King & Spalding withdrawal a hollow ‘victory’
NOTE: This builds on a post published earlier. It is posted here as the electronic version of today’s AJC column.
Silk-stocking lawyers tend to cringe when they see their firm’s name in the headlines. It’s one thing if a high-profile client makes the news, but when the firm itself becomes the story, it’s seldom good.
It wasn’t for Atlanta-based King & Spalding, which made national headlines this week. By putting itself in a predicament from which it had no face-saving escape, the firm damaged its own reputation and allowed critics to question its adherence to one of the core values of its profession. Not a good week.
The problem began earlier this month when King & Spalding partner Paul Clement, based in Washington, D.C., agreed to represent House Speaker John Boehner and his colleagues in a case involving the Defense of Marriage Act.
That law, passed in 1996, forbids the federal government from recognizing any marriage other than that between a man and a woman. So while individual states may recognize gay partners as married, they are not married in the eyes of the federal government, a fact that has consequences for everything from taxation to Social Security.
DOMA has always been constitutionally rickety. Defining marriage is a state function, not a federal function, and the Constitution requires that contracts created in one state be honored in all other states. Because DOMA treats gay people differently than heterosexuals, it also violates the Constitution’s guarantee of equal protection.
For all those reasons, the Obama administration recently decided it could no longer defend the law from legal challenges. (The law is still being enforced and will remain in effect unless it is overturned.) So Boehner and his House colleagues made the perfectly appropriate decision to step in and hire private attorneys — using House funds — to defend the law.
Paul Clement, a King & Spalding partner and former solicitor general for the Bush administration, agreed to take the case. Within a week, however, King & Spalding chairman Robert Hays Jr. made the surprise announcement that the firm was withdrawing, explaining that “the process used for vetting this engagement (had been) inadequate.”
Clement quickly resigned and joined another firm, where he will continue to handle the case. He made the decision, he said in a letter, “out of the firmly held belief that a representation should not be abandoned because the client’s legal position is extremely unpopular in certain quarters.”
Clement was right, and Hays and others at King & Spalding know he was right. In fact, King & Spalding attorneys have volunteered on a pro bono basis to represent suspects at Guantanamo out of respect for that very same concept: Even unpopular causes and clients deserve representation.
So what caused King & Spalding to abandon the DOMA case, lose a highly respected partner and call into question its commitment to an important ethical principle?
Pick your answer. Gay-rights activists had launched a national campaign to pressure King & Spalding to withdraw. Attorneys within the firm who believe in gay rights were angered by the decision to take the case, particularly when it was learned that a contract signed by Clement would bar everyone at the firm from taking a public position in support of gay marriage. Corporate clients committed to diversity — clients representing a large portion of the firm’s reported $700 million in annual revenue — may also have expressed displeasure.
Only Hays and his partners know how much weight each of those factors carried. But in the end, they decided that the interests of the firm took precedence over the interests of the client they had agreed to represent, and withdrew.
Some gay-rights proponents have seized upon that withdrawal as a great success, and viewed from one narrow perspective, it was. Unfortunately, it was a setback for the larger cause of equal justice.
Courts function as a relatively unbiased forum for causes that may not be particularly popular. In fact, the gay rights movement owes much of its progress to the willingness of the judicial system to lend an ear to unpopular arguments that the political system rejects.
Even those who believe that DOMA is bad law and discriminatory social policy — and I’m certainly one of them — should balk at using public pressure to deny any cause the counsel of their choosing.
– Jay Bookman
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395 comments Add your comment
Jay
April 29th, 2011
10:28 am
See you there, jm. I’ll be peddling beer from 4-6 at the corner of Waverly and Edgewood.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:28 am
Southern….so you think the American voter has no need to see/read/know that information? WOW see that is where we are fundamentally different. Keep in mind he is working for us.
Isn't there another issue we missed?
