Grover Norquist and the GOP’s purity pledge
U.S. Sen. Saxby Chambliss, like Senate colleague Johnny Isakson and seven of Georgia’s eight GOP congressmen, has signed a public pledge to never, under any circumstances, increase taxes.
Yet Chambliss, to his credit, has been working for months as one of six senators — three Republican, three Democrat — trying to negotiate a possible deficit reduction package.
The other two Republicans in that group, Tom Coburn of Oklahoma and Mike Crapo of Idaho — have also signed the no-tax-increase-ever pledge. Yet all three are willing to acknowledge the reality that increased taxes would have to be part — in their minds a small part — of any workable deal to reduce the budget deficit.
In a meeting at the AJC last month, Chambliss recounted conversations with many of his colleagues in Washington, as well as many top business executives, in which they quietly encouraged him in his efforts to reach a deal. They too seem to realize that a mixture of spending cuts and tax increases will be needed to stabilize the debt.
But that response has been far from unanimous.
Just this week, House Speaker John Boehner said tax increases are “off the table,” and Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell was even more point blank:
“We’re not going to raise taxes. That was decided in last November’s election. I think the American people pretty clearly believe that we have the deficit problem because we spend too much, not because we tax too little.”
Grover Norquist, the head of Americans for Tax Reform and as such the self-ordained organizer, marketer and enforcer of the no-new-taxes pledge, had even less reason to be pleased. Once news of their effort became public, Norquist accused Chambliss and his GOP colleagues of lying to the American people and demanded that they withdraw from negotiations.
While the senators have not bowed to that demand, hope seems to be fading that their effort will produce a deal. And it’s impossible to know what effect, if any, Norquist’s foot-stomping may have had on frustrating those negotiations.
However, there’s no doubt that Norquist takes his role as enforcer seriously, and not merely out of conviction. The pledge, which he serves as sponsor and arbiter, represents the very foundation of his political power and relevance. It is, in effect, his livelihood. If signatories such as Chambliss ever begin to abandon the pledge, if the dam begins to break, Norquist becomes a much diminished figure.
As one measure of his considerable power, earlier this year Georgia Republicans refused to move forward with their proposal to revamp the state’s tax structure until Norquist could be consulted and give it his blessing. When Norquist balked, legislators then agreed to rewrite the bill to accommodate his demands.
That’s a remarkable amount of authority to hand some unelected, out-of-state nonprofit bureaucrat from Washington. But it becomes easier to understand once you look at the list of state officials who have committed themselves to the Norquist pledge.
According to a list on Norquist’s website, Gov. Nathan Deal, House Speaker David Ralston, Senate Majority Leader Chip Rogers, House Ways and Means Chairman Larry O’Neal, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Bill Heath and 50 other legislators have all signed an oath to never, under any conditions, agree to raise government revenue.
As the crotchety Coburn from Oklahoma put it, responding to Norquist:
“Which pledge is most important… the pledge to uphold your oath to the Constitution of the United States or a pledge from a special interest group who claims to speak for all American conservatives when, in fact, they really don’t?”
– Jay Bookman
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290 comments Add your comment
Mr_B
May 13th, 2011
7:55 am
Enter your comments here
PJ
May 13th, 2011
7:57 am
When America resembles Haiti may then we will realize that taxes are a necessary evil.
Mr_B
May 13th, 2011
7:58 am
First?
Granny Godzilla
May 13th, 2011
7:59 am
Would that be the Grover Norquist linked to Casino Jack Abramoff and the Tom Coburn linked to the Ensign Scandal just referred to the DOJ?
Purity? Really?
PJ
May 13th, 2011
8:00 am
Mr_B @7:58 am – I’m not sure if “enter your comments here” counts when it comes to first.
stands for decibels
May 13th, 2011
8:00 am
When America resembles Haiti
I would hope that we’d have the good sense to drown Grover Norquist in a bathtub before that happens.
independent voter
May 13th, 2011
8:01 am
Saxby- you have made me rethink voting for the Democrats in the next election. Tell the tea baggers and other hypocrites who live on government subsidies but want no new taxes to go where the sun don’t shine. (Like Michelle Bachman whose husband gets $250,000 in farm subsidies).
Gale
May 13th, 2011
8:05 am
I think “crotchety Coburn” has it right, and our legislators better reread the Constitution because they were not paying attention the last time.
Mick
May 13th, 2011
8:05 am
Why they all kow tow to grover is mystifying. “Starving the beast” and “drown in a bathtub” are this man’s handiwork. Someday, hopefully soon, this ideology will be recognized for what it is, a dismal pox on this nation….
ty webb
May 13th, 2011
8:06 am
or would that be the grover norquist who was not linked with the Charlie Rangel scandal or John Edwards scandal?
Gale
May 13th, 2011
8:10 am
Just because wealthy special interests who contribute to their campaigns don’t want them to raise taxes, doesn’t mean they should not do so. Most middle Americans understand that when you have a negative cash flow and too much debt, you have to do more than just cut out the non-essential spending. You may have to get a second job or work more hours to get back on top of things. Our Congress critters act like they never saw a budget.
Normal
May 13th, 2011
8:10 am
Good morning all…
Anybody who seriously thinks that you can reduce the deficit without raising taxes believes in unicorns. Start by reducing,/eliminating oil ans agriculture subsidies, and cut/reduce military spending.
And before you touch social spending, reduce Congressional salaries by say, 15 to 20%. Then, at least, you’d know who was in it for the money and who was in it for the country.
Me
May 13th, 2011
8:11 am
More and more Grover Norquist seems like a white Jesse Jackson.
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
8:12 am
“Our Congress critters act like they never saw a budget.”
Most of them probably never have. That’s what accountants are for, right? And most of them act like petulant children anyway.
kayaker 71
May 13th, 2011
8:16 am
Ah, the age old battle between taxing and spending. Perhaps we could create a pledge that would keep spending at 2008 levels. What will it take to convince supposedly intelligent people that the more you spend, the more taxes you will need? If you don’t spend so much, you don’t need as much revenue. My five year old grandson even knows this. It is grade school economics, lost on those who chose to ignore it and there for those with just a little common sense.
andygrdzki
May 13th, 2011
8:18 am
The other day when I proposed a Georgia Income Tax increase to cover the costs of illegal immigration (medical, education, etc) , none of you supported it… nary a one…. Now you are talking about the Repubs not increasing taxes…. Either support and stand up for taxes increases or stop whining… Granny talked about the poor refugees,,, well, are we going to support it or not….. a lot of lip service but no action ……
PJ
May 13th, 2011
8:18 am
Normal @8:10 am – Exactly, while everyone else is being downsized, having hours cut, struggling to pay medical bills, hoping your not in the next round of layoffs, and in general “keeping your head above water, making your way if you can”, Congress gets to make all the decisions but make none of the financial sacrifices that the average American has to make.
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
8:18 am
““Our Congress critters act like they never saw a budget.””
You mean the Democrats who…OOPS!!!..didn’t pass one last year?
PJ
May 13th, 2011
8:20 am
kayaker 71 @8:16 am – “Are you smarter than a Fifth Grader (or a five year old”.
Irwin M. Fletcher
May 13th, 2011
8:21 am
No one likes taxes, and given the choice, I’m sure all Americans would opt not to pay them. However, the reality is our country requires them in order to function. I don’t have children, but my taxes pay for schools. I have never needed the assistance of the Fire or Police Department, but my taxes help to keep those entitys working in case someone else needs them. As the population increases, so do the needs, so inherently the taxes will always need to be adjusted, usually upwards. Unfortunately, a majority of the population seems to have embraced the mantra of “We don’t have an income problem, we have a spending problem” which the politicians are only too happy to encourage. Let the Bush era tax cuts expire ACROSS THE BOARD and be realistic about our checks and balances.
Granny Godzilla
May 13th, 2011
8:21 am
ty webb
May 13th, 2011
8:06 am
or would that be the grover norquist who was not linked with the Charlie Rangel scandal or John Edwards scandal?
correct, and I imagine we agree that it’s a good thing stinkers like Rangel and Edwards aren’t involved in this project – now about Norquist and Coburn…..?
jt
May 13th, 2011
8:22 am
“of authority to hand some unelected, out-of-state nonprofit bureaucrat from Washington. ”
A bureaucrat is a member of a bureaucracy and can comprise the administration of any organization of any size, though the term USUALLY connotes someone within an institution of a government.
Furthermore, Norquist is the HEAD of his orginization.
Thus , your claim that Norquist is a “bureaucrat” is wrong…You sir,are in error.
Thank you.
Mick
May 13th, 2011
8:23 am
**If you don’t spend so much, you don’t need as much revenue. My five year old grandson even knows this.**
Then why did we choose to fight two wars with two tax cuts? Does that make a lick of sense?
Good little liberal
May 13th, 2011
8:23 am
Gasp!! Government people who do not want to raise taxes during the worst economy in our lifetime. Say it ain’t so. But, but, but the government doesn’t have enough power. There aren’t enough people on welfare. We must do everything we can to give the government more and more power.
We must support Democrats because they want the best for all of us. They want to tell us how to live, how to think and if we dare to achieve we must be punished. Because as we all know, failure is the American way.
Hail Obama!! Hail Obama!!!
Warren G. Harding
May 13th, 2011
8:24 am
the grover norquist who was not linked with the Charlie Rangel scandal or John Edwards scandal?
What about me? What was the Teapot Dome scandal, chopped liver? Doesn’t anyone care any more?
TaxPayer
May 13th, 2011
8:24 am
Rush must really be upset with this Grover character for stealing all his shoe-shine boys.
Irwin M. Fletcher
May 13th, 2011
8:25 am
GLL – “We need taxes? So we don’t have any now? Well, we must get us some taxes.”
You were obviously the head of your debate team in college.
Good little liberal
May 13th, 2011
8:25 am
Irwin M. Fletcher
We need taxes? So we don’t have any now? Well, we must get us some taxes.
PJ
May 13th, 2011
8:26 am
Me @8:11 am – “If you must raise taxes then I will send you mean faxes. We don’t need public schools lets just raise a bunch of fools. Keep dopes alive, keep dopes alive.”
Gale
May 13th, 2011
8:27 am
Normal, good call at 8:10. That Congress voted themselves automatic raises so they would not have to show that yearly vote is just criminal. And they have the nerve to complain about unions doing things like that! If many of them worked in private business, they would be out the door in a RIF. “We don’t really need non-performers here.”
Keep Up the Good Fight!
May 13th, 2011
8:28 am
We taking bets on how the righties and conservatives will duck and dodge the question today about a pledge to a man rather than following their pledge to the country? We already see them trotting out the talking points — the 2011 budget that the “Dems” did not pass (never mind the realty of the politics that led to that including republicans actions).
Oh why oh why can’t the cons just admit its never Country First, its Cons First and the real conjob is its rich cons in the front of the line.
Yahtzee
May 13th, 2011
8:29 am
Jay,
The end of this sentence, “legislators have all signed an oath to never, under any conditions, agree to raise government revenue”, is misleading. They didnt sign an oath saying that at all, they signed an oath to not raises TAXES. Yes I understand that you equate taxes to revenues, but there are other raise to raise revenues without raising taxes. Wouldn’t it be more beneficial and successful to increase the tax base, rather than increasing taxes on those who already pay taxes? We have by historical records one of the lowest tax bases currently because of the sluggish economy, but more importantly we need tax code reform.
