U.S. military balks at promised Afghan drawdown
Military leaders and President Obama’s civilian advisers are girding for battle over the size and pace of the planned pullout of U.S. troops from Afghanistan this summer, with the military seeking to limit a reduction in combat forces and the White House pressing for a withdrawal substantial enough to placate a war-weary electorate.
Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top allied commander in Afghanistan, has not presented a recommendation on the withdrawal to his superiors at the Pentagon, but some senior officers and military planning documents have described the July pullout as small to insignificant, prompting deep concern within the White House.
At a meeting of his war cabinet this month, Obama expressed displeasure with such characterizations of the withdrawal, according to three senior officials with direct knowledge of the session. “The president made it clear that he wants a meaningful drawdown to start in July,” said one of the officials, who, like the others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to share internal discussions….
Two senior military officials said one set of options being developed by staff officers in Kabul involves three choices: the removal of almost no forces; the withdrawal of a few thousand support personnel, including headquarters staff, engineers and logisticians; and the pullout of a brigade’s worth of troops — about 5,000 personnel— by culling a battalion of Marines in Helmand province that was added after the surge, a contingent of soldiers training Afghan security forces and an Army infantry battalion in either the country’s east or far west.
I don’t blame Petraeus and other military leaders for trying to keep as much manpower as possible in Afghanistan. They’ve fought hard and sacrificed a lot for whatever progress they’ve been able to make, and they naturally don’t want to see it all evaporate.
But in the end, it’s not their decision, and it shouldn’t be. I don’t know how much time is enough time, but I do know the tenth anniversary of our invasion of Afghanistan is coming up. I don’t know how much money is enough money, but at this point it’s costing us $120 billion a year. And I don’t know how many American lives this is all worth, especially given the dismal performance of the Afghan government that we’re trying to defend. But last year we lost 499 soldiers and Marines, in that cause, and another 73 have been killed so far this year, with the spring fighting season yet to begin.
It’s time to start drawing down. It’s time to start handing Afghanistan’s fate back to its people.
– Jay Bookman
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937 comments Add your comment
@@
March 31st, 2011
9:55 am
AmVet:
I never thought I’d say this, but would you pleeeeeeaaaaase…
Throat: I am a
patriotfaketriot.And by definition, the never served, never will variety.
Standard operating procedure for the boys in the 101st Chairborne.
Later, ladies, germs and trolls…
come up with some new material or STFU!!!!!
@@
March 31st, 2011
9:56 am
Whooaaaa
and FOIST, it is!!!!
Manchurian-Kenyan Candidate...er, I mean President
March 31st, 2011
9:56 am
On a serious note red ryder, if Petraeus makes the recommendation that only minimal or no troop reduction takes place, NO WAY Obama has the gonads to countermand Petraeus and brings them home. This spineless president would quake in his shoes. Think of the PR nightmare he would face when al-Queda and the mullahs run over the country. The only person with any gonads in the cabinet is Hillary, and she’s wanting to take care of the soon to be grandbabies starting in ‘12
Left wing management
March 31st, 2011
9:57 am
Interesting point Deep Throat, but when you say “War is not political, when one places politics with our troops we see our flag falter” I part ways with you.
Me, I’m with Clausewitz on that one.
name
March 31st, 2011
9:57 am
@ dawg
The troops are currently occupying countries they were sent to by our previous non-military president. That current guy just inherited the problem, though he is creating a new one with Libya. Both of em suck as President, regardless.
willie lynch
March 31st, 2011
9:58 am
Wow
This isn’t the Soprano’s. China will not be calling in our debt. How could that benefit them in any way?
George W
March 31st, 2011
9:58 am
Barry is losing control….oh no…….
Doggone/GA
March 31st, 2011
9:58 am
“I part ways with you. ”
I agree. Wars are always, and ONLY, political
Deep Throat
March 31st, 2011
9:59 am
Taxpayer read my first post and you will see my answer. If the president supports our troops I will give him my support for doing so, but I will not follow our president over a cliff.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:00 am
Jay, you should read this:
D.C.’s leading export: Total partisan war
Camped-out protesters, an incendiary judicial battle, wall-to-wall attack ads: the scorched-earth politics that resulted from Gov. Scott Walker’s recent effort to limit collective bargaining rights have made it seem as if Washington had come to Wisconsin.
It’s not an isolated incident.
In capital after state capital, Washington’s toxic culture is seeping in, suffocating local tradition and replacing it with the Beltway’s unique contribution to American politics—the practice of permanent, total war.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/52280.html
Thanks Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid.
