Atlanta school board gets the message … right?
By signing Senate Bill 79, Gov. Nathan Deal has given himself authority to suspend school board members in any district that has lost or is in serious danger of losing its accreditation.
Say, for example, a certain embattled school board in a certain capital city with a certain investigation underway involving alleged cheating by teachers and administrators?
Yup, that very one.
Deal says he hopes never to have to use that authority, and there’s no reason to doubt his sincerity. Stripping duly elected public officials of the power given them by voters ought to be a last resort, and as a rule, governors don’t like to get involved in school board politics. For those and other reasons, the legislation is a purely symbolic statement of state concern about the way the Atlanta School Board has conducted itself.
But if necessary, it could become something more. The new law, if approved by the U.S. Justice Department, would also allow Deal to appoint temporary board members to carry out the duties of those who were suspended.
Certainly, the legislation was a better option than the other idea being kicked around at the Capitol, which was to hand control of Atlanta schools to Mayor Kasim Reed. Conditions in the district are not dire enough to justify such a drastic step, and Reed, for all his ability, has enough on his plate running the city and serving as the state’s ombudsman to the Obama administration in Washington.
In fact, the mayor might have thought twice about the wisdom of extending his mandate to education after witnessing the career arc of Adrian Fenty, the young, reform-minded mayor of Washington. Elected in 2006, Fenty demanded and soon got the power to run the troubled D.C. school system, but the backlash eventually cost him re-election and perhaps a once-promising political career.
To take the parallel a step farther, the reformist reputations of Fenty and the chancellor he appointed, Michelle Rhee, have recently been called into question by evidence of widespread cheating by teachers and administrators on standardized tests in the D.C. district. Like Beverly Hall, her counterpart in Atlanta, Rhee relied heavily on those tests both as a tool in operating the system and in demonstrating progress to a skeptical public.
“Her theory seemed to be that if she pushed incentives and sanctions hard enough, the scores would rise,” education expert Diane Ravich wrote. “Her theory was right, the scores did rise, but they didn’t represent genuine learning. She incentivized desperate behavior in principals and teachers trying to save their jobs and meet their targets and comply with their boss’ demands.”
Does that seems oddly familiar?
In the end, the outcome of Atlanta’s as-yet unresolved cheating scandal and the hiring of a new superintendent this summer will have a much larger impact on the education of its students than the passing dysfunctions of its school board. In fact, the board’s reluctance to supervise Hall and to force an honest investigation into cheating allegations represented a much more important failure than its backbiting and bickering.
With the school year coming to a close, it would be nice to be able to close the books on that failure and look forward. The threatened loss of accreditation and the bill signed by the governor ought to suffice to keep the board focused. The imminent departure of Hall and the selection of a replacement offer still more opportunity to look ahead.
Unfortunately, the uncompleted state investigation — a probe that was launched last August, eight months ago now — makes that impossible. That probe was begun by the governor’s office, and its report is overdue. Investigators have suggested that criminal charges are possible, and building such cases can take time. But at this point, with educations at stake, pursuing charges is less critical than identifying the problems quickly and fixing them.
– Jay Bookman
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304 comments Add your comment
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
11:25 am
ug is bringing back the legal abortion is murder argument……except murder is defined by laws.
ug got a citation to law to prove your claim? you’re certainly not wowing anyone with your style.
getalife
April 22nd, 2011
11:27 am
“Why are none of the black or white bloggers demanding a ban of dumbcrkr….come on lets talk about a double standard.”
Why are you crying like a baby?
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:27 am
Keep….how many counts of murder what Scott Checkoway convicted of?
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:27 am
Keep….I meant Scott Peterson.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:28 am
Keep…..I would say this would sum it up pretty good….
mur·der/ˈmərdər/
Noun: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:30 am
Getalife…..is this the intelligent leftist voter you were referring to?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4c9_1303414210
dumbcrkr
April 22nd, 2011
11:31 am
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
10:50 am
“Getalife….because the Demons and black are too uneducated”
And you’re whinning for what reason? Double standard?
Jackie
April 22nd, 2011
11:32 am
Let’s compare the schools in GA to those in NC. The Raleigh/Wake County schools are considered some of the best in the country, yet, they are being investigated because they went to the extreme of trying to implement a “choice option” in the system wherein folks that lived in gated communities wanted their children to attend schools only within that community.
