The fiscal insanity of a $220 million tax cut

It’s typical of Republicans

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“Times are tough. But with state tax revenues already ravaged by a deep recession, they aren’t tough enough to discourage our state legislators from proposing a new $200 million tax cut, with most of the benefits directed toward those Georgians who are already doing well:”

Since “those Georgians doing well” already pay the vast majority of the taxes, jay, maybe you could tell us how to structure a tax decrease that does otherwise.

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(and, yet, it’s the DEM party that’s pawning our children’s inheritance … oy)

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It’s Bush’s fault.

“Almost 150 years ago, a man by the name of William Tecumseh Sherman came to town and bragged that “I intend to make Georgia howl.” These days, we’re doing it to ourselves.”

So give more of your money to the IRS, Jay.

“Georgia’s roads and bridges are crumbling, in part because we are 49th in the country in per capita spending on transportation.

Ever been to Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan? Their roads are HORRIBLE.

But yeah, it’s all the GOP’s fault.

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everybody knows the best way to reduce debt is to spend more!!

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“Our neighbor to the west, Alabama, collected $617 more in state revenue per capita than Georgia. Mississippi collected $565 more per capita. South Carolina collected $566 more per capita than Georgia. ”

Maybe you should move to Alabam, Mississippi, or South Carolina. Having been to all three recently, I prefer to stay here.

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our unemployment rate is 10.2 percent, well above the national average. In 1999, we ranked 21st in the country in per capita income, and were rising fast, up from 35th in 1979. Ten years later, in 2009, we had fallen back to 39th, which is worse than we ranked 30 years earlier.

Jay, that’s not a bug, that’s a Slavery 2.0 feature, you silly goose, you.

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Jay

Why does it have to be, that when you fool most of the people all of the time, it has to be the people in your legislature?

Texas has one of the worst budget shortages in the nation. Know what some of these conservative, free market Republicans are doing?

Ending lucrative tax breaks for corporations.

In other words, increasing their taxes.

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“you unthinkingly regurgitate the slogans’

Like these?

HOPE AND CHANGE

CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN.

YES WE CAN

WTF

IMPEACH BUSH NOW

OUT OF IRAQ NOW

Those?

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Jay, on the other blog I called you out for bashing Bush for deficitds, but embracing Obama for doing the same. You said Obama has to ahve deficits because of the recession. Is Georgia not in recession? Why is extension of the Bush tax cuts good but a modest tax reduction of taxes in Georgia bad?

Is it because democrats did one and republicans did the other?

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Fiscal insanity is the GOP way, isn’t it?

Overall, state tax revenues in Georgia have fallen by 27 percent per capita over the last ten years, making Georgia the number one state in the nation in that regard.

We’re #1!! We’re #1!! We’re #1!! We’re #1!! We’re #1!!
Oh, wait. That’s not a good thing to be #1 in is it, especially when your infrastructure is crumbling and nobody wants to bring serious jobs there because workers would be stuck in traffic for hours which cuts into worker productivity.

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taxpayer – 9:54 – cuz everyone knows, when big corporations make huge profits they go on a hiring spree!!!

oh, wait …

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“In 1999, we ranked 21st in the country in per capita income, and were rising fast, up from 35th in 1979. Ten years later, in 2009, we had fallen back to 39th, which is worse than we ranked 30 years earlier.”

How do you think unchecked illegal immigration plays into that?

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Thanks for the reality check Jay. This is information that is public, yet politicians say otherwise pumping theories of re-energizing the economy with such measures. In all seriousness people, it takes money spent to have money made.

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On Tuesday the Committee on House Administration issued a statement that included a definition of “essential employee” in case of a government shutdown.
________________________
someone “whose primary job responsibilities are directly related to constitutional responsibilities, related to the protection of human life, or related to the protection of property.”
________________________

Sounds like a litmus test that should be applied to all government employees, shutdown or not.

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I would not mind the $200 million tax cut if the same bill had $200 million in spending cuts.

The Reagan model is not the model we want to follow. Reagan cut taxes and increased spending. The taxes cut resulted in no great increase in revenue and the lack of spending cuts to match the loss in revenue caused the first multi-trillion dollar National Debt. A trend that continues to this very day.

Cuts in revenue must be offset by cuts in spending. Anything else is juvenile, at best.

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“What gets me is the total lack of thought exhibited by some posters. if the Democrats do something (no matter HOW insane) it is immediately “good.” They can’t tell you WHY it’s good though just type in some cute little slogans. ”

Fixed it for ya, fred.

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Oh yeah Harry. It’s all “them mesicans” fault. Well thought out point. You got me convinced. Let’s all go out and shoot an illegal for God and Country. THEN we will all have jobs and the cash will come flowing in………..

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“Jay, by citing everything on a per capita basis, you obviously raise the question: how much of state government spending is variable, and how much is fixed?”

Careful now, jm. Your question is dangerously close to the one I posed at 9:59. You are asking the liberals to move past throwing ouot numbers and actually doing some meaningful analysis. They really haven’t got the intellectual chops for that type of thinking.

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Fred, nice ad hominem attack, and nice dodge of the question. You have established your liberal bonafides to my satisfaction.

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Maybe, and I bet this has something to do with the rationale behind them cutting taxes, if we lower corporate income taxes in this state we’ll attract some business from the states with higher corporate tax rates? It only makes sense, at least to those of us able to think for themselves. And, it seems to be working, since every time I look at the Atlanta Business Chronicle (which I admit isn’t much, cause I have better ways to put myself to sleep at night) I read about some new company that is moving here or thinking of moving here. But, all tax cuts are a bad idea if they help the rich, cause only the government can decide when you have enough money, and how much of what you earn you should be able to keep.

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Stuff like this – 200 million dollar tax cut – explains stuff like this:

This should come as something of a surprise: President Barack Obama’s approval rating is near even in Georgia, with 47% of voters approving of his job performance to 48% who disapprove.

Moreover, he stands a decent chance of becoming the first Democrat to carry the Peach State since Bill Clinton in 1992. He trails the two Republican front-runners by just three points apiece, and he’s ahead of Sarah Palin and Georgia native sons Herman Cain and Newt Gingrich.

Public Policy Polling

Keep it up Georgia GOP – Please.

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Sounds like a litmus test that should be applied to all government employees, shutdown or not.

What about those responsible for processing the payroll for those “essential” employees? What about the support staff like IT for those “essential” employees? The “essential” employees will be working, but payroll will not. “Essential” employees will not get paid until a resolution is signed and then “non-essential” payroll people come back.

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I agree now is not the time for Georgia to reduce taxes. Neither is it the time to increase taxes. Using per capita statistics to make a point is equally wrong since the emphasis is on population rather than any number of other causes. Our states revenue problem is caused by our deteriorated economy. Adjusting tax rates up or down could have consequences that may not be positive. There will be no increase in revenue until there is a major improvement in our economy and there will be little if any improvement until business has confidence our government is not hostile to business.

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” And, it seems to be working, since every time I look at the Atlanta Business Chronicle (which I admit isn’t much, cause I have better ways to put myself to sleep at night) I read about some new company that is moving here or thinking of moving here”

So, why is our unemployment still one of the worst in the nation? Maybe because they think of coming here and go, “eh, nevermind…”

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There is plenty more that can be cut, but then we would have people like Jay writing about how insensitive we are (like they don’t already), and how we are trying to kill the poor and elderly, and don’t care about children and blah blah blah. Why is it the government’s responsibility to take care of me if I don’t make the effort to do it myself? Children are excluded from that question, because they are too young to take care of themselves by definition, but no one else is. Personal responsibility needs to make a come back in this country.

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Yeah, Bookman thinks we ought to throw more money at the disfunctional school boards in Atlanta, Dekalb, Clayton, etc….

Funny that anytime disfunctional school boards or governments come up, those three are mentioned and Gwinnett is never named. Is it because of the make-up of those boards, and not the disfunctionality of the boards themselves?

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“No, I won’t share the profits in my company. But you should want this company to do better and you will show that by working 80 hours….and by the way, we are cutting your benefits – you now get 5 full paid vacation days a year. Sorry, but someone has to pay”

Hey Finn- go start a business- it really is that easy. I hear Goldman Sachs will even loan you a million $s secretly offshore just for starting the business.

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The Obama administration’s $75B foreclosure prevention prevention program has been weakened, perhaps fatally, by lax oversight and a posture of cooperation – rather than enforcement – with the nation’s biggest banks. Taxcheat Geithner and the Treasury department were charged with enforcement. Way to go, Mr. President! Heckofa job, Taxcheat!

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Jay 10:09 – see my post a second ago. I’d say generally (but not always) yes.

