Obama explains limits, goals of Libya policy
Thanks to Western intervention and imposition of a no-fly zone, Libyan rebels who a week ago seemed doomed to indiscriminate massacre by Col. Moammar Gadhafi are now pressing their assault on the town of Sirte, the dictator’s hometown.
In a few minutes, President Obama is scheduled to brief the nation about our goals in implementing the no-fly zone over Libya, and the limits of our commitment there.
There are two ways to discuss the topic, as a matter of foreign policy and as a matter of domestic politics. Let’s deal first with the politics. As a newpoll by the Pew Research Center reports public attitude:
“Nearly half of Americans (47%) say the United States made the right decision in conducting air strikes in Libya while 36% say it was the wrong decision. Fully one-in-six (17%) express no opinion.
On balance, however, the public does not think that the U.S. and its allies have a clear goal in taking military action in Libya. Just 39% say the U.S. and its allies have a clear goal, while 50% say they do not.
Notably, most people do not view the United States as the lead actor in the military operation. Fully 57% say that the United States “is just one of a coalition of countries” involved in the military mission; far fewer (35%) say the United States “is leading the military action.”
There is little indication that views of the Libyan military operation are breaking along political lines. About half of Republicans (54%) and Democrats (49%) say the decision by the U.S. and its allies to launch airstrikes was right. Among independents, 44% see the airstrikes as the right decision, while nearly as many (41%) say they are the wrong decision.”
Nobody, including Obama, knows what will happen next in Libya. That’s why so many of the potential GOP presidential candidates have been so noncommittal about the policy. Nobody, not even the Libyans, have any real idea how this will turn out.
However, we do have a pretty good idea what would have happened without Western intervention, and it wasn’t going to be pretty. Thousands and more likely tens of thousands of Libyans would have slaughtered by their own government for daring to have dreamed of something better than dictatorial rule by a crazed despot. Here at home, many of those now sitting on the fence watching would have been condemning Obama as weak and feckless for standing by while the carnage played out.
I don’t know what the president is going to say, but I do find the conjecture about some kind of “Obama Doctrine” emerging from this incident rather odd. I don’t see a doctrine playing out here; I see a rather simple practical calculus at work: How much can you acccomplish, and at what risk? For a relatively small investment — certainly a far smaller investment than an eight-year occupation of Iraq that cost thousands of American lives and a trillion dollars — we are creating the conditions in which Libyans will have a chance — a chance — to create a better future for themselves.
U.S. attitudes toward interventions are changing, and probably for the better. But if you have a chance to save thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of lives, and create an opportunity for many thousands more, at relatively tiny risk to yourself, basic decency says you take that chance.
– Jay Bookman
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360 comments Add your comment
Bob
March 28th, 2011
8:34 pm
Jay, you say that it would have been ok to topple Sadaam at a cheap price ? At what price and what is the dollar amount we place on this little odessey ?
Smeat
March 28th, 2011
8:34 pm
It’s not just a No-Fly-Zone.
American Special Forces are on the ground lazing the targets.
This War-Not-War is BullStuff !!
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
8:35 pm
I find it interesting that some of the more critical of the President have come to his defense more forcefully than many of his own minions…just an observation…
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
8:36 pm
Bottom line is that we can’t stop every dictator from being repressive and for abusing its citizenry. But what we should do is step in where its possible and feasible if its a case of genocide or wholesale slaughter of civilians on a mass scale. And that’s all I got to say about dat.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
8:37 pm
Jay: “if we could have replaced Saddam at such a cheap price, I would have had no problem with it. He was a very bad man who deserved worse than he got.”
The price of doing nothing was much greater than the price we paid.
Smeat
March 28th, 2011
8:37 pm
Obama looked like a weakling schoolboy who was giving a terrible book report.
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
8:38 pm
“The only event that would please them is a replacement . . .”
You can stop right there, Disgusted. I’m sold on that thought alone.
