Why does GOP want to protect tax cheats?

Riddle me this, Batman:

If it’s pointed out that a family of four making $40,000 a year pays no federal income taxes, many conservatives tend to get upset that the family isn’t paying their fair share like the rest of us.

On the other hand, if it’s pointed out that a multi-millionaire or billionaire pays no federal income tax, the reaction is to applaud his or her accountant for successfully cheating the government.

If a corporation is reported to have avoided paying corporate taxes, the reaction is again applause, under the thesis that corporations shouldn’t have to pay taxes anyway.

But if that corporation in question is General Electric, its ability to pay little or no taxes is cited as an outrageous scandal that must be addressed and investigated. (By the way, the company just announced a 77 percent increase in first quarter profits.)

And of course, as part of its demands to end the budget standoff earlier this month, the GOP demanded and got $600 million in cuts from the IRS budget. As John Berry in the Fiscal Times noted in March:

IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman told a House subcommittee last week that such a budget cut over just six months likely would reduce federal revenues by $4 billion. The IRS “would need to make substantial cuts to its enforcement programs,” he said.

In other words, cut spending by $600 million, lose $4 billion in revenue and add $3.4 billion to the deficit

Of course, that’s $3.4 billion in revenue over six months that the government is already owed, under existing tax law. The GOP is in effect protecting criminals, pulling cops off the beat to ensure that those breaking the law are not caught. And remember, the money not paid by scofflaws must be paid by somebody else. Back in 2001, the most recent year for which estimates are available, almost $300 billion in taxes owed went uncollected.

But again, if the people owing those taxes are poor or middle class, that is presumably a scandal. If the people owing those taxes are affluent business people, they are heroic Americans.

At least, if I understand these things correctly …

– Jay Bookman

417 comments Add your comment

Charlie

April 21st, 2011
5:11 pm

Actually Jay, if they’re Democrats, they get a Cabinet position in Obama’s administration.

Kamchak

April 21st, 2011
5:13 pm

…pulling cops off the beat to ensure that those breaking the law are not caught.

Sounds suspiciously familiar.

Kinda like the ethics commission losing it’s ability to warn about infractions.

Jay

April 21st, 2011
5:13 pm

Yeah, I knew that one was coming. Deservedly so.

Jay

April 21st, 2011
5:14 pm

But why doesn’t the GOP want to catch the rest of ‘em?

Phil Lunney

April 21st, 2011
5:22 pm

We are a nation of laws when the folks are poor or low income. We are a nation of lawyers for the rich and entrenched. Listen to the joy in Neal Boortz’s voice when a company declares bankruptcy and can void union contracts. Correspondingly, Neal will trumpet the legal obligation when a corporate officer is removed and a big pay out is contractually activated. But, wait, who will be the first to accuse me of “Class Warfare”…

Left wing management

April 21st, 2011
5:23 pm

Just for sheets and gaggles, here’s a neat little toy for comparing effective tax rates between time periods stretching from the present back to World War II ( great for use in clobbering the righties over the head with facts ) :

http://www.remappingdebate.org/map-data-tool/new-interactive-tool-puts-tax-rates-historical-context

ty webb

April 21st, 2011
5:24 pm

I’ve got nothing…Charlie said it best. Have a good one everyone

Keep Up the Good Fight!

April 21st, 2011
5:25 pm

And if Geitner and others with their tax accountants and others cannot get their taxes correct, then Geitner stands as an example for why we should increase enforcement and auditing of returns while we simplify the IRS Code.

Kamchak

April 21st, 2011
5:26 pm

But why doesn’t the GOP want to catch the rest of ‘em?

Sussing out motive is always tricky.

Used to be, the media shied away from the “why” when reporting a story.

Now it’s the first thing the consumer demands.

Kamchak

April 21st, 2011
5:28 pm

Listen to the joy in Neal Boortz’s voice…

Can’t I just stick red-hot pokers in my ears instead?

Charlie

April 21st, 2011
5:31 pm

I don’t personally consider anyone who is lawfully complying with the tax code – be they a $40K family or a multinational corporation – a tax cheat.

We have a problem with a broken tax code that no one understands, tax rates that bear no resemblance to effective taxes paid, an electorate that thinks everyone pays too much except the top 2%, who pay the majority of taxes but should somehow pay more, with same electorate demanding more middle class entitlements simultaneously with more tax cuts.

