Obama explains limits, goals of Libya policy
Thanks to Western intervention and imposition of a no-fly zone, Libyan rebels who a week ago seemed doomed to indiscriminate massacre by Col. Moammar Gadhafi are now pressing their assault on the town of Sirte, the dictator’s hometown.
In a few minutes, President Obama is scheduled to brief the nation about our goals in implementing the no-fly zone over Libya, and the limits of our commitment there.
There are two ways to discuss the topic, as a matter of foreign policy and as a matter of domestic politics. Let’s deal first with the politics. As a newpoll by the Pew Research Center reports public attitude:
“Nearly half of Americans (47%) say the United States made the right decision in conducting air strikes in Libya while 36% say it was the wrong decision. Fully one-in-six (17%) express no opinion.
On balance, however, the public does not think that the U.S. and its allies have a clear goal in taking military action in Libya. Just 39% say the U.S. and its allies have a clear goal, while 50% say they do not.
Notably, most people do not view the United States as the lead actor in the military operation. Fully 57% say that the United States “is just one of a coalition of countries” involved in the military mission; far fewer (35%) say the United States “is leading the military action.”
There is little indication that views of the Libyan military operation are breaking along political lines. About half of Republicans (54%) and Democrats (49%) say the decision by the U.S. and its allies to launch airstrikes was right. Among independents, 44% see the airstrikes as the right decision, while nearly as many (41%) say they are the wrong decision.”
Nobody, including Obama, knows what will happen next in Libya. That’s why so many of the potential GOP presidential candidates have been so noncommittal about the policy. Nobody, not even the Libyans, have any real idea how this will turn out.
However, we do have a pretty good idea what would have happened without Western intervention, and it wasn’t going to be pretty. Thousands and more likely tens of thousands of Libyans would have slaughtered by their own government for daring to have dreamed of something better than dictatorial rule by a crazed despot. Here at home, many of those now sitting on the fence watching would have been condemning Obama as weak and feckless for standing by while the carnage played out.
I don’t know what the president is going to say, but I do find the conjecture about some kind of “Obama Doctrine” emerging from this incident rather odd. I don’t see a doctrine playing out here; I see a rather simple practical calculus at work: How much can you acccomplish, and at what risk? For a relatively small investment — certainly a far smaller investment than an eight-year occupation of Iraq that cost thousands of American lives and a trillion dollars — we are creating the conditions in which Libyans will have a chance — a chance — to create a better future for themselves.
U.S. attitudes toward interventions are changing, and probably for the better. But if you have a chance to save thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of lives, and create an opportunity for many thousands more, at relatively tiny risk to yourself, basic decency says you take that chance.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
360 comments Add your comment
Midori
March 28th, 2011
7:31 pm
FIRST!!
jack bull
March 28th, 2011
7:32 pm
somebody has to be the police of the world, why not us?
Midori
March 28th, 2011
7:32 pm
It’s Jeopardy time. Thulsa, et al, has the same answer for each and every category.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 28th, 2011
7:35 pm
Count me in the 44% of Independents who think the decision by the US and allies for the no-fly zone/air strikes was the right thing. Count me also as one of the 57% of Independents who doesn’t think the US and allies have a clear goal in Libya, or at least not a clear goal that they are expressing publically.
jack bull
March 28th, 2011
7:36 pm
you have admit, Obama does love the ‘celebrity’ that he has become.
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
7:38 pm
“U.S. attitudes toward interventions are changing, and probably for the better. But if you have a chance to save thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of lives, and create an opportunity for many thousands more, at relatively tiny risk to yourself, basic decency says you take that chance.”
Yes.
And look at all them charts and graphs! The Ole Bruin is on the ball!
@@
March 28th, 2011
7:40 pm
Put me with the Republican 54% (the right thing to do) and with the Independents 57% (has no idea what they’re doing.)
Does it really matter what he says, jay. He’s been known to say one thing, then do another.
schnirt
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
7:41 pm
The problem is, that as a result of all the verbal machinations regarding why he chose to intervene, that there is now really no excuse NOT to intervene virtually anywhere where there is political unrest that threatens lives.
No matter how explains it tonight, there will always be his litany of reasons over the past week he used to go in on video.
Lil' Barry Bailout
March 28th, 2011
7:41 pm
The Idiot Messiah just said he had started a war of choice and attacked preemptively.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 28th, 2011
7:41 pm
And look at all them charts and graphs!
A noted absence of color, though, don’t you think?
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
7:43 pm
Hilllbilly
“A noted absence of color, though, don’t you think? ”
Perhaps he’s going for ‘understated and moderate?”
Jonas
March 28th, 2011
7:44 pm
Head and shoulders pattern that should be faded and sold.
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
7:44 pm
Enter your comments here
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
7:45 pm
Midori @ 7:32,
I see the inculcation of dogmatic liberalism in your mind just can’t be overcome. My prognosis is that your case is hopeless.
jack bull
March 28th, 2011
7:45 pm
So, is he saying that if we, the American people, show up in Washington D.C., protesting the way he is running the country, he’ll step down? wow..
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
7:46 pm
Now where did that 7:44 come from? I was away from the keyboard when THAT popped up…hmmm
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
7:47 pm
It doesn’t matter which party the President is in, or if he is Black or White, The US will still be killing muslims.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 28th, 2011
7:47 pm
josef @ 7:46
My guess is it was that terrorist cat that resides with y’all.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
7:47 pm
“It is true that America cannot use our military wherever repression occurs. And given the costs and risks of intervention, we must always measure our interests against the need for action. But that cannot be an argument for never acting on behalf of what’s right. In this particular country – Libya; at this particular moment, we were faced with the prospect of violence on a horrific scale. We had a unique ability to stop that violence: an international mandate for action, a broad coalition prepared to join us, the support of Arab countries, and a plea for help from the Libyan people themselves. We also had the ability to stop Gaddafi’s forces in their tracks without putting American troops on the ground.
To brush aside America’s responsibility as a leader and – more profoundly – our responsibilities to our fellow human beings under such circumstances would have been a betrayal of who we are.”
Yup.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
7:48 pm
1) “Nobody, including Obama, knows what will happen next in Libya.”
And that’s the danger. We could very well be exchanging a Mussolini for a Hitler ……….. a dictator for an Islamic State with its goal the destruction of the United States.
2) ” … we are creating the conditions in which Libyans will have a chance …. ”
We need to be careful on this “we” stuff. Sometime I slip up and use it also.
It ain’t “we” – it’s the military personnel who carry out these sometimes flippant, political, how can I keep this from making me look bad or how can I look good on this one decisions.
Lil' Barry Bailout
March 28th, 2011
7:48 pm
Obozo has made an excellent case for war. In Iraq, circa 2002!
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
7:49 pm
Obama said earlier in the speech that he consulted carefully with Bi-partisan support in Congress before authorizing U.S. force.
Hmmmmm. Somebody be lying. Dennis (defeated the olive pit in court)Kucinich said Obama had no authorization or right to send in U.S. airpower and that Congress wasn’t cosulted. Matter of fact ole Dennis was madder at Obama than he was at that olive pit. Who is lying. Obama or Dennis the menace?
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
7:49 pm
“o brush aside America’s responsibility as a leader and – more profoundly – our responsibilities to our fellow human beings under such circumstances would have been a betrayal of who we are.”
Yup.”
Darfur?
WOW
March 28th, 2011
7:52 pm
“In a few minutes, President Obama is scheduled to brief the nation about our goals in implementing the no-fly zone over Libya, and the limits of our commitment there.”
And it only took him two weeks!!!!!! Guess he has more time to pay attention to the country now that his NCAA bracket was a total loss.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
7:52 pm
Very nice speech so far. Oh. Its obvious he’s using a teleprompter. Busted! Man you know Dennis the Menace is fuming. Good speech overall though.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
7:52 pm
If there’s an Obama Doctrine, I suppose this is its core:
“Because contrary to the claims of some, American leadership is not simply a matter of going it alone and bearing all of the burden ourselves. Real leadership creates the conditions and coalitions for others to step up as well; to work with allies and partners so that they bear their share of the burden and pay their share of the costs; and to see that the principles of justice and human dignity are upheld by all.”
Midori
March 28th, 2011
7:53 pm
Thulsa: “WAH”!!!!
That what all your posts sound like to me.
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
7:53 pm
Hillbilly…
Bet that was it! He was lurking about…
BTW
Has he said anything yet about Ms Clinton’s and Ms Rice’s punch to the gonads?
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
7:53 pm
Dave R.,
Ooops. You weren’t supposed to say the D word.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
7:54 pm
“But if you have a chance to save thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of lives, and create an opportunity for many thousands more, at relatively tiny risk to yourself, basic decency says you take that chance.”
Great, then you won’t mind giving Bush credit for liberating hundreds of thousands of Iraqis from the brutal dictatorship of Saddam Hussein.
What’s that? OHHHHHHH that’s right, Bush is evil.
jack bull
March 28th, 2011
7:54 pm
why does Kucinich say what he did was un-constitutional?
Lil' Barry Bailout
March 28th, 2011
7:54 pm
How many times is the Idiot Messiah going to say the same thing? Trying to fill out the half hour or what?
Peadawg
March 28th, 2011
7:54 pm
Hey, Jay…how does Obama anus smell? The reason I ask is b/c your head is so far up it no matter what it does it’s pathetic.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
7:55 pm
“If there’s an Obama Doctrine”
His doctrine is Bush 3.0.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
7:55 pm
Midori,
Here comes the part about the newly appointed stupid czar in Obama’s speech. This newly appointed stupid czar has been alerted to your repeated violations of every stupid law on the books. A warrant has been issued and they’re coming to get you now.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
7:55 pm
“We did not, repeat did not, trade arms for hostages.”
Jay
March 28th, 2011
7:55 pm
Right, Wow. The degree of US commitment in blood and treasure to Libya is directly comparable to the commitment we made in Iraq. Is that really the best you can do?
Is that truly all you’ve got here?
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
7:55 pm
…………… and this “no boots on the ground” thing is a sick joke.
Of course American military personnel are on the ground:. They were there before the first bomb was dropped ! You have to identify certain targets this way that can’t be identified from the air.
“RET. COL. DAVID HUNT, U.S. ARMY: “Yes, absolutely. You’ve got British service been in there about three weeks ago and actually got captured and released. The French GIGN have been in there and our special forces and our U.S. intelligence operatives and their assets. We do not conduct operations like this, large scale air operations, without people on the ground. They have been very successful, very good, not a lot of contact with the rebels because you don’t know who to talk to. But, yes, we have got intel gathering and rescue guys and special operations guys on the ground, have had them for about 12 days.”
Lil' Barry Bailout
March 28th, 2011
7:56 pm
Who say guys can’t have multiple orgasms? Looks like someone had them at 7:47 and 7:52.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
7:56 pm
I wonder if Khadafy is watching obama or TMZ?
jack bull
March 28th, 2011
7:56 pm
and is he contradicting his stance on Iraq?
oops, he had a skip in his teleprompter.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
7:57 pm
Peadawg, I always assumed you to be a better man than that.
I am disappointed to discover I am wrong. Honestly.
Darfur
March 28th, 2011
7:58 pm
I long to be free. Is history and freedom really on the move in North Africa as you just said? Will I really find a friend in the U.S. as you just now said? Help me.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
7:58 pm
Can that man read a teleprompter or what? He rules!!!
