Why voucher advocates are allergic to standardized tests
In Pennsylvania, Republican legislators are pushing through a school vouchers bill that would divert increasingly scarce state education dollars to private and parochial schools. The move itself is controversial, but at the moment I’d like to focus on one particular aspect of the debate, as reported by the Hazleton Standard Speaker:
“The panel defeated an amendment by Sen. John Blake, D-22, Archbald, to have choice students who attend a private or parochial school take the Pennsylvania State Standardized Assessment given periodically in public schools. That way there would be an equitable standard to measure academic performance, he added.”
Now why would school-choice advocates reject a proposal to have voucher recipients take the same test as their public-school peers? That seems peculiar. If a private school accepts money from the state, it ought to at least be willing to demonstrate that taxpayers are getting value out of that investment, right? If you want to be good stewards of public money, you need some means of measuring performance.
In addition, since the whole idea behind school choice is, well, choice, it would seem essential to give students in public and private schools the same test, so that parents can try to compare outcomes.
Up in Wisconsin — where public-school students regularly rank among the highest in the nation on the SAT and ACT, Gov. Scott Walker is also proposing to broaden an existing voucher program, as the AP reports:
“Walker is proposing expanding the voucher program that currently is only available to low-income students in Milwaukee. He wants to expand the program to all of Milwaukee County and phase out the low-income qualifying ceiling.
He also wants to do away with a requirement that voucher students take the same statewide achievement tests as students in public schools.”
Hmmm. There it is again: Walker wants to abolish a requirement that schools accepting taxpayer vouchers agree to test its students just as public schools do. And these are not isolated incidents. Voucher advocates often oppose any requirement to subject voucher recipients to standardized testing.
The Milwaukee voucher program, for example, has been in existence since 1990, but the testing requirement was added only in 2006, and even then over the protest of Republican legislators. And now that they and Walker have regained power, they want that provision gone. The question is why.
The editorial board of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel solves the mystery:
“Last week, scores released by the state Department of Public Instruction showed that students in Milwaukee’s school choice program performed worse than or about the same as students in Milwaukee Public Schools in math and reading.
A day later, researchers at the University of Arkansas who have been tracking MPS and voucher students since 2005-’06 found that the two are performing roughly the same.”
Oh …. now it makes sense. They don’t want to mandate testing because that testing has demonstrated that students using vouchers are performing no better and perhaps worse than their public-school counterparts.
Again, the data go back only to 2005-2006 because until then, proponents of vouchers in Wisconsin had succeeded in blocking testing of students who used the program. That changed only after a major scandal erupted involving largely unregulated private schools.
As the Christian Science Monitor reported at the time:
“In one of the worst instances, a convicted rapist opened a school, which has since shut down. Reporters from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel tried to visit all 115 schools then in the program last year, and found a mixed bag. Nine schools refused to let reporters in, and the paper cited “10 to 15 others where … the overall operation appeared alarming when it came to the basic matter of educating children.”
One school was opened by a woman who said she had a vision from God to start a school, and whose only educational background was as a teacher’s aide. Others had few books or signs of a coherent curriculum. Yet they’ve been able to enroll students.”
And here’s an AP report on Milwaukee voucher schools from that same time frame:
“The schools are required to report virtually nothing about their methods to the state, or to track their students’ performance. Proponents say that frees the schools from onerous bureaucracy. But some say the lack of oversight makes them a prime target for abuse.
At the Mandella Academy for Science and Math, school officials admitted signing up more than 200 students who never showed and then cashing $330,000 in state-issued tuition checks, which the principal used to buy, among other things, Mercedes-Benzes for himself and the assistant principal.
Meanwhile, Alex’s Academics of Excellence received $2.8 million in voucher money over three years before the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that the school’s founder, James A. Mitchell, served nearly a decade in prison for a 1971 rape. Unlike their counterparts at public schools, principals and teachers at private schools do not have to undergo criminal background checks.”
Theoretically, the marvels of the free market were supposed to run places such as “Alex’s Academics of Excellence” out of business. Instead, government was forced to intervene, because what happens in theory and what happens in reality are often two different things. But in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, loyalty to theory is once again carrying the day.
– Jay Bookman
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470 comments Add your comment
GeeMac
April 28th, 2011
9:00 am
Jay, you may want to ask Maureen to put this up over at Schooled, where I’m sure it will get responses. It’s amazing to me, a public school teacher, how increasingly obvious it is that Republicans want to completely dismantle public education.
Cletus
April 28th, 2011
9:00 am
There is a mountain of research data also, including a study done for the Department of Education during the George W. Bush administration, which shows that charter school students do no better than regular public school students on standardized performance tests of this type. Of course, the charter school advocates never seem very eager to talk about this data.
Jay
April 28th, 2011
9:04 am
I think so too, GeeMac. The opening salvo is always “do it for the poor kids in bad urban schools — don’t you want to help them?” But that is cynical exploitation from people who otherwise don’t really seem to care much about poor people in urban areas. The goal is always to use that as a wedge and then expand it, as Walker is now attempting to do in Wisconsin.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
9:27 am
Jay…..you believe that having options for your education is a bad thing? Were you forced into which college you wanted to attend?
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
9:29 am
Neoliberalism unleashed in even more virulent form. If there’s no counteroffensive, we won’t even recognize this society in another decade.
jm
April 28th, 2011
9:31 am
Well I for one agree with the school testing if they get public funds…. and if the test isn’t a good test for one reason or another, then the test needs to be changed.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
9:32 am
“Neoliberalism unleashed in even more virulent form. If there’s no counteroffensive, we won’t even recognize this society in another decade.”
yep. we’ll all be marvelling at how rubbing sticks together causes FIYAH!!!
(not to mention, we’ll stumble upon the statue of liberty half buried on a beach)
oy.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
9:33 am
I know for a fact that most of the teachers hate the CRCT testing that is going on this week.
Jay
April 28th, 2011
9:35 am
People do have options, UGA. They just don’t have taxpayers pay for them.
As to college, I went to Penn State because I could pay in-state tuition and my family was in no position to help financially. I didn’t expect the state of Pennsylvania to pay my tuition to some Ivy League school. I went to the school they provided.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
9:35 am
My question is if they are receiving fund directly from the state…how are they a private school? Or are they receiving funds indirectly through kids that choose to go there and use vouchers? If it’s the second, then they are still a private school and shouldn’t be required to give Standardized tests.
Gordon
April 28th, 2011
9:35 am
Where is the correlation between education spending and student performance? In most cases, lousy parents are to blame. But since lots of lousy parents vote, we pretend the problem is not enough money and poor teachers.
Road Scholar
April 28th, 2011
9:36 am
UGA1999: We have choice now w/o vouchers!!!! No one forced you to attend UGA (if you really did) or forced me to attend Tech.We have choices when we buy a car; the only ones we won’t buy is ones that are lemons or ones we can not afford. Right?
Soothsayer
April 28th, 2011
9:37 am
Jay, if they can avoid testing, then the logic and impetus for not having to go to school with “Those People” disappears doesn’t it?
jm
April 28th, 2011
9:37 am
Jay 9:35 – I think a hammer just got dropped.
Doggone/GA
April 28th, 2011
9:37 am
“The opening salvo is always “do it for the poor kids in bad urban schools — don’t you want to help them?””
And MY answer is always: YES, I DO want to help them. I want to see them get the same kind and quality of facilities, and the same amount of money per student as do other “better” schools.
GeeMac
April 28th, 2011
9:38 am
Just making sure I have this straight…Take money from public schools and give to private/charter/parochial via vouchers, but do not require any accountability of the recipients to demonstrate that the money is being used to improve educational outcomes for the students. Meanwhile,continue to pressure public schools to demonstrate accountability through numerous standardized tests so that they can continue to be labeled “failing” so that the conservatives can bolster their argument for vouchers, and thus the vicious circle goes on and on…Is that about right?
Road Scholar
April 28th, 2011
9:38 am
“is” should be “are”! The coffee is slow to act this morning!
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
9:38 am
Jay…..Hmmmmm…..so this is funny coming from the left that they are not asking for assistance or government help.
I believe the education of our youth is vital to the growth and prosperity of this county. Regardless of leadership in Washington. If a parent feels that the government schools are failing (which they are) why not offer them an option?
Jay
April 28th, 2011
9:41 am
Poor parenting is a big part of the problem, Gordon. Only thing is, I don’t know how to fix that, do you? Stripping people of access to family planning, as the attack on Planned Parenthood attempts to do, would only make that problem worse.
Schools have to deal with the children we send them, and with the parents of those children as well. It’s in everybody’s interest to help those kids overcome the disinterest and worse of their parents, and schools are the only place where that can happen.
jm
April 28th, 2011
9:42 am
good news…. in particular the last bit in relation to deferred compensation
Anyone interested in the extent to which Wall Street pay has changed in recent years should read the most recent column by the WSJ’s Dennis Berman.
Berman sat down with an anonymous Wall Street “paymaster” and got a blow-by-blow of compensation for median mid-career i-bankers pre- and post-crisis. As one would expect there are a lot of moving parts — total comp has come down, bonuses have come down and salaries have gone up.
But if you crunch the numbers a step further, you come up with two telling data points: 36% and 49%. Those figures represent the share of total compensation that is deferred. Back in the salad days of 2007, slightly more than one-third of pay didn’t vest for at least a year. Now, almost half of all wages fall into that category.
In most cases, if a banker leaves before those payouts come due, they forfeit that money. As Berman points out, that has a “chilling” effect on how Wall Street workers think about career moves and how banks and brokerages think about hiring.
In other words, whether bankers earn more or less these days is a bit of a moot question. Banking is, and will continue to be, a lucrative profession.
What’s more notable is that the war for talent on Wall Street has slowly switched from an arms race — marked by ever-increasing bonus bombs — to something more subtle and strategic.
jm
April 28th, 2011
9:43 am
Jay 9:41 – ask and you shall receive
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-23/chicago-economist-s-crazy-idea-for-education-wins-ken-griffin-s-backing.html
Jay
April 28th, 2011
9:43 am
Well put, GeeMac. By jove I think you’ve got it!
Road Scholar
April 28th, 2011
9:43 am
UGA1999: “feel”? And what role should the parents play to better the education of their child and other attendees and the school they attend?I agree with you about the betterment of the children’s education, but teachers are not just baby sitters, they have to be “assisted” by the parents! How about setting goals, creating expectations, rewarding good behavior and disciplining their child? I’ll even throw in setting a good example.
jm
April 28th, 2011
9:44 am
Jay 9:41 – “Students selected to attend the Griffin school are enrolled in the free, all-day preschool. Children in another group aren’t enrolled in the school, while their guardians take courses at a “parenting academy” and receive cash or scholarships valued at up to $7,000 annually as a reward. “
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
9:44 am
Jay…..so your resolution to poor parenting is to kill more babies???? WOW
The only way to create a better future for all children is educations.
GeeMac
April 28th, 2011
9:44 am
UGA1999 – Not all government schools are failing. Poverty is the problem. And consistent cuts to education funding has created impoverished schools, mostly in already impoverished communities. Money is not the only answer, and taxpayers should expect a decent return on their investment, but schools alone cannot overcome neglectful parenting.
jm
April 28th, 2011
9:45 am
Jay 9:43 / Geemac – I disagree. I think that is certainly the agenda of some Republicans. Not all of them. And I don’t know the split and I can’t hazard a guess (and neither can anyone else).
Jay
April 28th, 2011
9:46 am
That’s great, jm. I hope that shows results. I think schools ought to offer, for example, classes to teach new parents how to read to their children, and give them books to do so. If you as a parent haven’t grown up in an environment in which that happens, you have no role model and no idea how important it can be, even if you want to do the right thing.
TaxPayer
April 28th, 2011
9:46 am
Well, the Republicans are sure enough continuing to educate me. Where do they draw their lines or do they.
Jay
April 28th, 2011
9:47 am
Contraception, UGA.
So much for trying to have a civil discussion, huh?
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
9:48 am
GeeMac….I guess that depends on your definition of “failing”. Poverty may be part of the problem but the root cause always goes back to education. Neglectful parenting can be tied to many more issues than just education as well.
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
9:49 am
Buon giorno, USinUK!
Gordon: ” In most cases, lousy parents are to blame. But since lots of lousy parents vote, we pretend the problem is not enough money and poor teachers.”
But, Gordon, you’ve fallen prey to another error: namely, the notion that because not all our problems are due to lack of money, i.e. some are cultural, societal, that THEREFORE the solution can’t consist of providing more money. That’s a false conclusion.
Gordon
April 28th, 2011
9:49 am
Jay,
No, I don’t know how to fix poor parenting. But I do think we can stop pretending that more money and expansion of the federal government’s role in education will do it. It hasn’t, and it won’t.
The first thing we could do is tell the truth about what the problem really is. How about actually paying people to NOT have kids?
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
9:49 am
Jay…..I have NO issue with contraception. We actually agree. But you made no mention of contraception in your post…only planned parenthood and the rights issues with it. The right does not have an issue with contraception, as a matter of fact we believe it that philosophy as much if not more than the left.
jm
April 28th, 2011
9:49 am
Jay 9:46 – agreed.
Normal
April 28th, 2011
9:51 am
UGA1999,
You called me a moron downstairs for my opinion, so it’s my turn to ask..is your Nom de Blog the year you flunked out?
Jay
April 28th, 2011
9:51 am
Most of what Planned Parenthood does is contraception and women’s reproductive health, UGA, and ALL of what it does with federal money falls into that category.
jm
April 28th, 2011
9:51 am
One perspective in regards to the real crux of the problem and the solution.
U.S. Teachers Are Failing, So Are Their Critics: Chris Farrell
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=adGpo5bfDHn0
Adam
April 28th, 2011
9:52 am
I don’t agree that standardized testing should be used as a sole or primary method to measure educational performance in many cases. For example, math might not be your thing as a student, maybe it never will be. Standardized tests marginalize students who would otherwise excel in more abstract and non-quantifiable areas. However that’s really not a reason to allow schools to exist that provide no feedback on education whatsoever. There has to be more to it. Statistics are fine and all that, but rarely do standardized tests really mean much other than test taking capabilities.
But I do agree with the rest of your piece, highlighting private school abuse and how the free market promotes abuse rather than solves it.
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2011
9:53 am
they want that provision gone. The question is why.
Here is your answer, from a man who went to heck and back to get what was his…
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 28th, 2011
9:54 am
In Pennsylvania, Republican legislators are pushing through…
——
If your only source of news was Jay’s column, you’d think the only party doing anything anywhere was Republicans. Apparently the Democrats are the do-nothing party.
getalife
April 28th, 2011
9:55 am
The gop attack education because lets face it.
They get the uneducated votes.
The dumber the people, the more votes they get.
I mean who in their right mind would vote to steal their own Medicare in another privatization scam.
jm
April 28th, 2011
9:55 am
In regards to the last bloomberg article. I’m going to knock it out in the private sector for 10 more years (at least). Then I’ll consider teaching.
My stepfather (who was a principal) asked me the other day: how much is enough? Well, I don’t come at the world from the same perspective, but I do think teaching would be something to seriously consider after having done pretty well (if).
Of course, turning someone such as myself loose in a high school economics or math class might terrify the liberal teaching establishment.
Adam
April 28th, 2011
9:55 am
Did we really just turn the debate to Planned Parenthood (90%, #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement) in ONE PAGE?
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
9:55 am
I simply want to know how accurate standardized tests are at measuring a student’s achievements and progress? Giving standardized tests, at least when I was in school, pushed the teachers into only teach the test. Even the best teachers I had would only focus on the test. It didn’t always help either. There were some people who were very smart who couldn’t take a test like that, and some that were not so smart that could take the tests well and it showed them being much better students than they were. Maybe the problem isn’t vouchers, government schools, private schools, or charter schools, but the standardized tests themselves.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
9:56 am
LWM – bonjour!
okay, after last night’s storms … and today’s education (and, evidently, contraceptive) political storms, I give you a dose of cuteness
http://www.buzzfeed.com/burnred/cute-corgis-want-to-watch-the-royal-wedding-281t
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
9:57 am
So Jay again…are we discussing contraceptives are abortion? Just say it….dont beat around the bush.
jm
April 28th, 2011
9:57 am
Adam 9:52 – standardized testing works just fine for Asia and Europe which are both kicking our tails academically. If you have a better solution, or a model and tool to read all the neurons in a high schooler’s brain, then I think there’s a business opportunity out there for you.
Gordon
April 28th, 2011
9:58 am
Jay,
I agree with your sentiments on wanting to improve parenting by offering classes, but the problem is this: if a person had the desire to attend such a class, 95% of the problem would have already been solved. The problem for most of the poor isn’t lack of information on how to be better parents, it is the lack of desire. I know how cynical that sounds, but my wife works as a school nurse in a public school and she has just seen to much to pretend any longer. I understand that the problem is passed down from generation to generation and I am no better than they are (I would be the same if raised in the same environment), but that doesn’t change the situation. Parental accountability is what is missing here – not lack of resources.
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
9:58 am
Doggone/GA
April 28th, 2011
9:37 am
“The opening salvo is always “do it for the poor kids in bad urban schools — don’t you want to help them?””
And MY answer is always: YES, I DO want to help them. I want to see them get the same kind and quality of facilities, and the same amount of money per student as do other “better” schools.
Darn, I must of not had enough coffee, I’m agreeing with Doggone again.
Adam
April 28th, 2011
9:59 am
jm: I am liking your posts today. Good article, and I think it may actually be a good idea. As for teaching, I gree with you generally, but I am concerned that in 10 years our educational system will have been gutted and hacked at so much that there’s no longer any point.
jm
April 28th, 2011
9:59 am
KIPP info
Ivy Leaguers’ Class for Poor Becomes ‘Platinum’ Charter Schools
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=afQOvU9A45vA
Normal
April 28th, 2011
9:59 am
Just got the email and I did my part. Donated to the 2012 Barak Obama Re-election Fund. Gives me the warm fuzzies and makes me feel like an American! Yeah baby!
