King & Spalding withdraws as counsel in gay-marriage case
Earlier this month, Paul Clement, a high-powered Washington partner in the Atlanta-based law firm King & Spalding, agreed to represent House Speaker John Boehner and the House of Representatives in their effort to defend the constitutionality of the anti-gay Defense of Marriage Act.
But King & Spalding, it seems, has had second thoughts. The law firm’s chairman, Robert Hays, announced today that the firm had made a mistake in accepting the case, explaining that the decision had not been properly vetted before the announcement.
In response, Clement resigned, effective immediately. (His resignation letter can be found here.) He did so “out of the firmly held belief that a representation should not be abandoned because the client’s legal position is extremely unpopular in some quarters,” and said that he will continue to handle the case at another firm.
I can’t comment on the internal vetting process that occurred or didn’t occur at King & Spalding before Clement, who served as solicitor general under President Bush, agreed to take the case. But Clement is certainly right about the fundamental importance of even unpopular clients and causes being represented in court. Back in 2007 and 2010, you may recall, lawyers who volunteered to represent detainees at Guantanamo were attacked as unpatriotic in some quarters. So while I think Clement’s wrong and hope he loses, I’m glad he’s sticking with the case as a matter of principle.
That said, it’s stunning that blocking gay marriage is now considered such an unpopular cause that such a step was even necessary.
UPDATE at 6:20 p.m.: A commenter below points to a possible complicating factor. It appears that Clement, as a K&S partner, signed a contract with the House and Boehner in which he agreed to bar all firm employees, including those not in any way involved in the case, from publicly advocating the overturn of DOMA. It’s conceivable that those provisions of the contract stirred opposition among other K&S personnel, leading to the claim by its chairman that the engagement had not been properly vetted.
– Jay Bookman
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409 comments Add your comment
USMC
April 25th, 2011
3:27 pm
The Bolsheviks won!
USMC
April 25th, 2011
3:28 pm
“But King & Spalding, it seems, has had second thoughts.”
You mean the Bolsheviks attacked King & Spalding and FORCED them to withdraw.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
3:29 pm
Gay folks and Guantanamo? Uhh…excuse me while I contemplate THAT analogy…
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
3:31 pm
Hiya, josef.
Trust you had a good passover.
Boehner is just the poster boy for the fact that homophobes still abound in this country…
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
3:32 pm
Probably not the most popular stance for “one of them” to be taking…but, sorry, if you said you would, then do it..otherwise your credibility is up to question…
USMC
April 25th, 2011
3:32 pm
The Politically Correct Leftwing Radicals (you know the ones that are for free speech until they don’t agree with what you say) put a stop to King & Spalding’s representation of the House:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/22/law-firm-defense-marriage-backlash-legal-colleges_n_852050.html
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
3:35 pm
AmVet
Was a good one…’bout 8:45 I’ll have my ham and cheese on white bread with mayo! Tradition!!
As for Boehner et al. It’s just more of politicking with someone else’s life…wonder how fierce an adovocate Ima Gonna will be on this one….
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
3:36 pm
USMC
Bolsheviks? Nyanh…they were anti-gay…they’re the Boehner bunch here…you mean the Menschviks…
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
3:38 pm
josef, glad to hear it. And that does sound like my kind of tradition!
Ima Gonna will deal with it after he deals with GITMO, habeus corpus, sanctioned (illegal?) spying on Americans, Iraq, Afghanistan, cracking down on Wall Street, corporate welfare and on and on and…
USMC, did you drop the dawg half from your moniker?
Peadawg
April 25th, 2011
3:39 pm
It’s amazing seeing the difference between Jay and Cynthia’s articles on this subject. Nice, well written article, Jay.
getalife
April 25th, 2011
3:39 pm
They just got to discriminate but forget they will be the minority soon.
No con marriage.
How do you like that cons?
Well, your wives would be happy.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
3:40 pm
AmVet
Yeah, DOMA no doubt is way down on his list…gotta keep the Bush policies in effect, ya know…
Peadawg
April 25th, 2011
3:41 pm
On topic though…looks like political correctness won again. Good job, Clement, in sticking with it!
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 25th, 2011
3:44 pm
Jay
I’m in agreement. Even if it’s not popular, stick with your guns. I can respect a man that stands for his principles, even if I don’t agree with him. That says a lot about someone’s character.
USMC
April 25th, 2011
3:45 pm
“Bolsheviks? Nyanh…they were anti-gay…they’re the Boehner bunch here…you mean the Menschviks…
”
Thanks Josef,
but they are not anti-gay. They just believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.
All men are allowed to marry and all women are allowed to marry. Just like it has been for THOUSANDS of years.
Harry Callahan
April 25th, 2011
3:45 pm
“That said, it’s stunning that blocking gay marriage is now considered such an unpopular cause that such a step was even necessary.”
If it’s so unpopular, why did it pass on a public ballot referendum in uber-liberal California?
USMC
April 25th, 2011
3:47 pm
“USMC, did you drop the dawg half from your moniker?”
Yeah, its me Amvet.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
3:48 pm
USMC
Thousands of years? Not even in the Western Judeo-Christian cultures (permitted by the early Byzantines) not to mention various and sundry cultures around the world…but…if we are going to claim one-man/one woman til death do you part, then we can’t have divorce and remarriage either…seriously. If we’re going to go there, then let’s go full tilt boogie…no nookie if not specifically for procreation…and on and on and on…
getalife
April 25th, 2011
3:48 pm
Looks like it will be legal soon.
Don’t worry cons.
You still have the immigrants to discriminate against..
stands for decibels
April 25th, 2011
3:49 pm
While it may sound virtuous to support those who support unpopular causes, is it really so great to support an unpopular cause that also happens to be truly vile?
(Cynthia Tucker, in her piece on the same subject, correctly differentiated between the defense of people and defense of ideas.)
I guess my first impression is, I’m not seeing any great principle at work here, mostly just some high-paid guy (Clement) whose feefees have been hurted.
Intown
April 25th, 2011
3:49 pm
I disagree with Jay on one point. Unlike the Guantanamo detainees whose defense reinforces the rights of all accused in this country, the defense of marriage act needs no defender. Nothing about it or its defense adds any value to our nation. I not only hope Clement loses, but I hope he sees the error he is making in taking the case at all.
stands for decibels
April 25th, 2011
3:50 pm
it’s stunning that blocking gay marriage is now considered such an unpopular cause that such a step was even necessary.
stunning in a good way, yep.
Peadawg
April 25th, 2011
3:50 pm
You still have the illegal immigrants to discriminate against..
Fixed your typo, getalife. No thanks needed. And since when did upholding the law = discriminating?
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 25th, 2011
3:50 pm
then let’s go full tilt boogie…no nookie if not specifically for procreation
C’Mon Man!!!!! That’s just wrong.
Harry Callahan
April 25th, 2011
3:51 pm
“Don’t worry cons.
You still have the immigrants to discriminate against..”
Liberals love to thrash straw men…
Granny Godzilla
April 25th, 2011
3:52 pm
Big time lawyer for only 500 bucks an hour? Actually that’s a deal.
Stupid, but it’s a deal…..
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
3:52 pm
The War on Progress, started by the Reagan administration, was the very beginning of this bizarre attempt to constantly legislate morality.
And spelled the end of actual conservatism in the GOP.
I was just curious USMC, carry on…
jconservative
April 25th, 2011
3:52 pm
DOMA is on its last leg Constitutionally.
But Jay is 100% correct and I believe King & Spalding made a mistake. Everyone is entitled to a defense in court.
USMC
April 25th, 2011
3:53 pm
President Obama is ANTI- gay marriage as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73oZ_pe1MZ8
USMC
April 25th, 2011
3:54 pm
“I was just curious USMC, carry on…”
Thank you Amvet, I will be in the area all day long, carry on, soldier.
stands for decibels
April 25th, 2011
3:54 pm
Everyone is entitled to a defense in court.
everyONE, sure.
everyTHING?
Harry Callahan
April 25th, 2011
3:55 pm
“President Obama is ANTI- gay marriage as well:”
Well, to be accurate, he was against it before he was for it. Kind of like;
Bush tax cuts
Iraq
Afghanistan
Gitmo
budget deficits
etc
Harry Callahan
April 25th, 2011
3:56 pm
I’m confused, was it Barry Soetoro who was against gay marriage and Barack Hussein Obama who is for it, or vice-versa?
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
3:56 pm
SFD
I have to disagree….upopular ideas come down to who is making that determination…vile? When I was a lad coming to terms with all this, we were still considered a mental illness…and that was not considered at all an unpopular stance. In fact in a perverted sort of way, it was “progressive” for the times…
No, this idea in a democratic society should be afforded its hearing as well…and, well, it IS the law, ya know…
stands for decibels
April 25th, 2011
3:57 pm
no nookie if not specifically for procreation…
Lessee—Newt, Clarence Thomas, Pat Buchannan—your marriages are hereby kaput.
Granny Godzilla
April 25th, 2011
3:57 pm
““President Obama is ANTI- gay marriage as well:””
So much for we all bow down to the Messiah’s wishes, eh what?
Knuckleheads
Normal
April 25th, 2011
3:58 pm
Hi ya, Josef!
AmVet,
Don’t pick on Bohner, he’ll cry…
USMC
April 25th, 2011
3:59 pm
“Thousands of years? Not even in the Western Judeo-Christian cultures (permitted by the early Byzantines) not to mention various and sundry cultures around the world…but…if we are going to claim one-man/one woman til death do you part, then we can’t have divorce and remarriage either…seriously. If we’re going to go there, then let’s go full tilt boogie…no nookie if not specifically for procreation…and on and on and on…”
Your the teacher, josef. I will take your lead. But can we interest you in a “Civil Union” with the same exacts rights? Or are you merely intent on smearing what has ALWAYS been known as marriage. Personally, I don’t care.
But Civil Unions make more sense. Are we now going to let a man marry multiple wives or marry his dog?
But like I said, I don’t care who or what you marry.
ByteMe
April 25th, 2011
3:59 pm
He did so “out of the firmly held belief that a representation should not be abandoned because the client’s legal position is extremely unpopular in some quarters,”
It’s not the legal position that’s unpopular, it’s the (im)moral position that’s unpopular. It’s immoral to discriminate based on your beliefs… why does he have a problem understanding that? It’s not a “conservative position” at all; Ted Olson is one of the lawyers fighting against the anti-gay marriage constitutional amendement in California and he was a Bush appointee as well. Anti-gay marriage is an immoral position masquerading as a moral position.
Where's My Party?
April 25th, 2011
4:00 pm
Let it go Republicans. Move on and let it go. Gay marriage has no impact on governance. Or on anyone’s life other than those getting married, so please, if you are a member of the wing of the Republican Party…move on. Let it go.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
4:00 pm
An attorney in partnership with other attorneys has to take into account the agreements and rules of the partnership and the impact on other partner’s clients. There are a number of ethic considerations in taking on the so-called DOMA law. This is not providing a right to an attorney under a constitutional principle such the right to legal counsel. A pedophile in a criminal matter has the right to a defense against the law not necessarily the pedophile’s claim that sex with children should be permitted.
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
4:01 pm
President Obama is ANTI- gay marriage as well:
Not what he appeared to be, huh?
Which is why I laughed my arse off, back in 2008, when the nearly universal right-wing lament was, “BHO’s the most liberal person in the entire US Senate!!!”
But then that was the exact same group of people, who only recently determined that GWB and gang were not conservatives.
At least they’re consistent!
http://tinyurl.com/3nw7k7e
Granny Godzilla
April 25th, 2011
4:01 pm
USMC
You wanna marry your dog? Go for it.
I’ll do the reception.
ByteMe
April 25th, 2011
4:01 pm
Galloway reported earlier, by the way, that a group was going to start organizing boycotts of K&S… wonder if that had something to do with their re-examination of the decision to take the case.
stands for decibels
April 25th, 2011
4:02 pm
I have to disagree….upopular ideas come down to who is making that determination…vile?
Hey, I’ll include my own (teeny) piece of the blame, given that there was a time when I sided with those who would deny domestic partner rights to gays. It’s been a long time, but I had to see the light and step out of the dank corners of ignorance.
Some people just take longer, I realize.
Jay
April 25th, 2011
4:03 pm
I think that attempted distinction between idea and person is false and dangerous. You can’t define an idea as immoral and deny it the right to be heard and effectively advocated.
Gay marriage itself is an idea that was once considered immoral, and of course still is by many. All sides have a right to be heard; all sides have the right to effective counsel.
Harry Callahan
April 25th, 2011
4:04 pm
“USMC
You wanna marry your dog? Go for it.”
Wow…the battlefield is littered with straw men…
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
4:05 pm
josef, howyu doin?
ByteMe
April 25th, 2011
4:05 pm
You can’t define an idea as immoral and deny it the right to be heard and effectively advocated.