April 29th, 2011
10:29 am
Poke Em,
I realize I’m just a country bumpkin. How is DOMA ‘discriminatory’ as so many write here? It defined marriage one way (others have different definitions, but for federal purposes, one man, one woman). So it doesn’t define two males, 3 males, 4 males, 2 females, 3 females, 4 females, 1 man and 3 women, etc. as marriage. If you don’t like the definition, speak with your representative or senator. It’s a law, it can be changed.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:29 am
Jay……Which brand of beer?
Dave R.
April 29th, 2011
10:29 am
“How can you defend a law discriminating against LGBT when you obviously recognize and encourage LGBT equality within your own law firm?”
A. They’re lawyers.
B. $$$$$$
C. They’re lawyers.
Case closed!
AmVet
April 29th, 2011
10:30 am
Damn, in yet another brilliant managerial move, I picked up Lowe in my fantasy league off of the waiver wire, after that first stellar start.
Now the clown gets pulled over for drinking and driving?
Zooks…
Better star looking for another hot starter…
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
10:30 am
UGA — “And Joe….How many years of millitary serivce did Obama have? If you are going to ask me about mine you should ask your “Commander and Chief” about his. All you Demoncrats are the same.”
If you’re going to call people “cowards,” and it if appears that you might be calling *me* one, then I’m definitely going to call you on it, Young One. Once again, what are the details of your military service, please?
If the *President* has called someone a coward, then that’s another issue entirely. But right now, I’m talking to YOU, because YOU did so here.
Now you need to clarify your comment, UGA. Whom, exactly, were you calling a “coward?”
Mick
April 29th, 2011
10:31 am
uga
Sorry, but the country was already ruined, remember where we stood in sept. 08? People like you and hannity have amnesia and everything begins in jan of 09.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
10:32 am
UGA — “Joe….please show on this blog where I have said a word about Clinton, Carter or FDR.”
Please show me on this blog where I claimed that *you* had done so.
“Actually compared to Obama I would vote for Clinton any day of the week.”
Shrug. So?
getalife
April 29th, 2011
10:33 am
In a corrupt system that the me generation has no will to change, Obama is as good as our corrupt system can give us.
Have we forgotten already the last time the gop had power and the consequences of the w disaster?
Are you going to vote gop to lose your own Medicare?
Reality check.
Wake the f up.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:33 am
Sorry Joe….I chose to enter college get my MBA and enter the professional world. I have since started and managed three successful busineses.
Read my post about the “Coward” I was actually talking about Hussein.
Dave R.
April 29th, 2011
10:33 am
“How is DOMA ‘discriminatory’ as so many write here?”
Because it legislates INequality. Something a government operating under a Constitution such as ours should never do.
“It defined marriage one way”
It defined marriage as ONLY one way, or worse yet, defined marriage at all.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:34 am
Mick. I beleive I was “standing” on the 13th story of my Lenox Park office in Buckhead. What is your point?
Rightwing Troll
April 29th, 2011
10:34 am
“Have we forgotten already the last time the gop had power and the consequences of the w disaster?”
Yes..
We’ve forgotten ENRON, Dot com bust, housing bubble burst, abstinence only, scooter libby outing a covert CIA operative, WMD’s, expansion of Medicare, etc…
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
10:35 am
UGA — “Joe…..once again you are comparing to Bush.”
Yes. And will continue to do so. Hurts, doesn’t it?
“You guys just can not get out of the past.”
I’m guessing you’re no student of history. Not surprising.
“IF you guys would look at the present and the future you may see what the right is trying to tell you. This guys is a joke and is ruining our country.”
I see no better ideas or alternatives coming from the right. And I see no statesmanship, no collegiality and no politeness coming from there, either.
When you crap on someone day and night, don’t be surprised when they don’t expend any effort to work with you or cooperate with what you want.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:35 am
Joe….Is that all youve got? “So”
Wow, this is too easy. Did you get any head trauma during your service?
getalife
April 29th, 2011
10:35 am
ug,
Stop lying.
