In Libya, Obama playing the cards he’s been dealt
President Obama’s decision to join our European and Arab allies in launching air assaults against Libyan forces has been criticized by some as an ad hoc, patched-together reaction rather than a carefully thought-out strategy. And to a degree, they’re right. Sometimes, an unexpected and quickly changing situation does not permit the careful application of strategy. Sometimes, you just have to play your cards as they are dealt, recalculating risk and reward as each card is flipped your way. I don’t know how this is going to play out, but so far Obama seems to be playing his hand rationally and cautiously.
Sure, intervening earlier against Gadhafi on the side of the Libyan rebels might have proved more effective in military terms, but it also would have put the United States in the position of trying to dictate outcomes in the Arab world. And not intervening at all, as some on the left still advocate, was a cruel option at best. Had the coalition not acted when it did last week, the world today would probably be sitting back and watching helplessly while a brutal Gadhafi massacred tens of thousands of his fellow Libyans.
Many of those now condemning Obama for acting would have been condemning him for not acting. That’s how these things go. As Obama himself noted in his Nobel Peace Prize speech, “I believe that force can be justified on humanitarian grounds, as it was in the Balkans, or in other places that have been scarred by war. Inaction tears at our conscience and can lead to more costly intervention later. That is why all responsible nations must embrace the role that militaries with a clear mandate can play to keep the peace.”
The fact that we are acting, somewhat reluctantly, at the urging of European and Arab allies also minimizes the geo-political risk. This is not an American initiative in which the United Nations and others are being strong-armed to support our policy; this is an international initiative which the United States has agreed to join as its most powerful member. There’s a world of difference between the two, not least because it has forced other countries to shed their infantilism and take responsibility, rather than leaving the tough decisions to Uncle Sam all the time and then grumbling about the outcome.
Obama’s critics also point out that we have no real idea how this will end, or even how we want it to end. Again, that’s accurate to a degree. However, Gadhafi himself has made it clear that he sees only two possible outcomes: victory or death. He has no third option — at this point, he can’t leave Libya to live elsewhere, and he knows it.
Publicly, coalition leaders are saying that Gadhafi is not a military target, but the smoking ruins of his personal compound in Tripoli offer more convincing evidence to the contrary. And at some point, if Western air power doesn’t take him out, his own commanders might. They now see their units being taken apart from the air, and there’s nothing they can do to defend themselves. The quickest way to make it stop is to make Gadhafi stop.
So we shall see.
– Jay Bookman
ADDENDUM: After all these years, the cynicism of Newt Gingrich continues to amaze and even disgust.
Until last week, the former speaker had been pressing Obama to intervene militarily in Libya and force Gadhafi’s ouster. “This is a moment to get rid of him,” he told Greta Van Susteren on Fox. “Do it. Get it over with.”
So what does he say now? As Politico reports:
“Newt Gingrich blasted the decision to attack Libya Sunday afternoon as “opportunistic amateurism without planning or professionalism.”
“It is impossible to make sense of the standard for intervention in Libya except opportunism and news media publicity,” Gingrich said in a statement to POLITICO, his first public comments since President Barack Obama gave the go-ahead order on Saturday.
Iran and North Korea pose “vastly bigger threats” to American national interests, he argued. There are other countries in Africa where strongmen brutalize civilians, including Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe.
“Mugabe has killed more people, the Sudanese dictatorship has killed more people, there are a lot of bad dictators doing bad things,” Gingrich said.
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1,639 comments Add your comment
stands for decibels
March 21st, 2011
10:32 am
Top Dem Strategist:
and Fox News Employee.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:33 am
“Pretend to be the rational, informed straight guy, though pretty much all he does if proffer (unintentionally) laughable and ignorant crappola to see if people will bite. A big part of Loofahboy’s shtick it to more than occasionally finds some really bizarre, WAY out in far right field Republiloon to make him look more rational and moderate.”
AmVet, you so funny.
JB
March 21st, 2011
10:34 am
Looks like Obama’s chickens have come home to roost……LOL
Joel Edge
March 21st, 2011
10:34 am
“Or a Carter.”
