GOP’s ‘no new taxes’ pledge will render deficit debate moot

From The Hill:

“Republican leaders in the Senate and House will not agree to tax increases in the guise of reform measures, according to a prominent conservative advocate for lower taxes.

Conservatives have grown increasingly worried that Republicans in Congress may accept a tax hike as part of a broader deal to reduce discretionary and entitlement spending.

But Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) have pledged to Americans for Tax Reform president Grover Norquist they will not support any deficit reduction package that increases taxes….

Norquist said he has received the same promise from Sens. Tom Coburn (Okla.), Mike Crapo (Idaho) and Saxby Chambliss (Ga.), who are negotiating a deficit reduction package with Democrats.

“I’ve talked to the three guys in the room and they’ve promised not to vote any tax increases,” Norquist said.”

Well, somebody’s lying to somebody. Or at best, badly miscommunicating.

Crapo, Chambliss and other Republican leaders have been suggesting that they want to pursue some kind of grand bargain with President Obama and the Democrats to combat the deficit, with taxes in the mix as well as spending cuts. But if what they’re telling Norquist is true, then their talk has been absolute nonsense and they are “negotiating” in bad faith.

Spending has to be cut, entitlement growth has to be addressed AND taxes have to be raised. Politically and mathematically, there is no other way out of this mess. If you don’t do all of those things, you might as well do none of them. In fact, given the compromises that have to take place, if you don’t do all of those things, you WILL do none of them.

So if the GOP is really taking taxes off the table, we’re in deep doo doo.

– Jay Bookman

667 comments Add your comment

USinUK

March 22nd, 2011
11:10 am

“But if what they’re telling Norquist is true, then their talk has been absolute nonsense and they are “negotiating” in bad faith”

NO!!!

say it isn’t so!!!

I’m shocked! Shocked, I tell you!!!

james

March 22nd, 2011
11:10 am

Jay- would like for you to change “entitlement growth has to be addressed” to “entitlements need to be reformatted and reduced as we simply cannot afford them”. The retirement age needs to be extended and the 400 billion of medicare savings that were discussed by the President in his stumping of hcare reform should be implemented now.

USinUK

March 22nd, 2011
11:11 am

woohoo … firsties!

Jefferson

March 22nd, 2011
11:12 am

Only weak minded adults run from their financial responsibilities. If everyone took the easy jobs, nothing hard would ever get done.

Peadawg

March 22nd, 2011
11:12 am

“Spending has to be cut, entitlement growth has to be addressed” – Says the one who pissed and moaned a few weeks ago about spending cuts that the GOP wanted to do. I’ll believe a Democrat really wants to cut spending when I see it.

godless heathen

March 22nd, 2011
11:12 am

If you can’t even eliminate spending for the Cowboy Poetry Festival, taxes must be raised. However some of us reject that premise.

USinUK

March 22nd, 2011
11:12 am

Jefferson – 11:12 – “nothing hard would ever get done”

and Mike Rowe would be out of a job …

Peadawg

March 22nd, 2011
11:13 am

““entitlements need to be reformatted and reduced as we simply cannot afford them”.” – AMEN!

Doggone/GA

March 22nd, 2011
11:13 am

“Jay- would like for you to change “entitlement growth has to be addressed” to “entitlements need to be reformatted and reduced as we simply cannot afford them”. ”

and what is the difference? You’ve just stated differently the same thing Jay already said.

Tommy Maddox

March 22nd, 2011
11:14 am

If everybody were equally taxed, then you might be barking up the right tree.

USinUK

March 22nd, 2011
11:16 am

fwiw, while I have no theoretical problem with raising the retirement age, it’s easy for me to say that as I am a desk jockey. for folks who do manual labor (working on a line, cleaning, cooking, etc), extending the age to 70 is going to be a tough road for them to hoe

Jefferson

March 22nd, 2011
11:16 am

If the revenue is there to be collected and you don’t collect it, it would be like a pro baseball player who can hit .350 taking a job at the rec department because it would be easier. Plenty of revenue out there, quick giving breaks to those who don’t need them.

