Guess who the losers in ‘tax reform’ will be?
Republicans in the state Legislature are trying — so far without much success — to “reform” our state tax code, supposedly to make the state more attractive to business.
If that thought frightens you … well, it should.
The Special Council on Tax Reform and Fairness for Georgians, the commission created by the Legislature last year to study the matter, made it quite clear that changes in the state tax code would not bring jobs. But it nonetheless proposed a package of changes it believed would help modernize the state’s tax structure.
Legislative leaders, in their infinite wisdom, basically tossed the council’s work aside and decided to use its recommendations as a menu from which to pick reforms it preferred. The package now on the table would eliminate state income tax deductions while lowering the income tax rate from 6 percent to 4.5 percent, in effect moving Georgia toward a so-called flat tax.
In addition, it would start levying a sales tax on what are called “casual” auto sales, meaning the sale of used cars between private individuals. The sales tax would also be applied for the first time to auto repairs and telecommunications, such as cell phone and satellite TV bills.
The bill was lauded as revenue neutral, and it probably is. Lowering the income tax rate from 6 percent to 4.5 percent reduces state revenue. However, that loss would be offset by eliminating deductions and broadening the sales tax.
However, state Rep. Stacey Abrams, head of the House Democratic Caucus, was curious about how those changes might affect Georgians in various income brackets, and asked analysts at the Georgia State’s Fiscal Research Center to provide some numbers.
The chart below — which accounts only for the proposed changes to the state income tax, excluding sales tax changes — demonstrates what the GSU experts found. (It includes Georgia taxpayers who itemized deductions on their federal 1040s).
Data from GSU Fiscal Research Center; chart by Jay Bookman
Those making less than $20,000 pay lower taxes — they don’t tend to itemize, so eliminating deductions doesn’t affect them. Those making between $20,000 and $180,000, who do tend to itemize, would see significant tax increases.
And those who make more than $180,000 would see significant tax cuts. For those with incomes of more than $500,000, the tax cuts would average 16 percent.
Again, the chart above addresses only the impact of proposed changes in the income tax. When you add the proposed changes in the sales tax, the impact on Georgia’s middle and working classes becomes even more profound. The working and middle classes, for example, tend to buy and sell used cars from each other far more often than do Georgians with higher incomes. So they’re going to pay more taxes.
As Abrams points out, a new sales tax on auto repairs would also push your auto insurance rates higher. Approximately 40 percent of auto-repair work in the state is paid for by insurance companies, and they would have to pay the new sales tax on that work as well. Overall, Georgia insurers would pay an estimated $39 million in state sales tax on auto repairs, which they would pass along to their customers.
The tax reform package had been hammered out behind closed doors, and early this week GOP legislative leaders were poised to force its passage into law — allowing no amendments — until these numbers emerged. Now they’ve been forced to again retreat into secrecy — shutting down the Legislature in the meantime — while they figure out their next move. Their efforts have been greatly complicated by an ongoing leadership feud among Republicans in the Senate, who earlier this year stripped Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle of most of his powers but now appear to be having second thoughts.
If all that sounds like a mess, you and I and most of the citizens in Georgia literally don’t know the half of it, because most of the squabbling and backstabbing is occurring in private caucus meetings and leadership chambers. All we get to see is the blood leaking out from beneath the door.
– Jay Bookman
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430 comments Add your comment
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:11 pm
Jay, isn’t 1/2 a loaf enough for you? The very poor get huge additional tax breaks. That seems like a good thing to me.
Del
April 1st, 2011
2:11 pm
“Luckovich had a great editorial cartoon a few months back of Obama with a turkey pecking him in the head while he sat there passively, and the caption said something like “I wish he’d just fight BACK sometimes”. No truer words were ever spoken.”
Obama does allow himself to be pushed…most recent into a civil war by France, the U.K. and Arab League to lead an air attack on Qaddafi forces ostensibly to protect the Libyan rebels, while it was really about Libyan oil and then he was pushed out of it by Secretary of Defense Gates and Admiral Mike Mullins. Difficult to know what direction this president will be pushed next.
