Where illegal immigration, business and the law collide
“Look, I’m not a criminal. I don’t go around breaking the law, because for one thing I have way too much to lose. I do everything by the book. But if this law goes into effect, I’m telling you I’m not going to follow it. I’m just not. Because I can’t.”
I was sitting at a restaurant bar, talking to its owner about the potential impact of House Bill 87, the illegal immigration bill. He had contacted me, asking if I wanted to hear “the economic perspective of a small business owner,” with the understanding that he would remain anonymous.
“Some restaurant owners who publicly opposed this bill have received death threats, leading me to want to stay below the radar,” he explained in the email. On that basis, we agreed to meet.
If the law survives legal challenge and goes into effect, the owner said, he would face two choices: He could obey the law, lose a very big chunk of his ktichen staff and be forced out of business; or he could evade the law and save his business.
“I’ve got my future and my family’s future tied up in this,” he said, looking around at the bustling restaurant. “We’re doing good right now, but I’m in debt millions of dollars. And when I made that decision (to borrow the money), I didn’t have any idea that they’d be passing a law like this. My bank didn’t have any idea they’d be passing a law like this.”
“I don’t get it. They talk about jobs jobs jobs. The only two industries generating revenue and jobs for Georgia are hospitality and agriculture. And this is going to ruin them both. And it’s not just my kitchen staff who will lose their jobs. All of my front-of-the house workers [bartenders, waiters, hostesses], they’ll be out of work too. We’ve already lost the construction industry, and now we’re going to lose these too. Nobody I know is considering opening another restaurant in this state.”
In fact, if the construction industry was still booming as it was a few years ago, he said, there’s no way the Legislature would have passed HB 87. Back then, too many politically connected people were making too much money off illegal workers. And the hospitality and agriculture industries just don’t have the clout that developers once wielded.
Right now, he said, he does everything he can to abide by the law. He doesn’t pay anybody off the books, which means that everybody on his staff is paying taxes. “This claim that they don’t pay taxes — I don’t get that,” he says. “Yeah, they may not pay a lot in income taxes, but nobody else in those jobs does either [because they don't make a lot of money]. But they pay sales taxes, property taxes, unemployment taxes, and they’re paying a lot of money into Social Security that they’re never going to get back.”
“See that guy right there,” he said, nodding his head toward a nearby waiter. “He’s been in this country since he was five, when his parents brought him here. He graduated from high school here, and he probably speaks better English than I do. He doesn’t know a damn thing about Mexico. And they want to send him back? Back to what? Have you seen what’s going on in Mexico these days?”
“I’m trying to grow my business; I’m trying to help my people grow and build good lives. I don’t think the politicians know what they’re doing. I just don’t think they’ve thought this through.”
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780 comments Add your comment
Mighy Righty
May 24th, 2011
12:25 pm
It’s clear. Netanyahu rejects Obama’s Israeli Palistinian policy to cheering Democrats.
Independent
May 24th, 2011
12:25 pm
johnny elkins – there is a job waiting for you in Vidalia. Put up or shut up. Write back after your first month on the farm.
deegee
May 24th, 2011
12:25 pm
No, it’s not a common excuse. I should have said it was the most memorable excuse.
jm
May 24th, 2011
12:26 pm
So the NH primary is in March. These guys are going to be campaigning in NH and SC for 9 months?….
deegee
May 24th, 2011
12:27 pm
The guy was trying to use the plural form of tests. He thought that testes was plural for tests.
Adam
May 24th, 2011
12:28 pm
ty webb: I’m sorry you were under the impression that I agree with everything Obama does because I often disagree with the conservative handling of many issues, including immigration. It’s not so binary.
There are responsible ways and irresponsible ways of dealing with illegal immigration, and a bill that targets legal immigrants or business owners who were previously acting within both state and federal laws is NOT responsible.
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
12:28 pm
And it blows for those kids, stands.
Even though I’m a lifelong NYY fan, if I were King, I guarantee you those kids would have that place back.
So I hate it with a capital H, but you know the old, sacred adage in this country – money talks and you know what walks.
And a whole boatload of us are walking…
jm
May 24th, 2011
12:29 pm
Since the Daniels saga is over, here’s a Huntsman update for those looking for a good conservative, but moderate, Republican.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/05/24/in_nh_huntsman_separated_himself_from_romney_109972.html
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2011
12:29 pm
I had to go to the hospital for some testes.
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
12:33 pm
He thought that testes was plural for tests.
Ironically, when you think with your testes, you’re generally bound to fail.
Ivan
May 24th, 2011
12:34 pm
Wasn’t the left ranting not too long ago how businesses aren’t held accountable for hiring illegals? They’re the ones getting fat profits off cheap labor, right? That it’s the illegals that are the victims here?
Sounds like the guy running this restaurant can’t even cheat the system right. Someone from the left give him a call.
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
12:35 pm
deegee: – I had to go to the hospital for some testes.
you had to go to the hospital for some testes!! did they fall off or did you never have any? Just asking…..
