The high-stakes labor fight in Wisconsin gets more intense

“In other words, she had it coming”

Yeah, it’s the “Why do you make me beat you?” argument of domestic abusers. So much for taking responsibility for YOUR OWN actions (or words)

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You know what I like about our side? We don’t need phony sting videos and outright lies to give ‘em hell. We just “give them the truth and they think it’s hell”, as a wise man once put it.

Enjoy your remaining ten months in office, Scott.

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Crap…looks like my bracket is officially busted. Thanks Duke!

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“Wisconsin Democrats, for example, are trying to force recall votes against eight Republican state senators, and they claim to be succeeding. They need to throw out three Republicans to regain control of the state Senate, and as the Washington Post reports, they sound pretty optimistic.”

That’s actually the funniest thing I’ve heard in a while. It should be the 11 Democrats that ran away how should have the recalls votes. Y’all are too funny this morning!

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The real death threats people have made against him aren’t being reported by the media, so I can’t imagine why he thinks a fake attack would get reported. The media has shown it’s not willing to do it’s job, considering how much of a huge deal they made out of Palin having a target on a map in campaign literature, but then don’t seem to be bothered at all by Wisconsin union folks talking about going to war and sending actual death threats to Walker. The media won’t do it’s job, and that means Walker is at a serious disadvantage when it comes to PR. If only Jay and most of the rest of the media weren’t blatantly partisan in the stories they choose to cover and the way they present those stories to the public.

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Dawg, if they were unpopular, the Republicans could mount a recall campaign to get them thrown out.

But they aren’t. You can figure it out.

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Unions are history. They will lose their cushy pay and benefits. The democrat sissies in Wisconsin that ran away from the vote deserve to be thrown out of office on their rear ends.

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“Dawg, if they were unpopular, the Republicans could mount a recall campaign to get them thrown out.”

they already did…it’s called an election.

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How’s that investigation into the swastika at David Scott’s hq coming, and the proof of the racial language hurled at John Lewis? Sounds very similar to Lamm

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We don’t need phony sting videos and outright lies to give ‘em hell. We just “give them the truth and they think it’s hell”, as a wise man once put it.

That so, sfd?? These Democrats are facing criminal charges for this nonsense:

http://detnews.com/article/20110317/METRO02/103170380/1409/2-ex-Dem-leaders-charged-in-fake-tea-party-scheme

Somehow the Libs around this place never seem to notice the three fingers pointing back at them.

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The real death threats people have made against him aren’t being reported by the media

oh no, NOBODY ANYWHERE has heard about alleged “union thuggery.” riiight.

see also this, from another very smart man, emphasis mine:

“The issue is the refusal of Memphis to be fair and honest in its dealings with its public servants, who happen to be sanitation workers. Now, we’ve got to keep attention on that. That’s always the problem with a little violence. You know what happened the other day, and the press dealt only with the window-breaking. I read the articles. They very seldom got around to mentioning the fact that one thousand, three hundred sanitation workers were on strike, and that Memphis is not being fair to them, and that Mayor Loeb is in dire need of a doctor. They didn’t get around to that.”

In the reality-based world, we know what your side does to people who get too uppity.

gotta go produce. Later, all.

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Looks like the Japan earthquake will be a buy-American incentive. Cause you won’t have any other choice…. (I’m half kidding. the parts shortages are messing up US manufacturing too. did these retards only have one supplier for these parts? were they that dumb?)

http://blogs.forbes.com/joannmuller/2011/03/24/automotive-industrys-sucker-punch/

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“Wisconsin Democrats, for example, are trying to force recall votes against eight Republican state senators, and they claim to be succeeding.’

So it was okay for them to run away from their job, leave the state and hide out for a few weeks?

“Nobody knows who put them there, or why. But these days, you can’t take anything at face value.’

What????????????

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Wisconsin is going to win another big one! It’s not that they tried to union bust that gets me, it’s the underhandedness of it all. Voters should be able to vote over things like that…”Just put it to a vote, stupid”.

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“underhandedness ”

cause representative democracy is so underhanded. that’s why the dems had to run away to another state. cause “democracy” is only good when we’re in the majority.

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Once we rid the country of all employers and taxpayers the employees will have it much better.

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WOW,
I know alot of Bikers who would trade their Harley in for a Kowasaki if Harly broke its Union…just sayin’. Lot’s of people out there think Unions are more American than a Harley…truly.

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jm,
Don’t go there, it will only make you look foolish…

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Ho Hum, country after country in the ME is having turmoil. What is the Revolution du jour?

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AmVet: Yep, I too got NCAA hammered last night – only Florida moved on for me. In Republispeak it was unfortunate that those SDSU, Duke and Wisconsin losses happened to me.

You too!!?! I had SDSU over UConn and Duke in the Final 4! Good thing I don’t believe in gambling, ’cause I would’ve been broke and busted after ODU didn’t advance.

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Debbie,

“Sweat shops and child labor?” You confirm my suspicions, dear lady. You’re sounding more like Bookman every day.

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Bookman. Perhaps Bookman and all of the lib posters might offer suggestions as to how WI is supposed to pay for the demands of these union thugs without raising taxes on an already taxed to death state. How is Walker supposed to deal with this “encroachment into the lives of our dedicated and valued public servants?”

For the gazillionith time, please repeat after me, “It was about BARGAINING RIGHTS”. The union had already agreed to the proposed cuts in benefits, etc.

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Debbie, “Sweat shops and child labor?” You confirm my suspicions, dear lady. You’re sounding more like Bookman every day.

Did you happen to catch GG’s 9:15 a.m. post? Perhaps you should read that one — might be edifying……..

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Goodbye, Wisconsin.

We don’t need phony sting videos and outright lies to give ‘em hell. We just “give them the truth and they think it’s hell”, as a wise man once put it.

stands:

You would prefer they go about their dirty business without your knowledge? Ignorance is bliss?

Interesting.

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Right now they are talking about staging, how long before these nuts actually start a strategic “failed” assignation to win the game. I hope that they investigate and prosecute anyone who suggests these types of tactics to the fullest extent of the law. Then again, the WI gov is appointing legislative family members to the WSP and one legislator is shacking up with his young mistress after she got a new job with a significant payraise over the former holder of the job, so it looks like the Republican crooks are in charge….temporarily.

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Talk about sour grapes! Whenever Democrats lose something there is the inevitable whining and threats of pay-back. You saw this exercise in futility with the Al Gore defeat and the Florida Supreme Court fiasco. You heard the name calling and threatening retribution from Air America each time George Bush won election. You experienced the 8 year campaign of obstructionism and vitriolic rhetoric from the Democrats during Bush’s administration. The simple fact of losing political share as a result of poor political management by Democrats leaves them with nothing but egg on their faces. Just like children who are embarassed by thier misdeeds their only avenue for face saving is a threat to get even or “recall” mentality. To steal a quote from the triumphant Democrats after the presidential election…”you lost”. To the losers in Wisconsin…”we won”.

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DDR 9:25 – that’s so bogus. The fight over bargaining rights was a fight over the future budget.

Getting concessions but not ending politically corrupt bargaining rights for public employee unions is like taking away the 6 bullets currently loaded in a gun, but leaving the perp sitting in a warehouse of ammo, and leaving him the gun too.

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BADA BING:

“Ho Hum, country after country in the ME is having turmoil. What is the Revolution du jour?”

Seriously, the waiter is the Muslim Brotherhood and the menu is radical Islam.

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Lam should be disbarred also.

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Debbiie,

“Edifying?” I think it sounds a little stupid. If you think that we will return to sweat shops and child labor because the union thugs in WI are not getting what they want from the state, that 18 yr old horse is still for sale.

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Obama’s Cronies don’t have to pay their FAIR SHARE of Taxes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?_r=1&hp

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I have to wonder: many here on the Left cite political contributions by Wall Street/Corporate Interests to Republicans (I won’t go into whether that’s accurate – that it’s very far off donations to Democrats). Then, the reasoning goes, the bought-and-paid-for Republican politicians pass legislation resulting in tax breaks, subsidies, etc. and other laws favorable to corporate interests. This is portrayed as an outrageous situation.

