Where illegal immigration, business and the law collide
“Look, I’m not a criminal. I don’t go around breaking the law, because for one thing I have way too much to lose. I do everything by the book. But if this law goes into effect, I’m telling you I’m not going to follow it. I’m just not. Because I can’t.”
I was sitting at a restaurant bar, talking to its owner about the potential impact of House Bill 87, the illegal immigration bill. He had contacted me, asking if I wanted to hear “the economic perspective of a small business owner,” with the understanding that he would remain anonymous.
“Some restaurant owners who publicly opposed this bill have received death threats, leading me to want to stay below the radar,” he explained in the email. On that basis, we agreed to meet.
If the law survives legal challenge and goes into effect, the owner said, he would face two choices: He could obey the law, lose a very big chunk of his ktichen staff and be forced out of business; or he could evade the law and save his business.
“I’ve got my future and my family’s future tied up in this,” he said, looking around at the bustling restaurant. “We’re doing good right now, but I’m in debt millions of dollars. And when I made that decision (to borrow the money), I didn’t have any idea that they’d be passing a law like this. My bank didn’t have any idea they’d be passing a law like this.”
“I don’t get it. They talk about jobs jobs jobs. The only two industries generating revenue and jobs for Georgia are hospitality and agriculture. And this is going to ruin them both. And it’s not just my kitchen staff who will lose their jobs. All of my front-of-the house workers [bartenders, waiters, hostesses], they’ll be out of work too. We’ve already lost the construction industry, and now we’re going to lose these too. Nobody I know is considering opening another restaurant in this state.”
In fact, if the construction industry was still booming as it was a few years ago, he said, there’s no way the Legislature would have passed HB 87. Back then, too many politically connected people were making too much money off illegal workers. And the hospitality and agriculture industries just don’t have the clout that developers once wielded.
Right now, he said, he does everything he can to abide by the law. He doesn’t pay anybody off the books, which means that everybody on his staff is paying taxes. “This claim that they don’t pay taxes — I don’t get that,” he says. “Yeah, they may not pay a lot in income taxes, but nobody else in those jobs does either [because they don't make a lot of money]. But they pay sales taxes, property taxes, unemployment taxes, and they’re paying a lot of money into Social Security that they’re never going to get back.”
“See that guy right there,” he said, nodding his head toward a nearby waiter. “He’s been in this country since he was five, when his parents brought him here. He graduated from high school here, and he probably speaks better English than I do. He doesn’t know a damn thing about Mexico. And they want to send him back? Back to what? Have you seen what’s going on in Mexico these days?”
“I’m trying to grow my business; I’m trying to help my people grow and build good lives. I don’t think the politicians know what they’re doing. I just don’t think they’ve thought this through.”
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780 comments Add your comment
Jefferson
May 24th, 2011
10:50 am
Pony up the tax money to solve the problem or just shut up. Solved the problem.
Contractor
May 24th, 2011
10:51 am
Jay,
Commenting on your post at 10:45… So you’re saying that it is ok for an illegal to come to this country illegally, then work illegally, give false identification, and just move on to the next job? How is that helping our country? American citizens get thrown in jail for identity theft or giving false identification, but an illegal doing it is just fine and dandy with you I see. And though you like to turn your cheek to it along with the other Liberals, what about when they resort to robbing, killing, drugs, joining gangs and making it unsafe for kids and citizens of this country to go outside and play?
jm
May 24th, 2011
10:52 am
shawny 10:48 – is there a restaurant bubble???? Oh dear.
blue_unicorn
May 24th, 2011
10:53 am
“Pony up the tax money to solve the problem or just shut up. Solved the problem.”
How ’bout we redraw our southern borders to match those in effect 1/1/1848? Sort of a Mexican ‘Right of Return’. As a bonus, we get rid of bankrupt California.
Howard
May 24th, 2011
10:54 am
Two words.
Crider Georgia.
The local poultry processing plant had fired most of the African-Americans who work there and replaced them with lower wage illegals. When ICE raided the plant and deported them the local African-American community were rehired and wages increased by $2.00 to $4.00 per hour over what had been paid the illegals.
The company did not go out of business, the world did not end and no bleeding-heart liberal was injured.
Bosch
May 24th, 2011
10:57 am
And though you like to turn your cheek to it along with the other Liberals, what about when they resort to robbing, killing, drugs, joining gangs and making it unsafe for kids and citizens of this country to go outside and play?
Oh geez, the “slippery slope” logic of the wingnut.
getalife
May 24th, 2011
10:57 am
Enter your comments here
Another opinion
May 24th, 2011
10:57 am
I also own a restaurant and have had no problem hiring front- and back-of-the-house staff who are 100% American citizens in need of a good job. I pay them well, have almost no turnover, and run a very successful business. I dont’ know what this guy’s problem is, but if the majority of his workers are here illegally, he deserves to close up shop. Shame on him for hiring illegals when the unemployment lines filled with deserving citizens are stretching out the door.
getalife
May 24th, 2011
10:59 am
It is a huge regulation for business.
