King & Spalding withdrawal a hollow ‘victory’
NOTE: This builds on a post published earlier. It is posted here as the electronic version of today’s AJC column.
Silk-stocking lawyers tend to cringe when they see their firm’s name in the headlines. It’s one thing if a high-profile client makes the news, but when the firm itself becomes the story, it’s seldom good.
It wasn’t for Atlanta-based King & Spalding, which made national headlines this week. By putting itself in a predicament from which it had no face-saving escape, the firm damaged its own reputation and allowed critics to question its adherence to one of the core values of its profession. Not a good week.
The problem began earlier this month when King & Spalding partner Paul Clement, based in Washington, D.C., agreed to represent House Speaker John Boehner and his colleagues in a case involving the Defense of Marriage Act.
That law, passed in 1996, forbids the federal government from recognizing any marriage other than that between a man and a woman. So while individual states may recognize gay partners as married, they are not married in the eyes of the federal government, a fact that has consequences for everything from taxation to Social Security.
DOMA has always been constitutionally rickety. Defining marriage is a state function, not a federal function, and the Constitution requires that contracts created in one state be honored in all other states. Because DOMA treats gay people differently than heterosexuals, it also violates the Constitution’s guarantee of equal protection.
For all those reasons, the Obama administration recently decided it could no longer defend the law from legal challenges. (The law is still being enforced and will remain in effect unless it is overturned.) So Boehner and his House colleagues made the perfectly appropriate decision to step in and hire private attorneys — using House funds — to defend the law.
Paul Clement, a King & Spalding partner and former solicitor general for the Bush administration, agreed to take the case. Within a week, however, King & Spalding chairman Robert Hays Jr. made the surprise announcement that the firm was withdrawing, explaining that “the process used for vetting this engagement (had been) inadequate.”
Clement quickly resigned and joined another firm, where he will continue to handle the case. He made the decision, he said in a letter, “out of the firmly held belief that a representation should not be abandoned because the client’s legal position is extremely unpopular in certain quarters.”
Clement was right, and Hays and others at King & Spalding know he was right. In fact, King & Spalding attorneys have volunteered on a pro bono basis to represent suspects at Guantanamo out of respect for that very same concept: Even unpopular causes and clients deserve representation.
So what caused King & Spalding to abandon the DOMA case, lose a highly respected partner and call into question its commitment to an important ethical principle?
Pick your answer. Gay-rights activists had launched a national campaign to pressure King & Spalding to withdraw. Attorneys within the firm who believe in gay rights were angered by the decision to take the case, particularly when it was learned that a contract signed by Clement would bar everyone at the firm from taking a public position in support of gay marriage. Corporate clients committed to diversity — clients representing a large portion of the firm’s reported $700 million in annual revenue — may also have expressed displeasure.
Only Hays and his partners know how much weight each of those factors carried. But in the end, they decided that the interests of the firm took precedence over the interests of the client they had agreed to represent, and withdrew.
Some gay-rights proponents have seized upon that withdrawal as a great success, and viewed from one narrow perspective, it was. Unfortunately, it was a setback for the larger cause of equal justice.
Courts function as a relatively unbiased forum for causes that may not be particularly popular. In fact, the gay rights movement owes much of its progress to the willingness of the judicial system to lend an ear to unpopular arguments that the political system rejects.
Even those who believe that DOMA is bad law and discriminatory social policy — and I’m certainly one of them — should balk at using public pressure to deny any cause the counsel of their choosing.
– Jay Bookman
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395 comments Add your comment
Joe The Plumber too.
April 29th, 2011
11:11 am
joe fool: I would vote for you before I vote oblowhard.
Birther
April 29th, 2011
11:11 am
now that is some serious sh-t for politico….
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:13 am
Joe….there you go again. You cannot think on your own? That is really bad….your parents should have taught you better.
You mentioned you were disabled? What is your disability? The lack of ability to reason and think? (pointing and laughing).
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:14 am
Joe….You must have some anger about “laughing and pointing”…. is this because you are in a wheelchair and you are mad at children who have pointed and laughed at you your entire life? Just asking?
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:14 am
UGA — “Joe…You seriously make me laugh. Thank you for that, I needed it.”
Glad to help.
“You mention “evidence”, what evidence have you offered?”
Reread. The fact that HI Governor Lingle and the head of a HI state agency with responsibility for vital records reviewed the President’s birth certificate in the run-up to the election and declared it valid. Birthers have been ignoring that since it happened, despite the fact that Governor Lingle was a Republican.
Have you got anything to refute that, sir/ma’am?
“I think that is a violation of Georgia Law”. Oh are you a cop now? I think impersonating a Police Officer is a crime as well. Nice work.”
Well, you be sure to let me know when you think I have represented myself as a police officer, okay? Until then, shrug.
