The ’situational conservatives’ in the Georgia GOP
Georgia Republicans like to tout themselves as true economic conservatives.
They’re not. Not by a long shot.
The core of economic conservatism, also known as laissez faire economics, is faith in a free market. That school of thought holds that if the laws of supply and demand are given free rein, they will distribute goods and services as efficiently and productively as possible.
Under such a theory, government is forbidden from intervening or picking winners; it can’t play favorites. Its role is to create a level playing field upon which individuals and businesses alike can compete, with the most efficient and productive reaping the biggest rewards.
Georgia Republicans do honor that approach in some ways. To individuals in need of help, they preach a sternly libertarian philosophy of “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.” They distrust government programs to aid the unemployed or provide health care to those unable to afford it, and in some cases they seek to dismantle public education in favor of private alternatives. On issues as varied as tort reform and workers rights to consumer protection, they instinctively seek to remove government from any role as mediator between business and consumer and between business and employee.
You’re on your own, in other words. “Laissez faire” — leave it alone.
However, state Republicans are notably unwilling to demand that same degree of discipline and self-reliance from businesses and corporations looking for assistance.
Take, for example, the passage of House Bill 234 in the recent legislative session. Under provisions added to the bill at the last minute and rammed through the process without real public debate, the legislation sets up a system to subsidize certain new tourist attractions.
Under the bill, a new resort or theme park that wins state favor would use the taxing power of the state to collect sales and use tax from its customers, just as other businesses do. But in this case, the business would get to keep all or most of that “tax money.” (Technically, it comes in the form of a refund, but the effect is the same.)
Over a 10-year period, the business could collect and keep taxes amounting to 25 percent of its investment. In other words, the law makes Georgia taxpayers a 25 percent partner in the investment, but with no ownership rights and no profit participation.
Why should government play such a role? As legislators declare in HB 234:
“The General Assembly finds and declares that the general welfare and material well-being of the citizens of this state depend in large measure upon the development of tourism in the state” and that “the inducement of the creation of tourism attraction projects is of paramount importance to the economy of the state.”
That is not economic conservatism. That is not laissez faire economics. It is government interfering in the marketplace by picking winners. Why should government subsidize a new water park at Lake Lanier, for example, that would interfere with existing investments at White Water?
Under the provisions of HB 234, the power to decide which businesses qualify for the break and which do not is invested entirely in the governor. He or she decides whether a company gets a huge tax break — a $100 million investment, for example, could get $25 million in tax breaks, but only if the governor smiles upon the company.
That’s an invitation to corruption, and sooner or later, you just know that invitation will be accepted by somebody.
It also demonstrates that economic conservatism, at least as practiced here in Georgia, applies only to those little people who can’t afford to buy lobbyists or politicians.
– Jay Bookman
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377 comments Add your comment
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
7:49 am
Sociamalism!
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
7:49 am
woohoo!!! firsties!
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
7:54 am
oh, and Jay – you forgot to mention the GOP’s favorite bugaboo!!
MARTA = not worthy of subsidy despite the fact that it contributes to the economy by taking people to/from work and commerce every year
Theme park = totally worthy of subsidy because it will create jobs for a few hundred folks
oy.
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
7:56 am
Take, for example, the passage of House Bill 234 in the recent legislative session. Under provisions added to the bill at the last minute and rammed through the process without real public debate, the legislation sets up a system to subsidize certain new tourist attractions
I promise you if I’m elected you will see the Healthcare on c-span.
When a new bill is coming forward the public will have 5 days to read it and use your input.
Sounds like the Dems wrote this bill and not the Repubs, right Jay!
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
7:58 am
poisson pen – are you saying that health care was NOT debated on c-span? are you saying that the public did NOT have more than a week to read the bill???
if so, I believe that Newtron Gingricheimer would call that “revisionist history”
but, thanks for playing
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:02 am
I thought a Dem was Governor in 1971, that’s when MARTA was formed.
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
8:03 am
And what do the cons do when confronted with this reality. Ooh look, a ducky!
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:03 am
Usuck, yes that’s what I’m saying, which c-span did you watch it on. DUH!
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:03 am
Poisson pen – I’m talking about all the GOPpers who want to end subsidies for it NOW
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:04 am
Usuck, I thought your Queen Pelosi said that you would know what’s in it after it passed. DUH!
stands for decibels
April 26th, 2011
8:06 am
Yep, UnU, I can usually letting a hypocritical sleeping dog lie, but that concerning MARTA funding in light of this latest bill is so grotesque I would be all for kicking it in the nuts.
oh, and congrats to our PP, who took all of 9 minutes to play the “your Obamaistas didn’t put it all on the TeeVee like you promised which makes baby Jesus cry!” card, as I knew it would be.
ty webb
April 26th, 2011
8:06 am
Jay,
Despite the hypocrisy by the republicans, this seems like something you and other libs(progressives, for those too ashamed to use that moniker) could really get behind. Come on…It’s just government “investment”. According to you, that’s what Government is supposed to do.
Mick
April 26th, 2011
8:06 am
Good afternoon usinuk,
I hear there’s going to be a wedding over yonder? No invite for the trumpster? Just another day in paradise, no alligators in bathrooms allowed at this house…
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:06 am
poisson – if that’s what you’re saying, then you’re lying
CSPAN had extensive coverage of the debates
nice try, though
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:08 am
Mick – yep – 2 4-day weekends in a row = loads of people taking T-W-Th off this week … the commute was BLISS this morning!
BlahBlahBlah
April 26th, 2011
8:08 am
“They distrust government programs to aid the unemployed or provide health care to those unable to afford it, and in some cases they seek to dismantle public education in favor of private alternatives”
Because these programs have existed for nearly 50 years now, with billions spent, only to produce a flatline when it comes to results.
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:08 am
Usuck, at what point in time do we quit subsidizing everyone? We do this for the oil companies, the Farmers and many other companies, as I believe Doggone stated a few weeks ago, if a company can’t make it on their own then they should fail.
Normal
April 26th, 2011
8:08 am
Good morning all y’all…I’m still speepin’ in…
today’s funnies…
http://news.icanhascheezburger.com/2011/04/25/political-pictures-barack-obama-2012-election-the-year-of-the-landslide/
and…
http://icanhascheezburger.com/2011/04/25/funny-pictures-gifs-bobcat-dylan/
stands for decibels
April 26th, 2011
8:09 am
CSPAN had extensive coverage of the debates
I think they imagined it was going to be some kind of game show, with Pat Sajak as the MC.
Normal
April 26th, 2011
8:09 am
Poison,
Did your mother teach you any good manners?
Haywood Jablome
April 26th, 2011
8:09 am
MARTA = making sure people are thoroughly beaten and robbed before getting to/from work.
Ride at your own peril. The “T” is for Thugs.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:09 am
poisson – yay! milk at $15/gal for EVERYbody!
stands for decibels
April 26th, 2011
8:10 am
if a company can’t make it on their own then they should fail.
pp, name me one industrialized country with whom we compete that doesn’t subsidize mass transit.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:10 am
Normal – 8:09 – no.
this has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:11 am
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:06 am
poisson – if that’s what you’re saying, then you’re lying
CSPAN had extensive coverage of the debates
nice try, though
You are the liar, it wasn’t on c-span like your Obama promised, What are you smoking over there?
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2011
8:12 am
I personally don’t think there should be subsidies for anything. However, having said that, I do understand giving subsidies to certain companies to attract them to the state. I don’t agree with the governor having the power to decide which companies get the subsidies though. That is an invitation for corruption, and I don’t think it is a matter of if/who will be the first, I think we can just assume that Deal will figure out a way to benefit himself from it. And then we can assume that every governor that comes after him will do the same. If you want to subsidize hotels or theme parks, or auto manufacturers or whomever, fine, but do it equally across the board, don’t pick and choose. I think the economic benefits of attracting the businesses offsets the lost revenue from the taxes that aren’t collected.
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:12 am
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:09 am
poisson – yay! milk at $15/gal for EVERYbody!
Like Granny, said yesterday, I’m responsible and prepared for it.
Mick
April 26th, 2011
8:12 am
Can’t we all just get along?
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 26th, 2011
8:13 am
Georgia“Republicans like to tout themselves as true economic conservatives.They’re not. Not by a long shot.”
And this can be said pretty much across the board.
In terms of social policy, foreign policy, the environment, law and order, domestic policy, etc, etc, etc…
Replace the word conservative with corporatist and you have what these spineless spendaholics truly are.
Historic American conservatives would puke if they could come back and see how these frauds have hijacked that word and sold off our sovereignty to the highest bidder…
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
8:13 am
Perhaps some Georgia businessman will build us an ark.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:13 am
“MARTA = making sure people are thoroughly beaten and robbed before getting to/from work.”
ohgoodgod, I used to ride it all the time when I lived in town – ride it when I’m home visiting – NEVER saw anything bad/criminal
martin the calvinist
April 26th, 2011
8:14 am
Jay, remember this, most of those Republicans in the Georgia House are converted Democrats. I’d guess that maybe 25% of those Republicans are truly conservative. That’s my take on it anyway. I don’t think Government should be picking winners or losers in an economy. I also don’t think it’s the governments job to give help to those who are in need. I really believe that task should fall on private charities. No wonder the state and federal gov’t has such a hard time with deficits!
Normal
April 26th, 2011
8:15 am
Well now that I read the essay, this ought to be a short thread. It’s just showing what most of us already know…The Republican Party, at both State and local levels pander to the the money and not to “we the people”. There is no defense for this and it’s shameful.
Jay
April 26th, 2011
8:15 am
Ty, you can’t even bring yourself to criticize them for it, can you? Only by attributing it to the Dems can you bring yourself to do so.
And I see Poison is trying to wrestle the issue onto safe, familiar ground, where he has a pre-supplied rebuttal — “well well well … the Democrats didn’t let us see the health-care bill!”
In reality, there’s no comparison. In this bill, the amendment in question was quietly tacked onto another bill and brought before the Senate, where most senators weren’t told about the change and thought they were voting only on the original bill. They didn’t learn about it until hours after the bill had passed.
In the House, the amended version was originally rejected, until House Speaker David Ralston forced a vote to reconsider and then twisted enough arms to get it passed by the minimum number of votes.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:15 am
poisson – “You are the liar, it wasn’t on c-span like your Obama promised, What are you smoking over there?”
oh, but it was – sorry, buddy – you’ve read too many blogs rather than actually, you know, educated yourself
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2011
8:15 am
USinUK – did you not hear about the beatings that took place last week or the week before on MARTA? I’m not saying they are typical, but they do happen. It doesn’t feel safe to ride except during rush hour or the middle of the day anymore.
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:15 am
Stands, does that make it right?
We subsidize the oil companies and have been for around 50 years so I guess your ok with Exxon making 10 Billion dollars in 8 weeks this year, I hope your happy with $4 or $5 gas as a lot of poor people cannot afford it.
ty webb
April 26th, 2011
8:18 am
UsinUK,
just the latest: reported one that is.
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2011/04/arrests-in-marta-attack-on-delta-workers.html
Give a man a fish....
April 26th, 2011
8:18 am
And he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish.
And he will never work again.
Republicans giving fish and discounted bumper-car rides at the cost of the taxpayer. Disingenuous commies!
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:19 am
Mick
April 26th, 2011
8:12 am
Can’t we all just get along?
Nah, let’s all get on the Marta tonight and sing Kumbuya.
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2011
8:19 am
poison – Even with $5 a gallon gas, Exxon is only making about $0.35 a gallon roughly. The government is taking way more than that, and they’ve decided they aren’t getting enough. Especially when the sheeple won’t pay attention and will just blame Exxon or BP or Chevron or whomever for the gas prices going up when the new state gas tax kicks in on the 1st. Clever to do it on a Sunday when nobody will be watching the morning news.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 26th, 2011
8:19 am
Jay, are you defending conservatism, or just bashing Republicans?
I also noted Mile Luckovich displaying his new-found concern for corporate profits today.
I guess when you’re a Democrat and we’ve got $1.5 trillion deficits every year, $4 gas, three wars, and 9% unemployment, and a debt ceiling problem, this is what you do–distract.
Idiot Messiah: Failure.
Jay
April 26th, 2011
8:20 am
I do find it interesting that the MARTA case has drawn such attention, when we have road-rage killings — you know, actual downright murders — seemingly every two weeks or so.
One is accepted as yeah, that stuff happens. And one is considered a broad indictment of the safety and sanity of the particular transportation mode involved.
Good little liberal
April 26th, 2011
8:22 am
“It is government interfering in the marketplace by picking winners. ”
Bwa-ha-ha-ha. And this is the administration that has given unions preferential treatment at every turn. It is the POLICY of this administration to give companies preferential treatment.
GE?
Jay
April 26th, 2011
8:22 am
L’il Barry, do you have problems responding to something in which you have not yet been given regurgitated rebuttals?
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:23 am
Jay
April 26th, 2011
8:20 am
I do find it interesting that the MARTA case has drawn such attention, when we have road-rage killings — you know, actual downright murders — seemingly every two weeks or so.
One is accepted as yeah, that stuff happens. And one is considered a broad indictment of the safety and sanity of the particular transportation mode involved.
Try riding the public trans system in Detroit and let us know how it went.
