Who enters budget battle with advantage?

President Obama and congressional Republicans are clearly headed for a confrontation over the debt ceiling and the budget. So who is likely to enter the fray holding the upper hand?

A new Marist-McClatchy poll asks two of the more pertinent questions:

cutmed

Only 18 percent of registered voters, and only 25 percent of Republicans, want to take the approach championed by House Republicans in the Ryan budget. The rejection was overwhelming across every demographic.

So how about Obama’s preferred approach?

raisetax

Almost two out of three registered voters — and a substantial minority of Republicans — would support raising taxes on those making more than $250,000. The poll was taken around the time of President Obama’s speech on the deficit, and those queried after the speech were significantly more likely to support Obama’s position than those queried beforehand.

As the old poem phrases it, “‘Will you walk into my parlor?’ said the spider to the fly….”

– Jay Bookman

725 comments Add your comment

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 19th, 2011
3:30 pm

NEW THREAD!!!!!!

YES!!!!!!

BMDPD

April 19th, 2011
3:32 pm

What, no more A,B,Cs?

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 19th, 2011
3:35 pm

One small difference is to want to do one thing for the deficit as opposed to doing something for the debt. Two different monsters there. If it were me, I’d let our tax sale end as it was supposed to do last year. Between now and then, we could evaluate every single program that the feds spend money on. By the time the rates reset, we should have uncovered every single case of overlap, waste, abuse, fraud, ineffectiveness, or anything else where money could be saved. Then, use the next 10 years to run that budget only to compensate for inflation. If there’s a huge surplus at the 10 yr mark, reduce rates on all without zeroing out tax liablity, and run it another 10 years. Keep putting the surpluses towards the debt. If surpluses does not materialize, then adjust the rates up by small amounts for all.

Stonethrower

April 19th, 2011
3:36 pm

Let’s hope for a more civil discourse for this thread………..NOT!

mm

April 19th, 2011
3:39 pm

And the GOP claims they listen to the public.

Only when it fits their agenda. And caters to their base.

Charlie

April 19th, 2011
3:39 pm

Not surprisingly, the public answered “let someone else pay for it”. It’s now the American way.

BMDPD

April 19th, 2011
3:40 pm

SoCo, unfortunately, the government accounting system breeds waste. The whole methodology is flawed. It basically works like, “Um, I better spend what I am budgeted for this year or they will take it next year.” You would be shocked at the number of not needed items purchased in September.

Peadawg

April 19th, 2011
3:40 pm

A. Cut Medicare and Medicaid
B. Raise taxes on those who make more than $250k/yr
C. All of the above

Let’s just hope Republicans and Democrats can come together and do “all of the above”! Right now it seems both sides are set on either/or but not both.

BMDPD

April 19th, 2011
3:41 pm

The funny thing about this is that a lot of people on these blogs were saying that the Republicans wouldn’t win the house either. Anything can happen.

BMDPD

April 19th, 2011
3:42 pm

I am 100% for the Gang of 6 solution! And NO, I have not read it. Unfortunately, our president thinks like this:

As the audience applauded, Obama said he wanted a society where “the American dream was affordable to everybody.”

The Fallen

April 19th, 2011
3:43 pm

Oh Jay, another post hoc ergo propter hoc argument? Yawn

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 19th, 2011
3:43 pm

BMDPD

If it’s done by outside accountants who are well versed in Chapter 11 proceedings, I’m sure we could cut plenty of the budget without harming the country. I wouldn’t rely on government accountants to do that. That’s just like asking Congress to vote on their pay.

md

April 19th, 2011
3:43 pm

Yep….the good ole morally bankrupt among us is growing……….the fingers are all pointing out……

Ask not what your country can do for you……vote for your neighbor to take care of it………

1811/1801 - 0311/0317

April 19th, 2011
3:43 pm

Jay:

That’s a terrible chart. I like the ziggly colored lines best especially when they cross !!

But, in answer to your quesstion, those who know most about business and that sure ain’t Obama.

BMDPD

April 19th, 2011
3:44 pm

Don’t get me wrong. I want all Americans to have the American Dream. I would like to see it through hard work and Christian charities, not government subsidies.

getalife

April 19th, 2011
3:46 pm

Get your government hands off my Medicare and SS.

