Supreme Court rules – correctly, sadly – in favor of Westboro nuts
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that the First Amendment protects fundamentalist church members who mount attention-getting, anti-gay protests outside military funerals.
The court voted 8-1 in favor of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan. The decision upheld an appeals court ruling that threw out a $5 million judgment to the father of a dead Marine who sued church members after they picketed his son’s funeral.
Chief Justice John Roberts wrote the opinion for the court. Justice Samuel Alito dissented.
“What Westboro said, in the whole context of how and where it chose to say it, is entitled to ’special protection’ under the First Amendment,” Roberts wrote, “and that protection cannot be overcome by a jury finding that the picketing was outrageous.”
As despicable as those “church members” might be, I don’t know how the court could have ruled otherwise. Tolerating the rantings of hateful fools is part of the price we pay for free speech.
– Jay Bookman
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673 comments Add your comment
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
3:30 pm
“What are you wanting to tax?”
Property, mostly.
I just don’t get why churches are exempt from it in most states. And just like a homeowner, if you can’t afford to be there, you shouldn’t be there!
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:31 pm
Bosch 3:28 – at least I can, and do, read.
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:33 pm
Dave R.,
“And just like a homeowner, if you can’t afford to be there, you shouldn’t be there!”
You got that right.
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:35 pm
@@,
“We’re lucky to get 50 people on any given Sunday. If I had to guess, I’d say 1/3 of our attendees tithe.”
They are obviously no libertarians among your members…otherwise everyone would have to pay to attend the services.
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
3:35 pm
jm is probably just a product of Georgia schools.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:36 pm
I love Jay’s red herring analysis too. Because I repetitively assert that unions are a part of the problem, Jay responds that I have not proven it and they are not a part of the problem. Yet…. the research to back up his point that unions ARE NOT a part of the problem…. MIA.
GA schools are a wee bit different demographically (income, etc.) than the union state schools you compared GA too. I don’t have any econometric analysis to back my position up firmly. And neither does Jay.
I’d call it a draw on a factual basis, although I doubt Jay would concede such a point. Even though, intellectually, one knows tenure does not lead to better teaching results.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:37 pm
“Bosch 3:28 – at least I can, and do, read.”
Good for you, jm, too bad COMPREHENSION isn’t one of your strong suits.
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
3:38 pm
jm should actually call it a drawl on a southern basis since that would be more factual than the rest of his story.
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:39 pm
jm,
“Even though, intellectually, one knows tenure does not lead to better teaching results.”
Yeah…and inexperienced newbies just out of school are a heck of a lot cheaper than those with years of experience. So much better for the state budget.
@@
March 2nd, 2011
3:40 pm
Dave R.:
if you can’t afford to be there, you shouldn’t be there!
Well I’ll tell that to the people who seek out smaller churches as opposed to the HUGE churches that are preferred here in Clayton County. We should just close our doors since we can’t compete no matter how hard we try. Our little church over 100 years old has served many generations of the same families.
There’s a little black church (historical) up the road from me. They probably average 12 in attendance on Sundays. I’ll just tell ‘em they shouldn’t be available to their loyal parishioners.
I’ll tell ‘em Dave R. said so.
That oughta make ‘em feel worthwhile.
David Granger
March 2nd, 2011
3:41 pm
Jay, I’ve always thought that the best legal argument against the Westboro looneys was the “fighting words” doctrine. SCOTUS has held that speech which…by its very utterance…inflicts injury or tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace…can be prevented and punished. Well, it sure seems to me that gathering at the funeral of a soldier and jabbering homophobic filth at his family is sure intended to inflict injury. I honestly believe that if the families and the mourners had just physically attacked the Westboro protesters, there’s no jury in the country that would have convicted them.
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
3:43 pm
Doesn’t a black church have a higher cooling bill in this part of the country. I’d paint it white like most of them are painted. Besides that, white paint is cheaper. It puts less of a dent in the tithes.