Jay
April 26th, 2011
8:23 am
And Good Little Liberal joins the “talk about something else” crowd.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:23 am
ty and (ir)Rational – as (ir) noted, that’s an exception, hardly the rule
that’s like saying that driving is insafe and you’ll never get in your car because of road rage
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
8:23 am
Why we still can’t let the bankers off the hook:
The banks traded for their own interests directly against the interests of their clients. Goldman harnessed its proprietary trading power to go short on the subprime market. It held a $13 billion short position at one point. At the same time, it aggressively marketed the very securities it believed would founder. It knowingly sold junk to its clients so Goldman could prosper on the other side of the trade.
http://www.slate.com/id/2292070/
Good little liberal
April 26th, 2011
8:23 am
USinUK
Are you really saying that all of the debate by our government was on C-Span and not just the polished, civil votes?
You have got to be kidding me.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 26th, 2011
8:24 am
Vesting the power to grant a taxbreak in the governor is just plain foolish.
Mary Elizabeth
April 26th, 2011
8:24 am
When Georgia’s legislators meet in August regarding redistricting, according to the AJC, Gov. Deal may have the taxing of Georgians brought up, also. Georgia’s seniors presently have a break in not having to pay income tax in Ga. on the first $35,000. of their retired income. This could change in August. I do not mind paying my fair share of taxes as a senior for the “common good”; however, I want to do so with my eyes wide open. When the legislators award subsidies and tax breaks to corporations, I don’t want to be used – as a humble retired public servant – to subsidize large money interests when raising my taxes would hurt me. I do not buy into the ideological thinking that – as a retired teacher and public servant – my contributions to Georgia’s long ranged economic health have been any less significant than that of big business.
The fact is that some of our state legislative leaders regularly attend Republican think tanks nationally and they are connected – in policy decisions in Georgia – to what are policy decisions being made in other Republican dominated states. (I state the example of Republicans, only because Republicans are in power in Ga. presently.) Most of these states’ leaders – in Georgia and otherwise – are trying to implement a definite ideological agenda that
supports corporate interests, wants smaller government basically when it matches a conservative social agenda such as dismantling the health care law, dismantling Medicare and Medicaid, and privatizing Social Security, and have tax policies that trickle up (and do not trickle down). The wealthy will reap the rewards, the middle and working classes, not so much.
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2011
8:24 am
Jay – I think the difference between those two things can be found in the media. I typically watch the news every morning and don’t hear about that many (or really any/enough to register) road rage murders, but the story on MARTA was everywhere. I hear about murders every morning, but they don’t show them as being road rage related. I do remember some road rage violence, and it gets reported, but not usually to the same extent. That is just my perception, which could be flawed, or I could just be out of the room when they’re talking about these murders, but then I think I would see them in the AJC if I missed them on the TV.
ty webb
April 26th, 2011
8:25 am
Jay,
No I do consider them hypocrits. I also referred to them as “republicans” ,because “conservatives” they surely aren’t. Seems you are only opposed to the hypocrisy. My only question is why does that matter? Libs get what they want, “investment”. Seems you are only taking issue with republican talking out of both sides of their mouths, and are forgetting that their governing like democrats. You should be happy.
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:25 am
I’m waiting for Tucker to write about this today, Why the AJC keeps 2 people on board who write about the same topic almost everyday is still amazing to me.
Mick
April 26th, 2011
8:25 am
poison
I wasn’t referring to marta, just blogside manners, which you severely lack….
Jay
April 26th, 2011
8:25 am
Detroit, Poison?
What on earth does that have to do with anything? Detroit? What is it that you’re REALLY trying to say?
I ride MARTA almost daily and have done so for more than 20 years. I guarantee you that anybody who has driven the interstates that long to work has had many more close calls than I have had.
Good little liberal
April 26th, 2011
8:26 am
Ater two years of spending like a drunken sailor, Obama is now planning his campaign based on cutting back on spending.
Is anyone dumb enough to still believe anything this clown says?
larry
April 26th, 2011
8:27 am
I wonder what Ralston and Deal will get out of this bill? I also read that former Braves manager Bobby Cox and current Braves manager Fredi Gonzalas are supposed to be investors in a sports theme park up near Cartersville. They will be benefiting from this bill from what i have read . Is this true ?
Paul
April 26th, 2011
8:27 am
One of my refrains has been there’s really no such thing as a completely free market, only varying degrees of government manipulation (and yes, AmVet, we can insert ‘corporate’ there as well) and that people who argued there actually was were floating in the clouds of theory, separated from reality.
Based on this thread, I have to modify that.
The ‘there really is a really free market’ types are separated from both theory AND reality.
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 26th, 2011
8:28 am
Haywood, just took my 85 year old mom down to the Airport on MARTA. The ride there and back could not have been better. Easy, inexpensive, no parking issues. Smarta.
But if you have the kind of karma that you refer to, here’s to hoping you have lots of problem in public!
And now that one of the 15 most corrupt US Congressmen, Crooked Deal, is back in Georgia again, he’s just continuing his legacy of bribes, payoffs, favoritism and taking care of his equally crooked cronies.
Well done, fake conservatives…
Jay
April 26th, 2011
8:28 am
No Ty. Liberals do want taxpayer investment in things such as schools, roads, transit systems, water systems — public infrastructure. Taking taxpayer money to invest in private property — with no ownership in return — is something else entirely.
Public money in public infrastructure, vs. public money in private enterprise. You do get the distinction, right?
Paul
April 26th, 2011
8:28 am
Welcome back, USinUK
Enjoying the calm of the wedding prep?
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:29 am
GLL – not ALL of the debate – just as there is never ALL of the debate on ANY legislation (including the budget) – but, unlike PP’s position, there WAS healthcare debate coverage on CSPAN.
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:29 am
Mary, well written, and you are correct. I don’t mind paying my fair share either, I also think that the 45% of households that don’t pay need to pay, then let’s see where we are.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 26th, 2011
8:29 am
Your column today reminds me of the religiophobe libbtards whining about what Jesus would do regarding handouts or the environment.
Jay, you don’t have standing to be criticizing how faithfully conservatives are to whatever you imagine their ideals to be. Your concerns will be duly noted.
Good little liberal
April 26th, 2011
8:30 am
Jay
Somebody has to talk about it. You sure are avoiding the obvious problems.
And speaking of road rage, remember the Roto Rooter shooting a couple of years ago. The man was at large and every single TV and radio station gave his complete description except that fact that he was Black.
Atlanta at its finest.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:30 am
Hi Paul! yes, I am enjoying the calm of olks taking the 3-for-11 deal (taking 3 days off this week and getting 2 long weekends on either end) – the commute to work this morning was fantastic!
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2011
8:30 am
Jay – that’s possible, I personally have been involved in two hit-and-runs on the interstate, as well as numerous other incidents, but the perception is that driving is safer than riding public transportation in Atlanta. I’m not saying it truly is, and I would rather sit on a bus for an hour than drive, at least on the bus I could read or something, it just isn’t convenient for me to do so. I don’t know, the reputation MARTA has for being inefficient and unsafe is what keeps ridership down. That is my opinion, but I think there are plenty of people like me that share in that opinion.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
8:31 am
Conservatives don’t really believe in free markets do they? No, they want special treatment when it involves their own interests – tax breaks, subsidies.
But, ohh, they will rail against socialism all day long because they really don’t understand the definition.
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:31 am
US, no matter how many times you say it, it still won’t be true. Obama promised it 8 times and it never happened. Maybe c-span talked about it for 30 minutes but it wasn’t the way Obama promised it and you know that.
Haywood Jablome
April 26th, 2011
8:32 am
But at least private out-sourcing instead of using the incompetent government workers is such a huge success – especially for fixing the streets.
Government can’t do nothing right. Private enterprise always does stuff better. Just axe a republican.
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/audit-shows-why-atlanta-924884.html?cxtype=rss_news
stands for decibels
April 26th, 2011
8:32 am
At the risk of feeding the strays…
Stands, does that make it right?
Given the immense economic benefit a metro area enjoys from a comprehensive transit system, absolutely.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ohgoodgod, I used to ride it all the time when I lived in town
Someone with a bit more free time than I have at the moment might want to research the passenger-mile mortality rates of Atlanta metro car commuters versus those of MARTA riders.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:32 am
Poisson – “Maybe c-span talked about it for 30 minutes”
nope. you really don’t know what you’re talking about.
thanks for the affirmation
Call it like it is
April 26th, 2011
8:33 am
Now, I just want to make sure I’m reading this right Jay. Your upset because the Rep’s are giving tax breaks to companies that might bring more money into the state and more jobs. Interesting concept. I wonder if it has ever been done before by anyone else. “BMW plant in South Carolina, Benz plant in Alabama.” I mean you have really turned on a light for me here. States giving money to business’s to draw in jobs and more money. So you say the democrats have never done this just the Republicans…….Hmmmmmmmm
larry
April 26th, 2011
8:34 am
And as far as MARTA goes, i ride it every time i go downtown or to a Braves game. I have had no problems and i enjoy the ride.
But i guess we can not subsidize it because it would not benefit any politicians.
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:34 am
Finn, does that include the 1,100 groups and companies that got passes on Obamacare for a few years?
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 26th, 2011
8:34 am
“I’m waiting for Tucker to write about this today, Why the AJC keeps 2 people on board who write about the same topic almost everyday is still amazing to me.”
Does anyone else see the unintended irony in this?
“…45% of households that don’t pay…”
And yes, I have constantly read, right on this forum, where the hyper-informed among the right wing, who’s proper outrage is NOT over the very poor doing so, but the nearly 5 million households that make somewhere between $50,000 and more than $1 million. The vast majority of that group — 4.3 million — make between $50,000 and $100,000. Another 485,000 make between $100,000 and $500,000. And the remaining 18,000 make $500,000 or more.
Those are the parasites that you cons are endlessly bitching about the MOST, right?
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
8:34 am
You do get the distinction, right?
You really want their answer on that one?
Good little liberal
April 26th, 2011
8:34 am
USinUK
Do you believe that all of the important parts of the debate were aired? The entire thing smelled to high heaven. It still does with companies and states being allowed to opt out. Can I opt out?
Paul
April 26th, 2011
8:35 am
It IS interesting how the ‘economic conservative’ crowd parrots the ‘government bad, business good’ lines (when they aren’t saying ‘but what about Obama?).
I’ve wondered why that is. I can only think they ignore large corporations, shareholder-owned companies and the like and instead hold a view of the Koch brothers or some others (maybe even Gates, but he’s kinda liberal) and think “that’s the dream… that could be me someday…. it’d be almost all mine and ain’t no one gonna take it from me.”
Leastwise, that’s the only thing that seems to make sense in such a nonsensical view of the world.
stands for decibels
April 26th, 2011
8:36 am
Do you believe that all of the important parts of the debate were aired?
He used the special parts to make his robot friends.
later, kids.
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:36 am
Usuck, let us know the dates if you are so sure of yourself. I would but because it wasn’t on tv I can’t.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 26th, 2011
8:37 am
Jay, since you seem to need help with column ideas lately, how about one on Obama’s opposition to gay “marriage” and how that is manifested in his official actions?
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2011
8:37 am
Call it like it is – Of course the Democrats have never done anything like that. Or maybe they have, but I don’t think that is the point. And Jay, for once I agree with what you’ve said. The point is, that these so called Republicans, and I don’t believe they actually are, are doing something that their principles and constituents should be against. It isn’t the government’s job to pick the winners and losers in the private sector. But that is what this bill has given the governor the power to do. If Deal wasn’t completely corrupt, he would line item veto that provision out of the bill, and if that wasn’t possible veto the entire bill and force them to start over in August. But we all know that won’t happen.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:38 am
GLL – hey, I still think that it should be a single-payer system, so I don’t like it much, either – just for different reasons.
if you don’t realize by now that the “important parts” of EVERY bill happen behind closed doors, then I won’t tell you what I know about Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
8:38 am
Stands, As Pelosi said, we will know what was in it after it will pass, what part of that do you and Usuck not understand.
I’m outta here, it’s like trying to talk to trees.
Corey
April 26th, 2011
8:40 am
Poison Pen, do you have any idea of the number of committees and subcommittees that were involved in the healthcare overhaul debate? Can you imagine the logistical nightmare this would have presented to any media outlet rushing to and from this and that committee’s debate?
Peadawg
April 26th, 2011
8:40 am
“Now, I just want to make sure I’m reading this right Jay. Your upset because the Rep’s are giving tax breaks to companies that might bring more money into the state and more jobs. Interesting concept.”
My thinking is Jay is against it because Republicans are doing it. I think he’d be just peachy with it if Governor Barnes was in charge and doing this.
Normal
April 26th, 2011
8:40 am
” it’s like trying to talk to trees.”
You really should try hugging them…such warm fuzzies, don’t cha know…
Paul
April 26th, 2011
8:41 am
morning, larry
What will Ralston and Deal get out of this?
Haven’t followed them like Georgians have, but an educated guess is this, in one form or another:
http://tinyurl.com/3lzocfd
MiltonMan
April 26th, 2011
8:41 am
Comparable to Obozo picking winners (waivers from his ObamaCare) & losers (those who are forced to buy into the program).
Jay, the guy you favored as governor – good ‘ole Rat Roy Barnes used toll money from 400 to purchase Atlantic Station. Where was your concern then? How about the Rat & his grand ‘ole Northern Arc proposal that forced home owners to sell their houses to the state?
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 26th, 2011
8:42 am
Paul
April 26th, 2011
8:35 am
I’ve wondered why that is.
————
Perhaps it’s a recognition of the fact that it is free enterprise and capitalism that made America great, not big government.
Don’t you sometimes claim to be a free market guy? I wonder why that is.
larry
April 26th, 2011
8:43 am
When did Mercedes Benz and BMW become tourist attractions ?
