Where illegal immigration, business and the law collide

I don’t think the politicians know what they’re doing. I just don’t think they’ve thought this through.

“through”, as in, past the next election? probably not, no.

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Not to belittle the restaurant owner, but depending on how he voted last election, it could be a case of “be careful of what you ask for, because you just might get it.”

People want undocumented aliens removed from our society, so they elected people they thought would do just that. I think the disconnect comes into play when you look at the long term effects and costs. Nobody looks long term at anything anymore, so it doesn’t surprise me.

After the results of the last election, I can’t say that I feel sorry for the owner, but that’s just me.

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It’s like a speeding ticket eh? Laws only govern those who will be governed.

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Jay, I hate to say it but this sounds like a made up story. You say he is in debt Millions of dollars, he must have one hell of a restaurant. If his business is doing that good why doesn’t he pay his debt? He must be a liberal. just keep borrowing and worry about it later.

If our Govt. was worried about losing low wage help then why doesn’t Obama get more legal immigrant help for everyone and our illegal problem will slowly go away as they won’t have jobs.

I think you heard what this guy had to say after way to many drinks.

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He must be a liberal. just keep borrowing and worry about it later.

It didn’t take long for the labels to start flying…

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SoCo, isn’t that what they preach, keep printing money and we can spend our way out of debt.

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Morning, AmVet

“My bank didn’t have any idea they’d be passing a law like this.”

Yeah, there’s a lot of complicity here. Aiding and abetting? It’s not just the worker, or the business owner. But as the guy pointed out, his industry doesn’t have ‘clout.’

________________________________________________________________

Is not this man also saying “if I have to fire these workers, American citizens will not come forward to take these jobs. I’ve had some of these people on staff for years, but an American won’t take this job for a week”?

Question I have to ask: what good comes from a law like this?

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AmVet @ 7:38, WHUT PART OF ILLEGAL DON’T U UNNERSTAND?!?!

There, got that brilliant riposte out of the way.

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“this sounds like a made up story” = “this conflicts with my view of reality, so it must be false”

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poison pen

Haven’t heard someone preach that message, but if you have…..

ty: “It didn’t take long for the labels to start flying…”

yeah, kinda like “undocumented alien”.

Don’t know much about immigration law, do you? That is one of the plain language legal terms for people who enter without inspection or have no legal immigration status. I could use proper immigration lexicon here, but few would probably understand what I was saying.

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It is hard not to be sympathetic to this businessman. However, being a little slow on the uptake, why is it that he would lose his business if HB 87 is implemented. I am guessing it is, he does well because of the low wages that he pays illegal immigrants that work in the kitchen.
There is no easy solution to illegal immigration.
Let us say, that one of his employees has an accident after leaving work. He goes to the hospital and because it is a serious accident, the man racks up $500,000 in medical bills. The county and state pay the bill, Government cannot afford that. There has to be a solution and a start is having people that are in the country legally as workers and have insurance for them.

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“He could obey the law, lose a very big chunk of his ktichen staff and be forced out of business”

You mean with 10% unemployment, he couldn’t find ANYBODY to hire? Pahlease….

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watchdog

“He goes to the hospital and because it is a serious accident, the man racks up $500,000 in medical bills. The county and state pay the bill, Government cannot afford that. There has to be a solution ”

Remember how during the health care reform battle there was a proposal to allow undocumented workers purchase health insurance, an full cost with no subsidies?

Care to guess who killed that idea?

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Ty, that was funny, SoCo it always comes back to bite ya.

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Dawg,

He can’t find anyone to work that many hours for those wages.

When your workforce is illegal you don’t have to worry so much about complaints regarding working conditions, breaks, vacation, time off, and you never have to worry about unions.

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DebbieDoRight

May 24th, 2011
8:00 am
The restaurant owner talked about the new bill from his standpoint, but it will also affect the economy in other ways. Apartment complexes will be effected, as well as rental properties, county and city buses / jobs, grocery stores etc. This is gonna become one big domino effect, and like SoCo said, no one thought the process out to its conclusion, they just wanted to look good before the next election.

Wow, does our country even have any legal people working anymore, the sky will fall. Maybe we should takt the Millions of people in the unemployment lines to backfill all the imagined loss of jobs.

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Try hopping the fence at Turner Field and see what happens…they’ll tackle your butt and haul you off to jail for trespassing!!
Why??? Because trespassing is illegal!!
Undocumented Workers are trespassing on USA soil without the expressed written consent of the owners….Americans!!

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Complete utter fairy tail…………the end. Nice thing about being a blog writer. Facts and truth arent necessary.

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“Undocumented Workers are trespassing on USA soil without the expressed written consent of the owners….Americans!!”

America was built by undocumented workers. Just ask the Indians/Native Americans.

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“I don’t think the politicians know what they’re doing. I just don’t think they’ve thought this through.”

Change “this” to “anything” and you have the understatement of the year.

“Where illegal immigration, business and the law collide…..with morality.
God Bless and protect refugees all over this world.”

Holy beejeezus…how’s that fainting couch? Comfy?

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Well AmVet, twenty minutes and no one can come up with an answer to “Question I have to ask: what good comes from a law like this?”

Now we’ll get an “I can’t think of anything so I’ll give an answer along the lines of, ‘no one answered ’cause we’re just not into you’.” //sarc//

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The very first sentence on the e-verify website (http://www.uscis.gov) states:

“U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization.”

Sounds like Mr. Small Businessman hasn’t been trying too hard to follow all the laws.

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“Then lets get rid of all the laws, or do you want to only get rid of the ones that suit you?”

Nope. I just want to know how much more in taxes you’re willing to pay to locate, catch, process, and deport all those millions of illegal immigrants that are here now. And how much additional you’re willing to pay to keep our entire borders – INCLUDING our sea borders 100% secure uncrossable.

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“Question I have to ask: what good comes from a law like this?”

That 10% unemployment in GA will fall once all the illegals go back/stop coming.

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Two more thoughts on this situation.

Why in the name of law-averse Republicans, have the fake conservatives NOT gone after the thousands of employers, in Georgia alone, who profited illegally from using these people?

Where are their loud, clear and incessant demands that these people be brought to justice and made to pay fines to offset the economic damage? Oh that’s right. After the Wall Street boys got off essentially scott-free for their criminal negligence and malfeasance, we now have this bizarre con platform whereby the thieves should never pay back the victims for their crimes.

So, as we all know – the demands from the right wing for basic, even handed, American justice never happened. Yes, a few of the more courageous are NOW starting to squeak the tiniest bit, but that is it.

Their outrage is predictably directed in ONE direction only. In fact, I doubt it is a stretch at all, to presume that they actually adore those unscrupulous businessmen, across a wide variety of industries and sectors, who lined their pockets with ill-gotten gains.

It’s the “pro-business” mentality, doncha know?

Also, to Misty’s point, the neo-cons HAD that chance.

But they went batshiite ballistic when it was proposed.

Regardless that it was a reasoned and reasonable first major step towards addressing this massive problem.

Again pragmatism was the cost for Republican absolutism…

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“That 10% unemployment in GA will fall once all the illegals go back/stop coming”

That’s not the only scenario possible, though. Another possibility is that school drop-outs will rise and it will be older teenagers who take those low-paying jobs as an alternative to going to school. Which would NOT reduce the unemployment rate at all.

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Where’s My Party?

Where illegal immigration, business and the law collide…..with morality.
God Bless and protect refugees all over this world.”

Holy beejeezus…how’s that fainting couch? Comfy?

Never saw a fainting couch at a pro-immigration rally, but I did see a picture of Nikki Halley at a Tea Party rally last week – it was her and two cheesy lawn chairs……Now I don’t care who you are…that’s just plain funny

Where is your party? On the wrong side of this issue….and most others at the moment.

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“Nope. I just want to know how much more in taxes you’re willing to pay to locate, catch, process, and deport all those millions of illegal immigrants ”

We won’t have to if we keep making laws like this one. They’ll leave on their own.

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“I’ve had some of these people on staff for years, but an American won’t take this job for a week”? ”

He’s be surprised what people will do when their belly gets empty.

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“Another possibility is that school drop-outs will rise and it will be older teenagers who take those low-paying jobs as an alternative to going to school.” – That’s a bit of a stretch. But yes…it’s possible.

“So you’re saying I have a chance!!!”

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Peadawg

Do you know anyone out of work?

Have you asked them why they don’t take a job in the hospitality industry? (and please don’t come back with ‘they tried, but all the illegals have all the job”).

You may also want to consider the number of illegals has declined by about a million since the start of the recession. Should be more jobs for Americans, right? And our unemployment rate has changed how?

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0902/Illegal-immigrants-Which-states-have-lost-the-most

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“That’s a bit of a stretch. But yes…it’s possible”

Not as much of a stretch as you mgiht think. It’s probably dropped off a lot, but when I was in high school it was quite common for kids to just quit and get a job. And I went to school in a pretty affluent, middle-class neighborhood.

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he said that higher wages, and the higher prices he would have to charge as a result, would “break the model” and make his business unprofitable.

Jay, was that basically all of it, economically? Did he bring up the cost of hiring and training a new staff, plus what I’d imagine would be a very serious potential for some regular customers deciding not to patronize your business because their favorite people would be gone? (just curious, not trying to advance a case here…)

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“America was built by undocumented workers. Just ask the Indians/Native Americans.”

No, America was built by the people that came to this country and conquered it and continue to control it. Anytime another country thinks they can take it away today…bring it on!!

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“You aren’t betting any money on that, I hope.” – Why would they keep crossing the border if there are no jobs for them, no schools to go to, etc. etc.? Take away the opportunities and they’ll go back on their own and HOPEFULLY become a legal citizen some day.

“Do you know anyone out of work?” – Nope.

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He had contacted me, asking if I wanted to hear “the economic perspective of a small business owner,” with the understanding that he would remain anonymous.

“Some restaurant owners who publicly opposed this bill have received death threats, leading me to want to stay below the radar,” he explained in the email. On that basis, we agreed to meet.

jay goes clan-destine!!!

The greedy employer isn’t exploiting his employees!!??!! He cares for their well-being!!??!!