@@
March 28th, 2011
8:38 pm
I love what Italy said about their coalition efforts.
“Italian jets operating over Libya on March 22 managed to jam Libyan air defense radar networks without firing a single shot,” according to an Italian Air Force announcement.
Too funny! Translation: “We’re just jammin’ ‘ya up, buddy, not trying to kill you or your supporters.” “Please remember that if you somehow manage to remain in power.”
Hedging their bets.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 28th, 2011
8:39 pm
Thulsa Doom @ 8:36
I’d pretty well agree with that.
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
8:41 pm
Thulsa and Hillbilly
Add me to that column…
Mick
March 28th, 2011
8:44 pm
The president’s libya interdiction; damned if you do, damned if you don’t…
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:45 pm
I can see both sides of this and I can see the “rightness” in the no fly zone. But my experiences in combat makes me very hesitant to want to get into another conflict. We are stretched too thin as it is. If President Obama lets The Europeans do most of the heavy lifting, then I’ll reserve judgement, but so far that doesn’t seem to be happening…
But it’s still my belief that “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent”.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
8:46 pm
“I love what Italy said about their coalition efforts.”
Yea. You can count on the Italians.
Del
March 28th, 2011
8:46 pm
The speech was too long and somewhat rambling in its delivery. Obama looks considerably less presidential than he looked at the beginning of his presidency. Hopefully, Qaddafi will be gone and Libya won’t turn into another Somalia.
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:48 pm
Smeat
March 28th, 2011
8:34 pm
You are correct. There are always spec. ops. on the ground. That’s what they do, and they are good at it. But no regular troops. That is invasion.
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
8:50 pm
Imagine the mind of Sean Hannity right now. He’s dutifully heard the speech and has his story for the night, so the gears in his head start clicking, making his lips move in the predicable patterns with the accompanying gesticulations, hair, and pencil pressed between fingers. Suddenly the scenes start beaming up on that tawdry screen in his mind. But before an actual thought can take hold, the levers go up and the mind is quickly taken over by a more pressing purpose: prop-a-ganda OVERDRIVE. It’s SHOW time at the big FOX propaganda theater.
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:50 pm
War is Unhealthy for Children and Other Living Things
Mick
March 28th, 2011
8:50 pm
The hate obama crowd is in full galvinization mode…makes them feel……superior..
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:51 pm
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
8:50 pm
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
8:51 pm
“Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent”. – Mayor Salvor Hardin (or Issac Asimov)
You Foundationer, you!
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:52 pm
No, Heathen, it wasn’t.
More than 4,000 US lives, tens of thousands of Iraqi lives and roughly a trillion dollars argue otherwise.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
8:52 pm
On the lighter side, Trump released his short form today in preparation for his constitutional run on the White House in 2012.
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:52 pm
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
8:51 pm
You betcha
Del
March 28th, 2011
8:52 pm
Mick,
By no means superior but concerned and wary of a president who clearly lacks confidence, clarity of thought and worse yet competence.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
8:53 pm
Well that’s a matter of opinion, Jay. We have a different vision of the world once Saddam got the weapons he sought.
jm
March 28th, 2011
8:54 pm
Jay, it won’t be cheap if this goes on for 5 years. It’s already cost us a cool $1 Billion or two (admittedly drastically cheaper than Afgh and Iraq).
Who knows.
I’m not saying this was the right or wrong thing to do. However, it is a big distraction from seriously important domestic issues (jobs, the economy, the deficit, the debt, etc etc etc)
Kamchak
March 28th, 2011
8:54 pm
Imagine the mind of Sean Hannity right now.
