Cheating fears cast doubt on Rhee’s legacy in DC public schools
Michelle Rhee, former chancellor of public schools in Washington, D.C., became a conservative star of sorts for her willingness to take on the teachers’ union and the education establishment, among other things by firing teachers whose students did not improve on standardized testing. As chancellor, Rhee also instituted a lucrative bonus program for teachers and principals at schools that did show significant improvement.
The policy change had an effect; standardized scores rose significantly during Rhee’s three-year tenure. Eventually, however, her brash, combative style contributed to the re-election defeat of her most important champion, Washington Mayor Adrian Fenty, and last year Rhee was forced to resign as DC chancellor.
However, that career setback conferred martyr status on Rhee, who launched a nationwide speaking tour to spread her message of reform. Earlier this year, she was welcomed at the Georgia Capitol with a hearing in her honor in the Legislature and a private session with Gov. Nathan Deal.
However, as USA Today reports, the claim of sudden, significant improvement in DC schools might not bear close scrutiny. Consider, for example, Washington’s Crosby S. Noyes Education Campus, which was lauded by Rhee and others as a shining illustration of what her new approach could accomplish. In 2006, only 10 percent of Noyes students tested as profiicent or advanced in math; two years later, that number had jumped to 58 percent.
A USA TODAY investigation, based on documents and data secured under D.C.’s Freedom of Information Act, found that for the past three school years most of Noyes’ classrooms had extraordinarily high numbers of erasures on standardized tests. The consistent pattern was that wrong answers were erased and changed to right ones….
In 2007-08, six classrooms out of the eight taking tests at Noyes were flagged by McGraw-Hill because of high wrong-to-right erasure rates. The pattern was repeated in the 2008-09 and 2009-10 school years, when 80% of Noyes classrooms were flagged by McGraw-Hill.
On the 2009 reading test, for example, seventh-graders in one Noyes classroom averaged 12.7 wrong-to-right erasures per student on answer sheets; the average for seventh-graders in all D.C. schools on that test was less than 1. The odds are better for winning the Powerball grand prize than having that many erasures by chance, according to statisticians consulted by USA TODAY.
Is any of this beginning to sound familiar? How about this part?
“In 2008, the office of the State Superintendent of Education recommended that the scores of many schools be investigated because of unusually high gains, but top D.C. public school officials balked and the recommendation was dropped.
After the 2009 tests, the school district hired an outside investigator to look at eight D.C. public schools –– one of them was Noyes, USA TODAY learned — and to interview some teachers.
John Fremer, president of Caveon Consulting Services, the company D.C. hired, says the investigations were limited. The teachers were asked what they knew about the erasure rates but not whether cheating had taken place, Fremer says. They told Caveon that they “did what they were supposed to do and they didn’t do anything wrong,” he says.
Henderson, the D.C. chancellor, says D.C. educators interviewed by Caveon “gave specific reasons for high erasure rates. … Some emphasized to their students that (they) … should always go back, review their answers and make corrections, if needed.
“Other teachers,” she says, “encouraged students to eliminate wrong answers in the test booklet by marking an ‘X’ next to wrong answers, which could account for an unusual number of erasures if students marked their ‘X’ on the answer sheet instead of the test booklet.”
School district officials would not release the reports Caveon compiled. Caveon has been hired again to investigate the results of 2010 tests in which 41 DCPS schools, including Noyes, had at least one classroom flagged for high erasure rates. USA TODAY could not determine which schools are being scrutinized.”
Like Superintendent Beverly Hall, her counterpart in Atlanta, Rhee put great stress on standardized testing results. In fact, Rhee offered both more severe consequences for failure and more lucrative rewards for success than Hall has. And as in Hall’s case, she apparently showed little curiosity about how those results were being achieved. Pushing the story about reform became more important than pushing the mission of reform.
– Jay Bookman
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322 comments Add your comment
Mick
March 28th, 2011
8:00 am
Thanks jay, this lady has been on oprah, consults with governor rick disaster in fla and now georgia? What these right wing hacks should do is consult with real teachers like josef who bring it day in and day out. There is audio tape of michelle rhee admitting to putting duct tape on her students mouths to keep them quiet. She admitted having poor management skills when she started teaching. A stunt like that today would get any first year teacher terminated. She is the republican soup de jour, her relevance is simply overblown…
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:06 am
Remember this bumper sticker?
it will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber. …
Still believe it.
Normal
March 28th, 2011
8:07 am
Have to repeat my post below…
Today this the anniversary for Three Mile Island…funny how history repeats itself, ain’t it?
Funny for the day…
http://news.icanhascheezburger.com/2011/03/25/political-pictures-village-people-pope-benedict-idiot/
and…
http://news.icanhascheezburger.com/2011/03/27/political-pictures-bill-clinton-gilbert-sullivan/
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2011
8:08 am
The same people who will defend her wouldn’t hesitate to call for Beverly Hall’s head on a stick. The problem with low test scores isn’t the method of instruction or lazy teachers. It’s parents, both liberal and conservative, who will blame anyone but themselves and their children.
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2011
8:13 am
the only answer is Charter Schools
cosby smith
March 28th, 2011
8:17 am
Ahh….attack conservatives…but it points out that the Government run Schools are out of wack. they serve primarily as a baby sitting service. Bush’s no child left behing put the system on a fast track to complete melt down. Teachers Union’s pour gas on the fire and do not give a rats rear end about education. The problem is not just one person but the way the system has been taken over by the Federal Government. It is time to pick on parents and hold them responsible…it is time to put local control back into the mix…it is time to quit testing and start teaching..sure Jay, pick on a so called conservate and ignore the total situation..typical of journaliasm these days..beat the Government Socialist drum, show conservatives they are stupid and say look at me…gee another product of Government Schools
Mick
March 28th, 2011
8:18 am
Charter schools? I think not, they are another panacea for the quick fix. Statisically, they perform no better than public schools and many times – worse.
stands for decibels
March 28th, 2011
8:23 am
What’s this? another telegenic Gooper hero(ine) might turn out to have been a fraud?
knock me over with a feather.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
8:23 am
Teachers as babysitters…let’s see..how much do you pay your babystitter? Let’s say $5 per hour for arguments sake. If a teacher has 25 students in a class that would be $125 an hour times seven for the day, we should be paying our teachers roughly $875 per day if you want to consider them babysitters….
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 28th, 2011
8:24 am
Possible cheating that would not suport the Republican premise…..why that does not matter unless of course the cheating is in a city like Atlanta which is under Dem control. Now Jay, quit bringing up things that do fact fit into our rage and anger. Why that just makes me want to come back daily and rant at you about how no one should be reading newspapers. [snark!]
Chaps
March 28th, 2011
8:25 am
Rhee was fired because she was the wrong race in DC. But the left-wing media will find, or create, something to discredit anyone who doesn’t worship at the union altar.
TnGelding
March 28th, 2011
8:26 am
Winners never cheat and cheaters never win.
larry
March 28th, 2011
8:30 am
Lets get rid of the CRCT and get rid of no child left behind. Teachers are just teaching to take these tests and are willing to do anything to improve scores and our education system should not be like that.
Call it like it is
March 28th, 2011
8:32 am
“What these right wing hacks should do is consult with real teachers like josef who bring it day in and day out.”
Right……….Because when Ga was a blue state it was in the top tier of public schools.
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2011
8:33 am
It seems as if the stigma of being held back a grade has disappeared.
Now it seems like with No Child Left Behind some teachers will ‘teach to the test’ so as not to traumatize a child by actually getting them to learn the subject matter. The parents and school boards along with some teachers are failing in their responsibilities.
But the main problem is the kids don’t seem to GAS about education. Maybe they don’t see a future in getting one as a lot of decent jobs held in the past have now been transferred to other countries.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 28th, 2011
8:33 am
Chaps, was Rhee hired because she was the wrong race in DC too?
carlosgvv
March 28th, 2011
8:34 am
Then Gov. Perdue appointed a commission to investigate the cheating scandal some time ago and we are still waiting for the results. This delay shows what a witches brew of race, politics and money the CRCT scandal is. Maybe someday we will get the results of this investigation.
larry
March 28th, 2011
8:37 am
Instead of a test based education, maybe kids would respond better to a more well-rounded education. All a test will do is give overpaid adminstrators something to crow about .
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
8:38 am
Keep: So the schools in DC aren’t under Dem control?
ty webb
March 28th, 2011
8:38 am
Seems some here are confused. Rhee is a democrat. Rhee was appointed by a democrat. That is all.
Ponder
March 28th, 2011
8:38 am
All I can say is my wife and I are fortunate to be able to pay for private school for our children!!!
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2011
8:39 am
The problems at APS seem to be along the same lines as DC.
Incentives to ‘cook the books’ leading to bonuses etc. are widespread in the public sector just as they are in the corporate world.
ty webb
March 28th, 2011
8:40 am
oh yeah…DC is also under Democrat control.
poison pen
March 28th, 2011
8:41 am
I know, let’s keep throwing more money at it, that will surely fix it.
lovelyliz
March 28th, 2011
8:44 am
Like the Houston, TX Education miracle that never was and while a conservative darling was at the helm too!!!!!!!!!!!!
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
8:45 am
“Seems some here are confused. Rhee is a democrat. Rhee was appointed by a democrat. That is all.”
Now Ty, don’t be throwing water on this morning’s GOP bashing party.
TnGelding
March 28th, 2011
8:48 am
We need to eliminate all these clueless local school boards and adopt a system that has been proven to work statewide if not nationwide.
ty webb
March 28th, 2011
8:48 am
Godless,
Yeah, I don’t know if it’s wishful thinking or just plain dishonesty by the peanut gallery. It seems Jay did a hell of a job with that first sentence.
larry
March 28th, 2011
8:48 am
Incentives to ‘cook the books’ leading to bonuses etc. are widespread in the public sector just as they are in the corporate world.
Interesting observation, Common. Overpaid superendents and adminstrators with underpaid teachers and parapros.
Overpaid CEO’s and COO’s with underpaid workers. Interesting isn’t it ?
Call it like it is
March 28th, 2011
8:51 am
Always love, well if we pay our teachers better they will perform better. So I guess we are to understand they are holding back on their teaching skills due to their pay, because it was a complete shock to them in regards to what they would be making while going to college.
Taking that into account the same people who are holding back their skills due to pay, might be inclined to cheat, when money is involved. Hmmmmmmm…………
kayaker 71
March 28th, 2011
8:52 am
Is there any proof that Rhee was complicit in those erasures or that she had knowledge of them? Was this just an attempt by teachers to gain high scores to be eligible for bonuses or other incentives? Is there any proof that Beverly Hall was complicit in Atlanta’s fiasco and had knowledge of these attempts to cheat?
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:52 am
Right, Ty.
Because liberal educators from DC often get invited to speak by Republlicans at a special legislative hearing on their behalf, along with a private audience with Gov. Deal. They often get lauded by the conservative Georgia Public Policy Institute as “education reform’s rock star. She’s Madonna, never afraid to be out front, never afraid to speak her mind, never afraid to confront status quo….”
that's just goofy
March 28th, 2011
8:53 am
Common Sense isn’t…: @8:33 “Now it seems like with No Child Left Behind some teachers will ‘teach to the test’ so as not to traumatize a child by actually getting them to learn the subject matter”
Schools and teachers are graded and judged on the outcome of the test. They are not graded or judged on the student learning anything that isn’t on the test – it has nothing to do with trauma.
The test is the benchmark for success why wouldn’t teachers teach to the test?
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
8:54 am
“It seems as if the stigma of being held back a grade has disappeared.
Now it seems like with No Child Left Behind some teachers will ‘teach to the test’ so as not to traumatize a child by actually getting them to learn the subject matter.”
I think to a certain degree that is true — but NCLB puts that pressure on administrators to do so because under the law, you can not have any kids “fail.”
Jay
March 28th, 2011
8:54 am
No, kayaker, there’s no evidence of either.
However, there is a lot of evidence that they were, shall we say, incurious about how the results were being achieved.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 28th, 2011
8:55 am
Well, it’s time for a public hanging of this Rhee and Hall too. Us rednecks need somebody to blame (besides us) for how dumb the students are, and they go cheating on the tests we made the students take. To quote a RINO President, this won’t stand. We need about 8 ft. of rope and a platform. Here we send them a bunch of super-smart redneck kids and they don’t even pour the learning in. If they can’t run the schools the way WalMart runs stores, then hanging is the only answer. Who’s with me?
And don’t give me this junk about josef nix. All the guy does is blog all day.
Have a good Monday everybody.
Independent
March 28th, 2011
8:56 am
Why do people still have a problem with “teaching to the test”? If the test measures basic skills, then that is exactly what teachers should be teaching. Isn’t that what we want out students to graduate with?
Peadawg
March 28th, 2011
8:57 am
“Like Superintendent Beverly Hall, her counterpart in Atlanta, Rhee put great stress on standardized testing results.”