TaxPayer
May 13th, 2011
8:29 am
Government people who do not want to raise taxes during the worst economy in our lifetime.
Odd. That’s not what I hear from the wealthiest. They say the economy is great, they’re making billions so you must be doing something wrong.
Good little liberal
May 13th, 2011
8:29 am
PJ
We need taxes to pay for public schools? Wow. that’s a real change because before, the money fairy just left big baskets of money on the doors of our schools. I guess we need to start paying taxes.
Joe The Plumber too.
May 13th, 2011
8:29 am
Just over 18 months until the poor little bedwetters will start screaming ” It’s not fair, the election was stolen, it was a racist action” or any one of a hundred other excuses the crybabies come up with. barry the boy blunder is going back to that armpit of a city he came from, but at least he will be able to stay in the news by jumping at every photo op to cozy up to every dictator like his hero peanut head carter. Can’t wait to hear the wails of misery when the libs false messiah is sent packing.
Good little liberal
May 13th, 2011
8:31 am
TaxPayer
That’s because the wealthy are eeeeevil. We must punish them. It’s not American to achieve. Only to be a ward of this glorious efficient government.
Hail Obama. Hail Obama!!!!
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
8:32 am
“(never mind the realty of the politics that led to that including republicans actions)”
Oh yes, yes, the politics of it. Like how the election was so close that Democrats in the House didn’t even send one to the Senate to vote on? So what Republican actions are you talking about exactly? If it was “Country First”, Keep, those chicken sh*t Liberals would have passed a budget. All the bickering earlier this year with passing 2 weeks here, 3 weeks there, would have never happened if the Democrats had stepped up to the plate LAST YEAR. Blame it on “Republican actions” if it’s makes you sleep better at night though, Keep.
As for the topic, “U.S. Sen. Saxby Chambliss, like Senate colleague Johnny Isakson and seven of Georgia’s eight GOP congressmen, has signed a public pledge to never, under any circumstances, increase taxes.” – It’s pretty simple. Those GOP Congressmen are morons. Simple enough for ya?
ty webb
May 13th, 2011
8:32 am
Granny,
Not sure what your point is.
Irwin M. Fletcher
May 13th, 2011
8:35 am
GLL – “That’s because the wealthy are eeeeevil. We must punish them. It’s not American to achieve. Only to be a ward of this glorious efficient government.”
No, we’re not evil, we just know how to use the tax codes to our advantage. Any increase to my taxes will be off set by the amount of deductions write offs I’m allowed to take. In addition, by diverting money through the various unitrusts, I’m not liable for any capital gains taxes. Therefore, go ahead and raise the taxes on my income bracket. I’ll survive.
cosby smith
May 13th, 2011
8:35 am
I really do not care who spear heads the no tax campaign. the Federal Government has a spending problem and not a revenue problem. 52% of US Citizens pay no taxes, so whose taxes are they going to raise. Taxes are a form of confisciation by the Government basciallly saying we can spend the money better and more wisley than you, the citizen. Time to get off the train as it is headed for a complete wreck. Tax and spend by the government elitist does not work. Put the Fair Tax in place, dump the 16th amendment and sit back and enjou the ride. Endowment for the Arts, bail out of big wallstreet elite, bail out of union destroyed GM and Crysler, Payments to the UN that want to take the US over…get over it..it is a spending problem, not a revenue problem
Gale
May 13th, 2011
8:36 am
It is not a problem of Democrats or Republicans. It is politicians who go to Washington to line their pockets instead of stewarding the peoples’ business.
ty webb
May 13th, 2011
8:37 am
“It is politicians who go to Washington to line their pockets instead of stewarding the peoples’ business.”
If true, then here’s an idea…stop giving them more money.
PJ
May 13th, 2011
8:37 am
Good little liberal @8:29 am – What???????????? Sorry I don’t understand Pig Latin that well but ry tay to peak say ngilsh esy lease pay.
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
8:37 am
“It’s not American to achieve.” – It’s very American to achieve. But instead of raising their taxes to do stuff useful like high speed rail, better roads, more police, cleaner energy which would perfectly acceptable…Liberals want to raise taxes on the wealthy to they can have more entitlement programs/buy votes/send money off to other countries to please the world…and there in lies the problem.
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
8:39 am
BTW, Luckovich’s cartoon today is absolutely hilarious!!
http://blogs.ajc.com/mike-luckovich/?cxntlid=sldr_hm
I thought I saw a poody tat!!! I did I did see a poody tat!!!!!!!
kayaker 71
May 13th, 2011
8:39 am
Irwin M Fletcher,
I don’t think that anyone is talking about eliminating your fire and police protection, as well as cutting the budget for your local schools. If the tax increases proposed were for these purposes, the raise would probably be legitimate. But they are not. Congress does not provide the revenue for your local police and fire dept nor does it send the children in your neighborhood to school. Congress provides the revenue for things like Medicare, Social Security, the military, oil subsidies, ag subsidies, the gazillions of unneeded agencies and government depts that are redundant as teats on a boar hog and the 2,823,777 government employees that were paid $15,105,511,892 in 2009. There are over 65,000 jobs in the US government that pay in excess of 120K/yr. Bozo’s stimulus package that did absolutely no good to create jobs, cost the US taxpayer over 750B dollars. That’s the kind of spending I am talking about, Mr. Fletcher. Our government is so bloated with waste as to make a grade school economist shake his head. And you want more money to feed the beast. You should change your name to Jabba the Hut.
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
8:39 am
“52% of US Citizens pay no taxes”
This was not intended to be a factual statement.
Good little liberal
May 13th, 2011
8:40 am
Irwin M. Fletcher
See!?!?
You are eeeeevil. If you weren’t evil, you would be poor like everybody else.
Have your Come to Jesus moment and give all your money to the government so they can give it to needy people. It’s the American way.
jm
May 13th, 2011
8:41 am
I love Coburn. He’s great.
Mick
May 13th, 2011
8:42 am
Jay – I got to hand it to you, you sure know how to get the cons flying off the rails on an early friday morning, hail bookman!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
May 13th, 2011
8:42 am
Those GOP Congressmen are morons
Well we can agree on that.
Don't Tread
May 13th, 2011
8:42 am
Cut spending first…get rid of the waste. (note: hell will freeze over first.)
“Hail Obama”
Sieg Heil Obama.
retired early
May 13th, 2011
8:42 am
Colburn is the lone GOP leader capable of thinking for himself. How utterly cowardly of these politicians to allow one man to tell them how to vote, when they are supposed to act in the best interest of the people who elected them. Anyone who voted for these puppets should be PO’d enough to vote them out at the first opportunity. Colburn is the only one who deserves to be reelected.
godless heathen
May 13th, 2011
8:43 am
I try to stay on topic, but hope you will all tolerate this diversion, although it is related to taxes.
Headline from the ajc: Towns may be flooded to save New Orleans
FEMA trying to determine where the Republicans live so they can get flooded this time?
Gotta save that fish bowl New Orleans again. Rebuilding the New Orleans levees is just resetting the trap.
Donovan
May 13th, 2011
8:43 am
I’ll remind all of you liberals that it was your doings that put us in this deficit mess. It is a fact that when you people get into power, your agenda is to tax and spend. Since 2006 the Democrats have maxed out this country’s credit card with such a vengence that their only recourse is to tax their way back to fiscal viability. However, this time they have gone too far. Their ridiculous idea of trying to tax only the wealthy is a joke. Not only is it discriminatory, it is a plan that won’t help. This Democrat rabble running the country has run up such a huge tab that only massive cuts in Democrat entitlements figure into the cure. Since the Democrat play book page on taxing and spending does not work now, the next play book page on blaming the Republicans for the spending problem and their stand on no new taxs is now woefully in play now. The American people do not want anymore spending. The fragile economy does not need increased taxation. Figure it out Democrats. So far you all are opposed to cutting up your credit cards. You made your bed, so sleep in it. It’s a whole new ball game now. What worked for you in the past no longer is a viable option. Your goose that laid the golden egg has flown the coop. Bite the bullet, cut up the credit card, and start cutting.
Good little liberal
May 13th, 2011
8:44 am
Peadawg
Democrats are very wise. By raising money on very wealthy people, they an have more power so they will always be in charge. And just look at how well they have managed the economy since they took over in 2006.
They are almost like GODS!!!
Hail Obama. Hail Obama!!! He;s our God and he will lead us to the promised land where there are no more evil wealthy people.
Irwin M. Fletcher
May 13th, 2011
8:44 am
Kayaker – “Mr. Fletcher. Our government is so bloated with waste as to make a grade school economist shake his head. And you want more money to feed the beast. You should change your name to Jabba the Hut.”
Never said that “I” want more money. I simply made the point that taxes are necessary and as the population increases so does the spending. If you don’t like paying taxes, take advantage of the tax code. Use your investments to generate income and utilize the various financial options available to everyone to decrease your liablity. It’s not rocket science.
stands for decibels
May 13th, 2011
8:45 am
As one measure of his considerable power, earlier this year Georgia Republicans refused to move forward with their proposal to revamp the state’s tax structure until Norquist could be consulted and give it his blessing. When Norquist balked, legislators then agreed to rewrite the bill to accommodate his demands.
Does Grover have a cache of these guys frolicking about in interracial gay escapes, captured on video? Because that’d explain a lot. Otherwise, that GA GOPers would give veto power to some freak most Georgians have never even heard of… well the word “dereliction of duty” comes to mind.
anyway, gotta go fill the bathtub. Later, all.
stands for decibels
May 13th, 2011
8:45 am
oy. Escapades. Not Escapes. I beez stoopit this morning (as opposed to all other days…)
/db
Irwin M. Fletcher
May 13th, 2011
8:46 am
GLL – “Have your Come to Jesus moment and give all your money to the government so they can give it to needy people. It’s the American way.”
I give what’s required of me.
Left wing management
May 13th, 2011
8:46 am
GROVER NORQUIST = RIGOR MORTIS in the joints of an empire that’s out of ideas and losing the will to govern itself
carlosgvv
May 13th, 2011
8:47 am
Jay, I have been watching for some time now part of my tax money going to support Pakistan, a country we now know was almost certainly shielding Bin Ladin. I also see my tax money going to other countries in “foreign aid” who have nothing but contempt for us. And you wonder why the American people are so against any more taxes? And, lets not even talk about all the tax money wasted in this country on pork and other useless projects.
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
8:48 am
“Hail Obama. Hail Obama!!! He;s our God and he will lead us to the promised land where there are no more evil wealthy people.” – Hopefully his promise land includes 72 slutty chicks instead of 72 virgins….
” It is a fact that when you people get into power, your agenda is to tax and spend.” – Except this time the moron-in-chief extended the tax cuts, but kept spending.
Mick
May 13th, 2011
8:48 am
donovan
Seek medical help immediately, too many acid trips has landed you in….bizarro repub world where up is down and dirty is clean. You can be saved….
Gator Joe
May 13th, 2011
8:48 am
We should call the Republicans’ bluff on refusal to raise the debt ceiling. I would love to see them pitted against their wealthy, wall-street benefactors. As for the Republicans walking into negotiations with “Tax increases are off the table”, a simple response for them, “Don’t the door hit you in the a–.”
Just wait...
May 13th, 2011
8:49 am
The republicans have taken on the worst and most detrimental aspect of the Tea Party, at their own peril. There are giving ultimatums (threats) and refuse to negotiate to do what is right for this country. They are like a stubborn dog planting his paws in the ground, refusing to budge. Well, perhaps they need a good yank on the leash – yanking them right out of Washington.
