In Florida, chilling testimony against guns on campus
From The St. Petersburg Times:
Sen. Greg Evers this morning postponed discussion of a controversial gun bill (SB 234) that, among other things, would allow people to carry weapons onto college campuses after the father of a killed Florida State University student showed up to oppose the bill at a Senate committee hearing.
Ashley Cowie, a 20-year-old sophomore studying interior design, was killed January 9, 2011 at a fraternity party when another student accidentally discharged a rifle, according to police. Dr. Robert Cowie described the incident during emotional testimony, telling the Senate Criminal Justice Committee that a bullet from an AK-74 went through his daughter’s chest and struck a second student. He held back tears as he said how Ashley’s identical twin sister Amy tried to perform CPR at the party to keep her alive. Amy was “looking at the whole in her sister’s chest with blood gushing from her mouth and she knew she was already dead,” Cowie said. “But she felt compelled to do something.”
Alcohol was found in the system of the shooter, 20-year-old Evan Wilhelm, police said.
“Allowing guns in an atmosphere of college parties puts everyone involved at increased and undue risk,” Cowie told senators. “Would you feel more or less at risk today if I were carrying a gun?”
Guns on college campuses — where combinations of young people, drugs and alcohol are common — are a bad idea. As Dr. Cowie notes:
“Allowing guns in an atmosphere of college parties puts everyone involved at increased and undue risk. Each young man in that fraternity that knew that weapons were present and had been brandished in the past will have to live with the guilt that they could have prevented this tragedy.”
Cowie’s testimony succeeded in delaying, but probably not preventing, passage of the bill. However, if you want evidence of the overwhelming power of the National Rifle Association, it’s hard to beat this one, also out of Florida:
“A controversial gun bill, strongly backed by the National Rifle Association and strongly opposed by doctors, passed through the Senate Criminal Justice Committee Tuesday morning.
SB 432 would not allow doctors to ask patients whether they own a gun. An offending doctor would be charged $10,000 for the first offense, at least $25,000 for the second offense, and a minimum of $100,000 for the third offense. Psychologists and psychiatrists dealing with emergency psychotic episodes would be exempt.
The bill, sponsored by Sen. Greg Evers, R-Baker, passed 4-1. Sen. Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland was absent, but Sen. Andy Gardiner, R-Orlando voted as an ex-officio member. Sen. Gwen Margolis, D-Sunny Isles cast the lone dissenting vote.
Doctors turned out in force to oppose the measure, saying it hampers their ability to evaluate patient safety…
But Marian Hammer, a National Rifle Association lobbyist and former national president, said doctors are pushing an anti-gun agenda on their patients and intruding on their Second Amendment rights.
“A growing political agenda is being carried out in examination rooms,” Hammer said. “It has become about the politics of some medical doctors, and it has to stop.”
Doctors can’t even ask about gun ownership? A $10,000 fine for simply daring to raise the question?
Really now.
– Jay Bookman
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774 comments Add your comment
me too
February 24th, 2011
6:52 pm
Oh but no…You will shoot yourself or a family member. Idiots. Of course if you have a a gun you may shoot a family member. In the bottom layers of our culture. at a trailer park near you…who is your most likley enemy, Charles Manson, or your toothless shirtless brother in law, drinkin his 23rd beer. Idiots.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
February 24th, 2011
6:52 pm
…………. or one of these ?
I thought you said that was a nasty experience? Glutton for punishment???
md
February 24th, 2011
6:54 pm
“I’m guessing people getting furloughed or losing their jobs to budget cuts isn’t sacrifice enough?”
Nope. Not when we are sitting on 14 trillion in debt and counting. It is about perception (and reality). Those paying income taxes to fund the gov’t don’t much care for the fact that the gov’t continues to grow and the average salary is now more than the average private sector worker that does the funding.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
7:04 pm
Southern Comfort:
Not “punishment” like a 12 guage with +p shells but SCARY !
