Western, U.S. militaries prepare to intervene in Libya
UPDATE (6:40): The Security Council has voted to approve “all necessary measures” other than invasion to halt the Libyan government’s assault on its own citizens.
The UN Security Council is supposed to vote this evening on whether to authorize a no-fly zone — and perhaps even a no-drive zone, targeting tanks and other military vehicles — in Libya, as requested by the Arab League. Fears that China or Russia would veto the resolution have apparently been overcome.
Moammar Ghadhafi, on the other hand, seems eager to crush the remaining opposition, warning that “there will be no mercy.”
“We are coming tonight,” he warned the rebellious city of Benghazi. “You will come out from inside. Prepare yourselves for tonight. We will find you in your closets.”
U.S., French, British and perhaps Arab forces are reportedly prepared to enforce the resolution almost immediately upon passage.
Ghadhafi has an answer for that too.
“Any foreign military act against Libya will expose all air and maritime traffic in the Mediterranean Sea to danger and civilian and military facilities will become targets of Libya’s counter-attack,” the Libyan government warned. ““The Mediterranean basin will face danger not just in the short-term, but also in the long-term.”
There’s an element of humanitarianism in the move, which is being depicted by some as an intervention on behalf of democracy. However it’s hard to ignore the contrast with what’s going on in Bahrain, where the U.S. Fifth Fleet is based. Pro-democracy Shiite protesters are being killed in the streets by Saudi troops sent to Bahrain to make sure that the ruling Sunni royal family stays in power there. That in turn has inspired street and government protests in majority-Shia Iraq.
“In Bahrain in recent weeks, I’ve seen corpses of protesters who were shot at close range, seen a teenage girl writhing in pain after being clubbed, seen ambulance workers beaten for trying to rescue protesters — and in the last few days it has gotten much worse. Saudi Arabia, in a slap at American efforts to defuse the crisis, dispatched troops to Bahrain to help crush the protesters. The result is five more deaths, by the count of The Associated Press.
One video from Bahrain appears to show security forces shooting an unarmed middle-aged man in the chest with a tear gas canister at a range of a few feet. The man collapses and struggles to get up. And then they shoot him with a canister in the head. Amazingly, he survived.”
Here’s the video in question:
This “spreading of democracy” is a complicated piece of business.
– Jay Bookman
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451 comments Add your comment
godless heathen
March 17th, 2011
5:21 pm
Tough choices to be made, but they must be decisive.
godless heathen
March 17th, 2011
5:25 pm
Local boy has his hands full.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_B._Smith
Guy Incognito
March 17th, 2011
5:30 pm
I can’t believe Bush is getting us into a 3rd war!!!!!
Oh, wait
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:31 pm
Shouldn’t Obama wait for the UN to tell him what to do?
Tommy Maddox
March 17th, 2011
5:33 pm
I realize that these things take a little time to organize, but isn’t intervention a little LATE at this point?
Paul
March 17th, 2011
5:34 pm
Not on for long, just got on a wifi, but… from no-fly zone to targeting tanks to no ground traffic to… what? Mission creep, anyone?
And, I fully expect those on this blog who raised all the “Bush attacked and invaded a country that never attacked us” to rail against Pres Obama with the same rhetoric.
HEY! I just saw the Easter Bunny!
@@
March 17th, 2011
5:34 pm
Western, U.S. militaries prepare to intervene in Libya
Good! It’s long overdue.
Complicated in Bahrain but only because of Iran’s influence.
Even the chaos that ensued following the Iraqi invasion was due to Iran and Al Qaeda’s meddling. Sadr should’ve been taken out early on.
As long as Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani has influence over the people, all will be fine in Iraq. A few bumps here and there but democracy can be messy.
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:34 pm
So where are all the protests from the left?
Left wing management
March 17th, 2011
5:36 pm
On balance, I have to say I’m pleased to hear these forces may intervene.
Then again, I had that same feeling when Fletcher Christian was getting ready to launch his mutiny on The Bounty. And as we saw, nothing’s more work then keeping hell in a bottle when all of it’s broken loose.
Left wing management
March 17th, 2011
5:37 pm
Guy Incognito: “I can’t believe Bush is getting us into a 3rd war!!!!!”
Exactly! Well, that’s what you get with 3 consecutive terms with Bush in there. Hey didn’t we ban that some time back?
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:37 pm
Pulizer prize winner suspended. HAHA
Washington Post suspends reporter for plagiarizing stories on Tucson shooting
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/washington-post-suspends-reporter-for-plagiarizing-stories-on-tucson-shooting/2011/03/16/ABzKfHh_story.html
ByteMe
March 17th, 2011
5:38 pm
Let France and Britain lead the way, since this is more their problem than our problem. Don’t spend my tax money on another unnecessary intervention.