And both of them, along with others who have love affairs with standardized test, are complete morons. Period.
that's just goofy
March 28th, 2011
8:58 am
Call it like it is:
Better pay would not make teachers better – but it might bring in better teachers.
There should be differential pay for subjects, grade level and schools. If the test is the indicator of success – test students at the beginning of the year and the end of the year to see if there is improvement. Setting a benchmark that all students must meet is goofy.
TnGelding
March 28th, 2011
8:58 am
We want our students to graduate being able to think and communicate.
Bob
March 28th, 2011
8:59 am
What these right wing hacks should do is consult with real teachers like josef who bring it day in and day out. Beverly Hall agrees, rightwing hacks cheat on testing. If Michele Rhee brought it like the left wing hacks running APS, she would be in jail for fraud by now.
What’s GA in ranking, 48 or 49 ? Can’t we get back the lofty position we held ten years ago after dems had run the state for about 130 years or so ?
Glad Jay is onto this cheating story in DC.
poison pen
March 28th, 2011
8:59 am
It is ironic that several people will post today and blame one party or the other for this country’s decline in education. Our decline has been happening under both parties and the sooner you partisan hacks realize this the better off everyone will be.
No amount of Bitching or money will solve the problems that evolve from the homes of these children, especially in the Majority of inner cities. We need to look at what other countries are doing to educate their children, pick the best ones and maybe try their system.
I think as a whole most teachers are doing a good job with the system that they have to work wiith, the problem is much deeper than the teachers and this is what we need to focus on.
Deep Throat
March 28th, 2011
9:00 am
I wish I was half as smart as the people on this blog think they are.
TnGelding
March 28th, 2011
9:00 am
Joe Nix for Secretary of Education!
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:00 am
“Better pay would not make teachers better – but it might bring in better teachers. ”
Or keep the good ones from leaving.
“There should be differential pay for subjects, grade level and schools.”
Oh hell no.
“Setting a benchmark that all students must meet is goofy.”
Exactly.
TnGelding
March 28th, 2011
9:01 am
We aren’t smart, just opinionated.
ty webb
March 28th, 2011
9:02 am
Jay,
so the closed minded republicans invite a liberal,minority,democrat(isn’t that the progressive’s “holy triad”) to speak at hearings led by their party…and that’s a bad thing? Now now, that doesn’t seem to jibe with the whole GOP as an intolerant, “party of no”, group of “partisan hacks” argument…does it? I mean come on…Rhee did get the Oprah seal of approval, and what has she ever been wrong about?
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:02 am
“No amount of Bitching or money will solve the problems that evolve from the homes of these children,”
But taking that money AWAY and then bitching that things suck is well, as someone has pointed out here, just goofy.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 28th, 2011
9:02 am
No amount of Bitching or money will solve the problems that evolve from the homes of these children, especially in the Majority of inner cities.
What a bunch of bunk! Our kids know all the NASCAR car numbers by the time they’re 4. If that ain’t smart, I don’t know what is. We send them a bunch of smart kids and these teachers dumb them down.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:03 am
Oh ty, good Lord, not everything in the world is black and white, liberal v. conservative.
Deep Throat
March 28th, 2011
9:04 am
Granny, that the smartest thing you’ve ever said.
TnGelding
March 28th, 2011
9:04 am
You’re actually right, Redneck. The teachers can’t keep up with technology and meet their teaching requirements.
that's just goofy
March 28th, 2011
9:05 am
Bosch
I taught PE, 1st grade, 5th grade and middle school math – yes, there should be differential pay. The jobs and the demands are not the same.
efavorite
March 28th, 2011
9:06 am
Michelle Rhee is extraordinarily skillful, but not at managing a school system. She has a rare talent for temporarily getting smart people to believe in her and support her fervently and unconditionally. These smart people wouldn’t necessarily describe their support in these terms. It’s unusual for them to get pulled in emotionally, so they don’t reflect much on the possibility that their good sense has been compromised. Journalists who are excited by the chancellor’s vision and determination reflexively and repeatedly sing her praises in the press. Other smart people leave their jobs to go to work for her. People who change their lives for a cause or publicly put their credibility on the line have an especially hard time noticing any negative reality that might interfere with their glowing first impressions.
Being smart people, however, they eventually re-engage their analytical skills and swallow their pride. They recognize that their unconditional support is not warranted. While mourning the lost of a miracle cure for the schools, they begin to curb their unwitting complicity in further injuring an already ailing system. That is the phase we’re entering now.
—–
I first wrote this 2 years ago as a comment in the Washington Post. Hopefully, I’m finally right. I keep hoping that journalists will start to see that they’ve been duped and will want to start writing the the real story about Michelle Rhee.
poison pen
March 28th, 2011
9:06 am
Redneck, are those the cars that go Zoom, Zoom?
Mary Elizabeth
March 28th, 2011
9:07 am
First some data. And then a few comments.
(1) On Georgia’s new statewide mathematics tests 52% passed Math II (AJC, 1/21/11), and on the statewide science tests for 4th and 8th grade students, 27% of both grades were deemed “proficient” (AJC, 1/26/11). This means 48% of Georgia’s students failed Math II, and that 73% of Georgia’s students were not deemed “proficient” on the those science tests.
(2) When we tested all incoming 9th grade students, for over a dozen years, on a national standardized reading test, half of the 9th graders (or 300 students, yearly) tested below 6th grade level. The range of scores for those 300 9th graders, in reading, was from 4th grade to grade level 16.
——————————————————————————————————————————————-
Most teachers did not know what their individual students’ reading scores were until we informed them. Standardized scores (and students’ skills) will not improve until teacher teach students on their individual functioning levels – not by blanket curriculum mandates to all children, without variance.
You cannot teach any student on his correct instructional level until you test – to know – what that functioning level is. Standardized tests are being used in the wrong way. But they should not be eliminated.
A few words of mine published in another paper:
“The main purpose of standardized testing should be to assess the yearly advancement (or lack thereof) of individual students, not to punish teachers.”
Standardized tests should be used as diagnostic instruments only. They are being used for political purposes, and not to aid teachers in teaching students. The answer is not to stop all standardized testing. That would be equivalent to “putting one’s head in the sand” in terms of knowing students’
progress.
The powers-that-be should stop scapegoating teacher for political purposes. The reason for poor test scores is poverty. The focus should be on eliminating poverty, not on punishing teachers. (See data in next post.)
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2011
9:07 am
I have seen teachers pass a student with a failing grade in their other class scores when they pass the EOC test. That either means that the student was lazy or didn’t really learn the subject matter.
It could also mean that they are wizards at taking standardized tests.
NCLB has skewed the education system in a way it may take years to undo.
As to teachers ‘teaching to the test’ if a student truly knows the subject matter the probability is that they will pass the EOC test instead of during the semester teachers being forced to teach what is on the EOC test.
Mary Elizabeth
March 28th, 2011
9:08 am
Data From Kyle Wingfield’s Blog by JW
JW
March 4th, 2011
7:41 am
Here is another little piece of statistical information that is not often seen or heard because it doesn’t fit the political agendas of many folks when it comes to our “failing” public schools/teachers and school “reform.”
“To justify their campaign, ed reformers repeat, mantra-like, that U.S. students are trailing far behind their peers in other nations, that U.S. public schools are failing. The claims are specious. Two of the three major international tests—the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study and the Trends in International Math and Science Study—break down student scores according to the poverty rate in each school. The tests are given every five years. The most recent results (2006) showed the following: students in U.S. schools where the poverty rate was less than 10 percent ranked first in reading, first in science, and third in math. When the poverty rate was 10 percent to 25 percent, U.S. students still ranked first in reading and science. But as the poverty rate rose still higher, students ranked lower and lower. Twenty percent of all U.S. schools have poverty rates over 75 percent. The average ranking of American students reflects this. The problem is not public schools; it is poverty.”
Room for improvement? Certainly.
Failing? Hardly
Who is to be held accountable for the continuing high poverty levels in the U.S. that are negatively influencing the performance of our public school students?
ty webb
March 28th, 2011
9:08 am
Bosch,
hello, and I didn’t bring “party” up first. I just felt the need to sort of correct the record. Afterall, seems many on here get their news from Jay…Good lord.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:08 am
that’s goofy,
I disagree — if the demands weren’t the same, that’s your principals’ fault, they should be. And all teachers these days have tons of extra work they have to do. Like your name though!!
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:10 am
Mary Elizabeth,
Thank you — yes, it isn’t politics, it’s poverty.
larry
March 28th, 2011
9:10 am
While throwing money at it, as some as said on here, may not solve the problem but taking over 4 billion out of the system , as the state has done over the last 8 years, will not help either.
kayaker 71
March 28th, 2011
9:11 am
Granted, whatever happened on Rhee’s watch is her responsibility. Same with Hall. However, bashing her style of reform or condemning either Hall or Rhee for the actions of the teachers appears a bit disingenuous. Innuendo is a powerful way of condemning someone’s actions when the whole picture is not presented. Perhaps a disclaimer….. “There is ample evidence that erasures occurred on test papers which ultimately raised test scores, however there is no clear evidence that Rhee or Hall had any prior knowledge of the event or condoned it in any way”. There,….wasn’t that easy?
Ex-DCer
March 28th, 2011
9:12 am
Alright, this is at best a hit and run piece by someone with very little context of the situation. Typical cut and paste job by the AJC crack team.
First off DC schools are several notches below Atlanta. Corruption amongst the teachers union has been pervasive. Just a few years ago the President of the Union was convicted of embezzling around 2 million dollars and spending it on furs and verious luxury items. Other members were also convicted for involvement and cover up. This is just one example of the high ethics of DC Teachers, there are many others but you can Google them yourself.
Adrien Fenty was/is a Democrat. He is very liberal and I’d say much farther to the left than Kasim Reed. Michelle Rhee is a Democrat, she has even been praised by Obama. Race or Ethnicity nor even cheating had anything to do with her leaving the DC School system. Her greatest Sin (according to the teachers Union) was to evaluate the Teachers and Administrators and fire the ones who were performing poorly. That is what set off the firestorm. Because we know that once in a Union it’s members don’t ever expect to be evaluated, what a crazy idea!
For this the Teachers Unions propped up a candidate for mayor and rallied support behind him. He eventually won. Of course in true DC style he is already under Federal investigation for paying (with donations from the Teachers Union) another Council Woman to publicly attack mayor Fenty. Apparently that’s a no-no and he might have to spend some time in the Marion Barry suite of the local Fed Pen.
Maybe she pulled a ‘Beverly Hall’ I really don’t know. I don’t really care because I’d never send my kids to Public Schools in Atlanta or DC (trending to anywhere in the US). But I think your readers should get a little more context.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:17 am
**Because we know that once in a Union it’s members don’t ever expect to be evaluated, what a crazy idea!**
We also know that false sterotype has been picked to the bone by the voracious buzzards of the anti union species…
that's just goofy
March 28th, 2011
9:19 am
Bosch –
Guessing we will disagree. However, I was moved to math not by choice – but because I was certified and capable.
In most careers different jobs require different skills and result in different pay. Pay also increases for jobs in high demand. (We are short of good math and science teachers)
kayaker 71
March 28th, 2011
9:19 am
Ex-Dcer,
Many are good at telling half of the story to make their point and ignoring those facts that tend to invalidate that which you would rather not mention. It seems to happen a lot when partisan people are trying to make someone look bad.
Normal
March 28th, 2011
9:19 am
I love me some unions! Wait! Are we talking sexual or political unions?
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:19 am
Not to pat myself on the back or anything, but I think this makes a good T-Shirt or Bumper Sticker:
“It isn’t politics, it’s poverty”
Del
March 28th, 2011
9:20 am
One word, supposition.
Jay
March 28th, 2011
9:21 am
kayaker, I’d agree up to a point. And that point is the moment at which serious questions are raised regarding statistically improbable improvements and statistically impossible wrong-to-right erasures. At that point, it is incumbent upon leaders who place such great stress on testing results to ensure that those results are accurate and fair.
I see no sign that Hall or Rhee responded in such fashion.
To ExDCer: The context you cite is for the most part accurate, as far as I can tell. I don’t question that Rhee took some difficult but necessary steps in DC, just as I’ve repeatedly given Hall credit for real improvements in the Atlanta school system implemented under her watch. But again, if you’re going to use test results as the primary basis for hiring, firing, promotion and bonuses, you have an obligation to ensure those results are accurate.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
9:23 am
cons don’t fix.
They take.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:23 am
“In most careers different jobs require different skills and result in different pay. Pay also increases for jobs in high demand. (We are short of good math and science teachers)”
that’s goofy,
Yes, I agree with that, but I guess my defenses come from people I hear that think for some reason High School teachers should be paid more simply because they think the subject matter is harder. To an adult, yes, high school math is harder than 4th grade math or 1st grade math (well, to most adults anyway) but it doesn’t mean that 1st or 4th grade teachers work any less harder or have to actually DO less work.
