King & Spalding withdraws as counsel in gay-marriage case
Earlier this month, Paul Clement, a high-powered Washington partner in the Atlanta-based law firm King & Spalding, agreed to represent House Speaker John Boehner and the House of Representatives in their effort to defend the constitutionality of the anti-gay Defense of Marriage Act.
But King & Spalding, it seems, has had second thoughts. The law firm’s chairman, Robert Hays, announced today that the firm had made a mistake in accepting the case, explaining that the decision had not been properly vetted before the announcement.
In response, Clement resigned, effective immediately. (His resignation letter can be found here.) He did so “out of the firmly held belief that a representation should not be abandoned because the client’s legal position is extremely unpopular in some quarters,” and said that he will continue to handle the case at another firm.
I can’t comment on the internal vetting process that occurred or didn’t occur at King & Spalding before Clement, who served as solicitor general under President Bush, agreed to take the case. But Clement is certainly right about the fundamental importance of even unpopular clients and causes being represented in court. Back in 2007 and 2010, you may recall, lawyers who volunteered to represent detainees at Guantanamo were attacked as unpatriotic in some quarters. So while I think Clement’s wrong and hope he loses, I’m glad he’s sticking with the case as a matter of principle.
That said, it’s stunning that blocking gay marriage is now considered such an unpopular cause that such a step was even necessary.
UPDATE at 6:20 p.m.: A commenter below points to a possible complicating factor. It appears that Clement, as a K&S partner, signed a contract with the House and Boehner in which he agreed to bar all firm employees, including those not in any way involved in the case, from publicly advocating the overturn of DOMA. It’s conceivable that those provisions of the contract stirred opposition among other K&S personnel, leading to the claim by its chairman that the engagement had not been properly vetted.
– Jay Bookman
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409 comments Add your comment
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:03 pm
JAY
Anita Bryant ring a bell?
saywhat?
April 25th, 2011
7:06 pm
eyeroll.
Mary Elizabeth
April 25th, 2011
7:08 pm
josef – Please tell me how to get through to you this evening!
Here was my topic sentence – stated first – “Ideas evolve over time in the public’s consciousness.”
Here were the details to back it up in order of presentation:
1. Segregation and the Law
2. Scopes Trial – Darwin’s Evolution and the Law
3. Discussion of Provicialism, giving Same-Sex Marriage as ex. – and Jurors’ Decisions
4. Ideas move more progressive in time – examples given
5. IIlegal Immigrants and the present Law – laws can be changed with higher awareness
6. John Adams as example of defending unpopular causes with general public
Why did I start this discussion of ideas related to same-sex marriage in the first place? Because I had read both Cynthia’s and Jay’s columns on this same issue and whether ideas can be considered “immoral” was part of the thinking in both posts, which lead me to think that what is considered immoral today may not be tomorrow, as in same sex marriage and segregation. To be even more far reaching in evolution of consciousness – one day we may even think of illegal immigrants as people in need as we might be in their shoes and adjust our laws to at least accept the present ones into our nation as citizens by a phase in method of earning that citizenship over time – but that would take an expanded view of human beings not just a legalistic view of the letter of the law. That was the genesis of my thinking to write this evening – growning awareness and care for all outsider groups.
Please don’t focus on one word in my writing – like “provincial” or “segregation’ but try to gather the overall movement of my ideas, josef. Your words may not be like mine because our experiences are diffferent and words have different connotations to each, but I am just as aware of you of the permutations that you mention in levels of understanding. Look to the movement of my thought. The world is moving forward fairly quickly in human values, if one doesn’t measure by one’s own years on Earth.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:15 pm
MARY ELIZABETH
As I said, I do understand what you are saying, but expand and START with another dichotomy and see what you discover…I admire you, incidentally, and go to your site on a regular basis for food for thought…I’m just asking that you expand beyond the South-segegation-Jim Crow…start with any of your other examples… ask yourself why you started with that particular one…
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:16 pm
“Homo marriage has been voted on in 30+ states and the folks have rejected the idea of repulsive behavior being rewarded”
And if those states had voted…instead…to not allow blue-eyed blondes to marry, would you be ok with that too?