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:17 am

Jay, you and Norquist are mixing “tax rates” with “tax revenues”, and there’s some dancing going on.

“not to vote any tax increases”

They want tax RATES to come down, in return for closing loopholes that increase overall “Tax Revenue”. Its pretty clear to me anyway, what is going on.

Whether Norquist gets it, or his dancing around his own PR moves, who knows.

larry

March 22nd, 2011
11:18 am

If i owed a lot of money , yes , i would cut some things but i believe i would go out and get a second job. You have to increase revenues to pay down debt.

The first place i would look would be the forever bloated defense budget..

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:18 am

tempest has found teapot

godless heathen

March 22nd, 2011
11:19 am

USinUK. Not to pick nits, but isn’t it “row to hoe”. Hoeing a road doesn’t make sense. ;)

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:20 am

no one is negotiating in bad faith on this issue in the senate jay.

they could give a hoot about norquist compared to the roasting they’d get if…

Peadawg

March 22nd, 2011
11:21 am

“The first place i would look would be the forever bloated defense budget..” – Doesn’t look like Obama wants to cut the defense budget since he just sent 100+ jets over to bomb Libya.

Like I said, I’ll believe a Democrat really wants to cut spending when I see it.

larry

March 22nd, 2011
11:21 am

And i would not raise the retirement age at all.

Just raise the tax that both employer and employee pay by .01% and raise the cap to 500,000 dollars and that takes care of S.S

Mick

March 22nd, 2011
11:22 am

Being a republican means never having to say yes to a tax increase. At some point, reality will bite…

Jefferson

March 22nd, 2011
11:24 am

They want the Beaver Cleaver vibe, just not the rates.

Peadawg

March 22nd, 2011
11:24 am

Being a democrat means never having to say yes to spending cuts. At some point, reality will bite…

USinUK

March 22nd, 2011
11:24 am

godless – 11:19 – d-OH! where was my head!?!

you’re right

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:25 am

Being a democrat means never having to say yes to a spending cut. At some point, reality will bite…

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:25 am

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:26 am

larry afraid you’re not aware of the math

TaxPayer

March 22nd, 2011
11:27 am

TaxPayer

March 22nd, 2011
11:28 am

Being a Republican means increasing tax revenues by cutting taxes.

Herman Cain

March 22nd, 2011
11:28 am

UsinUk: in response to your 11:16, if they reach old age and are still qualified to do nothing more than working on a line, cleaning, cooking ect. then isn’t that because of bad choices they have made. Sorta like the entitlement programs we have now, do you think hard working Americans should continue to work harder and pay more forever for the lazy layabouts that choke this country and it’s taxpayers?

USinUK

March 22nd, 2011
11:29 am

jm – :lol: – I first read that as “you’re not afraid of the math”

be afraid of the math!!!! be very afraid!!!!

;-)

Road Scholar

March 22nd, 2011
11:30 am

I bet the Repubs think that doing away with tax breaks to those who don’t need/deserve them is a tax increase! Morons!

So, let’s transfer the debt of two wars to the RNC and let them and big business pay for them! Besides, who is reaping the profits from the war?

USinUK

March 22nd, 2011
11:31 am

Herman – 11:28 – um. so are you calling people who work manual labor jobs lazy layabouts???

these are people who do honest, hard labor – maybe they left school when they were teenagers, maybe they live in a town where manual labor is all that’s available to them.

either way, they’re working for a living, they’re not leeches on the system – you want to punish them for it???

Mick

March 22nd, 2011
11:31 am

jm

While you and pea high five each other, more revenue is still needed and repubs won’t go there while dems will cut but not all that the repubs want. Why should they? Did we not extend tax cuts to the wealthiest americans for two more years? How does that factor in when it comes to serious deficit reduction?

carlosgvv

March 22nd, 2011
11:32 am

“we’re in deep doo doo”

It should be obvious to all by now that not only are we deep in it, we’ve been in it for some time now and are sinking ever deeper each year. It is also obvious that our elected officials will not ever do what is needed to get us out of this mess. When the chickens come to roost on this, a hard rain will really fall.