Nah, Carter actually wanted a second term. LBJ just said-to h@#l with you people.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:34 am
“and Fox News Employee.”
They’re all becoming Fox employees because no one watches the other news channels.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:34 am
“LBJ just said-to h@#l with you people.”
So has Obama.
getalife
March 21st, 2011
10:35 am
It was a no fly zone mission.
It is over.
Move on to the next fake outage cons.
You lost again cons..
MPercy
March 21st, 2011
10:35 am
Some more WMD-related lead-up to the Iraq War…things the UN’s inspector, Hans Blix, said about the WMD issues. [from everyone's favorite online encyclopedia]
On December 7, 2002, Iraq filed its 12,000-page weapons declaration with the UN in order to meet requirements for this resolution. The five permanent members of the Security Council received unedited versions of the report, while an edited version was made available for other UN Member States. On December 19, Hans Blix reported before the United Nations and stated in regards to Iraq’s December 7 report (unedited version): “During the period 1991-1998, Iraq submitted many declarations called full, final and complete. Regrettably, much in these declarations proved inaccurate or incomplete or was unsupported or contradicted by evidence. In such cases, no confidence can arise that proscribed programmes or items have been eliminated.” By March, Blix declared that the December 7 report had not brought any new documentary evidence to light.
Iraq continued to fail to account for substantial chemical and biological stockpiles which UNMOVIC inspectors had confirmed as existing as late as 1998. Iraq claimed that it had disposed of its anthrax stockpiles at a specific site, but UNMOVIC found this impossible to confirm since Iraq had not allowed the destruction to be witnessed by inspectors as required by the pertinent Resolutions. Chemical testing done at the site was unable to show that any anthrax had been destroyed there.
Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei presented several reports to the UN detailing Iraq’s level of compliance with Resolution 1441.[2] [3] [4]. On January 27, 2003 Chief UN Weapons Inspector Blix addressed the UN Security Council and stated “Iraq appears not to have come to a genuine acceptance — not even today — of the disarmament, which was demanded of it and which it needs to carry out to win the confidence of the world and to live in peace.”[5] Blix went on to state that the Iraqi regime had allegedly misplaced “1,000 tonnes” of VX nerve agent—one of the most toxic ever developed.[6]
By mid-February the issues of anthrax, the nerve agent VX and long-range missiles remained unresolved. Blix’s March 7 report stated “Iraq, with a highly developed administrative system, should be able to provide more documentary evidence about its proscribed weapons programmes. Only a few new such documents have come to light so far and been handed over since we began inspections.”
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:35 am
“is to watch the rabid righties bitch endlessly about his golf, or his NCAA brackets, or Michelle’s garden. Or some other contrived and completely irrelevant poutrage.”
AmVets got a case of the old amnesia. Guess he don’t remember the “poutrage” over Bush playing golf etc.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:36 am
“It is over.”
Gaddafy is still in power. It is not over.
Paul
March 21st, 2011
10:36 am
RW-(the original)
“When you add all that up it would seem the only way to be in support would be blind faith.”
Well… when you put it that way….
Saw some vids this weekend of Hillary during the campaign and now. This all appears to have worn on her more than it has on Pres Obama.
AmVet
Only difference between such posters and Coulter is, (as Coulter freely admits) – she makes millions with her schtick.
And what’s funnier yet, some people think she’s serious!
JB
March 21st, 2011
10:36 am
@10:32 stands for decibels……………..It’s because on Fox, there are people listening when a tree falls……..Unlike MSNBC
AmVet
March 21st, 2011
10:37 am
jm, when the ABA – which has thousands of Republican lawyers – sends Obama three separate papers detailing his violations of US law and the United States Constitution, in FIVE DIFFERENT AREAS, get back with me, OK?
The Party First neo-cons were disgusting failures by not calling for Bush’s impeachment…
Ramzad
March 21st, 2011
10:37 am
Obama is no war criminal. Obama has a brain and he is using it. That is much more than can be said
for Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Bush and the other diatribes of of fools who got us into Iraq, I am
going to begin working to see that Obama gets a second term.
We are swimming in idealogues and people who, clearly, did not finish high school. So much of this
skid row logic. After the Tea Party Taliban had that negro bring an AR-15 to a political rally; it was
pretty much the end of sanity in American politics.