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
12:35 pm
What a shocker!
American militarists cheering on Israeli militarists.
Who would have believed it…
jm
May 24th, 2011
12:36 pm
AmVet 12:35 – keep in mind, AIPAC is heavily Dem
jm
May 24th, 2011
12:37 pm
If Rudy G runs, its going to be very annoying. The guy can’t and won’t win, so he’s just wasting everyone’s time.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
12:38 pm
Stands — “Ironically, when you think with your testes, you’re generally bound to fail.”
Or else wake up with a raging hangover and an intense feeling of regret. And someone in bed next to you whom you didn’t intend to be there.
RB from Gwinnett
May 24th, 2011
12:39 pm
This problem won’t go away until we stop propping up the “less fortunate” who refuse to do the work these illegals are doing and expect them to show up for work 5 days/week. The part of this story Jay either heard and didn’t print or the man didn’t tell him is he’s choosing that illegal kid over the “less fortuate” because he shows up for work and does a good job and if he had to rely on the “less fortuate”, his business would suffer. They aren’t worth the hassle and he’d rather take his chances getting caught with the illegals. Tell me if I’m wrong Jay. Did he tell you that?
The worthless “less fortunate” class brought to you by crying jag liberals who have never met a person responsible for their own actions!!!
Paul
May 24th, 2011
12:39 pm
SoCom
“I had to go to the hospital for some testes.”
Well, at least now there’s a retort when someone says “grow a pair” or ‘man up.’
‘xcuse me, I gotta go to the lab for some tsetses.
Jay
May 24th, 2011
12:41 pm
jm, huntsman stands no chance.
I predicted Pawlenty by default months ago, and that remains my prediction.
Independent
May 24th, 2011
12:43 pm
I had some testes once – in Wyoming. They call them Rocky Mountain Oysters.
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2011
12:43 pm
Paul
I can just see that now. Frankentesticles.
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
12:43 pm
Wasn’t the left ranting not too long ago how businesses aren’t held accountable for hiring illegals?
and then a (mildly) left-leaning columnist decided to listen to what a businessman had to say about this accountability, and reported what he’d heard. Crazy stuff, huh?
buck@gon
May 24th, 2011
12:43 pm
Jay,
It’s not just three subjects here. It’s four: illegal immigration, businesses, the state law, the federal government.
First, if the federal government would take seriously border enforcement, the rest of these issues, including the path to citizenship would be academic issues, not real ones.
You’re right in that we have businesses that want and perhaps need Mexican workers to do certain jobs at low cost. What we have also is a certain left-wing liberal political party that wants to coral as many nascent, legal voters as it can. We have another right-sided party that wants to offend as few Mexicans as it can.
Without a strong President who provides leadership on this issue (such a person, by definition would be the anti-Obama), I see no solution. We can not continue a lax border enforcement along with a national effort to legalize illegals with an act of Congress. Such amnesty is simply unacceptable to every country in the world. It is analogous exactly to the Palestinian right of return. Let’s call it instead the right of Mexicans to just live here.
Like Israel, we either have sovereignty or we don’t.
It is unfortunate that businesses and workers are being caught in the middle of all this, but neither federal government, nor illegal immigrants themselves are being straight with us. To accept as legal, someone whose first act in coming here was to break the law is simply crazy and entirely unAmerican.
Independent
May 24th, 2011
12:44 pm
I went to the lab for some tsetses once, too, but the flies had all escaped.
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
12:45 pm
“AIPAC is heavily Dem”
And why would that matter to me?
I indicted militarism, and like countless other topics, the difference between the Tweedledeers and the Tweedledummers is microscopic.
One of the great tragedies of today is that so many Americans refuse to see and acknowledge this essential non-difference…
jm
May 24th, 2011
12:46 pm
Jay 12:41 – “huntsman stands no chance” -probably true, but maybe not. We’ll see…. you never know. I honestly don’t know who I’d bet on as the “favorite” between Huntsman, Romney, or Pawlenty. They all have strengths, and they all have weaknesses (nobody’s perfect).
Candidates can end up rocketing out of these small state primaries to gain their own momentum.
LOL
May 24th, 2011
12:47 pm
Sorry, but I fail to see this guy’s point. If he had not ILLEGALLY HIRED his kitchen staff to begin with he would not be in his current predicament. I guess the only way he can remain open is to avoid paying payroll taxes on his kitchen staff while paying them sub-standard wgaes as well. There are ways to keep these people working, apply for work permits. Nobody is against immigration, this is a country of immigrants; but is it so hard to ask that you come to this country LEGALLY, after all we are also a nation of LAWS. This restaraunt owner needs to do what it takes to make his people legal, or hire somebody else. Of course if he hires a LEGAL immigarnt or a US CITIZEN he has to pay taxes on that employee as well.
joe suggs
May 24th, 2011
12:49 pm
Illegals work these minimum wage jobs because they have to. Make them citizens and they will be on welfare,foodstamps,medicaid,publc housing etc.They came here illegally.It is not the United States problem to support or offer jobs to them .
