Budget-cutting Britain may be hurting its own cause

In the dismal science known as economics, there’s no such thing as a perfectly controlled experiment. Too many variables are at work in a real-life economy to definitively tease out the impact of any one factor.

That said, the different budgetary courses taken by Great Britain and the United States do at least offer an intriguing case study.  Under their new Conservative government, the British have slashed public spending across the board, taking the direction advocated by conservative Republicans here in the United States, if not to the degree demanded by the GOP. The United States, at least so far, has taken a different course.

So if “excessive government spending” were really the problem, logic suggests that the British economy should be doing well, while the U.S. economy should be faltering. On the other hand, if government spending offers a needed short-term stimulus in these tough times, the U.S. economy should be outperforming its British counterpart.

So let’s go to our data.

First, from AFP:

“LONDON — Retail sales fell by a more-than-expected 0.8 percent in February, official data showed on Thursday, heaping fresh pressure on the government the day after it slashed its 2011 growth forecast.

Analysts had forecast a slightly smaller drop of 0.7 percent in February, according to a poll by Dow Jones Newswires.

And they said the latest data dealt a blow to government hopes of kick-starting growth of Britain’s economy, which shrank in the final quarter of 2010.

“Given that consumer spending accounts for some 65 percent of (British) GDP, any sustained weakening in spending would be very worrying for overall growth prospects,” said Howard Archer, chief European economist at research group IHS Global Insight.

Retail sales in the United States, on the other hand, have been rising. According to a March 11 report from the Census Bureau, advance estimates of U.S. retail and food services sales for February “were $387.1 billion, an increase of 1.0 percent from the previous month, and 8.9 percent above February 2010. Total sales for the December 2010 through February 2011 period were up 8.2 percent from the same period a year ago.”

The British budget cuts have been justified as necessary in order to maintain the country’s bond ratings. But that may not be working out too well either. In a new report out today, Moody’s warns that Great Britain’s weakening economy may put its AAA rating in danger.

“Although the weaker economic growth prospects in 2011 and 2012 do not directly cast doubt on the UK’s sovereign rating level, we believe that slower growth combined with weaker-than-expected fiscal consolidation could cause the UK’s debt metrics to deteriorate to a point that would be inconsistent with an AAA rating,” Moody’s said in a statement.

All such things are relative, of course. Smaller countries such as Portugal, Ireland and Greece are facing far worse woes than either Britain or the United States. And there’s no doubt that the United States faces long-term budget challenges that have to be addressed. The question is whether you try to address them immediately, in the teeth of the greatest economic recession in 80 years.

The British have taken one course; we have taken another.

– Jay Bookman

447 comments Add your comment

TnGelding

March 24th, 2011
4:19 pm

I think we took the right course. But at some point we have to bite the bullet.

Durable goods orders were down in February, but ex-defense were up. Another good sign in my humble opinion.

Granny Godzilla

March 24th, 2011
4:20 pm

and we are recovering……despite the GOP war on Jobs.

carlosgvv

March 24th, 2011
4:21 pm

Jay, I believe logic would suggest that when you are virtually bankrupt, cutting spending is the best thing you can do.

TnGelding

March 24th, 2011
4:26 pm

The USA has a AAA bond rating. The right kind of spending is an investment in the future.

The GOP has declared war on jobs and every other middle class pursuit. Wake up voters!

Jay

March 24th, 2011
4:26 pm

Carlos, we’re not virtually bankrupt. We are the richest nation on the planet.

Kamchak

March 24th, 2011
4:29 pm

1811/1801 - 0311/0317

March 24th, 2011
4:36 pm

“In the dismal science known as economics, there’s no such thing as a perfectly controlled experiment. Too many variables are at work in a real-life economy to definitively tease out the impact of any one factor.

That said …..”

“That said” ……….. just made everything that followed “non-definitive”.

ty webb

March 24th, 2011
4:38 pm

I see the GOP “war on jobs” meme is making the rounds. I guess it’s true that inferior minds think alike. Well…either that or there’s an echo in here.

jconservative

March 24th, 2011
4:38 pm

The quickest way I know of to cut consumer spending is to cut the monthly and weekly checks mailed to consumers to spend. So if you do not send unemployment checks, Social Security checks or food stamps consumer spending will drop off the table.