The situation reached the point where the newly elected school board members forced the Superintendent to resign, even though he was considered among the best of the best, nationwide. The issue was not about academic achievement, but, about allowing the so-called conservatives free reign over school assignments.
Should the state have stepped in a taken away the authority of the school administration?
AmVet
April 22nd, 2011
11:32 am
Abortion is murder.
But ONLY in the Republican Dictionary of Made Up Definitions.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
11:32 am
ug…you have yet to cite a law. You cite a definition that starts “the unlawful”
SO where’s the law? You have 50 states and the US Fed Code to chose from. Show us that abortions permitted under Roe v Wade is murder.
PS: Scott Peterson killed a wife with unborn child. But if you have evidence that he was a doctor performing an abortion, please provide it.
atlmom
April 22nd, 2011
11:32 am
the reality is that deal only cares about places like atlanta…what about the failing rural systems (as jay pointed out)? there’s no cry for the gov’ner to do anything about that.
Why? well, i’ll let y’all figure it out.
Have we yet come to the conclusion that the way we’ve been doing things for many years isn’t working? Perhaps let’s try something radically different. We have no guarantee that hte people that deal chooses to run the schools will know any better how to do it than the people he’s replacing.
Jonas
April 22nd, 2011
11:33 am
Getalife- what the world really needs is another trash talking little man behind a blog. Go compute the square root of 3 and get back to us later.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:34 am
Keep….Scott killed his unborn child. Same as abortion = Murder…..
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:34 am
Jonas…..hahahah he is clueless.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:35 am
AmVet….in your opinion when does a child become a human?
dumbcrkr
April 22nd, 2011
11:36 am
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:34 am
Keep….Scott killed his unborn child. Same as abortion = Murder…..
You’re proving my point buddy.
Thulsa Doom
April 22nd, 2011
11:37 am
Jay
April 22nd, 2011
8:24 am
First, MiltonMan, school board races are nonpartisan.
Furthermore I could take you to rural areas of the state dominated by Republicans where the test scores are just as bad as those in APS and in many cases worse.
The socio-economic status of the student body, not the political leaning of the school board, is the most accurate predictor of test scores. That is true in every state and every country and every era.-JB
Jay,
School board races may be non-partisan but let’s be real. Everyone knows that its Dems who control the Clayton, APS, and DeKalb systems. Nice try though. And we also know that Dems control all the abysmal, failing school systems in big cities throughout the nation.
So you could take us to rural areas in the state where Republicans control the school system where test scores are as bad or worse than APS and Clayton systems? Sorry but I’m calling BS on that. Sure, you might be able to find a very few but you and I both know that would be the exception and not the rule. But if we compare all the school systems academic achievement in Republican dominated school systems vs Dem led school systems the Republican area school systems would dominate. And I suspect you know that.
Furthermore if there are indeed school systems in Republican voting areas you are being misleading again. In many of those areas the county may vote Republican but the Republicans generally send their kids to the private schools- you haven’t spent much time in rural areas have you. And even if the Repubs do send their kids en masse to the the public school the overall test scores are lower you are not factoring in the fact that these much smaller school systems have dramatically less money to spend on a per pupil basis than say the APS.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:37 am
Why was he convicted of Double homicide????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Peterson
Jackie
April 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
Many organizations have looked at the budget proposed by Rep. Ryan(R-WI) and concluded that it would be a disaster for the country.
http://www.ombwatch.org/node/11590
getalife
April 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
jonas,
The world needs less cons.
Left wing management
April 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
Little Liberal: “The most violent race riots in the country were not in Selma Alabama, they were in South Boston and lasted for 12 years. Bedford Stivenson, NY, South Chicago, the list goes on and on.”
Why is the severity of a race riot the only indicator of the violent reality of segregation? And how are the race riots in Northern cities relevant to the question of the split between Northern and Southern Democrats?
Look, we’re talking past each other here. You’re trying to make this strictly about one single party, but my point was that the racial divide in this country is such a massive and old phenomenon that it way overshoots the scope of any single party, even as it has acted as a constant fault line that cuts through the two parties, often dividing them from within (or since the Civil War at least, from which time the current party structure of course originates).
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:39 am
Jackie….many organizations have reviewed the budget policies proposed by Obama and concluded that it would be a disaster for the country.
AmVet
April 22nd, 2011
11:39 am
UGA, by the very definition you provided you are in error.