I would rather not, if it’s all the same to you.
jm
March 28th, 2011
8:55 pm
Smeat 8:34 – that’s true. And there are lot of choppers and A10’s zipping around, which are close air support. There is no such thing as “war light”.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
8:56 pm
**wary of a president who clearly lacks confidence, clarity of thought and worse yet competence.**
Bizarro, exactly the way I felt about the previous president….goes to show you, we’ll survive..
jm
March 28th, 2011
8:57 pm
Incidentally, on the polling, interesting comparison to Afghanistan and Iraq. While 47% or whatever number support Libya, Afgh started with 90%, and Iraq with 60%. This could get ugly quick if we end up with a Mogadishu.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 28th, 2011
8:57 pm
I think Iraq is like many things in history. We’ll have to see what things look like 20-30 years down the road, before we can render a final judgement.
josef nix
March 28th, 2011
8:57 pm
Okay, outta here…
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
8:57 pm
Iwo Jima – 6,821 Americans died in one battle.
MPercy
March 28th, 2011
8:58 pm
“Count me in the 44% of Independents who think the decision by the US and allies for the no-fly zone/air strikes was the right thing. Count me also as one of the 57% of Independents who doesn’t think the US and allies have a clear goal in Libya, or at least not a clear goal that they are expressing publically.”
Me too. It was probably as good a move as could be made. But then again, count me in the percentage who think that, after expressing their staunch opposition to the possibility that then-President Bush might have given any thought to taking it upon himself to attack Iran without seeking Congress’ approval, Mr Obama, Mr Biden, and Mrs Clinton could at least have given Congress a head’s up before the Executive powers were exercised.
That Peace Prize winning Pres. Obama would decide to start us in our third concurrent war, albeit limited to airstrikes so far, without so much as a how-do-you-do to Congress after so much squawking about the Bush Doctrine over the last few years will certainly have to go down among the high ironies of our time. Not to mention the costs that are mounting and the weak-spine we seem to be propping ourselves up with vis-a-vis NATO, the coalition and who’s leading same. Apparently now NATO’s “in charge” but we’re going to continue to the heavy lifting?
There, I got through that without even saying hypocrite once!
AmVet
March 28th, 2011
8:58 pm
U.S. attitudes toward interventions are changing, and probably for the better. But if you have a chance to save thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of lives, and create an opportunity for many thousands more, at relatively tiny risk to yourself, basic decency says you take that chance.
Well summarized sir.
I am not a fan of more US military interventions around the globe.
However, if we can get in, get out, lose NO American lives, and then hand off operations to our allies, I can marginally support the president on this.
I also think that if we do this, it is the very antithesis of a Republican-led military campaign; which is to don’t plan, get in, get stuck in a quagmire, get a whole boatload of GI’s KIA’d needlessly and then spin endlessly about how that is a good thing.
Quit blustering you BHO-hating cons, we all know you voted for those deadly idiots during the Reign of Error…
jm
March 28th, 2011
8:59 pm
BTW. Just of note. Conservatives get hopping mad about $8 Billion on high speed rail. And we can drop a few billion in bombs on a country not in “our vital interest” (to quote gates), and they don’t blink an eye.
Blah.
MPercy
March 28th, 2011
9:00 pm
Oh, is this kinetic military action “on the budget” or “off the budget”? Silly me, Democrats neglected to even put forth a budget last year. It’s all “off the budget” right now!
Rafe Hollister
March 28th, 2011
9:00 pm
Jay, read your headline and heard him speak, but I didn’t get anything new or concrete from his babbling. You must have heard somethings I did not, just more of the same.
What I want to know is “What is the Exit Strategy”. I think W was asked that stupid question a few times, so only fair that Barry has to dodge this question a few times. What is our exit date? When will the troops be home? How many civilians has he killed? Is this a war for Oil?
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:01 pm
Lots of speculation on SOCOM’s involvement in Libya. I’m not so sure, I’m pretty certain we have CIA covert operations on the ground and maybe some Delta and Marine Corps Recon teams on the ground who have done some Sting Ray ops but I think if they were there, excepting CIA, they’ve been extracted by now.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:01 pm
Of note, RE, possible Benghazi slaughter. We’re talking about a city the size of Charleston, SC, not Cairo Egypt or New York City.