Trolls have no jobs.
Jay
April 29th, 2011
10:35 am
We typically offer several varieties of draft, UGA, but not sure what the selections are this year.
Dave R.
April 29th, 2011
10:35 am
AmVet: “Better star looking for another hot starter…”
You could always take Dice K . . .
Rich
April 29th, 2011
10:35 am
So if DOMA is not valid, can someone have multiple spouses? If not, why not? Is multiple spouses a different concept from 2 men or 2 women being married? Why have marriage at all?
Wizard
April 29th, 2011
10:36 am
Dave R., so maybe people should be allowed to marry animals? Or better yet, adults should be able to marry small children?……..sheesh!
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:36 am
“Are you going to vote gop to lose your own Medicare?”
Yep.
Another episode of one-word answers to stupid questions.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:36 am
Joe. you must be talking about Hussein “crapping” on the right day and night. This is why the house is refusing to work with him and represent the people of America. Thank you for proving my point.
BTW…..who forced Hussien into running for president after Bush? Hmmmmm HOPE AND CHANGE. Nice sales pitch…too bad it didnt work.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:37 am
Welcome to the blog Harry.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:38 am
Jay….speaking of draft….what do you think of Julio Jones?
jm
April 29th, 2011
10:38 am
Jay 10:28 – afraid I have to go to work in the afternoon. Which makes for a very conflicted day. At least I’ll get to see the parade and sip a few beers.
Mick
April 29th, 2011
10:38 am
ug
My point is that you want to forget and forgive what got us to the point we are now. The real estate bubble devasted this country and by 07, the damage was done and led to the almost collapse of the world economy. Who was president during that time? Which party held the congress most of the decade until jan 07? Plenty of blame to go around on both sides and you want to pin the tail on obama for it all – bs.
You probably are lying about your office as most buildings skip the 13th floor..
getalife
April 29th, 2011
10:39 am
We know you cons will vote to end your own Medicare hairy.
So, the gop will get 30% of the blind sheep vote.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
10:40 am
UGA — “Sorry Joe….I chose to enter college get my MBA and enter the professional world. I have since started and managed three successful busineses.”
So you have not served in any branch of the military? Is that correct?
FWIW, I entered the military *after* completing my first Bachelors’ degree. College and military service need not be mutually exclusive. In fact, I believe the current maximum age for accessions, including the Guard and Reserve components, is 45. So as long as you’re not 45 yet, there’s nothing stopping you from showing your bravery and patriotism and signing up. Heck, with your education, you could even seek a commission through OCS.
Check it out, UGA. A serviceman calling the President a coward would carry a lot more weight than a never-served civilian like you doing it.
“Read my post about the “Coward” I was actually talking about Hussein.”
I did, and your intent was not clear. Quite frankly, your writing skills need a lot of work. I certainly hope that — if you really *do* run one or more businesses — that you have a competent secretary or administrator to handle that task for you.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:40 am
Mick….so you think Mr. Bush was a real estate agent or the leader of them….Oh I get it now.
Nope I am not. Lenox Park off of N. Druid Hills. Feel free to check it out. I may even meet you and take you to lunch.
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:40 am
“But what is particularly disgusting is when you want to pollute the most sacred document ever written – The Constitution of the United States of America – with your nasty homophobic amendments.”
No worse than polluting it with stupid socialist policies and amendments…
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:41 am
Getalife….you mean how Obama got 100% of the blind sheep black vote…..Have you ever seen a black sheep it is weird looking.
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:41 am
“We know you cons will vote to end your own Medicare hairy.”
Voting to end yours too. Guess you better start looking for a job.
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:43 am
By the way, you have all missed the point on King & Spalding and the DOMA.
Lawyers are one of the biggest cash contributors to Democrat political candidates. They are sure as hell not gonna represent a Republican House bill. It’s as simple as that.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:43 am
Joe….Hmmmm so now you attack my writing ability on a blog that has no bearing on my business? Having a hard time staying on topic today? They make ADD medicine for that. I am sure you can get it at the VA.
