The high-stakes labor fight in Wisconsin gets more intense
Wisconsin has seen a lot of political drama over the last couple of months, but in many ways the real fight there has barely begun.
Wisconsin Democrats, for example, are trying to force recall votes against eight Republican state senators, and they claim to be succeeding. They need to throw out three Republicans to regain control of the state Senate, and as the Washington Post reports, they sound pretty optimistic.
“We’re well ahead of schedule,” said Graeme Zielinski, Wisconsin Democratic Party spokesman. “I think in mid-summer, you will have a Democratic Senate.”
That would be quite a turn of events.
However, Wisconsin voters won’t have to wait until summer to make their sentiments known. As it turns out, state Justice David Prosser is up for re-election on April 5, a fact that ordinarily might not mean much. But back in December, shortly after the victory of Gov. Scott Walker, Prosser had aligned himself closely with the new governor, telling Wisconsin voters that his re-election to the court meant “protecting the conservative judicial majority and acting as a common sense complement to both the new administration and legislature.”
With Walker now down in the polls, acting as a judicial complement to the governor suddenly isn’t all that popular. It didn’t help matters when it was revealed last week that in court deliberations, Prosser had called the state’s chief justice “a total bitch” and promised to “destroy” her. He later explained that while he might have overreacted, “it was entirely warranted,” blaming his colleague for “deliberately goading people into perhaps incautious statements.”
In other words, she had it coming.
Finally, there’s the story of one Carlos Lam. On Feb. 19, he sent Gov. Walker an email, lauding him for his stance against unions and offering a bit of advice. Drawing upon his 18 years of experience in politics, Lam suggested that Walker stage on attack on himself, perhaps by someone using a firearm, to discredit the union opposition.
There are a lot of crazies out there, but in this case, the man advocating the staging of a felony attack on a public office is — or more accurately, was — a deputy prosecutor in Johnson County, Indiana. Lam resigned that post yesterday after initially denying, then admitting, that he had indeed sent that email.
It’s impossible to know how often such “false flag” operations are actually carried out. For example, it’s interesting to note that a couple of weeks after the Lam email was sent, while union protests continued at the Capitol, Capitol police reported finding dozens of .22 caliber hollow-point bullets secreted at three entrances to the building.
Nobody knows who put them there, or why. But these days, you can’t take anything at face value.
– Jay Bookman
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636 comments Add your comment
Thulsa Doom
March 25th, 2011
2:11 pm
Adam at 2:07,
No Adam. You are approaching it from the view point that you and or the govt are entitled to that money that the oil company earns- that it is your money. It is not.
When the govt lowers a tax rate they are simply taking less money of what somebody else earned. Why can you not understand this very basic concept?
Dave R.
March 25th, 2011
2:12 pm
“Here is clue, tell it to palin.”
Here’s a clue – you ain’t Palin (you probably don’t have the legs for it). Either way, I’m not on her blog, and she never called for, nor laughed at the thought of “offing” a SC justice.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 25th, 2011
2:12 pm
I have to admit. That was pretty funny.
It sounds funny, but I’m dead serious. There’s no huge demand for immigration officers in the private sector. If I were a legislative aide, accountant, or IRS Agent, then I’d be of use to some private firm. I’ve met many a person who’s worked for the government and left to earn high-5 and low-6 figure salaries. I just had the wrong calling, I guess…
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 25th, 2011
2:13 pm
Y’all have fun. It’s time for me to hit the road. Play nice this weekend….
Later.
getalife
March 25th, 2011
2:16 pm
I am not a quitter dave.
Dave R.
March 25th, 2011
2:17 pm
“Good to see you flip flopped on this issue and too bad you did not condemn the rhetoric from the right before the shooting.”
getalife, understand this: I never, ever flip-flop on an issue. My beliefs are rooted in basic common sense and firmly set. Two, I do not speak for “the right”, nor am I aware that there were any calls to “off” anyone before the Giffords shooting. If there was specific language such as was used above, I would have condemned it no matter which side it came from.