Charlie and Dave, the Koch Heads
February 24th, 2011
7:09 pm
My fellow God-fearing, freedom-loving, Tea Party Patriots,
It has come to our attention that our great nation is suffering under a massive debt brought on by out of control spending and that this massive debt will only cause us great suffering until it is eliminated. After careful analysis, we have determined that each and every one of us must pay our fair share of this massive debt so we can lay this issue to rest once and for all and move forward once again. Therefore, we are calling on each and every one of you to remit payment of your fair share of this massive debt in the amount of $40,000 to the IRS. We will likewise make payment of our fair share of $40,000 once we are assured that each and every one of you have done so. Thank you for doing your part to eliminate this massive burden. We will be contacting you again in the near future to discuss our plans to eliminate the massive burdens brought on us by social security, medicare, medicaid and all other social wastes. You’re welcome.
Pogo
February 24th, 2011
7:12 pm
Obama is about to boogy down to Motown at the White House with a bunch of hand selected “lumanaries” and his family is currently skiing at a luxury resort in Colorado. Meanwhile, the American people are paying $3.30 at the pump for gasoline and struggling to pay for the food they eat. Let them eat cake, right Mr. “President”?
is bookman confused
February 24th, 2011
7:14 pm
what is an ak74
is bookman confused
February 24th, 2011
7:15 pm
Where can I get one
Charlie and Dave, the Koch Heads
February 24th, 2011
7:15 pm
The free market must be left to set prices for gasoline and food and all other things, fellow tea party patriots. How could any of you expect it to be any other way. To do so is completely unpatriotic.
is bookman confused
February 24th, 2011
7:16 pm
must be a lot badder than the ak47
Jay
February 24th, 2011
7:17 pm
Damned if I know, Confused. But given the emotions of the moment for Dr. Cowrie, I’m willing to overlook his minor error.
How about you?
Pogo
February 24th, 2011
7:18 pm
ODDOWL, the killers would still have concealed handguns that were brought in from Mexico or elsewhere. Outlaw guns here and the criminal element would just consider that as another contraband that they can sell and make money from (such as the unending flow of illegal drugs) that they could provide for criminals in the US. We haven’t done such a good job of stopping the drugs, now have we? Guns wouldn’t be that tough for them either.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
February 24th, 2011
7:18 pm
Those paying income taxes to fund the gov’t don’t much care for the fact that the gov’t continues to grow and the average salary is now more than the average private sector worker that does the funding.
If that’s the case, then it’s all about perception and reality be damned. Losing jobs does not grow government. It’s pure bunk to compare average salaries for public sector vs private sector without trying to compare apples to apples, which most comparisons refuse to do because then the truth would really be known.
Employment and wages of the largest occupations, May 2009
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/largest_occs.htm
Distribution of workers in each major occupational group by wage range, May 2009
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/distribution_table.htm
Looking at those two charts. The top five occupations employ around 15.6 million and their mean wages are less than $14 with the exception of registered nurses. Those jobs do not typically require a college degree although it may help to have one. The only two groups that you will find in the public sector, that matches those, is office clerks and registered nurses, but nowhere near the numbers employed. If you average the private sector wages, you have at least 13 million with an mean wage of around $10 an hour to begin with. Trying to compare that with public sector workers, when there are almost none in those low wage occupations, will never show the true average wages because you’re not comparing like jobs.
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 24th, 2011
7:24 pm
Those paying income taxes
That would include government workers, too, wouldn’t it?
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
7:26 pm
Any history buff will love this. World War I Marines (who had charged through a few wheatfields themselves in France) re-enact Pickett’s Charge in Gettysburg for the 1922 Veterans Reunion.
Fascinating !
http://www.gettysburgdaily.com/?p=9851
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
February 24th, 2011
7:28 pm
Those paying income taxes
That would include government workers, too, wouldn’t it?