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
12:52 pm
Well if the illegals are forced to leave then this restaurant owner would be forced to do what they used to do 20 years ago before illegals came- hire Americans. If Georgia still has unemployment just under 10% then it seems to me that he’s got a ready pool of Georgians that he can hire. People always say these jobs won’t get done without illegals doing them. My question is if that’s true then who used to do all the restaurant jobs, construction jobs, and hospitality jobs before the illegals came? That’s right- blue collar white and black Americans who’ve seen their wages- particularly in construction- pushed downward through competition with illegal labor.
When I was 16 I worked in a restaurant washing dishes and my co workers were all black and white teenagers or black and white men and women in their early 20s working at a restaurant while they either went through college or working there after college while looking for a job in their chosen field. Americans will still work those jobs. Agricultural jobs such as picking crops are about the only jobs I’ve seen that Americans don’t want and even then I could be very wrong on that point.
And btw I’ve no problem with immigration. Let them come. But have an American first job policy- there is no reason for us to have 10% unemployment among Georgians while employers hire illegals at lower wages. And in regards to the illegals just document all of them, make them pay a surcharge on their paychecks to offset their costs to our social services systems, judicial system, education system, and health care system to offset their enormous costs. And deport the ones that are criminals.
Adam
May 24th, 2011
12:52 pm
buck@gon: It is unfortunate that businesses and workers are being caught in the middle of all this, but…
Hang on a minute. I thought you guys were against anything and everything that could even remotely or academically or emotionally affect businesses. What gives?
Yahtzee
May 24th, 2011
12:53 pm
LOL,
you are exactly right…i feel no sympathy for this restaraunt owner, he knowingly broke the law hiring illegal immigrants and now is upset that these laws will be enforced
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
12:54 pm
About the folks who feel compelled to capitalize the word “illegal”–what kind of mental condition is behind that weird tic?
deegee
May 24th, 2011
12:54 pm
It is ironic that the same folks that want unions busted, regulations relaxed, and corporate taxes lowered all in the name of helping business are adamantly against allowing business owners to hire the best person for the job.
Adam
May 24th, 2011
12:54 pm
Thulsa: what they used to do 20 years ago before illegals came
Yep, 20 years ago is when it ALL STARTED.
St Simons - we're on Island time
May 24th, 2011
12:55 pm
The Whigs Experience Buyer’s Remorse
“The buzz all over the radio world today is the newly published, highly accurate Arbitron ratings on radio station listenership. Rush Limbaugh’s ratings have fallen sharply in recent months. Limbaugh’s audience has dropped by 33 percent since October. And he’s not the only one–Sean Hannity’s ratings have also slipped by 28 percent.”
Ahhh, heheh, the Olds showed up with their hoverounds and poorly spelled signs. Now they’ve learned the joke, or the con if you will, was on them.
My 1 yr old, 15 years from now – “Daddy, what was a Republican?”
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
12:55 pm
20 years ago before illegals came
ha ha ha ha.
you so funny. Me love you long time.
scrappy
May 24th, 2011
12:57 pm
buck@gon –
1 – Current administration has done lots to secure the borders including more hiring and national guards. Perhaps you should research this fact first instead of listening to GOP talking heads.
2- Come off it – you really think that Democrats want to give amnesty to 12millon people just because they think they will all vote for Democrats? If you looked a little harder you might see that Mexicans value structures more closly relate to that of the GOP. (ok, I admit to stereotype a bit there, but generally it is true)
3 – Yes, it is all Obamas fault. We never had this problem before… yeah, right.
4 – Poor business, they are just caught in the middle… another yeah, right for ya…
Now for my thoughts – the problem is not going away, nor is it feasible to round up and deport 12 million people. The only logically solution is to provide some type of path toward citizenship.
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
12:58 pm
joe suggs,
Many of them are already on food stamps. There are several grocery stores in Marietta for example that you can go to where every single person in the checkout line is paying for their groceries with georgia food stamps. And notta one can speak English. They’ve learned already how to game our social services systems. And on payroll taxes? Anyone who knows about the textile mills, poultry plants, etc will tell you that they all claim crazy #s of dependents like 10 or 15 in order to avoid paying any federal taxes. They are paying fica taxes of course but as far as overall tax contributions they are not paying their fair share- not even close. These are the only 2 issues I have with illegals. Let them come but do not let them rip off our tax or social svcs systems. We’ve got enough fraud going on without them contributing even more fraud.
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
1:00 pm
Adam and stands for decibels,
It didn’t all start right at 20 years ago. But the bottom line is that in the last 2-3 decades that illegal immigration has significantly ramped up. Do you deny this obvious fact of life?
Kamchak
May 24th, 2011
1:02 pm
…what they used to do 20 years ago before illegals came…
There’s your sign.