We need to get our country back.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

April 19th, 2011
3:46 pm

Add to that the low “turnout” at recent Teaparty events and the fired up Dem base…..seems the backlash to the “backlash” is in progress.

BMDPD

April 19th, 2011
3:48 pm

Jay, you leave out a lot of variables. The one that comes to mind is that raising taxes on the 250 and up crowd, puts a modest dent in the deficit. Until we raise taxes across the board and cut across the board, we are still sinking.

jm

April 19th, 2011
3:50 pm

When you make vague, useless, vacuous promises, of course they register better on public appeal polls. See also, from David Brooks. Ryan v. Obama….

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/opinion/15brooks.html?ref=davidbrooks

jm

April 19th, 2011
3:51 pm

Oh yes. And I guess, like a broken record, I am forced to remind everyone that raising taxes on the rich does nothing to close the deficit. It closes the gap by about 5%. Just 95% more to go Obama….

getalife

April 19th, 2011
3:51 pm

You cons are committing political s uicide voting to end Medicare.

You tried to steal SS then lost.

Try something new like helping people cons.

jm

April 19th, 2011
3:51 pm

Obama is not a serious President. I’m sorry, he’s not. Time for a new one.

jm

April 19th, 2011
3:52 pm

getalife – for the good of the country, as Coburn said in different words, it is sometimes necessary for politicians to be willing to lose elections.

Lil' Barry Bailout

April 19th, 2011
3:53 pm

Almost two out of three registered voters — and a substantial minority of Republicans — would support raising taxes on those making more than $250,000.
—————

I thought the objective was to sustantially cut the Obama deficits. That won’t do it, but don’t let facts get in the way of your attacks on the productive.

jm

April 19th, 2011
3:53 pm

FYI, for those thinking of investing abroad. Don’t go to China. That probably merits the response of “Duh!”, but just thought I should say it. Based now on personal experience….

BMDPD

April 19th, 2011
3:53 pm

Sorry all. As SoCo said, everything “the the feds spend money on” needs to be looked at. Nothing should be off the table.

Del

April 19th, 2011
3:53 pm

That same polling organization has Obama in negative approval territory, so I don’t know if that positions him with the upper hand or not. What is certain, however, is that if these entitlements aren’t reformed and we keep on borrowing more money there just won’t be Medicare or Medicaid in any form for future generations.

getalife

April 19th, 2011
3:53 pm

Shared sacrifice means your precious spoiled billionaires too.

They don’t need your help cons.

Stand up for a change.

jm

April 19th, 2011
3:54 pm

LBB 3:53 – bingo….

md

April 19th, 2011
3:54 pm

“The one that comes to mind is that raising taxes on the 250 and up crowd, puts a modest dent in the deficit. ”

Matters not if an individual has already entered into the selfish realm……………..in the olden days, the debt crisis would have been “our” problem…………pretty sad that the me generation has turned it into “their” problem.

Bosch

April 19th, 2011
3:55 pm

Oh thank God a new thread — that conversation below was getting wacky.

Peadawg

April 19th, 2011
3:57 pm

“You cons are committing political s uicide voting to end Medicare.”

I don’t think anyone hear said anything about ending it. There should a ‘whatever percentage” cut ACROSS THE BOARD…not just Medicaid, Medicare, SS, and DOD. Notice I never mentioned the word, “end”.

getalife

April 19th, 2011
3:58 pm

jm,

Go for it.

It’s a loser and you are handing the dems this election.

md

April 19th, 2011
3:58 pm

“Try something new like helping people cons.”

Out of curiosity, if we continue to “help people” at the rate we are “helping”…….in the long run, when we have a major crisis, how many did we actually “help”?

Some folks can’t see the forest because of the trees………….

Lil' Barry Bailout

April 19th, 2011
3:58 pm

Let’s make a deal–we’ll return to the Clinton tax rates AND the Clinton spending levels of about $1.8 trillion, K?

Bosch

April 19th, 2011
3:59 pm

Peadawg,

You’ve obviously never been around old people. They don’t hear so well — you say anything about anything to do with Medicare, and they will come after you with a pitchfork.

Just saying. Old people are mean.

getalife

April 19th, 2011
4:00 pm

pea,

Your party voted to end Medicare like they tried with SS.

You will never admit it.