“Pay also increases for jobs in high demand. (We are short of good math and science teachers)”
And considering I’m married to a fantastic math teacher, I could actually get behind that.
Jonas
March 28th, 2011
9:24 am
Wow- 3 years ago I fired all my employees and bought a beach side mansion on a Carribbean island. Incredible- simply soak up the sun, drink martinis, and call my goldman sachs broker to ask how much money I am making.
I am stopping back in Atlanta and noticed we are invading Libya and gas prices are through the roof-
Did Bush and Cheney somehow win a third term?
Call it like it is
March 28th, 2011
9:27 am
Okay this is going to sound bad no matter how I say it, but lets throw it out anyway. Not every kid is going to college, not every single kid should be taking these tests. I’m sorry but these kids parents don’t care, therefore the child doesnt care, so our teachers end up teaching down, instead of up.
Some kids are not going to go past highschool, some will go to tech school and learn a trade and do very well, and others will move on to higher learning. Its just like the HOPE grant here in GA. All of a sudden every single kid became qualified to go to college. People its nature, strong will move on, the weak will not. Quit asking our teachers to teach down so the weak will feel better about themselves.
Karl Childers
March 28th, 2011
9:30 am
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Normal
March 28th, 2011
9:30 am
Off topic:
The last Republican I admired died today, 1969.
Wish there were more out there like him…
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/eisenhower-dies
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:31 am
Well, two thoughts.
1. Good grief. You’d think independent testing would become implemented nationwide very soon since….
2. Apparently teachers, when any pressure is actually applied, tend to cheat rather than improve their teaching and actually help their kids.
I know not all the teachers are implicated obviously. But it makes you want to say, are there any honest teachers out there????
Mr_B
March 28th, 2011
9:32 am
Kayaker: The fault lies not with Ms Rhee and Ms Hall, but with a society that feels that it has to produce identically educated individuals from a pool of students whose life experiences and abilities are as varied as the shapes of snowflakes.The failing of these two educational leaders is in the perpetuation of the myth must meet the same set of standards to be successful.
When I went into the classroom, I believed that teaching was an art. I certainly regarded the teachers who inspired me as artists. I don’t remember anyone demanding that Van Gogh, Michelangelo, or Cezanne that they must paint the same painting every time.
Adam
March 28th, 2011
9:32 am
Reform based on test scores is doomed to failure. Reform based on privatization is ALSO doomed to failure. Best chance? Starting kids early on the basics, including reading (with phonetics), math, science, and so on. Give them a good foundation and then keep reforming up through the years on the EDUCATION aspect, not the test scores aspect, and you will see improvements.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
9:33 am
SInce we’re human, there’s good and bad amongst us. We won’t like everything that everyone does. Teaching is one area where we shouldn’t have this left/right divide because our future is dependent upon the next generation getting a solid educational foundation. It’s quite disturbing, but not surprising, that there are cheating allegations following Rhee, just as they’ve followed Hall.
Why do people still have a problem with “teaching to the test”? If the test measures basic skills, then that is exactly what teachers should be teaching. Isn’t that what we want out students to graduate with?
“I” have a problem with “teaching to the test” because that is not a way to learn. If we teach children how to learn, they will pass any test that measures their basic skills. We’ve become too damned dependent on “test scores” when there is no test that can show a child’s thought process. It’s time to get back to the basics, people. Look at what NASA accomplished in the 1960’s, and they were not the product of modern teaching-to-the-test type instruction in school. Basic skills, when taught well and enforced, will carry a child farther than any other skills will.
Ex-DCer
March 28th, 2011
9:34 am
I totally agree that if cheating happened it falls on her, the Principals, and the Teachers who cheated. I’m just trying to build the context that DC Public Schools are a total mess. Lying, Stealing, and Election Fraud are all part of the norm. Why not throw in Cheating too?
I’m not a huge suporter or detractor of Rhee but anyone who tries to go against the system in DC for better or worse is going to be attacked, villified, demagauged, publicly berated, etc… Why is that? The schools are absolutely terrible there and nobody seems to even care except when someone came in and tried. If she came in and did nothing, just didn’t even lift a finger, and accepted the same old sorry status quo we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
I may have been generic in my earlier comments but they’re accurate. I’m not trying to threadjack this message board, again anyone can Google.
David White
March 28th, 2011
9:34 am
And the answer is,
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2011-03-24-dc-census_N.htm?csp=34news
atlmom
March 28th, 2011
9:35 am
If you are in short supply of something (math and science teachers) you pay more, in order to attract people away from something else. It’s very simple. Are there not enough elementary teachers? then pay more to get more.
There have been charter schools in really really poor areas that show that those children are not ‘lost’ – those schools are doing well with good teachers and good administrators. We have a responsibility to all kids to give them a good education. the problem is, the people in charge (in DC and most state capitals) think that more administrators and more testing is the answer. it is not. we know who are the good teachers. we know where the good schools are. it’s not rocket science…
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:37 am
“2. Apparently teachers, when any pressure is actually applied, tend to cheat rather than improve their teaching and actually help their kids.”
You are working on the assumption that is the norm and not the RARE EXCEPTION.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
9:39 am
Jay, nothing on GE not paying taxes?
Nothing on Robert Gates saying that Libya posed no threat to the US?
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:39 am
SoCo 9:33 – I disagree. Testing is the best tool available. Of course, the quality of the test matters, a lot.
Jonas
March 28th, 2011
9:39 am
we know who are the good teachers. we know where the good schools are. it’s not rocket science…
Just can’t be that simple atlmom- are you suggesting the common man and woman knows the answer and that they should be held accountable? can’t be- the answer has to come from the gov’t or this whole liberal thing simply doesn’t work.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
9:39 am
Apparently teachers, when any pressure is actually applied, tend to cheat rather than improve their teaching and actually help their kids.
That line of thought isn’t just teachers. Athlete’s use performance-enhancing substances. Accountants have cooked the books at companies. It’s human nature, and not something that’s just specific to teaching. The best way to solve that is, when applying pressure, also provide a means of meeting the goal to reduce the pressure.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:39 am
“Jay, nothing on GE not paying taxes?
Nothing on Robert Gates saying that Libya posed no threat to the US?”
Blogger.com is ready when you are.
Deep Throat
March 28th, 2011
9:40 am
Back in the day, we didn’t have teachers Unions, we had teachers doing a job, not so much for the money, or the pensions, but because it was their passion, they really cared.
That passion is gone for the most part, the question is how do we get people to have teaching as a passion.
Also back in the day, parents took interest in what their children were doing in school, I remember my parents sitting down with me and my brothers and reviewing our home work and TALKING TO EACH OF US about school and be a part of the teaching process. How many house holds is this happening in everyday ? I dare say not many.
Back in the day we as children or students were held accountable, if your school grades fell below an accepted level, we new we would be penalized IE. being grounded, not being allowed to play outside with our friends etc. Now most, ask what is playing outside.
The short of it is we as a society have lost our core values, to fix a system or improve it perhaps we should begin by looking inward, rededicate ourselves to our children, spend quality time helping educate them,setting goals for them and holding them and ourselves accountable.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:41 am
“Back in the day, we didn’t have teachers Unions,”
Actually, Deep, back in the day, you did.
Mary Elizabeth
March 28th, 2011
9:42 am
If test results are the primary reason for firing and hiring teachers, schools will have become a places of fear and tension, not only for teachers but for students.
Again, the main purpose for standardized testing should be for diagnostic purposes. Cheating – to whatever degree it is happening – should stop, altogether, to ensure valid test results for instruction.
Tying the test results to hiring and firing creates a climate for cheating. Train teachers how better to teach through using test results; don’t threaten them with dismissal. One way creates growth; the other way creates fear. Schools should be places of growth, not of fear – for students and teachers.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
9:42 am
jm
I disagree on blanket testing. Not all kids learn the same, and they do not respond the same when testing. If we actually taught to the kids instead of teaching to the test, maybe kids would respond much better.
Not all kids are going to be college material. Where does vocational training fall in a standardized test? You may have a kid that’s dumb as a brick in algebra, but he could completely strip down and rebuild a Chevy 327 small block. How do you help that child by failing him on tests that he will not pass?
WOW
March 28th, 2011
9:43 am
“Pushing the story about reform became more important than pushing the mission of reform.”
Bottom line: Jay doesn’t have a solution to the education problem and therefore diverts to attacking Rhee.
Nice job, Jay.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:43 am
Bosch 9:37 – No. What I’m saying is: when held to account at underperforming schools, teachers tend to cheat. At those schools that were already doing fine, teachers don’t have the incentive to cheat. Since the vast majority of schools do “ok” because the test is skewed such that most schools “pass”, the only significant pressure is applied to underperformers. And that is where all the cheating has shown up.
If the “good” school teachers were dumped into the “bad” school, I wouldn’t be shocked to see the cheating continuing to occur.
My faith in most of the public schools is beyond thin. There are a few good teachers out there. They ARE THE EXCEPTION, not the rule.
And I know, I went to a public school.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:45 am
“What I’m saying is: when held to account at underperforming schools, teachers tend to cheat.”
Well, jm, I’d say that’s a little on the broad brush side of thinking, so in my opinion, what you say is wrong.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:46 am
SoCo 9:42 – put him on an alternative track. But don’t stop testing. As they say: you can’t improve (ever) what you don’t measure.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:46 am
“And I know, I went to a public school.”
So, jm, you think that qualifies you to judge or evaluate all teachers in public schools now?
Did you sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night too?
Deep Throat
March 28th, 2011
9:46 am
Bosch as usual you think you know all, but when I attended school that one day we did not have teachers unions.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:47 am
Bosch I recognize I’m using a broad brush. But the scale of disaster in APS is mind boggling. For all we know, this is the tip of the iceberg in DC.
kayaker 71
March 28th, 2011
9:47 am
So, if you are in charge, “you have an obligation to ensure that those results are accurate.” Man, how many times have we heard that story. However, when the scenario fits our agenda and the person is of a political persuasion that we want to support, how quickly we find excuses for them when they fail. We are willing to live with substandard results in many arenas just as long as the D or the R behind someone’s name fits our persuasion. Telling half truths always seems to accomplish the purpose it was set out to do….. make the other guy look bad. Fair? Not so much. I think that Rhee’s motives were far better than that. Can you imagine dealing with a solid political and social barrier like the DC school system? But let’s not put the blame on them…. no, let’s paint a picture of incompetence and inaptitude on someone who was trying to solve problems and improve the system. I don’t see how she lasted as long as she did.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
9:47 am
OFF TOPIC ONE:
Is Media Matters breaking the law in its ‘war’ on Fox News?
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/03/media-matters-breaking-law-its-war-fox-news
WOW
March 28th, 2011
9:48 am
“Bosch as usual you think you know all”
LOL!!!!!!!! Yeah, he has an answer for everything and at the same time offers nothing but diversions.
SEE: Did you sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night too?
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:49 am
RE, accuracy. I find the AJC’s reporting on various things, to be a bit, well, less than accurate sometimes.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
9:50 am
“But the scale of disaster in APS is mind boggling.”
Melodrama much?
jm, didn’t realize you had unprecedented access to all school files, personell files, and test scores of all the kids in APS, the State of Georgia, and the United States of America.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
9:51 am
SoCo 9:42 – put him on an alternative track. But don’t stop testing. As they say: you can’t improve (ever) what you don’t measure.
An alternative track will not help a non-college child become college material. I know you’re all gung-ho on the STEM approach, but don’t lose sight of the fact that we will still need “wrench turners”. It’s all good to turn out engineers, but equipment breaks down, and wiring goes bad. If you don’t have people who can tend to those type of service issues, those degrees turn into nothing more than fancy wallpaper.
I have many cousins who would be the prototype vocational track student. They had no plans or goals of attending college. However, they have basic skills that most take for granted. Even though, they do not have college degrees, their skills are in demand because not everyone knows how to repair their own cars nor wire their homes.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
9:53 am
If you draw a graph of inflation-adjusted spending per pupil over hte last 50 years, and super-impose over it a graph of student achievment over the last 50 years, you’ll see a negative correlation between spending and student achievment.
But that won’t stop brain-dead liberals from blaming the complete and utter failure of public schools on lack of money.
These miserably failing schools are entirely under the thumb of leftist/Democrat beaurocrats and teachers unions, by the way, and have been for over a generation.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
9:54 am
I went to catholic school, I went to public school, some great teachers in both. In the end it was up to me to access my education and take responsibility for my future. I never thought to blame the teacher or school. Yes, I did have two teachers who shouldn’t have been there, both were fired eventually. As for the rest, all were moderate to great, especially the nuns – they literally kicked butt….
jconservative
March 28th, 2011
9:54 am
Keep the kids in school and additional hour each day and keep them in school and additional 50 days. Then scores will go up.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:55 am
“If you are going to cut something, cut parks.” said Judge Mickle. Typical…. what a boob.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
9:55 am
I did acid all the time in high school. Quaaludes and other drugs too.