And if consumer spending drops off the table what happens to the economy?

arnold

March 24th, 2011
4:40 pm

If we were bankrupt we’d have top cut spending and RAISE INCOME!! How could we possibly raise income?

md

March 24th, 2011
4:42 pm

There is a fine line between stimulating an economy in bad times and over-extending ones credit…..

And the dollar being the world’s reserve currency plays a huge part as well.

As for Moody’s……….that gang had their hand in the cookie jar of the housing market……I’d trust them about as far as I could throw them…………

josef nix

March 24th, 2011
4:44 pm

Our consumer spending is up. So are our prices. Is there a connection there? Seriously, I don’t know enough about this…

md

March 24th, 2011
4:44 pm

“And if consumer spending drops off the table what happens to the economy?”

About the same thing that happens if we can’t pay our bills…………..

moonbat betty

March 24th, 2011
4:45 pm

war on jobs!

war on jobs!

war on jobs!

How can we raise income?

Let the unions raise incomes!

Granny Godzilla

March 24th, 2011
4:48 pm

ty webb

March 24th, 2011
4:38 pm
I see the GOP “war on jobs” meme is making the rounds. I guess it’s true that inferior minds think alike. Well…either that or there’s an echo in here.

OR it’s true….let’s see what has the GOP done to create all the jobs, jobs, jobs they ran on (remember before the buyers remorse set it)…

Ty can you list them for us or at the very least can you tackle all the
things they have done/blocked as listed below and tell us how each and every one of them isn’t true?

REPORT: The Republican Party’s War On Jobs

Now I know there will be those who cast doubt on the data above because of it’s source, but pay no attention to them unless of course they can
get beyond the source and disprove the data…..

The only way the GOP has to make President Obama a one term President is to drag their knuckles on the economy……it is truly shameful.

carlosgvv

March 24th, 2011
4:48 pm

Jay, if we are the richest nation on Earth, can we pay off our national debt now?

Granny Godzilla

March 24th, 2011
4:51 pm

Moonbat Betty

Let the unions raise incomes!

they did, along with protecting children from sweatshops,40 hour work weeks, paid vacations, sick leave…….

Granny Godzilla

March 24th, 2011
4:52 pm

carlosgvv

March 24th, 2011
4:48 pm
Jay, if we are the richest nation on Earth, can we pay off our national debt now?

yep, if we raise taxes back to the days of GOP Presidents Nixon and Eisenhower

josef nix

March 24th, 2011
4:52 pm

carlos

“Jay, if we are the richest nation on Earth, can we pay off our national debt now?”

Can ANY nation-statw?

md

March 24th, 2011
4:56 pm

Richest nation on Earth…………on paper.

Reminds me of my many sports teams……..they all looked good on paper, sucked in real life.

The fact is that we spend more than we make, and have to borrow to make up the difference.

Anybody tried that as a long-term solution with their own finances??

Doggone/GA

March 24th, 2011
4:57 pm

“yep, if we raise taxes back to the days of GOP Presidents Nixon and Eisenhower”

Beat me to it!

josef nix

March 24th, 2011
4:59 pm

md

“Anybody tried that as a long-term solution with their own finances”

Yeah. It didn’t work. I haven’t made that mistake again.

josef nix

March 24th, 2011
5:00 pm

Enter your comments here

Kamchak

March 24th, 2011
5:01 pm

Enter your comments anywhere else

Night Train

March 24th, 2011
5:01 pm

My brother-in-law tried that md, lasted for about two years before he filed bankruptcy.

josef nix

March 24th, 2011
5:03 pm

K’chak

Are you telling me to go away?

Kamchak

March 24th, 2011
5:04 pm

Of course not, josef.

I think we’ve all mistaken the submit button for refresh.

Pogo

March 24th, 2011
5:04 pm

Jay; “We’re not virtually bankrupt. We are the richest nation on the planet”.

“Virtually bankrupt”? What the hell is that? No, we aren’t VIRTUALLY BANKRUPT, we are ACTUALLY BANKRUPT! Jay and others of the progressive ilk think that if they could only find some way into all that money out here in peoples 401K’s and their life savings, they could solve all of our national financial problems. And the think that the way to that money is to find ways to severely tax those savings or to make it mandatory to turn them over to the government directly. Jay’s political soul-mate, Michael Moore, recently stated exactly this exact same thing in Wisconsin (meanwhile carefully protecting his own 100’s of millions of dollars).