Cheating isn’t the problem. Ignorance is. On all sides of this debate and problem.

I’m out too. Y’all have a good one.

Elder D. Berry

April 21st, 2011
5:31 pm

I love the fact that Geithner is THE name the GOP keeps throwing up, as their little tax cheat, on a pedestal even though his errors were identified and corrected. How about all the hedge fund managers using a loophole to get away with paying 17% or less in taxes or the much touted GE case that the Republicans seem to have decided to try to forget about now that Ryan’s yellow brick road plan is getting so much negative publicity from the GOP base or how about the folks with their money hidden in other countries for the sole purpose of avoiding paying taxes. Republicans! Nothing to envy there unless you admire greedy crooks.

Alicia

April 21st, 2011
5:31 pm

What’s good for the elites is good for the peons.

cmac22

April 21st, 2011
5:32 pm

Tim Geitner sends his thanks to the Republicans for helping to protect tax cheats!

Peadawg

April 21st, 2011
5:33 pm

And this coming from someone who wanted to vote Roy Barnes in again after he himself is a tax cheat.

cmac22

April 21st, 2011
5:34 pm

Yo Elder –

He didn’t correct it until AFTER he was nominated by obozo. And, when he took the $ to start with, he signed on the dotted line that he was responsible for the taxes. And yet geitner the a– clown is in charge of the irs!!! What a boob!

cmac22

April 21st, 2011
5:38 pm

Elder @ 5:31 “Republicans! Nothing to envy there unless you admire greedy crooks.”

Unless you envy those that can DOMINATE a mid term election with obozo sittin’ in the white house!

Jefferson

April 21st, 2011
5:39 pm

The GOP is a disaster wanting to happen.

Elder D. Berry

April 21st, 2011
5:40 pm

DOMINATE

I think you’re thinking about a Dominatrix.

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 21st, 2011
5:41 pm

We have a problem with a broken tax code that no one understands,

Obviously, there are some who understand it completely or else GE would have a tax bill. The problem with our tax code is much the same as in other areas. We have allowed Congress to abdicate their legislative duties in actually writing legislation to those who are affected by the legislation.

The best way to end all our problems is to remove the source of the problem, outside influence through $$$. Remove the outside money, and our legislators have no reason to continue to whore themselves out to the highest bidder.

getalife

April 21st, 2011
5:42 pm

Because they donate millions?

RW-(the original)

April 21st, 2011
5:43 pm

I love this silly notion Democrats have that every government entity is operating on a shoestring budget and getting a herculean effort and result from every employee and department so if the budget ever gets cut in any way the first thing they have to do is layoff the most critical positions.

Kamchak

April 21st, 2011
5:46 pm

I think you’re thinking about a Dominatrix.

Five words.

Bondaged themed lesbian strip club.

getalife

April 21st, 2011
5:47 pm

“Bondaged themed lesbian strip club.”

gop fundraiser.

Kamchak

April 21st, 2011
5:51 pm

getalife

Aye, there’s the rub.

Paul

April 21st, 2011
5:52 pm

dang, getalife, you’re on a roll!

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 21st, 2011
5:53 pm

RW

I wouldn’t quite describe myself a Hercules… :)

getalife

April 21st, 2011
5:54 pm

Rub and strip clubs.

Uh huh.

Paul

April 21st, 2011
5:56 pm

Why, Jay?

Because they want to be like the millionaires.

They want to think they made it solely on the basis of hard work. No breaks from anyone.

They want the lifestyles they see on tv.

They think that since they made it on their own, in the land of opportunity, those who haven’t (or who never will) have not availed themselves of the opportunities America has to offer.

Since they made it themselves, it’s theirs, all theirs.

They think gov’t has no right to what they’ve earned.

They have no sense of giving back or or responsibility to country.

So they applaud the cheats.

Dave R.

April 21st, 2011
5:58 pm

Enforcement and simplification isues go away by enacting one, simple law.

And you all know what that is.

Fred

April 21st, 2011
5:59 pm

Jay, are you basing your outrage on the GE pays no taxes hoax that was recently debunked? I hope not. I mean that crap is like a week old. You got something else? I didn’t see it in your article. I have to go cook supper, but I can show you that GE scam when I get back if you need it. It’s BOGUS.