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:32 am

Road – “Besides, who is reaping the profits from the war?”

No one. Come on man…. and I held out hope you were a pretty balanced kind of guy…..

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:32 am

Mick “while dems will cut”

says who?

Peadawg

March 22nd, 2011
11:32 am

I bet the Obama thinks that getting involved in Libya by sending 100+ planes to help is a spending cut! Moron!

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:33 am

Mick, FYI, Jay Bookman is not in the US Congress…. :)

left wing

March 22nd, 2011
11:33 am

jm @ 11:17 – You are correct that they want the rates to come down, in exchange for closing loopholes. That is supposed to be revenue neutral.

The bottom line is that we need more revenue, and that means we need to increase taxes. We currently have a $3.7 trillion dollar budget and a $1.4 trillion deficit. If we had a 5% across the board cut (which would cause massive layoffs, etc), that would only amount to $185 billion, not nearly enough to seriously tackle the problem.

We need to establish at least 2 new tax brackets for higher earners.

Jefferson

March 22nd, 2011
11:34 am

Cain, keep working and quit bitching.

josef nix

March 22nd, 2011
11:34 am

heathen

How would she know about a row to hoe…she’s an urban sophisticate! Better than them country folks, doncha know? :-)

Mick

March 22nd, 2011
11:35 am

jm

I never said he was……didn’t the last tax cut add to the deficit? Like I would listen to anything the repub leadership says and take it serious?

larry

March 22nd, 2011
11:36 am

No , im not afraid of the math. Ive actually done the math.

You are just afraid of people who actually have paid into the system their whole lives getting to enjoy the fruit of their labor.

They should not be 70 years old to enjoy it either.

left wing

March 22nd, 2011
11:36 am

TaxPayer @ 11:28 – if you understand the Laffer curve (which that’s based on) you would know that it only works if you’re on the right (downward) side of the curve. If you’re up on the top or the left (upward) side, you cut taxes and lose revenue.

Herman Cain

March 22nd, 2011
11:38 am

Good spin usinuk, but as usual, that is not what I said. You feel sorry for those who are still doing the menial labor as they get old, why were they not able to move up the ladder in 40-50 years in the work force? Was some evil Republican holding them down or were they picking up a twelve pack and lottery tickets on the way home to the old lady and kids. They couldn’t spend the time bettering themselves to become worth more as employees but they could camp out at the Nascar races for weeks at a time. Choices!!!!!!

ByteMe

March 22nd, 2011
11:38 am

Republican “leaders” want to piss and moan about 12% of the budget while the other 88% is out of control spending on Medicare, Social Security, and defense. They appear to have quite a few “three card monty” marks in the audience who bought into the switcheroo.

Peadawg

March 22nd, 2011
11:39 am

“didn’t the last tax cut add to the deficit” – Nope. Extending unemployment benefits and now this “war” with Libya did though.

Herman Cain

March 22nd, 2011
11:39 am

Jefferson, leave the maids alone.

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:39 am

left wing 11:33 – correct. except they are arguing, fairly in my mind, that it needs to be “revenue neutral” after the recovery kicks in much higher revenues, and even that isn’t a serious line in the sand.

read more on what the Go6 are up to

Mr_B

March 22nd, 2011
11:40 am

Herman Cain: I guess in your world everybody needs to become hedge fund managers. I hope you don’t like salads, because those lazy layabouts won’t be arounfd to pick the lettuce.

left wing

March 22nd, 2011
11:41 am

ByteMe @ 11:38 – Don’t forget that the one thing that the health care law is supposed to control is Medicare costs. This is why the CBO scored it as lowering the deficit. And republicans want to repeal it?!?!?

How can they seriously claim to want to responsibly reduce the deficit when they want to get rid of something that will actually help control the costs in the biggest problem we have!?!?

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:41 am

“So if the GOP is really taking taxes off the table, we’re in deep doo doo.”

Divert…divert…..divert……….

ByteMe

March 22nd, 2011
11:41 am

You think Grover Norquist could just be lobbying for more donors to keep him employed?

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:42 am

“This is why the CBO scored it as lowering the deficit.”

