In Libya, a glimpse of a new world order

For the first time since World War II, the American people seem prepared to reconsider both the size of its military and the role it plays globally. We’re beginning to realize that it’s no longer realistic for the United States to spend as much on its military as the rest of the planet combined, because the overwhelming economic dominance that once sustained that arrangement has disappeared and will not return.

Such a change will have important implications for our allies, many of whom have very prosperous, Western, high-tech economies much like our own. But for the last 60 years, they’ve been able to hide in our shadow, spending very little in relative terms on their own defense because the good ol’ Americans were always so eager to step in and handle that responsibility for them.

The consequences of that arrangement have become apparent in Libya, where U.S. planes led the initial assault on Moammar Ghadafy’s air defense systems and then largely withdrew, clearing the way for France and Great Britain to carry out sustained aerial attacks on his armor and massed forces.

But as the Washington Post reports, they’re already running out of precision bombs, “highlighting the limitations of Britain, France and other European countries in sustaining even a relatively small military action over an extended period of time, according to senior NATO and U.S. officials.”

Libya “has not been a very big war. If [the Europeans] would run out of these munitions this early in such a small operation, you have to wonder what kind of war they were planning on fighting,” said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a defense think tank. “Maybe they were just planning on using their air force for air shows.”

Actually, they were. Our allies — at our encouragement and at times even insistence — have long assumed that we Americans would do any real fighting that came along. They sustained just enough of a modern military to let them pretend they had a modern military, while the U.S. taxpayer spent trillions of dollars on the real thing.

As a result, we can sit here mildly amused by the fact that they’re already running up against their limitations in Libya, a task they insisted they could handle. But it raises the question: Who’s been getting the better of the deal for all these years?

– Jay Bookman

976 comments Add your comment

BMDPD

April 18th, 2011
9:27 am

BMDPD

April 18th, 2011
9:29 am

That is because our allies spend more on butter than guns. Because they have socialized programs, their military suffers. Sure that is ok, because the Americans will bail us out!

blue_unicorn

April 18th, 2011
9:30 am

“But it raises the question: Who’s been getting the better of the deal for all these years?”

The europeans. It will be interesting to see how their economies will handle the task of funding their own defense.

RW-(the original)

April 18th, 2011
9:32 am

But it raises the question: Who’s been getting the better of the deal for all these years?

If we care about being free and independent then we have.

jm

April 18th, 2011
9:32 am

“ecause the overwhelming economic dominance”

undermined by overly grandiose social programs….

WOW #1

April 18th, 2011
9:33 am

“In Libya, a glimpse of a new world order”

The new world order consists of Islam taking over Europe. The birth rate of the French, British etc is waaaaaaaaaay down compared to Muslims.

I find it hilarious that left wingers overlook that fact.

blue_unicorn

April 18th, 2011
9:34 am

“If we care about being free and independent then we have.”

That’s pretty funny. A little early for that sort of humor. You are joking, right?

Bosch

April 18th, 2011
9:34 am

“Because they have socialized programs, their military suffers”

I agree, they care more about the health and well being of their citizens than blowing up stuff.

WOW #2

April 18th, 2011
9:35 am

“That is because our allies spend more on butter than guns. Because they have socialized programs, their military suffers. Sure that is ok, because the Americans will bail us out!”

EXACTLY!!!!!!

America has shielded Europe since WW2. Europe’s welfare state is coming to a harsh end. The Euro is dropping like crazy and European countries are going bankrupt.

poison pen

April 18th, 2011
9:35 am

As a result, we can sit here mildly amused by the fact that they’re already running up against their limitations in Libya, a task they insisted they could handle. But it raises the question: Who’s been getting the better of the deal for all these years?

Obviously, everyone else, It’s always American blood shedded for everyone else.
While I really don’t like Trump I do like a lot of his views, if we go to war then we should reap those benefits, such as Iraq paying us back 2 times fold.
If we are to help other countries fight for freedom ( which I don’t believe in ) then why should our taxpayers foot the bill.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

April 18th, 2011
9:36 am

No question that they have relied on the US willingness to defend them and have been encouraged by the US to do so (they have to remain allies if they depend on us for military support). Its time to reexamine the entire system and to finde real solutions.

jm

April 18th, 2011
9:37 am

speaking of who’s getting the better deal

America’s Banker May Tell Geithner to Go Away: William Pesek
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aIYopi0ZMXPI

getalife

April 18th, 2011
9:38 am

The occupations are not paid for.

