GOP pushing for military action in Libya; Obama stays cautious
“With no evidence emerging that Col. Gadhafi is about to fall, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, the top Republican on the Armed Services Committee, and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky urged the U.S. to consider various moves that would mark a sharp escalation in American involvement.
Speaking on ABC’s “This Week,” Mr. McCain said the U.S. can help the rebels now by pumping in humanitarian assistance; by providing technical assistance, intelligence and training; and by declaring support for a provisional government. Mr. McConnell of Kentucky, speaking on CBS’s “Face the Nation,” said that “arming the insurgents” could be an option, citing as a possible model U.S. efforts against the Soviets during the Cold War.”
I understand the instinct to get involved in Libya. Gadhafi is a brutal, half-crazed tyrant, and it’s hard to sit back and watch while his military attacks his own people. But military experts have stressed the fact that implementing a no-fly zone isn’t as simple and straightforward as we would like to think.
“There may be in the end cheaper and more effective ways to deal with the situation such as providing covert arms to the rebels,” said former deputy assistant secretary of state Steve Ganyard, who is a former fighter pilot who enforced no-fly zones.
“We can’t just go in and put airplanes over Libya. It’s going to take a campaign to take out these surface-to-air-missile systems, to bomb where the aircraft are being parked. It’s not just go in and establish a no-fly zone with no cost.
“We will have to blow things up on the ground in Libya if we want to establish a no-fly zone. It’s a two step process and it will take time and a significant military package to accomplish,” Ganyard said.
We also seem to have little idea who the rebel leaders are, or what kind of Libya they’re likely to create should they get power. Given how quickly all this has happened, they themselves probably don’t know the answer to such things. The British, for example, sent an armed diplomatic mission to make contact with the Libyan rebels, but the rebels arrested and evicted the team.
“The team went to Libya to initiate contacts with the opposition,” the British foreign minister explained. “They experienced difficulties.”
The British government is now experiencing difficulties explaining just what they thought they were doing, and the Libyan state press is using the incident as evidence of foreign involvement in the rebellion. So things are a little more complicated and mysterious than it might at first seem.
– Jay Bookman
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953 comments Add your comment
Bruno
March 7th, 2011
7:36 pm
I think even Jay has linked to charts that show the decline in corporate taxes that corresponds to the increase in personal income tax collection and other taxes.
I’m not so sure that it’s as simple as Jay (and you) make it out to be. Any money pulled out of a corporation by an individual is taxed. Thus, even if the corporation isn’t paying taxes as an entity, the individuals who make up the corporation are.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 7th, 2011
7:37 pm
Selective Enforcement
I don’t research that kind of stuff, because, frankly I think the whole system is rigged. You’re speaking to a member of the community that has a history of being repressed in this country. I don’t trust the system, nor do I trust the people elected by the system. However, I will defend, to the death, the Constitution that allows the system to exist.
Billybob
How is it a straw man argument? He said that he had not seen intimidation. That would lead one to believe that he was referring to him personally seeing those things based on the context of his post. I haven’t seen the lunar module sitting on the moon either, but I have seen moon rocks sitting in Huntsville, AL. It demeans your credibility to try to attach something to me when it was nowhere near what I said.
Tom Middleton
March 7th, 2011
7:38 pm
Jay, we need an alliance of free nations willing to help other nations trying to be free, and welcome them as equals when it’s done. It’s kind of a no-brainer, isn’t it?
Once it becomes clear who we all are together and what we’re trying to do, these uprisings for democracy should spread like wildfire, even to the places we now think impossible.
And what do you think the chances for world peace will be then – what we should all be wanting by this point or at least beginning to think about? Why excellent, Jay, absolutely EXCELLENT!
P.S. Let Obama lead. The Mc’s and their bunch have no clue.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
7:39 pm
@Billy bob
“their false template ideas.”
Good call on the Kerry comments, but you do know that anyone can listen to the Fox talking heads or turn on the radio each day to hear right leaning pundits are speaking the same or similar ‘templates, right?
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
7:40 pm
On record in 3 different television programs saying 3 different things about what he did with his medals. The problem with obvious lying is that you can’t keep all your lies straight.