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“Yeah, me too, problem is, there’s nothing left to cut”

well, I was going to say education, but it looks like “cut the boards of education” beat me to it

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I say we let the roads go to pot so the companies can’t get their goods to the stores to sell in Georgia. Then they will moan and still not want to pay the taxes that can fix the problem.

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I’m sorry Jay, did I miss something last week when the AJC ran a big article talking about how the unemployment rate was falling in Georgia?

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Normal/SoCo

It is altogether rather interesting to put that article in relationship to the discussion here (no currency though it may have)…if you look at Mississippi’s figures, then look at what/who is behind the Mississippi surge of recent decades, no small part of it is due to it’s skillful play of the Choctaw card…Georgia could learn a lesson from that…

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What are these supposed representatives in Atlanta thinking?

These facts illustrate for Georgia what the facts regarding Reaganomics illustrate for the nation as a whole.

Trickle down is an absurd joke. Even if it wasn’t misguided in the beginning. And that is being gracious.

And the middle class Republicans who vote for these borrow and spend fiscal frauds continue to work against their family’s own self interests and for the plutocrats who don’t even need more welfare. Truly amazing.

Which when you think about it is one of the great con jobs in the history of western democracies…

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“go start a business”

I love how that’s the right’s answer to anyone who DARE demand good working conditions! “start your own business! start your own business!”

gosh, if EVERYone did that, there would be no employees … but, other than that, your model makes perfect sense! (oy)

no. as a worker who provides a service that makes contributes to making the company profitable, I deserve fair compensation for my time, adequate time off (which 5 paid days – including sick days – is NOT), and a safe working environment

anyone who says that’s unreasonable just wants us to return to the days of serfdom and “the company store”

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Politicians, esp conservatives, have said to run the state as a business. Well, this business is going bankrupt!

Why don’t we just fire the legislators and their staffs and turn the government over to big business…cut out the middle man. That way businesses can pay no taxes (even though tax monies address transportation, education, and water- which are needed by business to thrive) and we can reinstate slavery (no collective rights or solutions for the good of all…just business).

We are No 50! Yeah! Invert the list; then we can be No 1! Let’s add Puerto Rico and DC to statehood so we could be No 52! er…Still be No 1 on the inverted list!

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You could shrink the state budget (and better allocate capital in Georgia) if the following were done:

1. Interstates converted to tolls for maintenance and expansion
2. Education funding shifted from “grants” to partial grant, partial loan, with parent cash participation.
3. Medicaid was shifted to block grants and directed at those most in need, and for those not in need, the remaining cash used to provide market insurance subsidies.

There. Now if Deal will just do that, I can go eat lunch and take a nap, and live in peace and happiness.

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that should be either makes a contribution or contributes … sorry for combining the two (need more tea)

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“You show me one place in the Constitution of this state or the country that says we have to provide 90% of the things we provide for the people of the state and country”

of the people
by the people
FOR the people.

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Harry,
don’t bother trying to explain to our lib friends…they see racism around every corner.

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It’s always fascinating how left wingers b!tch and cry about how stupid, poor, retarded etc GA is yet for some odd reason they choose to live here.

Michigan, Illinois, Ohio etc are all losing its population due to lack of jobs, high taxes etc and the left wingers in GA are b!tching about GA.

If you guys/gals hate GA so much, MOVE! Delta is ready when you are.

“if all those companies keep moving here, how come we don’t have jobs and our per capita income is plummeting in relative terms?”

Some of those companies aren’t in full operation yet, Jay.

The KIA plant, for instance, which hired a lot of workers, hasn’t opened just yet.

VW is building a massive plant in TN on the GA border and hasn’t opened yet.

Tell us, what blue states are doing well?

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“What about those responsible for processing the payroll for those “essential” employees? What about the support staff like IT for those “essential” employees?”

Contract it to the lowest bidder.

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jm – 10:18 – with the exception of education funding, I’m right there with ya

FL has no problem with toll roads – I don’t know why GA doesn’t follow suit

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So, when did GA all start falling apart?

IMHO? When GA reverted back to its historical kneejerk conservatism that guided it from, well, the pre-Button Gwinnett days. We had a few decades of somewhat enlightened, mildly progressive governance as we emerged as The State Too Busy to Hate, or whatever it was called.

That’s long gone, pecan.

(and yes, most of the GA conservatism had a “D” after the name, back in the day, save for, arguably/roughly, the Goobernatorial run from Jimmy to Roy. It has an “R” now.)

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Well Rational, if all those companies keep moving here, how come we don’t have jobs and our per capita income is plummeting in relative terms?

The few companies that do move here, tend to bring their workers with them because of the lack of highly trained workers here. Georgia’s last big industry was construction. Carpet installers and roof shinglers do not always make the best IT troubleshooters.

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Josef,
When the first Native American casinos were started, I said good deal.
Now the Red Man is the house and he will eventually win back America because the house always wins. Native Americans would run the counrty better than is currently happening.

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USinUK 10:21 – I’ll take 2 out of 3 thx

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Finn…you figured it out yet?

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How much of the national average do you think is people dropping out/giving up looking for jobs? How many of the jobs are temporary? I remember a few months ago we had this big national drop in unemployment that was all fueled by the census workers. Then they were all laid-off. I’m not saying that it is easy to find a job, and I have a feeling that a lot of these businesses that are moving here, are probably still in the process of moving. It isn’t an overnight process. I’m just saying that dismissing tax cuts for those owning businesses doesn’t make good sense.

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Harry has two degrees. There’s your problem. Georgia’s population is over-educated. We need cuts in education. We can’t afford to be giving out two degrees to every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along.

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WOW,

Yes, the lefties are remarkably discreet about their educational accompishments.

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This is a wonderful article this morning. To me it says that Georgia needs a new vision to find economic growth. The old vision is holding Georgia back.

Georgia’s leaders are stuck in ideological thinking in making economic policies instead of making policies according to what fosters growth. Generally speaking, investment fosters growth, even if that investment is in infrastructure. Politicians are not economists. They should follow examples of whatever works regardless of ideology. They should not make policy based on thinking they receive from ideological think tanks. (I even fear that some of our politicians may be in bed with those of throughout the country of their same ideological persuasion. I hope I am wrong on this concern.)

I want to see Georgia’s unemployment rate drop from 10.2 to 8.8 as the nation’s has done in recent months.

Thank you very much for this article, Jay. A new vision is needed so badly in Georgia – an independent, pragmatist’s vision which fosters new growth.

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WOW #5 – well, I’ll declare an econ degree. But not tossing out my alma mater. Given some of the garbage I’ve said on here (most of it in sarcasm, but not all), I’d prefer not to throw them under the bus.

Grant people some discretion and anonymity. Hell, you’re on videocamera almost everywhere nowadays. While nothing on the internet ever goes away, at least there’s the illusion of privacy. How ironic.

You can always just judge people based on the facts and legitimacy (or lack thereof) of their arguments.

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So illegals are significantly skewing the data?

US Census, 2010, Georgia had a population of 9,687,653.

Illegals estimated between 425,000 and 600,000.

http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=107

Subtracting the illegals (split the difference, make it 463,000) from total population, rerunning the revenue computation, drops the per capita revenue by about a hundred bucks.

Still below Florida. Doesn’t materially affect Jay’s point.

Hey Bosch, think you can fit all that onto a bumper sticker or t-shirt? Or even come up with a catchy slogan?

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ME 10:27 – Bloomberg for Gov of GA? Although, since he tossed out his NY term limits, he may be there until they cart him off in a casket.

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“Illegals have been in GA for decades. I remember INS doing raids back in the mid 90’s that amounted to round ups in the hundreds. That would lead one to think that illegals had an impact on the per capita numbers in the 90’s too.”

If you’re too clueless to acknowledge the enormous influx of illegals into Georgia in the last 10 years, there’s little I’m willing to do to help you. Try google.

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SoCo
As much as I would like to disagree with Jay’s last paragraph above and the rather snarky modus behind it, there is a great deal of truth to it…

Normal

The Mississippi model on that one is worth looking into…do a better job? I’m reminded of that old chief comment you sent the other day!

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“Kinda funny coming from folks that believe only the rich should have their taxes raised because “they have it”.”

just following Adam Smith’s recommendations.

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I’d LOVE for those who “think for themselves” to PROVE that tax cuts in a low-tax environment like Georgia CREATES anything but deficits and debt. Do you dunderheads HONESTLY think that Georgia dropping from 49th to 50th is going to create THAT much more growth? More than alleviating gridlock or improving K-12 education (and I don’t mean with more computers)? Some of you are so quick to (rightly) mention that the “one size fits all” features of many Federal initiatives and programs are all wrong for Georgia, but REFUSE to accept the fact that the “one size fits all” national debate over wasteful government spending DOES NOT translate to Georgia! But oooh…that kool-aid tastes so good.

