Where illegal immigration, business and the law collide
“Look, I’m not a criminal. I don’t go around breaking the law, because for one thing I have way too much to lose. I do everything by the book. But if this law goes into effect, I’m telling you I’m not going to follow it. I’m just not. Because I can’t.”
I was sitting at a restaurant bar, talking to its owner about the potential impact of House Bill 87, the illegal immigration bill. He had contacted me, asking if I wanted to hear “the economic perspective of a small business owner,” with the understanding that he would remain anonymous.
“Some restaurant owners who publicly opposed this bill have received death threats, leading me to want to stay below the radar,” he explained in the email. On that basis, we agreed to meet.
If the law survives legal challenge and goes into effect, the owner said, he would face two choices: He could obey the law, lose a very big chunk of his ktichen staff and be forced out of business; or he could evade the law and save his business.
“I’ve got my future and my family’s future tied up in this,” he said, looking around at the bustling restaurant. “We’re doing good right now, but I’m in debt millions of dollars. And when I made that decision (to borrow the money), I didn’t have any idea that they’d be passing a law like this. My bank didn’t have any idea they’d be passing a law like this.”
“I don’t get it. They talk about jobs jobs jobs. The only two industries generating revenue and jobs for Georgia are hospitality and agriculture. And this is going to ruin them both. And it’s not just my kitchen staff who will lose their jobs. All of my front-of-the house workers [bartenders, waiters, hostesses], they’ll be out of work too. We’ve already lost the construction industry, and now we’re going to lose these too. Nobody I know is considering opening another restaurant in this state.”
In fact, if the construction industry was still booming as it was a few years ago, he said, there’s no way the Legislature would have passed HB 87. Back then, too many politically connected people were making too much money off illegal workers. And the hospitality and agriculture industries just don’t have the clout that developers once wielded.
Right now, he said, he does everything he can to abide by the law. He doesn’t pay anybody off the books, which means that everybody on his staff is paying taxes. “This claim that they don’t pay taxes — I don’t get that,” he says. “Yeah, they may not pay a lot in income taxes, but nobody else in those jobs does either [because they don't make a lot of money]. But they pay sales taxes, property taxes, unemployment taxes, and they’re paying a lot of money into Social Security that they’re never going to get back.”
“See that guy right there,” he said, nodding his head toward a nearby waiter. “He’s been in this country since he was five, when his parents brought him here. He graduated from high school here, and he probably speaks better English than I do. He doesn’t know a damn thing about Mexico. And they want to send him back? Back to what? Have you seen what’s going on in Mexico these days?”
“I’m trying to grow my business; I’m trying to help my people grow and build good lives. I don’t think the politicians know what they’re doing. I just don’t think they’ve thought this through.”
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
780 comments Add your comment
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
2:56 pm
“You need to sit down and talk to any number of people who live in my neck of the woods.”
And mine too.
I graduated from HS in 1972. While awaiting going to boot camp on my Delayed Enlisted Program, I spent the summer in Denver, Colorado. I lived with my cousin who got me a job along side him laying sod for new houses. Backbreaking, very dirty work from before sunup to past sundown.
Not surprisingly, a great deal of the laborers were Latinos. Legal or not, I have no earthly idea. But having not just fallen off of a turnip truck, I suspected some (most?) of these guys were illegosos.
All I know is that they threw an occasional outstanding party at some big old house in Denver. And I learned some very valuable lessons from those guys. One being they DO NOT screw around when it comes to asskickingly hot food!
Man, did those boys laugh at this gringo!
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 24th, 2011
2:58 pm
Well, all this guy’s got to do is raise his menu prices by 200 or 300%. People that don’t eat at places like Ryans don’t mind shelling out 200 or 300 bucks for a meal. Same goes for paying for groceries. Just raise the prices and hire legal labor.
Besides, there’s lots of good rednecks that would take those restaurant jobs. Of course, we’d need to get paid 30 bucks an hour and get plenty of breaks and lots of sick days off for when we’ve had a little too much booze the night before. I got no pity for this restaurant owner. He’s breaking the law and to prison he will go when he gets caught. And we’ll catch him. We’re real big on Law and Order.
Like I always say, have pickup, will haul. Just give us rednecks a little gas money and we can run a regular shuttle to the jails to pick up the illegals and dump them across the border. Men, women, kids—I don’t care how old they are. They’re breaking the law and they need to be tossed.
That’s my opinion and it’s very true. Have a good p.m. everybody.
TruthBe
May 24th, 2011
2:59 pm
First of all where is the concern for the legal immigrants that did it right and obeyed the immigration laws? Employers can still hire low paying wage earners that have legal right to work papers under House Bill 87. The Restaurant Owner is breaking the law and is one of the main reason that we have these illegal immigration problems in American. Of course Mexico and much of the other Latino Countries are at fault for treating their own Citizens so badly. Obama and the Corrupt Democrats dont give a darn about these people they just want their votes if they make them legal period. Obama equals what have you done for me today. Politicans only care about themselves and what we the people can do for them including illegal immigrants for cheap labor to care for them.
thomas
May 24th, 2011
3:00 pm
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
2:46 pm
no doubt to that.
Seems everything with a history of good also has a history of bad.
My opinion it is usually the fault of individuals, not of the organization.
Although the organizations have at times been responsible for its coverup or out right abuses.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 24th, 2011
3:04 pm
TruthBe
The two people I know personally, who are most adamant in their objection to illegal immigration are both legal immigrants.
TruthBe
May 24th, 2011
3:04 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe, Good! I agree with them. Thank You
Jay
May 24th, 2011
3:05 pm
I don’t have a personal response, Thulsa. But I imagine that the restaurant owner might point out that the skill set and work ethic needed to operate in a fast-paced high-end restaurant differ significantly from those required to fill a box of fries and stuff it in a bag.