Oh, wait, it’s not my tax money when it’s about making wars?
Guy Incognito
March 17th, 2011
5:39 pm
LWM
Sorry for breaking your mind/thought control rule #38. I believe in free speech
Paul
March 17th, 2011
5:40 pm
As much as I expect the 5:34 to be avoided, if UN does vote to intervene, why should US take lead? France is pretty eager. Better yet is Arab League.
US lead plays into recent Iranian propaganda of “US will invade to install friendly regimes to take our oil.”
josef nix
March 17th, 2011
5:40 pm
We’ll see. I still think the US should stand back and let somebody else, i.e. the Brits, French and Arab League take action. And I’m not real sure about that “pro democracy” characterization of the Bahrain situation. Anti-establishment and majority rule, yes…but democracy may be a bit too opitimistic.
Paul
March 17th, 2011
5:42 pm
Enter your comments here
Kamchak
March 17th, 2011
5:42 pm
On September 16, 2004 Secretary-General of the United Nations Kofi Annan, speaking on the invasion, said, “I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN Charter. From our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal.”
Invading Iraq was not approved by the UN.
False comparison.
Paul
March 17th, 2011
5:43 pm
Okay, simple question.
Why should we intervene?
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:43 pm
“Brits, French and Arab League take action.’
It’ll be like watching Benny Hill run around with that song playing in the background.
Guy Incognito
March 17th, 2011
5:44 pm
Paul
Lib anti-conflict reason #2. Oil
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:44 pm
“Why should we intervene?”
Ask Obama, he’s your man to ask.
Jay
March 17th, 2011
5:45 pm
Here’s an interesting piece, from an interesting and authoritative source, arguing that we should leave it to the Arabs and Euros….
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-03-16/libyas-neighbors-have-the-air-power-to-impose-no-fly-zone-themselves/
Left wing management
March 17th, 2011
5:46 pm
Well, looks like the KSU provost candidate won’t be leaving his perch in that Soviet bloc satellite of Ohiostan to join the big Bubba after all.
KSU choice for provost withdraws after ‘Marxist’ criticism
Criticized for a 1998 research paper that included allusions to Karl Marx, and stung by a local newspaper’s musing over whether he was a “Red,” Kennesaw State University’s choice for a new provost has decided he won’t leave Ohio.
http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2011/03/17/ksu-choice-for-provost-withdraws-after-marxist-criticism/
Guy Incognito
March 17th, 2011
5:46 pm
WOW
Why am I picturing Pepe LePew riding a renault tank?
@@
March 17th, 2011
5:47 pm
Paul:
Why should we intervene?
I would ask why should we stop torture, but I know you’re on board (no pun intended) with that one.
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:47 pm
“Here’s an interesting piece, from an interesting and authoritative source, arguing that we should leave it to the Arabs and Euros…’
Daily Beast? Sorry Jay, but that’s like posting something from Media Matters.
Keep Up, the Green Unicorn!
March 17th, 2011
5:47 pm
Dagnabbit, those cons wont be happy until we invade and spend trillions.
But I am with you josef. This is one to sit out. Hopefully we will not be a lead role.
Paul
March 17th, 2011
5:47 pm
Kamchak
Well, we all know what opinions are like -
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:48 pm
“Why am I picturing Pepe LePew riding a renault tank?
Exactly! What are they gonna do, throw cheese and baguettes at the Libyan army?
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:50 pm
“Dagnabbit, those cons wont be happy until we invade and spend trillions. ”
Keep doesn’t realize that Obama is a left winger.
Guy Incognito
March 17th, 2011
5:50 pm
All zey have is zat silly accent’
Paul
March 17th, 2011
5:51 pm
Kamchak
Just read back thru the posts, I didn’t see where anyone raised UN and Iraq. What prompted that post?
@@
You know that? As Jay asked the other day, will you please provide a cite for that? I seem to recall taking a heckuva lot of flak from the Left regarding discussions on what constitutes torture.
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:51 pm
Guy Incognito
As soon as France mounts their army, they’ll turn around and surrender.
Kamchak
March 17th, 2011
5:52 pm
Invading Iraq was without the UN approval, Paul.
That’s not a matter of opinion.
You set a poor gotcha trap.
josef nix
March 17th, 2011
5:53 pm
From Jay’s linked article…
“The attacks on Obama are grossly unfair—this time. He deserves help on Libya. Instead of blaming him, his critics should line up and with one voice shout this: ‘Arabs and Europeans, for once, stand up and take the responsibility that is properly yours. Fly your planes to save the Libyan rebels now’”
Yes.
