Obama explains limits, goals of Libya policy
Thanks to Western intervention and imposition of a no-fly zone, Libyan rebels who a week ago seemed doomed to indiscriminate massacre by Col. Moammar Gadhafi are now pressing their assault on the town of Sirte, the dictator’s hometown.
In a few minutes, President Obama is scheduled to brief the nation about our goals in implementing the no-fly zone over Libya, and the limits of our commitment there.
There are two ways to discuss the topic, as a matter of foreign policy and as a matter of domestic politics. Let’s deal first with the politics. As a newpoll by the Pew Research Center reports public attitude:
“Nearly half of Americans (47%) say the United States made the right decision in conducting air strikes in Libya while 36% say it was the wrong decision. Fully one-in-six (17%) express no opinion.
On balance, however, the public does not think that the U.S. and its allies have a clear goal in taking military action in Libya. Just 39% say the U.S. and its allies have a clear goal, while 50% say they do not.
Notably, most people do not view the United States as the lead actor in the military operation. Fully 57% say that the United States “is just one of a coalition of countries” involved in the military mission; far fewer (35%) say the United States “is leading the military action.”
There is little indication that views of the Libyan military operation are breaking along political lines. About half of Republicans (54%) and Democrats (49%) say the decision by the U.S. and its allies to launch airstrikes was right. Among independents, 44% see the airstrikes as the right decision, while nearly as many (41%) say they are the wrong decision.”
Nobody, including Obama, knows what will happen next in Libya. That’s why so many of the potential GOP presidential candidates have been so noncommittal about the policy. Nobody, not even the Libyans, have any real idea how this will turn out.
However, we do have a pretty good idea what would have happened without Western intervention, and it wasn’t going to be pretty. Thousands and more likely tens of thousands of Libyans would have slaughtered by their own government for daring to have dreamed of something better than dictatorial rule by a crazed despot. Here at home, many of those now sitting on the fence watching would have been condemning Obama as weak and feckless for standing by while the carnage played out.
I don’t know what the president is going to say, but I do find the conjecture about some kind of “Obama Doctrine” emerging from this incident rather odd. I don’t see a doctrine playing out here; I see a rather simple practical calculus at work: How much can you acccomplish, and at what risk? For a relatively small investment — certainly a far smaller investment than an eight-year occupation of Iraq that cost thousands of American lives and a trillion dollars — we are creating the conditions in which Libyans will have a chance — a chance — to create a better future for themselves.
U.S. attitudes toward interventions are changing, and probably for the better. But if you have a chance to save thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of lives, and create an opportunity for many thousands more, at relatively tiny risk to yourself, basic decency says you take that chance.
– Jay Bookman
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360 comments Add your comment
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:42 pm
sooth
That’s what happens when you let loose the dogs of war…
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
9:42 pm
Headline: “President Obama said Monday that a U.S. led coalition has staved off a humanitarian disaster at the hands of Col. Moammar Gadhafi.”
Question? Why is he only a Colonel? Did he never promote himself to General?
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:44 pm
**Question? Why is he only a Colonel? Did he never promote himself to General?**
Very astute observation…ever notice the “colonels” mismatched military garb? comical…
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 28th, 2011
9:46 pm
RW @ 9:16
I’m inclined to agree with you from where things stand now. I think there were quite a few things at play, one was getting rid of Saddam, two was setting up a base of operations in the middle of the Mid East, three trying to establish a counter to Iran, drawing the Al-Queda types out of Afghanistan and onto ground that was more favorable to us. From the beginning I thought it was a long gamble and it still is but it still may work in the long run. The big mistake they made, in my opinion, was in going in with less forces than what they needed to maintain things over the long haul.
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
9:46 pm
Potential GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, speaking to Piers Morgan: “We’re protecting China’s oil supply. Haven’t we done enough to help China? They’ve taken our jobs and now we’re protecting their oil supply.”
Sounding like a Patrick Buchanan of our own day.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:48 pm
Question: Who is getting all the iraqi oil?