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
8:49 am
“We already see them trotting out the talking points — the 2011 budget that the “Dems” did not pass (never mind the realty of the politics that led to that including republicans actions). ”
Weak as usual, Keep. It couldn’t possibly be the Democrat’s fault for not passing something as simple as a budget. It MUST have had something to do with those pesky Republicans WHO DIDN’T HAVE A MAJORITY IN EITHER HOUSE OF CONGRESS!
The stark reality is that Dems refuse to acknowledge their failures. Period. Nothing to see here. Move on. Those titles of Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader mean nothing. Really; no really – nothing to see here.
A majority of Americans didn’t like our HCR? Not our fault. They just don’t understand what’s in it.
Spend about a trillion dollars to stimulate the economy with little to show for it? Not our fault.
Disrespect the office of the President by inviting a rapper to the White House who threatened to burn my predecessor? No problem. Really. He’s just a “poet”.
Cash for Clunkers spending an average of $45+k per car taken off the road? Not our fault.
Increased spending even when income levels were dropping like a stone? Couldn’t be us. WE weren’t in control of the House for the past 4 years. That must have been someone else.
Get handed the biggest electoral loss since the 1920’s? That wasn’t any mandate because the Republicans till look worse than us in national polls.
Democrats are the poster child for dodging personal responsibility.
Left wing management
May 13th, 2011
8:50 am
Mitch McConnell: “We’re not going to raise taxes. That was decided in last November’s election. I think the American people pretty clearly believe that we have the deficit problem because we spend too much, not because we tax too little”
This is delusion of Jared Loughner-proportions.
RIGOR MORTIS in the joints of empire
Rome here we come.
Good little liberal
May 13th, 2011
8:51 am
Well, it’s been fun.
It’s always fun to watch the people who spend every day of their lives on this blog demanding that the government raises taxes. They are here all day so they are either unemployed, not paying taxes, retired, paying little or no taxes or independently wealthy and paying few taxes.
I need to get to work so I can pay more taxes and make you guys all happy. After all. according to the people on this blog, if we don’t pay more taxes, we won’t have fire and police protection and our schools will close, all taken from local taxes.
Have fun guys. I’m sure you will figure out lots of ways to insult people who don’t agree with you.
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
8:51 am
We should call the Democrats’ bluff on refusal to cur taxes.
Fixed your typo, Gator. Go back to Gainesville with your mullet and jean shorts.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
May 13th, 2011
8:51 am
Except this time the moron-in-chief extended the tax cuts
Translation:
Except this time the Republican morons demanded that the tax cuts include those who did not need them to stimulate the economy left in devastation by the Republican morons and to avoid going off the cliff, the President reluctantly agreed and the Republican morons and the Dems in Congress passed the bill and the President signed it.
Irwin M. Fletcher
May 13th, 2011
8:52 am
GLL – “I need to get to work so I can pay more taxes and make you guys all happy.”
Sounds like Wealth Envy.
ragnar danneskjold
May 13th, 2011
8:53 am
The flaw in the leftist calculation is that misguided belief that tax incre-ases are necessary. Almost none of the nonmilitary spending is necessary. Most of the Federal agencies exist only to diminish the private sector, through misguided regulation and economically-unsound civil litigation. Waste on waste. The only valid functions any government serves are (1) killing those who should be killed, (2) depriving freedom of those who threaten others, and (3) confiscating wealth. Our government forces are putting too much emphasis on items (2) and (3), to the detriment of the private economy.
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
8:54 am
*cur* should be *cut* @ 8:51
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
8:54 am
and it should also be CUT SPENDING @ 8:51
yikes…
Paul
May 13th, 2011
8:55 am
“GOP’s purity pledge”
I notice they never answer, pure what?
This explains why, when I asked a couple conservative bloggers yesterday, I never got an answer to ‘what’s a RINO? A conservative vs a ‘true’ conservative?
It’s because they’re embarrassed. And can’t stand the realization they’re being played by others.
It all makes sense, now -
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
8:55 am
” the President reluctantly agreed”
Translation:
The President needs to grow a backbone if he knew it wasn’t the right thing to do.
(ir)Rational
May 13th, 2011
8:56 am
Keep – I would like to know how the Republicans held so much power last December when the taxes weren’t raised, if they didn’t control either House of Congress? I thought it was the Democrats that were still in charge when they didn’t raise taxes?
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
8:57 am
“The President needs to grow a backbone if he knew it wasn’t the right thing to do”
Maybe the Republicans should grow a backbone too. After all, it was THEY who caved to the President on extending the UE benefits in the same bill.
Good little liberal
May 13th, 2011
8:57 am
Irwin M. Fletcher
I always wonder about people who come to blogs bragging that they are wealthy. All that money and nothing better to do than come to a blog and brag about having all that money.
Pretty pathetic really.
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
8:57 am
“This explains why, when I asked a couple conservative bloggers yesterday, I never got an answer to ‘what’s a RINO? A conservative vs a ‘true’ conservative?”
Or maybe your questions were irrelevant?
Just expanding the probabilities . . .
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
8:58 am
“Headline from the ajc: Towns may be flooded to save New Orleans”
“With that threat looming, some 25,000 people in an area known for small farms, fish camps, crawfish and a drawling French dialect are hurriedly packing their things and worrying that their homes and way of life might soon be drowned.”
So to save the dump, disgusting city that is New Orleans, they are going to flood farms and fish camps? Nice….
Left wing management
May 13th, 2011
8:58 am
Paul: “I notice they never answer, pure what? ”
Precisely the right question!! I love it.
The purity of the corpse lying on the slab.
Rigor mortis of empire.
Gator Joe
May 13th, 2011
8:59 am
Thanks for correcting my typo, and Peadawg I wouldn’t dare copy your taste in hair and fashion, or your ingnorance.
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
9:00 am
“After all, it was THEY who caved to the President on extending the UE benefits in the same bill.” – Which would have been fine if we had the money to pay for them (i.e. higher taxes). Sorry, Doggie, Obama should had been the leader on this one. But see it as you will.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:00 am
from george will. amen.
The lesson of all this is that one’s sense of possibilities — and proprieties — is shaped by what we know, and often do not know, about history. The regnant ideology within the Obama administration and among congressional Democrats is reactionary liberalism, the conviction that whatever government programs exist should forever exist because they always have existed. That is, as baby boomers, in their narcissism — or perhaps solipsism; or both — understand “always.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/history-lessons-for-obama-and-other-liberals/2011/05/11/AFXxmdsG_story.html?hpid=z4
(ir)Rational
May 13th, 2011
9:01 am
Peadawg – it goes back to laws enacted in the 20s (don’t quote me on the when, but I believe it was in that time frame) that made it the Army Corps of Engineer’s #1 priority with the Mississippi to save the towns like Memphis and New Orleans in the case of floods like this.
PJ
May 13th, 2011
9:01 am
Good little liberal’s job must be in his john. He sure got to work quick.
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
9:01 am
“that made it the Army Corps of Engineer’s #1 priority with the Mississippi to save the towns like Memphis and New Orleans in the case of floods like this”
And that is because the cost of restoring infrastructure in major port and economic centers is FAR more expensive than for small towns.
Irwin M. Fletcher
May 13th, 2011
9:01 am
GLL – ” always wonder about people who come to blogs bragging that they are wealthy. All that money and nothing better to do than come to a blog and brag about having all that money.”
I haven’t “bragged” about anything. I’ve merely pointed out that there are a number of ways to keep your money in your pocket and still pay the required taxes.
RB from Gwinnett
May 13th, 2011
9:01 am
““Which pledge is most important… the pledge to uphold your oath to the Constitution of the United States or a pledge from a special interest group ”
Good question Jay. And for you, is it more important for you to uphold the standards of a journalist or to be a hyper partisan hack doing the bidding of the DNC on here every day?
Pot meet kettle.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:02 am
retired early 8:42 – not intended to be a factual statement. Not to mention, RE is so clueless he can’t even spell the guy’s name correctly.
Left wing management
May 13th, 2011
9:03 am
We’re Rome, but without a future Caesar to march against the stiff-jointed.
In other words, we’re all but doomed.
Just wait...
May 13th, 2011
9:03 am
Good little liberal
May 13th, 2011
8:31 am
That’s because the wealthy are eeeeevil. We must punish them. It’s not American to achieve. Only to be a ward of this glorious efficient government.
That is not it at all GLL and you know it. It is expected that the wealthy pay their share. Instead, you have the truly wealthy paying just 15% on capital gains, while the middle class pays 25 – 33%. There are NO wealthy people out there paying 35% with all of their tax breaks and capital gains. Pay your share.
And the argument that 50% of citizens don’t pay taxes is pathetic, especially when the bottom 80% of this country has just 15% of the wealth.
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
9:03 am
” that made it the Army Corps of Engineer’s #1 priority”
Um…it should had been the Army Corps of Engineer’s #1 priority to not build a city under sea level right on the edge of the Gulf of Mexico. Just sayin….
@@
May 13th, 2011
9:03 am
Proposed spending cuts are nowhere near what they should be. “No new taxes” until?
It’s the only leverage we’ve got. Vedder & Galloway…”For every $1.00 they take in, government will find a way to spend $1.59. History has proven that it will NOT be used to reduce the deficit.
Either everyone outside D.C. feels the pain, or D.C., alone, feels the pain.
I vote for D.C. (Deficit Crash).
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
9:04 am
“it should had been the Army Corps of Engineer’s #1 priority not build a city under sea level right on the edge of the Gulf of Mexico”
Don’t know much about history, do you?
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:04 am
From Joe Klein at Time
Why Obama’s Not a Lock
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2070953,00.html
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:05 am
“Don’t know much about history, do you?” Mirror mirror, on the wall…..
Paul
May 13th, 2011
9:07 am
Dave R.
“Or maybe your questions were irrelevant?”
“Just expanding the probabilities . . .”
of how to duck a question?
Left wing management
May 13th, 2011
9:08 am
Why Obama’s not a lock?
Because Mitch Daniels hasn’t said whether he’ll run or not.
Yahtzee
May 13th, 2011
9:08 am
who cares which party contributed more to the debt and who raised taxes here or there…does pointing the finger fix our problems?
we need tax code reform to end all of this crap, until we have a tax code that doesnt benefit some kind of special interest we will never get out of this mess
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
9:08 am
What will it take to convince supposedly intelligent people that the more you spend, the more taxes you will need? If you don’t spend so much, you don’t need as much revenue.
Sure. However, to pay down the debt, you will need more revenue than what what you spend. THere’s no way to cut government back that much without doing damage to the country as a whole, or is this just a way of doing away with the USA and starting a new “Conservative” country by way of bloodless coup?
ty: “It is politicians who go to Washington to line their pockets instead of stewarding the peoples’ business.”
If true, then here’s an idea…stop giving them more money.
It’s not taxpayer money that’s lining their pockets. Remember how much is spent in campaign donations and such???
On topic:
Maybe we need to shrink special interest groups until they are small enough to drown in a bathtub.
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
9:08 am
“THere’s no way to cut government back that much without doing damage to the country as a whole”
And even if you DO cut spending back that far, you STILL need to take in more than you spend to pay down the debt.
Adam
May 13th, 2011
9:10 am
Normal: And before you touch social spending, reduce Congressional salaries by say, 15 to 20%. Then, at least, you’d know who was in it for the money and who was in it for the country.
