Where illegal immigration, business and the law collide
“Look, I’m not a criminal. I don’t go around breaking the law, because for one thing I have way too much to lose. I do everything by the book. But if this law goes into effect, I’m telling you I’m not going to follow it. I’m just not. Because I can’t.”
I was sitting at a restaurant bar, talking to its owner about the potential impact of House Bill 87, the illegal immigration bill. He had contacted me, asking if I wanted to hear “the economic perspective of a small business owner,” with the understanding that he would remain anonymous.
“Some restaurant owners who publicly opposed this bill have received death threats, leading me to want to stay below the radar,” he explained in the email. On that basis, we agreed to meet.
If the law survives legal challenge and goes into effect, the owner said, he would face two choices: He could obey the law, lose a very big chunk of his ktichen staff and be forced out of business; or he could evade the law and save his business.
“I’ve got my future and my family’s future tied up in this,” he said, looking around at the bustling restaurant. “We’re doing good right now, but I’m in debt millions of dollars. And when I made that decision (to borrow the money), I didn’t have any idea that they’d be passing a law like this. My bank didn’t have any idea they’d be passing a law like this.”
“I don’t get it. They talk about jobs jobs jobs. The only two industries generating revenue and jobs for Georgia are hospitality and agriculture. And this is going to ruin them both. And it’s not just my kitchen staff who will lose their jobs. All of my front-of-the house workers [bartenders, waiters, hostesses], they’ll be out of work too. We’ve already lost the construction industry, and now we’re going to lose these too. Nobody I know is considering opening another restaurant in this state.”
In fact, if the construction industry was still booming as it was a few years ago, he said, there’s no way the Legislature would have passed HB 87. Back then, too many politically connected people were making too much money off illegal workers. And the hospitality and agriculture industries just don’t have the clout that developers once wielded.
Right now, he said, he does everything he can to abide by the law. He doesn’t pay anybody off the books, which means that everybody on his staff is paying taxes. “This claim that they don’t pay taxes — I don’t get that,” he says. “Yeah, they may not pay a lot in income taxes, but nobody else in those jobs does either [because they don't make a lot of money]. But they pay sales taxes, property taxes, unemployment taxes, and they’re paying a lot of money into Social Security that they’re never going to get back.”
“See that guy right there,” he said, nodding his head toward a nearby waiter. “He’s been in this country since he was five, when his parents brought him here. He graduated from high school here, and he probably speaks better English than I do. He doesn’t know a damn thing about Mexico. And they want to send him back? Back to what? Have you seen what’s going on in Mexico these days?”
“I’m trying to grow my business; I’m trying to help my people grow and build good lives. I don’t think the politicians know what they’re doing. I just don’t think they’ve thought this through.”
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780 comments Add your comment
Jerome
May 24th, 2011
9:47 am
“I would invite all Latin people to do nothing for about two weeks so you can see who really, really is running the economy,” Santana said. “Who cleans the sheets? Who cleans the toilets? Who babysits?
To Santana- kiss my arse for blatantly suggesting the great American work ethic is gone. You folks like Amvet need to sign off your computers and go meet a veteran in a wheel chair or an autistic adult who simply wants to work.
Incredibly embarrasing and insulting.
Jerome
May 24th, 2011
9:48 am
One has to question the intelligence level of those who listen to two bit, has been guitar players for guidance on issues.
Common Sense
May 24th, 2011
9:49 am
Good Little Liberal,
George Bush is the culprit for the three minimum wage increases that began as the employment in this nation peaked.
Coincidence? No.
http://www.nolanchart.com/article5985_Have_We_Forgotten_the_Minimum_Wage.html
Good little liberal
May 24th, 2011
9:50 am
JAy
So let’s be clear about what you want.
Democrats took over Congress and the first thing they did was raise the minimum wage. But now you support businesses that now pay slave labor wages, breaking those minimum wage laws.
MAKE UP YOUR MIND!
Steve
May 24th, 2011
9:50 am
So Jay – if following the health codes and OSHA requirements would make this restaurant unprofitable would it be OK to ignore those rules?
Is the owner also ignoring overtime rules? Where do you draw the line as to where you can break the rules?
Also – if this restaurant goes out of business the net effect will be zero. It is not like people will stop eating…especially in Atlanta.
Aquagirl
May 24th, 2011
9:51 am
GLL, if you wander over to the Get Schooled blog, you’ll see why kids don’t mow lawns and wash dishes anymore. And it’s not because there are no jobs. Try running a business with employees who are chronically late, curse out their employer, or simply fail to show up. Yeah, that’ll work.
Jay
May 24th, 2011
9:51 am
GLL, where do you get this notion that sub-minimum wages are being paid?
Paul
May 24th, 2011
9:51 am
Peadawg
Namecalling and a dismissal. Routine response for someone who can’t engage on a thoughtful leve.
My original post said it you questioned the restaurant owner’s credibility.
