The infidelity of states’ rights proponents
NOTE: This post includes material published in a post late last week. It is published here as the electronic version of today’s column in the AJC, to give AJC readers a chance to comment and share.
In Congress and at the state Legislature, states’ rights are all the rage. According to many conservatives, Congress can act only in those areas in which the Constitution explicitly empowers it to act. All other responsibility resides with the states.
In particular, conservatives claim that the commerce clause — which gives Congress the power to regulate commerce between the states — has been distorted to apply to areas well beyond what the Founders intended, particularly in health care.
Georgia’s Republican congressmen have been among those leading that charge. Last year, U.S. Reps. Phil Gingrey and Tom Price — both of whom are physicians — were co-sponsors of a resolution declaring that “the very future of freedom and limited government depends on a restoration of American federalism and a real decentralization of government power.”
In remarks on the House floor, Gingrey has protested bitterly against a “‘Washington-knows-best’ solution and a one-size-fits-all approach”, and both men supported a new House rule that requires bill sponsors to cite a specific power enumerated in the Constitution that would authorize the proposed action.
However, the true test of your allegiance to principle comes not when you apply it to the other guy, but when you apply it to yourself. It’s all well and good to preach about the sanctity of marriage vows, for example, but the real test comes in whether you honor those vows in your own life.
In Washington last week, the House Judiciary Committee failed such a test. By a vote of 18-15 — all Republicans for, all Democrats against — the committee approved a law that would pre-empt and override state laws and longstanding state authority. It did precisely what Gingrey had complained about in another context; it imposed a “‘Washington-knows-best’ solution and a one-size-fits-all approach.”
The issue was medical malpractice, a favorite conservative cause. The bill approved by the committee would override state laws by putting a nationwide cap of $250,000 on non-economic damages. It would also cap punitive damages at $250,000 or twice the economic damages, whichever was greater.
According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, roughly one third of the states place no limits or caps on malpractice awards. And since most malpractice suits are argued in state courts, under state laws, why should Congress butt in? (Georgia law, by the way, limits punitive damages to $250,000 in most cases. However, the state Supreme Court has ruled that limits on other non-economic damages violate the Georgia constitution. That ruling would also be rendered moot by the proposed change in federal law).
To borrow the rhetoric of the right, where in the Constitution does it say that Congress can dictate to state governments, state courts, state judges and state juries how they should handle malpractice? What’s the source of that federal authority? I’ve looked in my handy pocket Constitution, and I can’t find such a provision.
Under conservative legal theory, it certainly can’t be the commerce clause, given that the commerce involved is strictly intra-state, not interstate. Most people do not cross state lines to get medical care, and malpractice insurance is sold on a state-by-state basis.
So what justifies such an intrusion on states’ rights? You may recall that under new House rules, sponsors are required to cite constitutional authority for their proposed bill. So I went looking through the Congressional Record and there it was:
On Jan. 24, the bill’s sponsor — a “Mr. Gingrey of Georgia” — claimed that the intrusion on states’ rights is authorized under the commerce clause.
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164 comments Add your comment
stands for decibels
February 22nd, 2011
7:31 am
Glad the dead-tree readers are seeing this today, Jay, but I gotta say, it loses something when you don’t have that Smoking Gun-ish screenshot of “Mr. Gingrey”’s justification staring at you, as your earlier online version of this had.
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
7:37 am
“The bill approved by the committee would override state laws by putting a nationwide cap of $250,000 on non-economic damages. It would also cap punitive damages at $250,000 or twice the economic damages, whichever was greater. ”
expect to see healthcare prices PLUMMET by lunch!
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
7:39 am
meanwhile, all you half-wits who actually thought that you were voting people into office who were going to “put the economy first” … suckers.
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
7:40 am
“expect to see healthcare prices PLUMMET by lunch!”
Yeah, just like they did in Texas…right?
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
7:45 am
doggone – seriously – isn’t healthcare in Texas FREE by now?
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
7:48 am
USinUK – speaking of Texas, Ludlow Porch is supposed to have gone to the Alamo once and asked “Why didn’t the Mexican Army just go around?”