Peadawg
March 28th, 2011
7:59 pm
Jay, lately you’ve gotten worse about how you’ll support Obama in everything he does no matter if it right or wrong. You’ve become as biased as your colleague, Cynthia Tucker. I always assumed you to be a better man than that.
I am disappointed to discover I am wrong. Honestly.
Sasha
March 28th, 2011
7:59 pm
Thank God for our PRESIDENT.
He is so wise.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 28th, 2011
7:59 pm
1811
Isn’t Col. Hunt one of the guys who served in that role in Bosnia?
WOW
March 28th, 2011
7:59 pm
“The degree of US commitment in blood and treasure to Libya is directly comparable to the commitment we made in Iraq. Is that really the best you can do? ‘
We got rid of a brutal dictator who killed thousands of his own people. We paid a high price and Bush won two terms. The surge worked and now we’re better off for it.
I’m very surprised that you continue to make up excuses for the Spectator in Chief. We’re now in a third war and you’re fine with it because Obama is a Democrat.
“Is that truly all you’ve got here?”
Jay, I’ve posted many great points which you choose to ignore. You’ve yet to comment on the fact that GE pays ZERO taxes.
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
8:00 pm
So it’s OK to interfere in another sovereign nations internal issues, so long as U.S. casualties are to be minimized? Is THAT what you’re defending, Jay?
Midori
March 28th, 2011
8:00 pm
Thulsa — each and every one of them.
Where’s Conan when we need him?
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
8:00 pm
Peadawg
Add me to Jay’s column on that one…
Hmmmmmmm
March 28th, 2011
8:00 pm
Such a HYPOCRIT Bookman! let’s just say that this article would have be totally different had a conservative been in office….. What a JOKE your ramblings have become….
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 28th, 2011
8:01 pm
Well, I feel like a guy watching his mother-in-law drive off of a high cliff in his new Ford F-450. I mean, I hate Obama and want him to fail and loose the next election. But like most Conservative Republicans I love war. Long as me and mine ain’t in it and it’s somebody else’s kid getting planted in the ground.
I guess I won’t be listening to the speech. It might could change my mind and I’d end up being called a N-lover at Billy Bob’s and getting shunned at the 4-wheel races and all kinds of nasty stuff. The best way to keep your beleifs pure is not to listen to the other guy. Just call them a wild-eyed librul and refuse to listen to what they have to say. If I do tune in, it will be on Fox News and I’ll have my back turned and my ears stopped up the way I always do when somebody I don’t like or agree with is talking.
Have a good night everybody.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
8:01 pm
Is that truly all you’ve got here?-Jay
Dadnabit Jay. I think you stole that line from me. I demand a royalty payment.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
8:02 pm
The Republican’s, mics off, response is damn, he’s showing himself to be a good leader, unlike what we have to offer or did offer and he fixed the economy too. If he starts getting many more jobs created before the election, we’re screwed. We’ve got work to do.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
8:02 pm
Where was Obama when the Iranian people wanted to rise up against Imonajihad?
Peadawg, Jay is bought and paid for by Obama. He makes up excuses for him and ignores Obama’s lies.
I know that Jay is more concerned about Obamas poll numbers than he is with the Libyan people. If it helps Obama, Jay is ok with it.
Remember, to left wingers, it’s all about poll numbers.
Peadawg
March 28th, 2011
8:02 pm
“So it’s OK to interfere in another sovereign nations internal issues, so long as U.S. casualties are to be minimized?”
From what it sounds like, it’s ok if you’re a Democrat. Right, Jay?
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
8:04 pm
Midori,
The stupid police are knocking on your door now. Run Midori! Run Midori!
Smeat
March 28th, 2011
8:04 pm
Pi$$ Poor speech…
Smeat
March 28th, 2011
8:06 pm
I might have believed him if his suit hadn’t been two sizes too large.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
8:06 pm
Taxpayer,
So a perty speech makes one a good leader? If that were true Obama would be held in the same regard as Winston Churchill. He gives great speeches. Policies? Now that’s a whole other animal- one that Obama has no idea how to tame.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
8:07 pm
I thought the stupid police were at your place, Doom.
Have you been cuffed yet?
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:07 pm
No, hmmmm. My response would not have been different. I was, for example, a strong supporter of the first President Bush in the first Gulf War. It was absolutely necessary, and he did it well, for the most part.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
8:08 pm
I commend our blog host yet again for showing quite the level of restraint. Then again, I don’t have a job to protect. Peadawg, you’re an idiot.
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:09 pm
War Is Bad for Children, Living Things. . . and the Economy
getalife
March 28th, 2011
8:09 pm
Desperately seeking new leaders to step up to public service on NBC.
All the Presidents are there as Kid Rock opens it with “Born free”.
The Egyptians, Libyans, Tunisian, Iranian. etc….. will be free.
Talk about change.
Wow.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:10 pm
It would seem that many people here would rather discuss many things other than whether we were correct to impose a no-fly zone.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
8:11 pm
Midori,
You got em confused my dear. The thought police are at my door. They came to get me for my differing thoughts from what Obama wants us to think.
The stupid police are at your door. They came to get you for obvious reasons.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:12 pm
I suspect that’s because they know Obama is correct, but they simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge such a heretical thing.
rightwi.ngextreme
March 28th, 2011
8:12 pm
i just wish bammy would protect American citizens from mexican drug lords invading our country. put the National Guard on the border.
if he thinks libya has problems, he should call out china….oh wait can’t do that…we are owned by them.
why not provide support to the iranian dissedents? of wait, can’t do that….we can’t impose our will on another country.
maybe he should call out cuba….oh wait can’t do that…..that would be one socialist calling out another one.
there are probably another 30 countires i could mention that meet bammy’s definition of needing to intervene….but they don’t supply oil to europe. see syria on this.
jay, i ask you…..what happened to no blood for oil?????
Yippee
March 28th, 2011
8:12 pm
Spider monkey comes to mind. And her, Chewbacca.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
8:13 pm
Thulsa,
I reckin purdy speeches wit purdy consistent actions does a might to satisfy my yearning for whut I considers a decent leader. Having said that, Obama sure beats any alternatives I’ve seen from the Republicans.
Double Wow
March 28th, 2011
8:13 pm
‘Right, Wow. The degree of US commitment in blood and treasure to Libya is directly comparable to the commitment we made in Iraq. Is that really the best you can do?
Is that truly all you’ve got here?’
So you agree, Jay, that the cause in Iraq was right, just that the cost was too high? Because that is what you are saying. First time I’ve ever heard you say that.
Peadawg
March 28th, 2011
8:13 pm
It would seem that many people here would rather discuss many things other than whether we were correct to stick out nose in other countries’ business when we have so many problems of our own here.
Fixed your typo Jay. And the answer is no.
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
8:14 pm
It seems like many people here are simply fawning over an open-ended, multi-interpretive intervention policy where we can pick our interventions based on whether an unspecified number of non-Americans are in jeopardy so long as we can kick the other country’s a$$ if it isn’t too hard on our service men and women.
have I got that right?
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:14 pm
That’s fine, Peadawg. That’s a legitimate point of view. Now present your argument for that point of view rather than engage in cheap personal insults that belittle your own intelligence and decency.
rightwi.ngextreme
March 28th, 2011
8:15 pm
hey jay….bush got his man taken out in iraq…..bammy says our goal is not to remove gaddafy….so then what’s the point of this operation??
Yippee
March 28th, 2011
8:15 pm
So do we now go to Syria; China; Iran; Yemen; Saudi Arabia; Downtown Atlanta; etc.?
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
8:15 pm
Jay,
In all seriousness it was a good speech and he explained things well. He just better hope we are outta there within a few weeks. If this thing drags on for months its going to really wear on him and his poll #s.
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
8:16 pm
“I suspect that’s because they know Obama is correct, but they simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge such a heretical thing.”
Yes. I’m no Obamista by a long shot, but on this one, just like the earlier Iran one, he got it right, imho. Bringing that certain bloodbath to a halt is in and of itself worthy of some respect…
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:16 pm
Actually, Dave R., yes you do. Nicely done.
And your alternative would be?
Should we start wars in which we accomplish little but at high cost? Is that your preference?
RW-(the original)
March 28th, 2011
8:16 pm
Because contrary to the claims of some, American leadership is not simply a matter of going it alone and bearing all of the burden ourselves
He sho nuff loves those straw men he can build on one screen and tear down on the other.
Hmmmmmmm
March 28th, 2011
8:17 pm
Jay, at least be honest with yourself… But, no worries. It’s people like you and Taxpayer who think this man has fixed the economy…… Yes, We have an actual person who thinks this president has fixed the economy. Congrats Taxpayer…… I guess you can tell the 17 percent who are unemployed not to worry…. Obama will be sending them their check, it’s in the mail, right! Absoulutely unbelievable that some people can breathe and type at the same time….
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
8:17 pm
I’m just not sure about this one. Are we tradding a Mussolini for a Hitler ………. a dictator for an Islamic State that preaches the destruction of this country?
One thing I am sure of, if this were a Republican President the mainstream media and liberals would be doing everything possible to make it negative.
Since it’s a Democrat President they are doing everything to make it positive.
@@
March 28th, 2011
8:19 pm
Once again…Obama says we “can’t always” BUT “we can now”. Those “buts” can be deadly.
Peadawg
March 28th, 2011
8:21 pm
“rather than engage in cheap personal insults that belittle your own intelligence and decency.”
Then you may not want to let my 8:16 go through….it’s my response to TaxPayer calling me an idiot.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:21 pm
DoubleWow, if we could have replaced Saddam at such a cheap price, I would have had no problem with it. He was a very bad man who deserved worse than he got.
But from the very beginning, it was clear that the suggestions we’d be greeted with roses and chocolate were absolute nonsense designed to fool the American people.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 28th, 2011
8:21 pm
I was, for example, a strong supporter of the first President Bush in the first Gulf War. It was absolutely necessary, and he did it well, for the most part.
I’d agree with that, as far as it goes. After the war was over though, factions inside Iraq were encouraged to rise up against Saddam and when they did, they got no help from anyone and got gassed.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:22 pm
already handled that one, Peadawg.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:22 pm
Hillbilly, that’s where the “for the most part” comes in.
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
8:23 pm
“Should we start wars in which we accomplish little but at high cost? Is that your preference?”
No, Jay, we should not start wars, nor interfere in any nation’s progression nor destruction unless their actions DIRECTLY affect our national security.
Iraq II did NOT. Afghanistan did ONLY to destroy the Taliban’s ability to support terrorism. Libya did NOT. Bosnia did NOT. Grenada did NOT.
Shall I go on, or am I abundantly clear and consistent enough for you?
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
8:24 pm
Hillbilly
@ 8:21
That, too.
@@
March 28th, 2011
8:24 pm
If he’s determined to insert “the canceling butts”, here’s what I would like to have heard from Obama.
“It is not a policy of the U.S. to seek and destroy (kill) a brutal tyrant, BUT since it’s cheaper, that’s the way I’m gonna roll on this one.”
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
8:25 pm
Then you may not want to let my 8:16 go through….it’s my response to TaxPayer calling me an idiot.
Even I have lines that I will not cross.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:26 pm
No Dave R. , no further explanation is necessary. There’s clearly a consistent logic through your decisions.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
8:26 pm
“But from the very beginning, it was clear that the suggestions we’d be greeted with roses and chocolate were absolute nonsense designed to fool the American people.”