Oi.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
1:03 pm
Mr. Doom — “what they used to do 20 years ago before illegals came”
You can’t possibly be for real.
Themistocles (a.k.a. Left Wing Mgmt)
May 24th, 2011
1:03 pm
Jay: “I predicted Pawlenty by default months ago, and that remains my prediction.”
Really? You don’t think Mitt has a prayer?
What about the idea of an emergency last-minute entry by a Rick Perry or Jeff Christie that’s been floated in view of the dismal GOP field?
Paul
May 24th, 2011
1:03 pm
LOL
“. If he had not ILLEGALLY HIRED his kitchen staff to begin with”
Do you know something that contradicts what Jay wrote? What did the restaurant owner do that violated the law?
(I’ll save you some time. He did not violate the law).
Logical Dude
May 24th, 2011
1:03 pm
Sorry if I am thinking this through as I write:
So if he paid his “regular wages” to “Legal” staff, what would happen? Are there just not enough good legal staff who can work for his wages?
I guess this is the problem at its core. You can under-pay an illegal and they can’t/won’t complain. Why can’t he pay legal staff the same? He claims he’d have to pay more and raise his prices.
So, He’d have to raise prices if he went “legit”. Now mulitply that by how many “illegals” are working now. And you then pretty much have everyone paying more for everything. (perhaps I exagerrate?)
Will everyone paying higher prices mean we go into another downturn in the economy?
Ooops. . . .did I just imply that this law could cause havoc on the economy?
Goldie
May 24th, 2011
1:04 pm
Jay, the GOP in GA is just plain hateful. A big bunch of bullying haters. They hate on immigrants, on gay people, on poor people, and especially poor people who’re not descendants of the poor people of northern Europe!
Mike
May 24th, 2011
1:05 pm
Joe Mama, you are simply trying to evade the issue by seeking to redefine what charitable giving is. Donations to political PACS are not deductible and are not charities.
If you want the breakdown, I suggest you do your own research, but I suspect the bulk of the giving is through churches, which are more efficient at aiding the needy. I know I had to laugh when I saw Obama & Biden’s disclosures of their giving from the year before announcing presidential bids. On an income less than one third of Biden’s Out gave him 10-1. Makes you wonder why Obama wants to phase out the charitable contribution deduction and take that money for the government to give to his favorite charity – unions who give it to democrats.
Paul
May 24th, 2011
1:08 pm
LOL
And upwards of fifteen bucks an hour is ’substandard wages’?!!?
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
1:08 pm
poison pen,
You may have been right all along about this story being completely made up. A restaurant owner who had to borrow “millions of dollars”. It doesn’t cost “millions of dollars” to open one restaurant. Something smells kinda fishy. Maybe it was a fish restaurant he opened.
Logical Dude
May 24th, 2011
1:09 pm
Themistocles “Really? You don’t think Mitt has a prayer?”
Jay had a Mitt column a couple weeks ago. Mitt can’t win because Obamacare mirrors Romneycare, and Mitt was defending Romneycare.
In Summary: Mitt was telling the truth about what it means to support people through healthcare, but it doesn’t sell to the far right, so he’ll lose.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
1:09 pm
Mr. Doom — “There are several grocery stores in Marietta for example that you can go to where every single person in the checkout line is paying for their groceries with georgia food stamps.”
Nothing illegal about that.
“And notta one can speak English.”
And you’d know that how, exactly? Did you ask them? I know you speak enough Spanish to get along.
“And on payroll taxes? Anyone who knows about the textile mills, poultry plants, etc will tell you that they all claim crazy #s of dependents like 10 or 15 in order to avoid paying any federal taxes.”
IIRC, employers are supposed to undertake verification action with requests for high numbers of exemptions; employers who fail to do so can be on the hook for the withholdings *themselves.* I don’t think there are many businesses who care to front their employees any money for their own personal withholdings amounts.
If you doubt what I’m saying, then try putting in a request to change your own deductions to 10-15 dependents and see what happens. Be sure to report back here to us on that.
Paul
May 24th, 2011
1:10 pm
Hi Goldie!
ATF
May 24th, 2011
1:10 pm
It would be interesting to see what Kyle Wingfield would do with interviewing the same man on the same story.
Jay
May 24th, 2011
1:12 pm
Who said he had one restaurant, Thulsa?
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
1:13 pm
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
1:03 pm
Mr. Doom — “what they used to do 20 years ago before illegals came”
You can’t possibly be for real.
Joe Mama, when I was 16 back in 1984 I got my first job washing dishes. Certainly there was illegal immigration then but my point is that illegal immigration really seemed to start in the 80s but has ramped up even more in the past 2 decades. Don’t know how old you are but assuming you are in your mid 40s like myself or older you probably remember growing up and seeing most of the jobs that illegals work today having been occupied by blue collar Americans 20-30 years ago. I certainly remember when construction workers were all white or some white some black crews. And as I said I remember restaurant workers were primarily American. My how things have changed.
getalife
May 24th, 2011
1:14 pm
This video in this link shows exactly how w governed for eight long years.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/A-J-Pierzynski-chases-foul-ball-meets-George-W?urn=mlb-wp7540
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
1:14 pm
Obama wants to phase out the charitable contribution deduction and take that money for the government to give to his favorite charity – unions who give it to democrats
Is this before or after he takes away yer guns?