Jay
March 28th, 2011
9:52 pm
“MPercy, and for all intents and purposes albeit somewhat restrained, approval from the MSM, which Bush never received.”
Really, Del? The MSM was in love with Bush at the time. He was, in the eyes of most in the media, a manly man leading men to do manly things. Chris Matthews was lauding him for how he filled out a flight suit. Don’t try to rewrite history so soon.
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:52 pm
Defined objective? well now the rubber hits the road. a major battle is in the early stages that will probably define how this civil war will be initially determined. Please remember I said “initially.” Coalition forces will need to provide close air support (that, which we do better than any other air force in the world) in support of a rag tag force of rebels who need to take a city away from a well dug in defending force loyal to Qadaffi, in a town loyal to Qadaffi. Will that escalate our involvement? Check???, I’m not so sure.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
9:54 pm
Mick:
I love it when he wears his military cap on top of his “fro” !
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
9:55 pm
Jay:
” Don’t try to rewrite history so soon.”
Media prejudice matters most in the present ………… not the future !
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:58 pm
Jay, please…you’re either attempting to rewrite history yourself or you weren’t around back then, which the latter, of course isn’t true. I know you’re a smart fellow but please don’t give me short shrift for not at least having a little bit of knowledge too.
ODDOWL
March 28th, 2011
10:00 pm
President Barack Obama have sown the seeds of liberty and freedom throughout the islamic world. The antique Dictators are falling like bowling pins. Secular Obamanism democracy is engulfing the whole world. The information superhighway and the blogosphere are the most potent weapons in today’s revolutionary arsenals. All of the oppressed people of the world crave American style democracy. The President has stepped up to the plate and he’ll hit a home run.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:01 pm
All right, take out the Libyan Air Force so that the rebels can keep fighting the army, and prevent a civilian slaughter. But aren’t the rebels themselves civilians? So the Libyan army will still be killing civilians, but it is OK, they are men. No problem for the widows and fatherless children.
RW-(the original)
March 28th, 2011
10:01 pm
Hillbilly D,
There’s something to be said for the fighting on better terrain argument too. Good point.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I guess if Tweety is going to be trotted out as the spokesmodel for the MSM it’s time to start prepping for tomorrow in the forest.
G’night y’all.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
10:06 pm
Midori,
Good grief girl. You actual think your weak posts could hurt my feelings? Your ammo is a little light hunny bunny. I’m firing titan ICBMs at you and you’re shooting back with a peashooter. Give up sweetie. You’re not in any position to match wits with me.
RB from Gwinnett
March 28th, 2011
10:06 pm
“Really, Del? The MSM was in love with Bush at the time”
That lasted about 2 weeks Jay. The first hint of there not being wholesale WMD’s on the shelves of every Bagdad QT and you people turned on Bush like he’d just done your momma.
I swear you’d think a political party full of history majors would know their history a little better than this.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
10:07 pm
That’s fine, Del. I’m quite confident in history’s verdict on that particular point. The MSM, as you call it, was initially 99 percent behind Bush’s invasion and occupation of Iraq. They were thoroughly cowed/convinced. As part of the remaining 1 percent, I recall it quite well.
Your own memory of that period may be clouded by the fact that later, once things took their inevitable turn, beginning say around early 2004, the MSM turned. That’s often how those things happen — at some point, everyone wants to join the parade.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
10:09 pm
Oddowl,
Give credit where credit is due. If anybody had sown seeds of Democracy in the Islamic world it was Bush in Iraq and Afgh. Obama is doing the right thing in my opinion in helping the Libyan people but he is hardly sowing seeds of democracy with a little air support.
cmac22
March 28th, 2011
10:12 pm
About time one of the liberal wags at the ajc actually discussed the illegal action of the prez taking us to war (just basing this on obozo’s 2007 comments!).