Jackie

April 21st, 2011
6:00 pm

Has anyone ever had atax audit performed?
If so, you taxes were not done properly, therefore you are technically a “tax cheat.”

Mary Elizabeth

April 21st, 2011
6:01 pm

Because our values are upside down. When Wisconsin Gov. Scott was in the news for hiring a relative/friend, his response: “He was 5 levels below me.” Who’s counting levels? Not me. But that silly value was important to him. Values are now defined in our nation by the game being played called, “Who’s on top?”

“Blame the Victim” has been going on since Jim Crow (and before). The Middle Class has been shrinking for years. The “game” has been leveled against them – they just don’t see it, yet.

When I taught schoo,l I knew that if I constructed a test that was easy – the grades would be high.
If I constructed a test that was difficult – the grades would be low.

The “game” of wealth has been set against the Middle Class and Lower Classes by those in power whose values are deficient – and they are creating an America where most cannot rise. They know it. Most Americans don’t.

Paul

April 21st, 2011
6:01 pm

Fred

Okay, stipulating to that…. what would your reaction be if it were to occur that GE did not pay any taxes at some future point?

That’s the issue – peoples’ reactions.

Dave R.

April 21st, 2011
6:09 pm

“The Middle Class has been shrinking for years.”

(Yawn)

Still trotting out that same, lame statement, Mary Elizabeth? In case you forgot our little chat of a couple of weeks ago, I showed where the U.S. Census Bureau shows that the percentage of people living in poverty hasn’t changed statistically for over 30 years. That means the lower class hasn’t changed (despite all the wasted dollars on social programs designed to do so). Conversely, if the lower class hasn’t changed, and the middle class has shrunk (according to all you libs), WHERE DID THEY ALL GO?

The only direction is – UP.

So why all the poutrage about the middle class shrinking?

getalife

April 21st, 2011
6:15 pm

The IRS are cracking down on the people but not their donors.

It goes back to the nixon line that cheney made legal.

It is not illegal if they do it.

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 21st, 2011
6:20 pm

I showed where the U.S. Census Bureau shows that the percentage of people living in poverty hasn’t changed statistically for over 30 years.

Gotta be EOI here for a sec… I think you’re both right and wrong depending on how you look at it. If you’re talking from a pure percentage point, you’re batting 1.000, but there’s a different way to look at the same statement.

If the percentage hasn’t changed over 30 years, what has? Population. 30% of 310 million is a larger group than 30% of 225 million. You’re talking about 9.3 million in the first group vs 6.75 million in the latter. Small number increase, but it is an increase.

Paulo977

April 21st, 2011
6:21 pm

Mary
Elizabeth
” and they are creating an America where most cannot rise. They know it. Most Americans don’t” And of course they have done a superb job of convincing the uninformed herds, through garbled logic, that they , are not “the working poor”!!!

F. Sinkwich

April 21st, 2011
6:22 pm

Tax avoidance is not “cheating,” Jay.

Please show where GE cheated or change your headline.

Thanks.

md

April 21st, 2011
6:23 pm

I was expecting the Thursday addition of the travelin post………too many heathens not off tomorrow?

Just a good example of why the tax code needs to be simplified…….yet when the debt commission came up with a plan, both sides swept it under the rug……………

Until then, Turbotax is your friend…………..it finds the loopholes for everybody……….

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 21st, 2011
6:28 pm

Please show where GE cheated or change your headline.

How’s this for starters….
*Excuse me for the long post that follows:
GE Lobbyists Mold Tax Bill
Firm Saw Subsidy Repeal as Chance to Pay Less

No company in the nation had more to lose than General Electric Co. when the World Trade Organization decreed in 2002 that U.S. tax laws violated international treaties. The multinational conglomerate was saving hundreds of millions of dollars a year in taxes from the export subsidies that the United States had to discard.

But in a two-year campaign, fueled as much by brains as political brawn, GE has shaped the legislation that would replace the old export-promotion law in ways that would allow it to save as much, if not more, in taxes, according to both GE lobbyists and congressional aides. In pursuing its financial interest, the company may also have turned the U.S. corporate tax code away from domestic manufacturing and toward expansion of operations abroad.

[...]

GE was far from alone in trying to fashion what has become the most important corporate tax bill in nearly 20 years. Lobbyists for the nation’s biggest companies have dusted off their favorite tax benefits and tried to sell them as part of the legislation. As a result, the measure, which began as a simple repeal of the $5-billion-a-year export subsidy, has swollen to include more than $140 billion in tax breaks over the next 10 years.