Logical Dude
May 24th, 2011
1:14 pm
Paul: “(I’ll save you some time. He did not violate the law).”
Then what did his staff put on the I-9? (The Federal Form all employees must fill out when hired)
The I-9 is used for Federal purposes of verifying work eligibility.
ty webb
May 24th, 2011
1:15 pm
“I’m sorry you were under the impression that I agree with everything Obama does because I often disagree with the conservative handling of many issues, including immigration. It’s not so binary.
There are responsible ways and irresponsible ways of dealing with illegal immigration, and a bill that targets legal immigrants or business owners who were previously acting within both state and federal laws is NOT responsible.”
Adam,
I just find it funny that you call republican southern states “racist” for adopting laws aimed at reducing the number of illegals(”those people”), yet you don’t call president obama racist for policies and practices that do the same(increasing deportation, increasing border patrol agents). Why the inconsistency?
Jay
May 24th, 2011
1:16 pm
Georgia and federal law prevents the granting of food stamps to those unable to prove their citizenship or legal status.
Payroll taxes are collected regardless of the number of dependents, and most of the jobs in question don’t pay enough to generate an income tax liability of any significance.
Logical Dude
May 24th, 2011
1:16 pm
Joe Mama: “try putting in a request to change your own deductions to 10-15 dependents and see what happens. Be sure to report back here to us on that.”
I did 10, and I got a higher paycheck.
This works well for those paychecks where I get a bonus and want to keep the bonus in my bank instead of paying the huge increase in taxes that day.
I just have to remember to put the deductions back down to reality.
It’s easier to bump up the elections than to claim “EXEMPT” because there is less hassle.
Goldie
May 24th, 2011
1:17 pm
So, who’s going to apply for all those restaurant, landscaping and hotel jobs that will become available once the GOP haters have their way??? I think that’s what this restaurant owner’s fear is about: not being able to find the workers he’ll need to keep his business afloat.
I know personally that the guy who helps me sometimes with my yard work says he can’t find enough so-called “legal” workers to help him with his business right now… not enough people even answer his help wanted ads he puts in the paper right now!
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
1:17 pm
Mr. Doom — “what they used to do 20 years ago before illegals came”
versus
“Certainly there was illegal immigration then”
Thank you for your clarification. See? It’s not hard to be honest. And people will respect you for it.
“but my point is that illegal immigration really seemed to start in the 80s but has ramped up even more in the past 2 decades.”
You mean you only started to *notice* it then. Illegal immigration’s been going on for as long as we’ve been a country. And there’s always some ethnicity or nationality of immigrants that gets slagged on; my people took their turn over a century ago and now Hispanics are taking their turn.
My wife grew up in agricultural areas of California (her pop worked as an accountant and paymaster for one of the big farming outfits out there), and buddy, there’s been illegoso labor out there for frickin’ EVER.
“Don’t know how old you are but assuming you are in your mid 40s like myself or older you probably remember growing up and seeing most of the jobs that illegals work today having been occupied by blue collar Americans 20-30 years ago.”
I don’t think what you describe is the fault of the illegosos. I think it’s the fault of employers who are more and more willing to *hire* illegosos.
“I certainly remember when construction workers were all white or some white some black crews. And as I said I remember restaurant workers were primarily American. My how things have changed.”
Again, I think you should look to the employers who have become more willing to break the law and hire illegosos in the first place — like the restaurant guy that Jay spoke to.
Yahtzee
May 24th, 2011
1:17 pm
if i spot someone breaking the law, who can i call?
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
1:18 pm
Doom: Anyone who knows about the textile mills, poultry plants, etc will tell you that they all claim crazy #s of dependents like 10 or 15 in order to avoid paying any federal taxes
That would bring up a red flag. You can claim that many, however when you go to file you will have to provide SSN#’s for each person you’ve claimed. If you can not, you can bet you will be in the “audit” category. An illegal worker, hopefully would not be that dumb. Why make problems if you don’t have to? And yes, they do file.
Finn McCool
May 24th, 2011
1:19 pm
Have Republicans Lost Their Minds
http://www.slate.com/id/2295128/
Pretty funny…and sad.
Logical Dude
May 24th, 2011
1:19 pm
Thulsa Doom — “what they used to do 20 years ago before illegals came”
I think this phrase was just poorly worded. And perhaps also shows that you may only be speaking of Georgia. Because “illegals” are, and have been, in California, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and Florida for A LOT LONGER than you think. . . Oh wait. . . many of those had Hispanics before they were actually States!
