Federal inaction on immigration lets issue fester
Georgia legislators sponsoring anti-immigrant bills say they have been forced to act by frustration with the federal government, which they believe has been unwilling to address illegal immigration issues.
Unfortunately, those legislators have a point, at least about the federal government’s failure to act. In fact, they have every right to be frustrated, even if the solutions they propose to fill the void left by federal inaction are unworkable.
Thanks to a combination of cowardice and political opportunism, Congress has indeed abdicated its duty to deal with tough immigration issues. The few steps it has taken in recent years — such as efforts to tighten border security — have been little more than useless if expensive window dressing.
Certainly, our border with Mexico needs to be tightened as much as possible. In practical terms, however, a boundary more than 2,000 miles long through mainly undeveloped areas can never be made secure against people sufficiently motivated to cross it. That’s a fact.
It’s also a fact that at least 10 million illegal immigrants already live here, and at this point, most have every intention of staying. According to the 2010 Census, roughly 850,000 Hispanics live in Georgia, and by some estimates as many as half may be here illegally.
So what do we do about them?
That’s the question that elected officials at the federal level refuse to address. That’s the vacuum that state legislators such as Rep. Matt Ramsey, R-Peachtree City, and Sen. Jack Murphy, R-Cumming, claim to be trying to fill. And it is really the crux of the whole illegal immigration debate. With the economy in the tank and the flow of illegal immigrants greatly reduced, the real issue is how to deal with those already here.
There are two basic options: Either make those people go back where they came from, or they stay. Ramsey, Murphy and other conservative legislators prefer that they go back where they came from, and are trying to pass laws so punitive that they will leave on their own. (The option of tracking down, arresting and removing 10 million people, using law enforcement and the judicial system to sift the illegal from the legal, is understood by almost everybody to be hopeless.)
Personally, I have no faith that a policy of discouragement can work. Illegal immigrants have already proved themselves willing to endure great risk, sacrifice and hard work.
No matter how difficult we make things, no matter how inhumane or punitive we make our laws, most illegal immigrants are going to conclude that things are better for them and their children here than they would be back home. And if you think about it from their point of view, they’re right.
Changing that calculation would be very, very difficult.
The alternative, then, is to acknowledge the continuing presence of illegal immigrants while providing an avenue for them to leave the shadows and join the mainstream. That’s a step that only Congress can take — a step that it has so far refused to take, and that it shows no signs of taking in the foreseeable future.
Back in the ’80s, President Ronald Reagan supported legalization, explaining in a 1984 presidential debate that “I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally.” Thanks to his backing, Congress agreed.
A few years ago, President George W. Bush tried to convince members of his party to follow Reagan’s lead, but the effort failed. President Barack Obama has also expressed support for such a change, but with chances of passage almost non-existent, he has expended no political capital on its behalf.
As a result, we’re stuck with a choice between bad solutions and no solutions at all.
– Jay Bookman
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710 comments Add your comment
@@
March 29th, 2011
12:32 pm
I have zero problems with those clauses, George W.
And yet AmVet’s “fans” never call HIM a xenophobe but sit silently by while he calls conservatives who support those same measures xenophobes.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
12:34 pm
“Well, you can break your local government by suing over immigration, or you can break your local government by making them attempt to round up and deport every illegal immigrant. Either way, I hope you enjoy life without police, firefighters, water, and sewer. But by god, you’ll be rid of them ill-eegals!”
So you would rather have illegals here draining the entitlement system and wrecking our education system then pay for essential employees like police, fire, education, etc? How talk about threats? Didn’t know that you loved illegals so much and hated public servive employees as well.
AmVet
March 29th, 2011
12:36 pm
@@, it’’s tough, but try to avoid your silly logical fallacies and irrelevant appeals.
Or at least just quit the outright lying…
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 29th, 2011
12:37 pm
When the fire department chief tells the public their homees will burn if there isn’t a property tax increase to pay for his department, somebody needs to tell the people, “you’re going to have to choose between fire services and libraries, because the well is dry”
Sounds like an opportunity for an enterprising individual to formulate a successful business model for either providing fire protection or access to books. I agree with your point about spending vs taxes. I think that ALL people, liberal and conservative, need to understand that the things they want cost money. They then need to determine whether it’s a need or a want and whether or not they need or want to pay for it.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
12:37 pm
“When the fire department chief tells the public their homees will burn if there isn’t a property tax increase to pay for his department, somebody needs to tell the people, “you’re going to have to choose between fire services and libraries, because the well is dry”
These are empty sick threats! They don’t want to get rid of illegals draining our economy yet they act is they can play games with the lives of the taxpaying citizens. It’s disgusting!
misterbill
March 29th, 2011
12:37 pm
MC-
Your last post to me indicates that you truly do not understand what is happening. My son’s circle of friends cover the gamut of good success to “tough luck” Two of them have felony charges. So they apply for hard work, low paying jobs. They are turned down even when their status is not known. Why, they are competing in the low wage market where it is very common for folks to be paid off the books.They cannot get a job anywhere, even when they apply at the all the low paying locations. They are not hired yet the illegals are.