Normal
February 22nd, 2011
7:48 am
Lewis And Clark Air Rifle
http://www.network54.com/Forum/451309/thread/1296928404/This+is+just+to+cool+not+to+spread+around
SoCo,
Check out the above. I read about this years ago but I never saw a picture of the rifle before….tres cool
carlosgvv
February 22nd, 2011
7:49 am
USinUK
Now now, don’t be too hard on these people. It takes a major effort for them to try to think, so show a little compassion.
TaxPayer
February 22nd, 2011
7:50 am
Oh NOES, Jay! You got it all wrong, you do. You see, with the healthcare legislation the Republicans all voted against it so it had to be wrong but with the malpractice legislation, the Republicans all voted for it so it had to be right. Don’t you see.
Normal
February 22nd, 2011
7:50 am
Oh…and Grand morning all y’all
Hell no, I ain’t forgittin’…What is it I ain’t forgittin, Ma?
stands for decibels
February 22nd, 2011
7:51 am
doggone – seriously – isn’t healthcare in Texas FREE by now?
don’t be naïve. You gotta allow private insurance companies to “compete across state lines”. (the other healthcare reform Big Idea from the “states righters” that, erm, effectively obliterates any individual state’s ability to actually regulate what goes on in that state…)
Granny Godzilla
February 22nd, 2011
7:52 am
“So what justifies such an intrusion on states’ rights?”
Greedy self righteous conservative muddleheadedness?
Granny Godzilla
February 22nd, 2011
7:55 am
USinUK
“all you half-wits who actually thought that you were voting people into office who were going to “put the economy first” … suckers.”
YES BUT, BUT, BUT at least we still get to have the Pentagon sponsor Nascar.
Priorities, priorities….
Peadawg
February 22nd, 2011
7:56 am
What’s wrong with capping the damages? Or am I totally missing something?
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
7:56 am
GG — hear! hear!
carlos — sorry, after their attack on PP, I’ve lost whatever last shred of compassion I had for those half-wits
Doggone –
I hear LP has done left us – very sad, indeed
stands for decibels
February 22nd, 2011
7:56 am
States rights only apply when you’re trying to keep poor folks, blacks, women and suchlike down and in a world of crap.
When you’re trying to limit greenhouse gas emissions, well that’s another story…
http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/Greenhouse_Gas_-_Vehicle_Emissions_-_EPA_Makes_Decision
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
7:57 am
GG – stoppit. stoppit. STOPPIT. it makes my eyes hurt.
TaxPayer
February 22nd, 2011
7:59 am
The New York Times recently reported that Congressman Gingrey has had three claims filed against him, the most recent of which involved a payment of $500,000 to avoid allowing a jury of his peers to otherwise render a decision on his conduct. I took the time to read the entirety of the appellate division decision from Georgia, which found that the case had sufficient merit to warrant jury consideration.
You don’t say. No. You DO say!
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
7:59 am
GG – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11570593
puts US conservatives to shame. they have no courage of their convictions.
stands for decibels
February 22nd, 2011
8:00 am
What’s wrong with capping the damages? Or am I totally missing something?
PD, some would say that there’s a moral issue in putting a rather arbitrary cap on the value of a life taken by negligence.
There’s also the whole business of wondering what kind of leverage an individual has, if the system is rigged so that it can absorb any efforts to correct its behavior through caps like this.
(Personally, I’m not necessarily opposed to the concept of ever setting any kind of caps, but a) I’m realistic about how much actual financial benefit they’d have to the public at large, and b) I’m extremely suspicious of those who continue to push such things.)
Bob
February 22nd, 2011
8:00 am
No Doggone, just like the prices dropped in Massachusetts after they started gov run healthcare.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 22nd, 2011
8:01 am
Well, Bookman don’t understand. That malpractice vote was because it’s OUR side of things. We don’t want Drs. paying big-time just because they cut off the wrong arm or leg. Heck, a arm or leg ain’t worth much. But this Obamacare is THEIR side of things. That’s why we got to have states rights on it.
If Bookman can’t understand that then he’s got no business writing for a big newspaper.