They are using borrowed money to run them.

And we are attacking the deficit?

BS.

Good little liberal

April 18th, 2011
9:39 am

Jay

Good post, but we’ve not had the upper hand for a long time. Remember when Clinton started running out of cruise missiles? I’m for bringing them all home and drilling here while regulating the sale of our natural resources off shore.

there are so many obvious and simple solutions.

WOW #2

April 18th, 2011
9:39 am

Off topic #1

Thanks a lot, Obama. This is what happens when you elect an inexperienced community agitator who never held a real job in his life.

S&P Affirms US AAA Rating, Cuts Outlook to Negative

Standard & Poor’s on Monday downgraded the outlook for the United States to negative, saying it believes there’s a risk U.S. policymakers may not reach agreement on how to address the country’s long-term fiscal pressures.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42643384

Soothsayer

April 18th, 2011
9:39 am

poison pen

April 18th, 2011
9:40 am

RW, please explain how we are getting the better of the deal by allowing our children to die for other
backwards countries, I just don’t get it. How does it make us more independent and free when we already are?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

April 18th, 2011
9:42 am

Hmmm, why I thought Bush admin promised that Iraq reconstruction would not be paid for the US:

3/27/03 testimony before a Senate Appropriations Hearing
a. Rumsfeld: I don’t believe that the United States has the responsibility for reconstruction, in a sense…[Reconstruction] funds can come from those various sources I mentioned: frozen assets, oil revenues and a variety of other things, including the Oil for Food, which has a very substantial number of billions of dollars in it.

b. Wolfowitz: We’re dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.

Scott

April 18th, 2011
9:42 am

“I agree, they care more about the health and well being of their citizens than blowing up stuff.”

yeah and those social programs are starting to come back to haunt them. yet, you want to follow the path they already realized is a future failure. I am not surprised by your desire though. After all, you will probably follow the same path to failure when you go into a voting booth in 2012 and cast a vote for Obama again.

Good little liberal

April 18th, 2011
9:43 am

poison pen

Trump is going to be a game changer whether he runs or not. I know that most leaders of other countries would hate for him to be elected. At this point,his supporters are sort of like the people that watch Jerry Springer. Nobody does it, but for some reason, Springer’s rating are always high.

poison pen

April 18th, 2011
9:43 am

Wow, don’t worry Geithner wants to raise the debt limit, it’s kinda like overcharging on your Visa.

getalife

April 18th, 2011
9:44 am

China has a inflation problem finally slowing down their economy.

We can cut our defense budget in half to start paying for the occupations instead of borrowing the money to fund them.

poison pen

April 18th, 2011
9:44 am

Good Lib, I totally agree.

Paul

April 18th, 2011
9:45 am

“we can sit here mildly amused by the fact that they’re already running up against their limitations in Libya, a task they insisted they could handle.”

Captures my sentiments.

(RW-the original) – yes, we do get benefits from what we’ve done. But now, it seems, there’s a more refined calculation underway – determining if we have a national security objective, and if we do, how large it is on its own and also in relation to the security interests of our allies. If ours is minimal, and/or if theirs far outweighs ours (as in Libya) then we let them handle it.

____________________________________________________________________________

But did everyone notice: when Pres Obama clearly announced our limited objectives in Libya, the chorus of criticism from Republicans (and a few Democrats) was:

- why are we not going in to remove Gadhafi?

- why are we letting another country lead?

- who thinks American troops should take orders from a foreign general?

- it’s embarrassing for us to have the world see another country’s military doing more than we are.

“Mine’s bigger” seems to rule the foreign policy decisions of this crowd.

So…. if we’re tired of getting played as the rich uncle willing to bail out the irresponsible family, it means we don’t need to spend more than they do (combined) on defense, yes? (PS – that means an end to middle and upper class and corporate welfare….)