Mick
April 1st, 2011
2:11 pm
pea
Lt’s not get carried away…
Jay
April 1st, 2011
2:12 pm
Yeah, jm, it saves them an average of $9 to $20 a year, depending on whether they itemize.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:13 pm
DebbieDoRight: REPUBLICAN controlled House
————————-
Wrong, Deb. Democrat House.
Jay
April 1st, 2011
2:13 pm
Very good, Barry. I had faith in you, and you did not let me down.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:14 pm
Obama got pushed around by FRANCE? LMFAO!
AmVet
April 1st, 2011
2:14 pm
“Barry’s not dumb.”
Perhaps not, but has anyone ever seen him make a compelling argument, supported by facts, data, evidence or links?
For that matter, other than………………….hmmmmmmmm………………gimme a minute………………………er………………………., well never mind.
None of the rabid BHO/lib haters here do that.
Slogans, sound bites and bumper-stickerese – the core of modern Republispeak.
Only when 1% of Americans own 99% of the wealth will these myopic cons finally wake up.
But of course, it will way too late by then.
Let them eat cake…
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:14 pm
Retract my 2:11. Just redid some math, nevermind.
Some People are stupid
April 1st, 2011
2:14 pm
LBB-
PLease direct me to the 40 Billion in cuts they have already made.
In fact, please point me to a budget they have made.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:15 pm
Come on now, Jay, acting dumb is supposed to by my schtick…now you’re trying to hijack it?
Left wing management
April 1st, 2011
2:15 pm
Jay: Very good, Barry. I had faith in you, and you did not let me down.
As sure as the sun will rise ….
Jay
April 1st, 2011
2:16 pm
Never Barry. I would never dare challenge a master such as yourself.
Mr_B
April 1st, 2011
2:16 pm
“the fact that he could have had the Democrat House and Democrat Senate modify the tax cuts in any way he wanted. He didn’t even TRY.
Evidently , you slept through November and December of 2010.
WOW
April 1st, 2011
2:17 pm
“Perhaps not, but has anyone ever seen him make a compelling argument, supported by facts, data, evidence or links?”
Exact same thing can be said of you, Vet. Like you stated yesterday: Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, Dodge!
“None of the rabid BHO/lib haters here do that.”
HAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Slogans, sound bites and bumper-stickerese – the core of modern Republispeak.”
HOPE AND CHANGE
CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN
IMPEACH BUSH NOW
You mean like those, Vet?
Peadawg
April 1st, 2011
2:17 pm
“Peadawg, do you have multiple personalities?”
No. It’s just that Bush and Obama BOTH suck and I’m ready for a REAL leader to be in office and do what’s good for this country and not just what’s good for their careers.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:17 pm
SPAS, this year’s budget was supposed to have been written by the Democrats but they couldn’t get it done. Republicans in the House don’t get to propose a budget until next fiscal year, which begins October 1.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
April 1st, 2011
2:18 pm
Jay:
You must not be busy today.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:19 pm
Hee hee, I’ve never seen such a bunch of Democrats so seriously in denial! The cognitive dissonance caused by your Idiot Messiah demanding that President Bush’s tax cuts be extended must be quite distressing!
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:19 pm
The verbal jousting continues, with no headway on the facts…
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:20 pm
Peadawg 2:17 – Mitch Daniels. Or any of a variety of alternatives excluding Palin, Huckabee, Bachmann.
Mick
April 1st, 2011
2:21 pm
peadawg@2:17
I feel your pain…
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:22 pm
Can we get back to the topic, please?
Mick
April 1st, 2011
2:22 pm
Mitch daniels bush’s former budget director – enough said..
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
April 1st, 2011
2:22 pm
Jay:
I don’t know a whole lot about some of these financial issues but this sure sounds bad …………….
Headline: “Foreign Banks Tapped Fed’s Secret Lifeline Most at Crisis Peak”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-01/foreign-banks-tapped-fed-s-lifeline-most-as-bernanke-kept-borrowers-secret.html
WOW
April 1st, 2011
2:22 pm
Peadawg
That’s interesting because yesterday you told me to STFU. Kind of ironic that you are here ranting about Obama after the fact that you told me to STFU.