One is a certified welder. He has only had a few weeks this year as a welder. Most of his competition are illegals.
You are not an American, if you truly understand the problem. You take the side of foreign nationals over our own citizens who would gladly take the jobs that the illegals have taken.
I will wager that your job is not threatened by low paid foreigners.
I had always though that part of being an American was the freedom to be or do what one wants to do no matter what schooling we have had or not had. So, a PHD who wants to be a carpenter, a waiter, a cab driver, and many other jobs, cannot do so in America anymore because people with your attitude shelter and support foreigners who are here illegally.
PS I bet you are thrilled to buy Chinese made shoes, etc. It doesn’t matter to you how Americans a suffer as long as you save money.
You probably don’t stand for the national anthem , either.
PPS If you respond to this, please pus “1″ for English. Eat your tacos when we become a 3rd world country.
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
12:39 pm
firewoman, tell me how much it would cost to round up and deport all illegals. When you find that amount lying around, let us know.
I didn’t know you loved ignorance so much and hated actual thinking as well.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
12:39 pm
“I think that ALL people, liberal and conservative, need to understand that the things they want cost money. They then need to determine whether it’s a need or a want and whether or not they need or want to pay for it.”
Illegals are a want, not a NEED! We certainly don’t need them to continue to drag down our economy!
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
12:42 pm
carlosgvv
March 29th, 2011
11:47 am
Granny – “some folks call that American, some Christian”
And some folks say that since no other country in the world allows so many illegal aliens into their country as we do then either we know something that they don’t or they know something we don’t. Which do you think is the most likely?
Without a doubt, we know something they don’t…..well actually something you know too but can’t take to heart…the true meaning of American Exceptionalism
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
12:44 pm
Aquagirl, you can give up your welfare check and food stamps for a month. That should be enough to send a few back. Just think, if all the entitled banded together and gave up something. Better yet, you can chaperone your illegal friends back home and stay and that will be a Win Win in future savings for US!
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
12:46 pm
firewoman, the math defeated you? How surprising.
Truthpaste
March 29th, 2011
12:47 pm
Folks like Aquagirl, AmVet and Granny stand to loose most if the illegals are gone. Their breath stinks with hypocrisy.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
12:47 pm
Paul
During “grandpa winter sleep away camp” this year we took Pop to several WWII museums and historical sights and they are all clamoring for P-38 to have on display. (Going to Oshkosh this summer to see one)
Funny, now, to see him nearly blind and talking about taking off from Papua heading into the darkness with the directions written on his hand
and having to navigate by the stars…..he misses the incredible independence of those times.
And yes, they were the greatest generation.
md
March 29th, 2011
12:49 pm
“firewoman, tell me how much it would cost to round up and deport all illegals. When you find that amount lying around, let us know.”
Close all the doors, and they will go home on their own……………..and get in line like the other poor folks around the globe.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
12:49 pm
Truthpaste
March 29th, 2011
12:47 pm
Folks like Aquagirl, AmVet and Granny stand to loose most if the illegals are gone. Their breath stinks with hypocrisy.
You are mistaken, but the new name du jour is minty fresh
Paul
March 29th, 2011
12:50 pm
misterbill
People with felonies are most times automatically rejected for jobs.
Most Americans do not believe in “you’ve paid your debt to society.” They want punishment to continue forever.
So those trying to make an honest living aren’t hired and the cycle of crime continues.
But let a politician propose doing away with such job discrimination and see what happens to his political career.
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
12:50 pm
The biggest thing about AmVet is that in practically every other post he accuses cons of lying. Yet he never provides one iota of proof as to why this or that con is lying.
This propensity to accuse others of lying without a single shred of proof of said person lying indicates an irrational, mindless tendency towards dogmatic thinking.
2 ways to go through life. Believing everything you hear or not believing anything. Both keep us from thinking.
And in AmVet’s case is is guilty of both. He believes everything from the liberal groupthink dogma and believes nothing from the conservative side- he instead just calls them liars if he disagrees with them.
My prognosis is that his case is hopeless. He will be forever shackled on the groupthink plantation.
RB from Gwinnett
March 29th, 2011
12:52 pm
Aquagirl, your argument it would cost money to deport illegals is just plain dumb. I can load up a bus with 60 of them and have them at the border in less than 48 hours. If that’s 45 adults and 15 kids, I just saved $135,000 a year for educating those 15 kids at 9 grand per.
How’s that for math sweetie?
Paul
March 29th, 2011
12:52 pm
Granny Godzilla
What struck me was how absolutely huge those fighters are. Big, big aircraft.
If you ever get a chance to go to the Air Force Museum at Wright Patterson AFB next to Dayton, Ohio, please go. It’s worth a trip. Don’t think they have a P-38 but they sure have a lot.
AmVet
March 29th, 2011
12:52 pm
Mystery meat, please expound.