Obama said that his stimulus package would create shovel ready jobs. Didn’t see anything from you about that.
Bush never said anything about being greeted with roses, but the Iraqis did topple that statue of Saddam. Also, the Iraqis were allowed to vote for the first time. Ever.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
8:26 pm
Josef Nix,
I’ve no problem with what we’re doing. I also wouldn’t have a problem if we closed a couple of bases in Germany and put troops in Darfur to stop the constant slaughter of people there.
And I certainly would have supported an intervention in Rwanda. The world stood by for a full 90 days as a genocide campaign took place and 800,000 Tutsis and Hutu moderates were butchered by machete and hoe wielding mobs. Small numbers of armed troops could have stopped the slaughter easily in every single place since most of the mobs only had machetes and hoes as weapons. Few actually had guns.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
8:31 pm
I am not an Obama supporter as you all know, but I can’t fault him for the way he handled this situation. We can’t solve all the world’s problems but sometimes we can fix some of them. Iraq and Libya for example. I’m not sure we’ll fix much in Afghanistan except killing some taliwhackers.
And why does it fall on the US to always take the lead? Because we can.
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
8:32 pm
Thulsa
I am glad to hear you say that. As for Darfur, things are still bad there, for sure, but somewhat in check due to others handling it…Rwanda is a sin which will haunt us all for all time to come…I would like to think we learned a lesson there…
Disgusted
March 28th, 2011
8:33 pm
What repulses me is the fact that these same Obama critics would have been all over him for cowardice and a lack of leadership had he simply allowed the government loyalists to slaughter the opposition in Libya. Some of these critics had already made such accusations before Obama’s decision to intervene in Libya. The only event that would please them is a replacement of Obama with a conservative who is faithful to their selfish interests. We saw many of their predecessors in the America First movement prior to American involvement in World War II.
Bob
March 28th, 2011
8:34 pm
Jay, you say that it would have been ok to topple Sadaam at a cheap price ? At what price and what is the dollar amount we place on this little odessey ?
Smeat
March 28th, 2011
8:34 pm
It’s not just a No-Fly-Zone.
American Special Forces are on the ground lazing the targets.
This War-Not-War is BullStuff !!
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
8:35 pm
I find it interesting that some of the more critical of the President have come to his defense more forcefully than many of his own minions…just an observation…
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
8:36 pm
Bottom line is that we can’t stop every dictator from being repressive and for abusing its citizenry. But what we should do is step in where its possible and feasible if its a case of genocide or wholesale slaughter of civilians on a mass scale. And that’s all I got to say about dat.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
8:37 pm
Jay: “if we could have replaced Saddam at such a cheap price, I would have had no problem with it. He was a very bad man who deserved worse than he got.”
The price of doing nothing was much greater than the price we paid.
Smeat
March 28th, 2011
8:37 pm
Obama looked like a weakling schoolboy who was giving a terrible book report.
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
8:38 pm
“The only event that would please them is a replacement . . .”
You can stop right there, Disgusted. I’m sold on that thought alone.
@@
March 28th, 2011
8:38 pm
I love what Italy said about their coalition efforts.
“Italian jets operating over Libya on March 22 managed to jam Libyan air defense radar networks without firing a single shot,” according to an Italian Air Force announcement.
Too funny! Translation: “We’re just jammin’ ‘ya up, buddy, not trying to kill you or your supporters.” “Please remember that if you somehow manage to remain in power.”
Hedging their bets.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 28th, 2011
8:39 pm
Thulsa Doom @ 8:36
I’d pretty well agree with that.
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
8:41 pm
Thulsa and Hillbilly
Add me to that column…
Mick
March 28th, 2011
8:44 pm
The president’s libya interdiction; damned if you do, damned if you don’t…
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:45 pm
I can see both sides of this and I can see the “rightness” in the no fly zone. But my experiences in combat makes me very hesitant to want to get into another conflict. We are stretched too thin as it is. If President Obama lets The Europeans do most of the heavy lifting, then I’ll reserve judgement, but so far that doesn’t seem to be happening…
But it’s still my belief that “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent”.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
8:46 pm
“I love what Italy said about their coalition efforts.”
Yea. You can count on the Italians.
Del
March 28th, 2011
8:46 pm
The speech was too long and somewhat rambling in its delivery. Obama looks considerably less presidential than he looked at the beginning of his presidency. Hopefully, Qaddafi will be gone and Libya won’t turn into another Somalia.
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:48 pm
Smeat
March 28th, 2011
8:34 pm
You are correct. There are always spec. ops. on the ground. That’s what they do, and they are good at it. But no regular troops. That is invasion.
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
8:50 pm
Imagine the mind of Sean Hannity right now. He’s dutifully heard the speech and has his story for the night, so the gears in his head start clicking, making his lips move in the predicable patterns with the accompanying gesticulations, hair, and pencil pressed between fingers. Suddenly the scenes start beaming up on that tawdry screen in his mind. But before an actual thought can take hold, the levers go up and the mind is quickly taken over by a more pressing purpose: prop-a-ganda OVERDRIVE. It’s SHOW time at the big FOX propaganda theater.
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:50 pm
War is Unhealthy for Children and Other Living Things
Mick
March 28th, 2011
8:50 pm
The hate obama crowd is in full galvinization mode…makes them feel……superior..
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:51 pm
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
8:50 pm
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
8:51 pm
“Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent”. – Mayor Salvor Hardin (or Issac Asimov)
You Foundationer, you!
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:52 pm
No, Heathen, it wasn’t.
More than 4,000 US lives, tens of thousands of Iraqi lives and roughly a trillion dollars argue otherwise.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
8:52 pm
On the lighter side, Trump released his short form today in preparation for his constitutional run on the White House in 2012.
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:52 pm
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
8:51 pm
You betcha
Del
March 28th, 2011
8:52 pm
Mick,
By no means superior but concerned and wary of a president who clearly lacks confidence, clarity of thought and worse yet competence.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
8:53 pm
Well that’s a matter of opinion, Jay. We have a different vision of the world once Saddam got the weapons he sought.
jm
March 28th, 2011
8:54 pm
Jay, it won’t be cheap if this goes on for 5 years. It’s already cost us a cool $1 Billion or two (admittedly drastically cheaper than Afgh and Iraq).
Who knows.
I’m not saying this was the right or wrong thing to do. However, it is a big distraction from seriously important domestic issues (jobs, the economy, the deficit, the debt, etc etc etc)
Kamchak
March 28th, 2011
8:54 pm
Imagine the mind of Sean Hannity right now.
I would rather not, if it’s all the same to you.
jm
March 28th, 2011
8:55 pm
Smeat 8:34 – that’s true. And there are lot of choppers and A10’s zipping around, which are close air support. There is no such thing as “war light”.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
8:56 pm
**wary of a president who clearly lacks confidence, clarity of thought and worse yet competence.**
Bizarro, exactly the way I felt about the previous president….goes to show you, we’ll survive..
jm
March 28th, 2011
8:57 pm
Incidentally, on the polling, interesting comparison to Afghanistan and Iraq. While 47% or whatever number support Libya, Afgh started with 90%, and Iraq with 60%. This could get ugly quick if we end up with a Mogadishu.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 28th, 2011
8:57 pm
I think Iraq is like many things in history. We’ll have to see what things look like 20-30 years down the road, before we can render a final judgement.
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
8:57 pm
Okay, outta here…
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
8:57 pm
Iwo Jima – 6,821 Americans died in one battle.
MPercy
March 28th, 2011
8:58 pm
“Count me in the 44% of Independents who think the decision by the US and allies for the no-fly zone/air strikes was the right thing. Count me also as one of the 57% of Independents who doesn’t think the US and allies have a clear goal in Libya, or at least not a clear goal that they are expressing publically.”
Me too. It was probably as good a move as could be made. But then again, count me in the percentage who think that, after expressing their staunch opposition to the possibility that then-President Bush might have given any thought to taking it upon himself to attack Iran without seeking Congress’ approval, Mr Obama, Mr Biden, and Mrs Clinton could at least have given Congress a head’s up before the Executive powers were exercised.
That Peace Prize winning Pres. Obama would decide to start us in our third concurrent war, albeit limited to airstrikes so far, without so much as a how-do-you-do to Congress after so much squawking about the Bush Doctrine over the last few years will certainly have to go down among the high ironies of our time. Not to mention the costs that are mounting and the weak-spine we seem to be propping ourselves up with vis-a-vis NATO, the coalition and who’s leading same. Apparently now NATO’s “in charge” but we’re going to continue to the heavy lifting?
There, I got through that without even saying hypocrite once!
AmVet
March 28th, 2011
8:58 pm
U.S. attitudes toward interventions are changing, and probably for the better. But if you have a chance to save thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of lives, and create an opportunity for many thousands more, at relatively tiny risk to yourself, basic decency says you take that chance.
Well summarized sir.
I am not a fan of more US military interventions around the globe.
However, if we can get in, get out, lose NO American lives, and then hand off operations to our allies, I can marginally support the president on this.
I also think that if we do this, it is the very antithesis of a Republican-led military campaign; which is to don’t plan, get in, get stuck in a quagmire, get a whole boatload of GI’s KIA’d needlessly and then spin endlessly about how that is a good thing.
Quit blustering you BHO-hating cons, we all know you voted for those deadly idiots during the Reign of Error…
jm
March 28th, 2011
8:59 pm
BTW. Just of note. Conservatives get hopping mad about $8 Billion on high speed rail. And we can drop a few billion in bombs on a country not in “our vital interest” (to quote gates), and they don’t blink an eye.
Blah.
MPercy
March 28th, 2011
9:00 pm
Oh, is this kinetic military action “on the budget” or “off the budget”? Silly me, Democrats neglected to even put forth a budget last year. It’s all “off the budget” right now!
Rafe Hollister
March 28th, 2011
9:00 pm
Jay, read your headline and heard him speak, but I didn’t get anything new or concrete from his babbling. You must have heard somethings I did not, just more of the same.
What I want to know is “What is the Exit Strategy”. I think W was asked that stupid question a few times, so only fair that Barry has to dodge this question a few times. What is our exit date? When will the troops be home? How many civilians has he killed? Is this a war for Oil?
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:01 pm
Lots of speculation on SOCOM’s involvement in Libya. I’m not so sure, I’m pretty certain we have CIA covert operations on the ground and maybe some Delta and Marine Corps Recon teams on the ground who have done some Sting Ray ops but I think if they were there, excepting CIA, they’ve been extracted by now.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:01 pm
Of note, RE, possible Benghazi slaughter. We’re talking about a city the size of Charleston, SC, not Cairo Egypt or New York City.
It may have been ugly, and maybe it was the right decision, but we’re not saving millions of lives here. Several thousand, maybe tens of thousands of lives, yes. (Of course, hard to know how many folks we’ve evaporated off the face of the planet already in this war, so who knows the net-net).
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:01 pm
awwww
I hurt poor widdle Thula’s feelings
Didn’t Conan behead you? LOL!!!
It completely shows
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:02 pm
Hiroshima – 80,000 Japanese civilians dead in one day.
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
9:03 pm
Hannity starts with a guest (that high priest of hackery, Dick Morris) whose book subtitle is “How to defeat Obama”. Nice pretense to objectivity there from the folks at “Fair and Balanced”.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:03 pm
AmVet 8:58 – I’m sorry, that’s disingenuous. You are among the most rabid anti Iraq, Afghanistan people on here. Now this war is suddenly ok? Huh.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
9:05 pm
And we can drop a few billion in bombs on a country not in “our vital interest” (to quote gates), and they don’t blink an eye.