To be fair, that’s useless. Nearly all of them have income independent of this.
Good little liberal
May 13th, 2011
9:10 am
Enter your comments here
Paul
May 13th, 2011
9:10 am
@@
“”For every $1.00 they take in, government will find a way to spend $1.59. History has proven that it will NOT be used to reduce the deficit.”
Democratic proposal is to cut a couple billion in subsidies for the top 5 oil companies and apply the savings directly to deficit reduction.
It’s a start.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:10 am
SoCo 9:08 – the odds of us ever running a budget surplus for more than a year or two are between slim and none….
Once politicians see a money bucket, the only know one thing to do with it: spend…..
kayaker 71
May 13th, 2011
9:11 am
Mr. Fletcher,
I know how to get creative when April 15th rolls around. that’s not the problem. I can dodge a tax with the best of them. The reality is that the stimulus (inane government spending) was supposed to create jobs with “shovel ready projects” that “would revitalize our economy and get us back on our feet”. Unemployment is still at a reported 8.9%, although probably closer to 14%. I have said this before but it bears repeating. Bozo will not be re-elected with the present unemployment rate. No president has ever been elected with an unemployment rate above 8%. To reduce the rate to 8% before Nov 2012, he will have to “create” 187K jobs/month….. and that’s just getting it to 8%. Think that’s going to happen? My five years old grandson says no. So what does he do? He spends to create votes with programs like Cash for Clunkers to show what a fabulous economist he is. He and his gang of thieves couldn’t add two and two and get four. And for that nonsense,and other examples like this Bozocare fiasco, we need more tax revenue. Figured it out yet?
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
9:12 am
“It’s a start”
According to Conoco it wold be un-American to cut that subsidy
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:13 am
Paul 9:10 –
A. The Dem proposal is balatant economic discrimination in the worst manner. What if they said “we don’t like Paul’s company, so we’re going to tax it at 50% instead of 35%”. Its ridiculous, bad government, and awful leadership.
B. Fine, its a few billion. Its smaller than a drop in an olympic swimming pool
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
9:13 am
“Instead, you have the truly wealthy paying just 15% on capital gains, while the middle class pays 25 – 33%”
Just wait, your logic is faulty.
The middle class’ income is taxed JUST ONCE at 25 – 33%. The money as part of capital gains has already been taxed at whatever rate it was initially as income, then it is TAXED AGAIN at another 15%.
But that’s fair, right? You make money, tax it accordingly, then decide to use it to employ people or grow the economy, then tax it again – and YOU complain that it’s not being taxed enough?
The right may be greedy in wanting to MAKE money, but the left knows no bounds in wanting to TAKE money.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:13 am
Dave R 9:13 – second that.
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
9:14 am
“However, to pay down the debt, you will need more revenue than what what you spend.” – Which they can deal with when the debates for the next fiscal year budget start. Cut spending now, raise the debt ceiling, then deal with the tax increase issue.
“Democratic proposal is to cut a couple billion in subsidies for the top 5 oil companies and apply the savings directly to deficit reduction.
It’s a start.” – It’s a very good start. Aren’t they having a hearing today or something with top oil execs about the subsidies? It’ll be interesting/funny to hear what they say
USMC
May 13th, 2011
9:14 am
Talk about Dishonest…
Obama Lies 7 Times In Under 2 Minutes!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfu1_Scgyow
PJ
May 13th, 2011
9:14 am
kayaker 71 @9:11 am – Dodge taxes – Report this link.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:15 am
Increasing the Credit Limit on your credit card does not solve the problem of too high a balance on your credit card for you to be able to pay back….
Adam
May 13th, 2011
9:15 am
For those who keep going “DEMS DIDN’T PASS A BUDGET!”:
It takes both parties to pass a budget. Just FYI.
The More You Know.
Jay
May 13th, 2011
9:15 am
Of course, the farmers and fishermen ALSO live within the Mississippi flood plain; they are just as dependent as the people of New Orleans on levees and the Corps for protection against the flood waters. But somehow it’s the people of New Orleans who are the fools and the villains here.
And if the choice was yours, what would you choose: Flooding fields and farmlands, or flooding a major city? The rational choice is easy; those arguing for a choice of another kind, well…
Good little liberal
May 13th, 2011
9:15 am
Left wing management
“Why Obama’s not a lock?”
Because after two years of failure, a horrible economy, more people going on welfare than ever before in history, his ramming a Insurance Company benefitting health policy that helps almost no one and pushing everyone’s rates higher, gas prices through the roof, inflation killing us when so many don’t have jobs, no leadership skills, a chip on his shoulder as big as a house, his overt racism, his embracing of Islam while turning his back on all other religions and his disastrous foreign policy decisions, everyone is learning what his version of Hope and Change really meant.
I hope this helps.
Mick
May 13th, 2011
9:16 am
George will?
From the brilliant Dr. Krugman:
“This has to be one of the funniest political stories of recent weeks: On Tuesday, 42 freshmen Republican members of Congress sent a letter urging President Obama to stop Democrats from engaging in “Mediscare” tactics — that is, to stop saying that the Republican budget plan released early last month, which would end Medicare as we know it, is a plan to end Medicare as we know it.”
Now, you may recall that the people who signed that letter got their current jobs largely by engaging in “Mediscare” tactics of their own. And bear in mind that what Democrats are saying now is entirely true, while what Republicans were saying last year was completely false. Death panels.”
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:16 am
Adam 9:15 – well, the Dems didn’t pass a budget. It doesn’t take 2 parties, in particular when the Dems controlled the House and the Senate with a 60 vote supermajority.
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
9:16 am
As a member of the EOI club, I was required to point out the weak point in my Chairman’s logic.
NIght Train
May 13th, 2011
9:17 am
Raising taxes SHOULD be off the table until substantial spending cut are implemented. Government (both parties) always claim that we will get to cutting spending, but first, to get out of this crisis, we have to raise taxes NOW. Guess what? The cuts NEVER come.
If the GOP wants back in power, they better stick to cutting spending. After we see some serious cuts, then consider raising taxes. But if they don’t make the big cuts, the GOP better not support raising any taxes.
PJ
May 13th, 2011
9:17 am
Good little liberal – What do you use for carfare, Charmin?
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:17 am
Mick, Krugman’s a hack. Fact.
AmVet
May 13th, 2011
9:18 am
Peadawg, thanks for the link to ML’s.
getalife will love it…
I’m sure Mr. Norquist’s heart is in the right place. His resume is impressive, if not a mixed. But the problem is obvious; his intractability and absolutism DO NOT WORK in this country. At least for the we the people in this country.
We used to have true leaders in the United States of America. Men who were statesmen. men who understood that since we are all int his together, the only solution’s involve give and take. Reasoned and reasonable compromise.
No more.
(And the aforementioned getalife is right – for proof, just look what disgraced, favorite son from Georgia is running for POTUS!!!)
And why so many see this new and unimproved GOP for what it truly is – hijacked, dogmatic, unresponsive. And manipulated by misguided mental midgets to the point of being dangerous.
BTW, one of the more “interesting” efforts of Grover?
The Parental Rights Amendment to the United States Constitution is a proposed change to the United States Constitution. The amendment’s advocates say that it will allow parents’ rights to direct the upbringing of their children, protected from federal interference and the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.
(What is it with neo-cons and their demented, incessant desire to get their filthy hands all over the US Constitution?)
Jay
May 13th, 2011
9:18 am
Because after two years of failure, a horrible economy, more people going on welfare than ever before in history, his ramming a Insurance Company benefitting health policy that helps almost no one and pushing everyone’s rates higher, gas prices through the roof, inflation killing us when so many don’t have jobs, no leadership skills, a chip on his shoulder as big as a house, his overt racism, his embracing of Islam while turning his back on all other religions and his disastrous foreign policy decisions, everyone is learning what his version of Hope and Change really meant.
Apparently the Internet is now available even on planets other than this one.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:18 am
Night Train – amen. The revenue increases will happen but the spending cuts never will….
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
9:18 am
“when the Dems controlled the House and the Senate with a 60 vote supermajority”
They had a supermajority in the Senate, but as long as the filibuster and “hold bill” rules still exist they don’t have control of it.
ty webb
May 13th, 2011
9:19 am
Paul,
Why bother asking that questio?. The characteristics of a “true conservative” have been established by many great political scientists here on this very blog:
white(those that are non white, are merely “sellouts”, and don’t count)
racist(those that are nonwhite are simply self hating)
Anti-helping anyone who needs it(forget charity, gov’t does real good)
Anti-paying their “fair share”(you know the whole “give an inch…”thing)
Warmongering(unlike the “humanitarian mongering” done by the other side)
Anywho, that’s just a few. Hope it helps.
Irwin M. Fletcher
May 13th, 2011
9:19 am
Kayaker – “Bozo will not be re-elected with the present unemployment rate. No president has ever been elected with an unemployment rate above 8%. To reduce the rate to 8% before Nov 2012, he will have to “create” 187K jobs/month….. and that’s just getting it to 8%. Think that’s going to happen? My five years old grandson says no. So what does he do? He spends to create votes with programs like Cash for Clunkers to show what a fabulous economist he is. He and his gang of thieves couldn’t add two and two and get four. And for that nonsense,and other examples like this Bozocare fiasco, we need more tax revenue. Figured it out yet?”
Not sure what your question is. You seem to be under the impression that I’m a supporter of Obama or the Democratic party. I’m not. In regard to the issue of taxes, as I stated previously, I pay what’s required. Do I always agree as to where the money is being spent? No. Do I feel that as a citizen of this country part of my responsibility is to contribute to the overall common good? Yes. Would I like to never pay taxes ever? Absolutely. However, reality is that taxes will always be levied, not everyone will agree on where they are spent and neither the Democrats or the Republicans will ever move beyond that.
Adam
May 13th, 2011
9:19 am
Now I know Dave R gets his news from primarily conservative sources:
Disrespect the office of the President by inviting a rapper to the White House who threatened to burn my predecessor? No problem. Really. He’s just a “poet”.
You might want to check your FACTS on this one, Dave.
I am not paying attention to any subsequent part of any of your posts that involve this subject. Find the facts, use the scientific method. Get the facts for your own benefit, not talking points for the benefit of everyone else.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:19 am
“Apparently the Internet is now available even on planets other than this one.”
Or at least FOX is. The Jon Stewart show must not have Jupiter syndication yet….
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:20 am
Doggone 9:18 – are you this clueless? The 60 vote supermajority overrides the filibuster. That’s why the 60 vote count matters…. duh.
And the Dems had 60 votes for over a year.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:21 am
“Sometimes, people here amaze me.”
Likewise, the libs here are generally off their rocker. SoCo, you, not always….. (no BS)
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
9:21 am
So to save the dump, disgusting city that is New Orleans, they are going to flood farms and fish camps? Nice….
Sometimes, people here amaze me. You complain that the Army Corps of Engineers are trying to save NOLA and other large cities by flooding smaller areas. If they let those large areas flood, then y’all would be bitching about how much it’s costing to rebuild the infrastructure and stuff. I really think there are people on this planet who are not happy regardless to what decision is made.
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
9:21 am
“And if the choice was yours, what would you choose: Flooding fields and farmlands, or flooding a major city? The rational choice is easy; ”
Yeah, Jay. It is. Flood the damned city and leave it that way. Stop spending billions of dollars trying to keep a city 25ft below water dry. Flood it, pay the property owners one time for their losses, and move on.