Before you call others dumb, you may want to look up the word ‘credibility.’
md
May 24th, 2011
9:52 am
“Yeah this guy’s just a crazy lib… or you just don’t know ANYTHING about starting and running a small business…”
I know a great deal about running a small business, and have yet to see one single person explain why this law will cause this guy to suddenly go belly up………where is the cost shift/burden?
ty webb
May 24th, 2011
9:52 am
Blue unicorn,
(re: your 9:45)Cheers! Bravo!
THE TRUTH
May 24th, 2011
9:52 am
Illegal is illegal is illegal.
Peadawg
May 24th, 2011
9:52 am
“Why would replacing one employee with another cause this guy to go belly up????
Come on Jay, please explain…….or is this just fear mongering from your ’side”?
My guess is it’s fear mongering from Jay.
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
9:52 am
Pdawg: You’ve been here for as long as I have, Debbi. I’m not going to go back through Jay’s archives for you.
Reiterating your position doesn’t require you to go back through archives. It just requires courage.
Mary Elizabeth
May 24th, 2011
9:52 am
DebbieDoRight @ 9:37
Thanks, Debbie. I will. I have no choice, you see. My great-grandfather was an ordained Baptist minister and I inherited his DNA – pretty strongly.
jm
May 24th, 2011
9:53 am
If I may suggest an alternative route of discussion on this, in particular regarding this quote.
“Have you seen what’s going on in Mexico these days?”
There is no doubt Mexico is an unholy mess these days due to the drug cartels. Anyone with any semblance of compassion wouldn’t want to send someone back there. That said, I think it is ok to consider giving most of the illegal immigrants that are here permanent work visas in conjunction with a payment of penalty (not onerous). However, I don’t think it is fair to permit people who are breaking the law out of the gate (either due to their parents actions or their own) to get in line for citizenship.
Obviously this carries the risk of creating “a permanent underclass” of people with work visas but not citizenship. And I don’t like this either. So I put it to the “blog”, how do you have compassion for people who want to work hard, bring them into the workplace system legally, but without trampling on the rights of those who earned their citizenship the hard way (or from being in the lucky sperm club), while also not creating a permanent “underclass” of sorts?
For the record, I’m not absolutely certain of the “underclass” issue, but it is a risk.
Mary Elizabeth
May 24th, 2011
9:53 am
Mighty Righty @ 9:43
Explain yourself, please.
Good little liberal
May 24th, 2011
9:54 am
Aquagirl
I have run a business since 1991 and my son mowed yards and delivered papers.
So please explain why you want a slave underclass in this country.
Did you support the raising of the minimum when when the Dims took over Congress?
But now you say that it destroys businesses. MAKE UP YOUR MIND. You guys are destroying my country!!
md
May 24th, 2011
9:55 am
“GLL, where do you get this notion that sub-minimum wages are being paid?”
Maybe because he/you state this bill will detrimentally affect his business……..how?
Where is the monetary shift coming from if he is paying minimum wage??
Common Sense
May 24th, 2011
9:55 am
“I know a great deal about running a small business, and have yet to see one single person explain why this law will cause this guy to suddenly go belly up………where is the cost shift/burden?”
He is already going belly up. He just refuses to acknowledge it.
kayaker 71
May 24th, 2011
9:56 am
Bad choices made in life are just not someone elses fault. Taking advantage of the fact that you can hire illegals to improve your profit margin and then saying if they don’t continue to work, it’s the fault of those who want to enforce the law, that his business will go under. That’s amazing logic even for a liberal.
Good little liberal
May 24th, 2011
9:56 am
JAy
If legal wages are being paid, perhaps hiring AMERICANS would be a better idea.
Art Thomas
May 24th, 2011
9:56 am
Jay since you advocate helping out the poor illegals and that law doesnt really matter I can assume that this owner also violates health conditions / law by the Food and Drug administration forcing to be in compliance with health codes? unlawful businesses tend to also vialoate other laws Id taxes health food cleanliness rodents etc .. this fact was underscored to me when drove by a Resturant in Conyers where 2 ambulances were parked out front and 2 patrons were visibly throwing up in the parking lot.
You can be assured I do not patronize any of these low class burger / taco or unknown food items served at these strip mall flleabags that cater to the illegal market… oh by the way these are usually located next to the nail salons and massage parlor areas.. go for an illegal food and then an illegal rubdown. would be a good topic for one of your scathingly brilliant articles .!!
Peadawg
May 24th, 2011
9:57 am
“My original post said it you questioned the restaurant owner’s credibility.” – No you’re original post was to someone else. But, instead of admitting you misquoted me and moving on…you tried to question me on things I never said.
Now, if you would like to direct a question to me on something *I* said, please go right ahead.
Good little liberal
May 24th, 2011
9:58 am
md
Liberals see an issue. they have no clue as to the actual problem. they just see another way to demonize Republicans.
md
May 24th, 2011
9:58 am
“Try running a business with employees who are chronically late, curse out their employer, or simply fail to show up. Yeah, that’ll work.”
Hmmm…….Mickey D’s has been working within that parameter for eons…….and still making tons of money…………..