Del
March 28th, 2011
10:13 pm
Sorry, Jay…I hesitate to use the word exaggeration, however, I think you do exaggerate the media’s support of GWB back then.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:15 pm
Thulsa….. obama can sow the seeds of Freedom in all the bomb craters. Nitrogen and blood are good fertilizers.
cmac22
March 28th, 2011
10:15 pm
Just glad obozo can take time away from his social calendar & his vacations to address this matter! Now if he could get his moronic vp off the ski slopes in Aspen, he could really make it look like his administration isn’t totally incompetent!
Atlanta 1
March 28th, 2011
10:20 pm
Here is what is pathetic. The attached article was actually ‘part of the lead’ for the AJC online edition. The fact of the matter is that if this had been a Republican, the same writers would have ‘ripped’ the decision and this paper would have printed it. Again – no balance. For the record, I think he made the right decision, though I am not convinced that this revolution will lead us to better and friendlier leadership. Nor am I convinced that Democracy and a friendly government will find it’s way to Egypt. As usual, polictics are in play with the ’side in power’ supporting our Presidents decision and the side out of power trashing the decision and calling it unconstititional. (There is video of VP Biden threatening to impeach President Bush if he went into Iran (not Irag) with congressional approval). The politcs we have to put up with; but it would be nice if the local paper worked to show just a ‘little’ balance.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42314188/ns/politics-white_house
Del
March 28th, 2011
10:24 pm
Enjoy the evening y’all…just about time for Taps.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:24 pm
Help me out, I am not up on Islam. Which side, the loyalists or the rebels, gets the 72 virgins?
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:28 pm
“Which side, the loyalists or the rebels, gets the 72 virgins?”
If you have to ask, you’re out of the loop anyway…so why worry about it? It won’t be you, no matter how much you wish it could be.
md
March 28th, 2011
10:28 pm
“For a relatively small investment — certainly a far smaller investment than an eight-year occupation of Iraq that cost thousands of American lives and a trillion dollars — we are creating the conditions in which Libyans will have a chance — a chance — to create a better future for themselves.”
We are huh??
For starters, I applaud the intervention to stop the assured massacre……..but the rest just makes no sense.
We aren’t out to take out gadafi……but the UN mandate says to protect the people. Well……they need protecting from Gadafi………so where does that leave us……..
I don’t much care for the chasing the tail explanations………if we need to take out Gadafi to rectify the situation and protect the people, then just say so and do it…….
And Jay….using this statement: “Nobody, including Obama, knows what will happen next in Libya.”- contradicts the statement about “small investments”…………I’d be willing to bet the last administration wasn’t planning on 8 years either…………….
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:31 pm
Don’t want all virgins. Mix it up a little , go for some experienced ones. You’re a woman, you know how long it takes to train one.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:33 pm
“You’re a woman, you know how long it takes to train one”
No, sorry I don’t. I never trained one.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:33 pm
Japanese radiation detected in the US. Do all of you have your duct tape and plastic sheeting you were told to buy years ago? And I bet you thought that was stupid advice.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:34 pm
Believe me, some of you are untrainable.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
10:35 pm
Well, md, if you applaud the intervention to halt the assured massacre, where do you go from there?
If you applaud and support that step, you have to be willing to accept what follows. If you are NOT willing to accept what follows, you can’t applaud halting the massacre.
You either intervene, or you don’t. You either set back and let things happen, or you don’t.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:36 pm
“Believe me, some of you are untrainable”
Maybe you’re not a very good teacher
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:39 pm
Dog, let it go, we can take on each other, but no one will win. We will just get bloody, but why.
md
March 28th, 2011
10:40 pm
Well Jay……we are either in or out……..if we are in, do the job that is necessary.
If Qaddafi is the cause of the problems, they is no need for the pc explanations about not removing him.