It may have been ugly, and maybe it was the right decision, but we’re not saving millions of lives here. Several thousand, maybe tens of thousands of lives, yes. (Of course, hard to know how many folks we’ve evaporated off the face of the planet already in this war, so who knows the net-net).
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:01 pm
awwww
I hurt poor widdle Thula’s feelings
Didn’t Conan behead you? LOL!!!
It completely shows
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:02 pm
Hiroshima – 80,000 Japanese civilians dead in one day.
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
9:03 pm
Hannity starts with a guest (that high priest of hackery, Dick Morris) whose book subtitle is “How to defeat Obama”. Nice pretense to objectivity there from the folks at “Fair and Balanced”.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:03 pm
AmVet 8:58 – I’m sorry, that’s disingenuous. You are among the most rabid anti Iraq, Afghanistan people on here. Now this war is suddenly ok? Huh.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
9:05 pm
And we can drop a few billion in bombs on a country not in “our vital interest” (to quote gates), and they don’t blink an eye.
I heard that was because those cruise missiles had a “use by” date of April 1 stamped on them so it was deemed a matter of use it or lose it anyway. What’s a soldier to do under such circumstances.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:05 pm
Quit blustering you BHO-hating cons, we all know you voted for those deadly idiots during the Reign of Error…
a freaking man, AmVet!!!
they couldn’t drop enough bombs, or yell at/drown out enough opposing voices.
I suppose it’s ok only when their guy does it. And the lies he told to get us there was the cherry on top.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:06 pm
TaxPayer 9:05 –
yeah yeah. yeah right.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 28th, 2011
9:06 pm
Quit blustering you BHO-hating cons, we all know you voted for those deadly idiots during the Reign of Error…
Well, I told Jim Earl they got cameras on us when we’re voting, and this is the proof. Bunch of blabber-mouths at the polls!
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:07 pm
Well. The Liberals have suddenly molted and become Hawks. How interesting.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:07 pm
“I heard that was because those cruise missiles had a “use by” date of April 1 stamped on them so it was deemed a matter of use it or lose it anyway.”
You can’t let that HE sit around too long, it gets unstable.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:07 pm
and the cons have become lying hypocrites. oh, wait….
Normal
March 28th, 2011
9:07 pm
What if they gave a war and nobody came?
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:08 pm
first~!!!
Normal
March 28th, 2011
9:08 pm
Checkin’ out. Y’all have a good night, you hear?
MPercy
March 28th, 2011
9:10 pm
Jay, to be fair the $1T number is the CBO’s estimate for the cost of *both* Iraq and Afghanistan combined and included non-combat elements like veteran’s administration.
Since September 2001, lawmakers have provided
slightly more than $1.1 trillion in budget authority
for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and related
activities. That amount
includes funding for military and diplomatic
operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, and certain other
regions; for some veterans’ benefits and services; and
for related actions of the Department of Justice.
Appropriations specifically designated for those
purposes averaged about $100 billion a year from
2003 through 2006, rose to $171 billion in 2007
and $187 billion in 2008, and then declined to
$155 billion last year. For 2010, the Congress has
appropriated $164 billion for such activities, including
about $34 billion provided in the recently
enacted Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2010.
Funding to date for military operations and other
defense activities totals $999 billion, most of which
has gone to the Department of Defense (DoD).
Lawmakers have also provided $53 billion to train
and equip indigenous security forces in Iraq and
Afghanistan. In addition, $54 billion has been provided
for diplomatic operations and foreign aid to
Iraq, Afghanistan, and other countries that are
assisting the United States in those efforts.
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
9:10 pm
Sen. Lindsay Graham’s lips moving on Piers Morgan right now – and there’s pretty good sense emanating from them.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:10 pm
“Conservatives get hopping mad about $8 Billion on high speed rail.”
How did that HSR work out in the Japanese tsunami? I read three HSR trains completely disappeared.
