The year the world changed, and no one noticed
Mark Schmitt, in a piece in New Republic, takes note of Paul Ryan’s Medicare proposal to make 1956 the dividing line between two Americas: “Those over 55 will continue to benefit from one of the triumphs of social insurance in the Great Society, while the rest of us will be on our own, with a coupon for private health insurance.”
As a 1956 baby and member of the graduating class of 1974, I stand right on that dividing line. And I was particularly struck by Schmitt’s description of 1974 as a pivot point in American social and economic history:
“Look at almost any historical chart of the American economy, and you see two sharp breaks in the 1970s. First, in 1974, household incomes, which had been rising since World War II, flattened. Real wages started to stagnate. The poverty rate stopped falling. Health insurance coverage stopped rising. Those trends have continued ever since.
Second, a little later in the decade, around the time today’s 55-year-olds graduated from college (if they did—fewer than 30 percent have a four-year degree), inequality began its sharp rise, and the share of national income going to the bottom 40 percent began to fall. Productivity and wages, which had tended to keep pace, began to diverge, meaning that workers began seeing little of the benefits of their own productivity gains. The number of jobs in manufacturing peaked and began to drop sharply. Defined benefit pensions, which provide a secure base of income in retirement, began to give way to 401(k)s and similar schemes that depend on the worker to save and the stock market to perform….
The Ryan plan, in other words, delivers to the older generation exactly what they’ve had all their lives—secure and predictable benefits—and to the next generation, more of what they’ve known—insecurity and risk. “
Personally, I’d take that analysis several steps further. I’d argue that our cultural expectations of the American Dream, our image of the international role played by the United States, our comprehension of how the economy is supposed to work, our understanding of the proper interplay among government, business and individual citizens — they’re all still predicated on the world that existed prior to 1974. As a culture, we haven’t really come to grips with the fact that those expectations and understandings are no longer valid, and haven’t been for a long time. Even Americans too young to have experienced that earlier world firsthand have absorbed the expectations it created among their parents and grandparents.
In fact, that chasm between outdated expectation and modern reality is driving a lot of the political ferment we now see. People sense that things aren’t as they’ve been taught they should be; they just don’t know why. And it’s not about Obama, any more than it was about George W. Bush or Bill Clinton. (The later Clinton years, in fact, can be seen in retrospect as the last gasp of the pre-’74 America, a period in which the old economic order seemed to reassert itself, if all too briefly.)
The transition is bigger than any president or party. Nobody caused it; nobody can stop it. At most we can try to deal with and adjust to it. Unfortunately, I don’t think the Democrats have come to grips with that reality at all — not in their rhetoric, and not in their policy. I think the Republicans have done so only to the extent of blaming it all on government, when in fact much more powerful forces are at work. Both parties are still stuck trying to convince voters that they have the secret to making things as they used to be, and neither has any hope of doing so.
– Jay Bookman
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500 comments Add your comment
Billybob
May 23rd, 2011
6:15 pm
KUtGF,
So you think hussein running on his actual record (which increases the ‘unqualified’ factor) will be better than him doing that hope and change thing again? We agree for once. I do believe his 4 years will be a huge benefit for the next conservative president in 12′. Enjoy…….
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
6:15 pm
Grady is public funded. Socialism at work…
Jay
May 23rd, 2011
6:17 pm
I think we’re headed to a government shutdown of sorts and partial government default. The actions of Democrats such as Reid is going to make it next to impossible for Republicans to compromise. He’s acting in such bad faith, and playing so much politics, that they’re just going to say screw it.
Dems, government default, at your feet.
jm, that is one of the more ludicrous things you’ve ever posted. The GOP has repeatedly screamed there will be no compromise, which makes it hard to, you know, compromise.
Jay
May 23rd, 2011
6:18 pm
Reid is bringing up the minority party’s budget bill. What a joke. Reid is leading from the back row.
And if Reid refused to bring up the minority party’s budget bill, you’d be whining about that.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
May 23rd, 2011
6:18 pm
I was born in 1958 and have stage IV colon cancer. You’ve got to start somehere, to stop the TAX and SPEND of NObama……Herman Cain is the MAN! Sorry, can’t say I’m a racist.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
6:19 pm
JAY
@ 6:13
Yep. I work for the schools…insurance cost to me is practically negligible and coverage is “golden…” And just for the reasons you stated…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
May 23rd, 2011
6:19 pm
There’s a final problem with portraying Kennedy as the ideological kin of Reagan and Bush on tax policy. Kennedy, it turns out, initially wanted to use government spending, not tax cuts, as the means to put dollars in people’s hands. But that idea ran aground in 1962 because conservatives in Congress opposed it, while the president’s aides feared that the bond market might respond to additional spending with higher rates that could offset their gains. Still, even as Kennedy accepted tax reduction as the first step along the route to growth, he never gave up his spending idea. “First, we’ll have your tax cut,” he told Heller; “then we’ll have my expenditures program.”
Like scripture, it seems, John F. Kennedy can be quoted for many purposes
Paul
May 23rd, 2011
6:19 pm
So it’s been underway 40 years and people still haven’t come to grips with the gulf between expectations and reality?!!? How much time does it talk?
Maybe it takes that long to see a shift has occurred. But now that it’s recognized, it’ll take a while to accept.