Actually….I do thank you for your service, but on the other hand you should not attack those choose not to serve.
In any case the way that you choose to debate the facts makes you a coward in my book. Great job.
getalife
April 29th, 2011
10:44 am
““We know you cons will vote to end your own Medicare hairy.”
Voting to end yours too. Guess you better start looking for a job.”
And that ladies and gentlemen is what this election is all about.
Get the word out to Seniors.
Mick
April 29th, 2011
10:44 am
uga
Double standard; bush not accountable for anything that happened during his watch, obama is accountable for everything that happened during bush’s watch and his own. That’s the game you play…
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:45 am
Joe Mama…we all get that you and AmVet think you are the only ones allowed to use the word “coward.”
It’s lame.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
10:45 am
UGA — “Joe….Is that all youve got? “So”
Yeah. So you’d choose Clinton over Obama? Okay. I mean, what do you expect for a reply? So?
Geez, get over yourself, kid.
“Wow, this is too easy. Did you get any head trauma during your service?”
None at all. Were you medically barred from serving for some reason?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:45 am
Getalife…..Do you enjoy being so dependant on the government for your needs and future?
getalife
April 29th, 2011
10:46 am
ug,
McDonald’s is hiring liar.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:46 am
Joe…..Again…way to stay on topic clown.
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:46 am
getalife,
Why do we need Medicare when we have Obamacare? And by the way, Obamacare as drafted and enacted severely cuts Medicare funding.
Liberals are so funny…
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:46 am
Getalife…..really? Are you enjoying cleaning the toilets at McDonalds? Get back to work before I call your boss and he writes you up.
USMC
April 29th, 2011
10:47 am
“We typically offer several varieties of draft, UGA, but not sure what the selections are this year.”
Jay, please roll a keg or few of Abita’s “Purple Haze” beer down the hill from the Brewhouse.
Thanks:-)
Joe Cool~President Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
April 29th, 2011
10:47 am
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:41 am
“Getalife….you mean how Obama got 100% of the blind sheep black vote…..”
YEP! And?
Nothing new there buck-o. Dems have been getting the black vote for years. Find us some new material. Go find Obama’s school records.
Start looking on 400 S around 4pm.
A private sector employee
April 29th, 2011
10:47 am
Jay wrote: Even those who believe that DOMA is bad law and discriminatory social policy — and I’m certainly one of them — should balk at using public pressure to deny any cause the counsel of their choosing.
A agree. The justice system and rule of law are better serviced when the best legal representation puts forth their best arguments. While many would like DOMA to be defeated because it has no defenders, that really doesn’t do it justice. A well reasoned and delivered argument, followed by a well reasoned and delivered judicial verdict, goes a long way towards allowing/preventing future DOMA. Supreme court decisions tend to be vague, and answer only part of the question. It is necessary for the best minds to correctly frame the question to be decided, and thus establish useful new case law. GLBT should have WELCOMED King and Spalding. Beating the best argument that the opposition can muster is usually produces a more useful and usable outcome in future cases
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:47 am
Harry….they just dont get it. That will support their cause no matter what the facts are. They dont realize by supporting Obama they are destroying themselves.
getalife
April 29th, 2011
10:48 am
Yes hairy.
There have been many Medicare fraud arrests.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
10:48 am
UGA — “Joe. you must be talking about Hussein “crapping” on the right day and night.”
No, I’m talking about the right — including Congressional Republicans — crapping on the President, to include pressing the birther issue.
“This is why the house is refusing to work with him and represent the people of America.”
No, I think they’re doing it because they’re petulant and because they’d rather see America fail than allow a Democratic President to succeed in *his* endeavors to pull it back from the brink that *they themselves* pushed it to.
“Thank you for proving my point.”
You had a point? (pointing, laughing)
“BTW…..who forced Hussien into running for president after Bush?”