LOL…
BTW, Einsteen, the word is lose, not loose…
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
12:53 pm
OK, md, how much is it going to cost to “close all the doors?” And how do you propose to do it? Contrary to WND wisdom, there’s not one big door down there in Texas.
@@
March 29th, 2011
12:54 pm
AmVet:
Or at least just quit the outright lying…
You’re denying that “xenophobe” is not among your vast repertoire of name calling?
Libertarian
March 29th, 2011
12:55 pm
“I see we’ve reached the stage of infantile insults. Sad to think that this sort of thing actually passes for DEBATE with that crowd”
No one said anything when your pal “getalife” suggested putting all “cons” in a plane and letting them be blown to bits over Libya.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
12:55 pm
Paul
What stikes me is they put 19 year olds in the pilot seat….
The best and the brightest, after batteries of tests, but still 19….
Amazing.
I’ll look into Dayton…As long as he can still see, I want to be able to show him the world.
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
12:57 pm
Paul,
That is true and not true about felonys. One of my best friends in Atlanta finally got a job and a damn good one with a pending felony. He had to explain the felony indepth- domestic disturbance where he lost control and beat his wife up when she told him she had been having an affair. Probably didn’t help that he is black and his wife white. He got a letter from her stating it was all a misunderstanding and the felony is only pending- it falls off after 5 years of not having any legal troubles or arrests. It can be done but it depends on the nature of the felony. If it was for embezzlement or theft or robbery, etc. then a guy can probably kiss his chances of ever getting a serious job goodbye. Such is the price of crime.
md
March 29th, 2011
12:57 pm
“OK, md, how much is it going to cost to “close all the doors?” And how do you propose to do it? Contrary to WND wisdom, there’s not one big door down there in Texas.”
Expand your definition of “door”………………….no jobs, no assistance, no housing……they will go home.
And since you seem to be advocating for them, maybe you can explain why their rights are greater than the rights of those they jumped in front of??
I’d love to hear your side of that story…………
RB from Gwinnett
March 29th, 2011
12:58 pm
Granny, not many 19 year olds flying jets in the USAF. Without a college degree, you won’t get much further than fueling them and college degrees for 19 year olds are pretty rare.
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
12:59 pm
RB, the problem with your scenario isn’t math, it’s lack of reality. I suppose I should have specified “non-bizarro world math” for some of y’all who live there.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
1:00 pm
RB
Good thing it was early in the 1940s and the Army Air corp…..
@@
March 29th, 2011
1:01 pm
Oops! Let me reword that.
You’re denying that “xenophobe” is among your vast repertoire….?
Paul:
I’ve been doing a little research of medical malpractice and the V.A..
Claimants do have to pay attorneys to move their cases thru the court system. From a veteran’s site.
If you believe that you have a valid claim against the VA, you should seek the advice of an experienced Attorney, immediately. The FTCA provides a limitation on Attorney fees for claimants of 20% in settlement and 25% once the case is in litigation.
Not to say that some haven’t been successful. The V.A. has paid out some big bucks in damages. I guess it comes out of our pockets in the end.
I’m not into suing. It’s discouraged in The Bible.
Jefferson
March 29th, 2011
1:03 pm
Granny, Paul there is a great aviation museam (sic?) down in Warner Robins at the end of the AFB. Free, very interesting.
md
March 29th, 2011
1:03 pm
“it’s lack of reality”
Lack of reality is accepting that the solution is to allow folks to jump the line and get away with it…….the first amnesty situation compounded the problem by setting the precedent…….and your reality is to do it again??
Paul
March 29th, 2011
1:05 pm
Thulsa
Part of my outlook is based on my brother-in-law’s brother. Did time for drugs. Applied for a truck driving job. Company said “we’d hire you, but we’re subs for a nationwide company and their policy is ‘no felons.”
Guy said “this was 25 years ago….”
They said ’so sad, too bad.”
I’m of the ‘you’ve paid your debt, don’t hold it over their head and keep them from getting a job’ camp.
AmVet
March 29th, 2011
1:05 pm
“Oops! Let me reword that.”
Good! Because that first post made no sense at all.
And the answer is nope, no denials here.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
1:05 pm
“no jobs, no assistance, no housing”
lets not forget no public education for the kiddos.
Paul
March 29th, 2011
1:07 pm
Jefferson
I’ve been there! You are correct, it is great.
@@
I’ve often thought one of the best reforms that could be made for malpractice and other cases is to do what the VA did – limit the attorney’s share of the settlement.
@@
March 29th, 2011
1:07 pm
People with felonies are most times automatically rejected for jobs.
There’s a company here in Clayton County who sets their own quota for hiring felons. Most of ‘em turn out to be pretty good employees. Not all, but most.
I won’t divulge the name here. jay’s bloggers may desert their blogging post and diverge on them all at once.
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
1:07 pm
RB from Gwinnett,
Yes. They were talking about pilots in the 1940s. Incidentally George Bush 1 was at the time of his service as a bomber pilot reputed to be the youngest naval aviator in history at that time. He was only 19. Shot down twice over the Pacific. I always found it odd that libs would call him a “wimp” given these accomplishments.