But GE’s clout stands out. Of one provision eventually worth $2 billion a year, GE will reap an “overwhelming percentage,” said John Buckley, chief tax counsel for the Democratic staff of the House Ways and Means Committee.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A45064-2004Jul12?language=printer

All I did was google “tax legislation lobbied for by GE” and that was the first link.

pogo

April 21st, 2011
6:29 pm

“GE not paying taxes hoax”. That is priceless and level of naivete I haven’t seen in years. I agree with you on this one Jay. For every politician that makes their decisions based upon corporate support, I say fry them. Besides, look at GE’s employment numbers in this country and how they have outsourced millions of jobs to other countries just to raise their profit margin. Same with the “beloved” Apple and Microsoft.

JKL2

April 21st, 2011
6:30 pm

You don’t pay tax on wealth, you pay it on income. It’s easy to be a millionaire and not pay taxes. It’s because they no longer have a job.

If you want to be a family of four and pay income tax on $4,000 income then move to IL. They have very few deduction and that is what you get, $1,000 per dependant. After that you times by .05 and write a check.

Mary Elizabeth

April 21st, 2011
6:31 pm

Dave R @ 6:09

“The truth is that the middle class in America is dying — and once it is gone it will be incredibly difficult to rebuild.” (See Below) Read particularly that subsection called “Giant Sucking Sound” at the end.

The Middle Class in America Is Radically Shrinking. Here Are the Stats to Prove it
Posted Jul 15, 2010 02:25pm EDT by Michael Snyder in Recession
Related: ^DJI, ^GSPC, SPY, MCD, WMT, XRT, DIA
.From The Business Insider

Editor’s note: Michael Snyder is editor of theeconomiccollapseblog.com

The 22 statistics detailed here prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the middle class is being systematically wiped out of existence in America.

The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer at a staggering rate. Once upon a time, the United States had the largest and most prosperous middle class in the history of the world, but now that is changing at a blinding pace.

So why are we witnessing such fundamental changes? Well, the globalism and “free trade” that our politicians and business leaders insisted would be so good for us have had some rather nasty side effects. It turns out that they didn’t tell us that the “global economy” would mean that middle class American workers would eventually have to directly compete for jobs with people on the other side of the world where there is no minimum wage and very few regulations. The big global corporations have greatly benefited by exploiting third world labor pools over the last several decades, but middle class American workers have increasingly found things to be very tough.

Here are the statistics to prove it:

• 83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.
• 61 percent of Americans “always or usually” live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.
• 66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.
• 36 percent of Americans say that they don’t contribute anything to retirement savings.
• A staggering 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 saved up for retirement.
• 24 percent of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.
• Over 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009, which represented a 32 percent increase over 2008.
• Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.
• For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net
worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.
• In 1950, the ratio of the average executive’s paycheck to the average worker’s paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.
• As of 2007, the bottom 80 percent of American households held about 7% of the liquid financial assets.
• The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.
• Average Wall Street bonuses for 2009 were up 17 percent when compared with 2008.
• In the United States, the average federal worker now earns 60% MORE than the average worker in the private sector.
• The top 1 percent of U.S. households own nearly twice as much of America’s corporate wealth as they did just 15 years ago.
• In America today, the average time needed to find a job has risen to a record 35.2 weeks.
• More than 40 percent of Americans who actually are employed are now working in service jobs, which are often very low paying.
• or the first time in U.S. history, more than 40 million Americans are on food stamps, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture projects that number will go up to 43 million Americans in 2011.
• This is what American workers now must compete against: in China a garment worker makes approximately 86 cents an hour and in Cambodia a garment worker makes approximately 22 cents an hour.
• Approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 – the highest rate in 20 years.
• Despite the financial crisis, the number of millionaires in the United States rose a whopping 16 percent to 7.8 million in 2009.
• The top 10 percent of Americans now earn around 50 percent of our national income.