And yet, Jay, that’s what the anti-gay marriage side is doing. Defining the idea as “immoral” and then denying rights based on that. Seems only fair to return the favor with gusto until everyone gets that they’re not always going to be in the marjority and starts to play nice.
Harry Callahan
April 25th, 2011
4:06 pm
FWIW, all true conservatives know that marriage should not be the domain of government anyway.
USMC
April 25th, 2011
4:06 pm
Jay, why are you moderating my statement @4:03?
Harry Callahan
April 25th, 2011
4:07 pm
“Seems only fair to return the favor with gusto until everyone gets that they’re not always going to be in the marjority and starts to play nice.”
Kind of like 90% voting to make the top 10% pay all the taxes, huh?
ByteMe
April 25th, 2011
4:07 pm
FWIW, all true conservatives know that marriage should not be the domain of government anyway.
… except to adjudicate and standardize the details of the civil contract… I can agree with that.
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
4:07 pm
Granny G…..He could marry a dog, but wouldn’t the Wedding Planner be gay?
ByteMe
April 25th, 2011
4:08 pm
Kind of like 90% voting to make the top 10% pay all the taxes, huh?
Let me know when that happens, Strawman.
ByteMe
April 25th, 2011
4:08 pm
but wouldn’t the Wedding Planner be gay?
“We’ll have a gaaaay old time!
WILMAAAAA!!!!!”
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:08 pm
And just to be sure we’re clear,,,the state is not in the “marriage” buisness…the state’s interest is in civil union…I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, when everybody seeking state sanction is required a license of civil union obtained at the civil union license bureau, we’ll have equality…marriage? L-rd, G-d, if after 35 years of a relationship foresaking all others with Unmentionable, we’re not married, then just what are we? And if we wanted to we could go and have it sanctioned by a rabbi, complete with ketubah, chuppah, glass smashing, carted about the room in chairs, and a rousing Havah Nagilah…the whole nine yards and what the state, Boehner and the anti-faction here has to say about it absent from consideration…
USMC
April 25th, 2011
4:09 pm
“Granny G…..He could marry a dog, but wouldn’t the Wedding Planner be gay?”
Only if I had enough money to get a good wedding planner:-)
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
4:09 pm
Jay, ther is not constitutional right to legal counsel in a non-criminal matter. We accepted daily that families in divorce may not have legal counsel, businesses have no right to legal counsel even if they cannot afford them (and they are required to have legal counsel in any court excluding magistrates court in Georgia), people may not have legal counsel to perform many civil matters and there is no obligation to provide that representation.
getalife
April 25th, 2011
4:09 pm
Government should stay out of our bedrooms.
It is weird.
TaxPayer
April 25th, 2011
4:12 pm
I think straw men should be thrashed.
Granny Godzilla
April 25th, 2011
4:12 pm
Harry
That would be straw dog, and yes it was litter added to the battlefield by your side.
I just offered to be gracious as to his possible pick for a life partner…so don’t try the “ruff” stuff with me…..
pogo
April 25th, 2011
4:15 pm
josef @ 3:29. That one has me flummoxed to.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:15 pm
BADA
Doing fine and dandy, thankee,,,ready and raring to go and the Ole Bruin gave me a pork chop to gnaw on…
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
4:17 pm
“all true conservatives know that marriage should not be the domain of government anyway”
Marriage is a legal contract…and as such, is VERY MUCH in the “domain” of the government. It is RELIGION that should stay our of marriage.
Harry Callahan
April 25th, 2011
4:18 pm
“Let me know when that happens, Strawman.”
ByteMe,
So you libbies aren’t arguing that the rich should pay more taxes? Sorry if I mis-interpreted your rants.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:18 pm
USMC
See my @ 4:08 on civil union…
pogo
April 25th, 2011
4:19 pm
“Government should stay out of our bedrooms”. Just as we should stay out of theirs (for fear of being blinded, mentally corrupted or something much, much worse!).
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:20 pm
AmVet
Obama and his California gambit on “gay marriage…” One of the reasons I didn’t vote for him…
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
4:21 pm
USMC….I have asked this before, Why do Gay men see ‘ecru’, but straight guys see ‘tan’? Genetics, or environment?
jm
April 25th, 2011
4:23 pm
Chalk this one up to displeasure from K&S’s corporate clients that were extremely displeased with K&S’s name being on this case. Money talks….
RW-(the original)
April 25th, 2011
4:23 pm
ketubah, chuppah, glass smashing, carted about the room in chairs, and a rousing Havah Nagilah
josef,
It sounds worth going through with just for whatever all those things are. Don’t forget my invitation.
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
4:23 pm
Taxpayer…..Would you bale a Straw Man out of jail?
USMC
April 25th, 2011
4:24 pm
“USMC….I have asked this before, Why do Gay men see ‘ecru’, but straight guys see ‘tan’? Genetics, or environment?” LOL!
ByteMe
April 25th, 2011
4:25 pm
Sorry if I mis-interpreted your rants.
Apology accepted. Try to do better.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:26 pm
RW
Well, I said, IF we wanted to…we don’t want to…we just want to sign a piece of paper down to the court house along with everybody else who wants state sanction for the union…cuts down on the paperwork…
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
4:27 pm
“Why do Gay men see ‘ecru’, but straight guys see ‘tan’? Genetics, or environment?”
Neither. They only say that because they know it annoys people like you.
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
4:27 pm
Granny….if he married a dog, does that mean he likes ‘Ruff Sex’?
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:27 pm
BADA
Ecru or tan? Some of us are partially color blind and have no idea! It all looks, well, pinkish-brownish to me…
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 25th, 2011
4:28 pm
josef
It’s not about what y’all want. RW and I want the party… Don’t forget my invite too!!
USMC
April 25th, 2011
4:29 pm
“USMC, See my @ 4:08 on civil union…”-josef Nix
Mazel tov! Josef:-)
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:29 pm
All’s I can say is I’ve seen more than one breeder married to a dog!
RW-(the original)
April 25th, 2011
4:30 pm
It’s not about what y’all want. RW and I want the party
Damn right! It’s out of your hands now, josef.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:31 pm
SoCo
The party was YEARS ago!!
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
4:31 pm
” It all looks, well, pinkish-brownish to me… ”
Yep, you must be colorblind! Since neither one is “pinkish”!
say what?
April 25th, 2011
4:32 pm
“The Politically Correct Leftwing Radicals (you know the ones that are for free speech until they don’t agree with what you say) put a stop to King & Spalding’s representation of the House:”
How is this an example of being against free speech? If K&S can’t take the heat of standing up for their convictions, that’s their problem.
pogo
April 25th, 2011
4:33 pm
One does have to wonder about the “unpopular in some quarters” bit though. I smell politics bigtime. Law firms are notorious predators that will abandon ANY cause at any time if it will cost them money and in this case they might have thought that persuing the case would cost them some “Washington” cases (aka, federal money) under the current administration.
As for Obama saying he was against gay marriage, who in the hell has ever really taken him seriously on anything that came out of his mouth? He knows that his base will support him no matter what. Wars and US casulaties? No problem now. Escalating food and fuel prices? No problem. Unstainable debt? No problem. We are not dealing with rational people here, we are dealing with pure political partisanship.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 25th, 2011
4:34 pm
The party was YEARS ago!!
I, I mean, RW and I demand a recount!!!
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
4:34 pm
“USMC
You wanna marry your dog? Go for it.
Granny: I’ll do the reception.”
I’ll bring the treats!
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:36 pm
Doggone
I am partially…I can’t distinguish “shades” especially when up against one another…some of my canvases are, well, “unique!”
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
4:36 pm
“How is this an example of being against free speech?”
say what – now pay attention, you’ve got to get this RIGHT, or you’ll never understand. When “liberals” disagree with the conned we are trying to suppress their freedom of speech. But when the conned disagree with the “liberals” it is upholding American values.
Got it now?
USMC
April 25th, 2011
4:36 pm
Maybe Obama will create another commission to work on the Gay marriage issue.
Obama has created one commission a month since taking office…
http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/04/obama-quick-study-creating-commissions
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
4:36 pm
If he married a dog, and they had an argument, would he be in the …………all together now……Doghouse?
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
4:37 pm
Missed you the last few days, josef.
Welcome back!
Harry Callahan
April 25th, 2011
4:37 pm
I have encountered K&S here in the Atlanta business community. Suffice to say that they aren’t afraid to represent some really unscrupulous customers.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:38 pm
SoCo, RW
We’ll make sure you get an invitation to the 50th Anniversay…that one should be a wing ding…Havah Nagilah in wheelchairs1
ByteMe
April 25th, 2011
4:38 pm
USMC: Is that the “Meme of the Day” for today?
>> Yawn <<
Harry Callahan
April 25th, 2011
4:38 pm
“Obama has created one commission a month since taking office…”
Well, he did vow to focus like a laser on jobs. Maybe this is what he meant.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 25th, 2011
4:39 pm
josef
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
4:39 pm
“I am partially”
Years ago when I wrote online documentation for a helpdesk office, I had to work with a guy with a form of colorblindness I’d never even heard of before. I would make important “notes” in bold red lettering and he couldn’t tell the difference between those and regular black. I had to work with him to get the depth of red color to where he could see it as different from black – except then he saw it as green!
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:40 pm
DAVE
Had my semi-annual navel contemplation about life and our purpose here…it’s still fuzzy…!
TaxPayer
April 25th, 2011
4:40 pm
Would you bale a Straw Man out of jail?
No, but I’d sure thatch a roof with a few.
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
4:41 pm
If he married a dog, I suppose that his family would be on one side of the Church, and the dog’s family would “Sit’ on the other side?
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
4:42 pm
Would the dog’s family “Stay” for the reception?
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
4:44 pm
“Would the dog’s family “Stay” for the reception?”
Maybe not…but they would sure have a howl of a good time
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:46 pm
Doggone
Color blindness is a fascinating thing…it is almost entirely a man thing! A lot of color blind people don’t really know that they are…
TM
April 25th, 2011
4:46 pm
This is just the typical response by the liberals. In WI when things don’t go your way just pack up andl eave and shut down the gov’t and schools; if the repub bring up shutting down the gov’t lets dump our garbage on the speaker’s lawn. If someone takes up a cause that “they” are against they are evil and must be stopped. What this shows me is they are nothing but a bunch of sissies who are afraid that they might loose if a good lawyer is on the other side. Frankly,I would like to see this law overturned knowing those who supported it had the best lawyer money could buy and still lost.
say what?
April 25th, 2011
4:47 pm
Sadly, Doggone/GA, you have explained it perfectly.
ty webb
April 25th, 2011
4:47 pm
enough with the whole “marrying a dog” thing…can’t we just let sleeping Behars lie?
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
4:47 pm
Would the families “Shake” hands, or not?
Paul
April 25th, 2011
4:48 pm
Mr. Clement was a partner. The firm claims the reason for their backtrack is because the original action ‘was not properly vetted.’ Not properly vetted? Clement’s resignation letter asserts “a representation should not be abandoned because the client’s legal position is extremely unpopular in some quarters.”
One has to wonder what those quarters are. Some big-money clients have the firm on retainer? if that’s what played into it, it’s a pity.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
4:48 pm
TM
Who you callin’ a sissie, Willis?
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
4:48 pm
“Color blindness is a fascinating thing”
Yes, it is. I’d always known about the “red-green” form, I just didn’t know there were others.
cavedave
April 25th, 2011
4:48 pm
They wanted to concentrate on more important issues…like defending 911 terrorists, funeral protestors, and flag burners. You know folks with more noble intentions.
Rockerbabe
April 25th, 2011
4:49 pm
I guess somethings are just too hot to handle, even for high-priced well connected lawyers!
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 25th, 2011
4:49 pm
For some reason, when y’all said “ecru” I thought of this………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5LENwgWjB0
jm
April 25th, 2011
4:51 pm
Paul 4:48 it’s all about the money.
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
4:51 pm
This looks rather interesting.
On January 21, 2011 the Atlanta Thrashers owners filed a malpractice claim against King & Spalding for $194.5 million.
TaxPayer
April 25th, 2011
4:53 pm
A blue ecru emu. Who knew.
jm
April 25th, 2011
4:53 pm
Barbour’s out. If Daniels bows out, that will be sad.
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 25th, 2011
4:56 pm
AmVet
A bit more on the Atlanta Spirit vs King & Spalding.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2011/01/21/atlanta-spirit-lied-to-us-about-thrashers-go-figure/
jm
April 25th, 2011
5:02 pm
The electoral calendar is seriously f’d up. It needs to be revised. Ie, much shorter.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
5:04 pm
Hillbilly
Thass funny!
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
5:05 pm
HD, I read a piece from the Atlanta Business Chronicle that filled in some of the pieces.
That filled in some of the others.
Thanks.
By and large, the interests that have owned Atlanta’s pro sports franchises have been abysmal.
Poor Donald of the Awful Hairpiece. He’s getting lambasted left and right these days.