Left wing management
March 17th, 2011
5:54 pm
Why should we intervene?
Because our double standards demand it.
Last time we tried doing the right thing, we were doing it for all the wrong reasons. Maybe this time we can do the right thing for the right reasons for a change.
Paul
March 17th, 2011
5:54 pm
Kamchak
in which post did I do that? when did I cite UN approval of Iraq invasion?
Soothsayer
March 17th, 2011
5:54 pm
The geopolitical and economic implications of a US-NATO led military intervention directed against Libya are far-reaching.
Libya is among the World’s largest oil economies with approximately 3.5% of global oil reserves, more than twice those of the US.
“Operation Libya” is part of the broader military agenda in the Middle East and Central Asia which consists in gaining control and corporate ownership over more than sixty percent of the world’s reserves of oil and natural gas, including oil and gas pipeline routes.
“Muslim countries including Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Yemen, Libya, Egypt, Nigeria, Algeria, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, possess between 66.2 and 75.9 percent of total oil reserves, depending on the source and methodology of the estimate.”
With 46.5 billion barrels of proven reserves, (10 times those of Egypt), Libya is the largest oil economy in the African continent followed by Nigeria and Algeria (Oil and Gas Journal). In contrast, US proven oil reserves are of the order of 20.6 billion barrels (December 2008) according to the Energy Information Administration. U.S. Crude Oil, Natural Gas, and Natural Gas Liquids Reserves)
Guy Incognito
March 17th, 2011
5:55 pm
A little SAS operation could do it. Cut off the head, and his military will lay down
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:56 pm
“The attacks on Obama are grossly unfair—this time. ”
HAHAHAHAHAAH
Guy Incognito
March 17th, 2011
5:57 pm
WOW
“France mounts”
Guess that’s better than the Greeks
Paul
March 17th, 2011
5:57 pm
transportation’s leaving, later, folks
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:57 pm
Well Bookman, expect gas to go up to $6 per barrel. WOO HOO!
Now go blame Bush.
Soothsayer
March 17th, 2011
5:58 pm
The most important thing (for the West) is that the proper compradors (look this up) come to power in these “revolutionary” countries. That is, that regimes friendly to the West take power. That way, nothing really changes. Just a new dictator for the old.
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:58 pm
“Guess that’s better than the Greeks”
The Greeks of old would have kicked the crap out of them. Too bad they suck now.
WOW
March 17th, 2011
5:59 pm
“That is, that regimes friendly to the West take power.’
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WOW
March 17th, 2011
6:01 pm
Guinness time!
I’m jamming out to this band.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDwlGbEcJ6Y
harvey
March 17th, 2011
6:01 pm
We have enough to do right here. This country can’t afford to get involved any further in mideast wars. Why shouldn’t China take care of this problem? They have a heck of a lot more money that we do. In fact, they have our money. It is time for America to realize it isn’t the big kid on the block anymore, and we have an empty suit president, who may get us into a tar baby, but won’t have the conjones to go all out, and we will find ourself in another dithering war.
Kamchak
March 17th, 2011
6:01 pm
Kamchak
in which post did I do that? when did I cite UN approval of Iraq invasion?
Paul
March 17th, 2011
5:34 pm
Not on for long, just got on a wifi, but… from no-fly zone to targeting tanks to no ground traffic to… what? Mission creep, anyone?
And, I fully expect those on this blog who raised all the “Bush attacked and invaded a country that never attacked us” to rail against Pres Obama with the same rhetoric.
HEY! I just saw the Easter Bunny!
Bush attacked and invaded Iraq without UN approval.
If we act against Libya it will be with UN approval.
False comparison.
TaxPayer
March 17th, 2011
6:01 pm
Let the UN sort it out. Better yet, send Paul and @@ and WOW.
@@
March 17th, 2011
6:03 pm
Paul:
You’ve become a bit of a stickler.
Maybe I’m mistaken. Perhaps you wanted in more clearly defined. Assassinations?
=========================
Who should or will lead?
From jay’s guardian link.
Jets could take off from French military bases if a no-fly zone is approved
[SNIP]
Several Arab countries would join the operation.
[SNIP]
The US had demanded Arab involvement to ensure that the west could not be accused of imposing its will on the Arab world.
[SNIP]
The US crucially insisted that it would only act if there was Arab support in order to avoid it being seen as purely Western intervention. Several Arab countries have promised to provide planes, but insisted on their identity being withheld until the resolution was passed.