These tax breaks are for developers and investors who build tourist attractions.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 26th, 2011
8:44 am
AmVet — I agree the irony is hilarious.
Talking to trees?…. I thought I felt the hot air blowing through the leaves.
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 26th, 2011
8:46 am
As for talking to trees, one cannot do so when they use bush talk!
OK, off to be both a capitalist AND socialist today. (This gets SO confusing)
Gonna make some dough and then go see the federally run incompetents down at the VA Hospital.
Be good to them, but as stands cautions, do NOT feed the strays…
larry
April 26th, 2011
8:46 am
Paul
April 26th, 2011
8:41 am
LOL! I was just thinking that the might corrupt one (Deal) will try to turn that failed Bass Pro Shops store for sell up the road from me into a tourist attraction.
Hey , Ladies and Gents. This is what Wilder Outdoors looks like. Oooooooo, look at that fake bear!!
Paul
April 26th, 2011
8:47 am
lil
I believe I’ve made the distinction there are no truly free markets. The rest is finding a proper balance.
Government didn’t make America great?
If it wasn’t for big government, America would not be here (expansion west to cover most of the continent, then using the government to fight two big, big wars to preserve America).
Mighty Righty
April 26th, 2011
8:48 am
I almost agree. States have been giving tax subsidies to attract business and employment for its’ citizens for as long as I can remember. This is done by both Republican and Democrat governors. However, government must be careful to not favor one business over another. In this case, it seems to me the state of Georgia would not be competing with another state for a tourist attraction but I would have to know more about what choices the business has and what are the economic impact of building or not building the facility. A few years ago, a retailor who also did a large mail order business wanted locate to Georgia. The deal was contingent upon the State and County waving sales tax on the mail order portion of sales. The State/County refused to exempt mail order sales from the tax. The company, instead built their store in Chattanooga. The loss for Georgia was 200 jobs and the revenue those employees would have generated for the state as well as the sales tax on local sales. That decision by the State/County was plain stupid. So, before being too critical about some of these decisions, all of the facts surrounding the decision must be known.
Good little liberal
April 26th, 2011
8:49 am
USinUK
So what Obama was promising was just what always happens. Hmmm. Sounds sort of dishonest to me.
A lot of smart, good people like you still believe in this guy. First his entire original platform was insulting to anyone with an IQ above 80 and now he is insisting that he plans to save the country by cutting spending in his second term. Why didn’t he just not spend like crazy during his first term?
It’s not that he is incompetent. It’s not that he has all the leadership ability of a college professor (which is none) It’s that so many people still believe the guy.
Stuff like this: Obama Picks Jeffrey Immelt, GE CEO, To Run New Jobs-Focused Panel As GE Sends Jobs Overseas, Pays Little In Taxes
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/obama-picks-jeffrey-immel-ge-jobs-overseas_n_812502.html
It’s so obvious, it’s on the Huffington Post.
For God’s sake. Support another democrat. This guy is killing us.
Have a good day. Late night last night and a long day ahead of me today. Miles to go before I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep.
MiltonMan
April 26th, 2011
8:49 am
USinUK – too wrapped up with the upcoming “royal” wedding to understand that MARTA is currently subsidized by a penny tax from Fulton & DeKalb taxpayers. MARTA is so inefficient that outlying counties like Cobb & Gwinnett want nothing to do with them. Only Clayton, whose mass transportation effort was a total failure, wants in on this scheme. Yes, let’s continue subsidizing this garbage system.
AmWay – Republicans are spendaholics??? Good to see your man Obozo being the thrift master that even Clark Howard is proud of.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 26th, 2011
8:51 am
No, government didn’t make America great. People wanting a better life made America great, given the freedom from government meddling that we see in socialist and fascist states. Too bad the Idiot Messiah has us headed in that same failed direction.
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
8:52 am
The cons appear to be pulling out every lie they’ve spread for the last few years today. Desperation doth become them.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 26th, 2011
8:53 am
Perhaps it’s a recognition of the fact that it is free enterprise and capitalism that made America great, not big government.
Oooo can we get an essay on what makes America great? Please be sure not to mention National Parks like Yellowstone, Yosemite and the Grand Canyon and set aside by the US Governtment. Don’t mention Hoover Dam because that was built with government money. Don’t mention the purple mountain’s majesty. Don’t mention the space program because that was government money. Keep it focused on free enterprise and capitalism. The Robber Barons, the Enrons, slavery.
ty webb
April 26th, 2011
8:53 am
Jay,
yeah I do know the difference. Just wondering if you have always opposed “public money in private enterprise”. I guess I could scour the internets, but why don’t you just give us examples of other poutrages from you. Bonus points for instances where you criticized democrats for doing it.
Mighty Righty
April 26th, 2011
8:54 am
Paul, this country was great inspite of the governemnt. I say “was” because the present government has caused us to decline. Hopefully we will be able to survive the current government.
Mary Elizabeth
April 26th, 2011
8:54 am
poison pen @ 8:29
Thank you. However, you have read often here, I am sure, as I have, that those 45% do in fact pay taxes, just like you and I, but because their incomes are low, they may not pay income tax, but they do pay into Social Security, and consumer taxes of all kinds, among other taxes.
You are probably not a multi-millionarie, as I am not (nor did I aspire to be), but the subconscious motiviation behind the thinking of heavy-handed social conservatives – that everyone should keep basically most of their income and that taxes should not be based on a progressive tax rate that has been operative in our nation for decades – is that those who make the most money are the biggest contributors to the success of our nation and they should not have to give significant amounts of their money in taxes to be “redistributed” to the less successful working class.
This thinking goes back to a gut level philosophy that comes out in policy. It is the same philosophy held by the slave owners of another era (sorry, josif, but the example fits here), the oil barons of the beginning of the last century, and the new wealth accruers of the past 40 years with their Ayn Rand policies. I, on the other hand, see that the slaves – with their own hands – built the wealth of the plantation owners, that the impoverished workers of the Industrial Age built the industries – with their own hands – of the oil and corporate barons, and that public servants have built this nation’s infrastructure and future by their collective contributions. Every person counts – no one is “better” than any another. Mine is a totally different philosophy than the libertarians such as the Koch Brothers. In my worldview, everyone contributes to the success of this nation – in his or her own way – with his or her own talents.
Besides, I don’t want to see America become the “Wall Street” frankenstein of those movies with Michael Douglas. News last week was that the Koch Brothers were subtly – or not so subtly – coercing their employees to vote the Republican tickets. Think about what that means.
Paul
April 26th, 2011
8:54 am
out for a while -
Yippee
April 26th, 2011
8:54 am
Put on another pot of bile. Another day, another slugfest. Yippee!!!!!!!!!!
JKL2
April 26th, 2011
8:54 am
And now that one of the 15 most corrupt US Congressmen, Crooked Deal, is back in Georgia again, he’s just continuing his legacy of bribes, payoffs, favoritism and taking care of his equally crooked cronies.
Sounds like a certain Kenyan-American President I didn’t vote for…Funny how this story seems similar to obamacare.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
8:55 am
Leave it to Jay to start judging the GOP. He should take a harder look at the left and their leaders first.
Where's My Party?
April 26th, 2011
8:56 am
Sounds like somebody is going to get a new theme park. Shameful legislation.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
8:57 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/26/us/26pensions.html?_r=1&hp
Oh, look, cutting back on benefits again. Let’s make sure the wealthy get tax cuts – I know you rich conservative bloggers are all for that.
Oh, wait, you aren’t rich? You just vote Republican so you can help out the wealthy so maybe they will one day take away all your benefits?
How smart is that?
Don't Tread
April 26th, 2011
8:57 am
Government should regulate enough to keep the fraudsters at bay, then get out of the way.
But regardless of which party is in power, some players in the marketplace have to be “more equal” than others. (It all depends on who financed the campaign.)
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
8:57 am
“Why didn’t he just not spend like crazy during his first term? ”
because if he didn’t, the recession would have continued for at least another 2 quarters
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
8:58 am
He should take a harder look at the left and their leaders first.
Why should we criticize the left first? Cause you conservatives can’t stomach the truth? Go watch your Fox News – they will tell you only what you want to hear. None of that bad reality stuff.
Yahtzee
April 26th, 2011
8:59 am
Jay, you missed a perfectly good opportunity to discuss how Obama is picking winners and losers in our “free market” system as well, like GE for instance not paying any taxes. Why are you making this one sided?
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
8:59 am
Aye Captain, the RepubliKlingons are diverting all the warped power they can find to their deflector shields.
Senior Citizen Kane
April 26th, 2011
8:59 am
I understand the premise here but the problem arises if those businesses go to states that ARE willing to give such tax breaks or put their building plans on hold altogether. And in that case you get zero tax revenue and zero jobs.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 26th, 2011
8:59 am
Jay has accepted his own “mission impossible”–distracting people from the huge problems his Idiot Messiah has created or is ignoring. Look for repeats of this episode all through the election season, as there is very little positive to be said of the current regime in Washington.
jm
April 26th, 2011
9:01 am
Well Jay, since you’re not an economic conservative, I don’t know what your objection is.
That said, I think the bill is ridiculous.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:01 am
“as there is very little positive to be said of the current regime in Washington”
I agree. Boehner sucks.
carlosgvv
April 26th, 2011
9:01 am
That is a good description of what laissez faire means to the Republicans. It means something else to Big Business, like returning to their good old days of 12 hour work days, 6 day work weeks, no vacations, no overtime pay, no sick leave,no holidays, no insurance and no workman’s comp. It any of you really think your good elected Republicans would not let that happen, you are credulous beyond belief.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
9:02 am
That school of thought holds that if the laws of supply and demand are given free rein, they will distribute goods and services as efficiently and productively as possible.
Again, the GOP seems to have a case of in theory it sounds good, but in reality it doesn’t work out so well. As Paul would say, theory vs. reality.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
9:03 am
“like returning to their good old days of 12 hour work days, 6 day work weeks, no vacations, no overtime pay, no sick leave,no holidays, no insurance and no workman’s comp.”
I know many folks who live that life now.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
9:03 am
Hopefully we will be able to survive the current government.
We survived an idiot President who had 6 years of a Conservative congress to ruin the country, so I think we will do ok.
larry
April 26th, 2011
9:04 am
carlosgov,
You forgot no child labor laws.
Good little liberal
April 26th, 2011
9:04 am
So now the argument from libs is that since it’s a theme park that will hire hundreds and be a boom to the local economy, that its different than giving incentives to other kinds of companies that hire hundreds and give much less of a boom to local economies.
Maybe they should just give incentives to companies that liberals approve of.
Hey libs. Can we get a list of your approved companies? It would save a lot of time.
Peadawg
April 26th, 2011
9:05 am
“I agree. Boehner sucks.”
Ya and Skeletor was soooo much better as speaker of the house!
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:05 am
carlos – 9:01 – but, ask any of the rightwingers here, it’s your CHOICE to work that way – if you don’t like it, then start your own business! be your own CEO!
oy
Yahtzee
April 26th, 2011
9:05 am
everybody wins in a free market system..it is the most efficient way to distribute goods…the proof is in our history
i can’t say the same for socialism or communism, the proof is in other countries histories and it’s never worked
Mighty Righty
April 26th, 2011
9:06 am
Finn McCool-wishing you have wealth will not make you wealthy. Accumulating wealth is hard work which is why so few liberals are wealthy. It is next to impossible to become wealthy drawing unemployment, welefare and working at McDonalds. Back to the subject. When the Democrats subsidize business they do it big time, think GM, Chrysler, Banks, Unions, and other political contributors.
Good little liberal
April 26th, 2011
9:06 am
Finn McCool
Ruined the country.
Oh yes, I remember. Our problems were about pictures from abu grabe and wiretapping phone calls to terrorists.
How did we survive that?
THE TRUTH
April 26th, 2011
9:08 am
Nothing hear, just Jay and his followers doing their daily, I don’t like the GOP rants. So boring, I’m gonna take my ball and not play, because I know it really irks you when you don’t have anyone to argue with.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
9:08 am
“So now the argument from libs is that since it’s a theme park that will hire hundreds and be a boom to the local economy, that its different than giving incentives to other kinds of companies that hire hundreds and give much less of a boom to local economies.”
Um, no, that’s not the argument. If you actually read Jay’s column, you might have got that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“everybody wins in a free market system..it is the most efficient way to distribute goods…the proof is in our history
i can’t say the same for socialism or communism, the proof is in other countries histories and it’s never worked
Oy. Yet another example of thinking in absolutes and not seeing the big picture.
Mighty Righty
April 26th, 2011
9:08 am
Hey Finn, whats the difference between Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama?
larry
April 26th, 2011
9:09 am
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:05 am
Look at me I’m self-employed
I love to work at nothing all day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCIUf8eYPqA
Jay
April 26th, 2011
9:11 am
Yahtzee, I wrote more than a year ago about GE not paying taxes — this is not a new development, and in fact predates Obama’s presidency. But more than a year ago, you conservatives had not yet been indoctrinated to associate GE with Obama, so the fact that it paid no taxes was actually applauded back then by most on the right.
You know — corporations shouldn’t have to pay taxes anyway?
NOW you find it objectionable? Why now and not then? Why the anger at GE and not at other corporations doing the same thing?
Please … explain. This ought to be fascinating.
That previous post: http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2010/04/07/exxonmobil-35-billion-in-profit-zero-in-corporate-taxes/
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:11 am
larry –
thanks for that!
Yahtzee
April 26th, 2011
9:11 am
bosch- and what is the “big picture”?
THE TRUTH
April 26th, 2011
9:12 am
Good little liberal
April 26th, 2011
9:04 am
Beefore I go, I thought I would raise my hand and answer this one.