Make up your minds about no regulations cons.
jm
May 24th, 2011
11:00 am
Jay, do you forget how many people were queued up for the McDonald’s jobs? This guy’s story is a significant amount of BS. He just prefers to break the law.
Mick
May 24th, 2011
11:01 am
another opinion
Thanks for shedding some light, hats off to you…
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
11:02 am
Taxpayer: too many Republicans out there that have been brainwashed from years of shock jock AM talk radio blather while those very people filling others heads with the trash talk rely on illegals for everything from their meals to their manicures
You may be on to something — Didn’t Rush get his drugs from his (illegal) housekeeper?
redneckbluedog: OMG…You people down there are dumber than I thought…and I set the bar pretty low after Sonny Perdue and Nathan Deal…..!!!!
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
11:03 am
Jay — “Joe Mama, the restaurant owner submits the required I-9 forms to federal authorities. It is the feds, not the business owner, who do the validation check. If and when the business is notified that the SSI number and name do not match, the business is then required to take action by seeking clarification from the employee. However, it often takes a year or more for such mismatches to be noticed by the feds, and once the employer is notified and then the employee is notified, the employee often just moves on to the next job.”
That agrees somewhat with my wife’s experience, and she does employer I-9 verifications as part of her job. Allow me to share some details.
There’s a preliminary check that can be performed by the employer to see if the prospective employee’s SS card is even *valid* at all. My wife does occasionally encounter an invalid number this way. Anyone who’s sporting an invalid card can’t legally be employed. She also occasionally sees people with valid SS cards that are prominently stamped NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT, but who expect to be able to get a job with them. Those folks don’t get a job, either.
If the card comes back valid from the instant check, it still has to be verified as you describe above, but my understanding is that it takes nowhere near as long for mismatch verifications to come back as you’ve been told. My wife tells me that it takes a few weeks, sometimes as long as 3-4 months, for mismatches to come back.
Mismatches don’t always indicate that an illegoso is trying to pull a fast one; my wife saw a *gender* mismatch once that caused the SS number to be flagged (the male employee involved was VERY upset when he found out that SSA considered him to be female). In another case, several siblings all applied for a job at the same store, and their *sequential* SSNs caused them all to be flagged (I know that’s possible, because my brother’s SS# only varies from mine by the last digit).
But in all cases, when a mismatch comes back, my wife calls the employee and their manager (her company is nationwide) and directs them to clock the employee out (if they’re hourly), send them home and not to let them come back to work unless and until they provide Federally-acceptable documentation to resolve the flag. In about 80+ percent of cases, the individual sent home simply never returns to work, much as you describe.
“However, the restaurant owner told me that he has noticed a recent increase in the pace of I-9 mismatch letters he is receiving from the feds.”
My wife’s employer has been audited twice in the last 2-3 years by ICE. They have really stepped up enforcement, which is why I’d caution that restaurant owner to cover his butt if he doesn’t want a bunch of Federal fines staring him in the face. My wife suspects that there’s a certain percentage of mismatches to matches that will trigger a visit from ICE auditors — e.g. if you have 10% mismatches out of the SSNs you submit, then you get audited — but the ICE guys won’t answer questions about that, even if she asks them to their faces.
If he’s got a good percentage of mismatches, I think he’s setting himself up for an eventual reckoning with the feds on this.
Contractor
May 24th, 2011
11:04 am
Bosch,
Not exactly sure were your problem is with my post, but we all know that illegals turn to these avenues. Not all, but some do, and it is broadcasting on TV shows every single day. It shouldn’t be a problem in the first place, so I don’t necessarily understand your problem. So please defend yourself a little more and clarify what exactly it is you are snarking at.
@@
May 24th, 2011
11:07 am
However, it often takes a year or more for such mismatches to be noticed by the feds
Speedy Gonzales, they ain’t.
Which one of jay’s left-wingers namejacked Peadawg at Kyle’s? You oughta be ashamed of yourself.
Don't Forget
May 24th, 2011
11:07 am
It’s important to listen to businessmen but with the knowledge that they like to “cry wolf” a lot.
I’m skeptical of his claims that this will shut down his business. Businessmen have a tendency to cry wolf when they feel threatened or inconvenienced. He is either mistaken or he has a failed business model and should shut down.
The most sympathetic figure in the story is the guy who was brought here by his parents when he was 5. Yes he was brought here legally but through no fault of his own, he is kind of a man without a country.
Culinary School Parent
May 24th, 2011
11:08 am
My son graduated from a very expensive culinary school here in Atlanta. It cost MORE than a 4 yr. college education. The average pay for kitchen work is $11.00 an hour. Often for less than 40 hrs a week. You tell me how that is fair. IF he can get a job because the kitchen help, being illegal and all that entails, will work for much less.