But then, I can’t speak for him, since I didn’t ask him that question.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 24th, 2011
3:05 pm
Joe Mama
We don’t have “cinder blocks” in our world. And I wouldn’t drink a Co-Cola if you paid me. The stuff is great for cutting grease off a windshield but if it gets on the paint, it’ll eat it right off. A man’d be a fool to put that in his gut.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
3:06 pm
How does one tell a mere Hillbilly from a Hillbilly Deluxe?
Simple. The Hillbilly Deluxe has *two* cars up on cinderblocks in his yard. And prob’ly a Coke machine out on the porch.
reebok
May 24th, 2011
3:07 pm
Business owners are not going to obey the new immigration laws because to do so will make their businesses unsustainable. There is a higher law, and that includes providing for yourself and your family. The whole “let’s pretend to get tough on illegals” is pure politics anyway, pandering to the base.
Dave R.
May 24th, 2011
3:10 pm
“Business owners are not going to obey the new immigration laws because to do so will make their businesses unsustainable. There is a higher law, and that includes providing for yourself and your family.”
Oh, I see, reebok. We can now pick and choose those laws we disagree with, simply because it affects our family?
Do you know the term for that, reebok?
It’s called anarchy.
Even I, most likely the premier small-government advocate on this blog, do not believe in anarchy.
jm
May 24th, 2011
3:13 pm
Jay 3:05 – and I would argue that he is still arbitraging the legal/illegal labor market.
If his argument is: I can’t hire this quality of labor in the market at the same price, then in theory, when these people become legal, they will ask for more as well.
The reality is, he can hire just as good quality labor in the legal market at the same price and he’s just feeding you his opinion which is not in any way correlated with reality.
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2011
3:14 pm
And if you’re 20 something years old, living in Atlanta, and you can’t understand a word of the English that the cashier is speaking to you then its a fair bet you didn’t grow up in Atlanta or in U.S. schools which as you can imagine teach English.
That doesn’t always signify that someone’s here illegally. I’ve run into many US citizens, from different parts of the world, who move here and don’t speak a word of English, yet they enter the US with a bona fide US passport.
jm
May 24th, 2011
3:15 pm
Caylee Anthony is at the top of Google’s news stories (presumably based on a news search algorithm).
Really? That’s the best we can do?
@@
May 24th, 2011
3:15 pm
Netanyahu is so hot…that’s H-O-T…HOT, HOT, HOT!!!!
I had to go to the hospital for some testes!!??!!
Damn metrosexuals!!!!
and they’re paying a lot of money into Social Security that they’re never going to get back.
Aren’t we all.
Jay
May 24th, 2011
3:15 pm
jm, there’s probably some truth to that. That’s why I advocate some form of amnesty, to rationalize all this.
USMC
May 24th, 2011
3:16 pm
This buffoon of a President really lacks the kind of intelligence it takes to lead the Free world:
Obama signs Westminister Abbey guestbook, dates it May 24, 2008?
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/05/president_obama_has_no_idea_wh.html
Unbelievable!
jm
May 24th, 2011
3:17 pm
SoCo! Question for you. If you’re an employer and you suspect someone is engaging in identity fraud to get a job, presumably you can’t fire that person. But are you required, as an employer, to report it?
Ex: A guy with a name like Vladimir Putin that looks like he’s possibly from Central America and speaks Spanish instead of Russian. Oh, and he’s looking for a cooking job but his mailing address is something like Northwest Buckhead with million-dollar mansions.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 24th, 2011
3:18 pm
But I imagine that the restaurant owner might point out that the skill set and work ethic needed to operate in a fast-paced high-end restaurant differ significantly from those required to fill a box of fries and stuff it in a bag.
In that case, the owner might sound a tad bit elitist.
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
3:18 pm
Joe Mama,
Ya know what Joe? I’ve never seen a bear poop in the woods. Don’t know anyone personally who has ever witnessed such an event either. But call it intuition, common sense, or whatever but I’m certain it happens. Do you dispute that this event also happens and on a regular, ongoing basis?
Back to your question though. Whenever I was in the grocery store and I saw several people around us who couldn’t speak a lick of English how do I know how many, if any of them are illegal? Answer- I don’t for absolute certainty without taking a poll but I would be very surprised if I was wrong. Why? Its an educated guess based upon hard data and just plain common sense given that we have a significant illegal alien population in Atlanta. Now can I tell you exactly how many of them are illegal? Nope. Just a guess that at least some of them and possibly a majority of them are.
But one reason you can make that as a reasonable assertion is that I’ve seen lots of illegal alien parents whose kids in grade school, in their teens, and early 20s speak perfectly good English. Have you not noticed this? If not then you sure don’t get out much. Its a reasonable judgement that many of these kids are either Americans or entered this country at a very early age. That is called a reasonable assumption.
The people that are in their 20s, 30s, that can’t speak a lick of English? I’ll ask you this. How is it that they can grow up as U.S. citizens in U.S. schools where English is taught and in their 20s or 30s still not speak any English at all? How is that Joe? I really, really want to see your common sense answer on this. I can guarantee you that if I grew up in Spain to English speaking American parents that I would be speaking either fluent Spanish or at the very least conversational Spanish.
In my estimation if you’re 20 or 30 years old and you can’t speak a lick of English than there is a pretty good chance you may be here illegally. Either that or you are an incredibly lazy arse person who never took the time or initiative to learn the language of the country you were freaking born in. Which is it Joe? Get back to me on this one, single point genius. And keep it to this one point or your answer will be considered non-responsive.
