actuary for Medicare estimates that 15 percent to 30 percent of health care expenditures are wasteful. Medicare spending exceeded $500 billion in 2010, suggesting that $75 billion to $150 billion could be cut without reducing needed services.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/26/opinion/26redberg.html
GD government.
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
4:12 pm
“law doesn’t do that, though.”
If the cost accrues to the patient it most certainly DOES make it more difficult.
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
4:12 pm
jm — “the United States Preventive Services Task Force, an independent panel of experts financed by the Department of Health and Human Services, advises against them (and against any colonoscopies for patients over 85), because it takes at least eight years to realize any benefits from the procedure.”
I question that. I had my first colonoscopy about three years ago, and it *saved my life.*
“Moreover, colonoscopies carry risks of serious complications (like perforations) and often lead to further unnecessary procedures (like biopsies).”
From what my gastroenterologist tells me, the risk of complications (like perforations) is very, very low and that biopsies can usually be perfomed during the scope procedure itself.
I don’t know this Redberg person, but I have to wonder why her opinion and my personal experience seem to disagree so much. I’m not saying she’s wrong, just that what I’ve personally seen and experienced doesn’t line up with what she’s saying.
Do we have any doctors in the blog?
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:13 pm
Peadawg: All the law does is require the doctor to make sure the woman is fully aware of the decision she is about to make. Nothing wrong with that.
By making her pay EXTRA money to get a sonogram, and forcing her to wait 24 hours (possibly more, depending on availability of doctors who can legally perform the procedure). Not sure if it’s in the Texas bill, but other such bills include the doctor reading from a medically unsound script and making the woman go to an anti-abortion retraining program first.
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
4:13 pm
“I don’t recall ever being asked if a gun is in the house”
It might not come up. If you child is not being bullied, or is not severely depressed…why WOULD a Doctor ask? But this bill prevents the Doctor from asking EVEN IF it might be relevent to the child’s medical condition.
Greg
May 26th, 2011
4:14 pm
I have heard about doctors asking this question for years now, but I have been to several doctors and my kids have been to quite a few doctors over the years and I don’t recall ever being asked if a gun is in the house. I suppose if asked, my answer would be several.
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:14 pm
jm: Medicare has waste, so we need to get rid of the whole program.
me: Why don’t you just point out the flaws and call your congressman to get him/her to bring up legislation to close those flaws. Fix it, don’t get rid of it.
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
4:15 pm
The time shifting is going on every time I post. I find myself disagreeing with some posters before they say anything.
Mighy Righty
May 26th, 2011
4:16 pm
Doctors questioning children about their parents guns is an invasion of privacy. I would like to see Georgia pass a similar law. When our President favors executive orders to circumvent our constitutional rights, premptive action by the states is a good thing.
A woman with a clear mind will have no problem with the Texas law. I haven’t thought about it but maybe naming the fetus, obtaining a birth certificate and paying for a funeral would be a good idea as well.
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:16 pm
Jay 4:06 – I think its ridiculous that the Republicans beat up Democrats for the “death panel” thing, even though if one is being honest, that is kind of what it is (not exactly). But do the R’s deserve criticism for making a big deal out of something that is helpful to taxpayers, saves money, and shrinks government? Of course, yes….
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:16 pm
Joe Mama 4:12 – “Rita F. Redberg, a cardiologist, is a professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco, and the editor of Archives of Internal Medicine.”
Kamchak
May 26th, 2011
4:17 pm
Doggone/GA
No, I haven’t tried mulch gardening. Thanks for the advice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you, josef,
What a lovely poem.
I like beans, but not nine rows worth.
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
4:17 pm
“By making her pay EXTRA money to get a sonogram, and forcing her to wait 24 hours (possibly more, depending on availability of doctors who can legally perform the procedure).”
Cry me a river. You want an abortion? Fine. But you need to know what you’re getting yourself into and the consequences. Again, nothing wrong with this. It’s no different than any other intense medical procedure.
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:18 pm
jm: I think its ridiculous that the Republicans beat up Democrats for the “death panel” thing, even though if one is being honest, that is kind of what it is (not exactly).
That’s not what it is. Death Panels do exist, but not in the ACA. The Death Panels are called “Health Insurance Companies”
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:18 pm
Adam 4:14 – read the article. No legislation is needed to fix it. Government is just incompetent and corrupt (organizationally, if not ethically).
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:19 pm
Peadawg: Cry me a river. You want an abortion? Fine. But you need to know what you’re getting yourself into and the consequences. Again, nothing wrong with this. It’s no different than any other intense medical procedure.
You are assuming no woman knows what they are getting into. Forcing a sonogram is forcing a woman to pay money for useless information. They know what a fetus looks like. The intent is to try to flip some sort of moral switch on a woman that shouldn’t even be there in the first place. A fetus is not a person and does not live. Therefore, a sonogram is a useless medical procedure for anything other than determining the possible future sex if it manages to be born (and even then you still might not know).
So yes, there is PLENTY wrong with this.