St Simons - we're on Island time
April 28th, 2011
9:59 am
if they want to dismantle public education, which is the Republican goal here of course, dismantle Meddycare, dismantle the Army to private Blackwaters, dismantle the social safety net, why don’t they just secede as a group, and get off the roads & out of libraries (haha nevermind about the libraries)
Jay
April 28th, 2011
10:00 am
I agree, Gordon. So how do we address that?
We either do it through the parents, the kids or both. But not addressing it isn’t an option, given the consequences to the individuals involved and to the whole country.
carlosgvv
April 28th, 2011
10:00 am
The Republican philosophy is to make conditions as favorable to Business as possible so that Business will funnel some of their profits to the Republican election and re-election funds. You may be sure that money is the bottom line explanation for Republican behavior here.
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
10:00 am
The problems with our education system are really not all that complicated, and they are easily brought to light by a simple comparison of our society’s approach towards education with a society with a superior approach: e.g. Finland. There, it’s not at all uncommon for bright and high-achieving young people to aspire to careers in education. (Something similar is the case in Germany, a country that’s always been our superior in cultural and educational sphere, a fact we used to realize, and thus benefited from.) Teachers are unionized in Finland, it goes without saying, which also helps ensure stability and prestige, and quality. But obviously the other major factor is the “homogeneity” factor of that culture as compared with ours, which presents us with real opportunities but also huge challenges.
By the way, Diane Ravitch, one of the most keen critic of US education, will appear on NPR’s Fresh Air today.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 28th, 2011
10:00 am
Maybe the poor could meet us halfway and at least read their “People” magazine to their kids.
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
10:01 am
So, I wrote my last comment without even reading the column, being able to guess pretty much what the column would say. After I posted, I went back and read it, and found that I was correct. I would offer the hypothesis that perhaps the students going to the private and parochial schools aren’t doing better on the standardized tests because their teachers are teaching them the material they should be learning and not just what is on the test. Of course I have no evidence to support this, but you have no evidence to show where it isn’t true. And of course, without reading I knew the hypothesis Jay would propose – Republicans and more free market solutions bad – Democrats and more government interference good.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
10:02 am
Hey carlos,
I’m still waiting on an answer to my question downstairs: Is there any scientific evidence that God does NOT exist? Not theories, PROOF. Cold hard FACTS?
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:03 am
KIPP proves that “it is absolutely possible for poor minority kids to achieve at the highest level,” Rhee said.
She cited a KIPP school in Washington where, she said, 90 percent of students are performing on grade level, compared with 10 percent at a regular public school six blocks away.
“Same neighborhood, same challenges, same kids with those wildly different outcomes,” Rhee said.
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=afQOvU9A45vA
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2011
10:03 am
standardized testing works just fine for Asia and Europe which are both kicking our tails academically.
Any info about whether those nations allow individual provinces/states to adopt their own testing standards, which can’t provide an apples:apples comparison for parents who might want to see how their state/province stacks up against a neighboring state/province, the way we do here in the US under NCLB?
Because that’s always been one of my major beefs with NCLB, which I’ve probably shared here before–standardized testing’s good-or-evilness is a separate issue… But if you won’t have one national standard test, I don’t really see the point of federal legislation on this issue. Didn’t in 2001, don’t now.
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
10:03 am
getalife
April 28th, 2011
9:55 am
The gop attack education because lets face it.
They get the uneducated votes.
The dumber the people, the more votes they get.
I mean who in their right mind would vote to steal their own Medicare in another privatization scam.
Getalife, please show us the data for dumb people voting Repub, I wouls like to see a side by side chart, please show us.
I think Bush worked with Kennedy to help with better education in our country, something you obviously forgot.
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
10:04 am
jm – Don’t go confusing the libs with the facts. Also, Rhee might not be the best source for that type of information as she was apparently involved in the same type of crap that was going on in APS.
Normal
April 28th, 2011
10:04 am
Peadawg, Is there any proof He does exist? And don’t tell me the Bible tells me so.
Adam
April 28th, 2011
10:04 am
jm: standardized testing is fine as long as it is not your holy frail for educational performance. That ignores the human element in favor of drone drudgery. You can bet the countries kicking our butts care about the HUMAN aspect of their children. That’s the point I was trying to make. It shouldn’t be the only measure of a student.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
10:04 am
Carlos…..and the goal of the left is to funnel as much of the public sector tax revenue is funneled to low income and low educated votes…Hince welfare and medicare. The are pimping their votes. Great job.
This is exactly why the left will not enfore immigration laws and is suing a state for enforcing federal immigration policy. They want the hispanic vote. They are selling their public duty for votes. Great job!
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
10:05 am
Normal…..DING DING DING!
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:06 am
sfd 10:03 – there’s a consortium of states (over 25) working on developing an uniform testing program between their states. It may be way more than 25 now….
Normal
April 28th, 2011
10:07 am
UGA1999
Normal…..DING DING DING!
??? Havin’ a mental short circuit???
Sean
April 28th, 2011
10:07 am
Just like from the Wizard of OZ… “Dont look behing the curtain! Voucher are all powerfull.”
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
10:07 am
“Is there any proof He does exist? And don’t tell me the Bible tells me so.”
Nope there is NO scientific evidence that says He does exist, it’s called faith. Feel free to answer my question as well. I’d be interested in seeing the concrete evidence (not theories) that says God does NOT exist.
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:08 am
sfd
A consortium of 31 states led by Susan Gendron, Maine’s former education commissioner, has won a $160 million federal award to remake standardized testing, the U.S. Department of Education said Thursday.
The SMARTER Balanced Assessment Consortium, of which Maine is a member, won a portion of $350 million in federal funds allocated to bankroll the development of new standardized tests for students.
The award came as part of the federal Race to the Top education competition, which awarded $4 billion to states to support education reforms.
The SMARTER group was one of two to win Race to the Top testing awards. The other winning consortium, which claimed $170 million, has 26 member states including California, Florida and Massachusetts.
http://www.pressherald.com/news/consortium-wins-grant-for-testing_2010-09-03.html
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
10:09 am
Normal…feeling fine….you?
carlosgvv
April 28th, 2011
10:09 am
UGA1999
I have said many times that America is the only country that would allow 12 million plus illegals to come in and stay. I have also said they should ALL be deported and the cost borne by the countries they came from. If these countries won’t pay, cut off their foreign aid. Do you agree?
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2011
10:10 am
jm @ 10.06, thanks for that info. I think I found the consortium of which you speak…
http://www.k12.wa.us/smarter/
(surprise surprise, GA’s not part of it.)
Jay
April 28th, 2011
10:10 am
I’m pretty sure Georgia, as part of the Race to the Top effort, is part of that effort as well, jm.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
10:10 am
Carlos….agreed, but just because we believe it doesnt mean the government will enforce it. As a matter of fact the federal government is suing states so that they WILL NOT enforce the federal law. Great job Obama.
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
10:11 am
How about we don’t have a conversation about religion on a political blog? That way we can stick with things that we know for sure do/don’t exist, and don’t have to piss each other off in new ways. I mean, we piss each other off enough without having to throw religion into the mix.
Adam
April 28th, 2011
10:11 am
In science, you are supposed to work towards proof by attempting to disprove something. God cannot be applied to science, because that is an abstract concept that has no testable evidence. Therefore, can we drop the subject? Believe what you want to so long as it doesn’t lead you to hate please.
Where's My Party?
April 28th, 2011
10:12 am
(ir)……Excellent, excellent post at 10:01.
RW-(the original)
April 28th, 2011
10:12 am
Jay
April 28th, 2011
9:58 am
irRational, that’s a legitimate debate.
I think we need standardized tests; the question is how much weight we give them and to what use we put them.
There you go, Jay B. I thought I’d do the heavy lifting and bring that comment up here where it probably belongs for you. No thanks necessary.
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2011
10:13 am
jm, again, thanks.
note to self: always hit “refresh” before “submit”
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:13 am
sfd / Jay
GA is part of a different consortium
“The SMARTER group was one of two to win Race to the Top testing awards. The other winning consortium, which claimed $170 million, has 26 member states including California, Florida and Massachusetts.”
I think GA must be part of the second consortium….
Doggone/GA
April 28th, 2011
10:14 am
“How about we don’t have a conversation about religion on a political blog? ”
How about – if you don’t like how Jay runs HIS blog, you start your OWN and then YOU can set the rules.
Normal
April 28th, 2011
10:15 am
Peadawg,
I have no problem believing in a “God”. In fact, there is enough that has happened out there to imply there is a “Higher Power”. My problem is with “Religion”. Religion is man made and because so, it is flawed. Religion inhibits. No Religion is good for mankind.
It’s your right to believe what you want, but please do the polite thing and keep it to yourself.
carlosgvv
April 28th, 2011
10:15 am
Peadawg
God can neither be scientificlly proved or disproved. If you are a true believer I can only assume your teachers in school were so browbeat by fundamentalist parents and school boards that they were afraid to teach you the difference between faith and fact. Of course, you could easily learn this by just looking in the dictionary, but I know you won’t. You would rather have the comfort of your delusional religious world.
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:15 am
GA Consortium
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/09/by_james_vaznis_2.html
Massachusetts is among 11 entities leading the 26-state consortium. The other leaders, known as governing states, are Arizona, the District of Columbia, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana, Maryland, New York, Rhode Island, and Tennessee.
The remaining consortium members are Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Dakota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and South Carolina.
St Simons - we're on Island time
April 28th, 2011
10:15 am
None of this current crop of Republicans could make it on an island. (on this blog jm could, he has a conscience). On the island, you learn quick, its hammered home, that we’re All In This Together. This every-man-for-himself disease will make us extinct. You know, back when I lived in Atlanta, Atlanta was an “island” if you will, in a sea (the South) of cringe-worthy-can’t-look-away-car-wreck of backwardness.
Think about it. We’re all in this together. You know its true.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
10:16 am
(ir) Rational and Adam,
I’m just trying to make a point to carlos, who said there’s no proof that God exists. Yet there’s no proof that God does not exists either. Nobody’s forcing you to read my posts…please feel free to skip over them if you please.
Gordon
April 28th, 2011
10:16 am
Parental Accountability:
1) Say out loud that parents are the main part of the problem. Not bad schools or bad teachers or lack of money. That doesn’t mean there aren’t bad teachers (just like in every profession), or places where more money could be used, but stop the myth that those are the biggest problems.
2) Force parents by law to attend parent/teacher meetings, given sufficient notice.
3) Force parents by law to keep their contact information up to date. My wife, the nurse, can’t even get in touch with a large number of parents. It is not because they don’t have phones.
4) As I mentioned earlier, actually reward people for not having children. Below a certain income level and between certain ages, you get money back each year.
5) Allow states to try different things. See what works and what doesn’t.
Jay, you are exactly right that not addressing it is an option. But when what you have been doing has not been working, you try something new. We get so little from people because we expect so little but the stakes are VERY high. These are people and they can be saved.
Normal
April 28th, 2011
10:16 am
Feeling fine…
F-reaked out
I-nsecure
N-eurotic
E-motional…
Feelin’ fine? Sorry to hear it…
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
10:17 am
peadawg – short answer – you can’t prove a negative.
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
10:17 am
Adam: “In science, you are supposed to work towards proof by attempting to disprove something. God cannot be applied to science, because that is an abstract concept that has no testable evidence”
Actually, Descartes, one of the founding figures of modern science, would have disagreed. For him, God remains very much in the picture as the ultimate guarantor and support of all truth, scientific or otherwise. For example, if 2 + 2 = 4, it’s because God willed it so. And as a corollary, 2 + 2 = 4 could cease to be true at any time should God will it otherwise.
Adam
April 28th, 2011
10:17 am
I admit surprise at so many southern states being in that consortium. Crossing my fingers that it helps our educational system for the better.
Doggone/GA
April 28th, 2011
10:19 am
“It’s your right to believe what you want, but please do the polite thing and keep it to yourself.”
And I don’t think there’s any need to do that. We’ve had some very interesting, RESPECTFUL discussions about religion here…many times.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
10:19 am
“Peadawg
God can neither be scientificlly proved or disproved. ”
That’s my point, carlos. Believe what you want, but there’s 0, ZERO, proof that he does NOT exist. Unless you can find proof, then please refrain from your ignorant comments about me being delusional.
Adam
April 28th, 2011
10:20 am
LWM: maybe he would argue that, but even he would agree that is belief, not science.
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2011
10:22 am
I think GA must be part of the second consortium….
Anyone know the actual name of this group? I’m not having any luck googling “race to the top”, and I’d like to know just what my state’s up to.
(an official apology for my catty comment @ 10.10 is riding on it, folks.)
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 28th, 2011
10:22 am
believe the education of our youth is vital to the growth and prosperity of this county. Regardless of leadership in Washington. If a parent feels that the government schools are failing (which they are) why not offer them an option?
They already have several options. They may not like them, but the options are there.
#1 Move to a better school district
#2 Enroll your child in a private/charter school, and pay for it yourself.
#3 Actually spend time to rear your child and help him/her with school work yourself.
Vouchers are nothing but another form of unnecessary government spending. I pay property taxes to ensure Henry Co. has the necessary funding to do their job. I’m not paying my taxes to put your Josh into private school. If you want him there, then pay for it.
Vouchers = Welfare.
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
10:23 am
Adam: “LWM: maybe he would argue that, but even he would agree that is belief, not science.”
That’s right, he would have. But he also held that science is fundamentally a matter of belief, too. Hence the prominence of DOUBT which he introduces into Western thought. Cogito ergo sum. Haunting the modern scientific thinker at every step is the specter of radical doubt, in other words.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
10:24 am
Southern….so when the left wants to throw money to Welfare you are fine with it. But when we want to spend money to educate our children for a brighter future, you are against it…..I get it now……hahahah
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
10:25 am
I’m almost, but not really at all, sorry that I offended you by coming to a political blog to discuss politics. Crazy.
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
10:28 am
So Co – How are vouchers welfare? If I choose to take the tax money I put into the system to take my child (who thankfully doesn’t exist) and move him to a private school that can educate him better than the local government school how is it welfare? And even so, when did the liberals become against welfare? But the point remains, it is the money that was taken from me, being given back to me to educate my child in the way that I find best for him.
Paul
April 28th, 2011
10:28 am
I’ve asked the same questions here in Texas to advocates of vouchers and home schooling. “How can you make the claims it’s better when those kids are exempted from the Texas standardized tests?” It’s usually a short discussion.
Jay
Thanks for providing the performance data in Wisconsin. It’ll make a great follow-up point.
BTW, I haven’t noticed any school choice/voucher/home schooling ‘our way is better than public schools’ make their case yet. Am I missing something?
RW-(the original)
Response to your ‘jerk’ assertion downstairs. No follow-up necessary.
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:28 am
St. Simons – looks like I may be headed to FL island time…. (possible new job in S. FL in the energy industry -oy)
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
10:29 am
“I’m almost, but not really at all, sorry that I offended you by coming to a political blog to discuss politics. Crazy.”
I’m not offended at all. If you don’t like what’s discussed on here please find another blog.
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
10:30 am
Has anyone answered the questions of whether standardized tests are actually a good way to measure a student’s progress? If so, I’ll go back and read it, but I missed it.
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:31 am
sfd 10:22
Partnership for the Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers (PARCC)
http://www.achieve.org/PARCC
USMC
April 28th, 2011
10:31 am
Yeah, well the Atlanta Public Schools are an utter failure, so the current system is certainly not working, regardless of how much money you throw them.
Did anyone catch this clip of Joe Biden suggesting the Impeachment of the President?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iFeWo7SqnA
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 28th, 2011
10:32 am
so when the left wants to throw money to Welfare you are fine with it. But when we want to spend money to educate our children for a brighter future, you are against it…..I get it now……hahahah
And just like a UGA grad (or non-grad), you can’t read for comprehension.
#1 I never said anything about the left. Don’t ASSume or put words in my mouth. It only reveals exactly what you are.
#2 I never said anything about being pro-welfare. Don’t ASSume or put words in my mouth. It only reveals exactly what you are.
#3 How can you fix your mouth (fingers) to even say “we want to spend money to educate” when there’s been more cutting of the education budget in GA than all the cutting in all the Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street movie series combined?
**the things that qualify as conservative logic nowadays….
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:32 am
(ir)Rational – standardized tests are good. They’re not the only metric, but they’re a big and important one.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
10:33 am
“How are vouchers welfare?….But the point remains, it is the money that was taken from me, being given back to me to educate my child in the way that I find best for him.”
Vouchers could be seen as welfare b/c since you and I can’t dictate where our taxes go, it is also money that was taken from someone else and given to you by the government.
Jonas
April 28th, 2011
10:33 am
When an article brings us specific incidences such as two charter schools were really poorly run the reader knows the article is worthless. Kind of like I got sick on Chinese food so all Chinese food is bad. Or, Joe the plumber is somehow a statistical representation of all hard working middle income folks. Did Jay miss the part about the daily AJC investigation into local public schools?
The best job to have when there is absolutely no local or national leadership is a blog writer. We got the birth certificate but we all await the leadership.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
10:34 am
Southern….you proved my point….THANK YOU!
GeeMac
April 28th, 2011
10:34 am
“BTW, I haven’t noticed any school choice/voucher/home schooling ‘our way is better than public schools’ make their case yet. Am I missing something?”
Paul, head on over to Get Schooled and you will find plenty of that ilk.
(Ir) – I agree with you. The religious debate is off topic, a tactic many of my high school students employ when they don’t know how to contribute to the discussion at hand.
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2011
10:34 am
#1 Move to a better school district
but remember, if in order to do that, you had to rely upon a no-interest variable-rate loan to move into a house in one of those districts for a couple of years, on the promise that its value would increase and allow you to re-fi (or at worst, declare bankruptcy and walk away, figuring at least your kid got a couple of years of a better education)?
well, you caused the Great Recession. Or so I’m told, here, most every day.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 28th, 2011
10:34 am
(ir)Rational
How are vouchers welfare?
