Supreme Court rules – correctly, sadly – in favor of Westboro nuts
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that the First Amendment protects fundamentalist church members who mount attention-getting, anti-gay protests outside military funerals.
The court voted 8-1 in favor of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan. The decision upheld an appeals court ruling that threw out a $5 million judgment to the father of a dead Marine who sued church members after they picketed his son’s funeral.
Chief Justice John Roberts wrote the opinion for the court. Justice Samuel Alito dissented.
“What Westboro said, in the whole context of how and where it chose to say it, is entitled to ’special protection’ under the First Amendment,” Roberts wrote, “and that protection cannot be overcome by a jury finding that the picketing was outrageous.”
As despicable as those “church members” might be, I don’t know how the court could have ruled otherwise. Tolerating the rantings of hateful fools is part of the price we pay for free speech.
– Jay Bookman
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673 comments Add your comment
9 old men&women
March 2nd, 2011
1:36 pm
“As despicable as those “church members” might be, I don’t know how the court could have ruled otherwise”
Me neither Jay. What I find interesting is the vote, 8-1, with a conservative justice dissenting. Tells me the decision was based much more on the law than on ideology.
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
1:37 pm
” thought they were limiting the central government, leaving the sovereign states to establish their own limits.”
Agreed, but only to a certain point. I think the “umbrella” of basic rights were meant to be cascaded to the various states as a condition of signing on to the whole plan. I think it would be disastrous to have a hodge-podge of “what constitutes free speech?” conditions from state to state. But we can agree to disagree on this point.
Bob
March 2nd, 2011
1:40 pm
I hardly ever agree with you Jay but I do on this. You’re right. It is sad though.
@@
March 2nd, 2011
1:47 pm
This is getting hairy.
(Reuters) – Muammar Gaddafi launched a land and air offensive to retake territory in Libya’s east at dawn on Wednesday, sparking a rebel call for foreign air strikes on African mercenaries they said were helping him stay in power.
The veteran ruler twinned the attack with a fiery propaganda broadside against the rebels, playing on both nationalist opinion and Western jitters by saying much blood would be shed in “another Vietnam” if foreign powers intervened in the crisis.
“We will enter a bloody war and thousands and thousands of Libyans will die if the United States enters or NATO enters,” Gaddafi told Tripoli supporters at a gathering televised live.
Just how far is the U.S. willing to go.
Again with the “nothing’s off the table?”
@@
March 2nd, 2011
1:49 pm
Oops!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/02/us-libya-protests-idUSTRE71G0A620110302?pageNumber=1
Midori
March 2nd, 2011
1:50 pm
As despicable as those “church members” might be, I don’t know how the court could have ruled otherwise. Tolerating the rantings of hateful fools is part of the price we pay for free speech.
just about says it all………….
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
1:51 pm
Wow, Fox News suspended Newt while he sorts out his presedential ambitions quoting a “conflict of interest” — wonders never cease.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
1:52 pm
Funny how everyone here can agree on this freedom of speech issue — but heaven forbid a Muslim build a church in their neighborhood.
Joe the Plutocrat (and sometimes Zen warbler)
March 2nd, 2011
1:53 pm
here’s a more rational approach; why don’t we (next of kin of KIA soldiers, homosexuals, Socialists, Muslims, Republicans, Democrats, non-Westboro Christians, Wiccans, pagans, Buddhists, and the rest) simply ignore these losers? so they have a website? BFD. this isn’t some epic “give me liberty or give me death” moment – if you read my earlier screed, it’s simple, lame, “Constitutional” theatre and nothing more. OR, if you think homosexuality is an abomination, and you think American G.I.s and Heath Ledger died by god’s hand, in punishment for the immoral direction of U.S. culture, well then JOIN THE WESTBORO BAPTISTS! those are the choices. the very notion that a cabal of mentally ill dipsh*ts would seek the succor and protection of the very nation they claim their god lothes is the proverbial riddle wrapped in an enigma, surrounded by a brain teaser. anyone ever see “The Untouchables”? Al Capone (DeNiro) dismisses Elliott Ness (Costner) as; “…nothing but a lotta talk and a badge!” that’s all Westboro is; “a lotta talk and a First Amendment.”
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
1:56 pm
Joe,
That’s just way too simple.
AmVet
March 2nd, 2011
2:05 pm
As repulsive as Phelps and his sleazeballs are, I believe the Supreme Court acted properly.
