In Libya, Obama playing the cards he’s been dealt
President Obama’s decision to join our European and Arab allies in launching air assaults against Libyan forces has been criticized by some as an ad hoc, patched-together reaction rather than a carefully thought-out strategy. And to a degree, they’re right. Sometimes, an unexpected and quickly changing situation does not permit the careful application of strategy. Sometimes, you just have to play your cards as they are dealt, recalculating risk and reward as each card is flipped your way. I don’t know how this is going to play out, but so far Obama seems to be playing his hand rationally and cautiously.
Sure, intervening earlier against Gadhafi on the side of the Libyan rebels might have proved more effective in military terms, but it also would have put the United States in the position of trying to dictate outcomes in the Arab world. And not intervening at all, as some on the left still advocate, was a cruel option at best. Had the coalition not acted when it did last week, the world today would probably be sitting back and watching helplessly while a brutal Gadhafi massacred tens of thousands of his fellow Libyans.
Many of those now condemning Obama for acting would have been condemning him for not acting. That’s how these things go. As Obama himself noted in his Nobel Peace Prize speech, “I believe that force can be justified on humanitarian grounds, as it was in the Balkans, or in other places that have been scarred by war. Inaction tears at our conscience and can lead to more costly intervention later. That is why all responsible nations must embrace the role that militaries with a clear mandate can play to keep the peace.”
The fact that we are acting, somewhat reluctantly, at the urging of European and Arab allies also minimizes the geo-political risk. This is not an American initiative in which the United Nations and others are being strong-armed to support our policy; this is an international initiative which the United States has agreed to join as its most powerful member. There’s a world of difference between the two, not least because it has forced other countries to shed their infantilism and take responsibility, rather than leaving the tough decisions to Uncle Sam all the time and then grumbling about the outcome.
Obama’s critics also point out that we have no real idea how this will end, or even how we want it to end. Again, that’s accurate to a degree. However, Gadhafi himself has made it clear that he sees only two possible outcomes: victory or death. He has no third option — at this point, he can’t leave Libya to live elsewhere, and he knows it.
Publicly, coalition leaders are saying that Gadhafi is not a military target, but the smoking ruins of his personal compound in Tripoli offer more convincing evidence to the contrary. And at some point, if Western air power doesn’t take him out, his own commanders might. They now see their units being taken apart from the air, and there’s nothing they can do to defend themselves. The quickest way to make it stop is to make Gadhafi stop.
So we shall see.
– Jay Bookman
ADDENDUM: After all these years, the cynicism of Newt Gingrich continues to amaze and even disgust.
Until last week, the former speaker had been pressing Obama to intervene militarily in Libya and force Gadhafi’s ouster. “This is a moment to get rid of him,” he told Greta Van Susteren on Fox. “Do it. Get it over with.”
So what does he say now? As Politico reports:
“Newt Gingrich blasted the decision to attack Libya Sunday afternoon as “opportunistic amateurism without planning or professionalism.”
“It is impossible to make sense of the standard for intervention in Libya except opportunism and news media publicity,” Gingrich said in a statement to POLITICO, his first public comments since President Barack Obama gave the go-ahead order on Saturday.
Iran and North Korea pose “vastly bigger threats” to American national interests, he argued. There are other countries in Africa where strongmen brutalize civilians, including Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe.
“Mugabe has killed more people, the Sudanese dictatorship has killed more people, there are a lot of bad dictators doing bad things,” Gingrich said.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,639 comments Add your comment
jm
March 21st, 2011
12:05 pm
“If the president is reelected, do you want to serve a second term as secretary of state?” Blitzer asked. “No,” she said.
He continued. “Would you like to serve as secretary of defense?” “No.”
“Would you like to be vice president of the United States” he prodded. “No,” she answered, again.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51425.html#ixzz1HFbekvE7
George W
March 21st, 2011
12:05 pm
BMDPD…
George W, you think it has worked out great. I am ultra conservative and would hardly call it great.