At my school during breaks, we lined the walls of the smoking area and passed joint after joint until the bell rang.
I did this wearing my football jersey so please forgive my writing skills.
Adam
March 28th, 2011
9:56 am
WOW: You’re suggesting that Jay needs to have a solution before he can say “hey this is a problem.” Fine then, apply that standard to yourself. Don’t criticize anyone unless you can do better.
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:56 am
SoCo 9:52 – by alternative track, I mean toward a “technical” career. Ie, I agree.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
9:57 am
But that won’t stop brain-dead liberals from blaming the complete and utter failure of public schools on lack of money.
It doesn’t seem to stop brain-dead conservatives from repeating the same tired arguments either. Oh well…..
jm
Ok… agreed!!
jm
March 28th, 2011
9:58 am
SoCo – I’d make the 8th grade test a big test. Smart – college track. Second tier – technical track. Then those kids would go to completely different kinds of high schools.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
10:00 am
“You’re suggesting that Jay needs to have a solution before he can say “hey this is a problem.” Fine then, apply that standard to yourself. Don’t criticize anyone unless you can do better.’
LOL!!!!!!! Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere comes the nanny police!!!!!!!! Adam, I already offered solutions to the public school problem. It’s called getting rid of the wasteful dept. of education. We’ve wasted billions of tax dollars on that lousy failed experiment. It’s time for school choice. It’s also time to end the teachers unions all over the country.
WillieRae
March 28th, 2011
10:00 am
Rhee is a conservative and had to be attacked and eliminated.
Hall on the other hand has been less overtly political and has been protected as one of our own until the facts became overwhelming. It’s instructive to see that the AJC news reporting has led the way on the Hall story but the editorial writers have been silent. Hmmm?
Even now, the best Bookman can muster is a slap at Rhee in comparison.
Deep Throat
March 28th, 2011
10:00 am
Adam why are you criticizing others, can you do better ?
williebkind
March 28th, 2011
10:00 am
Here we go again! Only the liberals have the answer to education and that is let the parents do the teaching and give teachers more money. All school staff do is endoctrinate students toward liberalism. Money equals smart!
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
10:01 am
“Smart – college track. Second tier – technical track. Then those kids would go to completely different kinds of high schools.”
Again, you are assuming that kids in technical tracks are somehow less intelligent than kids in college prep tracks. Also, that sets the kids life up in the 8th freaking grade — that’s nuts.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
10:01 am
“I did acid all the time in high school. Quaaludes and other drugs too.”
That explains soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much about the gibberish that comes out of getalifes keyboard.
Adam
March 28th, 2011
10:01 am
jm: They would go to the same high schools, but with more knowledge and get bored very fast. This would lead to them getting into trouble instead. The reform has to go all the way up the chain.
Adam
March 28th, 2011
10:02 am
Deep Throat: I forgot to mention that I am not applying that standard, WOW is. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy. As far as WOW is concerned, yes, I can and do. Every day.
Adam
March 28th, 2011
10:04 am
WOW: your “solution” isn’t a solution. It’s just ideology. Getting rid of the department of education and teachers’ unions will either make education WORSE, or nonexistant for people who can’t pay for it. Which is, I assume, what you actually want: keeping the poor people in their place.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:04 am
Wow,
My drug intake now would take down a elelphant.
All prescription drugs.
I can still mop the floor with you wow and half my brain was destroyed after a stroke.
Your debating skills are pathetic.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
10:04 am
“I forgot to mention that I am not applying that standard, WOW is. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy. As far as WOW is concerned, yes, I can and do. Every day.”
What hypocrisy, Adam? Jay refuses to write anything bad about Obama which is ridiculous considering the guy has extended many of Bush’s policies, added a new war, tripled the debt etc….
Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Michelle Bachmann, Rhee etc are non-issues.
ty webb
March 28th, 2011
10:06 am
“keeping the poor people in their place.”
now that’s a motto the DNC can really get behind…My apologies to the newly unpartisan Bosch.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
10:06 am
jm
We did it all in one high school w/o the testing less than 30 years ago. The world, and education, has not changed that much in the past 30 years. People need to just quit trying to politicize education and look out for the interest of the next generation instead of looking out for their own.
Mary Elizabeth
March 28th, 2011
10:06 am
Private schools are not the answer for educating the masses of of children in Georgia; improving public schools is the answer.( My earlier posts, today, give one way to improve public schools.) Private schools will deplete money from public schools. We will have a return to segregated schools if private schools are launched to educate the masses – but this time schools will
be segregated by wealth and class. There will always be some form of public schools because the poorest, even with stipends, cannot afford private schools.
Private schools are for profit – public schools are not. If you think your for-profit health insurance costs have increased enormously in the past five years, for-profit schools would cost citizens enormously over time, to send their children, en mass, to private schools,
Don’t use kids to make profits. Improve public schools. Private schools helped to sustain segregation decades ago. Private schools, for the masses, in Georgia would be going backwards, not forward, in terms of progressive thought in educating all students. Pre-K instruction and teacher training improve public schools, and move them forward.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:07 am
“It doesn’t seem to stop brain-dead conservatives from repeating the same tired arguments either. Oh well…..”
TRANSLATION: There’s nothing in your post I can refute Harry, so I’ll just call you brain dead.
Adam
March 28th, 2011
10:08 am
WOW: What hypocrisy, Adam? Jay refuses to write anything bad about Obama which is ridiculous considering the guy has extended many of Bush’s policies, added a new war, tripled the debt etc….
If you can’t see how hypocritical that very paragraph is then you’re not going to get it. You hate Obama for Bush policies? For war? For adding to the debt? All when you loved Bush for the same? That is what I am talking about.
Mr_B
March 28th, 2011
10:08 am
Amazing how quickly a question that should be completely non-partisan quickly turns into a conservative-liberal tug of war. This entire discussion should center on the best way to allow as many kids as possible to achieve their higherst potential.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
10:08 am
“your “solution” isn’t a solution. It’s just ideology. Getting rid of the department of education and teachers’ unions will either make education WORSE, or nonexistant for people who can’t pay for it. Which is, I assume, what you actually want: keeping the poor people in their place.”
LOL!!!!!! Teachers unions and the Dept. of Education FAILED, Adam. BIG TIME!!!!!! How would getting rid of them make things worse?
1: Teachers unions are a bunch of crybabies.
2: Dept. of Education is a corrupt bureaucracy.
3: Kids choose where they go to college, why not where they go to grade school?
“keeping the poor people in their place.”
Oh, the poor do a good job at keeping themselves poor. The Democrat Party has used that failed catch phrase for years with the poor and with black people and neither one has gotten any better.
Poor people are poor because they can’t handle money well. They’re also poor because they refuse to work and make a better life for themselves.
Bottom line: Your petty catch phrases don’t work on me.
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
10:09 am
Diane Ravitch, former Bush I administration appointee as Ed Secretary and one of the keenest observers of the education crisis in America:
“The United States is “in an age national stupidity,” with a corporate education reform agenda bent on “demonizing teachers so it can fire them”
“The problem is poverty, not bad teachers”
“People think I want to preserve the status quo. The truth is that I hate the status quo. No Child Left Behind is the status quo“
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:09 am
” keeping the poor people in their place.”
By forcing the poor to continue sending their kids to miserably failing public schools, and insisting that schools really exist for the benefit of the teachers and their unions INSTEAD of the students, isn’t that essentially what LIBERALS are doing?
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
10:09 am
“My apologies to the newly unpartisan Bosch.”
Newly unpartisan? Well, ty, you obviously don’t read my posts, I’m crushed.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:09 am
“brain dead.”
If the “brain dead” poster crushes you in debate, what does that say about you?
Adam
March 28th, 2011
10:10 am
Harry: There’s nothing in your post I can refute Harry,
What, that all liberals think lack of money is the problem? I can certainly refute that, seeing as I am a liberal and do not think money is the problem.
Did I make your head explode?
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:11 am
Mary Elizabeth…I don’t know whether to laugh at your posts, or just feel sorry for you. Usually, I do both.
SouthGaDawg
March 28th, 2011
10:12 am
Jay,
You do realize that your precious Obama was a big Michelle Rhee supporter too right? A quick google search will confirm this for you. Of course, it suits your agenda to tie “conservatives” (i.e. Republicans) to her so you can attempt to discredit them.
Furthermore, lets not forget that Beverly Hall is a democrat and was given high praise by the Georgia for her “reforms.” Let’s not engage in intellectual dishonesty here and let’s place tie both parties to Rhee and Hall. Anything else simply undermines your credibility.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:12 am
“If the “brain dead” poster crushes you in debate, what does that say about you?”
SoCo, this is directed at you…can you please respond?
jm
March 28th, 2011
10:13 am
Bosch 10:01 – that’s life in the modern world bucko. thats how it works in asia
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
10:13 am
It doesn’t seem to stop brain-dead conservatives from repeating the same tired arguments either. Oh well…..”
TRANSLATION: There’s nothing in your post I can refute Harry, so I’ll just call you brain dead.
You need to check the batteries in your translator. Basically, I was saying, “Get new material, because your basic argument is past it’s use by date.” You, and other conservatives, churn out the same bumper sticker arguments. If that’s supposed to impress someone or win a debate, that does not say much about conservative logic.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
10:13 am
“Private schools are not the answer for educating the masses of of children in Georgia; improving public schools is the answer.’
Your answer: more money.
“Private schools will deplete money from public schools. We will have a return to segregated schools if private schools are launched to educate the masses – but this time schools will
be segregated by wealth and class. There will always be some form of public schools because the poorest, even with stipends, cannot afford private schools.”
Schools are already segregated. Ever been to the “historical” black colleges? LOL. Anyhoo, there are many reasons why smart parents don’t want their kids around dumb kids who couldn’t care less about their education. People who put their kids in private schools care about their kids.
“Private schools are for profit – public schools are not.”
Ya think?????? Gee Mary, did it ever occur to you that public schools have to steal taxpayer dollars to keep them running?
“Don’t use kids to make profits.”
Tell that to the teachers unions.
“Private schools helped to sustain segregation decades ago.”
HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“If you can’t see how hypocritical that very paragraph is then you’re not going to get it. You hate Obama for Bush policies? For war? For adding to the debt? All when you loved Bush for the same? That is what I am talking about.”
LOL!!!!!!!! Adam is a classic case of liberal projection. Assume that someone is a certain way and then stereotype them.
Adam, you can divert attention all you want but it won’t change the fact that your president is an idiot.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:13 am
Intellectual honesty from a con.
Now that is funny dawg.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:14 am
“Did I make your head explode?”
You’re not even bright enough to get my full attention, little boy. Now please go back to your geek Squad job and let the grown-ups talk, OK?
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:15 am
“You, and other conservatives, churn out the same bumper sticker arguments.”
LMAO. How long before a liberal plays the race card or blames George W. Bush?
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
10:15 am
jm, @ 10:13 — actually, it’s not. Intelligence is simply a person’s ability to learn and solve problems. There are plenty of super intelligent plumbers and College Professors who are dumb as a box of rocks.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:16 am
“LMAO. How long before a liberal plays the race card or blames George W. Bush?”
Brain dead comment.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
10:16 am
“If the “brain dead” poster crushes you in debate, what does that say about you?”
SoCo, this is directed at you…can you please respond?
Harry
I’ll take brain-dead. I’m on vacation, so there’s no need for me to use my brain at this moment. It does, however, paint a bad picture for you. If I can beat you in debate with my brain turned off, that doesn’t speak kindly of your debate skills.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:16 am
“Private schools are for profit – public schools are not.”
Actually, the vast majority of private schools are non-profit or not-for-profit, but thanks for playing, anyway.
LMAO
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:17 am
” If I can beat you in debate with my brain turned off, that doesn’t speak kindly of your debate skills.”
All you’ve got to do is beat me in a debate (not likely) and this will become a witty rejoinder.
jm
March 28th, 2011
10:18 am
Bosch – I didn’t say they were per se dumb. Call it disposition, attitude, preference, whatever. The kids that aren’t cut out for college should be put on a second track that caters to their talents, skills, interests, and the needs of industry and business. Its perfectly reasonable.
In addition, there would still be “opportunities” for correction in switching kids from one school to the other if it was realized a massive mistake was made, though these would be exceedingly rare.
The world has changed man…..
SouthGaDawg
March 28th, 2011
10:18 am
@getalife
Oh I’m sure you don’t engage in any intellectual dishonesty. In fact, I’m quite sure that you don’t because that would imply “intelligence” on your part.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:19 am
Mary Elizabeth, why don’t you give us a list of all the “for profit” K-12 schools you can come up with?
Thanks in advance.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
10:19 am
“You, and other conservatives, churn out the same bumper sticker arguments.”