The Libs approve list are the ones that are union run.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:12 am
Jay – 9:11 – shall I pop some popcorn for this?
Donovan
April 26th, 2011
9:12 am
Hmm…let’s see. The ecomomy is still bad and employment-building needs a shot in the arm, or should I say, incentive. Whenever a Democrat smells “tax incentive” the whole initiative is bad. However, the Obamination schemes of slush fund stimulus and TARP initiatives for the poor down-trodden people are praised as good. Enough with the communist theory and propaganda. Legitimate initiatives to spur employment growth is worth while in this case as opposed to the failed incentive policies of the Democrat’s snake oil scams we have seen with this current regime. Mr. Bookman’s feeble attempt to link economic theory to his political argument is a stretch. I seriously doubt that he was an economics major in college, let alone a participant in minoring in economic theory. His degree in liberal journalism does not allow for the study of ecomomics other than a liberal dosing of economic propaganda and socailized commerce. Tax incentives? You bet! It fits right in with the theory of tried and true ecomomic growth. Rhetoric demeaning such tried and true incentive initiatives makes the orator look like a simple hack. For anyone who follows the logic of Mr. Bookman, I have to say, “how’s that Hope & Change working out for you”?
larry
April 26th, 2011
9:13 am
I wonder if i declare myself CEO, can i get the tax breaks?
jonas
April 26th, 2011
9:14 am
Jay- can you provide the blog advertisers Usins email address- it would be more efficient use of their dollars.
See- capitalism and the free market at work.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:14 am
Once again here goes the left talking about GE paying no taxes and not recognizing the lower class americans that also pay 0 in taxes.
Hey Jay, isnt GE one of those companies that you are trying to get to add jobs for the american economy? Wont those jobs help unemployment, create taxes and help Obama?
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:15 am
Larry….depends on the company, the number you employ and your expenses.
larry
April 26th, 2011
9:15 am
I also wonder if Tom Graves and Chip Rogers are going to turn that hotel they owe money on into a tourist attraction?
Jay
April 26th, 2011
9:15 am
It’s just fascinating, USinUK, how they retreat back to regurgitating their indoctrination: GE, health care, MARTA, etc., rather than confront the reality of what their own leaders are doing to them. A mass transit system, for example, has to survive on its own, with no subsidies.
But a private theme park paying minimum wage to most of its employees — that deserves a 25 percent taxpayer subsidy! That the governor gets to award or deny at his choosing!
“but but but …. Obama! The Rev. Wright! The whitey tape!”
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:16 am
jonas – nah – that shark ad is freaking me out.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
9:17 am
Bonus points for instances where you criticized democrats for doing it.
Yeah, Jay, help the conservatives out. They don’t know how to do their own work.
“It’s too hard. Give us a tax break or a subsidy to do it.”
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:17 am
jay – I’m pickin up what you’re layin down –
consistency isn’t their strong suit
larry
April 26th, 2011
9:17 am
larry’s blogging company, employs 1, declares expenses at 5 million. Of course i can write those off.
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
9:18 am
Cons do not come here to post so they can then be asked to explain their rants. They must stick to the script. Only the talking points must be displayed.
Mighty Righty
April 26th, 2011
9:18 am
Jay, fair enough. Who’s Ox ,does make a difference. Its why you like Obama subsidizing union companies.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
9:18 am
Yahtzee,
The big picture is that neither system can operate fully on it’s on.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:18 am
larry – don’t forget to give yourself a multi-million $$$ bonus, with stock options accruing over time.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:19 am
Hey JAY….I never heard you respond to the violence that occured on Marta about a week ago? You were talking about how safe it was…..
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:19 am
USinUK….jealous?
Left wing management
April 26th, 2011
9:20 am
That is not economic conservatism. That is not laissez faire economics. It is government interfering in the marketplace by picking winners. Why should government subsidize a new water park at Lake Lanier, for example, that would interfere with existing investments at White Water?
In short, neoliberalism. It’s wreaked havoc around the world from Chile to Egypt and far from being chastened by the 2007-8 financial crisis, which is the outcome it inevitably leads to, it has redoubled its efforts and is resurgent in even more virulent form. Look at the state of Michigan. It’s your neoliberal pet project of the moment and it’s up and running.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
9:21 am
everybody wins in a free market system
LOL, Yatzee thinks we wilve in a free market system. Guess he never heard of subsidies and tax breaks.
You know what it’s called when a state gives incentives to a company to build or move to it? It’s called subsidies. You know what a subsidy is? The opposite of free market.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:22 am
Finn…..whine whine whine….
larry
April 26th, 2011
9:23 am
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:18 am
Ive got the options written into my contract !! And they are protected if the company goes belly up!! And ive already got my bonus which ive schemed to make it tax free!!
Yahtzee
April 26th, 2011
9:23 am
Jay,
First, why do you assume that I am a “conservative?” I am a free thinker not associated with any kind of party affiliation nor do I feel ownership to lables such as “conservative” or “liberal”, but clearly you are.
Second, you are merely attempting to change the focus off of the Obama administration in your opinon pieces by marginalizing the opposition party to cause political theater instead of being critical of the leadership.
Speaking of GE, where were you when Jeff Immelt was named to Obama’s Economic Recovery Board? Is it not strange that a company who’s CEO has tanked one of the largest companies in the world gets special treatment from the administration on essentially non-contested bid contracts for the largest healthcare overall in our history, in return the administration gets unlimited coverage and spin from all NBC affiliates?
Where are your columns on crony capitalism that is clearly taking place with this administration? Where are your columns on the hypocrisy of the administration pointing the finger at Wall Street and then bending backwards to appease them?
Jay
April 26th, 2011
9:25 am
Your fixation with such incidents is revealing, UGA. Last year, we had 12 people die in auto accidents in Georgia over the Labor Day weekend alone. As I pointed out earlier, road-rage killings are a regular occurence around here.
And yet you fixate on this. Peculiar.
Message from Matti
April 26th, 2011
9:25 am
Good column, Mr. Bookman! I appreciate your attention to state matters. People spend entirely too much time blabbering about things over which we have absolutely no control. We CAN make a difference regarding who represents us at the state and local levels, though, if we’d only pay attention and hold them accountable.
Still, if being forced to be an investor in Georgia Power’s nuclear endeavors — without the benefit of profit sharing or even a reduced rate on the power we might someday consume — didn’t wake the people up out of their secessionist, birther, homophobic, cable-infotainment-ranting haze, I don’t know what will.
BADA BING
April 26th, 2011
9:25 am
Tuesday Topix…..In the news, one of Charlie Sheen’s porn star goddesses has left him. For the first time in history a w _ _ _ e has finally had enough cocaine!
lynnie gal
April 26th, 2011
9:26 am
This little tidbit about government subsidies going to new “tourist” business should be on the front page of the AJC! With schools closing, people going without healthcare, gas prices, etc, this should repulse most people. However, in this state, the republicans would have to gallop through our towns and cities setting our houses on fire and raping our daughters while denying them abortions, before Georgians would stop voting for these men. But, on second thought, they would probably reelect them anyway because the rich would just run tv ads telling people how great the brave republican men are and how wrong the democrats are for trying to assure that they have food, education, healthcare and shelter. Honestly!
Jay
April 26th, 2011
9:27 am
It’s also hilarious to see every state or local topic I tackle be greeted with the “you’re just trying to distract attention from Obama!” meme.
Really people?
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:29 am
UGA – oy. you people just don’t get it.
Mighty Righty
April 26th, 2011
9:29 am
UGA1999-Jay did respond, don’t remember his exactwords but basicly he thought the Perps who were members of a gang based in Northwest and Southwest Atlanta were white conservative Presbytarians or something similar.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 26th, 2011
9:29 am
Jay, you mean other than the ones that claim “nothing to see here, move along”.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
9:30 am
Second, you are merely attempting to change the focus off of the Obama administration in your opinon pieces by marginalizing the opposition party to cause political theater instead of being critical of the leadership
in other words – Lay off the conservatives! Leave em alone, Jay. You are sooooo mean!! Quit it.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:30 am
Jay – yes. really. if you’re not talking about Obama, you’re deflecting.
you’re particularly guilty with your Friday drive-time -
St Simons - we're on Island time
April 26th, 2011
9:30 am
The neocons on this blog have trouble staying on the topic, don’t they?
Their hatred blinds them. Hate – its the glue that holds the Republic Pahhty together.
“Obama! The Rev. Wright! The whitey tape!”
These are all dog whistles to the faithful.You KNOW what that code means.
I can hear that dog whistlin down here at the Lighthouse
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:31 am
Jay….actually no….those were ACCIDENTS! Please post your road rage figures.
You were the one spouting how safe Marta was. Then two days later a gang of 25 thugs ran on and assulted, mugged and robbed the patrons riding the train. Yep really safe.
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
9:32 am
As an added incentive to attract businesses that may be struggling to make a profit, the Georgia Republicans could offer up cheap labor to build and maintain the tourist attractions by giving state and local prisoners an opportunity to work off their debt to society.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:32 am
Mighty…..why did you have to interject a race into the conversation? As a matter off fact all but two were black! Great post! hahaha try again.
Yahtzee
April 26th, 2011
9:32 am
haha, state controlled media and its minions
ty webb
April 26th, 2011
9:32 am
“The neocons…”
careful, I believe Amvet has that term trademarked here.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:33 am
To all of you lefty lapdogs of Jay and Obozo…..the fact is that under Obama…
*
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:33 am
To all of you lefty lapdogs of Jay and Obozo…..the fact is that under Obama…
*
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
9:33 am
Then two days later a gang of 25 thugs ran on and assulted, mugged and robbed the patrons riding the train.
Yeah, so now UGA thinks this type of thing happens hourly 24-7.
UGA, just stay indoors. Much much safer in your mom’s basement.
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
9:33 am
I see UGA1999 did not care much for the statistics classes that the school offered.
Kamchak
April 26th, 2011
9:33 am
…“but but but …. Obama! The Rev. Wright! The whitey tape!”
ACORN
Community organizer
Teleprompter
Long form birth certificate
Kenyan
Socialist
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:34 am
Under Obama….
* Debt is out of control.
* Unemployment still lingers around 10%
* Gas is nearing $4 soon to be $5.
* Obama has a negative approval rating.
But yet Jay still wants to throw the blame to the right. Jay has YET to post a blog showing the lack of leadership by this administration. Maybe if he did that once or twice he would gain SOME credibility.
three jack
April 26th, 2011
9:35 am
You’re spot on with this column Jay. Elected GOPers in this state care only about making sure they get re-elected. They ignore transportation, education and public safety while spending time making sure to appease their most wacked constituents with bs immigration and anti-abortion bills. Additionally they make sure the money keeps coming from lobbyists with bills like HB234.
These guys in the legislature now are acting exactly like the ones many of us worked for years to replace because we mistakenly thought dems were the go along to get along good ol boys. I for one regret ever helping to elect these crooks and look forward to seeing them tossed out en masse next year.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:35 am
Finn….Did I say that? Good job Demon putting words in my mouth.
I am just saying it is not as safe as Jay was making it out to be.
Grasshopper
April 26th, 2011
9:36 am
‘I do find it interesting that the MARTA case has drawn such attention, when we have road-rage killings — you know, actual downright murders — seemingly every two weeks or so.
One is accepted as yeah, that stuff happens. And one is considered a broad indictment of the safety and sanity of the particular transportation mode involved.’
Really Jay? I never heard of a case of 25 gang members beating up another motorist in a road rage incident.
And road rage murders every 2 weeks or so? Hardly. Playing a little fast and loose aren’t you.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:38 am
Grasshopper….that is typical from jay.
Moderate Line
April 26th, 2011
9:38 am
A record 18.3% of the nation’s total personal income was a payment from the government for Social Security, Medicare, food stamps, unemployment benefits and other programs in 2010. Wages accounted for the lowest share of income — 51.0% — since the government began keeping track in 1929.
From 1980 to 2000, government aid was roughly constant at 12.5%. The sharp increase since then — especially since the start of 2008 — reflects several changes: the expansion of health care and federal programs generally, the aging population and lingering economic problems.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-26-government-payments-economy-medicare.htm
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
9:38 am
Debt is out of control.
* Unemployment still lingers around 10%
* Gas is nearing $4 soon to be $5.
* Obama has a negative approval rating.
Oy. People have selective memories, huh?
jm
April 26th, 2011
9:39 am
Jay 9:15, well, there is a real and legitimate distinction between a group that gets to keep some if its income that would otherwise go to pay tax, and a group that doesn’t generate any income and requires direct subsidies.
Tax breaks are not subsidies (except in so far as they can be securitized and resold to third parties to use such as “refundable tax credits” which are really subsidies and transferable tax credits – see alternative energy).
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
9:39 am
Look, if you folks don’t like Marta – cause it’s crowded or you’re just afraid to ride it, then don’t ride it. Thousands of people use it every day as a means of transportation.
Even if you drive to work and NEVER use Marta, you are still enjoying the benefits of fewer people tying up traffic during rushh hour.
Left wing management
April 26th, 2011
9:39 am
It’s also hilarious to see every state or local topic I tackle be greeted with the “you’re just trying to distract attention from Obama!” meme. / Really people?”
Some of our slower forum members seem to have trouble grasping that a senior columnist for the state’s flagship paper might be obliged – even contractually – to address state and local issues on a regular basis. LOL.
Mighty Righty
April 26th, 2011
9:39 am
UGA1999-Love to jab Jay. Poor man is stuck with defending the indefensbile. Some days he almost does it.