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and yes, most of the GA conservatism had a “D” after the name, back in the day, save for, arguably/roughly, the Goobernatorial run from Jimmy to Roy. It has an “R” now.)

I actually think Sonny formed his own party called the “Sonny Party”- part of the new type “me first” politics. We don’t have two parties anymore- we have literally hundreds of parties that come with huge budgets and plans based on their own self importance and greed.

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What in the hell does a college degree prove other than you paid money to get a piece of paper?

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jm

My point is, some, not all, of these left wingers talk about how stupid conservatives are yet they never once set foot in a university. How many times have I been told by Keep or AmVet to “educate myself?”

“while it must be nice to simply make up facts to suit your argument, in actuality the KIA plant has been up and running for more than a year now.”

You know, you’re right. It was one year ago that the KIA plant opened for business. But, my VW comment still stands.

Nissan also moved their North American headquarters to Nashville a few years ago. Now why would all these huge companies open up in the south, Jay?

Alabama has Mercedes and Honda. GA has KIA. South Carolina has BMW and TN has VW and Nissan. It may only be a matter of time before FORD packs up and moves south.

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WOW #6 – I got your point…. and agree with it in part.

Hey, if we’re going to get a new plant, and everyone has BMW, Mercedes locked up. Can we get Audi or Bentley?

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Feel free to claim no deduction on your taxes and hence you will pay more. Simple right?

Oh wait, you want others to do that, but not you…

Before you demand more from others, give more yourself.

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Libertarian 10:37 – and I say raise the tax on food items. There are easier ways to help the poor (food stamps) rather than just making food artificially cheap.

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Now now, Libertarian, lets not go calling people names. And by that I mean Atlanta. Don’t you feel perfectly safe walking around downtown at night? I know I do(n’t). Just like I felt safe walking off campus when I was at Tech. That probably has a lot to do with it. I’m not saying the police in this town aren’t doing their jobs, I have much respect for them, but the town is not safe. It isn’t even safe to go into neighborhoods that were perfectly fine when I fist moved here 8 years ago.

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Libertarian

Except for one little thing…that “Atlanta” you’re damning is 500,000 of some 5 million in the metro…

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If you’re too clueless to acknowledge the enormous influx of illegals into Georgia in the last 10 years, there’s little I’m willing to do to help you. Try google.

Dude, I’m probably more aware about the influx of illegals than you’ll ever be. My point is that, in 1999, GA’s illegal population was not zero. They’ve been here. The influx of illegals more than likely has been offset by the number of legal people moving to Georgia. Have you compared the growth ratio of those two populations? If you’re too clueless to acknowledge that, there’s nothing I can do for you. You can probably find that information on google as well.

josef

I didn’t want to address that comment about WTS, as I know he’s not well received in these here parts…..

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As for Ford and Hapeville, the closure was part of the Dearborn, Mich.-based automaker’s “Way Forward” plan, which includes the closure of 14 plants.

See Atlanta Business Chronicle

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dang – 52 WEEKS / year … need. more. tea!

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uh WOW #4, the reason some of us live in Georgia is the big corporations tell us where we have to live if we want to keep our job. Its ussally a take it or leave it proposal.

I didnt choose Georgia, my employer did.

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“I’m not saying the police in this town aren’t doing their jobs, I have much respect for them, but the town is not safe. ”

For the most part, police “respond” to crime…..they rarely prevent it.

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“Okay – let’s all pay the same tax rate and get some parity the no one will be able to complain!”

as long as there are no deductions, you’ve got a deal

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“Someone seems very concerned about where I went to undergrad or grad school even to make up so-called quotes. I have never hidden my profession. Most here are well aware of my profession.

Not concerned at all, Keep. Just using you as a prime example of one who shoots his mouth off about other people needing to “educate themselves.”

And no, the only thing I know about you is that you talk about pooping skittles and meeting up with imaginary lobbyists at the local Waffle House.

I also know that you’re a terrible speller.

“Of course, real adults are not limited to the number of posts.”

Take it up with Jay, Keep. Not my problem if you have a hard time keeping up with my lightning fast typing abilities.

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“What in the hell does a college degree prove other than you paid money to get a piece of paper?”

Maybe you should ask a teacher. They always get a bump in pay when they get an advanced degree.

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opps…sorry about the dup…my original was in moderation for some reason

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Oh, sorry, Paul, didn’t see that post to me — I can fit just about anything on a bumper sticker, but don’t know if anyone will be able to read it with the small print.

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USinUK – no one is forcing you to keep the job you have now. Every job is a trade – a trade of your time and skill for your employer’s product. Whether that product be intellectual or physical. You chose to barter your time for a certain pay that you thought was fair to you, and your employer found fair to himself. The job was HIS to give you, not yours to take from him. If you decide to work for “trinkets” and not pay, that is your decision, no one can force you into it. I doubt that anyone that is trying to teach me about “capitalism and morality” has anything to say to me that actually makes sense though.

And for the record, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t be compensated “fairly” for your work, including a good benefits package, I’m just saying it is your responsibility to go out and find the job that is going to give you that.

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USinUK 10:42 – you’ve been in 1month vacation europe too long.

If people don’t want to work 52-7, they don’t have to.

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Keep Up, you seem to have a lot of insecurity about your lack of degree. The only suggestions i have for you are;

1) Get a degree (hard)
2) See a psychiatrist (easy)

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Well, it appears we have proven that liberal don’t value education. Does that really surprise anyone?

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Adam Smith never addressed the “won’ts” either………..there are many that actually CHOOSE not to participate………and the answer from many here…….tax the ones that have it.

Yep……makes sense to someone……..

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Finn – If that’s the way you want to think of your relationship with your employer, go right ahead. But it is your responsibility to decide how much of your time you’re willing to trade for his money. No two ways about it.

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So what IS your profession Keep? Not that it is in anyways germane to the discussion, but now you have me curious lol.

Speaking of ad hominen Harry………….. what is your “degree” thing? It’s nothing more than an implied assertion that anyone without a degree is somehow less intelligent or qualified to speak on a subject.

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Harry: THERE IS NO VALID REASON FOR REDUCING TAXES. Not when they are as low as they are. The only reason is “I want more of MYYYYYYYYYYYYY moneyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!” And that’s just a selfish and childish reason, not at all a valid one.

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Well, I guess if there’s going to be a penis measuring contest around here, I’m glad its at least about education level. That’s a sign of progress….

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“Mickey Mouse State College.”

Amvet,
Please try to be civil, and leave the university of tennessee out of this.

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“You righties are so lazy you have to find a liberal post, take that person’s statement, put it into a different context, and then post it?

Like no one will notice?”

No new context……….you complain about one group looking for a tax cut to avoid taxes….while the other group already pays a much smaller amount…………..

Priceless………..

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AmVet: The correlation between education and intelligence is far from absolute…

Indeed. I long for this country to catch up to other countries doing far better in education, who offer all of their students lower tuitions, better education overall, and subsidies if they can’t pay for the low low price it’s at. How do they pay the staff and such? TAXES. And who complains? Well, we over here in America complain that our education system isn’t as good. The people over there don’t complain about taxes.

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Harry, I have no concern about a lack of degrees. I have two and a professional license in 2 states. I currently have my own business. I also have a father who was a member of Mensa and was part of senior management at a large hospital system who never received a college degree but had real brains.

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Lawd ah MERCY!!!!

Another 7.4 earthquake off Japan? Tsunami alert?

How much more can that small island endure?

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jm @ 10:30

How about former Gov. Ed Rendell of PA as Governor of GA?

See below:

“Edward G. Rendell, Pennsylvania’s 45th Governor, began a second term of office on January 16, 2007, following a landslide re-election victory. As Governor, Rendell serves as chief executive of the nation’s 6th-most-populous state and oversees a $28.3 billion budget.

Governor Rendell’s unprecedented strategic investments have energized Pennsylvania’s economy, revitalized communities, improved education, protected the environment and expanded access to health care to all children and affordable prescription drugs for older adults. He championed and signed into law Pennsylvania’s first comprehensive measure to substantially reform the local tax system by providing urgently needed property tax relief to homeowners. In 2008-09 taxpayers will save nearly $800 million in the first year of statewide property tax relief from gaming revenues.

Governor Rendell is building on his efforts to make government more responsible to the public, and more responsive to the public’s needs. He has annually cut wasteful spending and improved efficiency to save more than $1 billion and is pursuing a legislative agenda that includes commonsense political reforms to put progress ahead of partisanship.