One question…if the waiter’s been in the country since the age of 5, why hasn’t he been allowed to apply for citizenship? It wasn’t his decision to come here.

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Jay

May 24th, 2011
8:16 am

Wouldn’t much of the clean air acts that you have been in favor of do the same thing to those business owners?

Why no fake tears for them?

Maybe Mr. Restaurant guy should come up with a new business model.

Ya know one that actually revolvs around following the law?

Do you also feel any and all who do not agree with the latest Health care reform should be able to obey it only if it makes life easier for them? You do understand there are millions who feel the health care reform willcost them more money right?

Why is that different, other than you like one idea and you don’t like the other?

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Happy birthday, BOB!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuQsSKzK9×0

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SoCom

Raising food servers to minimum wage? That would be nice.

But some servers, like at Pappas Steak house, would surely fight it. Even in that industry there’s an upper crust.

Jay

“I believe, and he said that higher wages, and the higher prices he would have to charge as a result, would “break the model” and make his business unprofitable.”

“Break the model.” Local tv station had a segment portion sizes in restaurants (I’ve had enough for two dinners and one lunch in one order before). Interviewed a restaurant owner, mom and pop operation, lots of regulars, who conducted a customer survey after seeing how much food was wasted. Said he’d go back to normal portions and cut prices by a buck or two (significant percentage of the meal cost).

Overwhelming response “we don’t care if we waste it. We want more. Every other restaurant gives us more. You do that, we’ll leave.”

That’s some model.

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“Never saw a fainting couch at a pro-immigration rally, but I did see a picture of Nikki Halley at a Tea Party rally last week – it was her and two cheesy lawn chairs……Now I don’t care who you are…that’s just plain funny.”

Not funny, rather immature, ugly and pitiful. But I expect nothing less from you.

“Where is your party? On the wrong side of this issue….and most others at the moment.”

It’s also too early to be assuming so much. On this issue, I happen to agree that illegal immigration should be controlled from the employer side. Workers are trying to make a living. It’s the businesses that hire them that should be punished. Nice try though.

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This from that frothing right wing NYTimes

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/dining/08crackdown.html

“We always, always hire the undocumented workers,” he said. “It’s not just me, it’s everybody in the industry. First, they are willing to do the work. Second, they are willing to learn. Third, they are not paid as well. It’s an economic decision. It’s less expensive to hire an undocumented person.”

While many restaurants do comply with the law, according to government officials, labor economists say immigrants are highly appealing hires because they tend to be especially loyal, stable and dependable. They are also more likely than United States citizens to work for lower wages without health insurance, sick days or paid vacations and paid breaks.

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ty

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Southern Comfort

May 24th, 2011
8:21 am

Some jobs ar best if left for part time employees. Some jobs that must be done inorder for the eonomy to flow MUST be done. However simply because the job must be done does not mean that the jobs are intended tobe careers used to support ones self and ones family.

I waited tables and tended bar all through college. Made good money when I had time to work, never once looked at it as a possible career or felt i should be paid as such.

Hell $200 in tips each night ain’t bad though. Com to think of it not that much less than I make in a year now, if you average it out

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“Peadawg @ 8:21, you think our immigration laws are scarier than starving, living as a serf, or being beheaded?

You’d bloody well jump the fence in a SECOND if you were in their place.”

That’s Mexico’s problem…not ours. We have waaaay to many people HERE that need to be taken care of first to worry about other country’s problems.

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“Do you know anyone out of work?” – Nope.

Now this is an interesting variation of an argument I’ve seen posited here before. That one was that in some supposed Republican suburban neighborhood, of one of the more strident contributors here, nobody was paying the price for the Wall Street foisted disaster forced upon the people.

It apparently only affected non-GOP environs…

And Aquagirl, thanks for the heads up earlier. You know me, always forgetting those little details!

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“And you say Jay has a credibility problem over the believability of his column?” – Nope. I never said that.

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Paul

May 24th, 2011
8:01 am
watchdog

“He goes to the hospital and because it is a serious accident, the man racks up $500,000 in medical bills. The county and state pay the bill, Government cannot afford that. There has to be a solution ”

Remember how during the health care reform battle there was a proposal to allow undocumented workers purchase health insurance, an full cost with no subsidies?

Care to guess who killed that idea?

Actually, the idea is not dead! Under Obamacare, the resturant ownweer will have to pay $2500 dollars per month per employee unless he gets the Pelosi treatment. Now, do you honestly think the resturamt owner is going to insure the same employees that he says he can’t afford to replace? Come on, seriously, why do you suppose he wants them to begin with? In the real world, injuries at work are covered under Wormans Comp Insurance. Want to place a bet as to whether his employees are covered?

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Doggone/GA

May 24th, 2011
8:15 am
“Then lets get rid of all the laws, or do you want to only get rid of the ones that suit you?”

Nope. I just want to know how much more in taxes you’re willing to pay to locate, catch, process, and deport all those millions of illegal immigrants that are here now. And how much additional you’re willing to pay to keep our entire borders – INCLUDING our sea borders 100% secure uncrossable.

Doggone, please show me where I said any of this in any of my posts, Please

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The neo-cons simply have to have somebody to despise. It is part of their ideological DNA. The Latinos have merely replaced the blacks, that were their target thirty years ago. And the Muslims have become their new Jews.

And THAT’S why I really like AmVet — no beating around the bush — just says it like it is.

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thomas: Who forced you to take out student loans?

Ummm thomas, I was speaking metaphorically. I had a 4 year scholarship.

Who we will bring them to justice! Unless of course you chose of your own free will to apply and then accept the student loans.

You know it’s dang if you do and danged if you don’t with you huh? Not making enough money? Well, then take your behind back to school this is America anyone can do better!! Can’t afford school? Get a student loan, this is America anyone can do better!! Can’t get a job to pay off your student loans? Well you chose, of your own free will, to take out student loans; that’s YOUR problem!!

But that would be silly personal responsibility and we know that is just soo 1980’s

Tell that to Rumsfield, Cheney et al.

Actions and decisions have consequences!

then why did the right go bananas when Obama made BP pay for their mistake? Does that sentence you made only apply to “the little people”?

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higher wages, and the higher prices he would have to charge as a result, would “break the model” and make his business unprofitable

Too bad. I say he needs a new model, one that actually fiollows the law. The really snooty high end restaurants don’t seem to have a problem making a profit – hire a good executive chef, require a coat and tie (and maybe a membership) to be seated, and go for it.

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Southern Comfort

May 24th, 2011
8:45 am

That is used because they also must report tips, although many do not report an accurate amount.

The small wage usually 2.13 an hour is averaged in with the tips. In my case an average of around $200. That would be for a diner shift from 4pm-10pm. Adding in the $2.13/hr for 6 hrs is like a total of $212 for around 6 hours of work.

What does that come out to? Around $32/hr total

Wow those poor souls!

How many folk you know right now making $32/hr?

What is that over 50k per yr, if working 40hrs per week?

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“I trust you all realize that this entire situation is the result of government setting wages instead of the market.”

???????????????????????????

(Actually a few more are in order after that doozie, but you get the idea!)

Finn, great call!

A nice cover of my favorite Zimmerman ditty from my fave Dylan LP…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5NkDnWGKuE&feature=related

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The really snooty high end restaurants don’t seem to have a problem making a profit

LOL, so the high-end restaurants don’t hire them? Wake up, please.

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Mighty Righty

How is “the resturant ownweer will have to pay $2500 dollars per month per employee unless he gets the Pelosi treatment” the same as “allowing undocumented workers to purchase their own health insurance with no subsidies”?

And workmen’s comp applies, if I understand correctly, only to on the job injury. Not other medical costs for the person or family.

But that all avoided the question: Guess who killed the proposal?

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I guess some people just don’t like capitalism. A business owner pocketing more money by being choosey in hiring practices is a keen eye on maximizing profits.

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thomas

That’s fine and good for the person that averages $200 a day in tips, but I know people who work as servers, and that’s not the norm, especially with the economy down as it is right now. I understand your point, and I don’t disagree with you. Just playing devil’s advocate today. Anything and everything done in America boils down to money. If we’re all aspiring to get to that corner office with a view, there has to be someone to take the server, fruit picker, and other jobs that we’re trying to leave behind.

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AmVet, that’s my favorite album too!

Meet me in The Morning
You’re Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go
Shelter From the Storm
Tangled Up in Blue

Pretty amazing record

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Aquagirl

May 24th, 2011
8:51 am

There are kids in our country who are malnourished or raped or shot in crossfire?

Shouldn’t we worry about our own problems before fixing others who have teh same problem as us?

http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm

http://www.news-press.com/…/Children-caught-Fort-Myers-shooting-crossfire-hospital-faces-aftermath – Cached

So shouldn’t all of us south of Canada be running accross those boarders?

Everyone to Canada, where nobody will starve, be raped or get caught in any crossfire!

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Doggone/GA

May 24th, 2011
8:32 am
“Why would they keep crossing the border if there are no jobs for them”

Because there WILL be jobs for them. As long as we are willing to punish the workers, and NOT the business owners they will come – because getting paid is better than not getting paid.

Doggone, at what point in time should Mexico take care of their own people. There Govt is extremely corrupt and the drug cartels run just about everything over there. Why do you feel that we have to allow these people into our country illegally?
I think they should take control of their own Govt and demand better living standards and more jobs, it’s called a revolution.

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“and BLOG GOD!!!! I’m getting tired of you telling me to slow down on my posting”

Bosch, you have two choices when going up against the BLOG GOD.

Acquiesce, or face the consequences.

Just sayin’!

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Jay : “For the record, he said he pays his kitchen staff between $8 and $15 an hour and abides by all tax and employment laws.”

“U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization.”

So what is his worry?

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Dave R. 8:56

Care for a mulligan in light of Jay’s 8:54?

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Jay, why does the Blog God hate Amanda Marcotte?

(this is the second time in the past few days that I’ve tried to link to her blog at pandagon dot net… and the post doesn’t say “awaiting moderation”, it just goes poof. the hell?)

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our boarders aboutas open as a drunk prom date

that’s so wrong on so many levels.