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2011
9:41 am
Grasshopper – I think Jay just made your case for you. Look at his comments from 9:25. Apparently, these “road rage murders” are really just accidents that result in someone’s death. Now, when he is using stats from Labor Day weekend, I’ll agree that a fair number of them probably qualify as murder (drunk drivers), but I don’t think that road rage has anything to do with it in any shape form or fashion. And here I was thinking Jay was making good points today.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
9:41 am
You conservatives could fill the state House with Liberals and then Jay would be able to dissect them every day. But, nooooooo, you had to go vote for all them conservanuts.
Misty Fyed
April 26th, 2011
9:41 am
Come on Jay…Just because we are conservative does not mean we don’t think we should try to encourage favorable outcomes. If I give a tax break to tourist oriented businesses then hopefully they will attract tourists. Those tourists will pay for that service, but will also pay hotel taxes, sales tax on food, buy gas, etc. They are spending one dollar to earn three. Be honest. If they didn’t try attract tourism dollars you would be writing an article about that. There are too many other hypocracies in our party to make this an argument.
Jay
April 26th, 2011
9:42 am
From earlier this month, right here in the ATL:
“Atlanta police are hunting the impatient driver who became enraged when a mini van didn’t move quickly enough when a light turned green and then fired a gun at the mini van, injuring a 4-year-old toddler strapped into his car seat.”
But of course, a minor assault on MARTA is far more important.
And then this, from October:
Daniel E. McBrayer, 58, was arrested following an investigation into an assault reported by a woman who told police that McBrayer, following a traffic altercation, got out of his car at the intersection of Roswell and Abernathy roads, walked up to her car and struck her in the face, Sandy Springs police Lt. Steve Rose said.”
But of course, it’s all about MARTA.
And this, from March:
FULTON COUNTY, Ga. – A 15-year-old Stone Mountain girl was in critical condition Monday at Grady Memorial Hospital. Asheley Jewell was riding in a car with friends Saturday night when police say someone from another vehicle opened fire.
Investigators said Jewell was riding in a car with friends on Old National Highway when another vehicle started chasing the car. Someone in the vehicle opened fire on the car Jewell was riding in, shooting the teen in the back of the head.
Jewell was transported to the hospital in critical condition.
Police said road rage may be a possible motive in the case.
But hey, MARTA’s unsafe!?!?!?
And this, from November:
ATLANTA — Two men were arrested Monday morning after shots were fired in an apparent road rage incident on I-285 during the morning rush hour, according to police.
No one was hurt by the gunfire, which happened at the Langford Parkway exit on the southwest portion of the southbound Perimeter Highway.
Or this, from September:
Bond was denied Wednesday for a 17-year-old driver who police said chased a group of children who had yelled at her to slow down, then later returned to the scene and ran over a 15-year-old boy during an apparent fit of road rage.
Fulton County Magistrate Judge Roy Roberts told Lynette Walls that she had total disregard for human life and was dangerous. Walls, who has no prior arrests, stood emotionless and said nothing as Roberts ordered her held without bond.
But hey … MARTA!
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:43 am
8.8% = 10%
I mean, I’ve heard of rounding, but come ON
Grasshopper
April 26th, 2011
9:43 am
‘Look, if you folks don’t like Marta – cause it’s crowded or you’re just afraid to ride it, then don’t ride it.’
Don’t forget inefficient and inconvenient.
Misty Fyed
April 26th, 2011
9:44 am
Finn @9:41
I dont know if you are being facetious or not but I believe that if we elected all liberal legislators, the blogs would simply proclaim “utopia”. Until we ran out of money anyway.
jonas
April 26th, 2011
9:45 am
The real approach is that there should be no gov’t subsidies. End of story and debate. The rest is just special interest drivel. Most of the blogs read like a bunch of old ladies playing bingo.
Jay
April 26th, 2011
9:45 am
jm, this isn’t a “tax break.”
This is a private enterprise collecting taxes from other people — using the state’s power to impose them — and then getting to pocket the taxes it collects.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:45 am
Bosch….your point? Does that make those numbers any less painful?
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:46 am
Bosch….CURRENT UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS 9.7% Good job trying to lie again!
http://www.gallup.com/Home.aspx
hdhd
April 26th, 2011
9:46 am
This is my biggest problem with politicians. They are huge hypocrites. Dems too, but you won’t see Jay talking about that.
Not to mention Republicans’ “leave it alone” attitude when it comes to “economic freedom,” but want to tell me where I can/can’t by beer on Sundays and who I can/can’t marry. Hypocrites.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
9:46 am
If I give a tax break to tourist oriented businesses then hopefully they will attract tourists. Those tourists will pay for that service, but will also pay hotel taxes, sales tax on food, buy gas, etc.
That is crazy. Why does the government need to HELP a business do the business it is in the job of doing? You mean the business can’t do marketing without the government hand-outs? At that stage, it’s time to question the business skills of the people running the company.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:46 am
Jay…”But hey Marta is unsafe!”
Glad we agree!
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:47 am
“Don’t forget inefficient and inconvenient.”
ah, yes, the whine of “but it doesn’t pick me up at mah house and take me straight to mah office!!”
fercryingoutloud people, they’re called LEGS … you can use them to walk the few blocks to your office!
ty webb
April 26th, 2011
9:47 am
Okay I’m convinced…we need a “Brady Bill” that bans assault cars.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:47 am
Finn….how many businesses have you operated/owned?
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:47 am
Ty……GREAT POST!!
(ir)Rational
April 26th, 2011
9:48 am
Dang Jay, that still doesn’t seem like every two weeks, and for the most part, the people didn’t die so it doesn’t qualify as murders. I’m simply saying that the PERCEPTION is that MARTA is less safe than driving. I’m also saying that, for the most part, the MARTA stuff gets more media coverage. But of course, it is SOOOOOO safe, especially at night.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
9:48 am
UGA,
I didn’t say you were not right, I said you had selective memory — were so poutraged over these incidences when Bush was POTUS? If you look at those points, all but the unemployment numbers happened under other administrations. And if you look at WHY we have the unemployment numbers we do, it didn’t suddenly happen in January ‘09.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:48 am
UGA – 9:46 – ah. no – unemployment is 8.8%
http://bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
nice try.
Jefferson
April 26th, 2011
9:48 am
The GOP has never done anything for the working man, they worship money over character and have no credibility. That sums it up. Facts mean nothing to them as they have an agenda that will not hold up to logic and fairness.
jm
April 26th, 2011
9:49 am
Jay 9:45 – I’d say that description legally and functionally is correct. But I would also say not having to collect those taxes is a tax break that will accrue in part to their bottom line and part to the customers using said tourism venue.
I think the tax break is absurd and this stuff needs to be done away with. But it is different than a subsidy.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
9:50 am
Dang, Marta sounds pretty safe after reading all that.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
9:51 am
“UGA – 9:46 – ah. no – unemployment is 8.8%”
Not only that, but the debt has been out of control for years, gas prices have gone up like this before, and poutrages of negative approval ratings? WHAT? Next will they say the sky isn’t blue??
jm
April 26th, 2011
9:51 am
Jay, btw, good rebuttal on the MARTA discussion thread going on here. MARTA is reasonably safe to use in particular during normal busy hours, though you may get harassed by a panhandler or two.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
9:51 am
Finn….how many businesses have you operated/owned?
Why does that matter? You need to defend government hand-outs to businesses? You SOCIALIST!
Grasshopper
April 26th, 2011
9:51 am
Like I said Jay, you play it fast and loose.
None of your stellar examples resulted in a death (you know a ‘killing’) and 5 incidents in an 8 month period does not qualify as every 2 weeks.
I thought facts were an important part of journalism, no?
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
9:52 am
Jay — “L’il Barry, do you have problems responding to something in which you have not yet been given regurgitated rebuttals?”
Yes. Yes, he/she does.
Moderate Line
April 26th, 2011
9:52 am
Jay
April 26th, 2011
9:27 am
It’s also hilarious to see every state or local topic I tackle be greeted with the “you’re just trying to distract attention from Obama!” meme.
Really people?
+++++
Rick: How can you close me up? On what grounds?
Captain Renault: I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]
Croupier: Your winnings, sir.
Captain Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.
[aloud]
Captain Renault: Everybody out at once!
When most of your articles are attack of the Repbulicans and very few are attacks on the Democrats you open yourself up to such attacks.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
9:52 am
Bosch – skyrocketing debt is only bad if it’s under a Dem … under a GOPper, it’s stimulating the economy
Yahtzee
April 26th, 2011
9:53 am
Jay,
What are your thoughts on a flat tax? No deductions, a flat rate on all income, profit, consumption.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
9:53 am
“When most of your articles are attack of the Repbulicans and very few are attacks on the Democrats you open yourself up to such attacks.”
So, Moderate, do you blog at Wingfield’s and Wootens and tell them the same thing – only in reverse?
carlosgvv
April 26th, 2011
9:54 am
USinUK
If you mean that the rightwingers live in their own fantasy world and will never understand the cold hard facts of inequality, I agree.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
9:54 am
USinUK,
“under a GOPper, it’s stimulating the economy” As are earmarks — under a Dem, they are BAD, but under a GOPer, they are economic development.
getalife
April 26th, 2011
9:54 am
The gop should be the whig party after the w disaster but the cons will blindly vote gop no matter what the gop does.
Even if the gop take their jobs and Medicare.
carlosgvv
April 26th, 2011
9:55 am
Bosch
Yes, there are people in America who live like that now. If Big Business has their way, there will be a lot more in the coming years.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
9:56 am
That’s why private enterprises are soooo much more efficient and better run than government entities, right? Cause they whine and complain that they can’t run their businesses until government gives them hand-outs. Maybe if they try actually working and thinking to make their companies work, they could quit taking from the taxpayers??
Ya think?
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
9:57 am
Cons are predictable. By the way, how’d that Georgia Republican tax cutting tax hike thingie work out. And when will the Georgia Republicans get the state unemployment rate down to at least the national unemployment rate…
Misty Fyed
April 26th, 2011
9:57 am
Marta is extremely inconvenient in that the trains are too slow and you have to drive too far to get to one from the suburbs. That isn’t Marta’s fault though. If the metro area buys into the regional concept and properly funds it, I think it could work very well. We just need more people with concealed weapons permits. The thugs will eventually be deselected from the evolutionary tree.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:58 am
Bosch….how many times must we tell you that Bush is not POTUS anymore and Obama is. It is his cross to bear now.
Grasshopper
April 26th, 2011
9:58 am
‘ah, yes, the whine of “but it doesn’t pick me up at mah house and take me straight to mah office!!”’
Actually it doesn’t even come close to two blocks to my house; more like a mile. Every 45 minutes.
If I take Marta to my office downtown it takes about an hour and a half depending on when the buses and trains decide to show up. If I drive, it takes 20 minutes. Maybe you do not value your time USinUK, but I do.
It has nothing to do with being lazy and everything to do with wasting time. Like I said, inefficient and inconvenient.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:58 am
USin…..Gallup is MUCH more reliable. Good job lying. How long is your nose now?
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 26th, 2011
9:59 am
Jay
April 26th, 2011
9:15 am
It’s just fascinating, USinUK, how they retreat back to regurgitating their indoctrination: GE, health care, MARTA, etc., rather than confront the reality of what their own leaders are doing to them.
————
We’re worried about the trillions the Idiot Messiah is adding to the debt, and you, Jay, are trying to distract us with a few million for a stupid theme park.
Whatever it takes to distract from Obozo’s total failure, I guess.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
9:59 am
Finn….nope, that is what i thought. You are TOTALLY ignorant to the situation but you feel you know best. Hahaha keep up the good work.
Libertarian
April 26th, 2011
10:00 am
The GOP is a joke. They are bigger hypocrites than the Democrats.
Vote Libertarian.
Jay
April 26th, 2011
10:00 am
I know most of you won’t believe it, but as an editorial writer back in the days of Tom Murphy and Democratic domination of the Legislature, I was just as hard on them.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:00 am
HOPE AND CHANGE
HOPE AND CHANGE
HOPE AND CHANGE
HOPE AND CHANGE
FAILURE AND A FRAUD!!
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
10:01 am
UGA1999 — “You were the one spouting how safe Marta was. Then two days later a gang of 25 thugs ran on and assulted, mugged and robbed the patrons riding the train. Yep really safe.”
We are *perfectly* safe, because Trisha has previously announced that she will shoot them all for us.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:01 am
Jay….nope dont believe it. We are discussing today. You Dems need to get out of the past.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:01 am
Joe….wishful thinking.
Fix-It
April 26th, 2011
10:02 am
Funny how liberals bash the GOP, but the DNC only has one answer to ANYTHING raise taxes and spend more. I guess that is so they don’t have to think about any issue, more taxes is always the answer…what a bunch of losers…
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
10:03 am
“USin…..Gallup is MUCH more reliable. Good job lying. How long is your nose now?”
just because you like it, doesn’t mean it’s accurate – and it sure as hell doesn’t mean it’s the official measure.
getalife
April 26th, 2011
10:03 am
wow has clones.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:04 am
Usin….Just because you dont like it doesnt mean it is not accurate. Good try.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:05 am
HERE IS ANOTHER ONE FOR YOU 9.2%
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usunemployment&met=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=current+unemployment+rate
Either way you look at it its bad!
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
10:05 am
UGA – one more thing – Gallup measures by surveying 30K households …
BLS surveys 60K
you still want to say that Gallup is “more accurate” ???