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2011
3:20 pm
jm
I don’t know of a “requirement” to report it, but ICE has a tip line that anyone can call if they suspect anything in relation to that going on. It doesn’t have to be the owner/manager calling either. Either that, or one can always contact the local authorities for identity theft issues.
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
3:20 pm
Doom: Americans could and would work if they had to take a low paying job while looking for a better paying job in their chosen field. But why should they with what we have set up? If you can make the same amount of money or almost the same sitting on your duff collecting unemployment rather than swallowing your pride and taking an $8/hr job in a restaurant then the inevitable result is what we have. Near 10% unemployment and the idea- partly true- that Americans won’t work these jobs. Take away their unemployment after 99 weeks or much sooner and they will.
Lies. In Georgia the most you can get in unemployment is $330/week. Even if you were laid off and made $50K a year, that’s the most you can get. How are you “making the same amount of money or almost the same” by taking an $8/hour job.
Also, on your application, if you put down that your previous job was as “Executive Assistant” and your previous pay was $50K per hour, how many resteraunts and bars are going to hire you, honestly? They’re going to think that once you find a job in your field, that you’re going to up and quit first chance you get. And they’d probably be right!
Doom, (to take a quote from you, paraphrased), perhaps you don’t understand simple mathematics, however there are courses at KSU and Atlanta Tech that can help you.
jm
May 24th, 2011
3:20 pm
Jay 3:15 – I’d go for permanent work visas (pus fine) over “path to citizenship”. I just think its grossly unfair to the people who’ve dealt with the torturous process to get here. Not to mention it legitimizes going the illegal route.
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
3:20 pm
that should be $50K/year.
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2011
3:21 pm
@@
Damn metrosexuals!!!!
Just don’t play the video again. Pleeeeeeeaaaaaaassssssssseeee!!!!!!!!!!
(IW&SH)
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
3:22 pm
Good column, Jay, and the perspective I’ve been preaching all along. The fall out has just started. There are those who say that with the Georgia law, they’ll take the Helen Thomas advice and go back where they came from. No, they won’t. They’ll go to a more hospitable state here in the good old USA, especially those who came here as children and know no other country. Those states will be the ones to benefit as their hospitality and agricultural sectors profit from the lower wages and Georgia goes into eclipse since no convention is going to come to where the cost of catering to it is higher than some other place with just as much, if not more, to offer. Georgia’s peaches and onions are going to be uncompetitive on the market, provided they can be gotten to that market. And chicken? Carpet? Just wait…be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. And the pressure will be such that we’ll see a roll back of this insanity. Of course, by then tens of thousands of lives will be uprooted and the nice docile brown folks will not be in any mood to be kissing up to the not so nice black and white ones…
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
3:22 pm
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2011
3:14 pm
And if you’re 20 something years old, living in Atlanta, and you can’t understand a word of the English that the cashier is speaking to you then its a fair bet you didn’t grow up in Atlanta or in U.S. schools which as you can imagine teach English.
That doesn’t always signify that someone’s here illegally. I’ve run into many US citizens, from different parts of the world, who move here and don’t speak a word of English, yet they enter the US with a bona fide US passport.
SoCo,
That’s true and so have I. But generally speaking if you are in a heavily Hispanic neighborhood grocery store and nobody in the store can speak a word of English then common sense factor has to kick in. Are they all here on passports as tourists? Um. No. I seriously doubt it. I’m not talking about the exceptions to the rule. I’m talking generally speaking.
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
3:23 pm
Oh, and he’s looking for a cooking job but his mailing address is something like Northwest Buckhead with million-dollar mansions.
Undercover Boss – CBS on Sundays
jm
May 24th, 2011
3:23 pm
DDR 3:23 –
great show.
Adam
May 24th, 2011
3:25 pm
Thulsa: Is there something especially difficult that you, like Joe mama, have trouble comprehending about this?
Actually you answered just the way I would expect someone who makes broad EMOTIONAL assumptions and then later attempts to back them up with logical arguments would.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
3:25 pm
Mr. Doom — “Get back to me on this one, single point genius.”
Can you not keep more than a single point in your head at a time, Doom?
“And keep it to this one point or your answer will be considered non-responsive.”
For someone who craps and moans about posts at you being too long, you certainly are a windbag today, cowboy.
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2011
3:26 pm
DDR
Been there & done that with the unemployment. Took me 6 months to get one job offer, and I was only making $40k in retail and was looking for anything. I took the first offer which was $7.50/hr.
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
3:27 pm
Thulsa
Speak English, eh? Why not let’s institute the Reconstruction education program in the South with those pesky French. Make it illegal to speak the language on the street. Close all press in the language. Close all entertainment establishments (theatre, cabaret, etc) using the language. Then, if the little b*ggers still insist, beat it out of them…
Yeah, ici on parle anglais…seulement anglais…
And yeah, they went “back where they came from…” France got the creme de la creme and from them gave the world the literary school of negritude…
Been there, seen it and bought the t-shirt. It’s not pretty…
Mississippi Red
May 24th, 2011
3:27 pm
Which is it Joe? Get back to me on this one, single point genius. And keep it to this one point or your answer will be considered non-responsive.
In other words, “I have A.D.D., dyslexia, gout and stomach cramps (Diarrhea), and can’t do two things at once. If I try, i crap all over myself.”
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 24th, 2011
3:28 pm
Undercover Boss – CBS on Sundays
I’ve never watched that show, so I don’t know the ins and outs of it but if your new helper at work showed up with a camera crew, wouldn’t you be a tad bit suspicious?
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
3:28 pm
yea i LOVE that show!! Most of the bosses can’t even do the jobs of any of their employees!