If you can’t hanle that truth, tough.
Get Real (the original)
March 25th, 2011
2:18 pm
Attention Progressive Liberals
The Goonions are Done; put a fork in them
The Indiana Governor had the same drop in the poll after he changed collective bargaining by executive order. Once the fiscal results on the decision became clear, he won re-election in a walk away…
ButtHead
March 25th, 2011
2:21 pm
Taxpayer,
Nice way to avoid giving an answer, so if I don’t own a car is the government going to force me to buy insurance for it? Since you won’t answer a simple question I will, the answer is NO. So why is it OK for the government to force you to buy something?
getalife
March 25th, 2011
2:22 pm
If I took the time to research your comments (can’t stomach that) I would probably find you are a typical con that has made the same comments.
After all the lying, I just can’t believe a word a con spews.
You cried wolf too many times.
That is the truth.
Thulsa Doom
March 25th, 2011
2:23 pm
Joe Mama,
Same with you as with Southern Comfort,
We’ll just have to agree to politely disagree on the impact of unions.
Have I lived in a union state? Oh yeah. Born yankee in NY my family is from NY Buffalo area on dad’s side and Pittsburgh coal miners on mom’s side. Heavy union experience. All my uncles were in unions and practically all of them from the coal miners in Western Penn to my auto plant uncles who’ve since retired from Buffalo. Oddly enough they all have mixed feelings and lately bad feelings about unions. The unions enabled them to get good pay from their jobs back in the day- nothing wrong with that. But my uncles in the GM plant just hated the work slowdowns and strikes and blamed the unions.
The unions in coal mining were great- better pay and working conditions-badly needed for my family of blue collar eastern European transplants earlier in the century.
My sister in law in Montgomery is in a teacher’s union. The school she teaches at had a horrible mold problem that developed from standing water on the roof from a once in 500 year rainstorm that occurred about the same time as the storm that hit Cobb county 2 years ago. Half the teachers had to take medical leave due to the mold problem and the union is what protected their jobs.
Bottom line is that I see the benefit of unions- even public unions but I just think they’ve gotten way too powerful. That’s all.
getalife
March 25th, 2011
2:26 pm
Do you think corporate power in government has too much power too doom?
Probably not.
Do you see the conflict?
Probably not.
Blinded by ideology.
Thulsa Doom
March 25th, 2011
2:27 pm
DebbieDoRight,
One last thing and then I’ve got to get going. Let’s say big oil got the 53 billion in tax incentives to extract more oil. When the oil is extracted and brought to the consumer in the form of gas then guess what? The govt is then getting to get back all that tax money and then some in the form of taxing all that gas that gets brought right back to market. And you can bet its going to be more than what they gave in tax incentives to begin with. Did this thought never occur to you?
DebbieDoRight
March 25th, 2011
2:32 pm
Doom did you read the part where I said that they also (the Gov) “subsidize” explorator research in other countries? If this was all only “oil” companies doing the exploring by themselves, then why are is we the people paying for it? Shouldn’t a company stand or fall on its own?
Thulsa Doom
March 25th, 2011
2:33 pm
getalife,
Yes. Corporate power has too much power in govt life- too many lobbyists, too much power, too much feeding at the trough by too many people including corporations.
For example the farm subsidies go mostly to gigantic corporate farms and monstrous companies like Monsanto. There are even foreigners and believe it or not Arab oil sheiks who farm the U.S. govt farm subsidy program. Its enough to piss you off.
And then there are companies such as google which pay a shamefully low corporte tax rates because their servers are overseas such as in Bermuda.
Dave R.
March 25th, 2011
2:33 pm
“If I took the time to research your comments (can’t stomach that) I would probably find you are a typical con that has made the same comments.”
And you would be wrong – as usual.
DebbieDoRight
March 25th, 2011
2:35 pm
forgive the typos!!