Bosch

April 19th, 2011
4:00 pm

” has Obama in negative approval territory, ”

You know Del, that really doesn’t matter — it’s all about who you gonna vote for.

jm

April 19th, 2011
4:00 pm

getalife 3:58 – not really, since the stalemate will carry over until 2012. It’s really an electoral tossup though I give the advantage to R’s if economic conditions stagnate.

jm

April 19th, 2011
4:01 pm

getalife – even a Democrat campaign manager admitted on Sunday that Obama’s poll numbers stink. He’s trying to dig himself out by engaging in pandering politics. Its pretty sad and pathetic, but one shouldn’t be surprised I suppose.

getalife

April 19th, 2011
4:02 pm

jm,

Keep hope alive.

Nobody will beat him.

Lil' Barry Bailout

April 19th, 2011
4:02 pm

Sad but true–taking handouts away from losers causes them to vote against you.

jm

April 19th, 2011
4:03 pm

Well, Jay. If we just did what the polls suggest, then we would lower taxes to 5% and double social security and medicare benefits and never cut spending.

So lets just do what the polls say…..

Peadawg

April 19th, 2011
4:03 pm

“pea,

Your party”

Nope, not my party. I’m an Independent these days.

BADA BING

April 19th, 2011
4:04 pm

Tuesday’s Topix………Kirstie Alley puts the OX in Foxtrot.

TaxPayer

April 19th, 2011
4:04 pm

How will the Republicans keep their promise of bigger and bigger tax cuts to their wealthiest supporters without a source of funding such as Medicare and Medicaid. But wait! We all know that tax cuts increase tax revenue so cut taxes for the folks making less than $250,000 and use the revenues from that to give to the wealthiest.

AmVet

April 19th, 2011
4:05 pm

BMDPD @3:44,

“A society that has more justice is a society that needs less charity.” ~Ralph Nader

getalife

April 19th, 2011
4:06 pm

lil bar,

You paid for it but you don’t have to use it.

Let the government keep your money and buy private insurance.

TaxPayer

April 19th, 2011
4:06 pm

So, I see Independents are not in favor of Ryan’s plan either. Of course, I am generalizing. Peadawg is clearly an outlier.

Left wing management

April 19th, 2011
4:07 pm

BMDPD: “Don’t get me wrong. I want all Americans to have the American Dream. I would like to see it through hard work and Christian charities, not government subsidies.”

What about through hard work, Christian caritas, AND the stirring of emancipatory passions among the people?

“Until we raise taxes across the board and cut across the board, we are still sinking”

Good of you to concede that both these things will be necessary.

1811/1801 - 0311/0317

April 19th, 2011
4:08 pm

Enter your comments here

Peadawg

April 19th, 2011
4:08 pm

“So, I see Independents are not in favor of Ryan’s plan either. Of course, I am generalizing. Peadawg is clearly an outlier.”

Not sure what an outlier is…but I’m not in favor of Ryan’s plan just for the record.

1811/1801 - 0311/0317

April 19th, 2011
4:10 pm

BADA BING:

I wonder how much she does weigh “on the hoof” ?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

April 19th, 2011
4:10 pm

Well, Mr. Breadthorpe that owns the beer distributorship here says if they take away his tax break he’ll have to drop one of his country club memberships and maybe turn in one of his co. cars—the Lincoln. Then he’ll have to take it out on somebody let somebody at the warehouse go.

But they need to take their hands off of my SS and Medicare too. I’m just a couple years from drawing it and like I said before they better send the 2nd Marine Regiment up here if they even touch these programs. They’ll need them till I run out of ammo.

So we got no choice. We got to raise taxes big-time on Those People and the welfare queens and the jobless bums that set around and expect me to pay taxes to support their useless butts.

And I bet the whole state of FL will vote Republican in 2012. All those geezers will see how much sense it makes to take away the regular Medicare and just give out vouchers they’ll flock to the polls so they can line up to buy regular health insurance and get screwed have health insurance like the rest of us.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

Lil' Barry Bailout

April 19th, 2011
4:10 pm

So the net of all this is that the Idiot Messiah is bravely offering to do the politically expedient thing, and the Republicans want to do what’s best for the country. Got it.

jm

April 19th, 2011
4:10 pm

Polls also show that voters don’t approve of obama’s handling of the economy and deficits by a 2-1 margin. That is what they’ll vote on in November 2012.