DeNiro and Seinfeld both have recently alluded to what a raging nutjob he is.
Another enormous embarrassment for Republicans…
Mick
April 25th, 2011
5:05 pm
hd
Man, do I miss carson, the only man in america who ever caused a toilet paper shortage – the power….
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 25th, 2011
5:07 pm
The electoral calendar is seriously f’d up. It needs to be revised. Ie, much shorter.
I was just reading the other day, how the Presidential Campaigns in the late 1800’s lasted 3-4 months. They referred to that as a grind.
Paul
April 25th, 2011
5:08 pm
jm
When you think about the billable hours and the number of attorneys, paralegals, etc this case would bring, you have to wonder who’s bigger than that.
Harry Callahan
April 25th, 2011
5:08 pm
“Another enormous embarrassment for Republicans…”
I don’t see how you figure that, unless he wins the nomination. No more of an embarassment than David Duke was for Democrats.
Mick
April 25th, 2011
5:09 pm
jm
It’s the smart move, in 2016 the race will be wide open and many issues will be fleshed out by then…
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 25th, 2011
5:09 pm
By and large, the interests that have owned Atlanta’s pro sports franchises have been abysmal.
I’ve been around for all of them but I don’t think any of the others can hold a candle to the Spirit Group. for sheer abysmalness. If that ain’t a word, it ought to be.
Man, do I miss Carson,
The more time that passes and the more talk show hosts we see, the more obvious it is just how good he really was.
retired early
April 25th, 2011
5:10 pm
I see where Texas is planning to ban marriages between trans gender couples. How do these states continue to get away with denying Americans their constitutional rights. Here in Ga, we continue to enforce “Blue Laws” like no alcohol sales on Sunday, clearly a law to appease Christians. We could only buy essential items on Sundays here, until the law was challenged back in the mid 70’s. Nor could we “hunt” on Sundays. If one truly believes we have a separation of church and state you are ignorant to the facts. The Feds allowed racial segregation and state sponsored civil rights violations to thrive for decades. How did they get away with it….and why was it much more pervasive in the southern states. I submit that it starts with the Protestant Religion. Take a look at the current crop of “Conservatives”. They really have not changed…still pushing their religious beliefs on the rest of us…first the Blacks…and now the homosexuals.
AmVet nails it with his FDR quote about the conservatives never moving forward…they are stuck in a time warp from the past. Fortunately, The grand old GOP is tearing itself apart, trying to please differing groups that are equally intolerant of each other. May they finally succeed in committing the suicide they so desperately deserve.
Mick
April 25th, 2011
5:12 pm
Nothing is an embarrassment for republicans, even statements made that are not supposed to be understood as factual…
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
5:14 pm
retired
While I would agree with much of what you say, at the same time the turnaround came courtesy of certain Protestant groups…it just depends on the brand…
getalife
April 25th, 2011
5:15 pm
I remember when cons were fixated on clenis.
Bizarre.
RW-(the original)
April 25th, 2011
5:16 pm
Hillbilly D,
Even as recently as 1960 JFK announced his candidacy in January of 1960 for the November 1960 election. Of course, 24 hour “news” stations will never again let that happen.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
April 25th, 2011
5:16 pm
The electoral calendar is seriously f’d up. It needs to be revised. Ie, much shorter.
To hell with the calendar, the whole process is f’ed up. Make that royally f’ed up.
Catch y’all later. Time to get domestic and put some grub on the table.
pogo
April 25th, 2011
5:18 pm
From the AJC pertaining to Morris Brown “College; “In agreement pending with the Education Department, Atlanta college will repay pennies on dollar of money owed”. Once again those that sqandered the taxpayers money because of corruption and ineptness go unscathed. Another case of “sweep it under the rug” and let those that have to pay, the taxpayers, suffer. Kudos to the AJC in even printing the article.
Paul
April 25th, 2011
5:21 pm
retired early
“I see where Texas is planning to ban marriages between trans gender couples. How do these states continue to get away with denying Americans their constitutional rights. ”
Not quite.
http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=14506348
jm
April 25th, 2011
5:24 pm
Paul 5:08 – are you kidding me? This case would be next to nothing $ wise compared to a lot of the business K&S gets…. the corporate clients were incredibly unhappy (the Fortune 500 lot that you guys love to trash daily)
pogo
April 25th, 2011
5:25 pm
Mick, as inferred by your statement, at least Republicans can feel embarrassment. As for you progressives, I don’t think so. If you can defend buffoons like Obama and Biden then you have far surpassed us in that department. Speaking of embarrassments, where is Pelosi nowadays?
retired early
April 25th, 2011
5:25 pm
josef
I agree, the “Protestant Religion” was too broad a brush…”fundamentalist” regardless of their “flavor” are mostly responsible…Catholics had numerous “integrated” schools here in the south at the time…I guess that’s why the “Baptist” hated them so much.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
5:27 pm
Tell me something…why are transgenders put in the same camp with homosexuals…didn’t they “choose” to cross over…?
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 25th, 2011
5:28 pm
Of course, 24 hour “news” stations will never again let that happen.
I remember reading that in the early days of radio, the BBC had a 15 minute news program and some days they would just say, “There’s no news to report, today”. Oh for those days.
Redneck Convert (R---and proud of it)
April 25th, 2011
5:29 pm
Well, like I said many times before, they won’t stop till we’re all lined up and made to marry some big hairy man. These gays don’t just want to be gay, they want to make us gay too. You know the End Is Near when even The Boner can’t find a good lawyer to defend God’s Law—I mean, the Defense of Marriage Act. It’s a Obamanation, that’s what it is, this gay marriage. Next thing I expect to see on TV is The Boner standing there bawling again. That is, if he’s not drunk and cussing like he did before Obamacare was passed in the House.
Husbands, revere your wife. She might be took away from you and you’ll wind up with some 350 lb. hairball with a motorcycle and a drinking problem. Goodbye, Billy Bob’s. Hello, Gay Bar.
TaxPayer
April 25th, 2011
5:30 pm
Did someone other than md use the choices claim.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
5:32 pm
retired…
But the Baptists, too, have their own who don’t buy into that…I got an e-mail from one of Unmentionable’s Baptist relatives inviting us to a “silent service” in protest of that wack-o bunch from Kansas. and their “hatred of our gay brothers and sisters in Christ”..a small country congregation in rural Mississippi…it was truly heartening…
Paul
April 25th, 2011
5:33 pm
jm
I’d see this case dragging out a lonnng time.
Haven’t seen any sources on their corporate clients’ views or whether that impacted the decision.
Mick
April 25th, 2011
5:34 pm
pogo
While I respect your dissent of progressives, I think pelosi was one hell of a good speaker. She got the job done with a very tough caucus. It remains to be seen whether boehner will be as adept in handling his own rowdy caucus, the jury is still out. People can mock the caricatures all they want but governing to me is on par with death by a thousand cuts – to many odd politicians, too many wannabe chiefs and most importantly, too many idiots…god help us..
Paul
April 25th, 2011
5:36 pm
good evening, josef nix 5:27
I’d guess it was a conscious decision by activists to pool resources and have more clout.
King & Spalding withdraws as counsel in gay-marriage case | Jay Bookman – Slinking Toward Retirement
April 25th, 2011
5:36 pm
[...] King & Spalding withdraws as counsel in gay-marriage case | Jay Bookman. Posted in Opinion – Tagged Chairman, client, constitutionality, decision, Defense, defense of marriage act, gay marriage case, Jay Bookman, John Boehner, king, paul clement, position, resignation, resignation letter, response, robert hays, solicitor general, today, unpopular cause, vetting process SHARE THIS Twitter Facebook Delicious StumbleUpon E-mail « Prince Harry’s Royal Wedding Plus One: Chelsy Davy | PopEater.com No Comments Yet [...]
pogo
April 25th, 2011
5:41 pm
Well said Mick. I agree.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
5:43 pm
PAUL
I’m by them like I am by bi-sexuals…I’m not here to tell you what to do, but stick to your own kind!
Mary Elizabeth
April 25th, 2011
5:43 pm
Ideas evolve over time in the public’s consciousness. Segregation was not thought to be “immoral” at one time – in the South’s history – by many whites. In fact, there were plenty of Jim Crow laws to back it up. The idea of evolution, as a reality, was feared by many Christians, as demonstrated in the famous John Scopes trial against the state of Tennesee in 1925. Biology teacher John Scopes was accused of violating the Butler Act of Tenn. which forbid the teaching of evolution. He lost that trial.
Often, the outcome of legal decisions by jurors reflects, in part, simply the present consciousness of provincial thinking. Generally speaking, consciousness has shown to evolve toward more progressive ideas – in time. (Examples: segregation, evolution, same-sex marriage).
That said, I do not think that ideas should be banned from coming to the public arena in trial because the open debate, itself, in trials often expands consciousness. However, it is obvious that that is why we, also, need the appeal of local decisions to higher courts – because the higher the court, hopefully, will exercise a more complex and erudite process in coming to decision.
I must point out, here, that the idea of what to do – in this nation – regarding the present large numbers of illegal immigrants is still evolving over time. The present laws only reflect present consciousness. Laws can be changed to accommodate higher consciousness regarding these thousands of illegal immigrants (whose actions in coming to America were silently condoned, for years, for business reasons).
Don’t forget that John Adams defended the British against the American soldiers in the trial that resulted from the Boston Massacre of 1770. Many did not understand how he could do that. He said everyone deserved a defense in a court of law. He won. The British offered him a high position. He refused and later served admirably as a member of the Continental Congress from Mass.
I believe that we should not be afraid to have ideas debated in a court of law, but provincial jurors usually decide cases only at the level of the consciousness to which most of the people have evolved at point in time.
That, of course, is why there is appeal. We fought the Civil War over an idea.
Mick
April 25th, 2011
5:46 pm
josef
Welcome back ole sage…it doesn’t seem right at night when you’re not here opining..
Joe
April 25th, 2011
5:48 pm
Defending traditional marriage is still wildly popular throughout the land. How many states has it passed in? LOL….
Paul
April 25th, 2011
5:48 pm
Mick
Opining?
Is that a fancy word for ’stirring the pot.’ “Making trouble.” “Putting forth with incendiary ideas.” ???
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
5:49 pm
“Segregation was not thought to be “immoral” at one time – in the South’s history – by many whites. In fact, there were plenty of Jim Crow laws to back it up”
Not just the South…Brown v TOPEKA Board of Education…There are still discriminatory laws on the books in many Northern states (and enforced…i.e. Washington, New Jersey) targeting the Romany people…American Indians are the only group in this country still required to “proove” their race (CDIB card)….
By continuing to hold this dialogue on race in black-white dichotomies, we’re getting nowhere…
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 25th, 2011
5:50 pm
That said, it’s stunning that blocking gay marriage is now considered such an unpopular cause that such a step was even necessary.
——————-
Yes, we’ve really made progress these last few decades, deconstructing such unpopular institutions as schools where kids actually learn things, working for a living rather than voting for one, and normal, two-parent families. It’s working out just great!
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
5:51 pm
PAUL
EOI!
MICK
Oh! Pining for the fjords!
retired early
April 25th, 2011
5:52 pm
Josef
That is encouraging…
People have an innate ability to know “right from wrong”. Religion can, and does, cloud that thought process. Personally, I think the world would be better served if we relied on our sense of reason and eliminated all influence from “organized Religion” in our attempts at “group governance”….Hence the Constitution’s attempt to separate church from state.
Mick
April 25th, 2011
5:53 pm
paul
That’s exactly why your here to decipher and expound, very few are better…
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
5:54 pm
JOE
“Traditional” marriage? Aitn’t that the one that prohibits divorce and remarriage…no nookie except for procreation…get real, Bubba, if that lot is “traditional” then I’m the Queen of England…
getalife
April 25th, 2011
5:55 pm
“Is that a fancy word for ’stirring the pot.’ “Making trouble.” “Putting forth with incendiary ideas.” ???”
Just bloggin.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
5:56 pm
““Traditional” marriage? Aitn’t that the one that prohibits divorce and remarriage…no nookie except for procreation”
and don’t forget polygamy. that is a LOT older than “traditional” marriage
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
5:58 pm
retired…
Again no real argument with what you say…I would chose the word “theology” over “religion…” The need for something spiritual to offer explanation for what we do not know is universal in the homo sapiens species (not the individual homo sapiens, just to make sure the militant atheists don’t feel attacked!) It is what the organized and structured theologians with their clerical classes making the decision of what is and what is not acceptable which is where the problem begins.
Midori
April 25th, 2011
5:59 pm
Trump Dogged By Rumors His Hair is Not From U.S. (Borowitz)
NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report) – A threat to the fledgling presidential campaign of Donald Trump emerged today, as a group of activists charged that Mr. Trump is not eligible to hold the nation’s highest office because his hair does not originate from the U.S.