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“For the record, he said he pays his kitchen staff between $8 and $15 an hour and abides by all tax and employment laws.”

If that’s the case then I’m sure there are many many unemployed that would be willing to take that job and all his whining is for nothing.

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Illegal immigration is the 2011 version of slavery. Once here, they have to work for wages that are less than minimum, live sometimes 20 people to an apartment, are taken advantage of at every turn, are scared to death and in general are treated less than humanitarian. These conditions are promoted by liberal Democrats continuing to oppose any program that will lessen or stop illegal immigration. Immigrants who are here legally have rights and cannot be treated like slaves. It is Democrats, not Republicans who favor importation of illegal cheap labor. But then, Democrats do have a history of importing cheap labor.

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If we’re worried about folks getting benefits for free — how about the folks who pay no income taxes cuz they sent their businesses overseas? Yet, they rely on US Govt to defend those business interests?

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“tell me about the rabbits, George.”

First Peadawg throws out a great Dumb & Dumber reference, and now some fabulous Steinbeck, to boot!

Thanks, Bosch, You’re a good buddy.

I suppose some of those indicted think I write such things simply to stir up trouble.

Not so.

I can and have changed my positions on several matters of import over the past years- nuclear energy and capital punishment for example.

BUT, when it comes to taking adamant positions on these great ideas of our times, I don’t act like a capricious Republican, and dance to whomever is leading the band.

I excoriated Bush for Iraq. I’ve done the same with Obama. I flamed the previous administration for their disregard for US laws and sacred personal liberties – habeus corpus, illegally spying on Americans, etc, etc, etc. And I’ve done the same with this one. I hold virtually all of them accountable, to some complicit degree or another, for the wholesale sell off of we the people’s sovereignty to corporate dictators.

And it is irrefutable that some of these pro-war, pro-corporatist cons found some level of redemption on these matters. On January 21, 2009.

And then only until another Republican sits in the West Wing…

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I’m more than willing to help other countries IF WE CAN AFFORD IT…which we can’t

Do you advocate the support, (monetary, weapons & intelligence) that we give to Israel (in the billions) yearly?

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“AmVet, I don’t have the time to school you on the free market …”

Lord be praised!

jt, I salute you fro being mysteriously deceptive.

Reading your posts – especially that 9:06 – it is exceedingly difficult to determine if it is outright sarcasm, or if you really do proffer those ideas!

Well played. Keep me guessing…

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I agree with most conservatives regarding with abortion, spending, definition of marriage, some foreign policies… but when it comes to immigration I just can’t agree. We have over 12 million of illegal immigrants in this country and many of them if not most of them are just trying to make a living. They cost taxpayers a lot of money but they also greatly contribute to our economy. It’s just idiotic to have laws such as HB87 with out having a legal path for those who are in the country illegally or having the border secured.

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“The truth is we’re all in this together”, says GOP candidate Tim Pawlenty.

I’m guessing undocumented immigrants won’t come under that “WE” here for Pawlenty.

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jt: What were the three greatest presidents?
1-George Washington
2-Jefferson Davis
3-Sir Ronald Reagan

Overall, we have much to learn from these folks(how to ignore corrupt Federalies) and we have much to teach.(what Poncho Villa did wrong).

LOL Too funny!
PS: the president part was a classic!! you named a federalist, a manifest destiny whack job and indian murderer, and someone who, while still in office, couldn’t remember if he talked to Oliver North or not!!
Classic!!!

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Paul

May 24th, 2011
8:52 am
Mighty Righty

How is “the resturant ownweer will have to pay $2500 dollars per month per employee unless he gets the Pelosi treatment” the same as “allowing undocumented workers to purchase their own health insurance with no subsidies”?

And workmen’s comp applies, if I understand correctly, only to on the job injury. Not other medical costs for the person or family.

But that all avoided the question: Guess who killed the proposal?

It is apparent you don’t understamd that Obamacare passed. It is the law of the land. It was not killed and it was not modified. It does not contain “free health care” for anyone.

Workers Comp. pays a weekly wage for as long as an employee cannot work. It matches the amount one would get under unemployment.

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Mighty Righty: Illegal immigration is the 2011 version of slavery. Once here, they have to work for wages that are less than minimum, live sometimes 20 people to an apartment, are taken advantage of at every turn, are scared to death and in general are treated less than humanitarian.

True story — used to work as a social worker, knew this little girl (about 14), who kept running away from home to work the streets for this low life pimp. I used to ask her “Why? If she was looking for something better, (better life), why did she keep going back to this pimp who beat her up etc.?” She told me the life with him was better than the life she had at home. That opened my eyes big time.

These conditions are promoted by liberal Democrats continuing to oppose any program that will lessen or stop illegal immigration.

Well you just got off the boat from crazyville. That’s my cue to say goodbye. Goodbye.

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“Police departments across the US want to ban assault weapons, but politicians think they know better. Those same police want to require gun show dealers do the same background check as storefront dealers. Why do conservatives hate our police?”

They don’t They DO hate any organization which tries to CONTROL their actions, even if said actions are not a threat to others. While I respect many police officers, I do not respect many police organizations who try to limit freedoms.

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Jay 8:54 – if he pays $8-$15 an hour, there are plenty of legal immigrants and citizens available for hire at that price.

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$15.00 an hour???

Now I’M suffering from a bad case of wealth envy.

schnirt

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As usual the republicans want o have it both ways. Their big business interests love the cheap labor, hence the whining about the law from the agricultural interests. The best way to keep the labor cheap is to pass laws like this to keep the workers subservient and compliant and subject to exploitation.

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This story perfectly illustrates the problem. This guy can’t make ends meet unless he breaks the law. I suggest he go find another career. If he can’t make money hiring legit citizens, he either doesn’t know what he’s doing or he’s in the wrong location. Either way, it’s no excuse.

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““Look, I’m not a criminal. I don’t go around breaking the law, because for one thing I have way too much to lose. I do everything by the book.”

Jay, surely you have to agree this is a lie and you got either hoodwinked or didn’t think this through. The guy admits he already is hiring illegal aliens. Therefore, he’s already breaking the Federal law. This guy may be ignorant of the law (doubtful), but as I’ve been told a 100 times, ignorance is not an excuse.

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Jay 9:24 – interesting. Well, as you suggested in early postings about this, the guy is going to break the law and not use E-verify (since the penalties are mild). His choice.

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This is the fault of the labor unions: prior to the enaction of the minimum wage law (something bought and paid for by union bosses), illegal immigration was almost non-existent and black men had a higher rate of employment. Crime was down in the inner city (anyone recall the difference in Harlem in the 30s and the Harlem of today).

But, in order to secure higher wages for white workers, union bosses paid off politicians, and the minimum wage law went into effect. Another law also came into effect: the law of unintended consequences. By pricing low wage/low skill workers out of the work force, unemployment among black people shot up. Unable to gain the skill and money in order to move up in lifestyle, increasingly black people turned to two sources: crime and the government.

In addition, despite the minimum wage law, the low skill/low pay work STILL needed to be done. Where do business owners turn? Thats right, the undocumented worker. These were people who were willing to stay under the radar and did not have a footprint in America that would lead them and their boss to get in trouble (unlike natural born citizens having SS numbers, ties to the communities, etc.). Plus, the bosses could exert undue influence on these undocumented citizens because they carried with them the ability to turn those workers in surreptitiously.

I am a conservative. I do not blame someone for trying to make a living. We Americans have failed in our duty to provide the structure that would allow someone to come over here legally by not funding the INS (or whatever its called nowadays) and by not standing up to the unions. My grandfather came here legally, worked in the fields with his three sons to eke out a living (along with several other jobs). If the minimum wage law was in effect, he would have undoubtedly been on welfare, unemployable and without any skills or trade. But, by working his behind off, he and his sons slowly worked themselves out of their condition.

If you want to start blaming people, start by examining yourself.

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PDawg: I don’t pick and choose which countries, Debbie. Nice try though. I’ve stated me position about foreign aide on here many times.

Really? Could you reiterate your position again? I think I missed your previous posts on the subject.

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“And when I made that decision (to borrow the money), I didn’t have any idea that they’d be passing a law like this. My bank didn’t have any idea they’d be passing a law like this.”

No sh*t Sherlock…………………..

That is why folks have been making the choice between working for themselves and working for others forever…………it’s called trying to reduce the risk…………

As if those in the building industry knew the collapse was coming prior to asking for their loans……….maybe the guy doesn’t need to be running his own business if he didn’t account for all the variables………which include the worse case side of the equation………

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Why would he lose his kitchen staff?…all he has to do is replace them with people that are legal. Its not like people dont need jobs

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LWM

BTW, farmers will not (all) go out of business (though some may). Farm land itself will be worth much less. The benefits of the use of illegal immigration was accruing to land owners. I also expect further automation will occur over a longer time horizon. And farmers will generally switch to crops that are less labor intensive, though not all land will be suitable for alternative crops, so yes, some will go out of business.

I’m against the heavy hand of government. That said, just like basic protections for food safety and the environment and bank regulation, there has to be intelligent management of our borders for national security purposes as well as for general economic stability.

I’m anything but against immigration. I’m against anarchic immigration. Our immigration policy should be accepting far more foreign nationals, in particular ones with better education credentials.

Ugh. None of this is going to get solved over a blog.

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Sometimes………………..I’ll go to my local HomeD$pot to pick up 5 or 6 day laborers.
It is quite amusing to see them pass around a worn social security card.They thrust it into my face without asking.
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I can’t help but laugh.
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I explain that I (personally) still live in a country where I don’t give a rat’s but who you are,where you came from, or even your last name.All I want is your labor for eight hours.I NEED permission from NO ONE to hire who I require.
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I mention Federalie Corrupto, we all smile ………and know the deal.That is what they are escaping.
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I do volunteer history lessons through out the day and they do too. It is amazing how 90% of these guys agree that UNIONS COLLUDING with FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is what has destroyed their society…………………………….in Mexico……………you have to pay someone for permission to work.
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This is what is happening here.
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Because of me……….there are hundreds of legal or illegal aliens in the Athens area who are Ron Paul supporters.
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The yearning for individual liberty knows no borders. If HALF of what Ron Paul supports ever gets enacted…………..there would be Americans BEGGING Mexicans to come to work.For fantastic wages.Along with mooooooslims, indians, and croates.