It has helped bury our country in debt. – NO OBAMA HAS BURIED OUR COUNTRY IN DEBT!
It has empowered the Ach mini jihad in Iran. – Actually Iran could be a stong ally to America if the Ayatollah could be removed.
We have lost a lot of troops and the Iraqi civilians are no better off. – While I hate losing even 1 American life. There were more Americans Killed in one day during WWII than the entire Iraq war.
Christians are killed daily. – Please post facts…..this is an issue with Muslims not just Iraq.
If So dammmm was still in power, we wouldn’t have those issues – You are right we would just be going to war with him every 4 years and worrying about him using WMD’s.
patriot
March 21st, 2011
12:06 pm
And while we’re at it, add Clinton, Reagan, Bush I, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman (for sure), FDR (for sure), and Wilson to the list. At least for the 20th century.
DebbieDoRight
March 21st, 2011
12:10 pm
George W@ 11:55: Doggone……do you not remember the weapons inspectors? Hans Blix mean anything to you? How about the mass graves that were uncovered in Iraq?
From DDR – George, You’re dodging her question. This is what she asked you originally…
Doggone/GA at 11:52: Or try educating us…who was fighting whom in Iraq BEFORE we invaded?
Not trying to butt in, just want to see your answer to her question.///drive by////
jm
March 21st, 2011
12:11 pm
What’s the difference between the neighborhood slut that you have to take to dinner and the one that just hops in bed? Just the price I guess. Obama just requires a little bit of wining and dining apparently.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/21/opinion/21douthat.html?_r=1
George W
March 21st, 2011
12:11 pm
Debbie……you think ONLY civil war is a cause to go to war to help defend people in another country????
George W
March 21st, 2011
12:14 pm
Debbie for that matter you could argue the Shi ites and Sunnis…..
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:14 pm
George W. what specifically has Obama done to bury us in debt? Two unfunded wars bury countries in debt. Not programs that have not started yet. Obama is not good for our country, but a strong Iraq (led by a merciless dictator) kept Iran in check.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 21st, 2011
12:15 pm
I swear, from the bs that’s peddled here, y’all should run for congress, run for rotor rooter man, or city sewage manager. If it’s all that damned easy, why are y’all wasting your time on an ajc blog. You should have your asses planted in a leather chair somewhere in DC, advising our government on what to do.
Hi DDR!!!
//drive-by
bob from account temps
March 21st, 2011
12:16 pm
what i find laughable is the news account from around the US that state the US is leading the way, including the AJC.
Normal
March 21st, 2011
12:16 pm
George W
March 21st, 2011
12:11 pm
Why should we defend the people of other countries when we won’t help ours? As in health, education, jobs, etc.?
Mick
March 21st, 2011
12:16 pm
Who cares what karl rove thinks? He’s a traitor and lawbreaker, he should be in shackles and behind bars….
AmVet
March 21st, 2011
12:16 pm
Kam, it would take two things the three or so ultra-neo-cons here lack – basic high school reading comprehension skills, and the first shred of intellectual honesty.
Along with brother Normal, I have never wavered an inch in calling for an end to these misguided, mismanaged, criminal Crusades.
Even before they began, I called the Bush/Cheney PNAC pooosies what they rightful were. I also said the never-served, mental midgets were completely incompetent and would f–k things up horrifically. I also said, even before he was elected, that BHO was going to be GWB-lite and another poster boy for the military-industrial complex.
Was I wrong about any of that?
The ultra-non-conservative conservatives know the truth, but to admit so requires some amount of hair downstairs..
And to this day they foolishly STILL try to figure out a way to justify Bush’s deadly mistakes and ignore his serial lack of ethical standards. And the only card they can play is that the Uppity Muslim is doing it too!
Though I said back then that they were dead wrong about him, and that, in 2008. But that is hardly newsworthy.
Forever clueless…
George W
March 21st, 2011
12:16 pm
BMDPD……how do you think the Iraqi people feel?