Jay, the UK (and the rest of Europe) has been there and done the socialism (and multi-culturalism) things and now they are trying to mitigate the damage they did by coming to grips with the financial deficit they ultimately created by following these ideologies. What gives you the right to critisize or offer advice to the Europeans anyway seeings how our own country is in hock to so badly that our “leaders” have to go around and beg other more prosperous countries to continue to buy our debt so that we can continue to give everyone everything they want in this country for free? And your proposed remedy for all of this is most assuredly more taxation and more control of peoples money, I suppose?

I know that you and the other progressives have long looked at Europe as the socialistic Disney Land that you hoped would one day be created here in the US but they (the Europeans) are now running away from it as hard as they can because THEY, like us, ARE BROKE! I never thought I would say it but, America now trully does need to look to Europe as an example. Obama (and apparently Jay) seem to be about 10 years behind the times as they still believe in the “European Model” for socio-economic political policy. Socialism does not work.

josef nix

March 24th, 2011
5:07 pm

K’chak

Sorry,,,I shoulda put in the smiley… :-)

Hit a two-for-one sale on it yesterday….

Kamchak

March 24th, 2011
5:07 pm

OH NOES! NOT THE ILK CARD!

Sloppy Joe

March 24th, 2011
5:07 pm

For more evidence on the benefits of austerity, check out how well it’s been working out for Ireland who have been practicing it for years now. More austerity, more economic contraction. More austerity, more economic contraction.

But when evidence clashes with ideology, for Republicans, ideology always wins.

Normal

March 24th, 2011
5:08 pm

I knew it! I knew he’d do it! Jay!! I leave from work and he changes the thread. GAWD!

As for budget…pay your bills when you get them and keep everything paid off.

Normal

March 24th, 2011
5:08 pm

I shot an ilk the other day…

@@

March 24th, 2011
5:09 pm

Funny! After reading a comparison of the two approaches at Carnegie Endowment, they conclude it’s the U.S. that should follow Britain’s example.

It’s economics–very confusing. All I know is the cost of food is rising along with everything else.

AmVet

March 24th, 2011
5:09 pm

There is no American war on jobs.

Provided you live in India or China or Indonesia or the Philippines or Mexico or…

Sloppy Joe

March 24th, 2011
5:09 pm

Pogo @5:04, You clearly don’t know what the word, bankrupt, means.

Kamchak

March 24th, 2011
5:10 pm

Don’t cry over spilled ilk.

Adam

March 24th, 2011
5:10 pm

We spend more than we are taking in. We won’t start taking in more until one or both of these things happen: Taxes go up, and/or people’s income in general in the bottom and middle brackets goes up. Once we address the revenue problem, which we DO HAVE, then things will start to get better. We ALSO have a spending problem, in that we have less and less revenue over time due to the reverse of the factors above: decline in revenues in the bottom and middle brackets, and tax cuts. See, those two things are BAD.

josef nix

March 24th, 2011
5:11 pm

POGO

I can understand that as a conservative you would have issues with socialism. What I can’t quite grasp is your antipathies toward multi-culturalism It is essentially a conservative philosophy.

josef nix

March 24th, 2011
5:12 pm

Wonder if Paul or Dusty have a good recipe for ilk?

Adam

March 24th, 2011
5:12 pm

Pogo: When the nation’s debt continues to rise despite any actual efforts to fix it, and a GOP president is in office, and decides to spend money on war and tax cuts again, we’ll see what your tune about whether or not we are ACTUALLY BANKRUPT becomes.

AmVet

March 24th, 2011
5:15 pm

I say bilk the ilk! Or is it milk the ilk?

I’m just not clear on the difference between progressive ilk and reactionary ilk.

Does on have bigger antlers?

josef nix

March 24th, 2011
5:16 pm

AmVet
Not if it’s a female ilk.

Doggone/GA

March 24th, 2011
5:17 pm

“I say bilk the ilk! Or is it milk the ilk?”

I think it’s the first that got us in this mess, and it’s the second that will get us out

AmVet

March 24th, 2011
5:20 pm

Newsflash form the Pogo News Network!

America files for Chapter 7!