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“The law requires him to demand ID of his workers, and he does so. He keeps it on file, as required, and submits the necessary documents to the state and feds”

http://www.dhs.gov/e-verify

As he will do under the new law. Does the new law require him to have a documents expert on hand?

I’m missing something here. How will the new law affect the guy?

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““Look, I’m not a criminal. I don’t go around breaking the law, because for one thing I have way too much to lose. I do everything by the book.”

Which seems to make this whole story moot……………..

Why would replacing one employee with another cause this guy to go belly up????

Come on Jay, please explain…….or is this just fear mongering from your ’side”?

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Kids used to get their first jobs as mowing yards, washing dishes in restaurants, etc. Not any more.

If the existence of this guy’s restaurant is dependent on paying slave wages, perhaps he needs to look at his business model.

Democrats again wanting to have an underclass, making less than White people. It’s disgusting.

Wake up dims. Its 2011. Let citizens earn a decent wage. If they are educated and can speak English better then the owner of the restaurant, TAKE THE FRIGGIN TEST AND BECOME A CITIZEN.

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Some Yawnplenty news.

Seems he wiped a child molestor’s record clean.

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.misc/browse_thread/thread/1d06d897de22b6d7

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AmVet

So now it’s all about the poor business owner5.

You guys change your stance on business like you change your Depends.

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“But policywise, the key to illegal immigration has always been jobs. Illegal immigrants are drawn to this country to work, and any serious effort to address the problem at its source must include an effort to stop employers from hiring them.” Jay Bookman 2/1/11
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2011/02/01/ga-leaders-not-serious-about-addressing-illegal-immigration/

Jay – You did explain that to your new friend, right?

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“And say what you will about Carlos Santana’s statement a few days back, but he is dead-on right about one thing. “I would invite all Latin people to do nothing for about two weeks so you can see who really, really is running the economy,” Santana said. “Who cleans the sheets? Who cleans the toilets? Who babysits?”

Which is another head scratcher………so, the folks that want to come here legally wouldn’t do the same jobs??

Does having a green card automatically make them ineligible??

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Common Sense

May 24th, 2011
9:18 am

Great post. Great points. Unfortunately, you are talking to the deaf and dumb.

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“I would invite all Latin people to do nothing for about two weeks so you can see who really, really is running the economy,” Santana said. “Who cleans the sheets? Who cleans the toilets? Who babysits?

To Santana- kiss my arse for blatantly suggesting the great American work ethic is gone. You folks like Amvet need to sign off your computers and go meet a veteran in a wheel chair or an autistic adult who simply wants to work.

Incredibly embarrasing and insulting.

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Good Little Liberal,

George Bush is the culprit for the three minimum wage increases that began as the employment in this nation peaked.

Coincidence? No.

http://www.nolanchart.com/article5985_Have_We_Forgotten_the_Minimum_Wage.html

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So Jay – if following the health codes and OSHA requirements would make this restaurant unprofitable would it be OK to ignore those rules?

Is the owner also ignoring overtime rules? Where do you draw the line as to where you can break the rules?

Also – if this restaurant goes out of business the net effect will be zero. It is not like people will stop eating…especially in Atlanta.

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“Yeah this guy’s just a crazy lib… or you just don’t know ANYTHING about starting and running a small business…”

I know a great deal about running a small business, and have yet to see one single person explain why this law will cause this guy to suddenly go belly up………where is the cost shift/burden?

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Illegal is illegal is illegal.

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Pdawg: You’ve been here for as long as I have, Debbi. I’m not going to go back through Jay’s archives for you.

Reiterating your position doesn’t require you to go back through archives. It just requires courage.

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If I may suggest an alternative route of discussion on this, in particular regarding this quote.

“Have you seen what’s going on in Mexico these days?”

There is no doubt Mexico is an unholy mess these days due to the drug cartels. Anyone with any semblance of compassion wouldn’t want to send someone back there. That said, I think it is ok to consider giving most of the illegal immigrants that are here permanent work visas in conjunction with a payment of penalty (not onerous). However, I don’t think it is fair to permit people who are breaking the law out of the gate (either due to their parents actions or their own) to get in line for citizenship.

Obviously this carries the risk of creating “a permanent underclass” of people with work visas but not citizenship. And I don’t like this either. So I put it to the “blog”, how do you have compassion for people who want to work hard, bring them into the workplace system legally, but without trampling on the rights of those who earned their citizenship the hard way (or from being in the lucky sperm club), while also not creating a permanent “underclass” of sorts?

For the record, I’m not absolutely certain of the “underclass” issue, but it is a risk.

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Aquagirl

I have run a business since 1991 and my son mowed yards and delivered papers.

So please explain why you want a slave underclass in this country.

Did you support the raising of the minimum when when the Dims took over Congress?

But now you say that it destroys businesses. MAKE UP YOUR MIND. You guys are destroying my country!!

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“I know a great deal about running a small business, and have yet to see one single person explain why this law will cause this guy to suddenly go belly up………where is the cost shift/burden?”

He is already going belly up. He just refuses to acknowledge it.

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JAy

If legal wages are being paid, perhaps hiring AMERICANS would be a better idea.

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“My original post said it you questioned the restaurant owner’s credibility.” – No you’re original post was to someone else. But, instead of admitting you misquoted me and moving on…you tried to question me on things I never said.

Now, if you would like to direct a question to me on something *I* said, please go right ahead.

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“Try running a business with employees who are chronically late, curse out their employer, or simply fail to show up. Yeah, that’ll work.”

Hmmm…….Mickey D’s has been working within that parameter for eons…….and still making tons of money…………..

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Jerome: To Santana- kiss my arse for blatantly suggesting the great American work ethic is gone.

Jerome’s in the house!! I said Jerome’s in the house!!

PS: I couldn’t resist. You have to be the only person I’ve ever “talked” to named Jerome!!

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“What’s next, feeling sorry for a child molester, rapist, murderer?”

no, they just give them oscars.

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I hope this restaurant owner gets shut down. He’s is a first class jerk and a slave master. Not only shut down, but ass in prison.

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The bank probably didn’t know he was hiring illegal aliens either. Him borrowing the money was a choice he made, and he should have realized that times change, as well as policies, and laws change as well, so he should have thought a little into the future as well. It is not just a one way street where all of the blame falls on the politicians, but this guy should have taken every aspect into account before he “borrowed the money”. If he wants to break the law and put his family at risk even more, then go ahead, and if he doesn’t and wants to do it right, go hire legal citizens that are willing to accept minimum wage to work. Sounds like a pretty simple fix to me. Love how you try and discredit the Immigration Law there Bookman by getting the opinion of a law breaker that admits he will break the law. I guess you Liberals will always have a soft heart for law breakers. What’s next, feeling sorry for a child molester, rapist, murderer?

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Businessman: I don’t hire illegals but if this new law passes that will prevent me from hiring illegals, it will put me out of business.

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GLL–I don’t want a slave underclass, I think we should–gasp–let those people work legally.

Good for your son. You let him spend his formative years undermining America by delivering left wing liberal newspapers?

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Hey, the business owner will be able to hire unemployed American citizens. This is great news. And if he continues to employ illegals, throw him in prison for a couple of years.

Cut off the money, and the illegals will self-deport. Go after the businesses that hire them.

Do I get to choose what laws I want to follow like the illegals?

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JAY, perhaps you can ask Mighty Righty why he juxtapositioned your sentence regarding “death threats” with my “not buying any bridges”? Point being? See below.
————————————————————————————————————

May 24th, 2011
9:43 am
Mary Elizabeth

May 24th, 2011
9:22 am
Two lines in the article stand out to me:

(1) “Some restaurant owners who publicly opposed this bill have received death threats, leading me to want to stay below the radar.”

Mary, don’t buy any bridges.

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GLL: “Liberals see an issue. they have no clue as to the actual problem. they just see another way to demonize Republicans.”

Again, from this statement it seems you’re equating “liberal” with anyone who takes a critical view of GOP policies.

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Oh GLL, Liberals don’t help people, they just whine how the government should do their dirty work for them. Help an illegal? Oh no, the government shoudld do that! Help an unemployed work find a job? Oh no, it’s the governments job. Provide shelter and housing for the poor? Oh hell no. We should tax people who make money more and have the government to provide housing.
Ever seen a liberal charity organization? I haven’t.

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“The Southern Republican Run States are full of legislators that want all THOSE people gone”

Personally…I don’t think they do. They just want a certain segment of the voters to THINK they do.

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While it is certainly true that many of the illegal aliens have been in this country for some time, working hard and trying to be a respectable part of the community. But the fact remains that they are constantly violating any number of laws and an amnesty for illegal aliens implicitly forgives these violations. If I violated the same laws, I’d be fined thousands of dollars and put into prison for several years. But many people (and politicians) seem to want to grant them eventual citizenship and all the benefits thereof instead.

First they knowingly and with forethought violate any of several immigration laws when they enter this country: they come without visas, they do not come through a legal port-of-entry, they bypass customs, they are not registered and fingerprinted as required by Title 8 of Code of Federal Regulations (8 CFR). That is, there is little or no presumption of lawful admission as required by 8 CFR.

Once they are here, they are likely to continue to violate other laws. Fraudulent papers are used to obtain work. This may include Social Security numbers and related documentation, falsified work visas, and so on. In this case, it seems that Title 18 Section 1028 “Fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents, authentication features, and information” should come into play.

If they bypass the fraudulent paperwork and simply work for cash “under-the-table” they are certainly involved in some level of tax evasion. In this country, even people who earn income by illegal means are required by the Internal Revenue Code to report this income when filing annual tax returns. But they usually don’t claim this income, let alone file the required return, because doing so would serve as an admission of guilt. They are also more likely to be working at less than the minimum wage, facilitating their employer’s choice to bypass Title 29 Section 206 “Minimum wage” as well as requirements to withhold and pay their portions of the FICA and Medicare payroll taxes [conspiracy to commit, on both the illegal immigrant and the employer; perhaps RICO could even be applied to the employers].