“Come on now Joe…..stay on topic, you can do it, I know you can…….good boy!”
Objective achieved — UGA reduced to slavering, outraged sniping. No longer running his “business.” (pointing, laughing)
USMC
April 29th, 2011
11:15 am
The wheels are coming off of the Bolshevik Band wagon…
Massachusetts House votes to restrict unions
http://articles.boston.com/2011-04-27/news/29479557_1_unions-object-labor-unions-health-care
buck@gon
April 29th, 2011
11:17 am
Aquagirl,
Oh NO!!!! Not BIGOTRY!!!! I can’t take it anymore! I’m finished, humiliated, …..Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
“All your floral yakking ”
Lol. That’s a keeper!
Well, to be fair, I take note of your ‘hood’ rap that all Republican presidential candidates (besides Mr. Trump) must seem to honor and grant the respect as honest dialogue, even when it is more petulant and whiny than anything WE say. Good try Aquagirl, or should I say, “Civil” Cynthia Tucker? I’m immune to name-calling and I’m not cowed by stupidity, especially when sprinkled around so cavalierly by a race-baiting parrot.
Jay,
“Buck once again posts with his characteristic blithe disregard for the facts.”
ONCE AGAIN?!!!
Come now, Jay. I’m one of the taller conservative trees on this blog of yours, (and yes, I admit, you seem to be right here, and I do not have the inclination nor the time to see if you are,) but I will trust you. I don’t know that I remember concretely the one admission you’ve made to me.
My guess is that if you could cut this tree down more often you surely would, especially seeing that I myself call you out as deficient in logic, facts and argument almost daily. My sense from your post today is that whenever you can, you will. Am I right? If I am wrong so often, I/we expect you to correct me like you did today. In fact, that goes for anyone here.
….or do you to pretend to just be busy gazing at your navel when my argument, in turn, kicks yours in the butt?
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:17 am
UGA — “Joe…..you are pointing and laughing?”
I am.
“Are you picking your nose too?”
I figured I’d leave the nose-picking to you.
“Is that from your brain injury.”
They say that brain-injury patients often exhibit aggression, poor language skills and loss of social skills. Are you sure *you’re* not the one with the brain injury? (pointing, laughing)
TGT
April 29th, 2011
11:18 am
Dave R.: I didn’t see anything you posted as a “challenge” until your 10:48, but since you insist:
Yes, changing the definition of marriage will have PROFOUND consequences that go FAR beyond two “consenting adults.” For evidence of this we need to look no further than California where the state senate there recently passed a law requiring the teaching of “gay history.” Once the legal defn. of marriage changes, what is to stop a govt. requiring similar activities when it comes to gay marriage? To think that this won’t happen is short-sighted and ignorant.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:18 am
Joe…..What makes you think I am a birther? Read all of my previous posts. I said that it should be over there are more dire issues that need to be addressed.
You represented yourself as a police office about as much as I did a pharmacist.
Slavery? Playing the race card again. Watch out for the big bad white man he may get you! ha
By the way, being that Obama is white, is he a racist too?
Thulsa Doom
April 29th, 2011
11:18 am
And in more serious news unemployment claims grew by 25,000 last week, several staples such as coffee, sugar, etc. have gone up over 100% in the past year as inflation is rapidly making its presence known, and gas continues to rise to record levels as does the federal debt- endangering the fragile economic recover. Double dip recession looming? With the community organizer in charge I have no doubt about it.
Joe Cool~President Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
April 29th, 2011
11:19 am
“joe fool: I would vote for you before I vote oblowhard.”
Thanks Plumber, but I’m not running in THIS election.
How life after McCain? Did you get finally become a LICENCED plumber and pay your over due taxes?
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:19 am
UGA — “Joe….politely? haha”
If you think I was impolite, you’re certainly within your rights to say something about it.
Since you didn’t, I doubt you found my questions and requests impolite at all, regardless of what you’re saying now.
buck@gon
April 29th, 2011
11:20 am
Taxpayer,
“Yet buckagon has no problem when Boehner proclaims his willingness to defund healthcare legislation in order to try to end it.”
Congress limiting an act of Congress is very unlike a President doing it.
Wizard
April 29th, 2011
11:20 am
TGT, I agree totally!!
Dave R.
April 29th, 2011
11:21 am
“Dave R., “equality” means that everyone has an equal right to marry an adult of the opposite sex if they choose to.”
Mirriam-Webster says: “The state of being equal, esp. in status, rights, and opportunities.” So you don’t believe in the accepted definition of equality then. Yours has a qualifier in it.
Remember your basic math, Wizard. There is equal, or not equal. No other options.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:21 am
Joe Mama….Ok let me ask you this question. Please tell me one thing you feel Obama has done to help the country and our economy?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:22 am
Dave R…..Now post the legal definition of marriage.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:22 am
UGA — “Joe….there you go again. You cannot think on your own? That is really bad….your parents should have taught you better.”