Yet…. the Wisconsin situation, or any situation involving government employees who belong to a union granted pay-bargaining rights, where union political contributions flow overwhelmingly to Democratic politicians, with resulting agreements providing pay and benefits increases to union members, is portrayed not as a corrupt alliance but as… the result of collective bargaining?!!?

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Now, this and this, really are awesome news.

http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/what-revisions-of-tax-884590.html

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/ted-turners-bison-help-885608.html

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Mrs. Godzilla:

from Senate Bill 222 as proposed in the Missouri Senate (and this is a pdf). we note that the bill would repeal certain sections of law related to child labor (ALternet)

Work permit stipulations for children in the entertainment industry…motion picture productions, television or radio productions, theatrical productions, modeling productions, horse shows, rodeos and musical performances.

Can you say Hollywood?

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Thanks for the correction….mea culpa…

BUT

Let’s not miss the fact that the e-mail from the prosecuter in IN was sent to GOVERNOR WALKER’s office…..

And he just ignored it? His staff ignored it?

Come on, that’s some serious crap

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The political “radiation bias” at the AJC could never be more clearly heard on the “geiger counter of respectable journalism”!

(Sorry Jay: no one’s reading down below)

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Keep 9:43 – sorry, not clear here. What did he DO?

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Thanks for the attempted word lesson jm…….. still does not mean that your point is correct.

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jm

March 25th, 2011
9:35 am
As has been pointed out, a conservative of such stature as FDR admonished against the idea of public employee unions.

and has been debunked….

See FDR’s Letter To Union President Luther Steward Regarding Public Unions dated

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The mission in Libya is to increase the 1.41 million dollar multiplier.

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Donovan at 9:32……excellent, excellent post. It has been my contention all along that the day Al Gore was declared the loser was the day the liberal and Democrat Party lost their collective crap. That was the day the liberal and Democrat Party punched their vitrolic hate buttons to the “on” position. And we have been going downhill ever since.

And don’t get me wrong, the far right is no better and certainly not part of the solution.

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Debbie, Granny, Bookman,

Again, put yourself in Walker’s place and pretend that you would like to be fiscally responsible (that might be quite a stretch, however) with the Wisconsin taxpayer’s money. Pretend that you have just won an election by a fair margin and you ran on a platform of fiscal responsibility and were primarily elected to clean up the financial fiasco that those before you had failed to confront. Aside from raising taxes,(the ultimate liberal solution to any financial problem) how would you handle WI’s financial shortfall? Would you attempt to balance the budget or would you just kick it down the road to the next governor while the shortfall grows and you fall further into debt? Walker is trying to face reality here. I have yet to see a solid, well thought out idea about how to save money coming from WI democrats. The three of you seem to be in good company. Bookman doesn’t have a clue. All he does is publish scare letters from some GOP idiot and try to make us believe that Walker is somehow complicit because he is a Republican.

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The problem is that the unions have NEVER been for the children’s educational benefit, they are for members only benefit, they could care less if anybody gets an education…
Last time I looked the GOP has made gains in Wisconsin, and the democrats have run away from their jobs. Seems to me that the WI. Democrats don’t understand that election have consequences… What a bunch of sore losers, maybe the senate democrats will run away from DC.
Funny how in a state with the biggest short fall in the budget, biggest teacher union, with public funded retirement, public funded medical, and all the GOP wants is them to pay ½ of what the private sector pays, and this is call union busting by the democrats. As our fearless leader Obozo said, we all have to share in the pain; I don’t remember Obozo saying everybody but the unions…

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And of course the rest of the story on child labor laws….

Bill 222 also….

[294.021. No child under fourteen years of age shall be employed or permitted to work at any occupation at any time; except as provided in this chapter.].

those brackets mean this is a section of law whose repeal is proposed, and thus a child under 14 would no longer be limited in being able to be employed.

and

[294.024. A child may not be employed during the regular school term unless the child has been issued a work certificate or a work permit pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.]

Thus a child could now be employed during the school term without a work permit.

and

A child under 16 can work in motels/hotels – and without restrictions on hours – now that should raise some eyebrows.

and

No work permits would be required for those 15 or 16.

and

The authority of the Director of the Division of Labor Standards to oversee employers of children is eliminated.

Can you say complete story?

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WOW

Eugene Robinson?……….wasn’t he a db in the nfl a few years ago?

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Granny G – check around for the stories on Maine’s Governor and child labor laws too

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Looks like this Lam guy went to the Karl Rove School of Political Trickery. Glad the doofus was exposed for the POS he is. In my opinion the douche should be disbarred.

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Granny, you claimed that Walker and his staff ignored the e-mail. please tell us your source as to this knowledge?

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Granny, care to address the letter you brought up? Or, rather, I’ll accept you’ve conceded the argument.

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Jay,
Did you write that letter?

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Recalling Republican Senators. For what? Actually doing their jobs which is in sharp contrast to the Democrats who decided to run away from their job and hide….all on the taxpayer’s dime. Unbelievable.

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Recalling is not Granny’s forte.

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messed up the link @ 9.58–here tis again:

http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/lila_rose_big_time_liar_and_all_around_horrible_person/

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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/24/thousands-christians-displaced-ethiopia-muslim-extremists-torch-churches-homes-2057387870/

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Kayaker71: Debbiie, “Edifying?” I think it sounds a little stupid. If you think that we will return to sweat shops and child labor because the union thugs in WI are not getting what they want from the state, that 18 yr old horse is still for sale.

No I think we’re going to return to sweat shops and child labor because the oligarchy that runs America actually want it that way. Why else are they systematically going after the unions & government employees in America? They say unions are not needed, however unions are the one entity that stopped America from turning into Czarist Russia’s serfdom / 1919 revolution. If not for unions the working American, tired, hungry without money or healthy work conditions; would’ve risen up and taken over the counry, and all the money that the Getty’s, Carneigie’s etc., accrued would not have saved them from that old fashioned revolution that was a coming.

You think Unions are “thuggish”; however the coal miners who recently died in WV because of management’s non-response to dangerous working conditions are what? Saints?

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“however the coal miners who recently died in WV because of management’s non-response to dangerous working conditions are what? Saints?”

Martyrs

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Doggone, not saying it’s right or wrong, just sayin that Corporations will go where they get tax breaks. That’s a fact of life. You & I would do the same thing.

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jm

again…..I highlighted the part of collective bargaining above….

All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service

Collective bargaining as usually understood HAS NOT been translated into the public service unions. They cannot strike.

FDR woulda’ held Walker up to public ridicule for his actions in a fireside chat.

Do you get it yet?

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DebbieDoRight

Well said!!!

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So sad that our presidential nominees have to be “good looking” nowadays. Ala, Obama, Huntsman, Romney.

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Granny G – keep making things up as you go. Collective bargaining is a point about collective bargaining, not about striking. Although, incidentally, FDR was against that too.

Reading comprehension, not Granny G’s forte.

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“not saying it’s right or wrong, just sayin that Corporations will go where they get tax breaks. That’s a fact of life. You & I would do the same thing.”

Maybe. But the question is: if those same corporations have been doing just fine in WI BEFORE the tax breaks, why would they need one? Especially if it’s neccessary to pay for it on the backs of public service employees?

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Granny – let me help you out since your reading skills are lacking. The first para is about how PEU’s shouldn’t limit government’s flexibility on how to operate, hire, fire, and compensate gov’t workers. Para 2 is about striking, and how that is particularly abhorrent.

FDR was obviously against both. But feel free to make up the facts as you read. Granny, I applaud you for having a vivid imagination and engaging in selective interpretation. Marvelous.

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Debbie,

Czarist Russia? 1919 Revolution? You make my point very well. BTW, I have not seen one non-union automobile plant in the US rioting because thier “rights” are being violated. There has not been one person terminated in this recession in any of the non-union Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai plants in Alabama. Not one. Their wages and benefits equal or excel those of union members in Michigan. We could take a lesson from foreign car manufacturers who produce product in this country. They refuse to hire union workers. Ever wonder why?