Details at 11…

And you can dance to this Latin/Turkish ilk!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW1iOIp3mSg

@@

March 24th, 2011
5:21 pm

I think I’ll just read the comments on this one. Comical in a sad sorta way.

AngryRedMarsWoman

March 24th, 2011
5:27 pm

“I think we’ve all mistaken the submit button for refresh.”

There’s supposed to be a refresh button down here? ::right::left:: where? My computer sux.

Del

March 24th, 2011
5:29 pm

The U.K. got themselves into the socialism downward spiral a long time ago it’s gonna take time and a lot of pain to get their economy back on track and they should be applauded for their effort. Here in the USA Obama and his fellow socialists in Congress have been trying their level best to take us down that same path as the U.K. and Europe. The mid-terms last year got the job started of removing these idiots from office it needs to be completed in 012.The signs are that the public is on board with that important task.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

March 24th, 2011
5:29 pm

Well, we never tried the real solution to the economy. If cutting taxes raises federal revenue, cut them all out! The federal guvmint will need a bulldozer to pile up the money. Of course, no one ever listens to me.

Dusty

March 24th, 2011
5:30 pm

Oh now, we go from pretty teeth to ugly economy.

The UK makes sense. If you aint got it, don’t spend it and don’t steal the citizen’s money. Too bad the US still can’t accept that simple truth.

Bookman writes paragraph after paragraph telling us we are rich and prosperous. BUT as Pogo said: ACTUALLY BANKRUPT!

Ah, gather around little ones while Granny Goodfellow Godzie tells you about the big bad War On Jobs that those mean old Repubs are waging. Aint it awful! (I think Granny has gone to work again as “paid blog replier”.) One does what one has to do in these tough times.

Go for it, UK! U R wise!
Anybody that can survive Dunkirk can survive a downturn.

Kamchak

March 24th, 2011
5:34 pm

There’s supposed to be a refresh button down here? ::right::left:: where?

Depends on which browser you use.

The Fallen

March 24th, 2011
5:35 pm

I can’t believe that it has taken this long for someone to point out that retail spending is up because retail prices are up! JB’s attempt to tie Obama’s recovery plan and retail spending together is a false equivelancy at best and seriously flawed at worst. Funny, no mention of UK retail spending in the article. Just sayin…

md

March 24th, 2011
5:41 pm

Adam…..that might be the first post I can actually agree on…….but I bet you would advocate only raising taxes on the folks making more…….if so, that just ain’t right.

Jay

March 24th, 2011
5:42 pm

Fallen complains that there’s no mention of British retail sales in the post, which is odd because the first data point offered is the decline in British retail sales. And inflation — the latest monthly figure is annual rate of 2.1 percent — doesn’t begin to account for our retail sales growth.

However, if you still want to try to make that argument, the inflation rate in Britain last month was 4.4 percent which, by Fallen’s logic, means the British economy is REALLy doing bad by comparison.

saywhat?

March 24th, 2011
5:43 pm

It doesn’t matter how well the US economy recovers compared to other nations. Facts and reality are irrelevant in the face of conservative dogma. How did certain Bush appointees put it? “We create our own reality” I think they said. Republicans would rather let the country go down in flames rather than admit they were wrong.

If there is any way that the economy could be better than it is at any point in time (which of course it always can), Republicans will claim that it would have been had we only continued doing the things that caused it to tank in the first place. And they will claim that with a straight face.

WOW

March 24th, 2011
5:45 pm

“Carlos, we’re not virtually bankrupt. We are the richest nation on the planet.”

Jay, you didn’t get a degree in finance did you?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Dusty

March 24th, 2011
5:46 pm

Oh good one! “Don’t cry over spilled ilk!”

Yes, JOSEF, I do have a recipe for “ilk”. It is called UNoNeedRecipe banana bread but it turns out to be “ilk”. I hadn’t give it a name until I read Kamchak’s words. Now I know what is suitable.

Which reminds me, time to warm leftovers. If they wouldn’t eat it last night, it will be even better tonight. Waste not, want not, etc. etc. etc. Please fix the economy while I am gone. Thank you…

carlosgvv

March 24th, 2011
5:46 pm

If we are the richest nation on the planet then why are all our cities filled with the homeless, why is our national infrastructure crumbling, why are there so many jobless, why is our national debt sky-high, and why are there so many uninsured? If this what it’s like to be a rich nation, then I’m sure glad we’re not a poor one.