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:17 pm
Hi Paul
Pity — I hate Coca Cola (the taste), but now I just may have to force some down
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:18 pm
“And if those states had voted…instead…to not allow blue-eyed blondes to marry, would you be ok with that too?”
Fine by me, my eyes are green and Unmentionable’s are black…
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:18 pm
Josef – I’ve always thought that Anita Bryant was nuts.
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:22 pm
There’s obviously no good way to get through to a liberal. If you don’t agree with them you’re either a raciest or a homophobe. It’s simply mind numbing but that’s the lunacy in being a liberal. Look at homo marriage for instance. It’s not good for kids. That’s a fact but I’m sure they would argue the same tired old argument that homo’s can love just like straight people can. But honestly what kid would want to grow up in that type of environment? The STD rate among homosexuals is astounding compared to straight people. Of course this argument is hardly ever made for political correct reasons. We wouldn’t want to hurt their feelings. Sometimes the truth hurts. It’s a dangerous behavior! This again points back to liberals and their mentality. It’s like arguing with a stop sign….
USMC
April 25th, 2011
7:22 pm
Ron Paul launches Presidential Campaign:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/ron-paul-launches-presidential-campaign-20110425
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:22 pm
Midori…… drink up! or leave the state
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:23 pm
midori
Anita is one of my “heroes!” She did more for gay rights than just about anybody I can think of!
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:23 pm
” But honestly what kid would want to grow up in that type of environment?”
You tell me: what kid wants to grow up in an abusive “normal” marriage?
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
7:23 pm
Like it or not this is a Christian country and civil unions are just fine for the homosexual community and can be accepted by the majority of Americans. Political correctness, however, attempting to make practicing homosexuality a normal sexual practice through sanctioned marriage is an insult to those who view it as a perversion and an abomination in the eyes of God.
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:23 pm
Doggone/GA:
Your statement truly says alot about your intellect…. LOL… It certainly don’t merit a reply…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:24 pm
Joe
If by a “Liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “Liberal,” then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.” – JFK
TaxPayer
April 25th, 2011
7:24 pm
What is this. The law firm did not want to risk losing some major client[s] so they had to find a way to bow out gracefully. Beck and Murdock probably have a good appreciation for such a scenario.
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:25 pm
Honestly Bookman… How do you and Tucker keep your jobs??? LOL…
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:26 pm
“Like it or not this is a Christian country and civil unions are just fine for the homosexual community”
Marriage is not a Chrisitian invention and NO religion has a claim to it. Marriage is, and always has been, a LEGAL affair…not a religious one.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:26 pm
This is not a Christian country. This is a country who follows a constitution that happens to currently have a majority who are members of a number of Christian faiths.
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:26 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
You left out the part about government forcing all this upon us without consent though…..
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:27 pm
JOE
We’ve got three kids who’d argue with you…all three straight as an arrow and quite conservative in their family values they got from their home…and you raciest…well, racy, but there are those racier..
and who called you a homophobe? (I hate that miscreant term!) I just wonder why it is you “know” so much about me and my kind…and for the record, the lowest rates of STD’s are among Lesbians…
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:28 pm
Again another ignorant example of liberals gone mad. This nation was founded on Judeo-Christain values….. Do you people even read about history and the faith that our founders had????
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
7:28 pm
Ignorant intolerance is much more repulsive to me than anything two consenting adults can do sexually.
Stop the Hate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egucbj67WSY
TaxPayer
April 25th, 2011
7:29 pm
Poor Joe. He has been forced into a gay marriage against his will. The next thing you know, he’ll be told that he cannot have an abortion no matter how badly he wants it.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:30 pm
” Do you people even read about history and the faith that our founders had????”
Unfortunately for you and your argument…yes, we have.
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
7:30 pm
Great quote, Keep.
And your name says it all…
Mary Elizabeth
April 25th, 2011
7:30 pm
Ok josef – Listen to me!