According to my W2’s, you’re damned right. I actually realized that the country gets free labor from me. When the job requires me to do long stretches of overtime, I end up paying more in taxes than what I earn. Nobody seems to complain that I give free labor and think I should be paid for my labor though. Oh well, I guess that’s part of the sacrifice that md is saying we should make. Although I’ve been making that sacrifice long before the economic collapse.
Pogo
February 24th, 2011
7:35 pm
Please God, let that dumb@$$ blond from Housewives of Atlanta just go away from our lives forever. Mindless tramps like this one have no place in public life which makes me wonder why the AJC continues to waste print (or bites) on her.
And what about the 14 million in stimulus dollars that has just disappeared in that corrupt group that is the Atlanta city government? Haven’t seen anything else on that one since the AJC printed it yesterday. Maybe I just missed it. Heard anything Jay?
Tommy Maddox
February 24th, 2011
7:37 pm
The bad part about Pickett’s Charge is that they got mowed down by the Union forces. Same results that happened in WW1 charging trenches.
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 24th, 2011
7:38 pm
SoCo @ 7:28
Back in the late 70’s, I was in a similar situation in the private sector. I took home less money for working 48 hours than I did for working 40 hours. It shoved me up a bracket. They could never understand why I didn’t want to work overtime.
Normal
February 24th, 2011
7:43 pm
This is freaking weird and just a little scarey to me. What do y’all think?
Lt. Gen. William Caldwell was just busted by Rolling Stone for using psychological operations (psy-ops) on U.S. senators and congresspeople visiting Afghanistan. His actions are unbelievable and illegal, and he must resign immediately. Sign our petition to have him removed from his post in Afghanistan.
Caldwell is one of Petraeus’ most important subordinates in Afghanistan, charged with training the Afghan National Security Forces. But in this position of power, he’s abused his authority, using psychological warfare experts to seek “leverage” over U.S. officials, seeking “pressure points” to manipulate legislators into spending more money and lives on the failing Afghanistan War.
His staff sought ways to use psychological operations to secretly influence lawmakers without their knowledge, and when confronted by a subordinate fed up with their illegal behavior, Caldwell’s spokesperson shouted, “It’s not illegal if I say it isn’t!”
Caldwell’s actions are disrespectful, dangerous and illegal. We need to alert our elected officials that tax dollars are being spent propagandizing them and let them know we support them when they take action to stop it. And, with Congress out of session for a district work week, it’s up to us to speak out while this outrage is still in the news. Please sign our petition today to demand his immediate resignation. If he will not give it, the president should fire him.
If we get 10,000 or more signatures, we’ll deliver our petition to the White House and Congress next week. Please sign our petition today.
Sincerely,
Derrick Crowe, Robert Greenwald
and the Brave New Foundation team
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 24th, 2011
7:43 pm
Tommy Maddox
After Pickett’s Charge at Gettysburg, the assault on Marye’s Heights at Fredricksburg, the Battle of Franklin and several others, you’d think that they would have known what the result of charging trenches in WWI would be.
Pogo
February 24th, 2011
7:44 pm
me too, so I think you are saying that those living in trailers are nothing but our societies garbage to be disposed of (unlike those that live in apartments or houses that they can’t afford and that drive leased Lexus’s). What have you got against those that have to live in trailers? Just because their financial situation forces them to live in them does that make them any worse than you or I? You are present a fine representation of the typical passionate liberal. Especially when you probably don’t have a pot to p!$$ in yourself.
Southern Comfort (aka The Man)
February 24th, 2011
7:50 pm
Pogo
I think those posts are simply someone trying to stir up crap. I just scrolled right on by.
godless heathen
February 24th, 2011
8:03 pm
Jay, I still say Red Herring. Google the news reports of the shooting. From jacksonville.com:
“A Florida State University student from Orange Park was shot and killed early Sunday morning in an off-campus fraternity house. Ashley Cowie, a 20-year-old sophomore, died in what Tallahassee police are describing as an accidental shooting.”