N-GA
April 26th, 2011
10:05 am
Whenever an owner of a professional sports franchise says that they will move unless they get a new stadium/ballpark/arena (pick 1), government forces jump to issue those bonds. Corporations seem to enjoy holding the public hostage in order to get a venue that hosts 15-20 football games or 85-90 baseball games or 40-50 basketball games. At best a few concerts are scheduled as well.
And the beat goes on…….
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
10:05 am
Fortunately, Georgia has an ethic commission to make sure that legislation such as this is not abused.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 26th, 2011
10:05 am
$25 million for the theme park. $1.5 trillion annual deficit.
The theme park amount is 0.0016% of one year’s deficit.
Get some perspective, Jay.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:06 am
USin….you are proud of 8.8%….wow have your standards have decreased!
Great job….there is that Hope and Change we all wanted! hahahaha
getalife
April 26th, 2011
10:06 am
Exxon Mobil profits up 60% so the gop want to give them more welfare.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
10:07 am
UGA,
But how poutraged were you when the same things happened under Bush as they do now? I’d wager, not much.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
10:07 am
UGA – oh, one more thing:
Gallup surveys 30K people for their unemployment reading
BLS surveys 60K
you still want to stick with the “gallup is MUCH more reliable” story???
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
10:07 am
UGA – awwww, diddums … losing an argument, so you try to move the goalpost.
how sad.
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
10:08 am
Lil’ — “We’re worried about the trillions the Idiot Messiah is adding to the debt, and you, Jay, are trying to distract us with a few million for a stupid theme park.”
Aaaaaaand here it is. “(A) few million for a stupid theme park” is a perfectly laudable and understandable use of government money in these tough times. Just so long as it advances the conservative principles of ‘what’s mine is mine and what’s yours will be mine soon, too.’
Who was it that said (paraphrasing) ‘a billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you’re talking about *real* money?’ (pointing, laughing)
Left wing management
April 26th, 2011
10:09 am
Moderate line: “When most of your articles are attack of the Repbulicans and very few are attacks on the Democrats you open yourself up to such attacks.”
Where does this idea even COME from that the job of a columnist or commentator is to criticize two sides in exactly equal measure?
All it takes is a moment’s reflection to see what gibberish this is, one reason being that it presupposes that the “sides” in the debate are sacred and eternal and must be bowed to and treated as a fait accompli by the media, which is nonsense.
I believe this misconception is at the root of much of the crisis of media currently and I think generally Jay does a terrific job being undeterred by it.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:10 am
Bosch….is Bush president now?
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:11 am
Usin…..Awwe losing the argument? Didnt know we were arguing. I thought we were having a conversation.
Actually I not part of the Obama losing campaign…so I AM WINNING!! hahaha Nice try.
JKL2
April 26th, 2011
10:12 am
finn- You just vote Republican so you can help out the wealthy so maybe they will one day take away all your benefits?
Vote for Demwits because then you’ll get free stuff. waaaaahoooooo!
Why would anyone want to work when you can get free stuff from the government?
Mighty Righty
April 26th, 2011
10:13 am
Jay, I’m having trouble understanding your position. Are you saying it would be better for the state to collect the the taxes and then write the business a check rather than let the business keep what they already have? While I may not agree with the policy, it’s more efficient for the business to keep the funds than to send them to the state and have have the state turn around and send them back. On second thought, I understand the why. Democrats always want to take the money away from the very people they will give the money back to so they get the credit plus the ability to hire more government employees. Sorry, I do understand.
Misty Fyed
April 26th, 2011
10:14 am
N GA @10:05.
I thought the same until I listened to my kids and their friends talking about what cities they wanted to move to to get jobs when they graduated. As shallow as it is, cities attract people based on their sports franchises.
Wheras my first inclination is to tell the sports team to “go ahead and move”, there are much further reaching considerations.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 26th, 2011
10:15 am
I think I have it figured out. $25 million in tax “refund” for a theme park is nothing to worry about because we must worry about the big picture. So we don’t have to worry about anyone’s taxes unless they pay more than $25 million because we know now that its only the trillions to worry about.
Glad we won’t have to hear the false claims about those low income people paying $0 in taxes any longer. Its not enough money to worry about according to lil bar.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
10:16 am
“Actually I not part of the Obama losing campaign…so I AM WINNING!! hahaha Nice try.”
wow. we have Charlie Sheen on the blog???
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:17 am
Keep….actually it is 43.7 million people who dont pay any federal income tax. Do you think they could afford just $100 per year? That would be a substantial start.
Left wing management
April 26th, 2011
10:17 am
Libertarian: “The GOP is a joke. They are bigger hypocrites than the Democrats. / Vote Libertarian.”
Actually, they’re already partly in charge inasmuch as they’ve effectively taken over a wing of the Republican party, which is now operating almost like a Tory/Liberal coalition party.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:17 am
UsinUk….would you like to meet one of my Godesses?
ragnar danneskjold
April 26th, 2011
10:18 am
Good morning all. The first third of the essay is spot on. The last portion of the essay ignores the economic rule that warns us all that “businesses pay no taxes.” Those taxes are passed on (a) to customers in the form of higher prices, or (b) to employees in the form of lower wages, or (c) to suppliers in the form of harder price negotiations, or (d) to shareholders and officers in the forms of lower dividends and salaries. (ok, D is just a joke.)
One with a true grasp of economics would realize that only people pay taxes, and that governments should avoid market dislocation via tax, any tax. Here the legislative republicans get half credit from me for recognizing the corrosive nature of taxation; the democrats get no credit at all, due to their ignorance.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 26th, 2011
10:18 am
USinUK…can’t be Charlie, he would be making more sense.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:19 am
Keep….I am here to discuss whatever you would like. Bring it.
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
10:19 am
I see UPS had a good quarter. Profits are up. I wonder how higher gas prices will affect them going forward.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 26th, 2011
10:20 am
UGA…why don’t you try to discuss (sensibly) the subject raised in Jay’s opinion piece. That might be a good start.
Misty Fyed
April 26th, 2011
10:20 am
Joe Mama…get real.. spending a dollar to make two is a bad thing?
By your reasoning if I have credit card debt I should not invest in my retirement account where for every dollar I spend I earn two.
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
10:20 am
I am here to discuss whatever you would like. Bring it.
Must wipe screen.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:20 am
Tax….higher gas prices affects nearly everyone and everything regarding the economy.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:21 am
Keep…..I did earlier….try to keep up. The fact is that Jays topics are often inaccurate and extremely biased.
Jay
April 26th, 2011
10:21 am
Right Ragnar. I don’t pay taxes either. I just charge my employer more for my labor, so actually the AJC pays my taxes.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
10:22 am
UGA,
No, he’s not, but were you poutraged about those things when he was?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 26th, 2011
10:25 am
UGA… child do tell me what part of opinion do you not understand. Did you miss class that day? Keeping up is something you might want to try.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
10:25 am
“The fact is that Jays topics are often inaccurate and extremely biased.”
So, UGA, do you go to Winfield’s and tell him the same thing? You do know, what OPINION column means, right?
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:25 am
Bosch….I wasnt happy at all. However the circumstances were MUCH different for Bush than they are for Obama.
N-GA
April 26th, 2011
10:25 am
Misty – If all professional sports owners were required to fund their own venues, then all cities would compete equally for the teams. The owners would likely select markets where attendance would be highest and TV revenues strongest…and the team wouldn’t be able to up-and-leave if they owned the venue. Well, they could but…….
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:26 am
Keep…..boy, you have yet to make one single valid point. Typical left.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
10:26 am
“However the circumstances were MUCH different for Bush than they are for Obama.”
I’ll agree, Bush was actually the one responsible for all this.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:26 am
Bosch…..absolutely.
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
10:27 am
UGA1999 — “Bosch….is Bush president now?”
Did he pay off all of his deficit spending before leaving office, or did he stick his successor with the bill?
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:27 am
Bosch….really so he was responsible for Katrina and 9/11. WOW let me know how lala land is doing today.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:28 am
Joe…..Who forced Obama into taking the job? As a matter of fact didnt he campaign on Hope and Change. How much change have you seen? Honestly?
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:29 am
You suckers bought the tagline “Hope and Change” hook line and sinker. Great job…..hahaha
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
10:29 am
“really so he was responsible for Katrina and 9/11.”
Nice dodge. No, he wasn’t, but you were all poutraged about things that also occured, or rather, were much worse under Bush, so why all the poutrage now? At best you have a double standard, at worst you are a hypocrite.
Bosch
April 26th, 2011
10:30 am
“You suckers bought the tagline “Hope and Change” hook line and sinker.”
Actually, it seems you bought it more than we did since you always seem to bring it up. He’s been pretty much what I expected.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:31 am
Bosch…here we go with the name calling again. Another sign that I WIN. How do you know what my feelings were? I guess you are a mind reader too. Hey if you are a mind reader why couldnt you read Obama’s mind to know that he would destroy our country?
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
10:32 am
Misty — “Joe Mama…get real.. spending a dollar to make two is a bad thing?”
We’re not talking about a dollar or two. We’re talking about millions, at a time when the GOP has made draconian spending cuts their single largest policy plank. Now we find out that spending *increases* are okay, and not even spending increases that benefit *individuals,* but spending increases that benefit *businesses.*
Holler all you want about the free market, but don’t overlook the fact that American business quite often has its hand out (and definitely DOES in this case).
“By your reasoning if I have credit card debt I should not invest in my retirement account where for every dollar I spend I earn two.”
Actually, if you have long-term credit card debt and a retirement account (or two), it makes more financial sense to pay off the long-term debt *first* and then return to investing in your retirement account.
Glad to help. (tips hat)
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:32 am
Bosch….I sure didnt vote for this fool. Did you?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 26th, 2011
10:32 am
Funny, they whine about their claims about “no hope and change” and then they whine about the change that has been undertaken. And the fear the change that will come once the mess they left is on its way to being cleaned up.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:32 am
Bosch….”he has been what I expected” Wow you had your expectations this low for the leader of the worlds superpower? Great job!
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
10:33 am
“Hey if you are a mind reader why couldnt you read Obama’s mind to know that he would destroy our country?”
… too early in the week to award the tiara for best drama queen …
maybe we can offer runners-up lace hankies for their fevered brows
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:33 am
Keep up…..what change?
jm
April 26th, 2011
10:34 am
Hypocrisy is bipartisan.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:34 am
USinUk…..still no intelligent comment from you. I can see now why you voted for this clown.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 26th, 2011
10:35 am
Joe Mama: Aaaaaaand here it is. “(A) few million for a stupid theme park” is a perfectly laudable and understandable use of government money in these tough times. Just so long as it advances the conservative principles of ‘what’s mine is mine and what’s yours will be mine soon, too.’
———-
Go ahead and show us all where I said it was a good use of government money.
Didn’t think so.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
10:36 am
Ok, guys I have to run out for a bit. Be back around noon.
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
10:37 am
Lil’ — “Go ahead and show us all where I said it was a good use of government money.
Didn’t think so.”
Go ahead and show us where you opposed it or criticized it.
Didn’t think so. :p
larry
April 26th, 2011
10:38 am
I WIN !!! I WIN!! I WIN!!!
Commenting on a blog ?
oy
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 26th, 2011
10:39 am
UGA child, if there are no changes, then why are you whining?
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
10:39 am
UGA – you mean other than correcting you??? twice, no less
TaxPayer
April 26th, 2011
10:39 am
UGA1999 sounds familiar. Wow. So many of them sound so familiar. They’re either the same person or they read from the same script each day. Or both.
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
10:42 am
TaxPayer — “UGA1999 sounds familiar. Wow. So many of them sound so familiar. They’re either the same person or they read from the same script each day. Or both.”
They all have fax machines and the RNC has them on its speed-dial blast-fax list.
It’s like Invasion of the Body Snatchers, except that there aren’t creepy alien pods involved.
willie lynch
April 26th, 2011
10:43 am
The defense of this Bill is interesting. Does it invite corruption? Absolutely. Does this fit the bill for the “good ole boys” network? Absolutely. Sherman should come through again.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
10:44 am
“except that there aren’t creepy alien pods involved”
I dunno. have you seen Lindsey Graham???
BULLSEYE
April 26th, 2011
10:44 am
UGA1999 = WOW
willie lynch
April 26th, 2011
10:48 am
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
10:44 am
“except that there aren’t creepy alien pods involved”
I dunno. have you seen Lindsey Graham???
And Sessions from Alabama. I wonder how close the cousins were that produced him?
St Simons - we're on Island time
April 26th, 2011
10:53 am
-Adequately funding pre-k – can’t afford it
-payoff for lobbyist – cha-ching!
No wonder everybody laughs at us
We’ll have to change our tourist brochures – St Simons – an island off the coast of New Somalia
John Birch
April 26th, 2011
10:54 am
Let’s see, theme park gets tax breaks, theme park creates jobs, theme park brings tourist dollars into Georgia. Guess Jay isn’t happy with Georgia just having slightly higher unemployment than the national average. If we could just force enough people out of work maybe the state would go back to its Democratic roots.
Paul
April 26th, 2011
10:55 am
Well, I’ve skimmed through the four or so pages since I left and unless I missed it, no one has refuted Jay and made the case that Georgia’s economic conservatives are really, truly, cross-my-fingers-and-hope-to-die economic conservatives.
Just more praises to theory and ‘but what about Marta and… and… Obama?!!?”
If I missed it, please point it out. I’d really like to learn something today.
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
10:56 am
John Birch — “Let’s see, theme park gets tax breaks, theme park creates jobs”
Tax breaks do not, in and of themselves, create jobs. If tax breaks created jobs, then they would have created jobs during the Bush administration (when tax breaks aplenty were promulgated) and during the Obama administration (when many Bush tax breaks were extended).