HOPE AND CHANGE
GAYS FOR OBAMA
IMPEACH BUSH NOW
GORE/LEIBERMAN 2000
KERRY/EDWARDS 2004
SOMEWHERE IN TEXAS A VILLAGE IS MISSING ITS IDIOT
2008 END OF AN ERROR
NOW BLOOD FOR OIL
I THINK THEREFORE I’M LIBERAL
COEXIST
GREED SUCKS
OIL SUCKS
SAVE AN ELK SHOOT A LAND DEVELOPER
FLAMING LIBERAL
Those are just a few left wing bumper stickers driving around in crappy beat up cars driven by left wingers who work at evil corporate Starbucks.
jm
March 28th, 2011
10:20 am
The US Public School System is like AOL. And the rest of the world has moved on to Google.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:20 am
“The world has changed man….”
As the cons are fighting to go backwards.
See a conflict there jm?
larry
March 28th, 2011
10:20 am
Ahh……………….here comes the union bashing.
Explain to me this; why do children in states that have teachers’ unions score higher on their SAT scores than states who do not have teachers’ unions?
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
10:20 am
“The kids that aren’t cut out for college should be put on a second track that caters to their talents, skills, interests, and the needs of industry and business. Its perfectly reasonable.”
I know there are kids not college material, but their path in life should not be based on their test scores in the 8th grade.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:20 am
WOW, you forgot “Mean People Suck”
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:21 am
jm.
Try to keep up genius.
AOL/ Huffington Post.
You can learn something at the HP.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:22 am
“Explain to me this; why do children in states that have teachers’ unions score higher on their SAT scores than states who do not have teachers’ unions?”
Why don’t you compare the racial and ethnic make-up of the union states to those of the non-union states, then compare the average SAT scores of the various ethnic and racial groups, and get back to us?
Dr. Craig Spinks
March 28th, 2011
10:22 am
Jay,
While “(p)ushing the story of reform became more important than pushing the mission of reform” for DC and APS educrats, for most Georgia educrats pushing the illusion of broadly based educational improvement became more important than pushing the mission of reform.
As you reminded us several weeks ago, the mission of educational reform must be founded upon our culture’s renewed belief in the critical value of education in preparing our kids for responsible adult lives. The illusion of widespread achievement fostered by the likes of CRCTs, GHSGTs et al. inhibits the public perception of the need for such renewal and the public demand for proof that our kids are being so prepared.
Adam
March 28th, 2011
10:24 am
WOW: Oh, the poor do a good job at keeping themselves poor….
Poor people are poor because they can’t handle money well. They’re also poor because they refuse to work and make a better life for themselves.
Over generalization and incorrect analysis for the loss. You don’t understand the world WOW. You only understand the small fake reality you’ve made for yourself. Poor people aren’t poor by choice. That’s a foolish thing to say and assume. They are making efforts to make life better for themselves. They don’t want to be poor forever. How childish for you to suggest otherwise.
LOL!!!!!! Teachers unions and the Dept. of Education FAILED, Adam. BIG TIME!!!!!! How would getting rid of them make things worse?
1: Teachers unions are a bunch of crybabies.
2: Dept. of Education is a corrupt bureaucracy.
3: Kids choose where they go to college, why not where they go to grade school?
You’re asking questions that you don’t want the answers to, but I’m going to answer them anyway. Teachers unions have not failed (they’re only being attacked as a scapegoat right now), and the only failure in public education right now is a focus on test scores rather than on learning. It’s actually quite easy to figure out if you’re someone who actually knows how to think critically.
Assuming kids could go to any grade school they wanted, they would not be making the decision. Their parents would. And kids still don’t get to decide where to go to college. That depends entirely on what they can afford, and not all of them will receive help (especially if you conservatives have your way). In reality, by making it all about money, you are RESTRICTING choices rather than giving more choice. Again, if you had the ability to think critically you’d realize that.
Harry: By forcing the poor to continue sending their kids to miserably failing public schools, and insisting that schools really exist for the benefit of the teachers and their unions INSTEAD of the students, isn’t that essentially what LIBERALS are doing?
No, it isn’t. Schools don’t exist for the benefits of teachers and their unions and no one thinks that except CONSERVATIVES. Miserably failing schools are failing because of the demographic they represent. Send the same students to other schools and very little, if anything, will change. Kids who come from those schools that use voucher programs do NOT improve significantly. The problem is part at home, and part with the school system focusing on test scores and basically throwing their hands up and giving up any time a student refuses to learn. If you start from an early age with basic learning skills, there’s less chance of failure later on. A good foundation is what is needed.
As for letting the grown ups talk, you really should take your own advice and go back to the kids’ table. The adults, including myself, do not include you. Your posts both before and after your snarky comment prove this.
kayaker 71
March 28th, 2011
10:25 am
How many of you posters out there have kids who have earned a degree in something, only to go to work in an entirely different persuasion where all of that education money you spent didn’t have a damn thing to do with where they finally chose to be? I have an older daughter with a masters in special education who owns and runs a lavender farm. Another daughter has a degree in criminology who is a bartender. Go figure.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:25 am
“Oh I’m sure you don’t engage in any intellectual dishonesty. In fact, I’m quite sure that you don’t because that would imply “intelligence” on your part.”
dawgs suk,
You must be new to this blog because I attack you con’s intellectual dishonesty all the time.
Psst, everything you see on fox is not intellectually honest.
larry
March 28th, 2011
10:25 am
What does racial and ethic make-up have to do with it?
Just answer the question , if you can.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
10:27 am
Schools are already segregated. Ever been to the “historical” black colleges?
It’s obvious that you have NOT!!! Here’s one for you to look at.
http://www.alasu.edu/about-asu/index.aspx
Also, a bit dated, but here’s a little stat for you..
http://www.aypf.org/publications/rmaa/pdfs/HistBlackCollege.pdf
Most Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) were founded during an era when African American students were barred from attending traditionally white, postsecondary institutions. [...]
Today, there are nearly 300,000 students attending 103 HBCUs across the country. On average, 13.1% of HBCU students are white and the vast majority of the remaining student body is African American.
That was as of 1999 when that study was done. Look at Knight vs State of Alabama, and you’ll find that HBCU’s in Alabama had to increase their minority enrollment to get equal funding from the state. Now, the State of Alabama has located the state forensics lab on the campus of an HBCU.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:28 am
“Another daughter has a degree in criminology who is a bartender. ”
Free drinks on kay.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 28th, 2011
10:28 am
FUNNY THEIR STILL ARE NO ARTICLES ABOUT OUR UNPROVOKED ATTACK ON LIBYA BY THE OBAMA ADMINSTRATION??? JAY YOU ARE SO WEAK!!
HOW ABOUT SEC GATES THIS WEEKEND SAYING LIBYA IN NO WAY POSED ANY DIRECT THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA??
HOW ABOUT PRESIDENT OBAMA SAYING THIS WOULD TAKE DAYS?? IN FACT NOW IT IS CLEAR THE MISSION IS GOING TO TAKE MONTHS.
WHAT A BIASED JOURNALIST JAY BOOKMAN IS, I CANT IMAGINE WHAT KIND OF VICIOUS ARTICLES HE WOULD BE WRITING IF BUSH WAS IN OFFICE AND AUTHORIZED THIS WAR.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:30 am
Mike ate the brown acid.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
10:31 am
All you’ve got to do is beat me in a debate (not likely) and this will become a witty rejoinder.
Definitely not likely, because I refuse to get into what “you” consider debating.
Kayaker
I’m in law enforcement, when I finished with a degree in mathematics. Good thing was that I was on a full scholarship. Otherwise, I’d be angry with myself for that same reason. If I could go back and do it all over, I would probably go for psychology or something. My job is reading people all day, and I think the psychology degree would go a lot farther than mathematics.
MrReality
March 28th, 2011
10:32 am
Governments lie. That’s what they do. They are based on force, fraud, violence, and theft. That is what they are. They fail. That is also their nature as they have no price/value/cost/demand, system to operate within so that they can effectively produce what is needed by the market. Socialism – the basis of all governments, is a failure. The general public has to be lied to about this or they will come to realize that they would be better off without government and its failed programs. If you are ignorant enough to actually believe that your child will get a good education in a government school, or that anything that comes out of a government mouthpiece (including the media) is anything other than a self-serving statement then you are a fool.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:34 am
“What does racial and ethic make-up have to do with it? ”
“Just answer the question , if you can.”
I’d be happy to. Non-union states tend to be southern, southern states have higher concentrations of black students, and black sudents tend to have lower SAT scores.
You can call me racist (and I’m sure you will) but those are the facts.
If you really want to compare non-union education to union education, you need to do a much more sophisticated analysis. i know liberals don’t really “do” facts and analysis, but this is how you go about it;
Compare the scores of white students in union states to the scores of white students in non-union states, then do the same for blacks, hispanics, rich vs. poor, etc. Only by normalizing out the other variable do you get a real picture of whether or not education tends to be better in states with teachers unions.
But I’m sure it’s easier just to say unions are good and Harry is a racist.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
10:35 am
“That is also their nature as they have no price/value/cost/demand, system to operate within so that they can effectively produce what is needed by the market. ”
Another person who doesn’t understand that government does not equal business — it’s actually the antithesis of it.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:35 am
SC,
Did they include Israel’s tactics in your training?
I hear they just ask questions but never been there.
Adam
March 28th, 2011
10:36 am
If you remove government and replace it with private companies, all you get is the same boot pressing on your neck, but this time with no accountability.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:36 am
“Poor people aren’t poor by choice”
As a matter of fact, Adam little boy, the poor are poor EXACTLY because of the choices they make in life, i.e. not finishing school, drug and alcohol abuse, kids out of wedlock, spending more than they earn, etc, etc.
You are so, so, SO ignorant of the real world around you…..
Cheating fears cast doubt on Rhee’s legacy in DC public schools | Jay Bookman | Slinking Toward Retirement
March 28th, 2011
10:36 am
[...] Cheating fears cast doubt on Rhee’s legacy in DC public schools | Jay Bookman. This entry was posted in Education, Opinion and tagged Caveon, chancellor, combative style, dc public schools, dc schools, district, Education, education campus, erasure, Freedom of Information Act, georgia capitol, Jay Bookman, martyr status, mayor adrian fenty, percent, reform, test, Union, washington mayor, Year. Bookmark the permalink. ← Populism, corruption plague Bengal economy [...]
The End Days
March 28th, 2011
10:37 am
Well by golly, if the USA Today did the investigating and reporting it must be 100% accurate and unbiased. Thank goodness FOX wasn’t involved. Jay driving readers to USA Today is under investigation by the AJC. Now there is a story in the making. BTW-Rhee is a democrat.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:37 am
“Definitely not likely, because I refuse to get into what “you” consider debating.”
Because I would mop the floor with you.
Mary Elizabeth
March 28th, 2011
10:39 am
Harry Callahan:
You must have cut and pasted your negative words about me from the exact same words you used about me on Cynthia Tucker’s blog in December, 2010. Here was my answer to you, on Tucker’s blog then, and it stands today:
To Harry Callahan from Mary Elizabeth, Cynthia Tucker’s blog, Dec. 20, 2010, 5:56 p.m.:
“Just know that your words have no credence with me.
Anyone as small-minded and mean-spirited as you needs to be called out for the bully that you are.”
BTW, Harry, I have spent about 75,000 hours in public education, most in leadership. How many years have you spent in educational leadership? That is a rhetorical question. Don’t bother to answer. I have no more words for you.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
10:39 am
“BTW-Rhee is a democrat.”
That’s what’s so weird about wingnuts, they constantly gripe and bitch that Jay is a partisan hack, then when he actually proves them wrong and criticized a Democrat, they just can’t wrap their heads around it.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:40 am
“BTW-Rhee is a democrat.”
…and got thrown under the bus because of her skin color…
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:40 am
“Because I would mop the floor with you.”
harry please,
You are a con.
cons lie and call it debate.
You basically mop the floor with yourself because nobody believes a word you say.
You cons are the boy that cried wolf too many times.
Zero credibility..
williebkind
March 28th, 2011
10:41 am
Adam
March 28th, 2011
10:24 am
The parents will decide where their kids go to school? So teenagers have no influence on their parents? That is flawed.
Teachers are scapegoats! That is propoganda!
Miserably failing schools are failing because of the demographic they represent. Yea and most of them are liberal!
So you make choices on other peoples’ money! Good for you, big corporations may need you.
Education starts at home! Now I have read so much history and all the great people hardly ever had their parents teaching them algebra. And the schools were locally controlled and not by the federal government. You know who has the gold makes the rule–the federal government.
Mr_B
March 28th, 2011
10:41 am
Woodstock: The small key on the left side of the keyboard, above the the shift key, is called the cap-lock key. What you are yammering about might meke more sense if you turned it off. At least, it won’t be any worse.
MrReality: didn’t I recently see you throwing bombs at the Czar in St. Petersburg?