Mighy Righty
May 24th, 2011
9:58 am
Paul
May 24th, 2011
9:47 am
Mighty Righty
The issue was not about health care reform passing.
The issue was about who killed the proposal, as part of the reform package, to allow undocumented workers to buy health insurance with no subsidies.
Paul—Democrats controlled the House of Representives, the Senate and the White House when the so called health care bill passed. Republicans had no input. Republicans couldn’t stop or amend anything. The bill is 100% Democrat for good or bad. I think its bad, many think its good. But, your implying Republicans did something to the bill is uniformed.
Poor Paul, just won’t believe me because I am a Republican. Would one of you Democrats please explain to Paul that Repubicans had nothing to do with Obamacare.
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
9:59 am
Jerome: To Santana- kiss my arse for blatantly suggesting the great American work ethic is gone.
Jerome’s in the house!! I said Jerome’s in the house!!
PS: I couldn’t resist. You have to be the only person I’ve ever “talked” to named Jerome!!
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
9:59 am
Let’s see, a building in a good retail area will run you 800,000.00 to a couple mil
I’m really kind of shocked that the trollettes here, who constantly fall prey to the seductive murmurings of political hacks who promise to “run Gubmint like a binness!”, apparently couldn’t connect those dots themselves.
(I wasn’t going to say anything because it’s shooting fish in a barrel, but jeez.)
ty webb
May 24th, 2011
10:00 am
“What’s next, feeling sorry for a child molester, rapist, murderer?”
no, they just give them oscars.
pat
May 24th, 2011
10:00 am
Sooo, it’s ok and moral to hire illegals under pay them and over work them. These business owners want to keep them because they are cheap labor and they can pay them below the legal limit. It’s time to shut these businesses down. If you cannot run your business with out abusing illegals to do it, you deserve to go out of business.
Businesses who knowingly and willingly hire illegals should be shut down. It’s one step removed from slavery and I thought we were all against that. Aparently, liberals really aren’t.
pat
May 24th, 2011
10:00 am
I hope this restaurant owner gets shut down. He’s is a first class jerk and a slave master. Not only shut down, but ass in prison.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
May 24th, 2011
10:00 am
30 years ago anyone writing commentary in the media sympathetic to a business owner complaining about being restricted by law from hiring illegals would be ignored and written off as a loon. Today it’s not uncommon for someone on the left to criticize laws that protect American sovereignty and make it unlawful to knowingly hire illegal aliens. Goes to show how far we’ve fallen when we have those who place ideology ahead of our national security. The far left is still only a 20% minority but the majority has been allowing them to ruin this country from within for far too long.
Contractor
May 24th, 2011
10:01 am
The bank probably didn’t know he was hiring illegal aliens either. Him borrowing the money was a choice he made, and he should have realized that times change, as well as policies, and laws change as well, so he should have thought a little into the future as well. It is not just a one way street where all of the blame falls on the politicians, but this guy should have taken every aspect into account before he “borrowed the money”. If he wants to break the law and put his family at risk even more, then go ahead, and if he doesn’t and wants to do it right, go hire legal citizens that are willing to accept minimum wage to work. Sounds like a pretty simple fix to me. Love how you try and discredit the Immigration Law there Bookman by getting the opinion of a law breaker that admits he will break the law. I guess you Liberals will always have a soft heart for law breakers. What’s next, feeling sorry for a child molester, rapist, murderer?
BW
May 24th, 2011
10:02 am
I apologize if I seem callous or crass, but I have no sympathy for this business owner. If he cannot operate a sound business within the confines of local, state, or federal regulations, then he should consider a new line of work.
“I didn’t have any idea that they’d be passing a law like this. My bank didn’t have any idea they’d be passing a law like this.”
Hogwash. That’s business. The ability to address and handle changes in scope is necessary for success.
On this accord, how will he handle the changes in healthcare. “Geee, I didn’t know they were going to pass a law.” Is he going to request a waiver or does he not offer healthcare options? I would guess the latter given his payrollees.
As many have said, I have zero doubt that he will be able to find qualified documented employees. If not, perhaps it is time to find a new profession.
godless heathen
May 24th, 2011
10:03 am
Businessman: I don’t hire illegals but if this new law passes that will prevent me from hiring illegals, it will put me out of business.
Contractor
May 24th, 2011
10:03 am
Bookman, one other thing… Is this restaurant owner not taking advantage of the illegals by paying them less for their services? What about equal compensation since you are so against them being considered un-equals? He wouldn’t be all in a tiff if he wasn’t somehow short changing them, and making money off their lower wages. He is more worried about losing his sweat shop labor, that he could care less about them, but is being selfish and only caring about himself. Glad you decided to take the side of this moron. Keep on throwing these lame articles out, because you will be verbally destroyed by the people making comments on this blog now that Tucker isn’t around as much anymore.
Aquagirl
May 24th, 2011
10:04 am
GLL–I don’t want a slave underclass, I think we should–gasp–let those people work legally.
Good for your son. You let him spend his formative years undermining America by delivering left wing liberal newspapers?