That is my beef……..Obama has already said it is time for him to go, yet he continues to hem and haw about the mission…….the mission is to protect the people from Qaddafi…………
So just say so and get on with it.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:42 pm
“let it go, we can take on each other, but no one will win”
Your concession is accepted
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:44 pm
“the mission is to protect the people from Qaddafi…………”
And virtually NO ONE has finished that sentence: and to give the people of Libya a chance to decide their OWN fate. It was always an unfair fight. We’ve helped even it up, now it’s up to them to finish the job.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
10:45 pm
Del:
Don’t hesitate to use the word exaggerate. That’s the exact descriptor !
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
10:46 pm
BADA BING:
The problem is we don’t know who the rebels really are.
We may be rooting for VCU and then find out they’re all yankees !
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:47 pm
I want to know what we can do to keep these civil wars going? Our enemies killing each other, does it get any better? This keeps them busy, so they won’t be killing Christians and Jews.
Adam
March 28th, 2011
10:47 pm
Del: I remember the MSM’s coverage of the Iraq war and I can tell you unequivocally that they were BEHIND HIM ALL THE WAY. Even I was swept along for the ride because all I saw on the news and on any shows mentioning the subject was how awesome it was that our fighting power was going in and liberating these people. Do you really not remember this?
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
10:51 pm
0311…..yes let them kill each other and let Allah sort out the good ones.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
10:58 pm
Bada Bing,
Not sure who would get those 72 virgins. On a more earthly question I saw on Fox news a Muslim woman who claimed to have been raped. According to Islamic law there must be a minimum of 4 males there witnessing the rape for it to have been verified.
Anybody know if there were 4 males there to verify whether or not this alleged rape really took place? Ahhh. The wonderful world of Islam.
BADA BING
March 28th, 2011
11:01 pm
Thulsa…..yes , she claims she was raped. That’s a stonin’.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:07 pm
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/
Tom Middleton
March 28th, 2011
11:13 pm
When a free people are faced with others in the world trying to be free, then the freedom of any of us becomes the responsibility of all of us ad infinitum. And if our Founders and those who helped them had not felt this way, we would not yet be free ourselves!
md
March 28th, 2011
11:13 pm
“We’ve helped even it up, now it’s up to them to finish the job.”
OK….now finish that sentence as well……..and if they can’t finish the job??
If Qaddafi remains in power, the ‘allies” look weak and silly…………and all is for naught as we are back to square one with a really pissed off Qaddafi……….talking about sowing terrorism……..
The only logical outcome is to allow the rebels to try, but assure it gets done one way or the other.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:16 pm
“then the freedom of any of us becomes the responsibility of all of us ad infinitum”
I would not have used the word “responsibility” – I would have said “concern”, but in the main I agree with you. I just don’t think we have the responsibility to do the freeing for those people. We should be willing to support them, but they must have the will to free themselves – or they will only be exchanging one form of dependency for another.
poison pen
March 28th, 2011
11:18 pm
Doggone, there are unfair fights all over the World, who in the hell said it was for the USA to even it up? Maybe if you enter the service and fight for your country you can feel that way, but a lot of us don’t.
What about all the other countries where Millions have been slaughtered and no one has done squat????
I get it, Obama says it’s ok and his sheep just follow.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:18 pm
“OK….now finish that sentence as well……..and if they can’t finish the job??”
If they can’t finish the job it is not our responsibility to do it for them. I have no problem with assisting them, but I have a serious problem with taking over the job. Just as with OUR revolution – we needed the help of France, but it was not France who freed us.
poison pen
March 28th, 2011
11:20 pm
Jay, who will run this country when it’s all over, please give us a name. I know Johnny Rebel!
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:20 pm
“who in the hell said it was for the USA to even it up?”
who in the hell said it was for France to “even it up” for US?
poison pen
March 28th, 2011
11:23 pm
Why do you want to get involved in this War. We have had thousands of Americans die in France for their freedom, let France and everyone else do it for a change.
Maybe if you have children you can send them.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:25 pm
“let France and everyone else do it for a change.”
Responsibility devolved to NATO on Wednesday, maybe you missed that in the news today?
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
11:27 pm
France? Did someone say FRANCE?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYFxGPkPTyw
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
11:30 pm
“America has played a unique role as an anchor of global security”
Anchor?