Abortion in most instances is NOT unlawful.
And I’ve got real bad news for you. There is no going back to the days when it was.
As for your question, it is above my pay grade. There are legal definitions, there are philosophical definitions, there are religious definitions.
But according to the old Jewish joke, “life begins when they go off to college”…
poison pen
April 22nd, 2011
11:39 am
AmVet
April 22nd, 2011
11:32 am
Abortion is murder.
But ONLY in the Republican Dictionary of Made Up Definitions.
AmVet, it’s time for your meds. I believe a Woman has the right to do with her body what she wants to, but I still think killing a baby is murder. Please tell us what it is, O GREAT SWAMI.
willie lynch
April 22nd, 2011
11:40 am
The sad part is no one pays attention to school board elections so there’s normally no strong critique by the voters of those who stand to be elected.
maude
April 22nd, 2011
11:40 am
The con-bloggers seriously damage Georgia’s hard-won reputation as a progressive, broad-minded, mecca of tolerance.
Jackie
April 22nd, 2011
11:41 am
@UGA
Show the link that would prove your point.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:41 am
History of party presidential elections…
Repubs 18
Dems 16
WINNING!!!
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:42 am
AmVet…so do you choose to live under the law or philosophically?
Thulsa Doom
April 22nd, 2011
11:42 am
keep up the good fight,
One thing I’ve found kind of odd over the years is that when someone kills a woman and she happens to be pregnant- whether it be 1 week or 8 months- that person is charged with 2 murders. We see this on a frequent basis. Please explain to me why if a man kills a woman who is 1- 2 months pregnant he is charged with 2 murders but if the woman aborts the child the first trimester it was never a life to begin with. Please splain the inconsistency.
dumbcrkr
April 22nd, 2011
11:42 am
Has the Supreme Court said abortion is murder?
AmVet
April 22nd, 2011
11:42 am
“…but I still think…”
More bad news, pen.
The law of the land does not care what you think.
(That makes nine straight fact-free posts, BTW…)
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
11:43 am
Ug…Scott Peterson was not a doctor performing a lawful procedure within Roe v Wade. But again if this is your claim show that the statute he was convicted under applies to lawful abortion. Provide the statute or the case that shows a doctor charged for murder for performing a lawful abortion.
You’re blowing a lot of hot air but you are not backing up your claim of murder.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:44 am
Jackie….How many would you like….
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/21/budget-panel-obama-deficit-plan-saves-advertised/
http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2011/04/21/budget-group-new-obama-budget-plan-would-fail-cause-tax-trigger-to-be-pulled/
I can keep going if you like?
getalife
April 22nd, 2011
11:44 am
doom,
The right to choose.
It will not change so why argue about it.
Deal with it.
atlmom
April 22nd, 2011
11:44 am
there are plenty of charter schools in poor areas that are flourishing. so don’t give me the whole: well, if they’re poor, they’re not going to do well.
Go watch waiting for superman. fascinating.
the problem is we seem to have a one size fits all answer. and it’s not working. we can show how after decades it’s not working.
oh, another thing, go read to kill a mockingbird. one small thing in there is an implication on our education system. from 50 years ago (yes, the book takes place earlier than that, but it was written about 50 years ago). it is interesting – a tiny part of the book, but it was eye opening when i read it.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:44 am
Keep….please revisit the legal definition of murder that I posted earlier….then read your post…..hahaha Too easy.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:45 am
Getalife….you do realize that once upon a time slavery was legal as well. It changed….the abortion law will change as well.
getalife
April 22nd, 2011
11:46 am
ug,
The President’s budget does not end Medicare.
Winning.
Duh.
Don't Tread
April 22nd, 2011
11:46 am
You can elect a new governor, sack school boards, threaten teachers and principals, bus the kids around, and throw tons of money at the schools, but all of that is just like putting a band-aid on a severed leg.
The root cause of this (and most other ills of society, if you really think about it) is people having kids, who have no business having kids.
dumbcrkr
April 22nd, 2011
11:46 am
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:44 am
Keep….please revisit the legal definition of murder that I posted earlier….then read your post…..hahaha Too easy.