Good little liberal
May 24th, 2011
10:05 am
Have fun guys.
I HAVE to go to work.
And libs: for once support AMERICANS. We need the jobs that are being given to this slave underclass that you guys so desperately want.
Do something positive. Find a Mexican National and help them become a US citizen. My church has helped dozens. Maybe your liberal organizations could consider doing that instead of always attacking conservatives.
And for God’s sake: START THINKING!!!!
Bob
May 24th, 2011
10:06 am
Hey, the business owner will be able to hire unemployed American citizens. This is great news. And if he continues to employ illegals, throw him in prison for a couple of years.
Cut off the money, and the illegals will self-deport. Go after the businesses that hire them.
Do I get to choose what laws I want to follow like the illegals?
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
10:07 am
Aquagirl: Good for your son. You let him spend his formative years undermining America by delivering left wing liberal newspapers?
He doused him with holy water everyday afterwards. Just to be sure……….
Mary Elizabeth
May 24th, 2011
10:07 am
JAY, perhaps you can ask Mighty Righty why he juxtapositioned your sentence regarding “death threats” with my “not buying any bridges”? Point being? See below.
————————————————————————————————————
May 24th, 2011
9:43 am
Mary Elizabeth
May 24th, 2011
9:22 am
Two lines in the article stand out to me:
(1) “Some restaurant owners who publicly opposed this bill have received death threats, leading me to want to stay below the radar.”
Mary, don’t buy any bridges.
jt
May 24th, 2011
10:07 am
Jay -
I was being sarcastic……………..I guess I need to work on those skills.(i still give them history lessons though)(our Stonewall Jackson would have got along with their PonchoVilla).
.
If a person is in Georgia…………already……………I don’t give a dang.
.
It is a total failure on the Fed’s part.(imagine that?)
Like local law enforcement wanting pharmacies to keep tabs on prescrip drug buyers, scrap metal dealers wanting them to keep tabs on sellers, etc……………………etc…………..
the feds are only wanting CITIZENS to do what WE pay THEM to do.
It is called a dysfunctional corrupt centralized authority…………………we have much to learn from our countries to the south on how to deal with this…………………….Ignore them.
And in closing…..to lose respect of our Mexican friends………..try mixing a top-shelf Tequila with……………anything.Take it straight or don’t sully the experience.
Mezcal is for mixing.
To them…………..it would be like us mixing a 100 year-old single malt scotch with 7-up.
.
You probably already know this considering all of the bars that you stay in.(doing interveiws and stuff).
.
Themistocles (a.k.a. Left Wing Mgmt)
May 24th, 2011
10:08 am
GLL: “Liberals see an issue. they have no clue as to the actual problem. they just see another way to demonize Republicans.”
Again, from this statement it seems you’re equating “liberal” with anyone who takes a critical view of GOP policies.
Good little liberal
May 24th, 2011
10:08 am
Aquagirl
I would like to see Americans working legally. Perhaps if we didn’t have a welfare system that encouraged participation, more people would be willing to work.
BTW. Do you know a Mexican National that you could help to become a citizen? if not: FIND ONE.
Stop claiming to be a do-gooder and actually go do something good.
pat
May 24th, 2011
10:09 am
Oh GLL, Liberals don’t help people, they just whine how the government should do their dirty work for them. Help an illegal? Oh no, the government shoudld do that! Help an unemployed work find a job? Oh no, it’s the governments job. Provide shelter and housing for the poor? Oh hell no. We should tax people who make money more and have the government to provide housing.
Ever seen a liberal charity organization? I haven’t.
Good little liberal
May 24th, 2011
10:10 am
DebbieDoRight
Has any organization that you belong done ANYTHING to help people become citizens?
Doggone/GA
May 24th, 2011
10:10 am
“The Southern Republican Run States are full of legislators that want all THOSE people gone”
Personally…I don’t think they do. They just want a certain segment of the voters to THINK they do.
Themistocles (a.k.a. Left Wing Mgmt)
May 24th, 2011
10:11 am
GLL: “And libs: for once support AMERICANS. We need the jobs that are being given to this slave underclass that you guys so desperately want.”
Sounds good, and I’m all for thinking, but that requires that we face up to these pesky, inconvenient details of labor law such as minimum wage, illegal HIRING practices (as opposed to getting hire illegally), etc., which I’m guessing the GOP doesn’t really want to take to close a look at. (And in fairness, the Democrats don’t either, but then they aren’t out there passing draconian anti-immigration laws either.)
Am I right?
MPercy
May 24th, 2011
10:12 am
While it is certainly true that many of the illegal aliens have been in this country for some time, working hard and trying to be a respectable part of the community. But the fact remains that they are constantly violating any number of laws and an amnesty for illegal aliens implicitly forgives these violations. If I violated the same laws, I’d be fined thousands of dollars and put into prison for several years. But many people (and politicians) seem to want to grant them eventual citizenship and all the benefits thereof instead.