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:00 am
Then again, it could just be a deal with China to payoff our debt.
The Chinese need their minerals for manufacturing so conspiracy theories are flying faster than beck after another opiate bing.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:01 am
The world we live in is much different now than ever before. Turmoil in the Middle East can reach our borders as we have seen (9/11). If we know the Middle East is the center of this problem we have no choice but to do everything in our power to try and correct this problem. Leaving the Middle East will only allow the threat to organize and once again there will be potential for an attack on our soil. This is why you see Obama not doing anything like he claimed when campaigning for President. Our presence is the Middle
East is no different now than when Bush was in office. Still, Obama supporters hold him accountable for nothing, he plays you like a fiddle. Unrest in Middle East is only growing stronger, our presence there is not going to be changing anytime soon…
Manchurian-Kenyan Candidate...er, I mean President
March 31st, 2011
10:04 am
I can’t wait to see what the “Annointed, Hopey-Changey, post racial, Transformative-figure, Nobel Prize Winning President” do when Assad really starts to unleash the goons and kill his people. I mean his dad killed 10K in one fell swoop!! For me, I’m buying more stock on Tomahawk missiles, hopefully Barry will come thru for me…
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:05 am
Thank you OFA for ruining state politics Republicans win a few state houses, want to pass some of their legislation, and the Democrats erupt in walkouts and exporting their vitriolic hate to state capitals across the nation.
Despicable indeed.
md
March 31st, 2011
10:06 am
“Wars are always, and ONLY, political”
I doubt the folks in Pearl Harbor would agree with that statement……….
willie lynch
March 31st, 2011
10:07 am
People let’s get it straight. Over the last 25 years what country has killed more civilians than any other in the world?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:07 am
And it’s a joke how Jay Bookman is basically saying it’s not Obama’s fault, the General’s are telling him what to do… Well, I guess it wasn’t Bush’s fault either because every intelligence officer out there was telling him that Iraq was an immediate threat to America…
Manchurian-Kenyan Candidate...er, I mean President
March 31st, 2011
10:08 am
Meanwhile, Hu Jintao is laughing is azz off. Barry has secured for China one of its main oil suppliers and they didn’t have to lift a finger…… Meanwhile Hu is buying up more of Barry’s debt!
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:08 am
Democrats are despicable.
Despite the November drubbing, the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee continues to hit back hard: It recently went on the air in Indiana with television ads accusing Gov. Mitch Daniels of “hurting middle-class families.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/52280_Page3.html#ixzz1IBbQj89v
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:09 am
Gates is leaving and is getting real with his answers to questions
Somebody should ask him why we are still there when we know it is a loser.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:09 am
@willie lynch
If you are implying that America has killed more civilians than any country in the world over the last 25 years you are pathetic. How about some numbers?? Oh yeah, you don’t have any…
The Mandarins
March 31st, 2011
10:10 am
But we are buying your debt to help your economy. Without us working so hard and saving to finance your spending, your currency would collapse. You should be very thankful of us Mr. Manchurian-Kenyan Candidate.
md
March 31st, 2011
10:10 am
“Over the last 25 years what country has killed more civilians than any other in the world?”
I for one would love to see that link…..not the talking point memo…..but the link.
Left wing management
March 31st, 2011
10:10 am
Doggone/GA: “I agree. Wars are always, and ONLY, political”
Yep, and the most insidiously political efforts are often the ones that claim to be non–political, a-political, extra-political, or whatever, or decry politics as somehow being a less worthy objective that some other more ‘pure’ pursuit (like war! LOL), a vice right and left alike are guilty of.
It’s one of the more annoying cliches of modern politics to claim a higher position that is free of “playing politics”, unlike one’s grubby-handed enemies. If I could, I would wish that stupid phrase and way of thinking banished from the lexicon of politicians.
George W
March 31st, 2011
10:10 am
jm….”Democrats are despicable”…..are you just now realizing this? Welcome to the truth!
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:11 am
@willie lynch
Maybe your statement should have said, what country has helped the rest of the world the most over the past 25 years, than the answer would be America. Why don’t you just leave the country if you hate it so much??
Midori
March 31st, 2011
10:11 am
Deep Throat – wtf are you talking about?
Like AmVet, I served my country.
Unlike you, it wasn’t from behind a keyboard and monitor.