WOW

March 24th, 2011
5:48 pm

“Moody’s warns that Great Britain’s weakening economy may put its AAA rating in danger.”

America has also been warned by Moodys, Jay. Then again, you’ve been paying more attention to Newt Gingrich and Michelle Backmann than you have to what our real problems are.

“All such things are relative, of course. Smaller countries such as Portugal, Ireland and Greece are facing far worse woes than either Britain or the United States.”

Yeah, it’s called running out of other folks money. It’s what happens with socialism, Jay. Also, Greece is in big trouble because of entitlements.

SEE: California, Michigan, NY, NJ and Illinois.

WOW

March 24th, 2011
5:49 pm

carlosgvv

You make some of the best points I’ve seen on this blog. Seriously, you and I have our differences but we both see what’s happening in this country.

saywhat?

March 24th, 2011
5:49 pm

MD wrote “but I bet you would advocate only raising taxes on the folks making more…….if so, that just ain’t right.”

Right or not, and that is DEFINITELY debatable, it doesn’t make sense to tax people who don’t have any money though, does it? As Willie Sutton is credited with answering to why he robbed banks “Thats where the money is.”

Pogo

March 24th, 2011
5:50 pm

Why Amvet, I didn’t even realize I had my own network. In fact, I don’t think that I would want one!

And Adam, Obama is right now spending our money on mutliple wars in islamic nations to the tune of billions and billions of American taxpayer dollars. What makes your democratic leader (Obama) any different than the rest of the hated “war mongers” you on the left espouse to hate so much? The answer is, nothing. In reality he is far worse because he campaigned on being an anti-war candidate for political expediency and to placate his liberal base which really makes him a liar of the very worse kind. But I guess truth will never get in the way of reality when political ideology is at stake, will it? At least for some of you.

md

March 24th, 2011
5:50 pm

“If this what it’s like to be a rich nation, then I’m sure glad we’re not a poor one.”

Take a trip to some of these 3rd world countries…….we aren’t “poor” by a long shot in comparison.

Jay

March 24th, 2011
5:52 pm

WOW

March 24th, 2011
5:52 pm

“Under their new Conservative government, the British have slashed public spending across the board, taking the direction advocated by conservative Republicans here in the United States, if not to the degree demanded by the GOP. ”

Yep, and they see exactly what has happened in Spain and Greece. You can mock them all you want, Jay.

You claim that Obama is a smart man and I agree but one thing Obama doesn’t understand is money. Why, because the man has never ever ever ever held a job in the public sector overseeing budgets, employees etc. Same with many Democrats. Most of the Democrats in congress are lawyers.

Tundra Dude

March 24th, 2011
5:53 pm

Granny Godzilla@4:52, wrote:

carlosgvv
Jay, if we are the richest nation on Earth, can we pay off our national debt now?

yep, if we raise taxes back to the days of GOP Presidents Nixon and Eisenhower
—————————-

Imo, Eisenhower was brilliant. He loved his 91% top tax rate. Not to confiscate $$$, but to encourage re-investment in the economy. (You reinvest, you don’t pay that 91%)

To get a handle on our debt, the IMF suggests we immediately *double all taxes*, forever!!

To pay these Trillions (100-200?) in long term obligations…..??…..ain’t gonna happen.

Kamchak

March 24th, 2011
5:53 pm

md

March 24th, 2011
5:54 pm

“Right or not, and that is DEFINITELY debatable, it doesn’t make sense to tax people who don’t have any money though, does it?”

Well…..the last proposal I saw said folks making under 250k wouldn’t have to worry about it…….

Last I checked, we all lived here………..

AmVet

March 24th, 2011
5:54 pm

Consumer spending in the US is just under 71% of GDP. Compared to China’s 36%.

Private investment in this country now stands at an anemic 14%. In 1950 it was 21%.

And no matter how you slice it, all the self-obsessed teenagers in the land going crazy with daddy’s money at the mall, ain’t gonna replace the effects of building new plants, etc…

Del

March 24th, 2011
5:55 pm

Obama has been in office over two years and is moving toward the back end of his term. The first two years he’s had a Dem controlled House and Senate and with control of both chambers his policies have not proven successful. The economic recovery is fragile and could reverse, job creation has been abysmal along with a housing market that can’t gain traction. There is nothing that this administration can hang its hat on but to give Jay some credit he’s certainly tried to spin a success.