Some People are stupid
April 1st, 2011
2:22 pm
LBB-
So where have they cut 40 billion? Your post said combined with what they already cut, they would hit 100 billion with the 61 billion they want to cut.
They have 2 CR that total what, 15 Billion tops….and actually, since there was no budget last year, a CR for the remainder of the year is the budget. Since the Control the house, they are responsible for the budget as of January.
misty fyed
April 1st, 2011
2:22 pm
peadawg@2:17
Preach it.
Left wing management
April 1st, 2011
2:23 pm
Del: Obama does allow himself to be pushed…most recent into a civil war by France, the U.K. and Arab League to lead an air attack on Qaddafi forces ostensibly to protect the Libyan rebels, while it was really about Libyan oil ..
Allow me to correct you in your cynicism. What if Obama gave the go-ahead for Libya NOT for oil but out of a belief in our higher principles as a nation, which has a responsibility to act NOW or risk having the true potential of the Arab Spring completely rolled back – and then some? (In other words, showing in international affairs a sense of the urgency of the now that he so sorely lacks in many domestic battles).
Let me refer you to Juan Cole, who has dismantled the various cynicisms of the nay-sayers on the Libya effort:
Another argument is that the no-fly zone (and the no-drive zone) aimed at overthrowing Qaddafi not to protect his people from him but to open the way for US, British and French dominance of Libya’s oil wealth. This argument is bizarre. The US declined to do oil business with Libya in the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s, when it could have, because it had placed the country under boycott. It didn’t want access to that oil market, which was repeatedly proffered to Washington by Qaddafi then. After Qaddafi came back in from the cold in the late 1990s (for the European Union) and after 2003 (for the US), sanctions were lifted and Western oil companies flocked into the country. US companies were well represented, along with BP and the Italian firm ENI. BP signed an expensive exploration contract with Qaddafi and cannot possibly have wanted its validity put into doubt by a revolution. There is no advantage to the oil sector of removing Qaddafi. Indeed, a new government may be more difficult to deal with and may not honor Qaddafi’s commitments. There is no prospect of Western companies being allowed to own Libyan petroleum fields, which were nationalized long ago. Finally, it is not always in the interests of Big Oil to have more petroleum on the market, since that reduces the price and, potentially, company profits. A war on Libya to get more and better contracts so as to lower the world price of petroleum makes no sense in a world where the bids were already being freely let, and where high prices were producing record profits. I haven’t seen the war-for-oil argument made for Libya in a manner that makes any sense at all.
http://www.juancole.com/2011/03/an-open-letter-to-the-left-on-libya.html
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:24 pm
Mick 2:22 – turn the other brain cells on. Would you run the company you work for the same way as your boss does or did? Assuming you’re working….
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:24 pm
SPAS, you missed the part about the cuts being equivalent to $100 billion on a full year basis. Is your ignorance willful, or do you come by it naturally?
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
April 1st, 2011
2:24 pm
“Farrakhan blames ‘demons’ for altering Obama’s conscience”
Ah ………………………….. demons out !
mm
April 1st, 2011
2:25 pm
“What is it with left wingers and wealth envy?”
Why can’t wingnuts get it through their heads that the wealthy can afford to pay higher taxes? Probably because the losers that vote Republican are not wealthy, and they believe they will be someday because that’s what Repukes keep telling them.
Since 2000, America lost 7.5 million jobs. Doesn’t sound like tax cuts create jobs to me.
Mick
April 1st, 2011
2:27 pm
jm
Turn me on dead me – would you hire the man who worked for your boss and contributed to the bankruptcy of the company?
Dave R.
April 1st, 2011
2:28 pm
” What if Obama gave the go-ahead for Libya NOT for oil but out of a belief in our higher principles as a nation, which has a responsibility to act NOW or risk having the true potential of the Arab Spring completely rolled back – and then some?”
Higher principles as a nation? When is it OK to INITIATE war against a sovereign nation, LWM?
WOW
April 1st, 2011
2:29 pm
“Why can’t wingnuts get it through their heads that the wealthy can afford to pay higher taxes? Probably because the losers that vote Republican are not wealthy, and they believe they will be someday because that’s what Repukes keep telling them.”