Mick
March 2nd, 2011
3:44 pm
jm
The real problem is that our public schools take all students. That means that they are not cherry picked so many don’t speak english, have disabilities, come from broken homes, and probably the biggest deterrant is our entertainment culture which promotes fame and fortune over academics. This union and tenure crap is beat to death by the likes of you…
@@
March 2nd, 2011
3:44 pm
Cowboy:
Tithing isn’t mandatory. It helps our church, but we’re not there to help ourselves. We’re there to offer people comfort, fellowship, and a pathway to what they seek.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:46 pm
Jay’s rants are starting to remind me of Goya’s painting of Saturn devouring his son.
http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&biw=1711&bih=974&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=saturn+goya&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=
Let’s eat the future friends. Feed the teachers! Children for dinner!
Dan
March 2nd, 2011
3:46 pm
DAve R, don’t necessarily disagree, but for that matter what “non-profits” should be exempt? There is really no difference between a non-profit, church or regular business other than how they define themselves.
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:47 pm
@@,
“They probably average 12 in attendance on Sundays.”
“I’ll just tell ‘em they shouldn’t be available to their loyal parishioners.”
Tell them IHOP has a banquet room…and they can get pancakes with their worship…a twofer.
“That oughta make ‘em feel worthwhile.”
Tell them jewcowboy sent them…believe me…with a belly full of bacon and pancakes..they’ll feel worthwhile.
Dan
March 2nd, 2011
3:47 pm
Of course at the end of the day any tax on business is a tax on the people who patronize those businesses
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:48 pm
Mick 3:44 – the teachers union issue is a national issue. Not a GA issue. In GA, the issue is teacher quality, rigorous testing, teacher training, extending the school year, pre-k, and motivating parents to keep their kids studying after hours
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:49 pm
@@,
“Tithing isn’t mandatory. It helps our church, but we’re not there to help ourselves. We’re there to offer people comfort, fellowship, and a pathway to what they seek.”
To bad most people only think that way on Sunday inside a tax-exempt building.
Don't Forget
March 2nd, 2011
3:49 pm
I wonder if Alito made the same face when he heard the other 8 justices disagreed with him as he did during the 2010 state of the union speech. lol
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:50 pm
This is what jm’s rants remind me of:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thekathleenshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Word-vomit.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thekathleenshow.com/2010/10/31/did-i-just-say-that/word-vomit/&usg=__h7lYCUXq-Gh706rOBD7iI164-Ls=&h=424&w=640&sz=76&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=zftGoX2b3N8rHM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=172&ei=Ka1uTZH6GsKblgfU291f&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dword%2Bvomit%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1419%26bih%3D691%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=299&vpy=93&dur=46&hovh=183&hovw=276&tx=182&ty=113&oei=Ka1uTZH6GsKblgfU291f&page=1&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:50 pm
David Granger,
“SCOTUS has held that speech which…by its very utterance…inflicts injury or tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace…can be prevented and punished. ”
Very salient point.
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:52 pm
Bosch @ 3.50,
ps..may I also suggest: http://www.tinyurl.com
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:53 pm
thanks jewcowboy,
I just googled “word vomit” and that’s what came up — I didn’t realize how long it was until I posted it.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:54 pm
Jay’s silence is deafening….. which would make since given Carlson is hardly a captive of right wing opinion.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:55 pm
Bosch 3:50 – wow. that was intellectually stimulating….
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:57 pm
Bosch,
“I didn’t realize how long it was until I posted it.”
Appropriate though considering the conversation
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:57 pm
jm,
Well, whatever, you have weird definitions of “intellectually stimulation” — I just wish your posts were.
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
3:58 pm
You best be careful with your prodding of jm or else he’ll give you a 266-page off-topic slide show document to not explain the unimportance of an unrelated non-issue.
Don't Forget
March 2nd, 2011
3:59 pm
The only Christian member of the Pakistani parliament was gunned down today not far from his home after being dragged from his car. He was targeted for his stance against an anti-blasphemy law. I’d like to think there is a special place in hell for religious zealots who would murder innocent people and thereby place THEMSELVES in the role of God.
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
4:00 pm
From the NYT’s:
“Chief Justice Roberts suggested that the proper response to hurtful protests are general laws creating buffer zones around funerals and the like, rather than empowering of juries to punish unpopular speech.”
May I suggest every state enact a 3000 mile buffer zone?
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
4:00 pm
“You best be careful with your prodding of jm or else he’ll give you a 266-page off-topic slide show document to not explain the unimportance of an unrelated non-issue.”