Maybe the guy you interviewed paid on the books but I don’t think that is the standard. Find some 2009 graduates of AIA or Cordon Bleu and interview them about what is happening in the kitchens of GA. There are a ton of educated citizens working in the kitchens for substandard pay with no hope of ever making a decent living because of undocumented workers. The guy you interviewed didn’t say he had a hard time finding workers he said he didn’t want to pay them more. It also sounds like there are several cases of identity theft if they are paying into SS.
USMC
May 24th, 2011
11:09 am
Check out the Cactus Car Wash on Piedmont.
I noticed that they changed over their staff from ILLEGAL ALIENS back to Americans and Cactus is doing just fine.
I might add that Cactus has employed quite a few more Low income black AND white AMERICANS since they stopped employing ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
11:10 am
USMC — “I noticed that they changed over their staff from ILLEGAL ALIENS back to Americans and Cactus is doing just fine.”
Just out of curiosity, how do you know that they were employing illegosos? Or are you just guessing/presuming?
USMC
May 24th, 2011
11:13 am
These Teenagers could fill any of the jobs left vacant by the ILLEGAL ALIENS…
Just look at these Buffoons in the video:
TEENS TRASH DUNKIN’ DONUTS…
http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/pack-of-teens-trash-dunkin-donuts-20110523-lgf
Mighy Righty
May 24th, 2011
11:16 am
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
10:36 am
If you don’t understand that every job an illegal takes is one job not available to an American, then you will not be able to understand the answer.
getalife
May 24th, 2011
11:18 am
Are you for no regulations or not cons?
Failed ideology.
USMC
May 24th, 2011
11:19 am
“Just out of curiosity, how do you know that they were employing illegosos? Or are you just guessing/presuming?”–Joe Mama
Porque, yo hablo poquito espanol y yo pregunto mucho gente que trabajen a los Cactus Car Wash; verdad.
Ellos hablan SI!
Jefferson
May 24th, 2011
11:21 am
If the pay was better, you couldn’t hire an illegal — so pay better.
Nancy Barrow
May 24th, 2011
11:21 am
I feel for the restaurant owner and the employees. For clarification, is his concern that the non-immigrant pool of workers is too small to fill the void if his current workers are deported? Or does it have to do with the quality of other workers or their willingness to work for comparable wages?
thomas
May 24th, 2011
11:21 am
getalife
May 24th, 2011
11:18 am
You asking about regulations or laws?
If the worker is here without documentaion, then they (the worker) has committed a crime.
Whatever the opposite of a con is,
Are you for or against the enforcement of our laws?
Are you for anarchy?
TaxPayer
May 24th, 2011
11:22 am
Now that those higher paying jobs are no longer available there are people just standing in line to work those minimum wage jobs that illegal immigrants were willing to take. So, the obvious fix is to get rid of the illegal immigrants now that they are taking the jobs that others need and maybe there will be a place for them again once higher paying jobs come back.
mm
May 24th, 2011
11:22 am
Pathetic how the cons campaigned about jobs, jobs, jobs, and the only thing they have done in the red states and in the US House is destroy jobs.
It’s very telling that the red states pay in the least taxes and take in the most handouts from the federal government.
jm
May 24th, 2011
11:23 am
Um, Jay. RE 1967 / Israel. Reid and Obama apparently not on the same page, or Reid is playing politics again.
-
The most powerful Democrat in Congress, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), on Monday night publicly rejected President Barack Obama’s decision to use a recent speech to lay out aspects of a potential peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians.
“The place where negotiating will happen must be at the negotiating table – and nowhere else,” Reid declared in a speech to an annual gathering in Washington of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). “Those negotiations … will not happen – and their terms will not be set – through speeches, or in the streets, or in the media.”
When the Senate leader added, “No one should set premature parameters about borders, about building, or about anything else,” the lights quickly came up on the vast audience and most in the crowd at the Washington Convention Center rose to their feet and applauded.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55560.html#ixzz1NHea96GV
Mighy Righty
May 24th, 2011
11:24 am
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
11:02 am
Taxpayer: too many Republicans out there that have been brainwashed from years of shock jock AM talk radio blather while those very people filling others heads with the trash talk rely on illegals for everything from their meals to their manicures
You may be on to something — Didn’t Rush get his drugs from his (illegal) housekeeper?
You hit the nail on the head. The resturant owner owing millions had me stumped. But your insight resolves the problem. The resturant ownwer is a drug dealer.