Do you have something substantive to add to the discussion, or are you simply trying to get a rise out of me?
“You mentioned you were disabled?”
I am.
“What is your disability? The lack of ability to reason and think?”
Manifestly not, since I clearly write and spell better than you, and given that I’ve brought your spittle-flecked rantings about the President to a screaming halt. Try again, young man/lady.
“(pointing and laughing).”
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Jack
April 29th, 2011
11:25 am
I wish I’d said what buck said.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:25 am
Joe…..You are the one that supports gay marriage. Please do not suggest that I am trying to “get a rise” out of anything regarding you.
Joe Cool~President Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
April 29th, 2011
11:26 am
“Stem Cell Research Ban Overturned By U.S. Appeals Court”
Good News!
Dave R.
April 29th, 2011
11:27 am
“Yes, changing the definition of marriage will have PROFOUND consequences that go FAR beyond two “consenting adults.” For evidence of this we need to look no further than California where the state senate there recently passed a law requiring the teaching of “gay history.”
OK, but not to be petty about this, but gay history can be summed up in a few pages as “French military heroes” or “intelligent people who voted for Hope & Punt ™ ”
. Not exactly something that will destroy civilization here.
Once the legal defn. of marriage changes, what is to stop a govt. requiring similar activities when it comes to gay marriage?”
And again, what do you care about the private activities of two consenting adults when it doesn’t affect you life, liberty or property?
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:29 am
UGA — “Joe….You must have some anger about “laughing and pointing”….”
Not at all. I find poop-flinging howler monkeys entertaining, that’s all.
“is this because you are in a wheelchair”
I’m not in a wheelchair.
“and you are mad at children”
I’m not mad at children.
“who have pointed and laughed at you your entire life?”
Your attempt at mindreading has failed. Wrong. But that’s a good first effort. Keep it up, and perhaps one day you’ll succeed at it.
“Just asking?”
I doubt your query is as innocent as you make it out to be.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:29 am
Dave R. It does affect our lives and liberty. Marriage is one of the most fundamental elements of our society. Changing it will change more aspects of our country that you realize.
Also, think about the healthcare and benefits costs for each company.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:29 am
Joe…..Honestly, I am just asking. Feel free to answer.
USMC
April 29th, 2011
11:30 am
More Federal Government Overreach from the Obama Administration:
Obama’s Feds sting Amish farmer selling raw milk locally
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/28/feds-sting-amish-farmer-selling-raw-milk-locally/
Dave R.
April 29th, 2011
11:30 am
“Now post the legal definition of marriage.”
What’s your point, UGA? I have already acknowledged that the law in this case is un-Constitutional, as it violates any equal protection provided in that document. Bad laws are created every day. Doesn’t make them right; just makes them laws.
Joe The Plumber too.
April 29th, 2011
11:32 am
joe fool: My life after McCain has been very nice thank you, I am fortunate enough to live in a republican state and my business is booming. As far as the license, I’ve had mine since 1991 and have never had a tax problem but then I am one of those evil rich , at least on paper, that you obozo bedwetters love to hate. Worry not joe fool, I am up to date on my payments, you should see no slowdown in your EBT credits.
Jay
April 29th, 2011
11:32 am
Buck, you once again confuse bluster and bold assertion for actual facts and logic. It is your stock in trade, witness your lame claim to be “one of the taller trees” …. etc.
A wiser, more temperate man would allow others to make such claims on his behalf, but since they haven’t, you have apparently decided to crown yourself with that title. You are king of a one-man kingdom, congratulations.
Wizard
April 29th, 2011
11:32 am
Dave R., there are other options……..there is “agree” and there is “disagree”…..and we disagree…..have fun thumbing through the dictionary today!!
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:33 am
UGA — “Joe…..What makes you think I am a birther?”
When did I say I thought you were one? When did I call you one?
“Read all of my previous posts.”
Read all of mine. Have I ever called you a birther?
“I said that it should be over there are more dire issues that need to be addressed.”
And? You asked what evidence I had produced, and I told you. Now you apparently think that I’ve called you a birther. Well, then, cowboy, show me where I called you one.
“You represented yourself as a police office about as much as I did a pharmacist.”
You gave pharmaceutical advice, did you not? And if you think I represented myself as a cop, then I ENCOURAGE you to turn me in to Jay.
“Slavery? Playing the race card again. Watch out for the big bad white man he may get you! ha ”
When and where did I use the word “slavery,” please? I suspect you’re looking at someone else’s post.
“By the way, being that Obama is white, is he a racist too?”