LOL!!!!!! The CBO also said that SS wouldn’t cost over a billion dollars.

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:43 am

left wing 11:33 – they are arguing that if none of the deficit reduction measures they propose are ever actually enacted, there will be a combination of “across the board” spending cuts along with “across the board” tax increases…..

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:43 am

“And republicans want to repeal it?!?!?”

Democrats as well.

ByteMe

March 22nd, 2011
11:43 am

left wing: “controlling” wasn’t the word they used during the debate. “bending the curve” is more accurate. Just means the rate of increase is supposed to slow and only if Congress doesn’t get in the way, which they like to do.

Herman Cain

March 22nd, 2011
11:43 am

mr_b: Those lazy layabouts aren’t picking the lettuce now, they are standing in line wearing spandex looking for somebody to pay the electicity bill as they talk into cell phones and screa SHOW ME THE MONEY for the tv cameras.

jconservative

March 22nd, 2011
11:44 am

For the past 31 years we have lived in a Make Believe World where government services can be maintained and/or expanded and government revenue can be reduced.

The result of living 31 years in this Make Believe World is a National Debt of $14.2 trillion.

Now it appears we are going to spend the next 30 years not cutting the government services we need to cut to seriously reduce spending and not raising taxes to pay for the increasing cost of the government services we do not intend to cut.

Is this clear to everyone?

If not try this quote from The Duchess in “Alice in Wonderland”:

“Be what you would seem to be — or, if you’d like it put more simply –Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.”

Or, if that does not help, try this exchange:

“The White Queen: “Can you do addition? What’s one and one and one and one and one and one and one and one and one and one?”
Alice: “I don’t know. I lost count.”

Like Alice, we seem to have lost count.

ByteMe

March 22nd, 2011
11:45 am

Is this clear to everyone?

Obviously not.

USinUK

March 22nd, 2011
11:45 am

“You feel sorry for those who are still doing the menial labor as they get old, why were they not able to move up the ladder in 40-50 years in the work force? Was some evil Republican holding them down or were they picking up a twelve pack and lottery tickets on the way home to the old lady and kids. They couldn’t spend the time bettering themselves to become worth more as employees but they could camp out at the Nascar races for weeks at a time. Choices!!!!!!”

“Was some evil Republican holding them down or were they picking up a twelve pack and lottery tickets ”

nice either/or game.

how about … “or they were busy paying for food / shelter and their kids’ education”

or does that little slice of reality just not fit into your “lazy good-for-nothing” paradigm?

again, there are a lot of communities in these United States where the only work available to people is in the mines or on the line or some other kind of manual labor. you might want to check out all those square states in the middle that you guys on the right call the “real america” – a lot of them are blue-collar. and, while you might be able to move up to foreman, a lot of desk / non-manual jobs aren’t available to folks without post-secondary education.

jm

March 22nd, 2011
11:46 am

“help control the costs” nominally and speculatively. not in any real, significant, or material manner.

stands for decibels

March 22nd, 2011
11:46 am

All I know is, I’m so very proud to live in a nation where high ranking elected officials feel they need to take an oath of fealty to Grover [Bleep]ing Norquist.

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:46 am

Off topic and hilarious.

Nobel Committee asked to strip Obama of Peace Prize

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/304909#ixzz1HLNhOlno

josef nix

March 22nd, 2011
11:47 am

Herman

Who IS picking the lettuce?

Kamchak

March 22nd, 2011
11:47 am

You feel sorry for those who are still doing the menial labor as they get old, why were they not able to move up the ladder in 40-50 years in the work force?

Spent 30 years as a self-employed carpenter in the new home construction biz.

What “up-the-ladder” rungs are you talking about?

Independent

March 22nd, 2011
11:48 am

So the Republicans won’t accept tax increases and the Democrats won’t accept spending cuts, so here we are. What we need is to vote out any politician with a (R) or a (D) after their name.

@@

March 22nd, 2011
11:48 am

I’m guessing their plan is to simplify the tax code while eliminating some tax credits and subsidies. ^^^ That along with cutting government waste could go a long way in reducing our deficit.