The money going into the school system isn’t just YOUR money. You are not the only person paying taxes to fund the school system. If you pay $2000 in property taxes and get a $7000 voucher, where does the other $5k come from? Kevin the goat doesn’t just sh*t that stuff out in real life you know….
And even so, when did the liberals become against welfare?
See #1 and #2 to UGA above…
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
10:35 am
“Has anyone answered the questions of whether standardized tests are actually a good way to measure a student’s progress?”
I’ll say no. Standardized test are a good way to see if students are good at taking a lot of tests.
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:35 am
“Why voucher advocates are allergic to standardized tests”
I’m a voucher advocate. I guess I have natural immunity.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
10:35 am
UGA – you seem to forget, we already ARE paying for your children to be educated.
if you want them to have a PRIVATE education, then you need to pony up the money, yourself
jt-A statist is a man with two perfectly strong legs,however, relies on Uncle Sam on directions and permission for use-JT
April 28th, 2011
10:35 am
If taxes,(stolen money) is diverted to “private” schools(vouchers)………then the “private” school……is no longer “private”.
TRUE private schools and home schools are thriving in America today, and will ultimently bring our youth and future out of an otherwise dark ,indoctrinated , and evil government morass.
The IS a shining city. And it doesn’t allow any stolen tax money to pervert a family or their children’s education.
Dave R.
April 28th, 2011
10:36 am
If you want government money, you have to take the government yoke that goes along with it.
As we used to say growing up, “Tough noogies”.
St Simons - we're on Island time
April 28th, 2011
10:36 am
On the topic of the thread:
“I don’t want to go to school around ‘those people’ ”
“I want you to give the state’s tax money back to me so I can go somewhere else”
“and I want to cut the remaining money for those people’s public education”
“And I don’t want to be held accountable with testing for doing this”
Well, I bet you do. This is shameful. But you have to have shame for this to bother you.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 28th, 2011
10:36 am
UGA: Southern….you proved my point….THANK YOU!
If you were an ice pick, you still wouldn’t have a point.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
10:36 am
USIN….yes we are paying for public schools to fail!
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 28th, 2011
10:36 am
Peadawg @ 10:33
Exactly!!
RW-(the original)
April 28th, 2011
10:37 am
Paul,
You wouldn’t have put the caveat at the bottom of your original comment if you didn’t realize you were wandering off into “jerk” territory and please don’t come to a different thread and pretend I was calling you names elsewhere. No follow-up necessary.
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:37 am
SoCo 10:34 – achooo. I am allergic to discussions of my property taxes….. gives me an awful headache.
TaxPayer
April 28th, 2011
10:38 am
The world was flat until God willed it to be round.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 28th, 2011
10:39 am
jm
Imagine how I feel. I’ve been paying for 8 years. It will be another 4 before my child sets foot in a public school building.
St Simons - we're on Island time
April 28th, 2011
10:40 am
jm – good for you! Surfs up dude!
Your blood pressure will drop 50 points after you pass Hartsfield on I-75 S
RW-(the original)
April 28th, 2011
10:40 am
If you were an ice pick, you still wouldn’t have a point.
Dude!!! I had an icepick shoved clean through my leg in high school and you just made the pain rush right back through that same path all these many years later.
/ I better get to work. These blogs are dangerous this morning
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
10:40 am
“If you want government money, you have to take the government yoke that goes along with it.”
which is why my brother-man was always against vouchers when my nephews were in school
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:41 am
SoCo 10:39 – FYI, the steadily increasing homestead exemption essentially creates a progressive property tax code. Most people don’t pay that much in property taxes. And some pay a lot. Generally like the income tax.
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:41 am
St. Simons – there is excellent surfing in the area….
jt-A statist is a man with two perfectly strong legs,however, relies on Uncle Sam on directions and permission for use-JT
April 28th, 2011
10:41 am
I mean………………………
what kind of moran would worry about a “test” administered by the “state”.
The state is not interested in knowledge.
The state is only interested in obedience.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
10:41 am
UGA – not all public schools are failing – some are actually thriving and producing excellent students
either way, the fact remains – I already AM paying for your child to be educated. if you’re not happy with what’s available to them, then your dime needs to pay for something different, not mine.
md
April 28th, 2011
10:41 am
The system already has vouchers…….and it does favor those that tend to be more well off. It’s called relocating……………..and yes, choices again do come into play.
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
10:43 am
Completely off topic here, pertains to yesterday’s topic, but I can’t resist pointing this out.
He’s failing again. Obama is once again failing to win the debate on a major policy issue with gigantic consequences for the nation.
Churchill was wrong when he said the best argument against Democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter. The best proof of it is right here :
Poll Shows Obama Is Losing the Debt Ceiling Debate
Despite warnings of disaster, Americans oppose raising the debt ceiling by a margin of more than 2 to 1.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2011/04/27/poll-shows-obama-is-losing-the-debt-ceiling-debate
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20056258-503544.html
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
10:43 am
So Co – I wasn’t directing the welfare and liberals comment just at you, so maybe you shouldn’t ASSuME things either. You know, cause it makes stuff out of you and me. But yeah, in general liberals are typically advocates for welfare. And also in general, liberals are against school choice of any kind, and vouchers in particular.
And to address the rest of your comment – I’m not saying the voucher should be more than what I pay in taxes, but the money I give to (or have forcibly taken from me by) the government should follow my (non-existent) child to whichever school I feel could best suit his needs.
Also – love the comment to UGA. I’ll have to use that if you don’t mind.
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:44 am
“There are no more arbiters of truth,” said former White House press secretary Robert Gibbs. “So whatever you can prove factually, somebody else can find something else and point to it with enough ferocity to get people to believe it. We’ve crossed some Rubicon into the unknown.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53856.html#ixzz1KpTKfAgK
ragnar danneskjold
April 28th, 2011
10:44 am
Good morning all. A leftist perspective of “accountability” is to have government administer tests proving that the teacher is teaching what the government thinks ought to be taught.
A conservative knows that “accountability” is allowing each individual to make decisions and accept the consequences of that decision.
The waste – both academic and financial – in our government schools is appalling. That leftists continue to believe that all teaching should conform to government standards is beyond ridicule.
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:45 am
USinUK 10:41 – if you’re paying property taxes on an empty house in the US, you need a realtor…. or you’ve got deep pockets.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
10:46 am
“but the money I give to (or have forcibly taken from me by) the government should follow my (non-existent) child to whichever school I feel could best suit his needs.”
Please let us know how you’re able to dictate where your tax money goes. I’m sure everyone here would interested how you’re able to do that.
md
April 28th, 2011
10:46 am
“Despite warnings of disaster, Americans oppose raising the debt ceiling by a margin of more than 2 to 1. ”
I think the masses are acknowledging a problem, and don’t necessarily understand all the components of said problem.
While the misfits understand there is a problem, yet think the masses are fooled when they shave off a measly 40 billion……………..
Gordon
April 28th, 2011
10:48 am
“either way, the fact remains – I already AM paying for your child to be educated. if you’re not happy with what’s available to them, then your dime needs to pay for something different, not mine.”
The danger of a monopoly…
If what is being provided isn’t good enough, that’s your problem. You still have to pay for it, so it doesn’t really matter to me if you are satisfied with the product or not. Which is why we have a mediocre product…
Mick
April 28th, 2011
10:48 am
I went to catholic school in my youth – no vouchers back then and nobody was complaining about it. Today, these repubs want to destroy the american way of life I used to know, unions, public schools, medicare, social security, but tax cuts for the millionaires and billonaires are championed by the wannabes. Who are they going to blame when the middle class finally disintegrates? Democrats.
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
10:49 am
Did I say that I did that Peadawg? I’m pretty sure that is the point of the voucher system, and the way that most government ran schools in Europe treat education money. The money follows the child. The child SHOULDN’T be forced to follow the money.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
10:50 am
Usin….I agree with you somewhat and on the otherhand I dont. See here is what WILL happen under your theory.
The “Evil Rich” will be the only ones that will be able to afford a better education through private institutions. Hince the wealthy kids will get the better educations which will allow them to attain higher paying jobs. Thus the gap grows between the wealthy and poverty.
This means that the left will be screaming for more money to be funneled to the lower class through our tax dollars. Thus the cycle continues.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
10:50 am
“A leftist perspective of “accountability” is to have government administer tests proving that the teacher is teaching what the government thinks ought to be taught.”
hrm.
what’s the phrase I’m trying to think of? Mo Mild Left Mehind?
Slow Slild Left Sleehind?
No, I’ve got it – NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND … that’s right … a Republican initiative whose foundation is standardized testing …
funny, that
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 28th, 2011
10:50 am
RW
My bad..
jm
I need to move to one of those pay less areas. As small as my exemption was, I did miss it when Sonny took it away. Oh well, less subsidy for me means more for Kia.
Finn McCool
April 28th, 2011
10:50 am
This is a PERFECT example of why voting Republican is not in your best interest if you are not wealthy. Wealthy kids using tax-payer funding to go to private schools? Legislating the use of public funds to benefit their kids because they don’t want to open their checkbooks.
Ohhhh, give those wealthy people another tax break, fer cryin’ out loud. Times is tuff for da Man.
Middle class and working class Republican voters are the biggest bunch a’ pansyies this nation has ever seen.
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
10:50 am
Great point Gordon.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
10:51 am
Gordon – if you think education is a monopoly, you really need to go back and reread the definition
Paul
April 28th, 2011
10:51 am
RW-(the original)
I think I see your point. Calling out those who have ‘jerk’ views of life is ‘wandering into ‘jerk territory.”
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
10:52 am
jm – who says it’s empty?
USMC
April 28th, 2011
10:52 am
“Poll Shows Obama Is Losing the Debt Ceiling Debate”
I suppose his “I was against it before I was for it” lends for a weak stance.
Obama Concedes Senate Vote Against Raising Debt Limit Was ‘Political’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjnN_J6wPmk
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
10:52 am
Finn…..hahahaha that is hilarious…..you are right lets take funding away from the middle and lower class to go to private schools so that the only ones that can afford to go the private schools are the wealthy. Ready my previous post as well.
You are cutting off your nose to spite your face and you dont even know it.
HILARIOUS!
Normal
April 28th, 2011
10:52 am
The “Right” doesn’t want education for the masses. They want the masses to wear gray jumpsuits and work caps. They want us to go to our 2.00 an hour job for 12 hours a day. They want us to bow and swear fealty to their Corporate Gods. That way, they wouldn’t need China any more. Chairman’s Koch will be proud…
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 28th, 2011
10:53 am
(ir)Rational
No problem. I read your comment out of context then. My appologies. You can use that comment. I’ve applied for the trademark, but haven’t gotten an approval yet. Also, I can see your point on the voucher, but I don’t think the government should be involved in that at all.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
10:53 am
“Did I say that I did that Peadawg?”
No but you asked how do vouchers = welfare. Unless you can dictate where your tax dollars go(which you can’t) then it IS another form of welfare.
md
April 28th, 2011
10:53 am
“Oh well, less subsidy for me means more for Kia.”
Yep, it would be much better if kia was in MS or LA or ……..
Mick
April 28th, 2011
10:54 am
ragnar@10:44
You have it completely backwards as usual, the repubs and bush in particular, are the ones that have pushed the testing regime and state curriculum guidelines. Before jeb and george, most states were satisfied to use the SAT, a reliable and valid test. Now, we have testing companies for profit, whose tests are not valid and reliable because they change them year after year…
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
10:54 am
USinUK – Government education is basically a monopoly. There is no real accountability, no real competition, or at least what is there isn’t competing for the same money, and I have no choice but to spend my money there. Seems like a monopoly to me. Now, I do recognize that there are other types of schools out there, but without a voucher system or school choice system of some kind, where my money follows my child, then there is no incentive for the government school to better itself.
Paul
April 28th, 2011
10:54 am
At the risk of wandering back into jerk territory,
I realize a few of our “FAIR” folks aren’t here (yet), but if they are going to be consistent in ‘the few are supporting the many with taxes and they don’t get nearly the return on their stolen money that the nonincometaxpayers get’
It seems to me, applying their philosophy to this education thing, if they have, say three kids, shouldn’t they pay three times the tax rate to support children as a person with one kid, and a person with no kids pays nada?
Seems fair/equitable, after all -
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
10:55 am
UGA – just in case no one else points this out to you, your comment to p’dawg and your 10:50 positively REEK of “entitlement”
everyone is entitled to an education – not everyone is entitled to go to a private school
John Birch
April 28th, 2011
10:55 am
Tax dollars can go whereever the peeps or their elected reps want them to go. Are vouchers the best use of tax dollars? Probably not, but they are a lot better than the billions we are wasting in Obama’s war in that quagmire, Afghanistan.
RGB
April 28th, 2011
10:55 am
I read your piece but nowhere did I find where you offered the explanation(s) given by those opposed to standardized testing.
I suppose it could be that they just don’t want to be measured or assessed (similar to public school teachers who don’t want their performance tested), or it could be that they have a valid reason and you just don’t want to report it. No reasonable voucher proponent wants rapists running schools or wants miscreants unfairly benefiting from taxpayer dollars. Your piece suggests that the creeps you describe typify voucher proponents. I’ll be that’s just not true.
If I wrote a column I would minimally offer to my readers the reason why these folks resist testing. Then, if I disagreed with the reason, I would explain why. You failed to do this. That makes me reflexively want to disagree with you because I think you are hiding something exculpatory.
In summary, you’ve done another incomplete job. And that is my assessment of your work.
RGB
April 28th, 2011
10:58 am
“bet”
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
10:58 am
Wow, thanks for the link to the Robert Gibbs.comment, jm. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying here the last couple of days. What we’re seeing is literally a hollowing out, undermining of symbolic authority as such, which means the increasing inability to close a debate through reference to a generally accepted authority (in the case of the birther spectacle, the lack of trust in basic official documentation). Which signals a very dangerous cultural shift. So Gibbs is exactly right.
jm
April 28th, 2011
10:58 am
USinUK 10:52 – ah. then who’s paying the taxes? The renter or the owner?….. that funny fungible money problem….
md
April 28th, 2011
10:59 am
“It seems to me, applying their philosophy to this education thing, if they have, say three kids, shouldn’t they pay three times the tax rate to support children as a person with one kid, and a person with no kids pays nada?”
Sounds like a plan………after all, we do choose how many kids we have……….works for me.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
10:59 am
(ir) – ‘There is no real accountability, no real competition, or at least what is there isn’t competing for the same money, and I have no choice but to spend my money there.’
same thing could be said of our military.
as far as accountability – I don’t think anyone is arguing that there shouldn’t be accountability / better accountability, etc — how can that be done without testing?
carlosgvv
April 28th, 2011
10:59 am
Pedawg
So you agree that God can neither be proved or disproved. And your decision is to proceed full speed ahead with the blind faith of an eight year old and believe there really is a “God of love” who is looking out for you. You are unable to see this makes as much sense as believing in Santa Claus and The Tooth Fairy. And you wonder why I call you delusional?
jm
April 28th, 2011
11:00 am
SoCo 10:50 – just live in a cheap house. We pay 300% more in property taxes on our current house as we did on my wife’s old house, even though it’s only worth 50% more
retired early
April 28th, 2011
11:01 am
The GOP has 3 longterm goals and they represent the 3 pillars of the Liberal Left. Crush labor unions including civil servants, Defund the network of social programs including Social Security, Medicare and regulatory arms of government like the EPA… and eliminate the Public School system.
The way they accomplish their goals is to cut taxes for the wealthy, thus rewarding their loyalty and financial backing…”starving the beast”. Then they use the budget deficit to justify their attempts to “defund” the programs they target.
When Bush began his 2rd term, he immediately announced his desire to “privatize” SS. Now, what does Ryans Budget attempt to do…change Medicare to a “voucher” program.
The GOP is nothing but the talking head for business. They do “nothing” for the individuals.
Let me quote a couple of well respected Republicans.
Grover Norquest Quote about Stalin…”First, we want to remove liberal personnel from the political process. Then we want to capture those positions of power and influence for conservatives. Stalin taught the importance of this principle. He was running the personnel department, while Trotsky was out fighting the White Army. When push came to shove for control of the Soviet Union, Stalin won. His people were in place and Trotsky’s were not…With this principle in mind, conservatives must do all they can to make sure they get jobs in Washington”.
Jerry Faldwell quote about “reaching for the pillars” speaking at the funeral of Larry McDonald who was Chairman of the John Birch Society….”People like us are reaching for the pillars of society. We have had enough…just like Sampson in the Bible…even if we have to die ourselves, we are bringing that temple down”.
We constantly read accusations that Liberals are Communist, Marxist, et. al. when in fact it is the Extreme Right that is borrowing the playbook from history’s ultimate hardliners, Stalin and Mao.
The GOP has never been friend of the common man…nor Democracy. The sooner the American people figure this out…the sooner we can take back our country for the good of us “all”…not just for their chosen few.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:02 am
USIN….but you think everyone is entitled to healthcare and food right? Why limit education off that list?
carlosgvv
April 28th, 2011
11:03 am
(ir)rational – Adam
Didn’t anyone ever tell you that ignoring something that makes you uncomfortable will NOT make it go away?
TaxPayer
April 28th, 2011
11:04 am
So, basically, the Republicans are arguing for vouchers because that will give parents the option to send their children to private schools that will not provide their children with a better education, will cost more than public school, and could even be run by criminals including rapists, stalkers, etc.
jm
April 28th, 2011
11:05 am
Reid is just not very bright.
He was proud of a housing bubble, and now he wants to win the solar power bubble race? Hmmm..
Harry Reid: Don’t let China beat us
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53866.html
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
11:05 am
““It seems to me, applying their philosophy to this education thing, if they have, say three kids, shouldn’t they pay three times the tax rate to support children as a person with one kid, and a person with no kids pays nada?”” – Great idea!
carlos, again, prove he doesn’t exist then we’ll talk about me being delusional. Me believing in something doesn’t make me delusional. As for your, “You are unable to see this makes as much sense as believing in Santa Claus and The Tooth Fairy.” There’s proof that Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy don’t exist so that’s apples and oranges. Nice try though.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 28th, 2011
11:06 am
Dollar drops after Bernanke remarks, lower GDP, higher unemployment claims.