“The transition is bigger than any president or party. Nobody caused it; nobody can stop”
Historians look for causes in the sweep of history. I think there may be some identifiable factors. But whether or not people want to take action to reverse that is something else again.
Paul
May 23rd, 2011
6:21 pm
Jay
Got an email from USinUK. Thanks.
jm
May 23rd, 2011
6:21 pm
Jay 6:15 – probably so.
Ok, I accept duplicity on that one.
Jay 6:17 – well, you can make it easier for someone to compromise, or harder. If Dems want to raise the price of compromise (which they’re doing), it increases the likelihood of “nothing done” (aka default). Negotiations 101.
@@
May 23rd, 2011
6:22 pm
Kamchak:
I know what happened afterwards. Pawlenty had no way of knowing what Giefer would do, only what he’d done. He based his decision on that.
============================================
Many GOP officials are lukewarm about Romney. Still, he’s the best known of the party’s current candidates. According to the most recent AP-GfK poll, 66 percent of Republicans nationwide view him favorably, 22 percent unfavorably. and 11 percent have no opinion. His positive numbers are higher among self-described conservatives (75 percent favorable) and “strong” Republicans (81 percent favorable).
I don’t know how jay’s conservatives feel, but I’m fine with Romney. He’ll be looking for a second term…walking on eggshells. He’s learned from Obama’s mistakes.
There’s no perfect candidate.
I’ll go out on a limb and predict Huntsman will NOT run. Just like Daniels, his is a political tease.
It’ll be Romney and Pawlenty at the finish line.
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
6:22 pm
Jay at 6:03,
Medical inflation rates do exceed cpi index as you stated. So then you simply tie the voucher amounts to the medical inflation rate or you implement other reforms such as tort reform, or a sliding scale based on age as to what % the health plan is allowed to pay for certain operations such as hip and knee replacements at certain ages. This will not be popular of course but the harsh reality is that as our nation ages we will simply demand more and more health care services and operations. Not a dem or Repub problem- more like a demographic issue.
I mention that sliding scale idea on cost sharing because I met a 77 year old last year who had back to back knee or hip replacements at his age- can’t remember which at 50k each. Actuarially he doesn’t have many years left and that’s quite a cost to someone who could die within months of a couple of expensive procedures. The problem here of course is the same one as always. Some people will cry foul if they can’t afford the cost sharing for their hip replacement while someone else could and was able to get the operation.
jm
May 23rd, 2011
6:23 pm
Jay, but you must admit, bringing up the Ryan plan alone is overtly political. Sessions isn’t saying don’t brink up the Ryan plan. He’s saying: bring up all the plans that aren’t going to pass.
Mary Elizabeth
May 23rd, 2011
6:23 pm
From the article above, from the source in the New Republic:
“Low-, middle-, and high-income growth, 1947-2009
Real income growth for different income percentiles diverged in the 1970s, with real incomes flattening in the 20th percentile and the median, and increasing in the 95th percentile.”
—————————————————————-
I agree with Mark V’s statement at 4:45 p.m. that “(t)here is really no crisis of SS Security, Medicare, Medicaid, health care – there is only a crisis of our willingness to pay for the programs.”
————————————————————-
There has been a change in the American culture since 1974, but I believe that it has been deliberate in nature, rather than destined. (And that change has greatly benefitted the top 95 percentile group in our nation.) Therefore, because it was deliberate, I believe it can be turned around with awareness and desire on the part of ordinary Americans. Political forces since the mid and late 1970s have deliberately tried to change the vision of the American people to one of self-interest instead of communal interest, as existed before 1974. Obama’s vision is one that would reinstate the communal vision and make it real into the future.
I presented the following video clip in another discussion a few days ago. It makes my point today with facts, recently discovered about ALEC. This organization was formed in 1973. Perhaps some will view it, today, to open their eyes to those forces that have changed America’s way of thinking since the mid 1970s. (ALEC is just one example of a coordinated effort to change the American culture to benefit the top percentile.) Please view the clip in a larger context than simply immigration concerns and, also, please disregard the hyperbole in the Latino commercial to view, thereafter, the facts that underscore of my point of view today.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/43070587#43070587
Ayn Rant
May 23rd, 2011
6:23 pm
Thula Doom . . . you are dead wrong about the medical care in other developed countries. It works. The citizens wouldn’t want any other type of medical coverage. All political parties support it. Life expectancy is higher and the infant mortality rate is lower than in the USA. And overall health care for all citizens costs much less than health care that covers only 70% of Americans. And people pay for their health care through their taxes, rather than being bombarded with claims and billing statements from insurance companies and medical providers.
Where do you find all that false stuff? Don’t you know that many Americans order affordable prescription drugs from Canada? Don’t you know that the Canadian police keep watch on Canadian clinics near the border, to prevent American citizens from seeking the health care they cannot get in the US?
Billybob
May 23rd, 2011
6:24 pm
the dems have controlled the purse strings since 2007 bookman and that is a fact…..our deficit has increased by close to $6 trillion under pelosi, reid and hussein and that is a fact……the country has been notified that a future default is coming……we have no more money and the gov’t shutdown is absolutely 100% at their feet unless they accept HUGE deficit reduction proposals from the conservatives. Even you can’t use the lib101 template of changing the subject on deez’ things…..enjoy the continuing smackdown of liberal ideology over the next few years jay….