Have a good day everybody.
Steve
February 22nd, 2011
8:02 am
so everyone here agrees the republicans area bunch of hypocritical idiots. When does the rest of the country figure it out and get rid of this bunch of a**holes?
JKL2
February 22nd, 2011
8:02 am
Fight anything that might actually reduce medical costs and blame it on the Republicans. You guys are good…
TaxPayer
February 22nd, 2011
8:02 am
A little more from that link:
…Two aspects of that case were both disturbing and, perhaps, telling as to what motivated this Congressman to sponsor an anti-consumer/anti Constitution bill, such as HR 5:
1.Congressman Gingrey has recently characterized the case as a “distraction.” That distraction involved a dead baby and a partially paralyzed mother left in his wake.
2.There appear to be allegations in the case that the congressman, then a practicing physician, made false entries into an official medical record. Specifically, although there were medical entries on two specific days that Gingrey had seen and assessed this poor woman, her husband testified that he was with his wife all day and that Gingrey never saw or examined his wife.
AmVet
February 22nd, 2011
8:04 am
“What’s wrong with capping the damages?”
I generally don’t answer a question with a question, but what’s right about it?
It is a just another ina growing and very long line of contrived imbalance for corporate rights (can anyone say personhood?) trumping individual rights.
It would be like me asking what is wrong with capping CEO salaries.
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
8:04 am
“You gotta allow private insurance companies to “compete across state lines”. ”
See, they should have done that first…then this bill WOULD be relevent to inTERstate commerce!
Peadawg
February 22nd, 2011
8:05 am
“PD, some would say that there’s a moral issue…”
I stopped reading there. When a Democrat starts talking about morals the rest of the comment doesn’t mean jack.
Paul
February 22nd, 2011
8:05 am
“the true test of your allegiance to principle comes not when you apply it to the other guy, but when you apply it to yourself”
I think this is what Scout or USMC Dawg would call ‘a target-rich environment.’ No matter where you look, the principled rhetoric breaks down.
In a similar vein, all those posts we’ve read about how the states’ governors and attorneys general are leading the charge against overreaching federal power on health care and are enforcing the will of the people from the last election?
“Business lobby group paying for much of healthcare lawsuit”
“– Florida has paid less than $6,000 for its landmark challenge to President Barack Obama’s healthcare law largely because a business lobbying group is picking up an undisclosed share of the legal costs.
While Florida, joined by 25 other states, won a favorable ruling last month from a federal district judge, the cost the states have split so far amounts to $46,000.”
Just keep it in perspective. Remember, corporations are people, too.
Or, as Kojac would say, “Who owns ya’, baby?”
http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/02/21/2865399/business-lobby-group-paying-for.html
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
8:05 am
“I hear LP has done left us – very sad, indeed”
Yes, last week I think it was
JKL2
February 22nd, 2011
8:07 am
Enter your comments here
stands for decibels
February 22nd, 2011
8:07 am
When does the rest of the country figure it out and get rid of this bunch of a**holes?
My theory is that whatever party represents what we’ll call the “conservative” approach (which, of course, once upon a long ago was the Democratic party) will almost always manage to find enough wedge issues to keep them viable. Too many Hispanics in a state? Try to wedge ‘em away with social issues like abortion and gay marriage. Too many unemployed private sector workers? Get ‘em convinced that public employee unions are somehow stealing their lunch. You push those wedge issues for all their worth, you have no shame about it, and you move on to another wedge issue when the last one isn’t working any more.
So the answer is “never.” As Jesus might have put it, “the a**holes you will have with you always.”
Rightwing Troll
February 22nd, 2011
8:08 am
“What’s wrong with capping the damages? Or am I totally missing something?”
Yes you are missing the fact that this column has nothing to do with capping damages, and everything to do with folks railing against big gubbimint on one hand and then using big gubbimint for thier purposes on the other…
The point of the article is that if you are going to be a “state’s rights” proponent, you have to be a “state’s rights” proponent on ALL issues, not just the issues you oppose…
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 22nd, 2011
8:08 am
You gotta allow private insurance companies to “compete across state lines”
Now you’re getting it. See, somewhere in the U. S. of A., people can pick up health insurance for a couple bucks tops. It’s just that right now they won’t let us go find those policies.