I started with that example of Jim Crow because it was directly out of my experience personally and as any writer will tell you to do go for the personal because that is what has the most impact with you and therefore will with readers. No other reason. I feel you have a bias toward me in this. I did not think – “Oh no, I can’t put segregation first because that will lead josef to misunderstand me. (I can’t be concerned with that kind of thinking and get out what I need to say.) Again, that second sentence on segregation was a very, very small part of what I was trying to communicate – only one detail – but you – for some reason, IMHO, – blew it all out of proportion relative to the heart of my ideas communicated. Ask yourself why? Do you have a stereotypical thought about me lingering in that fine mind of yours? When I first learned – years and years ago – how to break out of stereotypical thinking, I learned to take each person – and each thought – on its own merit in the NOW. Encounter all without preconceived ideas, in the present. You have something about me lingering from the past, I think, because your reaction did not match what my message was in the NOW in that first post I entered this evening. I apologize for being so blunt, as I mean no harm to you, or ill will toward you – I in fact am fond of you – but I am blunt only to reach you this evening.
Thank you very much for your kind words about my blog. And your wit and humor really have been missed, as well as your warmth! Also, readers, I did not proof my last post and I know some words, like “lead” for “led,” were in error. Again, trying to balance time and accuracy – as with this post, I can’t take time to proof any more and get the message out in time.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:31 pm
RECON
“Practicing homosexuals?” Gee, I thought I was proficient…live and learn…
Good fight…
One more time…we’re a Christian country, we’re not a Christian republic…Turkey is a Muslim country, it’s a secular Republic..
Joe
April 25th, 2011
7:31 pm
And who has the highest rate for STD’s by far…. Not even close??? LOL… By the way. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand the repulsive behavior you people practice…. Trust me.. It’s disgusting in the minds of almost everyone….
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
7:32 pm
Hmmm! Let’s see . . . faced with unprecedented deficits what should we do? I know a corporate tax “reform” package a la Laffer. Oh! and hey! while you’re at it let’s reform the individual tax code too!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:33 pm
Joe, without consent about what? You have the right to vote. Now talk to the people in Bent Harbor MI about “without consent” when the Republicans appoint a dictator over the city.
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:34 pm
“It’s disgusting in the minds of almost everyone….”
Not even close. But it is certainly true of the majority of those who are obsessed by something that is none of their business.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:36 pm
josef. we can argue the nuances and I understand what you are saying. But the nuances are too difficult in this matter for most. I don’t think conceptually you and I disagree on the crux of the mater.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:38 pm
MARY ELIZABETH
Oy! I understand you are relating to your experience as I do mine…what I want to see is our expansion into beginning with the experience of “the other,” those with whom we may not have sustained and personal contact in order to better understand the subtle commonalities that are there as much in “us” as “them.”
One of my St. Elsewhere correspondents and I make a point of discussing these issues using groups with whom we have no personal connection…it has been a truly rewarding and enlightening experience…
JOE
By far the highest rates of STD’s…surprise! It’s among the “closet cases” and, yep, males…but, hey, DADT…
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:39 pm
Good fight…
Of course I agree with what you’re saying…just doing my duties as EOI!
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
7:41 pm
There are too many marriages that are performed inside churches that debunks the argument that religion isn’t a consideration here in America. As far as the Constitution is concerned, sexual practice isn’t a protected right. The majority of States including California where it has been put to a vote of the people, marriage between a man and a woman prevails. The so called progressive movement, which is actually the hard-left movement is in serious trouble on this issue.
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
7:41 pm
I think what two consenting adults do behind their bedroom door is no one’s business but their own. I further think that if two adults find fulfillment with each other that’s all that matters. And, the rest of the World should mind their own business.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:41 pm
JOE
Yikes! The “you people” card! And in the minds of almost everyone? I doubt seriously 90% of the population gives it any thought at all…
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:43 pm
Keep – I’m a Pepsi woman!!
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:43 pm
“There are too many marriages that are performed inside churches that debunks the argument that religion isn’t a consideration here in America”
It doesn’t matter how many are. It’s still a legal contract. If the presiding religious leader doesn’t sign that little piece of paper (the marriage license) you are NOT legally married in the eyes of the law.
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:45 pm
Ennd who has the highest rate for STD’s by far…
um, judging from your posts — You?
@@
April 25th, 2011
7:46 pm
USMC:
Ron Paul launches Presidential Campaign
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2011/0405/Jesse-Ventura-considering-a-run-in-2012
Will Jesse Ventura be campaigning for RP?