And I also agree with HD. Though I have never been in a jail house in my life (except to bail out a drunken buddy once) I would likely find out what the inside looks like if those dipsticks ever showed up at one of my family member’s funerals.
But I guarandamntee you, at least a couple of them would have broken noses, black eyes, etc…
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 2nd, 2011
2:06 pm
Southern Comfort:
I hear you.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 2nd, 2011
2:07 pm
EXAMPLES OF HATE SPEECH:
“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
“Don’t you think we’re not keeping score, brother?”
“Bring it on”
“Get ready for hand-to-hand combat with your fellow Americans”
“I want all Americans to get in each others’ faces!”
“You bring a knife to a fight pal, we’ll bring a gun”
“Republicans are our enemies”
“Hit back twice as hard.”
“We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick. “
Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
“It’s time to fight for it.”
Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
“I’m itching for a fight.”
“They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back”
Barak Obama
Vcatron
March 2nd, 2011
2:09 pm
Without freedom of speach we would not be the USA we are now. I intensly dislike Westbouros’s tatics. There are still civil means against them. Small minded people do cruel things and have no stomach for the real truth.
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
2:10 pm
AmVet, what’s that saying, “If you’re going to pull the tail of a tiger, you’d better have a plan to deal with his teeth?”
Those Westboro people ever show their faces anywhere near a funeral of a relative of mine – Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
2:10 pm
SoCo,
Can I borrow your head in hand graphic for Scout’s 2:07?
John Birch
March 2nd, 2011
2:11 pm
I’m still waiting for black people to rise up in protst against the Southern Baptists with their pro-slavery history.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 2nd, 2011
2:11 pm
“In light of the repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy against openly gay servicemembers, some elite colleges and universities that have long banned ROTC programs on campus have begun considering changes in their policies.
But some military advocacy groups say change is not happening fast enough, and these schools continue to find more excuses to keep ROTC off campus.
Now there is a growing movement to enforce an existing law that prohibits giving federal funds to such institutions.”
You mean it hasn’t been enforced?
Then what’s the purpose of a law?
Disgusting.
AmVet
March 2nd, 2011
2:12 pm
As is generally the case 03, you are incorrect.
The key aspect of you intentional misinformation is disregard for what the law says and how it defines hate speech…
stands for decibels
March 2nd, 2011
2:13 pm
Can I borrow your head in hand graphic for Scout’s 2:07?
perhaps this will do.
Don't Forget
March 2nd, 2011
2:14 pm
Ignore them, ie give them more rope, maybe they’ll go too far and “hang themselves”
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
2:16 pm
yes stands, thanks — that worked well.
AmVet
March 2nd, 2011
2:16 pm
Dave, to me, it would be worth going to jail for the first time in my life, just to unleash a hellacious can of whoopass on those people.
It would look something like this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXG4pdPj4w
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
March 2nd, 2011
2:17 pm
VATICAN CITY – “Pope Benedict XVI has made a sweeping exoneration of the Jewish people for the death of Jesus Christ, tackling one of the most controversial issues in Christianity in a new book.
In “Jesus of Nazareth-Part II” excerpts released Wednesday, Benedict explains biblically and theologically why there is no basis in Scripture for the argument that the Jewish people as a whole were responsible for Jesus’ death.”
Well that’s brilliant. Then who shouted for him to be crucified?
The truth of the matters is we are ALL responsible as we are ALL sinners.
ncgreybr
March 2nd, 2011
2:18 pm
As much as I disagree with the court, It is a correct ruling. BUT it is just a matter of time before these crazies picket the wrong funeral and some grieving, slightly off the wall relative comes back with a Uzi and takes a dozen of them out. Then, of course, it won’t be their stupidity that got them killed, it was God Who called them home.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
2:21 pm
People all over the world hate Americans. There are days when I think: well, let them rot in their own filth then….
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/02/frankfurt-airport-shooting
Being the world’s policeman sometimes sucks…. and is not helping our federal deficit.
AmVet
March 2nd, 2011
2:22 pm
Thanks for the link SoCO the Man.
Hang tough, my USAF brothers and sisters…
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
2:24 pm
Scout,
You do realize that Bush said many of the same things, right?
atllaw191
March 2nd, 2011
2:26 pm
Of course, free speech is upheld (despite the fact they are the SCUM OF THE EARTH). However, the GOVERNMENT needs to take away their “tax exempt” status because they are not a CHURCH but A CULT, and I don’t think cults (by their very definition) should be tax-exempt. They obviously have too much money to go and “Promote their hatred of anyone/anything that isn’t them”…
Say What?