Yeah, Huck, and then he’ll spend the next 8 hours copying and pasting excerpts from it too, and keep asking you over and over if you’ve read it.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
4:01 pm
Huckabee Finn 3:58 –
facts suck don’t they. I agree, let’s call facts “unimportant”, especially in relation to our $1.7 Trillion deficit, which is obviously a “non-issue”
Huck, you haven’t learned much in the intervening centuries
@@
March 2nd, 2011
4:02 pm
Cowboy:
To bad most people only think that way on Sunday inside a tax-exempt building.
Our mission efforts are 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
This past year, 2010, we were finally able to collect enough money to buy large livestock to complement our smaller gifts of chickens, ducks, goats and the like.
http://www.samaritanspurse.org/index.php/Giving/gift_catalog_2010/?pc=13831
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
4:04 pm
Huck, you haven’t learned much in the intervening centuries
I larned what trickle down wuz before I culd walk. I larned that it wuz not something worthy of praise like some folk would have you believe.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
4:05 pm
@@,
You guys should look into Heifer International too.
http://www.heifer.org/site/c.edJRKQNiFiG/b.183217/#
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
4:06 pm
“DAve R, don’t necessarily disagree, but for that matter what “non-profits” should be exempt? There is really no difference between a non-profit, church or regular business other than how they define themselves.”
Dan, the short answer is none should be exempt. I’m sorry, but I’m all about equality across every spectrum. I don’t believe there should be different tax rates. I don’t believe there should be subsidies for any business. I don’t believe there should be tax exemptions for anything.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
4:06 pm
Better
Off
Staying
Completely
High
Kind of like Charlie Sheen. The guy was better off when not ad-libbing utter nonsense.
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
4:07 pm
Bosch @ 4.05,
I read that at first as Hefner.org…both have lots of naked teats…but ooohhhh so different.
@@
March 2nd, 2011
4:07 pm
Bosch:
We donated to HI for years. We decided to go with Samaritan’s purse for a change. All the same efforts…all the same people in need.
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
4:08 pm
“Tell them IHOP has a banquet room…and they can get pancakes with their worship…a twofer.”
OK, now THAT’S funny!
Roberto
March 2nd, 2011
4:08 pm
I live in SE GA. I met some people from RI. I asked about their teachers being fired. Quote: “Unions. Non-Union. It doesn’t matter. You can’t make the kids learn. There is no parental involvement–if you can even find the parents.”
Dayum. Sounds like a Made-In-America problem!
Back to topic, a couple years ago the loons from Kansas were planning a trip to Camp Lejeune, NC. (For those who don’t know where/what that is, look it up please.) The commanding general of CL put an order out that no Marines better be caught giving them a hard time. Fair enough. But guess what? The word got out and grey-beard Marines from all over the country were going to be there to “greet” them. Ha ha ha! The loons from Kansas “postponed” their trip.
That’s the essence of the Marine Corps. Some whiny azz country wants to do some sabre-rattling? All our State Dept. has to do is make a phone call and say something of the effect of, “President Psycho. Look out on the horizon. See those ships? They’re full of US Marines. They’re tired, hungry, and their C.O. has been making life tough on them. Would you like for them to come ashore?” That usually does it. (Ghadafi is about to experience the same thing. But since he is more bizarre than Charles Manson, he probably won’t take the advice. Frankly, the Europeans should deal with it, but they won’t. We’ll be asked to do the majority of the dirty work The clock is ticking.)
@@
March 2nd, 2011
4:09 pm
Dave R.:
Look at it this way. The church is there to pick up the slack for government. We take care of those who slip thru the cracks.
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
4:10 pm
“Chief Justice Roberts suggested that the proper response to hurtful protests are general laws creating buffer zones around funerals and the like, rather than empowering of juries to punish unpopular speech.”
That is a remarkably thoughtful answer from the good Justice.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
4:11 pm
@@,
True enough.
jm,
I guarantee you, I am nothing like Charlie Sheen, but nice poem there — your elementary teacher will be so proud.
jewcowboy,
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
4:11 pm
“The church is there to pick up the slack for government. We take care of those who slip thru the cracks.”
No problem there. Still doesn’t rate a tax exemption from me.
@@
March 2nd, 2011
4:11 pm
Dave R.:
Or maybe you’d like to take care of them thru your taxes?
jm
March 2nd, 2011
4:12 pm
For readers out there (not Bosch), this is fascinating.