Good little liberal

April 18th, 2011
9:48 am

Scott

Oh no. Plan on Obama being president for four more years. He certainly can’t lead, he is corrupt and to be honest, rather dim-witted, but the guy can certainly run for office. And never underestimate the most powerful political machine, aided by the most powerful media the world has ever known. We are stuck with Obama and these libs will still be defending him in 2016 when we are paying 20 bucks a gallon for gas.

Jackie

April 18th, 2011
9:49 am

The US military is expected to solve all the problems of the world, according to the so-called conservatives, yet, the so-called conservatives say we don’t have enough money to take care of our own domestic priorities.

ty webb

April 18th, 2011
9:49 am

“our children to die for other…”

What a ridiculous statement that insults all of our men and women who serve. Do us all a favor and adopt a different talking point or cheer. You know, “no blood for oil” or “war is not the answer”. Those two “cheers” are of about the same intellectual value, but are atleast a little bit less offensive to our soldiers.

WOW #4

April 18th, 2011
9:49 am

“Wow, don’t worry Geithner wants to raise the debt limit, it’s kinda like overcharging on your Visa.”

Geitner, the tax cheat, is one of the biggest dumb a$$es in the history of the United States.

“China has a inflation problem finally slowing down their economy.”

Yeah, I was just reading about their inflation problem that will soon be our problem.
Get ready for war with China and very soon.

“We can cut our defense budget in half to start paying for the occupations instead of borrowing the money to fund them.”

We should cut medicare, end the department of education, abolish the IRS and get rid of all other welfare programs.

Good little liberal

Trump is showing the GOP how to take it to Obozo. He needs to attack Obozo’s terrible economic record and make him defend Obozocare. When you make the Democrats defend Obozocare, they will lose the next election. BIG TIME.

Another thing to consider is the fact that the rust belt states went red last November which is great. It also helps that people have moved out of blue states like crazy.

2012 is gonna be fun.

Mick

April 18th, 2011
9:50 am

**S&P Affirms US AAA Rating, Cuts Outlook to Negative**

More like thanks a lot repub house, they are the ones that hold the purse strings…

Scott

April 18th, 2011
9:51 am

Paul “(PS – that means an end to middle and upper class and corporate welfare….)”
It does???? Really? Where is your logic in making this assertion? Honestly, I really could care less of how to made this conclusion because I am sure you will just give us all some hippy, crunchy, liberal explanation on corporate greed blah blah blah BS. I just thought I would point out the ridiculousness of your statement.

Good little liberal

April 18th, 2011
9:52 am

getalife

I always wonder why libs want to cut the military budget. It’s like a whole society that is supported by the government, but the people actually work for a living. Do libs really just want people to set on their behinds and collect money from the government for doing nothing?

poison pen

April 18th, 2011
9:52 am

The IRS stated this weekend that 45% of households don’t pay income taxes, that is absurd. Everyone wants to use Great Britton as an example for healthcare, what they don’t tell you is that all income levels pay taxes on top of healthcare taxes.

BMDPD

April 18th, 2011
9:52 am

Keep@ 9:36. Hey, we found something we agree on.

carlosgvv

April 18th, 2011
9:53 am

Jay, unfortunately you are forgetting a few things. America has dumbed down to the point where Tea Party and other far right politicians are only getting stronger. And, the Military-Industrial Complex, which relies totally on these types, is only likely to keep doing business as usual, regardless of who gets hurt economicaly in America.

Jackie

April 18th, 2011
9:54 am

@WOW

If you think the Moody’s downgrading of our debt rating is bad, watch what happens if the so-called conservatives block the debt ceiling increase. It will make the past recession seem like child’s play.

BMDPD

April 18th, 2011
9:54 am

That was an enlightening article poison, did you watch the tax myths video that was embedded?

Normal

April 18th, 2011
9:54 am

All I know is that as long as we are the only ones fighting, our kids are the only ones coming home in “heroic flag draped coffins”. That should not be the natural way of things. It’s way beyond time to get out of the “world police” business. We can’t afford it in lives lost or money spent. We have this deficit, remember?

War is not pro life.

Scott

April 18th, 2011
9:54 am

“Do libs really just want people to set on their behinds and collect money from the government for doing nothing?”