1811/1801 - 0311/0317

March 24th, 2011
5:55 pm

Didn’t we whip Britain twice before?

Maybe that set them back.

WOW

March 24th, 2011
5:56 pm

Here Jay, let some real folks who know how the economy works, school you.

US Finances Rank Near Worst in the World: Study

The US ranks near the bottom of developed global economies in terms of financial stability and will stay there unless it addresses its burgeoning debt problems, a new study has found.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42246531

Dusty

March 24th, 2011
5:58 pm

My friends, we are rich in freedom. Look around and be thankful.

Later….

AmVet

March 24th, 2011
5:58 pm

Who ARE these people?

I’m guessing either Lee Atwater’s son or Karl Rove’s nephew…

WOW

March 24th, 2011
5:59 pm

Hey look, another WEINER, no pun intended, wants a waiver for Obamacare.

Anthony Weiner: Waiver might work for New York

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51840.html#ixzz1HYaTXdap

carlosgvv

March 24th, 2011
5:59 pm

WOW

You and I both just post what would be common sense to most people. Unfortunately, as you see by some of the posts here, common sense isn’t so common.

md

March 24th, 2011
5:59 pm

“along with a housing market that can’t gain traction.”

And won’t with foreclosures setting prices………….

The appraisers went bonkers in the opposite direction….and it is hurting the economy.

There is a difference between distressed properties and non-distressed properties, but not in their current book.

AmVet

March 24th, 2011
6:01 pm

To the esteemed Mr. Bookman,

What in the name of (your favorite deity here) could be holding up my 5:58?

Let my people (and posts) go!

Pogo

March 24th, 2011
6:02 pm

Say, your comment about Republicans wanting the country to “go down in flames” rather than admit they were wrong is infantile. To an even greater degree the very same can be said of the liberals during the Bush years and no-one with any sense at all can argue it. Never have I ever seen demonization of an American president by both the liberal public and the American media than occurred during that period. Pertaining to Obama, at least you liberals now have the mainstream media on your side even though he will surely prove to be the biggest loser President the American people have ever had to endure. Mainstream media support was something that Bush never had. In summation, do your idealistic whining somewhere else to people less informed. You have your own loser to contend with but I am sure you will find some way to rationalize his ineptness because that old sin pride won’t allow you to do otherwise.

Moderate Line

March 24th, 2011
6:03 pm

All such things are relative, of course. Smaller countries such as Portugal, Ireland and Greece are facing far worse woes than either Britain or the United States. And there’s no doubt that the United States faces long-term budget challenges that have to be addressed. The question is whether you try to address them immediately, in the teeth of the greatest economic recession in 80 years.
+++++++++
We are not in the “teeth” of an economic recession. The recession ended June 2009 according to the NBER.

http://www.nber.org/cycles/sept2010.html

TaxPayer

March 24th, 2011
6:03 pm

I like @@’s earlier idea to release the Kracken, I mean, WOW, after 5:00. Turn him loose, Jay, before he essplodes.

AmVet

March 24th, 2011
6:05 pm

md

March 24th, 2011
6:06 pm

“Anthony Weiner: Waiver might work for New York”

All part of re-inventing the wheel…….maybe the States should have been given the chance to fix their problems before the misfits crammed down their mandate………..

@@

March 24th, 2011
6:11 pm

I’ve been watching Jerry Brown in hopes that he’s seen the error of his ways. He has, after all, admitted to some boneheaded decisions when last he served as California’s governor.

Anyhoo, I fear there’s a slight of hand at work there. Jerry signed off on substantial cuts in government spending. He’s even hinted to public pension reforms. What does he want in exchange? The ballot initiative to go forward whereby citizens can vote as to whether they’ll accept a tax increase. In a recent poll, all indications are they will (58%).

And yet, by a 3 to 1 margin, they also favor public pension reform. Voters by wide margins support other changes to public pensions, such as requiring higher worker contributions, increasing the minimum retirement age and adding elements of a 401(k)-style plan that would reduce guaranteed payments.

Only 26 percent would back a temporary tax increase to pay benefits owed, while 67 percent opposed that notion.