So then turning off someone’s life support system would be murder?
getalife
April 22nd, 2011
11:47 am
US leaves drone base in Pakistan.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
11:47 am
Doom, why don’t you research it. You can read Roe v Wade, look at medical procedures and decisions and then look at what happens when a man murders a pregnant woman and tell me whether that action meet the standards of Roe v Wade and the case law. I am sure that the many anti-abortion cites can lay out the arguments for you if you research or have you come up with something new that they never thought of….. go for it.
poison pen
April 22nd, 2011
11:47 am
AmVet
April 22nd, 2011
11:42 am
“…but I still think…”
More bad news, pen.
The law of the land does not care what you think.
(That makes nine straight fact-free posts, BTW…)
AmVet, I think I hit the fact on the head about your MEDS.
Why do I scare you so much that you need to count my posts, are you that lame or did you miss your MEDS yesterday also?
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:47 am
Getalife….so you feel that the entire economy can go to hell. As long as Medicare stays in tact? Great logic pal.
getalife
April 22nd, 2011
11:49 am
“people having kids, who have no business having kids.”
So, you are pro choice.
Left wing management
April 22nd, 2011
11:49 am
Don’t Tread: “The root cause of this (and most other ills of society, if you really think about it) is people having kids, who have no business having kids.”
And let me guess: YOU’RE the one who’s qualified to say who has any business having kids.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
11:49 am
ug…you’re spinning in circles. Your definition presumes unlawful. Abortion is lawful. You do know that they are two different words..lawful v unlawful.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
11:49 am
ug…you’re spinning in circles. Your definition presumes unlawful. Abortion is lawful. You do know that they are two different words..lawful v unlawful.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
11:49 am
So good I had to say it twice….
getalife
April 22nd, 2011
11:50 am
ug,
We don’t need to end Medicare silly.
The adults will balance our budget again and your party will blow it again.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:51 am
Keep….so to you is murder legal or illegal…>you cant have it both ways. The law in itself is contradictory.
poison pen
April 22nd, 2011
11:52 am
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
11:49 am
ug…you’re spinning in circles. Your definition presumes unlawful. Abortion is lawful. You do know that they are two different words..lawful v unlawful.
Do you know the difference between legal and illegal?
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:52 am
Getalife…..yep Obama has done a great job of doing it so far. hahahaha keep up the good work.
The funny thing is while your party is leaving him….you still fight for his every word. Blind faith some call it. I call it ignorance.
getalife
April 22nd, 2011
11:52 am
ug,
The law will not change so stop crying about it.
Thulsa Doom
April 22nd, 2011
11:52 am
One thing I’ve found kind of odd over the years is that when someone kills a woman and she happens to be pregnant- whether it be 1 week or 8 months- that person is charged with 2 murders. We see this on a frequent basis. Please explain to me why if a man kills a woman who is 1- 2 months pregnant he is charged with 2 murders but if the woman aborts the child the first trimester it was never a life to begin with. Please splain the inconsistency.
poison pen
April 22nd, 2011
11:52 am
poison pen
April 22nd, 2011
11:52 am
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
11:49 am
ug…you’re spinning in circles. Your definition presumes unlawful. Abortion is lawful. You do know that they are two different words..lawful v unlawful.
Do you know the difference between legal and illegal?
I had to say it twice also.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:53 am
Getalife….the slavery law??? NEWSFLASH….IT HAS!
getalife
April 22nd, 2011
11:53 am
“I call it ignorance.”
Yeah, cons voting to end their own Medicare is ignorant.
getalife
April 22nd, 2011
11:54 am
ug,
Roe vs Wade silly.
Are you wow or just his clone?
Jackie
April 22nd, 2011
11:55 am
@UGA
How about this from a source other than FOX.
The Reuters blog you posted certainly indicates that Paul Ryan will destroy Medicare / MedicAid, take money that Sec. Gates identified as savings and put it $100 Billion back into combat capabilities.
The gist of the Ryan budget is to revert to 2008 spending levels, as percentage of GDP. First, the population has grown, secondly, the recession was in full bloom at that time and as you know, the Supply / Demand curve is distorted. There was very little spending by the government and the private sector because there was a huge hole in our work force population.
What do you think?
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
11:55 am
Getalife….no cons voting to help the overall economy is called genius.