First they knowingly and with forethought violate any of several immigration laws when they enter this country: they come without visas, they do not come through a legal port-of-entry, they bypass customs, they are not registered and fingerprinted as required by Title 8 of Code of Federal Regulations (8 CFR). That is, there is little or no presumption of lawful admission as required by 8 CFR.
Once they are here, they are likely to continue to violate other laws. Fraudulent papers are used to obtain work. This may include Social Security numbers and related documentation, falsified work visas, and so on. In this case, it seems that Title 18 Section 1028 “Fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents, authentication features, and information” should come into play.
If they bypass the fraudulent paperwork and simply work for cash “under-the-table” they are certainly involved in some level of tax evasion. In this country, even people who earn income by illegal means are required by the Internal Revenue Code to report this income when filing annual tax returns. But they usually don’t claim this income, let alone file the required return, because doing so would serve as an admission of guilt. They are also more likely to be working at less than the minimum wage, facilitating their employer’s choice to bypass Title 29 Section 206 “Minimum wage” as well as requirements to withhold and pay their portions of the FICA and Medicare payroll taxes [conspiracy to commit, on both the illegal immigrant and the employer; perhaps RICO could even be applied to the employers].
An aside here: often the claim is made that “They do jobs Americans won’t do” when the reality is “They do jobs that Americans won’t do at those wages.” Thousands of employers are also violating our laws, notably Title 8 Section 1324a “Unlawful employment of aliens”, by hiring illegal aliens and by paying them under-the-table to avoid our laws about minimum wage, overtime, workers’ compensation, unemployment compensation, family leave, Americans with disabilities and so on. These employers must also be stopped and prosecuted.
When illegal aliens drive a car, they are doing so without a valid license and probably without insurance (a requirement in most states). It is not uncommon for many unrelated illegal aliens to share a single house or apartment, in violation of local codes.
The list of violations could go on and on.
Contractor
May 24th, 2011
10:12 am
Good little liberal,
Why don’t you find an unemployed American citizen and help them find a job? It appears you only want to help the illegals instead of your fellow Americans.
For goodness sake: START THINKING!!!
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
10:12 am
jt: You probably already know this considering all of the bars that you stay in.(doing interveiws and stuff).
you’re a hoot!! I can’t understand why no one else gets you……….I guess your jokes are just too esoteric for them. History professor huh? Viva History!!!
Adam
May 24th, 2011
10:12 am
Bottom Line: The Southern Republican Run States are full of legislators that want all THOSE people gone. Hispanics are an easy target through law because of citizenship, but if they could throw in any undesirable, be it black, or whites on welfare, or women, or gays, or not-my-religion people, they would. This is a disguised witch hunt. This needs to stop. Be accepting and inclusive, not hateful and exclusive!
Contractor
May 24th, 2011
10:13 am
Adam,
Last time I checked, all of those people had the same opportunity to become citizens and accepted in the country like all of the others. Why is it all of our fault? Should we have to pay the taxes to support these people? Should they get paid under the table and not pay into our school systems, healthcare, or tax system? All of which they take advantage of. So don’t sit there and call it a witch hunt against the poor illegals trying to stay under the radar.
pat
May 24th, 2011
10:14 am
Bottom line, liberal support slave labor.
Good little liberal
May 24th, 2011
10:14 am
Themistocles (a.k.a. Left Wing Mgmt)
I don’t support slave labor. That’s what Democrats called the old minimum wages laws.
Democrats are destroying my country. A little political speech and they are in the streets ready to riot and here we are three years after the largest increase in minimum wage in history talking about how impossible it is to run a business under those laws.
DUH!!!!!!
Good little liberal
May 24th, 2011
10:14 am
Adam
The problem with Democrats is your overt racism. You can’t see the difference between Hispanics that are here legally and illegal aliens. All Hispanics are not the same. Start thinking like a Republicans and leave the racist blinders of the Party of George Wallace behind in the 20th century.
Mighy Righty
May 24th, 2011
10:14 am
Mary Elizabeth
May 24th, 2011
9:53 am
Mighty Righty @ 9:43
Explain yourself, please.
Mary, you were quick to believe the worst with out any evidence but his word. The article is full of unbelieveable statements which makes the entire story suspect. You however, accepted a wild accusation as truth. Thus my cynical use of an adage aimed at one being gullible. You can decide if the remark is humorous or mean, your choice. All I did was turn over the rock.
Mick
May 24th, 2011
10:15 am
gll
Man. why are you sooooo condescending? Get a grip, stop the stereotyping and think yourself…
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
10:15 am
also jt josef nix would REALLY like you, he’s a school teacher who has a phenomenal mental database on historic events. he posts here regularly but only in the afternoon when he gets out of school.
Mary Elizabeth
May 24th, 2011
10:15 am
Well said, Adam.
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
10:16 am
Heathen — “The very first sentence on the e-verify website (http://www.uscis.gov) states:
“U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization.”
Sounds like Mr. Small Businessman hasn’t been trying too hard to follow all the laws.”
That is EXACTLY what I thought when I read this. The guy’s “millions” of dollars in debt, but his business model relies on him being able to break or skirt the law? Well, he could realize even more profits by just falsifying his taxes, too, so why not do that as well?