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:11 pm
jm@9:07-LOL
AmVet
March 28th, 2011
9:11 pm
jm, you ar esorry. But what part of losing NO American lives eludes you?
Is that such a difficult concept to get your mind around?
When Barry gets nearly five thousand GIs killed, tens of thousands more maimed horrifically, spends/wastes a TRILLION dollars, come back and talk to me, otherwise put a NATO sock in it…
You wouldn’t know the word war, if someone stapled it to your ___.
You’re just rying to feel better about voting for Dumb and Dumber in 2000 AND 2004…
kayaker 71
March 28th, 2011
9:13 pm
So now we are supposed to believe that this is all about the Libyan people. If you will remember, the coalition that evolved during the second Gulf War involved the Italians, the Brits, some French and others that received their oil from Libya. They threw their hat into the ring to help us preserve our oil resource and now it is payback time. We would not be there if not for the oil. We would not have invaded Iraq to protect Kuwait if not for the oil. We would not have invaded Iraq for the second time if not to have some balance in the ME and to protect our oil resources. If you don’t believe this just wait until someone tries to take over Saudi Arabia. Then it will be about the Saudi people, their future and protecting their way of life. Oil is the big elephant in the living room. Bozo doesn’t mention it, Gates is mum, most of the media shuns it but it rears it’s ugly head at every opportunity. The European economy, as well as our economy, revolves around oil reserves. Without that, we are toast. So lets fess up, friends, and admit why we are really there.
MPercy
March 28th, 2011
9:15 pm
Going over the text of the speech, I’m fascinated by how much it seems to parallel Bush’s Iraq war speech. Substitute Iraq (and Iraq cities) for Libya, Saddam for Ghadaffi, Bush had UN resolutions and coalition, and the speeches seem pretty much the same. The main difference seems to be that there was an active uprising against Ghadaffi. Oh, and Congressional approval.
RW-(the original)
March 28th, 2011
9:16 pm
I think Iraq is like many things in history. We’ll have to see what things look like 20-30 years down the road, before we can render a final judgement.
Hillbilly D,
I’d agree with that up to a point, but there are also parts we’ll never know. Sanctions were disintegrating and an oil rich Saddam with no sanctions and an appetite for revenge could have wrought destruction the likes of which we’ve never seen. He could also have decided to raise goats in the silence of no longer dealing with a no-fly zone, but I kind of doubt it.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:16 pm
**So lets fess up, friends, and admit why we are really there.**
It’s true, it’s all about the oil…ah, I feel so much better now that ‘ve got that off my chest….
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
9:17 pm
A joke:
An English construction boss is interviewing a Dublin laborer for a building-site job. “But do you have the knowledge, my lad,” asks the Brit sententiously. “Can you tell the difference between a joist and a girder?” “Oh to be sure I have the knowledge, your honour,” replies Patrick, quick as a flash, “for wasn’t it Joist that wrote Ulysses, and Girder who wrote Faust?”
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:17 pm
How did that HSR work out in the Japanese tsunami? I read three HSR trains completely disappeared.
I’m desperately trying to make some sense out of that……..
so, we shouldn’t build high speed trains because a tsunami might take them out???
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
9:18 pm
Two Points:
1) I just saw a tape of Biden from several years ago wherein he states that he is ready to bring impeachment charges against Bush if does not come to Congress for military action authority unless there is a direct threat to the U.S.
Exactly what Obama has done. What hypocrisy.
2) Obama had too much makeup on. He looked like that guy who impersonates him !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3-T7zAKYWM&feature=related
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:18 pm
AmVet 9:11 – did not vote for W in 00 or 04. but believe what you want.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:20 pm
Scout 9:18 – I think that’s why Biden has been completely MIA. My guess is, he completely opposed Libya action.
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:22 pm
MPercy, and for all intents and purposes albeit somewhat restrained, approval from the MSM, which Bush never received.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:22 pm
jm
Libya and iran are two very different animals…c’mon you both know that…
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
9:23 pm
It’s true, it’s all about the oil…ah, I feel so much better now that ‘ve got that off my chest….