Joe Mama
March 25th, 2011
2:38 pm
Thulsa Doom: “The unions in coal mining were great- better pay and working conditions-badly needed for my family of blue collar eastern European transplants earlier in the century.”
Coal miner fist bump — both my grandpappies were coal-mining UMWA men who saw the violence in 1930s Ohio first-hand.
Doom: “Bottom line is that I see the benefit of unions- even public unions but I just think they’ve gotten way too powerful. That’s all.”
Fair enough; we clearly just have a difference of opinion here.
And I want to thank you again for being collegial and polite in our discussion. That’s something you don’t see too often around here.
Thulsa Doom
March 25th, 2011
2:43 pm
DebbieDoRight,
The Obama administration is also providing loan guarantees to Brazil to allow Brazil to develop its own oil offshore. Curiously the same administration is defying a federal judges order to allow domestic drilling. Odd policy- help foreigners develop their oil but fight our own oil companies tooth to the point of contempt of court of a federal judge’s order to allow oil drilling here off of our own shores and our own resources. Quite odd wouldn’t you say.
Once again let me help you out on the subsidizing thing. We are probably not subsidizing exploration in foreign countries. We are probably just taxing oil companies at lower rates for doing so.
Yet another thing that you haven’t thought of is why we would do this. Did it ever occur to you that there may be something tied into the deal such as that the oil extracted come to U.S. markets?
Did it not also occur to you that the U.S. may give tax incentives to business deals in foreign countries as a form of indirect aid?
If the govt gives a tax incentive for an oil co. to explore for oil in say a poor Latin or African country do you not understand the kind of economic impact that America dollars have in a 3rd world nation? It means jobs and a heavy influx of American badly needed dollars into a local economy.
Never occurred to you did it that we do deals like this as a means of indirect foreign aid to help developing countries while simultaneously helping to meet our own energy needs?
Mick
March 25th, 2011
2:49 pm
getalife
Actually, I haven’t stayed overnight in key west in years. It’s close enough to drive down and spend the day and come back. They have this cruise out of miami that is super cheap, like $290 or something and you leave miami on thursday, spend friday in key west then go to cozumel and back to miami, I would go that route – more bang for the buck…
Thulsa Doom
March 25th, 2011
2:49 pm
Joe Mama,
It was indeed an interesting and refreshingly civil discussion. Our coal mining families are roughly in the same 200 mile patch of coal seams from western PA. to Ohio.
Some good stories about coal mining which as we’ve seen remains to this day a dangerous occupation. You probably have some uncles as well as I that died from or suffered from black lung. Anway I’m going to answer Debbie one last time then get going.
Mick
March 25th, 2011
2:51 pm
doom
**I was going to say that your post is as dumb as my box of rocks. But I like my box of rocks. I will not dishonor them in such a fashion.
Now that is classically funny, this place needs some humor….
Thulsa Doom
March 25th, 2011
3:05 pm
Mick,
Believe it or not its an original. Feel free to use it. I’ve got plenty more but I’ve held them in reserve since today we all seem to be having mostly civil discussions though we still disagree. Must be the weather outside which I keep telling myself I’m about to get out and enjoy.
Tundra Dude
March 25th, 2011
3:05 pm
DebbieDoRight@2:32, wrote, in part:
Doom did you read the part where I said that they also (the Gov) “subsidize” exploratory research in other countries?
For the most part, it’s not a subsidy cuz the Gubmint IS the “oil company”. The largest oil companies on planet earth are NOC’s (national oil companies). There are some that are public/private partnerships.
Tundra Dude
March 25th, 2011
3:17 pm
Thulsa Doom@2:27 pm, wrote, in part:
When the oil is extracted and brought to the consumer in the form of gas then guess what? The govt is then getting to get back all that tax money and then some in the form of taxing all that gas that gets brought right back to market.
Wrong!! Keyword: consumer
Which consumers?? There’s no requirement/guarantee that subsidized oil goes to the US market.
I’d wager heavily that if more of Alaska is opened to drilling, all, or most of the oil will be shipped to Japan.