An aside here: often the claim is made that “They do jobs Americans won’t do” when the reality is “They do jobs that Americans won’t do at those wages.” Thousands of employers are also violating our laws, notably Title 8 Section 1324a “Unlawful employment of aliens”, by hiring illegal aliens and by paying them under-the-table to avoid our laws about minimum wage, overtime, workers’ compensation, unemployment compensation, family leave, Americans with disabilities and so on. These employers must also be stopped and prosecuted.

When illegal aliens drive a car, they are doing so without a valid license and probably without insurance (a requirement in most states). It is not uncommon for many unrelated illegal aliens to share a single house or apartment, in violation of local codes.

The list of violations could go on and on.

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jt: You probably already know this considering all of the bars that you stay in.(doing interveiws and stuff).

you’re a hoot!! I can’t understand why no one else gets you……….I guess your jokes are just too esoteric for them. History professor huh? Viva History!!!

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Adam,

Last time I checked, all of those people had the same opportunity to become citizens and accepted in the country like all of the others. Why is it all of our fault? Should we have to pay the taxes to support these people? Should they get paid under the table and not pay into our school systems, healthcare, or tax system? All of which they take advantage of. So don’t sit there and call it a witch hunt against the poor illegals trying to stay under the radar.

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Themistocles (a.k.a. Left Wing Mgmt)

I don’t support slave labor. That’s what Democrats called the old minimum wages laws.

Democrats are destroying my country. A little political speech and they are in the streets ready to riot and here we are three years after the largest increase in minimum wage in history talking about how impossible it is to run a business under those laws.

DUH!!!!!!

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Mary Elizabeth

May 24th, 2011
9:53 am
Mighty Righty @ 9:43

Explain yourself, please.

Mary, you were quick to believe the worst with out any evidence but his word. The article is full of unbelieveable statements which makes the entire story suspect. You however, accepted a wild accusation as truth. Thus my cynical use of an adage aimed at one being gullible. You can decide if the remark is humorous or mean, your choice. All I did was turn over the rock.

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also jt josef nix would REALLY like you, he’s a school teacher who has a phenomenal mental database on historic events. he posts here regularly but only in the afternoon when he gets out of school.

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Heathen — “The very first sentence on the e-verify website (http://www.uscis.gov) states:

“U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization.”

Sounds like Mr. Small Businessman hasn’t been trying too hard to follow all the laws.”

That is EXACTLY what I thought when I read this. The guy’s “millions” of dollars in debt, but his business model relies on him being able to break or skirt the law? Well, he could realize even more profits by just falsifying his taxes, too, so why not do that as well?

Look, I’m sympathetic to a small businessman who’s trying to make it, and I’m sympathetic to illegosos, too (my wife is Hispanic, the born-here variety). But if your entire business model RELIES on violating the law by using cheap labor that keeps its mouth shut, then I’m sorry — you just didn’t think things through very far before you started your business and went into debt. Should we feel as sorry for a drug dealer who relies on his profits to keep a roof over his head? Or a mafioso who shakes down businessmen or runs hookers in order to bring in an income?

I don’t want this guy to go bankrupt, but his entire business model RELIES on being able to break the law, and he knew that when he got in. I can’t feel sorry for him.

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DebbieDoRight

May 24th, 2011
9:47 am

jt are you secretly Redneck Convert or Whacks Eloquent in disguise? There was this other guy who used to be on here a lot, Political Uprising or something like that…..his blog name had sexual innuedo in it. Anyway he / she was a hoot too!

I don’t know about that innuedo or such but my name is Jumping Turtle.(jt)
Cooter is another name for turtle………..around here.
.
I have jumped a cooter or two.

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If this restaurant owner is in “millions of dollars” of debt, then the banker knew nothing about the restaurant business. A single restaurant will never make enough money to pay back “millions of dollars”. Something is phony about this story.

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Peadawg

We can’t keep this up forever, I’ve an appointment in 45 minutes.

But as far as your earlier, I didn’t admit I made a mistake? You saw this:

[["Sorry. That was poison pen who questioned Jay’s credibility.

You questioned the restaurant owner’s credibility.

So here’s the do-over.

““Do you know anyone out of work?” – Nope.”

And you say the restaurant owner has a credibility problem over the believability of his statements?!!?]]

So which of those three posts at 7:59. 8:13 and 9:05 by “Peadawg” about the restaurant owner are “things (you) never said”?

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“But many people (and politicians) seem to want to grant them eventual citizenship and all the benefits thereof instead.”

Which happens to be the bigger picture problem………….granting amnesty (such as we did under Reagan) without sealing our borders, only causes the abuse of the system to increase……….

Does anyone here think we would be having this discussion if we had sealed the border and enforced the law after the first amnesty??

Shoot no……..instead, some advocate for doing the exact same thing……..which will lead to more chaos down the road………

When the precedent is repeatedly set that the US does nothing to those that violate the immigration law, those wanting to come in will multiply exponentially…………..and those waiting to do it legally will feel betrayed…………

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Mick

Condescending?

I watch the buckets of manure that liberals eat up like steak whenever any piece of garbage legislator comes up with yet another reason to hate Republicans.

You HAD to have the massive increase in minimum wage and now you are claiming that in order for American business to succeed, we can’t obey those laws and have to hire people under the table.

You are KILLING us. Now we have this clown in the White House that is encouraging Islamic radicals to take over North Africa while insisting on the Palestinian total takeover of a huge part of an established Israel. Our economy stinks and now Jay tells this fantasy story about a restaurant owner that is in debt millions and only through ignoring laws that YOUR PARTY PUSHED THROUGH can he survive.

Our country is in serious trouble, Pal. If condescension because of the crap that you support is your only problem, congratulations.

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Must be El Azteca….. my wife love’s their food…..

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GLL, actually I teach ESL on a volunteer basis. I’m not fond of the press 1 for English thing either, and I’m willing to do something about it. Unlike the shrieking GO HOME crowd.

How ’bout you, pat? What do you do besides sit on your gender-ambiguous bum and make assumptions?

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Oh, yes. The other issue with hiring teens is that they can’t understand why an employer won’t allow them to constantly text while waiting on tables, mowing yards and washing dogs.

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The real truth here is “accountability”. Our Politicians, Government, and State have not been held accountable for their actions and in-actions far too long. Just look at our borders. This situation causes people to not want to obey the law on the local levels. It’s hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube once it is out. The U.S. is at a breaking point, otherwise we are slowly deteroriating into a bigger mess with nothing being done toward correction.

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I just saw the video of Rep. Rob Woodall’s town hall….OMG…those people cheered him..? They do realize they are paying for his and his family’s health care for the rest of their lives….? And he wants to eliminate their health care…? OMG…You people down there are dumber than I thought…and I set the bar pretty low after Sonny Perdue and Nathan Deal…..!!!!

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“You put the help wanted sign in the window and the only folks that stick around and work are the illegal immigrants once they see what the work is even though it pays above minimum wage.”

What a bogus excuse………….there are hundreds of companies with the same problem that have never used illegals to fill positions……..been doing it forever……..

Just more pick and choose excuse making………..

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It’s really great how all of you liberals favor laws protecting unskilled illegal immigrant labor, while 30% of Black and White laborers that you pretend to care about are unable to feed their families because the illegals you favor are taking jobs at below market rates. How can you look in the mirror and see a caring person. I am in favor of legal immigration so long as Americans don’t lose their jobs becuae of it. According to Bookman’s interview, the Georgia law will result in helping American laborers find work by forcing some illegals to other states. That’s great news!

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Mighty Righty @ 10:14

I believe that the restaurant owner’s peers received death threats. You are certainly free not to believe that his words were true, if you wish.

However, you made no reference to my comments following that sentence from the article which I quoted – just that sentence regarding death threats – which was blatantly positioned in your post to me.

I knew that you could have meant humor regarding naivete, but I do not know you except through your moniker. Your political positions are certainly more popular than mine are – in this “neck of the woods.” So, perhaps, you can understand why I don’t particularly care for such a blatant statement regarding death threats near my name – joke or otherwise. Why bother to post such as that at all?

However, Mighty Righty, I want you to know that I do appreciate your response to me. I believe you and I take you at your word. Thanks.

I

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Mighty Righty

“Poor Paul, just won’t believe me because I am a Republican. Would one of you Democrats please explain to Paul that Repubicans had nothing to do with Obamacare.”

Actually, this is kind of funny. I just asked ‘care to guess who killed a provision allowing undocumented workers to buy insurance on the exchange?” and you immediately thought it was an attack on Republicans.

Why so knee-jerk defensive?

If you’d bothered to do a bit of research, you might have found:

“Neither the House bill nor Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee bill restricts illegal immigrants from being eligible to purchase coverage through a health insurance “exchange” or gateway set up in the legislation. However, the House bill explicitly states that undocumented immigrants would not be eligible to receive government subsidies to buy insurance, regardless of income. The Senate Committee Bill is much tougher and bars illegal immigrants from purchasing health insurance through the exchange.

Baucus’ proposal also includes verification requirements to ensure that illegal immigrants are blocked from receiving federal subsidies or entering the exchange — an effort to quell Republican concerns that loopholes would allow illegal immigrants to benefit from receiving health insurance at a reduced rate. ”

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/October/23/illegal-immigrants-health-explainer.aspx

out for a bit -

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“Restaurants did just fine BEFORE ”

But there weren’t as many…..and Americans didn’t eat out as much, and were therefore less obese, and healthier…..

….okay, so, our obesity problems is because of illegal immigrants!!!!!!!!!!!! Get the torches and pitchforks!!!!

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Restaurant owner losing business? two words- happy hour

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What a bogus excuse………….there are hundreds of companies with the same problem that have never used illegals to fill positions……..been doing it forever……..

It’s just reality md. You may choose to accept it as such or not. Then again, I think you have made your choice quite clear.

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We didn’t lose the construction industry. Home ownership was oversold and housing capacity overbuilt.

The people making money off of illegals needs to be brought in check. Pass 87, enforce it, and welcome the new way. There are plenty of US citizens that need work. Two birds, one stone.