When did I make a charge of racism on this thread, please?
buck@gon
April 29th, 2011
11:34 am
LWM,
“Again, this shows your ignorance. NPR is not “close to Obama”. Not by a long shot. That is to say, they aren’t close to him the way FOX was “close” to Bush, say. ”
This is the big disconnect, right here. I am willing to grant you the license to claim that Fox is close to Bush. Compared to CBS, where Dan Rather was fabricating evidence that was true, even if it was made up, Fox was fair. This is the give and take of discussion, or so it seems.
The problem is that you simply take in this discussion. You don’t give. There’s no room for discussion with you. You’re right. I’m wrong. You can’t grant me the license of opinion to go along and say, “well yeah, I see your point. NPR really is pretty left-wing leaning, so is MSNBC, Rachel Maddow is probably the most biased other personality I can think of.
…And that’s just fine with me, LWM, because you know all those kooky charges of racism from guys like my own Congressman John Lewis, those unchecked uncivil blowouts from my former congressman, David Scott, unnoticed by “civil” people like say, Tucker and Bookman (far as I remember), and the Washington Press Corps that would rather spend 30 months of ink and paper knocking “birthers” rather than asking a simple question of the President… all of these things are not unknown to the American people. All of these facts, make people look at us, and say, “hey, maybe the conservative guy” (and we’re strictly “conservative” in your game (not just “people)) knows something here about what he’s talking about….. and looky there, that left-wing management guy doesn’t even want to be reasonable, meet him half way.”
If the gig isn’t up, it’s ending.
“This from someone who believes there’s an issue with Barack Obama’s citizenship? Bizarre reasoning there, Buck.”
Never said there was. My problem is the delay and the left-wing amusement that the President was apparently caused to play with the press that is in his hip pocket, and the consequent manipulation of his political opponents. You surely aren’t going to claim that say, Sarah Palin wouldn’t have been absolutely scandalized by failure to submit her long form birth certificate, had the same charges not been considered of her?
We all know that Sarah Palin wouldn’t have been left alone by the LIBERAL REPORTER who bought the house next door to her, were her situation similar. We can also be sure that FOX NEWS would have covered the story!
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:36 am
Joe Mama…..I understand that you get confused easily but I was referring to “Joe Cool” regarding the race comments.
@@
April 29th, 2011
11:39 am
Dave R:
Although ambivalent on the topic of gay marriage, I spend a lot of time looking into the what-ifs. The social creep (not intended as a slur to gays) behind leftist agendas has always intrigued me.
So what does this mean? That we shouldn’t enact gay marriage because of some sort of social Precautionary Principle
What is it they say….”The road to hell is paved with good intentions?”
Not saying that gays are goin’ to hell either, just saying the law of unintended consequences is something to consider before embarking on a journey into the unknown.
Dave R.
April 29th, 2011
11:39 am
“Dave R. It does affect our lives and liberty.”
Not “lives” UGA, “life”. As in, whether you live or die. In short, it does not affect that in any way, shape or form.
And please make any case whatsoever to your liberty argument. Please tell me how gay marriage being legal affects whether you are free to do anything you choose that doesn’t affect someone else’s life, liberty or property.
Thus far, your only arguments have been 1st century morals in a 21st century world. Some of us have grown since then.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:39 am
UGA — “Joe Mama….Ok let me ask you this question. Please tell me one thing you feel Obama has done to help the country and our economy?”
Certainly. Job losses have slowed SIGNIFICANTLY in the last year. Job losses accelerated horribly in the last year or so of President Bush’s last term, and peaked around the time of the inauguration. There was a period of about two years with absolutely HORRIBLE job creation/loss numbers. But about a year or so into his term, the numbers started to turn around for Mr. Obama. In fact, his job creation numbers turned around *faster* than they did under Mr. Bush, and despite us being a deeper hole than the one Mr. Bush inherited.
Unemployment still sucks, that’s true. But President Obama turned a worse situation around faster than President Bush did. We still have a long way to go to bring overall unemployment down, but we’re making a good start now, and faster than a lot of people thought we would.
I have said before, and I shall say again, that I am disappointed in a lot of what he’s done. But from my perspective, half a friend is better than an outright enemy.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:41 am
UGA — “Joe…..You are the one that supports gay marriage.”
I support ‘no special rights’ for heterosexuals. (laughing)
“Please do not suggest that I am trying to “get a rise” out of anything regarding you.”
It’s okay. I’m not that into you. Besides, I’m married to a woman and I have no idea what gender you are, sir/ma’am.
Joe Cool~President Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
April 29th, 2011
11:41 am
@Plummer
“My life after McCain has been very nice thank you,”
Great, sounds like Prez O has turned YOUR economy around in your area. Good news my friend.
“Worry not joe fool, I am up to date on my payments, you should see no slowdown in your EBT credits.”