Themistocles (a.k.a. Left Wing Mgmt)
May 24th, 2011
11:25 am
Netanyahu beginning his address to Congress now
Joe
May 24th, 2011
11:26 am
The simple choice would be to hire help that’s here legally. With Georgia’s unemployment rate at all time highs it shouldn’t be hard to find help to work in a restaurant. I understand Jay that from a liberals perspective that this is all about votes. Not about equality or helping the poor down trodden. It’s about making illegal’s legal so they can vote for democrats. Driving a wedge between sane Americans and insane Americans is what liberals, especially the ones in the media do. A sane person believes that people should come here legally and work hard and obey our laws. An insane person believes people can just come and go as they please without repercussion as long as they vote democrap.
getalife
May 24th, 2011
11:26 am
thomas,
Answer the question con.
USMC
May 24th, 2011
11:26 am
So let’s hire ILLEGAL ALIENS to write for the AJC; they will write for $10 per hour and waive the health Insurance… Sounds like it is good for the “bottom line”.
We are sorry to hear that Jay Boiokman is either too lazy to work for the AJC or won’t fill the job at $10 per hour WITHOUT health insurance, but Ann Cox Chambers, who initially gave the job to Jay, can’t make the bottom line at Jay’s current inflated rate and benefits…
deegee
May 24th, 2011
11:27 am
There may be plenty of Americans that need work but that doesn’t mean that they are physically capable of performing the job. My county government replaced all of their hispanic road maintenance crew with good ole boys. I watched one obese good ole boy sitting on a guard rail, weed whacker in hand having some obvious physical distress. Look at the fat slobs that park in handicapped spots so they don’t have to walk 50 yards into the WalMart.
cosby smith
May 24th, 2011
11:27 am
Illegal is against the law…what is missing is all the folks who march and cry regarding slavery, demand minimum wage but then cry that illegals should be allowed into the country so they can work as very low paid workers for certain industries. Either you are against slavery or you support it. Personally, if the law was enforced to begin with, new laws would not have to be passed. The one thing the constitution does provide taht the Federal government to do is to protect the boarders, which it has failed to do.
Russ
May 24th, 2011
11:28 am
What part of illegal doesn’t everyoine understand? I have no problem with anyone coming to the USA to better their life if they do it the right way. The bs of this restruant going under because he will lose his workers says that many people should have seen that there was a possobility that he was using undocumanted workers and that they should have stopped eating at their meals from him.
Emmanuel Hall
May 24th, 2011
11:28 am
Mr. B, you probably already know this, but I’m not sure your bartender friend does. The hateful immigaration bill the right wing Republican Georgia and other similar legislatures passed or are attempting to pass, has nothing to do with border safety, American security, fairness; the one and only reason for this bigotry is so the right wing in this country can hold on to power.
The Republicans know full well that if given the opportunity to become citizens and voters, the new Americans support would not go to them.
There is an ugly effort across this country by Republicans to stall and hinder any voters they fear will not vote for them. I hope the Democrats get this and will begin to act accordingly.
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
11:29 am
Mighty @ 11.16, thanks for confirming that you couldn’t back up your BS.
jm
May 24th, 2011
11:29 am
Liberals are so ideologically inconsistent, that they make a caught fish on a boat deck look like a model of decisiveness. You guys (the liberals) are just a bunch of lilliputian John Kerrys….
thomas
May 24th, 2011
11:30 am
getalife
May 24th, 2011
11:26 am
Sorry not a con? Atleast not by the vague definition given by others on here.
What is your definition of a con?
I understand that a certain level of regulation is required to prevent abuses.
I know that doesn’t fit into your cookie cutter mold you have for everyone to fit in, but its reality.
Sohave you understood that this is not about regulation? It is about LAWS!
Why are you against the enforcement of laws? You do understand this is a law matter, not a regulation one?
Call the DNC and they will give you the revised talking points.
Devil's Advocate
May 24th, 2011
11:30 am
TaxPayer
May 24th, 2011
11:22 am
Now that those higher paying jobs are no longer available there are people just standing in line to work those minimum wage jobs that illegal immigrants were willing to take. So, the obvious fix is to get rid of the illegal immigrants now that they are taking the jobs that others need and maybe there will be a place for them again once higher paying jobs come back.
———————————————————————————————————-
O.o
Really? Maybe there will be a place for them again once higher paying jobs come back? So you’re part of the problem. You want the illegals here when it servers you best…
Dan
May 24th, 2011
11:30 am
Pretty sure if that was the CEO of a large publically traded corporation, Jay and other libs would be calling for his arrest for admitting he hires illegals.
St Simons - we're on Island time
May 24th, 2011
11:33 am
We’re all in this together.
You’re on your own.
One of these is a winning strategy. One is not.
Maybe if the cons pick the wrong one, they’ll go away.
jm
May 24th, 2011
11:34 am
Prediction: Obama is going to get crushed in 2012. Hard to know for sure. But a variety of items indicate this will be the case.
5/24 – ajc.com – Where illegal immigration, business and the law collide | Jay Bookman « GIRRC – Georgia Immigrant & Refugee Rights Coalition
May 24th, 2011
11:35 am
[...] 5/24 – ajc.com – Where illegal immigration, business and the law collide | Jay Bookman May 24, 2011 erikvoss Leave a comment Go to comments Where illegal immigration, business and the law collide | Jay Bookman. [...]