Who forced Bush to run in the first place?
“Hmmmmm HOPE AND CHANGE. Nice sales pitch…too bad it didnt work.”
It worked just fine. You might not have heard about it, but Obama was elected President.
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:48 am
Joe Mama,
Martin Luther King Jr. never served in the military? Was he a coward? Was he entitled to criticize the commander in chief?
Dave R.
April 29th, 2011
10:48 am
“Dave R., so maybe people should be allowed to marry animals? Or better yet, adults should be able to marry small children?……..sheesh!”
Ahhh, Wizard, I knew THAT usual response would come up.
First, what is your fetish with animals? Something going on behind your barn door we don’t know about?
And no, adults should not be able to marry children, Wizard, and NO ONE has ever suggested otherwise (except moral nut-jobs keep bringing it up).
My stance has always been consistent: CONSENTING ADULTS should be able to do whatever they want with each other, so long as it doesn’t affect someone else’s life, liberty or property.
What part of that simple statement do you NOT get?
Now TGT has been very silent since I challenged him, so maybe you’re man or woman enough to step up. Define “equality” and tell me how your view of gay marriage fits any definition of the word.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:48 am
Joe….cool atleast you do not deny it. I guess asking them to be independant thinkers is too much to ask.
getalife
April 29th, 2011
10:49 am
We get it ug.
Your party does nothing but take and you cons will blindly vote to end your own Medicare.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:49 am
Dave R…..what if the consenting adults are brother and sister? You are leaving out to many issues.
USMC
April 29th, 2011
10:50 am
And the news keeps getting worse and worse for the Obama administration…
Oil near 31-month peak on weak dollar, unrest
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/29/us-markets-oil-idUSTRE72D01W20110429
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:50 am
“Hmmmmm HOPE AND CHANGE. Nice sales pitch…too bad it didnt work.”
“It worked just fine. You might not have heard about it, but Obama was elected President.”
So you admit it was a just a hollow campaign slogan, and nothing more?
jconservative
April 29th, 2011
10:50 am
“…a contract signed by Clement would bar everyone at the firm from taking a public position in support of gay marriage.”
If this is correct, then this is the culprit. Clement screwed up big time. You cannot sign a contract that limits the future cases of the other partners. Other partners may be offered cases that tend to undermine DOMA. Clement’s contract would prevent the firm accepting those cases.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:50 am
Getalife….if we are the party that only “take”, then how come the Repubs pay the majority of the taxes in this country and the Dems utilize the majority of the government assisted taxpayer services.
Now you tell me who is on the take?
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:51 am
Getalife…..you didnt plan for your future and retirement very well did you?
jm
April 29th, 2011
10:51 am
what a foursome…..
“A Daniels candidacy could have a dramatic effect on the early state dynamic. For one thing, while the picture in Iowa is murky now as some of the leading candidates look to skip the state, Daniels as a Midwestern governor may try to compete there. That could force candidates like Romney and Huntsman to spend some money there so other candidates have to divert more resources to that state, as well.
More than anything, it could set up an epic four-way showdown in New Hampshire between Romney, Huntsman, Daniels and Tim Pawlenty, and shift the focus squarely onto that state.”
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/04/29/the_campaign_waiting_for_mitch_daniels_109700.html
getalife
April 29th, 2011
10:51 am
Get a job ug.
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:52 am
“Your party does nothing but take and you cons will blindly vote to end your own Medicare.”
Us “cons” have jobs and resources and prefer good health care to government crumbs.
You should try it.
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:53 am
“Getalife…..you didnt plan for your future and retirement very well did you?”
Well, he is a liberal, isn’t he?
USMC
April 29th, 2011
10:53 am
The most Transparent Administration????? It seems that Obama is cracking under pressure…
WHITE HOUSE CRACKS DOWN ON PRESS…
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/bronstein/index
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:53 am
Getalife….I dont want a job. However I may be hiring in a few months at one of my companies if you would like to apply. Good luck with that.