Face it! Cutting entitlements across the board is the only way to go.

EVERYBODY loses a little skin. Fair and equitable to my way of thinking.

Jefferson

March 22nd, 2011
11:48 am

Bring back the marginal rates of the 1950’s and spending won’t have to be cut so much.

ByteMe

March 22nd, 2011
11:48 am

jm: if you had read the bill, you would have a different opinion. One of the features of the bill is that a Medicare board is created for the expressed purpose of identifying things that Medicare should not be paying for or having hospitals do differently or anything that saves money, present a proposal in the form of legislation for Congress to either vote up or down. Congress cannot amend, they can only vote up/down. Now how is that not real and significant? Certainly Congress can vote it down, but you vote for Congressional representation just like the rest of us, so you get to decide how real your representative gets to be.

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:48 am

“What we need is to vote out any politician with a (R) or a (D) after their name.”

Yeah, cause that’ll work.

AmVet

March 22nd, 2011
11:49 am

These borrow, borrow, borrow and spend, spend, spendaholic Republicans need an intervention.

And in the case of their rube constituents, a lobotomy.

Three actions that will make big progress to resolving the problem – three more income tax brackets for the super-rich, cut at least 30% off the DoD budget, and no more corporate welfare.

Or you could just be a neo-con and try to tweak the tiniest part of the equation and see if you get substantive results.

Which actually segues nicely off of the previous thread about the vast shortcomings of our education system…

Doggone/GA

March 22nd, 2011
11:49 am

“and, while you might be able to move up to foreman, a lot of desk / non-manual jobs aren’t available to folks without post-secondary education.”

And there aren’t enough of those jobs for everyone to move up TO, and not everyone is suited to moving to a job like that in the first place. And not everyone WANTS to move up to that job.

ByteMe

March 22nd, 2011
11:50 am

Bring back the marginal rates of the 1950’s and spending won’t have to be cut so much.

Or the 60’s. Or the 70’s. Or even the mid-80’s, for that matter.

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:50 am

“Face it! Cutting entitlements across the board is the only way to go.”

1: End the dept. of education.
2: Abolish the IRS.
3: End collective bargaining.
4: End the death tax.
5: Fair Tax

USMC dawg

March 22nd, 2011
11:50 am

Looks like Democrats don’t want to pay their FAIR SHARE of Taxes:

Democratic Senator, Claire McCaskill, nearly $300,000 in UNPAID taxes:
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/03/21/democratic-senator-reveals-nearly-300000-unpaid-property-taxes

stands for decibels

March 22nd, 2011
11:50 am

Who IS picking the lettuce?

I was going to grab one of those $50/hr gigs doing just that, but I was told by a high ranking elected official “you can’t do it, my friend.”

Peadawg

March 22nd, 2011
11:50 am

“Nobel Committee asked to strip Obama of Peace Prize” – LOL! He shouldn’t had got it to begin with.

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:51 am

“vast shortcomings of our education system…”

And what university did you attend, Vet? I believe it’s the 12th time I’ve asked nicely.

Del

March 22nd, 2011
11:51 am

Spending cuts and adjustments to entitlements first and then consider tax increases. I don’t think the public will tolerate anything less than that, although liberals who continue to live in fantasy land will continue to believe they will.

USinUK

March 22nd, 2011
11:51 am

“What “up-the-ladder” rungs are you talking about?”

haven’t you heard, Kam – if you can’t move up the corporate ladder from a coal miner one day to CEO of the company by the time you’re 50, then you’re a lazy good-for-nothing scumbag!

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:51 am

USMC dawg

Posted that yesterday and nary a peep from the left.

Charlie Brown

March 22nd, 2011
11:52 am

I’m shocked! Shocked, I tell you!!!

At least I know Lucy really IS going to hold the football for me this time.

Normal

March 22nd, 2011
11:53 am

I don’t get it…didn’t Dick Cheney say deficits don’t matter? If it didn’t matter for him and President Bush, why should it matter for President Obama?
————————-

By The Way, All those missles we are shooting at millions a pop sure is making the Military Industrial Complex smile…profits, profits, profits!