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
11:36 am
cry that illegals should be allowed into the country
shouldn’t you have at least one (1) example of someone here, anyone here, actually advocating for illegal entry into this country, when you post such a thing?
thomas
May 24th, 2011
11:36 am
St Simons – we’re on Island time
May 24th, 2011
11:33 am
You are aware that there are studies that show Republicans (cons) voluntarily give away more of their personal income to charity than their democrat counterparts?
So which one are you hoping the cons pick? The way they have been or that everyone is on their own?
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
11:40 am
USMC — “Porque, yo hablo poquito espanol y yo pregunto mucho gente que trabajen a los Cactus Car Wash; verdad.”
So you asked them and they told you?
One wonders why you didn’t patronize a different car wash. You know, maybe one with American employees.
AngryRedMarsWoman
May 24th, 2011
11:41 am
“he said that higher wages, and the higher prices he would have to charge as a result, would “break the model” and make his business unprofitable.”
Economics 101 – he has a bad business model. What if he were serving stray cats and dogs and calling it chicken? Employing 10 year olds to wash dishes for fifty cents a day? Still sympathetic to his business model? In this country we choose to have certain regulations on business – sometimes because it really is good for society as a whole. You cannot pick the ones you follow and develop a business model based on breaking laws to make a profit. Next time you are out somewhere think about how much it costs to have a fire suppression system – and be thankful that the business owner chooses to adhere to the law (or the gov’t makes him do it) and maybe raise drink prices a little bit to cover that cost rather than knock some off the drinks and hope there isn’t a fire. Yes, I know there is a difference between hiring illegal aliens and fire safety, but laws are laws and we crawl down a rabbit hole when we let people disregard the laws they don’t like or those which they feel are too burdensome for their particular situation.
Finn McCool
May 24th, 2011
11:42 am
They need a quota figure on how many illegals are given annual passes to work here so they can fill in on the jobs no everyday American in his/her right mind would consider doing. The employer would have to apply for the help – describe how many and why asnd they would have to pay the taxes on each dollar paid to the workers.
That way, you would know exactly who had workers and could more readily check the books if the taxes paid don’t seem realistic.
Themistocles (a.k.a. Left Wing Mgmt)
May 24th, 2011
11:42 am
Dan: “Pretty sure if that was the CEO of a large publically traded corporation, Jay and other libs would be calling for his arrest for admitting he hires illegals.”
And I’d be right with them.
That make me a “lib” ?
SPC
May 24th, 2011
11:43 am
If I recall, part of the Regan amnesty was a promise that the country wouldn’t make the same mistake again. Here we are again thanks to our political class of both parties.
LJ
May 24th, 2011
11:43 am
So sick of this. You want to live in American and have the American dream? Do it legally. Plain and simple. If I move to a foreign country then there are steps I will have to take to do so legally. It can be done. Stop being greedy and lazy and do it.
I’m a small business owner, too. What if I said I can’t afford to pay my taxes like this guy is saying he can’t afford to pay Americans? What would happen? It’s called a punishment, probably jail.
The people who are here illegally should be sent to their home country. Take a stand there and make it a better place. The people who hire illegally should be fined and penalized.
We all have to follow the laws, whether we agree or not. That’s the price we pay for voting.
Themistocles (a.k.a. Left Wing Mgmt)
May 24th, 2011
11:45 am
Dan: See I bet you’ve never given 5 minute’s time to reflecting on what a “lib” is. But I have.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
11:46 am
Thomas — “You are aware that there are studies that show Republicans (cons) voluntarily give away more of their personal income to charity than their democrat counterparts?”
I’d like to see a breakdown of exactly where that “charity” money goes. I don’t think that Republicans’ donations to PACs and political campaigns are quite the ‘charity’ that most people are thinking of.
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
11:47 am
Republicans (cons) voluntarily give away more of their personal income to charity
this again?
GOPers are somewhat more likely to belong to churches that either require or strongly encourage massive club membership fees (aka, “titheing.”) In Uncle Sam’s eyes, of course, this charitable contribution has the same weight as some Godless Librul contributing directly to (say) Doctors without Borders.
If such things make you feel morally superior, fine. Forgive me if I’m not terribly impressed, myself.
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
11:50 am
GLL, I know that 9:44 was in English, but perhaps you would be so kind as to decipher it for me? (grin)
Jerome at 9:47, well put. At least the confession in your last sentence. I’ll do you one better, cowboy. Come on down to the VAH with me and you can tell those vets there how to find employment, OK?
And J, this is one of the more stunningly dense “observations” I have ever read here – “…two bit, has been guitar player…” Turn off the talk radio, dude and share with me who you deem is one-bit, non-has-been guitar player!