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:17 pm
George W. Islam is very violent. Heck, the Sunni and Shiite factions love to kill each other. Their culture needs a strong, tyrannical type government to keep peace. One side has to fear for their lives constantly. That keeps peace! Once you remove the King, dictator, etc.. complete chaos ensues. There is no peace in Islam.
Kamchak
March 21st, 2011
12:17 pm
What’s the difference between the neighborhood slut that you have to take to dinner and the one that just hops in bed?
Douchehat called her a “chunky Reese Witherspoon.”
George W
March 21st, 2011
12:17 pm
Normal…..last time I checked our health and education are superior to most of the rest of the world…..it is not the job of the government to create jobs! However is doing his best to kill jobs and prevent growth.
George W
March 21st, 2011
12:20 pm
BMDPD…..really? Iraq actually seems very peaceful now. I actually talked to two soldiers last week they just got back from Iraq and said it has calmed down dramatically, the citizens great appreciate them and they are now functioning similiar to contracted police.
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:20 pm
If Soo damm was still in charge, Yuck mini jihad would have his hands full with Iraq. He wouldn’t have time to run his mouth and cause trouble. He would be too worried about Soo dammm. When we took out our enemy in Iraq, we took out Yuck mini jihad’s enemy too. Incidently, Sooo dam = Sunni and Yuck mini = Shiite. Christians were free to worship under Sooo dam. I will pull up sources shortly.
Jefferson
March 21st, 2011
12:21 pm
When Libya shoots down a passenger jet with US folks on board, some will wonder why.
Mick
March 21st, 2011
12:21 pm
**However is doing his best to kill jobs and prevent growth.**
Complete and utter fiction only believed by the uninformed….
AmVet
March 21st, 2011
12:21 pm
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:17 pm
Well said.
And that has been the fear since the fall of the USSR.
Where there is a strongman, there is stability.
Remove him and the instability can cause things to go cataclysmic…
Kamchak
March 21st, 2011
12:21 pm
Brother AmVet
Your fan club hangs on your every word, but somehow the point that you didn’t support Obama escapes them.
I wonder what it takes to become a member of your fan club, and are there matching T-shirts involved.
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:22 pm
George, wow I love my friend google…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12022146
George W
March 21st, 2011
12:23 pm
AmVet……you are right USSR was better then that it is now???? GREAT POST!! HAHAHAHAH
George W
March 21st, 2011
12:23 pm
BMDPD…..so what is your point?
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:24 pm
AmVet, you don’t give me the Islam is a religion of peace argument?
carlosgvv
March 21st, 2011
12:25 pm
George W
I agree, but getting our honest, trustworthy Congress to act never seems to work.
George W
March 21st, 2011
12:25 pm
Heading to lunch be back later….
AmVet
March 21st, 2011
12:26 pm
Kam, back during the Reign of Error, I would wear my “I’m a Veteran, I don’t Vote for Deserters” t-shirt to Kroger, etc just to see how many people noticed and how many Bush fans got PO’d.
It was a real laugh.
This one is also good for a chuckle…
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1181.snc4/150325_451298162749_545277749_6034168_7107387_n.jpg
AmVet
March 21st, 2011
12:27 pm
BMDPD, why on earth would I?
They are just following in the deadly historic footsteps of their Abrahamic cousins – the Christians…
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:27 pm
My point is that Islam needs tyrants as much as we need freedom. Attacking Libya was not smart and in hindsight attacking Iraq wasn’t smart. If I had to do it over again, Soo dam would still be in charge and we would have totally destroyed every single Taliban/AlQaeda member by a complete invasion of Afghanistan. We don’t even know who the ‘rebels’ are in Libya! I don’t know how many times I have to repeat that!
carlosgvv
March 21st, 2011
12:28 pm
WOW
So, you don’t think there is any moral corruption and decay in America?