What creates jobs is DEMAND. Tax breaks do not create demand.
John Birch
April 26th, 2011
10:57 am
St simons – Food stamps, government housing, universal health insurance, free health care, free cell phones, free pre-k, how about free cars and boats? Anything else you think the culls deserve just for being alive?
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 26th, 2011
10:59 am
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
10:37 am
———-
You made the claim. Just checking to see if you could back it up.
Hell, even the chirping crickets gave up on you and went home!
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
11:00 am
“You made the claim. Just checking to see if you could back it up.”
You *defended* the proposed expenditure. There’s nothing to check.
“Hell, even the chirping crickets gave up on you and went home!”
It figures that *you’d* pay attention to insects (laughing, pointing)
ken
April 26th, 2011
11:01 am
Does the lottery, advocated to by Joe Frank Harris, help poor people ? Conservative did not want it.
John Birch
April 26th, 2011
11:02 am
Joe Mama – Maybe not directly, but the point is maybe the theme park doesn’t open at all without the tax break, maybe it opens in Tennessee, maybe it can afford to hire a few more employees because it dosn’t have to pay so much tax. Question Why is there no state income tax in say Florida or Nevada? answer – they get enough revenue from tourists so they don’t have to tax their residents 6% like we do!!!!!
Jay
April 26th, 2011
11:05 am
So John Birch, just so I understand:
Gov’t putting taxpayers money into GM to save tens of thousands of well-paying factory jobs = socialism.
Gov’t putting taxpayers money into theme parks to create hundreds of poor-paying minimum-wage jobs=great investment.
Did I get that right?
Fresh sheets upstairs, by the way.
USinUK
April 26th, 2011
11:05 am
“advocated to by Joe Frank Harris”
good gravy … there’s a blast from the past
Jefferson
April 26th, 2011
11:06 am
A tax break is nothing more than a unfunded mandate for services, as they don’t just go away. Really a tax shift.
Finn McCool
April 26th, 2011
11:07 am
Let’s see, theme park gets tax breaks, theme park creates jobs, theme park brings tourist dollars into Georgia.
What’s wrong with this?
Let’s see, theme park invests its own money, theme park creates jobs, theme park brings tourist dollars into Georgia.
Are the Georgia tax payers going to get a cut of the profits that the theme park brings in? Why can’t we embrace teh free market, people? Handouts, tax cuts, public grants.
PJB
April 26th, 2011
11:08 am
Excellent piece, Jay. The points you made are exactly the things that drive me nuts about the Republican Party’s hypocrisy concerning Capitalism.
John Birch
April 26th, 2011
11:08 am
Paul – We’re wating for jay to make the point that Obamination isn’t anywhere near the liberal hope and change he campaigned on so we can rush to his defense. After all continuing the hated Bush tax cuts for the rich, keeping Gitmo opne, vastly increasing soliders and casualties in the quagmire that is Afghanistan, bombing the formerly sovereign state of Libya that never attacked us, etc. are all liberal rallying points aren’t they?
Common Sense
April 26th, 2011
11:09 am
The subsidies should end by both the democrats and the republicans.
The problem in Georgia is that many of those “republicans” were “democrats” first, and merely changed parties.
That includes the current governor and the former governor.
Understanding the political beliefs of politicians is not as easy or clear as Bookman wants to make it.
Yep
April 26th, 2011
11:10 am
People in this state actually want theme parks, so I can understand the break. It creates jobs and actually grows the economy in the surrounding area as well. No one outside of the perimeter actually WANTS Marta (crime, overcrowding, further loss in property value) in their county. There really is no comparison between the two.
John Birch
April 26th, 2011
11:11 am
Finn, Joe Mama et al – You realize tax breaks for businesses is a common practice and if your state isn’t playing that game your probably losing jobs and revenue to your neighbors. Drive 85 towards Montgomery and then ask yourself why one fairly new car plant is on the Georgia sidde and another is on the Alabama side. Oh, and please tell me why you hate businesses?
willie lynch
April 26th, 2011
11:14 am
Common Sense
April 26th, 2011
11:09 am
I agree, but I think we should stop looking at this in the political tone of Rep/Dem and view this as it is a class struggle in which the poor are losing. The American illusion is coming to an end. Time dictates the agenda.
Jay
April 26th, 2011
11:15 am
The problem, Carlos, is that such things happen independent of whether the taxes are there to finance them. There’s no linkage between them.
In fact, the idea that spending isn’t at least somewhat bound by revenue — an idea that Reagan popularized — is at the root of our fiscal problems.
Fix-It
April 26th, 2011
11:16 am
Hope to take EVEN your change and redistribute it….is more like it. Bottom line, are liberals so stupid that they think you can keep spending more than they take in? Cut 10% of ALL federal government across the board….
willie lynch
April 26th, 2011
11:18 am
Jay
April 26th, 2011
11:15 am
A fact based argument is worthless with most of the so-called consevatives.
FA Hayek
April 26th, 2011
11:18 am
It is an illusion when the more conservative interventionists believe that they will be able to confine these government controls to the particular kinds of which they approve. In a democratic society, at any rate, once the principle is admitted that the government undertakes responsibility for the status and position of particular groups, it is inevitable that this control will be extended to satisfy the aspirations and prejudices of the great masses. There is no hope of a return to a freer system until the leaders of the movement against state control are prepared first to impose upon themselves that discipline of a competitive market which they ask the masses to accept.” – F. A. Hayek (Nobel Prize Economist)
catlady
April 26th, 2011
11:18 am
Local leaders in my county, all elected as rabid R’s/tea party members, loudly proclaiming “smaller government” and “Keep your hands out of my pocket!” are mad because they are not going to be able to get FEMA payments for the damage done by the tornadoes that hit the county. Seems like the estimate of public-services damage was only a third of what was needed to get money. They want the other taxpayers to BAIL US OUT instead of it being “local responsibility.” How quickly the worm turns!
(Look for the “estimate” to go up a lot!)
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
11:24 am
John Birch — “Joe Mama – Maybe not directly, but the point is maybe the theme park doesn’t open at all without the tax break”
Too bad then. If a business can’t open without government assistance and SOCIALISM, then perhaps it shouldn’t open at all. You’re a perfect illustration of the ’situational conservatives’ that Jay’s written about here.
“maybe it opens in Tennessee’
And maybe Tennesseeans are socialists.
“maybe it can afford to hire a few more employees because it dosn’t have to pay so much tax.”
You know, when folks here argue that poor families could maybe afford a car if they didn’t have to pay so much tax, or maybe they could afford more medical care or something else, we’re told that the circumstances of the poor are due to their own poor planning and poor choices.
Well, so too it is with businesses. Can’t get your primo business plan off the ground without government help? Maybe your business plan sucks. Can’t find an investor for the great idea you’ve got? Maybe the free market is telling you something.
“Question Why is there no state income tax in say Florida or Nevada? answer – they get enough revenue from tourists so they don’t have to tax their residents 6% like we do!!!!!”
Well, good for Florida and Nevada. But what’s personal state income tax got to do with whether or not businesses get state corporate welfare?
Paul
April 26th, 2011
11:25 am
John Birch 11:08
In response to my question if anyone had attempted to refute Jay’s point, you responded
“Paul – We’re wating for jay to make the point that Obamination isn’t anywhere near the liberal hope and change he campaigned on so….”
I guess the short answer is “No”?
Sounds like no matter the topic of the thread, you’ll post off-topic because Jay hasn’t addressed hope and change?
That explains a lot. Thanks.
Heading upstairs.
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
11:33 am
Yep — “No one outside of the perimeter actually WANTS Marta (crime, overcrowding, further loss in property value) in their county. There really is no comparison between the two.”
Okay. Then metro can keep all its state tax revenue right here, and rural GA counties can keep all of theirs.
Good luck attracting jobs, Glascock County (pop 2556). Best wishes for economic expansion, Quitman County (pop 2598). Try tax breaks and handouts to build businesses, Taliaferro County (pop 2077).
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
11:40 am
John Birch — “Finn, Joe Mama et al – You realize tax breaks for businesses is a common practice and if your state isn’t playing that game your probably losing jobs and revenue to your neighbors.”
If you favor tax breaks and taxpayer handouts to businesses, then you are NOT a free-market conservative, regardless of what else you say.
“Drive 85 towards Montgomery and then ask yourself why one fairly new car plant is on the Georgia sidde and another is on the Alabama side.”
Because the governments of GA and AL kiss a lot of corporate butt. Otherwise, they couldn’t attract jobs to rural parts of their states.
“Oh, and please tell me why you hate businesses?”
By your logic, if you don’t support social spending, then you hate poor people. Do you hate poor people?
I don’t hate businesses. But I’m frankly sick of this ‘profits belong to me, but losses belong to the TAXPAYER’ scheme that’s been playing out over the last few years. When a big business fails or falls on hard times, they run to the government for a great big green Band-Aid, but when it comes time for taxes, it’s nothing but YOU’RE GOING TO DESTROY JOBS!!!11!!!NOPONIES!!1111!!ELEVENTY!!1
If you support the free market, then pay your business taxes and GTFO out of the handout line.
Thulsa Doom
April 26th, 2011
11:42 am
USinUK,
Democrats Post Health Care Bill Online, Starting 72-Hour Clock
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/18/public-awaits-health-care-release-dems-celebrate-cost-estimate/#ixzz1KdytTqbK
The final health care bill was posted online for us to read- we had 72 hours. Your idea that the country had weeks and weeks of debate on the bill on C-SPAN is patently absurd. Do you not realize that Nancy Pelosi herself said “We have to pass the health care bill so that you can find out what’s in it” which enraged conservatives precisely because we only had 3 days to deliberate view the 1,000 page bill online?
Yep
April 26th, 2011
11:44 am
Joe Mama — Outside a few pockets located ITP, there are not a great deal of actual taxpayers (excluding SSI and Medicare). Why is it that Fulton is fighting Milton, Johns Creek and others to overturn their recent secession? They see the dramatic drop in taxes confiscated from these areas and need it ($$) to survive. Please do not put on that residents of ATL carry this state any more. It is now a Metro thing.
Working families do not like Marta, that is the bottom line.
Jack
April 26th, 2011
11:44 am
When Bookman opens his business, I wonder if he’ll refuse a tax break.
Common Sense
April 26th, 2011
11:50 am
@Willie,
I don’t disagree. But as long as people like Bookman want to lead with titles such as he does, that’s where the debate will fall.
And seem to have missed Boolman’’s rants liberals who act conservative when they feel it is to their personal advantage.
None of the politicians we have in office today have exhibited that they will stick to the principles of conservatism or liberalism despite what they may personally desire.
N
April 26th, 2011
11:52 am
Terrific piece. Jay you have nailed the absolute, breathtaking hypocrisy of the state leadership.
Gov Hypocrisy
April 26th, 2011
12:10 pm
There is hypocrisy in both parties. This is what the people are sick of. Get rid of the RINOs and get rid of the socialist liberal democrats.
TnGelding
April 26th, 2011
12:16 pm
Why look a gift horse in the mouth? Take it and be happy they’re hypocrites! They’re getting their own money back, not anything from the taxpayers, that otherwise wouldn’t have been invested. Or would it? That’s the $64k question. We need to improve conditions where it’s desirable to locate here without costly incentives.
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
12:18 pm
Yep — “Outside a few pockets located ITP, there are not a great deal of actual taxpayers (excluding SSI and Medicare).”
Buckhead
Virginia-Highlands
Piedmont Park area
Midtown/Atlantic Station area
Sandy Springs (before it bailed out)
Sigh. (eyeroll)
“Why is it that Fulton is fighting Milton, Johns Creek and others to overturn their recent secession? They see the dramatic drop in taxes confiscated from these areas and need it ($$) to survive.”
I didn’t say word one about Fulton. Please pay closer attention to what I *actually* said, and not to what you wish I had said.
“Please do not put on that residents of ATL carry this state any more. It is now a Metro thing.”
I didn’t say ATL — I *did* say metro. Did you miss it?
From me: “Okay. Then metro can keep all its state tax revenue right here, and rural GA counties can keep all of theirs.”
“Working families do not like Marta, that is the bottom line.”
I suspect that working families like it just fine, particularly if they *use* it.
redneckbluedog
April 26th, 2011
12:56 pm
So I watched that cartoon “squidbillies” for the first time…That is exactly how Georgia conservatives think….I’m going to quit calling y’all “T-bags” and start calling y’all “squidbillies”…:-)…..
redneckbluedog
April 26th, 2011
12:59 pm
Theme parks create jobs because of tax breaks..?!?….You have to got to be kidding….Theme parks get tax breaks…theme parks hire people….nobody has enough money to vist theme parks….Theme parks lay everybody off and go into recievership…..
poison pen
April 26th, 2011
1:03 pm
Thulsa, Amen, it’s hard to convince a liar of anything.
UGA1999
April 26th, 2011
1:07 pm
Ok, I am back.
oldguy
April 26th, 2011
1:22 pm
Ah, Just what we need, Jay defining what a Ga Conservative believes.
Now there is an unbias view!!!
What next Hitler celebrating Passover?
What a load!!
Please explain the origin of the universe next!
p.s. I love MARTA also….Who needs to go on Safari looking for wildlife in putrid swamps when you can just ride MARTA?? (bring your own protection; 9MM or bigger recommended!)
deegee
April 26th, 2011
1:39 pm
Maybe Nathan Steal has something in mind for the property that used to be Wilder Outdoors. I suppose that if any jobs are created they would be occupied by his family, friends, and business associates.