Losers, repukes, wingnuts. I love left wing hypocrisy.
As far as taxes go, you should have informed Obama not to extend the Bush Tax Cuts.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:29 pm
AmVet: Keep on paying through the nose, cons; your fellow corporate “persons” aren’t…
—————–
As Jay pointed out in this very post, corporations pass taxes on to consumers. So your poutrage is pointless.
Some People are stupid
April 1st, 2011
2:29 pm
LBB-
WOW….so what you are saying is..I’ve got $1000. I’ve spent 250, leaving me with $750. If I cut $ 61 dollars, is the equivalent of me cutting $100. Even though I have already spent the first part. Remind me never to let you touch my financial records.
Budgets go forward. You have to be pretty gullible to believe that you can adjust for already spent money.
DebbieDoRight
April 1st, 2011
2:29 pm
LWM: The most exasperating thing is you can see the wheels turning in the administration’s thinking. They basically think there’s a liberalism for ‘grown ups’ and another one for the children who aren’t mature enough to appreciate the hard necessities of governing at the top level
I know!!! And it just KILLS ME, to watch them try to REASON with the unreasonable!!! (death panels) I’m more of a “Clinton-type” fighter, fight fire with fire — not reason!!
…….. the way you have to square 10 circles before breakfast when you’ve got the hardest job on the planet (see their condescending comments on the “professional Left”). What they fail to see is that THEY are the actual dupes in their stodgy old realism. What they don’t get – but their enemies almost never fail to get – is that everything is up in the air, particularly in times of crisis like ours
When that guy from SC screamed out “You Lie!” to Obama, and he stood there and TOOK IT, or rather tried to intelligently engage the man’s distortions of the truth, I was like “R U Kidding me!!!” You can’t reason with emotions! The repubs know this — they use the emotions of frightened individuals to manipulate them to voting against their own best interests!!
….. so whether one likes it or not after an earthquake one must approach problems with the simplicity of a child but with the determination of a Machiavelli.
He should be a true Chicagoan. If they bring a knife, you bring a gun, if they put one of yours in the hospital, you put one of theirs in the morgue. THAT’s the Chicago way. He’s too dang NICE to be president — he should’ve been VP; or waited a few more years before he made his run.
AmVet
April 1st, 2011
2:29 pm
“Come on now, Jay, acting dumb is supposed to by my schtick…”
Sorry, Barry, you’re gonna have to defer to the greatest of them all – RW-(the liar).
The guy has it down to perfection…
Thought Police
April 1st, 2011
2:29 pm
Ooooh! Lil Barry being accused of not being as dumb as he acts. Is Lil Barry up for the challenge. Inquiring thoughts.
Dave R.
April 1st, 2011
2:30 pm
“Why can’t wingnuts get it through their heads that the wealthy can afford to pay higher taxes?”
It is not a question of whether they CAN pay more, but rather why you think you have a right to their money, mm.
misty fyed
April 1st, 2011
2:30 pm
MM
My ability to pay higher taxes does not equate to my obligation to pay higher taxes.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:30 pm
“act NOW or risk having the true potential of the Arab Spring completely rolled back”
—————————-
“Risk”? “Potential”? Sounds like pre-emptive war to me!
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:31 pm
Mick 2:27 – it depends. And that’s the attitude you should take with Daniels. Judge him as the CEO of Indiana, not when he was working for Bush.
If you don’t like his Indiana record, so be it. But don’t judge the guy based on what happened when he worked for someone else.
WOW
April 1st, 2011
2:31 pm
“WOW….so what you are saying is..I’ve got $1000. I’ve spent 250, leaving me with $750. If I cut $ 61 dollars, is the equivalent of me cutting $100. Even though I have already spent the first part. Remind me never to let you touch my financial records. ”
I never said that, stupid.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
April 1st, 2011
2:32 pm
Baseball Players Charged Over Chicken Sacrifice
Published : Friday, 01 Apr 2011, 11:14 AM EDT
Headline: BENBROOK, Texas – “Two teenagers kicked off their Texas high school’s baseball team after apparently sacrificing chickens in a bid to boost its performance were facing animal cruelty charges Friday.