I heard that was because those cruise missiles had a “use by” date of April 1 stamped on them so it was deemed a matter of use it or lose it anyway. What’s a soldier to do under such circumstances.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:05 pm
Quit blustering you BHO-hating cons, we all know you voted for those deadly idiots during the Reign of Error…
a freaking man, AmVet!!!
they couldn’t drop enough bombs, or yell at/drown out enough opposing voices.
I suppose it’s ok only when their guy does it. And the lies he told to get us there was the cherry on top.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:06 pm
TaxPayer 9:05 –
yeah yeah. yeah right.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 28th, 2011
9:06 pm
Quit blustering you BHO-hating cons, we all know you voted for those deadly idiots during the Reign of Error…
Well, I told Jim Earl they got cameras on us when we’re voting, and this is the proof. Bunch of blabber-mouths at the polls!
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:07 pm
Well. The Liberals have suddenly molted and become Hawks. How interesting.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:07 pm
“I heard that was because those cruise missiles had a “use by” date of April 1 stamped on them so it was deemed a matter of use it or lose it anyway.”
You can’t let that HE sit around too long, it gets unstable.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:07 pm
and the cons have become lying hypocrites. oh, wait….
Normal
March 28th, 2011
9:07 pm
What if they gave a war and nobody came?
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:08 pm
first~!!!
Normal
March 28th, 2011
9:08 pm
Checkin’ out. Y’all have a good night, you hear?
MPercy
March 28th, 2011
9:10 pm
Jay, to be fair the $1T number is the CBO’s estimate for the cost of *both* Iraq and Afghanistan combined and included non-combat elements like veteran’s administration.
Since September 2001, lawmakers have provided
slightly more than $1.1 trillion in budget authority
for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and related
activities. That amount
includes funding for military and diplomatic
operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, and certain other
regions; for some veterans’ benefits and services; and
for related actions of the Department of Justice.
Appropriations specifically designated for those
purposes averaged about $100 billion a year from
2003 through 2006, rose to $171 billion in 2007
and $187 billion in 2008, and then declined to
$155 billion last year. For 2010, the Congress has
appropriated $164 billion for such activities, including
about $34 billion provided in the recently
enacted Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2010.
Funding to date for military operations and other
defense activities totals $999 billion, most of which
has gone to the Department of Defense (DoD).
Lawmakers have also provided $53 billion to train
and equip indigenous security forces in Iraq and
Afghanistan. In addition, $54 billion has been provided
for diplomatic operations and foreign aid to
Iraq, Afghanistan, and other countries that are
assisting the United States in those efforts.
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
9:10 pm
Sen. Lindsay Graham’s lips moving on Piers Morgan right now – and there’s pretty good sense emanating from them.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:10 pm
“Conservatives get hopping mad about $8 Billion on high speed rail.”
How did that HSR work out in the Japanese tsunami? I read three HSR trains completely disappeared.
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:11 pm
jm@9:07-LOL
AmVet
March 28th, 2011
9:11 pm
jm, you ar esorry. But what part of losing NO American lives eludes you?
Is that such a difficult concept to get your mind around?
When Barry gets nearly five thousand GIs killed, tens of thousands more maimed horrifically, spends/wastes a TRILLION dollars, come back and talk to me, otherwise put a NATO sock in it…
You wouldn’t know the word war, if someone stapled it to your ___.
You’re just rying to feel better about voting for Dumb and Dumber in 2000 AND 2004…
kayaker 71
March 28th, 2011
9:13 pm
So now we are supposed to believe that this is all about the Libyan people. If you will remember, the coalition that evolved during the second Gulf War involved the Italians, the Brits, some French and others that received their oil from Libya. They threw their hat into the ring to help us preserve our oil resource and now it is payback time. We would not be there if not for the oil. We would not have invaded Iraq to protect Kuwait if not for the oil. We would not have invaded Iraq for the second time if not to have some balance in the ME and to protect our oil resources. If you don’t believe this just wait until someone tries to take over Saudi Arabia. Then it will be about the Saudi people, their future and protecting their way of life. Oil is the big elephant in the living room. Bozo doesn’t mention it, Gates is mum, most of the media shuns it but it rears it’s ugly head at every opportunity. The European economy, as well as our economy, revolves around oil reserves. Without that, we are toast. So lets fess up, friends, and admit why we are really there.
MPercy
March 28th, 2011
9:15 pm
Going over the text of the speech, I’m fascinated by how much it seems to parallel Bush’s Iraq war speech. Substitute Iraq (and Iraq cities) for Libya, Saddam for Ghadaffi, Bush had UN resolutions and coalition, and the speeches seem pretty much the same. The main difference seems to be that there was an active uprising against Ghadaffi. Oh, and Congressional approval.
RW-(the original)
March 28th, 2011
9:16 pm
I think Iraq is like many things in history. We’ll have to see what things look like 20-30 years down the road, before we can render a final judgement.
Hillbilly D,
I’d agree with that up to a point, but there are also parts we’ll never know. Sanctions were disintegrating and an oil rich Saddam with no sanctions and an appetite for revenge could have wrought destruction the likes of which we’ve never seen. He could also have decided to raise goats in the silence of no longer dealing with a no-fly zone, but I kind of doubt it.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:16 pm
**So lets fess up, friends, and admit why we are really there.**
It’s true, it’s all about the oil…ah, I feel so much better now that ‘ve got that off my chest….
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
9:17 pm
A joke:
An English construction boss is interviewing a Dublin laborer for a building-site job. “But do you have the knowledge, my lad,” asks the Brit sententiously. “Can you tell the difference between a joist and a girder?” “Oh to be sure I have the knowledge, your honour,” replies Patrick, quick as a flash, “for wasn’t it Joist that wrote Ulysses, and Girder who wrote Faust?”
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:17 pm
How did that HSR work out in the Japanese tsunami? I read three HSR trains completely disappeared.
I’m desperately trying to make some sense out of that……..
so, we shouldn’t build high speed trains because a tsunami might take them out???
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
9:18 pm
Two Points:
1) I just saw a tape of Biden from several years ago wherein he states that he is ready to bring impeachment charges against Bush if does not come to Congress for military action authority unless there is a direct threat to the U.S.
Exactly what Obama has done. What hypocrisy.
2) Obama had too much makeup on. He looked like that guy who impersonates him !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3-T7zAKYWM&feature=related
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:18 pm
AmVet 9:11 – did not vote for W in 00 or 04. but believe what you want.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:20 pm
Scout 9:18 – I think that’s why Biden has been completely MIA. My guess is, he completely opposed Libya action.
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:22 pm
MPercy, and for all intents and purposes albeit somewhat restrained, approval from the MSM, which Bush never received.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:22 pm
jm
Libya and iran are two very different animals…c’mon you both know that…
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
9:23 pm
It’s true, it’s all about the oil…ah, I feel so much better now that ‘ve got that off my chest….
Contrary to many of my fellow leftists, I do actually think lives for oil is OK sometimes. Even saving them is.
luangtom
March 28th, 2011
9:23 pm
I find it troublesome that we got involved in Libya due to “human-rights violations” and that it was selectively chosen. Is it a coincidence that our Allies attain OIL from Libya? Why are we not concerned about rights violations in Rwanda, Somalia, Uganda, Venezuela and, hey, how about China and North Korea?
It is a truly great diversion away from domestic problems and policy. I suspect that is just a coincidence, too.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:23 pm
Midori: “I’m desperately trying to make some sense out of that……..
so, we shouldn’t build high speed trains because a tsunami might take them out???”
Substitute nuke plant for HSR.
MPercy
March 28th, 2011
9:25 pm
Obama or Bush?
“In recent days, some governments in the Middle East have been doing their part. They have delivered public and private messages urging the dictator to leave [his country], so that disarmament can proceed peacefully. He has thus far refused.”
Obama or Bush?
“For more than four decades, the…people have been ruled by a tyrant -– [named here]. He has denied his people freedom, exploited their wealth, murdered opponents at home and abroad, and terrorized innocent people around the world.”
Bush or Obama?
“We froze more than $xx billion of [Name]’s regime’s assets. Joining with other nations at the United Nations Security Council, we broadened our sanctions, imposed an arms embargo, and enabled [Name] and those around him to be held accountable for their crimes.
Bush or Obama?
“I went to the U.N. General Assembly and urged the nations of the world to unite and bring an end to this danger.
Obama or Bush?
“Many [country's people] can hear me tonight in a translated radio broadcast, and I have a message for them. If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you. As our coalition takes away their power, we will deliver the food and medicine you need. We will tear down the apparatus of terror and we will help you to build a new [country] that is prosperous and free. The tyrant will soon be gone. The day of your liberation is near.
X5
March 28th, 2011
9:26 pm
We’re losing track of all our different wars so we might as well just attack everyone at this point, starting with the countries who have oil. Canada, they done us wrong by giving safe haven to Vietnam draft dodgers, selling us back out own prescription pharmaceuticals and inflicting Sid Crosby on the Thrashers. Attack! Mexico, you name it – illegal immigrants, the Alamo, the Macarena. Attack, Attack!
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
9:26 pm
Then again, someone that thinks that their actions need to be looked at in the history books before making final judgement could just be inferring that they have already determined that their actions are the right actions and that those critical of their actions are simply unable to see as far into the future, for instance.
AmVet
March 28th, 2011
9:27 pm
jm, my bad. And good for you. Hard to see you as Gore and Kerry kind of guy though! (grin)
Talk about delusional. You cons keep making these inane comparisons between the worst foreign policy blunder in modern American history (hat tip to a real man/Republican – Chuck Hagel, Nebraska) and this?
Really?
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:28 pm
We don’t build HSR’s simply because we just can’t afford to, in case anyone hasn’t understood our 14 Trillion dollar debt.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:28 pm
Sorry but some of you righties have flipped your wig. This military action stands alone, it is nothing even remotely comparable to iraq…
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:29 pm
Sorry Midori, that was a trap. But if the proper engineering controls are not instituted, high speed trains can be very deadly. My point is why, when everyone is asking why the nuke plants weren’t designed against the tsunami, do they not ask the same question about the HSRs, where thousands actually died.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:30 pm
GH – yeah, right.
ok – so we shouldn’t build more nuclear plants because a tsunami might destroy them?
Or how about a high speed train destroying the plant?
Better yet — how about a high speed train riding on a tsunami?
RB from Gwinnett
March 28th, 2011
9:30 pm
“However, we do have a pretty good idea what would have happened without Western intervention, and it wasn’t going to be pretty. ”
Same thing that happened to the Kurds in Iraq perhaps, Jay?
Seriously, if you think there is any more or less case for this attack in Libya than there was in Iraq, you are a pathetically partisan hack.
Why not Darfur? Why not North Korea? etc, etc, etc….
And how is this not the same meddeling in the affairs of the middle east you all accused Bush of?
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:31 pm
**they not ask the same question about the HSRs, where thousands actually died.**
An act of nature can do that to ya….
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
9:31 pm
Why do some feel as though humans are predictable but climate science is beyond our grasp. I, for one, take the contrarian position on that one.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:31 pm
LOL – Yeah, a trap. that’s the ticket. and your’e married to Morgan Fairchild too, right?