BTW….jobs are nothing more than paychecks. Seek a business or a career. You will be much better off. That is just some free advice.
jm
April 29th, 2011
10:53 am
Morning Jay: Democrats Should Worry about the GOP Field
The conventional wisdom is that the emerging Republican field for 2012 is a very weak one. However, like so much else in the topsy-turvy age of Obama, the conventional wisdom on this one is completely upside down. The idea of a weak GOP field is almost as ridiculous as a debate about a fifty-year-old birth certificate just as the economic recovery comes grinding to a halt. Almost.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/morning-jay-gop-looks-strong_558450.html
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:54 am
By the way, if anyone cares (which I doubt) my opinion is that government should get out of the marriage business altogether. And that includes treating married people and single people differently for tax purposes.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
10:54 am
UGA — “Joe….Hmmmm so now you attack my writing ability on a blog that has no bearing on my business?”
Said the person who slags on the intelligence of other posters. You can dish it out but not take it, right?
“Having a hard time staying on topic today?”
Nope. Obama still President. Birth certificate still says the same thing is said over two years ago. Republicans stil bawling and moaning. UGA still can’t spell.
“They make ADD medicine for that. I am sure you can get it at the VA.”
Are you also a pharmacist? Because if you’re giving pharmaceutical advice without a license, I think that’s a violation of Georgia law.
“Actually….I do thank you for your service, ”
You’re welcome.
“but on the other hand you should not attack those choose not to serve.”
Well, when you think I’ve attacked you for not serving, you let me know, okay? I asked you to clarify your “coward” comment, and that’s not an attack. I asked you if you served, and that’s not an attack. And I pointed out how you could still sign up and possibly even receive a commission, and that’s not an attack either.
For someone who issues a lot of attacks themselves, you certainly have a thin skin yourself, Young One.
“In any case the way that you choose to debate the facts makes you a coward in my book. Great job.”
Oh, you mean with evidence and the like instead of character assassination, innuendo, poor spelling and tired rhetoric? Too bad for you. (pointing, laughing)
AmVet
April 29th, 2011
10:54 am
Dave, Dice K is something.
The way he throws, it looks like I could hit him. Yet he has this knack of quietly shutting down these big league lineups ( I hate that guy! Just kidding…)
Besides, somebody else for sure already ha shim.
Masybe I’ll trade lincecum for him and apower hitting outfielder.
AmVet
April 29th, 2011
10:55 am
Re, that last sentence,
Just call me fumble fingers…
Harry Callahan
April 29th, 2011
10:55 am
All the liberal bloggers must be tuned in to the royal wedding this morning.
Dave R.
April 29th, 2011
10:55 am
“Dave R…..what if the consenting adults are brother and sister? You are leaving out to many issues.”
First off, UGA, you have articulated only one.
Second, while I find it a bit unusual, I don’t care if a brother or sister do anything together. As long as they understand the risks involved in doing so (see: Mountain people and British royalty
), not a problem for me.
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:57 am
Joe…You seriously make me laugh. Thank you for that, I needed it.
You mention “evidence”, what evidence have you offered?
“I think that is a violation of Georgia Law”. Oh are you a cop now? I think impersonating a Police Officer is a crime as well. Nice work.
Come on now Joe…..stay on topic, you can do it, I know you can…….good boy!
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
10:59 am
Dave R. so then will you want our tax dollars to pay for their handicapped child? Or are we going to be expected to pay for the therapy for the child when he/she learns of the truth?
SO you support incest marriages as well. Dude that is just gross.
Jimmy62
April 29th, 2011
10:59 am
By backing out of case due to pressure from outside groups, they’ve shown they can’t be trusted. Lawyers defend some scummy people, and that’s part of the system. Quitting a case you said you would take is about the scummiest thing a lawyer can do. Hopefully prospective clients will now realize they can’t trust King and Spalding, and the business will go down in flames, as it should.