USMC
May 23rd, 2011
6:24 pm
Keep up the fight@6:14
You know, one of our biggest problems in society today is people, like Keep up the fight, who take themselves too seriously and lack COMMON SENSE.
The reality is that they are very insecure and know that they are limited but pontificate as though everything is so “sophisticated” and they are “intelligent” when actually they lack most Common Sense.
The fact is Keep Up the Fight thinks he is on some type of higher intellectual level than everyone else to mask the reality that he is not. Little does he know we see right through the FLUFF
Themistocles (a.k.a. Left Wing Mgmt)
May 23rd, 2011
6:24 pm
Back to our previous topic, here’s an expose at Mother Jones on Herman Cain’s Enron-esque back history as an executive of an energy company in the 90s. Not pretty.
Founded in 1917 as Green Light and Power, Aquila traditionally made its money operating electric and gas plants and selling the energy they produced. In the years after Cain joined the board, Aquila’s earnings climbed, from $254 million in 1995 to $351 million in 1998. Then, in early 1999, the company’s leadership decided running power plants wasn’t lucrative enough; energy trading and speculation had grown popular, and as the class suit lays out, Aquila wanted a piece of the action.
It was a dangerous move—as a company spokesman later put it, “the risk was huge.” In the end, it proved disastrous. Aquila’s decision to join Enron, Reliant Energy, and the other heavy-hitters in the energy trading markets would ultimately wipe out 94 percent of Aquila’s stock value between 1999 and 2004. …
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/05/herman-cain-aquila-lawsuit-2012
TruthBe
May 23rd, 2011
6:24 pm
Jay you don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground about the oil industry. America has enough oil and gas to run our great and blessed Nation for thousands of years. If the Jackass in Chief Obama would grant the American Oil Industry to do it’s job by drilling and getting the oil / gas out of the ground. Instead of giving Brazil two billion taxpayers dollars to drill in South and Central America. By the way Jay that’s because he’s paying off his Master George Soros for the campaign donations and media help. Ask your girl CT about that. Jay it would help you to do some homework about a topic before you try to write or paste something about a issue. That way you want look so stupid. trying to help you boy.
Kamchak
May 23rd, 2011
6:26 pm
Pawlenty had no way of knowing what Giefer would do, only what he’d done.
No.
Pawlenty didn’t know what he’d done.
In fact, the complaint alleges, Giefer had been raping his daughter for about six years when Pawlenty granted him his extraordinary pardon.
jm
May 23rd, 2011
6:27 pm
Timmy my man. Speakin my language….
“Pawlenty’s first bit of honesty was for the Iowans: The federal government must phase out ethanol subsidies — key in this corn-heavy state — in order to drive more investment and innovation in the industry.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55502.html#ixzz1NDWh9S8I
No doubt Dems will try to crucify you on those words if you make it to the general election. But, hey, there’ll be that rapture thing at some point…..
jm
May 23rd, 2011
6:30 pm
grinning ear to ear. someone’s pandering to the Daniels supporters. no points for guessing.
The next stop on Pawlenty’s straight talk tour will be on Tuesday in Florida, where he’ll tell young people and seniors that the country must “gradually raise” the Social Security retirement age. He called for means testing Social Security’s annual cost-of-living adjustment, instituting pay-for-performance incentives in Medicare and block granting Medicaid to the states.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55502.html#ixzz1NDXL7gYM
Billybob
May 23rd, 2011
6:30 pm
FYI………
mary elizabeth, new republic, and msbnc come together to bring you class warfare tenet through the eyes of marx…….sponsored by jay bookman and cynthia tucker…..
Keep Up the Good Fight!
May 23rd, 2011
6:30 pm
Oh uh, looks like I gots me a FLUFF ‘n nutter spouting something about common sense.
As my pappy says…if common sense were common, why everyone would have it. Usually those who rely on “common sense” have weak failing arguments without facts or real evidence.
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
6:31 pm
Life and politics are so much simplier when you can reduce it to the bumper sticker of moronality. It matters not the facts or the circumstances. Whether a family whose husband dies in a tragic mining accident caused because the greeedy rich owner decides to cut safety to the family who has both parents employed by the same man that demands the wife have sex with him and she fears for feeding them. Nuances and details just dont have the moronic impact of a bumper sticker.
Keepup,
Let me help you out there. Have the husband go out and buy a half million dollar term life insurance policy at $20-$30 a month if he’s young. No reason others should take care of his family because the slacker was too stupid to buy life insurance. There. Problem solved.
jm
May 23rd, 2011
6:31 pm
“The truth is, people getting paid by the taxpayers shouldn’t get a better deal than the taxpayers themselves,” he said. “That means freezing federal salaries, transitioning federal employee benefits, and downsizing the federal workforce as it retires. It means paying public employees for results, not just seniority.”
Then he’ll be off to Wall Street.
“I’m going to New York City, to tell Wall Street that if I’m elected, the era of bailouts, handouts, and carve outs are over,” he said. “No more subsidies, no more special treatment. No more Fannie and Freddie, no more TARP, and no more ‘too big to fail.’”