Bob
February 22nd, 2011
8:09 am
Granny, why should the sevices not be allowed to advertise ? And don’t blame repubs, It seems that the services have advertised well before repubs took over the house. Why was it fine under dems but when repubs do not vote to end it, it’s a problem ? It’s like NAFTA and DADT, dems did it, then complained when repubs did not end it.
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
8:11 am
“What’s wrong with capping the damages?”
Strictly speaking, it isn’t “capping damages” it’s “capping PUNITIVE damages”
As far as I know, virtually all such laws introduced and/or passed don’t cap “real” damages, only the part of the judgement that is a punishment above and over the real cost to the patient. So if you are injured by a doctor that paralyzes you for life, you can still sue for ongoing costs to you for your care for the rest of your life, but you could (if this bill passes) only get $250,000 over those costs.
Th
February 22nd, 2011
8:11 am
Do you think they will support a state’s right to nullify the law?
Peadawg, if you thought we were spending too much money repairing wrecked cars, would you reduce the fines for speeding or increase them? That is why you don’t put medical errors on sale like this bill does. There is already evidence in states with caps that medical errors are rising, along with the expenses of treating those errors.
Jay, why can’t we get a correction on that AP article that said conservative estimates start at $50 billion per year? That is a ten year number. The CBO estimated at most $11 billion per year and savings to the taxpayer of $41 billion over ten years. I sent that to Shawna and got the automated response. Maybe she only corrects high school basketball players’ name spelling.
Bob
February 22nd, 2011
8:11 am
Redneck, why is the cost of Blue cross in AL almost half the cost of a similar plan in NY or Massachusetts ? It’s not a couple bucks but it is alot cheaper.
stands for decibels
February 22nd, 2011
8:11 am
I stopped reading there. When a Democrat starts talking about morals the rest of the comment doesn’t mean jack.
Oops, I forgot. Because I agree with a clear majority of the nation that allowing states to re-criminalize first-trimester elective abortion would be bad public policy, I have absolutely no right to ever use the term “moral issue” in a sentence.
Sorry ‘bout that, PD. I’ll have to let a Godly Republican ‘splain this whole business about malpractice caps to you.
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:13 am
“When a Democrat starts talking about morals the rest of the comment doesn’t mean jack”
yes. GOP stands for God’s Own Party.
oy.
Peadawg
February 22nd, 2011
8:14 am
“You gotta allow private insurance companies to “compete across state lines” – Duh.
Paul
February 22nd, 2011
8:14 am
Rightwing Troll
“The point of the article is that if you are going to be a “state’s rights” proponent, you have to be a “state’s rights” proponent on ALL issues, not just the issues you oppose…”
One HAS to?
Why does it have to be all or nothing? Aren’t there exceptions to general rules? Aren’t there situations that consider other factors? Don’t even the most hardcore ideologues realize exceptions? Lie to save a life? Steal to avoid starvation? Opposed to abortion but concede it may be necessary in some instances? Be in favor of abortion but concede there may be instances where it should not be permitted? Be in favor of protecting the environment but allowing a ‘little’ pollution as okay?
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
8:14 am
“why is the cost of Blue cross in AL almost half the cost”
And if insurance can’t be bought across state lines…how come MY insurance plan provided by my company is Blue Cross/Blue Shield of ALABAMA?
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:15 am
Redneck – “See, somewhere in the U. S. of A., people can pick up health insurance for a couple bucks tops”
yep. it doesn’t cover ANYthing, but it’ll only cost you $2.50/month
Peadawg
February 22nd, 2011
8:15 am
“Sorry ‘bout that, PD.” – Not a problem. I’ll let it slide this time punkin.
Th
February 22nd, 2011
8:15 am
Another argument is the equal protection under the law. If I run over someone in a cross-walk, would my jury be restricted to $250,000 non-economic damages?
AmVet
February 22nd, 2011
8:15 am
“Just keep it in perspective. Remember, corporations are people, too.”