The group, who call themselves “Balders,” claim that the hair-like substance that crowns Mr. Trump’s head is from a foreign country, which would mean that the candidate is less than one hundred percent American.
“Time and time again, Donald Trump has refused to produce a certificate of authenticity for his hair,” said Leeann Selwyn, a leading Balder. “This is tantamount to a comb-over of the truth.”
joseph
April 25th, 2011
5:59 pm
JAY BOOKMAN
Do your homework as a journalist… Paul Clement signed an agreement with a gag order on all king and spalding employees barring them from even saying or supporting the overturn of DOMA… Even when they were not at work… His so called principles were to violate the first amendment of all the firms employees…. This agreement was signed on behalf of the firm on 4/14 by this so called couragous Clement…. You say you can not speak to this vetting process, but i found it in five minutes all over the internet…
You should try harder to put your facts together before you give an uneducated opinion on the subject.
The agreement was the problem… you can read it on the internet if you would like to take the time to look it up…
Mary Elizabeth
April 25th, 2011
6:01 pm
josef @ 5:49
What you say in your first paragraph is completely true. I simply was pointing out the system of segregation in the South which I lived through and immediately moved North and found no overall system of segregation there.
However, josef, you have misread my thoughts in this respect. Black-white dichotomy was not the focus of my writing. My focus was on the evolution of ideas – many, including same-sex marriage, evolution, illegal immigration. Even to address your assessment of my writing throws the emphasis in a direction I was not trying to move the dialogue. I was focused on evolving consciousness.
When you say, “by continuing to hold this dialogue on race. . .” I believe you must have misread my thinking in the past, also. I simply speak to facts of race as these facts have been evolving over time for decades – actually, for generations.
And welcome back, josef. You were missed – truly!
Midori
April 25th, 2011
6:01 pm
Hi Josef, er, “Your Majesty”
USMC
April 25th, 2011
6:03 pm
“Traditional” marriage? Aitn’t that the one that prohibits divorce and remarriage…no nookie except for procreation…get real, Bubba, if that lot is “traditional” then I’m the Queen of England…”-josef nix
And here Josef, I always thought you lived in Atlanta:-)
RW-(the original)
April 25th, 2011
6:05 pm
…then I’m the Queen of England…
We’re going to need some proof. What’s the most recent Obama speech in your iPod?
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
6:08 pm
midori
Pearls, pause, wave!
MARY ELIZABETH–
I understand what you are saying…
However, and I mean no disrespect here, I, too, moved North to escape what was all too blatant here in my native land, only to find myself target of anti-Semitism of the most vulgar kind and Unmentionable facing blatant and stated “get back to the reservation…” Now, the area where we went is known throughout the country as one of the most liberal and most progressive in matters of the “black-white dichotomy…”
USMC
April 25th, 2011
6:09 pm
Defense of Marriage Act defender resigns from law firm amid pressure from gay rights advocates:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-pn-doma-lawyer-20110425,0,2441044.story
@@
April 25th, 2011
6:12 pm
Sometimes the opportunity for fun just offers itself up, and what do I do? I have fun with it.
My husband, at a family reunion discovered his second cousin (male) was gay. Shocked is an understatement. Anyhoo, he’s sitting across from the gay cousin enjoying the usual back and forth. The cousin’s significant other is with him.
After we leave, my husband, still shocked, says “Damn! And I always liked (insert name here).” To which I responded…..”You two seemed to be having a nice conversation. Looked, to me, like you still do like him.”
Says he….”It’s his boyfriend…the guy’s a flamin’ queen!”
Says I….”So what? If he’d picked a more manly man, all would be well between the two of you?”
It went on “You know what I mean.”
“No babe, I don’t. Could you please clarify.”
Like I said….FUN!
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
6:15 pm
@@
at 6:12
So many lines, so little time…but tell him I said “inquiring minds want to know!” ISH
pogo
April 25th, 2011
6:17 pm
Mick, on second thought, I agree except for the part about Pelosi. My problem with her is that she pushed an agenda and she didn’t even understand or care about the consequences of her actions. That is what political hacks do (of either party). We will, as a nation, be undone by people with personnal political agendas and their greed for money, power and control because we want to believe in them. Though many politicians espouse to care about the “collective”, their ignorance, their greed and their political bias will destroy those very members that comprise those that they claim to care so much about. They will destroy their freedom, their pride and their personnal integrity. Everything. Meanwhile, they will live like kings. Sadly, it may have already happened.
The “middle class” is something that by large is very unique to America and politicians on both sides of the aisle including Obama are about to do away with that. And make no mistake, they are all in collusion. People can fool themselves into believing that this politician or that politician is on their side, but they are wrong. To the pols it is all about them or else they wouldn’t have chosen politics as profession. It is not what they can deliver to their constituents, it is what they can deliver to themselves. They know that if they deliver the right “line” to their base that they will be elected again and they can feast at the trough some more. They don’t have to deliver real results, they only have to deliver promises. When you come down to it, to them it is all about money and it is about power over people and the infliction on the populace of this nation of their personnal political ideology. I know that it is a synical way of looking at it.
As you said, “God Help Us”. We need some help from somewhere.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
6:18 pm
USMC
My “royal blood” is French!
Jay
April 25th, 2011
6:18 pm
Joseph raises an interesting issue. Here’s a story about the gag order:
http://metroweekly.com/news/?ak=6167
Conceivably, concern over the contract that Clement signed as K&S partner would explain why the firm withdrew, particularly if the contract in question had not been well-vetted. I’m not conversant enough in the legal industry to know whether such gag provisions are rare or somewhat standard in such situations.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 25th, 2011
6:18 pm
I’m guessing that many of the libbtards who think it’s fine to pressure lawyers not to defend DOMA are the same ones who (rightly) support lawyers defending child-rapers and cop killers.
@@
April 25th, 2011
6:22 pm
josef:
‘Twas an interesting reunion to say the least. That wasn’t the only shocker.
Now keep in mind, I’m in in-law, not an outlaw. Different situation, people were coming up to me with “Pssst, what’s the story there (pointing with the eyes).”
I say “I dunno.” Then it was “Well I heard that….blah blah blah.”
My response? “Well if you already knew, why ask me? I didn’t know ’cause I figured it was none of my business and wanted to keep it that way.”
FUN!
Mary Elizabeth
April 25th, 2011
6:29 pm
josef@ 6:08
I mean no disrespect to you, either, josef, but I must tell you what I read you are saying here. You are stating the same argument that you said to me regarding my very first posting on this blog – probably posted a year and a half ago and that is not – again, not – what I am discussing this evening. A year and a half ago, I said that I did not think that a picture Jay posted regarding racial matters was hyperbole based on my experiences growing up in Jim Crow, and then I went on to describe, in detail, my experiences to back up my thinking. That was on racial matters. This is not.
It is you who has turned my writing into a black-white dichotomy – erroneously – this evening. Please reread my full 5 paragraphs posted at 5:43 p.m. and you will see that only one sentence – though it was at the beginning – was referring to race matters. Most of the details of thoughts were on Darwin’s evolution theory, illegal immigration, same-sex marriage, John Adams, etc. Mainly, again, my main theme was on evolving consciousness.
I am sorry about your experiences, and especially about Unmentionable’s experiences in the Northwest, but those experiences are only reflective of the same provincial consciousness existing there as in other places, whatever the people in the Northwest labeled themselves as to “Liberal” or “Conservative.” I never pay heed to what labels people dress themselves as – it is their individual evolution of consiousness that interests me – beyond labels. Obviously most had not evolved there, whether they are considered liberal or not. As you know, groups don’t evolve anyway, individuals do, so that some of a group are always more evolved than others.
And again – consciousness evolves over time. That was my topic for sharing with others today, not race dichotomy.
Jay
April 25th, 2011
6:32 pm
My own guess — and it is merely that — is that internal opposition by K&S attorneys had a lot to do with the firm’s decision to withdraw. More so than pressure from clients, etc.,
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
6:34 pm
JAY
@ 6:18
Interesting read….
USMC
April 25th, 2011
6:34 pm
“My “royal blood” is French!
”
Oh, I’m sure it is your highness:-)
@@
April 25th, 2011
6:35 pm
NYU Law professor Stephen Gillers, a specialist in legal ethics, says Clement was “entirely right,” and that “King & Spalding was scared off by the prospect of becoming a pariah.” Former Clinton administration Solicitor General Seth Waxman, whose firm is on the other side of the DOMA case in opposition to the law, added that Clement’s representation in support of DOMA “is in fact in the very highest and finest traditions of our legal system.”
But some lawyers seemed to take a pass on the question. James Esseks, director of the ACLU’s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender Project, said in a statement that “no matter who represents the House Republican leadership, we’re confident that the courts will recognize that the so-called ‘Defense of Marriage Act’ is discriminatory and unconstitutional. Congress should not be wasting scarce resources on high-priced lawyers to defend this law, but instead should stand on the right side of history by … repealing DOMA once and for all.”
The ACLU doesn’t support ethics within the legal community? Interesting.
http://www.npr.org/2011/04/25/135717362/law-firm-drops-defense-of-doma
Joe Mama
April 25th, 2011
6:42 pm
Josef — “I’m by them like I am by bi-sexuals”
Buy-sexuals? That mean you gotta pay fer it?
Mountaineer
April 25th, 2011
6:44 pm
I’m not a fan of the DOMA because I’m not a fan of marriage. Marriage benefits women financially but there’s not that much in it for men anymore. So, I say let the gays legally marry and if it hastens the implosion of a totally outdated institution so much the better.
Paul
April 25th, 2011
6:45 pm
@@
Is Mr. @@’s first name “Job”?
Hi Midori!
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
6:45 pm
MARY ELIZABETH
“Ideas evolve over time in the public’s consciousness. Segregation was not thought to be “immoral” at one time – in the South’s history – by many whites. In fact, there were plenty of Jim Crow laws to back it up”
Again with respect, but you did open your comments with race-South-Jim Crow-segregation reference, framing the commentary. The point I keep trying, perhaps inarticulately, is that we seem incapable of expanding our viewpoints to see that this needs be framed in other, wider, frames of reference. By moving on to other perspectives we can begin the task of seeing this more in its totality.To dismiss our experience in the Northwest as something “provencial” is, in my opinion, allowing a laissez passer for what exists in all of human society from the most urbane and sophisticated to the most unsophisticated…
But don’t feel sorry for what we experienced…we learned an awful lot from that experience, one thing being that priviledged elite here at home, we had a target on our b*tts there…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
6:47 pm
Jay, a “gag” contract from a client would be highly unusual in representation. For example, georgias Rules of Professional Conduct 1.7(a) states: (a) A lawyer shall not represent or continue to represent a client if there is a significant risk that the lawyer’s own interests or the lawyer’s duties to another client, a former client, or a third person will materially and adversely affect the representation of the client, except as permitted in (b).
Certainly K&S has conflict and other committees to approve these types of contracts and a single partner does not have that power alone.
@@ — got any proof of an ethical violation? You did not cite one.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
6:47 pm
JOE
Joe
April 25th, 2011
6:47 pm
josef nix:
Just like a foaming at the mouth liberal. LOL… Face bud. Homo marriage has been voted on in 30+ states and the folks have rejected the idea of repulsive behavior being rewarded…. You can argue if its right or wrong till your blue in the face but the voters have spoken….
Tamika
April 25th, 2011
6:50 pm
Why have two leftie pundits on the staff when they only write from the same script. Why have a Bookman around only to echo a Tucker? Is there an original thought in the house?
Jay
April 25th, 2011
6:53 pm
Well Tamika, in this case Ms. Tucker and I have taken different positions.
She thinks it’s appropriate that King & Spalding withdrew. I don’t, at least if the reason for that withdrawal was the unpopularity of the cause rather than the provisions of the contract.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
6:53 pm
JOE
The voters have spoken…okay, are you all right with President Obama?
Repulsive behavior? Gee…given it much thought, have you? Seriously, what’s it to you? Unmentionable says to tell you he’d like to see a little more “repulsive behavior…!”
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
6:56 pm
Tamika
The Bruin and Sister C are not two peas in a pod…he’s willing to at least entertain a view other than his own. She’s not. That’s why I come here and don’t go there…
Jay
April 25th, 2011
6:57 pm
Also, TPM reports the following:
Sources with knowledge of the backlash confirm that one of King & Spalding’s top clients, Coca Cola, also based in Atlanta, directly intervened to press the firm to extricate itself from the case.
A Coca Cola spokesman declined to comment on or off the record for this story, but pointed TPM to the company’s long public history of support for equality and diversity.
It’s the real thing.
@@
April 25th, 2011
6:59 pm
Keep:
It was a by comparison thingy. Never said they (ACLU) violated ethics. Said they couldn’t bring themselves to support Clement’s ethical principles. I can only guess it’s because their LGBT clients would object.
F. Sinkwich
April 25th, 2011
7:00 pm
Perhaps AG Holder could divert some lawyer resources from the “oil speculator” witch hunt to this critical issue.