Under Governor Rendell’s leadership, Pennsylvania’s economy rebounded sharply. Governor Rendell’s economic stimulus plan is investing more than $2.8 billion to create new jobs and revitalize communities. Pennsylvania now ranks 15th in the nation for job growth, up from 41st at the beginning of Governor Rendell’s first term. And, Pennsylvania’s unemployment rate continues to be better than, or on par with, the national average. To ensure that all Pennsylvanians share in the benefits of our growing economy, the Governor successfully championed the first minimum wage increase in nearly a decade.

Under Governor Rendell, student achievement is on the rise at every grade level and in every subject. Pennsylvania’s public schools now have the resources to invest in proven education initiatives like pre-kindergarten, full-day kindergarten and tutoring. Pennsylvania has gone from one of the nine states in the country that failed to fund pre-kindergarten to a national leader in early childhood investment, and for the first time ever more than half of Pennsylvania kindergartners are in full-day programs.”

Read more on http://www.americanprogress.org Excerpts above from the Center for American Progress.

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How is it selfish and childish to want to keep more of the money I earned? Why is it only the government that is able to decide how much I need to survive and how much they should be allowed to take from me?

Because you want to keep it all, and give none to the government, and let private enterprise do the rest through charity and other such nonsense that you think will work as effectively somehow. The government gets to decide because you, presumably, go vote and write to your congressman and stay active in the process so you have a say, right?

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Libertarian…do you think that the inability to keep prisons open may be reason why “corrupt judges” allow criminals to walk with only a slap on the wrist? I hear all the whining about the stereotypical villians…illegal immigrants, urban welfare leeches, and the like…but absolutely NOTHING about the prisons and police academies shutting down and the courts being starved into inadequacy.

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USinUK – He apparently didn’t know enough to be relevant in today’s economics surveys. I’ve never heard of him. I did look him up and the first thing I saw kinda discredited him in my eyes – social philosopher. But that is just me, not agreeing with people that think that social philosophy is a legitimate profession or degree.

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“The people over there don’t complain about taxes.”

Get over there much??

That’s hogwash………why do you think there are so many ex-pats working over here??

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Hey! What’s up with the degree stuff. Last time I brought up degrees, some of the discompassionate conservatives were swarming like a perturbed nest of yellow jackets, with their annoying little stingers. It must be in fashion now. Unless you do stuff related to the climate. Then, you’re still nothing more than a liar with a political agenda.

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What in the hell does a high school diploma prove other than you showed up every day to get a piece of paper?”

See how stupid that sounds?

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http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/magnitude-7-4-earthquake-901915.html

“Magnitude 7.4 earthquake hits off Japan; tsunami alert issued for ravaged northeastern coast”

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Libertarian

Okay, you live ITP…YOU I will listen to. So do I (have lived OTP…w-a-a-y OTP…Coosa!). Also, I agree with much of what you say, but Occupied Atlanta is no exception there…it goes with life in any big metro area…when we retire, we’ll probably leave Atlanta, too…not so much from the problems of “Atlanta” as from wanting to get away from the big city and back to the peace and quiet of a tin-roofed tar-paper shotgun on the bayou–if not a mountainside in Costa Rica…haven’t decided yet!

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What the heck – Here’s the rest of the article for those who may not find it at the Center for American Progress: (Continuing from my 10:56 a.m. post)

“Governor Rendell is also making Pennsylvania a leader in pursuing energy independence – creating jobs in the emerging alternative energy economy while developing effective strategies to reduce dependence on foreign oil and save families money.

Governor Rendell championed a dramatic increase in the number of older Pennsylvanians who receive affordable prescription drugs through Pennsylvania’s PACE and PACENET programs. He also saved older adults thousands of dollars a year that they would have been forced to pay under the federal Medicare Part D prescription drug plan.

In addition, Governor Rendell won passage of the landmark Growing Greener 2 environmental investment package. The $625 million initiative is cleaning up rivers and streams, improving parks, returning abandoned industrial sites to productive use, protecting open space and preserving farmland.

Governor Rendell has accomplished all of this while being a careful steward of the commonwealth’s finances. When he became Governor, the commonwealth faced a projected budget deficit of $2.4 billion. As one of his first acts, Governor Rendell cut government spending to close that deficit and implemented programs and policies to apply business principles of productivity and cost-savings to the operation of state government.

From 1992 through 1999, Governor Rendell served as the 121st Mayor of the City of Philadelphia. Among his many accomplishments as Mayor, Rendell eliminated a $250 million deficit; balanced the city’s budget and generated five consecutive budget surpluses; reduced business and wage taxes for four consecutive years; implemented new revenue-generating initiatives, and dramatically improved services to the City’s neighborhoods. The New York Times called the Philadelphia renaissance under Rendell “the most stunning turnaround in recent urban history.” Before serving as Mayor, Rendell was elected district attorney of the City of Philadelphia for two terms from 1978 through 1985.

The Governor, who served as general chair of the Democratic National Committee during the 2000 Presidential election, has always been active in the community through a variety of memberships on boards, and also teaches government and politics courses at the University of Pennsylvania. An Army veteran, the Governor is a graduate of the University of Pennsylvania (B.A. 1965) and Villanova Law School (J.D. 1968). He was born on January 5, 1944.

The Governor and his wife, First Lady Marjorie O. Rendell, a judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, have a son, Jesse. They celebrated their 37th wedding anniversary on July 10, 2008.”

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Adam – I do keep active in politics, and right now, as far as I can see, my politicians are doing their best to do exactly what I want. Let me keep more of my money. And I earned it, why shouldn’t I keep it? You didn’t earn a right to it simply by being born.

jm – I’ve already been to Tech, I don’t think they want me to come back. Possibly why my degree is useless.

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md: There are many US citizens working overseas as well. There is no correlation

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Rational – you’re right.

he’s just the father of economics – oh, and CAPITALISM

but, what could he say that would be of interest to YOU.

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It seems to make perfect sense that if you have above normal unemployment you’re going to have lower than normal per capita payments to government. More jobs solve both problems.

/Well Augusta isn’t going to come to me so I better head that way……later

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Adam – if everyone took care of their own we would all be in pretty good shape.

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“Yes, the lefties are remarkably discreet about their educational accompishments.”

Personally, I don’t judge peoples opinions by their education and I refuse to give others the opportunity to judge me by mine. (or by where I got it)

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maybe small fry. but interesting….

———-

Last week’s winning YouCut item, championed by Rep. Allen West, reduces the printing budget for the Department of Defense by ten percent. As promised, this week we brought this proposal to the House floor for a vote, where I am pleased to report that it passed overwhelmingly.

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Rational: Not everyone has “their own” to take care of, and not everyone can be taken care of because they have no one who calls them “their own.” And there are more of these people out there than you guys seem to realize.

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USinUK – I was just saying I know nothing about him after taking a few economics courses. If he is the “father of capitalism” then I’ll probably end up reading about him soon. I’ve never denied the fact that I’m young (26), and don’t know everything – yet.

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“What in the hell does a high school diploma prove other than you showed up every day to get a piece of paper?”

It proves you can now have entree to the university to do it all over again…

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” I’ve never denied the fact that I’m young (26), ”

Okay, this is making more sense now.

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jm 11:01

Let’s stay local. Bring back Gov. Carl Sanders or maybe Sam Nunn? Agreed?

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md: There are more people who choose to participate and still need help than the ones who choose not to.

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“md: There are many US citizens working overseas as well. There is no correlation”

BS………many that I’ve talked to state the only reason they are here is to avoid the suffocation of taxes back “home”. You are spouting nonsense.

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El Jefe: Times change and that’s why there was an amendment process that allowed that. That’s why it’s a living document.

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ME 11:06 – Ole sammy’s had enough I’d say. I think I’d try to pick of a CEO or major executive.

Perhaps a HD, GE Energy, or KO executive. They sure as hell understand the importance of education.

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md: many that I’ve talked to state the only reason they are here is to avoid the suffocation of taxes back “home”.

THAT is spouting nonsense. You’re basing everything on a narrow view of a subsection of a subsection of society. Try actual statistics. I’ve talked to plenty of people who say they left HERE because they wanted to pay less for education and get a better job in places that are hiring. There is no correlation statistically, only in your little world.

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Jay for Gov. He always has it figured out ! HA HA !!!

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Bosch: Exactly. If I want help from my family I have to fight harder than I have to fight for a raise at a job. Unless it’s “hey are you guys cooking dinner tonight?”

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Rational: “How is it selfish and childish to want to keep more of the money I earned? Why is it only the government that is able to decide how much I need to survive and how much they should be allowed to take from me?”