Moderate Line
April 29th, 2011
11:00 am
Even those who believe that DOMA is bad law and discriminatory social policy — and I’m certainly one of them — should balk at using public pressure to deny any cause the counsel of their choosing.
++++
I would agree with you. I do applaud you for sticking to your principles in this case instead of falling for my side is right your side is wrong determination of what is right or wrong.
The legal system has it’s problem but one of the great things about the legal system is it hears both sides of the story. Any limitations on this lowers the creditability of the court. I find this to be a minor issue in this case because with enough money they will be able to find someone to represent them. It is impossible to create a perfect system. However, it does reveal that many liberals will surely dispose of the principles when their tribe wins. Unfortunately, that is the case with many liberals and conservatives since the conservatives suddenly dispose of their belief in states rights when it comes to gay marriage.
A better example of a limitation on legal system is your ability to ensure your side is represented is how much or the quality representation you can afford.
AmVet
April 29th, 2011
11:00 am
Jay, maybe I’ll drop by tomorrow and buy a glass of cheap swill.
And, as I will be working late this afternoon/evening, and because I am, by nature, a scofflaw anyway, I’m cranking up some Friday tunes.
(Here’s where all you homo haters are gonna end up!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXArkVFMaj0
USMC
April 29th, 2011
11:00 am
“By the way, if anyone cares (which I doubt) my opinion is that government should get out of the marriage business altogether. And that includes treating married people and single people differently for tax purposes.”
Amen!
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:01 am
Mr. Callahan — “Joe Mama…we all get that you and AmVet think you are the only ones allowed to use the word “coward.”
Restart your Windows for Telepaths software, Mr. Callahan, because I neither said nor thought any such thing.
Mr./Ms. UGA’s comments in re cowardice were ambiguous, and I *politely* asked if he/she was calling *me* a coward. It took him/her about two pages and repeated requests from me for him/her to *finally* clarify that he/she was directing his/her comment at the President, not me. And I let that comment slide. Maybe you missed that part.
Now, I don’t know what *your* problem is, but if I think that some civilian is calling disabled veteran me a coward, then I’ve got every right to call them on it. And you can go get stuffed with an M60 LMG if you disagree, cowboy.
“It’s lame.”
So’s your complaint.
Joe Cool~President Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
April 29th, 2011
11:01 am
The CONs on here today have nothing more to talk about since they cant talk about a birth certificate…lol.
What ever will you all do with yourself.
I Wonder Where She Is Right NOW….lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc
ATF
April 29th, 2011
11:01 am
“Attorneys within the firm who believe in gay rights were angered by the decision to take the case, particularly when it was learned that a contract signed by Clement would bar everyone at the firm from taking a public position in support of gay marriage. ”
This surprised me, this silencing of opinions by others. Wonder if it is typical.
If Clement wants to claim the importance of good legal representation for all, why muddy the issue by assuring that no one else in the firm could have a opinion in support of gays. This is a huge public issue – not a guilt or innocent question based on the actions of one person and consequences following only to that one person. Silencing opposition makes it look like one side of the issue has more support than may be true.
Birther
April 29th, 2011
11:02 am
Joe Cool. What birth certificate?
Joe The Plumber too.
April 29th, 2011
11:02 am
UGA, oblowhard did not get 100% of the black vote, he didn’t get my vote last time and he sure won’t get it next time. I think results will be alot different this time. He has the die hard votes, the bedwetters who would vote for peanuthead carter again or even mickey mouse if they were dimocraps, as well as the low class blacks who have called me a traitor or uncle tom for my dislike of this pretender in chief and let’s not forget the clueless bloggers on jay and cindys sites who have called me racist the last few years. He will not roll to victory this second time, the numbers just don’t add up.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:03 am
UGA — “Joe…..Again…way to stay on topic clown.”