Or maybe he could unleash his lawyer bulldogs on South Carolina to assist the NLRB’s effort to establish Unions in states that don’t want them.
Or perhaps he could release his goons to hogtie companies who want to provide jobs to Americans in the energy industry.
Choices, choices.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:02 pm
JOE
Keep it to myself? You seem to know an awful lot about what you imagine goes on in privacy between me and Unmentionable…I’ve never at any point discussed our sexual activities at a personal level…that’s our business and as Mama said when one of my siblings was making a comment like yours, “well, for all I know and all they’ve said, they could just as well be cutting out paper dolls behind closed doors…” You’ve got a dirty little mind, imho…
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:03 pm
JAY
Anita Bryant ring a bell?
saywhat?
April 25th, 2011
7:06 pm
eyeroll.
Mary Elizabeth
April 25th, 2011
7:08 pm
josef – Please tell me how to get through to you this evening!
Here was my topic sentence – stated first – “Ideas evolve over time in the public’s consciousness.”
Here were the details to back it up in order of presentation:
1. Segregation and the Law
2. Scopes Trial – Darwin’s Evolution and the Law
3. Discussion of Provicialism, giving Same-Sex Marriage as ex. – and Jurors’ Decisions
4. Ideas move more progressive in time – examples given
5. IIlegal Immigrants and the present Law – laws can be changed with higher awareness
6. John Adams as example of defending unpopular causes with general public
Why did I start this discussion of ideas related to same-sex marriage in the first place? Because I had read both Cynthia’s and Jay’s columns on this same issue and whether ideas can be considered “immoral” was part of the thinking in both posts, which lead me to think that what is considered immoral today may not be tomorrow, as in same sex marriage and segregation. To be even more far reaching in evolution of consciousness – one day we may even think of illegal immigrants as people in need as we might be in their shoes and adjust our laws to at least accept the present ones into our nation as citizens by a phase in method of earning that citizenship over time – but that would take an expanded view of human beings not just a legalistic view of the letter of the law. That was the genesis of my thinking to write this evening – growning awareness and care for all outsider groups.
Please don’t focus on one word in my writing – like “provincial” or “segregation’ but try to gather the overall movement of my ideas, josef. Your words may not be like mine because our experiences are diffferent and words have different connotations to each, but I am just as aware of you of the permutations that you mention in levels of understanding. Look to the movement of my thought. The world is moving forward fairly quickly in human values, if one doesn’t measure by one’s own years on Earth.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:15 pm
MARY ELIZABETH
As I said, I do understand what you are saying, but expand and START with another dichotomy and see what you discover…I admire you, incidentally, and go to your site on a regular basis for food for thought…I’m just asking that you expand beyond the South-segegation-Jim Crow…start with any of your other examples… ask yourself why you started with that particular one…
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:16 pm
“Homo marriage has been voted on in 30+ states and the folks have rejected the idea of repulsive behavior being rewarded”
And if those states had voted…instead…to not allow blue-eyed blondes to marry, would you be ok with that too?
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:17 pm
Hi Paul
Pity — I hate Coca Cola (the taste), but now I just may have to force some down
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:18 pm
“And if those states had voted…instead…to not allow blue-eyed blondes to marry, would you be ok with that too?”
Fine by me, my eyes are green and Unmentionable’s are black…
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:18 pm
Josef – I’ve always thought that Anita Bryant was nuts.
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:22 pm
There’s obviously no good way to get through to a liberal. If you don’t agree with them you’re either a raciest or a homophobe. It’s simply mind numbing but that’s the lunacy in being a liberal. Look at homo marriage for instance. It’s not good for kids. That’s a fact but I’m sure they would argue the same tired old argument that homo’s can love just like straight people can. But honestly what kid would want to grow up in that type of environment? The STD rate among homosexuals is astounding compared to straight people. Of course this argument is hardly ever made for political correct reasons. We wouldn’t want to hurt their feelings. Sometimes the truth hurts. It’s a dangerous behavior! This again points back to liberals and their mentality. It’s like arguing with a stop sign….
USMC
April 25th, 2011
7:22 pm
Ron Paul launches Presidential Campaign:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/ron-paul-launches-presidential-campaign-20110425
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:22 pm
Midori…… drink up! or leave the state
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:23 pm
midori
Anita is one of my “heroes!” She did more for gay rights than just about anybody I can think of!
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:23 pm
” But honestly what kid would want to grow up in that type of environment?”
You tell me: what kid wants to grow up in an abusive “normal” marriage?
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
7:23 pm
Like it or not this is a Christian country and civil unions are just fine for the homosexual community and can be accepted by the majority of Americans. Political correctness, however, attempting to make practicing homosexuality a normal sexual practice through sanctioned marriage is an insult to those who view it as a perversion and an abomination in the eyes of God.
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:23 pm
Doggone/GA:
Your statement truly says alot about your intellect…. LOL… It certainly don’t merit a reply…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:24 pm
Joe
If by a “Liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “Liberal,” then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.” – JFK
TaxPayer
April 25th, 2011
7:24 pm
What is this. The law firm did not want to risk losing some major client[s] so they had to find a way to bow out gracefully. Beck and Murdock probably have a good appreciation for such a scenario.
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:25 pm
Honestly Bookman… How do you and Tucker keep your jobs??? LOL…
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:26 pm
“Like it or not this is a Christian country and civil unions are just fine for the homosexual community”
Marriage is not a Chrisitian invention and NO religion has a claim to it. Marriage is, and always has been, a LEGAL affair…not a religious one.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:26 pm
This is not a Christian country. This is a country who follows a constitution that happens to currently have a majority who are members of a number of Christian faiths.
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:26 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
You left out the part about government forcing all this upon us without consent though…..
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:27 pm
JOE
We’ve got three kids who’d argue with you…all three straight as an arrow and quite conservative in their family values they got from their home…and you raciest…well, racy, but there are those racier..
and who called you a homophobe? (I hate that miscreant term!) I just wonder why it is you “know” so much about me and my kind…and for the record, the lowest rates of STD’s are among Lesbians…
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:28 pm
Again another ignorant example of liberals gone mad. This nation was founded on Judeo-Christain values….. Do you people even read about history and the faith that our founders had????
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
7:28 pm
Ignorant intolerance is much more repulsive to me than anything two consenting adults can do sexually.
Stop the Hate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egucbj67WSY
TaxPayer
April 25th, 2011
7:29 pm
Poor Joe. He has been forced into a gay marriage against his will. The next thing you know, he’ll be told that he cannot have an abortion no matter how badly he wants it.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:30 pm
” Do you people even read about history and the faith that our founders had????”
Unfortunately for you and your argument…yes, we have.
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
7:30 pm
Great quote, Keep.
And your name says it all…
Mary Elizabeth
April 25th, 2011
7:30 pm
Ok josef – Listen to me!
I started with that example of Jim Crow because it was directly out of my experience personally and as any writer will tell you to do go for the personal because that is what has the most impact with you and therefore will with readers. No other reason. I feel you have a bias toward me in this. I did not think – “Oh no, I can’t put segregation first because that will lead josef to misunderstand me. (I can’t be concerned with that kind of thinking and get out what I need to say.) Again, that second sentence on segregation was a very, very small part of what I was trying to communicate – only one detail – but you – for some reason, IMHO, – blew it all out of proportion relative to the heart of my ideas communicated. Ask yourself why? Do you have a stereotypical thought about me lingering in that fine mind of yours? When I first learned – years and years ago – how to break out of stereotypical thinking, I learned to take each person – and each thought – on its own merit in the NOW. Encounter all without preconceived ideas, in the present. You have something about me lingering from the past, I think, because your reaction did not match what my message was in the NOW in that first post I entered this evening. I apologize for being so blunt, as I mean no harm to you, or ill will toward you – I in fact am fond of you – but I am blunt only to reach you this evening.
Thank you very much for your kind words about my blog. And your wit and humor really have been missed, as well as your warmth! Also, readers, I did not proof my last post and I know some words, like “lead” for “led,” were in error. Again, trying to balance time and accuracy – as with this post, I can’t take time to proof any more and get the message out in time.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:31 pm
RECON
“Practicing homosexuals?” Gee, I thought I was proficient…live and learn…
Good fight…
One more time…we’re a Christian country, we’re not a Christian republic…Turkey is a Muslim country, it’s a secular Republic..
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:31 pm
And who has the highest rate for STD’s by far…. Not even close??? LOL… By the way. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand the repulsive behavior you people practice…. Trust me.. It’s disgusting in the minds of almost everyone….
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
7:32 pm
Hmmm! Let’s see . . . faced with unprecedented deficits what should we do? I know a corporate tax “reform” package a la Laffer. Oh! and hey! while you’re at it let’s reform the individual tax code too!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:33 pm
Joe, without consent about what? You have the right to vote. Now talk to the people in Bent Harbor MI about “without consent” when the Republicans appoint a dictator over the city.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:34 pm
“It’s disgusting in the minds of almost everyone….”
Not even close. But it is certainly true of the majority of those who are obsessed by something that is none of their business.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:36 pm
josef. we can argue the nuances and I understand what you are saying. But the nuances are too difficult in this matter for most. I don’t think conceptually you and I disagree on the crux of the mater.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:38 pm
MARY ELIZABETH
Oy! I understand you are relating to your experience as I do mine…what I want to see is our expansion into beginning with the experience of “the other,” those with whom we may not have sustained and personal contact in order to better understand the subtle commonalities that are there as much in “us” as “them.”
One of my St. Elsewhere correspondents and I make a point of discussing these issues using groups with whom we have no personal connection…it has been a truly rewarding and enlightening experience…
JOE
By far the highest rates of STD’s…surprise! It’s among the “closet cases” and, yep, males…but, hey, DADT…
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:39 pm
Good fight…
Of course I agree with what you’re saying…just doing my duties as EOI!
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
7:41 pm
There are too many marriages that are performed inside churches that debunks the argument that religion isn’t a consideration here in America. As far as the Constitution is concerned, sexual practice isn’t a protected right. The majority of States including California where it has been put to a vote of the people, marriage between a man and a woman prevails. The so called progressive movement, which is actually the hard-left movement is in serious trouble on this issue.
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
7:41 pm
I think what two consenting adults do behind their bedroom door is no one’s business but their own. I further think that if two adults find fulfillment with each other that’s all that matters. And, the rest of the World should mind their own business.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:41 pm
JOE
Yikes! The “you people” card! And in the minds of almost everyone? I doubt seriously 90% of the population gives it any thought at all…
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:43 pm
Keep – I’m a Pepsi woman!!
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:43 pm
“There are too many marriages that are performed inside churches that debunks the argument that religion isn’t a consideration here in America”
It doesn’t matter how many are. It’s still a legal contract. If the presiding religious leader doesn’t sign that little piece of paper (the marriage license) you are NOT legally married in the eyes of the law.
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:45 pm
Ennd who has the highest rate for STD’s by far…
um, judging from your posts — You?
@@
April 25th, 2011
7:46 pm
USMC:
Ron Paul launches Presidential Campaign
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2011/0405/Jesse-Ventura-considering-a-run-in-2012
Will Jesse Ventura be campaigning for RP?
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
7:46 pm
Midori! I’ve already booked our honeymoon cruise! I’ve spared no expense! I’m so excited! Anyway, back to the topic at hand! I have always found that it helps to put things into perspective!
USMC
April 25th, 2011
7:47 pm
It looks like three of the predators from last week’s Marta Hate Crime have been apprehended:
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/marta-arrests-three-in-924351.html
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:47 pm
Midori — where’s Getalife…don’t you mean a Pepsi conned?
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:49 pm
Doggone
License of Civil Union…that’s the state’s business…without it the “marriage” is not valid…it’s really that simple…if Mary or John Doe want to consider marriage a sacred rite, so be it…but as I often quote Granddaddy as saying when the local preacher took to fire and brimstond d*mnation of those unregistered with the state, “Jody, marriages are made in heaven. Civil Unions are made at the courthouse.”
USMC
April 25th, 2011
7:49 pm
As a Native Atlantan, I think I will switch to Pepsi Cola.
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
7:49 pm
These days must be hellish for you bigots. Just one generation ago, your homophobic, negrophobic hate was the norm, now you are almost universally derided as silly has-beens.
And once again, since the word is being used so cavalierly tonight, here are some REALLY repulsive people…
Look real close, cons. This is some of you…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvEsqCgkeKM
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:52 pm
Josef – I agree with you Granddaddy in theory, but *I* would take religion out of the marriage BUSINESS…and not take marriage out of the legal contract. It’s time we stood up to the tyrany of religion and stop letting it co-opt our civil contracts.
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:53 pm
Sooth!! you’re too much
I LOVE Lewis Black
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:54 pm
Keep – well USMC has made the switch
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:54 pm
AmVet…forgot to say thanks!