Giant Sucking Sound

The reality is that no matter how smart, how strong, how educated or how hard working American workers are, they just cannot compete with people who are desperate to put in 10 to 12 hour days at less than a dollar an hour on the other side of the world. After all, what corporation in their right mind is going to pay an American worker 10 times more (plus benefits) to do the same job? The world is fundamentally changing. Wealth and power are rapidly becoming concentrated at the top and the big global corporations are making massive amounts of money. Meanwhile, the American middle class is being systematically wiped out of existence as U.S. workers are slowly being merged into the new “global” labor pool.

What do most Americans have to offer in the marketplace other than their labor? Not much. The truth is that most Americans are absolutely dependent on someone else giving them a job. But today, U.S. workers are “less attractive” than ever. Compared to the rest of the world, American workers are extremely expensive, and the government keeps passing more rules and regulations seemingly on a monthly basis that makes it even more difficult to conduct business in the United States.

So corporations are moving operations out of the U.S. at breathtaking speed. Since the U.S. government does not penalize them for doing so, there really is no incentive for them to stay.

What has developed is a situation where the people at the top are doing quite well, while most Americans are finding it increasingly difficult to make it. There are now about six unemployed Americans for every new job opening in the United States, and the number of “chronically unemployed” is absolutely soaring. There simply are not nearly enough jobs for everyone.

Many of those who are able to get jobs are finding that they are making less money than they used to. In fact, an increasingly large percentage of Americans are working at low wage retail and service jobs.

But you can’t raise a family on what you make flipping burgers at McDonald’s or on what you bring in from greeting customers down at the local Wal-Mart.

The truth is that the middle class in America is dying — and once it is gone it will be incredibly difficult to rebuild.

.

md

April 21st, 2011
6:32 pm

“When I taught schoo,l I knew that if I constructed a test that was easy – the grades would be high.
If I constructed a test that was difficult – the grades would be low. ”

But….I’m betting that if one prepared themselves properly, it wouldn’t matter how hard the test was……..same way with life……..that darned choices thing I have a problem with.

F. Sinkwich

April 21st, 2011
6:36 pm

SoCo, so who’s doing the perp-walk for GE?

Obama’s GE buddies?

Nope. So what they did was legal, right?

F. Sinkwich

April 21st, 2011
6:40 pm

I guess Mary doesn’t know the definition of pithy.

Memo to Mary:

Only the retarded reads all your crap.

You’re welcome.

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 21st, 2011
6:42 pm

Jay

Any idea of what held up my response to F. Sinkwich?

Paul

April 21st, 2011
6:42 pm

“Only the retarded reads all your crap.”

Internet access: $30 a month.

Irony: Priceless

getalife

April 21st, 2011
6:43 pm

Ensign is out and we have a liberal gop candidate that wants to legalize weed.

Things are getting better.

Mary Elizabeth

April 21st, 2011
6:44 pm

Paulo977@ 6:21

“And of course they have done a superb job of convincing the uninformed herds, through garbled logic, that they , are not “the working poor”!!!”
—————————————————————–
True, as long as wealth accrued is equated with intellect and wisdom, we as a nation are on the wrong path. Even the poor have, unfortunately, bought into the fact that they are inferior, just as many African-Americans, having been maligned for years, found it difficult to sustain a strong autonomy and self-image in the midst of those Jim Crow values of another era.

When the world – finally – believes in and gives support to a lateral view of one another (egalitarian view), instead of a hierarchial, vertical view of one another (some superior/some inferior), we will finally get our values straight. I think that this is particularly important to be voiced during this Passover/Easter Season of the year.

The President understands those values and tried to demonstrate an egalitarian view by showing respect in his manner to others throughout the world.

@@

April 21st, 2011
6:46 pm

Obama condemns corporations for not paying their fair share, then appoints Jeffrey Immelt of G.E. to oversee commerce.

That’s what I have a problem with.

St Simons - we're on Island time

April 21st, 2011
6:48 pm

Now, if you’ve got 40 coconuts, shrimp, whatever, and you give 2 of them to the Man, and I have 30 million coconuts/shrimp, and I give none (or 2) to the Man, well we all learned when we were in nursery school whether that was Right or Wrong. If one did that on the island, where everybody knows everybody, he couldn’t show his face for the shame. Is that what it is? Do they just not have any shame any more?

A civilization is evaluated not on how it treated the most of us, but how it treated the least of us, and you knew that when you were 3, but its hard to be ashamed when you have no shame.

Left wing management

April 21st, 2011
6:48 pm

@@: “Obama condemns corporations for not paying their fair share, then appoints Jeffrey Immelt of G.E. to oversee commerce. / That’s what I have a problem with.”