When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
May 13th, 2011
9:22 am
The obvious strategy is to keep the ball in the Dem’s court to make real and significant steps to cut spending. That’s a must do before looking into increased tax proposals. The Democrats want their cake and eat it to, that can’t be allowed to happen.
AmVet
May 13th, 2011
9:23 am
Dave,
How to make mo money without using yo money…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jukQX2pl2Q
Mick
May 13th, 2011
9:23 am
usmc@9:14
I think you’ve gone to the well a bit too many times with that. You could also make a comparible video with every politician ever elected..
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:23 am
SoCO 9:21 – weird. How did my response to your post end up before yours….
Jay, IT is toking up in the server room….
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
9:24 am
“You might want to check your FACTS on this one, Dave.”
I did, you yappy little tea cup poodle. Discussed last night and thoroughly debunked all the defenses of this major disrespect for the office of the President.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
May 13th, 2011
9:24 am
I really think there are people on this planet who are not happy regardless to what decision is made.
We have a winner!
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:24 am
Dave R – global warming is going to doom that city to oblivion. It really would make sense to do a wholesale relocation….
Peadawg
May 13th, 2011
9:25 am
“They had a supermajority in the Senate, but as long as the filibuster and “hold bill” rules still exist they don’t have control of it.”
A budget never made to the Senate so your argument doesn’t hold here.
Paul
May 13th, 2011
9:26 am
jm
“The Dem proposal is balatant economic discrimination in the worst manner.”
That’s a new ‘don’t cut my subsidy, bro” line that is, of course, gaining traction. It’s another case too, of the underlings defending the perks of their betters.
Hint: tax advantages vary tremendously by industry and within industry. Congress has always used the tax code to engineer favors and paybacks for various groups.
Try this out. Currently, homeowners can take mortgage interest deduction, even for million-dollar vacation homes. If Congress moves to revise the tax code so homeowners don’t get to deduct vacation home interest, will you cry ‘don’t do it! Unfair! Discrimination!”
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
9:26 am
“They had a supermajority in the Senate, but as long as the filibuster and “hold bill” rules still exist they don’t have control of it.”
They did for budgetary bills, as the filibuster doesn’t apply to those. Nice try.
ty webb
May 13th, 2011
9:26 am
“It’s not taxpayer money that’s lining their pockets. Remember how much is spent in campaign donations and such???”
Soco,
Good point, but I must ask you if you think that those “campaign donations” don’t come with expectations from their donors? I believe it does in many cases, and that the donors get a pretty good ROI.
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
9:27 am
“The 60 vote supermajority overrides the filibuster”
You’re assuming all 60 Dem senators would actually vote in lockstep. They don’t. And even that won’t override a hold bill.
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
9:28 am
jm: Once politicians see a money bucket, the only know one thing to do with it: spend…..
Quit electing jackasses then! We have nobody but ourselves to blame for the crap that goes on in DC. All I can see at this point is what will become a bloodless coup to overthrow the government. Sounds far fetched, but when you have idiots wanting to cut government back to 1980 levels with a 2010 population, there’s not many other motivations. There’s no way possible that we can keep spending down while we are increasing our population, increasing our military activities across the world, and increasing our attempts to secure the border. That sh*t costs money. Once the American people realize we’re getting played for fools, maybe we’ll see real serious people getting elected instead of the crop of jackasses that parties parade before us each year.
kayaker 71
May 13th, 2011
9:29 am
Off topic but one that we might want to see….
The last veteran of WW I died yesterday at the age of 110. He was in the Australian navy, was married to the same woman for 76 yrs who died at age 98. They had three children, all still living, the oldest at age 84. He wrote his first book at age 108 about the war which was just published this year. We should all be fortunate to live such a life.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:32 am
Paul 9:26
“That’s a new ‘don’t cut my subsidy, bro” line that is”
No its not, singling out 5 companies for higher tax breaks is illegal. First, the proposal’s never going to pass. But if it did, the Supreme Court would overturn it in a heartbeat. Point is Dems are playing politics instead of getting the people work done.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:32 am
Paul 9:26 “tax advantages vary tremendously by industry and within industry.”
No sh-t. The Dem proposal is actually to just single out those 5 companies.
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
9:32 am
AmVet @ 9:23:
ty webb
May 13th, 2011
9:32 am
Jay,
Seems the moderator of your blog has fixed your flux capacitor, and people are responding to comments that haven’t been made yet. If anyone cares to post next year’s score for the Superbowl, please feel free to do so…I’ve got to make a call to Vegas.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:33 am
Doggone 9:27 – not my fault the Dems don’t have their act together
Paul
May 13th, 2011
9:34 am
Dave R.
“The middle class’ income is taxed JUST ONCE at 25 – 33%. The money as part of capital gains has already been taxed at whatever rate it was initially as income, then it is TAXED AGAIN at another 15%.”
Dave, some may read this to mean “If I get $1000 in capital gains, I have to include it as ordinary income and have it taxed, then report it as capital gains and have it taxed again.”
You may want to clarify.
ty webb
I’m more interested in how a group sees themselves, not in how others define them.
Jay
“Apparently the Internet is now available even on planets other than this one.”
Bosch and I’ve been tryin’ to tell ya’ – they’ve also got Sixes and reformed Borgs…..
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:34 am
Soco 9:28 – as has been pointed out, the bulk of the budget, and the bulk of the problem is not discretionary, or, to a lesser extent, entitlements. The meat of the matter is the entitlements….
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:35 am
typo
“or, to a lesser extent, entitlements. ”
should have been
“or, to a lesser extent, defense. “
PJ
May 13th, 2011
9:35 am
I don’t know why rich people bother to pay lobbyist or buy off elected officials. There are enough apologist here alone to save them billions.
Paul
May 13th, 2011
9:37 am
jm
“No its not, singling out 5 companies for higher tax breaks is illegal. First, the proposal’s never going to pass. But if it did, the Supreme Court would overturn it in a heartbeat.’
You may want to consider retaining another legal advisor…
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
9:38 am
“not my fault the Dems don’t have their act together”
“I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat”
Will Rogers
Personally, I prefer to have legislators who might think for themselves, instead of signing purity pledges and letting someone else do their thinking for them
shawny
May 13th, 2011
9:39 am
Spin, spin, spin.
You can increase revenue by not “raising taxes”, or at least tax rates.
Close loopholes, reduce deductions, etc. and revenue will increase.
Make companies like GE that pay no taxes get in the game with individuals and most other businesses. Get rid of the 100% interest deduction on home loans and ‘Home improvement’ loans which encourage more debt than needed.
It can be done but will take a president and legislative body with some serious stones to make it happen.
DO not raise the tax rates, though.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:40 am
I am virulently sick of Democrats. If I was a completely charitable person, I’d give all my money to the RNC right now…..
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:40 am
Paul 9:37 “not intended as a retort”
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
9:40 am
“Personally, I prefer to have legislators who might think for themselves, instead of signing purity pledges and letting someone else do their thinking for them”
Your legislators would first have to have the capacity to think, which hasn’t been proven to any certainty.
Mick
May 13th, 2011
9:43 am
jm
George will is a blustering nabob of expandible hot air, who listens to him anyway? I guess that would be you…
PJ
May 13th, 2011
9:43 am
Let’s see if we can make anyone else sick. HeeHee.
AmVet
May 13th, 2011
9:44 am
So Dr. Paul is in the race for 1600 Pennsylvania again..
Good.
He is a singular voice of reason in a GOP ocean of madness.
And it is always big fun to watch him embarrass the apparatchiks in his own political party.
Other than McCain, he was the only non-laugher last time, so good luck again to the thinking man from Texas…
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
9:44 am
jm
Sometimes I’m off my rocker, and sometimes I’m completely off the porch…
ty
I KNOW those campaign donations come with expectations. That’s why I want them to end completely. I believe in full public financing for election campaigns with no outside money at all.
Yahtzee
May 13th, 2011
9:45 am
SoCo,
We do have public financing for election campaigns already, our tax dollars go to public unions, then the majority of that money goes to one party.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:47 am
Mick – the guy has plenty of historical perspective. I’ll let you go read his resume for yourself. Its called The Google.
Left wing management
May 13th, 2011
9:47 am
Doggone/GA: “Personally, I prefer to have legislators who might think for themselves, instead of signing purity pledges and letting someone else do their thinking for them”
Yeah, and to see what withering storms of abuse await someone who actually dares attempt to think — i.e. to refrain from merely carrying out a movement mechanically, according to programming — just look at the bile poured on Mitt Romney yesterday by Ms. Rigor Mortis at the WaPo, Jennifer Rubin:
Who thought up the idea of this sort of speech? I imagine the candidate did. No professional campaign adviser who knows the tiniest bit about GOP politics would have advised him to take this route.
In other words, anyone who dares buck the rule of cynical political operatives with their formulas and charts is an idiot. Guess it never occurs to Ms. Rubin that the roots of any new blood in the tired system of ours, when it does come, is going to come first by bucking the encrusted establishment of the political bureaucracy itself.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/romneys-speech-he-digs-deeper/2011/03/29/AFf3qB1G_blog.html
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:47 am
AmVet 9:44 – Ron Paul is unhinged. His son, maybe less so. The fact that you think Ron Paul is the voice of reason pretty much means you’re so far on the wingtips, you’re back where the run into one another.
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
9:49 am
jm @ 9:34
I know that entitlements are a big part of the fuss. I also know the defense budget is pretty damned big too. Compare our population now versus when those entitlement programs were enacted and I’m sure you’ll find a significant uptick in population. With the increase in population, we would need an increase in employment to genereate the income to support the population. However, our employment opportunities have not increased as our population has, hence the overall revenue problem. We don’t have a spending problem in this country, it’s because of revenue. We don’t have a large enough job base to generate the basic revenue needed to sustain the current population. It’s not taxes or the tax rate, it comes down to the tax base. Minimum wage jobs at McDonalds don’t hurt, but service sector jobs will not keep this country afloat.
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
9:49 am
“Your legislators would first have to have the capacity to think, which hasn’t been proven to any certainty”
They can think well enough not to sign purity pledges.
Paul
May 13th, 2011
9:50 am
jm
Thanks. Another weakness of having just written words to go on. But the posts together made a pretty good point, as I’d imagine some read your line and thought “that’s right, jm, you got it right!”
Don't Forget
May 13th, 2011
9:51 am
Norquist is an example of a total d bag. Case in point, the ethanol subsidy. He opposed the ethanol subsidy because he thought that it was a mistake to use a major food source for fuel. I’ll add to that, the fact that ethanol is pretty bad in greenhouse gas emission and say that I agreed with him. But now that some want to repeal that subsidy, Norquist is balking because it conflicts with his ideology to not raise taxes for any reason, even if it was a bad idea to begin with. What a d bag.
TaxPayer
May 13th, 2011
9:51 am
Poor Republicans have done boxed themselves in. Grover on one side and Medicare recipients on the other side. What will they do. They cannot raise taxes and they must give the wealthiest another tax cut in order to stay in their favor but the Medicare recipients are not to happy with the GOP’s plan to throw them under the bus either. Well, the Medicare recipients will quit complaining once they’ve been thrown under the bus so just pass out the earplugs.
Mick
May 13th, 2011
9:51 am
jm
I was listening to george will when you were in diapers my friend, every sunday morning with david brinkley. He is way past his prime and pretty irrelevant…
TaxPayer
May 13th, 2011
9:53 am
I am virulently sick of Democrats. If I was a completely charitable person, I’d give all my money to the RNC right now…..