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Pony up the tax money to solve the problem or just shut up. Solved the problem.

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shawny 10:48 – is there a restaurant bubble???? Oh dear.

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Two words.

Crider Georgia.

The local poultry processing plant had fired most of the African-Americans who work there and replaced them with lower wage illegals. When ICE raided the plant and deported them the local African-American community were rehired and wages increased by $2.00 to $4.00 per hour over what had been paid the illegals.

The company did not go out of business, the world did not end and no bleeding-heart liberal was injured.

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Enter your comments here

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It is a huge regulation for business.

Make up your minds about no regulations cons.

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another opinion

Thanks for shedding some light, hats off to you…

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Jay — “Joe Mama, the restaurant owner submits the required I-9 forms to federal authorities. It is the feds, not the business owner, who do the validation check. If and when the business is notified that the SSI number and name do not match, the business is then required to take action by seeking clarification from the employee. However, it often takes a year or more for such mismatches to be noticed by the feds, and once the employer is notified and then the employee is notified, the employee often just moves on to the next job.”

That agrees somewhat with my wife’s experience, and she does employer I-9 verifications as part of her job. Allow me to share some details.

There’s a preliminary check that can be performed by the employer to see if the prospective employee’s SS card is even *valid* at all. My wife does occasionally encounter an invalid number this way. Anyone who’s sporting an invalid card can’t legally be employed. She also occasionally sees people with valid SS cards that are prominently stamped NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT, but who expect to be able to get a job with them. Those folks don’t get a job, either.

If the card comes back valid from the instant check, it still has to be verified as you describe above, but my understanding is that it takes nowhere near as long for mismatch verifications to come back as you’ve been told. My wife tells me that it takes a few weeks, sometimes as long as 3-4 months, for mismatches to come back.

Mismatches don’t always indicate that an illegoso is trying to pull a fast one; my wife saw a *gender* mismatch once that caused the SS number to be flagged (the male employee involved was VERY upset when he found out that SSA considered him to be female). In another case, several siblings all applied for a job at the same store, and their *sequential* SSNs caused them all to be flagged (I know that’s possible, because my brother’s SS# only varies from mine by the last digit).

But in all cases, when a mismatch comes back, my wife calls the employee and their manager (her company is nationwide) and directs them to clock the employee out (if they’re hourly), send them home and not to let them come back to work unless and until they provide Federally-acceptable documentation to resolve the flag. In about 80+ percent of cases, the individual sent home simply never returns to work, much as you describe.

“However, the restaurant owner told me that he has noticed a recent increase in the pace of I-9 mismatch letters he is receiving from the feds.”

My wife’s employer has been audited twice in the last 2-3 years by ICE. They have really stepped up enforcement, which is why I’d caution that restaurant owner to cover his butt if he doesn’t want a bunch of Federal fines staring him in the face. My wife suspects that there’s a certain percentage of mismatches to matches that will trigger a visit from ICE auditors — e.g. if you have 10% mismatches out of the SSNs you submit, then you get audited — but the ICE guys won’t answer questions about that, even if she asks them to their faces.

If he’s got a good percentage of mismatches, I think he’s setting himself up for an eventual reckoning with the feds on this.

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However, it often takes a year or more for such mismatches to be noticed by the feds

Speedy Gonzales, they ain’t.

Which one of jay’s left-wingers namejacked Peadawg at Kyle’s? You oughta be ashamed of yourself.

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My son graduated from a very expensive culinary school here in Atlanta. It cost MORE than a 4 yr. college education. The average pay for kitchen work is $11.00 an hour. Often for less than 40 hrs a week. You tell me how that is fair. IF he can get a job because the kitchen help, being illegal and all that entails, will work for much less.
Maybe the guy you interviewed paid on the books but I don’t think that is the standard. Find some 2009 graduates of AIA or Cordon Bleu and interview them about what is happening in the kitchens of GA. There are a ton of educated citizens working in the kitchens for substandard pay with no hope of ever making a decent living because of undocumented workers. The guy you interviewed didn’t say he had a hard time finding workers he said he didn’t want to pay them more. It also sounds like there are several cases of identity theft if they are paying into SS.

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USMC — “I noticed that they changed over their staff from ILLEGAL ALIENS back to Americans and Cactus is doing just fine.”

Just out of curiosity, how do you know that they were employing illegosos? Or are you just guessing/presuming?

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stands for decibels

May 24th, 2011
10:36 am

If you don’t understand that every job an illegal takes is one job not available to an American, then you will not be able to understand the answer.

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“Just out of curiosity, how do you know that they were employing illegosos? Or are you just guessing/presuming?”–Joe Mama

Porque, yo hablo poquito espanol y yo pregunto mucho gente que trabajen a los Cactus Car Wash; verdad.

Ellos hablan SI!

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I feel for the restaurant owner and the employees. For clarification, is his concern that the non-immigrant pool of workers is too small to fill the void if his current workers are deported? Or does it have to do with the quality of other workers or their willingness to work for comparable wages?

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Now that those higher paying jobs are no longer available there are people just standing in line to work those minimum wage jobs that illegal immigrants were willing to take. So, the obvious fix is to get rid of the illegal immigrants now that they are taking the jobs that others need and maybe there will be a place for them again once higher paying jobs come back.

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Um, Jay. RE 1967 / Israel. Reid and Obama apparently not on the same page, or Reid is playing politics again.

-
The most powerful Democrat in Congress, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), on Monday night publicly rejected President Barack Obama’s decision to use a recent speech to lay out aspects of a potential peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians.

“The place where negotiating will happen must be at the negotiating table – and nowhere else,” Reid declared in a speech to an annual gathering in Washington of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). “Those negotiations … will not happen – and their terms will not be set – through speeches, or in the streets, or in the media.”

When the Senate leader added, “No one should set premature parameters about borders, about building, or about anything else,” the lights quickly came up on the vast audience and most in the crowd at the Washington Convention Center rose to their feet and applauded.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55560.html#ixzz1NHea96GV

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Netanyahu beginning his address to Congress now

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thomas,

Answer the question con.

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There may be plenty of Americans that need work but that doesn’t mean that they are physically capable of performing the job. My county government replaced all of their hispanic road maintenance crew with good ole boys. I watched one obese good ole boy sitting on a guard rail, weed whacker in hand having some obvious physical distress. Look at the fat slobs that park in handicapped spots so they don’t have to walk 50 yards into the WalMart.

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What part of illegal doesn’t everyoine understand? I have no problem with anyone coming to the USA to better their life if they do it the right way. The bs of this restruant going under because he will lose his workers says that many people should have seen that there was a possobility that he was using undocumanted workers and that they should have stopped eating at their meals from him.

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Mighty @ 11.16, thanks for confirming that you couldn’t back up your BS.

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getalife

May 24th, 2011
11:26 am

Sorry not a con? Atleast not by the vague definition given by others on here.

What is your definition of a con?

I understand that a certain level of regulation is required to prevent abuses.

I know that doesn’t fit into your cookie cutter mold you have for everyone to fit in, but its reality.

Sohave you understood that this is not about regulation? It is about LAWS!

Why are you against the enforcement of laws? You do understand this is a law matter, not a regulation one?

Call the DNC and they will give you the revised talking points.

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Pretty sure if that was the CEO of a large publically traded corporation, Jay and other libs would be calling for his arrest for admitting he hires illegals.

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Prediction: Obama is going to get crushed in 2012. Hard to know for sure. But a variety of items indicate this will be the case.

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cry that illegals should be allowed into the country

shouldn’t you have at least one (1) example of someone here, anyone here, actually advocating for illegal entry into this country, when you post such a thing?

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USMC — “Porque, yo hablo poquito espanol y yo pregunto mucho gente que trabajen a los Cactus Car Wash; verdad.”

So you asked them and they told you?

One wonders why you didn’t patronize a different car wash. You know, maybe one with American employees.

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They need a quota figure on how many illegals are given annual passes to work here so they can fill in on the jobs no everyday American in his/her right mind would consider doing. The employer would have to apply for the help – describe how many and why asnd they would have to pay the taxes on each dollar paid to the workers.

That way, you would know exactly who had workers and could more readily check the books if the taxes paid don’t seem realistic.

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If I recall, part of the Regan amnesty was a promise that the country wouldn’t make the same mistake again. Here we are again thanks to our political class of both parties.

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Dan: See I bet you’ve never given 5 minute’s time to reflecting on what a “lib” is. But I have.

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Republicans (cons) voluntarily give away more of their personal income to charity

this again?

GOPers are somewhat more likely to belong to churches that either require or strongly encourage massive club membership fees (aka, “titheing.”) In Uncle Sam’s eyes, of course, this charitable contribution has the same weight as some Godless Librul contributing directly to (say) Doctors without Borders.

If such things make you feel morally superior, fine. Forgive me if I’m not terribly impressed, myself.

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The restaurant owner is a self-admitted liar. He says, he’s “always played it by the book.” Not true by his own admission as he knows his kitchen staff are illegal and it has been the law for decades that you have to prove citizenship or legal residence to work here. He has colluded in identity theft by his own admission, accepting fake social security numbers from his employees. Without people like him, deluding themselves that that they are “law-abiding” there would be no immigration problem. Were every restaurant complying with the law, the playing field would be level and Americans would have those jobs.
Canada knows. I was denied entry to Canada because I had no work permit allowing me to be there for a two-day job for the corporation I work for. Yet Canadian employees of the same company have no problem coming here for work-related tasks.

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this is one of the more stunningly dense “observations” I have ever read here – “…two bit, has been guitar player…”

without looking it up, I suspect that “has-been” Carlos probably earns more per gig than most here do per month (and several, possibly, per year.)

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So you’re part of the problem. You want the illegals here when it servers you best…

That is hardly what I said.

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No sympathy whatsoever for the restaurant owner. Is he so stupid that he thinks his business is the only one that might have to raise wages? No — they all will, so it’s still going to be an equal playing field when it comes to labor costs. Granted, he may have to raise prices on the menu to compensate, but so will everyone else he’s competing with.