———
Doesn’t matter to the Idiot Messiah, since his parasite base don’t have any dollars.
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
11:07 am
USinUK – How does the testing provide accountability at all? As I pointed out in my earlier posts, all testing does is allow the teachers to make people think they’re doing a better job by only teaching the test. Add real competition to the schools and then we’ll see the school system improve. Also, incentive based pay for teachers, but don’t make the incentives be based solely off a standardized test, add in some other measure of how the students are doing. If you want it to be off the test, then compare the same student’s test this year to the one from last year. If they did remarkably better then the teacher must have done a good job by at least teaching them the test/to take the test better. But there needs to be some way to improve schools over what they are now. Obviously, throwing more money at them is not the solution. Maybe giving the teachers the incentive that if they don’t improve the money will go away will help?
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
11:08 am
RGB: “If I wrote a column I would minimally offer to my readers the reason why these folks resist testing.”
But what if the people in question either 1) have no well articulated position as to why the oppose them, or 2) have such a position, but choose not to articulate it in public for strategic political reasons (namely, because it would reveal the radicalism of their position and thus provoke resistance)? In that case, the columnist has little choice but to simply point out the lack of an apparent position on an issue. So your comment reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of things on your part.
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
11:09 am
carlos – what am I ignoring? Unless it is a debate on God/religion, it is nothing intentionally.
jm
April 28th, 2011
11:09 am
You know. Obama knew about the deficit ceiling when he came into office. Maybe he shoulda thought about that when coming to terms on budgets and taxes the last two years.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
11:10 am
” all testing does is allow the teachers to make people think they’re doing a better job by only teaching the test.”
Bingo was his name-o.
jm
April 28th, 2011
11:11 am
Reid is pathetic. Below, a voice of reason….
“Let me get this straight – after failing to even craft or pass a budget last year, now Senate Democrats, who won’t take up the president’s budget, are turning to what House Republicans drafted,” said Sen. Orrin Hatch, the top Republican on the Senate Finance Committee. “This is a sad testimony to how completely incapable they are of putting forward a credible and concrete plan to tackle our nation’s debt. If this is where Senate Democrats want to go, then we ought to have all the budget proposals voted on, including the ultra-left progressive caucus budget with its stratospheric tax hikes and severe defense cuts.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53824_Page2.html#ixzz1KpZwmI6R
Adam
April 28th, 2011
11:11 am
Jonas: so education sucks all around? How is that an argument for vouchers?
Ragnar: its the accepting consequences part I notice many conservatives have a problem with…
jm
April 28th, 2011
11:12 am
Reid wants to propose the Ryan plan in the Senate. Don’t worry Dems, its just gamesmanship.
And a spokesman for Minority Leader Mitch McConnell was even more skeptical of Reid’s announcement Wednesday.
“They didn’t pass one last year with 60 Democrat Senators, so I guess it’s not a surprise that he’s relying on a House Republican to do the work for them,” said McConnell spokesman Don Stewart.
Reid did not specify an exact time line for when he plans to hold the vote on the Ryan budget, but noted that he has a lot to juggle on the Senate calendar, with a small business bill still pending, the Patriot Act needing to be renewed and several judicial confirmations remaining on the docket.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53824_Page2.html#ixzz1KpaBzynK
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
11:13 am
Doesn’t matter to the Idiot Messiah, since his parasite base don’t have any dollars.
Pfttt . ..
By the way, that means Goldman Sachs is the biggest parasite of all, right?
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 28th, 2011
11:14 am
If the test is testing what’s in the approved curriculum, then teachers damn well better be teaching to the test. Get a grip, test-o-phobes.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:14 am
Left wing….nice spin….always willing to run from the truth for a good spin….great job.
John Birch
April 28th, 2011
11:15 am
Taxpayer et al – I believe the AJC ran a piece just yesterday on a teaccher running nude through a public ELEMENTARY school. There have been several cases jus this year of public school molestations, statutory rapes etc. Devoiant behavior is probably more prevalent in public schools, a point Jay chose not to research or comment on, he just cites two examples in private schools.
TaxPayer
April 28th, 2011
11:17 am
including the ultra-left progressive caucus budget with its stratospheric tax hikes and severe defense cuts.”
hyperbolate – hyperventilated hyperbole, a typical con ploy to evoke an emotional irrational response in their less educated base.
Mighty Righty
April 28th, 2011
11:18 am
Seems to me a real test would be to compare test scores of students who used vouchers to transfer to new schools to their performance at their old school. This would be a real test to see if the change helped.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:18 am
UGA – USIN….but you think everyone is entitled to healthcare and food right? Why limit education off that list?
what part of “everyone is entitled to an education” eludes you?
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
11:18 am
“If the test is testing what’s in the approved curriculum, then teachers damn well better be teaching to the test. Get a grip, test-o-phobes.”
So what if the student understands the material and does the homework just fine, but is a bad test taker? What do the test prove then?
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 28th, 2011
11:18 am
I was referring to your Idiot Messiah’s parasite base. I said nothing of his fatcat base.
BTW, it’s looking like Wall Street is shifting their contributions away from the socialist-in-chief Obozo.
TaxPayer
April 28th, 2011
11:19 am
Birch,
Not to worry for apparently that nude teacher can simply start up his/her own private school and avoid all scrutiny. I do believe Jay vouched for that in his post.
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2011
11:19 am
below, a voice of reason
jm, remember how ol’ Orrin filibustered long and into the night to fight those irresponsible tax cuts, back in the day? How he fought tirelessly to ensure that Medicare Part D was properly funded, and to ensure that negotiated Rx prices were part of the mix?
neither can I.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 28th, 2011
11:20 am
“bad test taker” is a euphemism for “moron”
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
11:21 am
LBB – The tests don’t cover the entire curriculum. At least they didn’t when I was in school. I’m not sure it even exists anymore, but I think the perfect example is/was the Georgia High School Graduation Test. You had to take the test sometime in April (I believe) of your junior year of high school. So, basically, I learned everything I needed to know to graduate by a month or so before I finished my junior year of high school. I can remember my 11th grade history class that year, that by school mandate, was split into two sections. The first half of the semester we went “as far as we could” in the history we were supposed to be learning, the second half, we simply prepared for the graduation test. After the test, we did nothing.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:21 am
(ir) – yep, nothing will help failing schools quite like removing their funding.
I’m not saying that testing is perfect – in fact, I totally agree with you about teaching to the test – and that’s not jsut the “bad” teachers that do that, it’s all teachers as the edict flows down from the senior administrators for the county will demand it.
which begs the question – how do you measure success?
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
11:21 am
House lawmakers voted overwhelmingly last night to strip police officers, teachers, and other municipal employees of most of their rights to bargain over health care, saying the change would save millions of dollars for financially strapped cities and towns.
The 111-to-42 vote followed tougher measures to broadly eliminate collective bargaining rights for public employees in Ohio, Wisconsin, and other states. But unlike those efforts, the push in Massachusetts was led by Democrats who have traditionally stood with labor to oppose any reduction in workers’ rights.
Unions fought hard to stop the bill, launching a radio ad that assailed the plan and warning legislators that if they voted for the measure, they could lose their union backing in the next election. After the vote, labor leaders accused House Speaker Robert A. DeLeo and other Democrats of turning their backs on public employees.
Ads by Google
Will this be Jay’s next blog? NOT!
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:21 am
Usin….it doesnt “elude” me at all. However the fact that the left places their emphasis on food and healthcare for the lower class above a higher education for ALL youth…..SPEAKS VOLUMES!!!
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
11:22 am
““bad test taker” is a euphemism for “moron”” – Are you a bad test taker?
Geeze…in no way shape or form does that comment make any sense.
Adam
April 28th, 2011
11:22 am
Carlosgv: I do not see a point in talking about the science of god except for what I said. I also see no reason to attack someone for having a faith, unless that faith leads to illogical and dangerous thinking and actions. Then, your core belief is not something that should be held onto.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:23 am
Peadawg…I agree with you. Just another moronic comment from the left. Are you surprised?
Mick
April 28th, 2011
11:24 am
**“bad test taker” is a euphemism for “moron”**
That’s quite incorrect, see einstein or thomas edison. Taking tests is only one way of measuring learning…
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
11:24 am
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:21 am
(ir) – yep, nothing will help failing schools quite like removing their funding.
I’m not saying that testing is perfect – in fact, I totally agree with you about teaching to the test – and that’s not jsut the “bad” teachers that do that, it’s all teachers as the edict flows down from the senior administrators for the county will demand it.
which begs the question – how do you measure success?
I measure success by someone who can post all day while at work.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:25 am
UGA – “However the fact that the left places their emphasis on food and healthcare for the lower class above a higher education for ALL youth…..SPEAKS VOLUMES!!!”
the only thing that’s speaking volumes is the voice in your head.
both the left and the right value providing an education to our children. The difference is how it’s provided. you want me to pay for your private school and I don’t. it’s just that simple.
jm
April 28th, 2011
11:25 am
LWM – by the way, there was a somewhat opposing view: that the state of HI essentially stoked the issue by saying it was going to find his birth certificate and release it, and then not doing so. That article is on politico as well. I think both are accurate.
Adam
April 28th, 2011
11:26 am
UGA: I hate to break it to you, but that moronic comment came from LBB, a consistent right singer ad Obama hater
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:26 am
“I measure success by someone who can post all day while at work.”
I love how people resort to that comment when they have nothing to say.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:26 am
USin….you want me to pay for your food and healthcare……
Would you agree that the best way to get a class of people out of poverty is through education?
Isnt the left against monopolies and for competition?
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:26 am
next thing, you’re going to say “yeeerrrr in Eeeeengland, why don’t you talk on one of THEEEIIIIIRRRR blogs”
oy.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
11:27 am
“you want me to pay for your private school and I don’t.”
Amen!
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
11:27 am
I believe I made my point.
Mighty Righty
April 28th, 2011
11:27 am
Let’s face it. Our education system is broken. I don’t know if it is our teachers, the student’s parents, the Boards of Education, the U.S. Department of Education, Unions or all of the above. Focusing for or against vouchers will not fix it and as far as I can tell no liberal or conservative has an answer. If it were up to me, I would bulldoze the whole thing, fire everybody amd start over.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:27 am
UGA – and, as i said earlier, there is competition. just because you can’t afford to send all your kids to Pius doesn’t mean that I should have to pay for them to go there.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:28 am
poisson – see SoCo’s comment to UGA earlier
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:28 am
USin…what if the costs to attend a private school were the same as a public school. Then what would you think?
TaxPayer
April 28th, 2011
11:29 am
Who needs proof via test scores that an aeronautical engineer understands fracture mechanics or a civil engineer understands yield strength or buckling or vibrations. After all, that’s why we have the real world out there — to put them to the test in practice.
I still enjoy watching that video even after seeing it numerous times.
md
April 28th, 2011
11:29 am
“But unlike those efforts, the push in Massachusetts was led by Democrats who have traditionally stood with labor to oppose any reduction in workers’ rights.”
I’d hazard a guess that the un-utopian outcome of their hc system had something to do with it. Many of the projections prior to passage are higher. Even the number of emergency room visits increased once the plan was implemented…….seems folks don’t like the idea of giving up the convenience store medical treatment…………….and now they also have a shiny new card to present.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
11:31 am
“what if the costs to attend a private school were the same as a public school.”
If my aunt had a d*k she’d be my uncle. Good luck finding a private school that costs the same as a public school. That scenario doesn’t even exist.
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
11:31 am
USinUK – I don’t know how to measure the success of a school, but there is plenty of evidence for the failures of the schools. I definitely know that the good teachers and the bad only teach the test. The best teacher I had in high school spent the last month before the test teaching it, but after it was over, she went back to teaching the same way she had before. She made English be one of the only classes I was prepared for when I started college. Oh, I went to a really bad high school. I did what I could to improve my situation, by doing dual enrollment with a nearby college, but my high school didn’t prepare me for anything other than working at the mill that was across the river from it.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:31 am
UGA — and … and … and … what if Rainbows were made of Marshmellows! and what if highways were made of ice cream! and what if …
criminey – we could play that game all day – the costs aren’t the same.
I DO think that parents should be able to send their kid to whatever public school is in their county – not just be limited to the ones in their school district.
jm
April 28th, 2011
11:32 am
hmmmm
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/27/carville.birther/index.html
With these bids duly reviewed and the bluffs factored in, even Ms. Nippy would surely conclude that these facts “trump the trick.”
So, in the words of Jack Cafferty, “Here’s my question to you:” What motivated the White House to become a part of the spectacle at this stage in the game? Was the posting of the birth certificate an intentional move to bolster the political standing of Donald Trump? This is one Democrat that hopes it was, as it would demonstrate a political move of great sophistication and overall strategic brilliance.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of James Carville.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:32 am
USIN….nice intelligent response….I would expect no less. Ok, lets try this one more time. Do you know on average how much it cost per student to attend a public school?
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:33 am
p’dawg – 11:31 –
dammit man, you beat me to the punch (and did it in a much pithier way)
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:33 am
Usin….before you post your next comment. You may want to do some research. I think you will be surprised.
md
April 28th, 2011
11:33 am
“I DO think that parents should be able to send their kid to whatever public school is in their county – not just be limited to the ones in their school district.”
And many systems are set up that way…….transportation then becomes the deciding factor, as many parents will not take the child where they want the child to be.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:34 am
peadawg…same question to you. What does it cost per student to attend a public school. What does it cost the government…..tax payer?
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:35 am
tick tock tick tock tick tock…..
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
11:36 am
TaxPayer – those tests are different. You don’t take your professional engineer’s test directly after college, or your architectural registration test. You do an internship first, where you do learn by hands-on experience and real world trial and error (all the while having a licensed professional looking over your shoulder catching the errors.) And before you just pick out the first sentence in this post, yeah, they really are different. I wasn’t taught the tests I’ll have to take starting this summer to become a licensed architect in college. I was taught how to be an architect (sorta), and have since spent 3 years working in the real world adding to that knowledge and studying the things I’ll have to know to pass the test. Which coincidentally, are most of the things I’ll have to know to be an architect.
jm
April 28th, 2011
11:36 am
China is behaving like the cop in the final act of the remake of “The Thomas Crown Affair”: just start arresting everyone….
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/opinion/28kristof.html?_r=1
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
11:36 am
“What does it cost per student to attend a public school.”
Are you talking about what the parents pay out of pocket or what the gov’t pays for? I’d be shocked if a parent has to pay $400+/month out of pocket for public school.
jm
April 28th, 2011
11:37 am
First, the government is arresting not only dissidents and Christians but also their family members and even their lawyers. Second, after a long period in which police would torture working-class prisoners but usually not intellectuals, the authorities are again brutalizing white-collar dissidents.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
11:38 am
Off to lunch…y’all be good, ya hear!
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:38 am
Peadawg….READ MY POST! How much does it cost the governmnet/taxpayer to send a student to public schools?
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:38 am
UGA – it depends who you ask – I’ve seen estimates as low as $3k and as high as $10k – depends on the bias of the person writing the report.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:39 am
md – yep – no system is perfect -
(ir)Rational
April 28th, 2011
11:39 am
Awww, UGA, nobody is playing with you. Off to do more work, y’all have fun not agreeing on anything, or being surprised at who you agree with.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:40 am
USin….the government average in 2008 is $25k per student. Working with Gwinnett County Schools, they claim it to be between $20k and $23k.
Now how much does it cost annually to attend GAC? or St. Pius.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:41 am
UGA – you seem to forget, the COST of the student isn’t necessarily what’s PAID by the parent. in other words, “your money” isn’t the only money that funds your child. federal money goes in, state money goes in, etc.
and, lastly, tuition is only part of the cost of private eduction – things like books aren’t included, neither are uniforms, etc. it adds up.
jm
April 28th, 2011
11:43 am
Jay, a Daniels update below. I hope Daniels runs. I’m seriously sad about the spotlight they may be put under given the way politics works nowadays…. hopefully he gets kid glove treatment from the Media the way Obama did, his primary opponents may be a different matter (I don’t see the Obama campaign making an issue out of this stuff)….
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/265671/daniels-president-katrina-trinko
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:43 am
UGA – 25K??
sorry, bub, I want to see a link to support that
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
11:43 am
hell, even CATO didn’t even claim half that
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
11:45 am
USin…so if they were equal would you still have a problem with the funding?
TaxPayer
April 28th, 2011
11:47 am
Well,
irrational, a test is a test is a test and it’s purpose should be to assess the student’s grasp of the particular subject. I had to pass exams in school in strength of materials, statics, dynamics, fracture mechanics, fatigue, elasticity, vibrations, etc., before I was even given the chance to move on to the real world. Then again, that was in a public school years ago. Perhaps things have changed.
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
11:49 am
In Pennsylvania, Republican legislators are pushing through a school vouchers bill that would divert increasingly scarce state education dollars to private and parochial schools.- Jay
Scare state education dollars? Really jay? Is this part of your comedy routine today? The U.S. spends more now on education than it ever has and spends more pupil than the overwhelming majority of countries on earth. And your response is to attack vouchers for this pathetic state of public education? Man that’s weak.
Voucher Advocate
April 28th, 2011
11:56 am
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaachoooooooo. Sta (snif) dard (sniffle) ided (aaa) dests (aaaa) are just (aaaaaaaaa) awful…. (choooooooooooo).
Better.
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
11:58 am
Theoretically, the marvels of the free market were supposed to run places such as “Alex’s Academics of Excellence” out of business. Instead, government was forced to intervene, because what happens in theory and what happens in reality are often two different things. But in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, loyalty to theory is once again carrying the day.-JB
WOW! Never thought I would see the day when someone actually claims that public education is superior to a private school education. Wayyyyyyy too funny! I think those parents need to take their kids out of Marist and drop them into the Atlanta Public School system which is being threatened with losing its accreditation if you go by Jay’s logic.