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:31 pm
AmVet 9:27 – I did a write in both times. I though Gore was selling out versus who he was, and Kerry I wasn’t a fan of either (for similar reasons, among others).
Over time, I think I’ve given up on politicians actually being themselves, and accepting you have to read between the lines.
The Teleprompter Caliphate of Socialist Union thugs - Bingo!
March 28th, 2011
9:32 pm
Two observations from the speech
Wingnuts, therre’s gonna be a brown family in the White House until 2016, no matter what or how loud you screech. Eat it. Chew on it. Love it.
And, Little Nero with a Cowboy Hat, meet the Woodshed
Michael
March 28th, 2011
9:33 pm
I think of myself as an über-liberal. To me, Obama is so far to the right, there isn’t enough room left for the GOP on the graph. That being said, at this point I have seen Mr. Obama equivocate so often and so variously, I can’t set much store in what he says about our intentions in Libya or in the greater Arab world. Does he actually expect us to believe that, if conditions get bad enough in Syria, which is next to Israel, he won’t intervene? And if we intervene in Syria, what next? Yemen? What next? And all of this set against the backdrop of a country (namely, ours) that is falling apart from within. I suspect there is a real human tragedy in Libya, possibly something approaching the monstrous reign of Idi Amin. I am just not clear that our leaders are looking with adult eyes at the real nature of committing to action in Libya and the corollary lines of action growing out of that.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:33 pm
Del 9:28 – yes, the debts a problem. Depending on how one elected to prioritize our spending, new infrastructure (of all types) is affordable, and dare I say, actually a necessity.
Instead, we elect to spend money on wars and retirees….
Soothsayer
March 28th, 2011
9:34 pm
Friends, you may find this video extremely disturbing. I want to warn in advance it contains graphic footage of people being shot to death. These two men were unarmed and just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong. Again — fair warning.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:35 pm
outta here. cheers folks, we’re on war #3. can’t wait for #4
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:36 pm
jm
One day you will be a retiree, let’s hope the generation after you will actually care about it and not whine and moan about your cost….
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:36 pm
Midori: It was a trap that you fell right into. Very clever, too, I must admit. Just remember that in the 2011 Japanese tsunami, high speed trains killed many more than nuclear power plants.
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:38 pm
“it is nothing even remotely comparable to iraq…”
Correct because in Libya we haven’t really defined what our objectives are and we’ve failed to accept leadership even though we’ve put our thinly stretched military into a leadership role, while our so called coalition partners dance on what they’re prepared to do. Not a lot of leadership from the leader of the free world.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
9:39 pm
“More than 4,000 US lives, tens of thousands of Iraqi lives and roughly a trillion dollars argue otherwise.”
Still cheaper than Obamacare.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:39 pm
Sooth:
A lot less disturbing when a Predator does it from 5000 feet.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:40 pm
r-i-i-i-g-h-t, GH
just keep telling yourself that.
how’s Morgan?
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:41 pm
Defined objective – take out libya’s air power – check….rebels may proceed to do your own thing..
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
9:41 pm
Mick:
In scale you are correct ………. no comparison.
However, in Constitutional authority the question is equal.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:42 pm
Too old. I threw her out for Miley Cirus.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:42 pm
sooth
That’s what happens when you let loose the dogs of war…
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
9:42 pm
Headline: “President Obama said Monday that a U.S. led coalition has staved off a humanitarian disaster at the hands of Col. Moammar Gadhafi.”
Question? Why is he only a Colonel? Did he never promote himself to General?
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:44 pm
**Question? Why is he only a Colonel? Did he never promote himself to General?**
Very astute observation…ever notice the “colonels” mismatched military garb? comical…
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 28th, 2011
9:46 pm
RW @ 9:16
I’m inclined to agree with you from where things stand now. I think there were quite a few things at play, one was getting rid of Saddam, two was setting up a base of operations in the middle of the Mid East, three trying to establish a counter to Iran, drawing the Al-Queda types out of Afghanistan and onto ground that was more favorable to us. From the beginning I thought it was a long gamble and it still is but it still may work in the long run. The big mistake they made, in my opinion, was in going in with less forces than what they needed to maintain things over the long haul.
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
9:46 pm
Potential GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, speaking to Piers Morgan: “We’re protecting China’s oil supply. Haven’t we done enough to help China? They’ve taken our jobs and now we’re protecting their oil supply.”
Sounding like a Patrick Buchanan of our own day.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:48 pm
Question: Who is getting all the iraqi oil?
Jay
March 28th, 2011
9:52 pm
“MPercy, and for all intents and purposes albeit somewhat restrained, approval from the MSM, which Bush never received.”
Really, Del? The MSM was in love with Bush at the time. He was, in the eyes of most in the media, a manly man leading men to do manly things. Chris Matthews was lauding him for how he filled out a flight suit. Don’t try to rewrite history so soon.
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:52 pm
Defined objective? well now the rubber hits the road. a major battle is in the early stages that will probably define how this civil war will be initially determined. Please remember I said “initially.” Coalition forces will need to provide close air support (that, which we do better than any other air force in the world) in support of a rag tag force of rebels who need to take a city away from a well dug in defending force loyal to Qadaffi, in a town loyal to Qadaffi. Will that escalate our involvement? Check???, I’m not so sure.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
9:54 pm
Mick:
I love it when he wears his military cap on top of his “fro” !
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
9:55 pm
Jay:
” Don’t try to rewrite history so soon.”
Media prejudice matters most in the present ………… not the future !
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:58 pm
Jay, please…you’re either attempting to rewrite history yourself or you weren’t around back then, which the latter, of course isn’t true. I know you’re a smart fellow but please don’t give me short shrift for not at least having a little bit of knowledge too.
ODDOWL
March 28th, 2011
10:00 pm
President Barack Obama have sown the seeds of liberty and freedom throughout the islamic world. The antique Dictators are falling like bowling pins. Secular Obamanism democracy is engulfing the whole world. The information superhighway and the blogosphere are the most potent weapons in today’s revolutionary arsenals. All of the oppressed people of the world crave American style democracy. The President has stepped up to the plate and he’ll hit a home run.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:01 pm
All right, take out the Libyan Air Force so that the rebels can keep fighting the army, and prevent a civilian slaughter. But aren’t the rebels themselves civilians? So the Libyan army will still be killing civilians, but it is OK, they are men. No problem for the widows and fatherless children.
RW-(the original)
March 28th, 2011
10:01 pm
Hillbilly D,
There’s something to be said for the fighting on better terrain argument too. Good point.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I guess if Tweety is going to be trotted out as the spokesmodel for the MSM it’s time to start prepping for tomorrow in the forest.
G’night y’all.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
10:06 pm
Midori,
Good grief girl. You actual think your weak posts could hurt my feelings? Your ammo is a little light hunny bunny. I’m firing titan ICBMs at you and you’re shooting back with a peashooter. Give up sweetie. You’re not in any position to match wits with me.
RB from Gwinnett
March 28th, 2011
10:06 pm
“Really, Del? The MSM was in love with Bush at the time”
That lasted about 2 weeks Jay. The first hint of there not being wholesale WMD’s on the shelves of every Bagdad QT and you people turned on Bush like he’d just done your momma.
I swear you’d think a political party full of history majors would know their history a little better than this.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
10:07 pm
That’s fine, Del. I’m quite confident in history’s verdict on that particular point. The MSM, as you call it, was initially 99 percent behind Bush’s invasion and occupation of Iraq. They were thoroughly cowed/convinced. As part of the remaining 1 percent, I recall it quite well.
Your own memory of that period may be clouded by the fact that later, once things took their inevitable turn, beginning say around early 2004, the MSM turned. That’s often how those things happen — at some point, everyone wants to join the parade.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
10:09 pm
Oddowl,
Give credit where credit is due. If anybody had sown seeds of Democracy in the Islamic world it was Bush in Iraq and Afgh. Obama is doing the right thing in my opinion in helping the Libyan people but he is hardly sowing seeds of democracy with a little air support.
cmac22
March 28th, 2011
10:12 pm
About time one of the liberal wags at the ajc actually discussed the illegal action of the prez taking us to war (just basing this on obozo’s 2007 comments!).
Del
March 28th, 2011
10:13 pm
Sorry, Jay…I hesitate to use the word exaggeration, however, I think you do exaggerate the media’s support of GWB back then.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:15 pm
Thulsa….. obama can sow the seeds of Freedom in all the bomb craters. Nitrogen and blood are good fertilizers.
cmac22
March 28th, 2011
10:15 pm
Just glad obozo can take time away from his social calendar & his vacations to address this matter! Now if he could get his moronic vp off the ski slopes in Aspen, he could really make it look like his administration isn’t totally incompetent!
Atlanta 1
March 28th, 2011
10:20 pm
Here is what is pathetic. The attached article was actually ‘part of the lead’ for the AJC online edition. The fact of the matter is that if this had been a Republican, the same writers would have ‘ripped’ the decision and this paper would have printed it. Again – no balance. For the record, I think he made the right decision, though I am not convinced that this revolution will lead us to better and friendlier leadership. Nor am I convinced that Democracy and a friendly government will find it’s way to Egypt. As usual, polictics are in play with the ’side in power’ supporting our Presidents decision and the side out of power trashing the decision and calling it unconstititional. (There is video of VP Biden threatening to impeach President Bush if he went into Iran (not Irag) with congressional approval). The politcs we have to put up with; but it would be nice if the local paper worked to show just a ‘little’ balance.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42314188/ns/politics-white_house
Del
March 28th, 2011
10:24 pm
Enjoy the evening y’all…just about time for Taps.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:24 pm
Help me out, I am not up on Islam. Which side, the loyalists or the rebels, gets the 72 virgins?
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:28 pm
“Which side, the loyalists or the rebels, gets the 72 virgins?”
If you have to ask, you’re out of the loop anyway…so why worry about it? It won’t be you, no matter how much you wish it could be.
md
March 28th, 2011
10:28 pm
“For a relatively small investment — certainly a far smaller investment than an eight-year occupation of Iraq that cost thousands of American lives and a trillion dollars — we are creating the conditions in which Libyans will have a chance — a chance — to create a better future for themselves.”
We are huh??
For starters, I applaud the intervention to stop the assured massacre……..but the rest just makes no sense.
We aren’t out to take out gadafi……but the UN mandate says to protect the people. Well……they need protecting from Gadafi………so where does that leave us……..
I don’t much care for the chasing the tail explanations………if we need to take out Gadafi to rectify the situation and protect the people, then just say so and do it…….
And Jay….using this statement: “Nobody, including Obama, knows what will happen next in Libya.”- contradicts the statement about “small investments”…………I’d be willing to bet the last administration wasn’t planning on 8 years either…………….
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:31 pm
Don’t want all virgins. Mix it up a little , go for some experienced ones. You’re a woman, you know how long it takes to train one.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:33 pm
“You’re a woman, you know how long it takes to train one”
No, sorry I don’t. I never trained one.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:33 pm
Japanese radiation detected in the US. Do all of you have your duct tape and plastic sheeting you were told to buy years ago? And I bet you thought that was stupid advice.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:34 pm
Believe me, some of you are untrainable.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
10:35 pm
Well, md, if you applaud the intervention to halt the assured massacre, where do you go from there?
If you applaud and support that step, you have to be willing to accept what follows. If you are NOT willing to accept what follows, you can’t applaud halting the massacre.