Rafe Hollister
March 31st, 2011
10:12 am
Afghanistan, what a conundrum. If we leave now, all the blood and booty was for naught. AlQueda and Osama return and reinstate their training camps. The radical Islamist dance in the street and celebrate their victory and become more determined than ever to do in the good ole USA.
If we stay, we probably will be committing ourselves to a permanent war, where we continue to spend and lose our military personnel. Al Queda will come through and do an ethnic cleansing and again subjugate the women and female children. A pointless choice, the electric chair or lethal injection.
It is going to be hard to cheer for either decision.
pat
March 31st, 2011
10:12 am
You cannot draw troops down if the mission is not accomplished. Watch and see, the troops will remain until objectives are met. Leaving unfinished business will give the terrorists the same safe harbor they had ten years prior.
Just like Lybia, the president is going to surprise you, the troops will remain.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:13 am
Issues only become bipartisan in this country after the Democrat plan and strategy utterly fails and leads to disaster in our nation.
See: education. The Dems have only woken up to the need for change after we’ve dropped from 1st to something like 22nd in education internationally.
Now: oooo there’s a problem. When will the ignorant learn?
willie lynch
March 31st, 2011
10:13 am
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:09 am
How about some numbers? Can you provide them?
Manchurian-Kenyan Candidate...er, I mean President
March 31st, 2011
10:14 am
Mandarin, and we are so thankful you are!!! Many of us Americans do not know the concept of “saving”, especially since our Dear Leader has promised us free everything…..Please keep making more and bigger flat screen TV’s we can buy with our government checks
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:14 am
From a liberal:
Skunked
* Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security now account for 44% of total federal spending and are steadily rising.
* Previous Congresses (and Administrations) have relied on the assumption that we can grow our way out of this onerous debt burden.
* Unless entitlements are substantially reformed, the U.S. will likely default on its debt; not in conventional ways, but via inflation, currency devaluation and low to negative real interest rates.
http://www.pimco.com/Pages/Skunked.aspx
JohnnyReb
March 31st, 2011
10:15 am
Once again the Obama arrogance, lack of experience, and supreme drive to be reelected at any cost coming shinning through. His Afghan strategy was flawed from the start. Those who have experience told him. Now, he reaps what he sewed. Yes, the war has been too long. Yes, it cost’s too much. And, most of all, pulling out before victory should not be an option. W. tuffed out the criticism of Iraq. Obama does not have the fortitude or character to do the same in Afghanistan.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:15 am
That adorable skunk, Pepé Le Pew, is one of my wife Sue’s favorite cartoon characters. There’s something affable, even romantic about him as he seeks to woo his female companions with a French accent and promises of a skunk bungalow and bedrooms full of little Pepés in future years. It’s easy to love a skunk – but only on the silver screen, and if in real life – at a considerable distance. I think of Congress that way. Every two or six years, they dress up in full makeup, pretending to be the change, vowing to correct what hasn’t been corrected, promising discipline as opposed to profligate overspending and undertaxation, and striving to balance the budget when all others have failed. Oooh Pepé – Mon Chéri! But don’t believe them – hold your nose instead! Oh, I kid the Congress. Perhaps they don’t have black and white stripes with bushy tails. Perhaps there’s just a stink bomb that the Congressional sergeant-at-arms sets off every time they convene and the gavel falls to signify the beginning of the “people’s business.” Perhaps. But, in all cases, citizens of America – hold your noses. You ain’t smelled nothin’ yet.
md
March 31st, 2011
10:15 am
“Afghanistan, what a conundrum. If we leave now, all the blood and booty was for naught. AlQueda and Osama return and reinstate their training camps.”
Might be the better course of action………let them come back and set up shop, then send in the tomahawks……….
Boots on the ground indefinitely is not an option………….
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:16 am
@Willie Lynch
I didn’t make the comment, making such an outrageous comment you would think someone would actually be able to back up there statement….
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:16 am
I speak, of course, to the budget deficit and Washington’s inability to recognize the intractable: 75% of the budget is non-discretionary and entitlement based. Without attacking entitlements – Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security – we are smelling $1 trillion deficits as far as the nose can sniff. Once dominated by defense spending, these three categories now account for 44% of total Federal spending and are steadily rising. As Chart 1 points out, after defense and interest payments on the national debt are excluded, remaining discretionary expenses for education, infrastructure, agriculture and housing constitute at most 25% of the 2011 fiscal year federal spending budget of $4 trillion. You could eliminate it all and still wind up with a deficit of nearly $700 billion! So come on you stinkers; enough of the Pepé Le Pew romance and promises. Entitlement spending is where the money is and you need to reform it.