Police confirmed the players were “engaged in acts that caused the death of two baby chickens.”
This is about the stupidest thing I have seen since the University of Georgia student was arrested for killing mice.
We have LOST OUR MINDS in this country.
P.S.
But I guess it’s still o.k. to eat the chicken fetuses ……… right? I had two over easy this morning. Sure hope the police don’t show up at my door.
http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/baseball-players-charged-over-chicken-sacrifice-20110401-ncx
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:32 pm
mm is a communist.
Dave R.
April 1st, 2011
2:33 pm
“They basically think there’s a liberalism for ‘grown ups’ and another one for the children ”
As if there is a difference. I’m sorry, but the “I want what he’s got” argument is for the kiddies, not the grown-ups.
WOW
April 1st, 2011
2:33 pm
AmVet
Can you and I finally just bury the hatchet? I’m tired of the name calling etc.
Left wing management
April 1st, 2011
2:33 pm
LBB: “Can we get back to the topic, please?”
You mean back to how you still haven’t explained how it’s wealth envy when Warren Buffett himself says “We have class warfare allright, and my class is wining it”? You sure can’t accuse Mr. Buffett of wealth envy, can you?
Well, can you?
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:33 pm
Here you go mm. Your philosophy in a nutshell: “From each according to his ABILITY, to each according to his NEED”
-karl marx
AmVet
April 1st, 2011
2:35 pm
Barry, not that I would ever doubt your veracity, but can you show me where “Jay pointed out in this very post, corporations pass taxes on to consumers.”
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:35 pm
Marx’s biggest most obvious mistake. The guy thought we lived in a world of abundance, instead of a world of scarcity.
Del
April 1st, 2011
2:35 pm
Left Wing, you’re argument about humanitarian motives would have merit except his indecisive tendency prevented him from ordering the mission timely enough to really do any good. As for oil, not for our consumption but very much so for Europe that imports a considerable amount of Libyan oil. He was pushed into committing us militarily by some of our European allies based on their motive for intervention and not so much out of a concern for the anti-Qaddafi rebels. Gates had to push him back to reality.
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:36 pm
LWM 2:33 – RE buffett and wealth envy accusation. of course not. but that doesn’t mean others don’t have it.
your venn diagram is broken.
DebbieDoRight
April 1st, 2011
2:37 pm
Del: Obama does allow himself to be pushed…most recent into a civil war by France, the U.K. and Arab League to lead an air attack on Qaddafi forces ostensibly to protect the Libyan rebels, while it was really about Libyan oil
He’s too much of negotiator, (Again, I feel its due to his mother’s influential teachings); when he needs to be a cross between JR Ewing and Dick Cheney. I know i know, we all hate Dick Cheney — but when a man can say, on tv, that “deficits don’t matter” and nobody says SQUAT about it, when he can shoot a guy in the face and no one investigates it (remember the hoopla over Clnton’s friend killing himself ?); when he can give no-bid contracts to his friends and business partners and not one word is spoken against him, when he heads up an exploratory committee to choose Dubya’s VP running mate and CHOOSES HIMSELF, and not one person bats an eye; THAT’s a guy who knows where all the skeletons are buried and knows no one is gonna challenge him ’cause he’ll dig them up and bring the bones to your front door.
Cheney is a REAL politician.
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:39 pm
DDR – Cheney had gobs of what Obama doesn’t have: lots and lots of experience and accumulated real world knowledge.
Left wing management
April 1st, 2011
2:40 pm
mysty fyed : “My ability to pay higher taxes does not equate to my obligation to pay higher taxes. ”
Oh yes it does. Even if only in the sense expressed by the business writer who just published an article to the business press saying “Tax the super rich now or face revolution later” (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tax-the-super-rich-now-or-face-a-revolution-2011-03-29).
By the way, LBB, since your game is to claim that Obama is the ultimate evil, then that must mean anyone who opposes him is aye-okay in your book, right? So what’s your take on Mr. Beohner? Wouldn’t you agree the man’s in a bit of a fix these days? Isn’t there a touch of desperation in his forced outrage this week? (”well PASS the damn thing!”)