3 purple hearts- none of them from enemy fire. One injury was when the “cowboy” as he was referred to by other swift boat commanders- fired his grenade launcher and a small piece of schrapnel came back and got stuck in his forearm. Rather than just pull the sliver out he went to see a Doc to get a purple heart. A medic- not even a doc- just pulled out the small sliver and asked Kerry why he just didn’t pull it out himself.
Christmas in Cambodia? Kerry was over 100 miles from the Cambodian border. He and his campaign later had to admit the whole thing was a complete and total fabrication.
Combat episodes that he wrote about? His own journal and diaries contradict the fighting that he wrote about in his book. In his book he writes about firefights on specific dates- his journals and diary contradict him with his diary especially noting “we haven’t seen any action yet but we’re just raring to go”.
Liar liar pants on fire- John Kerry
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
7:41 pm
@John Kerry
Did you vote fro Bush?
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 7th, 2011
7:41 pm
Thus, even if the corporation isn’t paying taxes as an entity, the individuals who make up the corporation are.
The two are not one and the same though. My whole line of thought on corporate taxes is this: If corporations are granted personhood, then they need to be full participants in society. That includes paying taxes. If you’re going to exempt corporations from paying taxes (which they pass on to their customers anyway), they don’t need to be considered persons, nor should they have any rights as a person in society would. No taxes paid = no rights granted. If they want the rights (such as free speech), then put the benjamins in the kitty….
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
7:42 pm
@John Kerry
What branch did you serve in? What years? What unit?
Bruno
March 7th, 2011
7:42 pm
I don’t trust the system, nor do I trust the people elected by the system.
Wait a minute, Bro So, I thought you WERE The System.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDP_dULGfGk
josef nix
March 7th, 2011
7:43 pm
SoCo, Scout, et al…
Obama specifically said that the law would be “enforced”….he is required to do that…he is not required to “defend” it. I know that sounds like hair splitting, and it probably is, but…
BRUNO
@7:26
There is that!
SoCo
I’ve always wondered if Lewie’s alien spaceship was the same one that came to Perot’s daughter’s wedding…
@@
March 7th, 2011
7:43 pm
Only one column today?
I just finished skimming the comments.
Paul and Soco:
I’ve always seen AmVet as leaning towards the girly gossip, but you TWO!!??!!
You’re getting worse and worse.
What’s next? Pillow talk?
Sheesh!
Keep up the good fight!
March 7th, 2011
7:43 pm
josef…I dont disagree that there remain many groups that have been and continue to be subjects of discrimination. And it is up to all of us to continue to point out the truth in light of all of the hipocriscy. You and I may disagree as to a few words but not the general issue….. the absurdity of repeating the stupidity of the M Malkin poutrage.
Selective enforcement
March 7th, 2011
7:44 pm
southern comfort,
I was saying that I had not seen any instances of voter intimidation in the news by whites at polling places with batons intimidating voters. Good grief. Did you actually think I was saying that there is no voter intimidation because I myself never saw it in person? How dumb is that?
@@
March 7th, 2011
7:45 pm
Oh, and josef?
“My Mama’s War” arrived today. I look forward to reading it.
Always and Forever
March 7th, 2011
7:45 pm
conservative ALWAYS support the troops
Would that be with extra ammo, vests, reinforced transports, shorter tours, better healthcare, fighting side by side… ALWAYS… whatever.
Keep up the good fight!
March 7th, 2011
7:47 pm
selective…ever seen the complaints about the King Street Patriots and so of the Texas tea-party backed groups that were accused of voter initimidation.
josef nix
March 7th, 2011
7:47 pm
good fight
Oh, I agree, this is a bit of a bruha over something which, really, is not that important, but it does show how far we have come and how far we have to go to what, for lack of a better phrase, an integrated consciousness…
Billybob
March 7th, 2011
7:48 pm
TBS,
Good point, which is why I made my comment about bookman……and it’s why I listen and read as much info as I can, even those I disagree with, in order to cut through the bs…..wish more people would take this approach which would lead to a very informed public……
Always and Forever
March 7th, 2011
7:49 pm
Union policemen and firemen need to have their pensions taken away and their pay cut and their bargaining privileges taken away. Why shoul union teachers be asked to shoulder the burden alone. All for one and one for all.
josef nix
March 7th, 2011
7:49 pm
@@
I look forward to your opinion…ask to Bruin to put us in touch if he would be so kind…
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 7th, 2011
7:49 pm
josef:
Please review that video above about France………… it means two problems for you ! I value your thoughts.