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 26th, 2011
1:45 pm
That’s an invitation to corruption, and sooner or later, you just know that invitation will be accepted by somebody.
My guess is that the “invitation” was accepted before the bill was ever voted on. I’m a cynic. though.
Yep
April 26th, 2011
2:01 pm
@ Joe Mama. My point exactly. Outside of the few pockets of wealth inside the perimeter you just selected, Atlanta resembles Detroit. Your original comment sounded like Atlanta drove the revenue for the state, when in actuality, it absolutely does not. Those outside the perimeter abhor MARTA and all the crime it brings by transporting Atlanta residents TO their area. How many peachtree city residents are caught at the marta bus station by the cops with stolen DVD players in their hands? A whole lot less than the residents of East Point, Gresham Park, Edgewod and the like I am positive. My point is that for every nice area of Atlanta that you expouse as wealthy, I can mention at least five that is the exact polar opposite. What would happen if the residents outside of the old Fulton, Dekalb, Cobb, Gwinnett and Clayton (original metro) counties were to withdraw their support from the good ole ATL? It would crumble into becoming Detroit even faster than it is already. There are not enough REAL taxpayers left in the area to support all the entitlement recipients without the other suburban or rural counties tax revenue. The point is Atlanta needs the remainder of the counties in this state MUCH more than they need it.
Go take a drive and see how much of a positive impact the Kia plant has had on LaGrange and tell me that offering deferred tax status to that company was a mistake. The entire town is blooming with the money this company has brought to the local economy.
Bottom line is that Marta transports urban blight to almost everyone’s detriment and the subsidizing (incenting) of new businesses through tax deferrment or breaks does the complete opposite to local economies outside the perimeter.
The comparison of a theme park to marta is not even fair. More TAXPAYERS want a them park than marta, so why not? Theme park, positive. Public transport, EXTREME NEGATIVE.
Working , taxpaying, families absolutely DO NOT like Marta. They want to feel safe when they are transported. Riding marta is simply too dangerous!! Methinks more would ride it if they weren’t so afraid of Atlanta’s resident gangs, thugs and other undesirables seeking to assault and rob them randomly. Why would anyone vote that their tax dollars were to go towards the funding of a transportation system that promoted the expansion and proliferation of violent and non-violent crime?
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
2:02 pm
oldguy — “Please explain the origin of the universe next!”
Well, when a mommy universe and a daddy universe love each other very much . . .
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
2:23 pm
Yep — “@ Joe Mama. My point exactly. Outside of the few pockets of wealth inside the perimeter you just selected, Atlanta resembles Detroit.”
Actually, that list wasn’t exhaustive, and it took me about twenty seconds to come up with it. Besides, *you* are the one demanding that we confine our discussion to ATL proper, whereas I have pointed at *Metro* from the outset.
Plus, I’ve been to Detroit many times. I know Detroit, and ATL ain’t Detroit.
“Your original comment sounded like Atlanta drove the revenue for the state, when in actuality, it absolutely does not.”
Wrong. My comment CLEARLY pointed to Metro as being the tax revenue generator for the state, not Atlanta. Please do not revise my comments.
“Those outside the perimeter abhor MARTA and all the crime it brings by transporting Atlanta residents TO their area.”
Which is why Clayton and Gwinnett built bus systems to interface with it, and why Cobb’s system has for many years already. (eyeroll)
“How many peachtree city residents are caught at the marta bus station by the cops with stolen DVD players in their hands? A whole lot less than the residents of East Point, Gresham Park, Edgewod and the like I am positive.”
Your argument would have better legs if you compared percentages, rather than raw numbers.
“My point is that for every nice area of Atlanta that you expouse as wealthy, I can mention at least five that is the exact polar opposite.”
So what? That doesn’t change the fact that ATL is the tax generator for the state. I bet I could name you a dozen ATL ZIP Codes that put more revenue in the state’s till than the poorest 25 GA counties do.
“What would happen if the residents outside of the old Fulton, Dekalb, Cobb, Gwinnett and Clayton (original metro) counties were to withdraw their support from the good ole ATL?”
I don’t know, but I didn’t comment on that. It’s beside the point of what I said.
“It would crumble into becoming Detroit even faster than it is already.”
I don’t think you’ve actually *been* to Detroit, have you?
“There are not enough REAL taxpayers left in the area to support all the entitlement recipients without the other suburban or rural counties tax revenue.”
What, pray tell, is a “REAL” taxpayer?
“The point is Atlanta needs the remainder of the counties in this state MUCH more than they need it.”
I vehemently disagree.
“Go take a drive and see how much of a positive impact the Kia plant has had on LaGrange and tell me that offering deferred tax status to that company was a mistake. The entire town is blooming with the money this company has brought to the local economy.”
I’m actually quite familiar with that area, but your argument is beside my point. Did you actually read what I said, and did you have a substantive response to it? Or are you just looking for a springboard for your own, unrelated argument?
“Bottom line is that Marta transports urban blight to almost everyone’s detriment and the subsidizing (incenting) of new businesses through tax deferrment or breaks does the complete opposite to local economies outside the perimeter.”
Too bad. If your business plan needs governmental support to succeed, then clearly the free market has already decided that your business plan is crap.
“The comparison of a theme park to marta is not even fair. More TAXPAYERS want a them park than marta, so why not? Theme park, positive. Public transport, EXTREME NEGATIVE.”
I don’t think your idea holds water. Besides, I’m against supplying financial incentives to business UNLESS the sponsoring government entity gets to hold preferred equity in the venture.
“Working , taxpaying, families absolutely DO NOT like Marta.”
I don’t believe you. I don’t doubt that *you* don’t like it, but I don’t think you speak for as many people as you apparently think you do.
“They want to feel safe when they are transported.”
Who are you to speak for them?
“Riding marta is simply too dangerous!!”
No, it’s not. I rode it all the time when I was in grad school, after I got out of the Army. I only got hassled once in three years, and no violence occurred.
“Methinks more would ride it if they weren’t so afraid of Atlanta’s resident gangs, thugs and other undesirables seeking to assault and rob them randomly.”
I think that’s what your problem is — you have a strong fear of those things. If so, then stay off the trains. Those of us less ruled by our emotions and fears will use your seat.
“Why would anyone vote that their tax dollars were to go towards the funding of a transportation system that promoted the expansion and proliferation of violent and non-violent crime?”
Gosh, what a horrible thing THAT would be! Where, exactly, is this mythical system you speak of? (laughing, pointing)
Yep
April 26th, 2011
3:17 pm
What would happen if the residents outside of the old Fulton, Dekalb, Cobb, Gwinnett and Clayton (original metro) counties were to withdraw their support from the good ole ATL?”
Joe — “I don’t know, but I didn’t comment on that. It’s beside the point of what I said”.
@ Joe — your point was that the metro “carried this state” indeed it does not. The plethora of government assistance (Welfare, FS, TANF, etc.) recipients in even the “metro” area as you state it vastly overwhelms the number of wealthy taxpayers in the area. Which is why the area is reaching a tipping point, much like Detroit did 10-15 years or so ago.
Joe — What, pray tell, is a “REAL” taxpayer?
@ Joe — A real taxpayer is a person who pays taxes and does not receive a benefit (refund) IN EXCESS of the monies already paid to uncle sam. This is also someone that does not qualify for EIC, welfare, food stamps, etc.
Working , taxpaying, families absolutely DO NOT like Marta.”
Joe — I don’t believe you. I don’t doubt that *you* don’t like it, but I don’t think you speak for as many people as you apparently think you do.
@ Joe — certainly you have not been here very long? There have been long standing battles between many of the extended METRO counties and marta to put off allowing this transport system. As a resident of Cobb of almost 30 years, I remember that this is why they created the CCT, just to keep marta from moving in with substations.
Joe — Who am I to speak for them?
@ Joe Right back at you! There are many, MANY, MANY citizens who are smart enough to know that they can avoid marta and all the crime it brings by simply keeping it out of their neighborhood and by staying off of it. I am guessing that marta has gotten better since I rode it when I worked DT for 5 years and went to grad school as well? I don’t think so.
The world you live in must be grand. Please stay ITP, you will become a statistic if you keep those rose colored glasses on. But I guess those Rich taxpayers will protect you? Not! They are behind their 10 foot razor wire laced fences as protection from the other “residents”.
My point is that Atlanta needs the state, not the other way around.
I love Georgia. Atlanta no longer is even close to resembling the rest of the state.
Yep
April 26th, 2011
3:20 pm
@ Joe. Oh, I forgot. Yes I have been to Detroit. My grandparents live off Livernois Ave. down by the interstate until their deaths. I felt like I needed an armored truck to visit the old homeplace a few years ago, much like I do now when traveling in many Atlanta neighborhoods.
Yep
April 26th, 2011
3:20 pm
lived
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
3:30 pm
Yep — “@ Joe — your point was that the metro “carried this state” indeed it does not.”
I disagree.
“The plethora of government assistance (Welfare, FS, TANF, etc.) recipients in even the “metro” area as you state it vastly overwhelms the number of wealthy taxpayers in the area.”
I don’t believe you. Evidence, please. With link.
“Which is why the area is reaching a tipping point, much like Detroit did 10-15 years or so ago.”
Again, I don’t believe you.
“@ Joe — A real taxpayer is a person who pays taxes and does not receive a benefit (refund) IN EXCESS of the monies already paid to uncle sam. This is also someone that does not qualify for EIC, welfare, food stamps, etc.”
There are PLENTY of your so-called real taxpayers in the Metro. I believe you are simply being obtuse on this point.
“@ Joe — certainly you have not been here very long?”
~20 years.
“There have been long standing battles between many of the extended METRO counties and marta to put off allowing this transport system.”
I cited three counties where county transit interfaces with MARTA. That directly refutes you.
“As a resident of Cobb of almost 30 years, I remember that this is why they created the CCT, just to keep marta from moving in with substations.”
And CCT goes STRAIGHT to the Arts Center station. Good job keeping those MARTA riders out; we’re sending a bus STRAIGHT to them.
“@ Joe Right back at you!”
I’m not presuming to speak for them as you are.
“There are many, MANY, MANY citizens who are smart enough to know that they can avoid marta and all the crime it brings by simply keeping it out of their neighborhood and by staying off of it.”
That works fine, until your county transit system hooks up with it like at least three counties in the Metro have done.
“I am guessing that marta has gotten better since I rode it when I worked DT for 5 years and went to grad school as well? I don’t think so.”
If you haven’t used it, then how would you know?
“The world you live in must be grand.”
Well, at least it’s not all scary like yours.
“Please stay ITP”
I’m not.
“you will become a statistic if you keep those rose colored glasses on.”
I don’t wear rose-colored glasses. I know how to take care of myself and I don’t pee my pants when rough-looking folk are visible near me.
“But I guess those Rich taxpayers will protect you? Not!”
I don’t need the protection of others; I can protect myself just fine.
“They are behind their 10 foot razor wire laced fences as protection from the other “residents”.
It must be awful to live in a world where you think you have to live like that.
“My point is that Atlanta needs the state, not the other way around.”
I disagree.
“I love Georgia. Atlanta no longer is even close to resembling the rest of the state.”
Then if you live in the Metro, perhaps you should go elsewhere. Preferably somewhere with lots of “real” taxpayers and no poor people on assistance.
Fix-It
April 26th, 2011
3:59 pm
It just makes me laugh at all the liberals trying to get their hands on other people’s money; I am still waiting for any kind of logic from the left. Is it because you are “entitled” to something for nothing, or is it that you are too lazy to go get your own money? This could all be solved if our elected officials would live within “OUR” means, but oh no, the liberal logic is “We must spend our way out of debt”. If that is what they are teaching at Ivy League schools then we need to defund them.. How about you wait until you have the money before you spend it, what a stupid idea, right lefties? FAIRTAX.org
patriot
April 26th, 2011
4:38 pm
Libertarians have known this for decades.
John Daly
April 26th, 2011
4:59 pm
Hey, USinUK, The CEo of CSPAN said that the White House only allowed one hour of televised debate on healthcare. In fact, they sent a letter to the White House complaining of the restrictions on coverage.
betty
April 26th, 2011
5:16 pm
Republicans work for the big business just like the governor. When the republicans rule that means us people that work hard for a living start losing.
yuzeyurbrane
April 26th, 2011
5:48 pm
And what about Deal’s promise to have the state do the Savannah harbour project if the Feds don’t? Now, I happen to think it is probably a good investment for the state to make but I’m a liberal. I agree with Jay. Capitalist theory would suggest that the busn. interests who stand to benefit most should do it by raising private capital; if they can’t then the mkt. has decided it’s a bad idea. This selfdirecting tax revenues trick is 1 of the biggest scams the so-called conservatives have come up with. Not only in tourism but in allowing more than $50 million per yr. with an automatic inflation index being “re-directed” to private schools at the same time public education has been bludgeoned by billions. Shared sacrifice? Ha! The joke is on us middle class suckers.
Atlanta 1
April 26th, 2011
5:50 pm
This is wrong – should be repealed – end of story.
John from Calhoun
April 26th, 2011
6:57 pm
This is the first time I have ever agreed with Jay Bookman. It’s also the first time he has ever written an intelligent column.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
April 26th, 2011
8:08 pm
Hmmmm….how many dems have changed party? Talk about situational? How sad.
killerj
April 26th, 2011
8:14 pm
Level Playing field? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha,what a joke,head back to mars bonehead.Go Tea Party.