Joel Edge
March 21st, 2011
10:37 am
“It is over.”
Not yet it isn’t. Even if we step down as the leader of this little mess. We’re still gonna have assets involved. We can’t “move on” just yet.
stands for decibels
March 21st, 2011
10:38 am
The negotiations had been ongoing for months.
I’m trying but honestly don’t get your point, here.
What became negotiated, and signed as an agreement, was essentially what Obama and others had argued for and campaigned on, albeit with a slightly longer timetable for troop withdrawal.
My argument was that once both parties had made that agreement, that agreement mattered, not a 2007 campaign speech.
Furthermore, I can’t imagine too many on the right (or left, for that matter) would take too kindly to the newly-elected President, in January 2009, tossing out the SOFA in order to accelerate troop withdrawals by a few months.
but maybe I’m missing something. Happens sometimes.
Paul
March 21st, 2011
10:38 am
jm
This question plays out in each administration, regardless of the party in power. It’s all about the power of the Executive as Commander in Chief and the Legislative as having the power of the purse and the power to declare war. It gets cloaked in partisanship, but at it’s core, it’s about power.
And the party doesn’t matter one whit.
getalife
March 21st, 2011
10:38 am
We did not lose one plane, nobody got hurt and Libya claimed very few civilians hurt.
Best no fly mission ever?
Yup.
We are back on top thanks to President Obama and Hillary Clinton.
Honor them.
jm
March 21st, 2011
10:38 am
Obama the war monger.
The Thin Guy
March 21st, 2011
10:38 am
Some of the criticisms leveled at the Cowboy George Bush would seem to apply here. What is our goal? When will we know the goal has been achieved? What price are you willing to pay to achieve that goal? At least Bush not only consulted with congress but obtained congressional approval for the military actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Zippy simply declared war on Colonel Q like the Queen in Alice in Wonderland. If Colonel Q is replaced, who replaces him? How do you know it will be an improvement? Back in 1993 the conflict between the Hutus and Tutsis cost the lives of several hundred thousands central Africans. Yet $lick Willie and his charming and vivacious wife Thunder Thighs did nothing. If we are to interfere in Middle East politics, Iran should be the target. Or closer to home, Castro and Chavez. Any fool can start a war, it takes a statesman to end one.
Left wing management
March 21st, 2011
10:39 am
And not intervening at all, as some on the left still advocate, was a cruel option at best. Had the coalition not acted when it did last week, the world today would probably be sitting back and watching helplessly while a brutal Gadhafi massacred tens of thousands of his fellow Libyans.
Those on the Left advocating standing idly by are being infantile and they thereby disqualify themselves from having a constructive role to play in the matter. The right thing to do is to apply military force, just as we’re doing.
it has forced other countries to shed their infantilism and take responsibility, rather than leaving the tough decisions to Uncle Sam all the time and then grumbling about the outcome.
Absolutely right, and maybe one of the most interesting changes in the world we’re witnessing right alongside the momentous changes of the Arab spring.
New Gingrich should be caned. He should be reduced to muttering in a corner like the mad old opportunist that he his. The very opening of his mouth to speak should be met with a howling wind of disdain that blows the words right back into his lying mouth.
AmVet
March 21st, 2011
10:39 am
These endless third grade justifications are so comical.
But Joey/Susie/whoever did it too!
Grow a pair…
TaxPayer
March 21st, 2011
10:40 am
What we need about now are some more posts proclaiming the Dems to be barraging us with hate-filled rhetoric and resentment and angst over voting for Obama, etc., lest we forget.
jm
March 21st, 2011
10:40 am
“skid row logic” splain that one.
Paul 10:38 – I agree. The expansion of Executive Power is bipartisan, and all bad.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:40 am
“That is much more than can be said
for Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Bush and the other diatribes of of fools who got us into Iraq”
We’re still in Iraq.
“We are swimming in idealogues and people who, clearly, did not finish high school. ”
If you’re going to accuse someone of not finishing high school, you may want to use spell check.
“After the Tea Party Taliban had that negro ”
Well, nothing like a good ole lib showing us how much of a racist he really is.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:41 am
“These endless third grade justifications are so comical.”