Contrary to many of my fellow leftists, I do actually think lives for oil is OK sometimes. Even saving them is.
luangtom
March 28th, 2011
9:23 pm
I find it troublesome that we got involved in Libya due to “human-rights violations” and that it was selectively chosen. Is it a coincidence that our Allies attain OIL from Libya? Why are we not concerned about rights violations in Rwanda, Somalia, Uganda, Venezuela and, hey, how about China and North Korea?
It is a truly great diversion away from domestic problems and policy. I suspect that is just a coincidence, too.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:23 pm
Midori: “I’m desperately trying to make some sense out of that……..
so, we shouldn’t build high speed trains because a tsunami might take them out???”
Substitute nuke plant for HSR.
MPercy
March 28th, 2011
9:25 pm
Obama or Bush?
“In recent days, some governments in the Middle East have been doing their part. They have delivered public and private messages urging the dictator to leave [his country], so that disarmament can proceed peacefully. He has thus far refused.”
Obama or Bush?
“For more than four decades, the…people have been ruled by a tyrant -– [named here]. He has denied his people freedom, exploited their wealth, murdered opponents at home and abroad, and terrorized innocent people around the world.”
Bush or Obama?
“We froze more than $xx billion of [Name]’s regime’s assets. Joining with other nations at the United Nations Security Council, we broadened our sanctions, imposed an arms embargo, and enabled [Name] and those around him to be held accountable for their crimes.
Bush or Obama?
“I went to the U.N. General Assembly and urged the nations of the world to unite and bring an end to this danger.
Obama or Bush?
“Many [country's people] can hear me tonight in a translated radio broadcast, and I have a message for them. If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you. As our coalition takes away their power, we will deliver the food and medicine you need. We will tear down the apparatus of terror and we will help you to build a new [country] that is prosperous and free. The tyrant will soon be gone. The day of your liberation is near.
X5
March 28th, 2011
9:26 pm
We’re losing track of all our different wars so we might as well just attack everyone at this point, starting with the countries who have oil. Canada, they done us wrong by giving safe haven to Vietnam draft dodgers, selling us back out own prescription pharmaceuticals and inflicting Sid Crosby on the Thrashers. Attack! Mexico, you name it – illegal immigrants, the Alamo, the Macarena. Attack, Attack!
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
9:26 pm
Then again, someone that thinks that their actions need to be looked at in the history books before making final judgement could just be inferring that they have already determined that their actions are the right actions and that those critical of their actions are simply unable to see as far into the future, for instance.
AmVet
March 28th, 2011
9:27 pm
jm, my bad. And good for you. Hard to see you as Gore and Kerry kind of guy though! (grin)
Talk about delusional. You cons keep making these inane comparisons between the worst foreign policy blunder in modern American history (hat tip to a real man/Republican – Chuck Hagel, Nebraska) and this?
Really?
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:28 pm
We don’t build HSR’s simply because we just can’t afford to, in case anyone hasn’t understood our 14 Trillion dollar debt.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:28 pm
Sorry but some of you righties have flipped your wig. This military action stands alone, it is nothing even remotely comparable to iraq…
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:29 pm
Sorry Midori, that was a trap. But if the proper engineering controls are not instituted, high speed trains can be very deadly. My point is why, when everyone is asking why the nuke plants weren’t designed against the tsunami, do they not ask the same question about the HSRs, where thousands actually died.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:30 pm
GH – yeah, right.
ok – so we shouldn’t build more nuclear plants because a tsunami might destroy them?
Or how about a high speed train destroying the plant?
Better yet — how about a high speed train riding on a tsunami?
RB from Gwinnett
March 28th, 2011
9:30 pm
“However, we do have a pretty good idea what would have happened without Western intervention, and it wasn’t going to be pretty. ”
Same thing that happened to the Kurds in Iraq perhaps, Jay?