Clayton County
March 29th, 2011
1:09 pm
No doubt about it @@. We have or fair share of felons here and then some!
RB from Gwinnett
March 29th, 2011
1:09 pm
Aquagirl, in the big kids blog, we generally expect people to defend arguements with facts or logic. If you would care to explain to us all why there is something wrong with my math or my plan, I’d be glad to hear it. If all you have is silly retorts with nothing of value in them, go play somewhere else.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
1:09 pm
RB, Aquagirl has no basic math skills, besides her argument is she loves illegals and wants them to stay. False compassion and stupidity is a classic combination!
@@
March 29th, 2011
1:10 pm
I’ve often thought one of the best reforms that could be made for malpractice and other cases is to do what the VA did – limit the attorney’s share of the settlement.
Agreed, but then lawyers would have no incentive to protect the downtrodden. Public defenders don’t hang around government for too long. There’s a reason for that.
There’s big money to be made in and off Washington.
poison pen
March 29th, 2011
1:11 pm
AmVet, if you are going to correct spelling and call people names for misspelling, then they might start calling you dumb, as you have made your share of them. We all make mistakes in spelling and grammar and I think we should at least try to be civil about that.
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
1:12 pm
Well, md, we should spend hundreds of billions of dollars we don’t have, because you have your undies in a bunch over line-jumpers? Did someone shove you at Kroger’s and you now feel compelled to take that out on somebody? And why do you want to legislate like a screaming drama queen who has lost a glittery pump?
@@
March 29th, 2011
1:13 pm
Clayton County:
It’s a family owned company. Been here since 1947. They’re looking to relocate. They’ll be missed.
JKL2
March 29th, 2011
1:13 pm
aquagirl- many illegals already risk their life coming here.
How??? Malpractice from the free healthcare we give them?
md
March 29th, 2011
1:17 pm
“Well, md, we should spend hundreds of billions of dollars we don’t have, because you have your undies in a bunch over line-jumpers? Did someone shove you at Kroger’s and you now feel compelled to take that out on somebody? And why do you want to legislate like a screaming drama queen who has lost a glittery pump?”
Once again, why not just answer the question………why are their rights greater than those of others???
It is a very simple premise……follow the laws and treat others as one wants to be treated………
So, you have no problems with picking and choosing laws and treating others as inferior to yourself????
And spare me the drama queen rhetoric, etc……just debate the topic and answer the questions…..
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
1:20 pm
Paul,
I would tend to agree but I also think it depends on the crime and there should be some subjectivity but of course with some companies there is none. 25 years ago and its still following him? That indeed sucks. In the case of my buddy he is 50, former Marine, never been arrested in his life before the incident with his wife, was sincerely sorry or hitting her, and they have since reconciled and are friends.
I also have a woman I’m thinking about hiring. She is 62 and had a drug problem over 12 years ago. Has been clean since. What was her drug problem? Oxycontin and lortab. She developed an addiction to both after suffering pain from an operation. When she explained it to me I had no reservations. My only consideration now is how she would do on the job. And btw she is currently employed but is just looking around because her company is cutting hours due to economic conditions.
The state of Georgia has a youthful offender law where first time felony offenders can be forgiven ONE time depending on the nature of the felony. The conviction doesn’t show up on employment or other checks- only the police see it when they run records. Personally I think that’s a good thing since so many youngsters can do something really stupid early in life. Give em one break to realize the seriousness of what a felony record can do to their job prospects.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
1:20 pm
“we should spend hundreds of billions of dollars we don’t have, because you have your undies in a bunch over line-jumpers?”
hundreds of billions of dollars? How old are you?
illegals are line jumpers? Grow up Aquagirl, and stop pretending to be some silly blogging superhero.
It’s pitiful when you have to resort to cyberbullying as a way to express yourself!
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 29th, 2011
1:23 pm
I think that ALL people, liberal and conservative, need to understand that the things they want cost money. They then need to determine whether it’s a need or a want and whether or not they need or want to pay for it.
Agree with that but where the rub comes in, at the local, state and federal levels is most groups, all across the spectrum, think everybody “needs” to pay for what they themselves “want”. Most people’s attitude is “if it benefits me, it’s a good thing; if it benefits somebody else and I have to pay for it, it’s a bad thing”. In some ways, humans are predictable creatures.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 29th, 2011
1:27 pm
I’ve often thought one of the best reforms that could be made for malpractice and other cases is to do what the VA did – limit the attorney’s share of the settlement.
That brings to mind a class action case in the Anniston, Alabama area, a few years back. I forget all the details but the people won their case and each got a few thousand dollars a piece, while the lawyers got millions. Don’t remember the exact figure but the total plantiff group got an extremely small percentage of the award; the lawyers got the lion’s share.