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
1:20 pm
Doom: I certainly remember when construction workers were all white….
Ah yes…the good ole days……….I bet you miss those huh?
Bosch
May 24th, 2011
1:21 pm
Georgia and federal law prevents the granting of food stamps to those unable to prove their citizenship or legal status.
Which wingnuts NEVER EVER seem to understand.
They deny that simple fact almost as much as the ol’ “people on welfare don’t work.”
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
1:21 pm
“…the bulk of the giving is through churches, which are more efficient at aiding the needy.”
I’d love to see some facts to support that claim, Mike. Do you have any?
But I suspect that getting real figures regarding it would be easier through the mafia…
All I could find was this: “the Mormon Church spends less than $10 per year per member on direct charity. ($1 billion for 5,000,000 members over 20 years, at about $6 billion in tithes a year, NOT counting other funds which they keep separate)”
That is less than 1%.
Time to review that 1894 law regarding these requirements that exempt them from business taxes, wouldn’t you say?
Finn McCool
May 24th, 2011
1:22 pm
Georgia and federal law prevents the granting of food stamps to those unable to prove their citizenship or legal status.
Oh the facts, they burn. They burns us, My Precious.
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
1:24 pm
Jay,
I just looked up the cost of starting a restaurant from the ground up and it was 200k. Now obviously it can cost much more or less- google it yourself. But for the guy to say he went millions of dollars in debt? Come on now. How many restaurants did he open? 20? I’m not buying it.
Many of us know people who’ve opened restaurants and bars and the cost even for a few restaurants is not millions of dollars. And just about everyone who knows a restaurateur knows that most of them if they have multiple restaurants its usually 2-3 restaurants. If you open too many of them you spread yourself thin obviously and your restaurants can end up cannibalizing sales.
On top of that the restaurant failure rate is very high- if I remember correctly I think the odds of a particular restaurant succeeding after 1 year is something like 50%, after 10 years its something like 10%, etc. I don’t remember the exact numbers but its an extraordinarily high failure rate.
I find it difficult to believe a bank would loan millions of dollars for multiple restaurants given the historically high failure rates. And this in the middle of a tough 3 year economic climate? Something bout this story aint right.
Finn McCool
May 24th, 2011
1:25 pm
Which wingnuts NEVER EVER seem to understand.
Like the fact they can’t vote either?
Paul
May 24th, 2011
1:25 pm
Logical Dude
“Paul: “(I’ll save you some time. He did not violate the law).”
Then what did his staff put on the I-9? (The Federal Form all employees must fill out when hired)
The I-9 is used for Federal purposes of verifying work eligibility”
I take it you’re answering for LOL?
So your position is, in reference to LOL’s assertion regarding the owner “If he had not ILLEGALLY HIRED his kitchen staff” – that the owner committed a crime because someone falsified documentation?
“The I-9 is used for Federal purposes of verifying work eligibility.”
Jay made that point some pages back.
It’s all very logical.
So, how is it the restaurant owner illegally hired staff?
james
May 24th, 2011
1:25 pm
i’ve been eating at my local mexican restaurant for about 3 yrs. and have become friends with mgt. and the staff. they have a revolving door of illegals from the same city in mexico. culturally, i enjoy the experience and get to practice my espanol. i’m pro-illegal.
Guy Fawkes 2011
May 24th, 2011
1:25 pm
The REAL issue should be the FACT that businesses are PAID to export the economy, and the FED keeps printing more and more money each year. The value of our dollar weakens by the day, The Fed is getting kicked out of different countries after trying to buy out whole industries with our money without ever repaying this country back (and that amount is tacked onto what we owe), and the People suffer because middlemen are leeching more and more money through various laws that protect this activity while outlawing direct sales in some industries. Our “social service” economy of bloated CPS departments are now being used to “enforce” unwritten rules that medical providers force upon us, such as forcing parents with medical mistakes on hand to sign off liability or face the forced take-away of the children. Our insurance industries are REQUIRING us to pay for their profits – first with car insurance, now with ObamaCare. Home Insurance companies grade your house and one negative report stemming from a house you USED to live in, AFTER you’ve moved out, can ding your record and send your insurance rates skyrocketing.
America, it’s time to STAND UP AGAINST the Corporatist classes and take your country BACK.
Dave R.
May 24th, 2011
1:26 pm
“So, who’s going to apply for all those restaurant, landscaping and hotel jobs that will become available once the GOP haters have their way?”
Unemployed Americans. Right after he jacks up his wages to market value.
Thus ends another episode of simple answers to simple questions.
Goldie
May 24th, 2011
1:26 pm
” Conspiracy thinking is flourishing on the right like no time since the McCarthy era. The GOP rank and file is in desperate need of a cold shower, a slap in the face, a wake-up call. But instead of telling the base to get a grip on reality, the party’s leaders are chasing after the delusional mob.”
McCool @ 1:19 — great column in Slate. And to answer the headline question: YES they have!