Not sure why they’d want their identity withheld but…whatever.
Tommy Maddox
March 17th, 2011
6:04 pm
Let Europe handle it.
josef nix
March 17th, 2011
6:07 pm
“They” kept expecting the United States to step in and “take care of business” and then ready to criticise how we did it. When it became clear that the Obama administration was not going to do it this time and “they” saw what would happen if “they” didn’t, “they” got on the ball. Let “them” handle the dirt work for a change so “we” can go back to being our better natured humanitarian selves…that is change I can believe in…
@@
March 17th, 2011
6:10 pm
The U.N. couldn’t fight its’ way out of a paper bag.
That’s one more dysfunctional agency from which we should pull financial support.
TaxPayer
March 17th, 2011
6:14 pm
Let Kristol and Limbaugh and Cheney, et al, form their own little army and go fight whatever wars they want, without US.
WOW
March 17th, 2011
6:14 pm
“Let Kristol”
So Krystal is gonna bombard Libya with square hamburgers?
Soothsayer
March 17th, 2011
6:15 pm
Those who manipulate the unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government. We are governed, our minds molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested largely by men we have never heard of … in almost every act of our lives whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires that control the public mind.
—Edward Bernays, the founder of the modern propaganda
We have been overwhelmed by the propaganda apparatus to the point that it controls our thought processes, causing us to become relentless shoppers, even against our own interests. It controls our thinking in the public sphere so that we support the wealthy elite, even against our own interests. Far too many of us have been rendered thoughtless and clueless as to what it means to live in a democratic society. It is not democracy because the government says it is; it is democracy when the masses are informed and act through their delegates to develop policy that promotes the general welfare.
josef nix
March 17th, 2011
6:16 pm
JAY
Since you’re here…ask your bosses if you could do us a favor tomorrow p.m….two threads, one for the yap-yappers and one for the music lovers…just a thought…
Guy Incognito
March 17th, 2011
6:17 pm
And it’s location. They can take that UN building and move it to mecca. The effect would be the same
Jay
March 17th, 2011
6:18 pm
Unlike last week, I should be around to monitor that tomorrow, Josef. It’ll be handled.
josef nix
March 17th, 2011
6:19 pm
SOOTH
It’s a conspiracy of a cabal of international zionist hoodlum bankers meeting in secret and pulling our strings, I tell ya! Either that or the Capitalist Running Dogs of Yankee Imperialism…I’m never sure which…
WOW
March 17th, 2011
6:19 pm
josef nix
You and I still have that debate going about Neil Diamond. Don’t chu forget.
@@
March 17th, 2011
6:20 pm
I’ll try again.
josef is promoting segregation?
Whodathunkit!!!!!!!
josef nix
March 17th, 2011
6:20 pm
JAY
Thanks, Mate, we owe you one…
TaxPayer
March 17th, 2011
6:20 pm
Uh Oh! Jay’s back in town.
Soothsayer
March 17th, 2011
6:21 pm
A substantial majority in the US have been so overwhelmed by the consumer/celebrity culture that distracts from the real situation that they are now fearful of harboring a critical thought, let alone speaking critically about the surrender of democracy to the wealthy elite. No matter what outrage the wealthy elite throws at us all, every indicator suggests there would be little, if any, resistance to that outrage. In fact, now is the best time for the wealthy elite to finally win the war and put into action all the highly repressive measures passed by Congress this decade. The repression already authorized, if put into full effect, would make the US a recognizably totalitarian state.
josef nix
March 17th, 2011
6:21 pm
@@
Had to give that one a second look…heh, heh… ISH
Smeat
March 17th, 2011
6:23 pm
Let the French send their planes. They can announce their arrival with accordion music.
F. Sinkwich
March 17th, 2011
6:25 pm
That dude with the video camera needs Videography 101. Pathetic.
Soothsayer
March 17th, 2011
6:25 pm
Jay, how am I doing on the Post-O-Meter? Getting close to getting cut off? Do I need to slow down?
F. Sinkwich
March 17th, 2011
6:27 pm
Oh, our fearless leader is waiting for the UN to tell him what to do.
Has he changed into his mom jeans in Rio yet?
josef nix
March 17th, 2011
6:28 pm
SOOTH
@ 6:25
Be very careful…he’s an Intenation Zionist Hoodlum Banker AND a Capitalist Running Dog of Yankee Imperialism…
TaxPayer
March 17th, 2011
6:29 pm
Well, I’m not waiting until tomorrow to enjoy a little music. I know our days are Heaven Sent.