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
3:29 pm
Debbiedoright at 3:30pm,
I see you’re still having reading comprehension as well as math issues.
Lies. In Georgia the most you can get in unemployment is $330/week. Even if you were laid off and made $50K a year, that’s the most you can get. How are you “making the same amount of money or almost the same” by taking an $8/hour job. – Debbiedo
Debbie please reread the post since your comprehension skills are failing. I’ve known several people who drew unemployment and on average were drawing $250-$300 per week- not much. The point of what I said if you were able to read and comprehend is that that they would rather take that unemployment than work say an $8/hr job at $320 a week before taxes to get roughly the same money. They are disincentivized to work. When I wrote they would be making the same or almost the same I was comparing the unemployment benefits with working an $8/hr job.
Debbiedoright= READING COMPREHENSION FAIL.
Doggone/GA
May 24th, 2011
3:30 pm
” guy with a name like Vladimir Putin that looks like he’s possibly from Central America and speaks Spanish instead of Russian”
Gotta be careful with the criteria though. After all, Peru had a president whose name was Alberto Fujimori, who was quite noticeably Oriental in appearance, but I should imagine he spoke Spanish pretty well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Fujimori
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2011
3:31 pm
Doom
I’ve come across green card holders who have been here since Reagan granted amnesty that don’t speak English. They’re not generally the younger ones, but I’ve had a few, both citizens and foreigners, who tried to play dumb like they didn’t speak English. Most of the time, it’s a defense mechanism against “outsiders” or authority figures. Other times, it’s fear that makes them do that. I understand what you’re saying, but I wouldn’t use that as a litmus test for legal/illegal status.
jm
May 24th, 2011
3:31 pm
DDR 3:28 – yes, I guess that part is entertaining. But on the bright side, they gain a new appreciation for the work done by their employees as well as thinking at the ground level about how to improve their company.
The guys that sign up for this thing are already probably pretty good people. But I think its a terrific show for people (and management) to watch.
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
3:32 pm
Never seen Undercover Boss, but I loved Undercover Brother!
http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2002_Undercover_Brother/2002_undercover_brother_001.jpg
“A man’d be a fool to put that in his gut.”
Right on! And I thought I was all alone on this “How the hell did these sickeningly sweet, with the nasty, astringent after-taste soft drinks become popular?” planet!
Woo Hoo!
Not trying to be nosy here, but Joe Mama has made me a tad curious. What exactly IS the difference?
Fred
May 24th, 2011
3:32 pm
Jay
May 24th, 2011
3:05 pm
I don’t have a personal response, Thulsa. But I imagine that the restaurant owner might point out that the skill set and work ethic needed to operate in a fast-paced high-end restaurant differ significantly from those required to fill a box of fries and stuff it in a bag.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Actually Jay, it’s not much different. And the pay’s not much different either. There just isn’t money for cooks, whether they are “illegal” or legal. Cooking has always been and always WILL BE a low paid job that takes hard work.
The way it works for your buddies place is that there is ONE high paid guy who is the “chef.” He makes up the recipes. Everyone else just follows them by rote. Don’t kid yourself. The problem isn’t the “skill set” it’s the amount people want to pay for food.
People won’t eat at a place that charges 10 bucks for breakfast, but it costs as much to make breakfast as it does lunch. More actually because 75% of breakfast has to be made to order.
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
3:33 pm
Doggone
Fujimora speaks the native language fluently…. Quechua!
USMC
May 24th, 2011
3:33 pm
“How do his staff fill out the I-9 forms? They fill them out like anybody does, by writing in SSI numbers and everything else. If they know Carlos Gonzalez is legal and has a valid SSI number, they become Carlos Gonzalez and use his number. If a father has a young son born in this country, he will name the son after himself and acquire a valid number and card. Or they just make up names and SSI numbers, knowing that it will take a while for the feds to discover the mismatch and when the feds do, they can just move onto the next employer and false ID.”–JAY BOOKMAN
That is called FRAUD, JAY and you endorse it!
“He advocates a path to citizenship.”–JAY BOOKMAN
There is a PATHWAY to citizenship; just follow the LAW like everyone else.
My girlfriend just became a citizen two months ago; SHE DID IT THE LEGAL WAY!
Yes, she had to “jump through hoops” but EVERY country should and does require people to FOLLOW THE LAW.
Quit treating Mexicans and Hispanics as “LOWER FORMS OF LIFE”.
They are as or more intelligent than you and me. NARCISSISM and a sense of entitlement have created this idea “I WANT IT NOW; MY WAY”
Jay Bookman, you are on the CORRUPT side of this issue!
(seems like a pattern with you)
Fred
May 24th, 2011
3:33 pm
Thulsa @ 3:18. I don’t know what the basis of the argument is, but you make a very valid point in your 3:18.
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
3:35 pm
Josef Nix,
Not saying no one should speak Spanish. Heck I enjoy speaking Spanish as do you since its a 2nd language to both of us. I like practicing it with Spanish speakers. I’m simply saying that in general its hard to believe that if you have a whole group of people that can’t speak a single word of English that its a reasonable assumption that some of them are probably here illegally. That’s all.
But some of the hyper sensitive politically correct folks on here somehow think that that is an unreasonable assumption here in Atlanta where we have a sizeable illegal population. Next they are going to say that there are no illegal aliens at all along Buford Highway.
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
3:35 pm
SoCo: Been there & done that with the unemployment. Took me 6 months to get one job offer, and I was only making $40k in retail and was looking for anything.
I feel ya. My sis-in-law went back into the workplace after being out for 4 years (we used to flip houses — me part time, her full time); and when she went back she couldnt’ find anything comparable to what she used to make before she left, she ended up teaching at KSU to get by. She ended up LIKING teaching too! She still does it part time. Go figure…..