JKL2
March 29th, 2011
1:29 pm
granny- (Going to Oshkosh this summer to see one)
I’d rent you my house but hopefully it will be gone by then. Let me know if you need any advice.
poison pen
March 29th, 2011
1:30 pm
Well it’s started, 2,200 Marines from Camp Lejeune are being sent to Lybia, but hey, don’t worry we were assured that we would have no troops on the ground. I think that they are really just going on a sight seeing trip.
Thank you, Obama
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
1:32 pm
Yes, firewoman—hundreds of billions of dollars. Really. I realize in RB’s world you can stick “illegals” on the side of a bus and they’ll show up, ready for the ride. If that fails, you’re gonna have to spend a little more cash.
You have to find all the illegals, figure out where they’re from, process them, and ship them home. The Chief of ICE, who should know a little about these things, gave a ballpark figure of $94 billion. And that was several years ago. You’d also have to build that GigaWall on the border to keep them out, and enlarge the Coast Guard by god knows only how much.
Mass deportation fantasies should stay where they belong—in the letters section of Soldier of Fortune, heating the loins of those who just hate, hate, HATE! “those people.”
Jerome Horowitz
March 29th, 2011
1:35 pm
Want to stop illegal immigration – make it a felony to hire one. See how fast they disappear. Did anyone note that the GA legislation started out with this provision? Then the businesses that hire them went ape stuff and the legislature backed down.
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
1:37 pm
Simplest way of eliminating the illegal problem is 2 fold. One is the v-check verification program if indeed it actually works. Assuming it works any and every employer has to verify a job applicant through v check to see if he is legal or not.
Secondly send out a 100-200 man force throughout Georgia that does nothing but show up on job sites and check workers to verify that they are legal immigrants or U.S. citizens. $500 fine for employing illegals first time, $1,000 second time, and so on until its simply not affordable to businesses to hire them. The proceeds of the fines more than pays for the new force of employment verifiers.
If a business says it has a hardship need for those employees cause American workers can’t be found then they can immediately file for those workers under a guest worker program. That way the worker is documented- we know who they are. The legal worker has to then pay a 10% surcharge on their earnings as a tax for the privilege of working here. This will help pay for the burden they put on our education system, social svcs system, criminal justice system, etc.
Also an American first policy for empoyers. The onus must be on employers to prove that there are no eligible American workers willing to do what the illegals are doing. With 10.4% unemployment in Georgia I find it hard to believe that there are no Americans willing to take some of these jobs such as carpet mill work. Who in the hell was working these jobs before illegals started coming en masse to begin with?
One huge problem we have is that illegals in big plants throughout Georgia claim crazy #s of dependents like 15 or so in an effort to avoid paying any tax on the stolen or fake soc sec #s. This robs our govt of revenue and puts a serious tax crunch on people whose real soc sec #s they stole and are using. No allowing the illegals to claim crazy #s of dependents. They pay the soc sec taxes, other applicable taxes, and that 10% surcharge. Also,no access to our social svc programs such as food stamps. Access to health clinics and education yes.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
1:38 pm
“heating the loins of those who just hate, hate, HATE! “those people.”
Aquagirl – Drama Queen (& Hypocrit)
Paulo977
March 29th, 2011
1:38 pm
carlosgvv
“And some folks say that since no other country in the world allows so many illegal aliens into their country “Oh sure go and preach that to the NATIVE AMERICANS……!!!!!!!!!!!!
md
March 29th, 2011
1:39 pm
“limit the attorney’s share of the settlement.”
That’s my biggest beef with bankruptcy cases………these companies can’t even pay what they owe their employees and creditors, but the lawyer fraternity (judges) almost always allows the attorneys full fees before any other money is paid out………..
Just a scam………….
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 29th, 2011
1:40 pm
Jerome Horowitz @ 1:35
I’ve suggesting fining anyone who knowingly hires an illegal, $50,000 per illegal employee. It’ll never happen, though.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 29th, 2011
1:42 pm
Poison Pen:
I hear you but there could be several reasons (or all):
1) Sends a mesage
2) For use of evacuation of U.S. or other ciitzens
3) Possible use in rescue of pilot(s)
4) That’s only a reinforced battalion. Marines are darn good but it would take a lot more than that to invade, conquer and hold the peace.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
1:42 pm
… The Chief of ICE, who should know a little about these things, gave a ballpark figure of $94 billion. And that was several years ago.
Well since the national debt is already at around $4 billion dollars a day, I’d say a little more pain is well worth the gain.
And no need for that GigaWall, that’s what we have an Armed Services for. It’s high time we let our soldiers stay home and fight for their own country on their own soil!
md
March 29th, 2011
1:43 pm
“in the letters section of Soldier of Fortune, heating the loins of those who just hate, hate, HATE! “those people.””
Please define “those people”, since illegals are made up of a very diverse group of people……
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
1:43 pm
Aquagirl,
We could shut down the border if we really wanted to. Politics simply don’t allow for it. 2,000 miles? So what. Close down a few of the 30 or 40 military bases in Germany and voile- we got 50,000 troops we can put on a 2,000 mile border- 25 troops per mile.