Boehner: “We control one half of one third of the government here in Washington, We can’t impose our will on the Senate. All we can do is to fight for all of the spending cuts that we can get an agreement to”
Don’t know about you, LBB, but when I hear things like “we control one half of one third of the government” I hear a desperate pre-emptive strike that’s an attempt to stave off potential attacks from the Tea Partiers. Don’t you?
jm
April 1st, 2011
2:42 pm
Well. I guess that ends it for the day. The liberal figments have been defeated once again.
misty fyed
April 1st, 2011
2:45 pm
Debbie,
You are a scary person.
Dave R.
April 1st, 2011
2:45 pm
AmVet, while Jay was using an argument from another, he didn’t seeem to disagree with it. From above:
“As Abrams points out, a new sales tax on auto repairs would also push your auto insurance rates higher. Approximately 40 percent of auto-repair work in the state is paid for by insurance companies, and they would have to pay the new sales tax on that work as well. Overall, Georgia insurers would pay an estimated $39 million in state sales tax on auto repairs, which they would pass along to their customers.”
Nice to see that Jay is finally on board the Dave R. Express when it comes to taxes!
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 1st, 2011
2:45 pm
There is no such thing as a free lunch
Any legislator worth his salt can get his meals paid for, during his 40 days at the Capitol.
Mick
April 1st, 2011
2:46 pm
jm
OK, I can accept that about daniels and he did back off from the same type of issues that scott walker brought on but it will take a heck of a lot more to pick off independents and democrats. Cheney? One of the worst people ever in politics, produced by this country…
Some People are stupid
April 1st, 2011
2:47 pm
WOW-
IT wasn’t directed to you. It was directed to LBB…hence why the leteers LBB were above WOW.
I was using the word wow…not the name….
But I’m the stupid one yet you couldn’t figure that out….ok…WOW
Dave R.
April 1st, 2011
2:47 pm
Debbie, the whole Cheney “Deficits don’t matter” comment was debunked weeks ago. You need to keep up.
Del
April 1st, 2011
2:48 pm
Debbie you do have writing style…must be your attorney side.
DebbieDoRight
April 1st, 2011
2:48 pm
Peadawg – That’s interesting because yesterday you told me to STFU. Kind of ironic that you are here ranting about Obama after the fact that you told me to STFU
I may not be too sure, but in the past week I’ve noticed quite a few people telling you to STFU, not just Peadawg……………
Left wing management
April 1st, 2011
2:49 pm
jm: “LWM 2:33 – RE buffett and wealth envy accusation. of course not. but that doesn’t mean others don’t have it.”
Wait a minute, the whole point though turns on whether it’s TRUE, right? It’s got nothing to do with whether this or that person HAS wealth envy or not just so long as what they’re saying is TRUE – namely that there is a class war being waged by the super wealthy against everyone else. Right? The whole point of right wingers claiming that the only reason some claim there is such a war is that they’re resentful that they themselves are not wealthy. But if someone convincingly makes the claim for whom that doesn’t apply, then that may indeed mean it’s true.
Yessss, I think so, my friend.
See, I know you’d see the light.
Jonas
April 1st, 2011
2:49 pm
oh my- the ol’ turd in the punchbowl. No more facts please!
If you want to understand better why so many states—from New York to Wisconsin to California—are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, consider this depressing statistic: Today in America there are nearly twice as many people working for the government (22.5 million) than in all of manufacturing (11.5 million). This is an almost exact reversal of the situation in 1960, when there were 15 million workers in manufacturing and 8.7 million collecting a paycheck from the government.
It gets worse. More Americans work for the government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined. We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers. Nearly half of the $2.2 trillion cost of state and local governments is the $1 trillion-a-year tab for pay and benefits of state and local employees. Is it any wonder that so many states and cities cannot pay their bills?
Ghost of Bill Hicks
April 1st, 2011
2:49 pm
DebbieDoRight,
I explained this years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MRykTpw1RQ&NR=1
Cheney is one of the people in the room. He took a more hands-on role in GWB’s administration because, as we all know, Junior was a f-ing moron.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:49 pm
Try reading the post, AmVet!