This Is Just the Start
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/opinion/02friedman.html?_r=1
About the Arab revolutions and what Friedman thinks some of the additional causes might be (correctly or not).
ga tech 92
March 2nd, 2011
4:13 pm
These folks can scream anything they want out in public. These people can spew anti-gay hate speech in public. They can harass the most personal of events, the honoring of the death of not only a human, but a loved one, and a service person. We wonder “why”. Our answer is “freedom of speech”. How then does the following headline “Students disciplined for Facebook posts about teacher” happen? How can these students be punished for doing much less with their ‘freedom of speech’?
How does this happen?
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
4:13 pm
“Or maybe you’d like to take care of them thru your taxes?”
Since I already do against all protests, your point is moot.
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
4:14 pm
Dave R.,
“I don’t believe there should be tax exemptions for anything.”
Personally I would not go that far. If an organization is demonstrably giving back to the community in a positive way, then there should be exemptions on income taxes. To pit something like the YMCA against LA Fitness, basically would ignore all the benefit YMCA’s do for lower income families. If a church has a program that demonstrably gives back to all member of the community, then its income should be tax exempt.
But there should also be a limit…when the CEO’s of these non-profits are driving Rolls Royce’s given to them out of the organizations coffers (ie Bishop Eddie Long)…that is not really keeping in the spirit of why it has non-profit status.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
4:14 pm
jm,
I’ve already read it — you aren’t the only person here that reads, I assure you.
ga tech 92
March 2nd, 2011
4:16 pm
These folks can scream anything they want out in public. These people can spew anti-gay hate speech in public. They can harass the most personal of events, the honoring of the death of not only a human, but a loved one, and a service person. We wonder “why”. Our answer is “freedom of speech”. How then does the following headline “Students disciplined for Facebook posts about teacher” happen? How can these students be punished for doing much less with their ‘freedom of speech’?
How does this happen?
getalife
March 2nd, 2011
4:17 pm
Charlie Sheen is living the life of a martian rock star.
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
4:17 pm
Them Samaritans spent over 24 million dollars in 2009 on Christian education. Is that where they teach the little non-Christians all about the books of Genesis and Revelations and everything in betwixt.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
4:18 pm
Bosch 4:14 – congratulations. did you use Google Translator to convert it from English to Nonsense for you? Given that’s the language you speak, i figure that’s the only one you read as well….
jm
March 2nd, 2011
4:19 pm
getalife 4:17 – or something very similar. the crack rock done miswired his brain fo sho
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
4:21 pm
Because ga tech 92, those students posted libelous information with the intent (allegedly) or harming an individual and were suspended. They weren’t arrested or thrown in jail, they were punished for their actions — freedom of speech is not without consequence.
This case was due to the Westboro folks getting sued — if the protestors had said anything about the soldier himself — like so and so was a fag – that would be libelous and different. These two cases aren’t remotely the same.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
4:22 pm
no jm, I didn’t have to have it translated — I understood it quite well thanks. I read the NYTimes opinion page every day.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
4:22 pm
Oh good. We’re not early enough in the election cycle to get more than a barbershop visit….
Mitt Romney stopped by Tommy Thomas’s barber shop in Atlanta for a trim.
He came to the right place — Thomas has clipped hair for many of Georgia’s top politicians. “Both senators, the governor, you name them, they all come through the barber shop,” Thomas told POLITICO after cutting Romney’s hair.
Thomas charges $16 for a trim, but he offered to give Romney a cut for free — but the well-coiffed former governor refused and gave Thomas a $20 bill, telling him to keep the change.
http://www.politico.com/2012-election/
Don’t forget teachers, Children on the menu tonight!
Cheers, folks, I’m out.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 2nd, 2011
4:26 pm
I talked to Charlie’s dad Martin at the premier of the movie Gettysburg. Disagree with his politics but he was very pleasant to talk with.
Charlie is going to self-destruct. I think he has PTSD from the movie “Platoon”.
getalife
March 2nd, 2011
4:31 pm
Charlie has the choice to get in bed with a porn star every night.
It’s a free country if he chooses that life style.
Party on Charlie.