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
1:27 pm
Logical — “I did 10, and I got a higher paycheck. This works well for those paychecks where I get a bonus and want to keep the bonus in my bank instead of paying the huge increase in taxes that day.
I just have to remember to put the deductions back down to reality.”
You should be aware of this, then, sir:
http://www.irs.gov/irb/2007-35_IRB/ar10.html
The IRS can and will look into withholding exemptions that it deems excessive, and if you/your employer can’t furnish justification (and I’m betting that ’so you don’t jack my bonus’ isn’t good enough a reason), the IRS can order your employer to “lock-in” your withholdings and not permit you to make any changes. If your employer lets you change them when you’re supposed to be locked in, then the IRS can collect the missed amount from your employer.
I bet your employer wouldn’t like that.
Goldie
May 24th, 2011
1:27 pm
Mexican food, I think, is my favorite of all foods these days.
Jay
May 24th, 2011
1:28 pm
Well, Thulsa, I know the restaurants, and if you knew them too, you would not believe the estimate is out of line.
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
1:28 pm
From Finn’s link:
The other, the Republicans, has moved to a mental Shangri-La, where unwanted problems (climate change, the need to pay the costs of running the government) can be wished away, prejudice trumps fact (Obama might just be Kenyan-born or a Muslim), expertise is evidence of error, and reality itself comes to be regarded as some kind of elitist plot.
Classic!
getalife
May 24th, 2011
1:29 pm
James,
Tried most of them on Buford Highway.
Now I got the munchies
Dave R.
May 24th, 2011
1:29 pm
“great column in Slate.”
There’s your sign . . .
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
1:30 pm
Goldie — “Mexican food, I think, is my favorite of all foods these days.”
Don’t miss the Mexican ice cream parlors. The ice cream is incredibly rich and flavorful, and the paletas (popsicles) have big chunks of real fruit sticking out of them. I like the ones with strawberries or mangoes.
If you see a Hispanic guy pushing an ice cream/popsicle cart this summer, stop and pay Senor Paletero (loosely ‘Mr. Popsicle Guy’) a visit. I think you’ll be glad you did.
Logical Dude
May 24th, 2011
1:30 pm
Wordpress error: “You are posting comments too quickly. Slow down.”
Darn it, I was just gonna post that I was posting more than usual and did NOT get this error. . .
Alas, I guess I”m posting too quickly!
Jay, This column feels like a heavily edited extract of the conversation.
It leaves us several questions:
What current wages is he paying?
Has he hired ANY documented workers? If so, what percentage of his staff?
Are documented workers paid the same as undocumented workers?
How do his staff fill out the I-9 forms?
How would HE solve the problem of illegal immigration?
What else was left out of the conversation?
I agree with much of what he says, and would definitely grant amnesty to anyone who was a minor when their parents brought them to this country. (they didn’t have a choice in the matter) But as an employer, if he’s not paying wages that keep up with the economy, then he is part of the problem. (you know, worker exploitation)
Bosch
May 24th, 2011
1:31 pm
Oh, the poor whiteys — life is so bad to be white:
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/110524_racism.htm
Themistocles (a.k.a. Left Wing Mgmt)
May 24th, 2011
1:31 pm
Logical Dude: “Jay had a Mitt column a couple weeks ago. Mitt can’t win because Obamacare mirrors Romneycare, and Mitt was defending Romneycare. In Summary: Mitt was telling the truth about what it means to support people through healthcare, but it doesn’t sell to the far right, so he’ll lose.”
Yeah I remember the column. I tend to agree his chances are slim. However, the fact remains that Tim Pawlenty is probably an even weaker candidate that John McCain. So I’d tend to agree with Matt Dowd that we’re likely to see a surprise entry or two to mix things up in the weeks to come. I seriously doubt the GOP brass will stand by without trying to take action given just how extraordinarily bad this field is. I mean, having a somewhat ho hum field of candidates is one thing, but not this bunch of duds.
Bosch
May 24th, 2011
1:32 pm
Finn,
There really is just too many facts they never understand to count…..
Gator Joe
May 24th, 2011
1:33 pm
This law, like the others in states like Arizona, is a security blanket for some insecure, small- minded, bigots, most of whom are white. The biggest “crime” of these immigrants is not being white or English-speaking. These people [bigots] are delusional if they believe this law, and others like it, will stem the tide which has always been a part of this nation’s history
Bosch
May 24th, 2011
1:34 pm
“Tim Pawlenty is probably an even weaker candidate that John McCain”
I read Wingfield’s column today and I really don’t think Pawlenty is really all that smart….
…..let’s go to Iowa and tell the folks there we are doing away with ethanol subsidies, then go to New York and tell the Wall Street guys, no more bailouts, and to end it all off — let’s go to Florida and tell the old people no more Medicare….
I mean really?
Thulsa Doom
May 24th, 2011
1:34 pm
Finn McCool
May 24th, 2011
1:22 pm
Georgia and federal law prevents the granting of food stamps to those unable to prove their citizenship or legal status.