Off campus.
“According to police, Evan Wilhelm, a 20-year-old junior from Ponte Vedra, was showing his rifle to friends in the Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity house when it accidentally discharged, striking Cowie in the chest and then Keith Savino, a 20-year-old junior from Tampa, in the wrist.Cowie was reported dead at the scene.”
Rifle.
Nothing whatsoever to do with CCW, on or off campus.
AmVet
February 24th, 2011
8:33 pm
josef, just got back in awhile ago and saw your response.
My suspicion is that the TP simply has way too many nutjobs. I believe at least 30% believe the president is not a US citizen.
Birthers, bigots and bizarre BSers who like to parrot the latest socialist/fascist/whatever nonsense they hear from the charlatans and talking heads.
On the other hand (Tevye) I have come out in favor of the movement in principle and do not indict all of the people involved. Of course.
I just think our BS detectors are much too acute…
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
8:36 pm
Tommy & Hillbilly:
Well, I hate to tell you this but I was involved in nearly the same thing in V.N.
It was called “squad on line” assault. Sometimes it even involved an entire company.
I had a short story published a few years back regarding one of those I was involved in. After entering an open area and taking sniper fire from a treeline about 300 yards away, the company (about 120 men) “charged” on line. Now keep in mind when I say “charged” in 110 degree heat and high humidity with 80 pounds of gear ………… it was more like a slow trot at best.
The point of the story was I heard some whooping and yelling to my right and as I looked, someone had run up a Confederate Battle Flag on a bamboo pole. I think he was just waiting for the right opportunity.
I like to say I was in the last Confederate charge ………. maybe ………….
Lord knows what the NVA thought. By he time we got there they were long gone.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
8:37 pm
Any Senator or Congressperson who would let themselves get snookered by a General should be ashamed to admit it.
But their not.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
8:41 pm
Excuse me: “they’re”
bobthegunslinger
February 24th, 2011
8:55 pm
i sorry for the doctor`s loss,but what does a drunken frat party off campus,with a rifle,under age,no concealed weapons permit have to do with issuing concealed weapon permit holder`s their right to defend themselves on campus with a concealed pistol?
Charlie and Dave, the Koch Heads
February 24th, 2011
8:57 pm
You are present a fine representation of the typical passionate liberal.
I thought he came across as the typical compassionate conservative. A real Tea Party Patriot.
Charlie and Dave, the Koch Heads
February 24th, 2011
9:04 pm
Bloomberg reports that during the 2010 election, oil and gas companies were the 15th largest source of political contributions. Koch Industries Inc. was the largest contributor in the industry, and gave over 90 percent of their money to Republicans.
Well, we’re just people looking out for the best interests of people.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
9:11 pm
Where is everybody?
Del?
BADA?
Hillbilly?
BADA BING
February 24th, 2011
9:20 pm
Hey Dudes, EPIC kegger at my fraternity Fri nite. Girls, booze, pizza, smokes, live band. Be there or miss out on the party of the century. BYO AK47.
RB from Gwinnett
February 24th, 2011
9:39 pm
Jay, if you can tell me why a doctor would be so concerned a 9 year old with strep throat would be a suicide risk they need to know if there are guns in their home, I’ll stop answering the quesiton “none of your dang business”.
I would bet there are far more children killed near college campuses by abortions than by guns, but I don’t see you on here calling for an end to abortions or the sex that created the problem to start with.
And, no, the doc doesn’t get a pass for the AK-74 faux pax and more than you’d give a pass to any conservative who made a similar mistake. You wouldn’t.
RB from Gwinnett
February 24th, 2011
9:46 pm
SC, if you take money out of the Salvation Army kettle in front of Publix and put it in the Salvation Army kettle in front of Kroger, have you given to the Salvation Army?
Jay
February 24th, 2011
9:49 pm
RB, the father in question is a conservative, a registered Republican.