GREEEAT, now all i have to do is get me a Caddy like that lady Doom always seems to see at the grocery store…lol
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:44 am
Joe….Unemployment was 8.1% when Bush left office. Unemployment is now at 9.2% and peaked under Obama near 10%.
How is that making it better. Tell me what you feel he has done to make unemployment go down?
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:45 am
UGA — “Joe Mama…..I understand that you get confused easily but I was referring to “Joe Cool” regarding the race comments.”
Clearly you’re the one confused, because you apparently mashed up a reply to Joe Cool and a reply to me in the selfsame post without indicating that you were doing it.
Poor form, young man/lady. You lose one letter grade. See me after class.
Joe Cool~President Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
April 29th, 2011
11:45 am
“Joe Mama…..I understand that you get confused easily but I was referring to “Joe Cool” regarding the race comments.”
???
I spoke nothing of race my friend. Lets not ASSuME and make up things. Being a birther does not have to mean you’re racist…..being a STOOPID, Beck, Rush, Kock (sniffer) Brother, follower works too.
Wizard
April 29th, 2011
11:49 am
Dave R., Rome and Sodom grew also…….look where it got them.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:52 am
Joe Mama…..Maybe you should choose a name that is not already being used.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:53 am
Joe Mama Joe Mama Joe Mama! Look Joe Cool misspelled “STOOPID”….attack dog attack!
Dave R.
April 29th, 2011
11:54 am
Something happen overnight to Rome that I missed?
Joe The Plumber too.
April 29th, 2011
11:54 am
joe fool, my economy was never down in the Clinton, Bush or oblowhard terms. Guess I chose the right profession, Service Plumbers never run out of work, we can’t be replaced by a machine… yet, and we here in Georgia don’t have to worry about unions or their thugs taking over our shops. Under the current pretender in chief, gas and materials have doubled in price but it still being America, I am able to pass that cost along to the consumer. Yes, life is good and in less than 600 days, it will be much better. P.S. I picture you more of a Lexus SUV driver than in a Caddy, as you cruise yo baby mama to the store. Your posting name says alot more about you than you think.
@@
April 29th, 2011
11:56 am
….being a STOOPID, Beck, Rush, Kock (sniffer) Brother, follower works too.
Oh my virgin eyes!!!!
buck@gon
April 29th, 2011
12:01 pm
Jay,
” A wiser, more temperate man would allow others to make such claims on his behalf, but since they haven’t”
You’re talking about wisdom and temperance? We are amused. I’m not sure Socrates ignored valid points like you frequently do. I’m not sure who the sage was who just went along and said, “nothing to see here, folks.” I don’t think I’ve honestly ever had such a lengthy discussion with you about anything, but suddenly the subject is about ME?
Interesting window into your methods there, Jay. You get paid to do this, right?
Now I’m what, “crowing myself” ? Well, I guess I could have used, “tallest” tree and been even haughtier, right? Who are conservatives here? On any given day there are what, five, maybe six who post as much as I do? –crowning? That’s a hoot. The NY times considers Obama smarter than any President around, you consider your fellow countrymen stupid if they are conservatives, and I’m the king of a one-man kingdom? OK, consider this kingdom sovereign and at rhetorical war with yours, how’s that?
So it would have been acceptable for me to create another login just to be more um…. “humble” about what you see as praising myself?
You can ignore the challenge I gave you, as you do daily. When you are right and then claim that I am full of gasconade only, it’s an opportune time to kick me when I’m down–to pile on in your own blog. Of course, you could be wise and temperate and let someone else do it for you.
But I welcome at all times an honest discussion. I have no personal stake in this whatever. Like you, I want my political side to win after a thorough struggle to discover the truth.
I have admitted my mistake, my “blithe” continuance before I had facts. What else do you want? I think I see the disconnect here too, as we had with LWM minutes earlier. It is simply this: I want to win, but I don’t want to sacrifice the truth in the end.
You just smell blood in the water and have been playing this game far longer than little old I……
….and you’re getting paid a whole lot of money to distort the truth as often as you do. Now you want to spend that time on me? Fine. I can take it….
….so too can Donald Trump. We both ought not be President, but we are here to point out faults in YOUR logic when we see it, even as you attack us personally.
TGT
April 29th, 2011
12:08 pm
Dave R.: Changing adoption laws, forcing institutions to perform gay marriages that would otherwise object, etc.
All of these would affect “life and liberty” for millions.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
12:12 pm
UGA — “Joe….Unemployment was 8.1% when Bush left office. Unemployment is now at 9.2% and peaked under Obama near 10%.”
I think I’ve asked you before if you wanted to see the numbers I’m talking about, and you’ve never said that you would. Would you like to see them and to receive a brief explanation of what you’re looking at?
“How is that making it better.”