March 2nd, 2011
2:26 pm
SO… let me get this straight. In 2011 USA, it is perfectly legal to go to a strangers funeral, scream, call him a murderer and disrupt a private family affair, but it is illegal for a high school student to post to a comment about a teacher to their private friends on their private facebook account….
Makes me wonder how long this country is going to survive and God help my kids!
The Emperor's New Clothes
March 2nd, 2011
2:29 pm
Meanwhile, over in France, that fashion designer was arrested and is facing prison for stating his opinion that he likes Hitler. Thank God for our First Amendment rights.
Jeri Spinger
March 2nd, 2011
2:35 pm
The most disturbing thing about this ruling is that it demonstrates why Alito should have been a
law-school drop-out. What idiot nominated him to the Supreme Court? Oh, wait . . . .
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
2:37 pm
There is a very simple response to people like this…every time they turn up…sue them for defamation of character. Keep them and their finances so tied up in court cases they will have neither the time nor financial resources to do anything but meet with lawyers.
As with all rights, there come responsibilities. And the responsibility in freedom of speech is your speech cannot be libelous. Carrying signs that say: “God hates f@gs” at a heterosexual service members funeral implies the deceased was something they were not…which is libelous and is a defamation of their character.
Keep suing their butts…
Doggone/GA
March 2nd, 2011
2:40 pm
“However, the GOVERNMENT needs to take away their “tax exempt” status because they are not a CHURCH but A CULT, and I don’t think cults (by their very definition) should be tax-exempt”
that’s a slippery slope you don’t EVEN want to start on. ALL religions are cults…except the one “I” belong to.
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
2:41 pm
“Carrying signs that say: “God hates f@gs” at a heterosexual service members funeral implies the deceased was something they were not…which is libelous and is a defamation of their character.”
Except the person being defamed is now deceased, and harm no longer applies. Sorry, jewcowboy.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
2:41 pm
“but it is illegal for a high school student to post to a comment about a teacher to their private friends on their private facebook account…. ”
Well, the kids weren’t arrested, so no, it’s not illegal, but what they posted was libelous, so hopefully they’ll get their asses sued until Sunday — same thing that’s happened to the Westboro folks.
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
2:41 pm
“Then, of course, it won’t be their stupidity that got them killed, it was God Who called them home.”
I’m reminded of a joke:
“Sam was in dire trouble. His business had gone bust and he was in serious financial trouble. He was so desperate he decided to pray for help.
He began, ‘God, please help me. I’ve lost my business and if I don’t get some money, I’m going to lose my house as well. Please let me win the lottery.’ Lottery night came and Sam didn’t win.
Again Sam prays, ‘God, please let me win the lottery! I’ve lost my business, my house and I’m going to lose my car as well.’ Lotto night comes and Sam still has no luck.
Once again, he prays, ‘My God, why have you forsaken me?? I’ve lost my business, my house, and my car. My wife and children are starving. I don’t often ask you for help and I have always been a good servant to you. PLEASE just let me win the lottery this one time so I can get my life back in order.’
Suddenly there is a blinding flash of light as the heavens open. Sam is confronted by the voice of God Himself: ‘Sam,’ says God, ‘meet Me halfway on this. Buy a bloody ticket.’ “
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
2:43 pm
All churches should have their tax exempt status removed. I’ve never made the connection between the “freedom of religion” bunch and Constitutionally being unable to tax churches.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
2:46 pm
“All churches should have their tax exempt status removed”
I agree. Never quite understood that either.
Mick
March 2nd, 2011
2:46 pm
dave r@2:43
Yeah man, that might go a long way to help with our deficit….
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
2:48 pm
Dave R.,
“Except the person being defamed is now deceased, and harm no longer applies.”
It doesn’t matter…they and their lawyers would still have to respond to every lawsuit filed. If every lawsuit was filed by a different person, these would not be “nuisance” lawsuits. Death by a thousand cuts…
Additionally, the municipalities that they protest in can send them a bill for any security services required, such as police. Make it so financially painful for them, they simply cannot afford the time or financial resources to continue.
Doggone/GA
March 2nd, 2011
2:52 pm
“All churches should have their tax exempt status removed”
I agree
jms
March 2nd, 2011
2:53 pm
The losers are the poor families trying to bury their loved ones in peace. I feel for them.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
2:55 pm
“All churches should have their tax exempt status removed”
???? Go figure. this is nuts. I guess we should remove all college’s tax exempt status also????