LOLOL…
Mike
May 24th, 2011
11:51 am
The restaurant owner is a self-admitted liar. He says, he’s “always played it by the book.” Not true by his own admission as he knows his kitchen staff are illegal and it has been the law for decades that you have to prove citizenship or legal residence to work here. He has colluded in identity theft by his own admission, accepting fake social security numbers from his employees. Without people like him, deluding themselves that that they are “law-abiding” there would be no immigration problem. Were every restaurant complying with the law, the playing field would be level and Americans would have those jobs.
Canada knows. I was denied entry to Canada because I had no work permit allowing me to be there for a two-day job for the corporation I work for. Yet Canadian employees of the same company have no problem coming here for work-related tasks.
thomas
May 24th, 2011
11:52 am
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
11:47 am
never been to a church that requires membership fees sorry.
wouldn’t that hurt their non-profit status, if they required members to pay a fee? Is it the same for all members?
You got any type of research or proof to back that claim up, or you just broadcasting your opinion?
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
11:53 am
this is one of the more stunningly dense “observations” I have ever read here – “…two bit, has been guitar player…”
without looking it up, I suspect that “has-been” Carlos probably earns more per gig than most here do per month (and several, possibly, per year.)
Finn McCool
May 24th, 2011
11:53 am
Ya’ll can donate to the McCool Charity. I take checks!
TaxPayer
May 24th, 2011
11:54 am
So you’re part of the problem. You want the illegals here when it servers you best…
That is hardly what I said.
St Simons - we're on Island time
May 24th, 2011
11:55 am
thomas – yes, in ancient Rome, patronage was big.
but twisty, talky points won’t stop that freight train comin over the hill
Nan
May 24th, 2011
11:56 am
No sympathy whatsoever for the restaurant owner. Is he so stupid that he thinks his business is the only one that might have to raise wages? No — they all will, so it’s still going to be an equal playing field when it comes to labor costs. Granted, he may have to raise prices on the menu to compensate, but so will everyone else he’s competing with.
thomas
May 24th, 2011
11:57 am
St Simons – we’re on Island time
May 24th, 2011
11:33 am
“We’re all in this together.
You’re on your own.
One of these is a winning strategy. One is not.
Maybe if the cons pick the wrong one, they’ll go away.”
After that you seriously want to talk about talking points?
Wow hypocricy never amazes me.
Finn McCool
May 24th, 2011
11:58 am
Ok, I’m a liberal but also a middle class worker. I say these laws are good but only if they go after the businesses and individuals who hire them – otherwise, you are just persecuting a group of people who really want to work and are willing to work their tails off.
While the price of produce and eating out will more than likely go up, so should wages in the lower spectrum.
getalife
May 24th, 2011
12:02 pm
So cons flipped flopped on regulations for business like they do on all their ideology.
Failed ideology like I said.
whig party.
Mike
May 24th, 2011
12:03 pm
Joe Mama, as k and you shall receive.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
12:05 pm
Off topic, but I think it’s something we can all get behind, regardless of political ideology–
the yankees suck (cash).
In the far North Bronx, near the Yonkers border, right fielder Stephan Alamies of the All Hallows High School varsity baseball team is batting against Mount Saint Michael. This is a home game for All Hallows–but they’re playing on their opponents’ field. They drove 45 minutes by bus to get here. Coach Edgardo Guttierez says the team used to play four blocks from school.
“Unfortunately, the Yankees built their parking lot on the field that we used to practice on,” he said.
The new Yankee Stadium is smaller than the old one. But when the team insisted in 2006 that it needed 2,000 extra parking spots, the New York City Industrial Development Agency issued 237 million dollars in tax exempt bonds for an expanded parking system–paving over the neighborhood’s only regulation baseball diamonds to do it.
The Yankees insisted from the beginning that they needed 9,000 parking spots, 2,000 more than before. They even made it a legal condition for not moving out of the Bronx.
[...]
But so few Yankee fans are parking at eleven garages and lots around the new stadium that the company managing them may soon default on $237 million in tax exempt bonds used to build them. In an effort to stave off collapse, the garages recently hiked prices to $35 a game. But as of last month, they were two thirds empty on game days.
According to public documents and two separate analyses, the Bronx Parking Development company owes the city $17 million in back rent and other payments. The city is paying $195 million to replace the parkland it gave to the Yankees. And New York State spent $70 million to build Parking Garage B. That’s where Derek Jeter and his fellow players park, along with VIP ticket holders. The garage is not open to the public, and allows those who use it to enter directly into the stadium.
Paulo977
May 24th, 2011
12:06 pm
Jay
“But they pay sales taxes, property taxes, unemployment taxes, and they’re paying a lot of money into Social Security that they’re never going to get back.”
This is something anti-illegal bigots don’tknow about,or do they?