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You get points for pointing out the bullets were found. You lose points for just now pointing this out (like most of the media that leans to the left). If this has been a Tea Party rally or protest and those bullets had been found – it would have been on the Front Page of every left leaning newspaper (and that’s most of them) in the country and Big News on all the Major Networks.

Labor Unions that are in contractual agreement with Private Companies should be able to colletive bargin. Their leadership understands that there is a ‘point of no return’ where their employees are ‘at risk’ if they as for more than a company can afford.

Labor Unions should not be able to collective bargin with Governments. The difference being that politicians and the unions tend to ‘tie in’ together and work up a plan that has the Tax Payer paying the bill.

The average teacher compensation (when benefits are factored in) is over six figures. The average Federal Employee average wage is now over $70,000 per year. Both of these figures ‘far exceed’ non government workers compensation and benefits.

It’s time to cut back here, just like private enterprise has been forced to do so. You can do it through contributions, change in salary or layoffs – but it needs to be done. Otherwise, you continue to add to the tax burden of the ‘very people’ that support those salaries that ‘out index’ their own.

Fair is Fair.

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When the left can’t win through votes by the people, they’ll attempt to win through activist judges.

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Apologies – Average Teacher Compensation w Benefits was for Wisconsin – not the National Number.

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Atlanta 1 – “Labor Unions that are in contractual agreement with Private Companies should be able to colletive bargin”

I disagree, but for reasons unrelated to the particularly bad concept of PEU’s. PEU’s stink.

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Del – or going on strike FDR would’ve lambasted the Dem legislators. He thought public workers going on strike was offensive. Now you have a whole party going on strike to stop government. Talk about government shut down. The Dems are up to their necks in hypocrisy. The Republicans, just up to their knees in it.

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jm

Well, you remain wrong.

Thanks to Media Matters:

But Roosevelt Signed Groundbreaking Legislation Protecting Collective Bargaining Rights

The National Industrial Recovery Act Of 1933 Guaranteed Collective Bargaining Rights For Unions. From the act:

SEC. 7. (a) Every code of fair competition, agreement, and license approved, prescribed, or issued under this title shall contain the following conditions: (1) That employees shall have the right to organize and bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and shall be free from the interference restraint, or coercion of employers of labor, or their agents, in the designation of such representatives or in self-organization or in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection;(2) that no employee and no one seeking employment shall be required as a condition of employment to join any company union or to refrain from joining, organizing, or assisting a labor organization of his own choosing; and (3) that employers shall comply with the maximum hours of labor, minimum rates of pay, and. other conditions of employment, approved or. prescribed by the President. [Transcript of National Industrial Recovery Act (1933), accessed 03/01/11, emphasis added]

The Tennessee Valley Authority Act Recognized Collective Bargaining Rights. In 1933, Roosevelt signed the Tennessee Valley Authority Act, which recognized the rights of employees to negotiate wages through “collective agreement.” From the act:

In the event any dispute arises as to what are the prevailing rates of wages, the question shall be referred to the Secretary of Labor for determination, and his decision shall be final. In the determination of such prevailing rate or rates, due regard shall be given to those rates which have been secured through collective agreement by representatives of employers and employees. [Tennessee Valley Authority Act, accessed 03/01/11]

The National Labor Relations Act Of 1935 Prohibited Employers From Barring Workers From Bargaining Collectively. The act also established the National Labor Relations Board to investigate unfair labor practices. From the act:

RIGHTS OF EMPLOYEES

Sec. 7. [§ 157.] Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection, and shall also have the right to refrain from any or all such activities except to the extent that such right may be affected by an agreement requiring membership in a labor organization as a condition of employment as authorized in section 8(a)(3) [section 158(a)(3) of this title].

UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICES

Sec. 8. [§ 158.] (a) [Unfair labor practices by employer] It shall be an unfair labor practice for an employer–

(1) to interfere with, restrain, or coerce employees in the exercise of the rights guaranteed in section 7 [section 157 of this title];

(2) to dominate or interfere with the formation or administration of any labor organization or contribute financial or other support to it: Provided, That subject to rules and regulations made and published by the Board pursuant to section 6 [section 156 of this title], an employer shall not be prohibited from permitting employees to confer with him during working hours without loss of time or pay; [National Labor Relations Board, National Labor Relations Act, accessed 03/01/11]

Roosevelt Also Campaigned In 1936 Promising To Continue Support For Collective Bargaining
Roosevelt: “Of Course We Will Continue Every Effort … To Support Collective Bargaining.” From a speech Roosevelt delivered on October 31, 1936:

Of course we will continue to seek to improve working conditions for the workers of America–to reduce hours over-long, to increase wages that spell starvation, to end the labor of children, to wipe out sweatshops. Of course we will continue every effort to end monopoly in business, to support collective bargaining, to stop unfair competition, to abolish dishonorable trade practices. For all these we have only just begun to fight. [Roosevelt's Speech at Madison Square Garden, 10/31/36, via the University of Virgina's Miller Center of Public Affairs]

In Fact, Roosevelt Touted Collective Bargaining As A “Splendid New Agreement” Between Labor And The Federal Government
Roosevelt Celebrated The Role Collective Bargaining Played In “The Biggest Consolidated Construction Job Ever Undertaken Directly By The National Government.” From Roosevelt’s speech at the Chickamauga Dam Celebration in 1940:

This national holiday – Labor Day – has been appropriately selected, because in the miracle that man has wrought, labor has played a vital role. In all of those seven years, in heat and in cold, men have drilled and blasted through solid rock, they have poured ton after ton of concrete and they have moved mountains of earth. They have worked with the strength of their hands, and they have operated complicated machinery with every form of modern skill. Never once in these years, in this the biggest consolidated construction job ever undertaken directly by the national Government, has there been a substantial interruption to the continuance of your labors. This Dam, all the dams built in this short space of years, stand as a monument to the productive partnership between management and labor, between citizens of all kinds working together in the public weal. Collective bargaining and efficiency have proceeded hand in hand. It is noteworthy that the splendid new agreement between organized labor and the Tennessee Valley Authority begins with the words “The public interest in an undertaking such as the TVA always being paramount …”

It is appropriate, therefore, that we recognize this signal achievement on the day when the whole nation pays tribute to labor’s contribution to the democracy that we are not preparing to defend. To all of you, therefore – all of you who have contributed to make these structures possible throughout this beautiful Valley of the Tennessee – I extend the Nation’s thanks. [Address at Chickamauga Dam, 09/02/40, via the University of Michigan's Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States]

more on the subject here

Sorry jm, but you remain flat out wrong…and I managed not to insult you in the process.

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“You’re dodging the bullet. Let’s have some constructive suggestions on how to solve WI’s debt problems”

How about this for a start: repeal the tax breaks for business passed in January

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Doggone….arent these the same companies that you want to create jobs?

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Del….AMEN!

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“arent these the same companies that you want to create jobs?”

Companies don’t create jobs…their customers do

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Doggone,

That’s a start. Next?

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Doggone….you are delusional!

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Sorry Granny – I was just referring to the letter you wanted to cite. FDR wasn’t opposed to union’s negotiating things like worker safety, for instance. But you continue to somehow think FDR was ok with collective bargaining over wages, hiring-firing, process management, etc. and he was not.

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Kayaker 71: “Perhaps Bookman and all of the lib posters might offer suggestions as to how WI is supposed to pay for the demands of these union thugs without raising taxes on an already taxed to death state.”

What demands? They ALREADY gave in to everything Governor Walker asked for EXCEPT giving up their collective bargaining rights.

Are you even following this story at all, or are just just parroting what others tell you?

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Investment that produces and grows a customer base creates jobs. Discourage investment and guess what happens.

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Yeah capitalism!

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“Investment that produces and grows a customer base creates jobs”

And if the customers don’t respond by buying, no jobs are created. Demand creates jobs, not the goodness of the company

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The voters of Wisconsin made their feelings clear last November. Governor Walker is doing exactly what he campaigned on doing. A nice change from politicians who say all the right things and then get into office and change their tune completely.

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It’s not about goodness, it’s about investing and creating demand for products and services, so as to realize profits. Some on here like to talk as though they’ve started, managed and grown a business when they never have.