Look, I’m sympathetic to a small businessman who’s trying to make it, and I’m sympathetic to illegosos, too (my wife is Hispanic, the born-here variety). But if your entire business model RELIES on violating the law by using cheap labor that keeps its mouth shut, then I’m sorry — you just didn’t think things through very far before you started your business and went into debt. Should we feel as sorry for a drug dealer who relies on his profits to keep a roof over his head? Or a mafioso who shakes down businessmen or runs hookers in order to bring in an income?
I don’t want this guy to go bankrupt, but his entire business model RELIES on being able to break the law, and he knew that when he got in. I can’t feel sorry for him.
pat
May 24th, 2011
10:17 am
GLL, they have time to riot. They don’t have jobs.
jt
May 24th, 2011
10:17 am
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
9:47 am
jt are you secretly Redneck Convert or Whacks Eloquent in disguise? There was this other guy who used to be on here a lot, Political Uprising or something like that…..his blog name had sexual innuedo in it. Anyway he / she was a hoot too!
I don’t know about that innuedo or such but my name is Jumping Turtle.(jt)
Cooter is another name for turtle………..around here.
.
I have jumped a cooter or two.
TnGelding
May 24th, 2011
10:18 am
A true American. Common sense and compassion.
Let’s see if the unreal Deal tries to enforce it.
Jack
May 24th, 2011
10:18 am
If this restaurant owner is in “millions of dollars” of debt, then the banker knew nothing about the restaurant business. A single restaurant will never make enough money to pay back “millions of dollars”. Something is phony about this story.
pat
May 24th, 2011
10:19 am
I am hispanic. I am here legally, and a citizen. Amnesty is an insult to me. If I could do it, so can they.
Paul
May 24th, 2011
10:21 am
Peadawg
We can’t keep this up forever, I’ve an appointment in 45 minutes.
But as far as your earlier, I didn’t admit I made a mistake? You saw this:
[["Sorry. That was poison pen who questioned Jay’s credibility.
You questioned the restaurant owner’s credibility.
So here’s the do-over.
““Do you know anyone out of work?” – Nope.”
And you say the restaurant owner has a credibility problem over the believability of his statements?!!?]]
So which of those three posts at 7:59. 8:13 and 9:05 by “Peadawg” about the restaurant owner are “things (you) never said”?
ty webb
May 24th, 2011
10:21 am
adam,
Are you aware that president obama has increased deportations of “those people”?
md
May 24th, 2011
10:22 am
“But many people (and politicians) seem to want to grant them eventual citizenship and all the benefits thereof instead.”
Which happens to be the bigger picture problem………….granting amnesty (such as we did under Reagan) without sealing our borders, only causes the abuse of the system to increase……….
Does anyone here think we would be having this discussion if we had sealed the border and enforced the law after the first amnesty??
Shoot no……..instead, some advocate for doing the exact same thing……..which will lead to more chaos down the road………
When the precedent is repeatedly set that the US does nothing to those that violate the immigration law, those wanting to come in will multiply exponentially…………..and those waiting to do it legally will feel betrayed…………
jm
May 24th, 2011
10:22 am
Jack 10:18 – well, I’d guess he owns more than one…. second, some single restaurants (the really fancy ones in ATL) often rack up millions in debt for their interior build out, equipment, etc.
Good little liberal
May 24th, 2011
10:22 am
Mick
Condescending?
I watch the buckets of manure that liberals eat up like steak whenever any piece of garbage legislator comes up with yet another reason to hate Republicans.
You HAD to have the massive increase in minimum wage and now you are claiming that in order for American business to succeed, we can’t obey those laws and have to hire people under the table.
You are KILLING us. Now we have this clown in the White House that is encouraging Islamic radicals to take over North Africa while insisting on the Palestinian total takeover of a huge part of an established Israel. Our economy stinks and now Jay tells this fantasy story about a restaurant owner that is in debt millions and only through ignoring laws that YOUR PARTY PUSHED THROUGH can he survive.
Our country is in serious trouble, Pal. If condescension because of the crap that you support is your only problem, congratulations.
DebbieDoRight
May 24th, 2011
10:22 am
GLL: DebbieDoRight – Has any organization that you belong done ANYTHING to help people become citizens?
Actually yes. Although that’s not one of my “pet” projects, (I currently like projects having to do with the military, [VA Hospital], military families and senior citizens). However my church does do a lot of things for the Portuguese, (Brazillian) community here in Atlanta to help them through the immigration process and assimilation into the American culture. My sister and my aunt, (who is special needs), work at the center and I help out as much as I can. My portuguese is getting better, since we speak it exclusively at the house; but it’s still needs work — I still have problems understanding the slang and the different dialects.
jm
May 24th, 2011
10:23 am
Must be El Azteca….. my wife love’s their food…..
Laurie
May 24th, 2011
10:24 am
This owner’s reasoning for illegal immigration smells of legalized serfdom, slavery even. Didn’t the US do away with that? Wait, didn’t we even have a civil war over it? Plantation owners needed their slaves to keep costs down and business profitable. Is he not using the same arguement for his business?