Jefferson
May 24th, 2011
12:07 pm
Just like in the housing mess, the neocons blame the wrong people. Blame the employer and the lender, you can’t blame someone for trying to get ahead in the rat race, everything was fine until it gets into their pockets.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
12:08 pm
Mike — “Joe Mama, as k and you shall receive.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html”
Nope. I don’t think you read this before you posted it. There’s absolutely nowhere in there that breaks down where these supposed charitable donations are going.
Now, if someone could link to one of the actual *studies* themselves, wherein their terms are operationalized and they present definitions of what constitutes a “charity” for purposes of the study, I’d be real interested in that. But frankly, I strongly suspect that “charity,” for the purposes of these studies, equals ’something you can write off on your taxes,’ not necessarily something that actually helps those in need.
Gordon
May 24th, 2011
12:08 pm
I wonder how many businesses in California say the same thing about the burdensome environmental laws there. Of course, breaking the law in that case is bad because liberals support it. When we choose which laws we will obey, we defeat the whole purpose of laws. The real problem here is that the American standard of living is running far ahead of what is actually produced to support it. The legal labor that would replace the illegal labor is priced too high. But it must be priced that high to pay the taxes, drive the cars, and live in the homes that we all have come to expect.
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
12:08 pm
From that realclearpolitics article: “A society that has more justice is a society that needs less charity.” ~Ralph Nader
Preach it Ralph. And keep on speaking truth to power. You have done more to help the working American family than all of these politicians put together…
Rightwing Troll
May 24th, 2011
12:09 pm
“To Santana- kiss my arse for blatantly suggesting the great American work ethic is gone. You folks like Amvet need to sign off your computers and go meet a veteran in a wheel chair or an autistic adult who simply wants to work.
Incredibly embarrasing and insulting.”
Too bad it’s true. I’ve spent 8 years running a business and I’ve had my share of skilled and semi skilled American workers through here.
It’s hard to get anything done with a cell phone stuck to your ear, even harder when both your thumbs are occupied by texting.
And when you average a 3 day workweek because of the pressures of your personal life… well, that makes it even more importatnt that you put the cell phone down and get some work done.
Mick
May 24th, 2011
12:11 pm
Who cares what george will says, what do you do in terms of charity?
Southern Comfort
May 24th, 2011
12:11 pm
dB
Regardless to that article, I always say the Yankees suck!!!!
Don't Forget
May 24th, 2011
12:13 pm
Pretty good speech by Netanyahu so far. Wonder how the pundits will spin it so we can fight about it and call names?
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
12:14 pm
While the price of produce and eating out will more than likely go up, so should wages in the lower spectrum.
For the record, I’ve always been more than happy to pay more in order to ensure fair pay for fair work, whether it’s something produced here or overseas.
Ultimately the answer isn’t some Band-Aid legislative measure that applies some pressure on employers and some on employees but (duh) a healthy worldwide economy where people have decent standards of living paid for by honest work, wherever they live.
Anything we do, foreign policy-wise, that doesn’t advance this goal, is just making us all a lot more economically vulnerable in the long term. I don’t know why that’s so hard for so many to grasp.
(You may say I’m a dreamer. But I’m not the only one.)
Mighy Righty
May 24th, 2011
12:15 pm
Netanyahu smacks down Obama to standing ovations 56 times by Democrats as well as Republicans.
deegee
May 24th, 2011
12:15 pm
HAHAHAHAHA!, Rightwing Troll. Sampling below of some of the lame excuses for why I didn’t come to work yesterday.
My old lady ran the car out of gas, my old man didn’t come home last night, I had to see my PO, I had to bail my old man/old lady out of jail, my kid got locked up; and the # 1 excuse for why I didn’t come to work yesterday – I had to go to the hospital for some testes.
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
12:16 pm
never been to a church that requires membership fees sorry.
requires? of course not. Strongly suggests? Now that’s another story.
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
12:17 pm
Yankee haters make me laugh!
Seriously guys, I have written for a LONG time that the business of baseball is capricious and perverse. From Single A ball all the way up to the great cathedrals of the game – Fenway, Wrigley and Yankee Stadium.
I have said that it is more than ironic that the National Pastime is arguably one of the greatest examples of communism in our land. Read in detail about the antitrust exemption therein and you’ll be hard pressed NOT to agree.
And yes the Bronx Bombers may be the poster boys for this, but don’t kid yourselves. Multiply by thirty plus other American cities, to some great degree or another, and the truth begins to emerge.
A dirty business of billionaires and millionaires using the corporate takeover of America to keep on keeping on…
Mick
May 24th, 2011
12:17 pm
Bibi is your man? Move to israel and see if you like it….
jm
May 24th, 2011
12:17 pm
interesting read
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/05/20/on-the-death-of-osama-bin-laden%E2%80%94and-the-secret-life-of-the-elite-navy-seals-who-killed-him/
Adam
May 24th, 2011
12:18 pm
So I see the responses to my post by people who disagree were:
1) “You’re racist for pointing out racist elements!”
and 2) People who didn’t read the part of the article about how the people being targeted are actually paying taxes and into systems that they will never be able to use.