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:17 am
Looks like jm is breaking the off topic rule.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:18 am
The above four multi-trillion-dollar liability balls are staggering in their implications. Remember first of all that the nearly $65 trillion of entitlement liabilities shown above are not some estimate of future spending. They are the discounted net present value of current spending should it continue at the projected demographic rate (importantly – it is much higher than the annual CPI + 1% used as a discounter because demand for healthcare rises much faster than inflation.) And while some Honorable Congressional Le Pews would counter that Medicaid is appropriated annually and therefore requires no discounted reserve, those words would surely count as “sweet nothings,” believable only to those whom they romance every several years at the polls. The incredible reality is that the $9.1 trillion federal debt that constitutes the next-to-tiniest ball in our chart is nothing compared to unfunded Medicaid and Medicare. It is like comparing Pluto to Saturn and Jupiter. The former (the $9.1 trillion current Treasury debt) does not even merit planetary status in our solar system of discounted future liabilities. It’s really just a large asteroid.
Look at it another way and our dire situation becomes equally revealing. Suppose that the $65 trillion of entitlement liabilities were fully funded in a “lockbox,” much like Social Security is falsely imagined to be. Just suppose. And say the cost of that funding (Treasury debt) was the same CPI + 1% that was used to produce the above discounted present value in the first place. Actually, that’s not a bad guesstimate for the average yield of all Treasury debt. If so, then the interest expense on the $75 trillion total debt would equal $2.6 trillion, quite close to the current level of entitlement spending for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. What do we pay now in interest? About $250 billion. Our annual “lockbox” tab would rise by $2.35 trillion and our deficit would be close to 15% of GDP! The simple conclusion would be this: Unless you want to drastically reduce entitlement spending or heaven forbid raise taxes, then Pepé, you’ve got a stinker of a problem.
willie lynch
March 31st, 2011
10:18 am
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:11 am
Morphine administered in small doses is recognized as something helpful, too much at one time will kill you. Just because Thomas Jefferson was a great American statesman, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a rapist. Unless sex with a 13 year old slave girl is different. America’s benevolence is not the question. Do I need to repeat the original post, or can you stay focused?
TaxPayer
March 31st, 2011
10:18 am
Deep Throat,
Should we bring home the troops from Afghanistan or not.
Select,
A) Bring them home
or
B) Do not bring them home
or
C) All other possible options.
It’s just a question. I’m guessing your answer is C.
Left wing management
March 31st, 2011
10:19 am
md: “Wars are always, and ONLY, political / I doubt the folks in Pearl Harbor would agree with that statement……….”
The victims at Pearl Harbor, like those of the 9/11 attacks and attendees of mosques or Israeli markets where lethal bombs are detonated are victims primarily of things that occur – or don’t occur – in the POLITICAL realm.
The great German political theorist Carl Schmitt – not necessarily an ideological ally of mine – is an essential source here:
The concept of the political is based on a shared view of the enemy, no more and no less. The enemy is by definition a mortal enemy, i.e. one you are willing to kill if necessary. Hence the ever present possibility of war that is baked into the very nature of politics.
Tommy Maddox
March 31st, 2011
10:19 am
Hey carlosgvv @ 8:34:
McCain is not in charge. Someone else is keeping Halliburton busy.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:19 am
Previous Congresses (and Administrations) have relied on the assumption that we can grow our way out of this onerous debt burden. Perhaps we could, if it was only $9.1 trillion, as shown in Chart 2. That would be 65% of GDP and well within reasonable ranges for sovereign debt burdens. But that is not the reality. As others, such as Pete Peterson of the Blackstone Group and Mary Meeker, have shown much better and for far longer than I, the true but unrecorded debt of the U.S. Treasury is not $9.1 trillion or even $11-12 trillion when Agency and Student Loan liabilities are thrown in, but $65 trillion more! This country appears to have an off-balance-sheet, unrecorded debt burden of close to 500% of GDP! We are out-Greeking the Greeks, dear reader.
If so, and if the USA were a corporation, then it would probably have a negative net worth of $35-40 trillion once our “assets” were properly accounted for, as pointed out by Mary Meeker and endorsed by luminaries such as Paul Volcker and Michael Bloomberg in a recent piece titled “USA Inc.” However approximate and subjective that number is, no lender would lend to such a corporation. Because if that company had a printing press much like the U.S. with an official “reserve currency” seal of approval affixed to every dollar bill, that lender/saver would have to know that the only way out of the dilemma, absent very large entitlement cuts, is to default in one (or a combination) of four ways: 1) outright via contractual abrogation – surely unthinkable, 2) surreptitiously via accelerating and unexpectedly higher inflation – likely but not significant in its impact, 3) deceptively via a declining dollar– currently taking place right in front of our noses, and 4) stealthily via policy rates and Treasury yields far below historical levels – paying savers less on their money and hoping they won’t complain.