Oh, you HAD a topic? I hadn’t noticed (pointing, laughing)
USMC
April 29th, 2011
11:04 am
‘Doomsday’ in the White House. Obama is looking extremely puzzled…
Growth data cast doubt over US recovery
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5f113d02-718e-11e0-9b7a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1KvOJoBeB
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:05 am
Joe…..you are pointing and laughing? Are you picking your nose too? Is that from your brain injury.
Birther
April 29th, 2011
11:06 am
USMC 11:01 – you can’t buy growth (ever really) but especially with a debt to GDP of 100%
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 29th, 2011
11:06 am
UGA: Southern….so you think the American voter has no need to see/read/know that information? WOW see that is where we are fundamentally different. Keep in mind he is working for us.
If the American voter stops long enough to realize the number of agencies/people have to vet him for clearances amongst other things, then the American voter would realize they don’t personally need to see his birth certificate. Since we have a less than educated voting public, we have those who THINK they need to see it. I know he is working for us. I also know there are other people working for us that checks him and others thoroughly to ensure he’s qualified to work for us. That is the real fundamental difference between the two of us.
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:07 am
Mr. Callahan — “Joe Mama, Martin Luther King Jr. never served in the military?”
Correct.
“Was he a coward?”
I don’t know. I avoid using that word to describe others. I can’t speak for you and UGA. In any event, the discussion was about UGA using that word, not me.
“Was he entitled to criticize the commander in chief?”
Absolutely he was, but I object to veterans being called cowards by non-veterans. That’s why I repeatedly asked UGA to clarify his/her comments, and why — when he/she clarified that he/she was NOT talking about me — I let the comment go.
I have not at any time reproached UGA for calling the President a coward. I politely and repeatedly asked UGA if he/she was calling ME a coward, and whether or not he/she had ever served in our military.
Thank you for your polite questions.
Joe Cool~President Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
April 29th, 2011
11:07 am
“UGA, oblowhard did not get 100% of the black vote, he didn’t get my vote last time and he sure won’t get it next time.”
Great, NOW we can dispell UDummy’s BS. Now Plumber, make sure you go and vote for Trump okay!
Joe Mama
April 29th, 2011
11:08 am
UGA — “Joe….cool atleast you do not deny it.”
What have I not denied?
“I guess asking them to be independant thinkers is too much to ask.”
How ’bout being good spellers? That too much to ask? (pointing, laughing)
Dave R.
April 29th, 2011
11:08 am
“Dave R. so then will you want our tax dollars to pay for their handicapped child? Or are we going to be expected to pay for the therapy for the child when he/she learns of the truth? ”
Careful, UGA. Others who have tried to define my stances have come up woefully short in the past, just as you do.
Tax dollars for handicapped child? Nope. Don’t want tax dollars used for health are at all. What’s your point?
Therapy for the child? Not needed if he / she is brought up in an open, honest and non-judgmental environment. You know, not in your house.
AmVet
April 29th, 2011
11:08 am
For our blogging Frank Burns…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qi2m6NyUP0
Birther
April 29th, 2011
11:09 am
uh oh
Why I agree with (some of) Friedrich Hayek: George Soros
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53885.html
somewhere a clock stopped
USMC
April 29th, 2011
11:09 am
Ignorance is Bliss…
Obama officials Unfazed by Dollar Slide… lowest point since 2008…
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703643104576291481753119362.html
UGA1999
April 29th, 2011
11:09 am
Joe….politely? haha
Joe Cool~President Obama Tells Birthers,"Thanks For Playing BI+CHES"
April 29th, 2011
11:10 am
“Joe Cool. What birth certificate?”
@Birther
This One…..
http://kenyanbirthcertificategenerator.com/
Wizard
April 29th, 2011
11:11 am
Dave R., “equality” means that everyone has an equal right to marry an adult of the opposite sex if they choose to. I believe what the Bible says so if you feel the need to discuss this further, talk with God about it.
getalife
April 29th, 2011
11:11 am
Nothing but lies from our cons as usual. Yawn.
You can stop pretending you have jobs cons because we know you are lying.