Doom: When I wrote they would be making the same or almost the same I was comparing the unemployment benefits with working an $8/hr job.
Yeah….sure you were, winky, winky wink!
Debbiedoright= READING COMPREHENSION FAIL.
Doom = How’s the diarrhea? I recommend Pepto.
jm: The guys that sign up for this thing are already probably pretty good people. But I think its a terrific show for people (and management) to watch.
Yeah and they’re usually great people to begin with anyway. You know what show they should have? A show where the guys who ran their companies into the ground (like that guy from Enron or the guy from Home Depot or Fiornia), they have to go back to Business School and wear “Dunce” hats and kick me signs! I’d watch!
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2011
3:36 pm
Doggone
Peru and Brazil has a rather large “Asian” native born population. Makes it hard to try to guess nationalities before seeing documentation.
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
3:36 pm
Fred,
All I did was make a statement that in some areas of town we even have illegals buying groceries using Georgia food stamps and I based that assertion on my observation in a couple of grocery stores that none of the people could speak or understand any English whatsoever. Its my simple contention that some of them are probably illegal aliens and now everyone is raising hell about how judgemental a comment that was. Good grief. Its as if some of them don’t believe we have any illegals here- in spite of the fact that Jay’s article today is on illegal workers in the restaurant industry here in ATL. The irony of it all.
deegee
May 24th, 2011
3:37 pm
For those of you that pine for the good old days of the 1980s, please remember that the baby boomers were entering the workforce en masse in the 1980s. There was plenty of young, strong, cheap labor back then. What happened, you ask? The baby boomers finished their educations, started their families a little later than their parents, and they had fewer children. Add to the mix a couple of economic bubbles in the 90s and the 00s and you have a demand for immigrant labor. The US did not create a path for unskilled and semi-skilled immigrants to come to the US and legally work permanent positions. The visas for unskilled/semi-skilled are for temporary workers.
Now the baby boomers are retiring, their children are educated and uninterested in taking unskilled jobs and their grandchildren are too spoiled to do the work. But that doesn’t stop the baby boomers from screaming “AMNESTY!” whenever someone makes a reasonable proposal to solve the problem of illegal immigration.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 24th, 2011
3:39 pm
Waffle House cooks make pretty good money. They have a different business model than the industry norm, though.
AmVet
There is no difference really. My screen name is just a play on words. It’s a hat-tip to my Hillbilly roots (which I take great pride in, which probably comes as a shock to nobody) and the Deluxe part is just a play on words, using the title of a song, that I really don’t even like. I’ve always thought it sounded a tad uppity anyway, maybe I’ll just change it to Hillbilly. (Unless I can come up with something as inspired as Brocephus. I think that belongs in the Blogname Hall of Fame).
Fred
May 24th, 2011
3:39 pm
I’m just curious. There’s what? 12 million illegals at the upper end of the estimate scale in the US? We have a population of 312 as of the last estimate I read. That’s what, 3.8%? SO if we ship every last one of them out of here things are suddenly gonna get better?
I don’t believe it.
Brosephus
May 24th, 2011
3:41 pm
(Unless I can come up with something as inspired as Brocephus. I think that belongs in the Blogname Hall of Fame).
Credit RW for that one. He led me to the path, and I merely stepped into the shoes.
Mighy Righty
May 24th, 2011
3:42 pm
Joesef nix
Boycotts never seem to work. People like to talk about them, but like economic sanctions, they just don’t work The below is an example of the boycott of Arizona. Copy from Arizona Chamber of Commerce. Yhis years numbers aren’t in yet, but I’ll wager there won’t be any impact this year either.
Opponents of Arizona’s anti-illegal alien law huffed and puffed and threatened to use the power of a boycott to put the state out of business.
Back to the drawing board, boys, because your boycott is a flop. Bookings of Arizona hotels across the state are actually up since the controversial law was passed.
Well, that was a waste of a good sheet, wasn’t it?
Fox News reports the details:
“Fundamentally, the boycotts have been unsuccessful,” said Barry Broome, president of the Greater Phoenix Economic Council.
The data from hotel industry research firm STR showed that for the state of Arizona, hotel occupancy was up 5.7 percent in May and up 8.3 percent in June compared with the same time a year ago.
In Phoenix, occupancy was up 10.6 percent in June; in Scottsdale, it was up 10.7 percent for the same period. Revenue also was up, with Arizona hotels raking in $148 million last month — up more than 11 percent from a year ago.
Broome said the state also has been able to attract new businesses to locate in Arizona despite bad publicity. He said his group plans to announce 2,000 to 3,000 new jobs thanks to investment from California, where Arizona boycotts are in place in several major cities, over the next few months.
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
3:42 pm
Thulsa
Actually Spanish is not my second language…nor is it my first…and believe it or not, there are a lot of those pesky French still around whose families have been here since the early 1700s who still don’t speak English very well…and English is taught as a second language in the Choctaw schools and I’ve know Choctaw who “won’t” (not necessarily “don’t”) speak a word of English…
You are taking a very narrow minded view and as one who appreciates “foreign” languages, bear in mind that for millions, it is not “foreign” but has been spoken here in North America since day one…
jm
May 24th, 2011
3:43 pm
USMC
“Jay Bookman, you are on the CORRUPT side of this issue!”
Well, there is the issue of tens of millions of available Democrat votes if they can keep selling the “we’re helping hispanics and you owe us for your path to citizenship”, and the audience buys it….
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
3:44 pm
Never seen Undercover Boss, but I loved Undercover Brother!
Right On!! I liked the part of Sister Girl……she was my favorite!