USMC
April 25th, 2011
7:54 pm
At least in a Gay Marriage, men will be treated equally with respect to custody, child support, division of assets, etc. during the Divorce proceedings.
Because we all know that men are getting taken out to the wood shed in divorce courts throughout the country.
Men are treated unfairly and DISCRIMINATED (there’s that word:-) against in Divorce.
Be careful what you wish for.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
7:54 pm
“It doesn’t matter how many are. It’s still a legal contract. If the presiding religious leader doesn’t sign that little piece of paper (the marriage license) you are NOT legally married in the eyes of the law.”
You’re correct about the legality component and that’s precisely why gay marriage won’t be recognized anytime soon in this country.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:55 pm
JAY
If you’re still among us,,,I did check out Friday’s offerings…here’s mine for you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w3CBdLfGqw
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:56 pm
“You’re correct about the legality component and that’s precisely why gay marriage won’t be recognized anytime soon in this country”
They already are in 4 (?) states. It’s a start.
USMC
April 25th, 2011
7:56 pm
“Keep – well USMC has made the switch “-midori
Not yet Midori, but I do have a Weeping Willow tree out back if you need a switch:-)
(those used to hurt:-)
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:59 pm
Midori…you may be judged by the company you keep.
Fortunately, there is time for you to repent and see the error of your ways.
Remember 4 out of 5 dentists prefer Trident…the 5th one is just an idiot. Don’t be that one!
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:00 pm
Doggone
There is something to be said for reclaiming the term…but still can you imagine the DOCUA (Defense of Civil Union Act)?
USMC
Now when it comes to the sh*t men catch in divorce…I’m in your choir on that one…
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
8:01 pm
The Right always seems to couch this issue in a moralist metric. The truth is that virtually all homosexuals (if this term offends anyone, I apologize in advance) are answering a biological imperative — i.e., homosexuality is innate rather than learned. And, if that be the case, what purpose is served by denigrating and vilifying homosexuals when, in reality, they did not choose to be homosexual?
USMC
April 25th, 2011
8:03 pm
“Now when it comes to the sh*t men catch in divorce…I’m in your choir on that one…”
Well here is to agreeing, Josef:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPIVb7Y0QdI
Mary Elizabeth
April 25th, 2011
8:05 pm
josef – OY is right! What you say is so needed for human dynamics, as in discussion groups with – say – one example: Christians, Jews, those of the Islamic faith, and perhaps expanded to Buddhists and others in a group encounter – but in terms of the cohesion of a 5 paragraph post, (and some complain I am too long winded right now
), I can’t address those subtle dimensions you mention within a short post and keep to my through line of thought – with the impact I want to have. What you mention involves discovery and that is great. I will think about what you say for my blog where I can express more depth, if you will, because posts can be longer there and take days to write, and I am not pressed for time. Thank you, josef.
I think you are trying to tell me that there are some dimensions in myself I am not seeing, but then that is true of all of us, isn’t it? We can all keep learning more about ourselves and others, if we keep open to it. (And sometimes that is hard for all of us to do, I know very well!)
(Four Quatrains: That which I know about myself and others know about me, too; that which I know about myself, but others do not know about me; that which I do not know about myself, but others do know about me; and that which I do not know about myself and others, likewise, do not know about me.) I was taught that in grad school in the shape of a square with four smaller squares within the larger square, each smaller square contained each thought above. Some psychology course.
Well, I probably know myself better than you might think, no matter how forceful my writing might be on a given topic here. Rest assured about that!
Have a very nice evening, josef and all. Adieu!
RW-(the original)
April 25th, 2011
8:08 pm
I’m a Pepsi woman!!
Why do all my wives have that affliction?
USMC
April 25th, 2011
8:08 pm
Gas Prices Top $1-a-Gallon Higher than Year Ago; Media Don’t Blame Obama:
http://www.mrc.org/bmi/articles/2011/Gas_Prices_Top_aGallon_Higher_than_Year_Ago_Media_Dont_Blame_Obama.html
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
8:09 pm
“There is something to be said for reclaiming the term…but still can you imagine the DOCUA (Defense of Civil Union Act)?”
Yeah, that would be fun! But part of my stance on the subject is totally practical: the vast numbers of laws on the books that refer to marriage. It would be much more efficient to simply change what is considereda a marriage than it would be to change all those laws to refer to “civil unions”
@@
April 25th, 2011
8:10 pm
The element (not meant to be derogatory) within the gay community, that has moved to force same-sex marriage into the church doctrine, did the cause a terrible disservice.
Even if ambivalent on the issue, they (church members) now see it an an inevitable battle they’d just as soon avoid.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:12 pm
USMC
Thanks for the visuals and that’s all I’m gonna say about that!
Sooth
in relation to what you were saying….I’m a perfectly happy and somewhat well adjusted gay man who’s had a life most only dream of…but choice? Gevalt! Like I’d go out and “choose” the sh*t we have to put up with…Choice? Oh, I’d go for a strapping, straight blonde Svede with a villa on Majorca…
USMC
April 25th, 2011
8:16 pm
“Thanks for the visuals and that’s all I’m gonna say about that!
”
Hey Josef, I thought you would like that. What are friends for:-)
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:17 pm
MARY ELIZABETH
Thank you for the exchange. We will continue, no doubt!
@@
There’s some validity to that point…but it depends on the “brand.” In mine, the transition was made rather smoothly…
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
8:17 pm
Jonix: I’d estimate with a 99.99% probability that you are much happier than I am! As I have said before, I live a monastic life here in the wilderness. I admire anyone who has found true happiness with another soul on this Earth. And, when all is said and done, very little else matters!
USMC
April 25th, 2011
8:22 pm
“The Right always seems to couch this issue in a moralist metric. The truth is that virtually all homosexuals (if this term offends anyone, I apologize in advance) are answering a biological imperative — i.e., homosexuality is innate rather than learned. And, if that be the case, what purpose is served by denigrating and vilifying homosexuals when, in reality, they did not choose to be homosexual?”
–Soothsayer
Most Conservatives don’t care that you are gay. I think what turns people off is the militant fringe that tries to shove it down your throat. Most of my gay friends, liberal and conservative, don’t like all of the “in your face” flag waving, goose stepping tactics that some gay people employ.
They just want to go about their business with the person(s) who they chose to be with.
What’s wrong with that?
@@
April 25th, 2011
8:22 pm
josef:
A history of the past conflicts from NPR.
Gay Rights, Religious Liberties: A Three-Act Story
Every “group” has those within who go too far. Conflicts foster division. It’s human nature.
getalife
April 25th, 2011
8:23 pm
“A commenter below ”
At least Jay could use his name.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:26 pm
Sooth
Truth be told, I’m too happy for my own good! It makes me uppity! But that’s why I get so persnickety with those who come in yammering about our sex life…that’s such a minor part of what it is we have (and getting more minor as the years wear on!)
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
8:29 pm
“Most Conservatives don’t care that you are gay. I think what turns people off is the militant fringe that tries to shove it down your throat. (I’m not going to comment on those choice of words.) Most of my gay friends, liberal and conservative, don’t like all of the “in your face” flag waving, goose stepping tactics that some gay people employ.
They just want to go about their business with the person(s) who they chose to be with.
What’s wrong with that?”
You know, I saw a bunch of “goose-stepping queers just the other day! Completely turned me off!
What gays want is that their marriages, unions, etc. be recognized for what they are: committed relationships equivalent to your marriage. In reality, there is very little difference. If you die, your spouse continues to receive your OASDI benefits from Social Security. Your spouse is covered under your health insurance at work. What do you find so particularly offensive about gay men having those same benefits?
For the record, I am not gay. I am asexual! Seriously!
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
8:33 pm
“I admire anyone who has found true happiness with another soul on this Earth. And, when all is said and done, very little else matters!”
—Soothsayer
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:36 pm
@@
Maybe I’m a fuddy-duddy, but why would you want to be some place that has made it clear you’re not welcome provided that place operates outside the state sanctioned arena? There’s way too much to be done in the public sector to go messing around challenging this, that or the other institution which has made clear their philosophical orientation…we need to pick our battles with more thought…
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
8:36 pm
This one’s for Midori! Heck, the rest of you might like it, too!
Good night everyone! Sleep tight!
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:40 pm
Sooth
That legal thingie…the hoops we have to go through on an almost daily basis keeping up with making sure our paperwork is in order…and when we were raising the kids, we had to keep a family law attorney on retainer there was so much involved which, had we been able to sign that one document, would have been totally unnecessary…
Jay
April 25th, 2011
8:40 pm
That’s a good one too, Josef. Great lyrics. And I think I like that version better than the LP cut.
USMC
April 25th, 2011
8:40 pm
“What do you find so particularly offensive about gay men having those same benefits?”
Soothsayer, I think you got me mixed up with someone else.
I never said that I was particularly offended by gay men having the same benefits.
My oldest brother was gay and died of aids, so I was exposed to his friends and people I have worked with for years. I believe in civil unions, but I am also honest enough to say that marriage is between a man and a woman as it has ALWAYS been. If you want to call your civil union a marriage, that’s your business.
Midori
April 25th, 2011
8:42 pm
Why do all my wives have that affliction?
you rat!!! so you hid MORE of them from me?????
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
8:46 pm
Completely off topic, but doesn’t Lukovich’s representation of Deal look more like Ralph Bellamy?
Just sayin’. . .
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
8:48 pm
We’re all sinners in the eye’s of the Lord, so I don’t condemn those who’re homosexual for reasons we don’t at this point truly understand. We should not condemn it but we should not celebrate it by giving homosexual behavior equal status with natural sexuality as equal with the natural union between a man and a woman.
@@
April 25th, 2011
8:49 pm
josef:
we need to pick our battles with more thought…
Has that not always been my advice? Public perception is everything.
How are we supposed to take the gay community seriously when they frame their arguments so distastefully?
Who Do We Have To Blow To Get Gay Marriage?
Cuomo and the Log Cabin Republicans are taking the right approach in NYC. They’ve got some Democratic legislators they’ll have to win over first. Republicans too, but the approach is a dignified one.
Last time they voted “NO”, one legislator (D) was, himself, outed by the gay community and the other was declared a Republican, when in fact, she’s a Democrat.
New State Senator Shirley Huntley has sunk to a new low.
Obviously worried about her standing in next month’s primary, and lagging behind in fundraising, Republican Huntley this week sent out a campaign mailer suggesting that gay rights activists are violent invaders.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:51 pm
USMC
Yours is a true conservative stance…and I can deal with it…just put that same civil union criterion on everybody wanting to make one of two…
JAY
“Who am I to blow against the wind….I know what I know, I’ll sing what I said, we come and we go, that’s a thing I keep in the back of my head…”
Yep…
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
8:53 pm
“We should not condemn it but we should not celebrate it by giving homosexual behavior equal status with natural sexuality as equal with the natural union between a man and a woman.”
So I guess that whole “all men are created equal” thing in the Declaration of Independence doesn’t mean much to you, eh, Recon?
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:55 pm
Recon (Scout?)
Let’s see…going natural…then, again, it’s strictly for procreation and nothing else…right? I guess the sterile and post menapausal are just sinners one and all…
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:59 pm
Okay, as much fun as this one has been (and with minor exception, rather civil!) I’ve got “one of those days” ahead of me tomorrow, so better go get myself ready to take arms against a sea of troubles…g’night…
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
9:01 pm
“So I guess that whole “all men are created equal” thing in the Declaration of Independence doesn’t mean much to you, eh, Recon?”
Frankly, no because there’s isn’t any connection.
Smeat
April 25th, 2011
9:07 pm
Ron Paul will announce his run for POTUS tomorrow.
The “Godfather”, who started the Tea Party movement in 2007, is exactly what America needs to lead us for the next eight years.
Stop the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. Abolish the Federal Reserve System and the IRS. Return the USA to a system of Lawful Money and limited Constitutional Government.
Read, “Paper Money and Tyranny” – published Sept. 5, 2003 by Dr. Ron Paul
http://www.fame.org/pdf/Paper%20Money%20and%20Tyranny.pdf
The essay is only 15 pages long, takes about 10 minutes to read and hits the bullseye concerning American fiscal policy right now.
RINOs and Progressives hate it but they can’t argue against it without sounding like Tools of the BullStuff Machine.
Revolution 2012 !!
Money Bomb next week.
Ron Paul has already raised more than $3 million in 2011:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/6978-ron-paul-leads-2012-gop-hopefuls-in-first-quarter-fundraising
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:08 pm
No connection? In what way?
Can a black man marry a woman of the opposite color?
Are women to be treated equally to a man in the eyes of the law?
Why are gays supposed to be treated any differently than heterosexuals?
Because you say so?
That’s not how “equality” works, Recon.
@@
April 25th, 2011
9:10 pm
just put that same civil union criterion on everybody wanting to make one of two…
I’ve got everyone convinced that my husband and I are living in sin and that our child is illegitimate.