“Overall, Georgia insurers would pay an estimated $39 million in state sales tax on auto repairs, which they would pass along to their customers.”
AmVet
April 1st, 2011
2:52 pm
Scout, it’s not up there with Mike Vick, but glad to see you’re covering up for kids who decapitate and abuse animals for fun.
Very Christina of ya…
Thought Police
April 1st, 2011
2:54 pm
Do businesses actually pass on their costs to their customers. What if you’re not a customer! Then what! Sounds like a case for giving the business a tax break so they can increase their “customer” base.
Dave R.
April 1st, 2011
2:56 pm
I’d quit thinking on that remark, Thought Police. Turn in your badge.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:56 pm
SPAS is the stupid one who can’t grasp the concept that saving $2 a week produces $52 savings in half a year and $104 in a full year.
You went to public schools, right SPAS?
Dave R.
April 1st, 2011
2:56 pm
Oh, and yes, they actually do.
AmVet
April 1st, 2011
2:58 pm
Gotcha, Barry. I perused it twice, but apparently too quickly.
So the conservative idea, I gather, is that the ideal scenario is that businesses pay no taxes?
So are you making up the difference in lost revenues to public coffers with yours?
Or do you just pass your taxes along, as well?
DebbieDoRight
April 1st, 2011
3:00 pm
DaveR: Debbie, the whole Cheney “Deficits don’t matter” comment was debunked weeks ago. You need to keep up.
Debunked? Really?
Del: Debbie you do have writing style…must be your attorney side
Why thank you Del!! Most (the majority) of attorneys (even Tax Attorneys) write and/or dictate tomes of information to go into briefs and/or case files. Trial attorneys are the best writers (and actors) you’ll ever meet though — they are very eloquent and precise in their language at all times.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
3:01 pm
Abstract legal constructs, such as corporations, don’t pay taxes, people do. Taxes paid by corporations come out of either their workers, owners, or customers pockets.
Peadawg
April 1st, 2011
3:01 pm
“That’s interesting because yesterday you told me to STFU. Kind of ironic that you are here ranting about Obama after the fact that you told me to STFU.”
The fact that you still don’t get my point is funny. Yesterday’s blog was about the tragedy in Japan…NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMA. That’s why I thought it was the wrong place/time to bring up Obama.
jm
April 1st, 2011
3:03 pm
LWM 2:49 – I’ll acknowledge there’s a bit of class war going on, though its more complex than a simple “the rich are winning”.
The real winners so far are the Chinese.
@@
April 1st, 2011
3:03 pm
Delayed response.
stands:
And CNN is the King of Pullin’ Your Pug Polls.
========================
Everyone covets.
Can’t say that applies to me. Only thing I ever coveted was Jillian Michaels’ “guns”. Couldn’t take ‘em from her so I worked to get my own.
I’m out but here’s my music contribution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slUIDNUnbO4
Dave R.
April 1st, 2011
3:03 pm
“Debunked? Really?”
Yes, really. When he said those words you libs love to quote, he was talking about ELECTORAL POLITICS of 30 years ago, not fiscal issues. Keep up.
Some People are stupid
April 1st, 2011
3:03 pm
LBB-
WOW(Not to be confused with the person going under the moniker WOW)..
If I cut $60 dollars out of my yearly budget right now, did I cut 60 or did I cut 78.
You don’t account for already spent money. Better yet, your example.
2 dollars a week for half a year is 52 dollars for a whole year is 104. You don’t make the decision in the middle of the fiscal year and say we saved 104 dollars, you save 52. Thats the part you are missing. When you get a raise at work in the middle of the year from 50k to 60 k, your w-2 doesn’t say 60k, it says 55k. YOur accounting for spent money has already happened.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
3:06 pm
The only class warfare going on is being waged by the parasite class against the productive class. To the extent that the underclass is losing ground, it’s mainly because they have failed to take advantage of our free education system and find themselves competing against folks who are more than happy to work for $2 an hour. The underclass is also more likely to use drugs and engage in other risky behaviors.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
April 1st, 2011
3:06 pm
AmVet:
How about shooting deer with a gun for fun? With a bow and arrow for fun?
How about hooking a poor little bass with a steel hook for fun? Even throw it back to be hooked again!