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
7:46 pm
Midori! I’ve already booked our honeymoon cruise! I’ve spared no expense! I’m so excited! Anyway, back to the topic at hand! I have always found that it helps to put things into perspective!
USMC
April 25th, 2011
7:47 pm
It looks like three of the predators from last week’s Marta Hate Crime have been apprehended:
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/marta-arrests-three-in-924351.html
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:47 pm
Midori — where’s Getalife…don’t you mean a Pepsi conned?
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:49 pm
Doggone
License of Civil Union…that’s the state’s business…without it the “marriage” is not valid…it’s really that simple…if Mary or John Doe want to consider marriage a sacred rite, so be it…but as I often quote Granddaddy as saying when the local preacher took to fire and brimstond d*mnation of those unregistered with the state, “Jody, marriages are made in heaven. Civil Unions are made at the courthouse.”
USMC
April 25th, 2011
7:49 pm
As a Native Atlantan, I think I will switch to Pepsi Cola.
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
April 25th, 2011
7:49 pm
These days must be hellish for you bigots. Just one generation ago, your homophobic, negrophobic hate was the norm, now you are almost universally derided as silly has-beens.
And once again, since the word is being used so cavalierly tonight, here are some REALLY repulsive people…
Look real close, cons. This is some of you…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvEsqCgkeKM
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:52 pm
Josef – I agree with you Granddaddy in theory, but *I* would take religion out of the marriage BUSINESS…and not take marriage out of the legal contract. It’s time we stood up to the tyrany of religion and stop letting it co-opt our civil contracts.
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:53 pm
Sooth!! you’re too much
I LOVE Lewis Black
Midori
April 25th, 2011
7:54 pm
Keep – well USMC has made the switch
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:54 pm
AmVet…forgot to say thanks!
USMC
April 25th, 2011
7:54 pm
At least in a Gay Marriage, men will be treated equally with respect to custody, child support, division of assets, etc. during the Divorce proceedings.
Because we all know that men are getting taken out to the wood shed in divorce courts throughout the country.
Men are treated unfairly and DISCRIMINATED (there’s that word:-) against in Divorce.
Be careful what you wish for.
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
7:54 pm
“It doesn’t matter how many are. It’s still a legal contract. If the presiding religious leader doesn’t sign that little piece of paper (the marriage license) you are NOT legally married in the eyes of the law.”
You’re correct about the legality component and that’s precisely why gay marriage won’t be recognized anytime soon in this country.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
7:55 pm
JAY
If you’re still among us,,,I did check out Friday’s offerings…here’s mine for you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w3CBdLfGqw
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
7:56 pm
“You’re correct about the legality component and that’s precisely why gay marriage won’t be recognized anytime soon in this country”
They already are in 4 (?) states. It’s a start.
USMC
April 25th, 2011
7:56 pm
“Keep – well USMC has made the switch “-midori
Not yet Midori, but I do have a Weeping Willow tree out back if you need a switch:-)
(those used to hurt:-)
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 25th, 2011
7:59 pm
Midori…you may be judged by the company you keep.
Fortunately, there is time for you to repent and see the error of your ways.
Remember 4 out of 5 dentists prefer Trident…the 5th one is just an idiot. Don’t be that one!
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:00 pm
Doggone
There is something to be said for reclaiming the term…but still can you imagine the DOCUA (Defense of Civil Union Act)?
USMC
Now when it comes to the sh*t men catch in divorce…I’m in your choir on that one…
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
8:01 pm
The Right always seems to couch this issue in a moralist metric. The truth is that virtually all homosexuals (if this term offends anyone, I apologize in advance) are answering a biological imperative — i.e., homosexuality is innate rather than learned. And, if that be the case, what purpose is served by denigrating and vilifying homosexuals when, in reality, they did not choose to be homosexual?