If so, you need to find another site that more suits your mental capacity. A good tabloid trash site would be more in your line.
poison pen
March 21st, 2011
12:30 pm
AmVet, what do you wear to Krogers now? ” I don’t vote for anyone who never served ”
I have an honorable discharge also but I don’t need to brag about it, do you want sympathy or what??????
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:30 pm
AmVet, interesting that you should say that. This nation, in which most still align their beliefs with Christ doesn’t need a dictator.
Kamchak
March 21st, 2011
12:32 pm
…we would have totally destroyed every single Taliban/AlQaeda member by a complete invasion of Afghanistan.
Chinggis Khaan couldn’t conquer Afghanistan, and it was in his backyard.
Left wing management
March 21st, 2011
12:35 pm
Juan Williams is a petty little man with little intellectual integrity. I think he fits in great at FOX. His views on NPR are about as valid as OJ Simpson’s views on the US legal system. His thoughts are of no validity whatsoever.
Dave R.
March 21st, 2011
12:35 pm
I think the competing squirrels in Newt’s head had an argument this weekend.
Just sayin’ . . .
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:35 pm
Kamchak, I know that it is not possible to take Afghanistan. No one in history has. However, we wasted a lot of resources in Iraq, while the enemy was in Afghanistan. There is only one way to take a country like Afghanistan and America is not mean enough to do it. It goes completely against what we TRY to portray to the rest of the world.
Dave R.
March 21st, 2011
12:36 pm
“His thoughts are of no validity whatsoever.”
One could make such a claim about the majority of posters on this blog, including you.
John Birch
March 21st, 2011
12:37 pm
Bush was deemed by many, on the left, as being the worst President ever. Why? Primarily for attacking a “sovereign” nation, running up massive debt, and giving tax cuts primarily to the rich. I now officially nominate Obamination as the worst President ever. Why? Escalating the war in “sovereing” Afghanistan far beyond the two brigades the campaigned on, attacking the “sovereign” nation of Libya, which hasn’t attacked us, doubling the annual deficits Bush ran, and cont9inuing the tax cuts for the rich. I’m still waiting for the HOPE AND CHANGE YOU CAN BELEIVE IN!!!!!!!!!
AmVet
March 21st, 2011
12:39 pm
B @12:30. true dat.
And when the affected people in those Muslim countries do what we western civilizations all did starting 250 years ago – forcibly take away the stranglehold power of their murderous men of the cloth – things will get better…
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:40 pm
Kam, you cannot be politically correct and win a war.
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:41 pm
AmVet, keep dreaming.
Mick
March 21st, 2011
12:42 pm
john birch
You make some valid points but in order to qualify for the worst, eight years of damage need to be inflicted upon the country. Obama still lags very far behing bush in that regard…
Kamchak
March 21st, 2011
12:44 pm
The myth of political correctness is just another way for silly cons to wallow in victim-hood.
Abrazos
March 21st, 2011
12:44 pm
“If Obama and the coalition capture Gaddafy, will he be tried in NY City?”
A trial in NYC would be great for the parents of all the Syracuse University students who were killed at the behest of Libya on PanAm 103 in 1988. However, if arrested alive, Gadhafi would be tried at the Hague. The International Criminal Court has already opened a war crimes investigation of Moammar Gadhafi, his sons and top aides.
John Birch
March 21st, 2011
12:44 pm
Bush attacks sovereign” nation = antichrist who should be treid as a war criminal, O attacks “sovereign” nation = just playing the cards he was dealt. Lib’s, unlike Doc Holliday in Tombstone, hypocrisy knows no bounds.
Dave R.
March 21st, 2011
12:45 pm
This is just a carefully orchestrated balancing act by Hope & Change designed to please no one and offend no one, and done simply for political purposes looking ahead to 2012.
When you’re the least qualified person in any room you enter, as he nearly always is, this is the best we can expect.