Dan
March 2nd, 2011
4:32 pm
Dave R don’t disagree, but the fact still remains businesses simply pass along the tax,
Jewcowboy, you seem more inclined to believe the YMCA (ironically a christian organization) than a church as far as them giving back seems that most churches give back at least as much as a YMCA? (and I do not actively practice) It really comes to all people have a different perception as to what is “giving back”, you could make an argument Wal-mart gives far more to a community than a YMCA, providing cheap goods to many many people as a matter of fact i suspect their clientele is predominantly low income, hiring people to say hello when you walk in, is essentially charity.
At the end of the day the user pays the taxes anyway, any political means of taxing or not taxing business or organizations is just a smoke screen to deflect attention from the fact the pols are taxing the everyday person
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
4:35 pm
“you could make an argument Wal-mart gives far more to a community than a YMCA”
only to people who ride the short bus.
ga tech 92
March 2nd, 2011
4:35 pm
GroupA’s decision making isn’t respected enough to allow them to choose to drink or vote..teens who most likely were being stupid and messing and probably didn’t think about what they were doing for more than 4 seconds before they did it…typical stupid kids…which is why they aren’t trusted to drink or vote yet…still……their words are punished.
GroupB is a group of aware and awake adults who society views as ‘mature’ enough to drink for example….this group WITH ADVANCED PLANNING AND INTENT went about disparaging our military, gays, and a family’s funeral…with NO consequence.
What GroupB did was much more damaging than GroupA and in fact GroupA cannot even be punished as adults, because they are under the bubble of youth………..yet….irony…GroupB (who should know better) is off the hook and GroupA (who is stupid and young) is punished.
Might not be the perfect comparison; however, there are a lot of similarities.
@@
March 2nd, 2011
4:36 pm
Dave R.:
No sooner had I hit “submit” than I realized you’re right.
Since I already do against all protests, your point is moot.
I’m not in total disagreement with you. Just want you to know that not all churches can afford what you demand. We can either pay taxes or continue to help those who need it. We (my church) won’t be able to do both.
Our members pay THEIR taxes (payroll/sales). Our minister and choir director have taxes deducted.
My husband is finance chairman (unpaid). He’s responsible to sending out letters to our members with their annual giving totals. All but five of our members tell him not to bother. I can only assume they don’t claim their giving when filing their taxes.
Like us, I’m guessing most just take the standard. No itemizing.
Don’t know how much more you can expect from us, Dave.
I predict it will happen eventually…then you can celebrate.
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
4:40 pm
“Just want you to know that not all churches can afford what you demand.”
Ahhhh, would that I could. Although I am perfectly suited towards being a benevolent dictator
, alas, I am not. Therefore, I cannot “demand” anything.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
4:41 pm
ga tech 92
Westboro Baptist was sued by the father of one of the soldiers whose funeral they protested — I’m not sure, but I would think that cost them a pretty penny to defend themselves all the way to the Supreme Court. So, it had their consequences — plus another consequence is that every person outside their church thinks they are loons and I would hope that their community has isolated them and will continue to do so until they no longer exist.
“What GroupB did was much more damaging than GroupA”
Actually in terms of emotional distress, not really — tell that to the teacher they posted those remarks about. If anything you could argue that they did MORE damage than the Westboro folks — everyone knows these people are loons, and yes, they do inflict emotional damage, but they have support (Patriot Guards, community, etc.) this teacher has no one to back him up and now he has people who will question his integrity for absolutely no reason at all except for the fact that some spoiled brat kids got mad at him.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 2nd, 2011
4:45 pm
Headline (AJC) : “Students disciplined for Facebook posts about teacher”
“William Lambert, Jr., the father of one of the suspended students, told myfoxatlanta.com that while he did not condone the youth’s actions they should not be subjected to school discipline for posting things online at home “because it is a privacy issue.”
I agree and when one of these types of cases make it to the SCOTUS I believe they will too.
It’s a privacy issue. The teacher can sue if they want but what happens outside of school has nothing to do with school. What if an adult had “overheard” the students saying the same thing at the mall? It’s protected speech.
http://www.ajc.com/news/students-disciplined-for-facebook-858326.html
ga tech 92
March 2nd, 2011
4:46 pm
I would suggest that *1-2* stupid teenagers “calling an adult a name without thinking it through” is much less harmful than…
*MANY* adults insulting ALL of our military, the privacy of a funeral for 10s of people, and getting away with it so that they can do it again.