And though he won’t be headed to South Carolina just yet, he showed that the Palmetto State is very much on his mind. In a nod to the dispute with the National Labor Relations Board that has been roiling the early primary state, Pawlenty took on the unions, saying bluntly, “no card check – not now and not ever.” He said the board “will never again tell an American company where it can and can’t do business.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55502.html#ixzz1NDXxaxYF
Well someone is going all out.
Joe Mama
May 23rd, 2011
6:31 pm
USMC — “BUY YOUR OWN F’ING HEALTH INSURANCE, JAY
Why do you advocate for someone else to always pay your way. Unbelievable.
“If you can’t feed them, Don’t Breed Them!”
One wonders where USMC stands on the issue of school vouchers.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
6:31 pm
USMC
“… but other people can go buy affordable Health Insurance RIGHT NOW.”
Some can, some can’t. Most of those in our neighborhood can…but there’s another world out there you and I live isolated from…don’t forget that…and, well, I’m willing to pay that “little extra” to keep them at arm’s length… aren’t you?
TRACY
Get out while you can? Why? This is my country. This is where I was born. This is where my roots sink back centuries…nope, I’ll stick it out…far worse than this has come our way…1865, folks didn’t have a pot to p*ss in and only a paneless window to throw it out of…and today? Got a good life full of everything a person could want…why? They stuck it out in the hard times…they could’ve joined those of their peers leaving for France, but didn’t…and France since 1865? Well, let’s just say the descendents a lot of those who did go there probably wished Grandpappy had stayed back in Dixieland contemplating the matter waiting for their one way tickets from the Velodrome…nope, I’ll stake my and my children’s future here in America…
Jay
May 23rd, 2011
6:32 pm
That’s quite a screed, there, TruthBe. You seem to think you know quite a lot. Would you care to post an actual source for the data you claim exists to back you up?
I’d love to see it, because your claim isn’t in the same neighborhood as reality. It’s not even in the neighborhood of the neighborhood.
Jay
May 23rd, 2011
6:33 pm
Oh my jm. You mean there are politics in politics? Shocking!
Paul
May 23rd, 2011
6:35 pm
Ummmm…. Jay,
“your claim isn’t in the same neighborhood as reality. It’s not even in the neighborhood of the neighborhood.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y
Joe Mama
May 23rd, 2011
6:37 pm
Mmm — “I was born in 1958 and have stage IV colon cancer.”
While I don’t agree with much of anything that mmm ever has to say, I am sincerely sorry to hear this.
Mmm, I do hope that your doctors are able to help you. Stage IV cancer is no picnic.
Jay
May 23rd, 2011
6:37 pm
Exactly, Paul.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
May 23rd, 2011
6:37 pm
Doom claims term life insurance is going to help the mother forced to have sex with her boss to keep her family fed? Why sure for only $20-$30 a month a family can by term life insurance, provided there are no pre-existing conditions, the insurance company pays, the family has money to pay that bill after medical and living expenses.
Well I guess that bumper sticker moronality needs a few asteriks….
jm
May 23rd, 2011
6:38 pm
Jay 6:33 – yes. Though I seem to recall you bemoaning the hyper-partisan atmosphere as much as everyone else….. so Reid’s just amping things up. How do you feel about that?
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
6:39 pm
JAY
On TruthBe…as soon as you see Soros, you know what’s coming…jus saying…
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
6:39 pm
Don’t you know that many Americans order affordable prescription drugs from Canada? Don’t you know that the Canadian police keep watch on Canadian clinics near the border,- Ayn Rant
Ayn Rant,
Clearly you have done absolutely zero reading on this particular subject. The reason the drugs are cheaper in Canada is because American drug purchasers are basically subsidizing the true cost of drugs for Canadians who also have the advantage of a single purchaser. Now before you get all excited about cheaper costs through a single purchaser keep in mind that we can always do that here but that the results are going to be predictable. We will get cheaper drugs and big pharma will see their profits slashed. The end result will be slashed production, research, and development of new and promising drugs. Drug research would simply grind to a halt. Do some more reading before popping off oh foolish one.
independent and depressed
May 23rd, 2011
6:39 pm
Thanks to our military industrial establishment and the welfare state this country is broke and going downhill fast. The dollar will be a wothjeless piece of paper soon. But everyone on medicare and social security will get their benefits regardless of need. Kind of like watching a bunch of drunks at a bar drinking until they pass out.
TruthBe
May 23rd, 2011
6:40 pm
Jay we have just found one of the worlds biggest oil / gas reserves in North Dakota. Jay that’s in the United States son. Please read some and put down the video games.
jm
May 23rd, 2011
6:41 pm
this is funny…..
““The governor’s position hasn’t changed,” said Perry aide Mark Miner. “He has no intention to run for president and is focused on the current legislative session.”
A former Bush official thought that was a prudent course.
“America is done with Texas for awhile,” said the official. “He makes George W. Bush look like a Yankee. People don’t want cowboy. Obama was the anti-cowboy.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55523_Page3.html#ixzz1NDaOB8Lv
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
6:41 pm
jm
George W Bush IS a Yankee…no need to try to make him look like one…
Jay
May 23rd, 2011
6:43 pm
North Dakota, TruthBe:
Here ya go:
“According to Harold Hamm, president of the energy company Continental Resources, it could produce a million barrels a day by 2020.