Paul, last year I I complained several times to the Dunwoody Chamber of Commerce about their slogan, “Business are citizens too!”.
Not saying I was the lone factor, but within a few months they changed it to “Smart People, Smart Business”.
Schmaltzy and dumb maybe, but at least it is no longer a perversion of American jurisprudence.
Empowered citizenry, baby!
AmVet's Mystery Meat
February 22nd, 2011
8:16 am
Why are you recylcing material from last week?
JKL2
February 22nd, 2011
8:16 am
AmVet- but what’s right about it?
The entire problem with healthcare is the insurance side of the industry. When you take out competition, the sky’s the limit for what doctors charge for services. By putting on caps, it lowers the insurance rates which should (in theory) lower the costs of services.
I have a cousin who used to be a general surgeon. He became a pathologist just because he couldn’t stand his $17k/month insurance premium.
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
8:17 am
“Why are you recylcing material from last week?”
Blogspot is ready when you are…and I promise not to come to YOUR blog and complain about your choice of subjects
Granny Godzilla
February 22nd, 2011
8:18 am
Bob
Oh I don’t know, maybe I’d cut the advertising budgets of the armed services before I’d cut:
Clean Water State Revolving Fund -$700M
Drinking Water State Revolving Fund -$250M
Job Training Programs -$2B
Community Health Centers -$1.3B
Maternal and Child Health Block Grants -$210M
Family Planning -$327M
Poison Control Centers -$27M
CDC -$755M
NIH -$1B
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services -$96M
But if YOU think Nascar Sponsorship is more important that clean water…well that’s very special.
Tea Party Patriot
February 22nd, 2011
8:18 am
You are on the right track Jay. But both parties do what the republicans are doing in this case. And that is why the growth of the Tea Party will not halted.
We recognize the hypocrisy even more clearly than you do and as soon as we can replace Gingrey with someone who respects State’s rights in all cases, and not just a select few, we will do so.
AmVet
February 22nd, 2011
8:19 am
JKL2, thanks for the response.
Yes I agree that the insurance part of the equation is a debacle. At least 30 cents out of every health care dollar. Bloated, redundant, ineffective, corrupted layer after layer after layer of paper pushers and care deniers.
I wish we could discuss it further, but alas duty calls.
Later, gators…
Peadawg
February 22nd, 2011
8:21 am
BTW, has anyone seen the picture of all the copies of the budget in this article http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/obama-defends-his-new-838824.html? Was it really necessary to print all those copies? Put that sucker in a pdf document and send it to everybody, damn.
Paul
February 22nd, 2011
8:21 am
AmVet
Schmaltzy beats plain stupid any day -
AmVet's Mystery Meat
February 22nd, 2011
8:22 am
Doggone, I am fairly certain I was not addressing you – unless you happened to be the author of this blog. No? I didn’t think so. In other words dear – put a sock in it.
stands for decibels
February 22nd, 2011
8:23 am
Why are you recylcing material from last week?
Probably because people like me complained some months back when we’d find a “final” version of a column somewhere deep in the bowels of the AJC website’s “Opinion” section, and wondered why Jay didn’t just publish it on his blog, even if it meant covering material we’d all discussed in depth some days earlier.
You know, listening to your readers, that kinda crazy stuff.
barking frog
February 22nd, 2011
8:24 am
The States Rights ship sailed in 1865. Now we need to look at
whether we need States at all. State governments are cumbersome
and the results are burdens placed on the citizens with no benefits.
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:26 am
bob – 8:09 – what do you think the Army is gaining by sponsoring NASCAR? do you really think that NASCAR attendees had never heard of it before they saw a car whizzing around the track? do you really think NASCAR will fold if the Army no longer sponsors?
but, most importantly, do you REALLY think that’s a good use of your tax dollars?
Misty Fyed
February 22nd, 2011
8:26 am
Barking frog. You can start a war with words like that.
Bob
February 22nd, 2011
8:26 am
USinUK, Let people buy what they want. I had a 10K deductable that worked out fine for years. People don’t want health insurance anyway, they want a healthcare payment plan. Insurance was for the unexpected, now it’s to cover runny noses.