Absolutely. Libs are either
A.) the people do the very thing, or rather do NOTHING
or
B.) the people that benefit from the power of having that happen.

BMDPD

April 18th, 2011
9:55 am

Jackie, the conservatives are not planning on blocking it. That was the headline on fox this morning.

USinUK

April 18th, 2011
9:56 am

“the people that benefit from the power of having that happen”

criminey.

your high school english teacher just called.

she’s weeping.

Don't Tread

April 18th, 2011
9:56 am

“the overwhelming economic dominance that once sustained that arrangement has disappeared and will not return”

…thanks to NAFTA and Clinton heading the effort to give China “most favorable” trade status back in the 90s. Now they use that money to develop weapons (or buy them from the Russians) to use against us. And they also finance our national debt…not because they want to be a good trade partner and help us out, but because they know they can use that against us at a time of their choosing.

So all of you who once had a good-paying manufacturing job but can’t find any job that doesn’t pay more than minimum wage, be sure to thank Mr. Clinton. And when we can’t defend ourselves because we can’t afford the military or it has technologically fallen behind the enemy, you can also thank Mr. Clinton (and the rest of the liberals).

JKL2

April 18th, 2011
9:57 am

First obama is throwing Israel under the bus. Now we are looking to arm and train Taliban to help overthrow Guadafy? Brilliant.

The enemy of my enemy isn’t always my friend.

Bosch

April 18th, 2011
9:57 am

“I am sure you will just give us all some hippy, crunchy, liberal explanation on corporate greed blah blah blah BS”

Yeah, Paul, you freaking hippy you. :lol:

jm

April 18th, 2011
9:57 am

Stock Futures, Treasuries Fall as S&P Reduces U.S. Outlook
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aGw_woLffNE8&pos=2

zoiks

poison pen

April 18th, 2011
9:57 am

ty webb

April 18th, 2011
9:49 am
“our children to die for other…”

What a ridiculous statement that insults all of our men and women who serve. Do us all a favor and adopt a different talking point or cheer. You know, “no blood for oil” or “war is not the answer”. Those two “cheers” are of about the same intellectual value, but are atleast a little bit less offensive to our soldiers.

Ty, I stand by my statement, it’s our children who are dying on foreign soil, for what? Yes they are soldiers but they are someones children. Please learn to comprehend what you read.

blue_unicorn

April 18th, 2011
9:57 am

Jackie – It would be immoral to raise the debt ceiling. Obama said so.

jm

April 18th, 2011
9:57 am

Standard & Poor’s Puts ‘Negative’ Outlook on U.S. AAA Rating

Scott

April 18th, 2011
9:58 am

Carlos… “America has dumbed down to the point where Libs actually got the country to vote for an incompetent idiot with zero experience in running anything to occupy the white house because they thought it was an American Idol Competition. And, the Democratic Party, which relies totally on these types, is only likely to keep doing business as usual, regardless of how bad America gets hurt.”

There I fixed your typos…..Your welcome.

WOW #5

April 18th, 2011
9:58 am

“More like thanks a lot repub house, they are the ones that hold the purse strings…”

Huh, and here I thought Obama was president. (sarcasm for the unintelligent)

“If you think the Moody’s downgrading of our debt rating is bad, watch what happens if the so-called conservatives block the debt ceiling increase. It will make the past recession seem like child’s play.”

1: Jackie, do you even understand what debt is?

2: Do you understand that if you keep spending what you don’t have, you will go bankrupt?

Senior Citizen Kane

April 18th, 2011
9:59 am

“I agree, they care more about the health and well being of their citizens than blowing up stuff.”

Right, Bosch. When did a European country ever get anybody involved in a war? LOL

blue_unicorn

April 18th, 2011
9:59 am

Bosch – Nice to see you. Happy tax day. Please do tell us what lead you to underpay your taxes? I expected to hear you bragging about overpaying to protest the Bush tax cuts.

WOW #6

April 18th, 2011
10:00 am

“your high school english teacher just called.”

Did that English teacher tell you about capitalizing the fist word at the beginning of a sentence?

Jackie

April 18th, 2011
10:00 am

@BMDPD

I will believe what the so-called conservatives say when they show it with their actions.