But the easier way would be my solution above. Fine the hell out of employers who employ them and we won’t have to round them up. They will leave of their own accord.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
1:44 pm
“I’ve suggesting fining anyone who knowingly hires an illegal, $50,000 per illegal employee. It’ll never happen, though.”
What if Aquagirl can’t pay the fine? Does she go to prison?
md
March 29th, 2011
1:45 pm
“You have to find all the illegals, figure out where they’re from, process them, and ship them home. The Chief of ICE, who should know a little about these things, gave a ballpark figure of $94 billion. And that was several years ago.”
What good is one variable from an equation?
Now give us the figure for letting them all stay……………..and then we can all do the math.
poison pen
March 29th, 2011
1:45 pm
What happened to all the Libs on here who were supporting us being in the lead on Lybia, now that we are sending Marines there? Damn it’s awfully quite.
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
1:45 pm
firewoman,
True enough. The stimulus was almost 1 trillion. What’s wrong with spending 100 billion. Plus we would get a tremendous cost savings back in terms of a reduced load on social svc systems, criminal justice systems, education systems, etc. The savings alone would possibly pay for sealing the border.
md
March 29th, 2011
1:49 pm
I’ll even give you a head start……..it costs 10.5 billion a year (each and every year) in CA alone……..
I’m guessing that 94 bill is a one time cost…………the money would be recouped over a 6-9 year period in CA alone………………..
Got anything else????
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
1:54 pm
md, ask firewoman, she’s convinced illegal immigrants are strangling the economy or whatever. Oh, and that ICE figure didn’t even include the cost of the roundup, BTW.
Thulsa, for god’s sake, can’t the military have at least a couple of years break? We’ve been at war for 10 years now. Besides, unless you’re into blowing off the Geneva Convention (which I’m sure some folks here are) what are they going to do to unarmed civilians? Yell at them?
poison pen
March 29th, 2011
1:55 pm
1811, I agree, but I remember Vietnam and Kennedy only started with a small crew also, they were called Advisors.
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
1:55 pm
md,
I saw a stat on Los Angeles alone a week or 2 ago. It said that the free benefits given to illegals in Los Angeles alone cost something crazy like 800 million per year. But when you think about 9 million Angelenos and probably at least 10% of them illegal then 800 million a year isn’t that much after all. I’m actually surprised its not more.
Teacher 404
March 29th, 2011
1:57 pm
We need to stop using US law as a reason that we must to educate illegals. They break the law by just being here and use fake documents to get in our public schools. We need to cut out ESOL and other enticements and makes those extras that even legal immigrants have to pay for.
Our country can no longer afford to be everything to everybody. Saving the World is costing us dearly. People argue that we want our kids in the US to excell like they do in China. Well guess what, China educations one culture where US schools are FORCED to education dosens of cultures.
The US public education system is is ruinsand getting rid of illegal aliens is just the frest start we need.
Teacher 404
March 29th, 2011
1:58 pm
dozens of cultures
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 29th, 2011
2:00 pm
LA is a fantastic example of what happens when illegals become a large percentage of a population. They are being bankrupted by illegals.
I guess LIBS would rather collapse the entire system instead of saving our country.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
2:01 pm
“md, ask firewoman, she’s convinced illegal immigrants are strangling the economy or whatever. Oh, and that ICE figure didn’t even include the cost of the roundup, BTW.”
Can’t play dodgeball in your flip flops, sweetie … it can be dangerous!
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 29th, 2011
2:02 pm
Redneck Convert, Czar, ICE. Yup, I like the sound of that.
poison pen
March 29th, 2011
2:02 pm
It seems to me that if we do nothing about Illegals in our country then in 10 years we will probably have 5 or 10 million more. I just want someone to explain to me kow we can support this?
I know the Libs think that money grows on trees, but I don’t want you picking off my tree.
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
2:03 pm
The 10.5 billion is at least some kind of number, even if it’s from an anti-illegal think tank. But 7.7 of it is for the children of illegal immigrants, not all of whom are illegal. Until the 14th Amendment is repealed, it’s anyone’s guess how much of that $7.7 billion you’d save.
poison pen
March 29th, 2011
2:03 pm
Woodstock, Amen brother, Amen
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
2:04 pm
Thulsa, for god’s sake, can’t the military have at least a couple of years break? We’ve been at war for 10 years now. Besides, unless you’re into blowing off the Geneva Convention (which I’m sure some folks here are) what are they going to do to unarmed civilians? Yell at them. – Aquagirl
Aquagirl,
You seem to be having some reading comprehension problems. Specifically where did I say we were going to war on the border? I said station them on or near the border. I didn’t say we were going to fight another war. God help you and your reading comprehension issues.
What are they going to do to unarmed civilians? Yell at them?-Aquagirl
Could you possibly have a more asinine statment? Have you ever heard of the term deterrence? And if troops do meet head on with illegals they simply hold them until border patrol agents come and round them up. Or you simply train these already highly trained troops to slap on some cuffs. Is it really that hard to do?