DebbieDoRight
March 21st, 2011
12:46 pm
Has the AJC stopped paying and/or decreased payment to their Opinion Columnists/Writers/Bloggers? Has anyone else noticed how they only post a column maybe 3x a week instead of daily?
John Birch
March 21st, 2011
12:47 pm
mick – He’ll have the 8 year Bush deficit surpassed in three years, so I’d say he’s well on his way. Hopefully, we won’t have 8 years of this Obamination, the last one never should have gotten a second term and wouldn’t have if the Dems had anything but that loser Kerry to run against him.
AmVet
March 21st, 2011
12:47 pm
I have no dreams about religion. I simply note the uncanny similarities between their zealots and ours…
Birch, not so fast, when GWB-lite, BHO gets 5,000+ more dead GIs sent home, when he sends environmental protections reeling backwards thirty to fifty years, when he orchestrates another final siege of the the attempted corporate destruction of capitalism, when he sleeps at switch while we get attacked, when he contrives a Crusade, let me know…
Mick
March 21st, 2011
12:47 pm
**When you’re the least qualified person in any room you enter, as he nearly always is, this is the best we can expect**
He won the majority of votes in 2008, so that makes him the most qualified man to be in the room. When and if he is ousted in 2012, then your argument will be validated…but only then.
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
12:51 pm
Kamchack, my point was that you cannot win a war with that culture without being extremely cruel. That is the only language that they understand. That is why they need a strong dictator to keep their countries from unravelling into chaos. You need to put the fear of their God into them. What you don’t realize is that this is a holy war. If one side believes it is a holy war, then you have a holy war. You have to feed their bodies to pigs, use pig blood on them prior to killing them in the streets for all to witness. If you drive them out and start re-building, they will just come back. They do not understand love. They understand cruelty and hate. That is why they have to be ruled by tyrants!
Mick
March 21st, 2011
12:51 pm
john birch
Who do you see on the horizon? I see a steady stream of losers lined up to be the new boss same as the old boss…we don’t have a system that will push someone who has integrity and honesty to the top. In order to make it, you need to sell your soul for the money and power… we are in a very bad cycle of politics…
Chris Matthews
March 21st, 2011
12:51 pm
Obama is clueless! Worst President in American History!
Dave R.
March 21st, 2011
12:52 pm
Mick, you need to keep up with the argument on “qualifications”.
His was the least vetted, lightest resume in Presidential history, and in THAT regard, he remains the least qualified in every room he enters.
And it is a crying shame that every time this is brought up, libs like you deflect to the “legal” qualifications, rather than try to defend his actual lack of experience, accomplishments or resume.
Paulo977
March 21st, 2011
12:52 pm
Doggone
“NO WMD were found.” Did they interpret it to mean the man had actually found some?..The misinterpretation of so many things is astounding!!!
Bill Orvis White
March 21st, 2011
12:54 pm
Speaker Gingrich is right. Hussein Obama is incompetent and arrogant – end of story. Lil Hussein doesn’t understand what he is doing and as a result, is increasing the deficit he created. So, Lil Hussein waved the white flag of surrender in Iraq, screwed up Afghanistan and bombed Libya willy-nilly. When will someone start impeachment hearings? Now, as the incompetent bombings continue with Socialist England and France, Lil Hussein is on a $1.2 million/day trip to South America where he is dining on $115 Chilean Sea Bass. Good night!
Amen,
Bill
Kamchak
March 21st, 2011
12:57 pm
An individual considered one of the most ruthless conquerors of all time couldn’t take Afghanistan.
You have been punked the same as all others
Mick
March 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
dave r
If it were so easy to become president, than why don’t you give it a whack? The primary system is a marathon and he bested hillary, became the nominee, then beat mccain. Timing and luck also play a part. If mccain did not pick palin, then he might be the one leading us into more wars. Like it or not, and this is where your prejudice shows, obama was vetted by the people and was chosen…you just don’t like it…by the way the previous president was similarly lightly vetted and lost the popular vote…go figure..
carlosgvv
March 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
Mick – “we are in a very bad cycle of politics”
So true. And, to make matters worse, there seems to be no way to break out of this cycle.