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Joe,

No, I have been following this story very closely. The willingness of the teachers union to be part of the solution and not part of the problem is evidenced by their present occupation of the state house and their attempt at recalling 8 WI Republicans in a effort to gain back Democratic majority in the state house, thereby restoring all of the things that the “evil” Republicans have taken away from them. Now that’s a constructive solution, wouldn’t you say?

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GOP did exactly what I predicted…once in charge they push their draconian agenda appeasing their equally draconian far right loudmouth base. Then, once the smoke clears and average ( independent ) voters see their true agenda, the tide swiftly turns against them. I predict that if Wi succeeds in the recall…the GOP will have been “gutted” and “benign” in future elections. Where’s the popcorn…this is going to be the best show ever.

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“if a company is out of business it has no customers. Get it yet?”

And if a company has no customers it is out of business. Get it yet?

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Is President Obama the weakest Commander-in-Chief in US history?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100081318/is-president-obama-the-weakest-commander-in-chief-in-us-history/

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Morning Jay: Obama’s Achilles’ Heel? (the weekly standard)
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/morning-jay-obamas-achilles-heel_555476.html

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Doggone…..what comes first the company or the customers?

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Kayaker71: BTW, I have not seen one non-union automobile plant in the US rioting because thier “rights” are being violated.

thank the union for that.

There has not been one person terminated in this recession in any of the non-union Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai plants in Alabama. Not one.

that’s due to the LEADERSHIP of those companies, not the employees, who btw don’t make decisions regarding which cars to design, implement and market; nor do they have any input into who leads the company either.

They refuse to hire union workers. Ever wonder why?

If that’s true, in America, that’s called discrimination (asking about Union status on an application); and if any of those people who weren’t hired because of their alleged involvement with a union want to sue on the basis of this discrimination, I know a good law firm who’ll be more than happy to start a class action lawsuit against these companies.

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retired early – keep dreaming dude.

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I’ve decided that Cox Communications is staffed by idiots hostile to the military. My son was shipped to Japan on 12 hours notice last week, asked me to suspend his cable service until he gets back, since his assignment is of indefinite length. Cox required me to appear at their office with a copy of his orders, or allow me to fax a copy. Since telephone lines are out in his section of Japan, I asked if he could scan and email them a copy of his orders, and they affirmed that email is unacceptable. Unbelievable – an internet company wedded to fax technology. You’d think just for the sake of appearances they would want to look like they are in the 21st century. Cox – delivering tomorrow’s needs with yesterday’s technology.

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Unholy Trinity – EPA, OSHA, and Unions. None of which would exist in their current, job and business destroying forms without the overly large, intruding, welfare fostering, unconstitutional Federal Government.

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Bosch….you didnt answer the question.

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Bosch, quick question for you…how do companies begin? give you a hint it’s through $$$$. After which successful companies build what?

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WHY NO ARTICLES ON HOW OBAMA AUTHORIZED A WAR WITHOUT EVEN GOING THROUGH CONGRESS??

WHY NO ARTICLE ON HOW OBAMA HAS AUTHORIZED A WAR ON ANOTHER COUNTRY THAT POSES NO THREAT TO THE US??

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I’d like to see DebbieDoRight working as an operations manager in a Teamsters shop for ONE DAY like I used to do.

LMAO

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Del….he is not going to get it….his mind is already washed…

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kayaker 71

March 25th, 2011
10:20 am

Let’s have some constructive suggestions on how to solve WI’s debt problems.

That’s easy…quit giving their money away in tax breaks for the corporations and..you guessed it…the rich.

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Dave R: “Joe Mama, meet your mirror some day. I suppose you don’t realize that they still have collective bargaining right for their salaries, don’t you?”

Irrelevant when they have ALREADY given in on Gov. Walker’s salary demands. Are you even FOLLOWING this story, Dave?

Dave R.: “Who is the parrot now?”

Why, that’d be you, Dave. The inconvenient fact is that for all the shrieking Gov. Walker’s supporters are doing about how much the eeeeeevil union workers are costing the WI government, they have ALREADY agreed to give him EVERYTHING he asked them for — EXCEPT to give up their rights to collective bargaining. Why don’t you tell us how much the WI government will save due to all the givebacks the eeeeeevil unions have agreed to so far, Dave?

Dave R: “And you do realize that having collective bargaining rights for things besides salaries (i.e. benefits) also causes costs for the state to go up, don’t you?”

Not if the employees have already AGREED to all the salary and benefit cutbacks that Gov. Walker demanded of them.

I frankly don’t think you’re following this story at all, Dave.

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Del – technically, you can obviously start a company with that old fashioned sweat equity, with labor and not cash capital. and it still happens in modern times. heaven only knows, the way inflation is going to go, labor may be the only capital available in the future.

And customers and business are symbiotic. A business without customers does not exist. It’s not an issue of who comes first, they both need each other.

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“That’s easy…quit giving their money away in tax breaks for the corporations and..you guessed it…the rich.”

Liberals are so funny…”freedom” to them means taking anything they want from evil corporatins and rich people.

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“what comes first the company or the customers?”

Easy answer: the customers Customer create businesses by needing somthing and then being amenable to somone else providing it. They might COULD make it or do it for themselves, but they don’t always want to – or are able to, so they pay someone else to make it or do it. But the demand has to be there first, for someone to offe to do that service, or make that product.

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Joe Mama, you obviously can’t follow a progression from A to B to C, so I’ll not waste my time on you.

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“First I’m not an economist ”

Not only that, you’re not even particularly bright.

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Apologies to Jay – good form requires I comment on the topic du jour before venting on the incompetence of his parent company. There is no doubt that the survival of the democrat party is dependent on continued taxpayer funding through the closed-shop public unions of Wisconsin and similar antediluvian states.

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This is a WAR of Power..The Union’s who have the Democratic Party in their back pocket vs The Tax Payer. Make no means about it. The union leadership could care less about their members nor, in this case, about Education. They want control, they want dues automatically taken out of paychecks so they can fund their life style and use the money for influence to weild power. The Democrats are on the union’s payroll as they receive large amounts of donations fron the union bosses. Make no mistake, follow the money trail and see that this is totally about power of the union bosses and the democrates…nothing else. and for unions, ask Steel Workers, ask Eastern Air Llines, Ask auto workers..all have seen jobes go elsewhere because of union demands that made their jobs un competitive….and watch the rumors regarding SEIU that wants to stage an economic crises this May. Forget the one liners, this is war, supported by none other than OBAMA…so Jay, when it hits, I will be watching. disgusting, totally disgusting!

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Dear Paul @ 10:49, thanks for guidance, I’ll try that.

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oy

Until that point, the former business executive is likely to be battered by different candidates in each of the initial states. He’ll face an aggressive Tim Pawlenty in Iowa, the former governor from neighboring Minnesota, as well as a slew of other conservatives trying to outflank him on the right. Then it’s likely that former Utah Gov. and China Ambassador Jon Huntsman awaits in New Hampshire with what he hopes will be a coalition similar to the McCain 2000 model of moderate Republicans, independents and disaffected Democrats. After that, it could well be Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour hammering Romney from the right as a regional favorite son in South Carolina.

”The test is whether he can weather the shots early,” said longtime GOP strategist and Romney’s top 2002 gubernatorial adviser Mike Murphy. “It’s an unglamorous path, just sweat and muscle all the way through.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51921_Page2.html#ixzz1HcgwfKwz

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“the reason businesses are not out creating massive jobs is because they are scared”

That’s bullsh*t. The reason they are not creating jobs is because there is no demand for their services or products. If there was, do you think them being “scared” would stop them from doing business? That’s just dumb.

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Doggone…if anyone is touching bananas here, it may be sexual harrassment.

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HC 10:48 – dude, I just lost it on that one.

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“the reason businesses are not out creating massive jobs is because they are scared”

And they are scared because the demand for their goods/services is down. If the demand goes back up, the scare level will go down, and they will create jobs to manage their increased customer numbers.

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Bosch 10:51 – partially wrong.

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“Doggone 10:46 – wrong”

How willing would YOU be to sink your money and your energy into a company without knowing that there would be customers to pay you for the goods or services you think you can provide?