And take the kids out of westminster and drop them into that superior school system that Clayton County runs. Oops. Wait a minute. Didn’t Clayton lose its accreditation briefly because of the clown circus going on down there?
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
11:59 am
jm: “by the way, there was a somewhat opposing view: that the state of HI essentially stoked the issue by saying it was going to find his birth certificate and release it, and then not doing so. That article is on politico as well. I think both are accurate.”
That may be true, but even so the point remains that the document — simply by the fact of its existence — should close the argument. Period. The fact that it hasn’t reveals an erosion in the legitimacy of institutions (in this case the government itself) that’s very troubling.
jm
April 28th, 2011
12:01 pm
LWM – agree.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 28th, 2011
12:03 pm
Maybe Jay can post about a chart showing how much we spend on education versus the countries that are kicking our butts. ‘Course, that won’t happen since it would put the lie to the libbtards claim that all our schools need is more “investment”.
What our schools need is less government meddling and the destruction of the teachers unions.
Mick
April 28th, 2011
12:03 pm
doom
Don’t cherry pick your private schools, there are many so called christian schools that don’t have certified teachers and would absolutely score lower than public schools on standardized tests. For every great private school there is a public school just as good, if not better..
USMC
April 28th, 2011
12:04 pm
I didn’t vote for either Deal or Reed, but I have to admit I am increasingly impressed with both; especially Kasim Reed:
Deal & Reed meet with Atlanta School Board
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/188796/3/DOWNTOWN-Deal-meets-with-Atlanta-School-Board
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 28th, 2011
12:05 pm
Democrats suck at running education. Obozo’s election is all the proof you need.
TaxPayer
April 28th, 2011
12:05 pm
What our schools need is less government meddling and the destruction of the teachers unions.
And what makes you so special is that you actually provide charts, etc., to back up your claims. hehehe
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
12:06 pm
Taxpayer….I can show charts where Union states are losing jobs and revenue. But I am sure you alreday knew that.
Mick
April 28th, 2011
12:06 pm
lbb
Gee, I thought you guys were all about personal responsiblity? The biggest obstacle to failing schools are disintersted parents and their children who are way too enamored of our entertainment culture. The education is out there, it is up to the students to access it and take responsiblity for their performance…
Jefferson
April 28th, 2011
12:08 pm
The same neocons that want a free ride to private schools would hide their parent’s assets to get them into a nursing home paid by medicare.
TaxPayer
April 28th, 2011
12:08 pm
I have yet to find a decent public school that does even a half-arse job of adequately teaching creationism. I ask you, given that, how am I supposed to have faith in our public school system.
GeeMac
April 28th, 2011
12:08 pm
UGA1999 – How much per student? Depends on the student. Gifted? Learning disabled? Non-English speaking? Non-verbal? Severely physically and mentally handicapped? Low SES? All of the above?
You can’t get an average because it depends on what type of students and how many, thus a variance from system to system and school to school. For an average student not receiving additional services and no free lunch, it is probably in the 8k/year range.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
12:09 pm
Mick….Wow I almost agree with everything you said. However how can you tell a third grader that it is up to him/her to take responsiblity for their performance when all they are getting is an education to pass test and not prepare them for the real world.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 28th, 2011
12:10 pm
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
11:22 am
““bad test taker” is a euphemism for “moron”” – Are you a bad test taker?
Geeze…in no way shape or form does that comment make any sense.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
11:31 am
“what if the costs to attend a private school were the same as a public school.”
If my aunt had a d*k she’d be my uncle. Good luck finding a private school that costs the same as a public school. That scenario doesn’t even exist.
Damn Pea, whatever you’ve been eating for breakfast…. Pass me some of that sh*t!!!!!
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
12:10 pm
GeeMac….please see previous posts about the actual number. It is there and it is verified. Shocking but true.
TaxPayer
April 28th, 2011
12:11 pm
I can show charts where Union states are losing jobs and revenue.
Georgia’s unemployment rate is higher than the national average.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
12:12 pm
GeeMac….but hey just for a minute lets use your $8k number. Would you be in favor of the government supplying each family with a voucher for $666 ($8k/12) each month that they could use on a private school if they wish?
Finn McCool
April 28th, 2011
12:14 pm
Government education is basically a monopoly.
Conservatives DO NOT LIKE TO WORK! Why do you think they are always howling for a handout in the form of tax breaks?
Lazy, no good welfare kings. That’s why they howl about poor people getting welfare – the welfare pool is finite and they are competing for the same funds !
Hundreds of thousands of kids get a good education every year, but there are problems — so let’s throw the baby out with the bath water.
The same conservative mantra on anything that’s “hard” or “needs work”.
Medicare has problems but millions of seniors are alive today and in good health because of it – so let’s throw the baby out with the bath water.
Social Security has problems but millions of seniors are able to live above the poverty line because of it. Ah hell, it has problems, let’s throw the baby out with the bath water.
See the pattern? Liberals know things aren’t perfect but are willing to work to fix them. Conservatives see the problems and want nothing to do with the hard work that is involved in fixing it.
No, they would rather gut it and mull over a plan for a decade or two. Conservatives DO NOT LIKE TO WORK!
Mick
April 28th, 2011
12:18 pm
uga
Third grade education is very different than high school, that is where the burden shifts more to the student. In third grade, parents are the key to making sure that their children are learning and making sure that the teacher is on task. State guidelines or curriculums for elementary school progression are mostly non-contoversial, however, high stakes testing for a third grader seems to be a bit unfair. I know I didn’t have the equivalent of a board exam in third grade, sister rose knew where I stood…
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
12:18 pm
Finn….you really should research the demographics regarding the right versus the left when you say that conservatives dont like to work. You guys just throw up lies and hope the stick.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
12:20 pm
Mick….again I am not totally disagreeing with you. I am just for options. If an education costs $1 for a public education and it costs $1 for a private education (hypothetical of course). I do not see why the left is fighting the voucher program. Competition and high education is better for us all.
Paulo977
April 28th, 2011
12:22 pm
CUT THE CRAP ABOUT STANDARDIZED TESTING AND HOW IT REVEALS ACADEMIC EXCELLENCE…
http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/edweek/staiv.htm
Mick
April 28th, 2011
12:25 pm
uga
I don’t want my tax money to go to a christian, muslim or hebrew school nor some fly by night charter scam..enough said…
Rightwing Troll
April 28th, 2011
12:25 pm
“Democrats suck at running education.”
At least they try, as opposed to Science and knowledge hating Flat Earthers like Tea Tards…
Finn McCool
April 28th, 2011
12:25 pm
Government education is basically a monopoly
Finn >> Bangs head on desk
Umm, yeah, it’s a government institution. There is only supposed to be one and the word monopoly doesn’t really apply, does it???
You want two FBI’s? How about two EPA’s? You want a couple of Federal Reserve’s?
Where do these people come from?
Fly-On-The-Wall
April 28th, 2011
12:25 pm
I have to really wonder if schools are failing as bad as Republicans say they are or is this another of their usual tactics of – ‘if I say it enought times then that makes it true’. ?? I know some schools do have problems but can that be applied across the board as many conservatives do?
Finn McCool
April 28th, 2011
12:27 pm
No, UGA, it’s always the conservatives who move in and take over this blog between 8am and 6pm.
The liberals are working.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
12:28 pm
“please see previous posts about the actual number. It is there and it is verified”
now, granted, I had to step away for a few, so I may have missed it …
did you post a link that backed up your $25K/yr stat?
RB from Gwinnett
April 28th, 2011
12:28 pm
My child took the CRCT’s this week. I told the kid to walk into class and tell the teacher it would cost $50 for the kid to ace it. The test is a joke and the kid doesn’t benefit in any way by doing better on it. The teacher, however, has her whole career riding on that score. As does the school administration. So the get all the kids worked up over these tests so the school looks good and the kids never even see their own scores.
Maybe I should have made it $100…
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
12:29 pm
Finn – 12:25 – education is a monopoly but evidently defense isn’t
oy.
AmVet
April 28th, 2011
12:29 pm
Afternoon, Bookmaniacs.
Don’t have much to add to this topic, other than, please stay awake during high school or you may end up thinking that the Garden of Eden was a fact and climate change is a myth.
“A word to the wise ain’t necessary – it’s the stupid ones who need the advice.” – Bill Cosby
“Electricity is really just organized lightning.” – George Carlin
“I always wanted to be somebody, but now I realize I should have been more specific.” – Lily Tomlin
larry
April 28th, 2011
12:29 pm
I don’t want my tax money to go to a christian, muslim or hebrew school nor some fly by night charter scam..enough said…
Agreed, plus what about rural areas that do not have private schools. The closest private school to me is almost an hour away.
Finn McCool
April 28th, 2011
12:30 pm
I have to really wonder if schools are failing as bad as Republicans say they are or is this another of their usual tactics of dismantling something and then giving themselves tax cuts.
Fly-On-The-Wall
April 28th, 2011
12:30 pm
UGA1999 – the reason people question your hypothetical case is that if you are going to spend taxpayer money on anything then shouldn’t you be required to measure how efficient those funds are being spent? People want to see public schools measured, why shouldn’t a school that receives vouchers (tax money) also have the same measures applied?
The big phrase at my company is: You can’t change what you don’t measure. If a private school receiving vouchers isn’t measured then how can you be certain they are meeting the standards of educating our youth? How could anyone compare them to another private or public school in an apples-to-apples test?
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
12:31 pm
as for tuition at St. Pius –
Tuition: $11,100
Annual Re-enrollment Fee (non-refundable): $200
Textbook (approximate range): $300-$500
Uniforms (approximately): $150
At the time of acceptance, a $1000 non-refundable deposit is due. $800 of this deposit will be applied towards your tuition. The balance of the tuition can be paid in full or monthly (FACTS Management Company). The FACTS form must be completed through the St. Pius X Business Office.
(from their website)
oh, yeah – a $3000 voucher is gonna do wonders
Finn McCool
April 28th, 2011
12:32 pm
The test is a joke and the kid doesn’t benefit in any way by doing better on it.
So was putting it in place along with NoChildLeftBehind and then not funding it – “oh, no, we got to give ourselves some tax breaks – dontcha know!”
Finn McCool
April 28th, 2011
12:34 pm
Oh, yeah, US, I want competeing armies in the USA.
Can I have one named “McCool Marines”??
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
12:35 pm
LBB: “Democrats suck at running education”
Odd comment. So you’re conceding that Republicans are completely leaving the running of education to Democrats?
Mary Elizabeth
April 28th, 2011
12:35 pm
Thank you very much for this revealing column, today, Jay. I have not read all of the comments but I do want to add these thoughts. Thanks.
There has been a systematic, political effort, for 30 years, by extreme Rightwing ideologues not only to dismantle public schools, but to dismantle – in an out of proportion way – the public arena, overall, for the private market.
Please take a few minutes to view the video, below, which will give details that support my statement above. The Koch Brothers have not been the only leaders in this effort but they have been two. As the video explains, “David Koch ran for VP on the Libertarian ticket for U.S. President/V.P. in 1980 with the platform of:
(1) eliminating corporate taxes
(2) abolishing Social Security
(3) getting rid of public schools.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11H4M-PqAWM
I have previously given reasons for the public to support public schools and I do not support vouchers, for every student, because ultimately that effort would deplete public school resources and create a more divided class system than we presently have. The nation would end up with the very poorest children in public schools. Public monies should be used to support and make better public schools; public monies should not be used as tuition for private schools for those who are already fairly well off financially. The poor cannot afford private schools even with vouchers.
When I was in my mid thirties, I tutored my twin nephews, who were 8, because they were behind in public schools in reading due to premature births and pneumonia for half of kindergarten. They improved a half year in our one week’s summer tutorial together. I asked my brother to take them out of the private church school they had been in that summer and let me help ( I was a certified public school reading specialist). The private school did not have a clue what they were doing in any meaningful way. That fall my nephews went back to public school and graduated H.S. with their peers. They are now college graduates with families of their own. Not all private schools are the equivalent of Marist or Westminster. In fact, most are not, and they should all be held accountable just as public schools are.
Mainly, I want to alert readers to wake up to a national movement to dismantle the public arena. This movement has also heavily infiltered white, Southern conversative churches. Franklin Graham, the son of Billy Graham, was seen this past week on national TV programs almost giving the nod for president to Donald Trump. These particular church goers will not vote against the thinking of their church leaders for fear of losing their support groups and – in the thinking of some – fear of voting against God, Himself. Generallly speaking, they are somehow afraid to think for themselves in political ways because of a generalized fear of doing so. So, they are often vote against their own best interests.
Public schools teach children not for profit. They are not perfect, but they are better than using kids for profit in the private market, which will happen in some cases, if private markets take over the schools. Public servants, who wish to help others, as I did, are the best answer for education. Improve the public schools; don’t dismantle them for private schools.
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
12:36 pm
LBB:
In other words, you’re conceding that the administration of education is a PURELY partisan affair. Very odd. Since when did we decide that? Last I heard we all had an interest in seeing that the education system succeeds. Did something change?
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
12:37 pm
Finn – McCool Marines sound like they should be wearing tie-die uniforms and round john lennon sunglasses
USMC
April 28th, 2011
12:38 pm
I hate to say it, but I like this move.
Push for Pentagon cuts tops Panetta’s agenda:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_PENTAGON_PANETTAS_CHALLENGE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-04-28-03-07-28
Scooter (The Original)
April 28th, 2011
12:39 pm
I agree on the testing Jay and that was what attracted to me to NCLB. But, I feel you are trying to lump all school choice advocates in with the actions of a panel in Pennsylvania. Don’t get me wrong, I would expect nothing better from you.
D.C.’s schools weren’t at the top of national performance and their testing improved under their school choice program. Well at least until the Democrat controlled government defunded the program and the teacher’s unions got rid of the mayor.
USMC
April 28th, 2011
12:40 pm
“Can I have one named “McCool Marines”??”
Well, Finn, we do have McHale’s Navy… so I guess we can go ahead and grant your wish.
Carry on Marine:-)
AmVet
April 28th, 2011
12:41 pm
LBB: “Democrats suck at running education”
Which explains why dead red states all dominate the very top of any educational ranking list in this country.
Just more Republispeak – truth are lies, up is down and losing is winning…
Jackie
April 28th, 2011
12:42 pm
@Lil Barry
Can you honestly say that your educational achievement is anywhere near that of President Obama?
Didn’t think so!
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
12:43 pm
USMC – 12:40 –
now, that’s funny
jm
April 28th, 2011
12:44 pm
USMC 12:04- likewise, I think Reed is doing a stand up job. (I did vote for him however)
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
12:45 pm
AmVet: “Which explains why dead red states all dominate the very top of any educational ranking list in this country.”
Was thinking that too. The top state in the nation in terms of school performance is, I believe, Massachusetts, about a deep blue as it gets.
In other words, Lil’ Bar got nothin.
carlosgvv
April 28th, 2011
12:45 pm
Peadawg
If the existence of God cannot be proved at all, why do you believe in Him? Since God’s existence cannot be proved or disproved, wouldn’t it make more sense just to put the matter aside and wait until some solid evidence comes in?
jm
April 28th, 2011
12:51 pm
I can’t believe they’re finally going to legalize sunday alcohol sales. And I’m probably about to move…. Government would work better if it had any sense of urgency (in particular on the issues that are more pressing than alcohol sales).
Joe Mama
April 28th, 2011
12:51 pm
Mick — “Gee, I thought you guys were all about personal responsiblity? The biggest obstacle to failing schools are disintersted parents and their children who are way too enamored of our entertainment culture. The education is out there, it is up to the students to access it and take responsiblity for their performance…”
You clearly don’t understand. Voucher advocates want to OUTSOURCE responsibility for their children’s education and they want to get paid for it. What they don’t recognize is that if they aren’t happy with the quality of the education their kids receive, there’ll be no one but themselves to blame for it.
You can’t get a refund for a crappy private school education like you can on the busted Cuisinart blender that Macy’s sold you.
jm
April 28th, 2011
12:52 pm
BEST proposal I’ve heard in years: If Congress doesn’t pass a budget with a deficit of less than 3% of GDP, members of Congress are barred from running for re-election. (a term limit of sorts)
DebbieDoRight
April 28th, 2011
12:54 pm
Jefferson: The same neocons that want a free ride to private schools would hide their parent’s assets to get them into a nursing home paid by medicare.
Can I get an AMEN?!?
Mary E.: There has been a systematic, political effort, for 30 years, by extreme Rightwing ideologues not only to dismantle public schools, but to dismantle – in an out of proportion way – the public arena, overall, for the private market
I’m thinking this is because they want the people from the public schools to become military fodder for their big ole military machine. Bad education? No problem – join the Marines. Can’t read well? No big deal – don’t need to read when you’re an Infantryman in the Army! Can’t get into college or get a good job? Heck who needs that – join the Navy!!
Finn McCool
April 28th, 2011
12:55 pm
You know, when you send Lil’l Johnny to private school and still have to pay for public education, you aren’t completely throwing that money away.
That money is going to help teach and train an individual who may one day be less likely to beat the crap out of your Lil’ Johnny for raiding his 401K plan.
No, but seriously, you have to have somewhat educated people to get jobs and be able to/ want to buy the “stuff” you are selling. You have to remember, you are creating a future market.
mm
April 28th, 2011
12:56 pm
They don’t want to test the charter school students because that would prove they are no better educated than public school students.
Can you imagine some of their answers?
The earth is 6000 years old.
The earth was created by God in 7 days.
The tides are caused by God (kudos to O’Reilly for that one).
There is no such thing as global warming.
The right is pushing charter schools so they can brainwash our kids with religious and wingnut BS. They haven’t been able to push their agenda in public schools so privately run schools is the obvious solution.
USMC
April 28th, 2011
12:56 pm
“USMC 12:04- likewise, I think Reed is doing a stand up job. (I did vote for him however)”-jm
I really like Kasim Reed( I didn’t vote for him) and his stance on the Atlanta Public Schools issue, etc.