I’ll be happy to call ours a civil union although when I’m having “FUN” my husband doesn’t find it particularly civil.
schnirt
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
9:13 pm
“That’s not how “equality” works, Recon.”
Dave R. tell that to the American people of whom, I’m only one.
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:14 pm
“I’ll be happy to call ours a civil union although when I’m having “FUN” my husband doesn’t find it particularly civil.”
Left to my fertile imagination, @@, I can only conclude that I’m learning way too much about your personal life.
RW-(the original)
April 25th, 2011
9:15 pm
so you hid MORE of them from me?????
Remember that “exchange student” in the guest room?
@@
April 25th, 2011
9:16 pm
Smeat:
I’ll ask you the same question I asked USMC.
Jesse Ventura has been on of Paul’s leading advocates. Will he campaign for RP?
Ventura is w-a-a-a-y out there….as in “9/11 was an inside job”.
Also, African Americans have declared Paul to be a racist of the worst kind. I’m not convinced he isn’t.
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:18 pm
Recon, the American people occasionally get things wrong, such as the Presidential election of 2008 which brought us Hope & Punt ™.
And saying that others make it so is a cop-out on your part.
Don’t you have an opinion? Do you personally agree or disagree that gays should be treated equally or not?
Remember, there are no degrees of equality; only equal or not equal.
Where do YOU stand?
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:19 pm
“Remember that “exchange student” in the guest room?”
It all depends on what you were exchangin’, RW
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
9:21 pm
“Where do YOU stand?”
If you don’t know where I STAND, then you haven’t been reading my posts.
@@
April 25th, 2011
9:23 pm
Dave R.:
Let’s just say I like to define myself in less than conventional ways. Leaving people to use their imagination is a wonderful thing. It’s how kids learn.
(ISH)
joseph
April 25th, 2011
9:24 pm
Jay,
thanks for showing that part of the conversation about the agreement. Folks will want to make it political. Hays said…”In reviewing this assignment further, I determined that the process used for vetting this engagement was inadequate,” he continued. “Ultimately I am responsible for any mistakes that occurred and apologize for the challenges this may have created.”
You will see tons of stuff in the next few news cycles about how everyone should deserve representation and how dare a firm do this… but at the end of the day, read the agreement and anyone can see, it would cause the firm more damage than getting out would have… i see it as no choice but to get out… I think he says this in carefully worded lawyer speak, LOL…
Thanks again for bringing this part to light.
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:24 pm
I think I do know where you stand, Recon.
I’d just like for you to admit in precise words that you believe in two versions of equality; one for straight men and women, and one for gays, and defend your stance on the basis of the definition of “equality”.
Jay
April 25th, 2011
9:27 pm
Joseph, if that gag agreement was truly the problem, K&S ought to come out and say that was the problem.
Midori
April 25th, 2011
9:34 pm
Remember that “exchange student” in the guest room?
one of the MANY reasons I exchanged you!!
maude
April 25th, 2011
9:39 pm
And understandably so, that when you’re in legal jeopardy, you really cannot put yourself in a position to open yourself up to the media.
Monica Lewinsky
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
9:39 pm
“I’d just like for you to admit in precise words that you believe in two versions of equality; one for straight men and women, and one for gays, and defend your stance on the basis of the definition of “equality”.”
Well now you’re trying to have me confirm what it is that you want me to believe and then defend what you want me to believe, so you can pass judgement. Sorry, but a bit too stupid for me to continue. You have a nice evening.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
9:40 pm
Jay, most attorneys will err on the side of vagueness in court or public statements regarding withdrawal or termination. When an attorney withdraws the firm may be obligated to keep confidential the facts that constitue an explanation and must take all reasonable steps to mitigate consequences. K&S would generally err on the side of being conservative. Note also:under the subsection (b) (3) and comment (7): The lawyer also may withdraw where the client insists on a repugnant or imprudent objective.
http://gabar.org/handbook/part_iv_after_january_1_2001_-_georgia_rules_of_professional_conduct/rule_116_declining_or_terminating_representation/
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
9:41 pm
Well this is topical and timely, I believe that Kate Middleton could turn some of you guys straight. She is hot, her accent is killer, she is smart, and seems to be completely interesting on all levels. If Charles slips up at all, I could move in. Well, if I were better looking, I would definitely have a chance. And richer, of course. And more interesting, but then I would be in like Flint. What I am saying is that I have a chance.
Redneck Convert (R---and proud of it)
April 25th, 2011
9:41 pm
Well, seems to me Scout changes names more often than WOW, Grand Forks, LA, etc.
Have a good night everybody.
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:44 pm
No, Recon, I want you to defend what YOU believe, plain and simple.
“There is no try – only do”. – Master Yoda
“There is no mostly equal – only equal or not equal”. – Dave R.
maude
April 25th, 2011
9:47 pm
“he who smelt it, dealt it”- Dave R.
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:48 pm
I find it amazing how many conservatives, who bellow about how much they cherish the U.S. Constitution, run away from it on this issue.
All the time.
You’d think some of them would develop a spine when it comes to matters of principle, but they fold like lawn chairs when confronted with gay issues.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
9:50 pm
Bing… you might want to be sure about who you are waiting to stumble….if you are waiting for Charles to stumble, you may find yourself sleep with a horse.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
April 25th, 2011
9:50 pm
Well, I certainly did not change my handle today and Mr. Jay himself can attest to that. He sees the IP addresses.
Jay
April 25th, 2011
9:51 pm
I understand that, Good Fight. On the other hand, Clement was not exactly shy about justifying the move from his own point of view. Right now, that’s the only explanation on the record.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
April 25th, 2011
9:51 pm
I haven’t had time to read all of these posts but I guess it’s:
“Queen and Spalding” now ?
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
9:51 pm
Dave R. why should I defend what I say. This is an opinion blog and I think you’re being a bit sanctimonious in your own beliefs. Why don’t you defend your own position? Thus far you haven’t.
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
9:52 pm
What is this….Monday? The wedding is Friday, that gives me 3 days to get to England, get better looking, richer, get a personality, and somehow meet Kate. If she would only give me a chance, I know she would like me. I guess I better get a shower and pack, wish me luck!!
Jay
April 25th, 2011
9:52 pm
And yes, I can vouch that Scout has not been posting under any but his usual name.
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:55 pm
“Why don’t you defend your own position? Thus far you haven’t.”
Let’s see . . .
Since I believe in equality in every sense of the word, my position would be that gays should have full marriage rights – no exceptions.
Clear enough for ya’ ?
Redneck Convert (R---and proud of it)
April 25th, 2011
9:56 pm
And yes, I can vouch that Scout has not been posting under any but his usual name.
Dang! Sure sounded like him. I guess I was wrong for the second or third time in my life. Dave R. has me beat bad. He’s never wrong. Just ask him.
Yippee
April 25th, 2011
9:56 pm
““Queen and Spalding” now ?”
Damn funny! Hey now, relax. On here all groups get fun poked at them. Don’t go there with poked either
RW-(the original)
April 25th, 2011
9:56 pm
BADA BING,
Take her some freaky hats. The girl loves her hats and if you can find a Kentucky Derby hat-shop that hasn’t sold out yet, you’ll sweep her away before William knows what hit him.
maude
April 25th, 2011
9:56 pm
I can vouch that Scout is a definite homophobe for whatever that’s worth….
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
9:58 pm
I can’t wait for Kate to see my nice, paid for house. It is not a huge house, it will be easy for her to clean and dust. She should like that, what woman wouldn’t? And new appliances to boot, lucky her!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
9:59 pm
Jay, agreed, K&S may have their hands tied as a response or it may have decided that no further comment was appropriate. Sometimes cooler heads must prevail ignoring “tit for tat”
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
10:00 pm
“Dave R. has me beat bad. He’s never wrong.”
It’s a curse, Redneck . . .
. . . but I’ve learned to live with it.
BADA BING
April 25th, 2011
10:00 pm
RW, will those freaky hats be easy to clear Customs? I don’t have any time to waste at the airport. Do you think I could talk her into wearing just a hat when I meet her?
Yippee
April 25th, 2011
10:01 pm
maude
April 25th, 2011
9:56 pm
“homophobe”
I have always wondered why it isn’t gayphobe or lesbianphobe. Can only gays use “homo” like only blacks can use the ‘N” word? I don’t have a phobia against either group, but I just wondered. (for the record I have a homosexual brother and he is usually pretty gay, except when he is sad.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
10:03 pm
Clear enough for ya’ ?
The only clarity is that it’s your opinion and doesn’t mean anything more than it’s your opinion. I disagree with your opinion.
maude
April 25th, 2011
10:05 pm
yippee,
whatever floats your boat, personally i’m a germaphobe……
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
April 25th, 2011
10:06 pm
maude:
What would you call someone who likes and respects homosexuals as human beings (i.e., josef or a loved one in their family) but despises and is repulsed by the physical acts of homsexuality and those who push that agenda on our children?
I would call them a nomal person who recognizes sexual perversion.
Kind of like the “Dog and Pony Show” down in Tiajuna.
RW-(the original)
April 25th, 2011
10:06 pm
will those freaky hats be easy to clear Customs?
SoCo,
Can you help BADA out on this one?
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
10:10 pm
“The only clarity is that it’s your opinion and doesn’t mean anything more than it’s your opinion.”
Except that my “opinion” is based on the accepted definition of the word “equality”, and the very basis of the U.S. Constitution, Recon.
What have you got to back up yours?
@@
April 25th, 2011
10:10 pm
I’m a pomfretphobe.
Attacked by an organ grinder’s monkey. It was traumatic.
maude
April 25th, 2011
10:10 pm
scout,
i miss your quaint and humorless “don’t ask, don’t tail” blog spews….
USMC
April 25th, 2011
10:12 pm
“I can vouch that Scout is a definite homophobe for whatever that’s worth…”-Maude
What’s the matter Maude? Did Scout run when he noticed your manly adam’s apple:-)
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
10:14 pm
“Kind of like the “Dog and Pony Show” down in Tiajuna.”
1811 beastality is a whole new different subject. We will need to get PETA rep’s involved.
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
10:14 pm
“What would you call someone who likes and respects homosexuals as human beings (i.e., josef or a loved one in their family) but despises and is repulsed by the physical acts of homsexuality and those who push that agenda on our children?”
I would call them people who aren’t really comfortable in their own skin, and narrow-minded.
And extremely nosy in being interested in what goes on in the privacy of someone else’s bedroom.
Oh, and people who use the U.S. Constitution as a punch-line.
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
10:17 pm
It’s even sadder that the very people who claim to have defended that same Constitution through their service in the Armed Forces, are the very ones who spit on it with their views on gay equality.
Yippee
April 25th, 2011
10:19 pm
If we’re talking about a narrow urethra, I would call that person Hank Hill
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
10:20 pm
“Except that my “opinion” is based on the accepted definition of the word “equality”, and the very basis of the U.S. Constitution, Recon.”
Sorry, but the United States Constitution doesn’t guarantee you sexual gratification. You’re on your own and I hope you’re okay with it.
maude
April 25th, 2011
10:21 pm
USMC,
Ignorance is bliss. You must be one happy mofo.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
10:24 pm
“Sorry, but the United States Constitution doesn’t guarantee you sexual gratification”
and this has NOTHING to do with marriage
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
10:28 pm
“and this has NOTHING to do with marriage”
Well perhaps not in your marriage but sexual gratification is important in most marriages.
USMC
April 25th, 2011
10:30 pm
“Ignorance is bliss. You must be one happy mofo.”
You sound angry, maude.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
10:30 pm
“Well perhaps not in your marriage but sexual gratification is important in most marriages”
there’s nothing in a legal marriage contract that guarantees ANYONE sexual gratification in their marriage. And you don’t need to be married to have sex
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
10:30 pm
“Sorry, but the United States Constitution doesn’t guarantee you sexual gratification.”
Your knowledge of the Constitution is only exceeded by your knowledge of the word “equality”.
Neither of which you know.
maude
April 25th, 2011
10:32 pm
I mean, you want to know if I’m moral enough to join your army, to burn women, kids, houses, and villages, after bein’ a litterbug? — Arlo Guthrie, “Alice’s Restaurant”
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
10:34 pm
Tell me Scout and Recon, what’s it feel like to spit on the very Constitution you each swore to uphold?
Someone of uncompromising principle when it comes to equality (and many other things) wants to know.
getalife
April 25th, 2011
10:35 pm
I am ihavenophobes.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
10:36 pm
“Neither of which you know.”
I’m sadly certain that it’s very difficult for you Dave but try to have an enjoyable night.
Yippee
April 25th, 2011
10:36 pm
mofo?!? mofo?!? Pair that with a manly adam’s apple and I guess there’s no question.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
10:39 pm
Dave R. – I think it’s safe to say that Recon would label you – at best – a RINO, or – at worst – a liberal
Yippee
April 25th, 2011
10:39 pm
To be sure; I am a five-dollar-a-gallon-ophobe.