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:41 am
“Governments lie. That’s what they do”
People lie. That’s what WE do
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:42 am
“BTW, Harry, I have spent about 75,000 hours in public education, most in leadership.”
Nobody with good sense would brag about THAT in today’s world.
Did you come up with your list of for-profit K-12 schools yet?
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
10:42 am
“The US Public School System is like AOL. And the rest of the world has moved on to Google.”
Testify!
“Poor people aren’t poor by choice”
Dumbest comment – ever. However, the more accurate comment would be that poor people are poor because of the choices they make, not that they willingly choose to be poor.
AmVet
March 28th, 2011
10:42 am
Good morning Bookmaniacs.
The general public has to be lied to about this or they will come to realize that they would be better off without government and its failed programs.
Hysterical.
When the Uncle Sam haters go so berserk that they preach outright anarchy, you know someone was traumatized by having to read Lord of the Flies!
The disparity between regions of this country in educational rankings are primarily historic and cultural in difference.
It has little to do with libs or cons, Dems or Reps, and not that much to do with black and white. See this list to be at least partially disabused about your fervently hopeful racial stereotypes:
http://www.psk12.com/rating/USthreeRsphp/STATE_GA_level_High_CountyID_0.html
As always it comes down to two major reasons – money and the value placed on educational success by communities.
That is why regions like the Midwest, Upper Midwest and Northeast are almost always near the top of said rankings. And Dixie is always at the very bottom.
Bookman's Brain
March 28th, 2011
10:43 am
MONEY IS NOT THE ANSWER and this is more proof.
Just throw more money at teachers and administrators in D.C. and Atlanta, what do you get?
Mass cheating BY THE SCHOOL TEACHERS AND ADMINISTRATION,
Get real people, If you watch reports on the best schools you will see those like the one on 60 minutes last night and the one (I don’t remember his name) where the headmaster also does work reporting on CNN. These are hard nosed, no nonsense schools that say students only succeed if they work hard and study.
All the other BS the government churns out to steal your money is a waste of time.
KISS, keep is simple stupid. Something a liberal NEVER understands.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:43 am
getalife,
$500 for each lie I posted that you can point to. Good luck, and happy hunting.
Harry – 1
getalife – 0
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
10:44 am
Did they include Israel’s tactics in your training?
There’s no course to teach that, but you can always find information on different techniques. I’ve met security personnel from all around the world, and it surprised me that some of our tactics are quite similar. There’s different approaches, but some of the methods are similar.
People have talked about adopting the Israeli security model here, but we have far too many avenues of departure from this country for it to be effective. You’d have to have a security force numbering in the hundreds of thousands to attempt to pull it off effectively.
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
10:44 am
” I have spent about 75,000 hours in public education, most in leadership.”
Isn’t that an oxymoron, you know – like military intelligence?
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:44 am
Bosch…Jay called Rhee a “conservative darling” and never identified her as a Democrat.
Thanks for playing though.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:45 am
harry,
“BTW, Harry, I have spent about 75,000 hours in public education, most in leadership.”
This is impressive.
You dropped out so you are jealous of intellectual superiority.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
10:46 am
getalife @ 10:40
I wouldn’t have wasted the bandwidth to reply to that. I just let people live in their version of the world. Nobody gets hurt or offended that way.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
10:46 am
“If you remove government and replace it with private companies, all you get is the same boot pressing on your neck, but this time with no accountability.”
Adam must have been edumacated in public schools.
jm
March 28th, 2011
10:46 am
US Public Schools: Dial up service.
ROW: Broadband.
williebkind
March 28th, 2011
10:47 am
Speaking of teachers how about that young teacher who deserted her class with only a few months on the job to go to mecca. The federal government via Eric the racist Holder is assisting her in the law suit. Now that is education. Who will pay for all that litigation on both sides?
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:47 am
“You dropped out so you are jealous of intellectual superiority.”
No, BBA and MBA here, with 98th percentile scores on both SAT and GMAT.
You find any of those $500 lies I posted yet? I’m sure you could use the cash. Oh I know…it’s right next to Mary Elizabeth’s lis tof for-profit K-12 schools.
getalife
March 28th, 2011
10:47 am
harry,
The last thing I want to do today is read your lies.
Again.
No thanks.
Time to go see my drug dealer.
My doctor.
AmVet
March 28th, 2011
10:47 am
These miserably failing schools are entirely under the thumb of leftist/Democrat beaurocrats (sic) and teachers unions, by the way, and have been for over a generation.
Well, that didn’t take long – the very first post of the day is a lie…
Where’s my $500?
ROTFLMAO…
@@
March 28th, 2011
10:48 am
Just my opinion, but these are the kind of schools we need to be advocating.
http://www.hightechhigh.org/about/results.php
#100% of HTH’s graduates have been admitted to college, with approximately 80% admitted to four-year programs such as Johns Hopkins University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Stanford University, Howard University, University of Southern California, University of San Diego, University of California at Berkeley, New York University and Northwestern University.
# About 35% of HTH graduates are first-generation college students.
# Over 30% of HTH alumni enter math or science fields (vs. 17% national rate)
# Academic Performance Index rankings (API) place HTH schools among the highest achieving in the state.
# HTH’s African-American students outperform district and statewide peers by a wide margin vis-à-vis test scores, percentage who take chemistry, physics, and advanced math (100%), and college entry (100%).
There’s a guy name Doug Reeves, PhD, who, while supporting NCLB, has used teachers to enhance its goals. Creative thinking…that’s the key.
Inspired by Dr. Reeves’ methods, some charter schools have integrated adult education for the students’ parents. Many charter schools like HTH receive funding and personal support from the local business community.
jm
March 28th, 2011
10:48 am
Oh good. getalife is a prescription drug abuser. how am i not shocked.
kayaker 71
March 28th, 2011
10:49 am
Teaching at the Univ of Florida was a hoot, especially for all of the feminine pulchritude present at every glance. It became readily apparent, however, after about 6 mos into the job that there were a not so surprising number of these young ladies, and, yes, gentleman also, who were not as much interested in an education as they were in driving the Bimmer convertible that daddy had bought them, socializing with their friends or getting laid. A very good summary of how your college dollars are being spent is portrayed very well in Tom Wolf’s book, “I am Charlotte Summer”. A must read for a dad ready to send that special daughter off to college.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:49 am
“Where’s my $500? ”
All you gotta do is disprove what I posted.
Mr Right
March 28th, 2011
10:49 am
Thought I would check in and see what conservative Jay is bashing today and yep, there it is, he didn’t let me down. You would think he works for MSNBC!
jm
March 28th, 2011
10:50 am
@@ – I totally agree on HTH. Boston has a similar school. Atlanta’s is a shadow version of those because APS pulls the rug out from under Charters at every opportunity.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:50 am
Well, looks like getalife couldn’t stand the heat, and departed the kitchen on Mary Elizabeth’s skirttails…
Mr_B
March 28th, 2011
10:51 am
Thought I’d throw this in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xuFnP5N2uA&feature=related
Ragnar Danneskjold
March 28th, 2011
10:51 am
Good morning all. Our leftist friends will be amazed to hear this, but our respect for Ms. Rhee is not based on the performance at a single school. Were a single school the basis for our respect, we would laud the principal rather than the overlord of the system.
Our leftist friends confuse their own perverse magnification standards for ours. Here, for example, the leftists magnify the dubious performance at a single school in a troubled system as “proof” of the incompetence of the overlord. Leftist logic.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:51 am
I’m thinking Mary Elizabeth, AmVet, and Kamchak all live at the same address……….
AmVet
March 28th, 2011
10:53 am
Sure, once you provide these…
If you draw a graph of inflation-adjusted spending per pupil over hte (sic) last 50 years, and super-impose over it a graph of student achievment (sic) over the last 50 years, you’ll see a negative correlation between spending and student achievment (sic).
Now you’re down a G, for double-fibbing in the same post.
LOL…
williebkind
March 28th, 2011
10:53 am
kayaker 71
March 28th, 2011
10:49 am
Now that is interesting and good advice.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:55 am
“Now you’re down a G, for double-fibbing in the same post.”
Libbies are so funny…they think something is true just because they say so. LMAo.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
10:55 am
“Thought I would check in and see what conservative Jay is bashing today”
Where in what Jay wrote does he say she is a conservative?
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:55 am
AmVet is a socialist
You gonna claim $500 on the above?
LMAO
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
10:55 am
“were a not so surprising number of these young ladies, and, yes, gentleman also, who were not as much interested in an education as they were in driving the Bimmer convertible that daddy had bought them, socializing with their friends or getting laid.”
You got a problem with that?
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2011
10:56 am
What’s this about standardized tests! It would appear that more than just the tests are becoming standardized. Well, we not let No Child Left Behind fail us and the only way to do that is to pass that test.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:57 am
“Where in what Jay wrote does he say she is a conservative?”
“Michelle Rhee, former chancellor of public schools in Washington, D.C., became a conservative star of sorts for her willingness to take on the teachers’ union and the education establishment”
Doggone…surely you aren’t going to attempt to parse words and deny that Jay tried to paint Rhee as a conservative? I guess it depends on what the meaning of “is” is, right?
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:58 am
Anybody seen getalife?
Mr_B
March 28th, 2011
10:58 am
@@: Are you still teaching?
jm
March 28th, 2011
10:58 am
Obama. Just out of touch.
From the moment he stepped into the public eye as the junior senator from Illinois, nothing much had changed in Barack Obama’s sartorial world until this year, when he suddenly gussied up his closet with a rack of new suits. For the most part, the president has shed his traditional center-cut suit coats in favor of jackets sporting two side vents, a sleeker look that originated on London’s Savile Row to cater to the riding set.
http://www.politico.com/click/stories/1103/obama_suits_himself.html
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:58 am
Anybody seen Mary Elizabeth?
OverLord
March 28th, 2011
10:59 am
Ragnar,
Cleanup in stall five.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
10:59 am
I guess getalife and Mary Elizabeth are away compiling their lists of HC lies and for-profit K-12 schools.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
11:00 am
Anybody seen AmVet? I thought for sure by now he would have denied he is a socialist and claimed his $500…
jm
March 28th, 2011
11:00 am
Obama. Poser of the United State. I’m a firm believer that the clothes do not make the man, quite the contrary very often.
The President is compensating. What he really needs is a swimsuit and life preserver, not fancy new suits.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:01 am
“Anybody seen”
I always get a giggle out of people who are so desperate for attention that they have to beg people to respond to them. Keep it up, I need a good laugh today.
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
11:01 am
Anybody notice that Bookman isn’t touching the Obama/Libya thing with a ten-foot-pole?
Harry Callahan
March 28th, 2011
11:02 am
“I need a good laugh today.”
Go back and re-read your old posts. All the rest of us laugh at them.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
11:02 am
jm,
So, would you rather him buy his suits at JCPenneys? Will you stoop to nothing about him to criticize?
jj
March 28th, 2011
11:02 am
On a return flight from the West coast I sat by a gentleman from one of the major testing companies. We talked about the mess in Atlanta and he said if I thought Atlanta is an isolated incident I couldn’t be further from the truth. In his estimation cheating is rampant across the country.
kayaker 71
March 28th, 2011
11:04 am
godless heathen,
I only have a problem with that if I am the daddy providing the credit cards and expecting good education results from the checks that I send every month. For some, it was like pouring water down a hole in the ground….. more than some, more like a lot. If I had a geiger counter that measured sex hormones in the air, the thing would have been off the scale at UF. Maybe it’s like that everywhere, I don’t know, but it was especially prevalent there. That and how much booze you could consume in a given time. The study week, if there was one, started on Tuesday morning, included Wed, and maybe Thursday. By Friday, the weekend started and lasted through Monday of the following week. Now that’s how old dad should spend his money. Seriously, read Tom Wolf’s book. It is an eyeopener for someone not familiar with the system.
jm
March 28th, 2011
11:06 am
Bosch 11:02 – I would think Brooks Brothers would be fancy enough for any POTUS.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
11:07 am
Harry Callahan 1
Dog 0
Kamchak
March 28th, 2011
11:07 am
Bosch
Did you catch the U.S. vs. Argentina game the other night?
Juan Agudelo looks to be awesome.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
11:07 am
kayaker @ 11:04
It’s not just UF, as most any campus is like that nowadays. The details may differ slightly, but many of the “big schools” have that same type of atmosphere.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
11:08 am
jm,
If he’s paying for the suits himself, then what the hell does it matter?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
March 28th, 2011
11:09 am
Where is Bookman on Libya??
@getalife
Reading through the threads, do you actually have anything to say with any substance?? I see nothing but childish remarks to other people’s statements.
What’s your view on Libya? I assume you must have some kind of excuse as to why this is a justified attack on a country that poses no threat to the US…
godless heathen
March 28th, 2011
11:10 am
“Seriously, read Tom Wolf’s book. It is an eyeopener for someone not familiar with the system.”