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
7:50 pm
They BOTH suck,
1 or 2 men that served with me in Vietnam support me and my version of my service. Over 100 men who served in swift boats around me adamantly opposed me.
I’m going to ask you a very simple, very common sense question and I’m going to ask you to try and figure it out. Its a pass/fail question and you only get one chance.
Are over 100 men lying???????????????????
Think long and hard about this one. I do have that one guy- maybe 2 that supported me but I’m going to test you and see how much common sense you have so I’ll ask the question again.
Are over 100 men lying?????????????
Billybob
March 7th, 2011
7:50 pm
A&F,
Point being they do not play politics with the military like kerry has a history of doing……I do realize there are no absolutes….
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 7th, 2011
7:51 pm
They Both Suck:
If you are talking about me:
India Company, 3rd Battalion (Thundering Herd), 4th Marine Regiment (1967-68) Vietnam DMZ area.
0311 Rifleman
0317 Scout – Sniper
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 7th, 2011
7:51 pm
Bruno
I’m not The System, I’m only The Man!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAjvUodHUbo
josef
We may have to get our hands on the guest list to find out if he was there or not.
@@
No gossip. There’s nothing I typed here that I wouldn’t type if Harry was here. I see jackassery as just that, regardless to who’s doing it.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 7th, 2011
7:52 pm
Ozzie and Harriet are turning over in their graves:
“An (upcoming) ABC pilot called “Good Christian Bitches” has religious and women’s groups up in arms over what they describe as an extremely offensive and distasteful show title.”
Hummmm ………… I wondered if they would have had the guts to do “Good Muslim Bitches” ?
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
7:52 pm
Christmas in Cambodia???
Big, fat, proven LIE LIE LIE. I was approximately 120 miles from Cambodia and military journals and records proved I was never there despite the fiction piece I wrote about being there. Matter of fact swift boats didn’t even go into that area. They used the other type of riverine boat near Cambodia and not swift boats.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 7th, 2011
7:53 pm
(AJC) The Four Boxes of Liberty:
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
7:56 pm
@John Kerry
YOU LIE……… Not one person who actually served on one of his boats denounced him. There were those who served on other boats in the same unit, but NOT one who actually served on a boat he was on..
Nice try
Once again, when did YOU serve………..
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 7th, 2011
7:57 pm
Excuse me: I only posted the title:
“There are fix boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
The soap box
The ballot box
The jury box
The ammo box
And the coffin box
Please use in that order.
Stephen Decatur Miller (1830)
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
7:57 pm
@0311/0317 – 1811/1801
Unless you are John Kerry as well, I addressed my post to him.
However, regardless of your political leanings, I do want to thank you for your service and sacrifice.
George's Bushisms
March 7th, 2011
7:57 pm
Point being they do not play politics with the military like kerry has a history of doing
I knew that Kerry was no good from the first time I looked into his eyes.
Politically correct
March 7th, 2011
7:58 pm
0311/0317 – 1811/1801
When ya gonna learn? Its only ok to make fun of white people and especially Christian white people. You’ve never noticed that in any commercial where there are 2 or more guys and one of the guys is black and one or more of the guys is white that anytime one of the characters is made to look like a fool or an idiot its going to be the white guy or one of the white guys if there are several guys. You will never, ever see a commercial featuring several guys where the guy made to look like an idiot is the black guy. You won’t see it. You’ll see it if all the guys in the commercial are black but if its a mixed cast you will never see the black guy made to look like a fool.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 7th, 2011
7:58 pm
Very few military personnel will report cowardly acts by their commander as it also badly relfects on them.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
7:59 pm
@JK
When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry,” one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn’t serve on Kerry’s swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry’s crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.”
Need more
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 7th, 2011
7:59 pm
Selective enforcement
March 7th, 2011
7:09 pm
keep up the good fight,
[...] Last time I checked I haven’t seen white people physically blocking and intimidating black voters at voting precincts. [...]
Selective enforcement
March 7th, 2011
7:30 pm
Southern Comfort,
I haven’t seen it in the news either. Please show me instances of white supremacists openly wielding batons at voter precincts and not being prosecuted for it. Otherwise STFU dumbass
Those were your two statements that you made. I didn’t type those for you.