That’s only a fraction of the 9.8 million barrels a day the country produces and an even smaller fraction of the 19.2 million it consumes, but it’s significant.”
TruthBe
May 23rd, 2011
6:43 pm
josef nix you owned by Soros too????
jm
May 23rd, 2011
6:43 pm
Another top Republican said he relishes the idea of a Palin candidacy: “She’ll be defeated, and we’ll be done with her.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55523_Page3.html#ixzz1NDannLbp
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
6:43 pm
Ayn Rant,
National health care at its best in Britain
By Fay Schlesinger, Andy Dolan and Tim Shipman
Last updated at 2:16 AM on 25th February 2010
• Comments (239)
• Videos
• Add to My Stories
• Up to 1,200 patients died unnecessarily because of appalling care
• Labour’s obsession with targets and box ticking blamed for scandal
• Patients were ‘routinely neglected’ at hospital
• Report calls for FOURTH investigation into scandal
Not a single official has been disciplined over the worst-ever NHS hospital scandal, it emerged last night.
Up to 1,200 people lost their lives needlessly because Mid-Staffordshire NHS Trust put government targets and cost-cutting ahead of patient care.
But none of the doctors, nurses and managers who failed them has suffered any formal sanction.
Moat House hotel near Stafford, after Robert Francis QC delivered his report
Indeed, some have either retired on lucrative pensions or have swiftly found new jobs.
Former chief executive Martin Yeates, who has since left with a £1million pension pot, six months’ salary and a reported £400,000 payoff, did not even give evidence to the inquiry which detailed the scale of the scandal yesterday.
He was said to be medically unfit to do so, though he sent some information to chairman Robert Francis through his solicitor.
The devastating-report into the Stafford Hospital-shambles’ laid waste to Labour’s decade-long obsession with box-ticking and league tables.
The independent inquiry headed by Robert Francis QC found the safety of sick and dying patients was ‘routinely neglected’. Others were subjected to ‘ inhumane treatment’, ‘bullying’, ‘abuse’ and ‘rudeness’.
The shocking estimated death toll, three times the previous figure of 400, has prompted calls for a full public inquiry.
Bosses at the Trust – officially an ‘elite’ NHS institution – were condemned for their fixation with cutting waiting times to hit Labour targets and leaving neglected patients to die.
But after a probe that was controversially held in secret, not a single individual has been publicly blamed.
The inquiry found that:
• Patients were left unwashed in their own filth for up to a month as nurses ignored their requests to use the toilet or change their sheets;
• Four members of one family. including a new-born baby girl. died within 18 months after of blunders at the hospital;
• Medics discharged patients hastily out of fear they risked being sacked for delaying;
• Wards were left filthy with blood, discarded needles and used dressings while bullying managers made whistleblowers too frightened to come forward.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
May 23rd, 2011
6:44 pm
Do some more reading before popping off oh foolish one.
The poster of that particular sentence may need to take some time for self-reflection…but I doubt he will consider it.
Dusty
May 23rd, 2011
6:45 pm
Well, for a nice change of political venue, Bookman could give us the goodly facts on former Democratic politician Cynthia McKinney. Seems she is quite a hit with Hamas and Gaddafi and others. I bet she can see Africa from the back port of her Hamas supply ship. Maybe she will return and give Obama a run for his money in Demo elections.
Now that would be some fresh material without the daily repeats on Republicans. This socialist sad stuff has about reached its terminal turpitude!.
Now, off to feed those poor starving children in my kitchen. Where’s a socialist when you need one?
jm
May 23rd, 2011
6:45 pm
josef nix – jewcowboy would be very upset to hear about this….
GT
May 23rd, 2011
6:46 pm
We have got to get back to life like it was in the pre 74 era. List the things needed for life, then look at the things we pay the most money for. If the New York Yankees stop playing tomorrow would we all drop dead, don’t think so. But if the Atlanta police force didn’t show up some of us would drop dead for sure. Look what the Yanks were being paid in ‘74, look what police are being paid now. Do the same with farmers, nurses, then look at actors or Wall Street. The need for a product should dictate the price you pay for it. As gas and water raise in importance there will be no money to support the things we waste on now. The world will get back in balance and we will have pre ‘74 again, if not here where we seem to be a bit slow at creating to a non superficial world, then somewhere in this world for sure.
TruthBe
May 23rd, 2011
6:48 pm
Jay now you’re talking. Here’s a clue why don’t you do some jornalism type work and do a story about North America’s own Oil /Gas reserves to run America’s needs and get away from foreign oil. I will support you in your work. Thank you
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
6:48 pm
TruthBe
Nope. But as Jay will vouch, I probably know a little more about him than those out there who for some unknown reasons have made him into an arch villain…
@@
May 23rd, 2011
6:49 pm
Kamchak:
Pawlenty didn’t know what he’d done.
I stand corrected. I will not, however, hold Pawlenty solely responsible. The vote of three was unanimous for Giefer’s pardon. Pawlenty had no way of knowing what was going on inside the household. Giefer’s wife won’t even admit it…she’s saying the girl’s lying.
If it were up to me, Giefer would receive the death penalty.