Well, you’re not the only one.

Mike

April 21st, 2011
6:48 pm

Nobody is cheating, or breaking the law, if they maximize their deductions to the legally allowable limit. If you don’t like the deductions, then cite them – it sounds like you’re a fan of the FairTax :-) . If I were a major shareholder of a large corporation, and found out it decided to pay more taxes, out of pure generosity, I’d be infuriated.

If an accountant advises his client to pay too little taxes, he might go to jail, if he advises his client to pay too much tax, he get’s fired.

Paul

April 21st, 2011
6:50 pm

@@

I’ve been with you on that.

An issue that cuts across party lines, ideology, and anything else.

It’d be interesting to hear who doesn’t have a problem with it.

Care to lay odds on which end of the spectrum they’re on?

Elder D. Berry

April 21st, 2011
6:50 pm

Only the retarded reads all your crap.

replies Sinkwich.

Paul

April 21st, 2011
6:51 pm

@@

Actually, I’d be fine with it if Immelt were to resign as head of GE.

But he has no honor, so it will not happen.

Lil' Barry Bailout

April 21st, 2011
6:52 pm

Jay: “If it’s pointed out that a multi-millionaire or billionaire pays no federal income tax, the reaction is to applaud his or her accountant for successfully cheating the government”
————————

Link please.

Didn’t think so.

Still can’t find anything positive to write about your Idiot Messiah, eh? It’s been a great week for red herrings and straw men.

Ciao.

Paul

April 21st, 2011
6:52 pm

“Nobody broke the law”

and

“There was no law preventing us from doing it, so it was legal”

The same excuses offered by the Wall Street crooks before they crashed the system and unleashed misery on America.

TaxPayer

April 21st, 2011
6:53 pm

Now that the cons are claiming that GE does indeed pay taxes, that must really have them steaming mad and ready to give them another tax cut. Maybe two cuts just to help make up for this negative publicity. The horror.

@@

April 21st, 2011
6:53 pm

And of course, as part of its demands to end the budget standoff earlier this month, the GOP demanded and got $600 million in cuts from the IRS budget.

That reminds me…have the new IRS agents been hired to offer advice to small business owners and low-income families as it pertains to Obama’s health care law?

getalife

April 21st, 2011
6:56 pm

If they don’t pay taxes they don’t need a tax cut.

Jackie

April 21st, 2011
6:57 pm

@Lil Barry

Check out this link that indicates the rich are over-taxed.

http://constitutionalconservative.wordpress.com/myth-the-rich-dont-pay-their-fair-share/

@@

April 21st, 2011
6:57 pm

Paul:

@@

I’ve been with you on that.

Like I said earlier….it’s of no consequence to me.

:grin: :grin: :grin:

JKL2

April 21st, 2011
6:58 pm

getalife- we have a liberal gop candidate that wants to legalize weed.

They should. The only reason I think it’s going to happen is because they will tax the hell out of it. (Marijuana has 20 times more tar than cigarettes). The problem will be the black market (like the one developing with cigarettes) to avoid the taxes. Otherwise, industrial hemp makes better alcohol than corn, better paper than trees, and better cloth than nylon. I don’t understand why anyone would want to make something like that available to the public?

TaxPayer

April 21st, 2011
6:58 pm

Mary Elizabeth

April 21st, 2011
7:01 pm

md @ 6:32

“But….I’m betting that if one prepared themselves properly, it wouldn’t matter how hard the test was……..same way with life……..that darned choices thing I have a problem with.”
—————————————————————————
md,
Be sure to read my “long” post giving pertinent facts, and you will see that even if one tries to make the right choices in today’s world – the deck is more often than not stacked against them.

There are more grays in this world – and in the classroom – than blacks and whites. :-)

Paul

April 21st, 2011
7:02 pm

@@

Nice to see you finally admit I take a position on issues.

Taxpayer and getalife

So if they get two tax cuts, since two negatives make a positive, GE gets a tax rate increase, yes?

AmVet

April 21st, 2011
7:03 pm

Carter wanted to decriminalize marijuana.

He also put solar panels on top of the White House

But then the BIG government Reaganista reactionaries happened and sent everything spiraling backwards a few decades…

getalife

April 21st, 2011
7:03 pm

JKL2,

With the State deficits in the red, it could help the economy.