1811/1801 - 0311/0317

April 19th, 2011
4:10 pm

Jay:

Maybe you could do a chart ?

Jay

April 19th, 2011
4:10 pm

Gov’t by poll, jm?

Actually, in this case you sell your fellow Americans a little short. The same poll asks Americans to choose one among three priorities:

Reduce the deficit: 57 percent;
Cut taxes: 14 percent;
Maintain services and programs: 27 percent.

And yes, as several have noted, simply raising taxes on the rich will not be close to sufficient. But those numbers do show how absolutely ridiculous and unrealistic the GOP approach really is.

md

April 19th, 2011
4:10 pm

S&P sent a wake up call………must have been that 3am call and nobody picked up the phone.

The argument about not raising the debt ceiling will be moot if the misfits continue to do nothing…….both courses of action will lead to the same outcome………lower credit ratings.

Seems they plan on screwing us no matter which direction they plan to go.

And class warfare is not the answer………those folks have just as many weapons in their arsenals as the feds do…….maybe even more. This isn’t the 50’s anymore (to those that referenced that yesterday), the globe has changed dramatically and folks with that kind of money are quite mobile. If a staunch dem like Kerry will try to skirt paying his taxes…….I can only imagine what a die hard righty would do……………..

TaxPayer

April 19th, 2011
4:11 pm

Peadawg,

“Outlier” is statistics talk for a data point that don’t fit the trend.

1811/1801 - 0311/0317

April 19th, 2011
4:13 pm

The most tragic thing about Obama’s presidency is that it will cost a rational, fiscalliy responsible, America loving, honest black man the chance to be president for another 100 years.

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 19th, 2011
4:14 pm

The most tragic thing about Obama’s presidency is that it will cost a rational, fiscalliy responsible, America loving, honest black man the chance to be president for another 100 years.

Only if we rely on the votes of those who use one person to paint an entire race of people.

Don't Tread

April 19th, 2011
4:15 pm

“Who enters budget battle with advantage?” I have a better question: Does it matter?

It appears that the goal of each side is not to reduce the debt, but just add on to it more slowly while beating up the other side as much as possible. (Fail.)

Finn McCool

April 19th, 2011
4:15 pm

Cut tax loopholes on everybody.

Big D

April 19th, 2011
4:15 pm

No surprise. The something for nothing folks are always willing to spend someone elses money. The good news is, it will come back to bite and everyone will pay, sooner rather than later. When it happens, the moochers who cannot admit their own self imposed limitations, will blame the Rich, the Business Owners, the Republicans, someone other than themselves. I hope I live to see it. It will be fun to watch.

Finn McCool

April 19th, 2011
4:16 pm

Only if we rely on the votes of those who use one person to paint an entire race of people.

And only if we continue to vote on party lines and not on who the best candidate is.

Reasonable Voice

April 19th, 2011
4:17 pm

What platform will Obama run on in 2012?

Paul

April 19th, 2011
4:18 pm

Jay

Polls aside, we’ve a group in the House who have a mission. I’ve a feeling they’ll say “polls be damned, this is what I was elected to do by my constituents.” Can Spkr Boehner reign them in? Or get enough Democratic support to forge a deal? We’ll see.

The other issue: we’re going to get treated to a lot of sound bites and misinformation that may turn the numbers. IF Republicans come on with “we are NOT cutting Medicare, even for the under 55s” then opposition may weaken. Democrats need to hit a few points – including the misleading analysis used by Ryan – to keep the pressure on.

Even to weaken Republican support on the tax issue. A statement of theoretical principle is one thing. A real-world requirement is another. Keep presenting the “this pays for that” in the Republican budget. Especially “this tax cut for billionaires and millionaires is paid for by making your kids and grandkids pay more for Medicare.”

Finn McCool

April 19th, 2011
4:18 pm

Let me fix this typo:

the moochers — the Rich, the Business Owners, the Republicans, who cannot admit their own self imposed limitations – will blame someone other than themselves.

There you go.

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 19th, 2011
4:18 pm

The good news is, it will come back to bite and everyone will pay, sooner rather than later.