Paul

April 18th, 2011
10:00 am

Scott

Welfare: statutory transfer of monies to groups to enhance their well-being. Sometimes a service is expected in return for the largesse, but oftentimes the service is one which would not be demanded in a free and open market.

US is number one arms supplier to the world. DoD even has formal program (Foreign Military Sales) to manage it. This, and our own military’s weapons systems, are provided by corporations and high-paid professionals and workers. IF we have been producing much of this, supported by (borrowed) taxpayer dollars, and IF it is going for a need (support of other countries’ interests) that we now decide we aren’t going to do, then IF we continue to not cut defense, then we are spending money to support companies and their employees for that which we don’t need.

Follow that?

Also – as evidenced by Congress’s establishing the Base Realignment and Closure Commission to close unnecessary military installations that remain open only because of the political clout and interests of Congressmen and their supporters, much of what we had and still have was for facilities, and all the people we pay for that which we do not need,/i>.

In other words, welfare.

willie lynch

April 18th, 2011
10:01 am

WOW #1

April 18th, 2011
9:33 am

The birth rate of the Caucasion is down. People of color are not losing numbers in this arena.

More to your point Jay, this maasive military we have is no longer necessary. We out gun the world in unimaginable numbers. The problem is we will be decreasing the size of one of our largest employers. The idea that the U.S. has to be the first responders to any world action is old thinking, partly due to U.S. paronoia at anyone else arming themselves at the rate we have.

The role of world policeman is no longer our best fit, we need to become true partners with other countries and let them shed the same blood as our kids have for “freedom”. The money spent and made on war by far exceeds that which we spend taking care of our citizens.

poison pen

April 18th, 2011
10:01 am

WOW, we won’t go to war with China because it would be a nuclear one and nobody wants or wins that one.

N-GA

April 18th, 2011
10:02 am

Eisenhower warned Americans about the dangers of our military joining forces with big business. I guess he didn’t anticipate the GOP being complicit in that problem.

“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist.”

RW-(the original)

April 18th, 2011
10:02 am

Paul,

I wasn’t going to bother with all the cheap shots, but since you also seem to be reading more into my comment than is there I’ll try to clarify. My comment really could have done without the free and just gone for independent. In answer to Jay’s question, if we strive to be truly independent, or as independent as one can be in a global marketplace, then we couldn’t do it any other way. If you have to rely on someone else for your defense then you can’t be an independent country. It’s darn near the dictionary definition.

There is also an argument to be made for our military dominance keeping down the threat of having to fight a world war every 20 or 30 years.

Anyway, I gotta get to the forest…….or maybe the links, damn it’s nice out there.

Later

Mary Elizabeth

April 18th, 2011
10:02 am

Power – and world influence – come in different ways. War is not the only avenue for solving world conflicts. When consciousness expands, dictatorships can fall from within. Nonviolence is a force for change in our world, as much as, or more than, war.

MLK Jr. is praised today, but when he was alive, his ideas were threatening to many. It took Arizona decades to even approve of a MLK Day. Here the prophetic words of MLKJr. about war, and America’s role within it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92-r05TH9qs

Left wing management

April 18th, 2011
10:02 am

Consider which country is the largest and by far the strongest economically among our allies: Germany. As the Libya intervention demonstrates, Germany is nowhere near being willing to overcome its past and take up a more militaristic, or at least military-friendly approach in international affairs. It’s a little odd when you consider the long-standing presence of US bases and military technology there. Then again, perhaps that helps to explain their reluctance.

In any case, one wonders to what extent that posture can continue when necessity intervenes.

The timing here is also very difficult. The Germans are already being required to put their economic strength behind efforts to shore up the currency union, the fate of which could also have real implications for any future military role the Germans might play as the de facto military force for a European political union.

Again, German reluctance towards any military role in the Libya affair indicates that any change in their approach to military intervention is still quite a long way off. And if the Euro ends up failing – which I’d say probably is a 50-50 chance – that could complicate Germany’s return to the international stage even further.