This makes no sense….
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
2:55 pm
You know what’s good? Cheerios. They are good.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
2:58 pm
” I guess we should remove all college’s tax exempt status also????”
If they are for-profit, then yes. Non-profit, no.
Mick
March 2nd, 2011
2:58 pm
bosch
I’ll go with raisin bran and a banana sliced up and added..that’s good..
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
2:59 pm
Mick,
Raisins are an abomination — to me, they are proof that God is angry at us — but the banana part — right on brother.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:00 pm
You know what else is good? Milk. That’s REALLY good.
Hillbilly Deluxe
March 2nd, 2011
3:01 pm
If somebody whipped these people’s asses, as I previousoly alluded to, it’s true they could sue. I can only speak for my community but were I a gambling man, I’d bet no jury here would convict/rule against the person who did the whipping. Jury nullification is a real concept. I know if I were a member of the jury, they’d be home in time for supper.
Sam
March 2nd, 2011
3:02 pm
Popular speech doesn’t need constitutional protection. It is speech like Westboro’s for whom the First Amendment was written.
Mick
March 2nd, 2011
3:02 pm
bosch
What about frosted flakes, they’re greattttttttttt
Ryan
March 2nd, 2011
3:02 pm
I am surprised that there was 1 dissension. This was a pretty cut an dry case.
What I find interesting is that there are so many people who disagree with what the Church is doing. There is not much difference between what they are doing and what Billy Graham, or Jimmy Swaggert, or Pat Robertson and their ilk do every day. But I do not see many people wanting to “open a can of whoop ass” on them. They are the same. The only difference is the delivery. Pat Robertson can go on TV in front of MILLIONS and say that the Haiti earthquake was because they made a pact with the devil, and Jerry Falwell can say that 9/11was the fault of the ACLU and the gays and lesbians in front of millions of people. And that is OK?? How is that different from blaming dead soldiers on the gays and lesbians? Preaching hate to millions on TV is not as bad as preaching hate at a funeral, in front of maybe a few hundred people???
The difference between the Phelps family and Robertson/Swaggert/Falwell/(insert your preachers name here) is
1)the way they say it.
2) The Phelps family is not bilking you of your money.
Westboro Baptist Church is the only church I have ever heard of or seen who teach ALL of what is in that hate filled book called the Bible. They don’t cherry pick or sugar coat it the way most other religious figures do. The reason for this is that they actually believe the crap that they read and will not spin it so that you will keep giving them your money.
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:03 pm
OMG, feel good story of the day!
http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=14167428&hpt=C2
Curiouser
March 2nd, 2011
3:04 pm
Why is it that we selectively titled the news story and mentioned in this post “anti-gay”? With this only being part of the rhetoric, why pick that part? Out of all the rhetoric these people spew, did we just pick the sexy headline?
AmVet
March 2nd, 2011
3:04 pm
If raisins are proof that God is angry with us, prunes must be proof that the devil also deals in fruit…
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:04 pm
Mick,
You bet they are! With bananas and milk.
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
3:04 pm
jm, I’d love to read your take on why churches (or colleges) deserve any protection from taxes.
The Adventures of Huckabee Finn
March 2nd, 2011
3:05 pm
I’ll bet Scout likes pallin’ around with terrorists.
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:06 pm
Dave R.,
“All churches should have their tax exempt status removed. I’ve never made the connection between the “freedom of religion” bunch and Constitutionally being unable to tax churches”
Bingo!
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:06 pm
Dave R.,
Please don’t provoke him.
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
3:07 pm
Cherrios with bananas and milk – very good.
Raisin Bran – also very good.
Prunes? Got no use for them.
Frosted Flakes with milk – Grrrrrreat!
stands for decibels
March 2nd, 2011
3:07 pm
I can only speak for my community but were I a gambling man, I’d bet no jury here would convict/rule against the person who did the whipping.
That’s why there are appellate courts.
HD, much as I’d like to personally take a 2×4 and knock some sense into Fred Phelps and his clan (heck, who wouldn’t among the commenters here? anyone?), I’m telling you, that’s not a smart move.
Mick
March 2nd, 2011
3:07 pm
bosch
Good story….I sure do miss my shepard rottweiler, a very special dog who understood more english than 90% of the people in miami….
stands for decibels
March 2nd, 2011
3:09 pm
Why is it that we selectively titled the news story and mentioned in this post “anti-gay”?