“Spear” would have been better but that sounds too warlike.
Or how about “kenetic throwing device”?
Tom Middleton
March 28th, 2011
11:31 pm
Doggone/GA@11:16 pm:“I just don’t think we have the responsibility to do the freeing for those people.”
I was referring to the responsibility of all free people to help, not do it for them, Doggone. To be done right, it must begin with the oppressed themselves, the way it did with our Founders, and the way it’s happening in the Middle East now.
theyeshaveit
March 28th, 2011
11:38 pm
I recall my history lessons said the founders got a lot of help from..guess who…the French. Ironic, isn’t it?
Tom Middleton
March 28th, 2011
11:41 pm
We’re not dictators, or at least we shouldn’t be – ever!
Tom Middleton
March 28th, 2011
11:42 pm
Guess we’re back to calling fried taters French Fries, huh? LOL
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
11:47 pm
During our Revolution here is the very basic breakdown:
1/3 supported the Revolution (but few showed up to actually fight)
1/3 felt strongly both ways
1/3 supported the Crown and supplied Tory Regiments to fight the “Rebels”
If the French hadn’t been there …….. or ………. if Britain hadn’t already been involved in a world war we would have lost big time.
Howevere, since then the French have turned on us many times.
All is not forgiven.
cmac22
March 28th, 2011
11:51 pm
Originally, the obozo administration said we would be in libya for “days, not weeks”.
Well allow me to say it first …… “obozo lied, & soldiers are gonna die” ….
Hows that for originality?!
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
11:52 pm
cmac22 :
Sometimes the truth can’t be avoided !
TAPS !
cmac22
March 28th, 2011
11:52 pm
Also, where is all the outrage & coverage for obozo’s Afghanistan “kill team”?
cmac22
March 28th, 2011
11:53 pm
The truth is easily avoided with this administration!
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
11:53 pm
Pepe le pew say ‘vive le francois’!!!
hsr0601
March 29th, 2011
2:32 am
Tunisia, Egypt, Libya Protests, and the likes, share one thing in common.
It would boil down to unstoppable wave and movement of freedom.
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
5:43 am
“who in the hell said it was for France to “even it up” for US?”
Minor problem, Doggie. Back then, it was a major strategic interest of France to have a weakened England.
Please name a major strategic interest we have in Libya.
Dave R.
March 29th, 2011
5:53 am
Or for that matter, a minor one.
ragnar danneskjold
March 29th, 2011
6:52 am
Good morning all. As is my custom I did not the talker in chief, preferring to clip my fingernails instead. I do not judge him by his motives or his words; I judge him by his actions. While I am distressed by the lack of leadership Chauncey has shown on Libya, ultimately he has done the right thing, committing American support to the vision of Sarkozy. So I give him a pass, but no points.
Doggone/GA
March 29th, 2011
6:56 am
“Please name a major strategic interest we have in Libya”
http://dawnwires.com/investment-news/libya-oil-who-buys-how-much-from-libya-italy-leads-the-way/
josef nix
March 29th, 2011
7:07 am
Caught most of the speech on instant replay and listened to a few of the talking heads. He looked like he was still in pain from Sisters Clinton’s and Rice’s one-two to the groin…that’s a good thing! Piers Morgan of the “liberal” CNN seems to be leading the anti-Obama charge and the “light in the loafers Pink Elephant Graham (I can say that, I’m a liberal) coming to his defense…oh, well, we’ll see. Still, though, he made the right decision in my opinion.
So, from the shores of Tripoli to the Road to Damascus…THERE’s one that ought to send the liberal -conservative memo writers and readers into a dither…the feist ain’t barking…hmmmm….
Y’all have a good one and solve the problems of the Middle East…
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
7:11 am
Well done Mr. President, well done indeed.
Real Scooter
March 29th, 2011
7:33 am
I guess now it is ok to bomb other countries as long as it is the guy you voted for giving the orders.Whew!