Midori
March 31st, 2011
10:19 am
not quite as despicable as you, jm…….
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:20 am
getalife 10:17 – go run your own blog.
George W
March 31st, 2011
10:20 am
midori…now THAT was a mature response!
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:20 am
If I were sitting before Congress – at a safe olfactory distance – and giving testimony on our current debt crisis, I would pithily say something like this:
“I sit before you as a representative of a $1.2 trillion money manager, historically bond oriented, that has been selling Treasuries because they have little value within the context of a $75 trillion total debt burden.
Unless entitlements are substantially reformed, I am confident that this country will default on its debt; not in conventional ways, but by picking the pocket of savers via a combination of less observable, yet historically verifiable policies – inflation, currency devaluation and low to negative real interest rates. Our clients, who represent unions, cities, U.S. and global pension funds, foundations, as well as Main Street citizens, do not want to be shortchanged or have their pockets picked. It is incumbent, therefore, in order to preserve the integrity of the U.S. Treasury market along with its favorable global interest rates, and to promote a stable U.S. economy, that entitlement spending be reduced, and that future liabilities be addressed in terms of healthcare and Social Security cost containment. You must attack entitlements and make ‘debt’ a four-letter word.”
Thank you, and like Pepé Le Pew, why don’t you try changing your stripes or at least pretend you’re a French-speaking cat. The odor in these chambers is all too familiar and a skunk needs all the help it can get.
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:20 am
@@ wants us to shut up.
No @@.
TaxPayer
March 31st, 2011
10:20 am
Democrats are despicable.
I hope you do not know any Democrats that you call friend.
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:21 am
Tick, tick, tick.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:21 am
Midori 10:19 – still playing the ignorant I see.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:22 am
TaxPayer 10:20 – let me revise. The Democratic Party is despicable. There is a difference.
md
March 31st, 2011
10:23 am
“The victims at Pearl Harbor, like those of the 9/11 attacks and attendees of mosques or Israeli markets where lethal bombs are detonated are victims primarily of things that occur – or don’t occur – in the POLITICAL realm. ”
Since the political realm is never ending, one could make the claim that everything is essentially political…….
As for Pearl…….sure, it was political for the Japanese……….but I disagree that it was political for the US………..to be a true two sided political war, one would have to surmise that the US would have gone to war for political reasons regardless………..and I don’t see that as the case.
Adam
March 31st, 2011
10:23 am
There is now plenty of reason to dislike Obama’s handling of several issues. Among them:
1) The wars in the middle east, including now Libya.
2) The handling of oil drilling permits
3) Not keeping promises on reinstating liberties that we USED to have pre-9/11 pre-Bush.
4) Not enough fighting back against the conservative tsunami that is focused on social issues and cuts to both spending AND taxes, rather than jobs
Please try to remember, this is coming from a liberal progressive.
Allow me to explain a little on my points. With regard to the wars, I don’t think any of us wanted another one. As a side note I find it fascinating that even conservatives don’t like this war, when most of them haven’t met a war they didn’t like. Still, I am still of the opinion we should have left it alone. Going through UN channels and transferring power to NATO is a small consolation and not really worth the action in the first place. While I support humanitarian aid, I just don’t think we have the capacity to really provide this, even if it’s just part of a coalition, because of how much money, time, and energy we have ALREADY spent doing things the WRONG way in other places.
As for oil drilling permits, now, in the past 30 days, we have seen 7 new oil drilling permits being issued under assurances that it is now safe to do so. What makes it safe? NOTHING. Ever since the moratorium, and the so called “de facto” moratorium, very little has changed as far as safety goes for the prospect of deep water drilling. What has changed is that there is more safety training, and … well that’s about it. No new equipment is being used, even after a report by a third party Norwegian company found that the blowout preventers themselves do not work, even if they function as they are designed. That same report recommended a redesign of blowout preventers to help… prevent blowouts. Instead the focus by the Department of the Interior seems to be on containing a spill once the blowout preventer has already failed in deep water. Even then, the claims about that capability is dubious as there is really no new equipment being used to help with such an effort. But still, we are issuing permits now at breakneck speed, presumably a response to the conservative tsunami which includes the mantra “DRILL BABY DRILL.”