You either intervene, or you don’t. You either set back and let things happen, or you don’t.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:36 pm
“Believe me, some of you are untrainable”
Maybe you’re not a very good teacher
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:39 pm
Dog, let it go, we can take on each other, but no one will win. We will just get bloody, but why.
md
March 28th, 2011
10:40 pm
Well Jay……we are either in or out……..if we are in, do the job that is necessary.
If Qaddafi is the cause of the problems, they is no need for the pc explanations about not removing him.
That is my beef……..Obama has already said it is time for him to go, yet he continues to hem and haw about the mission…….the mission is to protect the people from Qaddafi…………
So just say so and get on with it.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:42 pm
“let it go, we can take on each other, but no one will win”
Your concession is accepted
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:44 pm
“the mission is to protect the people from Qaddafi…………”
And virtually NO ONE has finished that sentence: and to give the people of Libya a chance to decide their OWN fate. It was always an unfair fight. We’ve helped even it up, now it’s up to them to finish the job.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
10:45 pm
Del:
Don’t hesitate to use the word exaggerate. That’s the exact descriptor !
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
10:46 pm
BADA BING:
The problem is we don’t know who the rebels really are.
We may be rooting for VCU and then find out they’re all yankees !
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:47 pm
I want to know what we can do to keep these civil wars going? Our enemies killing each other, does it get any better? This keeps them busy, so they won’t be killing Christians and Jews.
Adam
March 28th, 2011
10:47 pm
Del: I remember the MSM’s coverage of the Iraq war and I can tell you unequivocally that they were BEHIND HIM ALL THE WAY. Even I was swept along for the ride because all I saw on the news and on any shows mentioning the subject was how awesome it was that our fighting power was going in and liberating these people. Do you really not remember this?
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:51 pm
0311…..yes let them kill each other and let Allah sort out the good ones.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
10:58 pm
Bada Bing,
Not sure who would get those 72 virgins. On a more earthly question I saw on Fox news a Muslim woman who claimed to have been raped. According to Islamic law there must be a minimum of 4 males there witnessing the rape for it to have been verified.
Anybody know if there were 4 males there to verify whether or not this alleged rape really took place? Ahhh. The wonderful world of Islam.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
11:01 pm
Thulsa…..yes , she claims she was raped. That’s a stonin’.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:07 pm
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/
Tom Middleton
March 28th, 2011
11:13 pm
When a free people are faced with others in the world trying to be free, then the freedom of any of us becomes the responsibility of all of us ad infinitum. And if our Founders and those who helped them had not felt this way, we would not yet be free ourselves!
md
March 28th, 2011
11:13 pm
“We’ve helped even it up, now it’s up to them to finish the job.”
OK….now finish that sentence as well……..and if they can’t finish the job??
If Qaddafi remains in power, the ‘allies” look weak and silly…………and all is for naught as we are back to square one with a really pissed off Qaddafi……….talking about sowing terrorism……..
The only logical outcome is to allow the rebels to try, but assure it gets done one way or the other.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:16 pm
“then the freedom of any of us becomes the responsibility of all of us ad infinitum”
I would not have used the word “responsibility” – I would have said “concern”, but in the main I agree with you. I just don’t think we have the responsibility to do the freeing for those people. We should be willing to support them, but they must have the will to free themselves – or they will only be exchanging one form of dependency for another.
poison pen
March 28th, 2011
11:18 pm
Doggone, there are unfair fights all over the World, who in the hell said it was for the USA to even it up? Maybe if you enter the service and fight for your country you can feel that way, but a lot of us don’t.
What about all the other countries where Millions have been slaughtered and no one has done squat????
I get it, Obama says it’s ok and his sheep just follow.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:18 pm
“OK….now finish that sentence as well……..and if they can’t finish the job??”
If they can’t finish the job it is not our responsibility to do it for them. I have no problem with assisting them, but I have a serious problem with taking over the job. Just as with OUR revolution – we needed the help of France, but it was not France who freed us.
poison pen
March 28th, 2011
11:20 pm
Jay, who will run this country when it’s all over, please give us a name. I know Johnny Rebel!
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:20 pm
“who in the hell said it was for the USA to even it up?”
who in the hell said it was for France to “even it up” for US?
poison pen
March 28th, 2011
11:23 pm
Why do you want to get involved in this War. We have had thousands of Americans die in France for their freedom, let France and everyone else do it for a change.
Maybe if you have children you can send them.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:25 pm
“let France and everyone else do it for a change.”
Responsibility devolved to NATO on Wednesday, maybe you missed that in the news today?
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
11:27 pm
France? Did someone say FRANCE?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYFxGPkPTyw
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
11:30 pm
“America has played a unique role as an anchor of global security”
Anchor?
“Spear” would have been better but that sounds too warlike.
Or how about “kenetic throwing device”?
Tom Middleton
March 28th, 2011
11:31 pm
Doggone/GA@11:16 pm:“I just don’t think we have the responsibility to do the freeing for those people.”
I was referring to the responsibility of all free people to help, not do it for them, Doggone. To be done right, it must begin with the oppressed themselves, the way it did with our Founders, and the way it’s happening in the Middle East now.
theyeshaveit
March 28th, 2011
11:38 pm
I recall my history lessons said the founders got a lot of help from..guess who…the French. Ironic, isn’t it?
Tom Middleton
March 28th, 2011
11:41 pm
We’re not dictators, or at least we shouldn’t be – ever!
Tom Middleton
March 28th, 2011
11:42 pm
Guess we’re back to calling fried taters French Fries, huh? LOL
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
11:47 pm
During our Revolution here is the very basic breakdown:
1/3 supported the Revolution (but few showed up to actually fight)
1/3 felt strongly both ways
1/3 supported the Crown and supplied Tory Regiments to fight the “Rebels”
If the French hadn’t been there …….. or ………. if Britain hadn’t already been involved in a world war we would have lost big time.
Howevere, since then the French have turned on us many times.
All is not forgiven.
cmac22
March 28th, 2011
11:51 pm
Originally, the obozo administration said we would be in libya for “days, not weeks”.
Well allow me to say it first …… “obozo lied, & soldiers are gonna die” ….
Hows that for originality?!
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
11:52 pm
cmac22 :
Sometimes the truth can’t be avoided !
TAPS !
cmac22
March 28th, 2011
11:52 pm
Also, where is all the outrage & coverage for obozo’s Afghanistan “kill team”?
cmac22
March 28th, 2011
11:53 pm
The truth is easily avoided with this administration!
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
11:53 pm
Pepe le pew say ‘vive le francois’!!!
hsr0601
March 29th, 2011
2:32 am
Tunisia, Egypt, Libya Protests, and the likes, share one thing in common.
It would boil down to unstoppable wave and movement of freedom.
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
5:43 am
“who in the hell said it was for France to “even it up” for US?”
Minor problem, Doggie. Back then, it was a major strategic interest of France to have a weakened England.
Please name a major strategic interest we have in Libya.
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
5:53 am
Or for that matter, a minor one.
ragnar danneskjold
March 29th, 2011
6:52 am
Good morning all. As is my custom I did not the talker in chief, preferring to clip my fingernails instead. I do not judge him by his motives or his words; I judge him by his actions. While I am distressed by the lack of leadership Chauncey has shown on Libya, ultimately he has done the right thing, committing American support to the vision of Sarkozy. So I give him a pass, but no points.
Doggone/GA
March 29th, 2011
6:56 am
“Please name a major strategic interest we have in Libya”
http://dawnwires.com/investment-news/libya-oil-who-buys-how-much-from-libya-italy-leads-the-way/
josef nix
March 29th, 2011
7:07 am
Caught most of the speech on instant replay and listened to a few of the talking heads. He looked like he was still in pain from Sisters Clinton’s and Rice’s one-two to the groin…that’s a good thing! Piers Morgan of the “liberal” CNN seems to be leading the anti-Obama charge and the “light in the loafers Pink Elephant Graham (I can say that, I’m a liberal) coming to his defense…oh, well, we’ll see. Still, though, he made the right decision in my opinion.
So, from the shores of Tripoli to the Road to Damascus…THERE’s one that ought to send the liberal -conservative memo writers and readers into a dither…the feist ain’t barking…hmmmm….
Y’all have a good one and solve the problems of the Middle East…
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
7:11 am
Well done Mr. President, well done indeed.
Real Scooter
March 29th, 2011
7:33 am
I guess now it is ok to bomb other countries as long as it is the guy you voted for giving the orders.Whew!
@@
March 29th, 2011
7:36 am
Michael:
We won’t be going into Syria for reasons that should be obvious but likely aren’t to many.
I will say that Hezbollah has not been keen on Assad for some time now.
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
7:48 am
So, members of Congress are upset b/c Obama didn’t get approval from Congress to get involved. Obama says he did get approval. Someone’s lying……
Are we going to get involved in Syria next? North Korea? Those dictators are killing their people as well.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
7:54 am
From the National Journal….IF you weren’t paying attantion the day this happened….
The Senate unanimously approved a nonbinding resolution on Tuesday calling for the United Nations Security Council to impose a no-fly zone over Libya and urged Libyan leader Muammar el-Qaddafi to resign and allow a peaceful transition to democracy.
The resolution, offered by Sens. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., and Mark Kirk, R-Ill., has no force of law. And its symbolic impact on U.S. posture toward Libya is uncertain. But the resolution puts the full Senate on record behind an aggressive posture and could bolster a growing number of calls for the United States—which has already sent warships carrying hundreds of Marines into the region—or its allies to take limited military steps in support of Libyans seeking to overthrow Qaddafi. Earlier on Tuesday, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told lawmakers that all options to address the Libyan crisis are on the table.
“There is a bipartisan consensus building to provide assistance to liberated areas of Libya and to work with our allies to enforce a no-fly zone,” Kirk said in a statement.
The resolution condemns “gross and systematic violations of human rights, including violent attacks on protesters demanding democratic reforms,” by Qaddafi and urges him to “ensure civilian safety” and “guarantee access to human rights and humanitarian organizations.” It also applauds a move by the U.N. Human Rights Council to recommend Libya’s suspension from the council and calls for the U.N. General Assembly to vote in support of that step.
Menendez has been a staunch critic of Libya’s role in the 1988 bombing of Pam Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, and Scotland’s 2009 release of a Libyan convicted of playing a role in the bombing. Both the resolution and a Menendez statement issued on Tuesday reference Libya’s acceptance of responsibility
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
7:56 am
Obama deception in full bloom. If the European’s were not getting about 90% of Libyan oil, they would not have pushed and the Obamulation would have continued.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
7:58 am
JohnnyReb
Are you admitting Iraq was all about oil and familial revenge?
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
7:58 am
Granny, if that’s from March 1st…then where’d all the impeachment talk come from the Democrats?
So, Granny, would support us doing the same thing we’ve done to Iraq and are doing to Libya…doing the same to Syria and North Korea? Why do we have to police the world when we have problems of our own here? How can you justify getting involved in Libya during times like these when we spend too much already? It’s mind-boggling……
Jay
March 29th, 2011
8:03 am
What do you mean by “all the impeachment talk from Democrats,” Peadawg?
You mean Dennis Kucinich, all by his little lonesome self?
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:03 am
Granny – I’ll admit it’s much easier to be considered “of strategic interest” to the United States with the presence of the bubbling crude.
Joel Edge
March 29th, 2011
8:05 am
I’m sure the Iraqi people wish they had gotten all this good will from the American media during OIF.