@@
March 29th, 2011
7:36 am
Michael:
We won’t be going into Syria for reasons that should be obvious but likely aren’t to many.
I will say that Hezbollah has not been keen on Assad for some time now.
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
7:48 am
So, members of Congress are upset b/c Obama didn’t get approval from Congress to get involved. Obama says he did get approval. Someone’s lying……
Are we going to get involved in Syria next? North Korea? Those dictators are killing their people as well.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
7:54 am
From the National Journal….IF you weren’t paying attantion the day this happened….
The Senate unanimously approved a nonbinding resolution on Tuesday calling for the United Nations Security Council to impose a no-fly zone over Libya and urged Libyan leader Muammar el-Qaddafi to resign and allow a peaceful transition to democracy.
The resolution, offered by Sens. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., and Mark Kirk, R-Ill., has no force of law. And its symbolic impact on U.S. posture toward Libya is uncertain. But the resolution puts the full Senate on record behind an aggressive posture and could bolster a growing number of calls for the United States—which has already sent warships carrying hundreds of Marines into the region—or its allies to take limited military steps in support of Libyans seeking to overthrow Qaddafi. Earlier on Tuesday, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told lawmakers that all options to address the Libyan crisis are on the table.
“There is a bipartisan consensus building to provide assistance to liberated areas of Libya and to work with our allies to enforce a no-fly zone,” Kirk said in a statement.
The resolution condemns “gross and systematic violations of human rights, including violent attacks on protesters demanding democratic reforms,” by Qaddafi and urges him to “ensure civilian safety” and “guarantee access to human rights and humanitarian organizations.” It also applauds a move by the U.N. Human Rights Council to recommend Libya’s suspension from the council and calls for the U.N. General Assembly to vote in support of that step.
Menendez has been a staunch critic of Libya’s role in the 1988 bombing of Pam Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, and Scotland’s 2009 release of a Libyan convicted of playing a role in the bombing. Both the resolution and a Menendez statement issued on Tuesday reference Libya’s acceptance of responsibility
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
7:56 am
Obama deception in full bloom. If the European’s were not getting about 90% of Libyan oil, they would not have pushed and the Obamulation would have continued.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
7:58 am
JohnnyReb
Are you admitting Iraq was all about oil and familial revenge?
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
7:58 am
Granny, if that’s from March 1st…then where’d all the impeachment talk come from the Democrats?
So, Granny, would support us doing the same thing we’ve done to Iraq and are doing to Libya…doing the same to Syria and North Korea? Why do we have to police the world when we have problems of our own here? How can you justify getting involved in Libya during times like these when we spend too much already? It’s mind-boggling……
Jay
March 29th, 2011
8:03 am
What do you mean by “all the impeachment talk from Democrats,” Peadawg?
You mean Dennis Kucinich, all by his little lonesome self?
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:03 am
Granny – I’ll admit it’s much easier to be considered “of strategic interest” to the United States with the presence of the bubbling crude.
Joel Edge
March 29th, 2011
8:05 am
I’m sure the Iraqi people wish they had gotten all this good will from the American media during OIF.
Just saying.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:05 am
Peadawg
“Granny, if that’s from March 1st…then where’d all the impeachment talk come from the Democrats?”
Please verify the date and the Senate record if you have doubts as to the National Journals reporting, as far as all that impeachment talk – Are you speaking of Dennis Kucinich? Were you listening to all his impeachment talk during the previous administration?
“So, Granny, would support us doing the same thing we’ve done to Iraq and are doing to Libya…doing the same to Syria and North Korea? Why do we have to police the world when we have problems of our own here? How can you justify getting involved in Libya during times like these when we spend too much already? It’s mind-boggling……”
Same thing? Libya and Iraq? Your premise is fawlty.
Jonas
March 29th, 2011
8:07 am
We can’t secure our own border but we sure as hell can bomb another country. If it wasn’t so sad it would be funny.