Mick
March 21st, 2011
1:00 pm
bill orvis
Are you a serious person or a cartoon character?
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
1:02 pm
Kam, they could be taken, you would have to wipe them completely out, but they could be taken. Our country is not man enough to do it. It is people like you, that make it that way.
Thulsa Doom
March 21st, 2011
1:04 pm
Mick,
8 years of damage? I see you’re good for a little revisionist history there Mick. The reality is that for 6 of his 8 years under Bush we enjoyed decent economic growth, low inflation, and low unemployment on average of around 5%. Those are the facts sir.
The bad is that Bush got us involved in an unpopular Iraq war and he ran deficits. But the reality is that in just over 2 years under Obama we are still experiencing 9% unemployment and 10.4% here in Georgia, inflation is on the rise with dramatic recent rises in food prices, and gas is soaring towards $4 a gallon. Inflation is expected to get even worse.
And while we criticize Bush for deficits the reality is that he is an spending midget compared to the spending goliath known as Obama. The numbers don’t lie. Nearly 5 trillion in new debt, a projected 1.6 trillion dollar debt for FY 2011, and the Obama administration itself has projected large deficits through 2020. Just the facts sir.
On the war front Obama has kept us in the same 2 wars that Bush started and is now opening up a 3rd front in Libya. And in case you haven’t noticed he is not going to close gitmo.
You can look at any criticism of Bush- wars, deficits, unemployment, economic growth, inflation including the cost of food and gas etc. and look at the same issues under Obama and in all of these issues things are the same or dramatically worse under Obama. The facts do not lie.
Swede Atlanta
March 21st, 2011
1:04 pm
BMDPD – you are off the mark with your analysis of the relationship between Islam and the need for strong autocratic rule.
Indonesia, the world’s fourth most populous country with the largest Muslim population is a republic with an elected president and legislature. Malaysia is a contitutional monarchy following a Brtish model. Turkey is a republic with elected leaders and potentially on track to become a member of the European Union.
These nations with majority Muslim populations are for the most part secular – i.e. Islamic law may inform their civil laws but do not define them.
So it is easy to look across the Muslim world and find a host of autocratic rulers. Many of these nations lack any history of democratic institutions dating back to European imperialism. The very existence and composition of many countries in the Middle East owe to decisions taken by the Europeans and to a lesser extent Americans after both world wars.
But you ignore from your analysis a country like Indonesia which, while not perfect, has a democratically elected government and is the most populous Muslim nation on earth.
Kamchak
March 21st, 2011
1:06 pm
History has proven that people like you have failed miserably in Afghanistan.
There’s an old saying — something about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Mick
March 21st, 2011
1:06 pm
**Nearly 5 trillion in new debt**
That has been debunked here time and time again….the policies of clinton were an advantage to bush whereby the policies of bush came crashing down in sept 08. Talk about revisionist history?
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
1:07 pm
Both of the Nations mentioned either had heavy Christian or European influence. Try again.
Left wing management
March 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
Bill Orvis White: Speaker Gingrich is right. Hussein Obama is incompetent and arrogant – end of story
He hasn’t been speaker for quite a while, you know, and incompetence and arrogance are prime reasons for how that turned out. Remember?
Now, as the incompetent bombings continue with Socialist England and France
Ha ha, that’s a laugh. Do you read much Orvis? No, Drudge Report doesn’t count.
Dave R.
March 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
And once again, Mick, you deflect to votes, rather than actual qualifications.
Executive experience = None.
Legislative experience (including actual developed and passed bills) = None.
Previous work history that might qualify you for this position = None.
Ability to charm the crap out of the mindless masses = Extensive.
This is what you voted for, Mick. And no matter how much you try to avoid the discussion, this is the least qualified President in history. And the reason why we have a rudder-less ship of state 2 years following his inauguration.