USMC
April 25th, 2011
8:03 pm
“Now when it comes to the sh*t men catch in divorce…I’m in your choir on that one…”
Well here is to agreeing, Josef:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPIVb7Y0QdI
Mary Elizabeth
April 25th, 2011
8:05 pm
josef – OY is right! What you say is so needed for human dynamics, as in discussion groups with – say – one example: Christians, Jews, those of the Islamic faith, and perhaps expanded to Buddhists and others in a group encounter – but in terms of the cohesion of a 5 paragraph post, (and some complain I am too long winded right now
), I can’t address those subtle dimensions you mention within a short post and keep to my through line of thought – with the impact I want to have. What you mention involves discovery and that is great. I will think about what you say for my blog where I can express more depth, if you will, because posts can be longer there and take days to write, and I am not pressed for time. Thank you, josef.
I think you are trying to tell me that there are some dimensions in myself I am not seeing, but then that is true of all of us, isn’t it? We can all keep learning more about ourselves and others, if we keep open to it. (And sometimes that is hard for all of us to do, I know very well!)
(Four Quatrains: That which I know about myself and others know about me, too; that which I know about myself, but others do not know about me; that which I do not know about myself, but others do know about me; and that which I do not know about myself and others, likewise, do not know about me.) I was taught that in grad school in the shape of a square with four smaller squares within the larger square, each smaller square contained each thought above. Some psychology course.
Well, I probably know myself better than you might think, no matter how forceful my writing might be on a given topic here. Rest assured about that!
Have a very nice evening, josef and all. Adieu!
RW-(the original)
April 25th, 2011
8:08 pm
I’m a Pepsi woman!!
Why do all my wives have that affliction?
USMC
April 25th, 2011
8:08 pm
Gas Prices Top $1-a-Gallon Higher than Year Ago; Media Don’t Blame Obama:
http://www.mrc.org/bmi/articles/2011/Gas_Prices_Top_aGallon_Higher_than_Year_Ago_Media_Dont_Blame_Obama.html
Doggone/GA
April 25th, 2011
8:09 pm
“There is something to be said for reclaiming the term…but still can you imagine the DOCUA (Defense of Civil Union Act)?”
Yeah, that would be fun! But part of my stance on the subject is totally practical: the vast numbers of laws on the books that refer to marriage. It would be much more efficient to simply change what is considereda a marriage than it would be to change all those laws to refer to “civil unions”
@@
April 25th, 2011
8:10 pm
The element (not meant to be derogatory) within the gay community, that has moved to force same-sex marriage into the church doctrine, did the cause a terrible disservice.
Even if ambivalent on the issue, they (church members) now see it an an inevitable battle they’d just as soon avoid.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:12 pm
USMC
Thanks for the visuals and that’s all I’m gonna say about that!
Sooth
in relation to what you were saying….I’m a perfectly happy and somewhat well adjusted gay man who’s had a life most only dream of…but choice? Gevalt! Like I’d go out and “choose” the sh*t we have to put up with…Choice? Oh, I’d go for a strapping, straight blonde Svede with a villa on Majorca…
USMC
April 25th, 2011
8:16 pm
“Thanks for the visuals and that’s all I’m gonna say about that!
”
Hey Josef, I thought you would like that. What are friends for:-)
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:17 pm
MARY ELIZABETH
Thank you for the exchange. We will continue, no doubt!
@@
There’s some validity to that point…but it depends on the “brand.” In mine, the transition was made rather smoothly…
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
8:17 pm
Jonix: I’d estimate with a 99.99% probability that you are much happier than I am! As I have said before, I live a monastic life here in the wilderness. I admire anyone who has found true happiness with another soul on this Earth. And, when all is said and done, very little else matters!
USMC
April 25th, 2011
8:22 pm
“The Right always seems to couch this issue in a moralist metric. The truth is that virtually all homosexuals (if this term offends anyone, I apologize in advance) are answering a biological imperative — i.e., homosexuality is innate rather than learned. And, if that be the case, what purpose is served by denigrating and vilifying homosexuals when, in reality, they did not choose to be homosexual?”
–Soothsayer
Most Conservatives don’t care that you are gay. I think what turns people off is the militant fringe that tries to shove it down your throat. Most of my gay friends, liberal and conservative, don’t like all of the “in your face” flag waving, goose stepping tactics that some gay people employ.
They just want to go about their business with the person(s) who they chose to be with.
What’s wrong with that?
@@
April 25th, 2011
8:22 pm
josef:
A history of the past conflicts from NPR.