That was Dec 2010, but people were whining about raising taxes during a recession. 3% would not have hurt those who were already working.

md

April 19th, 2011
4:19 pm

“And only if we continue to vote on party lines and not on who the best candidate is.”

Well…that just wiped out 2/3’s of the country………….

Get Real

April 19th, 2011
4:19 pm

Gosh Jay, I guess polls would reject the recommendations from the president’s own debt commission. Time for tough choices, go ahead and raise the rates on hard working, productive Americans to 90%; that will be the equivalent of throwing a brick in the Grand Canyon as far as attacking debt.

At the end of the day we are faced with easing dependant Americans off the government heroin (metaphor) and that is going to be extremely hard as we have created multiple generations of addicts. The demagoguery going on right now by the Democrats is absolutely absurd and shameful but then again that sort of bull$hit has been successful in the past so why not do it again. The only problem with that is NOW, we are $14 trillion in debt and the Democrats either do not get it or simply do not care…period

Having so much foreign debt is a massive security risk to this great nation and Jay I do not see you writing one single article about that and more precisely the need to wean the addicts off the government heroin.

Obama simply refuses to do anything as he is one giant empty suit that only wants to create class warfare and get re-elected. He could give one crap about the future of this country.

getalife

April 19th, 2011
4:21 pm

Medicare and SS does not belong to to the gop or the dems.

It belongs to all the American people that have paid into it.

It is not a handout or welfare yet you cons are stuck on that stupid talking point.

Try something new cons.

Boring lies.

Jay

April 19th, 2011
4:21 pm

Get Real, by claiming that you haven’t seen me write one single article on that topic, surely you mean that you’ve seen me write dozens.

Get Real

April 19th, 2011
4:23 pm

Try again Jay, I was referring to specific point of weaning the masses of the government heroin..

Finn McCool

April 19th, 2011
4:23 pm

The good news is, it will come back to bite and everyone will pay, sooner rather than later.

Seems like the people on the lower end of the spectrum have been paying for it for about 30 years now. I’ll take my chances with letting the untouchables int eh Rolls Royce’s start giving back some to keep the country (who’s very existence makes it possible for them to make that money)

Jimmy62

April 19th, 2011
4:24 pm

Who cares? Until politicians get serious, and tell the people that the United States will fall unless our much larger unfunded liabilities to SS, Medicaid, and Medicare are dealt with (which means cutting benefits, as all the money from all the rich people in the country won’t cover this), then we all lose!

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 19th, 2011
4:25 pm

At the end of the day we are faced with easing dependant Americans off the government heroin (metaphor) and that is going to be extremely hard as we have created multiple generations of addicts.

Are you referring to the individual addicts or the corporate addicts? Delta just proved how hard it will be to get the corporate addicts weaned by the actions of the Georgia Assembly this year.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

April 19th, 2011
4:25 pm

Finn McDork….you simply cannot be that big of a fking moron

Less than an 1 hour in (4:21) and we have the namecalling we’ve all come to expect (unfortunately)…

TaxPayer

April 19th, 2011
4:25 pm

Get Real

April 19th, 2011
4:21 pm
Finn McDork….you simply cannot be that big of a fking moron

No, he can’t be but I think we can guess who is just by looking at one of their posts.

Finn McCool

April 19th, 2011
4:26 pm

Get Real can’t fathom reality. It hurts too much.

Jimmy62

April 19th, 2011
4:27 pm

Getalife: It’s not a handout, it’s a Ponzi scheme. This is easily verifiable by simple logic. If everyone under the age of 40 decided to move to Brazil, there would very quickly be no more money to give to current and future retirees. Ponzi schemes only work till you run out of suckers, and right now everyone under the age of 40 is the next line of suckers.

jm

April 19th, 2011
4:28 pm

Jay 4:10 – glad to see most voted to cut the deficit. Of course, once they get specifics, they all say: “ooooh no we can’t do that”

Reasonable Voice

April 19th, 2011
4:28 pm

“President Obama and congressional Republicans are clearly headed for a confrontation over the debt ceiling and the budget. So who is likely to enter the fray holding the upper hand?”

Since when is this about Obama and the Republicans? This is about America going bankrupt, Jay.

Peadawg

April 19th, 2011
4:29 pm

getalife,

Both Medicare and Social Security payouts are exceeding revenue….something needs to be done to fix that.