He is making “common sense” decisions and isn’t locked into the usual “Racial Politics”(white&black) that we have had to put up with from the city of Atlanta.
And all of the sudden you look up and “the big bad Republican crook”-Nathan Deal(I didn’t vote for him either) and minority members across the aisle are hanging out and discussing issues in a statesmanlike manner with complements coming from both sides.
I think Nathan Deal is going to be a really good Governor and the same goes for Kasim Reed as Mayor of Atlanta.
I have never seen the simple communication and teamwork on real issues exhibited by a Governor of Georgia and Mayor of Atlanta in 44 years. That is a great sign for Atlanta and Georgia.
Yippee
April 28th, 2011
12:57 pm
Sounds like Mary Elizabeth could be classified as a Kochophobe. But then that topic was the other day.
Today there seems to be great angst relative to the kids; their schooling; and tests. Well, voucher smoucher and poopy doo. They won’t have time for test taking, much less school. Heck, there may no longer be any schools if something doesn’t get done about the spending and entitlement problem. Take a look at the future awaiting the kids if we don’t fix it.
http://heritageaction.com/tell-president-obama-to-stop-making-our-kids-pay/?UA-16902633-1&utm_source=heritageaction&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=video%2Bkids%2Bpay
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
12:58 pm
“Damn Pea, whatever you’ve been eating for breakfast…. Pass me some of that sh*t!!!!!” – All I had was a bowl of oatmeal with some splenda and milk in it. My wife may had spiked it…who knows.
“wouldn’t it make more sense just to put the matter aside and wait until some solid evidence comes in?” – It may make more sense to you to not believe in Him, but not to me and many others.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
12:59 pm
jm – where ya movin’ to??
getting a new gig?
jm
April 28th, 2011
1:00 pm
USMC 12:56 – I agree, I think Deal is going an ok job so far and he does seem to have a practical, cooperative minded approach, though I think it may be a little early to tell for sure. I wish the original tax reform council proposal had passed, but…. that’s not entirely Deal’s fault. Our legislature is a circus….
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
1:01 pm
Finn: “No, but seriously, you have to have somewhat educated people to get jobs and be able to/ want to buy the “stuff” you are selling. You have to remember, you are creating a future market.”
Ah but that was the old Fordist model. We’re post-Fordist now baby!!! Nowadays, to the extent we have actual markets at all, and not just ever greater debt bubbles, they’re going to be in the far flung growth nations.
Dave R.
April 28th, 2011
1:01 pm
SoCo: “Imagine how I feel. I’ve been paying for 8 years. It will be another 4 before my child sets foot in a public school building.”
Yeah, but on the plus side, coming from Alabama it means your kid is likely to clear middle school and go on to an excellent life-time career in fast food restaurants!
jm
April 28th, 2011
1:01 pm
USinUK 12:59 – not a done deal yet…..
stands for decibels
April 28th, 2011
1:01 pm
Just to address an item of off-topic interest…
If the existence of God cannot be proved at all, why do you believe in Him?
eh. Why not? I believe that God is love. I don’t indulge myself in a whole lot more specificity than that.
(as for what anyone’s Holy Book means, or ought to mean, I think Rabbi Shammai had it right. “That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Go and study it.”)
Others’ mileage may vary.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
1:02 pm
Evening news – loads of people celebrating the royal wedding tomorrow –
it’s nice to see people coming together and celebrating
Finn McCool
April 28th, 2011
1:03 pm
The right is pushing charter schools so they can brainwash our kids with religious and wingnut BS.
With everyone else’s money, no less.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
1:04 pm
jm – the job isn’t a done deal or a new job isn’t a done deal?
either way, BEST OF LUCK to you!!
nothing as stressful or as exciting as a move – I hope it all works out
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
1:04 pm
der – the job isn’t done or the move isn’t done?
(half watching the news, half writing – failing at both)
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 28th, 2011
1:05 pm
@Lil Barry
Can you honestly say that your educational achievement is anywhere near that of President Obama?
Didn’t think so!
————-
Sorry, but my policy is to not share any more personal info than necessary. I will tell you this, though–I know how to spend less than I have coming in, unlike your Idiot Messiah! I also know how to run a profitable business and keep my promises to customers, also unlike Obozo. And when something doesn’t go my way, I don’t blame it on the guy who was sitting in my chair two and a half years ago.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:05 pm
Test
The Joint Commission on Accredidation
April 28th, 2011
1:06 pm
Dang Jay, your article is so interesting that….were it within our executive power to do so…
…we would order all Metro Area School officials to STOP CORRECTING CRCT score sheets this week and take a small break in order to read your copy….
…after all, they still have all weekend to bring those scores up! One simply can’t erase for hours on end without a break now and then!
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:06 pm
Lil Barry…we also dont scream out racism.
jm
April 28th, 2011
1:07 pm
USinUK 1:04 – negotations / process not a done deal yet (knocking on wood)
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
1:08 pm
ooooo … the Syrian Ambassador has been disinvited … Libya not invited … Bahrain not invited … also not invited – Blair and Brown …
(hey – that means they have room – I’d better find my hat!)
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
1:08 pm
jm – well, speaking as one who is revelling in a new gig, I’m knocking wood for you, too
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 28th, 2011
1:09 pm
If you’re paying attention to the royal wedding or something called Snooki, then you’re either an idiot or a loser.
Glenn Beck
April 28th, 2011
1:10 pm
Lil Barry…we also dont scream out racism.
Speak for yourself.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:11 pm
Glenn Beck you scream racism?? WHO KNEW???
I cant wait for Herman Cain to come out and scream racism for the Demons not voting for him….do you think that will happen?
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
1:14 pm
Standardized tests are a joke. Teachers do their best to teach the test because they are scared. We teach our kids at home, but my kids just completed the Stanford Tests today. One of my daughter’s questions was “What do you do when you are driving and the light turns red?” And we wonder why we as a nation are behind other countries. My son said the test was political with a big slant to the left. It asked him “How does the United States benefit from immigration?”. I will say it again. Standardized tests are a joke!
Herman Cain
April 28th, 2011
1:16 pm
I cant wait for Herman Cain to come out and scream racism
No need. Already got good upstanding peeps who do that for me!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 28th, 2011
1:17 pm
If you’re paying attention to something called
SnookiLil’ barry bailout and not mocking or laughing at him , then you’re either an idiot or a loser.Fixed that for you! No thanks needed. Its a public service.
Barak
April 28th, 2011
1:17 pm
Racism, Racism Racism….don’t these people know that I am half white. I am stil doing my best to keep the black man down! hahahahaha
jm
April 28th, 2011
1:18 pm
BMDPD – the US does benefit from immigration. Depending on how its done and which individuals we’re talking about.
Drug dealing immigrants. Bad.
PHD’s in engineering. Good. Very good.
USMC
April 28th, 2011
1:18 pm
I really think our young people would be well served if our educational system went back to the 3 R’s:
Reading, (w)Riting, and (a)Rithmatic as a foundation.
Joe Mama
April 28th, 2011
1:20 pm
UGA1999 — “Mick….again I am not totally disagreeing with you. I am just for options.”
You already have options *today.* If you want to pull your kid out of public school and put him/her in a private academy, a church school, military academy or even homeschool them, you can do that TODAY.
What you don’t have is *subsidized* school choice, and that’s what this is really all about.
“If an education costs $1 for a public education and it costs $1 for a private education (hypothetical of course). I do not see why the left is fighting the voucher program. Competition and high education is better for us all.”
So would it be okay with you if Section 8 vouchers could be used for a Buckhead condo? And if four poor guys pooled their vouchers to move into the condo across the parking lot from you?
How would you feel if WIC and food stamps could be used at Ruth’s Chris? Would it put you off your porterhouse and potatoes Lyonnais if a poor person was hoeing down a lunch at the table next to you?
What if old MARTA tokens and unused Breeze cards could be used to buy a used car? Would you like it if Jeff Whitetrash came to buy your used Nissan with a wheelbarrow-load of expired transit tokens?
Public assistance has *never* meant ‘you can use it in any way you see fit.’ Public assistance has always had restrictions and strings attached. If you want the Section 8 housing, the WIC/food stamps, the subsidized MARTA rides or the free public education, then you have to take it in the form provided.
If you want the higher-priced spread, then you’ve got to come off the hip yourself. Don’t look to the taxpayer to subsidize your family’s lifestyle choices.
AngryRedMarsWoman
April 28th, 2011
1:20 pm
Jay said – “It’s in everybody’s interest to help those kids overcome the disinterest and worse of their parents, and schools are the only place where that can happen.”
Yes. I agree. I am very involved in my child’s education and I MAKE time to be involved even though I am stretched pretty thin with work, home chores, etc. and I do feel sorry for the kids whose parents are not so interested, or worse who are hostile to education. One weapon in my pro-education arsenal is to tell my child how much it would suck to be poor. I push education because it gives you choices in life and because with an education you have a shot at living a comfortable life – the guy without an education has very limited choices. Maybe education would have more value to them if some of these kids weren’t raised with an understanding that they will be “okay” if they can just push out a baby or find some other way to get on the government teat?
Normal
April 28th, 2011
1:21 pm
Totally off topic, but something to ponder…
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/04/navy-mabus-women-attack-submarines-042711w/
jconservative
April 28th, 2011
1:21 pm
No one likes “government schools”. Boortz has been ranting about them for years.
The disdain for “government schools” is probably why the University of Georgia is about to close its doors for lack of students. No one likes “government schools”.
We should outlaw any public money going to private schools no matter how the public money gets to the school. Private schools are just a bad idea.
Heck! Look at Barack H Obama, 9 years in private Christian schools and look at how he turned out.
What more evidence do you want?
USMC
April 28th, 2011
1:21 pm
“BMDPD – the US does benefit from immigration. Depending on how its done and which individuals we’re talking about.
Drug dealing immigrants. Bad.
PHD’s in engineering. Good. Very good.”
(fill in occupation desired) Legal Immigrants…Best!
Normal
April 28th, 2011
1:23 pm
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.americanprogress.org/cartoons/2008/05/img/052908_big.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.americanprogress.org/cartoons/2008/05/052908_big.html&h=448&w=600&sz=73&tbnid=VhA25J39OGvEYM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcartoons%2Bon%2Beducation%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=cartoons+on+education&usg=__SmvYeNAmfiX8wPQjc06BiqOumZE=&sa=X&ei=RKK5TciEE4q-tgfn6KneBA&ved=0CCsQ9QEwBA
DebbieDoRight
April 28th, 2011
1:24 pm
Heck, there may no longer be any schools if something doesn’t get done about the spending and entitlement problem
You mean gas subsidies?
LBB: If you’re paying attention to the royal wedding or something called Snooki, then you’re either an idiot or a loser.
Why don’t men like weddings? They are the most beautiful and life altering moments ever! I think men have wedding envy……
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:24 pm
Joe….who said higher priced. Again read the posts then come back with an intelligent comment which you have yet to do.
You are speaking of standardized housing versus education. Let me guess you attended public schools and maybe just maybe you have a two year degree from a community college.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:25 pm
Demoncrats = HYPOCRATS!
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
1:25 pm
USMC – hell, I’ll go one better than that – I think the US and UK education system would improve if they went back to a college track / vocational education system. not everyone is cut out for university, why are we educating them that way?
USMC
April 28th, 2011
1:25 pm
I like the idea of educational monies following the student instead of the student having to follow the money. (to the non-performing school). It can work.
I believe some of the Scandinavian countries have perfected this idea.
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
1:25 pm
Normal, I went from nothing to an MS in the military almost all paid for. I did have to take 1 student loan of about 2k and some GI bill assistance. What you “Normal” people don’t realize is that the military provides you every opportunity to get your degree while you are active.
Normal
April 28th, 2011
1:27 pm
Could it be that the GOP saw this cartoon…hhhmmmm?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASW3UCc17AI
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
1:27 pm
UGA – ‘who said higher priced’ – and, yet, you still haven’t posted ANYthing that backs up your claim of $25K/year assertion.
as I said earlier, even CATO says that it’s $10K/year – which is less than the Pius tuition and fees I cited earlier
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
1:29 pm
jm, Legal immigration may be good for our country, but it is sad when your 12 year old tells you he had to answer based on what would be considered liberal views. That was not the only slanted question.
Normal
April 28th, 2011
1:29 pm
BMDPD,
My “Viet Nam era G.I. Bill” paid for my education and living allowance for my family, so what’s your point?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
April 28th, 2011
1:29 pm
@Finn Mcool
What’s funny is that the “left” is just as religious as the “right”. If you don’t agree with that please provide something that says otherwise.
I guess you haven’t gone to church lately, just as many Democrats as Republicans.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:30 pm
USIN…here is one just for starters and this is from the left leaning Washington Post….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/04/AR2008040402921.html
Ok, again lets use the $10k number. Would you be for the government giving each family and $10k voucher to use on education for their children. It is not costing you a dime more than it is today.
Joe Mama
April 28th, 2011
1:31 pm
UGA1999 — “Joe….who said higher priced.”
We all know that private education costs more than public. Don’t try to act like it doesn’t. The only way you get off cheaper is homeschooling, and I certainly hope you’re not going to try to get a voucher for that.
“Again read the posts”
I already did. Reread my post, because there were a lot of questions in there that *you* obviously didn’t read.
“then come back with an intelligent comment which you have yet to do.”
No, I’ve already trumped you. You simply have no coherent response to the argument I advanced.
Public assistance has NEVER meant that you can use it whenever and wherever you please, and that’s a fact. My examples and questions to you still stand, and I have a pretty good idea why you haven’t replied to them.
“You are speaking of standardized housing versus education.”
YOU argued that if costs were the same, that you should be able to choose the form that the free public education comes in. I merely pointed out how ludicrous your argument was by applying YOUR suggestion to housing, food assistance and subsidized transit. As they say on “Law and Order,” ‘you opened that door, Counselor, so I’m letting opposing counsel walk through it.’ Don’t get all heated at me because I showed the hole in your argument.
“Let me guess you attended public schools”
Yes. And?
“and maybe just maybe you have a two year degree from a community college.”
Five degrees at or above the Bachelors’ level. Plus a hitch in the US Army. You?
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
1:31 pm
Normal, my point is that soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines can get a degree on active duty. The US military affords them every opportunity to do so. Most of them chose to drink and have a good time their first few years in when they could have gone to school instead. The prior GI bill was enough.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:31 pm
Joe Mama…..you are behind on every post you render.
GFY
April 28th, 2011
1:32 pm
Now this buffoon Bookman is calling for measurement of a program’s effectiveness…..that is rich coming from a lib…….care to measure the effectiveness of the money that has been spent on the “War on Poverty”? How about Title I in the public schools/government daycare? Mostly people are just tired of seeing such poor results in public education and prefer not to have to pay for their kids as well as yours when funding education.
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
1:32 pm
DebbieDoRight
April 28th, 2011
12:54 pm
Jefferson: The same neocons that want a free ride to private schools would hide their parent’s assets to get them into a nursing home paid by medicare.
Can I get an AMEN?!?
Mary E.: There has been a systematic, political effort, for 30 years, by extreme Rightwing ideologues not only to dismantle public schools, but to dismantle – in an out of proportion way – the public arena, overall, for the private market
I’m thinking this is because they want the people from the public schools to become military fodder for their big ole military machine. Bad education? No problem – join the Marines. Can’t read well? No big deal – don’t need to read when you’re an Infantryman in the Army! Can’t get into college or get a good job? Heck who needs that – join the Navy!!
Debbie, what a shi**y thing to say about the Military. These brave people die for you and you insult them, what the hell is wrong with you?
The Repubs have done more for the Military than any Left wing kook has ever done. Have you ever flown an F-16 or a chopper or how about an Abrams Tank? didn’t think so.
You need some smarts for that, something you obviously lack.
USMC
April 28th, 2011
1:33 pm
“USMC – hell, I’ll go one better than that – I think the US and UK education system would improve if they went back to a college track / vocational education system. not everyone is cut out for university, why are we educating them that way?”-UsinUK
Did I wake up a Democrat today?:-)
I completely agree with you! (did I just say that?)
Do you remember when Technically/Vocationally gifted students were able to pursue a Technical education? (Technical/Vocational schools)
These days everyone has been brainwashed into thinking that they MUST to go to college to be successful. I am in total agreement with you.
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
1:33 pm
Just saw on tv where 15 students in a Tucson, Arizona school were handcuffed together and were arrested for an in school protest. What were they protesting? They were protesting “ethnic studies” being changed from a core requirement to an elective. Hell I didn’t even know they taught utter nonsense like “ethnic studies” as a core class much less an elective. I mistakenly thought they were supposed to be teaching reading, writing, arithmetic, etc. This tells me all I need to know about public education in this country. I hereby declare this debate over.
DebbieDoRight
April 28th, 2011
1:33 pm
What you don’t have is *subsidized* school choice, and that’s what this is really all about.
You know I think I’ve got a solution to this whole problem:
Want a voucher to put your kid in private school? Then the amount that you pay for property tax every year that goes towards school funding (public school), can be reimbursed to you and you can take that money and enroll your kids into private school.
Voila!!
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:34 pm
Joe Mama…..here is my point that you seem to have a hard time understanding so I will attempt type slowly for you.
If a public school costs the government/taxpayer $1. Would you be willing for the government to give each family a $1 voucher so that they can get their eduction from an alternative resouce?
Was that slow enough for you?
jm
April 28th, 2011
1:34 pm
BMDPD – well, if the question was worded that way, it was a leading question.
Joe Mama
April 28th, 2011
1:35 pm
UGA1999 — “Joe Mama…..you are behind on every post you render.”
Not because *you* say so, Young One. (laughing)
I’d like to see your coherent response to my response in re food stamps, Section 8 and subsidized transit. If you have no problem allowing the change you advocate to public education, then you should have no problem allowing poor people to use their assistance to move into Buckhead condos, to buy cars with Breeze cards and to eat at fine dining establishments with their WIC and food stamp assistance.