Aquagirl
May 24th, 2011
10:25 am
GLL, actually I teach ESL on a volunteer basis. I’m not fond of the press 1 for English thing either, and I’m willing to do something about it. Unlike the shrieking GO HOME crowd.
How ’bout you, pat? What do you do besides sit on your gender-ambiguous bum and make assumptions?
Billings
May 24th, 2011
10:26 am
I’ll take a hardworking Mexican over a lazy american any day. The immigrant (legal or not) is grateful, the american feels entitled.
deegee
May 24th, 2011
10:26 am
Oh, yes. The other issue with hiring teens is that they can’t understand why an employer won’t allow them to constantly text while waiting on tables, mowing yards and washing dogs.
ty webb
May 24th, 2011
10:27 am
adam,
are you aware that president obama has doubled the number of border patrol agents trying to keep “those people” out?
Halftrack
May 24th, 2011
10:27 am
The real truth here is “accountability”. Our Politicians, Government, and State have not been held accountable for their actions and in-actions far too long. Just look at our borders. This situation causes people to not want to obey the law on the local levels. It’s hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube once it is out. The U.S. is at a breaking point, otherwise we are slowly deteroriating into a bigger mess with nothing being done toward correction.
TaxPayer
May 24th, 2011
10:31 am
Let’s see. You put the help wanted sign in the window and the only folks that stick around and work are the illegal immigrants once they see what the work is even though it pays above minimum wage. Now, the law will require that those people that took the jobs be turned away. Tell me again who is standing in line waiting to take that job or who would be standing in line to take that job if only the price was right, whatever that price is. Me thinks there are too many Republicans out there that have been brainwashed from years of shock jock AM talk radio blather while those very people filling others heads with the trash talk rely on illegals for everything from their meals to their manicures.
redneckbluedog
May 24th, 2011
10:32 am
I just saw the video of Rep. Rob Woodall’s town hall….OMG…those people cheered him..? They do realize they are paying for his and his family’s health care for the rest of their lives….? And he wants to eliminate their health care…? OMG…You people down there are dumber than I thought…and I set the bar pretty low after Sonny Perdue and Nathan Deal…..!!!!
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
10:32 am
Jay — “jm, he is not currently breaking the law. The law requires him to demand ID of his workers, and he does so.”
You’re off base on this one, Jay. My wife’s an HR professional and deals with I-9 verifications quite a bit. The law actually requires him to *verify* ID, not just demand it (and collect and retain copies of it).
If ICE decided to do an audit of his records, he’s looking at a minimum $10,000 fine for each and every employee whose ID he didn’t verify with SSA.
md
May 24th, 2011
10:33 am
“You put the help wanted sign in the window and the only folks that stick around and work are the illegal immigrants once they see what the work is even though it pays above minimum wage.”
What a bogus excuse………….there are hundreds of companies with the same problem that have never used illegals to fill positions……..been doing it forever……..
Just more pick and choose excuse making………..
blue_unicorn
May 24th, 2011
10:34 am
But policywise, the key to illegal immigration has always been jobs. Illegal immigrants are drawn to this country to work, and any serious effort to address the problem at its source must include an effort to stop employers from hiring them. JB 2/1/11
Now, we are supposed to feel sorry for this poor, ignorant business owner, who crafted a business plan that requires illegal immigrant labor to remain viable?
Mighy Righty
May 24th, 2011
10:34 am
It’s really great how all of you liberals favor laws protecting unskilled illegal immigrant labor, while 30% of Black and White laborers that you pretend to care about are unable to feed their families because the illegals you favor are taking jobs at below market rates. How can you look in the mirror and see a caring person. I am in favor of legal immigration so long as Americans don’t lose their jobs becuae of it. According to Bookman’s interview, the Georgia law will result in helping American laborers find work by forcing some illegals to other states. That’s great news!
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
10:36 am
30% of Black and White laborers that you pretend to care about are unable to feed their families because the illegals
cite, please. (I’m focused on the “because” part of that sentence, not the “30%.”)
Mary Elizabeth
May 24th, 2011
10:37 am
Mighty Righty @ 10:14
I believe that the restaurant owner’s peers received death threats. You are certainly free not to believe that his words were true, if you wish.
However, you made no reference to my comments following that sentence from the article which I quoted – just that sentence regarding death threats – which was blatantly positioned in your post to me.
I knew that you could have meant humor regarding naivete, but I do not know you except through your moniker. Your political positions are certainly more popular than mine are – in this “neck of the woods.” So, perhaps, you can understand why I don’t particularly care for such a blatant statement regarding death threats near my name – joke or otherwise. Why bother to post such as that at all?
However, Mighty Righty, I want you to know that I do appreciate your response to me. I believe you and I take you at your word. Thanks.
I
USMC
May 24th, 2011
10:38 am
Restaurants did just fine BEFORE the Invasion of ILLEGAL ALIENS and they will do just fine AFTER the law is in place.