Because the notion that you “earn” that money in a vacuum, i.e. without a complex web of institutions and interrelations – is an illusion. And it’s not the ‘government’ per se that decides what you can keep or not, but again, a complex set of social responsibilities that underlie civilization. Look at it this way: the modern system of taxation is one of the prices we pay for not having to revert back to a quasi-tribal system of favoritism, bartering, blood money, etc.

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jm @ 11:08

“They sure as hell understand the importance of education.”

I’m with you on that!

“

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“The influx of immigrants didn’t cause an increase in low-wage, low-skill jobs. That’s not how such things work. An increase in low-wage, low-skill jobs caused an increase in illegal immigration”

Yep. That, too.

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Okay, maybe there’s another reason. Problem is, when one tries so hard to steer the conversation to a game of “Mine’s Bigger” there’s always someone out there who can trump you –

http://tinyurl.com/3c43ban

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LWW – the idea that I “EARN” my money is not an illusion or a thought in a vacuum. Everything I have, I worked hard for and I have EARNED every penny of what is in my bank account (well, except the pennies my wife EARNED).

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The influx of immigrants didn’t cause an increase in low-wage, low-skill jobs.

It did in the new home building biz.

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What in the hell does a high school diploma prove other than you showed up every day to get a piece of paper?”

See how stupid that sounds?

Doesn’t sound stupid. High school dropouts have become of the world leaders in business. It’s only a piece of paper. People are only limited by the limitations they place upon themselves with few exceptions.

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An increase in low-wage, low-skill jobs caused an increase in illegal immigration.

So maybe the low tax rate is drawing companies with low wage jobs instead of companies with high wage jobs?

Yay, tax cuts! Aren’t they mahvelous?

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I am starving…………….

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I am a DEM – socially liberal, fiscally moderate. I have a no idea what a colege degree has anyhting to do with this. BTW – I went to UF and got a BS in advertising in 4 years and about 10 years later an MBA from GA State. But there are a ton of people I know who never went to college that are a lot smarter than me. I like having my money back like everyone else. The real issue at large is what services do citizens believe the government should fund? How much is enough for schools, police, roads, etc? I don’t know what those answers are. The sad thing is our leaders don’t seem to know either.

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Kam, I would have to disagree. The housing boom created the jobs and thus the influx. But likely it did undercut wages paid to skilled trades.

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“Because the notion that you “earn” that money in a vacuum, i.e. without a complex web of institutions and interrelations – is an illusion.”

This is a big pile of liberal crap.

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” there are these things called private charities.”

Yeah, charities are great except for two things — they only give to those who adhere to their thinking or agenda, and two, there isn’t enough money or “charity” distributed to help all who need it — which was why FDR created the social programs he did which still exist today.

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Libertarian – it is in fact a big pile of crap. And it smells horrible. Jay, can we get a pooper-scooper in here?

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Gm calling other people idiots. HAHA.

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AmVet

“The tiny few people here who constantly write on this blog aabout their academic prowess and vast credentials, while discounting.denigrating others, remind me of the athletes who constantly parade around with the “Look at how great I am!” persona.”

and again, “a rabbi who must praise himself has a congregation of one.”

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there are these things called private charities. The government has no place in them. And I still think unions are bad, outdated, and ridiculous.

“Whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine!” is what I hear when I see stuff like this. You are right that many on the right and the left do as you say, but unions have a good place and can be subject to corruption if allowed, much like corporations and government can be. Does that mean we should get rid of all 3? no.

As for private charities, it is nonsense to believe they have the capacity to help as much as the government can. It is nonsense to therefore place the responsibility of helping the less fortunate and protecting the citizenry on private charities.

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Jay, you’ll take an interest in this

For-Profit Colleges Face State Crackdowns as U.S. Rules Delayed
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aOqSQPOzx818&pos=10

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“High school dropouts have become of the world leaders in business.”

Like who?

“The tiny few people here who constantly write on this blog aabout their academic prowess and vast credentials, while discounting.denigrating others, remind me of the athletes who constantly parade around with the “Look at how great I am!” persona.’

What’s insanely naive and ridiculous about that statement is the fact that no one is boasting about their degree. If Vet had taken the time to actually read, he’d know that the reason this whole flap about college degrees came up was because left wingers go around telling others to “educate themselves.”

Oh, and speaking of denigrating others, what are all those names you call me and others, Vet?

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“How about instead of saying DEMOCRATS WANT TO RAISE TAXES every time they suggest you don’t continue to cut taxes, that you just recognize that maybe they are saying to LEAVE TAXES ALONE. No raise, no lower, just leave it be.”

Let us know when the dems actually say something like that………………

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Bosch – if you have a problem with how charities are ran, start your own. I’m not saying things weren’t bad during the Great Depression, but those programs that helped people survive then, should never have been made permanent. If the government didn’t forcibly take the money from people, private charities would see an increase. Probably from conservative donors, because we might be portrayed as heartless, money grubbing, industrialist and capitalist pigs, but we do typically know how to make money, and we’re not typically heartless, just not bleeding hearts like liberals.

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“” I just think people should take care of themselves, and not expect others to do it for them.”

I think if you did a survey, most would say that — problem is, theory and reality don’t actually work out sometimes.”

and I think it’s a lot like how people view lawyers – they’re parasitic scum suckers … until you need one.

yeah, “take care of your own” works, until disaster strikes

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WOW, the reason the whole degree issue comes up is because the only reason to pose the question is to somehow discredit the person you are asking by saying something bad about their level of education or where they got their education. That is utterly stupid to do.

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But likely it did undercut wages paid to skilled trades.

Exactly my point.

Before St. Ronnie of the Ray-Gun’s 1986 amnesty we subs were getting a fairly good compensation for our work.

Then the builders started price-fixing labor.

I would go to a job-site, tell the builder what my price was, only to be told, “I only have $x slotted for that job. If you don’t want it, I can find cheaper labor elsewhere.”

Our jobs were then added as an increase to low paying jobs.

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md: Let us know when the dems actually say something like that

<—- points to Jay's article.

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“the modern system of taxation is one of the prices we pay for not having to revert back to a quasi-tribal system of favoritism, bartering, blood money, etc”

And even if we DID go back, there would STILL be someone ELSE choosing what you get to keep and what you don’t.

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Rational,

You apparently do not understand how charities are actually ran. If I didn start my own, it would, again, be on my own personal terms who I wish to help — it can not possibly cover everyone who needs it.

” If the government didn’t forcibly take the money from people,”

OMG, do you understand that taxation is something that’s been around, since say, we stopped roaming the hills in nomadic tribes and settle down to form communities? Why, now, all of a sudden, is taxation a bad thing?

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“as are: weekends, paid holidays, OSHA, minimum wage, a 40-hour work week, safe working conditions (tell that to the 127 ladies who dies in the Triangle fire in NYC), child labor laws,”

This is such a bogus argument……….ok, these were problems in the PAST…….since changed and covered by law……..now, why are the unions needed in the PRESENT?

Especially public unions………please explain why folks need protecting from the very folks that write the laws…………..

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Rational: Adam – so am I more fortunate that I went to college and now have a decent job? Or did I work for that? If I worked for that, people that have less, aren’t less fortunate.

You are more fortunate than the person who did the same work, and all other things equal, did not get the decent job. Or who perhaps got injured and is now homeless and being ridiculed for not pulling himself up by his bootstraps. Or any number of scenarios that involve people not being able to make it through some form of dumb luck, not because of any lack of “right choices.”

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Bosch – then I won’t tell you about the World’s Best Falafel I had at lunch

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USinUK,

“right. because no one would take safety shortcuts or undermine working conditions NOW …”

Of course not because capitalism is perfect and nothing ever goes wrong!!!

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“and I think it’s a lot like how people view lawyers – they’re parasitic scum suckers … until you need one.”

No…their are parasitic regardless…….the whole system is designed to be parasitic……

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“the reason the whole degree issue comes up is because the only reason to pose the question is to somehow discredit the person you are asking by saying something bad about their level of education or where they got their education. That is utterly stupid to do.”

Then again, I never said anything bad about their education level, Adam. I was simply pointing out how hypocritical it is for left wingers to tell others to “educate themselves” when they themselves never set foot in a college classroom.

Make sense, Adam?

It’s like someone saying “WE NEED TO RAISE TAXES NOW” but said person doesn’t want THEIR taxes raised.

It’s like when BONO of U2 tells others that they need to give to poor nations, yet he gets caught tax evading.

It’s like Al Gore telling others to buy a hybrid yet he has a fleet of SUV’s.