Seriously, if you think there is any more or less case for this attack in Libya than there was in Iraq, you are a pathetically partisan hack.
Why not Darfur? Why not North Korea? etc, etc, etc….
And how is this not the same meddeling in the affairs of the middle east you all accused Bush of?
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:31 pm
**they not ask the same question about the HSRs, where thousands actually died.**
An act of nature can do that to ya….
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
9:31 pm
Why do some feel as though humans are predictable but climate science is beyond our grasp. I, for one, take the contrarian position on that one.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:31 pm
LOL – Yeah, a trap. that’s the ticket. and your’e married to Morgan Fairchild too, right?
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:31 pm
AmVet 9:27 – I did a write in both times. I though Gore was selling out versus who he was, and Kerry I wasn’t a fan of either (for similar reasons, among others).
Over time, I think I’ve given up on politicians actually being themselves, and accepting you have to read between the lines.
The Teleprompter Caliphate of Socialist Union thugs - Bingo!
March 28th, 2011
9:32 pm
Two observations from the speech
Wingnuts, therre’s gonna be a brown family in the White House until 2016, no matter what or how loud you screech. Eat it. Chew on it. Love it.
And, Little Nero with a Cowboy Hat, meet the Woodshed
Michael
March 28th, 2011
9:33 pm
I think of myself as an über-liberal. To me, Obama is so far to the right, there isn’t enough room left for the GOP on the graph. That being said, at this point I have seen Mr. Obama equivocate so often and so variously, I can’t set much store in what he says about our intentions in Libya or in the greater Arab world. Does he actually expect us to believe that, if conditions get bad enough in Syria, which is next to Israel, he won’t intervene? And if we intervene in Syria, what next? Yemen? What next? And all of this set against the backdrop of a country (namely, ours) that is falling apart from within. I suspect there is a real human tragedy in Libya, possibly something approaching the monstrous reign of Idi Amin. I am just not clear that our leaders are looking with adult eyes at the real nature of committing to action in Libya and the corollary lines of action growing out of that.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:33 pm
Del 9:28 – yes, the debts a problem. Depending on how one elected to prioritize our spending, new infrastructure (of all types) is affordable, and dare I say, actually a necessity.
Instead, we elect to spend money on wars and retirees….
Soothsayer
March 28th, 2011
9:34 pm
Friends, you may find this video extremely disturbing. I want to warn in advance it contains graphic footage of people being shot to death. These two men were unarmed and just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong. Again — fair warning.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:35 pm
outta here. cheers folks, we’re on war #3. can’t wait for #4
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:36 pm
jm
One day you will be a retiree, let’s hope the generation after you will actually care about it and not whine and moan about your cost….
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:36 pm
Midori: It was a trap that you fell right into. Very clever, too, I must admit. Just remember that in the 2011 Japanese tsunami, high speed trains killed many more than nuclear power plants.
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:38 pm
“it is nothing even remotely comparable to iraq…”
Correct because in Libya we haven’t really defined what our objectives are and we’ve failed to accept leadership even though we’ve put our thinly stretched military into a leadership role, while our so called coalition partners dance on what they’re prepared to do. Not a lot of leadership from the leader of the free world.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
9:39 pm
“More than 4,000 US lives, tens of thousands of Iraqi lives and roughly a trillion dollars argue otherwise.”
Still cheaper than Obamacare.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:39 pm
Sooth:
A lot less disturbing when a Predator does it from 5000 feet.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
9:40 pm
r-i-i-i-g-h-t, GH
just keep telling yourself that.
how’s Morgan?
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:41 pm
Defined objective – take out libya’s air power – check….rebels may proceed to do your own thing..
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 28th, 2011
9:41 pm
Mick:
In scale you are correct ………. no comparison.
However, in Constitutional authority the question is equal.
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
9:42 pm
Too old. I threw her out for Miley Cirus.