You been eating that Georgia peanut butter.
AmVet
May 13th, 2011
9:53 am
jm, not that I give a tinker’s damn about your opinion of him, of me, or about much of anything else, but thanks for sharing.
And no worries, you’ll have plenty of chances to support some hard-core, Party Pure GOP stooge, who is hinged!
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
9:54 am
“Guess it never occurs to Ms. Rubin that the roots of any new blood in the tired system of ours, when it does come, is going to come first by bucking the encrusted establishment of the political bureaucracy itself. ”
Amen to that…and I would add “of the electorate too”
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:55 am
SoCo 9:49 I agree defense needs to be significantly smaller. but again, the bulk is in entitlements.
yes, the tax base is too small…… why is that? Well, mainly because of our deficits and the largesse of our government (through the variety of trade mechanisms by which China then manipulates their currency and the uncompetitive taxing and legal practices in the US)
Mick 9:51 – you sound well past your sell by date. Spoiled milk you are. And irrelevant. (If we’re going to insult intelligent thoughtful people like George Will, I just figured I’d return the favor on his behalf)
getalife
May 13th, 2011
9:55 am
Keep yelling at them for voting to steal your Medicare and cons need to stop bowing down to the wealthy to force shared sacrifice.
Yell at the gop when they vote no on ending big oil welfare while they try to steal your Medicare.
You will prevail in this argument.
ty webb
May 13th, 2011
9:55 am
jm,
I don’t think Ron Paul is unhinged. He’s a conservative, and though I may disagree with some things he says(mostly with regard to defense, killing Bin laden), he’s makes consitent conservative/libertarian points. I don’t think he can win the election, but I’m just glad he’s out there “spreading the word”.
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
9:55 am
We do have public financing for election campaigns already, our tax dollars go to public unions, then the majority of that money goes to one party.
Wrong. Taxpayer money does not go to public unions. You would be correct in stating that taxpayer dollars go to public union members. Once the labor is produced and paid for, that money belongs to the person performing the labor. What they decide to do with that money then is for them to decide, and not the taxpayer.
Also wrong because there are public sector union members who don’t donate to campaigns. By law, union dues can not be used to finance campaign donations. Unions have PAC’s just like the Chamber of Commerce, the Tea Parties, and everyone else. If you want the unions to stop donations, then stop everyone. Otherwise, you can bury that false rhetoric.
TaxPayer
May 13th, 2011
9:56 am
Is jm turning shades of green. Someone hand the poor guy a voucher so he can buy a barf bag.
TaxPayer
May 13th, 2011
9:59 am
jm must have been on the losing end of some commodities trades. He sounds more angry than usual.
jm
May 13th, 2011
9:59 am
Jay, a very interesting education article. Jonix should consider reading too…
http://www.economist.com/node/18678925?story_id=18678925
Mick
May 13th, 2011
9:59 am
jm
Well I’ll take that as a compliment coming from a broken record, one trick pony. Time to get a new song and dance, your theatre is empty…
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
9:59 am
why is that? Well, mainly because of our deficits and the largesse of our government (through the variety of trade mechanisms by which China then manipulates their currency and the uncompetitive taxing and legal practices in the US)
It has nothing to do with our deficits. It’s because a group of people in a boardroom somewhere saw the potential to increase profits by exploiting cheap labor overseas. That plan would work only if they could get Congress to repeal tarriffs, hence the numerous “free trade” agreements that the US has with other countries. Had Congress not decided to tamper with existing laws, it would still be cheaper to manufacture here, and we would still have SOME jobs instead of NONE of the jobs that were exported.
Jack
May 13th, 2011
10:00 am
Raise the social security tax on income up to $250K annually and impose a jail sentence on those that abuse the EITC: this abuse is widespread and the IRS does very little to discourage it other than to issue guidelines.
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
10:01 am
“Once the labor is produced and paid for, that money belongs to the person performing the labor.”
Really? Then why don’t I ever see all my paycheck before the money I earned is confiscated by the government?
jm
May 13th, 2011
10:04 am
ty webb – he’s consistent. but some of his ideas (going back to the gold standard, to name one) are insane. immediate and complete withdrawal from Iraq Afghanistan, also insane (a swift judicious drawdown, that we’re overdue for)
Taxpayer – haven’t lost a nickel. Though I am shifting the portfolio to a more conservative stance. I got out of oil and gold weeks ago.
SoCo – it has much to do with our deficits. The easiest and best way for China to fix (undervalue) the exchange rate is by purchasing newly issued treasuries. But for our deficit, it would be much more difficult for China to undervalue its currency.
AmVet
May 13th, 2011
10:04 am
Haven’t done any research yet, but I would presume that corporate contributions (historically slanted very heavily to the GOP) exceed labor’s contributions (historically heavily slanted to the Democrats) by a factor of 20 or so…
Yahtzee
May 13th, 2011
10:06 am
SoCo,
Taxpayer money pays union dues for union members, and that money goes to the unions…and then the unions contribute to political campaigns. Easy to follow right?
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
10:07 am
“Taxpayer money pays union dues for union members, and that money goes to the unions…and then the unions contribute to political campaigns.”
Yahtzee, even I don’t buy that foolish argument. Move on to something of substance.
Left wing management
May 13th, 2011
10:07 am
Jack: “Raise the social security tax on income up to $250K annually and impose a jail sentence on those that abuse the EITC”
No jail sentences on those who make under $250K.
What’s the total number of days served in jail so far by financial industry employees and executives who were responsible for nearly destroying the economy?
CJ
May 13th, 2011
10:08 am
Jay,
If you haven’t already, I wish you’d educate your readers about “The People’s Budget.” Produced by the House Congressional Progressive Caucus, this proposal balances the budget decades faster than Paul Ryan’s proposed budget.
I’ve always said, if you want a fiscal conservative, look to the liberals: http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=70
jm
May 13th, 2011
10:08 am
AmVet 10:04 – I think they’re pretty evenly matched. (Corp v. Unions) If you look under the Obama bedsheets, you’ll see $100’s of millions in union contributions.
What I’m mainly saying about Ron Paul, is, while a well meaning guy, he’s just crazy and doesn’t have a clue…. he holds his views because there is a lot of corruption in DC, and he reacts naturally against it. But his solutions are not the right ones.
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
10:09 am
Really? Then why don’t I ever see all my paycheck before the money I earned is confiscated by the government?
It’s the same reason I don’t get to see all of mine before the government consfiscates a good hunk of it…
Living in America isn’t free, even though it’s thought of as “The Land of the Free”. That land and it’s upkeep costs money.
Joe The Plumber too.
May 13th, 2011
10:09 am
getabrain keeps trying to have an original thought, he just can’t quite get there. He should try barry the boy blunders web page, perhaps he could borrow one, after all it works for jay and cindy-loo-who.
getalife
May 13th, 2011
10:09 am
When the gop votes no on ending big oil welfare while trying to steal your Medicare, stand up and scream at them until they force you to leave.
You will win this argument and the gop will collapse.
AmVet
May 13th, 2011
10:10 am
Ron Paul decries the massive mistakes and deadly debacles of the modern day, crusading empire builders in his own party.
He speaks to that.
And why the Party of Permanent War despises him…
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
10:10 am
“I’ve always said, if you want a fiscal conservative, look to the liberals: ”
All that deserves is this:
Balancing a budget with massive tax increases and no real cuts in spending does not equal fiscal conservatism.
Except on Jupiter.
Don't Forget
May 13th, 2011
10:10 am
It was less than 10 years ago that Cheney said to Paul O’Neil “You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don’t matter,” Now they run around like chicken little, threatening to default on our debts and insisting we have the elderly and poor pay for their little spending/tax cut binge. Meanwhile their sweetheart tax loopholes are “off the table”.
Doggone/GA
May 13th, 2011
10:10 am
“Taxpayer money pays union dues for union members, and that money goes to the unions…and then the unions contribute to political campaigns. Easy to follow right?”
Easy to follow? Sure. Wrong? Yes
jm
May 13th, 2011
10:11 am
“No jail sentences on those who make under $250K. ”
Oh good, LWM is pro-anarchy
jm
May 13th, 2011
10:12 am
Don’t Forget 10:10 – and it was 3 years ago that Dems were screaming about deficits when they were 3% of GDP. Now that they’re 12% of GDP, they’re not a big deal….. hmmm…..
AmVet
May 13th, 2011
10:12 am
getalife, did you see this?
It’s bound to further PO your new fan…
http://blogs.ajc.com/mike-luckovich/
Midori
May 13th, 2011
10:12 am
I am virulently sick of Democrats. If I was a completely charitable person, I’d give all my money to the RNC right now…..
as if we are not sick of YOU???
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
10:14 am
Easy to follow right?
Only in the Land of Make Believe. Once the taxpayer’s money is used to pay for the labor that the public sector worker performs, that money changes possession and ownership to the person performing the labor. Do you consider the money you’re paid for your labor as money belonging to your employer when you’re spending it, or does it belong to you? Even easier to follow if you actually think real life and not fantasyland, right?
Dave 10:07
EOI much?
jm
May 13th, 2011
10:14 am
Midori 10:12 – sorry to be a thorn in your side. Delivering truth and facts to the ignorant…. its clearly become a part time job. Let learning be cherished where liberty has arisen. Some here are still in mental shackles and chains.
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
10:15 am
“It was less than 10 years ago that Cheney said to Paul O’Neil “You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don’t matter,”
Yeah. WHEN REFERENCING ELECTIONS IN THE 1980’s!
You can parse it 50 times, or 100 times, and that quote still doesn’t mean a tinker’s damn to any discussion about whether the newest incarnation of the GOP should or should not be addressing this deficit.
getalife
May 13th, 2011
10:16 am
AmVet,
Perfect toon.
Joe,
Get your stinking gop corrupt hands off Medicare and SS.
Got it?
jm
May 13th, 2011
10:17 am
love Mccain. despise Glenn Beck
So the host went straight to the one-two punch: Glenn Beck’s on-air puke fest. What, asked King, did the senator make of someone who, upon mention of his daughter’s name, would “false vomit for an extended period of time?”
“I don’t think I should dignify that kind of behavior with a comment,” replied McCain.
http://www.politico.com/click/stories/1105/john_mccain_joins_family_feud_vs_beck.html
Mick
May 13th, 2011
10:18 am
**Some here are still in mental shackles and chains.**
Looking in the mirror again?
Adam
May 13th, 2011
10:18 am
How about for the Congress, you sign a purity pledge to keep your campaign promises, complete with a reminder list handed to you every so often of everything you ever promised on your campaign (so you don’t forget)? Instead of immediately abandoning your campaign promises in favor of voting in lockstep? The “Democrats want to kill medicare but I won’t” promises come to mind. Oh, and KNOWING your vote isn’t going to cause any real legislative change doesn’t count as a loophole.
Don't Forget
May 13th, 2011
10:19 am
jm, please back up your claim that democrats are saying that deficits are “no big deal”
It is pure bs.
jm
May 13th, 2011
10:19 am
talk about a someone on repeat: getalife. take your own advice
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
10:19 am
Some days more than others, SoCo.
Joe The Plumber too.
May 13th, 2011
10:20 am
your ebt card has been fully charged, bless your heart.
jm
May 13th, 2011
10:20 am
Don’t Forget 10:19 – “hands off social security and medicare and medicaid”. “and tax increases only for those making more than $250k”
Well if hands are off entitlements (the bulk of the budget), and they won’t raise taxes enough to fix the deficit, then they’re pro-deficit.