Scott

April 18th, 2011
10:03 am

USin UK….No, that is exactly what I mean. “The people who benefit from having that happen” When the poor keep getting poorer and entitlements continue to increase, it is the Democrats who benefit from it. They WANT people to be on welfare because that is their voting base. I really do not see where the confusion is.

Del

April 18th, 2011
10:03 am

This is hardly a revelation that our NATO allies have spent little to maintain their own defense capability let alone any significant offensive capability. It was that way throughout the cold war and it hasn’t changed. Obama allowed himself to be talked into wasting over a half billion dollars and risking the lives our military by Hillary Clinton against the advise from the Pentagon. The president embarked on a foolish military boondoggle once again displaying his incompetence. The poorly armed and led rebel force is losing and we don’t even know, nor did we, how much better or worse they may be than Ghadafy.

Jackie

April 18th, 2011
10:04 am

@WOW

I understand what debt is and the ramifications of what happens when you don’t repay the principle and debt-service obligations.

Now, do you understand the ramifications of contracts and the impact of default of the world’s economy?

poison pen

April 18th, 2011
10:04 am

blue_unicorn

April 18th, 2011
9:59 am
Bosch – Nice to see you. Happy tax day. Please do tell us what lead you to underpay your taxes? I expected to hear you bragging about overpaying to protest the Bush tax cuts.

He probably seen al those commercials where people brag about how they owed a ton of taxes and got away with paying 5 cents on the dollar.

Rational

April 18th, 2011
10:05 am

Senior Citizen Kane – thanks for the laugh.

Bosch

April 18th, 2011
10:06 am

Hi blue unicorn! Nice to see you too — I’ve always like unicorns. Anyway, I underpaid my taxes because of some money I got from my mom when she died last year. I paid what I was told to pay, but it turned out not be enough after all the numbers were crunched.

Anything else??

Paul

April 18th, 2011
10:07 am

RW-(the original)

Eveything I’d posted below the ‘_______________________________” was not for you.

Morning, N-GA

Welcome back. This topic should be right up your alley. Have a new cast of characters since you were last here. I do think you’ll figure out pretty quick what the deal is.

kayaker 71

April 18th, 2011
10:07 am

I wonder if Japan and Germany had an active viable military we would be occupying their respective countries? The scary thought is if countries like this have a military strong enough to defend themselves they become a war threat themselves.

poison pen

April 18th, 2011
10:08 am

Del, What do you mean poorly armed, I saw them in pickup trucks with slingshots.

George W

April 18th, 2011
10:08 am

Yeah Willie you should be very proud!! hahaha

Good little liberal

April 18th, 2011
10:08 am

WOW #4

The media is already making a joke out of Trump. Remember, they were able to save Harry Reid’s job just by marginalizing his opponent. That’s what they do.

Democrats have worked for years to dumb down America just for moments in history like this.

You come on here every day and point out to these same people the facts around Obama’s failed presidency. But what do you get in return? Do they offer intelligent counter arguments to your points? Of course not. And these people actually hold down jobs and drive cars.

We have the worst economy in our lifetime and Obama seems to either be a complete moron or is in league with his buddies that have always wanted to bring down this country. Unfortunately, there are no other options except those two.

If you or I would post anything from FOX News or the National Review, they would go into convulsions, but they talk about Salon or the Huffington Post like they were legitimate.

No pal, I’m afraid that we are stuck. The movie Idiocracy comes to mind when I think about a voting public that would elected a community organizer to lead the free world. Now think about it. Do you really believe that the people that voted for Hope and Change have gotten any smarter? Just look at what libs want to discuss on this blog.

I’m sorry. I’m building a house in the mountains. A big liberal city like Atlanta is not where I want to be during the next 6 years.

Have a good one. I need to go to work.

LeeH1

April 18th, 2011
10:08 am

I am glad to be the largest military power. I think Japan, Italy and Germany should depend on others for their military protection. After all, we all know what happened the last time they spent big bucks on large armies.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

April 18th, 2011
10:08 am

Did that English teacher tell you about capitalizing the fist word at the beginning of a sentence?

Always funny when the spelling/grammar checker can’t spell the words in his faux criticism. Then again spelling/grammar critique by a blogger is a sign of a weak commentary and nothing really to add.
_________________

BM – glad we can finaly agree on some facts. Hope we can find more to agree on.