Gay Rights, Religious Liberties: A Three-Act Story
Every “group” has those within who go too far. Conflicts foster division. It’s human nature.
getalife
April 25th, 2011
8:23 pm
“A commenter below ”
At least Jay could use his name.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:26 pm
Sooth
Truth be told, I’m too happy for my own good! It makes me uppity! But that’s why I get so persnickety with those who come in yammering about our sex life…that’s such a minor part of what it is we have (and getting more minor as the years wear on!)
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
8:29 pm
“Most Conservatives don’t care that you are gay. I think what turns people off is the militant fringe that tries to shove it down your throat. (I’m not going to comment on those choice of words.) Most of my gay friends, liberal and conservative, don’t like all of the “in your face” flag waving, goose stepping tactics that some gay people employ.
They just want to go about their business with the person(s) who they chose to be with.
What’s wrong with that?”
You know, I saw a bunch of “goose-stepping queers just the other day! Completely turned me off!
What gays want is that their marriages, unions, etc. be recognized for what they are: committed relationships equivalent to your marriage. In reality, there is very little difference. If you die, your spouse continues to receive your OASDI benefits from Social Security. Your spouse is covered under your health insurance at work. What do you find so particularly offensive about gay men having those same benefits?
For the record, I am not gay. I am asexual! Seriously!
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
8:33 pm
“I admire anyone who has found true happiness with another soul on this Earth. And, when all is said and done, very little else matters!”
—Soothsayer
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:36 pm
@@
Maybe I’m a fuddy-duddy, but why would you want to be some place that has made it clear you’re not welcome provided that place operates outside the state sanctioned arena? There’s way too much to be done in the public sector to go messing around challenging this, that or the other institution which has made clear their philosophical orientation…we need to pick our battles with more thought…
Soothsayer
April 25th, 2011
8:36 pm
This one’s for Midori! Heck, the rest of you might like it, too!
Good night everyone! Sleep tight!
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:40 pm
Sooth
That legal thingie…the hoops we have to go through on an almost daily basis keeping up with making sure our paperwork is in order…and when we were raising the kids, we had to keep a family law attorney on retainer there was so much involved which, had we been able to sign that one document, would have been totally unnecessary…
Jay
April 25th, 2011
8:40 pm
That’s a good one too, Josef. Great lyrics. And I think I like that version better than the LP cut.
USMC
April 25th, 2011
8:40 pm
“What do you find so particularly offensive about gay men having those same benefits?”
Soothsayer, I think you got me mixed up with someone else.
I never said that I was particularly offended by gay men having the same benefits.
My oldest brother was gay and died of aids, so I was exposed to his friends and people I have worked with for years. I believe in civil unions, but I am also honest enough to say that marriage is between a man and a woman as it has ALWAYS been. If you want to call your civil union a marriage, that’s your business.
Midori
April 25th, 2011
8:42 pm
Why do all my wives have that affliction?
you rat!!! so you hid MORE of them from me?????
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
8:46 pm
Completely off topic, but doesn’t Lukovich’s representation of Deal look more like Ralph Bellamy?
Just sayin’. . .
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
8:48 pm
We’re all sinners in the eye’s of the Lord, so I don’t condemn those who’re homosexual for reasons we don’t at this point truly understand. We should not condemn it but we should not celebrate it by giving homosexual behavior equal status with natural sexuality as equal with the natural union between a man and a woman.
@@
April 25th, 2011
8:49 pm
josef:
we need to pick our battles with more thought…
Has that not always been my advice? Public perception is everything.
How are we supposed to take the gay community seriously when they frame their arguments so distastefully?
Who Do We Have To Blow To Get Gay Marriage?
Cuomo and the Log Cabin Republicans are taking the right approach in NYC. They’ve got some Democratic legislators they’ll have to win over first. Republicans too, but the approach is a dignified one.
Last time they voted “NO”, one legislator (D) was, himself, outed by the gay community and the other was declared a Republican, when in fact, she’s a Democrat.
New State Senator Shirley Huntley has sunk to a new low.
Obviously worried about her standing in next month’s primary, and lagging behind in fundraising, Republican Huntley this week sent out a campaign mailer suggesting that gay rights activists are violent invaders.