Ie, they’re pro-destruction of america.
Adam
May 13th, 2011
10:21 am
Dave R: The “deficits don’t matter” quote was used as a justification for the tax cuts. That’s hardly ONLY referencing the 1980s.
Don't Forget
May 13th, 2011
10:21 am
Yeah. WHEN REFERENCING ELECTIONS IN THE 1980’s!
You can parse it 50 times, or 100 times, and that quote still doesn’t mean a tinker’s damn to any discussion about whether the newest incarnation of the GOP should or should not be addressing this deficit.
More republican distortion and deception. Just twist the facts to suit your needs.
O’Neill said he tried to warn Vice President Dick Cheney that growing budget deficits-expected to top $500 billion this fiscal year alone-posed a threat to the economy. Cheney cut him off. “You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don’t matter,” he said, according to excerpts. Cheney continued: “We won the midterms (congressional elections). This is our due.” A month later, Cheney told the Treasury secretary he was fired.
Left wing management
May 13th, 2011
10:21 am
jm: “Oh good, LWM is pro-anarchy”
You don’t know the half of it, dude. Anarchy’s coming one way or another if the disease afflicting our country isn’t overcome. And the GOP is right up at the front among those who are busy digging our grave.
By the way, did you see those oil execs who puffed and posed yesterday at the congressional hearing yesterday? That’s your true anarchists.
Yahtzee
May 13th, 2011
10:23 am
SoCo,
Congratulations! You totally get it! I guess I did a pretty awful job of articulating the point I was trying to make. I could care less what someone does with the money they earn from their labors, and Im not sure why you are even talking about ownership of money.
My point is that taxpayers pay union dues, so for you to understand, this takes place before a service by the laborer has been performed. The unions are basically financed through public funds, and when election time comes they throw all that money to politicians who are going to favor union contract bids over private bids. So it is a form of public financing.
The difference is with unions, taxpayers dont get a say in where their money goes in an election. To give an opposing example, if you dont want the Koch brothers donating to Repubs, then you have the choice to not buy their products and dont have to worry about it.
PJ
May 13th, 2011
10:23 am
The Republicans are caught between a rock and a hard place. “Who do we stand up for the big donors or the big voters?” Don’t you just love it!!!!! Keep backing yourselves up against that wall. You can not serve two masters.
Message from Matti
May 13th, 2011
10:24 am
What’s with the GOPPERS and their “purity” schtick? Does anyone believe THEY even believe that rhetoric? They should call it what it is: an “obedience pledge” to their party leaders (”Party First!”), and a “fealty pledge” to their corporate masters.
What I’d like to see for once is a “sanity pledge.” How about a “will think it through using logic & reason, and looking at the big picture” pledge. That’ll never happen, as such concepts are too complex for their flock.
Mighty Righty
May 13th, 2011
10:26 am
Gale
May 13th, 2011
8:10 am
Just because wealthy special interests who contribute to their campaigns don’t want them to raise taxes, doesn’t mean they should not do so. Most middle Americans understand that when you have a negative cash flow and too much debt, you have to do more than just cut out the non-essential spending. You may have to get a second job or work more hours to get back on top of things. Our Congress critters act like they never saw a budget.
Are most middle class americans willing to increase their own taxes? Do most middle americans go steal from their neighbors when they over spend their own income? That is what you are suggesting. It is indisputable that the wealthy do not have enough income to balance the budget. My question for those of you who wish to continue out of control spending, how about you putting YOUR money where your mouth is. How about just accept enough of a tax increase to cover Obama’s spending over his last two yeays. If you are not willing to increase your own taxes by say 25% to 50%, then shut up.
JKL2
May 13th, 2011
10:26 am
Paul- what’s a RINO?
The opposite of a Blue Dog Democrat.
jm
May 13th, 2011
10:28 am
LWM 10:21 – I got to hear a good chunk of the soundbites on the radio and afterward on the news. Did not watch it live.
It really was a complete dog and pony show. People’s Business? We’ll leave that to the Republicans in the House.
jm
May 13th, 2011
10:29 am
LWM – there’s a difference between expecting anarchy and being pro-anarchy. Glad to see the liberals here have gone pro-anarchy. Just like the peeps in WI.
Or you can suggest you were saying the comment in jest. Up to you.
Don't Forget
May 13th, 2011
10:29 am
jm,
first of all, WHO said the quote you cited? Secondly, don’t you feel even a little guilty for distorting that into “deficits are no big deal”? It IS a lie, no?
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
10:30 am
Dave
Makes life fun, doesn’t it???
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
10:30 am
Yeah, gotta love those math whizzes at the Congressional Progressive Caucus. Their plan is worse than anything the Yerkes Primate Center could have produced.
Her’s all you need to know about their plan:
• Primary spending cuts of $869 billion
• Revenue increase of $3.9 trillion
• Public investment of $1.7 trillion
These people are worse than jokes; they’re dangerous.
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
10:33 am
“What I’d like to see for once is a “sanity pledge.” How about a “will think it through using logic & reason, and looking at the big picture” pledge.”
Not going to get that from any side of the aisle.
Ever.
Dave R.
May 13th, 2011
10:34 am
SoCo: “Makes life fun, doesn’t it???”
Oh yeah . . .
JKL2
May 13th, 2011
10:36 am
getalife- Get your stinking gop corrupt hands off Medicare and SS
obamacare says “What?”
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
10:37 am
My point is that taxpayers pay union dues, so for you to understand, this takes place before a service by the laborer has been performed. The unions are basically financed through public funds, and when election time comes they throw all that money to politicians who are going to favor union contract bids over private bids. So it is a form of public financing.
Dude, you don’t get it. Union dues are not paid until labor is performed and paid for. Taxpayer money doesn’t have jack sh*t to do with union dues. If that were the case, union participation would be 100% where it was offered, since it would be free, right? Union dues does not go to political campaign as that is illegal activity. Nobody’s dumb enough to do illegal stuff to lose those cushy, fluffy, public sector jobs right? Remember, the one’s with the huge benefits…
You really should quit while you’re behind. There are many conservatives here that I respect and admire. You are making them look bad by spreading bs under the guise of conservative logic. I would love to see any proof of you assinine allegations if you could produce it.
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
10:38 am
*proof of your*
AmVet
May 13th, 2011
10:41 am
And lemme guess, the definition of a Blue Dog Democrat?
The opposite of a RINO…
Fallacies of ambiguity appear to support their conclusions only due to their imprecise use of language. Once terms are clarified, fallacies of ambiguity are exposed.
Mighty Righty
May 13th, 2011
10:41 am
Go Norquist. We need someone to keep an eye on these clowns we send to Washington D.C. to make sure they don’t forget who they represent. Especially old Saxby who has recently shown liberal tendencies. We got rid of ”Ironsides” for pretending he was reasonable when down here and was then a radical liberal when in D.C.
JKL2
May 13th, 2011
10:43 am
don’t forget- please back up your claim that democrats are saying that deficits are “no big deal”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/healthreform/healthcare-overview
Don't Forget
May 13th, 2011
10:46 am
JKL2, lol. First of all, CBO says that saves money. Second, you haven’t quoted ANYONE saying what jm claims is being said. Third, the implication is that dems are a LOT more concerned about the deficit than r’s are.
JKL2
May 13th, 2011
10:51 am
left wing- Anarchy’s coming one way or another if the disease afflicting our country isn’t overcome. And the GOP is right up at the front among those who are busy digging our grave.
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm
I agree we are probably headed toward civil unrest. I think you’re clueless as to who is leading the charge.
Message from Matti
May 13th, 2011
10:58 am
“We need someone to keep an eye on these clowns we send to Washington D.C. to make sure they don’t forget who they represent.”
Right. Their corporate masters and special-interest donors. My Congressman represents the Koch brothers. They’re not in our district, but who cares? He’s their special little buddy.
JKL2
May 13th, 2011
11:00 am
Matti- .” How about a “will think it through using logic & reason, and looking at the big picture” pledge.”
Is that like “But we have to pass the [health care ] bill so that you can find out what is in it.” – Nancy Pelosi?
Message from Matti
May 13th, 2011
11:01 am
JLK2,
**Yawwwwwwn!** Really? That’s your clever retort to a call for logic and reason? **flick**
JKL2
May 13th, 2011
11:15 am
AmVet- The opposite of a RINO…
That’s a question for Paul to answer. Liberals love to show how we’re all alike by giving everyone a name (African-American for example) that seperates them into an individual group. We were founded as the melting pot. Now that’s not possible because we have to celebrate “cultural diversity”
Part of my problem with illegal immigrants. I have no problem with people who want to come here and become Americans. Democrats want to open the flood gates to people who have no intention of ever becoming citizens. Then they criticize anyone who doesn’t respect their “right” to remain unassimilated.
JKL2
May 13th, 2011
11:23 am
Don’t Forget- CBO says that saves money.
ROFLMAO! Now that is funny. Those guys are never wrong. Mitt Romnay says “What?” Check any story in the editorial section yesterday if you don’t believe me.
-the implication is that dems are a LOT more concerned about the deficit than r’s are.
You should really be a comedian. Is that why the demwits have proposed soooo many spending cuts?
Yahtzee
May 13th, 2011
11:27 am
SoCo,
You can’t even look up factual information, but you can espouse opinions about myself being a “conservative” and my apparent lack of knowledge.
All public employees are paid with taxpayer money. So yes, it does have something to do with their union dues. Lets take teachers for example. In most states, well the ones that dont have paycheck protection laws, teachers are signed up to have their dues money diverted to their union’s political funds. And here’s a link so that you wont assume I’m making things up (this took place in the 2008 presidential election).
http://theunionlabelblog.com/2009/01/24/teachers-upset-unions-dues-misdirected-to-obama-campaign/
stands for decibels
May 13th, 2011
11:32 am
And the Dems had 60 votes for over a year.
for the record, no, they did not.
Al Franken was finally seated on July 7, 2009, giving the Dems 59 seats, plus Joe Lieberman, who was notoriously unreliable (do I really need to recall his idiocy on the ACA? and how he’d campaigned for McCain in 2008?).
On Feb. 4, 2010, Scott Brown was seated.
That’s not “over a year.” That’s not even quite 7 whole months.
heading upstairs…
JKL2
May 13th, 2011
11:33 am
Matti- Right. Their corporate masters and special-interest donors. My Congressman represents George Soros. He’s not in our district, but who cares? He’s their special little buddy.
Fixed your typo. MoveOn.org, nothing to see here…
Yahtzee
May 13th, 2011
11:34 am
SoCo,
Take a look at SB 830 in FL, The bill would end automatic paycheck deduction of union dues; The individual union member would decide whether or not to pay dues. More importantly, to Democrat electoral machinery, SB830 would not allow union dues to be used in political activity.
Brad Spencer
May 13th, 2011
11:42 am
Send them back in time and they’d sign a pledge of unwavering loyalty to the Sheriff of Nottingham.
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
11:55 am
Yahtzee
I can look up factual information…
NEA was hit with a $800k fine because they didn’t respond to a suit by the deadline
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) — A judge has fined the National Education Association $800,000 after the teachers’ union missed a deadline to respond to a campaign finance lawsuit filed by the conservative Evergreen Freedom Foundation.