Sure the restaurant owner will have to adjust as others will, but he will be able to replace his ILLEGAL staff with High school kids, College kids, and others that will gladly take the job.
More of Jay Bookman’s Intellectual Dishonesty; I am seeing a pattern.
Paul
May 24th, 2011
10:38 am
Mighty Righty
“Poor Paul, just won’t believe me because I am a Republican. Would one of you Democrats please explain to Paul that Repubicans had nothing to do with Obamacare.”
Actually, this is kind of funny. I just asked ‘care to guess who killed a provision allowing undocumented workers to buy insurance on the exchange?” and you immediately thought it was an attack on Republicans.
Why so knee-jerk defensive?
If you’d bothered to do a bit of research, you might have found:
“Neither the House bill nor Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee bill restricts illegal immigrants from being eligible to purchase coverage through a health insurance “exchange” or gateway set up in the legislation. However, the House bill explicitly states that undocumented immigrants would not be eligible to receive government subsidies to buy insurance, regardless of income. The Senate Committee Bill is much tougher and bars illegal immigrants from purchasing health insurance through the exchange.
Baucus’ proposal also includes verification requirements to ensure that illegal immigrants are blocked from receiving federal subsidies or entering the exchange — an effort to quell Republican concerns that loopholes would allow illegal immigrants to benefit from receiving health insurance at a reduced rate. ”
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/October/23/illegal-immigrants-health-explainer.aspx
out for a bit -
stands for decibels
May 24th, 2011
10:39 am
our obesity problems is because of illegal immigrants!!!!!!!!!!!!
as is “30% of laborers not being able to feed their famblies,” apparently.
I learn such interesting stuff in here. Hey, did you know that Obama thinks we have 57 states? And that Nancy Pelosi needed to pass the bill before she knew what was in it?
Bosch
May 24th, 2011
10:40 am
“Restaurants did just fine BEFORE ”
But there weren’t as many…..and Americans didn’t eat out as much, and were therefore less obese, and healthier…..
….okay, so, our obesity problems is because of illegal immigrants!!!!!!!!!!!! Get the torches and pitchforks!!!!
Joe Mama
May 24th, 2011
10:40 am
Debbie — “PS: I couldn’t resist. You have to be the only person I’ve ever “talked” to named Jerome!!”
Ask him to bring you your mirror.
Don't Forget
May 24th, 2011
10:41 am
Restaurant owner losing business? two words- happy hour
Contractor
May 24th, 2011
10:41 am
USMC,
You are absolutely correct. How do these restaurants and bars succeed in college towns? You have college kids willing to work and make some money is how. They don’t rely on illegal aliens to keep the wheels turning. They get it done with legal citizens.
TaxPayer
May 24th, 2011
10:42 am
What a bogus excuse………….there are hundreds of companies with the same problem that have never used illegals to fill positions……..been doing it forever……..
Just more pick and choose excuse making………..
It’s just reality md. You may choose to accept it as such or not. Then again, I think you have made your choice quite clear.
Mick
May 24th, 2011
10:44 am
gll
Dude, you are an angry irrational fool lashing out at people that in your mind only belong to one group. Sorry to ruin your pity party but it’s a bit more complex than that. My advice to you is – drink heavily…
Jay
May 24th, 2011
10:45 am
Joe Mama, the restaurant owner submits the required I-9 forms to federal authorities. It is the feds, not the business owner, who do the validation check. If and when the business is notified that the SSI number and name do not match, the business is then required to take action by seeking clarification from the employee. However, it often takes a year or more for such mismatches to be noticed by the feds, and once the employer is notified and then the employee is notified, the employee often just moves on to the next job.
However, the restaurant owner told me that he has noticed a recent increase in the pace of I-9 mismatch letters he is receiving from the feds.
shawny
May 24th, 2011
10:45 am
Chicken Littles.
This is not going to ruin any industry. Prices will climb as business do the right thing and hire US citizens, pay taxes on them, etc. Corn will cost more and so will beef. It is a way of life. We can make up for the costs in reduced healthcare costs and additional tax revenues.
The sky aint falling.
And for that joker that is in debt millions and employs illegals; he is a poor planner and his lack of business savvy does not justify bailing him out. Sorry, he isn’t too big to fail. He needs to fail now, scrap the business, then start a new profession or even the same one except on the up and up.
shawny
May 24th, 2011
10:48 am
We didn’t lose the construction industry. Home ownership was oversold and housing capacity overbuilt.
The people making money off of illegals needs to be brought in check. Pass 87, enforce it, and welcome the new way. There are plenty of US citizens that need work. Two birds, one stone.
Irwin M. Fletcher
May 24th, 2011
10:50 am
I like the restaurant owners rationalization. He never thought that there would be a bill like this, and actually obeying the law could shut him down. I like it, maybe I could use the same logic.
Hey, when I bought my house, I never thought the economy would tank and I would lose my job. If I can’t rob banks and hold up people at gunpoint, I’ll lose my home.
Can I get an article written to generate sympathy for my plight?