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:51 pm
USMC
Yours is a true conservative stance…and I can deal with it…just put that same civil union criterion on everybody wanting to make one of two…
JAY
“Who am I to blow against the wind….I know what I know, I’ll sing what I said, we come and we go, that’s a thing I keep in the back of my head…”
Yep…
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
8:53 pm
“We should not condemn it but we should not celebrate it by giving homosexual behavior equal status with natural sexuality as equal with the natural union between a man and a woman.”
So I guess that whole “all men are created equal” thing in the Declaration of Independence doesn’t mean much to you, eh, Recon?
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:55 pm
Recon (Scout?)
Let’s see…going natural…then, again, it’s strictly for procreation and nothing else…right? I guess the sterile and post menapausal are just sinners one and all…
josef nix
April 25th, 2011
8:59 pm
Okay, as much fun as this one has been (and with minor exception, rather civil!) I’ve got “one of those days” ahead of me tomorrow, so better go get myself ready to take arms against a sea of troubles…g’night…
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
9:01 pm
“So I guess that whole “all men are created equal” thing in the Declaration of Independence doesn’t mean much to you, eh, Recon?”
Frankly, no because there’s isn’t any connection.
Smeat
April 25th, 2011
9:07 pm
Ron Paul will announce his run for POTUS tomorrow.
The “Godfather”, who started the Tea Party movement in 2007, is exactly what America needs to lead us for the next eight years.
Stop the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. Abolish the Federal Reserve System and the IRS. Return the USA to a system of Lawful Money and limited Constitutional Government.
Read, “Paper Money and Tyranny” – published Sept. 5, 2003 by Dr. Ron Paul
http://www.fame.org/pdf/Paper%20Money%20and%20Tyranny.pdf
The essay is only 15 pages long, takes about 10 minutes to read and hits the bullseye concerning American fiscal policy right now.
RINOs and Progressives hate it but they can’t argue against it without sounding like Tools of the BullStuff Machine.
Revolution 2012 !!
Money Bomb next week.
Ron Paul has already raised more than $3 million in 2011:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/6978-ron-paul-leads-2012-gop-hopefuls-in-first-quarter-fundraising
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:08 pm
No connection? In what way?
Can a black man marry a woman of the opposite color?
Are women to be treated equally to a man in the eyes of the law?
Why are gays supposed to be treated any differently than heterosexuals?
Because you say so?
That’s not how “equality” works, Recon.
@@
April 25th, 2011
9:10 pm
just put that same civil union criterion on everybody wanting to make one of two…
I’ve got everyone convinced that my husband and I are living in sin and that our child is illegitimate.
I’ll be happy to call ours a civil union although when I’m having “FUN” my husband doesn’t find it particularly civil.
schnirt
Recon (2nd.and 3rd.)
April 25th, 2011
9:13 pm
“That’s not how “equality” works, Recon.”
Dave R. tell that to the American people of whom, I’m only one.
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:14 pm
“I’ll be happy to call ours a civil union although when I’m having “FUN” my husband doesn’t find it particularly civil.”
Left to my fertile imagination, @@, I can only conclude that I’m learning way too much about your personal life.
RW-(the original)
April 25th, 2011
9:15 pm
so you hid MORE of them from me?????
Remember that “exchange student” in the guest room?
@@
April 25th, 2011
9:16 pm
Smeat:
I’ll ask you the same question I asked USMC.
Jesse Ventura has been on of Paul’s leading advocates. Will he campaign for RP?
Ventura is w-a-a-a-y out there….as in “9/11 was an inside job”.
Also, African Americans have declared Paul to be a racist of the worst kind. I’m not convinced he isn’t.
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:18 pm
Recon, the American people occasionally get things wrong, such as the Presidential election of 2008 which brought us Hope & Punt ™.
And saying that others make it so is a cop-out on your part.
Don’t you have an opinion? Do you personally agree or disagree that gays should be treated equally or not?
Remember, there are no degrees of equality; only equal or not equal.
Where do YOU stand?
Dave R.
April 25th, 2011
9:19 pm
“Remember that “exchange student” in the guest room?”
It all depends on what you were exchangin’, RW