We can agree to disagree.
josef nix
March 2nd, 2011
4:46 pm
“Tolerating the rantings of hateful fools is part of the price we pay for free speech”
As last night’s thread amply illistrates…oh, yeah, and the most hateful ones came from the left side of the racist, bigoted side of the aisle…maybe the Bruin will give us a new thread than this one. What else could the Supreme Court decide? The sad part is that it had to go there…
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
4:47 pm
““calling an adult a name ”
I think calling a teacher a rapist and pedophile is beyond simply “calling a name” — it the education world that could cost a teacher his job.
Don't Forget
March 2nd, 2011
4:48 pm
jm,
thanks for the friedman article. He isn’t always right but he’s usually interesting and insightful and picks up on angles that others miss. I heard some commentators say that for 30 years the Iranian theocracy model was the hope of arab youth. Time has exposed the Iranian theocracy and the idea of arab democracy has replaced it. These are dangerous times but I think there is justification for a little hope as well.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 2nd, 2011
4:49 pm
This is a country without free speech. It’s the same way in Canada.
Thankgoodness for the SCOUTS ruling today:
PARIS — Paris prosecutors on Wednesday ordered John Galliano to stand trial over alleged racial insults — a development welcomed by the famous fashion designer’s attorney, who said his client has been the victim of a “veritable lynching” in the court of public opinion.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
4:50 pm
gatech 92 —
I’m not actually disagreeing with you, on the issue, I’m disagreeing that they two cases are the same — except that in both cases their free speech wasn’t free — both had their consequences given to them. The church was sued and the students were suspended.
@@
March 2nd, 2011
4:50 pm
Dave R.:
Here ‘ya go. If you’re serious about it, the Freedom From Religion Foundation has advice.
What you can do
Amassing national information on the extent of property tax exemption by religious denominations is difficult. You could start with your town or municipality. Your city tax assessor’s office should have records which show which properties in your area are exempt from property taxes. While your local government probably does not tabulate those figures, the basic information is open to the public. It is a matter of distinguishing churches from other secular and civic institutions/groups which are property-tax exempt. Once you have a general estimate, share the results with FFRF and by a letter to your local newspaper, calling attention to the amount of religious subsidy local taxpayers are required to make. Because churches pay nothing, you pay more.
Looking for YOUR fair share?
Go for it!
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 2nd, 2011
4:52 pm
josef:
Been waiting for you.
Warsaw Ghetto Uprising
NEVER AGAIN !
An internal SS daily report written on May 16, 1943, stated:
“180 Jews, bandits and sub-humans, were destroyed. The former Jewish quarter of Warsaw is no longer in existence. The large-scale action was terminated at 20:15 hours by blowing up the Warsaw Synagogue. (…) Total number of Jews dealt with 56,065, including both Jews caught and Jews whose extermination can be proved. (…) Apart from 8 buildings (police barracks, hospital, and accommodations for housing working-parties) the former Ghetto is completely destroyed. Only the dividing walls are left standing where no explosions were carried out.”
Note: The German SS referred to people as “sub-humans” which in reality is what they were themselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising
Doggone/GA
March 2nd, 2011
4:52 pm
“I’m not sure, but I would think that cost them a pretty penny to defend themselves all the way to the Supreme Court”
Probably not much. They have a family business: lawyering…and the case was argued by one of Phelp’s daughters.
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
4:55 pm
As last night’s thread amply illistrates…oh, yeah, and the most hateful ones came from the left side of the racist, bigoted side of the aisle
Is that when yore looking at the aisle frum the north end or frum the south end.
md
March 2nd, 2011
4:56 pm
Whatever happened to “sticks and stones may break your bones but names can never hurt you”.
If we are going to start punishing for name calling, we will have to lock up a majority of the student population…………and half the adults.
Don't Forget
March 2nd, 2011
4:57 pm
getalife
March 2nd, 2011
4:17 pm
Charlie Sheen is living the life of a martian rock star.
OMG, Sheen is Ziggy Stardust???? lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXq5VvYAI1Q&feature=related
Tychus Findlay
March 2nd, 2011
4:57 pm
It would be very easy for someone to shoot every last member of Westboro and you’d STILL be hard pressed to find a jury that would convict.