Just saying.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:05 am
Peadawg
“Granny, if that’s from March 1st…then where’d all the impeachment talk come from the Democrats?”
Please verify the date and the Senate record if you have doubts as to the National Journals reporting, as far as all that impeachment talk – Are you speaking of Dennis Kucinich? Were you listening to all his impeachment talk during the previous administration?
“So, Granny, would support us doing the same thing we’ve done to Iraq and are doing to Libya…doing the same to Syria and North Korea? Why do we have to police the world when we have problems of our own here? How can you justify getting involved in Libya during times like these when we spend too much already? It’s mind-boggling……”
Same thing? Libya and Iraq? Your premise is fawlty.
Jonas
March 29th, 2011
8:07 am
We can’t secure our own border but we sure as hell can bomb another country. If it wasn’t so sad it would be funny.
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:07 am
“You mean Dennis Kucinich, all by his little lonesome self?” – He wasn’t the only one saying this was unconstitutional. And, Jay…I ask you the same questions I asked Granny.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:08 am
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:03 am
Granny – I’ll admit it’s much easier to be considered “of strategic interest” to the United States with the presence of the bubbling crude.
and have you taken personal responsibility for this by beginning the process of weaning yourself off of fossile fuels? Our family has and it’s not that hard
Jay
March 29th, 2011
8:08 am
Joel, you seem to still believe that the Iraqi people SUPPORTED our invasion of their country.
The American media overwhelmingly did support it; the Iraqi people, not so much.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:08 am
Peadawg
Who else then?
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:10 am
“Same thing? Libya and Iraq? Your premise is fawlty.” – Nice dodge.
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:11 am
No Granny – drill, drill now, even if it’s in Centennial Park!
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:12 am
I have a link ready for ya Granny @ 8:08. Answer my questions and I’ll answer yours.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:13 am
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:10 am
“Same thing? Libya and Iraq? Your premise is fawlty.” – Nice dodge.
nice dodge? fair one indeed. If you think Libya and Iraq are the same I have some property in south GA – with water access – that is just like being at the beach….also with your immediate order I’ll throw in a kinsu knife, a bass-o-matic and a shamwow….AND if you order now I’ll double the order for free just pay extra shipping and handling
The actual “dodge” is creating the false equivalency that is
Libya = Iraq.
Normal
March 29th, 2011
8:14 am
Good morning all…
I think worrying about Syria and North Korea is a little premature but other than that I tend to lean toward Peadawg’s side on this.
It has always seemed to me that if you wanted to entice a nation to become Democratic, instead of pointed a gun at them, you had to present the best possible reason to change and you did that by EXAMPLE. No poor, no sick, total religious freedom, total racial freedom. The right to marry anyone you chose, the ability to find work of your choice….In short the right to the pursuit of happiness.
We aren’t there yet, and considering the divisiveness tearing our Country into partisan pieces, we probably never will.
It’s time to get back to basics. Re-read The Bill Of Rights an Constitution and start practising what they say….especially religious freedom. And yes, that means allowing Mosques in our neighborhoods. Let Muslims hold office. Do you really think the nut job in the thread below is correct? Do you really believe our belief in the Bill Of Rights and Constitution is that weak? I don’t think so.
All that is holding us back is irrational fear…just sayin’
Call it like it is
March 29th, 2011
8:14 am
Ahhh Tuesday Morning, cup of coffee……..hmmm lets read the news, still in Gitmo check, still in Iran check, still in Afghanistan check, now in Libya check, and yes surprise surprise Bookman still thinks Obama is a 100% completely different from Bush, because boots havent hit the ground over there. Would be funny if it wasnt so sad. Our boys will be hitting the sand within 3 months and Obama will have a new spin on it………and yes Jay will support it…..again.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:15 am
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:12 am
I have a link ready for ya Granny @ 8:08. Answer my questions and I’ll answer yours.
a link for me? not one for Jay? mmmmmmmm makes a gal wonder
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:15 am
It’s been quite a sight, watching the Left defend Obama, and it continues here. His arrogance grows. It will be his downfall. I just hope we can survive him.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:18 am
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:15 am
It’s been quite a sight, watching the Left defend Obama, and it continues here. His arrogance grows. It will be his downfall. I just hope we can survive him.
not nearly as entertaining as watching the right meltdown….from WMDs to Mission Accomplished to Mental Recession to
Birthers to tenthers to Tea Partiers….
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:18 am
“I think worrying about Syria and North Korea is a little premature” – Probably but it’s a valid question for Granny and others who support us getting involved in Libya.
Normal
March 29th, 2011
8:19 am
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:15 am
“I just hope we can survive him.”
Like I said, irrational fears…and very melodramatic…
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:21 am
” but other than that I tend to lean toward Peadawg’s side on this.” – Thanks Normal, btw. Atleast there’s one rational Democrat on here.
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
8:21 am
Oh, I see, Doggone. It’s OK to invade a sovereign nation for oil if the least-qualifed Commander in Chief says so, but not if any previous Presidents did.
Got it.
I’d like to welcome all the newest members of the 101st Chairborne to their squadron. You know who you are; just raise your hands if you previously did not support Bush, but voted for Hope & Change.
Your wings are in the mail. You’ll recognize them by the fact that they look the same no matter which way you wear them.
Tools.
Normal
March 29th, 2011
8:22 am
Peadawg @ 0818,
No it’s not. I learned a long time ago you don’t borrow trouble.
Those two countries are not committing genocide and one of them has nuclear weapons. A completely different scenario.
USinUK
March 29th, 2011
8:23 am
“His arrogance grows”
next thing you know, they’ll start calling him “uppity”
hi all! not here for long, just wanted to pop in and say good morning
Doggone/GA
March 29th, 2011
8:23 am
“It has always seemed to me that if you wanted to entice a nation to become Democratic, instead of pointed a gun at them, you had to present the best possible reason to change and you did that by EXAMPLE”
Being an example is not enough when people are held captive by a terrorizing superior force. They need to know that help is available, and they need a trigger to revolt. Tunisia provided the trigger…now we can help. Note, please, that I said “help” – not “do it for them”
Normal
March 29th, 2011
8:23 am
And a grand morning back to you, USinUK…
Finn McCool
March 29th, 2011
8:24 am
At least we didn’t have to watch Boehner sobbing in the background during this speech.
Mick
March 29th, 2011
8:26 am
Good afternoon usinuk….yes normal let’s welcome all to the melodramatic united state of america….home of the brave (I think) and land of the free. (express yourself – absolutely)
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
8:26 am
“Being an example is not enough when people are held captive by a terrorizing superior force.”
Darfur?
Rwanda?
North Korea?
China?
See how open ended this Obama doctrine is? Who can count on our help in the future? Just the little guys whose a$$es we can kick easily?
Call it like it is
March 29th, 2011
8:27 am
Whats even more sad about all of this wonderful support and how non Bush Obama is, is the fact we have no idea what so ever who these libyan rebels are or to what they represent. We already have reports on one commander Abdul Hakim who fought against us in Afghanistan, was detained in Guantanamo and is now one of the rebel leaders. Yet once again this is a great thing. Please Jay spin this one……….
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:27 am
Normal,
http://www.670kboi.com/rssItem.asp?feedid=113&itemid=29649601
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korea-border-guards-kill-five-defectors-to-china-2181890.html
Not genocide, but shooting protesters and defectors is close enough. Seems like a reason, according to Obama last night, to attack…err I mean police.
USinUK
March 29th, 2011
8:28 am
Hi Normal!! how’s my favorite bike-ridin’-ladder-avoidin’ grandpa?
good morning, Mick – hope life in SoBe is good
Jay
March 29th, 2011
8:28 am
Peadawg, it’s been a problem going back at least as far as LBJ’s decision to invade the Dominican Republic, and includes Nixon’s bombing of Cambodia, Reagan’s invasion of Grenada, Bush I’s invasion of Panama and use of troops in Somalia, and Clinton in Bosnia and Kosovo.
You could make a good argument that none of those actions were constitutional, but congressional leaders of both parties understand it would be dangerous to try to tie a president’s hands to that degree. They also don’t know how to write language that would apply wisely to all those situations, having tried and largely failed with the War Powers Act.
So as a result, we have this situation. Note that the complaints from Congress are very muted. I found it telling, for example, that Boehner’s criticism amounts to a claim that Obama isn’t being very clear, although Boehner himself has yet to take a clear position either in support or opposition.
Mick
March 29th, 2011
8:28 am
dave r
You can please some of the people some of the time, but you’ll never please all the people all the time…
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
8:29 am
Mornin’ USinUK!
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:29 am
Just the facts folks. Take off those Liberal blinders. Just because Repubs screw up does not justify Obama.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 29th, 2011
8:29 am
Uhhh Dave, the factors stated by the the President last night were more numerous than the single factor you have stated.
USinUK
March 29th, 2011
8:30 am
“we have no idea what so ever who these libyan rebels are or to what they represent”
so, we should wait until they form a body politic complete with platform before we save them from sniper bullets and bombs?
Mick
March 29th, 2011
8:30 am
usinuk
Life is good, finally got some much needed rain last night and sobe is rockin, can’t find no parkin….
USinUK
March 29th, 2011
8:31 am
top o’ the morning, Dave!
question for the class … are my dogwoods out, yet?
I miss dogwoods and spring in Atlanta (which is easy for me to say as I’m not an allergy sufferer)
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
8:31 am
“You can please some of the people some of the time, but you’ll never please all the people all the time…”
I’m just looking for a shred of consistency from either side, Mick.
USinUK
March 29th, 2011
8:31 am
“is rockin, can’t find no parkin….”
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:31 am
Call it like it is
Abdul Hakim?
Normal
March 29th, 2011
8:32 am
USinUK,
)…plus the fact I don’t remember very well (at least according to my wife). 
Doing great! Did I tell you I’m going to be a Great great Grandpa again? Number three in September! If I told you, please forgive my pride in my pride (
Mick
March 29th, 2011
8:34 am
**I’m just looking for a shred of consistency from either side**
Why dave, who would’ve ever thunk that you possess an iota of an optimistic streak? Strike me down…
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
8:34 am
“Uhhh Dave, the factors stated by the the President last night were more numerous than the single factor you have stated.”
Yeah, Keep. He had a reason sure to please virtually EVERYBODY in some way, shape or form – except for people of principle. Humanitarian mission for the libs (who can say no to THAT?), bombs and action for the right wing hawks, coalitions for those who don’t believe in our nation’s exceptionalism – it had EVERYTHING!
Doggone/GA
March 29th, 2011
8:35 am
“I’m just looking for a shred of consistency from either side, Mick”
Don’t hold your breath waiting, you’re never going to get it…from EITHER side.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:36 am
Normal
Congratulations! A great grandpa!
You are well blessed……
USinUK
March 29th, 2011
8:36 am
Normal – 8:32 – MAZEL TOV!! Congrats!! and HUZZAH!!! wonderful news!
yay, you and all the Norms!!!
Mick
March 29th, 2011
8:38 am
usinuk
I am much better on ice skates, which doesn’t do me any good down here. I still swim in the ocean despite my sharkaphobia.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 29th, 2011
8:38 am
Dave…you almost had it but then you fell over the edge. His statement last night was also consistent with his prior statements.
AmVet
March 29th, 2011
8:39 am
Good morning all.
Things are getting curiouser and curiouser.