Smeat
April 25th, 2011
10:41 pm
For @@,
I am looking at a 1oz Silver Eagle Proof Coin made by The US Mint. It is legal tender for One Dollar but it worth about $45.92 just for the silver content as of closing today on the market.
Why?
My question is —- Why is The USA required to manufacture gold and silver coins as legal tender when they are obviously worth much more based on weight and content of precious metal?
Why not call a 1oz Silver Eagle a $45 bill instead of a worthless $1 Federal Reserve Note?
Gold and Silver have historical value and have been consistent for hundreds of years but our dollar is inflated and made made less valuable by The Fed.
Want proof? A quarter made before 1964 contained 90% silver and 10% copper. It weighs 6.5 grams. Do the math… at $46 per oz on today’s market price that metal is worth approx $2.75.
This is how our government, both right and left, created the mess we have now.
Fiat money sux!
Ron Paul 2012 !!
Someone earlier mentioned a wackojobbo who likes Dr. Paul…. Shall I mention the wackjobs who supported Bush and Obama?
Fix the monetary policy. Bring all our troops home from everywhere. Stay out of other countries affairs. Abolish The Patriot Act. Let the free market system work without guvmint interference. Keep the guvmint out of my personal life.
If you’re a loser dropout with 4 kids and struggling that’s your problem resulting from your poor choices.
My success has been earned the hard way.
Who is John Galt ??
getalife
April 25th, 2011
10:45 pm
smeat is a governmentphobe.
Yippee
April 25th, 2011
10:45 pm
Well, now I guess I am a papermoneyphobe.
maude
April 25th, 2011
10:49 pm
john galt is a fictional terd created by a old hag who lied in her dying days to suck on the govt. teet. her ugly motto: Reason is everything. Religion is a fraud. Selfishness is a virtue. Altruism is a crime against human excellence. Self-sacrifice is weakness. Weakness is contemptible.
Smeat
April 25th, 2011
10:49 pm
getalife and yippee are nursing the guvmint teet.
I’d wish y’all good luck but you wouldn’t know how to manage success ya twitz…..
Smeat
April 25th, 2011
10:52 pm
Let the hate spew —-
I recall these are the same folks who couldn’t get thru a Dr. Suess book without being perplexed…. LMAO
getalife
April 25th, 2011
10:53 pm
smeat,
I am retired.
Good luck chasing success with that attitude.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
10:53 pm
Smeat – you’re overlooking the fact that neither gold nor silver, or paper money for that matter, have any intrinsic value in-and-of themselves. They have only the arbitrary value that we choose to give them. If we are valuing something intrinsically – water and salt would be the most valuable things on earth, since we can’t surive without them.
Kamchak
April 25th, 2011
10:55 pm
I recall these are the same folks who couldn’t get thru a Dr. Suess[sic] book without being perplexed….
That would be Dr. Seuss for those that can spell.
Smeat
April 25th, 2011
10:58 pm
Doggone –
You forgot wheat, corn, oil and other commodities. Supply and demand works.
Government price controls and distribution according to needs FAIL !!
Capitalism works for those who work. Marxism is only for those who spend their days looking in others pockets and complaining about why they deserve more without putting in any effort.
maude
April 25th, 2011
10:58 pm
kamchak in the hizzle 4 shizzle
Smeat
April 25th, 2011
10:59 pm
Kamchak from Gor — Nice to see ya.
Howz your comic book fantasy utopia wurkin’ for ya?
Smeat
April 25th, 2011
11:00 pm
Have at kiddies — my wife just walked by with no top on and a new black thong.
BYE !!!!!!
maude
April 25th, 2011
11:01 pm
So, all pickpockets are marxists?
md
April 25th, 2011
11:01 pm
Oh goddy…time for the “everything is worth nothing” argument. Buyers determine the value of everything…………
Kamchak
April 25th, 2011
11:01 pm
Howz your comic book fantasy utopia wurkin’ for ya?
Much better than that fantasy by a chain smoking meth head sociopath.
Fer sure.
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 25th, 2011
11:01 pm
Just send all that unwanted paper money to “Hillbilly Deluxe”. I’ll be glad to dispose of it for ya.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
11:02 pm
“You forgot wheat, corn, oil and other commodities”
No, I didn’t. But a healthy human can live for quite a long time without food…and for a time without salt, but water in particular is absolutely critical. You can’t survive long enough to procure and make use of anything else – like food – if you don’t have water.
Yippee
April 25th, 2011
11:04 pm
@Smeat
April 25th, 2011
10:49 pm
“…a Dr. Suess book…”
The author of the Seuss books, Theodor Seuss Geisel, once wrote this: “Those that mind don’t matter, and those that matter don’t mind”
take a WAG at which category you fall into as far as I am concerned Bless your heart.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
11:04 pm
“time for the “everything is worth nothing” argument”
I don’t see anyone saying anything like that…are you sure you posted that in the correct place?
Yippee
April 25th, 2011
11:07 pm
The image of Smeat’s wife without a top and wearing a thong has made me sick. Gotta hit the head.
Good night, and God bless. (Red Skelton)
md
April 25th, 2011
11:12 pm
“I don’t see anyone saying anything like that…are you sure you posted that in the correct place?”
Absolutely…….as everything is worth nothing……….until a buyer is found.
Including gold, silver, commodities, etc……..
RW-(the original)
April 25th, 2011
11:13 pm
Glad to see Spellchak is on the overnight beat.
G’night y’all
getalife
April 25th, 2011
11:13 pm
“my wife just walked by with no top on and a new black thong.”
A first for this blog.
Pretending to have a naked wife to cut and run.
Weird.
TGT
April 25th, 2011
11:14 pm
“it’s stunning that blocking gay marriage is now considered such an unpopular cause that such a step was even necessary.
Unpopular with liberals in law fims and the White House, but not with every electorate that has ever voted on it.
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 25th, 2011
11:15 pm
Absolutely…….as everything is worth nothing……….until a buyer is found.
I agree with that, which is why I have a problem with “Fair Market Value” to determine property taxes but that’s another story for another day.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
11:17 pm
“until a buyer is found”
Nope. Anything that someone treasures has value to that person. The only “value” a buyer gives something is the value of what they have that they will exchange for it.
But that is why I used “intrinsic value” – the only things that have an absolute intrinsic value are those things which are essential to survival. Everything else has only the value we give it.
TGT
April 25th, 2011
11:17 pm
excuse me: law firms
md
April 25th, 2011
11:18 pm
“I agree with that, which is why I have a problem with “Fair Market Value” to determine property taxes but that’s another story for another day.”
And I agree with that…….let them pay me what they think it is worth, and I’ll gladly pay taxes with the leftovers.
maude
April 25th, 2011
11:18 pm
Well, I’m outa here. My old man just walked by in his best pair of tighty whities and a handful of bon bons. It’s on like donkey kong.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
11:18 pm
“but not with every electorate that has ever voted on it.”
No matter how hard we try, we can’t vote away someone’s rights. At “best” we can only postpone ensuring they enjoy those rights.
md
April 25th, 2011
11:21 pm
“Nope. Anything that someone treasures has value to that person. The only “value” a buyer gives something is the value of what they have that they will exchange for it.”
Getting into definitions again huh? For the purpose of my comment, I’m using monetary value……
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
11:24 pm
“For the purpose of my comment, I’m using monetary value……”
but even if you bring it down to money, a buyer only gives something the value they will pay for it. It might be more valuable to the owner than that, and will not be sold. So it has the monetary value – not from the buyer, but from the owner.
Gandalf, the White
April 25th, 2011
11:49 pm
Saying that DOMA is anti-gay is gay!
Gandalf, the White
April 25th, 2011
11:49 pm
Liberals are just plain silly. Why don’t you folks think every now and then?
md
April 25th, 2011
11:58 pm
“It might be more valuable to the owner than that, and will not be sold. So it has the monetary value – not from the buyer, but from the owner.”
The owner can value an item at any denomination his heart desires, but the item will never be worth more than what it sells for………….
Bob
April 26th, 2011
1:57 am
So let me get this straight. Progressives believe that anything that is considered immoral or illegal now should be allowed in the future? That includes incest, sex with animals, or child molestation. We have to see the big picture and not deny rights based on morals. Liberals are idiots.
Good little liberal
April 26th, 2011
2:16 am
Lawyers aren’t afraid to represent serial killers and are usually proud of it, but the intimidation of politically incorrect trumps killers.
Freedom is only freedom if it doesn’t hurt any liberals feelings. If it does, better not do it.
So much for our country.
TnGelding
April 26th, 2011
3:52 am
Sounds like a little authority exercised that was not approved.
Stunning and deplorable in this land of the free and tolerant. Same-sex marriage? They should be happy with domestic partnerships. Why turn a solemn occasion into a circus, especially when cross-dressing is involved?
Dave R.
April 26th, 2011
5:05 am
“So let me get this straight. Progressives believe that anything that is considered immoral or illegal now should be allowed in the future? That includes incest, sex with animals, or child molestation.”
Not even remotely true, Bob.
What people who believe in EQUALITY believe that anything between two CONSENTING ADULTS is:
a. None of your damned business, and
b.worthy of having the same rights as anyone else.
What part of “equality” do you NOT gets?
Dave R.
April 26th, 2011
5:24 am
And what is this fixation by conservatives with sex with animals, anyway?
Something going on behind closed barn doors us non-conservatives need to know about?
@@
April 26th, 2011
6:50 am
Smeat:
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not opposed to Ron Paul. I agree with a great deal of what he says. I do think his solutions are only applicable to a bygone era. Unfortunately we’ve moved well beyond that.
Last night, I listened to him naively say, when asked, how would he accomplish what he proposes. His answer?
A president can’t force decisions lest he be a dictator. He can only suggest the changes.
HECK! I always liked Jesse Ventura before his cheese slipped of the cracker.
stands for decibels
April 26th, 2011
7:33 am
mornin’.
another sign of progress–a year ago, a post on this topic from Jay would have drawn a lot more “defenders” of traditional hetero marriage.
Now? pretty half-hearted efforts, from what I scanned.
Eric
April 26th, 2011
7:33 am
H.C. – I agree that marriage is a states rights issue. Good article, Mr. Bookman.
Rightwing Troll
April 26th, 2011
7:35 am
“The Politically Correct Leftwing Radicals (you know the ones that are for free speech until they don’t agree with what you say) put a stop to King & Spalding’s representation of the House:”
Ahhhh … the power of words and ideas… radical huh? Since when is free speech and the power of the free market “radical”??? (Hint: Usually only when it sets it’s will against the “conservative” agenda…) Good luck Mr Boner… now where are the jobs? Will there be jobs after Mr. Boner and Mr. Ryan kill off W’s Medicade?
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 26th, 2011
8:03 am
Usually it is a thread about Those People that brings out the very best in the right wing’s lunatic fringe. This time it was one about Those Other People.
I’ll say it again; one of the biggest of the many huge mistakes made by the modern day GOP, was to get in bed with the hard-core, reactionary, hyper-intolerant Christian element in this country.
And why outside of a very specific, and fading, demographic, they are generally not trusted by many (most?) Americans.
And I’ve got rel bad news for them – their beloved 1950s ain’t coming back…
Good little liberal
April 26th, 2011
8:14 am
The problem with liberals is that they would fight to the death that terrorist captured on the battlefield gets all the benefits of our legal system, but people who disagree with their social stances? Not so much.
Joe Mama
April 26th, 2011
9:46 am
GLL — “The problem with liberals is that they would fight to the death that terrorist captured on the battlefield gets all the benefits of our legal system, but people who disagree with their social stances? Not so much.”
I don’t see anyone denying you your right to counsel or your right to a fair trial.
Nor anyone calling for same, either.
Hamiltion
April 27th, 2011
8:56 am
The decision of the Alston firm to withdraw was a good one. Not because the issue shouldn’t be taken on by any lawyer – any justiciable issue should have access to the courts. But lawyers (and law firms) withdraw from cases routinely when they discover that continued representation would present a potential conflict of interest within their firm. In this case, one of the contractual terms of the attorney client relationship was in conflict with other commitments within the firm. Sort of like when a lawyer takes a case, then discovers the opposing party is her husband’s best friend – or that another attorney in the firm is already taking the opposing party as a client. The only ding on the Alston firm is that they should have vetted the case in their firm more completely before taking it. Withdrawing was required by the canons of ethics if their commitment to the client could reasonably have been questioned.
Hamiltion
April 27th, 2011
8:57 am
My error, Not the Alston firm, but the King firm.
Hamilton
April 27th, 2011
9:00 am
My apologies for the error.
JTex
April 27th, 2011
11:37 pm
“All men are allowed to marry and all women are allowed to marry. Just like it has been for THOUSANDS of years.”
I always find it entertaining when morons prove that they lack education in pretty much every aspect of human history, sociology and anthropology.