I was saying that I had not seen any instances of voter intimidation in the news by whites at polling places with batons intimidating voters. Good grief. Did you actually think I was saying that there is no voter intimidation because I myself never saw it in person? How dumb is that?
Your second statement said you haven’t seen it on the news EITHER which would lead one to think you were saying you haven’t seen it in person. The second part of your statement, you’re putting words in my mouth. I never said that you made that statement. I only stated that just because YOU personally didn’t see it, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen. You’re obviously the more logically challenged one i.e. dumbass between the two of us. You’re reading and seeing things that are not there. Don’t make sh*t up just to start an argument or debate with me.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:01 pm
@JK
“Three veterans on Kerry’s boat that day — Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry’s boat, said the group was lying.
They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group’s account “pure fabrication.”
Hoffmann said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry’s boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry’s”
Next
josef nix
March 7th, 2011
8:01 pm
SoCo
Scout
I watched it twice…it has its bias, but if the events of a couple of years ago showed nothing else, it showed how ghettoized Western Europe has become…my problem with this is the concept of “forced” assimilation without providing the apertures…
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
8:02 pm
They BOTH suck,
You’re welcome for my service. And never mind when I hurt U.S. troop morale by throwing away my medals and ribbons- at least that’s one of the 3 versions I’ve given of what I did with them.
And never mind when I lied and said I had personally knew of U.S. soldiers “raping and pillaging in a fashion reminiscent of ghengis khan”- john kerry. Please never mind that I made that crap up also.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:03 pm
@JK
I dont go around denouncing the service of others………… Guess you are good with it.
Once again
When did you serve, seeing that you seem to be so in tune about what Kerry did or didn’t do when he served?
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 7th, 2011
8:03 pm
Politically correct:
Have you noticed the Brinks Security Systems adverstisemnts that to the best of my recollection not one of the burglars are black ……….. or anything else. They are all seedy white men and the husbands of the house always cower in a bedroom corner with the kids while the wife makes the call instead of getting their 12 guage and blowing his head off.
George's Bushisms
March 7th, 2011
8:03 pm
If only Kerry could have been as brave as Dick or Saxby and stayed out of the war like a real man.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:03 pm
@JK
When did you serve and what branch?
Thanks
Have a great night
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 7th, 2011
8:05 pm
josef:
I hear you but:
1) I don’t see any bias.
2) It’s out of control there when police cannot go into any part of the city.
3) It’s here already and our politicians have turned a cowardly blind eye (most of them).
josef nix
March 7th, 2011
8:06 pm
Politically correct
And all you have to do to establish that it’s a fool is to give him/her a Southern accent…there was a time, though, when what you say would have been the case…I have noticed of late, though, some where the dufus/fall guy is a minority…usually there will be another of the same minority who is in the commercial and not being dufused…
George's Bushisms
March 7th, 2011
8:07 pm
All those black guys on Wall Street should be doing jail time. Why don’t we ever hear about them.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 7th, 2011
8:07 pm
They BOTH suck :
I hear you and you may thank me for my service but the only true sacrifieces are the 58,000+ on the Vietnam Wall and those still suffering from their mental and physical scars.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:08 pm
@JK
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp
Comments from those who actually were on a boat Kerry was on……….. Not in the same unit but another boat
Nice try……………… Kerry is a career politician like many in both parties, but no need to crap on him for something YOU have no proof……………. The US NAVY is who you need to cry to……. They issued several statements DEBUNKING the SBVs, but nice try
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
8:09 pm
They BOTH suck,
I knew you would fail the test. So 3 people are telling the truth- one or 2 of whom were given jobs in the Kerry campaign, and over 100 men are lying. There ya have it. 3 truth tellers and over 100 liars. I knew you couldn’t pass the common sense test.
And I suppose you still believe Kerry’s completely fabricated “Christmas in Cambodia” load of total BS.
The flat earth society, holocaust deniers,JFK conspiratists, and 3 Kerry defenders. Just because they all say crazy things doesn’t mean you have to believe em.
josef nix
March 7th, 2011
8:10 pm
Scout
I used the term bias in its true sense of meaning, a neutral term and not necessarily as a “negative.” This was produced by and for a Christian audience and as such had a bias toward the Muslim-Christian angle. The real problem. again in my opinion, is the inability to assimilate the minority. Here in the US we have a similiar (and note you and I agree on the meaning of similar…
) situation with the Christian latino immigrant population…
independent thinker
March 7th, 2011
8:11 pm
The neocons are pissed because we are not jumping in and taking over Libya to get control of its oil supplies- get Cheney to cherry pick some fake intel stating that madman has wmd he has been hiding.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:11 pm
@0311/0317 – 1811/1801
My dad is retired Army. He served three tours. He is doing much better today, but suffered and still does somewhat from PTSD
@@
March 7th, 2011
8:12 pm
SoCo:
Maybe gossip isn’t the right word.