Gator Joe

April 18th, 2011
10:08 am

Jay,
It is funny to hear the Chickenhawks, especially the Republicans, whine now that they discover sabre rattling and military adventurism actually costs money. The lives, tragically lost, are another matter though they don’t trouble themselves since they, or their children, are never at risk.

jm

April 18th, 2011
10:10 am

On topic.

Yes, Europe for a variety of reasons has been free-riding. Its high time its over. They can buy their own smart bombs if they want to continue the Libya affair. However, the US is going to look weak as hell if Gaddafi retains power.

Also of note on insane stuff in the ME. I think the Saudis are seriously po’d about what is happening to Mubarak and his sons in Egypt. Ergo, they “think” there’s too much oil around and they need to cut back supplies.

The world’s a rough place, as Obama is finding out. The Saudis are out to take Obama down with high oil prices because he threw all their dictatorships under the bus.

Good little liberal

April 18th, 2011
10:10 am

willie lynch

Are you actually bragging about out-breeding another race?

Paul

April 18th, 2011
10:11 am

Scott

Ref my 9:45 answer and your ““Do libs really just want people to set on their behinds and collect money from the government for doing nothing?”

Absolutely.”

Is it your position that when poor people receive funds for ‘doing nothing’ it’s welfare, but if middle to upper-income people have their entire livelihood as a result of receiving funds to produce that which we do not need then it’s not welfare?

Remember, without those gov’t funds paying them to produce stuff we don’t need, those people would also be without incomes. In other words, poor.

jm

April 18th, 2011
10:11 am

Everything going down but for the VIX and gold. How interesting….

Scott

April 18th, 2011
10:12 am

“Then again spelling/grammar critique by a blogger is a sign of a weak commentary and nothing really to add.”

And that is where you enter the picture.

jm

April 18th, 2011
10:13 am

I want to know WTF Bernanke is thinking. And whatever it is, I don’t think he’s actually saying it. Or if so, he’s a lot dumber than he lets on.

Mick

April 18th, 2011
10:14 am

gll

What a crybaby, as if every problem in the US began on 1/20/09.

jm

April 18th, 2011
10:14 am

“The U.S. is the only large AAA rated country that saw its debt rise during the crisis that until recently had no plan that would reverse the trend, Steven Hess, senior credit officer at Moody’s, said last week. “

George W

April 18th, 2011
10:15 am

Mick….nope but is sure getting worse.

The Thin Guy

April 18th, 2011
10:15 am

Our military isn’t prepared to fight as it once was because of massive cuts in spending on our Armed Forces and morale has hit rock bottom because a Marxist Muslim in giving the orders and one of his orders is to recruit perverts. The solution is obvious or as Taxatoous Governor Michael Duncekakis once said: A fish rots from the head. Only one year, six months, and 15 days until the next election!

N-GA

April 18th, 2011
10:16 am

Good morning, Paul. I suspect little has really changed on the blog. I occasionally drop in, but have found other ways to pass the time. If only I could believe that one thing you have posted has made an extremist from either side re-think their position on issues relevent to their fellow man.

Jackie

April 18th, 2011
10:16 am

@blue_unicorn

Raising the debt ceiling is not immoral; it allows us to work and earn money to maintain ourselves and our families.

What do you think?

blue_unicorn

April 18th, 2011
10:16 am

Bosch – Sorry to hear about your mom. My mother passed away a few years ago. I didn’t underpay my taxes from the estate. What’s your problem? Having a math teacher in the family doesn’t help?

Rightwing Troll

April 18th, 2011
10:17 am

“Blowing stuff up”, bombs, and a strong military all have thier place in our economy, it’s just that “that place” isn’t Iraq, and since OBL was allowed to ride out of Tora Bora on a donkey, no longer Afghanistan. And certainly not Libya.

All three of these countries come to us with a hand out and a dagger concealed behind thier backs. There is no negotiating with honor with the mideast, they love to haggle, and will never live up to terms they set once thier goals are met.

stands for decibels

April 18th, 2011
10:18 am

Our military isn’t prepared to fight as it once was because of massive cuts in spending on our Armed Forces and morale has hit rock bottom because a Marxist Muslim in giving the orders and one of his orders is to recruit perverts

Preverts. P-R-Everts.