You can’t criminalize bad taste, but you can deter it.
@@
March 2nd, 2011
4:57 pm
Probably not much. They have a family business: lawyering…and the case was argued by one of Phelp’s daughters.
Which is why I never understood why the ACLU represented them. They’re lawyers…they could’ve defended themselves.
josef nix
March 2nd, 2011
4:57 pm
Scout
Doubtlessly in reference to downstairs…I’m steering clear of it since I’m in a relatively good mood and see no point in beating my head against THAT brick wall…
josef nix
March 2nd, 2011
4:59 pm
Huckabee
Do you really want to go there?
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
5:00 pm
Ifin they wuz to tax church property round about these here parts, theyd likely lose money cuz that wuld mean theyd have to double the number of bills that they wuld have to pay someone to git done and mailed out onced evry year.
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
5:01 pm
Do you really want to go there?
You did neglect to specify so whuts a fella to due.
@@
March 2nd, 2011
5:01 pm
Adventures:
I know you’re trying really hard, but that schtick is best left to Redneck Convert.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
March 2nd, 2011
5:03 pm
@@ — you do realize attorneys have specialties? Have you ever seen a proctologist or brain surgeon for brain issues? They are both doctors with medical degrees but, with the except of some posters who obviously have their heads where a proctologist would look, I would recommend most avoid the proctologist for brain matters.
Adam
March 2nd, 2011
5:03 pm
100% agree with Dave R’s 12:51. A well written and well thought out point of view.
We can’t restrict speech like that. And yes it really sucks and surely there’s a legal way to deal with the protesters regarding the rights of those who are mourning. Government can’t restrict their speech but a private funeral ought to be considered a private event with a certain area that event takes place where no one can just say whatever they want or picket.
AmVet
March 2nd, 2011
5:04 pm
Dan, I don’t pay taxes either. I just pass them on. (eye roll)
josef nix
March 2nd, 2011
5:05 pm
Adventures…
Why did I need to specify? What specifics would you like?
@@
And he’s no better at it than Redneck…
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
5:06 pm
@@,
I hope old Red dont take it none too personal like yall done did. After all I wuz just making a point or three. Nuthin else.
@@
March 2nd, 2011
5:06 pm
Interesting.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc.
What is the Foundation’s purpose?
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc., is an educational group working for the separation of state and church. Its purposes, as stated in its bylaws, are to promote the constitutional principle of separation of state and church, and to educate the public on matters relating to nontheism.
Incorporated in 1978 in Wisconsin, the Foundation is a national membership association of freethinkers: atheists, agnostics and skeptics of any pedigree. The Foundation is a non-profit, tax-exempt organization under Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3). All dues and contributions are deductible for income tax purposes.
schnirt
Doggone/GA
March 2nd, 2011
5:07 pm
Here’s some details of this case, per a report on NPR today: the Westboro “church” is almost entirely made up of the Phelp’s family. They claim they take no donations from anyone. They were 1000 feet away from the actual funeral, though they were only about 30 feet away from the drive-up entrance to the church. The Father who filed the court case did not even know they were there until he saw a news report about them after he got home.
md
March 2nd, 2011
5:07 pm
“I’m steering clear of it since I’m in a relatively good mood and see no point in beating my head against THAT brick wall…”
Yeh….the wall was mentioned……….
Dusty
March 2nd, 2011
5:07 pm
Well, I suggest any news of the Westboro Baptist church be omitted. They do not represent any form of Christianity no matter their name. They show no form of the spirit of freedom & fairness in our country.
I suggest that Bookman post a subject on the worldwide good that real churches do. He might also show some appreciation for our military who die far from home.. That might show the true journalistic spirit. Fairness for all sides. Not the scum stirring subjects of the day that bring joy to the “downers” of our country. Blogs may thrive on it but the country does not.
md
March 2nd, 2011
5:08 pm
“Dan, I don’t pay taxes either. I just pass them on. (eye roll)”
In actuality, you pay for both……………
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
5:09 pm
Why did I need to specify?
Cuz when I looks North and then to the left I sees whut is West of me and when I looks South and to the left I sees whut is East of me and whut I sees to the East aint likely to look like whut I sees to the West ifin you knows whut I means.