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A new Reuters/Ipsos poll released today reveals a striking lack of public confidence in President Obama’s ability as Commander-in-Chief, with just 17 percent of Americans describing his leadership as “strong and decisive”, compared to 36 percent who believe it is “indecisive and dithering”. This should come as no surprise as the Obama administration floundered for several weeks before even committing to international efforts to rein in Colonel Gaddafi.

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Debbie–Mrs. G–Bosch–AmVet–Doggone: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31510813/#42256716

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jm,

Partially? So what am I “wrong” about — you tell me how you maintain a business without customers. And that whole bit of “they are scared” is a dumb excuse.

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holy sh-t this is funny

Whatever the role of NATO in the Libyan mission, US leadership remains vital, both within the alliance and as part of any coalition of the willing. At this time, President Obama appears to have gone AWOL, leaving his Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to outline the latest US position. America is now engaged in military operations in North Africa, but led by a president who increasingly makes Jimmy Carter look like General Patton. This is not a moment for weakness and vacillation but a time for American assertiveness and self-confidence in the face of a monstrous tyrant who has brutalised his own people for decades and murdered hundreds of Americans.

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“so you are saying that ALL businesses out there are struggling and that is the reason they are not hiring?”

George,

What is it with you wingnuts and assumptions? No, that’s not what I’m saying, as all businesses are not struggling.

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Bosch 10:56 – well, demand is part of the problem. But so are government policies. Businesspeople don’t operate in a vacuum. Government has significantly changed the rules and costs they’re subject to. When a gopher gets hit over the head enough times, he stops coming out of his hole to look for dinner.

So being “scared” as a result of government policy isn’t BS. In particular, with smaller businesses or those with tighter margins. But you are correct in that demand is a problem. But it is not the whole problem.

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Midori……since when is there supposed to be a “seperation between business and state”???? How do these guys think up this crap.

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Bosch….I own several businesses…..two are doing very well and one is not. However I am not rushing out to hire anyone.

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jm,

I never said it was the whole problem. But any business owner that is scared of a government policy so much they close their business, well, they probably wouldn’t have made it anyway.

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I just died when reading this….

America is now engaged in military operations in North Africa, but led by a president who increasingly makes Jimmy Carter look like General Patton.

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Hi Midori!!

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Bosch 11:01 – its not about “closing their business”, its about not making decisions to expand it. Business works within an environment of uncertainty. Depending on the amount of uncertainty, they are either more willing, or less willing to make bold decisions. Obama’s decisions have expanded the scope and scale of uncertainty by immense proportions.

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Hi Midori!

I feel left out….

That video – got a kick out of “the two journalists who broke the story.” Broke the story? These guys been asleep. People on this blog have been talking about that for a long time!

“The unholy alliance between business and state.”

Okay, having heard that, I suppose I’ll repost my two on-topic posts. No followups, no one wanted to come out and play.

This is a high-stakes game that isn’t over. For Republicans, it’s about maintaining power.

For Democrats, it’s about maintaining a healthy cash flow and regaining political power.

Republican efforts weren’t executed very well, but it made sense politically. Unions, public employee and otherwise, contribute overwhelmingly to Democrats. Democratic politicians support union members’ goals of retaining/expanding pay and benefits.

My take is, Republicans figured the best way to deflate Democrats’ cash cow was to go after the source. Budget balancing was an ancillary issue. Money is the milk of politics. Democrats have an ample supply, Republicans went after the source.

Yup, it ain’t over, by a long shot -”

and….

“I have to wonder: many here on the Left cite political contributions by Wall Street/Corporate Interests to Republicans (I won’t go into whether that’s accurate – that it’s very far off donations to Democrats). Then, the reasoning goes, the bought-and-paid-for Republican politicians pass legislation resulting in tax breaks, subsidies, etc. and other laws favorable to corporate interests. This is portrayed as an outrageous situation.

Yet…. the Wisconsin situation, or any situation involving government employees who belong to a union granted pay-bargaining rights, where union political contributions flow overwhelmingly to Democratic politicians, with resulting agreements providing pay and benefits increases to union members, is portrayed not as a corrupt alliance but as… the result of collective bargaining?!!?”

Aren’t these topics funnnnnn?

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Midori….it is a blog moron!

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Midori

Oh, and we can’t let the obligatory comparison pass by -

The Right has the Koch brothers. The Left has Soros. Kinda evens out.

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Bosch 11:01 – you may not realize it, but even the below average additional employee is a $1 million capital investment by a company (over a reasonable time frame, on a present value basis, including all benefits, training, education, wages, etc). This is not a decision made lightly, especially by small business or even by larger ones.

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Bosch…..I have demand however hiring more people does not fit into my business model. Right now it just doesnt make sense.

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Paul – the right also has SC Johnson: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42259390/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

gotta go

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“The reason they are not creating jobs is because there is no demand for their services or products.”

I’m calling a partial BS on this one, Bosch. There are people out there called “entrepreneurs” who have the ability to see a demand before the market is ready for it, and there are some inventive people who create demand by developing things that people don’t know they need – yet.

Otherwise, how do you explain RONCO?

The people who are scared are the people who usually take the risks. And those are the ones who create the new jobs in any economy.

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“This is not a decision made lightly, especially by small business or even by larger ones”

Quite right, it is not…which is why corporate profits are up right now…even though hiring is still lagging. Because they can serve their existing customers with their existing employee levels.

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Doggone…..Quite right, it is not…which is why corporate profits are up right now…even though hiring is still lagging. Because they can serve their existing customers with their existing employee levels.

You actually said something 100% correct….WOW…..so why would they hire?

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“sounds like you should start a non profit company that is owned by the customers”

Why? I’ve never said anything about profits. What’s wrong with profits?

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Jay, anybody can draft an email like the one above. YOU are running a “false flag” staged attack with your article. Think about it. Let’s even assume for a moment this email is real. Some nut drafted it (there are nuts everywhere, some carry huge gavels through peacefully assembled crowds in Washington trolling for evening news sound bites, some claim electing a Republican would be tantamount to returning to the days when attack dogs were sent out to chase down Black people, some try to auction off Senate seats, some feign chumminess over a beer in an attempt to repair the damage of their stupid public pronouncements and falsely claim their health care agenda is going to save taxpayers money, etc.), it is clearly preposterous and dismissed as such at face value. YOU reprint it and shout “See, See, this is who they are”. Shame on you.

One of LAST people on this earth I would take at face value is you. You haven’t sunk to the depths of a Cynthia Tucker yet, but this article isn’t helping your cause.

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Doggone…..I dont know ask your fellow Dems or Obama. That makes a scene everytime a business posts large profit margins.

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Debbie….it is a tax break not a revenue stream. You are thinking they are making “TONS OF MONEY” off of the tax breaks just shows how far into LA LA land you live.

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This guy’s lost the liberals, the press, the moderates, and the independents.

Funny then how Obama’s Gallup numbers are still six points higher than that of Ronald Reagan’s at this point in his first term (March 1983 vs 2011).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx

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I wonder if Obama ran as a Repub of the Dems on this blog would still vote for him…..

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HEY GUYS GO TO AJC.COM AND LOOK AT THE PICTURE FOR THE JOBLESS CLAIMS ON THE MAINPAGE……NOTICE ANYTHING?

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George,

“…..I dont know ask your fellow Dems or Obama. That makes a scene everytime a business posts large profit margins.”

Really, I missed that news day.

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George,

I see a guy cutting the grass — but what’s your point?

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CRAP they changed the picture

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“so why would they hire?”

They wouldn’t. They don’t. BUT…they live in a social world, and not hiring is not the only CHOICE they have. They COULD, if they chose, hire (depending on the size of the business) one or more people they don’t REALLY need right now because working people spend more money than do those on unemployment.

More money to spend means they buy more goods and services, which means greater demand, which means more business. It’s the opposite of the “downward” spiral that lead to our current economic situation.

If most businesses had TEMPORARILY accepted lower profits in order to keep their employees on the payroll, the downward spiral that lead to the current unemployment rate might not have had such a devastating effect.

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None George, None.