Jay

April 19th, 2011
4:31 pm

So Jimmy, if everyone over age 22 fled to Brazil, that would leave no money for schools.

Does that make education a Ponzi scheme?

jm

April 19th, 2011
4:31 pm

Jimmy62 3:27 – maybe so, maybe not. I’m trying to get a ticket out of here, but its not easy….

Kind of like a Mexican trying to get into the US, heaven only knows why they would these days though.

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 19th, 2011
4:31 pm

Ponzi schemes only work till you run out of suckers, and right now everyone under the age of 40 is the next line of suckers.

And if keeping that “Ponzi scheme” is part of the cost of being an American vs being a Brazilian, then I’ll be a paying sucker. There’s no better place to live than the US of A. Too bad many people here want to pay Techwood Homes rent for Buckead living.

Paul

April 19th, 2011
4:32 pm

So, anybody here with kids or grandkids happy with the Ryan plan to give them vouchers and pay the difference out of their own pockets? Remember, you have your own dealings with your own insurance companies to guide you in what you think might happen.

AmVet

April 19th, 2011
4:33 pm

“Are you referring to the individual addicts…?”

SoCo, I would never presume to speak for Mr. Get, but methinks he means the 4,300,000 Americans who make between $50,000 and $100,000 and another 485,000 Americans that make between $100,000 and $500,000 and yet another 18,000 Americans who make $500,000 or more and who pay NO federal income tax…

Those must certainly be the addicts he feels the most outrage about…

jm

April 19th, 2011
4:33 pm

Jay 4:31 – technically it does make public education a wholly subsidized business, so yes in a way. I’m in favor of a combination of grants (we essentially have 100% grants now) and loans to replace part of the grant. Probably increasing up to 50% of the funding formula over time.

pogo

April 19th, 2011
4:33 pm

Jay and his brethren are absolutely obsessed with tax increases because they see them as the answer to every social and fiscal problem that this country and this world can ever have. Nary a word will you ever hear them utter about cutting government spending (except on national defense). That is what progressives do (amongst other things) to maintain their voting base. They promote the old “blame the guy that is better off than you and make him pay By-God because you deserve what he has!) thing. The idea of career social parasites never enters into a progressive’s mind but believe me there are millions of them in this country. The democrats have been developing and fostering a class of people who are totally government dependent in this country since 1965. The democrats figured out long ago that it will buy them votes at no cost to themselves, only to the taxpayers footing the bills for these parasites.

Taxing alone will not do the job Jay. Man-up and admit that social government spending, in all of its many and abused forms, is also going to have to be drastically cut or the children of tomorrow, who you progressives claim to care so much about, will have no quality of life at all. If spending is not cut big-time very soon, those very same children will be nothing but endentured servants to other nations such as China, India and now Brazil to be used as they see fit. We’re almost there already. It is incredible and sad to watch people knowingly walk off a cliff with their eyes wide open and a smile on their face.

ty webb

April 19th, 2011
4:34 pm

“…want to pay Techwood Homes rent for Buckead living.”

nice analogy Soco, yet if it’s accurate, what about the “squatters”?

jm

April 19th, 2011
4:34 pm

SoCo 4:31- “There’s no better place to live than the US of A. ”

Not exactly true, but mostly true. There are a good number of places that are better.

Paul

April 19th, 2011
4:35 pm

Jimmy62

“.This is easily verifiable by simple logic. If everyone under the age of 40 decided to move to Brazil”

Sorry, you lost me on the simple logic of an idea everyone under 40 would up and move to Brazil.

Jay

April 19th, 2011
4:35 pm

And Get Real, cease the namecalling.

Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

April 19th, 2011
4:35 pm

pogo

Good thing I’m not a progressive or Democrat for that matter. You make them sound like evil tax fiends….

Jay

April 19th, 2011
4:36 pm

Pogo, I’ve written what you claim I would never write more times than I can even remember, including on this very post.

Read, then rant.

Jay

April 19th, 2011
4:37 pm

Well Paul, back when I was under 40, Brazil did have a certain appeal…

Blitz Wolfer

April 19th, 2011
4:38 pm

When politicians are in favor of robbing Peter and giving the ill-gotten gains to Paul, they can always count on the support of Paul.