Joe Mama
May 23rd, 2011
6:51 pm
Mr. Doom — “The end result will be slashed production, research, and development of new and promising drugs. Drug research would simply grind to a halt.”
Huh. I guess no pharmaceutical research ever happens outside the US.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
6:52 pm
jm
I’m not following the jewcowboy one…fill me in…
And as for life pre-1974…I’m not so sure about that…looking back, I had one helluva grand time…but that’s looking back, picking and choosing just the fun parts…there was an awful lot about it that was not so rose colored…
Paul
May 23rd, 2011
6:52 pm
Jay
A fellow columnist who I’ve cited. From last Sunday. He takes if from an auto industry baseline, but the principles apply to the economy. Much of the same as what’s being discussed. He offers some reasons why, also.
“it wasn’t the labor cost that made building these goods so incredibly expensive; it was the cost of the engineering and components that went into producing them that inflated their introductory prices. Then as now, however, it was true that if you build a great product that fulfills the needs or desires of the masses, people will flood in to buy it.
It was our lack of ability to bring new and superior products to the market – and then see overseas manufacturers fill that gap – that hurt so many of America’s major manufacturers. That’s mainly what eroded our blue-collar middle class jobs into and across the ocean.”
“While the lower middle class was shrinking, of course, our upper middle class was expanding. One look at the luxury car market’s sales rate in this country and you’ll fully appreciate that”
http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/05/20/3091685/foolish-predictions.html
TruthBe
May 23rd, 2011
6:52 pm
josef nix, Please tell us what you know about George Soros..
MarkV
May 23rd, 2011
6:53 pm
This following argument about the effect of a single purchaser on big pharma is such a crock:
“We will get cheaper drugs and big pharma will see their profits slashed. The end result will be slashed production, research, and development of new and promising drugs. Drug research would simply grind to a halt.”
In other words, it says that the reaction of big pharma will be: “If we are making less money we will slash production, research and development of new and promising drugs, to make even less money.”
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
6:54 pm
Are the libs still enamored of national health care systems?
A recent “Investor’s Business Daily”
article provided very interesting
statistics from a survey by the United
Nations International Health
Organization.
Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis:
U.S. 65%
England 46%
Canada 42%
Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months:
U.S. 93%
England 15%
Canada 43%
Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months:
U.S. 90%
England 15%
Canada 43%
Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:
U.S. 77%
England 40%
Canada 43%
Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people:
U.S. 71
England 14
Canada 18
Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in “excellent health”:
U.S. 12%
England 2%
Canada 6%
I don’t know about you, but I don’t want “Universal Healthcare” comparable to England or Canada .
Kamchak
May 23rd, 2011
6:54 pm
This item about untapped reserves in the Bakken formation (which lies within portions of North Dakota, South Dakota and Montana) appears to be taken from a tout sheet intended to sell subscription to an investment newsletter.
Jay
May 23rd, 2011
6:54 pm
That is sadly accurate, Paul.
F. Sinkwich
May 23rd, 2011
6:54 pm
Good job, Bookman, you’ve identified Hopey/Changey’s 2012 campaign slogan: “We suck, get used to it!”
What a winner.
The USA is the greatest country the world has ever seen. It’s a beacon of freedom and hope to everyone on the planet. Hopey/Changey wants to turn this world wonder into a socialist basket case.
Yep, Jay, libs have a winner in “Our Best Days Are Behind Us!”
on patroll
May 23rd, 2011
6:55 pm
Drug research would simply grind to a halt…thulsa’s logic is flawless.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
6:55 pm
PAUL
And that upper middle class and luxury cars…those upstart yahoos actually pur BUMPER STICKERS on them…how gauche!
Paulo977
May 23rd, 2011
6:55 pm
josef
In support of your vision…
“For those with a moral compass, every life is priceless”
“Things derive their being and nature by mutual dependenceand are nothing in themselves”!!!!!!!!!!!
Nagarjuna
Paul
May 23rd, 2011
6:56 pm
josef nix
Some things are just inherently…. wrong -
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
6:56 pm
Joe mama,
Of course there is pharmaceutical research elsewhere and a couple of German and English drug companies come up with some pretty good drugs. But whose drug companies come out with the most new drugs?
Mary Elizabeth
May 23rd, 2011
6:57 pm
Billybob @ 6:30
Billybob
“mary elizabeth, new republic, and msbnc come together to bring you class warfare tenet through the eyes of marx…….sponsored by jay bookman and cynthia tucker…..”
——————————————————–
Billybob, you simply give your opinion and your thoughts have no bearing on the facts, as they stand, and you do not address my point of view relative to those facts.
Go back to the original source – the Matt Schmitt article in New Republic, which you can click onto in Jay’s article above, and then click onto the words in red “inequality,” in Schmitt’s article. There you can see for yourself the graph which presents the great rise in income since 1974 for those in the 95th percentile – as opposed to those whose incomes have not risen significantly in the medium and lower groups. Also, listen to the full video I presented, especially the part AFTER the Latino commercial, to understand the stealthy political forces in our nation that have contributed to these disparity of wealth since the mid 1970s. This is not accidental; this does not depend on who presents the information. The information stands as fact for itself.