Neo-cons and chickenhawks from sea to shining sea pretending to be the reasoned voices of the American anti-war crowd?
What next, the bloodlusters in the lunatic fringe make a run on peace signs? HA!
Duplicitous and transparent – that’s our cons…
USinUK
March 29th, 2011
8:39 am
Mick – I hear ya on the sharkaphobia – I don’t swim where I can’t see what I’m swimming with.
btw … I seem to have missed some kind of major announcement last week … is Paul going somewhere?
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
8:41 am
“His statement last night was also consistent with his prior statements.”
Of course! That’s because he had so many to begin with, Keep.
willie lynch
March 29th, 2011
8:43 am
How is it that America and it’s allies can impose a no fly zone on a country in the midst of a civil war and not have this viewed as an act of war? And who exactly are the Americans helping in this rebel offensive?
If this were America trying to put down an insurrection inside it’s borders and other countries were to do this how would we see it?
To me this action is no different than the overthrow of Mosaddeq in Iran, Allende in Chile, or Lumumba in the Congo, the only difference is this is being done in the open. Libya’s people have a right to fight but they also must win or lose on their own merit unless America wants to once again appear to be the “Great Satan” in North Africa and the Middle East.
Doggone/GA
March 29th, 2011
8:45 am
“Libya’s people have a right to fight but they also must win or lose on their own merit”
Like WE did when we refused assistance from France? (NOT)
USinUK
March 29th, 2011
8:46 am
Doggone – 8:45 – LaFayette is not just a town in NGA
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 29th, 2011
8:46 am
DaveR…you cotinue to post statements without basis as if they were the truth but you have yet to make a claim and prove it. Just unsupported ranting which has become the norm for the right…no matter what its anti-Obama
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
8:49 am
Really, Keep? Prove what I said was without basis.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:49 am
Doggone/GA
Don’t forget Spain and the Dutch….
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
8:50 am
And Doggone? Still waiting for that major stregic reason we are interfering in another country.
Oil was not a good enough reason for you and yours when Bush did it. Why is it OK now?
poison pen
March 29th, 2011
8:50 am
However, if we can get in, get out, lose NO American lives, and then hand off operations to our allies, I can marginally support the president on this
AmVet, please show me just one (1 ) time this has ever happened.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 29th, 2011
8:52 am
DaveR…why dont state your assertion clearly and the basis of proof.
USinUK
March 29th, 2011
8:56 am
“Still waiting for that major stregic reason we are interfering in another country.”
to save people from being killed by their “benevolent leader”???
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
9:05 am
““Still waiting for that major stregic reason we are interfering in another country.”
to save people from being killed by their “benevolent leader”???”
Darfur?
Rwanda?
North Korea?
China?
If that is the reason why you support military action, USinUK, you could at least be consistent.
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
9:06 am
“DaveR…why dont state your assertion clearly and the basis of proof.”
Keep, I state ALL my assertions clearly and with proof. Please specify which one(s) you cannot understand.
Jay
March 29th, 2011
9:06 am
So Dave R., you believe we should intervene everywhere, regardless of cost, or nowhere, regardless of cost. Is that the consistency and principle that you’re looking for?
AmVet
March 29th, 2011
9:06 am
pen, in most respects, Bosnia comes to mind.
American/NATO intervention to end the mass genocide/holocaust was WIDELY supported. And only AFTER UN sanctions and peace talks had not worked.
The Dayton peace accords paved the way for the arrival of a 66,000-strong NATO peacekeeping Implementation Force. The international community establishes a permanent presence in the country through the office of an international peace overseer.
We lost ZERO American lives. (Excluding two pilots who were killed in a training mission accident.)
Numerous leaders were tried and convicted of war crimes by the United Nations.
The warring sides have made apologies and the region is peaceful and stable now.
It was a masterful campaign, that the Republicans still seethe over, amplified by the deadly, bumbling, botched debacle that they foisted on the nation in the last decade…
Call it like it is
March 29th, 2011
9:09 am
“Call it like it is
Abdul Hakim?”
Sorry Granny I completely forgot about your total reliance on Google.
Try Abdul-Hakim-al-Hasadi. That should help you.
Jay
March 29th, 2011
9:10 am
In other words, you have no workable plan, Carlos.
Law enforcement in this country already has its hands full trying to do its current job. Now you want to take them off that duty and assign them the herculean task of finding 10 million people among a population of 300 million, proving they are illegal and shipping them somewhere else.
Donovan
March 29th, 2011
9:12 am
Once again, you liberals kill me. How do you say, hypocrite? Can’t you people be innovative or original in your adjectives? We keep hearing the same sound bytes as, “indiscriminate massacre, slaughter, dictatorial rule by a crazed despot, carnage, a chance to create a better future for themselves, gross and systemic violations of human rights”. Where were you self-righteous crusaders when Saddam Hussein was the poster child for the same above inequities? Oh, that’s right…you were on the other side of the political spectrum denouncing President Bush because he was a Republican. However, here we are in a similar situation with a “crazed despot” and you all want us to engage in military action to help out the poor Islamic people that the Arab Union won’t help out. First of all, your Hope & Change president hasn’t a clue as to foreing policy ideas on the matter. Even the Sec. of Defense said there is no national security interest in the matter. Your community organizer is riding in the back seat of the U.N. bus offering up our military to do the heavy lifting without even an end-game strategy. The “patriotic rebels” are commanded by an idividual who single handedly recruited the second largest amount of jihadists and suicide murderers to fight our troops in Iraq. These Islamic rebels are not only fighting their “crazed despot”, they are also rounding up, torturing, and killing all the black Africans in their country in a systemic cleansing. Hillary Clinton is wearing the pants in this affair because Obama hasn’t a clue as to the prosecution of any exercise in force, other than community activism. We don’t belong there. The idea of planting the seeds of democracy in an Islamic country is a joke. You know it and I know it. These people who follow the tenets and ideology of Islam and Mohammed march to another drum beat. Did Mohammed truly give a rat’s rear about democracy when he plundered and ruled his way through life? So, give up the self-righteous reasons for defending your president and his mishandled foreign policy decision.
USinUK
March 29th, 2011
9:13 am
aaaaand, I gotta go …
have a great day!
willie lynch
March 29th, 2011
9:32 am
@Doggone/GA
March 29th, 2011
8:45 am
Did France know who they were helping? Did the Americans have a delegation to speak for them.
The U.S. guided a sterile overthrow of the Mubarak government. An opposite strategy was employed in Iraq. Which one has cost the U.S. more?
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
9:34 am
“So Dave R., you believe we should intervene everywhere, regardless of cost, or nowhere, regardless of cost. Is that the consistency and principle that you’re looking for?”
Jay, please stop trying to prove that you are an idiot, rgardless of how easy that is. You saw my very clearly stated beliefs last night, and they have not changed. I am merely trying to point out the inconsistencies in others, and am trying to find out just what the limits are of this latest version of the Obama Doctrine from those who agree today with this intervention.
And to reiterate last night’s (and my consistent belief in when we should act, here is last night’s post: “No, Jay, we should not start wars, nor interfere in any nation’s progression nor destruction unless their actions DIRECTLY affect our national security.
Iraq II did NOT. Afghanistan did ONLY to destroy the Taliban’s ability to support terrorism. Libya did NOT. Bosnia did NOT. Grenada did NOT.
Shall I go on, or am I abundantly clear and consistent enough for you?”
TnGelding
March 29th, 2011
9:35 am
But at the risk of creating your own “collateral damage?” That’s the part I don’t like. The bombing is also immoral. That said the mission will succeed, and those of you worried about an exit strategy need not. You have to enter first. This is nothing but a live military training exercise that can be paid for with money allocated for that purpose. Gadhafi is welcome in my home if he just brings a mil of what he has hoarded.
Shmoe
March 29th, 2011
9:37 am
Bush 2 intervened in Iraq – folks called it war for oil
Reagan intervened in Iran – folks called BS on that deal too
Obama intervenes in Libya – not a big deal
Hypocrisy is THICK in here. Foggy…
TnGelding
March 29th, 2011
9:45 am
Reagan intervened in Iran?
Reagan should have taken care of Kadhafi if he was guilty as charged.
Nobody said it wasn’t a big deal. But as long as we continue not to lose any lives and keep the collateral damage to the absolute minimum, many think it was the right thing to do, considering the charges against the madman made 25 years ago.
buck@gon
March 29th, 2011
10:54 am
“To brush aside America’s responsibility as a leader and – more profoundly – our responsibilities to our fellow human beings under such circumstances would have been a betrayal of who we are.”
Jay,
This is the typical flip-flopper, not even the typical Bookman who lies and obfuscates. These stupid words of our dear leader justify military action almost anywhere, including against the New Black Panther party. From the mouth of Obama and echoed by Bookman:
Never thought I’d see it, and I expect now to sell popcorn for conservatives as liberals contort their supposed values to justify whatever the hell their concerns are of the moment. According to the ethics of liberalism we can now attack anyone for almost any arbitrary justification. I do actually sense an Obama doctrine coming out of this: to protect the oil generating capacity of France and Germany and to twist the role of NATO way out of line with its charter. To involve us in a “war of choice” whether or not anyone is a threat to us, as his Robert Gates, SECDEF, clearly said two days ago.
Let’s be honest though. The president got caught flat-footed, letting Hillary run around foggy bottom talking about how awful Ghadafi was. Obama was just packing for Brazil, after having filled-in his brackets and eating frozen pizza, while playing with his Presidential action figures, and getting indigestion when he found out that Hillary was making HIM look like he didn’t care about people somewhere. He wasn’t going to have a slaughter on HIS presidential record, at least not one where there were television cameras already reporting.
So, while he did dither when Ghadafi was vulnerable, when the regime could have actually toppled at a critical point, he wasn’t going to get caught again not being the guy with all the answers and all the right things to say. Or at least, he wasn’t going to miss a chance to say that he had all the right things to say. There is nothing at all regarding foreign policy that isn’t out of place here. Obama has absolutely no interest in making good foreign policy decisions, and he wouldn’t even know how to formulate good policy because he sees his own country as a source of evil greater than most other countries in the world.
Why not prevent slaughters in Indonesia, Nigeria, Sudan (next door), Somalia or Arizona (with the Mexican cartels running around there)?
Answer, because the press doesn’t care about those issues, and so the President doesn’t have to either.
buck@gon
March 29th, 2011
11:01 am
Wow,
I think what you’re seeing is the collapse of the Jay Bookman we all know and love (some of us) or put up with (most of us). The new Bookman is about MY OBAMA, RIGHT OR WRONG. I too am frustrated by all Bookman’s unanswered questions. I’m afraid those questions are just going to fester until your distaste and disgust for Jay will grow.
I am at a loss for explaining why Jay would write such an absurd blog as he did today the failing logic of which clearly undermines the liberal position on US military intervention–hell, let’s just say WAR–around the world. I’d think he would weary of people nailing him in his error. It may be that he posts become fewer and fewer, like Cynthia Tucker’s, who is so restrictive in how one can respond to her, that with her blogs criticism is almost like poking a corpse.
I see no way out for Jay or liberalism, for that matter. Hopefully, this losing of the argument (or abdication) is the beginning of the end for them in a rhetorical sense. In that case, we can clearly expect more direct attacks on indirect issues like “character” or “hypocrisy,” –as if we ought to listen to liars in the first place.
Lil' Barry Bailout
April 1st, 2011
2:26 pm
™