Again, just to keep track, this is from a liberal progressive, and I have laid out so far 2 points to be unhappy with Obama’s performance.
As for not keeping promises about returning civil liberties to the people after the terrorism scares, I think it’s fairly obvious that this has not happened and is not even a priority for this administration.
And as for not fighting back, well, I think it’s fairly obvious at this point that conservative movements are much more aggressive and mean spirited towards the liberal side than the other way around. Where public figures often use the term “liberal media,” you never hear public figures use the term “conservative media,” even though both exist in roughly equal measure. Lies told on the conservative side are believed more readily than lies told from the liberal side, and reporting told by the liberal side that is actually true is more readily ignored than reporting with a conservative spin. None of this has been addressed in the second half of Obama’s term, and likely will not be. This is probably a minor complaint compared to the others but worthy of mention.
Now, that’s 4 key points of why I am unhappy with Obama. And I’m a liberal progressive. Yay! right? Surely this means I will turn conservative and start voting the other way!
No, I will still vote for Obama in 2012. And let me tell you why.
In my first 3 points, you can COUNT on the conservative Republican side to do WORSE on all 3. If you think we have too much war now, just WAIT until a Republican gets to be president again, despite any campaign assurance a la Bush in 2000. If you think we have too many oil drilling permits going out without enough safety concerns addressed right NOW, then just WAIT until a Republican gets to be president again, despite any campaign assurances. And if you think our civil liberties are being attacked NOW, then just WAIT until a Republican gets to be president again, despite any campaign assurances that they want small and limited government.
To my fourth point, I will say that the conservative tsunami will ONLY get worse if that happens too, and will not be on the small, limited government side. It will instead be on the side of the conservative movement that basically wants to control little aspects of our personal lives even more, including doctor’s visits and secret phone taps and so on. You can see it in current legislation that is either already law, or is being proposed by House Republicans and passed in that same House.
So yes, DESPITE all these criticisms I have of Obama, I can GUARANTEE that a Republican president would do all of the same, ONLY MUCH WORSE. And that is why I will vote Obama in 2012. Because until the Republicans actively and actually support limited government both here and abroad, there is no point to me voting for them over the Democrats.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:24 am
@willie
You are so typical, when you are wrong you resort to petty insults when you have no clue of who you are talking to. That’s a sad way to handle yourself… Like I said though, very typical and very telling about oneself.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 31st, 2011
10:24 am
Well, long as it ain’t my folks being brought home in a metal coffin, I say let’s keep the troops over there. I’m a Conservative Republican, and good Conservative Republicans beleive in war and the jobs it brings. Unlike these librul Traders that want to pull our troops out, I Support the Troops. I got the bumper sticker to prove it.
Have a good day everybody.
Adam
March 31st, 2011
10:24 am
Alright, perhaps that post is too long. But it’s a good read for those of you wondering why someone doesn’t defect as soon as they see problems, and it shows good critical thinking skills the likes of which you are unlikely to find from a Fox News viewer, or a conservative blog reader.
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:25 am
jm,
You are a con.
You are not smarter than others.
Not even close.
Take your off topic posts to kyle wingnut’s blog troll.
All you trolls can go with jm.
Enough is enough.
Left wing management
March 31st, 2011
10:26 am
JohnnyReb: “Once again the Obama arrogance, lack of experience, and supreme drive to be reelected at any cost coming shinning through”
You might not be too far off with this characterization, but just remember: in each of these traits he was at least equaled by his predecessor, if not exceeded, and with Bush there was the additional lethal vice of a complete and utter lack of intellectual curiosity, even a deep loathing and contempt for thinking outright. Now granted Obama is not particularly curious either – IMO Obama’s much lauded intellectual capabilities are greatly overestimated – but at least his intellectual and ideological position does allow for some actual openness for flexibility and thought – and what that shameless mouther of cliches Mitt Romney described the other day as “nuance”.
Midori
March 31st, 2011
10:26 am
thank you Getalife.
He needs to get back under the bridge.
and take GW with him.
Maybe they can open a business.
Trolls ‘R Us
Adam
March 31st, 2011
10:27 am
LWM: This is kind of my thinking as well, although I took much longer to articulate it above
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:28 am
getalife 10:25 – go whine to Jay. no doubt you have already done so.
You know no more about my politics than Hu Jintao.