Corey
March 25th, 2011
3:24 pm
WOW, you do realize that when multi-national corporations get through sucking the marrow from the bones of southern states that they bribed( a generous tax package) into letting them set up shop they will just move on in search of more bone marrow elsewhere don’t you? They are like aliens from another world in search of resources, and once the resources are depleted urban blight is left in their wake. The rust belt is a perfect example.
Thulsa Doom
March 25th, 2011
3:26 pm
Tundra Dude,
You have a valid point. There is no guarantee that the oil would come back to the U.S. In the case of Alaska we do have the pipeline so I’m assuming it would be cheaper to transport it to the lower 48 then to ship to Japan. No guarantees though.
Thulsa Doom
March 25th, 2011
3:28 pm
Corey,
Then just don’t invite these evil multi-national companies to come. Who needs the money, jobs, tax revenue that they bring anyhow?
Tundra Dude
March 25th, 2011
3:29 pm
JB wrote, in part:
It’s impossible to know how often such “false flag” operations are actually carried out. For example, it’s interesting to note that a couple of weeks after the Lam email was sent, while union protests continued at the Capitol, Capitol police reported finding dozens of .22 caliber hollow-point bullets secreted at three entrances to the building.
Nobody knows who put them there, or why. But these days, you can’t take anything at face value.
Right. Doesn’t take much imagination/effort to put the demonstrators in a bad light. Ez to plant “troublemakers” in their midst, and/or plant weapons/ammo.
Even the TV footage may not be authentic.. FAUX news, reporting from Madison, Wisconsin, was caught using an old film of a demonstration in California or Florida. (showed a warm, sunny day with palm trees in background)
Tundra Dude
March 25th, 2011
3:44 pm
Thulsa Doom@3:26 pm
You have a valid point. There is no guarantee that the oil would come back to the U.S. In the case of Alaska we do have the pipeline so I’m assuming it would be cheaper to transport it to the lower 48 then to ship to Japan. No guarantees though.
The rules regarding the pipeline oil have been changed several times. For a time, nearly all, then most, then some, of the oil has been shipped to Japan. From up there, it’s only 3k miles to Japan.
Quote from an oil industry spokesman : “Japan is the natural market for Alaskan oil”
Harry Callahan
March 25th, 2011
4:33 pm
Debbie doesn’t Do facts
poison pen
March 25th, 2011
4:57 pm
DebbieDoRight, as per your 2:32 post……Shouldn’t a company stand or fall on it’s own, I take it then that you were against all the bailouts???????????????????
Please answer.
poison pen
March 25th, 2011
5:12 pm
Debbie, still waiting.
Adam
March 25th, 2011
5:20 pm
Thulsa, you’re only proving my point that you are trying to refute by stating things as you did in your 2:11. You are LYING to yourself.
Lil' Barry Bailout
March 25th, 2011
6:18 pm
Unless oil producers around the world stop exporting oil, worrying about where Alaskan oil goes is ignorant populist pablum. A free market in oil mens that it matters not where the oil comes from. As long as it’s available to all at market prices, buying oil from Saudi Arabia has zero effect on anything, including funding of terrorism.
The high-stakes labor fight in Wisconsin gets more intense | Jay Bookman | Slinking Toward Retirement
March 26th, 2011
8:49 am
[...] The high-stakes labor fight in Wisconsin gets more intense | Jay Bookman. This entry was posted in Opinion and tagged couple, Court, david prosser, democratic senate, Drama, fight, goading, Governor, graeme zielinski, Jay Bookman, party spokesman, Post, re-election, Senate, State, state justice, state senate, state senators, Union, wisconsin voters. Bookmark the permalink. ← Saturday, Mar. 26, 2011 – Quotes of the Day [...]
Milek
March 29th, 2011
12:15 am
Not many people were excited about this past election, except the Tea Party. Republican arrogance and Tea Party attacks on most everything have turned that around. Republican Tea Party discontent is spreading everywhere. People want leaders who solve problems not create them.