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:20 pm
Adam 4:18 – what do you think the IPAB is?
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
4:20 pm
josef nix,
“Wonder if he’s been going to certain clubs on certain nights…?”
Jay
May 26th, 2011
4:20 pm
It’s no different than any other intense medical procedure.
Bull, Peadawg. What other medical procedure requires a 24-hour waiting period and a script dictated by state legislators?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
May 26th, 2011
4:20 pm
Consistency-devoid Republics….unless you consider hypocrisy to be consistency
BADA BING
May 26th, 2011
4:21 pm
gardeners…weather report , I am in Fayetteville and the storm is approaching fast. Anyone have rain yet?
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
4:21 pm
Josef Nix,
The legislation for the circumcision is sponsored by a gay man in San Francisco- link below, it is widely hailed as having strong support from the gay community. If I remember correctly at least a couple of posters on the subject had written the same thing when Jay posted his article and if you google some articles on why the law was proposed you will probably see the same thing. To each his own but it seems to me that forcing your views on people goes a little too far. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cityinsider/detail?entry_id=77266
Granny Godzilla
May 26th, 2011
4:21 pm
I hope there are some doctors in FL brave enough to keep asking.
Gale
May 26th, 2011
4:22 pm
Peadawg, the abortion law does create an undue burden on some women. Abortions are not performed in every village and town. If a woman has to travel a fair distance, then either return the next day or stay over night, in addition to pay for an unnecessary sonogram, it will make the abortion more difficult. Now, you may say that is just fine and doubtless the legislators do too. I am fairly sure most women do not make “rash” decisions about terminating a pregnancy. Rash decisions may have led to the pregnancy in the first place, but that is another issue. This law is specifically aimed at making a completely legal, private medical procedure more difficult.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
4:22 pm
There was a Catholic Church and a synagogue across the street from each other. They were always trying to outdo the other. The Jews put in a rose window, the Catholics added a gold cross to the steeple…and on and on. One year at Yom Kippur the Catholics gave their priest a new Cadillac and waited until Kol Nidre and as the Jews were coming out, the priest came out, sprinkled some holy water over the car, said a prayer and drove off. The Jews waited until midnight mass on Christmas Eve, presented the rabbi with a Mercedes, he said a prayer over it, cut two inches off the tail pipe and drove off…
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
4:22 pm
“Bull, Peadawg. What other medical procedure requires a 24-hour waiting period and a script dictated by state legislators.”
Example: Knee replacement surgery (my dad just had it)
He had the initial appointment with the doc in December for x-rays and whatnot.
He didn’t have the actual procedure until March.
That’s a hell of a lot longer than 24 hours.
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
4:22 pm
“But you need to know what you’re getting yourself”
and what God given ability makes you think a woman DOESN’T KNOW what she’s “into” when she seeks an abortion?
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:24 pm
For “Death Panel” (IPAB) deniers, here it is, created by Dems (thank god):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Payment_Advisory_Board
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
4:25 pm
“Doctors questioning children about their parents guns is an invasion of privacy. ”
Again..invasion of privacy? Your doctor feeling your prostate is not an invasion of privacy, but inquiring about the safety conditions in which your children live is? Strange definition of invasion of privacy…
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:25 pm
jm: The proposals made by IPAB must not include any recommendation to ration health care, raise revenues or increase Medicare beneficiary premiums, increase Medicare beneficiary cost sharing (deductibles, coinsurance, or co-payments), or otherwise restrict benefits or modify eligibility criteria.
Now you explain to me, exactly what part of IPAB makes it a death panel?
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
May 26th, 2011
4:25 pm
What distinguishes abortion from other invasive procedures is that it involves the taking of life not preserving it. Under the informed consent laws abortion should require complete information regarding the specifics of the procedure and sufficient time for consideration prior to making a decision. The 24 hour waiting period, therefore makes sense.
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
4:27 pm
THULSA
So, because “a” gay introduced it and somebody decided it had “strong support” (whatever that means) in the gay community leads to a “status symbol” conclusion…? You know how fallacious that line of thought is…
jewcowboy
I guess you and I can’t go to those bars on that night. Ready file a class action lawsuit?
Mighy Righty
May 26th, 2011
4:27 pm
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:18 pm
jm: I think its ridiculous that the Republicans beat up Democrats for the “death panel” thing, even though if one is being honest, that is kind of what it is (not exactly).
That’s not what it is. Death Panels do exist, but not in the ACA. The Death Panels are called “Health Insurance Companies”
Let’s get this straight. Obamacare requires death panels. Second thinG you need to understand is with Insurance companies, you have the right to legal action if they do not comply with the terms of the policy. With the government, YOU CANNOT SUE THE GOVERNMENT.
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
4:29 pm
“What God given ability makes you think men don’t know what they’re getting into when they seek a vasectomy?”
Poor comparison. No one is trying to make THAT medical procedure harder to get. No one is making men view a sonogram of their willie and wait 24 hours before the procedure is done.
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:29 pm
Mighy Righty: Obamacare requires death panels.