Not familiar with it, hell I set the standard.
George W
March 28th, 2011
11:10 am
Bookman has not commented on Libya….how dare he say anything negative about his Lord Obama.
@@
March 28th, 2011
11:10 am
Mr_B:
@@: Are you still teaching?
Not as often as I’d like…filling in is more like it.
Right now, I’m spending most of my time helping our Physical Therapist. Limited physical therapy (gross motor) is integrated into daily lessons…we’ve always had to deal with it.
What I’m doing now is far more intensive. I don’t mind it that much, it’s just that all the work falls on the child…I’m just there to motivate and catch ‘em if they fall. The intensive therapy involves the most profoundly challenged students. If I can just get ‘em to laugh or smile while going thru the pain, I’ve achieved my goal while they achieve theirs.
It’s brutal, but necessary.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
11:11 am
Kamchak,
Yes, I saw most of it — I thought it was a good game. I’ve always like Messi for some reason. I don’t know that much about Agudelo, but I thought the US played well.
Kamchak
March 28th, 2011
11:12 am
Agudelo has only two national caps. He’s scored in both games
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:13 am
“All the rest of us laugh at them”
You’re quite welcome to do that. At least I don’t have to beg you to read them, or respond to them
jm
March 28th, 2011
11:13 am
Bosch – he can wear whatever he wants. People judge people, rightly or wrongly based on the clothes one wears. If he showed up in a real clown suit, people would obviously make a judgment based on that. My read: the guy is compensating.
Just a potential insight into the person, that’s all.
What to do?
March 28th, 2011
11:16 am
Let’s assume more, more, more money isn’t the solution (we spend more per student than other industrialized nations)…so, trying to hold civil servants accountable is wrong? More importantly, trying to hold PARENTS accountable is wrong? DC is an armpit of a city, any attempt to reform it will meet with massive blowback from the entrenched Democratic leadership (Marion Barry won re-election after that bi*** set him up, right)? How can a cesspool like that ever get better?
jm
March 28th, 2011
11:18 am
What to do? -
Keep testing. Convert all high schools to “charter”, go open enrollment for High Schools. And then shutdown / reconstitute poorly performing schools.
Dave R.
March 28th, 2011
11:24 am
I wonder what the corelation of allegedly increased cheating on standardized tests is to the advent of No Child Left Behind government intervention?
@@
March 28th, 2011
11:25 am
From the mouths of babes at HTH.
Now granted, we can’t let kids call the shots, but we can meet ‘em half way. Take the time to explain why. They’re eager to hear.
stands for decibels
March 28th, 2011
11:26 am
Adam must have been edumacated in public schools.
Last I checked, about 90% of Americans are/were educated in public schools.
jm
March 28th, 2011
11:27 am
Dave R – highly correlated. But the alternative (”who cares how they do”) isn’t a very good one.
stands for decibels
March 28th, 2011
11:27 am
DC is an armpit of a city
Jay, an “ignore” button/clown filter. Pretty please?
Normal
March 28th, 2011
11:28 am
Scout,
This make your blood pressure rise?
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/american-pacifists-arrive-in-haiphong
jm
March 28th, 2011
11:31 am
Unions. Just another special interest.
jm
March 28th, 2011
11:32 am
“And as in Hall’s case, she apparently showed little curiosity about how those results were being achieved. Pushing the story about reform became more important than pushing the mission of reform.”
Apparently faith in the honesty of teachers was sorely misplaced. Now we have to check the checkers.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 28th, 2011
11:35 am
DC is an armpit of a city?
Overall I find DC to be a great city with beautiful monuments, parks, cherry blossums, National Mall, Smithsonian, great buildings…. Anyone who calls it an armpit must have never been to NJ.
Mr_B
March 28th, 2011
11:35 am
@@: Please keep it up. I know from your posts that while we don’t share the same political outlook, we do share the important stuff, the concern for our kids. Gotta go for a while. Cioa.
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2011
11:37 am
Blame the parents?
As a product of the public and private schools in the 60’s and 70’s the main difference I see now is lack of time the parents have available to work with their children.
When I grew up (large assumption that I ever did) mom stayed at home while dad was able to make a decent living.
Now single parent homes and lack of decent jobs has created a situation where families are in a day to day struggle for survival and the kids education is taking a back seat to that survival.
Mick
March 28th, 2011
11:38 am
fight
Jersey is fine, what with all the beaches and gardens in the south plus not being new york is a plus…
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
11:38 am
Keep,
“Anyone who calls it an armpit must have never been to NJ”
Or Birmingham.
How’s the healing coming along?
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
11:39 am
NoCom
Quit making sense. After all, common sense is not very common.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
11:40 am
Or Birmingham.
Birmingham, England…. right???
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:41 am
“After all, common sense is not very common”
True…but you have to remember, that’s only apparent to those who actually HAVE commone sense!
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
11:42 am
Common Sense,
Yeah, I second that. I think back on many of my closest friends when I was a kid, and my mom was the only one that worked.
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2011
11:42 am
Who scored higher Al or Ga?
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
11:42 am
Uh, yeah, SoCo, yeah, that’s what I meant — Birmingham….England….yeah.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
11:44 am
True…but you have to remember, that’s only apparent to those who actually HAVE commone sense!
As often as that plays out here, you’d think I’d have that memorized by now.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 28th, 2011
11:45 am
Mick, I agree south Jersey and some parts of northern Jersey….but then there is Jersey City.
Bosch, thanks for asking. Slowly healing. Unfortunately with “dirty wounds” they have to weep and stay open. No infections and that is great. Bruising is way down. Still will need some plastic surgery but hard to really fix my ugly mug much.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2011
11:46 am
“As often as that plays out here, you’d think I’d have that memorized by now.”
AMEN to that!
deegee
March 28th, 2011
11:46 am
You can’t set up a bonus system for educators based on test scores. The obvious outcome is that educators will teach to the test in order to get their bonus. Sadly, the breakup of the family unit is at the root of our education woes. Public school children excel in areas where there is strong support from a nuclear family that values education. How do we fix that?
stands for decibels
March 28th, 2011
11:47 am
Uh, yeah, SoCo, yeah, that’s what I meant
Don’t fret. I have it on good authority (and to quote Mick & the boys):
Wham! Bam!
Birmingham,
Alabama, don’t give a damn.
gotta run. don’t cheat while I’m away.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
11:47 am
Bosch
Just funnin’ wit’cha. Alabama is slowly coming out of it’s ass backwards state and is slowly transforming itself from something other than a retirement community and space filler between GA and MS.
Who scored higher Al or Ga?
It depends on which test… I think AL has more auto manufacturers now, and AL also has better SEC football. Other than that, I don’t know….
Ken Hoagland
March 28th, 2011
11:48 am
Fixing our public education system is on a much longer timeline than most are willing to accept. It’s generational.
Why? Because too many of the parents and even grandparents of today’s generation of students were, themselves, failed by poor teachers protected by union contracts and union clout, budgets favoring non-teaching jobs and fudged promotion policies. In many “drop-out factories” passing as public schools its really all about drugs, gangs, teen pregnancies and the “gotcha” mentality of administrators either unable to make a real difference or uninterested in the futility of meaningful change. The education ethic does not exist in these parent’s households and even good teachers will only make so much progress without support at home.
Time and time again intense pressure on schools to immediately do better has resulted in all kinds of mischief to obtain seemingly better results. State education agencies fudge the standards, teachers play games with the tests and teaching to a test, whole school systems look the other way. Meanwhile, even more students drop out, have kids and produce another generation without that necessary belief in the importance of homework, reading or hard work. The reformers at the top push hard, as they should, but the dysfunction is immune to just pressure, better pay or bonuses.
The unions protect the employees, not the students. It slows or stops getting rid of bad teachers. It doesn’t take many to lose a good number of kids. One year of bad math or reading resonates beyond that year as the student falls further and further behind. A bad school loses even more kids and the poor parent, trapped in this hopeless situation, doesn’t have the means to move elsewhere. They give up.
School choice and charters are the first hope of opening up the whole system to competition. Eventually, caring parents will find the best, reject the worst, and public schools will have to pay attention and change or lose their funding base. It creates pressure to do whatever it takes to improve. The unions fight this tooth and nail, of course, because this is not great for their employeees in the short run even if it helps the kids and their parents.
If a child comes alive to learning because a particular teacher at another school is good at communicating and teaching music or math or history or basket weaving then why would we keep the parent from enrolling their child where there is the best chance of this passion for learning finding purchase? Politics.
It is the parent who knows their child better than anyone else in the world but it is a street address that dictates what school the child attends. That’s crazy and designed for the ease of education employees and bureacrats, not those who pay for the system–the parents. It is also an abject failure. We don’t tell students they must attend college according to their address. Parents what they can afford and pick the best mix of subjects and teachers to prepare them for careers. The same should happen with K-12 education and paid for with taxes already being paid. Are we really required to pay for bad schools and then have no choice but to send our kids there? Yes, unless you have the money out- of-pocket for an option. So who is most hurt by thes epolicies vigously defended by liberal politicians, inmcluding monority legislators–minority and low income children. Go figure.
To outlive the damage already done and create a growing percentage of parents who care will take generations. School choice will eventually lead to a private sector explosion of new approaches and better schools. This means more parents involved, improving public schools, increased competition for good teachers (and employment opportunities) and a way out of this politics driven race to the bottom of the educated world.
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2011
11:48 am
It’s easier to blame Josef for APS’s problems since he isn’t here to defend himself
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
11:48 am
SoCo,
Yeah, I shouldn’t have written that about Birmingham, I haven’t been there in years, I used to have some family there and I absolutely hated going to that city — but some friends of mine who go over quite a bit tell me the downtown area is quite the spot now.
ty webb
March 28th, 2011
11:49 am
“AL also has better SEC football.”
come on…low blow. Can’t we atleast be civil?
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
11:51 am
“School choice will eventually lead to a private sector explosion of new approaches and better schools. This means more parents involved, improving public schools, increased competition for good teachers (and employment opportunities) and a way out of this politics driven race to the bottom of the educated world.”
Yes, and all the cute fuzzy animals in the world will find loving homes, unicorns will roam through the streets, and peace will finally endure forever!!!
Lil' Barry Bailout
March 28th, 2011
11:52 am
Why do public schools in DC and Atlanta need improvement in the first place?
Because they’ve been run by Democrat governments and public employee unions.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
11:54 am
Bosch
I still wouldn’t live in Alabama, and I was born there. The state is slowly coming around, but it will be a while before the transformation is complete. It’s a generational thing. Most of the old money power people are afraid of losing their power, so that state has been almost like a time warp. Things are slowly modernizing, but they’re still behind the curve.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
11:55 am
ty
Don’t forget, Alabama also has Auburn….. At least the state of Georgia doesn’t have to deal with that. If you take the Univ of AL out of the picture, then Georgia has better SEC football.
ty webb
March 28th, 2011
12:02 pm
soco,
begrudgingly…your point(11:55) is taken.
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
12:03 pm
williebkind: All school staff do is endoctrinate students toward liberalism
Dead wrong. Public schooling is neutral. What you’re calling ‘liberalism’ is the failure to advance a conservative world-view, but that’s an illusion. Only YOUR proposed curriculum, a “conservative” one, is biased. The optical illusion from which you suffer causes you to think that any curriculum that doesn’t share your pet curriculum’s concerns is equally ideologically motivated. It’s NOT.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
12:03 pm
““AL also has better SEC football.”’
Only state in the history of college football to have ever had two universities win back to back championships and Heisman winners.
Billings
March 28th, 2011
12:03 pm
10 Most Common Complaints Among Today’s Teachers:
1) Overworked: One of the top complaints among today’s teachers is how much they are overworked.
2) Underappreciated: Today’s teachers often feel underappreciated for their hard work and achievements.
3) Underpaid: Another major complaint among today’s teachers is their salary. Many teachers feel that they are significantly underpaid for the amount of work they do.
4) Large Class Sizes: Teachers are up in arms over the growing size of classrooms. Large class sizes have made teachers’ jobs even harder than before because they are now juggling more students, more distractions and more behavior problems.
5) Student Disengagement: Another complaint among today’s teachers is student disengagement. More and more, students are losing interest in school and feeling disconnected to their teachers.
6) Lack of Parental Involvement: Today’s teachers are upset by the lack of parental involvement in their child’s education.
7) Standardized Testing Pressures: For decades, teachers have complained about standardized testing and the pressures it puts on them and students.
9) Layoffs: As of lately, layoffs have become one of the biggest complaints among today’s teachers, and rightfully so, because most of their jobs are on the chopping block.
10) School Schedules/Breaks: Another major complaint among today’s teachers is school schedules and breaks.
BOO HOO! It is all about them. The only time students are mentioned is in the form of a complaint. The students are disengaged and their parents do not care.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
12:04 pm
“At least the state of Georgia doesn’t have to deal with that.”