Smeat
March 17th, 2011
6:29 pm
“licensed to kill gophers by the government of the United Nations.” – Karl
Soothsayer
March 17th, 2011
6:29 pm
Jonix: are you making a joke or attacking “one of your own?”
josef nix
March 17th, 2011
6:31 pm
Sooth
In which case?
WOW
March 17th, 2011
6:32 pm
“Has he changed into his mom jeans in Rio yet?”
No, he’s waiting for opening day of baseball for that.
WOW
March 17th, 2011
6:32 pm
“Jay, how am I doing on the Post-O-Meter?”
Don’t think there’s such a thing.
@@
March 17th, 2011
6:34 pm
And let’s not forget this little bit of info when it comes to Bahrain and Saudi Arabia.
White House spokesman Jay Carney said on Tuesday the United States was aware of Bahrain’s request for help from its neighbors and regarded Saudi Arabia as “an important partner.”
Iran? Not so much.
Smeat
March 17th, 2011
6:34 pm
Not mom jeans WOW – It’s Pajama Jeans and he can wear them to the store, around the compound or even on the basketball court or golf course.
WOW
March 17th, 2011
6:35 pm
“White House spokesman Jay Carney”
I don’t think Mr. Carney speaks with Obama very often. I watched the presser today and it was like watching someone who just woke up from a 10 year coma.
WOW
March 17th, 2011
6:36 pm
Smeat
Like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJBlwUfIoDk
jconservative
March 17th, 2011
6:37 pm
Change of subject.
“…Census Bureau numbers released Thursday. The Hispanic population grew 96 percent, followed by an African American increase of 26 percent. The white population grew 5.6 percent statewide.”
WASP take note. The end is near. What is the phrase? The browning of America? Is that it?
“For English mash #2.”
Just saying.
Soothsayer
March 17th, 2011
6:37 pm
Taxpayer: great Bluegrass post. I thought Bluegrass was dead on this blog. See if you like this one.
Smeat
March 17th, 2011
6:37 pm
“It’s 2am. The phone rings. There’s a crisis somewhere in the world. Who can Americans trust? — Joe Biden. He’s the foreign policy expert.”
Soothsayer
March 17th, 2011
6:38 pm
I forgot you have to cursor down and press the “play” button.
@@
March 17th, 2011
6:38 pm
WOW:
Doesn’t matter. He is the WH’s newly appointed mouthpiece.
‘Ya think Obama will throw HIM under the bus too?
Smeat
March 17th, 2011
6:40 pm
Carney – appropriate name.
WOW
March 17th, 2011
6:40 pm
“Carney – appropriate name.”
LOLOLOL
WOW
March 17th, 2011
6:41 pm
Smeat
I liked Gibbs just cause Gibbs loves Auburn but every time I thought about his name it always reminded me of gimp.
WOW
March 17th, 2011
6:41 pm
“Doesn’t matter. He is the WH’s newly appointed mouthpiece.”
Not much of a mouthpiece.
TaxPayer
March 17th, 2011
6:42 pm
Soothsayer,
Oh yes, I do enjoy Alison. I think she did her best work with Union Station.
Smeat
March 17th, 2011
6:42 pm
Obama’s golf game isn’t any better than his pitching skills. I could give him 10 strokes and still fold him up like a cheap chair. BTW – I don’t get to play 60 rounds in two years.
F. Sinkwich
March 17th, 2011
6:42 pm
Obama: “Yo, Hilliary, has the UN told us what to do yet?”
Hillary: “Yes, Barry, they said we should do some no-fly zone thing or something.”
Obama: “Bummer. How long ’til we find some Arab country to lead the effort?”
Hillary: “A few days maybe.”
Obama: “Sweet.”
WOW
March 17th, 2011
6:42 pm
‘Ya think Obama will throw HIM under the bus too?”
I honestly don’t think Obama gives a crap about his job. He already said he couldn’t care less if he wins another term or not.
Soothsayer
March 17th, 2011
6:43 pm
Taxpayer: I don’t anything at all for her newer work.
1811/1801 - 0311/0317
March 17th, 2011
6:43 pm
Now wouldn’t it just be grand if that satanic idiot had nukes ?
“From the Halls of Montezuma
to the shores of Tripoli”
josef nix
March 17th, 2011
6:43 pm
jconservative…
Pues, aprenda el idioma y no va a tener que punchear #2…
Soothsayer
March 17th, 2011
6:43 pm
Oops! I don’t care anything at all for her newer work.
Jay
March 17th, 2011
6:43 pm
Security Council just authorized “all necessary measures” short of invasion….