Since this is an outright lie, I must ask you to….
Cite please.
This should be good…
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
4:30 pm
“Peadawg, the abortion law does create an undue burden on some women. ” – Let me get out the world’s smallest violen and play a sad song.
“and what God given ability makes you think a woman DOESN’T KNOW what she’s “into” when she seeks an abortion?” – What God given ability makes you think men don’t know what they’re getting into when they seek a vasectomy? What God given ability makes you think people don’t know what they’re getting into when they seek ANY medical procedure for that matter? What the f*ck is wrong with requiring a doctor to counsel the patient if she wants an abortion? Give me a break, people.
jm
May 26th, 2011
4:30 pm
Adam 4:25 – the formula they will use to determine if a procedure is effective or not
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
4:31 pm
Thulsa Doom,
“The base of our argument is you’re spending incredible amounts of money doing painful and damaging surgery to an unwilling patient,” he said.
Yeah…that’s the same thing as making an un-cut wang a status symbol.
“To each his own but it seems to me that forcing your views on people goes a little too far”
Since we are talking about California, may I introduce you to Prop 8: http://www.whatisprop8.com/
josef nix
May 26th, 2011
4:31 pm
GALE
Howdy! Long time no hear from…so, what is your opinion on uncircut wang dand doodles?
Thulsa Doom
May 26th, 2011
4:31 pm
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:14 pm
jm: Medicare has waste, so we need to get rid of the whole program.
me: Why don’t you just point out the flaws and call your congressman to get him/her to bring up legislation to close those flaws. Fix it, don’t get rid of it.
Adam,
The history of the cost of the Medicare program tells us the system doesn’t work efficiently and never has. For example
In 1965 Part A of Medicare was introduced. It was forecast that 25 years later it would cost us 9 billion in 1990. True cost in 1990- 67 billion dollars.
In 1967 Part B of Medicare was introduced and once again we were told that in a 25 year projection that in 1990 it would cost 12 billion dollars. Actual cost in 1990- 110 billion dollars.
In 1988 the Medicare Home Benefit was added and we were told it would cost 4 billion dollars. A mere 5 years later the actual cost was 10 billion dollars.
Given Medicare’s historical cost overruns that vastly exceeded original budgetary estimates and given the generally accepted fact that a minimum of 20% of every dollar on Medicare goes to waste, fraud, and abuse then please explain to me why you think this program works.
No hyperbole, no opinion, no putdowns, no talking points. Just give me some empirical evidence as to why Medicare works so successfully and efficiently in light of the facts I’ve just presented.
Joe Mama
May 26th, 2011
4:31 pm
jm — ““Rita F. Redberg, a cardiologist, is a professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco, and the editor of Archives of Internal Medicine.”
I already saw that. Despite her qualifications, I am still troubled by why her statements and my personal experience disagree so significantly.
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:32 pm
jm: Health insurance companies decide who they will cover, and when, and for how much, based on nothing but money.
Determining whether or not a procedure is effective based on medical knowledge and advice? And making recommendations that are not auto-approved?
Yeah, sounds like a death panel to me alright (/sarcasm)
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
4:32 pm
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.),
“What distinguishes abortion from other invasive procedures is that it involves the taking of life not preserving it.”
Please prove that through scientific documentation.
Jay
May 26th, 2011
4:33 pm
Peadawg, when the government tells you that you have to wait 24 yours to get a vasectomy, and when the state Legislature writes a script that the doctor has to recite telling you that after this surgery you’ll never be the man you used to be, THEN you can make such a comparison.
And even then it won’t be a FAIR comparison.
Peadawg
May 26th, 2011
4:33 pm
You would think requiring a woman to think it over for 24 hours, talk with her family, boyfriend, etc. to be 100% positive that it isn’t a rash decision fueled by emotions, to be 100% positive she understands the possible consequences of having an abortion, would be a good thing. But noooooo, she should be able to go in and have it done that day, no questions asked. God y’all are a sick bunch.
Message from Matti
May 26th, 2011
4:34 pm
Why did gun lobbyists make private conversations in a doctors’s office *their* business? Trampling the first amendment in the name of the second? How does anybody think this is a good idea?
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:34 pm
Thulsa: Simple. Medicare works because it provides care for people who would otherwise have no care option unless they paid for it all themselves.
Your examples of cost overruns and waste still do not convince me that we need to scrap the entire program, instead of trying to fix it.
jewcowboy
May 26th, 2011
4:35 pm
josef nix,
“I guess you and I can’t go to those bars on that night. Ready file a class action lawsuit?”
I have a turtleneck you can borrow.
Adam
May 26th, 2011
4:35 pm
What distinguishes abortion from other invasive procedures is that it involves the taking of life not preserving it.
Not Intended to be a Factual Statement
Doggone/GA
May 26th, 2011
4:35 pm
“What distinguishes abortion from other invasive procedures is that it involves the taking of life not preserving it.”
Anytime you removing living cells from their host and allow them to die, you are taking life, not preserving it. Get a kidney removed? You’re killing the living kidney cells.