St Simons - we're on Island time
May 23rd, 2011
6:58 pm
“Get out while you can”
oh, my… oh no I don’t think so. I don’t think you understand the way its gonna go down. This is a govt by the people, for the people. The People want good affordable healthcare and Medicare. Just keep standin in their way, cons, and hold that neck reeeeeal still-like.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
6:58 pm
TruthBe
This is hardly the forum for that…but, what would you like to know about?
MarkV
May 23rd, 2011
6:58 pm
Thulsa Doom @6:54 pm: The fallacy of your argument citing the statistics is that you ASSume the cause and effect.
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
6:59 pm
Joe Mama,
Drug production won’t grind to a halt as I embellished but there’s no question new drug innovation would be stifled. I think most reasonable people would agree on that.
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
7:01 pm
MarkV
All I know is that you’re much better off having cancer over here than in Britain or Canada. Facts is facts sir.
BTW how do you like that article on the Staffordshire Hospital in Britain? Its enough to make ya sick aint it?
Kamchak
May 23rd, 2011
7:03 pm
Investor’s Business Daily?
Is that the same Investor’s Business Daily that said Stephen Hawking, “wouldn’t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless”?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
7:04 pm
PAULO
I got accused recently of some rather unpleasant personality characterizations which included a poster demeaning my religious faith (the poster being a frequent citer of his/her church going) because I brought up the question of a moral compass in relation to the human element of the great issues of the day…that’s why that one has stuck in my craw the way it has…
Joe Mama
May 23rd, 2011
7:04 pm
Mr. Doom — “Of course there is pharmaceutical research elsewhere and a couple of German and English drug companies come up with some pretty good drugs.”
A *lot* of household name drugs weren’t developed by (and aren’t made by) American pharma corporations. I encourage other posters to look into where their over-the-counter drugs get made. Heck, even Bayer aspirin isn’t an American product.
“But whose drug companies come out with the most new drugs?
Given that *other* high-tech jobs get farmed out to other nations, who’s to say that Pfizer or Eli Lilly won’t start doing their R&D in Ecuador or Vietnam or Jordan or some d**n where at any time? The moment they think they can squeeze out another buck in profit by doing their R&D elsewhere, it’s goodbye purple mountains majesty and hello overseas production associates.
If corporations gave a d**n about keeping Americans at work, then I’d have more sympathy for them. You and I have had this conversation before, Mr. Doom.
Jay
May 23rd, 2011
7:05 pm
Would you prefer Tim Pawlenty’s “we may lose our country,” SInkwich?
Things could get better. Things could get worse. And one key to getting better rather than worse is acknowledging exactly where we are and how we got here.
Jay
May 23rd, 2011
7:05 pm
Or would you prefer Newt Gingrich’s world, in which he fears that his grandchildren will be ruled by radical Muslim atheists?
Joe Mama
May 23rd, 2011
7:06 pm
Mr. Doom — “Drug production won’t grind to a halt as I embellished”
Thank you for clarifying. I sincerely appreciate that.
I’m out; wife needs attention more than you do. And I strongly suspect she’s better-lookin’ than you.
RW-(the original)
May 23rd, 2011
7:06 pm
So I said to myself, self, why don’t you peruse the comments before jumping in, but once I saw the Grim Reaper was already in the house on page 1 I figured I’d skip ahead. Did I miss any good bannings or anything?
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
7:07 pm
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/6607/obamacare-a-canadian-wait-time-preview/
Wonderful chart showing wait times in Canada.
Despite Barack Obama’s claim that ObamaCare isn’t like Canadian healthcare, that’s exactly what it’s like. And here’s a nice preview, courtesy of the Canadian province of Ontario’s falsely-named Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care, which marks the wait times for getting treatment for various ailments in Canada’s most populated province, the one that contains the “sophisticated” New York of Canada, Toronto. You know what’s great about our healthcare system? We don’t have wait time charts because we don’t have wait times. We get treated right away.
I’m not surprised by this scary chart because my cousing Myrna, who lived in Toronto, went blind waiting for the Canadian healthcare system to treat black spots in her eye. Then, she died.
Doggone/GA
May 23rd, 2011
7:09 pm
“radical Muslim atheists”
I think he actually said “secular” not atheist, didn’t he?
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
7:09 pm
If corporations gave a d**n about keeping Americans at work, then I’d have more sympathy for them. You and I have had this conversation before, Mr. Doom.
Indeed we have Joe.
@@
May 23rd, 2011
7:11 pm
Billybob:
Le Monde?
Allow me to clarify. “The love” ($$$) has only created more need.
I’m in agreement with Dennis Miller when he says “I’m for helping the helpless, not the clueless.” They’re long overdue in picking up some of the tab. It’s easy to remain clueless when someone else is paying for it.
I’m tired of the class warfare. Either we ALL pay more in taxes or NONE OF US pay more in taxes.
Government takes a political hit or a revenue hit. Works for me.
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
7:11 pm
Kamchak
May 23rd, 2011
7:03 pm
Investor’s Business Daily?- Kamchak
Kammy poo,
You having reading comprehension problems again? Allow me to help you out. The stats came from the world health organization. You a vay wee funny mon. No weading compwe hension. Vay wee funny. I say ha ha you so funny.
A recent “Investor’s Business Daily”
article provided very interesting
statistics from a survey by the United
Nations International Health
Organization.