Curiouser, by some chance are you unaware of the name of the website that this church calls its home page?
(no, I’m not going to post a link.)
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:10 pm
“a very special dog who understood more english than 90% of the people in miami….”
Good one Mick — I’m all emotionally choked after watching that video…
Doggone/GA
March 2nd, 2011
3:10 pm
“If raisins are proof that God is angry with us, prunes must be proof that the devil also deals in fruit”
AMEN to that! To me, dark raisins taste just like tiny little prunes. I do like golden raisins though
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:10 pm
“Why is it that we selectively titled the news story and mentioned in this post “anti-gay”? ”
Perhaps Westboro’s website would explain it:
godhatesf@gs.com
@ = a (blog filter)
That is, of course, if it is working: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/116009/20110224/anonymous-westboro-baptist-church-hackers-ddos-hacktivism.htm
stands for decibels
March 2nd, 2011
3:11 pm
I actually like prunes.
And I’m glad that most people think they’re icky—keeps ‘em relatively cheap. Y’all can have your fancy dried cranberries and apricots and such. (ok, they’re good too…)
Mick
March 2nd, 2011
3:11 pm
hd
I’ve been here for over a year and I do believe that’s the first time I’ve ever read of you gettin riled up….those losers mock humanity and death is the price we pay after living…
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
3:11 pm
Bosch, you know me; always poking a stick at something!
I’d just like to see if there is any logic behind it, or just emotion (you know, like you libs rely on
).
Doggone/GA
March 2nd, 2011
3:12 pm
“Y’all can have your fancy dried cranberries and apricots and such. (ok, they’re good too…)”
And NONE of them even come close to dried pears
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:12 pm
Bosch,
“the veterinary clinic was inundated with calls from all over the U.S. and even Canada of people wanting to adopt Wall-e.”
Too bad they only want the famous one…hopefully they will go to shelter locally and pick out a pup.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:13 pm
Yes, even Miss Witherspoon, your third-grade teacher with her multiplication tables, is now vulnerable. We love teachers individually, but their largest union is stuck in an era before charter schools and “Waiting for Superman.” Johnny isn’t learning as well as students elsewhere: a respected international test released in December showed American teenagers scoring 31st in math and 17th in reading. Yet the union stubbornly clings to the principle of lifetime tenure.
Doggone/GA
March 2nd, 2011
3:14 pm
“hopefully they will go to shelter locally and pick out a pup.”
And even more hopefully, a dog. Puppies are easy to get rid of, in fact there was a scandal a few years ago about shelters in the NE euthanizing adult dogs to make room for more puppies that they imported from other shelters – mostly, I’m sorry to say, from the South.
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:14 pm
Bosch,
“If they are for-profit, then yes. Non-profit, no.”
Harvard has an endowment of $27B…but they are non-profit?!
http://www.infoplease.com/toptens/largestendowments.html
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:16 pm
” or just emotion (you know, like you libs rely on ).”
Dave, come on, that puppy was ca-UTE!!!
jewcowboy,
For real.
Speaking of cute, I saw the funniest damn commercial last night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f558iOePUk
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:17 pm
stands for decibels,
“(no, I’m not going to post a link.)”
Don’t worry…you aren’t giving them any traffic..their site has been hit with a DOS attack: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/24/jester_westboro_baptists_anon_silliness/
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:17 pm
jewcowboy,
Yeah, I thought about that a little more after I posted it….
Mick
March 2nd, 2011
3:18 pm
jm
Hate to break this to you but charter schools have not been proven to be any better and in some cases – worse. You want students in the most deprived, poor neighborhoods to accel? Pay them money and attach a dollar value to their grades and see what happens. Stop putting all the blame on teachers and unions, very one dimensional thinking..
Doggone/GA
March 2nd, 2011
3:18 pm
“Harvard has an endowment of $27B…but they are non-profit?!”
endowments are not profits. I used to belong to a dog club that was threatened with the loss of their non-profit status because they had too much “ready” cash. They saved their status by investing the extra money in some kind of investment account – can’t remember after all these years what kind.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:19 pm
Dave R 3:04 – because they aren’t attempting to make a profit. Those that are (RE turkeys like the megachurches making millions, and SCAD, which has the highest paid “CEO” in the country, even more than Harvard, even though they’re a pittance) “for profit” should have their non-profit status revoked. But to make a blanket change, doesn’t make sense to me.