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Ok, I’m a liberal but also a middle class worker. I say these laws are good but only if they go after the businesses and individuals who hire them – otherwise, you are just persecuting a group of people who really want to work and are willing to work their tails off.

While the price of produce and eating out will more than likely go up, so should wages in the lower spectrum.

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Joe Mama, as k and you shall receive.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

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Jay
“But they pay sales taxes, property taxes, unemployment taxes, and they’re paying a lot of money into Social Security that they’re never going to get back.”

This is something anti-illegal bigots don’tknow about,or do they?

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Mike — “Joe Mama, as k and you shall receive.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html”

Nope. I don’t think you read this before you posted it. There’s absolutely nowhere in there that breaks down where these supposed charitable donations are going.

Now, if someone could link to one of the actual *studies* themselves, wherein their terms are operationalized and they present definitions of what constitutes a “charity” for purposes of the study, I’d be real interested in that. But frankly, I strongly suspect that “charity,” for the purposes of these studies, equals ’something you can write off on your taxes,’ not necessarily something that actually helps those in need.

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From that realclearpolitics article: “A society that has more justice is a society that needs less charity.” ~Ralph Nader

Preach it Ralph. And keep on speaking truth to power. You have done more to help the working American family than all of these politicians put together…

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Who cares what george will says, what do you do in terms of charity?

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Pretty good speech by Netanyahu so far. Wonder how the pundits will spin it so we can fight about it and call names?

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Netanyahu smacks down Obama to standing ovations 56 times by Democrats as well as Republicans.

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never been to a church that requires membership fees sorry.

requires? of course not. Strongly suggests? Now that’s another story.

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Bibi is your man? Move to israel and see if you like it….

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So I see the responses to my post by people who disagree were:

1) “You’re racist for pointing out racist elements!”
and 2) People who didn’t read the part of the article about how the people being targeted are actually paying taxes and into systems that they will never be able to use.

Well done, folks.

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jm is so ideologically inconsistent, that it makes a caught fish on a boat deck look like a model of decisiveness. It is just a bunch of crap

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Midori’s 12:20 – “not an actual rebuttal”

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Who did those jobs before foriegners who dont speak our language and are in our country ILLEGALY did them ?
I would like to apply at this establishment. I will work for what is given to ILLEGALS and when I am there on time every day giving 110 % who will this rat cry to then ?
Its not the money ! Americans WILL do these jobs !! Again, who did them before ? Its the power these rats hold on scared little cowards who fled their cess-pool existence so they can benefit from the sacrifice so many gave the ultimate for. Americans WILL do these jobs… but we wont do them being treated like second class criminals which is what these invaders are.
Bring it on business owners ! I will match work ethics with anyone and I will honor our customers and create return customers while speaking english and enjoying the benefits our culture has bestowed on us ! Will you let me do it without treating me like a slave and a second class citizen ? If you will where is the problem ? The problem is in your own ego and your un-patriotic greed !
The business owner in this piece is nothing but a rat who would rather pay an ILLEGAL what an American would work for just to placate his big-shot ego and his total lack of decency !

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Really? That’s a common excuse?

Sure. The ruling class overlords take them away, you see…

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It was against the law then and it’s against the law now. The state is only enforcing the federal law that the feds will not enforce. The fact that all or most authorities have looked the other way for many years does not excuse illegal behavior, whether you are the person who isn’t supposed to be living here and benefitting from a citizen’s rights or the employer who decided to hire someone who he isn’t supposed to hire in the first place. I have no sympathy. Had you done it right the first time, you would not be in the fix you are in. So typical, to blame someone else. I don’t CARE if your precious employee knows anything about Mexico or not. His parents KNOW they are illegal, know HE is illegal, and yet chose to stay, breaking the law. Let’s hold THEM accountable, not the lawmakers who are simply enforcing existing law. We have really turned things around. For the interviewed restaurant owner, you’ll lose your entire kitchen staff because you shouldn’t have hired them in the first place; and you can replace them with legal citizens. For Mr. Bookman, go take your song and dance somewhere else.

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Well, Jay you go back and tell that restaurant owner he now feels what we moonshiners felt. It was legal to make moonshine then it was illegal then it was legal and finally it was illegal again. With government getting in the way how can man provide for his family. Of course the illegal aliens were mostly from Irish decent but that was quickly bred out of them. I guess the man has learned not base a business on CHEAP labor.

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It’s clear. Netanyahu rejects Obama’s Israeli Palistinian policy to cheering Democrats.

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No, it’s not a common excuse. I should have said it was the most memorable excuse.

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The guy was trying to use the plural form of tests. He thought that testes was plural for tests.

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And it blows for those kids, stands.

Even though I’m a lifelong NYY fan, if I were King, I guarantee you those kids would have that place back.

So I hate it with a capital H, but you know the old, sacred adage in this country – money talks and you know what walks.

And a whole boatload of us are walking…

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I had to go to the hospital for some testes.

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Wasn’t the left ranting not too long ago how businesses aren’t held accountable for hiring illegals? They’re the ones getting fat profits off cheap labor, right? That it’s the illegals that are the victims here?

Sounds like the guy running this restaurant can’t even cheat the system right. Someone from the left give him a call.

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What a shocker!

American militarists cheering on Israeli militarists.

Who would have believed it…

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If Rudy G runs, its going to be very annoying. The guy can’t and won’t win, so he’s just wasting everyone’s time.

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This problem won’t go away until we stop propping up the “less fortunate” who refuse to do the work these illegals are doing and expect them to show up for work 5 days/week. The part of this story Jay either heard and didn’t print or the man didn’t tell him is he’s choosing that illegal kid over the “less fortuate” because he shows up for work and does a good job and if he had to rely on the “less fortuate”, his business would suffer. They aren’t worth the hassle and he’d rather take his chances getting caught with the illegals. Tell me if I’m wrong Jay. Did he tell you that?

The worthless “less fortunate” class brought to you by crying jag liberals who have never met a person responsible for their own actions!!!

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Paul

I can just see that now. Frankentesticles.

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Jay,

It’s not just three subjects here. It’s four: illegal immigration, businesses, the state law, the federal government.

First, if the federal government would take seriously border enforcement, the rest of these issues, including the path to citizenship would be academic issues, not real ones.

You’re right in that we have businesses that want and perhaps need Mexican workers to do certain jobs at low cost. What we have also is a certain left-wing liberal political party that wants to coral as many nascent, legal voters as it can. We have another right-sided party that wants to offend as few Mexicans as it can.

Without a strong President who provides leadership on this issue (such a person, by definition would be the anti-Obama), I see no solution. We can not continue a lax border enforcement along with a national effort to legalize illegals with an act of Congress. Such amnesty is simply unacceptable to every country in the world. It is analogous exactly to the Palestinian right of return. Let’s call it instead the right of Mexicans to just live here.

Like Israel, we either have sovereignty or we don’t.

It is unfortunate that businesses and workers are being caught in the middle of all this, but neither federal government, nor illegal immigrants themselves are being straight with us. To accept as legal, someone whose first act in coming here was to break the law is simply crazy and entirely unAmerican.

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“AIPAC is heavily Dem”

And why would that matter to me?

I indicted militarism, and like countless other topics, the difference between the Tweedledeers and the Tweedledummers is microscopic.

One of the great tragedies of today is that so many Americans refuse to see and acknowledge this essential non-difference…

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Sorry, but I fail to see this guy’s point. If he had not ILLEGALLY HIRED his kitchen staff to begin with he would not be in his current predicament. I guess the only way he can remain open is to avoid paying payroll taxes on his kitchen staff while paying them sub-standard wgaes as well. There are ways to keep these people working, apply for work permits. Nobody is against immigration, this is a country of immigrants; but is it so hard to ask that you come to this country LEGALLY, after all we are also a nation of LAWS. This restaraunt owner needs to do what it takes to make his people legal, or hire somebody else. Of course if he hires a LEGAL immigarnt or a US CITIZEN he has to pay taxes on that employee as well.

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Well if the illegals are forced to leave then this restaurant owner would be forced to do what they used to do 20 years ago before illegals came- hire Americans. If Georgia still has unemployment just under 10% then it seems to me that he’s got a ready pool of Georgians that he can hire. People always say these jobs won’t get done without illegals doing them. My question is if that’s true then who used to do all the restaurant jobs, construction jobs, and hospitality jobs before the illegals came? That’s right- blue collar white and black Americans who’ve seen their wages- particularly in construction- pushed downward through competition with illegal labor.

When I was 16 I worked in a restaurant washing dishes and my co workers were all black and white teenagers or black and white men and women in their early 20s working at a restaurant while they either went through college or working there after college while looking for a job in their chosen field. Americans will still work those jobs. Agricultural jobs such as picking crops are about the only jobs I’ve seen that Americans don’t want and even then I could be very wrong on that point.

And btw I’ve no problem with immigration. Let them come. But have an American first job policy- there is no reason for us to have 10% unemployment among Georgians while employers hire illegals at lower wages. And in regards to the illegals just document all of them, make them pay a surcharge on their paychecks to offset their costs to our social services systems, judicial system, education system, and health care system to offset their enormous costs. And deport the ones that are criminals.

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LOL,

you are exactly right…i feel no sympathy for this restaraunt owner, he knowingly broke the law hiring illegal immigrants and now is upset that these laws will be enforced

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It is ironic that the same folks that want unions busted, regulations relaxed, and corporate taxes lowered all in the name of helping business are adamantly against allowing business owners to hire the best person for the job.

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The Whigs Experience Buyer’s Remorse

“The buzz all over the radio world today is the newly published, highly accurate Arbitron ratings on radio station listenership. Rush Limbaugh’s ratings have fallen sharply in recent months. Limbaugh’s audience has dropped by 33 percent since October. And he’s not the only one–Sean Hannity’s ratings have also slipped by 28 percent.”

Ahhh, heheh, the Olds showed up with their hoverounds and poorly spelled signs. Now they’ve learned the joke, or the con if you will, was on them.

My 1 yr old, 15 years from now – “Daddy, what was a Republican?”

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buck@gon –
1 – Current administration has done lots to secure the borders including more hiring and national guards. Perhaps you should research this fact first instead of listening to GOP talking heads.