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:28 am
Hi Midori:)
Hope you are feeling bettter.
They are stinking up the blog so we have to flush the cons.
md
March 31st, 2011
10:28 am
“and it shows good critical thinking skills the likes of which you are unlikely to find from a Fox News viewer, or a conservative blog reader.”
That one line killed any credibility you may have had……….so, do you actually know all the Fox news viewers and conservative blog readers??
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:28 am
@Adam
Just some number for you, Fox News gets about 5 million or so viewers a night, there are about 125 million or so Republicans in America. This means that about 120 million Republicans are not watching much Fox News…
Rafe Hollister
March 31st, 2011
10:29 am
No matter which way Barry goes on staying or leaving, I hope that he will give one order to the troops guarding Karzai. Inform the enemy that we will stand down effective this hour and his well being is in your hands. Allah have mercy on his retched soul.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:29 am
Midori / getalife – upset about being outnumbered and being faced with facts?
You’re like kids on the playground wanting to take your ball and go home. Only you don’t control the ball. When you can refute the facts, you just accuse someone of being a troll.
Cheerio!! I’m having a great day.
George W
March 31st, 2011
10:30 am
Midori….hmmmm lets see…..open a business, help the unemployment numbers, provide a beneficial serivce for the communiity…..all so the Demoncrats can call them evil……hahahahah great.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:30 am
Your money is worthless.
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:31 am
jm,
Lets keep it that way con.
George W
March 31st, 2011
10:31 am
Midori and Getaflfe collectively must have the IQ of a three year old. It is amazing to me the amount of ignorance on this blog.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:32 am
Microsoft is going after Google, accusing it of anti-trust violations. How…. ironic.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/52290.html
Mick
March 31st, 2011
10:32 am
jm
Let me counter; the repub party is not trustworthy, period. They were not put in power over the budget, they said they would create jobs and have not offered one jobs bill. The tea party? Cold as ice and just an extreme wing of the repub party. Address the deficit over a span of time, not over night. Afterall, all this debt was largely accumulated from 01-08 with the debt ceiling being raised six times. Why now and why all at once? Repubs and their ideology only favors the welathy who are let off the hook every time…
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:33 am
getalife 10:31 – no worries, Mr. Ostrich.
carlosgvv
March 31st, 2011
10:33 am
Poison pen
The Military Industrial Complex is not only huge, it is also very powerful. They may not start wars but they have a very large influence on which wars we become involved in. After all, business is business.
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:33 am
jm,
I just scan your ignorance and scroll by like most cons here.
You all say the same thing like you share one brain.
It is old and tired.
Like @@ said.
Just shut up..
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:35 am
@Mick
So where are the jobs Obama promised?? I guess you give him a pass?? And please give me some facts on how Obama has helped the “average” man out??
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:35 am
@Mick
And I assume you believe Democrats are “trustworthy”. Why do you believe that?
Paul
March 31st, 2011
10:35 am
Woodstock Mike
“Just some number for you, Fox News gets about 5 million or so viewers a night, there are about 125 million or so Republicans in America. This means that about 120 million Republicans are not watching much Fox News…”
The correct base (denominator) in any such example should be the population under consideration, such as viewers of network or show “A” vs all viewers of like networks or shows, not total population within a country, alliance, world or universe.
willie lynch
March 31st, 2011
10:36 am
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:24 am
Come on Mike, where is the insult? I can pull up a number off of a site to say x-amount of people have been killed and you would argue that the site didn’t know what it was talking about. I don’t wish to dilly dally over these types of issues.
America has been the biggest, most capable and most willing country to exercise it military power much to the detriment of civilian populations. The fact that two wars in Iraq having resulted in the loss of some 800K-1.5 million Iraqis eludes you should insult you more than the imaginary slight you claim I have leveled.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:36 am
Mick 10:32 – Republicans, to my recollection, did not say they would create jobs. They said they would cut spending. For starters, Republicans don’t believe government can create jobs, though they do believe government can get out of the way to help others create jobs.
But people take different things away from political campaigns, so I can see how one might interpret it that way. Mick, the facts are, 1/3 of the debt predates Bush, 1/3 is Bush’s, and 1/3 is Obama’s. Bush racked up his 1/3 in 8 years (pretty bad nonetheless), Obama has racked up his 1/3 in 2 years.
Why now? Because if nothing is done we are toast in the time frame of 6 to 9 years. Really toast, Greece style toast. And in 6 to 9 years its too late to stop the ship from sinking. So it has to be fixed now or never.