It could help create jobs so I am very pro weed.

Left wing management

April 21st, 2011
7:04 pm

Still can’t find anything positive to write about your Idiot Messiah, eh? It’s been a great week for red herrings and straw men.

Pfffft..

TaxPayer

April 21st, 2011
7:04 pm

So if they get two tax cuts, since two negatives make a positive, GE gets a tax rate increase, yes?

Paul,

I heard the Heritage Foundation is looking for people with your skills. :smile:

getalife

April 21st, 2011
7:05 pm

“So if they get two tax cuts, since two negatives make a positive, GE gets a tax rate increase, yes?”

No, still zero.

Paul

April 21st, 2011
7:05 pm

“But then the BIG government Reaganista reactionaries happened and sent everything spiraling backwards a few decades…”

Followed by Bush’s Justice Department putting a drape over Lady Justice because Ashcroft thought she was a tramp -

RW-(the original)

April 21st, 2011
7:06 pm

SoCo,

One of you herculean government workers must have been monitoring me. As soon as I made that comment my service went down until just now. :-)

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 21st, 2011
7:06 pm

F. Sinkwich

GE cheated by writing and lobbying for the legislation that allowed them to seriously lower their tax liabilities. It’s legal now because of them stacking the deck with the legislation they wrote/lobbied for years ago.

Paul

April 21st, 2011
7:06 pm

TaxPayer

any idea what it pays? If it pays enough, it’s okay, right?

Paul

April 21st, 2011
7:07 pm

getalife

Still zero?

Just wait ’till my first Heritage report gets published…..

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 21st, 2011
7:07 pm

RW

They got me too because I’ve been trying to respond to Sinkwich for almost 30 mins. I’ve fed the blog monster about 3-5 posts now. :)

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 21st, 2011
7:11 pm

Nobody is cheating, or breaking the law, if they maximize their deductions to the legally allowable limit.

However, when you write the legislation, as a corporation and not a member of Congress, that allows you to maximize those deductions to damn near zero, that is cheating. Can the average citizen do the same thing?

TaxPayer

April 21st, 2011
7:12 pm

any idea what it pays? If it pays enough, it’s okay, right?

Probably not much. I hear the place is run by a Libertarian named Koch.

@@

April 21st, 2011
7:12 pm

Nice to see you finally admit I take a position on issues.

No appreciation necessary…..just don’t look to be taking up a position on me, Mr. Marshmallow Man.

:grin: :grin: :grin:

Mighty Righty

April 21st, 2011
7:13 pm

Jay, you have dropped too much acid when you were younger and stay off the weed. You are not thinking straight. The only people I know of not paying taxes are Democrats. We can name those. If you know some Republicans, name them. Anyone, Republican or Democrat who files a fraudulent return should be fined and jailed. What is missing here is a discussion of the AMT which my understanding is everyone has to pay a minimum tax. I don’t know anyone who thinks a family of 4 making $40k should be taxed, except maybe Obama. Obama is going to tax everyone if he increases taxes enough to cover his spending. Those cabinet members that forgot to pay their taxes belong in jail and your Congressman Rangel who writes the tax law you sre complaining about and claims to not know rental income is taxable is certifiable. Come on Jay, I like your column better when you are confessing your prior wrong position on Death Panels.

md

April 21st, 2011
7:13 pm

“Be sure to read my “long” post giving pertinent facts, and you will see that even if one tries to make the right choices in today’s world – the deck is more often than not stacked against them. ”

Life isn’t fair….or easy…….but giving one an out through excuses isn’t very teacher like.

So what if the deck is stacked? Just means one has to keep plugging……….

If I thought like you write, I’d still be poorer than dirt………..

Lift them up with where they can go, don’t keep them down by telling them the odds are they can’t succeed………..

AmVet

April 21st, 2011
7:15 pm

Paul @7:05, along those lines, I want to give a big shout out to Lil Barry for arguably the most irrational post of all time – “Bush fixed the recession”.

That guy has some serious issues…

Mike

April 21st, 2011
7:16 pm

Of course, no corporation really pays taxes. They just raise the price of their products and the poor working stiffs end up paying the embedded tax in the products they buy. Investors expect a certain return for their investment, and if the corporation didn’t raise the price of its products, to support the needed market return, those evil old Grandmas and 401k managers will move their retirement money to investments with higher returns.