Thulsa Doom
April 22nd, 2011
11:56 am
The adults will balance our budget again and your party will blow it again.- getalife
Getalife,
Hmmm. The adults will balance the budget? Um. Then why has Obama added nearly 5 trillion in new debt and why does his own administration forecast deficits through the year 2020? His own administration mind you. Please explain that bit about the adults balancing the budget again. Because according to Obama’s own administration’s numbers you certainly are not talking about him balancing the budget- btw FY 2011 budget deficit is 1.65 trillion dollars.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
11:57 am
Ug..you have yet to provide a law. Murder is a crime defined by law.
Here is an example:
The following is a example of a state statute dealing with murder:
2903.02. Murder.
No person shall purposely cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another’s pregnancy.
No person shall cause the death of another as a proximate result of the offender’s committing or attempting to commit an offense of violence that is a felony of the first or second degree and that is not a violation of section 2903.03 or 2903.04 of the Revised Code.
Division (B) of this section does not apply to an offense that becomes a felony of the first or second degree only if the offender previously has been convicted of that offense or another specified offense.
Whoever violates this section is guilty of murder, and shall be punished as provided in section 2929.02 of the Revised Code.
Now again got anything to back your assertion that lawful abortion is legally defined as murder?
AmVet
April 22nd, 2011
11:57 am
In more than three decades since its 1973 Roe v. Wade decision legalizing abortion, the Supreme Court has weighed in on the issue another two-dozen times.
It has repeatedly upheld Roe’s central holding: that the U.S. Constitution guarantees a right of privacy that includes a woman’s right to have an abortion during the first thirteen weeks of pregnancy, and later to safeguard the woman’s life or health.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5029934
Educate yourselves, would be Perry Masons…
Thulsa Doom
April 22nd, 2011
12:02 pm
Jackie,
“The population has grown from 2008 to 2011?”. Um. Yes. But only slightly. That is an obscenely ridiculous point. Try again
“There was very little spending by the government and the private sector because there was a huge hole in our work force population. “- Jackie. Very little spending by the govt or private sector? Um. What planet are you living on? If there was “very little” spending then why were we running enormous deficits if there was “very little spending”? The economy was still 13 or 14 trillion even with a recession. Is 13 or 14 trillion “very little spending”. You get an F in economics. FAIL.
Thulsa Doom
April 22nd, 2011
12:05 pm
Keep up the good fight,
Please explain to me once again why if a woman aborts a fetus in the first 3 months its as if the fetus never existed as a life but if she is murdered then murderer is charged with not one but two murders because that same fetus counts as a human being. Its these sneaky inconsistencies that keep me awake at night.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
12:07 pm
Keep…>YES by your own definition…..you proved my point. Thank you.
stands for decibels
April 22nd, 2011
12:08 pm
AmVet, one one hand you’re absolutely right in what you posted @ 11.57; however, we can’t really ignore the death-of-a-thousand-cuts the antichoice right have attempted to inflict upon Roe, especially of late.
Dalia Lithwick has a somewhat misleadingly headlined piece about it here:
http://www.slate.com/id/2291596/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
…There are new regulations in Utah and Virginia governing abortion clinics. Legislation has been introduced in 13 states requiring that women have an ultrasound procedure before having an abortion—and in seven of those states, the woman must view the fetus and listen to a detailed verbal description as well. Measures have been introduced in 17 states copying a Nebraska law banning abortion at 20 weeks, on the theory—again based on questionable medical data—that this is when a fetus can feel pain.
It hardly bears observing here that most of these measures are against the law. That law is Roe v. Wade. Making abortion illegal after 18 or 20 weeks doesn’t meet the viability test that was laid out in Roe, and 72-hour waiting periods and doing away with health exceptions for the mother would also violate both Roe and its progeny.
Abortion opponents don’t bother to deny this. As the Rev. Pat Mahoney, director of the Christian Defense Coalition, told CBN news: “We don’t have to see a Roe v. Wade overturned in the Supreme Court to end it. … We want to. But if we chip away and chip away, we’ll find out that Roe really has no impact. And that’s what we are doing.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
they break the law and brag about it. That’s their strategy. Sooner or later these jerks will have to be taken head on, but I can understand the current Dem. leadership picking its battles carefully.