I’ve been amongst a group of women where two or more will talk about one that’s across the room.
If you’re willing to confront another blogger directly, what’s the point in talking to someone else about him/her?
I hesitate to mention Hillbilly Deluxe, but have you ever seen HIM talk about other bloggers? NO!
It’s one of the reasons I hold him in high regard.
Sorry, Hillbilly.
George's Bushisms
March 7th, 2011
8:12 pm
It helps to have a daddy in the CIA.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 7th, 2011
8:13 pm
And finally ……….. I must go as the Gunny has late chow readly:
“”Harvard To Let ROTC Back On Campus For First Time In 41 Years”
The U.S. military is lowering itself in doing that.
Dear Harvard Students and Faculty from the past 40 years:
Greetings:
“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say ‘what should be the reward of such sacrifices?’ … If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”
Samuel Adams
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:14 pm
@JK
Never said I was a Kerry fan……… Like YOU, I wasn’t there
You keep talking about the SBVs as if they were independent. They were backed by right wing money……… That was noted years ago.
So for you to bring up those in Kerry’s campaign who were given jobs, but not mention who financed the SBVs just shows that you are disingenuous prick who probably never served but like to call out others based on their politics
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
8:14 pm
They BOTH suck,
And so there were only 3 men who served on Kerry’s boat? Is that what you’re saying? Oh and I suppose the fact that these boats all operated within yards of each other means nothing also. Being only a few yards away means they were all privy to what a fool John Kerry is.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 7th, 2011
8:15 pm
They BOTH suck :
To be honest, and with the type of unit I was in, I faired pretty well but I also know at little PSTD has caught up with me. So far I can handle it but the older I get the angrier I get.
Out on patrol for an hour or two …………………..
George's Bushisms
March 7th, 2011
8:15 pm
I sure am glad that my fellow like-minded friends ou there think that it is Obama’s job to apologize for my actions.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
March 7th, 2011
8:16 pm
If you’re willing to confront another blogger directly, what’s the point in talking to someone else about him/her?
I came in on the tail end of that conversation, and my point to Paul was that he was so intent on asking what we thought about something, that he didn’t bother to read the two posts where I answered his question. Then to come back and ask the same question a third time, saying he was waiting on a response??? He’s simply trying to be the center of attention. Whether you call it gossip or whatever, nothing I said to Paul or AmVet would not be said directly to Harry.
I see it no different than people talking about Jay when he’s not around. If I’m wrong, just let me know.
George's Bushisms
March 7th, 2011
8:18 pm
Drink and be merry.
– Samuel Adams
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
8:18 pm
These 100 men weren’t paid or backed by anyone. They simply signed a petition as to what the truth was concerning Kerry’s service. They had no financial interest unlike the guy or guys who went to work in Kerry’s campaign.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:19 pm
@0311/0317 – 1811/1801
He doesnt go any longer, but went to a therapy group at VA for a few years. He handles things much better but you can tell he can be prone to get angry at times.
He was a gunner twice and served in an infantry unit once.
George's Bushisms
March 7th, 2011
8:19 pm
Do people really talk about other people when they are not there to defend themselves!
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:21 pm
@JK
And as for who I believe, yes the ones that served on his boat and the Secretary of the Navy who issued a statement stating that all medals were earned over 100 guys backed by right wing money……………. YES
So if YOU still want to cry and rehash this issue, take it up with the Navy and the Pentagon
George's Bushisms
March 7th, 2011
8:22 pm
Government employees are such a drain on hard working tax payers. We should eliminate all of them and replace them with our fine military men and women.