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George,

Our economy has certainly thrived with tax rates higher than they are now. To me, the problem is the wages people make now. Whether or not people buy stuff has more to do with their wages, than what they are taxed, because we (businesses and individuals) are taxed very low compared to other countries.

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““They have enough wealth to go around”?”

Yeah, George I do. That concept is the basis for civilization as we know it, since man stopped wondering the countryside in nomadic tribes and settled into villages. It’s only been in the past three years that people have totally freaked out about that, and I don’t really know why.

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“Of import, the fact that it happens because self sufficiency is generally inefficient”

Certainly, but nevertheless, it’s still the customer that has to be there first for there to be a demand for a business to do some of that work.

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The people voted these republicans into office to take care of the government takeover and the republicans did just that. The Democrates ran like cowards they are because they need the unions to make sure they keep power over WE THE PEOPLE. This shows that government does not care what WE THE PEOPLE WANT

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WE DO NOT NEED MORE OR HIGHER TAXES, WE NEED TO CUT SPENDING! Why is that so hard, every household in America has had to so why do politicians find it so hard?

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George,

“Bosch you must be comparing the US to countries that tax higher because their kings live in compounds and 99% of the people live in huts.”

Nope, but I certainly see us heading in that direction considering the wealth disparity we have seen in the past couple decades.

Again, it’s all about the wages people are making, not the taxes. To me, THAT’S the 800 lb. elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. All we hear from those on the right is “wealth envy” which is a lame excuse not based in reality.

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Butthead – funny question. As a guy pointed out today: fixing our government, our budget deficit, etc. is not really that hard. All it takes is a set of politicians willing to not get re-elected.

Therein lies the problem.

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“Bosch……the past three years???? Really? So you think if a socialist minded or Marxist president attempted to run in say 1940 the American people would not have an issue with it?”

Well by today’s standards, FDR was certainly more of what you could call a socialist than Obama.

Again, that concept is the basis for civilization as we know it today. For some reason you people are freaking out about it as if it’s something new imagined by the boogeyman in the White House.

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“Bosch……It is all about wages people are not making……Free society you are welcome to go to another job. Or educate yourself and move into a new field.”

And just how realistic is that? Sure you can do that, everybody is free to do what they want, and opportunities abound, but how realistic is for a family to just jump up and move to a new job, or dad/mom drop their job to go back to school?

That’s certainly a theory vs. reality way of thinking there George.

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Bosch….the fact is we are not a socialist or marxist society….I dont care if it was FDR, Obama or Mickey Mouse…..that premise scares businesses and most citizens.

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Doggone- I dont think so. The Repubs in that state went against public opinion, gave big businesses tax breaks that dont work to create jobs etc. The Democrats finally stood for what they believed. The law will be reversed and sanity will be restored as a result. This Governor and the Repubs. took away collective bargaining rights even though workers were will to pay for more of their pension, health care and other expenses. RECALL RECALL RECALLLLLLLLL

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Bosch 11:31 – actually, George is on target and your thinking is outside of reality. If you want to sit in OK while the dust bowl consumes you, go right ahead. But that’s not very realistic.

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SoCo 11:32 – it has everything to do with budgets

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I see poor jm is still jobless. Too much time on his hands.

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GeorgeW: Debbie…..those tax breaks may be what is keeping them in business in the first place. Many companies have failed business models and are barely hanging on by a thread.

Well then it’s just a matter of time before they fail completely – with or without these tax breaks.

These tax breaks allow them to stay open, provide services to the public and employ citizens of the community.

I understand your perspective since you are a businessman, but anyone with a “failed business model” should fail and not be carried by the community. If I were to say “Oh this woman,Martha, who has 5 kids and has worked only minimally in her life, has asked us to bankroll her life with assistance vouchers & programs, (because her two oldest children “give back” the community by helping the elderly cross the street), what would you say to that? I think You’d scream bloody murder.

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Butthead- your right lets cut spending but at the same time tell the big businesses who received bailouts to pay everything back and start employing people. The bailouts were from both parties- the rich got richer and the average middle class got poorer.

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I can save money right NOW for ALL government agencies, impose the FairTax, abolish the NEA, and you would only need 1\10 th of the IRS budget to collect taxes….

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SoCo 11:32 – it has everything to do with budgets

Bullsh*t!!!! The mayor of LA just NEGOTIATED a new deal with the unions where they’re changing pension plans. Walker himself had the unions agree to the budget demands he asked for, yet he still wanted to end collective bargaining. If it were about the budget, Walker would have accepted the concessions, or countered with an even larger demand. You can peddle that crap somewhere else, jm. I deal with bs artists on a daily basis, and know it when I see it.

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Taxpayer 11:35 – incidentally though, you just revealed your true stripes as a heartless liberal fraud.

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Lynn, the problem IS the 77,000 pages of corporate tax breaks they call the tax code, the FairTax eliminates ALL of that…

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Well Y’all…just got back from a meeting and it was all good. We picked up some contracts and one was for 50+ million. Looks like we will be hiring again when the wheels start turning. There certainly was a collective sigh of relief from all of us. Life is good.

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Bosch….

“No it doesn’t because we are the richest capitalistic country on the planet. Our economy is number one — and through all that, there are certain parts of our country that are “socialism” or whatever catch phrase du jour y’all’ve come up with. ”

Isnt this the same economy that you are bit@hing about not creating jobs? Come on man you cant have it both ways.

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Bosch 11:42 – not yet. I wish…..

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SoCo: It’s all about the GOP trying to destroy a major part of the Democratic Party fundraising machine.

Paul made the same observation.

we have cronyism going on to the point that politicians are killing the city/state/country just to keep their buddies in business to keep the campaign donations coming.

Yeah. What SoCo said. No doubt.

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Congratulations normal, I just love hearing good news in the middle of the day….it smells like victory…

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Southern Comfort (aka The Man)

March 25th, 2011
11:38 am

SoCo,
Good morning, my friend. I think Walker said it all in his phone conversation with the pseudo-Koch brother. Walker is mental, period.

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I’ll summarize: inordinate power wielded by the unions with their collective bargaining rights means as soon as a Dem (or even an R without a spine) gets in office, they will wield their power to fund and re-elect them over them and re-negotiate previous agreements.

Thieves cannot be reformed, only stopped by imprisonment

As I said, pure bullsh*t. I don’t hear any uproar over the influence that the Chamber of Commerce wields over politicians. I don’t hear the same uproar over corporations giving limitless money to officials to stack the deck in their favor. If you really believe in the “inordinate power” theory, you would be a staunch advocate for complete election reform to remove ALL outside money. Yet, I haven’t heard you make a peep about that.

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jm

March 25th, 2011
11:46 am
Normal is mental. Period.

Never denied it, jm…

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SoCo 11:46 – because the government doesn’t pay the Chamber of Commerce. But for the record, I do think there are times when they do wield too much influence.

Corps don’t give limitless money to officials. That’s illegal.

And I have argued that outside money should be gone. But that’s easier said than done.

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DDR – true. Deal being gov is shocking. I hope he goes to jail. One can only hope the guy has a measure of humility though. Who the hell knows.

I’m hoping he goes to jail and we can elect Sam Olens.

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Hey SoCal and Vet, I have a video for you.

ENJOY!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRBOju_agL4&feature=related

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Debbie…..what did Deal do?

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George, BH, and jm, you guys are trying to have big picture discussions with little picture thinkers. Good luck!!

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I don’t think Governor Walker would have to stage anything. All he would have to do is walk into the union thug crowd and he would be toast. These union folk are hardcore socialists who are bent on doing whatever is necessary to maintain their lazy lifestyles.

A referendum was set in Wisconsin when the state elected this honorable man: they wanted to REIGN IN GOVERNMENT ON ALL LEVELS! The governor is doing what he was elected to do–HOW REFRESHING! LET THE MAN DO HIS JOB, YOU RED UNION THUGS!

God Bless,
Bill

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rb

Which side is right? Which side is wrong? Well of course my side is right on he other I’ll heap scorn…..

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bill orvis

Got a second? Want to discuss unions with you…

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Mick…..I will gladly “discuss” unions with you.

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george w

Thanks, but I need bill orvis for a reason…

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jm

March 25th, 2011
11:49 am
“Corps don’t give limitless money to officials. That’s illegal.”