AmVet

March 22nd, 2011
11:53 am

“Or you could just be a neo-con and try to tweak the tiniest part of the equation and see if you get substantive results.”

And then right on cue, this absurd and laughable nonsense:

1: End the dept. of education.
2: Abolish the IRS.
3: End collective bargaining.
4: End the death tax.
5: Fair Tax

Peadawg

March 22nd, 2011
11:54 am

“These borrow, borrow, borrow and spend, spend, spendaholic Republicans need an intervention.” – Republicans hadn’t had majority power in 2+ years. Try again.

Jefferson

March 22nd, 2011
11:54 am

Fair tax is like saying, great tasting dirt.

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:55 am

“And then right on cue, this absurd and laughable nonsense:”

And right on cue, instead of debating any of said solutions, Vet throws out…….nonsense.

Hey Vet, what university did you attend?

crickets…..crickets…..chirp……chirp……

josef nix

March 22nd, 2011
11:55 am

SFD

Oh, no! Not John McCain!!! Be careful or they’ll be sending the agents of the Liberal Inquisition after you, too! Seriously, though, he’s right…that’s as in correct…

Gator Joe

March 22nd, 2011
11:55 am

Jay,
The Republicans, especially the wealthiest ones, have taken the art of propaganda to a new level, and it is especially effective on their Tea Party wing and their members who will not think for themselves. Deficits, and the Debt, will not be controlled without fairly taxing corporations (some of which pay little, or no taxes) and the wealthy. Combined with tax policy, spending needs to be addressed in areas where significant results can be achieved, beginning with defense spending.

stands for decibels

March 22nd, 2011
11:55 am

And then right on cue, this absurd and laughable nonsense:

[...]

2: Abolish the IRS.

Come on, AmVet, you know there’s this lonnnng list of nations that collects its tax revenues on the honor system, without an enforcement mechanism of any kind.

AmVet

March 22nd, 2011
11:55 am

“By The Way, All those missles we are shooting at millions a pop sure is making the Military Industrial Complex smile…profits, profits, profits!”

And that’s the shame of it, brother Normal.

For every dollar we throw away on education, healthcare, infrastructure, etc we could be building more Tomahawks…

USinUK

March 22nd, 2011
11:55 am

“At least I know Lucy really IS going to hold the football for me this time.”

AUGH!

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:55 am

“Republicans hadn’t had majority power in 2+ years. Try again.

Vet can’t, Peadawg. All Vet is capable of doing is throwing out sophomoric nonsense.

Herman Cain

March 22nd, 2011
11:56 am

gee kammie, don’t know what ladder you were on. My ladder started as human backhoe, then plumbers helper, then plumber, then service manager, then owner of my own company. Before you jump on the advantages I have had, I dropped out of high school (GED later) married young, had kids too young, but I managed to be responsible and put food on the table, clothes on their backs and even though they were home schooled ( I know how bedwetters hate the fact we are allowed to not send them to government indoctination centers) now 3 of the four have graduated college with the fourth to start next fall. It didn’t take government/taxpayer handouts to do it, just hard work. Sorry your ladder was missing a few rungs.

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:56 am

“The Republicans, especially the wealthiest ones, have taken the art of propaganda to a new level”

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr_B

March 22nd, 2011
11:57 am

The frequently repeated lie that liberals won’t accept any spending cuts is really getting old. I can think of lots of places to cut, and not just the military.

AmVet

March 22nd, 2011
11:57 am

“Republicans hadn’t had majority power in 2+ years. Try again.”

Because as we all know, peadawg, this MASSIVE fiscal problem in America wasn’t thirty, forty or fifty years in the making, was it?

Everything was economic roses up until January 21, 2009, right?

Head slap…

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:58 am

“Deficits, and the Debt, will not be controlled without fairly taxing corporations”

Gotta love the wealth envy crowd. Always blaming everyone else for their own mistakes and poverty.

WOW

March 22nd, 2011
11:58 am

“Everything was economic roses up until January 21, 2009, right?”

So where are all those shovel ready jobs Obama promised?

crickets…..crickets…..chirp………….