And for your information troops and especially U.S. troops all over the world are used for peackeeping duties, for keeping order, and basically as backup for all sorts of things. Why do you think we often call out the national guard in times of natural disaster? Ever heard of UN troops in their blue hats which are basically peacekeeping and order keeping forces? God you are dumb.
Last of all you really need to educate yourself. You are of a profound ignorance. The Mexicans are building a fence on their border to keep out other Central Americans. And they have troops not only all along their border to keep out Central Americans but also at regular checkpoints all through the interior to check identification. Only an ignoramus like yourself would not know these things.
@@
March 29th, 2011
2:05 pm
Thulsa’s plan for addressing illegal immigration makes perfectly good sense.
Couldn’t ‘ya throw in an illegal criminal into the package though? The way things are going, we’re gonna be short on law enforcement. The honest illegals can do the job for us.
(ISH)
I’m reading article after article that reports there is no legal recourse for veterans who have suffered medical malpractice at V.A. facilities.
Here’s a sampling of cases in which lawsuits have been barred over the years:
When sailor Dawn Lambert went to have a fallopian tube removed, military surgeons left five sponges and a plastic marking device in her abdomen. They remained there for months until a second surgery left her infertile.
For 11 months, Navy Lt. Cmdr. Walter Hardin’s red lesions were classified as eczema. His condition was correctly diagnosed as cancer shortly before he died.
Air Force Staff Sgt. Dean Witt’s appendicitis was misdiagnosed and he was sent home with antibiotics. When he collapsed at home, he was rushed into surgery and came out brain-dead.
According to his medical records, Marine Sgt. Carmelo Rodriguez was correctly diagnosed with melanoma when he entered the service. But no one told him about it or suggested any treatment. The cancer spread throughout his body and he died 10 years later.
Navy Petty Officer Joe Cragnotti went to a military hospital with pneumonia, which is treatable with antibiotics. It went untreated, and he suffered permanent brain damage.
“People don’t know about the Feres Doctrine until it happens to them,” she said. “Once you sign on the dotted line, the military can treat you any way they want without any recourse because of this law.”
The ruling has been criticized by judges all across the ideological spectrum. A 5-4 Supreme Court decision reaffirming it in 1987 drew dissents from Justices John Paul Stevens on the left and Antonin Scalia on the right. Scalia wrote that Feres “was wrongly decided and heartily deserves the widespread, almost universal criticism it has received.”
http://hamptonroads.com/2009/05/service-members-have-little-recourse-against-malpractice
When my interest is piqued, I go lookin’.
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
2:09 pm
Aquagirl,
One thing about Los Angeles and San Diego hospitals that is not in dispute. The health care system in southern Cal is on the verge of collapse. Why? Because of the cost of treating illegals. It also raises premiums so high on health insurance purchasing Americans that many of them end up dropping insurance due to the ever rising premiums and the viscious cycle gets even worse. Now you’re probably going to deny that this every day event is actually taking place.
md
March 29th, 2011
2:10 pm
“Oh, and that ICE figure didn’t even include the cost of the roundup, BTW. ”
OK…so what is that cost? And what is the long term cost/benefit of the operation?
If it cost 500 billion over a 5 year period, but saves 5 trillion over the long haul, then the 500 billion is a relative figure…………….
Throwing out numbers is useless without factoring everything in……….
And where is the answer to my question? Why do you continue to avoid an answer?
Why are their rights greater than those they jump??
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
2:11 pm
“But 7.7 of it is for the children of illegal immigrants, not all of whom are illegal.”
Anchor children are allowed to return home with their families. Afterall, we are not totally without compassion – families need to stay together.
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
2:15 pm
@@,
If its an incredibly violent illegal alien then we just bite the bullet and incarcerate them for a very long time before deporting them. Small time arrests for shoplifting stuff like that we just fine them silly and then deport them if its monetarily more feasible to deport them. I would just want to deport them deep into Mexico rather than a border town so that they can just run right back over again.
md
March 29th, 2011
2:16 pm
“But 7.7 of it is for the children of illegal immigrants, not all of whom are illegal.”
Uh huh…….so the family puts the money in the bank under the childs name….right?
It goes to the family, of which only one may be legal.
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
2:17 pm
md,
Like I said fine the employers until the employers refuse to hire illegals due to cost alone. At that point they will find their own way home. We won’t even have to lift a finger.
Kamchak
March 29th, 2011
2:17 pm
Washington (AP) – A high-level immigration official says it costs $12,500 to arrest, detain and deport each person removed from the U.S.
$12500 x 10,000,000 IAs = $125,000,000,000
$12500 x 20,000,000 IAs = $250,000,000,000
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
2:18 pm
Thulsa—if you’re deployed on border duty, you’re not at home, you’re not training, you’re not repairing your equipment, and people are shooting at you. Don’t be a dipwad, you know what it takes to deploy a unit. Also, using the military for cheap labor sucks. It’s disgraceful treatment.