If you’re going to write like a stereotypical backwoods half-wit, do it right.

Paul

April 18th, 2011
10:18 am

N-GA

Hope springs eternal –

I still have a brisket (proper whole one) to hand off to you next time you transit thru DFW airport.

blue_unicorn

April 18th, 2011
10:18 am

Jackie – Would you care to explain the position of Barack Obama on raising the debt ceiling?

retired early

April 18th, 2011
10:19 am

Jay

I just hope the GOP hawks don’t use China as justification for continuing to fund an unnecessarily large military. China is similar to the former USSR. Due to their “one child only” policy, their population will become top heavy with elderly citizens. The report I watched, predicted dire consequence for the country in the coming decades. They will need a mass infusion of immigrants to support their retired population, something unheard of in Chinese culture.

BMDPD

April 18th, 2011
10:19 am

“…had no plan that would reverse the trend…..” How many years have we had a Democratic controlled Senate? How many years had we had a Democratic controlled house until the recent election? Now the Democrats still control 2/3 of legislative and executive branch, and they want to point fingers at the GOP. And libridiots buy their jargon and call conservatives stupid! What is going on?

Left wing management

April 18th, 2011
10:19 am

Our military isn’t prepared to fight as it once was because of massive cuts in spending on our Armed Forces and morale has hit rock bottom because a Marxist Muslim in giving the orders and one of his orders is to recruit perverts

The mob gurgles …

Jackie

April 18th, 2011
10:19 am

@Think Guy

Please provide some evidence to bolster your claim about our unprepared and low moral military. I believe we have the finest and most expensive military in the world.

stands for decibels

April 18th, 2011
10:20 am

As to Jay’s topic, this has been another edition of What Jay Said.

Except for the “mildly amused” bit, because I don’t see anything amusing about any situation where actual unarmed humans are being slaughtered with our Freedom Bombs, or theirs.

Rightwing Troll

April 18th, 2011
10:21 am

“Would you care to explain the position of Barack Obama on raising the debt ceiling?”

Why it’s the same exact position that W held… it was perfectly fine with you then… Can you explain your duplicity?

Jackie

April 18th, 2011
10:21 am

@blue_unicorn

I can not explain the position of President Obama if he did claim that raising the debt ceiling is immoral. However, by not raising the debt ceiling would be catastrophic for the world’s economy.

Paul

April 18th, 2011
10:22 am

Jay

off topic (introduced now as it appears most comments are of the ‘fire and forget’ type, not the ’set a position, get a response, engage in discussion” type). General Ricardo Sanchez (USA, retired) may be running as a Democrat for the Senate seat from Texas vacated by Sen Kay Bailey Hutchison.

He’s one guy a lot of Republicans could vote for.

“”I would describe myself as during my military career as supporting the president and the Constitution,” Sanchez said. “After the military, I decided that socially, I’m a progressive, a fiscal conservative and a strong supporter, obviously, of national defense.”

Sanchez, a Rio Grande City native, said he was shaped by his upbringing.

“It’s my views and my history, having grown up in South Texas, depending on social programs and assistance, that America has a responsibility to its people,” he said”

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/04/15/3004469/retired-general-being-recruited.html

Scott

April 18th, 2011
10:22 am

Paul,

Those people that work for the government contractors would probably end up just taking the jobs of somebody else, pushing more people down into the government assistance category which would only widen the gap between the wealthy and the poor.

There will still be an upper middle class along with all of their greed and wealth that you envy so much. Your assertion that it would eliminate the upper middle class, or whatever it is that you wrote, is just flat-out stupid because it assumes that if the government stopped spending money on defense, they would not find some other useless thing to blow it on like Green Energy. Many of those same people you say would be out of work, would be doing those jobs. I am sure if that happened though, you would say that they are hardworking individuals that deserve their high end salaries and they do not need to be taxed more because they are preventing global warming, wouldn’t you? I mean shoot, that is how you guys feel about GE and their “corporate welfare” right? Only, their corporate welfare comes because they support Obama.