We don’t call you AmVet for nothing.
JB
March 21st, 2011
10:41 am
Obama politically is like my breakfast this morning…………………toast.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:42 am
“New Gingrich should be caned.”
Whaaaaaaaaa?
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:43 am
JB
Mine was scrambled.
jm
March 21st, 2011
10:43 am
JB 10:41 – with a FRIED egg.
JB
March 21st, 2011
10:44 am
Libs would be the first to whine if the gas pumps were dry as to not get there 8 gallons for their Prius to get to Starbucks.
DebbieDoRight
March 21st, 2011
10:44 am
you know if Obama would’ve listened to the majority of people on the right, we would’ve been heavily encroached in 2 wars, (Afghanistan & Iraq); 1 UN mission, (Libya) and 2 “pre-emptive strikes” (Iran & Egypt) to protect some other countries
oilummmm freedom.@@
March 21st, 2011
10:44 am
It was funny to watch reports on who took out Qaddafi’s compound.
The “could’a beens” left us to wonder. Maybe all of Obama’s “joint this and thats” were intended to offset Gaddafi’s propoganda machine.
And Amr Moussa, Arab League Secretary General?
What happened differs from the no-fly zone objectives. What we want is the protection of civilians. Protection, not shelling more civilians.
Screw him!!!! He needs to focus on his presidential campaign in Egypt just as Newt needs to focus on his.
Typical politicians….always complaining after the fact.
I fear our delayed response in Libya may have brought about the government crackdowns in Bahrain and Yemen.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:45 am
“8 gallons for their Prius”
SILLY! Libs can’t afford a Prius.
RB from Gwinnett
March 21st, 2011
10:46 am
Anybody heard anything about Obama’s exit strategy? Does he even have one?
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:46 am
“we would’ve been heavily encroached in 2 wars”
Uh……we are in two wars, Debbie.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:46 am
“Anybody heard anything about Obama’s exit strategy? ”
Blame Bush and head to Rio.
MPercy
March 21st, 2011
10:47 am
I also find it rather interesting that those $1B apiece B-2 bombers that everyone was quick to chop from the DoD budget as completely unnecessary–after all the Soviet Union was no longer a threat–have been the first wave in Libya (and Iraq before that).
‘Course, it may be a case of, “Well, as long as we’ve got them, we might as well use them.”
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:47 am
“Anybody heard anything about Obama’s exit strategy?”
2012. He will exit the White House.
TaxPayer
March 21st, 2011
10:48 am
Obama must have said, “bite me,” given all the references from the cons here to Obama being some form of breakfast food.
WJ
March 21st, 2011
10:48 am
Mr. Obama is in so far over his head you can’t find him with sonar! My goodness how I wish we had a pro-USA and capable President. Instead we have a remake of Nero’s violin concerto.
JB
March 21st, 2011
10:49 am
This bombing was NOT his idea, but as American President, he HAD to do it. Funny as hell. Can you see the French saving these folks and we’re watching……It would be nice for a change, but watching Obama controlled like a puppet is pretty funny….and typical of him….He’s been voting present for two weeks on it…..LOL
Darwin
March 21st, 2011
10:49 am
Next on our list – repressive Arab ruling royal families. Oh yeah.
Joel Edge
March 21st, 2011
10:50 am
Let me throw in a good word here. Qatar is still supporting this. That may have changed in the last 10 minutes.
DebbieDoRight
March 21st, 2011
10:50 am
Paul: Lots of dancing around the subject, but I’ve yet to hear, regarding our participation in the US-authorized no-fly zone in Libya:
those who are opposed to Pres Obama’s actions: why?
those who are in favor of Pres Obama’s actions: why?
Hi Paul!! (a little late I know….sorry). I’m opposed, why? Because we, USA, need to concern ourselves with our own problems and spend time money and energy on that. If it wasn’t for OIL we wouldn’t give dang about Libya or any of the middle east for that matter.
MPercy
March 21st, 2011
10:50 am
TaxPayer @9:50 am Have mercy, MPercy. Post a link, not a book.
Hard to tell how long the post is in the tiny little composing box. Sorry.