George W
March 31st, 2011
10:36 am
Getalife….Being that you love Obama so much….can you tell me what he has done to improve your living conditions?
I am assuming you know what “living conditions” means.
The Thin Guy
March 31st, 2011
10:37 am
WWII ended 66 years ago. We still have thousands of American soldiers stationed in Germany and Japan. Rationale? If we pull all the troops out of Japan and German their government will not revert to what was there prior to WWII. Six months after the troops are pulled from Afghanistan they will ruled by dictatorship. But is the cost to us worth it? No. I’d rather invade Cuba and Venezuela. They fit our preferred enemy profile, no nukes and we can easily destroy their military. Plus they are geographically isolated. North Korea, thanks to Jimmy Carter has nukes, so they would cost too high a price. So Little Kim is safe but Fidel and Hugo should be toast.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:37 am
getalife 10:33 – speaking of trolls, mr. pointy ears, you resemble one. Nothing substantive to say, just lobbing spitballs from the cheap seats.
@@
March 31st, 2011
10:37 am
Getalife:
Not “us” as in all. Just AmVet’s boring redundancy. Even if I were on jay’s team, I’d get tired of reading it. It’s like eating limp broccoli day in and day out.
I’m always amused when he signs off with “And the crowd goes crazy”
I’ve begun to wonder if Mrs. Godzilla isn’t in here diddlin’ if’n you know what I mean….procreating herself?
Boo-o-o-o-ring!
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:38 am
“It is amazing to me the amount of ignorance on this blog.”
w got another one right.
Yup, the cons are really ignorant and repeat con talking points all day.
Like @@ said.
Get new material or shut up.
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:39 am
I feel the same way about the cons here @@.
Booooriiiiing.
Yawn.
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:39 am
getalife – had an original insightful thought yet today? mmm guess not
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:40 am
getalife – you’re the worst kind of liberal. just one who doesn”t even know enough to try to debate the points. that’s the best route, because in the end you’ll lose anyway.
George W
March 31st, 2011
10:41 am
Getalife….why do you not answer one question seriously? All you say is “the cons here are ignorant”….
Show your intelligence and answer an question.
md
March 31st, 2011
10:41 am
“The fact that two wars in Iraq having resulted in the loss of some 800K-1.5 million Iraqis eludes you should insult you more than the imaginary slight you claim I have leveled.”
And it is a false assumption to attribute all those deaths to one side in the conflict……..now break it down and give us some numbers……….
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 31st, 2011
10:41 am
@Willie
So I guess you think that the civilian population was doing just fine under Sadaam?? That is where we differ…
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:42 am
Midori / getalife just come here to socialize and, as some put it, leg hump. When they can’t do so in private and people suggest their ideas and their leg humping is actually wrong, they get so upset.
George W
March 31st, 2011
10:42 am
jm….he doesnt know how to debate the points. All he know is “That Mista Obama imma gonna support him cause he kinda looks like me”.
getalife
March 31st, 2011
10:42 am
I had two on topic jm. Not sure why we are still there when we know it is a loser so I am guessing.
Try it con.
Why are we still there when we know it is a loser?
Dazzle us genius.
Midori
March 31st, 2011
10:44 am
The Pepsi Syndrome
http://vimeo.com/20995501
jm
March 31st, 2011
10:45 am
Local GA Pacific info and politics all rolled in one. Even a labor guy has more sense that the liberal rubes around here.
Labor harmony at a Koch company
An unexpected blog item from a senior official of the United Steelworkers, a core AFL-CIO union:
A number of organizations are advocating a boycott of the products that come from companies owned by the Koch family. This is problematic for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that it could potentially hurt the wrong people.
The Koch brothers own Georgia Pacific. It is an American consumer goods company that makes everyday products like facial tissue, napkins, paper towels, paper cups and the like. Their plants are great examples of American advanced manufacturing. Incidentally, GP makes most of its products here in America. The company’s workforce is highly unionized. In fact, 80 percent of its mills are under contract with one or more labor union. It is not inaccurate to say that these are among the best-paid manufacturing jobs in America.
This presents a dilemma and a paradox. While the Koch brothers are credited with advocating an agenda and groups that are clearly hostile to labor and labor’s agenda, the brothers’ company in practice and in general has positive and productive collective bargaining relationships with its unions.
George W
March 31st, 2011
10:46 am
Getalife….so it is a losing discussion because Obama is losing control and even the military generals are battling against him right now? Works great for the Repubs…..check!