Haji
March 7th, 2011
8:22 pm
I think we should invade Libya so we can p*ss off the Muslim world even more. And spend money we don’t have. These Islamic groups gain momentum because of foreign intervention already, not to mention the ‘accidental’ killing of their family members or children. Do you really think the US could help topple Gaddafi’s regime without “accidentally” killing civilians? No, and even just one civilian dead is enough to shift the opinion of large Muslim populations. Gadaffi will not last for long, it’s fairly obvious. The world is against him as well as the majority of Libyans. The US doesn’t need another war/occupation/operation/whatever.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:23 pm
@JK
No offense, but you like to play dumb, argue or are just dumb on this issue
Again, you are WRONG
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aOn3YB0FKHN8&refer=us_elections
Keep up the good fight!
March 7th, 2011
8:25 pm
Both suck… wikipedia has a pretty complete entry on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry_military_service_controversy
josef nix
March 7th, 2011
8:28 pm
Haji
There’s a great deal of sense in what you’re saying…it’s “their” problem and it’s up to “them” to work it out…as I said earlier, let’s not play policeman here and play ambulance driver instead…there’s a lot we can do to show who’s side we’re on and do it with the best of our traditions on show…
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:29 pm
@JK
O’Neill denied making thousands of dollars in contributions to GOP; FEC records contradict him
When FOX News Channel managing editor and chief Washington correspondent Brit Hume asked O’Neill to respond to “allegations” that he has made more than $14,000 in federal contributions to Republican candidates and causes since 1990, O’Neill responded by saying “that is not true. … Actually, about half of them were mine.” When Hume asked about “the other $7,000,” O’Neill claimed: “Those are actually funds, as nearly as I can tell, that were given my — by some — my law partner who has almost the same name, Edward J. O’Neill. I simply didn’t give them. I would have been happy to give them. I just didn’t.”
O’Neill’s claim that “Edward J. O’Neill,” not he, made the contributions, is contradicted by Federal Election Commission records, which clearly list the contributor as John O’Neill, not Edward O’Neill. Edward O’Neill made his own contributions, which are listed under his name.
It’s worth remembering that if Edward O’Neill actually made the contributions in his law partner’s name, it would be a violation of federal election law.
O’Neill lied about ties to Nixon White House
After Chris Matthews said to O’Neill, “You go back to the Nixon era, when [former President Richard] Nixon was looking for someone. [Chuck] Colson and those guys were looking for somebody to debunk the Kerry record, because all the records show they were scared to death of this guy. And you played that role,” O’Neill replied, “That’s just not true.”
O’Neill was lying.
Former Nixon special counsel Chuck Colson has said that Kerry was an “articulate” and “credible leader” of those veterans calling for an end to the Vietnam War and therefore “an immediate target of the Nixon administration.” As such, the Nixon administration found it necessary to “create a counterfoil” to Kerry. Colson recounted, “We found a vet named John O’Neill and formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had O’Neill meet the President, and we did everything we could do to boost his group.” Articles from the April 21 edition of the Houston Chronicle and the June 17, 2003, edition of The Boston Globe confirm close ties between O’Neill and the Nixon administration.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:29 pm
@JK
O’Neill lied about how many vets who served “with” Kerry contributed to Unfit for Command
On Crossfire, O’Neill claimed that there “are more than 60 people that served with John Kerry that contributed to this book.”
In fact, only one man who served on John Kerry’s boat, Stephen Gardner, is involved with Swift Boat Vets or Unfit for Command. While the group’s members are veterans of the Vietnam War and may have served at the same time as Kerry or even on boats near Kerry’s, only one man who served on John Kerry’s boat, Stephen Gardner, is involved with Swift Boat Vets or Unfit for Command. And Gardner was not present for the events that led to any of Kerry’s medals or any of Kerry’s three Purple Hearts.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:33 pm
@JK
Guess the leader of the SVBs: John Oneil lied as well
In the book, O’Neill argued that a Swift boat commander would have been “seriously disciplined or court-martialed” for crossing the Cambodian border. Critics point out the inconsistency between this description and O’Neill’s own claims documented in a conversation with President Nixon in 1971:
“ O’Neill: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.
Nixon : In a Swift boat?
O’Neill: Yes, sir.[70]
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:35 pm
@Keep up the good fight
Thanks for the link………. I shouldn’t have even debated/argued with that disingenuous prick, but was great to put up fact versus his hyperbole and right wing talking points
have a great night
Keep up the good fight!
March 7th, 2011
8:37 pm
Yep, difficult to argue when you have someone willing to create their own facts or to foist off disproven ones……..
Have a great night too Both Suck..