Oh the facts, they burn. They burns us, My Precious.
Finn McCool,
Yes. And there is no fraud in the food stamp program just as there is no fraud in medicare, medicaid, there is no employment fraud either with illegals providing fraudulent SS cards, fraudulent birth certificates, etc. No identity fraud either. Either you’re working on your comedy routine or you live in that lib fantasy land where you also have chocolate unicorns. Which is it Finn?
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
1:34 pm
Mr. Doom — “Yes. And there is no fraud in the food stamp program just as there is no fraud in medicare, medicaid, there is no employment fraud either with illegals providing fraudulent SS cards, fraudulent birth certificates, etc. No identity fraud either. Either you’re working on your comedy routine or you live in that lib fantasy land where you also have chocolate unicorns. Which is it Finn?”
You’re the one alleging that the people you saw were defrauding the Federal government and getting food stamps, so I think the onus is on you to prove that any of the people you saw actually came by those benefits fraudulently.
Merely being Hispanic and using food stamps does not constitute fraud, Mr. Doom.
Adam
May 24th, 2011
1:34 pm
Thulsa: Do you deny this obvious fact of life?
Yes, I do. (See link for why you’re wrong)
ty webb: I just find it funny that you call republican southern states “racist” for adopting laws aimed at reducing the number of illegals(”those people”), yet you don’t call president obama racist for policies and practices that do the same(increasing deportation, increasing border patrol agents). Why the inconsistency?
First of all, you are missing my point if you thinkt he entire thing was about racism. It’s about THOSE people, gays and women and so on too, anyone who is somehow undesireable, be it because of racism, religious views, and other differences. The viewpoint of LEGISLATORS in these states is what I am focused on. Many pf which probably don’t have the views of their constituency, and probably follow the Paul Ryan viewpoint of “leadership is changing everyone else’s mind.”
Secondly, it’s not inconsistent. Border patrols, first of all, are intended to not let people in illegally, which is fine as long as it’s not through killing or maiming. The target of this bill is to make something illegal that wasn’t illegal before. There’s no “we’re just enforcing the federal law” here. And it unfairly affects businesses who are above board, and anyone currently aiming for citizenship that is just in the endless queue. And so on and so on. The bill doesn’t address the actual problem.
Finally, it’s also not inconsistent because, as I said, I’m sorry you think I agree with everything Obama does just because I disagree with many conservative policies.
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
1:36 pm
getalife, loved that clip.
And that observation that ducking thrown shoes may have helped W’s dexterity!
Finn, and why, though predictable, I have still never found a better song for the extremists out there on the far, far right wing. (Which is to say the GOP “base”!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMXNySE–68
getalife
May 24th, 2011
1:36 pm
AmVet,
It landed right in front of him and he sat there in la, la land.
Typical gop action.
Logical Dude
May 24th, 2011
1:37 pm
Paul “Jay made that point some pages back”
Ah, didn’t have time to read all pages today.
I guess he “looked the other way” when the I-9’s were filled out. So, I guess this means he didn’t “Illegally hire” the people, they just “illegally filled out paperwork”?
Sorry if I”m getting lost in the particular wordings.
Adam
May 24th, 2011
1:37 pm
It may have been easy to miss in my long post, but I’ll post again, just to be sure you guys get it:
Thulsa, and all those who think illegal immigration has been “ramping up”:
Illegal Immigration has dropped 67% since 2000
Bosch
May 24th, 2011
1:40 pm
Nice words Mr. Pitts:
Thing is, bigots do not usually stand up and say, “I am a bigot.” They hide this from themselves, much less from you or me. Indeed, Mel Gibson, last heard telling his girlfriend she would be raped by a pack of effing N-words, just said in an interview that he is not a racist.
In assessing bigotry, then, one learns to judge actions over words. And the actions of many Americans have screamed their discomfort with the idea that a black man is now the man. A computer abstract of his birth certificate, a perfectly ordinary document that satisfies passport requirements of the U.S. State Department does not satisfy Donald Trump? Give me a break.
Some have suggested that Obama’s opponents — like George W. Bush’s — are simply out to delegitimize his presidency. Wrong. They are actually out to delegitimize him.
I mean, we just saw: the president of the United States required to show his papers, like some brother caught driving too nice a car in too nice a neighborhood after dark. Presidenting while black, I suppose.
Nor does even that suffice to prove his bona fides, as diehards now challenge the validity of the new document and Trump turns his attention to supposed irregularities in Obama’s academic transcripts.
It never stops.
http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2011/05/presidenting_while_black_leona.html
Goldie
May 24th, 2011
1:40 pm
“Thus ends another episode of simple answers to simple questions.”
Dave R — you forgot to end with “from a very simple mind.”
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
1:40 pm
Also, wassup with these bizarre attempts by the desperately ignorant to portray the host as a liar?
Mama ain’t gonna like some of you kids…