GT
May 24th, 2011
3:46 pm
Man you might as well told them who the restaurant was you describe it so well. One of the reason it is so popular is people are having fun and don’t have time for all this hate business.
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
3:46 pm
Doom = How’s the diarrhea? I recommend Pepto. – Debbiedoright
Debbiedo,
Is that all you got? I’m disappointed. I expected more and better ammo from you. You can do better deb.
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
3:47 pm
Mighty Righty
I wasn’t speaking of boycotts…hell, when the NAACP was calling to ban the Cross of St Andrew and boycotting where it was flown at their New Orleans Convention, the Mississippi Coast Casinos had one of their best weeks on record as busloads bucked the boycott long enough to come spend their money across the street from Beauvoir! Made it kinda hard to take them seriously…
Brosephus
May 24th, 2011
3:48 pm
Ok, who got a post yanked? Count was 660, but when I refreshed it was 659…
jm
May 24th, 2011
3:48 pm
DDR
“like that guy from Enron” well, one of ‘ems dead. The other’s son committed suicide. And then Fastow is due to be released someday soon.
I hear you, but I’ve got a better idea. Manual labor for the rest of their life. With an annual “public shaming” event (no tomato throwing, just putting them on public display in downtown Houston or NY once a year). They’ll get plenty of boos.
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
3:49 pm
Hillbilly: Undercover Boss – CBS on Sundays
I’ve never watched that show, so I don’t know the ins and outs of it but if your new helper at work showed up with a camera crew, wouldn’t you be a tad bit suspicious?
In this world of “Reality TV?” I doubt it!
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 24th, 2011
3:49 pm
Credit RW for that one. He led me to the path, and I merely stepped into the shoes.
But you had to have the feet to fill them.
Right On!! I liked the part of Sister Girl……she was my favorite!
Didn’t that have Dave Chappelle as Conspiracy Brother?
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
3:50 pm
josef nix,
Sorry I was thinking Spanish was your 2nd. I don’t believe I’m taking a very narrow view. I know lots of people- green card holders, Cubans, Iranian friends, etc. who are more comfortable in their native language. No problem there. What I said was in the framework of generally speaking. And no matter what anybody says if you are in a store where there are many Hispanics in their 20s and 30s who can’t speak a word of English to the English speaking cashiers I’m simply stating that its a reasonable assumption that some of them are illegal aliens. That is not an unreasonable assumption. That’s all.
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
3:52 pm
I’ve always thought it sounded a tad uppity anyway
Put me down as one who never, ever thought such a thing.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
3:52 pm
Doom — “I’m simply saying that in general its hard to believe that if you have a whole group of people that can’t speak a single word of English that its a reasonable assumption that some of them are probably here illegally. That’s all.”
You are assuming that none of them CAN speak a word of English without any evidence to support that. I know from personal experience that some groups of people, when among close friends, family members and associates, *prefer* to speak a language that’s part of their shared cultural heritage. And that has NO bearing whatsoever on whether or not any of those people CAN speak English or not.
If you think that people speaking funny languages among themselves is evidence of possible illegoso activity, then you’d have pooped your pants at my grandfather’s wake 15 years ago. I heard four distinct languages OTHER than English being spoken. I heard Polish, Hungarian, Ukrainian and what sounded to me like some weird dialect of German (it could have been Yiddish, but I don’t know because I wasn’t introduced to the people who were speaking it).
Doom — “All I did was make a statement that in some areas of town we even have illegals buying groceries using Georgia food stamps and I based that assertion on my observation in a couple of grocery stores that none of the people could speak or understand any English whatsoever. Its my simple contention that some of them are probably illegal aliens and now everyone is raising hell about how judgemental a comment that was.”
GOALPOST MOVEMENT ALERT
No, you cited a *specific* instance and then asserted that the people in question *were* illegosos and *could not* speak English. At least three posters (including myself) have been asking how you knew that, and you’ve finally admitted that you didn’t *know* either of those things in the case you cited.
Nobody is questioning that it CAN happen and that it DOES. What we are questioning is whether or not YOU actually saw it in the specific case that YOU cited.
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
3:53 pm
…maybe I’ll just change it to Hillbilly.
It’s your call, of course, but I think the Deluxe gives you a certain je ne sais quoi!
(Unless I can come up with something as inspired as Brocephus. I think that belongs in the Blogname Hall of Fame).
Hear, hear! The man is a veritable, modern day Renaissance dude!
I too have been thinking of retiring my nom de blogue for some time, but inertia sets in and I haven’t found that kickass moniker yet, so…
Brosephus
May 24th, 2011
3:54 pm
HD
As dB said, I see nothing uppity about su nombre.
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
3:56 pm
Thulsa
Speaking now as a teacher…one of the situations we have to deal with is that of the fact that when the socio-economic infrastructure has developed to the point that one can go through the day with no need for the majority language, then one has to come to new terms in dealing with the education of the children from the minority language community…unlike the Yankee occupiers and the French, you can’t just beat it out of the,,,
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
3:56 pm
Didn’t that have Dave Chappelle as Conspiracy Brother?
Yep sure did and Denise Richards as White Girl!! That was a funny movie! And the part about the mayonnaise!! I must’ve laughed myself into coughing fits when I saw that!
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
3:58 pm
I like both Brosephus’ and Hillbilly Deluxe’s screen names…no need to second guess their perspectives!
Thulsa
I hope you did not misunderstand what I was saying when I said you were taking a narrow view…I wasn’t saying you were narrow minded, but that the view was limited…
Brosephus
May 24th, 2011
3:59 pm
Man, is RW ever gonna get a big(ger!) head if he reads this!