If you think not, I’d be very interested in hearing your exposition on same.
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
1:36 pm
DebbieDoRight, you are insane. The AJC published an article not too long ago stating that 25% of high school graduates cannot score high enough on the ASVAB to join the Army (lowest required of all branches). Also, 25% of high school graduates are too fat to join the military. Look it up if you don’t believe me.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:36 pm
Thulsa…here is the video….good ole public education!!
I would have arrested all of them and then requested immigration status.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=59d_1303985662
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:37 pm
Joe….try to stay on subject. I know it is difficult for you guys but I believe in you.
The Real Truth
April 28th, 2011
1:38 pm
US schools do fine! Look at how many go on to college. If the US wants to be #1 in testing, then only test the best & brightest! That’s how other countries “out perform the US” on standardized test.
Politicians want the education in the US to struggle so they can use education as a “pawn” to get what they want. If our schools were ranked high on the list, then politicians would not have anything to complain about.
In most other foreign countries, students who are academically challenged do not study beyond an elementary education, instead they choose a vocation and learn a trade. The US should look into vocation education as an alternative for failing students.
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
1:39 pm
Debbiedoright,
Actually the military has dramatically higher standards for entrance than it did in the past. I know because my brother was an officer at a recruiting post for several years. I have to wonder if someone who went to school in the Detroit or Atlanta public school systems could even get into the military nowadays. I’m thinking the military probably would still take them though- albeit reluctantly.
As for the worst big school systems in the country such as Atlanta, Philly, Detroit, Washington, DC, LA, Chicago, etc. which party has controlled these failing public school systems for decades now? Ya’ll get back to me when you can figure that one out.
V
April 28th, 2011
1:39 pm
The State “Standards” tests are one of the big problems. Teaching to the CRCT has wrecked our cirricullum. Jay, did you totally miss the social studies flop and the math DISASTER that has occurred over the last 5 years as Georgia DOE whipsawed teachers and students so that ‘experts’ and vendors could be paid enormous sums to mess with the cirriculum? I am for accountable vouchers-but the tests must be ITBS or some nationally or internationally recognized measure of performance. ACT and SAT scores by high school(private and public) are availible. Does this mean that vouchers for high school are ok? Parents should hire and fire their kids teachers. TEACHERS should get to hire and fire their students. The more educrats, vendors, lobbyist, administrators, etc… we can put out of jobs, the better off the kids will be. The ‘education complex’ rivals the ‘military industrial complex’.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
1:40 pm
UGA – did you miss the “in the district” part of that sentence???
not nationwide, in DC
as for giving each family $10K (or a $10K tax break), no – I’m not for it. because you seem to forget that it’s not just those with children who pay for education – it’s those of us who have chosen NOT to have children who pay for education. I don’t want my money to go towards your child’s (or your neighbor’s child’s) religious education – or schools which can refuse kids who have special needs – or schools who can refuse admission because of race or the sexuality of a kid’s parents. ALL of which are what you get with private schools
AmVet
April 28th, 2011
1:40 pm
BMDPD. I wonder if that entrance exam is still absurdly easy.
As I recall it would not be terribly difficult for a precocious eighth grader…
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
1:40 pm
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
1:31 pm
Normal, my point is that soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines can get a degree on active duty. The US military affords them every opportunity to do so. Most of them chose to drink and have a good time their first few years in when they could have gone to school instead. The prior GI bill was enough.
BMDBD, while I agree with you on some things, I think for the past 10 years our soldiers aren’t partying to much, do you?
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
1:42 pm
UGA1999 @ 1:24 – ” then come back with an intelligent comment which you have yet to do.”
then
UGA1999 @ 1:25 – “Demoncrats = HYPOCRATS!”
um…anyone else here see the irony? Damn, son, you give UGA grads a bad name.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:43 pm
USin….but you ALREADY are paying for their education. Actually in most cases what you get with a private school is a better education. I know that you would rather see children raised in a failing education system that is producing some of the worlds lowest educated students. That is a great investment of your tax dollar. Great job. Typcial nonsnse by the left. Who is surprised.
At the same time you want to use my tax dollars to pay to kill babies. WOW!
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
1:43 pm
USinUK @ 1:40
Exactly!
Joe Mama
April 28th, 2011
1:44 pm
Debbie — “Want a voucher to put your kid in private school? Then the amount that you pay for property tax every year that goes towards school funding (public school), can be reimbursed to you and you can take that money and enroll your kids into private school.”
I have no kids, and therefore no kids in public school. Do I get *my* property taxes back?
UGA1999 — Joe Mama…..here is my point that you seem to have a hard time understanding so I will attempt type slowly for you.”
UGA — there is no call for you to be a jackass on this thread. I have been polite to you, and I think you should be polite in return. I have questioned neither your education nor your intelligence, and I have borne your unwarranted insults with good grace. Now straighten up and fly right, or else I shall ask Mr. Bookman to consider whether or not you need a time-out from this blog.
Is that clear? Or do I need to type *that* more slowly for you?
I have understood your idea *just fine* from the beginning. I simply do not agree with it.
“If a public school costs the government/taxpayer $1. Would you be willing for the government to give each family a $1 voucher so that they can get their eduction from an alternative resouce?”
No. I am opposed to your idea. As I have already said, public assistance has *never* meant that you can use it however, wherever and whenever you please. Regulations are in place to (hopefully) prevent fraud and misuse. Surely you are against those two things.
If you truly advocate your idea, then would it be okay for you if poor people could pool their Section 8 vouchers and move into the Buckhead condo across the parking lot from you?
If you truly advocate your idea, then would it be okay for you if poor people could use their food stamps/WIC to eat at Ruth’s Chris or another fine dining establishment?
If you truly advocate your idea, then would it be okay for you if poor people could buy cars by saving up old MARTA tokens and Breeze cards?
Your argument is the same as the situations I have posited; just applied to different forms of public assistance. And if you support one, then I can see no logical or policy reason to reject the others. That’s why I oppose your idea.
“Was that slow enough for you?”
I understood your concept from the outset. You needn’t have been a jerk about it.
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
1:44 pm
poison pen, I retired from the Navy 2 years ago. The enlisted barracks rival any college dorm. Some of my drunkest youthful times were in Bahrain and United Arab Emirates. Trust me. They are still partying. Education (core courses) are offered on many remote bases.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:44 pm
THE LEFT WOULD RATHER KILL BABIES THAN EDUCATE THEM!
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
1:44 pm
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
1:40 pm
UGA – did you miss the “in the district” part of that sentence???
not nationwide, in DC
as for giving each family $10K (or a $10K tax break), no – I’m not for it. because you seem to forget that it’s not just those with children who pay for education – it’s those of us who have chosen NOT to have children who pay for education. I don’t want my money to go towards your child’s (or your neighbor’s child’s) religious education – or schools which can refuse kids who have special needs – or schools who can refuse admission because of race or the sexuality of a kid’s parents. ALL of which are what you get with private schools
USUK, that’s a bold face lie, my 2 Grandaughters go to a private school and none of what you state is true. If you said some private schools do then I might agree with you, but not all, never.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:45 pm
joe….Oh NO!!! Joe Mama is going to tell the teacher!! hahahahahaha I have said nothing in my posts that were degrading at all. Grow up.
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
1:45 pm
UGA1999 thanks much,
Yesterday a Tucson, Arizona Unified School District board meeting was scheduled to discuss making the La Raza Studies, or the Race Studies, an elective in public schools rather than banning the program all together. The ethnic studies program was banned earlier this year because of the material being taught in the program. Instructors of the Raza Studies, also known as Mexican-American Studies.
Ahhh yes. So now we have our American public education being hijacked by illegal aliens in our own country- a move no doubt supported by the libs for some inexplicable reason. Tell ya what though. We can appease the illegals by granting this class then we’ll have Eurocentric studies, african centric studies, asian centric studies, native american studies, etc. Am I leaving anyone out? Oh, we gotta have Arabic centric studies and South Asian as in Indian centric studies. After all that we’ll just tell the students to learn the reading, writing, and arithmetic on their own time.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:46 pm
Poison….most of what he says is a lie. We have gotten used to it.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
1:46 pm
“At the same time you want to use my tax dollars to pay to kill babies. ”
That doesn’t exist.
UGA1999
April 28th, 2011
1:46 pm
Planned Parenthood……
Joe Mama
April 28th, 2011
1:47 pm
UGA1999 — “Joe….try to stay on subject.”
I’m on the subject, THREADMARM. (eyeroll)
You don’t determine the direction of discussion for others.
“I know it is difficult for you guys but I believe in you.”
What seems to be difficult is for you to handle coherent negative responses to your ideas. I know it is hurtful for you to hear negative feedback on your ideas from folks who have already gotten there and thought them out ahead of you, but life is hard.
Your politeness, going forward, would be greatly appreciated. I am hopeful that you will not disappoint me in that regard.
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
1:48 pm
UGA, Amen!
DebbieDoRight
April 28th, 2011
1:48 pm
pp: These brave people die for you and you insult them, what the hell is wrong with you?
The Repubs have done more for the Military than any Left wing kook has ever done. Have you ever flown an F-16 or a chopper or how about an Abrams Tank? didn’t think so.
You rang? Oh peepee it’s always good to hear from you! Did you ever clear up that rash? Also did you get a chance to visit your local clinic for some testing? Don’t put it off – it’s better to know for sure than to be afraid of the answer. OK back to your question: An Abrams tank or any tank for that matter that’s used for combat has never been driven by a woman — women are not considered as combatants in a war (US). As for an F-16……….no. Chopper…………ummm no again!!! Thanks for playing!
BMPDD: DebbieDoRight, you are insane. The AJC published an article not too long ago stating that 25% of high school graduates cannot score high enough on the ASVAB to join the Army (lowest required of all branches). Also, 25% of high school graduates are too fat to join the military.
That was HS grads in Georgia not nationwide. However, the cunning military industralists can always figure out a way to circumvent this egregious error – they can simply lower the test requirements!
Voila!!!
Today it’s voila, yesterday it was Roll Ride!!! (an homage to elephants).
John Birch
April 28th, 2011
1:48 pm
Public schools might benefit more from the increased competition from private schools more than they would from the increased funding. Anyone getting public funding should be accountable (standardized testing) and that should include the teachers and addministrators.
jm
April 28th, 2011
1:50 pm
UGA1999 – I must stop speedreading. I though you originally wrote: THE LEFT WOULD RATHER KILL BABIES THAN DUPLICATE THEM!
Look, Calvin’s duplicator will take care of any issues.
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
1:50 pm
No Debbie, Georgia was closer to 30%.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/21/high-school-grads-fail-military-exam_n_799767.html
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 28th, 2011
1:50 pm
Pea…have some empathy for the UGAwow…. after all he got a government public school education and we know how bad he tells us that is.
Rich
April 28th, 2011
1:51 pm
I thought that we hated standardized test from NCLB?
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
1:51 pm
Thulsa, When we lived in Michigan, just North of Detroit, the board of Ed. tried to get Black English as a subject matter in schools. This is how far we have come as a society and people wonder why our children are having a hard time.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
1:51 pm
UGA – “but you ALREADY are paying for their education”
I pay for their education in a system that will NOT turn anyone away, regardless of their educational needs, regardless of their religion, regardless of their family situation. And again, there are more schools that do well than there are failing schools – and, yes, I’m happy to continue funding that system.
Poisson – did I say that ALL private schools do that? no. so, spare us your poutrage.
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
1:52 pm
When I say Black English I mean Ebonics, not Black History, which should be taught.
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
1:52 pm
@BMDPD 1:50 – Man, that is taxpayer funded public education for you.
Joe Mama
April 28th, 2011
1:53 pm
poison pen — “Normal, my point is that soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines can get a degree on active duty. The US military affords them every opportunity to do so.”
Well, that’s what the policy says, but in practice, my experience is that it isn’t so easy.
I didn’t start grad school until after I got out (had hoped to make a dent in it when I was still in the Army), but many of the commanders in my division just couldn’t allow more than a guy per company-sized unit (and sometimes, only one or two guys per battalion) to take any sort of classes. We had to be deployable at all times, and being gone for 6-10 weeks pretty much shoots the school term for you.
I only knew a couple of guys who were able to get many courses done while I was in, and they were mostly desk-job guys. Front-line guys like infantry or artillery didn’t stand much of a chance, from what I saw.
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
1:53 pm
“Planned Parenthood……”
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/
Read the last 3 paragraphs, UGA. “by law, Title X funds may not be used in programs where abortion is a method of family planning.”
TaxPayer
April 28th, 2011
1:53 pm
It’s certainly difficult to argue with any claim from UGA1999 that the school system failed him.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 28th, 2011
1:53 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 28th, 2011
1:17 pm
——–
I think I hurt someone’s feelings. So, are you a royal-wedding-watching Snooki follower? AKA a two-time loser?
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
1:54 pm
GFY, where’d you come from?
What’s a “lib” dude? Is it “lib” to use your head?
Is it “lib” to follow Donald Trump’s clownish antics?
So c’mon dude, what’s a “lib” ?
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
1:55 pm
BMPDD: DebbieDoRight, you are insane. The AJC published an article not too long ago stating that 25% of high school graduates cannot score high enough on the ASVAB to join the Army (lowest required of all branches). Also, 25% of high school graduates are too fat to join the military.
That was HS grads in Georgia not nationwide. However, the cunning military industralists can always figure out a way to circumvent this egregious error – they can simply lower the test requirements!
Voila!!!
Today it’s voila, yesterday it was Roll Ride!!! (an homage to elephants).
Debbie,
Voila is your response? You state the the republicans want the public schools dumbed down to the point that the students will have no choice but to then join the military to become cannon fodder for the Republican’s war machine. Then BMPD and myself to a lesser degree point out to you that the military does not want a lot of these students and has raised its standards to keep these idiots out? Did you really think the military wants kids that are barely functioning operating multi-million dollar equipement? And all you can do is respond with voila?
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
1:56 pm
Joe, I went from 0 to MS in 13 years.
Fly-On-The-Wall
April 28th, 2011
1:56 pm
JB – why is it that the right feels that ‘competition’ will help solve this problem when that is a total apples-to-oranges? Why do they feel that business competition is the way to go with everything when not everything should be run like a business?
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
1:57 pm
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
1:51 pm
UGA – “but you ALREADY are paying for their education”
I pay for their education in a system that will NOT turn anyone away, regardless of their educational needs, regardless of their religion, regardless of their family situation. And again, there are more schools that do well than there are failing schools – and, yes, I’m happy to continue funding that system.
Poisson – did I say that ALL private schools do that? no. so, spare us your poutrage.
USUK, Do you even know what you write, you said, “all of what you get at private schools” and I say BS.
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
1:57 pm
Thulsa, it wasn’t just Georgia. Georgia was nearer to 30% “too stupid” to join the army. Wow!
Joe Mama
April 28th, 2011
1:58 pm
UGA1999 — “joe….Oh NO!!! Joe Mama is going to tell the teacher!!”
If that’s how you care to view it. Makes no nevermind to me. Are you going to be polite and adult, or are you going to continue to be insulting and immature?
“hahahahahaha I have said nothing in my posts that were degrading at all.”
Okay, then you should have no problem with me flagging some of your recent posts so Jay can have a look. Or would you prefer to do it yourself?
“Grow up.”
Young One, I believe *you* are the one who needs to learn how to act with the decorum usually associated with adulthood.
I doubt your mother would be proud of your public manners and behavior.
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
1:58 pm
Debbie, call names if you want but you are still a disgrace. To belittle out soldiers is typical for a whacko Liberal.
Jefferson
April 28th, 2011
1:58 pm
In the 60’s in a lot of cases it was jail or the Army
AngryRedMarsWoman
April 28th, 2011
1:58 pm
@USinUSK said “not everyone is cut out for university,”
A-freaking-MEN.
@Debbie – you are just straight up wrong about the military being a dumping ground for idiots. My beloved was an Army recruiter for many years and I can assure you that your beliefs are not the reality of today’s military. The last study I read indicated that 98 percent of all enlisted recruits who enter the military have an education level of high school graduate or higher, compared to the national average of 75 percent. And for those with only a GED, while the rest of the world, including government institutions and universities, might regard the GED as the same as a high school diploma with respect to program eligibility and as a prerequisite for admissions, the US military has explicitly higher requirements in admissions for GEDs to compensate for their lack of a traditional high school diploma.
Joe Mama
April 28th, 2011
1:59 pm
BMDPD — “Joe, I went from 0 to MS in 13 years.”
I am very sorry to hear of your Multiple Sclerosis.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 28th, 2011
1:59 pm
Nice try silly lil bar…I don’t care about either. I’m just mocking your buffoonery today.
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
2:00 pm
Here Debbie, a source you can trust.
http://www.blackvoicenews.com/news/news-wire/45953-blacks-failing-the-grade-in-military-testing.html
Score one more for public ED!
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
2:00 pm
Public edumacation at its best-
The report by The Education Trust found that 23 percent of recent high school graduates don’t get the minimum score needed on the enlistment test to join any branch of the military. Questions are often basic, such as: “If 2 plus x equals 4, what is the value of x?”
The military exam results are also worrisome because the test is given to a limited pool of people: Pentagon data shows that 75 percent of those aged 17 to 24 don’t even qualify to take the test because they are physically unfit, have a criminal record or didn’t graduate high school.
Educators expressed dismay that so many high school graduates are unable to pass a test of basic skills.
“It’s surprising and shocking that we are still having students who are walking across the stage who really don’t deserve to be and haven’t earned that right,” said Tim Callahan with the Professional Association of Georgia Educators, a group that represents more than 80,000 educators.
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
2:02 pm
BMDPD,
Good grief! Ya know you’re giving them a beat down when you’re info comes from sources like the Huffington Post. Take it easy on em and give em some time to get up off the floor.