Thulsa Doom
March 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
Afghanistan can definitely be taken. That is not the issue.
The issue is that the tribal areas of the porous Pakistan side of the border with Afgh. cannot be taken. And in the history of guerrilla warfare a guerilla movement operating freely from the sanctuary of another country has never been defeated. And never will. They can simply outwait us.
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
1:09 pm
Also, either one of those countries could be destabilized at any time.
Normal
March 21st, 2011
1:10 pm
How is it that one Neo-Con can say the government is not responsible for creating jobs and another Neo-Con will blame President Obama for the high unemployment rate in the country? Just askin’
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
1:11 pm
Thulsa, if you kill all of their women and children, they won’t have anything to come back to!
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
1:12 pm
Please do not think I am advocating that, though.
Swede Atlanta
March 21st, 2011
1:13 pm
BMDPD
I don’t need to try again. Your broad assertion is that Islam, and those that practice it, require strong autocratic rule.
I don’t dispute that Indonesia was Dutch and they ruled with a ruthless despotism. Malaysia fared better under British rule. The Ottoman Empire that dissolved after the First World War had not been under European control since the days then the Ottoman Turks charged the gates of Vienna and defeated the Christians.
There are absolutely no facts to maintain a broad assertion that Muslims require autocratic rule. If you knew a little more about the Middle East (I lived there for 5 years) and its history you would not make such baseless claims.
Mick
March 21st, 2011
1:13 pm
dave r
OK, in your book just because you get the most votes doesn’t matter. I have many issues with obama and his presidency but I would take him 100 time over rather than his predecessor, who I never felt comfortable with either. The bush resume was predictable in that every company he ever ran or started went bankrupt and that’s just how he left america…
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
1:15 pm
Swede, you are so full of it and bought into their crap. Muslims will kiss your butt in the daytime only to stab you in the back at night. It is a cultural thing. I too, have spent my share of time with them.
Dave R.
March 21st, 2011
1:15 pm
“How is it that one Neo-Con can say the government is not responsible for creating jobs and another Neo-Con will blame President Obama for the high unemployment rate in the country?”
Easy, Normal.
Goverment can’t create jobs without creating a deficit. The amount they pay to create jobs can NEVER be overcome by the taxes they generate. However, government can get in the way of creating jobs through policies and procedures that discourage investment in new jobs. That is where we are today.
Dave R.
March 21st, 2011
1:17 pm
“OK, in your book just because you get the most votes doesn’t matter.”
Only in WHO gets elected, not in any qualifications for election.
And Bush is no longer President (nor could he have run again), so that dog no longer hunts. This is strictly about the current office-holder, whose lack of record you continue to ignore.
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
1:18 pm
“Oh, hello my friend!” They say with a smile on their face. “I take you anywhere you want to go for 5 dinar!” still grinning. If you cannot detect the insincerity in their voices and sly smile, then you are nuts!
WOW
March 21st, 2011
1:19 pm
“I called the Bush/Cheney PNAC pooosies what they rightful were. ”
Hey Loughner, what other kinds of awesome names can you call the right?
WOW
March 21st, 2011
1:20 pm
“Kam, it would take two things the three or so ultra-neo-cons here lack – basic high school reading comprehension skills, and the first shred of intellectual honesty.”
Hey Vet, where did you get your PHD?
OHHHHHHHHHHHH, that’s right, you ain’t got one.
Swede Atlanta
March 21st, 2011
1:20 pm
BMDPD
You obviously have very little personal experience with Muslims and next to no knowledge about Islamic history.
I do not dispute that there are extremist Muslims but I also don’t deny that Christians have hundreds of thousands of human beings in the name of their faith. Christian extremists in this country continue to kill in the name of their faith.
I haven’t bought into anything but have come to my conclusions based on facts and experience. Where do you get your facts and conclusions? I suggest probably the Faux News talking points memo.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
1:20 pm
“So, you don’t think there is any moral corruption and decay in America?”