2- Come off it – you really think that Democrats want to give amnesty to 12millon people just because they think they will all vote for Democrats? If you looked a little harder you might see that Mexicans value structures more closly relate to that of the GOP. (ok, I admit to stereotype a bit there, but generally it is true)

3 – Yes, it is all Obamas fault. We never had this problem before… yeah, right.

4 – Poor business, they are just caught in the middle… another yeah, right for ya…

Now for my thoughts – the problem is not going away, nor is it feasible to round up and deport 12 million people. The only logically solution is to provide some type of path toward citizenship.

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Adam and stands for decibels,

It didn’t all start right at 20 years ago. But the bottom line is that in the last 2-3 decades that illegal immigration has significantly ramped up. Do you deny this obvious fact of life?

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Mr. Doom — “what they used to do 20 years ago before illegals came”

You can’t possibly be for real.

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LOL

“. If he had not ILLEGALLY HIRED his kitchen staff to begin with”

Do you know something that contradicts what Jay wrote? What did the restaurant owner do that violated the law?

(I’ll save you some time. He did not violate the law).

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Jay, the GOP in GA is just plain hateful. A big bunch of bullying haters. They hate on immigrants, on gay people, on poor people, and especially poor people who’re not descendants of the poor people of northern Europe!

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LOL

And upwards of fifteen bucks an hour is ’substandard wages’?!!?

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Themistocles “Really? You don’t think Mitt has a prayer?”

Jay had a Mitt column a couple weeks ago. Mitt can’t win because Obamacare mirrors Romneycare, and Mitt was defending Romneycare.
In Summary: Mitt was telling the truth about what it means to support people through healthcare, but it doesn’t sell to the far right, so he’ll lose.

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Hi Goldie!

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This video in this link shows exactly how w governed for eight long years.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/A-J-Pierzynski-chases-foul-ball-meets-George-W?urn=mlb-wp7540

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Paul: “(I’ll save you some time. He did not violate the law).”

Then what did his staff put on the I-9? (The Federal Form all employees must fill out when hired)
The I-9 is used for Federal purposes of verifying work eligibility.

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So, who’s going to apply for all those restaurant, landscaping and hotel jobs that will become available once the GOP haters have their way??? I think that’s what this restaurant owner’s fear is about: not being able to find the workers he’ll need to keep his business afloat.

I know personally that the guy who helps me sometimes with my yard work says he can’t find enough so-called “legal” workers to help him with his business right now… not enough people even answer his help wanted ads he puts in the paper right now!

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if i spot someone breaking the law, who can i call?

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Have Republicans Lost Their Minds
http://www.slate.com/id/2295128/

Pretty funny…and sad.

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Doom: I certainly remember when construction workers were all white….

Ah yes…the good ole days……….I bet you miss those huh?

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“…the bulk of the giving is through churches, which are more efficient at aiding the needy.”

I’d love to see some facts to support that claim, Mike. Do you have any?

But I suspect that getting real figures regarding it would be easier through the mafia…

All I could find was this: “the Mormon Church spends less than $10 per year per member on direct charity. ($1 billion for 5,000,000 members over 20 years, at about $6 billion in tithes a year, NOT counting other funds which they keep separate)”

That is less than 1%.

Time to review that 1894 law regarding these requirements that exempt them from business taxes, wouldn’t you say?

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Jay,

I just looked up the cost of starting a restaurant from the ground up and it was 200k. Now obviously it can cost much more or less- google it yourself. But for the guy to say he went millions of dollars in debt? Come on now. How many restaurants did he open? 20? I’m not buying it.

Many of us know people who’ve opened restaurants and bars and the cost even for a few restaurants is not millions of dollars. And just about everyone who knows a restaurateur knows that most of them if they have multiple restaurants its usually 2-3 restaurants. If you open too many of them you spread yourself thin obviously and your restaurants can end up cannibalizing sales.

On top of that the restaurant failure rate is very high- if I remember correctly I think the odds of a particular restaurant succeeding after 1 year is something like 50%, after 10 years its something like 10%, etc. I don’t remember the exact numbers but its an extraordinarily high failure rate.

I find it difficult to believe a bank would loan millions of dollars for multiple restaurants given the historically high failure rates. And this in the middle of a tough 3 year economic climate? Something bout this story aint right.

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Logical Dude

“Paul: “(I’ll save you some time. He did not violate the law).”

Then what did his staff put on the I-9? (The Federal Form all employees must fill out when hired)
The I-9 is used for Federal purposes of verifying work eligibility”

I take it you’re answering for LOL?

So your position is, in reference to LOL’s assertion regarding the owner “If he had not ILLEGALLY HIRED his kitchen staff” – that the owner committed a crime because someone falsified documentation?

“The I-9 is used for Federal purposes of verifying work eligibility.”

Jay made that point some pages back.

It’s all very logical.

So, how is it the restaurant owner illegally hired staff?

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The REAL issue should be the FACT that businesses are PAID to export the economy, and the FED keeps printing more and more money each year. The value of our dollar weakens by the day, The Fed is getting kicked out of different countries after trying to buy out whole industries with our money without ever repaying this country back (and that amount is tacked onto what we owe), and the People suffer because middlemen are leeching more and more money through various laws that protect this activity while outlawing direct sales in some industries. Our “social service” economy of bloated CPS departments are now being used to “enforce” unwritten rules that medical providers force upon us, such as forcing parents with medical mistakes on hand to sign off liability or face the forced take-away of the children. Our insurance industries are REQUIRING us to pay for their profits – first with car insurance, now with ObamaCare. Home Insurance companies grade your house and one negative report stemming from a house you USED to live in, AFTER you’ve moved out, can ding your record and send your insurance rates skyrocketing.

America, it’s time to STAND UP AGAINST the Corporatist classes and take your country BACK.

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” Conspiracy thinking is flourishing on the right like no time since the McCarthy era. The GOP rank and file is in desperate need of a cold shower, a slap in the face, a wake-up call. But instead of telling the base to get a grip on reality, the party’s leaders are chasing after the delusional mob.”

McCool @ 1:19 — great column in Slate. And to answer the headline question: YES they have!

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Mexican food, I think, is my favorite of all foods these days.

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From Finn’s link:

The other, the Republicans, has moved to a mental Shangri-La, where unwanted problems (climate change, the need to pay the costs of running the government) can be wished away, prejudice trumps fact (Obama might just be Kenyan-born or a Muslim), expertise is evidence of error, and reality itself comes to be regarded as some kind of elitist plot.

Classic!

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“great column in Slate.”

There’s your sign . . .

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Wordpress error: “You are posting comments too quickly. Slow down.”
Darn it, I was just gonna post that I was posting more than usual and did NOT get this error. . .
Alas, I guess I”m posting too quickly!

Jay, This column feels like a heavily edited extract of the conversation.

It leaves us several questions:
What current wages is he paying?
Has he hired ANY documented workers? If so, what percentage of his staff?
Are documented workers paid the same as undocumented workers?
How do his staff fill out the I-9 forms?
How would HE solve the problem of illegal immigration?

What else was left out of the conversation?

I agree with much of what he says, and would definitely grant amnesty to anyone who was a minor when their parents brought them to this country. (they didn’t have a choice in the matter) But as an employer, if he’s not paying wages that keep up with the economy, then he is part of the problem. (you know, worker exploitation)

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Logical Dude: “Jay had a Mitt column a couple weeks ago. Mitt can’t win because Obamacare mirrors Romneycare, and Mitt was defending Romneycare. In Summary: Mitt was telling the truth about what it means to support people through healthcare, but it doesn’t sell to the far right, so he’ll lose.”

Yeah I remember the column. I tend to agree his chances are slim. However, the fact remains that Tim Pawlenty is probably an even weaker candidate that John McCain. So I’d tend to agree with Matt Dowd that we’re likely to see a surprise entry or two to mix things up in the weeks to come. I seriously doubt the GOP brass will stand by without trying to take action given just how extraordinarily bad this field is. I mean, having a somewhat ho hum field of candidates is one thing, but not this bunch of duds.

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This law, like the others in states like Arizona, is a security blanket for some insecure, small- minded, bigots, most of whom are white. The biggest “crime” of these immigrants is not being white or English-speaking. These people [bigots] are delusional if they believe this law, and others like it, will stem the tide which has always been a part of this nation’s history

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Finn McCool

May 24th, 2011
1:22 pm

Georgia and federal law prevents the granting of food stamps to those unable to prove their citizenship or legal status.

Oh the facts, they burn. They burns us, My Precious.

Finn McCool,

Yes. And there is no fraud in the food stamp program just as there is no fraud in medicare, medicaid, there is no employment fraud either with illegals providing fraudulent SS cards, fraudulent birth certificates, etc. No identity fraud either. Either you’re working on your comedy routine or you live in that lib fantasy land where you also have chocolate unicorns. Which is it Finn?

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Thulsa: Do you deny this obvious fact of life?

Yes, I do. (See link for why you’re wrong)

ty webb: I just find it funny that you call republican southern states “racist” for adopting laws aimed at reducing the number of illegals(”those people”), yet you don’t call president obama racist for policies and practices that do the same(increasing deportation, increasing border patrol agents). Why the inconsistency?

First of all, you are missing my point if you thinkt he entire thing was about racism. It’s about THOSE people, gays and women and so on too, anyone who is somehow undesireable, be it because of racism, religious views, and other differences. The viewpoint of LEGISLATORS in these states is what I am focused on. Many pf which probably don’t have the views of their constituency, and probably follow the Paul Ryan viewpoint of “leadership is changing everyone else’s mind.”

Secondly, it’s not inconsistent. Border patrols, first of all, are intended to not let people in illegally, which is fine as long as it’s not through killing or maiming. The target of this bill is to make something illegal that wasn’t illegal before. There’s no “we’re just enforcing the federal law” here. And it unfairly affects businesses who are above board, and anyone currently aiming for citizenship that is just in the endless queue. And so on and so on. The bill doesn’t address the actual problem.

Finally, it’s also not inconsistent because, as I said, I’m sorry you think I agree with everything Obama does just because I disagree with many conservative policies.

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