Although, I guess if you want to tax non-profits, that should work out, in principle anyway. Most decent higher eds don’t generate a profit, so no problem. The ones that do generate huge profits (SCAD, megachurches) would get nicked.
More I think about it, the less crazy it seems. But it still doesn’t make a huge amount of sense to me….
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:19 pm
To anyone who watches that commercial, that’s gonna be my new catch phrase….
“That’s so cute, it’s STUPID!”
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:19 pm
Doggone/GA,
“And even more hopefully, a dog”
I meant pup in the generic sense
Both of mine came from rescue as adults…and fully crate trained. Puppies are cute…but sooo much work…right Bosch?
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:21 pm
Doggone 3:18 – “endowments are not profits”
correct. they’re donations (unless the school has been making an operating profit – see SCAD)
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:21 pm
Bosch,
“Speaking of cute, I saw the funniest damn commercial last night:”
That’s so cute its stupid
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:21 pm
jewcowboy,
It’s like having twin toddlers that pee and poop everywhere and chew up all your shoes.
Jay
March 2nd, 2011
3:22 pm
jm, once more, writes that “Johnny isn’t learning as well as students elsewhere: a respected international test released in December showed American teenagers scoring 31st in math and 17th in reading. Yet the union stubbornly clings to the principle of lifetime tenure.”
If unions and tenure were the problem, as he alleges, Georgia would be excelling in education. We have no teacher unions; we have no lifelong tenure. Yet Georgia students still underperform even the American average.
m’s argument makes no logical sense. Repetition of it doesn’t change that fact.
Doggone/GA
March 2nd, 2011
3:23 pm
“Puppies are cute…but sooo much work…right Bosch?”
Couldn’t get ME to agree! I love puppies and have raised as many as 3 at a time. It’s much easier to raise 2 or more together. They keep each other occupied and I find watching them play together WAY too much fun!
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:24 pm
Doggone/GA / and jm,
Correct…endowments are not profits they are donations…tax deductible donations since they are non-profits. $27B worth of tax deductible donations…
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:25 pm
Doggone,
That’s why we kept two of the pups instead of just one – I hate to think what Apollo would do if he were actually ever bored or lonely. I wouldn’t have a house left.
@@
March 2nd, 2011
3:26 pm
Dave R.:
All churches should have their tax exempt status removed. I’ve never made the connection between the “freedom of religion” bunch and Constitutionally being unable to tax churches.
What are you wanting to tax?
Property? Some states do. If our little membership had to pay property taxes, we’d have to close our doors if we could afford to pay it at all…which I seriously doubt.
Sales taxes? My church pays sales taxes.
Tithe? Aside from the money we pay our minister (he pays taxes)…the money we take in pays for our utilities, supplies (taxed) and outreach/ministry programs here and abroad.
We’re lucky to get 50 people on any given Sunday. If I had to guess, I’d say 1/3 of our attendees tithe.
Do you wanna tax our benevolence fund which is available to anyone (non-members/community residents) in need?
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:26 pm
Jay 3:22 – those were Margaret Carlson’s words, not mine Jay. I failed to include the bloomberg link the column…..
jewcowboy
March 2nd, 2011
3:26 pm
Jay,
“Repetition of it doesn’t change that fact.”
Wait…you mean the Republicans are wrong in that if you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes the truth? I dunno…it seems to be working for them quite well so far.
Dave R.
March 2nd, 2011
3:27 pm
“jm’s argument makes no logical sense. Repetition of it doesn’t change that fact.”
OK, poking stick firmly through the cage bars . . .
Pot – meet kettle!
Doggone/GA
March 2nd, 2011
3:28 pm
“I wouldn’t have a house left.”
Got that right!
Bosch
March 2nd, 2011
3:28 pm
jm,
” I failed to include the bloomberg link the column…..”
You FAIL to credit alot of the crap you post — it doesn’t matter, crap is still crap and it doesn’t change that no matter how hard you blame teacher unions for what’s wrong with education, it isn’t true.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:28 pm
Here’s the link. She slams Walker (generally). But she does point out the paragraph, as posted previously….
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=al0tdn1P2axk
Jefferson
March 2nd, 2011
3:29 pm
That group deserves some of their own medicine.
jm
March 2nd, 2011
3:30 pm
And Jay, tenure and unions are PART of the problem. Obviously not the whole problem. And Carlson’s column was obviously a reference to schools on a national basis, not in reference to GA.
But go ahead, shoot down Carlson all day if you want….