See where I’m going, Adam?

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Again Jay cherrypicks data. He takes one state Georgia and makes a cause and effect error. The main evidence of job creation over a sustain period of time is population growth. Georgia has the 7th highest population growth over the last 10 years.

The coorelation of taxes to population growth for the last ten years and the tax rate per state in 2008 was -.09. This data dispel both Jay’s theory that low taxes hurts a states economy and the conservative opinion that low taxes helps the economy.

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Kam, no disagreement that home builders generally profit from the use of unlawful immigrants and have used their presence to bid down the wages of others in a continuing downward spiral. You’ll note that the homebuilders (many republican) are very cautious about their stand on pending bills for everify and others employer actions. And the truly skilled labor has hurt the Georgia consumer in the housing arena.

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“hypocritical it is for left wingers to tell others to “educate themselves” when they themselves never set foot in a college classroom.”

And of course, that’s assuming that when one tells another to “educate themselves” they MUST go and enter college — I mean, just simply READING more about a subject doesn’t count as “education.”

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WOW, sure it makes sense. You won’t mind then if I say “go educate yourselves!” Since I myself have a degree then?

How about this, liberals. Raise your hand if you have never stepped foot in a college classroom.

(crickets).

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Yeah, charities are great except for two things — they only give to those who adhere to their thinking or agenda

Say WHA-A-A-AT????

People in need, regardless of race, creed or national origin fall under an agenda????

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“right. because no one would take safety shortcuts or undermine working conditions NOW …”

Which are now covered by law………which only takes an individual to complain……..

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I wonder what everyone’s “read to write” ratio on here is…. hopefully its at least over 1

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“Because the notion that you “earn” that money in a vacuum, i.e. without a complex web of institutions and interrelations – is an illusion.”

“This is a big pile of liberal crap.”

And that’s one of the most asinine responses to a valid point I’ve seen in a long time. I’d like to see an investment prospectus on those companies who profit from funding and building roads, airports, and inspecting food and drugs. There are MANY necessary and worthwhile endeavors that would NOT return profit to a private enterprise. Those deemed favorable to improving the lives of citizens should be undertaken by government…which is funded by taxes.

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which only takes an individual to complain……..

And get fired for complaining. And nothing changes. And any lawsuits filed get dismissed due to lack of evidence. It happens more often than you think….

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Do you think if unions went away now all those things would go away? Unions were necessary at one time in our history. They are no longer necessary…

Oh, but of course all the companes are compassionate now and would never do anything that doesn’t favor their workers. Just ignore all those companies shifting jobs to Indonesia where they can get people to work for $2 a week for 70 hours a week.

Companies aren’t mindless money making machines, they are sooooo compassionate!

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State Government as with the Federal Government has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Tax tax tax will not improve the economy nor tax collection…cut the spending and see waht happens

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April 10. 1933

Need jobs? We got ‘em…

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/civilian-conservation-corps-created

I think it’s about time to do this again…just sayin’

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I’m sure no US company with plants and factories overseas employes children in those jobs! Never

Ohhh, feel the compassion!

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Adam-

Why do you think poor people are poor? Serious question.

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WOW

Business leaders and entrepreneurs
Richard Branson
James H. Clark
Jack Kent Cooke
Simon Cowell
Charles E. Culpepper
George Eastman
Henry Ford
Soichiro Honda
Ray Kroc
Marcus Loew
David H. Murdock
John D. Rockefeller
Vidal Sassoon
Alan Sugar
Dave Thomas

Scientists and inventors
James Buchanan Eads
Albert Einstein
Anton van Leeuwenhoek
Garrett A. Morgan
Wright brothers

Too bad most of those people are actors. Yes, I see three high school drop outs who started successful businesses.

Intellectual dishonesty doesn’t look good on people, but you somehow seem to pull it off with flair. Three people? Gotta be an Auburn grad……

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Libertarian: Why do you think poor people are poor?

Anyone who can answer that for all of the poor has a wrong answer. It depends. And many of them are NOT there by choice. That one little fact needs to sink in for some of you people.

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Of the ten fastest growing states in the last 10 years. 8 were in the bottom 25 on taxes per capita.

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all it takes is one Republican proposing legislation that would get rid of OSHA to get through and they would totally wipe out a protection for workers.

Why? Cause it would save companies massive amounts of cash. That’s the only reason they would need and the working class and middle class Republican voters who watch Faux News, etc, would be like “yeah, cool!, maybe that will get me a better job!”

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WOODSTOCK MIKE: I see that your intentions are good but these types of circumstances are few and far between.

Actually, they are more likely than you believe.

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Finn

You are quite the cynic. I know that I’ve been providing my employees with 100% paid health insurance since I’ve been in business…long before Obamacare and all of that mess. So, yes, I do KNOW from personal experience that some companies are, in fact, compassionate.

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Adam – of course they’re not poor by choice, who would choose to be poor?

But what is your definition of poor, and how much of my money should the government take to support them? I want numbers.

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companies without unions make safety decisions all the time

Yep, like TransOcean, who had a party on the Deepwater Horizon about how safe it was right before it blew up, and recently gave their employees bonuses for an exemplary safety record in 2010. I just LOVE safety decisions like those.

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You’ll note that the homebuilders (many republican) are very cautious about their stand on pending bills for everify and others employer actions.

I don’t see that everify affects the builder that much. The only employees that he pays are a superintendent and maybe a clean-up guy and they are always U.S. citizens.

That’s why I contend that if immigration reform is as big a priority as may on the right claim it is, hold the landowner responsible for what transpires on his property. Zero tolerance, mandatory minimums sentencing in prisons, not low security country clubs.

That goes for major fast-food chains as well.

When these titans of industries start doing the perp walk to the Atlanta Federal Pen, we may start to see some change in hiring practices.

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Off topic posted for humor:

I know what the real problem is, the human race is growing dumber all the time (reading headlines I just came across this)

Soldiers mistakenly kill themselves in Pakistan

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Rational,

“and how much of my money should the government take to support them?”

It’s not YOUR money, it’s taxes that support the poor — unfortunately we dont’ get to make the decisions of what our taxes go towards. If so, I wouldn’t have wanted any of my money to go towards the Iraq War, but oh well.

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“Whoa dude. Did I just break through the wall of md’s “personal choices determine everything”?”

Read slowly….”we choose everything we do”………………………never said choices determine everything.

Determine more than you wish to acknowledge though…………..

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Rational: That’s not what you asked me the first time. I’m perfectly capable of following a line of questioning if you just aly it all out and tell me what point you’re trying to get at.

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Kat – that very well could be the problem.

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md…you are absolutely right, companies do make safety decisions all the time… in oil, nuclear, manufacturing of peanut butter, mining and airlines…we’ve never seen “company decisions” that have impacted safety because of profits. No one has ever died because a company would never ignore safety requirements on an oil platform or in a mine.

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Normal

Forgot about him, even after paying tribute to his legacy last weekend. Major tribute as my wallet is still sore.

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Adam – I assumed you had answered the questions I asked before, now I’m asking another. To me, they’re related and stemming from your responses. I’m not trying to jump around, I’m just trying to understand your reasoning.

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josef: And sometimes those that start with a leg up STILL don’t get what they want.

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“all it takes is one Republican proposing legislation that would get rid of OSHA to get through and they would totally wipe out a protection for workers.”

Silly game……….has one proposed this hypothetical?

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“…does a human being EVER deserve to be homeless?”

I’ll bite(apology for butting in)…yes! Just as some deserve to live in mansions.

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Rational: My reasoning is pretty simple on this. People are not poor by choice. Poor is when you are unable to provide yourself and/or your family with food, shelter/utilities, and anything that is not provided in your area otherwise for you to be able to work such as transportation, health care, education.

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In a perfect world Adam, no one would be homeless. While I feel compassion for them I also believe most of them ended up that way through bad choices. I also do not think the parasites of society should be able to feed off of the productivity of others.

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Rational,
You wouldn’t have “your money” if you didn’t live in the US, under a system that allows your employer to be in business.

What % of “you money” is needed to make sure that system continues to operate?
20% doesn’t seem to be enough, does it?.
0% taxes on hedge funds managers doesn’t seem to be enough, does it?

All you are doing is plowing money back into the system that allows you and other spiteful, stingy Republicans to continue making the moolah.

Now, help pay for it!

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Woodstock

Holds ME back? Sorry, Son, but I’m doing quite well, thank you. Right skin color, right family and community connections, right religious background (for this matter anyway, eh AmVet ) and, odd as it might sound to some, right place of birth…and, yes, luck of the draw…now I’ve worked hard all my life–see I can say it, too–and added to all that, but I’d be a fool to try and claim that no small part of it is not luck of the draw…

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If we trimmed 6 trillion from the buget and nobody read the papers or watched the news, nobody would notice a thing.
This is how wasteful governement spending is.