Absolutely, just look at AmVet.
Normal
March 21st, 2011
1:21 pm
Dave R.
Then let me ask this. Let’s say the Federal Government starts working the railroad. Creating jobs for the reconstruction and jobs for the running of it all. Don’t you think that, run as a business, it would make enough to pay salaries and put a little back in the til(Government general fund)?
Mick
March 21st, 2011
1:21 pm
dave r
I think obama is doing ok with all the issues he has to deal with. I could not envision a mccain presidency doing significantly better. As far as light resumes, there were many presidents who should not have been. So far, this rep house has been a bust….
Kamchak
March 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
Red card?
Or yellow?
WOW
March 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
“Christian extremists in this country continue to kill in the name of their faith. ”
Where/who?
A dad
March 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
Funny seeing all the liberal comments supporting Osamabama’s getting us involved in Libya. Would all you libs blogging here please inform us how many of your sons and daughters are currently serving in the U.S. military…. A show of hands please. Hands? How about just a hand then. One hand? Hmmmm.
Funny how people on both sides of the political fence can put on those rose colored glasses when it comes to sending our armed forces into harm’s way. Guess war is ok if you agree with it, but then again, without your sons and daughtersout there on the front line, you really have nothing to lose do you.
Dad (aka retired CPO/USN, Gulf War vet, been there done that so yes, I’m speaking from experience not what I read or saw on C-Span).
Paulo977
March 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
Swede
Atlanta
“The very existence and composition of many countries in the Middle East owe to decisions taken by the Europeans and to a lesser extent Americans after both world wars”… How right you are! Unfortunately, many of us are woefully uninformed about the part western powers have played in infecting these areas with the ” innner colonialism “syndrome!!
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
Swede, check this out 1500 years of……………..autocratic rule. They can’t handle it otherwise.
http://middleastforum.blogspot.com/2011/02/arab-leaders-dilemma.html
WOW
March 21st, 2011
1:23 pm
“I could not envision a mccain presidency doing significantly better.”
Which is totally irrelevant to anything.
Mick
March 21st, 2011
1:23 pm
wow@1:20
You are constantly whining about personal attacks, yet that is your first comment this afternoon – hypocritimus maximus…
WOW
March 21st, 2011
1:23 pm
A dad
Watch out, certain people on this blog will start hurling insults your way.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
1:24 pm
“You are constantly whining about personal attacks, yet that is your first comment this afternoon – hypocritimus maximus…”
Where did I throw out a personal attack?
Thulsa Doom
March 21st, 2011
1:25 pm
Mick,
Aaaaah. I get it now. When Bush did well it was because of Clinton’s previous policies. Oh. Otay. This despite the fact that Bush inherited the dotcom bust and a recession from Clinton. And of course well over 2 years into Obama’s presidency I get it. Its all George Bush’s fault. Its also George Bush’s fault that Obama has a projected 1.6 trillion dollar deficit and that the Obama administration itself has projected large deficits through 2020. And that’s all Bush’s fault too I suspect?
Joe Mama
March 21st, 2011
1:27 pm
Thulsa Doom: “8 years of damage? I see you’re good for a little revisionist history there Mick. The reality is that for 6 of his 8 years under Bush we enjoyed decent economic growth, low inflation, and low unemployment on average of around 5%. Those are the facts sir.”
Actually, I can demonstrate to you — using the government’s own numbers — that employment DECREASED during the whole of Bush’s administration. Let me know if you’d like to see the numbers, and get your pencil and paper ready, because there will be math.
Your “facts,” at least as regards employment, do not tell the whole story. But raw numbers do, and I shall be pleased to present them to you.
Mick
March 21st, 2011
1:27 pm
doom
Why is the deficit 1.6 trillion? the iraq war was off the books during bush, that is a fact, obama put it ON the books. This has been argued ad infinitum, sorry you missed it…