How about racing horses around a track where many break a leg and have to be executed by lethal injection?
How about shooting poor little quail with a 12 guage shotgun no less?
How about killing moles in your yard with POISON ? Boy do they die a slow death.
How about killing rats or flying squirrels in your attic by crushing them to death?
And last but not least don’t forget the babies that are torn apart everyday by the thousands.
As I said before, this country has lost all sense of right and wrong on this and many other subjects.
Dave R.
April 1st, 2011
3:07 pm
SPAS, the GOP Congress is cutting spending in real time, so when they say they’ve cut $50 billion, it is actually $50 billion.
Mick
April 1st, 2011
3:08 pm
dave r@ 3:03
So I’m assuming that you had a nice conversation with your close bud and hunting partner the dick cheney and he laid it all out for you and that’s how you know for sure, correct?
Dave R.
April 1st, 2011
3:08 pm
“How about killing rats or flying squirrels in your attic by crushing them to death?”
Ewwww!
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
3:08 pm
Well, SPAS, that’s all fine and good but the Republicans promised to cut $100 billion on a full year basis, so your argument is inoperative.
So how much are the Democrats proposing to cut?
DebbieDoRight
April 1st, 2011
3:10 pm
jm: DDR – Cheney had gobs of what Obama doesn’t have: lots and lots of experience and accumulated real world knowledge
Yeah he had gobs of something allright…..I’m more prone to think it was more in the line of useful secrets against his enemies. I find it ironic, a man who got a deferrment from the military for bad feet(?); that he was the Sec. Of Defense under Daddy Bush.
Left wing management
April 1st, 2011
3:10 pm
LBB: “The only class warfare going on is being waged by the parasite class against the productive class.”
I agree entirely which is why I’ve said over and over that the parasite Robber Baron Wall Street class and CEOs should start paying their fair share and stop sending jobs overseas and gutting the manufacturing class (the productive class, as you correctly put it).
See, I knew we had more in common than we thought, LBB
jm
April 1st, 2011
3:11 pm
LBB 3:08 – Democratic Budget Cuts? Oxymoron.
Del
April 1st, 2011
3:11 pm
Dave R. I liked the slow death for moles. Kicking fire ant butt didn’t even get honorable mention.
Dave R.
April 1st, 2011
3:11 pm
“So I’m assuming that you had a nice conversation with your close bud and hunting partner the dick cheney and he laid it all out for you and that’s how you know for sure, correct?”
The fact that I am still upright proves that I am not Cheney’s hunting partner, Mick.
And it was explained in a post I made (with associated link) a couple of weeks ago. He was discussing electoral politics in the Reagan era when he made that comment. He was pointing out that deficits didn’t matter to voters back then.
@@
April 1st, 2011
3:11 pm
I must admit…I’ve got a Low Country Quail dish “to die for”. But then I saw a cluster (forget what you call it) scurrying around with those little curls on their heads and haven’t touched ‘em since. Somethin’ about that little curl.
Dusty
April 1st, 2011
3:12 pm
Why don’t you guys hang out in a tavern and express the dumbness of each one present? I mean every day the same ol’ stuff over and over. RedNeck could join you to enlighten the crowd. Bookman could bring his collection of homemade graphs. Debbie might come and show you how to fight! I say “Go, fellows, Go!” Fresh air will be good for you. (I’m only concerned about your health, of course.)
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 1st, 2011
3:13 pm
Taxes paid by corporations come out of either their workers, owners, or customers pockets.
That is true. They’ll take it out of whichever one it’s easiest to get it from. Sometimes the customer but not always. Their first choice is customers, choice two if employees and choice three is the owners. There is another choice in the case of large corporations. Since the Board of Directors control things, they can take it out of dividends, assuming there are any.
AmVet
April 1st, 2011
3:13 pm
“Abstract legal constructs, such as corporations, don’t pay taxes, people do.”
If that is true, how is it that corporations pay taxes to federal, state and local jurisdictions AND taxes are also applied to owners or other members of those entities on dividends, income and other distributions?
Also, how is it that businesses can deduct losses, credits and other items.
I’m just trying to understand this claim.