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
8:39 pm
They BOTH suck,
First of all not only did I serve but my dad is a retired vet and so did both my brothers-one is still an officer in the Army and has done 2 tours in Iraq and desert storm the first gulf war. That is why this man disgusts me so much.
Of course swift boat veterans- the ads, the site, etc was all funded by conservativs. Just like George Soros openly funds moveon.org and other left wing causes. So what? It doesn’t change the fact that 250 men who served on swift boats came out against the man. It doesn’t change the fact that a couple hundred men with no financial interest adamantly opposed him. If only 3 men who closely served with and around him openly support him then something is very, very wrong.
For Pete’s sake when I was watching this whole episode several years back they showed 3 separate tv shows where the man gave 3 different accounts of what he did with his medals. The man can’t even keep his story straight on what he did with his medals and you think he’s credible when he can’t even tell the truth about something as small as what happened to his medals? Good grief!
Dusty
March 7th, 2011
8:41 pm
Well, I am so satisfied with mealoaf, baked sweet potatoes, followed by apple crisp. It is hard to get uptight here are at the blog. But what good is a blog if you can’t get uptight? Righty tighty?
As to income tax, the rich should have the same rate as everybody else. Have we forgotten that stealing is dishonest and illegal? It is THEIR money. You & I did not make it. They did. If you take it by unfair taxation, you still steal. Thievery should not be legal.
Why is John Kerry the subject of lamentation today? He is an American politician (I don’t care for) but there is no reason to try and disgrace a man for no good reason. He is not running for office right now . Leave him alone . If you are perfect, then you can throw the first and last stone.
Freedom of speech still regins here. If you abhor another blogger, try to be subtle. You may make yourself sound worse than the one you dislike.
Well, see what meatloaf does for you? And; would someone tell getalife that I only drink Manichevitz at Christmas time ’cause that’s when we have fruitcake. Poor guy. I bet he has only a pet armadillo to play with. That’s not much fun.
Shhhh..I think HillBilly’s babies have hatched!!
josef nix
March 7th, 2011
8:41 pm
Time to call it a night…
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
8:42 pm
They BOTH and MYSELF all suck,
You and the other left wing ball sucker keep up the queer fight both think wikipedia is a credible source on this subject? That tells me everything I need to know about you 2 lying sacks of shi$.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:46 pm
@JK
How funny you laugh about the Cambodia incident, yet didnt mention that John Oneil who was one of the SVB leaders told the President Nixon to his face that he was in CAMBODIA on a Swift Boat……..
Guess your favorite blogs or pundits didnt tell you that one
hahahahahahah
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:49 pm
@JK
You make it too easy…………. Have a great night
In his book Unfit for Command, O’Neill excoriates Kerry for (among other things) falsely claiming that he had been sent to Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968: “Kerry was never ordered into Cambodia by anyone and would have been court-martialed had he gone there.” But thanks to Nixon’s secret Oval Office tape from the 16 June 1971 meeting, we know that O’Neill told the same lie about himself to the nation’s Commander-in-Chief, when he told Nixon: “I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border.”
Confronted with his inconsistency in August 2004, O’Neill’s lame excuse was precious: “I’ve never represented on the floor of the Senate, or told people 50 times like John Kerry did that I was in Cambodia.” True, O’Neill never had the opportunity to recite his lie — precisely the same lie he’s accusing Kerry of — on the floor of the Senate. Instead, O’Neill told his lie in the White House Oval Office, right to the face of the President of the United States.
George's Bushisms
March 7th, 2011
8:49 pm
You and the other left wing ball sucker keep up the queer fight both think wikipedia is a credible source on this subject? That tells me everything I need to know about you 2 lying sacks of shi$.
Actually, I think that post tells more about the poster than anyone else.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:51 pm
@JK………….. YOU LIE
WASHINGTON (AP) – The chief critic of John Kerry’s military record told President Nixon in 1971 that he had been in Cambodia in a swift boat during the Vietnam War – a claim at odds with his recent statements that he was not.
“I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border,” said John E. O’Neill in a conversation that was taped by the former president’s secret recording system. The tape is stored at the National Archives in College Park, Md.
In an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, O’Neill did not dispute what he said to Nixon, but insisted he was never actually in Cambodia.