I heard Lithwick interviewed yesterday; she pointed out (as I often do) that actual public opinion really hasn’t budget at all on Roe–a pretty big majority supported it in 1973, and still do today. Obviously, though, the pockets of resistance are incredibly dug-in and willing to do about anything they have to (including domestic terrorism and murder) to advance their objectives.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
12:08 pm
Doom…read Roe v Wade and above info. Its obvious you are responding without taking the time to research yourself when I have provided the information. I dont get paid to give you a legal education.
poison pen
April 22nd, 2011
12:09 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 22nd, 2011
12:05 pm
Keep up the good fight,
Please explain to me once again why if a woman aborts a fetus in the first 3 months its as if the fetus never existed as a life but if she is murdered then murderer is charged with not one but two murders because that same fetus counts as a human being. Its these sneaky inconsistencies that keep me awake at night.
Thulsa, it’s because Libs have little regard for life, it’s the majority of Libs that have the abortions.
stands for decibels
April 22nd, 2011
12:09 pm
“hasn’t budged,” not “budget”…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
12:09 pm
ug….. you fail to wow. you have nothing but hot air. buh-bye.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
12:10 pm
Keep….I am just asking you…..at what point does a embryo become a human?
AmVet
April 22nd, 2011
12:10 pm
A reactionary is a somnambulist walking backwards. Franklin D. Roosevelt
stands for decibels
April 22nd, 2011
12:10 pm
if a woman aborts a fetus in the first 3 months its as if the fetus never existed
1) it’s not a “fetus” in the first trimester, and
2) nobody said it didn’t exist. It simply doesn’t have personhood, and if you want it to have such rights of citizenship, amend the constitution already. good luck with that.
Dave R.
April 22nd, 2011
12:13 pm
“The President’s budget does not end Medicare.”
Neither does Ryan’s as Politifact rates.
The difference is that Ryan’s gets to balance eventually (not as fast as I’d like it, however), while Hope & Punt’s ™ never quite gets us there.
Dave R.
April 22nd, 2011
12:15 pm
“There was very little spending by the government . . .”
$3 TRILLION not enough for you, Jackie?
poison pen
April 22nd, 2011
12:15 pm
If the cons were so evil we would put 100 abortion clinics in every major city and sit back and watch, because in ten years we would be the ruling party for a century.
willie lynch
April 22nd, 2011
12:18 pm
Doom,
You should get some rest. The law of the land has not determined a doctor assisted termination of pregnancy to be murder. A brazen criminal act of taking the life of another and that person is with child has been determined in some states to be a double homocide. This is not the law of the country but of individual states.
Dave R.
April 22nd, 2011
12:20 pm
“at what point does a embryo become a human?”
Wrong question, UGA.
Right question: At what point does an embryo become subject to our laws?
Only citizens are subject to laws. Therefore, until that – pick your name accordingly, fetus, baby, child, embryo – is downloaded and has a birth certificate, its not a citizen nor subject to laws.
willie lynch
April 22nd, 2011
12:21 pm
Do they have a party affiliation question on abortion clinic questionaires?
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
12:22 pm
Dave R. So you are saying that illegal aliens are not subject to our laws?
HDB
April 22nd, 2011
12:23 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 22nd, 2011
12:05 pm
“Please explain to me once again why if a woman aborts a fetus in the first 3 months its as if the fetus never existed as a life but if she is murdered then murderer is charged with not one but two murders because that same fetus counts as a human being.”
To interject here: the inconsistency occurs due to the ASSUMPTION of CHOICE!! If a woman is pregnant, it is assumed that she will CHOOSE to take the pregnancy full term. That basic assumption is what leads to the charge of infanticide when a pregnant woman loses her life due to unnatural means (murder, involuntary homicide….). In the casse of an abortion, however, the woman is exercising her CHOICE to terminate a pregnancy; THAT choice then changes the fetal status.
Not an inconsistency IF you recognize the assumption of choice in legal situations…..
Dave R.
April 22nd, 2011
12:24 pm
The mere fact that they are “illegal” shows that they are, however, that straw-man doesn’t fly, as they are “citizens” somewhere else.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
12:26 pm
Dave R…..not based on your previous comment.
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
12:26 pm
The fact is that the law for abortion may not ever change and probably wont. However that does not change the moral or biblical arguement.
HDB
April 22nd, 2011
12:30 pm
poison pen
April 22nd, 2011
12:09 pm
“Thulsa, it’s because Libs have little regard for life, it’s the majority of Libs that have the abortions.
12:15 pm
If the cons were so evil we would put 100 abortion clinics in every major city and sit back and watch, because in ten years we would be the ruling party for a century.”