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normal

ooohhh…I hadn’t thought about that!

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Libertarian: So how do you determine who is a parasite and who isn’t? Or would you rather just paint anyone below the poverty line with the “parasite” brush?

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“md…you are absolutely right, companies do make safety decisions all the time… in oil, nuclear, manufacturing of peanut butter, mining and airlines…we’ve never seen “company decisions” that have impacted safety because of profits. No one has ever died because a company would never ignore safety requirements on an oil platform or in a mine.”

Another bad argument………accidents happen in both union and non-union companies……

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md: Just because the gov’t oversight in place didn’t do it’s job has no bearing on the need for a union

There is not and has not been any REAL government oversight in the oil industry for YEARS. Permits get issued no matter the safety concerns, and the Coast Guard, which is supposed to oversee this stuff or used to be able to, have their hands tied as they are not allowed to board and inspect. Instead, these companies are supposed to “self regulate.” That’s the reality. That’s what’s going on. It’s been reported too.

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@Josef Nix

Sounds like you made it on your own, not much luck involved. If you are talking about being born in America opposed to some poverty stricken country I am with you. But, that is not what the conversation is about. From what I have been witness to in my life by far the majority of people doing well is not because of luck and the people doing badly is not because of luck. Again, I am talking about being able to provide for yourself, not living some luxurious lifestyle…

Its not that hard to simply get by and provide for yourself…

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I am tired of helping pull the wagon; maybe I should just jump on board the wagon and expect to be pulled by productive members of society. It would be a lot less stressful…

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So rational doesn’t live in America cause it’s the greatest country on earth, Rational lives here cause they can make “my money” here.

Screw the rest of the populace, it’s not a WE thing, it’s a ME thing! You people get that?

I’m sure if Rational could make more money in Chile or wherever and not have to pay taxes to live the he/she would move in a heartbeat.

He/she isn’t gonna help pay for the rest of us to live in a decent society. Where people actually care about the poor and homeless, the handicapped, and the mentally retarded/insane, and anyone else who can’t help him/herself.

It’s Rational’s money! Get that America? Get yer hands off “Rational’s Money”!

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md: I’m saving your comments for when someone actually does propose elimination or reduction of OSHA. Just you wait.

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Jay

April 7th, 2011
11:31 am
Yes Moderate, we had a lot of population growth in the past 10 years.

Yet we have the same number of jobs today as we did in 2000. Do the math.
++++
The country as a whole did not gain jobs. The state of Georgia did not. Check the census data in 2000 the jobs in Georgia was 4,129,666, In 2009 it was 4,782,597. That is over 15% gain nine years.

If you want to prove a point I would suggest you find the correlation between the growth in jobs and the tax rates between ALL 50 states.

You should be doing the MATH because you are the one trying to prove a point. I am a moderate who can vote either way and have. For example I did not vote for Deal for governor.

You can take two approaches 1) You patronize the people who already believe what you believe or 2) try to convince those who are open minded that your point is valid.

The first approach does not convince people. The statement “Do the math” is highly condescending and probably will convince no one and not only that was easily defeated because you assume that since the entire United States did not gain jobs then that must apply to each state.

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and I think it’s a lot like how people view lawyers – they’re parasitic scum suckers … until you need one.

I’ve always viewed them as such even when I needed one…which was once. A subcontractor’s materials failed. When we paid an attorney ($800.00) to seek restitution, he came back with “I can’t…the guy filed bankruptcy…I can put you at the bottom of a lienholder’s (?) list.” So we’re out $8,000.00 paid to the subcontractor and $800.00 to the lawyer. Another $8,900.00 to repair his shoddy work. AND, the fourth lienholder on the list was our local hospital. Am I paying for the guy’s hospital bills too? It would appear so.

I “LUV” those commercials where the law firms offer to seek damages incurred by FDA approved drugs. Is it any wonder so many of our reps are lawyers? Their buddies stand to benefit from government screw-ups.

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AmVet: They don’t just WANT the hands to be off the oil industry, they GOT it. YEARS ago. Which is EXACTLY why that rig blew up.

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btw stop talking about unions with regard to the Deepwater Horizon. I am not making a union point here but an outside oversight point.

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@Left Wing Management

You are mislead about Republicans. It’s not about giving money back to society. In fact, as you are aware, the top earners in the country pay for virtually everything. It is about how the govt manages the money it is given. If you don’t recognize that the govt mismanages and simply wastes a large portion of the money it is given that is the difference between you and I. Republicans do not say there should be no taxes. They say, if we are going to give you money we want it to be spent in a responsible way…

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“I am tired of helping pull the wagon; maybe I should just jump on board the wagon and expect to be pulled by productive members of society. It would be a lot less stressful…”

A symptom of socialism………it promotes laziness……….

It is and always will be much easier to vote for others to do the heavy lifting…………

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Adam – who said I had health insurance? I don’t. My job doesn’t provide it, but I didn’t see that as a basis for whether I thought this job would be a good fit for me or not. So, by your definition, I would be poor, because I can’t afford health care/insurance.

Finn – glad you finally understand. If there was somewhere that didn’t want to tax my income, and let me decide when and how I spent the money I earned then I would move there now, assuming I could get my wife to come with.

LWW – I understand what you’re saying, I just want to know exactly how much of my money you think the government should be taking from me. Because it is my money. I don’t care how much you try to convince me otherwise, you didn’t work for what I get paid, I did.

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@USinUK

So from your comments above you agree that America has no choice but to slash spending?? Or else we will end up like Greece, correct??

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Adam, true.

Another of the innumerable failures of thirty years of faux conservatism.

I make no excuses for the bungling, inept, hyper-corrupted multi-layered bureaucracy in government.

It’s failings are legendary.

I make even less excuses for the even more insidious, bungling, inept, hyper-corrupted multi-layered bureaucracy in the free market that sucks of the governmental bureaucracy.

Unlike almost all misnamed conservatives I have spoken with, I believe ina ruly free market.

Free of contrived protections and unaccountability.

Free of handouts, giveaways, subsides and tax “loopholes”.

Free of corporate parasites who use we the people’s assets and don’t even pay rent or royalties for them.

Free to truly sink or swim.

Free to fail.

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Rational: If you can’t afford health insurance then I’m sorry. That one thing alone however does not make you poor. It’s a combination of all the things I mentioned. If you are unable to provide food and shelter, that is obviously poor. If you can’t provide transportation to your job or to school. that is poor. If you are unable to get an education because you can’t pay for whatever you need to pay for in the pre-secondary and secondary public education system, then that is poor. If you can’t get to health care when you need it, and you can’t pay for it in any way, shape, or form after you’ve been helped, then that is poor.

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Finn – glad you finally understand. If there was somewhere that didn’t want to tax my income, and let me decide when and how I spent the money I earned then I would move there now, assuming I could get my wife to come with.

Until that time, Rational will continue being a leech on America. Enjoying our personal property protections, laws, decent roads, low crime rates, etc.

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Georgia is still growing at a fast rate. While nothing to brag about, an unemployment rate of 10.2% in a fast growing state still means there is more job opportunity than in a slow growing state with an enemplyoment rate of 8.8%. It means that people who have lost their jobs in other states are still moving to Georgia because it has a better job environment. But as such, it also helps to drive up the unemployment rate in GA relative to the places they’re leaving.

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Cry me a river. Hey Jay- come back when 100% of working Georgians start paying their fair share of income tax.

Until then – go stuff it.

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Jay

April 7th, 2011
11:31 am
Yes Moderate, we had a lot of population growth in the past 10 years.

Yet we have the same number of jobs today as we did in 2000. Do the math.
++++++
According to the Bureau of labor statistics the number of jobs increased 5% from 2000 to currently. Even for 2011 Georgia is still on the plus side even if barely.

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@Josef Nix

I agree there are some tragic examples out there. Unfortunately, when in a society of 300+ million people there are going to be sad stories. The fact of the matter is, no matter what system is in place, there will be homeless people and sad stories, the govt being Dem or Rep isn’t going to change that…

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Even at the peak of employment, in 2008, we had added a mere 255,000 jobs over the 2000 level

Thanks W! How those tax cuts working out for everyone inthe middle/working classes? Soooooo many jobs to choose from!

Suckers!

Jay, can you also show what the nation added in jobs during those slack 8 years?

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md…I was being sarcastic as you know but it does get frustrating reading these posters that feel we are fortunate that the federal and state government lets us keep any of our own hard earned money; and what we get to keep, we should be most thankful…..