Del

April 21st, 2011
7:18 pm

This is commentary based on desperation. Obama’s approval is falling like a rock and the generic congressional ballot has the Democrats 3 pts. behind Republicans. November 2, 2010 will be tame in comparison to the 012 elections. The bad news, however, is that this incompetent administration can do a lot more further damage between now and then.

Trash Trump '12!!

April 21st, 2011
7:20 pm

A toast!! [ gulp ]

and another rousing round of

Hail to the Chief!!

In future tense!

AmVet

April 21st, 2011
7:21 pm

Of course, no corporation really pays for the cost of goods. Or salaries. Or rent/mortgage. Or transportation costs. Or the cost for contractors. or for utilities. or for insurance. or for the thousands of other expenses.

They just raise the price of their products and the poor working stiffs end up paying the embedded cost for everything in the products they buy.

i.e. that silly “argument” is weak as water.

md

April 21st, 2011
7:22 pm

“Of course, no corporation really pays taxes.”

Shhh….some here don’t quite understand that corporations pay expenses (of which tax is one) derived from revenue generated by a product……….the label has them confused……..

Doggone/GA

April 21st, 2011
7:23 pm

“It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages.”
Henry Ford

Goes for taxes too

Trash Trump '12!!

April 21st, 2011
7:26 pm

According to Public Policy Polling, fully 23 percent of self-identified Republicans say they could not vote for any candidates who “who firmly stated they believed Barack Obama was born in the United States.

Oops. Guess you can say bye bye Mitt Romney!

Another toast!

To the Chief!

md

April 21st, 2011
7:26 pm

Well Am….they don’t call it “cost of goods sold” for nothing……………..the price is set after they know the cost to produce it……….otherwise, they wouldn’t be around too long…..would they.

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 21st, 2011
7:26 pm

AmVet

Hate to be EOI, but that argument does hold water..

http://www.peachpundit.com/2011/02/28/georgia-tea-parties-come-home/

To make matters worse, “financing costs” includes a legally mandated “return on investment” or as most of us would call it, “profit”, to the tune of about one billion dollars. Don Balfour and the rest of Georgia’s legislature made sure that you and I, but not large businesses, give Georgia Power – a large private company – a $1 billion advance profit on a plant that will not generate power for at least five more years.

Georgia Power is legally mandated to profit from it’s customers, so it must add that profit into the costs of it’s service. By law. Written in the Georgia Assembly. Signed by the governor. :???:

TaxPayer

April 21st, 2011
7:28 pm

Paul,

When you publish your Heritage report, just be careful about advertising the fact that you need a 2% unemployment rate along with who knows what else in order to achieve the results, even as bad as they are, in the Ryan yellow brick road map to prosperity for the wealthiest. Those guys try to keep stuff like that under wraps.

Paul

April 21st, 2011
7:28 pm

@@

“No appreciation necessary…..just don’t look to be taking up a position on me,”

And you’re the one who got all bent out of shape, saying I leveled a sexual innuendo (”I’ll bet all the guys say that to you”) at you?!!?

:-)

AmVet 7:15

You think? Check out the previous thread, page 8. All those times I’ve written about not reacting to people whose opinions should mean nothing? That was a test of that -

Paul

April 21st, 2011
7:29 pm

@@

Sorry, didn’t finish.

I just attributed your earlier response regarding the innuendo to

http://tinyurl.com/4y9a4rj

AmVet

April 21st, 2011
7:32 pm

My point is simple.

The end game for the non-conservative Republicans is for BIG business to pay zero federal income tax.

Because, their argument is that the BIG businesses don’t really pay it.

Well, if that is true, why should these BIG businesses pay for anything? As they apparently don’t really pay for any of it either?

BIG business uses everything individuals do, the roads, the electric grid, all of it.

They should pay their share for the bounty they enjoy and because of the ongoing corporate destruction of capitalism, to a gargantuan amount, they do not.

And you and I make up the difference.

No sale.

Paul

April 21st, 2011
7:35 pm

TaxPayer 7:28

If Heritage pays me enough, I’ll use whatever unemployment rate I have to to make the numbers show that, not only does GE pay no tax, it’ll benefit the country when we pay them a few hundred million a year for… I’ll think of some good-sounding reason. Someone will believe it…..