The U3 number you cite is misleading at best, and especially so when you don’t know what goes into it, how it’s calculated and what is left out of it. Would you like an explanation of why I think that?
“Tell me what you feel he has done to make unemployment go down?”
Show me where I said that he had made *unemployment* go down.
Jay
April 29th, 2011
12:13 pm
“He was just as bad as a 6-year old who doesn’t stop poking someone when they tell him to stop.”
Come on, Dave R. Obama did absolutely nothing to provoke this. You are trying to blame the victim. The Obama campaign long ago posted the official birth certificate as released by the state of Hawaii, a document that any rational person would have and should have accepted as conclusive evidence.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
12:14 pm
UGA — “Joe Mama…..Maybe you should choose a name that is not already being used.”
And maybe you should pay closer attention to what you post. Don’t try to make your error my mistake. Grow up and take personal responsibility for your mistake.
At this point, it would be an adult thing for you to do, admitting that you made a mistake or two there.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
12:18 pm
UGA — “Joe Mama Joe Mama Joe Mama! Look Joe Cool misspelled “STOOPID”….attack dog attack!”
And when he starts flaming people for supposedly being stupid the way you do, I might say something about it.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 29th, 2011
12:20 pm
Interesting that in a discussion about rules of laws, courts and similar matters, the birthers still do not acknowledge that a document which says on its face that it is the official legal document and serves as primia facie evidence in court and entitled to full faith and credit under the US Constitution would somehow not suffice to prove the matter of birth and they demanded the non-legal document, blaming Obama for not asking Hawaii to waive their rules in the past for special consideration of this matter.
And then there are the blithering lunatics who claim that Trump won? Where are the tax returns Donnie? Where is the info your investigators were finding? What a maroon!
Jay
April 29th, 2011
12:24 pm
“a rational person would also wonder why the man has spent the money he’s spent and allow a man to go to jail while keeping a document hidden if he had nothing to hide.”
RB, no rational person believes those things happened in the first place. They are simply more chapters in this crazy fairy tale you all chose to believe.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:31 pm
Joe Mama…..You said “he is making the situation better”. My question to you is how?
Joe Cool~President Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
April 29th, 2011
12:33 pm
“P.S. I picture you more of a Lexus SUV driver than in a Caddy, as you cruise yo baby mama to the store.”
Well PLUMMER, you would only be HALF way right about my vehicles. One is a Lexus, yet not a SUV though and this “baby mama” thing, sorry my friend, dont do those. I’ll save that for you Carl Paladino types.
Joe The Plumber too.
April 29th, 2011
12:33 pm
He is making the situation better because with each passing day, there is one less day for him to screw up this country any further.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
12:33 pm
UGA — “Joe Mama…..You said “he is making the situation better”. My question to you is how?”
I told you upthread. He’s turned around the job creation numbers significantly faster than President Bush did, and from a much deeper hole than the one President Bush inherited.
Once again, I’ve asked you politely if you’d like to see the numbers on this, along with a brief explanation. Would you care to see the numbers or not?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:36 pm
Joe Mama…..”I told you upthread. He’s turned around the job creation numbers significantly faster than President Bush did, and from a much deeper hole than the one President Bush inherited.”
That in itself is a lie. First of all the numbers originally quoted by Obama have turned out to be false. Secondly, what good does it do to create jobs if you are losing them faster than you create them. Ever hear of the “funnel effect”?
Bush unemployment numbers
April 29th, 2011
12:38 pm
Does anyone recognize that the unemployment rates during Bush’s 2nd term did not go up until the Democrats took control of the Senate and Congress? From 2003 til the beginning of 2008 it went down every year.
Jan 2003: 5.5%
Jan 2004: 5.2%
Jan 2005: 4.9%
Jan 2006: 4.9%
Jan 2007: 4.5%
Jan 2008: 4.4% (Dems took over this month)
Jan 2009: 6.6% (Dems have Senate, Congress and the White House)
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:40 pm
Joe….Here are a few numbers for you.
9.2% Unemployment
67% of America believe the economy is getting worse
49% of America believe the economy is in poor shape
32% the percentage of businesses hiring
44% of Americans say they are struggling.
19.5% say they are underemployed.
42% Obamas approval rating.
Not looking good for 2012 eh?
mike "hussein" smith
April 29th, 2011
12:41 pm
Balderdash! Clement signed a deal with the Devil (posing as John Boehner) when he agreed to put a muzzle on his colleagues at K&S. I think that would have angered even those people who support DOMA. It’s mighty cheeky behavior for a newcomer. If only gay colleagues who oppose DOMA objected to taking this lawsuit, which you claim, this would not have happened. Then, of course, there is the question of what empowers House Republicans to launch such a suit. I never knew them to file suit when GW Bush decided he would not uphold laws that were passed by both houses of Congress and bore his own signature. He wrote exception after exception to continue doing business his way. That should have been an impeachable offense.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
12:42 pm
UGA — “That in itself is a lie.”