Also, some blogs here don’t allow links or make adding a link send you to moderation.
stands for decibels
March 21st, 2011
10:50 am
Guess he don’t remember the “poutrage” over Bush playing golf etc.
He don’t?
Sigh. I know I’ll regret doing this, but…
There were a lot of complaints about the vast number of trips away from DC to the “ranch” at Crawford, true. I’m sure GWB knew he’d take some hits for that, but obviously, that’s where he liked to spend a lot of time, so that’s where he went. (One can only imagine what the right would do if Obama had fabricated some compound in rural Illinois shortly before his election for that purpose, and spent as much time away from the White House as GWB did, but, whatever.)
As for the left even mentioning GWB’s golfing? That’s mostly due to two things, which you seem to have forgotten.
1. A well-worn (and edited, it must be said) video clip, first popularized in Fahrenheit 9/11, showed Bush in his golf duds, giving some standard boilerplate rhetoric about the importance of fighting terrorism. It was followed (in the video) with “Now watch this drive.” The poutrage, as you call it, wasn’t that the guy played golf—Clinton loved the game too, after all—or anyway it shouldn’t have been. It was that our “war on terror” had become so rote, so routine, that a President didn’t seem to miss a beat by it. We weren’t really at “war,” not in the usual sense, it seemed; we were just watching an ongoing campaign. Or something.
2. Much later, Bush took it upon himself to say that he’d actually given up golfing out of respect for the sacrifices others were making. Which he didn’t have to do, but that’s what he said. Problem was, he didn’t actually give it up, not entirely, and he just made himself look silly for saying he had.
I don’t think either item above was terribly important. But if you’re going to cite this, at least get that much right.
JB
March 21st, 2011
10:51 am
I slept better last night after hearing his speech on it……………Man gives a good speech…..
Left wing management
March 21st, 2011
10:51 am
JB: Libs would be the first to whine if the gas pumps were dry as to not get there 8 gallons for their Prius to get to Starbucks.
What’s a lib?
C’mon, think buddy.
jm
March 21st, 2011
10:52 am
from AP
ZWITINA, Libya (AP) – The international military intervention in Libya is likely to last “a while,” a top French official said Monday, echoing Moammar Gadhafi’s warning of a long war ahead as rebels, energized by the strikes on their opponents, said they were fighting to reclaim a city under siege from the Libyan leader’s forces.
Last a while. Duh.
Joel Edge
March 21st, 2011
10:54 am
stands for decibels@10:50
I have no problem with Obama golfing. As long as he’s not bowling.
stands for decibels
March 21st, 2011
10:54 am
Last a while. Duh.
“It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.”
ah, good times, good times…
DebbieDoRight
March 21st, 2011
10:55 am
jm: WOW 10:13 – yes, you’re correct. The Executive Branch has taken liberties to describe its ability to wage war outside the confines of permission from Congress. Congress, spineless as it is, has not been inclined to snap the leash on the EB.
jm BUSH & co expanded the power of the Executive Branch – now hypothetically let’s say your old friend Mike was once the president of NASCAR and gave the governing body, (especially the preident position) all these powers and “perks” to go along with the positon. Mike is out now you are in, are you going to take back/reduce the “perks” and powers that Mike put into play now that you have a chance or are you going to use them to your fulll advantage?
Left wing management
March 21st, 2011
10:55 am
Fascinating yesterday listening to the paleo-conservative (the cold-hearted nothing’s new under the sun approach) position, represented by the toupee’d George Will, juxtaposed with the neo-conservative (pro-intervention) approach of Wolfowitz.
Given the choice between the two, I side with Wolfowitz. He’s right on this.
What’cha think about that, JB?
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:56 am
“I have no problem with Obama golfing. As long as he’s not bowling.”
Or playing baseball.
Joel Edge
March 21st, 2011
10:56 am
“Last a while.”
There ya go. A time estimate. Could have been “a good bit longer”.
Just a Thought
March 21st, 2011
10:56 am
“Now let me be clear: America cannot and should not seek to impose any system of government on any other country, nor would we presume to choose which party or individual should run a country. And we haven’t always done what we should have on that front.”