Both issues should be on the ballot. If not, Californians will have been duped into paying higher taxes to cover the cost of California’s OUTRAGEOUS pension costs.

That’s today’s news from the LaLaLeftcoast. Land of the moonbats & moonbeams.

Pogo

March 24th, 2011
6:11 pm

And to all of us that fall victim to following one political ideology or the other I can only say one thing; in the words of Pink Floyd, dont just become just another “Brick in the Wall”.

And Amvet, if I did have a network it would be devoted to rock and roll and it would mostly consist of those artists and those records that have fallen through the cracks of the American music scene because they weren’t good looking enough or they weren’t “hip” enough. You know the kind I mean.

Paul

March 24th, 2011
6:12 pm

Economics. Don’tcha’ just love it?

Seems to me to still be a short term for any definitive conclusions.

But really, much of this strikes me as ‘pick an economic policy to support your ideology.” Not necessarily to support what you want to accomplish. I rather think with many it’s “gov’t spending is bad’ so they advocate cuts and justify them by the economic benefits they say will occur. Same with those who want to spend more.

Still can’t figure out why our representatives don’t take those two reports that highlighted hundreds of billions in waste and recommended actions to deal with it. The President’s Commission and the GAO duplication report.

Wait, I can figure it out. It’s in my third paragraph. Cons want to cut social spending. Libs don’t.

Okay. Next?

Paul

March 24th, 2011
6:14 pm

AmVet

How’d you find the Kraaken AND Wow in one video?

Granny Godzilla

March 24th, 2011
6:18 pm

Two things

Sec State Clinton about to talk handover…looks like an excellent job for the Obama Administration.

Also, Ithe feel of ilk dresses against my skin…

If you are going to play the ilk card, play the queen.

josef nix

March 24th, 2011
6:18 pm

(the aside)

“Who ARE these people?”

Which ones? They all sounded pretty scary to me…

Granny Godzilla

March 24th, 2011
6:19 pm

Hot damn, i don’t type any better on the patio….

love the feel…..

AmVet

March 24th, 2011
6:19 pm

Rock on Pogo.

You do play some kickbutt stuff…

Kinda like this, when these guys were pretty much nobodies…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk52nGxF-jc.

And Paul, LOL. I have a lot of useless talents!

Gator Joe

March 24th, 2011
6:19 pm

Subtract Bush and Cheney’s unpaid for wars, especially the private contractor rip-offs, subsidies to big oil, and tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and the debt picture would look much better. The Republicans, and their simple-minded, conservative supporters prefer the rah-rah, feel good, ineffectual cuts in social programs, cuts to Planned Parenthood, and cuts in NPR funding.

Independent

March 24th, 2011
6:19 pm

Moodys – aren’t they the one that gave the banks NINJA loans AAA ratings?

Independent

March 24th, 2011
6:22 pm

The “cuts” to NPR don’t really save money – radio stations still get to spend the money – just can’t spend it on NPR.

AmVet

March 24th, 2011
6:23 pm

@@

March 24th, 2011
6:26 pm

How’d you find the Kraaken AND Wow in one video?

And Paul, LOL. I have a lot of useless talents!

I wouldn’t call OCD a talent. More like a debilitating disorder.

Mr_B

March 24th, 2011
6:26 pm

Pogo: perhaps that we could agree that accusing either side of what amounts to treason doesn’t get us any closer to solutions for problems that both the left and the right recognize. Accusing Republicans of wanting the country “go down in flames” IS infantile, as is referring to the President of the United States as a “loser”: health care reform as “Obamacare” or suggesting that taxes voted on by elected representatives are “theft.” Bush WAS denigrated to a degree that was uncalled for, as Obama has been. Nothing is ever going to get better unless and until we can disagree with the policies that one side or the other recommends without simulanteously accusing them of every sin including pedophilia.

md

March 24th, 2011
6:27 pm

“cuts to Planned Parenthood”

I was always baffled by the name……..if there was any planning involved, folks wouldn’t be using their services.

Paul

March 24th, 2011
6:29 pm

@@

No need to needle him. He already has the sense to have a healthy, self-preservation instinct when it comes to Republican Women!

josef nix

March 24th, 2011
6:33 pm

Mr B

Shalom, and agreed. The left calls Bush “the worst ever” and the right calls Obama the same. If you know anything at all about United States history, these two are not even in the top ten worst, imho…