Not with the recent ruling by the Supremes: Citizens United vs Federal Election Commission!! Supremes cut corporations campaign contributions LOOSE…and who’re they paying!!!???

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Retired…….What the Repubs did in WI was GREAT!! Watch it start to happen all over the country.

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HDB – you mean the SCOTUS overturned MCCAIN – feingold bill? Started and sponsored by a Republican.

World’s not as simple as you think. Call your congressman and complain about the SCOTUS all you want then….

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george w

All over the country repub governors have overreached….they have fired up the middle class so we can thank them for that…

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These are your Rep you voted for back in Nov, Rush, Hannity, Palin, rich conservatives tricked you idiots once again, lets make Obama the boggy man, while middle class, poor whites get scared and we line our pockets and go to the back..
Teachers, Fireman, in Wis, Oh, unions are headed to the soup line thanks to the Rep trying to destory unions, they also are trying to pass a bill, if you strike you can not get food stamp, so your kids starve, these are satan Rep party at their best.

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I owe Mick a sugared fizzy beverage.

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Stands….oh that is right you are for the union gangster thugs? I forgot…..

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incidentally though, you just revealed your true stripes as a heartless liberal fraud.

I’ve been had. I cannot deny it — I am neither heartless or liberal.

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It’s constitutional and legal to force car insurance, homeowners insurance, why not health?

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ookkkkkkayyyyyy

1) Deal’s ethics violations in the house:

“It is undisputed that as a ‘public servant,’ Representative Deal took active steps to preserve
a purely state program, one that had generated financial benefit for Representative Deal
and his business partner. Further, while taking these steps, Representative Deal used
resources of the House of Representatives”

– United States House of Representatives
2010 Office of Congressional Ethics Report

PS: he claimed to have been acting on behalf of his constituents: his business partner and the “fellows who work in [his salvage business] office

2) Deal not disclosing the fact that he had declared bankruptcy on his application for governor, (even though he was supposed to — said he forgot)

3) Deal named one of the “15 Most Corrupt Members of Congress”

4) Almost immediately after Deal’s personal financial distress hit the front pages, the Associated Press reported that Deal and a business partner are on the hook for another $2.85 million in loans for their auto salvage business. Deal failed to report that loan on the required state financial disclosure form.

and on and on and on…..

I can’t believe you really asked me “what’s wrong with deal!”

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george w

Union gangster thugs vs capitalist banker thugs?

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Mick….I will take the later any day!

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Stands…..you actually just made me laugh outloud……hahaha

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walker is a tyrant like daffy and will be treated like daffy.

Now, the gop are upset on his educations cuts.

They should unite for his recall.

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jm
March 25th, 2011
12:02 pm

McCain-Feingold focused on these points:

Soft money in campaign financing – Citizens United just let corporations send as MUCH money to campaigns as they desire……..

Issue ads – Corporations can form their own PACS – and 527s under Citizens United – look how much money they gave to GOP candidadtes in the ‘10 election

Controversial campaign practices during the 1996 federal elections – Citizens United let loose corporate contributions AND the Chamber of Commerce; they can do ANYTHING they want to now…….

Increasing political contribution limits for private individuals – under corporate mantra, private individuals can give as much as they want……

McCain-Feingold has almost been neutered by the Supremes…….

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HDB 12:10 – well, not much can be done then, can there. SCOTUS said money is free speech (or whatever their argument was). You should go protest at the steps of the SC.

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Hey noone answered my question……should Obama be impeached for not getting the approval from Congress for going to war? Biden says “yes”.

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“McCain-Feingold has almost been neutered by the Supremes…”

They overturned that precedent because the sc are corporate activists.

Lets get real.

They changed our country and I marked the date:

http://getalife-gotalife.blogspot.com/

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jm

The resident expert on many issues here, I don’t recall any times you’ve seen the light other than your views….is it do as I say but don’t do as I do?

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w,

I lawyer sait it was legal.

Sound familiar?

Give it a rest con.

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Getalife…..a judge said it wasnt!

Give it a rest fool!

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George…..how can you compare a Chamber of Commerce to a union. A chamber of commerce cannot….

* Enforce a strike
* Negotiate wages through collective bargaining.

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they have to look at a rust belt state that is gaining almost no population

Have you ever been there? I haven’t, although Madison sounds like a cool place. and I hear the XC skiing is outstanding. I could be pretty happy there.

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Paul….please tell me what process the president must take before enacting war.

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Hey getalife

Last night was interesting. One of the more conservative conservatives said we should look out only for ourselves, let our allies fend for themselves. So I asked if he’d be willing to cut the Defense budget that goes for defending our allies.

He would…. not….. answer…..

Ask him if it was Education or Agriculture, where we’d cut half of their mission but give them more money to do it, I bet he’d be screaming.

So much for cons being concerned about wasteful spending, eh?

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Ragnar

Glad it worked out well for you. And best wishes to your son – they don’t call it ’service’ for nothing.

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george w

Which president said this, “I took the isthmus and left congress to debate it”?

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Enter your comments here

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Mick…..if it wasnt Obama it doesn matter….he is president NOW.

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See…..Biden says Obama should be impeached!!!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dfe_1300998025

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Wisconsin voters will feel different when they realize their budget has been balanced and that there are less greedy pigs feeding at the public trough.

A 12% cut in in retirement and health care benefits is not unreasonable for Wisconsin teachers when many private sector employees don’t even have jobs to begin with in the Obama economy. Its completely and utterly illogial that teachers think they should keep all their taxpayer paid for benefits when people all around them are suffering far worse.

Interesting read in the WSJ yesterday on the nation of Portugal and their lackluster education system which has been the biggest drag on their economy. The country is in need of a bailout and their education system is by far the worst in Western Europe. The biggest obstacle to education reform in their absymal education system? You guessed it- disproportionately powerful teacher’s unions.

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SoCo 12:16 – fine.

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george w

It does matter because all presidents use the power of the executive branch. It was teddy roosevelt when he took panama from colombia. He eventually paid them 25 million for it but I don’t think they ever cashed the check, they were too proud…

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George W

You sure Obama was president when that was recorded? And that Pres Obama was lying about intel on Iran? If he was, I’ll have to rethink things….

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SoCo 12:16 – also, not that you’re trying to provide support for your side of the argument (RE WI), but if you ever do, I look forward to reading them.

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getalife,

Do tell about this 53 billion. Is the government literally giving 53 billion dollars to big oil?

Or is the govt simply taxing them less in the way of 53 billion in tax incentives for drilling? There is a big differenc.

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Debbie,

I did skim over it but thanks for the details.

Thomas should be impeached.

They never learn the lesson of no regulations destroy or don’t care.

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DEBBIE DO RIGHT -Yes that “earning a living wage” thing is soooooo anti-American! We need to get back to the days of sweat shops and child labor, – which government employee unions fixed poor working conditions and child labor laws??

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doom

Education should be exempt from cuts. Remember, this is our future and wisconsin has a proven, excellent school system. Also you should remember that in order to teach you need to have at a minimum a bachelor’s degree, these people are not getting rich by any stretch. In all the other civilized countries teachers are rewarded and respected but here in the US, they have been made public enemy #1 by these sick repub governors, to h$ll with them…

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w,

tard?

Judges have ruled the mandate is legal but you should not be calling anybody that name when you are wrong about everything.

You are mentally challenged due to the mental disorder called conservatism.

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George W

What I heard was in reference to a president who might

act alone

with manufactured reasons

against a country that had no humanitarian crisis and that was not threatening us

without any partnership, such as UN

Are you really making the case that’s what happened with Pres Obama and Libya, where

The UN passed a resolution calling for action for humanitarian reasons

Where we acted with other nations (not unilaterally)

Where there was no manufactured evidence used to justify the action

You see those as the same?

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doom,

It’s welfare.

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Hi DDR! The ruling was 7-1?!!? Reading further, it appears, what’s the language lawyers use, it was decided on procedural grounds, not upon its merits?