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AmVet – the gig is up. The sleeping giant is finally being jostled awake.

I’ll never forget the warning from a German native during a high school assembly when I lived overseas. It was the 70’s and she commended us when most of us raised our hands when asked if we knew who Hitler was and what he’d done. At the time, most German children our age were not aware of his atrocities. She warned us then that what happened to German society could happen in any society. She then shouted “don’t be rocked to sleep by your government!” That was nearly 40 years ago and I remember those words like it was yesterday.

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I find it interesting that the solution to creating jobs is always cast in terms of lower taxes on business, a strong “right to work” (for less wages, benefits and security) and less regulation (greater risk to employees, the environment and the state at large).

I have yet to see anything more than anecdotal evidence and the proverbial “I run a business and I agree” statements that the above are true in part or in whole.

It would seem to me that businesses take decisions on where to locate a headquarters, a new plant, a distribution center, etc. based on a variety of factors that likely include the above. But I would suspect they also take into consideration such things as access to air and sea lanes (when applicable), cost of living for employees, cost of doing business (including lease or build costs), access to an educated workfore, traffic and related considerations as well as the overall quality of the environment for attracting and retaining employees.

A rush to the bottom in terms of corporate taxes and/or gutting reasonable regulation does not automatically equate to job creation.

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md – You think if I stole that last line and used it as a campaign slogan I could get elected?

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Tax deadline is coming up! Liberals who want higher taxes, don’t forget to send back your tax returns!!! Take the initiative!!! Be leaders! Send back those returns if you get one! If not, then please be sure to write a bigger check then what is required!!!

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Woodstock

On that point of it not mattering were it Democrats or Republicans in power, we are agreed. And when it comes to the poor and homeless, etc., we Americans often just don’t know how lucky we are…

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peadawg

You are smarter than that….only collectively will it make a difference and hopefully all tax cuts come to an end 2012…

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FEAR, the politicians worst nightmare – an empowered, organized citizenry.

As long as we allow big business to overwhelmingly fund our elections, as long as we allow the ten thousand lobbyists with their hundreds of millions of dollars on K Street to buy the favor of our supposed leaders, as long as we allow a complicit and corporate owned media to keep us intentionally uniformed about the massive corporate crime wave that wracks and ruins this nation and as long as we remain complacent and uninvolved about the sell-out and sell-off of our blood soaked sovereignty to the highest bidder, things will not get better for the middle class American…

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Comrad Bookman, your banter is typical of the socialists that wrote our the federal tax code which punishes hard work and achievement. This is the United States of America, not Amerika. People working their butts off are tired of paying the check for everything. Furthermore, you seem to think that if all these tax dollars are collected, they will actually be spent on what is needed to fix this state. If you want to fix a problem, don’t involve the government. If you don’t want to make a problem worse, don’t involve the government. Funny, when Georgia was rolling in money a few years back, these same problems existed then and still were not fixed. This proves the failure of this state’s government to do anything right, and they shouldn’t have more of our money to waste. Go sell your communist manifesto some place else.

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Georgia is 49th in per capita spending on transportation. Jay, If would venture OTP you would see that Georgia DOT has plenty to spend on transportation. We have 4 lane highways to nowhere cris-crossing the state. It appears that they have trouble finding enough ways to spend money. Why is the solution always tax more?

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When Atlanta burned the citizens all cared…nobody would care now! Don’t blame the school system for low grades..blame the dumb general population that lives in the state! Just stupid people keep having babies and raising stupid kids!

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FEAR

Interesting points. Back when I was in college I overhead two of our French professors talking about two of our German professors. “They were both nazis. It’s just that one claims to be repentent, the other doesn’t.” Frankly, I liked the non repentent one the better of the two, He cried no crocodile tears. He said that he was a product (not a victim) of his time and place and most of those judging in hindsight would have made the same decisions. He was from the military elite and joined the Nazi party to enhance his promotion potential. His eyes, he said, were opened when he was posted to the Eastern front, “by then, it was too late.” It was, he said, no excuse, merely an explanation.

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woodstock – “So from your comments above you agree that America has no choice but to slash spending?? Or else we will end up like Greece, correct??”

as I said to you the day before yesterday, Greece’s spending is but a drop in the bucket of their problems. they have a very narrow economy, primarily driven on tourism, and their tax collection system is a joke. literally.

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as I said to you the day before yesterday, Greece’s spending is but a drop in the bucket of their problems.

Better go ahead and create a macro for that.

You’ll be repeating it for weeks.

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peadawg & rational

Sorry, but your comprehension skills need some work so I’ll simplify – it’s all or nothing, all for one and one for all….

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LWW – No, the question is how much do you think it is fair that the government takes. Obviously, you seem to think they should take more, but I disagree. I don’t think the government should be in charge of anything above the national defense, and regulating trade between states and foreign countries.

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they have a very narrow economy, primarily driven on tourism

topless babes everywhere! Ohhlahlah!

oops, I meant topless beaches

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I’m getting no where with this argument. I’m going to go eat lunch and then do some yard work. Have a nice day – and remember, the sun shining outside was brought to you by your benevolent government and paid for by higher taxes.

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Inane indeed. Jay, you must be feigning shock–what do you expect from inane people? I would also add the point that there is really no downside for these folks since they end up with the biggest tax cuts. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could have a trigger provision that would cut Larry O’Neal’s income by 50% if he were wrong? I bet he would think twice then.

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How much of your money is worth maintaining the lifestyle you currrently enjoy?

28%?

If I earn $200 million a year by employing my money in the stock market, and it will take 30% of that to make sure I get to make it agian next year….

How frickin hard of a decision is that? It’s EVEN A STINGY VIEWPOINT that you conservatives aint go the nads to accept!

I want to make money next year, so I will pay the price needed to do that!

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josef – pretty chilling stuff…and not so long ago. We need to learn the lessons of history, lest it be repeated in some form or another. And for goodness sake, we need Civics taught in our schools again. The average american on the street can not name the 3 branches of government.

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For the Florida Guy…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

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I don’t think the government should be in charge of anything above the national defense, and regulating trade between states and foreign countries.

All we ask is that you pay to play here. If we want your opinion on what the government should provide, we will elect you

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Keep:

O.K. and what about those attorneys who seek damages brought about by FDA approved drugs? Any opinion on them or the FDA?

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Every time I come back to visit Jay’s blog I’m reminded of how glad I am that I moved out of Georgia and the South in general. Thank you, Delta! You were there when I was ready…

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No Corporation in their right mind is going to come to this state. Look who we have representing us..Ignorant self serving Republicans! Why are we in debt, Republicans! They always spend but never pay for anything, they put everything on the Charge card just like GWB did. Then blame all the debt on the Democrats. GWB created ZERO NET JOBS in the 8 long, long years he was in office. He reduced Taxes, he created NO JOBS! Can’t we learn from his mistakes, nope, these selfish Georgia republicans politicians, hear no evil, see no evil, feel no pain themselves but want 95% of the population to suffer. We all have to pay our fair share, and yes that includes corporations. They use everything everyone else does so absolutely should pay their fair share, it is the American way.
Republicans, a vote for them could be life ending for our country’s future.

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peadawg

Damn, please pardon me for thinking you had some smarts, won’t happen again…

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@@- yeah I do have some opinions about drug manufacturers who downplay issues to make profits or sell products that injure people after having knowledge or notice of possible injuries but I am headed out the door for a meeting so I’ll have to debate that with you another time. I would suggest however that you start with learning what the elements of proof are in a drug injury case.

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md – “Still fundamentals……….basic accounting………don’t spend more than one has……regardless of scale.”

oh, I must have missed the memo that the drachma was an international reserve currency and Greece was the leading economy in the world. of course, now they’re on the Euro (too bad the EC didn’t bother to do any due-diligence before they let Greece into the club)

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Of course Republicans will direct tax cuts to “those Georgians who are already doing well”. They do this in all the other states, too. And, with consistent and effective propaganda, they keep the votes coming from their simple supporters. Hey, is this a great country or what!!!!!

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didn’t you get the memo? it’s all poor people’s fault.

Typical statement from you know who!!

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Amvet,

All of these nutzoid conservatives are old white people who are about to get screwed by the GOP. And yet they cheer them on. Unbelievable.

Thank goodness I won’t have to depend on SS or Medicare when I retire.

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didn’t you get the memo? it’s all poor people’s fault.

And unions.

And public sector employees ’specially the teachers.

And communism.

And socialism.

And Islam, notably Sharia Law (Jude’s big sister.)

And The Fairness Doctrine.

And Fannie.

And Freddie.

And the CRA.

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