Who cares what the Mexicans are building? Their fence obviously isn’t working, since we have Guatemalans, etc. here.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
2:21 pm
“The health care system in southern Cal is on the verge of collapse. Why? Because of the cost of treating illegals.”
Thulsa, just take a look at Grady. There was a dialysis center there that was forced to shut down not long ago because the overwhelming majority of patients serviced there were illegal, meaning the center was bankrupt. Grady even offered to retun those people home, locate and pay for some costs to get those patients life saving care elsewhere. The illegals balked!
My children’s former pediatricians office is nothing but illegals with peachcare. The gals in that office will tell you that no less than 10 years ago the cleintele was totally different.
Our federal government and supporters of illegal immigration should be ashamed of what they have done to encourage the untold ravages our country has endured. Yet they want to continue to use the economy and labels like racism in their little arsenal against the majority of US citizens.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
2:23 pm
“Don’t be a dipwad, you know what it takes to deploy a unit.”
Do tell SFC Aqugirl? Enlight us!
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
2:25 pm
Wednesday’s hearing focused on whether the Obama administration is doing enough to round up people working illegally in the U.S. ICE deported almost 393,000 people from the U.S. in 2010. At $12,500 per person the cost to remove them was almost $5 billion.
So at that cost with 10 million illegals to be removed the cost would be 125 billion dollars. Money well spent! In a cost/benefit analysis it would actually be worth it. Hell we just spent almost a trillion on porkulus uh, I mean stimulus and we have not a damn thing to show for it.
And the reality is that if employers can show hardship where they need illegal labor because they can’t find American labor then we wouldn’t even have to deport many of those illegals. We simply grant them guest worker status, tax them, and do not allow them to be a burden by disallowing access to food stamps and other social services.
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
2:25 pm
I’d favor letting Mexico take care of Mexicans. But since they’re fighting our Drug War on their soil, don’t look for that anytime soon. And expect more illegal immigrants fleeing the collapsing country.
firewoman
March 29th, 2011
2:26 pm
“Also, using the military for cheap labor sucks. It’s disgraceful treatment.”
I have two family members who are active military, they would LOVE to call your bluff!
PS … Using illegals as cheap labor sucks. That’s disgraceful treatment, sweetie!
@@
March 29th, 2011
2:27 pm
Thulsa:
Just trying to figure out a way to bring violent illegals into the open. They couldn’t care less about whether they work legitimate jobs. They’ll make their living as predators.
Kinda like coupons at the grocery store. Discount on retail price.
Hypocrit (D)
March 29th, 2011
2:30 pm
… A high-level immigration official (D) says it costs $12,500 to arrest, detain and deport each person removed from the U.S.
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
2:31 pm
Firewoman, I can’t argue with you there—if your relatives are anything like you, I’m sure they’d love to blow some teenager’s brains out.
seamusoshea
March 29th, 2011
2:34 pm
Jay, Let them commit a crime and deport them. Illegals are seven times more likely to committ a crime using a weapon than a caucasian, or check to make sure they are legal before we educate their children or give them a job or give them free health care.
No brainer Jay!
Thulsa Doom
March 29th, 2011
2:35 pm
Aquagirl
March 29th, 2011
2:18 pm
Thulsa—if you’re deployed on border duty, you’re not at home, you’re not training, you’re not repairing your equipment, and people are shooting at you. Don’t be a dipwad, you know what it takes to deploy a unit. Also, using the military for cheap labor sucks. It’s disgraceful treatment.
Who cares what the Mexicans are building? Their fence obviously isn’t working, since we have Guatemalans, etc. here.- Aquagirl
Aquagirl,
I’m going to help you some more with your critical thinking skills- free of charge!
1)Thulsa—if you’re deployed on border duty, you’re not at home, you’re not training, you’re not repairing your equipment, and people are shooting at you.
Don’t be a dipwad, you know what it takes to deploy a unit- Aquagirl.
yes. I do. And ya know what? We can deploy rapidly, quickly, and efficiently as we’ve always done. What an absurd point.
Aquagirl you simply move your equipment and facilities to U.S. border townss. We’ve moved materials and bases for hundreds of years. What a ridiculous point.
2)And people are shooting at you- Aquagirl?
What the hell? These are soldiers you abject fool? They know how to shoot back.
3)Also, using the military for cheap labor sucks. It’s disgraceful treatment.
Good grief. Your full of perfectly asinine points today. Its cheap labor? The border patrol does it! Going by your logic I guess they are ‘cheap labor’.
4)Protecting the border is “disgraceful treatment”. Um. Isn’t that what you sign up for when you joing the military? To protect the nation? Your stupidity is infinite in its vastness.
5)Who cares what the Mexicans are building? Their fence obviously isn’t working, since we have Guatemalans, etc. here.
More reading comprehension problems aquagirl? Mexico is building a fence as in present tense as in it hasn’t been completed yet. That’s why some Guatemalans and others still get through.