I’ll make sure he sees this page.. (if I can remember to tell him)
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
3:59 pm
Credit RW for that one. He led me to the path, and I merely stepped into the shoes.
Bro, there is an old Buddhist saying, “When the student is ready, the master appears.”
Man, is RW ever gonna get a big(ger!) head if he reads this!
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
3:59 pm
No, you cited a *specific* instance and then asserted that the people in question *were* illegosos and *could not* speak English. At least three posters (including myself) have been asking how you knew that, and you’ve finally admitted that you didn’t *know* either of those things in the case you cited.- Joe mama
Joe,
Yes. And I do believe that some of those people were most certainly illegals. Can you prove that they weren’t. Um. Nope. You weren’t there sir. Its kinda like that idea that bears poop in the woods Joe. I’ve never personally witnessed it and don’t know anyone who has. But I will state with reasonable certainty that it does happen. Just as I will state with reasonable certainty that in Atlanta, GA. that if you are in a grocery store where no one can speak English that some of those people are probably here illegally. Next you’re probably going to also deny that there are illegals working in the restaurant industry here in ATL despite the topic of Jay’s blog today.
Paul
May 24th, 2011
4:00 pm
SoCom
“I’ve come across green card holders who have been here since Reagan granted amnesty that don’t speak English”
One of the favorite things I heard was from a guy who lived in Germany before the drawdown, said he was in town and three young GIs came out of one of the stores and one of’em said “Damn! We’ve been in this country for 40 years, you think they’d learn how to speak English!”
Hillbilly
If you’re going to change your screen name, would you consider “Hillybilly”? Try as I might, most of the time I have to take out that extra ‘y’ that keeps making its way in.
Brocephus
RW, huh? You’re lucky he didn’t talk you into ‘Bucephalus.’
You gotta watch that guy (
).
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
4:02 pm
SoCo
Oooooh, DDR DIDN’T just bring up Dave Chapelle and consipiracy, did she?
DDR
No dig intended your way, it’s just a joke between me and SoCo at St. Elsewhere!
And BTW, three more days and the sorry, low-down, good for nothing gets to live up to the name for a few days. Thank you tax-payers of Georgia!
Mighy Righty
May 24th, 2011
4:04 pm
Obama does it again. He talked over the Queens anthem and offered a toast to the Queen and did not drink. The man is an embarassment.
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
4:04 pm
Thulsa
Now why would you assume Spanish is my “second” language?
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
4:04 pm
Josef nix,
I understand what you’re saying. In my line of work I’ve dealt with numerous people that have green cards, numerous legal and illegal immigrants. Contrary to what some people may think I actually have run into many people that are here on legal visas, HB-1s, green cards, Cuban Americans who speak no English, etc. I’m as aware as anybody that not everybody is illegal just because they don’t speak English. But I think people need to also have some scale, scope, and perspective and get away from the super high sensitivities regarding illegal aliens. And by that I’m obviously not referring to yourself of course.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 24th, 2011
4:05 pm
I thought Yankee English was Josef’s second language.
Maybe on those days the blog gives me heartburn, I could be “Hillbilly Reflux”.
Joe Cool~"PRESIDENT Obama" Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
May 24th, 2011
4:05 pm
Am I late with this?
Hispanic GOP group urges Porsche to build HQ outside Georgia:
A Hispanic Republican group opposed to Georgia’s new immigration enforcement law is asking Porsche to reconsider building its new North American headquarters in the state. Somos Republicans — an Arizona-based organization aimed at increasing the number of Latinos voting for Republican candidates — made the request in an open letter it issued Friday concerning Georgia’s House Bill 87.
“Critics of HB 87 are already organizing boycotts, a development which should concern [Porsche], which as a Georgia-based company would likely experience a reduction in sales from such a boycott,” the letter says.
Republicans will eat their own.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
4:05 pm
Mr. Doom — “Yes. And I do believe that some of those people were most certainly illegals. Can you prove that they weren’t. Um. Nope. You weren’t there sir.”
It’s not on me to *disprove* what you *can’t* prove, Doom. It’s kind of like being in court.
“Its kinda like that idea that bears poop in the woods Joe. I’ve never personally witnessed it and don’t know anyone who has. But I will state with reasonable certainty that it does happen.”
No one is arguing that point, Doom. Nobody here is saying that it doesn’t happen. What’s being argued is whether or not *you* saw it happen in the case that you cited. And after a whole bunch of round-the-mulberry-bush sniping, you’ve admitted that you didn’t know it. That’s all.
“Just as I will state with reasonable certainty that in Atlanta, GA. that if you are in a grocery store where no one can speak English that some of those people are probably here illegally.”
Where no one *can* speak English, or just where they don’t happen to *be* speaking it? You seem to presume that people who prefer to speak another language among themselves aren’t able to speak English. Do you not see the logical error in that, Doom?
“Next you’re probably going to also deny that there are illegals working in the restaurant industry here in ATL despite the topic of Jay’s blog today.”
That’s pretty ludicrous, given what I’d posted before you even showed up. Perhaps you should back up and read my earlier posts, Mr. Doom.
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
4:06 pm
Ah yes, the lovely Denise Richards.
Aka Black Man’s Kryptonite!
Classic stuff…
Adam
May 24th, 2011
4:07 pm
Can you prove that they weren’t. Um. Nope.
Being unable to prove that a group of people that none of us ever encountered, EXCEPT FOR YOU, proves NOTHING.
This is a logical fallacy. Can anyone name which one?
Class?
Anyone?
Bosch
May 24th, 2011
4:08 pm
if you are in a store where there are many Hispanics in their 20s and 30s who can’t speak a word of English to the English speaking cashiers I’m simply stating that its a reasonable assumption that some of them are illegal aliens.