And as to the doctor issue, I feel no need to defend what a doctor says or does not say to a patient. All I ask is:
Do we need to pass a law outlawing the question?
Drifter
February 24th, 2011
9:59 pm
I can’t think of a reason why we need a law to outlaw the question and I’m a Life Member of the NRA. You can always choose not to answer or ask the doctor why he/she needs to know.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
10:02 pm
I just saw this caption under a photo on Google:
“General Pershing and General Bliss inspecting the camp, with Colonel Winn, Commander of the 24th Infantry during Punitive Expedition into Mexico”
Punitive Expedition into Mexico ……….. hummmmm ………… I like the sound of that. Maybe it’s time again.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
10:02 pm
Drifter:
Or better yet, get another doctor.
Del
February 24th, 2011
10:06 pm
0311, Came on here late, so bring me up to date. Are the Shirleys still whining about law abiding people who own firearms, while giving a pass to criminals or are we on to another topic for the evening? I’m not in the mood to wade back the several pages on this thread.
RB from Gwinnett
February 24th, 2011
10:06 pm
Why would anybody who doesn’t own a gun refuse to answer the question? Refusing to answer is a “yes”.
You’re doing nothing more than creating a database of who owns guns by asking children to provide information the government is supposedly not allowed to ask for or retain in the case of gun purchases.
That’s why.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 24th, 2011
10:08 pm
me too, so I think you are saying that those living in trailers are nothing but our societies garbage to be disposed of (unlike those that live in apartments or houses that they can’t afford and that drive leased Lexus’s). What have you got against those that have to live in trailers?
Well, the guy can French-kiss my South part. I own my trailer free and clear. Which is more than he can say about his place. Sure, the trailer’s got a hole in the side of it from where I shot out the TV after accidently tuning to one of the librul stations, but it’s mine. And I can hitch it up and move someplace else anytime I want to. Which is also more than he can say about his place.
Bunch of snooty libruls!
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 24th, 2011
10:10 pm
0311
The 24th was Daddy’s division. He kept up with some of his buddies after he mustered out but most of them that stayed in got killed in Korea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24th_Infantry_Division_(United_States)
Del
February 24th, 2011
10:14 pm
H.D. God bless your father and his buddies. Korea was one helluva war. In fact one of my hero’s who fought in Korea and the Nam was the late Col. David Hackworth an Army guy who considered Marines to be the best. Semper Fi
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
10:15 pm
Del:
You hit the nail right on the head.
Sheep, wolves and sheepdogs and the “sheep” have been driving me crazy all day !
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
10:16 pm
Del:
Have you read Hackworth’s two books ?
One about his whole career and another about a sorry battalion he took over in Nam?
MC
February 24th, 2011
10:18 pm
godless heathen
February 24th, 2011
12:12 pm
What the story of the accidental discharge shooting by drunken frat boys has to do with legal concealed carry on campus escapes me.
If that escapes you then you are dumber than a box of rocks.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
10:22 pm
Hillbilly:
Ooo Rah!
md
February 24th, 2011
10:23 pm
“That would include government workers, too, wouldn’t it?”
Do the math…….take 2 employees, one public and one private, making the same money. Let’s say 30k. Both pay 10k in taxes, that leaves 20k that others must pay.
The difference is the private sector must generate the entire remaining 40k.
As for comparing comparable jobs:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm
I believe they compare jobs that are found in both segments.
No personal ill-will toward soco, just pointing out how some folks view the picture.
Del
February 24th, 2011
10:24 pm
0311, okay lib’s lets dispense with the phony stats gunaphobic bull $hit,and tell us why you truly believe how a gun causes death without someone ( a person) activates it by pulling the trigger.
MC
February 24th, 2011
10:26 pm
Maybe the point is godless heathen, that alcohol, immature college kids, and guns are not a desirable combination, dumbazz.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
10:26 pm
Del:
Remember, they’re not into inanimate objects. They run on emotion.