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:07 am
“You mean Dennis Kucinich, all by his little lonesome self?” – He wasn’t the only one saying this was unconstitutional. And, Jay…I ask you the same questions I asked Granny.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:08 am
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:03 am
Granny – I’ll admit it’s much easier to be considered “of strategic interest” to the United States with the presence of the bubbling crude.
and have you taken personal responsibility for this by beginning the process of weaning yourself off of fossile fuels? Our family has and it’s not that hard
Jay
March 29th, 2011
8:08 am
Joel, you seem to still believe that the Iraqi people SUPPORTED our invasion of their country.
The American media overwhelmingly did support it; the Iraqi people, not so much.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:08 am
Peadawg
Who else then?
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:10 am
“Same thing? Libya and Iraq? Your premise is fawlty.” – Nice dodge.
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:11 am
No Granny – drill, drill now, even if it’s in Centennial Park!
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:12 am
I have a link ready for ya Granny @ 8:08. Answer my questions and I’ll answer yours.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:13 am
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:10 am
“Same thing? Libya and Iraq? Your premise is fawlty.” – Nice dodge.
nice dodge? fair one indeed. If you think Libya and Iraq are the same I have some property in south GA – with water access – that is just like being at the beach….also with your immediate order I’ll throw in a kinsu knife, a bass-o-matic and a shamwow….AND if you order now I’ll double the order for free just pay extra shipping and handling
The actual “dodge” is creating the false equivalency that is
Libya = Iraq.
Normal
March 29th, 2011
8:14 am
Good morning all…
I think worrying about Syria and North Korea is a little premature but other than that I tend to lean toward Peadawg’s side on this.
It has always seemed to me that if you wanted to entice a nation to become Democratic, instead of pointed a gun at them, you had to present the best possible reason to change and you did that by EXAMPLE. No poor, no sick, total religious freedom, total racial freedom. The right to marry anyone you chose, the ability to find work of your choice….In short the right to the pursuit of happiness.
We aren’t there yet, and considering the divisiveness tearing our Country into partisan pieces, we probably never will.
It’s time to get back to basics. Re-read The Bill Of Rights an Constitution and start practising what they say….especially religious freedom. And yes, that means allowing Mosques in our neighborhoods. Let Muslims hold office. Do you really think the nut job in the thread below is correct? Do you really believe our belief in the Bill Of Rights and Constitution is that weak? I don’t think so.
All that is holding us back is irrational fear…just sayin’
Call it like it is
March 29th, 2011
8:14 am
Ahhh Tuesday Morning, cup of coffee……..hmmm lets read the news, still in Gitmo check, still in Iran check, still in Afghanistan check, now in Libya check, and yes surprise surprise Bookman still thinks Obama is a 100% completely different from Bush, because boots havent hit the ground over there. Would be funny if it wasnt so sad. Our boys will be hitting the sand within 3 months and Obama will have a new spin on it………and yes Jay will support it…..again.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:15 am
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:12 am
I have a link ready for ya Granny @ 8:08. Answer my questions and I’ll answer yours.
a link for me? not one for Jay? mmmmmmmm makes a gal wonder
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:15 am
It’s been quite a sight, watching the Left defend Obama, and it continues here. His arrogance grows. It will be his downfall. I just hope we can survive him.
Granny Godzilla
March 29th, 2011
8:18 am
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:15 am
It’s been quite a sight, watching the Left defend Obama, and it continues here. His arrogance grows. It will be his downfall. I just hope we can survive him.
not nearly as entertaining as watching the right meltdown….from WMDs to Mission Accomplished to Mental Recession to
Birthers to tenthers to Tea Partiers….
Peadawg
March 29th, 2011
8:18 am
“I think worrying about Syria and North Korea is a little premature” – Probably but it’s a valid question for Granny and others who support us getting involved in Libya.
Normal
March 29th, 2011
8:19 am
JohnnyReb
March 29th, 2011
8:15 am
“I just hope we can survive him.”
Like I said, irrational fears…and very melodramatic…