If you are a narrow minded bigot, but for the rest of us, not so much.
Fred
May 24th, 2011
4:08 pm
Jonix:I hope you did not misunderstand what I was saying when I said you were taking a narrow view…I wasn’t saying you were narrow minded, but that the view was limited…
Actually it’s NOT limited. Anytime I lived in a Country I attempted to learn the language. Remember the whole “melting pot” thing? If you won’t learn the language, you are at best a hostile resident. Go the hell back to where you came from.
Fred
May 24th, 2011
4:10 pm
Joe Cool @ 4:05: The funny thing is that most Hispanics I know are more in line with Republican views than Democrat views. If the idiots would quit persecuting them, the Republicans could add MILLIONS to their voting rolls.,……..
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 24th, 2011
4:10 pm
We’ve all been pretty patient, or as patient as this lot can be, so are they EVER going to fix the damn shifting posts?
Joe Cool~"PRESIDENT Obama" Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
May 24th, 2011
4:11 pm
“The funny thing is that most Hispanics I know are more in line with Republican views than Democrat views”
Sad part is the views dont equate to reality or the narative. Yet, the cons always get worked up about why the black community votes Democrat majority of the time.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
4:12 pm
Fred — “The funny thing is that most Hispanics I know are more in line with Republican views than Democrat views. If the idiots would quit persecuting them, the Republicans could add MILLIONS to their voting rolls.”
My Hispanic wife has pointed this out to me many, many times. She’s absolutely baffled at how the Republicans have played this issue.
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
4:12 pm
Thulsa
No problem. The other night when I posted to those of the “speak English” school of thought, how many have ever tried to learn another language, you were the one who responded and we were able to go off on an interesting and informative ride in which I said I would listent to YOU.
Suffice it to say, when it comes to mixing Spanish speaking up with the immigration issue…I have my own issues there…as do several million of our fellow citizens, and most especially the tejanos, New Mexico espanoles and the Puerto Ricans…that was why I said what I did about taking a narrow view…
I might could go with your contention in, say Atlanta, but never in San Antonio, San Juan, or Santa Fe…
Joe Cool~"PRESIDENT Obama" Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
May 24th, 2011
4:13 pm
“My Hispanic wife has pointed this out to me many, many times. She’s absolutely baffled at how the Republicans have played this issue.”
Translation=THEY DONT WANT THEM (well at least the base doesnt).
USMC
May 24th, 2011
4:13 pm
“Actually it’s NOT limited. Anytime I lived in a Country I attempted to learn the language. Remember the whole “melting pot” thing? If you won’t learn the language, you are at best a hostile resident. Go the hell back to where you came from.” Fred
These are the WISEST words spoken ALL DAY!
Remember the “UGLY AMERICAN” from the 70’s?
He goes to a foreign country and won’t learn the language, try the food, or learn the culture…
(Hey Where’s McDonalds???)
The Illegal Aliens from south of the border are the first group to come to the U.S. and NOT assimilate; that’s a problem.
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
4:13 pm
Where no one *can* speak English, or just where they don’t happen to *be* speaking it? You seem to presume that people who prefer to speak another language among themselves aren’t able to speak English. Do you not see the logical error in that, Doom?- Joe mama
Joe mama,
No. You are presuming that that’s what I am presuming. Do you see the logical error in that Joe? If you will go back and re read you will see that I was talking about people who couldn’t understand any of the English that the English speaking cashier was saying to them. It wasn’t a matter of wanting to speak Spanish amongst themselves which I understand perfectly well. It was a matter of people who couldn’t speak or understand a word of English that is being spoken to them. And it is of my opinion that if you have a number of people none of which can understand any of the English that the cashier is speaking to them that its a reasonable bet that some of them are here illegally.
Why a common sense observation like this bothers you so much is a mystery? Perhaps you are trying to read some racism or xenophobia in there somewhere and you’re just itching for a gotcha moment? I dunno. You can talk till you’re blue in the face joe or type until your fingers fall off. You’re not going to change my mind about what is to me a very reasonable assumption given the overall situation.
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
4:15 pm
Hillbilly
“I thought Yankee English was Josef’s second language”
It’s my fourth!
Mighy Righty
May 24th, 2011
4:15 pm
Joe Cool~”PRESIDENT Obama” Tells Birthers,”Thanks For Playing BI+CHES”
May 24th, 2011
4:05 pm
Am I late with this?
Hispanic GOP group urges Porsche to build HQ outside Georgia:
A Hispanic Republican group opposed to Georgia’s new immigration enforcement law is asking Porsche to reconsider building its new North American headquarters in the state. Somos Republicans — an Arizona-based organization aimed at increasing the number of Latinos voting for Republican candidates — made the request in an open letter it issued Friday concerning Georgia’s House Bill 87.
I guess you didn’t hear the latest. Porsche said they were going ahead with the project.
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
4:15 pm
I might could go with your contention in, say Atlanta, but never in San Antonio, San Juan, or Santa Fe…- Josef Nix
Exactly, when I lived in Cali I operated under the assumption that anyone speaking Spanish in San Diego was a legal Hispanic American- same when I lived in Miami and conversed with Cuban Americans. Here in Atlanta my assumptions are a little bit different than from say a Santa Fe or San Antonio, San Diego, Miami, etc. Somehow people aren’t understanding that though.
deegee
May 24th, 2011
4:15 pm
So, I suppose that if I go to Chinatown in San Francisco and I observe people speaking Chinese then I am to assume that they are illegal immigrants? Is that correct, Thulsa?
josef nix
May 24th, 2011
4:17 pm
FRED
And who made English that “language of the country.” We make a point of speaking French whenever we’re down home…it’s a political statement…