Del
February 24th, 2011
10:27 pm
0311, I read About Face. I think if things get much worse I’ll just move to Australia and become a rabbit farmer.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
10:28 pm
MC:
Or as has been stated earlier:
Cars
Motorcycles
Balconies
Lakes
Adam
February 24th, 2011
10:29 pm
Del: Explain to me how a person causes death by yelling BANG instead of using a gun, and then I’ll answer your question.
MC
February 24th, 2011
10:30 pm
Can’t argue with that either 0311/0317 – 1811/1801, so why add another deadly item to an already potent witch’s brew.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
10:30 pm
Del:
My favorite part of both books is when he was an infantry captain in Korea.
When a brand new Lt. came in, he would have the guy braced in front of him and the platoon staff sgt.
Then he would say something like this, “Lt. ………. you do not run this platoon. Staff sgt. Jones does. Is that clear? And when he tells me you’re ready, I’ll let you command it but he always runs it. Is that clear?”
I love it.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
10:31 pm
MC:
Very simple.
Unlike all of the others, it’s protected by the 2nd Amendment.
Del
February 24th, 2011
10:33 pm
Adam, oh yes, I forgot, bang. Were you into cap guns as a child or were dolls more interesting to you?
md
February 24th, 2011
10:34 pm
For the sake of clarity, the gun in question was off campus, so no law would have prevented what happened.
md
February 24th, 2011
10:35 pm
Cap guns……and I “killed” an awful lot of bad guys……..and on our politically incorrect days, we took out a few injuns.
Adam
February 24th, 2011
10:36 pm
Del: Cap guns were usually much less fun than taking a Barbie Ferrari and all of the Barbies from my sister’s room and running over all of their heads with it.
MC
February 24th, 2011
10:38 pm
To bad there’s not an amendment that dictates common sense trumps all other amendments, because anyone that would advocate allowing guns, alcohol, and immature kids to ever coexist lacks said common sense and might just be a bigger threat to society as a whole than the formerly mentioned 3 items.
Del
February 24th, 2011
10:38 pm
Adam, to each their own, carry on.
the original and still the best John Galt
February 24th, 2011
10:41 pm
There is such a rifle as an AK74. It’s the later version of the AK47, having been updated to fire a 5.54MM projectile, instead of the original 7.62 X 39MM cartridge.
Don’t know for sure which one the campus shooting involved.
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 24th, 2011
10:42 pm
I may be dense but I have a little trouble seeing what an AK47 has to do with a concealed carry law. Be fairly hard to carry a concealed AK on your person.
md
February 24th, 2011
10:44 pm
“because anyone that would advocate allowing guns, alcohol, and immature kids to ever coexist ”
I think that is the point……that will coexist regardless of what the law is or isn’t.
last I checked, the alcohol part of that equation was already illegal for those under 21, hasn’t stopped many though.
Del
February 24th, 2011
10:45 pm
md, be careful with that admission as it may end up in the modern day or latter day history books with you as a bad guy.
MC
February 24th, 2011
10:46 pm
I bet campus cops just can’t wait to face the possibility of having to arrest a drunk college kid that just might be packing heat. How many college kids will bite the dust when that same cop blows him away when he reaches into his jacket to get his ID. Was he reaching for a gun maybe. This guns on campus thing is so dumb as to defy all logic. Why even open the door to these possibilities? You second amendment fanatics don’t give a tinker’s damn about how many parents kids die from an asinine idea. To you cretins it’s all about your political agenda.
Adam
February 24th, 2011
10:47 pm
md: I think that is the point……that will coexist regardless of what the law is or isn’t.
Resistance is Futile.
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 24th, 2011
10:47 pm
To you cretins it’s all about your political agenda.
And it’s not for you? Be honest, now.