It wasn’t clear whether the order Thurston County Superior Court Judge Daniel Berschauer issued Monday will stand. If lawsuits go unanswered, judges can presume the facts and allegations contained in them are true and rule accordingly, but such cases are rare.
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news-story.asp?date=070202&ID=s1176583
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,56835,00.html
I’m sure you’re aware of the difference between winning a case based on evidence produced versus winning on a technicality. Automatic deduction for union dues is no different than automatic deduction for insurance, taxes or anything else. I really don’t have to expouse much on your lack of knowledge because you’re putting it out for all to see. Having union dues automatically deducted is nothing more than a union-busting technique that’s being employed by GOP majorities across the country.
Get back to me when you have something serious.
Jay
May 13th, 2011
11:58 am
For example, I wonder who leaked details such as this?
The biggest secret in the special operations community—what gun did SEALs from “DevGru” kill Osama bin Laden with—has been revealed. Two military gear blogs, citing multiple insider sources, credit the highly reliable HK416 rifle, an M-16 type weapon, with the “double tap” of 5.56 mm bullets to bin Laden’s head.
Some undersecretary of state? To a military gear blog?
Somehow, I just don’t think so.
Southern Comfort
May 13th, 2011
12:03 pm
Jay
Wrong thread possibly?
Jay
May 13th, 2011
12:04 pm
oooh .. perhaps. :>)
Bruiser
May 13th, 2011
12:21 pm
What fun it is to watch Jay, Cynthia, and the other bed-wetting, feckless liberals go into overdrive to try to put down everything conservative! While Prezbo continues dismantle America ideals day by day, they say nothing. Pathetic, really.
willie lynch
May 13th, 2011
1:36 pm
From Bloomberg: Poll: Investors Say Tax Hike Needed to Cut U.S. Deficit.
Jay
May 13th, 2011
2:58 pm
jm, if I was George Mitchell I would never even have taken the job. There is no job in the first place; it’s hopeless, absolutely hopeless, and in the long run that hopelessness poses an existential danger to Israel.
But hey, it’s their country.
TnGelding
May 14th, 2011
1:12 am
Good for Coburn and Chambliss. Taxes will eventually be raised if the GOP let’s it come to a vote in the House. A small part? I’d say it has to be at least half.
Grover is accountable to his donors
May 14th, 2011
8:29 am
Chambliss and his GOP buds are chickens. They fear the tea party, the social conservatives, the weapons contractors, wall street, large corporate interests, and Grover.
It’s fun watching them twist in the wind.
yuzeyurbrane
May 15th, 2011
1:49 pm
Norquist and people who really believe in his ideas reveal the shallow and vapid nature of what passes for conservative political and economic thought. I have never been a fan of Chambliss so it says something when he is considered the reasonable centrist in this discussion. God help our Republic.
What's wrong with you people?
May 15th, 2011
2:11 pm
You know what astounds me? The way they talk about Social Security and Medicare as entitlement programs. We have paid and paid and paid into these programs and we ARE NOT asking for a handout to get our money back from them. What not ONE person on the hill will talk about is Medicaid, which IS an entitlement program. How about cutting welfare (the biggest ponzi scheme ever) and Medicaid? The people that receive these have NEVER put one dime into it, yet they are as large of an expenditure as SS and Medicare. STOP MEDICAID and save many billions!
midtownguy
May 15th, 2011
3:02 pm
When the Georgia congressional delegation agrees to slash agricultural subsidies I will believe they are serious about balancing the budget. Until then, its all just smoke and mirrors.
Straight Talk
May 15th, 2011
5:37 pm
midtownguy is right on target. This country is broke. We do not have the money for subsidies of any kind for any reason. Saxby Chambliss needs to stop supporting subsidies for his agriculture buddies [aka big corporate farms] and quits trying to impress us that he is ‘bringing home the bacon’ by pushing for deepening the Port of Savannah. Saxby needs to wake up and smell the coffee. The November 2010 election results were not a one-off event. The public understands the country is broke. The voters will no longer tolerate being asked to pay higher taxes when our money is now being squandered. When will our elected officials in Washington understand that? Unless they demonstrate that understanding with their word and actions, it is time for new ones representing Georgia.
Dave
May 15th, 2011
5:42 pm
The Georgia politicians promise not to “raise revenue?” I suppose they don’t consider fees, not taxes mind you, to be revenue. But, isn’t revenue i what comes in, be it fees, taxes, interest earned on either and a few other things. And didn’t they raise a bunch of “not taxes” in this latest session of the legislature? What is it that I missed? Oh, don’t pay any attention to what politicians say, only what they do.
ATL Guy
May 15th, 2011
6:03 pm
The Republicans have a ticking time bomb on their hands that will explode right in the midst of the 2012 campaign and they are trying to avoid talking about it at all costs: former Senator John Ensign. The Justice Department will decide soon whether to bring charges against Ensign for violating a whole host of federal and ethics laws. Once that is decided sitting Republican Senator (Tom Coburn), a Republican Presidential candidate (Rick Santorum) and a bunch of other national Republicans will be on the hot seat because they helped conceal this messy, nasty affair. If they aren’t worried yet, they need to be. John Ensign would be the gift that keeps on giving because he could take down the entire Republican field with him come 2012.
RGB
May 15th, 2011
6:07 pm
“According to a list on Norquist’s website…..and 50 other legislators have all signed an oath to never, under any conditions, agree to raise government revenue.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the signatories agreed not to raise tax rates which is not the same as raising government revenue.
In fact, should the economy ever recover (which is doubtful under the current administration), the increased economic activity would indeed raise government revenue.
But if you’re a lib and your only goal is to pound “the rich” job creators, then it’s not about raising revenue–it’s strictly a punishment thing. Obama even admitted that raising tax rates often produces less revenue and he justified it in terms of “faiiiiiirrrrrrnessss”.
As Neal Boortz pointed out, yes Neal Boortz, if you taxed everyone making more than $100k/year at 100% (thereby confiscating everything they earn), that totals $1.58 trillion–which is less than Obama’s annual deficit.
And when you take everything somebody earns, funny thing, they don’t often continue working–which causes more government dependence which is, of course, the Democrats’ goal.
The Statist Leftist Democrats will forever be known as The Destroyers. What a legacy.
Dave
May 15th, 2011
6:19 pm
RGB,
Money is money isn’t it? What’s the difference between a pledge not to raise taxes and a pledge not raise revenue, given that the basis of the philosophy is that government should shrink? GHWB said no new taxes and then waffled, it didn’t work out so well for him. These days, a wink and a nod seem to get politicians by on both sides of the aisle.
Obama Supporter to the end
May 15th, 2011
6:25 pm
“Has signed a public pledge to never, under any circumstances, increase taxes.”
Yet the GOP wants to cut social security and medicare! For all of you idiots who voted for the Republicans…you got what you desired. A KNIFE IN THE BACK!!!!
St Simons - we're on Island time
May 15th, 2011
7:08 pm
“No one ever cut their way to prosperity”
-the one, the only, Saint Ronald of Raygun
Their positions have the consistency of my 1 yr old’s baby poop
Obama Supporter to the end
May 15th, 2011
7:32 pm
@Bruiser May 13th, 2011 12:21 pm
You sound like a Republican IDIOT. The Republicans are going to raise YOUR taxes, give big corporations a tax break, cut social security and medicare just to spite president Obama and that’s OK with you???
OK Mr. Money Bags. YOU GOT LIKE THAT, UH?
Dinkdunk
May 15th, 2011
7:41 pm
Never seen someone so excited about raising taxe.
Sid Farcas
May 15th, 2011
8:07 pm
Since this seems to be the only place to comment on Santana’s bogus comments at the Braves Game today and I don’t give a rat’s a** what Book Man says about Republicans I will now vent. Santana talks abot immigrants doing labor that us Americans won’t. Well maybe he is right but, so what? As long as they are LEGAL immigrants and have to pay taxes like the rest of us and their employers set them up on a health care program (where they have deductions like the rest of us) then they can clean the toilets and work in the chicken plants and mow the yards of America…LEGALLY! It is the Fedral law that says they should be arrested if they are illegal. Santana and the rest of liberal nation seem to forget the laws are already on the books, just not enforced. By the way, there were some boos at Turner when Santana was announced, no mention in the AJC of course.
Now back to Book Man’s liberal rants about conservatives.
Sid Farcas
May 15th, 2011
8:08 pm
Obama Supporter to the end
The end is less then 2 years away. Enjoy the time.
Clinton "Skink" Tyree
May 15th, 2011
8:47 pm
Promising the taxpayers you’ll never raise taxes is like promising your boss you’ll never ask for a raise.
Imagine what your life and the life of your family would be like if you never received an increase in salary — or revenue, to complete the analogy. It would, over time, destroy the financial viability of your family and erode your standard of living living in 2011 and trying to make ends meet with your 1991 salary.
It’s foolish to take the “No Tax Pledge” and certainly an idiotic expectation to expect them to take the pledge. It’s mindless blackmail.
You can cut expenses, but eventually
Clinton "Skink" Tyree
May 15th, 2011
8:49 pm
Pardon the previous post. I had a premature ejac. . .well, it posted prematurely.
The last sentence should read: You can cut expenses, but eventually you have to increase income if your standard of living is to be maintained at an acceptable level.
Atlantan
May 15th, 2011
8:53 pm
You folks crying for tax hikes clearly don’t pay much taxes and are not smart enough to realize just how much you pay in sales tax, gas tax, ad valorem and user fees.
Govt needs to cut and cut some more, Medicare, Social Security & Medicaid all need to be readjusted. Once this is done and govt can clearly demonstrate to me a need for more to pay down debt then we can talk. Until then the call for tax hikes is pure rubbish by a bunch of weak kneed flowers scared to tell people no.
Grow up and go read up on The American Revolution while you’re at it. Saxby has been a disappointment. Oddly I don’t think farm subsidies seem to bother him at all…..
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
May 15th, 2011
9:23 pm
So in other words, every time the Democrats complete some monumental act of stupidity, such as the Stimulus (which was nothing more than an effort to keep the Democrat’s perpetual fundraising machine in action), the Republicans are supposed to say, “That’s OK, we think it is important for the productive elements of society to pay for the Democrats’ latest hare-brained scheme.” The pledge they should take is to cut taxes in half every time the Democrats pull another stunt.
khc
May 15th, 2011
9:27 pm
sorry bush tax cuts not paid for; we need to go back to square one on this issue…the rates clinton had when we were generating surpluses………….and cut spending…..
can’t republicans multi task
Obama Supporter to the end
May 15th, 2011
9:32 pm
@Sid Farcas May 15th, 2011 8:08 pm
And your point is????? See you at the finish line.
Pull My Finger
May 15th, 2011
10:12 pm
By the way, Carlos Santana needs to just shut up and play the guitar……..I don’t give a crap about what he thinks about us not allowing people to mooch off of our state……become a citizen the right way or get the heck out!
MrLiberty
May 15th, 2011
10:16 pm
Only Ron Paul has ever honored such a pledge. Ask Chambliss if he will pledge never to bail out the criminals in the banking industry again. See how far that goes.
Corey
May 15th, 2011
11:02 pm
Yatzee, why don’t you walk into the first government office you see and tell those governement employees how they can spend their paychecks? Better yet, tell them that they do not have the same rights as other Americans who work for a living. Tell them since their income is derived from the public via taxes that they can only shop at government owned businesses and live in public housing. Yatzee, do you see the fallacy in your argument?