Wonder who it was that said that?
Paul
March 21st, 2011
10:57 am
Hi DDR!
Oil does have a way of bringing about action – witness France and England.
Humanitarian will, if it gets bad enough. In this case, hadn’t happened yet, but a pretty good case can be made it was coming.
MPercy
March 21st, 2011
10:57 am
DebbieDoRight @9:57 am MPercy: Pres. Bush sought and received Congressional approval before taking any action, and this debate lasted more than a month in Congress before passing convincingly.
With false, misleading data and intelligence ===>> WMD’s.
So you contend that Congress is rife with idiots (or do I repeat myself?) who were overtaken by the Idiot-In-Chief’s cooked up intelligence? All those sacred Democratic leaders duped by an incompetent bumbler? What’s that say about them?
See my earlier post about the UN’s own inspection into WMD in Iraq.
RW-(the original)
March 21st, 2011
10:57 am
Geez this blog requires incredible amounts of scrolling time, but I digress….
stands,
Your claim was that the whole SOFA had been negotiated AFTER the election. That’s what I called BS on and furthermore it sounds like Obama’s blustery declarations seemed to nearly mirror the ongoing SOFA negotiations as they were taking place. Why it’s almost like he held a high position in government and was a member of the party in charge. Had that been the case he could pretty easily declare the changyhopey thing he was going to do which was really just to model his hopeychange on Bush’s negotiated agreement.
Anyway, the forest beckons.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
10:58 am
Where are all the Code Pinkers today? Where are all the Euro trash protesters from 2003?
JB
March 21st, 2011
11:00 am
As I make my list list up for my companies fifth layoff under this Administration, I like nothing about Obama, his cabinet,his staff, his thinking, or his policies. I hope he is a one term President.
jm
March 21st, 2011
11:01 am
“What’s a lib? ”
Dunno. Maybe, as Warren said: “If history was the guide to gaining wealth, then librarians would be rich.”
That the lib you thinkin of?
cosby smith
March 21st, 2011
11:01 am
The question as wtih Bush and Iraq – do we have a plan..The USA is great a blowing things up, but do we have a end plan. Do we know who we are actually backing? How long is the process and are we in another long and drawn out POLICE policy. the French lead, the USA followed, but does anyone have a plan..Naa and Obama is not showing any leader ship nor understanding of the situation – It is sad that Hillary has more understanding than the sitting President.
jt
March 21st, 2011
11:02 am
Thank God and Amerika that gays can do it now too———————-
“I thought the CONgress had put this aged criminal out to pasture? No such luck. Now this descendant of slaves wants all young people in the United States to share in the joy of slavery by serving David Rockefeller’s bank account their nation honorably. In a sense, Rangel is correct: Why should mainly poor and blue collar kids experience the joy of dying for the Banksters? I think it is important for rich and middle-class—especially rich and middle-class white liberal—kids to share in this great “honor.” I know that now that a Republican murderer president is no longer calling the shots (pun intended), all of those anti-Bush wars rich and middle-class liberals can’t wait for their kids to die for their Democratic murderer president if he calls upon them to do their duty.
But there is “good” news: Rangel’s universal slavery service is not just about re-establishing the draft. It’s about young people being forced into slavery for the government in general. I guess Rangel wants them to get a “heads up” before they join the voluntary private sector and are forced to fork over a good portion of their wages to the IRS—as all good slaves should.
Obama apologists…..DO NOT watch this video……………………
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/82759.html
Joe Mama
March 21st, 2011
11:02 am
IMO, we shouldn’t have gone into Iraq, and President Bush was wrong to order it.
And IMO, we shouldn’t be in Libya, and President Obama is wrong to order that.
If you’re against one, then you should be against both. And if you supported one, then you should support both. IMO, to do otherwise is to make yourself out as a political partisan, and not a reasonable, thinking person whose opinions and arguments deserve hearing.
stands for decibels
March 21st, 2011
11:02 am
Your claim was that the whole SOFA had been negotiated AFTER the election. That’s what I called BS on
Ok, I’ll give you that. Instead of writing “The SOFA was negotiated and completed after the election”, I should’ve simply said it was completed after the election.
furthermore it sounds like Obama’s blustery declarations seemed to nearly mirror the ongoing SOFA negotiations as they were taking place.
in 2007? perhaps, but the wiki sez:
In an interview January 24, 2008, US Defense Secretary Robert Gates indicated that work on a SOFA had barely been started.