MC
February 24th, 2011
10:53 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 24th, 2011
10:42 pm
I may be dense but I have a little trouble seeing what an AK47 has to do with a concealed carry law. Be fairly hard to carry a concealed AK on your person.
Of course you don’t. In fact the AK47 is preferable because at least you might see it coming and have the opportunity to hit the dirt before you get blown away. That’s not the case when the drunk kid blows you away for looking the wrong way at his girlfriend with that gun you never knew was even present.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
10:55 pm
md:
With my trusty daisy air rifle I also killed a whole bunch of Germans, Japs and Yankees coming over Missionary Ridge (since I went to Missionary Ridge Elementary School). I just couln’t kill enough of them Yankees and we lost.
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 24th, 2011
10:55 pm
MC
Well I’ve lived 50 plus years and nobody has tried to shoot me yet. And if somebody does, they are to blame, not the firearm. It’s just a tool, like a shovel.
Del
February 24th, 2011
10:55 pm
I wonder if some kid at that frat party had of taken some young folks who were there out for a beer run and slammed head on into another vehicle killing that young woman, would we be talking about it on one of Jay’s threads? She’d be just as dead and her death would have been just as tragic. just sayin
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
10:57 pm
MC:
Please go back (if you have the time) and read all of my posts. Seriously …………. and then tell me what you think.
MC
February 24th, 2011
10:57 pm
No Hillbilly it’s not. It’s about common sense. I happen to own quite a few guns and possess a concealed carry permit myself. But I possess the logic to know there’s a time and place for everything and a keg party is neither the time or the place for drunk kids and guns to come together. But I know that is beyond your comprehension.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
11:00 pm
Hillbilly:
“It’s just a tool”
Yep …………. and this is no joke, I have had a gun of some type in my hand virtually everyday (except hospital stays, etc.) since I was 18 years old. I am almost 64. It’s part of me.
If others don’t feel like doing that …… fine. Just don’t mess with my right.
md
February 24th, 2011
11:00 pm
“That’s not the case when the drunk kid blows you away for looking the wrong way at his girlfriend with that gun you never knew was even present.”
Which he may or may not do regardless of any law. Something college kids are also famous for….not exactly living by the letter of the law.
Let’s count a few….drugs….alcohol…..vandalism……etc
Do i advocate for guns on campus…not really, but these kids will do whatever they please regardless………….
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
11:00 pm
MC:
What about the “designated driver”?
Del
February 24th, 2011
11:02 pm
Taps y’all and enjoy this evening.
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 24th, 2011
11:02 pm
MC
Any fool knows you don’t mix guns and alcohol but nobody is advocating that. All anybody is saying is that this was an AK47 (hard to conceal), it was off campus, and the people were drinking illegally. Banning guns on college campuses wouldn’t have done a damn thing to stop this incident. This incident happened because one or more people acted stupidly and they are responsible and they should pay the price.
I was taught to shoot when I was 5 years old and I’ve always had a healthy respect for firearms for just that reason. I was taught and taught properly. I always knew what a gun was, what it was for, and how to handle it. Most of these kids that get hurt with guns have never been around guns growing up or been taught what not to do.
MC
February 24th, 2011
11:05 pm
I would hope that a 64 year old man wouldn’t be at a kegger 0311/0317 – 1811/1801. There’s a big difference in you and a hotheaded drunk kid with a gun I would think.
BADA BING
February 24th, 2011
11:05 pm
How many guns are in the US? Millions? Aren’t you anti-gun loonies just astounded that there aren’t millions of people shot everyday? Strange isn’t it, that millions of people don’t kill themselves, their families, or strangers every day? That doesn’t fit your logic does it?
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
11:05 pm
MC:
No one wants to give immature college students the right to carry on campus.
My list would only include:
Former police officer
Fomer or current military
R.O.T.C. member
University Faculty member
University Employee
Regular Students over 21 (negotiable on that)
What do you see wrong with the above ?