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
7:14 pm
Anybody know where we can find a good socialist source for Kammy to read? I hear pravda went out of business in 1991. What’s a tired old commie to do when sources like surveys from the United Nation’s international health organization aren’t good enough.
F. Sinkwich
May 23rd, 2011
7:17 pm
Jay:
“Would you prefer Tim Pawlenty’s “we may lose our country,” SInkwich?”
Truth hurts, huh? If European socialists like you and Hopey/Changey get your way, it’s over. Our country will be lost.
We still have time to save it. That’s what the 2012 election will be about.
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
7:18 pm
RW
Mostly the same stuff as every day, some good one-liners, a cogent point or two, but mostly our usual tin drum concerto…typical day at Jay’s place…only one threat of fatwah…
Kamchak
May 23rd, 2011
7:19 pm
Calm down Thulsa.
No need for hysterics.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
May 23rd, 2011
7:21 pm
Helping the helpless not the clueless.
Well let see. The “helpless” would mean that they cannot be helped. But I am all for helping those in need and for trying to provide a way for them to become self-sustaining and a contributing member of society.
The “clueless” — there are many seemingly educated people who are clueless. Especially when their simple answers to complicated issues are capsulized by bumper stickers, pundits and comedians.
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
7:25 pm
Well of course the British love their health care system! That’s why they consider it to be such a big problem of course. Monday May 23rd article. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/181389.html
A new survey shows more than 26 percent of the British people now consider National Health Service (NHS) as one of the most significant problems facing the UK.
The survey commissioned by The Economist/MORI index said the coalition government’s plan to reform healthcare is now the third biggest problem for which the British people have great concerns.
TaxPayer
May 23rd, 2011
7:29 pm
Uh Oh, Jay done dropped the radical Muslim athiest card.
MarkV
May 23rd, 2011
7:31 pm
Thulsa Doom @7:01 pm “All I know is that you’re much better off having cancer over here than in Britain or Canada. Facts is facts sir.”
I think you said it well, that it is all you know. If you go to a third world country without universal health care you will be even worse off than in Britain and Canada. What does that prove: Nothing.
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
7:32 pm
Kamchak,
I can’t help it. I’m alarmingly distressed that there’s no Pravda for you to read. Hey. I just figured it out! You can watch MSNBC for your lib news. If you’re anything like Chris Matthews you’ll get a tingle up your leg when Obama speaks. Obama as Newsweek stated is sorta like a God you know- above it all, just looking down on it all- sorta like a God.
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
7:37 pm
MarkV,
Showing your ignorance again? Ever do any reading about medical tourism? There’s a growing movement by Americans to go to places like India for surgeries. I would much rather have a surgery done in India than say Staffordshire hospital in England.
Perhaps you should examine why the Brits, who have had a national system since WW 1 or 2, are now going in the opposite direction of what we’re doing. It doesn’t work genius. Do some reading and perhaps you’ll learn that. Go on. Git to doing some research sir.
Thulsa Doom
May 23rd, 2011
7:38 pm
I’m out. I’ve had way too much fun today toying with the zombies today. Kammy I just saw Obama on the news. Go get that tingle up your leg Kammy!
josef nix
May 23rd, 2011
7:39 pm
Thulsa
Who needs Pravda when we’ve got the AJC?
kayaker 71
May 23rd, 2011
7:39 pm
A simple return to being responsible for our actions, not blaming others for the bad choices you make and taking responsibility for the children you bring into this world would go a long way toward making this country whole again. It’s always someone else’s fault, society is against me, I cannot cope….. the list goes on. We have way too many people sucking off of the government teat. We need responsible citizens who pay their own bills, pay taxes, support the children that they bring into this world and stay off the bad stuff. I’m tired of paying their bills.
@@
May 23rd, 2011
7:44 pm
Keep:
The “clueless” — there are many seemingly educated people who are clueless. Especially when their simple answers to complicated issues are capsulized by bumper stickers, pundits and comedians
Among the clueless?
Morbidly obese.
Chronically unemployed.
Smokers.
Drug addicts.
High school drop outs.
Those deep in debt.
The sexually promiscuous.
This clueless moron was at a MoveOn rally.
@@
May 23rd, 2011
7:45 pm
Add alcoholics to the list of clueless.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
May 23rd, 2011
7:48 pm
Why some posters know soooo much about healthcare here in the US and in other countries that they simply gloss over some real facts in their glowing reviews:
US rates also vary significantly depending on region and race: New York City scored the worst, apart from rectal cancer in women, which was the worst in Wyoming, Hawaii scored the best in US for all cancers. Idaho was the best with rectal cancer survival rate, and Seattle was the best with prostate cancer survival rate. White patients were more likely to live longer than black patients with better scores at 7% for prostate cancer and 14% for breast cancer….Researchers suggest that such a huge difference in cancer survival rates depends upon access to health care. Most countries have necessary means to detect cancers and time and provide with proper treatment, but not all patients are able to pay for diagnosis and treatment.
So when you crassly talk about where you prefer to have your cancer, perhaps you may want to look at all of the factors. In fact, women in France has the highest rate for survival of colon and rectal cancer.
Again, some answers and analysis are not easy for a bumper sticker mentality.