No, it’s not.
“First of all the numbers originally quoted by Obama have turned out to be false.”
The numbers I have don’t *come* from President Obama. Would you care to see them or not?
“Secondly, what good does it do to create jobs if you are losing them faster than you create them. Ever hear of the “funnel effect”?”
These are the NET job creation numbers, broken down by month. They are the aggregate of jobs created AND of jobs lost each month. Sometimes the numbers are negative. Ever hear of “mathematics?”
Once again, would you care to see the numbers or not?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:44 pm
Joe…..Ever hear of rising unemployment rates? You can not argue with the facts. Just because you dont like them doesnt mean they are false.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
12:44 pm
UGA — “Joe….Here are a few numbers for you.”
You asked me a question, and I replied politely, and asked you a polite question in response. I have now repeated that question several times. I think it is rude of you to continue raging against my posts and posting other numbers without giving me the courtesy of a reply first.
Do you want to see the numbers I have or not, please?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:45 pm
Joe…..You may want to read this….http://escapetyranny.com/2011/04/12/obamas-phony-job-numbers-exposed/
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
12:46 pm
UGA — “Joe…..Ever hear of rising unemployment rates? You can not argue with the facts.”
I certainly can. Numbers don’t necessarily mean what you claim they do. Fortunately, I have a strong background in statistical analysis and I know why the unemployment numbers are behaving as they are — and it isn’t what you think.
“Just because you dont like them doesnt mean they are false.”
Show me where I have called them false, please.
Joe The Plumber too.
April 29th, 2011
12:46 pm
joe fool, I must say I am surprised, with your “thanks for playing bi+ches” moniker, it was an easy mistake to make. Guess you don’t venture far from your MTV rap songs when posting huh little fellow? As far as Paladino, sorry, I don’t know enough about New York politicians to comment. I do know the few times I’ve visited the city itself, I’ve found it to be one armpit hair above chi-town for the disgusting award. As far as the Tea Party goes, while not a member, I’ve been to a rally or two and have felt the energy of the people for real hope and change, not oblowhards version. Imagine that, and I wasn’t even attacked and lynched because of the color of my skin. Perhaps you should go to one, you might be surprised by the fact, there is no white, no black, just American.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
12:47 pm
UGA — “Joe…..You may want to read”
In the absence of a direct, polite response from you to my question, I don’t plan to read any of your links.
Once again, the numbers I have don’t *come* from President Obama. Would you care to see them or not?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:47 pm
Joe….So you have no comment about the statistical data that I posted. I didn’t think you would. Truth hurts eh?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:48 pm
Joe….again avoiding the facts. I WIN!
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:49 pm
BTW….My numbers didn’t from from Hussein either.
Obama unemployment numbers
April 29th, 2011
12:51 pm
NUMBER 361 March Employment and Unemployment April 1, 2011 Reporting Quality… for Monthly Employment and Unemployment March Unemployment Rates: 8.8 U.3 , 15.7 U.6 , 22.0… employment and the headline U.3 unemployment rate numbers.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
12:52 pm
UGA — “Joe….So you have no comment about the statistical data that I posted.”
Do you want to see the numbers or not, please?
“I didn’t think you would.”
Do you want to see the numbers or not, please?
“Truth hurts eh?”
Not when it disagrees with ill-behaved partisans like yourself, no, not at all. Do you want to see the numbers or not?
“Joe….again avoiding the facts. I WIN!”
UGA . . . again refusing to respond. I WIN!
BTW, do you want to see the numbers or not?
“BTW….My numbers didn’t from from Hussein either.”
Why would I care what Saddam Hussein thinks?
Do you want to see the numbers or not?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:55 pm
Joe….”Partisans”? Who said I was “partisan” , do you know how I have voted historically?
Feel free to post what ever you would like. This is a free blog.
Who said a word about Saddam?
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
12:56 pm
UGA — “Joe….”Partisans”? Who said I was “partisan” , do you know how I have voted historically?”
Do you want to see the numbers or not?
“Feel free to post what ever you would like. This is a free blog.”
I don’t need your permission, but thanks, THREADMARM.
“Who said a word about Saddam?
Do you want to see the numbers or not?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:58 pm
Hussein says “I have never seen devastation like this”.
I ask…..have you looked at the economy lately?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42813800/ns/weather/
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:59 pm
Joe…..Did you cry this much as a child. Your mama should have whipped your tail!
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
12:59 pm
UGA — “I ask…..have you looked at the economy lately?”
I ask . . . do you want to see the numbers or not?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
12:59 pm
Oh wait…..you do know who your mother is, right?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
1:00 pm
This is Great….the failed Demoncrat seeks my permission!! I WIN!