AmVet
March 21st, 2011
11:03 am
We did not lose one plane, nobody got hurt and Libya claimed very few civilians hurt.
Best no fly mission ever?
Also getalife, let’s not forget that President Clinton got ZERO American GIs KIA’d during the entire Kosovo campaign. And the chickenhawks hated that. (Two USAF pilots tragically lost their lives in a training accident.)
It was a masterful, precision use of our troops, allies and assets.
In other words the very antithesis of the botched BushCorp Crusades.
And it takes a prevaricating, incompetent failure of a Republican administration, replete with tons of chest pounding pooosies, to completely botch a military campaign. And get five thousand GI’s killed, tens of thousands more horrifically maimed and countless American families ruined.
Oh and a quick $1,000,000,000,000.00+ thrown out the window.
But the 101st Chairborne would vote their recidivist criminals back into office in an instant. And we both know it.
Calling them slow learners is an insult to slow learners…
jm
March 21st, 2011
11:03 am
DDR 10:55 – still blaming Bush eh? I feel crummy for the Presidents all the way through 2050. Cause libs will still be blaming Bush I guess.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 21st, 2011
11:05 am
Obama should have continued the path he was on and not allowed himself to be goaded into joining in on the no-fly zone. People can claim “humanitarian” all they want, but where were those people when the sh*t hit the fan in Rwanda? We should not be involved in Northern Africa at all. If the Arab League wanted a no-fly zone, then they should have gotten off their asses and done it themselves. If France and Europe wanted to protect their oil providers, then let them do it.
Oh well, I don’t even have to scroll through 8 pages to know that there’s already been Bush and Obama bashing, because that’s what some of y’all do best. Doesn’t change the past, and I don’t think your blaming game will change the future either…..
Harry Callahan
March 21st, 2011
11:05 am
I guess never served/never will Barack Obama and his Democrat minders are satisfying their bloodlust by attacking a sovereign nation that has done nothing to us. I wonder how many billions are going to be added to the national debt to fund this unlawful war, and how many of our boys are going to come home in body bags. And all so Barack’s greedy Texas oil buddies can line their pockets. Pathetic.
jm
March 21st, 2011
11:05 am
“work on a SOFA had barely been started”
Everyone should be so lucky to work on a sofa.
TaxPayer
March 21st, 2011
11:05 am
As I make my list list up for my companies fifth layoff
You don’t run one of those for-profit schools, do ya.
jm
March 21st, 2011
11:07 am
Liberals are probably crying in their bathrooms, then pulling the trigger. Their liberal president is a socialist war monger. They only got 1/2 of him correct….
Harry Callahan
March 21st, 2011
11:08 am
I guess Barack Obama the chickenhawk Chairborne warrior has finally shown his true chest-pounding colors.
getalife
March 21st, 2011
11:09 am
Thank you AmVet.
I knew I could count on you for the truth and more facts.
The libs and cons are united in hate of this mission so I guess they wanted to watch another dictator slaughter millions of his people.
I am very happy the President and Hillary said not on their watch. They did not want to be like daddy bush.
Get well soon Speaker Pelosi.
Harry Callahan
March 21st, 2011
11:10 am
Wow, Barack Obama now has us embroiled in three wars against sovereign nations that have done nothing to us. Maybe the gutless never served/never will chickenhawk should go ahead and invade Egypt, I’d hate for there to be any middle eastern countries we’re not actually at war with.
Harry Callahan
March 21st, 2011
11:12 am
“Thank you AmVet.”
“I knew I could count on you for the truth and more facts.”
Congratulations…early favorite for “stupidest post of the week.”
Fall Line
March 21st, 2011
11:12 am
Hey Jay… Your guy screwed the pooch. Stop making excuses.
jm
March 21st, 2011
11:12 am
“I am very happy the President and Hillary said not on their watch”
Well then. I’m glad you support intervening in the Nigerian massacres, Angola, Somalia, etc etc etc. Boy, we’re going to be buuuuuuuusy. Better not cut military funding.