Well done, folks.
Jay
May 24th, 2011
12:18 pm
I had to go to the hospital for some testes.
Really? That’s a common excuse?
Midori
May 24th, 2011
12:20 pm
jm is so ideologically inconsistent, that it makes a caught fish on a boat deck look like a model of decisiveness. It is just a bunch of crap
AmVet
May 24th, 2011
12:21 pm
“never been to a church that requires membership fees sorry.”
thomas, do the Sammy Davis and convert.
Then go and check into joining a synagogue.
No game with the Hebes. You gotta pay to play.
Part of that Judeo-Christian thingie…
jm
May 24th, 2011
12:21 pm
Midori’s 12:20 – “not an actual rebuttal”
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
12:22 pm
AmVet @ 12.17, I certainly didn’t mean to imply that the Steinbrenner clan were the only guilty party in the Field of Schemes that plagues MLB (and let’s face it, virtually every other mass-marketed athletic endeavor.)
But there was something about the line in that story—“The city is paying $195 million to replace the parkland it gave to the Yankees.” – that really stuck in my craw. The Bronx kids STILL don’t have a friggin’ ballpark.
johnny elkins
May 24th, 2011
12:23 pm
Who did those jobs before foriegners who dont speak our language and are in our country ILLEGALY did them ?
I would like to apply at this establishment. I will work for what is given to ILLEGALS and when I am there on time every day giving 110 % who will this rat cry to then ?
Its not the money ! Americans WILL do these jobs !! Again, who did them before ? Its the power these rats hold on scared little cowards who fled their cess-pool existence so they can benefit from the sacrifice so many gave the ultimate for. Americans WILL do these jobs… but we wont do them being treated like second class criminals which is what these invaders are.
Bring it on business owners ! I will match work ethics with anyone and I will honor our customers and create return customers while speaking english and enjoying the benefits our culture has bestowed on us ! Will you let me do it without treating me like a slave and a second class citizen ? If you will where is the problem ? The problem is in your own ego and your un-patriotic greed !
The business owner in this piece is nothing but a rat who would rather pay an ILLEGAL what an American would work for just to placate his big-shot ego and his total lack of decency !
St Simons - we're on Island time
May 24th, 2011
12:23 pm
I’m sure the Truth is just a talky point to cons
Whigs, and not soon enough
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
12:23 pm
Really? That’s a common excuse?
Sure. The ruling class overlords take them away, you see…
andygrdzki
May 24th, 2011
12:24 pm
First, illegal’s are not refugees……
Current rate of unemployment in Mexico: The unemployment rate in Mexico was last reported at 4.61 percent in March of 2011. From 2000 until 2010, Mexico’s Unemployment Rate averaged 3.45 percent reaching an historical high of 5.93 percent in May of 2009 and a record low of 2.22 percent in November of 2002. Source: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/mexico/unemployment-rate
BeeJay
May 24th, 2011
12:24 pm
It was against the law then and it’s against the law now. The state is only enforcing the federal law that the feds will not enforce. The fact that all or most authorities have looked the other way for many years does not excuse illegal behavior, whether you are the person who isn’t supposed to be living here and benefitting from a citizen’s rights or the employer who decided to hire someone who he isn’t supposed to hire in the first place. I have no sympathy. Had you done it right the first time, you would not be in the fix you are in. So typical, to blame someone else. I don’t CARE if your precious employee knows anything about Mexico or not. His parents KNOW they are illegal, know HE is illegal, and yet chose to stay, breaking the law. Let’s hold THEM accountable, not the lawmakers who are simply enforcing existing law. We have really turned things around. For the interviewed restaurant owner, you’ll lose your entire kitchen staff because you shouldn’t have hired them in the first place; and you can replace them with legal citizens. For Mr. Bookman, go take your song and dance somewhere else.
Independent
May 24th, 2011
12:24 pm
There is an easy solution to the restaurant owner’s problem – hire Americans and double the prices on your food. If every restaurant has to do that, then every restaurant can double their prices. If you want to eat out, you will just pay double. But don’t worry about people eating at home, because the chickens, vegetables, and onions they would fix at home also would have doubled in price.
williebkind
May 24th, 2011
12:24 pm
Well, Jay you go back and tell that restaurant owner he now feels what we moonshiners felt. It was legal to make moonshine then it was illegal then it was legal and finally it was illegal again. With government getting in the way how can man provide for his family. Of course the illegal aliens were mostly from Irish decent but that was quickly bred out of them. I guess the man has learned not base a business on CHEAP labor.
Jay
May 24th, 2011
12:24 pm
I’d say that was an accurate assessment, Mighty.