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
1:01 pm
There is a new thread…feel free to stay here any play with yourself.
Joe Cool~President Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
April 29th, 2011
1:09 pm
“Guess you don’t venture far from your MTV rap songs when posting huh little fellow? As far as Paladino, sorry, I don’t know enough about New York politicians to comment.”
Plummer, Didnt know “rap music” spoke of NY politician Paladino. Think about that my friend, you’d have to READ to stay abreast of things like that. “Rap music” is cool sometimes, but not forte though. I listen to various genres of music.
“Imagine that, and I wasn’t even attacked and lynched because of the color of my skin”
You thought you would be???? Tsk, Tsk……
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
1:09 pm
UGA — “Joe…..Did you cry this much as a child. Your mama should have whipped your tail!”
It’s a shame that you can’t be polite and honest. It’s really regrettable that an ostensibly grown man/woman can’t answer a simple question and act like an adult in so doing.
I suspect that the two sock puppets above are actually you; it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if they were.
You asked me a question, and I replied politely. I asked you, in response, if you wanted to see the data on which I was basing my opinion, and I did so politely. In return, you have pointedly, rudely and repeatedly ignored my offer and have continued to post what I presume are items supportive of your point of view. It’s possible that you mean them to be persuasive, but I don’t find myself persuaded by a person who is as rude, intemperate and as poorly-behaved as you are. You might have a point, but whatever persuasive value it might have is greatly overwhelmed by your bratty, schoolyardish posting behavior.
Just so you know, I joined the Army during the Reagan Administration, and I voted Republican up until 2004. I’m quite familiar with conservative arguments and thought — so do you think that this sort of behavior on your part is going to win me back?
I’m sorry, young man/lady. I had thought that you were serious about this topic; it’s become quite plain that you’re not.
Thulsa Dumb
April 29th, 2011
1:10 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 29th, 2011
11:18 am
“And in more serious news unemployment claims grew by 25,000 last week, several staples such as coffee, sugar, etc. have gone up over 100% in the past year as inflation is rapidly making its presence known, and gas continues to rise to record levels as does the federal debt- endangering the fragile economic recover….”
Coffee and sugar are staples?
Joe The Plumber too.
April 29th, 2011
1:19 pm
joe fool: staying on subject isn’t your strong suit is it?
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 29th, 2011
1:31 pm
Trump should run against the Idiot Messiah in the Democrat primary.
You heard it here first.
buck@gon
April 29th, 2011
3:24 pm
“RB, no rational person believes those things happened in the first place. They are simply more chapters in this crazy fairy tale you all chose to believe.” –from Jay to RB
Translation: You’re crazy now, RB, you were crazy to ever believe Obama might not have the birth certificate he refused to release (didn’t you see us giggling about it after school), and you will always be crazy!!
It was YOUR fault all along.
buck@gon
April 29th, 2011
3:31 pm
“You are trying to blame the victim.”
Seeing that you and most major newspapers have committed a forest of paper and rivers of ink to this subject just to publicly mock conservatives, I’d say that’s what you are doing.
Now that it’s all over. Now that the long form has been released we wondered what all the hubub was about. But you…you’ve still got the right-wing crazies story to go on for another 75 weeks. Remember your quota?
Glad to see you got one in today.
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
4:28 pm
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:01 am
“Mr. Callahan —
Now, I don’t know what *your* problem is, but if I think that some civilian is calling disabled veteran me a coward, then I’ve got every right to call them on it. And you can go get stuffed with an M60 LMG if you disagree, cowboy.”
Fred J Harris
April 29th, 2011
8:43 pm
Ah King and Spalding the firm name brings to the minds eye that venerable old German word
“durchfall”.
Mooki3B
April 30th, 2011
6:05 pm
There are currently 222 members of congress in the House and Senate with a law degree….let one of them defend the law! Why do we have to hire outside and spend all that money?
Michelle Bachmann perhaps?
JeffreyRO5
April 30th, 2011
7:35 pm
I suspect Paul Clement was fired for agreeing to a contract the firm didn’t vet, and causing the firm great embarrassment, and turmoil internally.
More importantly, accused people deserve their day in court, not causes. Causes do not “deserve” a legal defense, like people do. A law, like DOMA or any other law, does not have Bill of Rights protections. For Paul Clement to imply that he’s a good lawyer for taking on an unpopular cause is extremely misleading. Atticus Finch in “To Kill a Mockingbird” exemplifies a real legal hero: representing a PERSON CHARGED WITH A CRIME otherwise unlikely to find a competent lawyer. DOMA is neither a person nor charged with a crime. It has no Bill of Rights protections. Defend it if you want, choose not to defend it you want. But don’t say you’re defending it because it deserves a defense. It has no legal right to a defense, not being a person accused of a crime, and such.