Jackie
March 7th, 2011
8:53 pm
@John Kerry
Had a high school classmate that was a member of the Riverine Naval force and he said going into Cambodia was routine. He also said, many don’t realize that quite a few of those men who led the charge against John Kerry were not navy vets with at least one of them being a prisoner of war.
So, with the tremendous sacrifice those men endured riding up and down the Mekong in an aluminum boat, any medal given was truly deserved.
You stated that you were a vet yourself; how many bullets have eyes?
Dusty
March 7th, 2011
8:53 pm
JOHN KERRY, 8:42
Watch your mouth! There are ladies present.
You ,too, THEY BOTH SUCK. Much ado about nothing.
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
8:54 pm
They both and myself suck,
John Kerry’s own diaries and journals contradict him. Good grief-there is a whole book written about the man’s verified lies. But you go on there thinking that him and 3 men are telling the truth. You probably believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus as well.
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
8:55 pm
George Bushisms,
Mind your own bidness ma’am.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:56 pm
@JK
what was that about Cambodia? His unit was never even close, right? You better call SVB John Oneil
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
WASHINGTON (AP) – The chief critic of John Kerry’s military record told President Nixon in 1971 that he had been in Cambodia in a swift boat during the Vietnam War – a claim at odds with his recent statements that he was not.
“I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border,” said John E. O’Neill in a conversation that was taped by the former president’s secret recording system. The tape is stored at the National Archives in College Park, Md.
In an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, O’Neill did not dispute what he said to Nixon, but insisted he was never actually in Cambodia.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:57 pm
@Dusty
I will watch the language, but will post what I wish……………. even if you do not like it.
You are free to ignore it and post about whatever you wish…………
Jackie
March 7th, 2011
8:58 pm
@John Kerry
Ask any vet that was stationed in the III Corps in ‘Nam, especially those in the 1st Cav, 1st Inf Div, 101st Airborne, 173rd ABN Brigade and others who were stationed along the tri-border area, they will tell you that not only did the “stray” into Cambodia, they went to Laos also!
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
8:59 pm
@jackie
None of JKs favorite pundits or blogs ever told him that so it isn’t true……….
John Kerry
March 7th, 2011
9:01 pm
I’ll see you guys later. I scratched my elbow. Need to go collect another purple heart with that injury. If you need me I’ll be on my yacht in Martha’s vineyard.
Oh. Almost forgot. I gotta go to Rhode Island to pick it up since I started docking it there to avoid paying the taxes involved it docking it in Massachusetts. HAHAHAHAHAHAH!
I’m like any good liberal. I believe in the liberal creed that I share with AL Gore- Don’t do as I do. Do as I say.
Lil' Barry Bailout
March 7th, 2011
9:01 pm
Kamchak
Silly cons want us to continually piss of terrorists.
——————
Remember when keeping Gitmo open pissed off the terrorists? Man, those were the days. Everything could be blamed on our President Bush.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 7th, 2011
9:01 pm
Dusty
The eaglets aren’t due to hatch ’til about the end of the month. The eagles have gone to roost for the night.
They BOTH suck
March 7th, 2011
9:02 pm
@JK
You never even served in the Cub Scouts
Go read your fav blog or listen to your fav pundit and get your talking points for tomorrow
George's Bushisms
March 7th, 2011
9:02 pm
George Bushisms,
Mind your own bidness ma’am
It’s a public forum, missy foul mouth.
Keep up the good fight!
March 7th, 2011
9:04 pm
jk@8:42…You and the other left wing ball sucker keep up the queer fight
Queer fight….ahh when you are “duh winning” the fight, then bring out your homophobic ignorance.
Jackie
March 7th, 2011
9:05 pm
@John Kerry
There were others like the 4th ID, 25th ID, 11th Armored Calvary and 1st and 5th Special Forces.
It appears your reading was not in-depth enough for you to know what you are talking about.
http://www.173rdairborne.com/rvnunits.htm
Dusty
March 7th, 2011
9:06 pm
Once again, what is the reason for a big discussion of John Kerry? Is he running for office? Do you want to refight the Viet Nam War? Is he a friend of yours? Is he in the news now for any reason? Does he pertain in any way to the subject de jour?
Sure, you can post anything you wish here. The question remains, why bother to ‘cuss & discuss John Kerry? Seems pointless.
George's Bushisms
March 7th, 2011
9:06 pm
How do you fly this thing. I love these suits. Why do you call them jumpsuits.