Hey Paul!! On a technicality actually. Hopefully the Agricultural department will fight back, (although some see it as a win because the Supremes didn’t say they couldn’t, in the future, based on findings/research deny Monsanto’s patent). Interesting that Clarence (The Man) Thomas didn’t recuse himself though isn’t it?

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dB

I’ve been to Milwaukee, and it’s a cool place. It was mid February, so I didn’t get the full sightseeing tour in, but I do want to go back sometime during the summer.

jm

My opinion on WI is that the unions should have given in to what Walker demanded w/o delay. I think that the public sector workers could pay more of their benefits. Public sector work does not pay that well for the rank and file worker anyway, so the benefits are the great equalizer.

I actually think that all public workers should have a deal similar to what we have at the fed level. We have a three-part retirement plan. One part Social Security, one part defined pension, and one part 401k. If the market does well, then my retirement does well. If not, I’m screwed as SS and the pension alone is not enough to retire on. While people try to paint some grand picture, fed employees are at the whim of the markets just like private sector employees. The only feds who have a cushy retirement pension are elected officials, and if you’ve noticed, they never bring up their own retirement plans when they criticize the rank and file workers.,

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paul

It’s simply a beutiful day here in paradise, nothing complex about it. Heading down to the keys later this afternoon with my girl for some fun, minimal imbibing, and of course, key lime pie..

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taxpayers making over $250,000 made 25.7 percent of all income, but paid 46 percent of all taxes. Now, the Tax Foundation’s Scott Hodge reports that well-off Americans are not only taxed heavily – they’re taxed more heavily than anywhere else in the developed world.

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Granny Godzilla:

Only your ignorance would think that Gov. Walker could have the power to fire someone who don’t even work for him… The guy was is from Indiana. LOL… The looney left never ceases to amaze me… Go back to bed…

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w,

Half the story when other judges said was legal.

I doubt the sc will strike it down because the mandate is corporate welfare.

sc are corporate activists.

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Obama cut taxes so what is your point?

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Getalife…..no the SC’s role is to uphold the constitution. There is NO way this makes it through….you can wish all you want but that doesnt mean it will happen…..

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George W

True enough. I was thinking back to the other day when the same argument was being made ref: Biden.

But ‘unilateral’ is, I think, clear from his words and from history. Remember, there was no talk of UN support for a strike on Iran (UN was fine with sanctions, not direct military action). There was no talk of including others on any strikes. In fact, we would work hard to make sure a prominent ally – Israel – was kept at arm’s length.

But back to my earlier points – the request for clarification on what you mean by ‘enacting war’ – what’s that mean?

And my question how is what happened in Libya the same as what was thought about for Iran, that could in any way justify VP Biden’s remarks as applying to this situation.

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Paul….the fact that he engaged in an act of war without congressional approval does. Watch the video again.

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Mick

Lucky guy!

I lived in Sarasota before I moved here. Still miss it….. lots….

Have your read any Carl Hiassen? Columnist with the Miami paper, I think whenever he comes across a shoddy or corruption case involving local politicians and businessmen he can’t verify with a second source, he files the info and uses it in one of his books. They all take place in Florida – like the one about the mobster from Detroit who gets put in witness protection in Florida and finds out he fits right in with the local business leaders……

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Paul, do you ever feel guilty for wiping the floor with some of the people here?! (LOL and hat tip getalife.)

I am definitely not in the mood for suffering fools gladly today, and as I’ll likely be out with friends this evening, I’m going to get a head start on FNM and crank up some tasty tunes.

This first offering is from my musical muse. (Dance music for the intelligent and philosophical…)

We always have the time to quarrel
About such problems as money and war
Let’s put it off until tomorrow
Who needs another dose of sorrow?

It don’t necessitate an act of faith
To chant for love
What alibi is strong enough to wait
To chant for love
Though we don’t hold the reigns of power
Somebody else seems to be in control
We mustn’t waste another hour
We’ll get directly to the soul
If we can

Chant
For a world united
Chant
For a world that’s dying for love

The Hare Krishna plays a drum and bell
When he chants for love
The tribal priest is afraid of hell
So he chants for love
I am not pushing some religion
Don’t get me wrong,
I never mess with such things
Just be true to your own vision
This is your personal decision

The Dervish spins to a “Hu Hu Hu”
When he chants for love
Nobody knows what the angels do
When they chant for love
You’re at the bottom of the ladder
Someone may try to tell you where you should start
But the words, they never matter
If you can feel it in your heart
Then you can

Why don’t you chant?
You can chant
Chant, chant, chant …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYVuG3haMVk

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The only feds who have a cushy retirement pension are elected officials, and if you’ve noticed, they never bring up their own retirement plans when they criticize the rank and file workers.,

HA!! I noticed that too…….I wonder why they won’t put the same spotlight on their plans/salaries/peks as they do on the Unions?

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getalife

March 25th, 2011
12:36 pm
doom,

“It’s welfare”

getalife,

Just so that we are on the same page let me ask the question yet again in a straightforward fashion. Is the govt making 53 billion in direct transfer payments to big oil or is the govt considerig 53 billion in tax incentives for big oil? Which is it genius? Its not a difficult question sir.

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I guess syria is next.

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George W

How do you define “act of war”?

Do all such acts require Congressional Approval?

Can military forces ever be used and not require Congressonal approval?

What if it’s an action we deem nonmilitary but the person on the receiving end calls it an act of war? Would the US have to stop while the pres goes to Congress?

What about Article 2, Section 2?

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Thulsa Doom — yet that’s exactly what happened.

The only sticking point was collective bargaining rights; the unions agreed to everything else Gov. Walker asked for.

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So, what’s this talk about Obama. He cut taxes for the wealthy. He took us into not one but two or even more wars without congressional approval. He refuses to stand beside the unions. He keeps running up the debt and deficit. He continues to bail out Wall Street. He’s a closet Republican. I guess he’s guaranteed to get re-elected by a landslide. That junior Reagan. The Bush not so Lite.

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AmVet at 12:48

I was going to say that your post is as dumb as my box of rocks. But I like my box of rocks. I will not dishonor them in such a fashion.

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Total GA budget cuts since 2009: $2.9 Billion. Missin that?

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There is growing awareness in this country that the full cost of using oil for transportation is “subsidized” — that is, gasoline prices paid by consumers do not reflect the full economic cost to society. The true cost is hidden by myriad direct and indirect public subsidies, which include

“hidden” environmental costs caused by motor vehicles, namely air, water, and noise pollution
This hidden system of oil subsidies has created an energy policy by default—a policy that is actually the reverse of stated national priorities. Oil industry subsidies further our dangerous dependence on foreign oil supplies and burden taxpayers with unacceptable costs to human health, the environment, and the economy.

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Mick, my Midwestern naivety is legendary and I have a funny Key West story.

About twelve years ago I was down there for the first time and was in one of the innumerable t-shirt, etc shops with my girl.

Of course there are thousands of post cards with scantily clad girls on them. I called her over and said, “Hey they have postcards for the girls too.” (Beefcakes in thongs.) She just looked at me and smiled and said, “Honey, those aren’t for the girls”.

I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry!

(Duh! It is Key West!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56nHBah7mdE

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AmVet

Some people have earnest views. But when I try to find the basis for them, it frankly appears the overriding factor is “Do I or do I not like the guy in the White House?”

Don’t know if you saw earlier – last night Sinkwich – said we should defend our interests, let allies fend for themselves. No more helping them. So when I pointed out a huge part of defense budget goes to protect allies, he’d agree we could cut that, right?

Man, the avoidance and diversion made some posters here look like rank amateurs.

Cut the mission in half and increase the funding for it. The neocon outlook never ceases to amaze – (okay, Sinkwich, don’t know if you’re a neocon, so don’t get offended. It’s a figure of speech).

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heading to lunch.

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Mick

I was sleepy last night and started reading ‘Star Island.’

My laughing kept me awake.

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No need to obsess over me Thelma. There are plenty of other legs here for you.

I’m supposing you are one of those with some serious floor wax on that large forehead of yours, courtesy of our resident kickass Texan…

Carry on, Paul…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwj6ZGMF_uA

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It’s sad when a couple of libs on this blog think that “offing” any Supreme Court justice is “hilarious”.

Just sayin’.

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