USinUK
April 28th, 2011
2:03 pm
poisson – “Do you even know what you write, you said, “all of what you get at private schools” and I say BS”
yes – and all of those ARE what you get through private schools – not all private schools – but, yes, all of those issues DO happen in non-public education
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 28th, 2011
2:04 pm
23 percent of recent high school graduates
I dont see a distinction made in that number between public school and private school education. Perhaps someone should be questioning their own ability to post evidence to support their rant against “public edumacation”.
Mary Elizabeth
April 28th, 2011
2:04 pm
DebbieDoRight @ 12:54:
“I’m thinking this is because they want the people from the public schools to become military fodder for their big ole military machine. Bad education? No problem – join the Marines. Can’t read well? No big deal – don’t need to read when you’re an Infantryman in the Army! Can’t get into college or get a good job? Heck who needs that – join the Navy!!”
———————————————————————————-
Thanks for responding. I am afraid that the dismantling of the public arena (through propaganda which was begun in Think Tanks decades ago) is, in large part, due to greed for power and money, as well as for implementing a Far Right ideology throughout the nation. I only hope that the working and middle classes start to wake up as to how they have been used by this propaganda to vote against their own interests.
The military is part of the government, just as Medicare is. The wealthy elite control so much in our nation presently because they have bought our politicians, in large part, if not individually, then as groups, and the new Supreme Court ruling about “corporations have rights as people” has hurt the common person’s interest, even further.
BTW, let me go on record as saying that I am not anti-business nor am I totally against corporations, but I am for a balance between the public and private sectors within our nation. Private sector business is the engine of capitalism and keeps us moving financially, but the public sector serves the common interests of us all (such as road, parks, schools, safety measures, etc.) and the public sector, at its best, reminds us of our commonality and common humanity. We are best as a nation, when the public and private sectors are in proper balance, just as when the federal/state dichotomy is in proper balance and not fighting each other’s proper roles. The Rightwing ideologues have tried to manuever an imbalance in our nation for 30 years – and their efforts are now showing forth by manifestation in what being out of balance has created.
DebbieDoRight
April 28th, 2011
2:05 pm
Hi ya Doom!
Doom:Debbiedoright, Actually the military has dramatically higher standards for entrance than it did in the past. I know because my brother was an officer at a recruiting post for several years. I have to wonder if someone who went to school in the Detroit or Atlanta public school systems could even get into the military nowadays.
They can and do.
As for the worst big school systems in the country such as Atlanta, Philly, Detroit, Washington, DC, LA, Chicago, etc. which party has controlled these failing public school systems for decades now? Ya’ll get back to me when you can figure that one out.
Doom – your comment made me interested in researching which schools were the worst in america. Guess what?!? The state that was most consistently in the top 25 was South Carolina!!! (Isn’t that a republican state?). I also found 3 charter schools listed, 1 school in South Dakota (Repub), 3 schools in Milwaukee, (another repub), AND TWO in Arizona (yet ANOTHER repub state!!) Imagine that huh?
W.A. Perry Middle School Columbia, S.C.
Lakeview Middle School Greenville, S.C.
Alcorn Middle School Columbia, S.C.
Choices School Florence, S.C.
Charleston Development Academy Charleston, S.C.
Midlands Math and Business Academy Columbia, S.C.
Brentwood Middle School North Charleston, S.C.
Morningside Middle School North Charleston, S.C.
Youthbuild Charleston Center North Charleston, S.C.
Kennedy/Lloyd Charter School Aiken, S.C.
jewcowboy
April 28th, 2011
2:07 pm
I’m moving to Wisconsin and opening my own private school. “jewcowboy’s learnatorium for the gift and not so gifted.” By the time anyone realizes I’m teaching the kids 2+2=money in jewcowboy’s pocket, I’m going to be living here: http://tinyurl.com/644nevo.
Normal
April 28th, 2011
2:11 pm
“THE LEFT WOULD RATHER KILL BABIES THAN EDUCATE THEM!”
Another lie by the misinformed or to blind to see …
\
The “Left” is for the rights of a woman to choose concerning her own body. The “Left” would rather she have her baby and if she is unable or unwilling to raise it, then the “Left” would have a program in which to receive that child, see that it is raised in a healthy, caring environment, which will see to its education, thereby insuring that the child becomes a boon to society and not a burden. The “Right”, on the other hand, would say that’s socialism and unacceptable.
But bottom line, The “Left” would guarantee a woman’s right to choose.
And besides, you right wing Christians out there should rejoice that another innocent soul has returned to Heaven instead of a home where it will receive nothing but abuse. Good thinking, there…
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
2:14 pm
Debbiedoright,
Those are individual schools and anyone can cherry pick individual schools in a nation of 300 million. Your point is irrelevant.
Secondly South Carolina is a southern state with a heavy minority population. Its no secret that minorities and blacks in particular score significantly lower in standardized testing and so hence southern red states will have lower performing schools than blue states like Wisconsin that have much lower minority populations. The poorer performing schools such as in South Carolina are a result of demographics and not because South Carolina is a red state.
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 28th, 2011
2:14 pm
I’m not in favor of vouchers but I do think there is an over-emphasis on standarized tests. They have their place but I think the system places too much stock in them.
AmVet
April 28th, 2011
2:15 pm
jcb, learnatorium? I love that! And that all-American entrepreneurial spirit.
pen, good to see you’re a big time protector of the honor of active duty members and veterans.
Now the next time one of your never-served, never-will right wing pals here, slurs one of us regarding our military service, you be sure to call him out, OK?
BTW, congrats to Larry “Chipper” Jones for breaking the RBI record set by childhood hero – Micky Mantle…
carlosgvv
April 28th, 2011
2:16 pm
Peadawg
I asked you a sensible question and you responded with a completely illogical answer, just as I knew you would.
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
2:17 pm
Keep (2:04) are you really going to go there? Really? I mean….really?
Jay
April 28th, 2011
2:17 pm
Fresh tie-dyed sheets upstairs
DebbieDoRight
April 28th, 2011
2:19 pm
peepee:Debbie, call names if you want but you are still a disgrace. To belittle out soldiers is typical for a whacko Liberal.
Pizz et al – my father was a military man and is now a police officer, as were my 3 uncles, one aunt, two brothers that are still serving and (drumrolll please…) my husband who recently left the service to become a contractor in Afghanistan. To say that I have no regard for the military OR veterans or even the POLICE when I have been known to stick up for all of them, (as well as put down certain aspects of each of them); just smacks of someone who’s looking to pick a fight for no apparent reason than just to garner my attention. I volunteer at the VA, I am STILL a member of the War Widows, (even though my husband is not in the military now – oh and it’s just the name of the club we’re not actually war widows — i have to spell that out for you since you don’t understand things…….); and I do taxes for free for servicemembers’ spouses and families; and have represented a few for FREE in arbitration with the IRS.
Why not try READING it like it was written? Tongue in cheek, facetious and not to be taken seriously. In other words, BUY A CLUE!!
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
2:19 pm
The NCES periodically administers the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) to American students in grades 4, 8, and 12. In all subject areas, private school students consistently score well above the national average.
Read more at Suite101: Pros and Cons of Private Schools: Private School Statistics and How to Apply | Suite101.com http://www.suite101.com/content/pros-and-cons-of-private-schools-a132539#ixzz1KqLUhn4P
carlosgvv
April 28th, 2011
2:21 pm
AmVet
Is Larry “Chipper” Jones on of those “never-served, never-will” people you are talking about? I guess he gets a free pass from you because he is a big league baseball hero. Heaven forbid he should ever serve his country like the rest of us.
DebbieDoRight
April 28th, 2011
2:22 pm
Doom: Those are individual schools and anyone can cherry pick individual schools in a nation of 300 million. Your point is irrelevant.
Well you cherry picked individual CITIES in a nation with over 300 million cities. Your point is irrelevant too!!!
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
2:22 pm
BMDPD,
Be careful with them facts or Jay is going to change the topic with a new debate. Oops. Looks like he already did.
DebbieDoRight
April 28th, 2011
2:24 pm
Secondly South Carolina is a southern state with a heavy minority population
BushS##HI##T Doom! Blame it on the minorities!! Your answer for EVERYTHING!!!
Peadawg
April 28th, 2011
2:24 pm
“I asked you a sensible question and you responded with a completely illogical answer, just as I knew you would.”
I can’t believe we’re still on this. Until you show me proof that God does NOT exist, you have no right to call me delusional for believing in him. Period, End of story.
Mary Elizabeth
April 28th, 2011
2:26 pm
There have been many comments about why students fail in public schools and I have previously given many suggestions, in detail, of how to correct that failure. It is not exciting reading and it may have bored some – but I will state, very briefl,y here again, how failure can be turned into success.
(1) The range of standardized reading scores for 9th graders in my high school of 1800 students was 4th grade level to grade level 16 (4th yr. of college). This range was consistently there for 15 years. Half of the 9th graders were reading on 6th grade level or below.
(2) Obviously, students must be delivered of a more pinpointed, individualized instruction in every grade, before and after 9th grade.
(3) Public schools take everyone – they are not exclusive. Look for individual differences.
(4) Start early with PreK education for all children in order to minimize this wide range of test results.
(5) Use standardized testing for diagnostic purposes only, not to dismiss teachers.
(5) Implement teacher training programs in how to address effectively correct instructional levels
for every student, in every grade level.
Voila – Success!
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
2:34 pm
Debbiedoright,
Not blaming everything on minorities. Its just a fact that minorities score much lower on standardized testing and that southern red states like Bama, Miss., Georgia, Louis, and South Carolina are going to have a substantial drag on their overall testing scores with minority populations of 20% or more. I’m sorry if that hurts your feelings but its just a fact of life.
this just blows my mind
April 28th, 2011
2:36 pm
This school voucher business is complete crap. If you’re going to refund taxes to some people, you have to refund them to everyone. Just b/c you have school-age children doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have to pay school taxes if you decide not to send your children to government schools. What about the people that don’t have school-age children but don’t get a tax refund (these vouchers are tax refunds, plain and simple).
BMDPD
April 28th, 2011
2:39 pm
Let’s instead use the money to finance a system in which 23% of it’s products are flawed.
GFY
April 28th, 2011
2:43 pm
Who said I was a dude? Typical lib mindset…..or lack thereof
GFY
April 28th, 2011
2:44 pm
Blows your mind eh?
what about people that receive a gov’t check who did not pay any taxes? suppose that is fair in lib land also……
The Don
April 28th, 2011
2:47 pm
I have a solution for all….let everyone finance their own children’s education and cease any taxes to cover these costs. We would then find out who truly values an education for their kids and who wants to instead spend the money on malt liquor and lottery tickets.
The Don
April 28th, 2011
2:49 pm
Tell it like it is Thulsa…..nobody wants to hear the truth but rather some feel good story.
this just blows my mind
April 28th, 2011
2:49 pm
GFY,
You’re an idiot. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
And by the way, I’m not a liberal.
AmVet
April 28th, 2011
2:52 pm
“Is Larry “Chipper” Jones on of those “never-served, never-will” people you are talking about?”
No.
Simple answers to simple questions.
Cynthia Who?
April 28th, 2011
2:56 pm
This hard for me to do, but I do not disagree with Jay and testing everyone. However, you didn’t give a reason why the republicans are against it from their point of view. Eventually all the students will have to take the same college entrance exams. Will that not prove who is doing a better job? All these stats are coming from Milwaukee. If we took the same stats here in the city of Atlanta, it would probably be the exact opposite because the APS system is useless.
Left wing management
April 28th, 2011
2:58 pm
GFY: “Who said I was a dude? Typical lib mindset…..or lack thereof”
Is it “lib” to use the word “dude”?
Like I said, what’s a “lib” dude?
Yippee
April 28th, 2011
3:02 pm
@DebbieDoRight
April 28th, 2011
1:24 pm
Heck, there may no longer be any schools if something doesn’t get done about the spending and entitlement problem
“You mean gas subsidies?”
Sure, why not? But the subsidies don’t all go to BIG OIL. We could eliminate all gas subsidies and it would be like spitting in the ocean. Entitlements aren’t the same as subsidies. You heard it here first. How about the corn subsidies for the chopping block. Why in the world would anybody think it wise to pay people to grow corn and then pay then to turn it into ethanol so it could then be mixed with gasoline. We have oil in the ground and growing food to burn as fuel is stupid.
DebbieDoRight
April 28th, 2011
3:18 pm
ahh Doom those mean ole minorities (and some even from the south!), just messing up everything huh?
Here’s a list of the Top 25 Schools in the nation (some are even from the south!); with their minority enrollment. I kept the enrollment percentage for minorities at 25% and above. Enjoy!
No. 21.: Lennox Math Science and Technology Lennox, Calif.
‘ College Readiness Index: 88.6
‘ Quality-Adjusted AP Participation Rate: 86.7%
‘ Enrollment: 472
‘ Minority Enrollment (% of total): 98.5%
No. 25: Loveless Academic Magnet Program H.S. Montgomery, Ala.
‘ College Readiness Index: 86.8
‘ Quality-Adjusted AP Participation Rate: 82.4%
‘ Enrollment: 395
‘ Minority Enrollment (% of total): 26.3%
19. Idea College Preparatory Donna, Texas
‘ College Readiness Index: 88.9
‘ Quality-Adjusted AP Participation Rate: 85.2%
‘ Enrollment: 231
‘ Minority Enrollment (% of total): 93.5%
18. School of Science and Engineering Dallas, Texas
‘ College Readiness Index: 88.9
‘ Quality-Adjusted AP Participation Rate: 85.3%
‘ Enrollment: 396
‘ Minority Enrollment (% of total): 68.2%
16. Benjamin Franklin Senior HS New Orleans, L.A.
‘ College Readiness Index: 90.7
‘ Quality-Adjusted AP Participation Rate: 87.7%
‘ Enrollment: 628
‘ Minority Enrollment (% of total): 29.0%
8. Preuss School UCSD La Jolla, Calif.
‘ College Readiness Index: 97.1
‘ Quality-Adjusted AP Participation Rate: 96.2%
‘ Enrollment: 752
‘ Minority Enrollment (% of total): 71.3%
5. Design and Architectural Senior High Miami, Fla.
‘ College Readiness Index: 97.8
‘ Quality-Adjusted AP Participation Rate: 97.1%
‘ Enrollment: 469
‘ Minority Enrollment (% of total): 67.4%
SPC
April 28th, 2011
3:18 pm
Is the notion here that conservatives are racist, elitist, or don’t support good education?
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
3:32 pm
Debbiedoright,
That’s nice but you’re picking out individual schools and not whole school systems which are far more telling. Let me give you an example. I’m from Montgomery so I know all about Loveless magnet school which is a good school and which you listed above. If you look at the other high schools in Montgomery including my alma mater Jeff Davis high you will see that standardized testing scores are horrendous. Loveless and the pitiful other public Montgomery schools all around it simply proves my point.
GFY
April 28th, 2011
3:33 pm
It depends on what the definition of “is”is……how’s that for a lib answer….worked for your hero
Thulsa Doom
April 28th, 2011
3:35 pm
Debbie,
And don’t take it personally because blacks have always scored lower on standardized testing. I realize as well as you that there are many socio-economic factors that play into those lower scores such as a higher poverty level, higher % of single mother homes, crime, cultural values,etc. that plague black households and result in lower standardized scoring.
The Don
April 28th, 2011
3:35 pm
and I suppose an MBA from the University of Phoenix is the same as one from Duke University, Debbie?
DebbieDoWrong
April 28th, 2011
3:46 pm
Ignore the research in “The Bell Curve”. There is no way the scientific method used by the authors could explain some of the issues today, correct?
TnGelding
April 28th, 2011
3:47 pm
There are always scam artists waiting to take advantage of every well-intentioned government program. Have we no shame? We’re going to have to become a nation of snitches to weed out the crooks and liars. The GOP’s misuse of government funds knows no end.
We need to revamp our entire education system in this age of the information super highway. Why send children off into the dark on those big yellow monsters to be brain-washed by mediocre teachers when you can bring the best educators in the world right into your home? The savings in diesel fuel alone is reason enough to consider it. We can’t afford to build $50 million schools that sit idle 75% of the time and require millions more in M&O annually. Not to mention the huge teacher salaries and pensions.
TnGelding
April 28th, 2011
3:53 pm
Testing is for losers. We need to produce graduates that can communicate and think! But in this case, the comparison is needed to see if the programs are working as designed. And it looks like more scrutiny should be given to the private schools.
DebbieDoWrong
April 28th, 2011
4:01 pm
Maybe it’s the pressure of those standarized tests that we need to get rid of….everyone knows there is no pressure/deadlines whey you get a full time job in a professional firm.
Joe Mama
April 28th, 2011
4:28 pm
PP — “Debbie, call names if you want but you are still a disgrace. To belittle out soldiers is typical for a whacko Liberal.”
I’m a liberal, and I’m a disabled veteran. Be careful with that broad brush there, cowboy.
Debbie, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t slag on the military. It’s true that there are some military job specialties that don’t require a lot of brainpower, but there are also plenty of military jobs that DO require a boatload of smarts.
The Air Force has guys working directly with the space program. The Navy’s got nuclear power plant operators. And the Army and Marine Corps have encrypted satellite communications gear that fits in a rucksack. Stupid people need not apply for any of those jobs.
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
5:40 pm
AmVet, I will call out anybody who disses our Military, on either side. They and we are the reason why we can have this free speach, maybe not always civil, but always free.
poison pen
April 28th, 2011
5:42 pm
Joe Mama, I apologize for the broad brush, she just pissed me off and my fingers went to work before my brain did, not the first time.
Joe Mama
April 28th, 2011
5:54 pm
Apology accepted, pp, and thank you for owning up to your comment. That speaks well of you.
art
April 29th, 2011
6:58 am
if they are the same, but the cost is much less, then it is a better value for the taxpayer. Then there is the matter of a trillion in unfunded pensions that are owed teachers by parents and officials who told me their schools were “free”.. By the way the scores are not the same in most cases that i have seen
Why voucher advocates are allergic to standardized tests « lvsdmovingforward
April 29th, 2011
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[...] Why voucher advocates are allergic to standardized tests. [...]
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April 29th, 2011
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