Adam
February 24th, 2011
11:05 pm
md: We all make choices! And some of us can choose not to believe that resistance is futile and try to work out a way to help prevent this kind of occurrence.
The right to bear arms is NOT the right to bear the most effective killing weapon on the planet.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
11:07 pm
P.S. Everyone on the list would obviously have to be 21 also.
MC
February 24th, 2011
11:09 pm
I agree Hillbilly. But why set a gas can so close to a fire. You know eventually somebody’s going to add a little fuel to the flame and blow the whole damn place up. The gas can’s not illegal either but that doesn’t prevent some dumbazz drunk from pouring the gas straight from the can now does it?
Adam
February 24th, 2011
11:09 pm
How about we start with if you’re under 21 you are not allowed to possess certain firearms, and you’re not allowed to have a conceal carry permit? Sure, kids will get around that law, and what happens when they do? They get arrested for concealing their weapon, or for possessing one that was outlawed for their age. And, much like we deal with people who serve to minors, there would be consequences for those who aid and abet.
md
February 24th, 2011
11:10 pm
The right to bear arms is NOT the right to bear the most effective killing weapon on the planet.”
You mean a car?
It kills from within and without. Oh that dreadful killing machine……..kind of hard to conceal though.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
11:10 pm
Adam:
Here’s what the right to bear arms really means.
Suppose that due to some scientific achievement that all gunpowder in the world could be rendered non-explosive.
But the military and police say, “Don’t worry, because we now have another weapon just invented to protect you with ……….. the new rifle and pistol rayguns!”
Guess what?
I want my raygun !
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 24th, 2011
11:12 pm
Adam:
“The right to bear arms is NOT the right to bear the most effective killing weapon on the planet.”
I’m not totally disagreeing with you but that’s sure what it meant back then !
md
February 24th, 2011
11:12 pm
“And, much like we deal with people who serve to minors, there would be consequences for those who aid and abet.”
But I thought your kind didn’t believe in consequences……………..certainly not when it comes to other choices.
Adam
February 24th, 2011
11:13 pm
I hope someone comes up with that actually. Then the rayguns can be taken care of with simple EMP devices.
Tweets that mention In Florida, chilling testimony against guns on campus | Jay Bookman -- Topsy.com
February 24th, 2011
11:14 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Gold Country FNRA, Tar Heel Rifle Club. Tar Heel Rifle Club said: In Florida, chilling testimony against guns on campus – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) http://ow.ly/1bucLY [...]
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 24th, 2011
11:14 pm
MC
I don’t really have a problem with no guns on a college campus, that’s for the college to decide and nobody is forced to go there. I guess I made my original point poorly but the point was, this whole column today was set up as a straw argument. It’s bad for the family that this happened and the girl in question was an innocent bystander but the column set it up as if these laws would have stopped this and they wouldn’t have.
I still think the best thing people can teach their kids has nothing to do with guns, one way or the other. The thing to teach them is that when trouble happens, it happens fast, usually so fast that you can’t stop it, so the best way to stay out of trouble, is stay out of places and situations where trouble occurs.
md
February 24th, 2011
11:15 pm
Any of you know the history of Lewis and Clark and their repeating air rifle??
Interesting story that makes plenty of sense as to how they managed to get to the coast and back alive.
MC
February 24th, 2011
11:15 pm
Bada Bing maybe you should look a little deeper and find out just how many accidental shooting deaths do occur everyday. Most involve kids and legal firearms. And just how many dead kids are acceptable to you wannabe gunslingers anyway? Nobody is trying to take your right to have a gun away from you, but thank God almighty there are people still left in this country that realize there are places that a gun just doesn’t belong under any circumstance.
Adam
February 24th, 2011
11:16 pm
md: If by “other choices” you mean abortion, and only abortion, then your statement should have been “another, specific, choice.”
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 24th, 2011
11:17 pm
Adam
In Georgia anyway, you have to be 21 to get a concealed carry permit.