In “that” I assume you mean WINNING!
ty webb
March 28th, 2011
12:05 pm
“Only state in the history of college football to have ever had two universities win back to back championships and Heisman winners.”
yeah..well regarding last year, I can’t argue with that return on investment.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
12:08 pm
In “that” I assume you mean WINNING!
Once again, you assume wrong. In “that”, I meant the Univ of GA doesn’t have to deal with a 2nd best school puffing their chests up to try to be #1 just because they have one year where all good luck falls their way.
Bosch
March 28th, 2011
12:09 pm
You know Billings, you should really cite your sources when you copy and paste them. Just saying.
Left wing management
March 28th, 2011
12:10 pm
Larry barry bailout: Because they’ve been run by Democrat governments and public employee unions.
Then how do you explain the successful schools in unionized Wisconsin? Or how do you explain the fact that one of the strongest education systems in the world, Finland, is based on strong educational unions?
The answer: you can’t. The example of Finland drives a stake through the cold heart of the conservative anti-union narrative.
WOW
March 28th, 2011
12:12 pm
“Once again, you assume wrong. In “that”, I meant the Univ of GA doesn’t have to deal with a 2nd best school puffing their chests up to try to be #1 ”
Poor mullet. Even when you’re trying to be sarcastic you fail. Auburn tried to be number one? Dude, went 14-0 and produced the best team in the country in 2010. I’m so sorry if that offends you and honestly it makes me laugh to see rammer jammers all upset. Oh, and Mark Ingram sucks.
Midori
March 28th, 2011
12:13 pm
Bosch – do you know how to cook with Mexican sour cream?
WOW
March 28th, 2011
12:14 pm
“just because they have one year where all good luck falls their way.”
Guess you don’t realize that it takes a little luck to win games. We came back in 8 games last season and won every one of them. We beat the Tide in their own home stadium in front of 100,000 fans who probably didn’t even go to school there. Also, I do remember Bama barely escaping a few games back in 2009. With .52 secs left on the clock, Bammer came back and won in the 4th quarter against a 7-5 Auburn team that wasn’t even ranked.
To top that off, Auburn is 8-3 against the mullets in the last 11 years.
Have a nice day.
George W
March 28th, 2011
12:14 pm
BOokman has posted a new thread.
AmVet
March 28th, 2011
12:17 pm
SoCo, you know the joke.
I hold up my palm, tell them to go get five and come back and talk to me.
Or in the case of Bama, hold up all of your fingers and three toes and tell the wannabes to try and spell thirteen!
Mr_B
March 28th, 2011
12:19 pm
Barry@11:52. By now, I’d have expected even you to know the lie when you see it. There are no, none, nada, zip teacher’s unions in the state of Georgia. They are prohibited by state law. There are two major associations of teachers in the state which have no collective bargaining rights, and which function primarily as lobbying organizations and as legal insurance for their members.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 28th, 2011
12:21 pm
Poor mullet.
When you’ve lost the debate, start slinging names. Sad that you did that even before you tried to reply. That means you already know the facts. Auburn JUST won their 2nd national championship. They still need 8 more to catch up with Alabama. An 8-3 record over the past 11 years only shows how far behind in the series Auburn was. You still have to win 6 more to tie the series record.
As I said before, Auburn is the Avis of college football in the state of Alabama…. “We’re #2… We try harder!”
Mr_B
March 28th, 2011
12:26 pm
Billings; You post of list of “10 Most Common Complaints Among Today’s Teachers” and then complain because they have complaints? How about a list of “10 Things Teachers Like Most about Their Jobs?”, or “10 Things Hedge Fund Managers COmplain About Most?”
WOW
March 28th, 2011
12:27 pm
“When you’ve lost the debate”
LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dude, quit while you’re behind.
“They still need 8 more to catch up with Alabama.”
LOL!!!!!!!! Dude, Auburn GRADS don’t live and die by championships. Then again, you never attended the U of Bama, did ya?
“An 8-3 record over the past 11 years only shows how far behind in the series Auburn was.”
Considering we won 6 in a row, something only Bear has done against Auburn in the 70s…..
“You still have to win 6 more to tie the series record.”
Which is very easy to do.
“As I said before, Auburn is the Avis of college football in the state of Alabama…. “We’re #2… We try harder!””
Right now, we’z number one. Oh, I hear WalMart has leftover XXXXX-L clothing on their sale rack 28-27% off.
Mary Elizabeth
March 28th, 2011
12:36 pm
Ken Hoagland @ 11:48
You have some “neat and tidy” thoughts put together, but they don’t ring true to me from what I have witnessed in classrooms from 1970 to 2006. Not to be discourteous to you, for I believe that you have genuinely tried to come up with answers as you see public/private education, but have you ever taught school yourself in either public or private schools? Your writing indicates, to me, that you have not. And, there are no teacher’s unions in Georgia.
Public monies should not be used for private education. Any parent can send his child to a private school, using his own private money. I have no children any longer living in my home, but I still pay taxes for public education based on my property taxes, and I expect to continue doing so, for I wish to see the society-at-large educated through public schools with public money – including my own. I do not wish to see private school deplete the resources of public schools with my tax dollars.
Looking more deeply at what is occurring regarding education throughout our nation, political interests are deliberately demeaning public schools in order to dismantle them for private markets. Private markets have become answers to all problems, in their ideological mindsets, and they have recently been targeting public schools, and will continue to do so, as long as their agenda to malign public schools succeeds. The drop-out rate in Georgia has been low for decades. It is not a new phenomenon and I will continue to give my thoughts of (1) correct placement and (2) targeted instruction to improve the drop out rate which must be improved, but not through private schools.
Private schools have been selective in the students they have accepted, and they have not had to teach to a wide range of student variables. I do not believe it is even realistic to think that private schools could service the masses of students in Georgia. And if that design (massive private schools) were to be implemented by those who are not educators, private schools would fare no better than public schools in educating the masses. In fact, I believe they would do worse, because private schools don’t have the experience behind them in knowing how to educate masses of students, on their myriad of levels of instructional needs.
Lil' Barry Bailout
March 28th, 2011
12:37 pm
Then how do you explain the successful schools in unionized Wisconsin?
——-
Wisconsin schools aren’t significantly better than any other state. Any minuscule difference in performance is due to higher percentage of two-parent families and lower incidence of the fear of “acting white”.
Mary Elizabeth
March 28th, 2011
12:39 pm
Correction: The drop-out rate has been high for decades in Georgia, not low.
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
1:51 pm
How does someone expain the successful unionized schools in Wisconsin?
Easy. Demographics and culture. Wisconsin is a very white state and its no secret that states with low numbers of minorities are going to score higher on standardized testing.
Also Wisconsin has a heavy influx of German descended Americans and people of Germanic heritage tend to value and have a greater emphasis on education than many other peoples. Ever heard of “German engineering”?
Thulsa Doom
March 28th, 2011
1:53 pm
Good Grief. Ya’ll still having the Alabama-Auburn football debate? Ya’ll should go back to debating politics- the AU-Alabama quarrel can get really nasty.
Paulo977
March 28th, 2011
1:59 pm
Bosch
Setting a benchmark that all students must meet is goofy.”
Exactly.
Setting a benchmark that all students must meet is goofy.”
Exactly.
And EXACTLY again!!!
oldguy
March 28th, 2011
3:51 pm
you don’t want to set a benchmark for students? Fine with me. Then maybe everyone should get a diploma…..thus making it worth nothing (which is about where it is now!)
Teachers can’t make students learn…..everyone knows that….but good teachers can work to challenge student’s interests…..and it woul help to be able to reward quality teachers and (gasp!) get rid of dead waight rather than promoting them with longevity pay. Teacher unions will NEVER support that.
Teacher unions do one thing – Protect the incompetent.
The only way to break the cycle….give parents the choice to send their kids to private schools—with their tax money!
Lil' Barry Bailout
March 28th, 2011
4:53 pm
Amen, oldguy. The libbtards will scream about “starving our schools of resources”, but if they lose kids due to the poor job they do, why would they need the resources that should follow the child?
Teachers: Greedy.
BFD
March 28th, 2011
5:03 pm
Vouchers. Get the government out of education.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
March 28th, 2011
5:35 pm
Since the NObama girls aren’t going to a public school, why don’t they HOME SCOOL and save the taxpayers all that extra security in watching the little brats at a PRIVATE SCHOOL?….Yeah, the man for the little man”.
captguitarman
March 28th, 2011
5:35 pm
Despite the comments made by a few on this board, this is one “conservative” who would not give Michelle Rhee, or anyone else, a free pass if she created and nutured a culture in the D.C. schools where cheating on standardized tests was encouraged and rewarded and covered up. The facts need to come out, and they will — they always do, just like they did here in Atlanta. In Atlanta the situation was basically that the “end all” and “be all” of education in the APS during Hall’s tenure was getting those standardized test scores up (see article in yesterday’s AJC). When it became clear that administrators and teachers were doctoring the tests to achive the boss’s most cherished heart’s desire, an attempt was made to cover it up that involved Hall’s minions, school principals, adminstrators, some teachers, some membes of the Board of Education, and the Chamber of Commerce and the Atlanta business community. The cover up failed, the state stepped in, and the investigation is pending. There is no direct evidence that Hall knew about the cheating – despite its widespread practice. Possibly the successful intimidation tactics used against potential whistle blowers was successful in keeping it all under wraps — for a while. It will be interesting to see if there was cheating (doctoring of tests by teachers and administrators) in D.C. and if so, if Mchelle Rhee was obsessed with the scores (as Hall was because they brought her much fame and notoriety as and educator) and if she actually facilitated and promoted it, or turned a negligent blind eye to it as Hall did to keep the kudos coming. Also, if D.C cheating who was involved and did it go all the way into the Board of Education and the business community. If the facts show that Rhee was involved or should have known better and was negligent, she should be held responsible, just like Hall and her crew.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
March 28th, 2011
5:39 pm
Mary Elizabeth – Oh come one, what is PAGE? It might need be a “union”, but its missions are about the same. TELL THE TRUTH, not half lies.
Adam
March 28th, 2011
6:53 pm
Harry: the poor are poor EXACTLY because of the choices they make in life, i.e. not finishing school, drug and alcohol abuse, kids out of wedlock, spending more than they earn, etc, etc.
It is exactly that false impression that is making you believe that all of THOSE PEOPLE don’t deserve to be associated with you, nor do they deserve any help, because you believe they are ALL (all of them) parasites. Even when it is the rare exception that is simply hyped up for emotional hysteria in media.
williebkind: Teachers are scapegoats! That is propoganda!
Not what I said. I said teacher’s unions are being used as scapegoats, both for educational problems and for budget problems, when neither is true.
Miserably failing schools are failing because of the demographic they represent. Yea and most of them are liberal!
Cite please.
The rest of your post makes no sense and is not worth respnding to as a result.
Harry: No, BBA and MBA here, with 98th percentile scores on both SAT and GMAT.
It’s a shame you wasted all that talent by sitting here on the internet telling everyone else how wrong they are and believing yourself to be a legend.
Murano
March 28th, 2011
9:02 pm
The federal funds were flowing and Michelle was handing out big cash bunuses to principals at schools with the best test scores. Naturally what followed was large scale cheating, just like in Atlanta. You get what you incentivize.
| Conducting the Inner Light
March 28th, 2011
10:21 pm
[...] Jones (which I think covers the political spectrum pretty darn well) and many have titles such as: Cheating fears cast doubts on Michelle Rhee’s legacy in DC Public Schools and Testing fraud at heart of Michelle Rhee success or Cooking the school books on [...]
US child poverty- 25 percent
March 28th, 2011
11:35 pm
Low test scores are a problem because of the way our society is headed and because of child poverty. Kids are being raised by MTV and video games. Yet, we expect people who make $40k a year to wave a magic wand and solve everything.
No Cheater Left Behind
March 31st, 2011
10:39 am
[...] According to an article published in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, evidence of dramatic improvement in Washington D.C.’s public schools is powered by conspicuously falsified test results. The article points to such schools as Washington’s Crosby S. Noyes Education Campus, which has received high praise for its seemingly impossible leap in testing proficiency in just two years. A close assessment of the standardized tests produced by Noyes shows an extraordinary number of erasure marks in which wrong answers have been changed to correct answers. [...]
Crown
April 4th, 2011
10:15 am
Somebody should straighten up DCPS fast. Part of the reason Rhee used her master teachers and principals to give minimally effective rating to some teachers was that they refused to cooperate in cheating endeavous in their schools . If these teachers had complied to get the children to do well by all means( including cheating) they should have been allowed to remain on their jobs. These teachers were terminated while the ones who didn’t teach well but did the test with the children were rewarded with bonuses .It was grossly unfair.. USA Today should conduct a thorough investigative journalism NOW that another annual testing activity is in progress. The same situation may still be occuring.