Left wing management
March 21st, 2011
11:14 am
jm 11:03 : Cause libs will still be blaming Bush I guess.
Don’t wanna blow your little mind, but I just put in a positive word for Wolfowitz above, who was on Amanpour yesterday.
So, how’s that fit in with your little view of the world?
jm
March 21st, 2011
11:14 am
If Obama is going to wage this many wars, we probably need a draft.
stands for decibels
March 21st, 2011
11:14 am
Harry! Dude!
You’ve had lotsa time to think it over, so I’ll ask again–are you “trashy”?
Or have you never engaged in pre-marital sex, yourself?
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
11:14 am
AmVet, why are you so hateful? I am a conservative who served 20 years. Answer this….Who are the people we are protecting in Libya? What can YOU tell me about these rebels we are protecting? Why aren’t we attacking Bahrain? They killed a few people too. Is it worth our time and resources?
jm
March 21st, 2011
11:17 am
LWM 11:14 – Oh, I’m not really against dropping a bunch of bombs on Ghadafi. I am against the EB engaging in a war without legislative approval.
Same sh-t different day. This thing is like worrying about a gnat bite. When our country is like a bison being surrounded by a pack of wolves (the national debt). So, simply stated, I don’t much care. Other BS to worry about.
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
11:17 am
Oops, the Syrians are firing on protesters too! We better start attacking them!
WOW
March 21st, 2011
11:19 am
“I knew I could count on you for the truth and more facts.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
11:19 am
We should attack Libya, Bahrain, Iran, Russia, China, Many countries in Africa, Saudi, Yemen and any place that would kill civilians who disagree with their form of government.
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
11:20 am
Heck, if we use the logig that K-daffy is murdering his own civilians, then we should just NUKE the entire middle east.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
11:20 am
“And it takes a prevaricating, incompetent failure of a Republican administration, replete with tons of chest pounding pooosies, to completely botch a military campaign. And get five thousand GI’s killed, tens of thousands more horrifically maimed and countless American families ruined.’
Like I said, Vet reminds me of Jared Loughner.
BMDPD
March 21st, 2011
11:21 am
Sorry, it should read ‘logic’.
Independent
March 21st, 2011
11:21 am
Oil does have a way of bringing about action – witness France and England.
And witness Scotland paroling the Lockerbie bomber – to the congratulatory masses who cheered his name as a hero – all for oil.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
11:21 am
Harry Callahan
What’s amazing is how libs are silent on the fact that Obama has carried on Bush policies and has now gotten us into another war.
stands for decibels
March 21st, 2011
11:21 am
Same sh-t different day. This thing is like worrying about a gnat bite. When our country is like a bison being surrounded by a pack of wolves (the national debt).
In one weekend we’ve already sent 110 or so Freedom Missiles (ok, Tomahawks), which go for between $600,000 and $1,200,000 a pop.
That’s something like eleventy times what NPR receives from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
I mean, as long as we’re talking gnats and suchlike.
jm
March 21st, 2011
11:22 am
Obama. The third Bush administration?
James
March 21st, 2011
11:22 am
I wonder if Bookman would have been as understanding if George Bush were the president. I think we all know the answer to that. What a hypocrite!!
WOW
March 21st, 2011
11:22 am
“AmVet, why are you so hateful? ”
Because that’s what liberalism is all about.
jm
March 21st, 2011
11:23 am
sfd 11:21 – no doubt, the NPR budget is comparatively meaningless. Then again, they don’t want the money, so why bother.
WOW
March 21st, 2011
11:23 am
“I wonder if Bookman would have been as understanding if George Bush were the president.”
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLL NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Oh my gosh, all we’d hear about is how stupid and corrupt Bush is and how Bush hates America.
Independent
March 21st, 2011
11:24 am
Wow, Barack Obama now has us embroiled in three wars against sovereign nations that have done nothing to us.
If I remember, Afganistan’s leaders (the Taliban) allowed their country to be used as a base of Al-qaida, who launched a successful attack on the World Trade Buildings. Did you forget?