Think you may be a bit off there; remember, prior to R v W, those who were having the preponderance of abortions were those of MEANS who could fly to where abortions were legal!! Primarily, it was conservatives faced with the stigma of an unwanted pregnancy that were the primary bebefactors of abortions. Since R v W, it has been about an equal distribution between conservatives and liberals who have the procedure. It is NOT because of the disregard for life….but the regard for CHOICE!! If conservatives had such a regard for LIFE, they would not be so against increased funding for WIC, TANF….programs that assist the poorer ends of society to work toward self-sufficiency…..
willie lynch
April 22nd, 2011
12:32 pm
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
12:26 pm
The biblical argument that abortion is wrong, only applies to those who believe in the bible. But your point does raise the question. In this Christian nation, why are so many Christians getting abortions?
UGA1999
April 22nd, 2011
12:33 pm
Willie….sad isnt it?
Kamchak
April 22nd, 2011
12:35 pm
Tick…tick…tick…., yet again.
Also — it’s beginning to smell swampy in here.
MiltonMan
April 22nd, 2011
12:54 pm
AmWay “the defender of abortion” giving cons the grief about taking away abortion rights??? Do you feel the same about your fellow Demorats who are constantly trying to overturn the 2nd Amendment pal?
Typical Liberal – picks & chooses only what their little pea brain can comprehend.
MiltonMan
April 22nd, 2011
12:55 pm
Willie please let us know what Christians are having abortions. Based on your post, I assume you personally know lots of them?
oldguy
April 22nd, 2011
12:58 pm
Lets see;
Jay’s solution is……..Dump more public tax money into the system and it will “get better”. Pay the teachers more. Reduce the size of classes.
Don’t dare try to test to see if the graduates can spell DUH
Buy more high tech equipment.
There, problem solved!
oldguy
April 22nd, 2011
1:05 pm
Jay,
Why is there an almost inverse relationship in the money spent per student and the achievement level of the students?
EX: DC Public schools spend more per student than any other system, they must be having great success!
Check the public schools in Warner Robins VS Atlanta WR spends much less per student and graduates many more College eligible seniors.
Thulsa Doom
April 22nd, 2011
1:19 pm
stands for decibels
April 22nd, 2011
12:10 pm
if a woman aborts a fetus in the first 3 months its as if the fetus never existed
1) it’s not a “fetus” in the first trimester
Stands for decibels,
Not a fetus? Ok. Then what is it? A lifeless blob?
Thulsa Doom
April 22nd, 2011
1:21 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
April 22nd, 2011
12:08 pm
Doom…read Roe v Wade and above info. Its obvious you are responding without taking the time to research yourself when I have provided the information. I dont get paid to give you a legal education.
Keep up,
I know Roe v Wade. I just wanted a common sense answer from you on this obvious inconsistency. And apparently that seems to much to ask for.
Thulsa Doom
April 22nd, 2011
1:28 pm
HDB at 12:23,
Well at least you answered the question. Now I get it. Its comes down to choice. If the woman chooses to abort the baby then its okay. Its not murder.
That presents an interesting hypothetical that I’m sure has happened several times. Lets say a woman finds out she is a few weeks or a month or so pregnant and makes the decision that in another month when she gets the money she is going to abort the pregnancy and she tells her friends and confidants this and sets up an appointment with planned parenthood to terminate pregnancy. She then is murdered in a heated argument, carjacking, robbery, whatever. Does the murderer still get charged with 2 murders or only 1 since the woman was planning to abort the fetus anyway and it can be proven she was going to abort the fetus?
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
April 22nd, 2011
2:13 pm
Of cours they DON’T get the message. Just more tax dollars WASTED. BTW, Happy Good Friday, Holy Saturday and Easter Sunday. It’s NOT about the colored eggs.
DawgDad
April 22nd, 2011
3:22 pm
I believe there are State and perhaps Federal laws mandating kids attend school until they reach a certain age. Thus, the State has an rightful place in ensuring the interests of the State, the kids, and their parents are served. There is clear corruption at play in APS and other school districts; the State has a right and a need to step in and lower the hammer. So far they’ve stepped in very reluctantly and largely with a white glove. About time for the hammer.
The political lessons here are so blatantly obvious as to not even be worth discussing. The question that needs our attention as a society is why are large segments of the population so utterly self-destructive, and what can reasonably be done to provide their kids with a ray of hope for the future? Pretty clear government is NOT the answer.