Granny Godzilla
February 22nd, 2011
8:26 am
Barking frog
Interesting thought…..save alot of $$$$$$
Finn McCool
February 22nd, 2011
8:27 am
I’m all for bait’s rights! Worms are people too.
Oh, wait…
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:27 am
“Doggone, I am fairly certain I was not addressing you – unless you happened to be the author of this blog. No? I didn’t think so. In other words dear – put a sock in it.”
sounds like someone doesn’t quite understand the rules of blogging.
if you post it on a board such as this one, it’s open to ANYone responding.
if it’s just for Jay’s eyes, only, he includes a linkee to his e-mail on the right.
USMC dawg
February 22nd, 2011
8:28 am
Obama’s White House Chief Of Staff Gets Nearly $9 Million Pay Day:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/21/william-daley-pay_n_825899.html
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:29 am
“People don’t want health insurance anyway, they want a healthcare payment plan. Insurance was for the unexpected, now it’s to cover runny noses”
yeah – because 1) drugs have gotten too frickin’ expensive and 2) doctor’s visits have gotten too frickin’ expensive
Dave R.
February 22nd, 2011
8:29 am
“sorry, after their attack on PP, I’ve lost whatever last shred of compassion I had for those half-wits”
Someone was attacking whizzing?
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 22nd, 2011
8:29 am
Jay:
A couple of points:
1) You are correct …….. they can’t have it both ways.
2) The 10th Amendment should be honored.
3) If states become too harsh on malpractice, all the doctors will move to another state that isn’t and then the former state will wake up and change “their” law. That’s just the way it works.
4) All of that said, the oligarchy driven Supreme Court will still invoke the “commerce clause” any time they want to even if it’s the air you breath from state to state. They have done it before to the point of utter rediculousness in order to have a political outcome out the way they want.
barking frog
February 22nd, 2011
8:29 am
Say one thing, Do anything Politicians are nothing new.
USMC dawg
February 22nd, 2011
8:29 am
Detroit Ordered To Close Half Of City’s Schools:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/21/detroit-schools-closing_n_826007.html
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 22nd, 2011
8:30 am
Don’t worry, that law will not get passed once the TPers hear about the tie in with the Commerce clause.
Normal
Can’t get it to pull up now, but I’ll check it out later..
Normal
February 22nd, 2011
8:30 am
I must confess ignorance here so let me ask this. Is this “States Rights” thing just about health care or about all things?
And if it is about all things and was in place during Katrina, would there have been no “You’re going a heck of a job, Brownie”, because the crisis would have belonged solely to the States involved?
If a state doesn’t want federal interference or money so that they can go their own way, how do they expect to support the people of the State during times of crisis (not to mention education and such), if they continuously preach tax cuts and corporate give aways? Some one please school me.
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:32 am
Dave – I never really got that term … I know mine never makes that sound …
just sayin
stands for decibels
February 22nd, 2011
8:33 am
sounds like someone doesn’t quite understand the rules of blogging.
a guy so clueless as to proudly call himself “Mystery Meat” is undoubtedly not aware of All Internet Traditions.
JKL2
February 22nd, 2011
8:33 am
barking frog- Now we need to look at whether we need States at all.
Government works best when pushed down to the lowest level. You’re argument is one of the prime reasons our country is in the sad shape it’s in. To quote Ronnie, “The government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem.”
Normal
February 22nd, 2011
8:33 am
Finn,
Does Bait’s Rights include sushi?
USMC dawg
February 22nd, 2011
8:33 am
Illinois DEMOCRATIC Governor slashes ALL state funding for drug and alcohol abuse treatment in massive CUTS program:
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359098/Tens-thousands-hit-Illinois-cuts-funding-drug-treatment-programmes.html#ixzz1Eh72HfT5
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359098/Tens-thousands-hit-Illinois-cuts-funding-drug-treatment-programmes.html
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:33 am
dB – 8:33 – well, I guess we’re just blessed that he’s here at all.
Dave R.
February 22nd, 2011
8:34 am
just sayin”
Boy, could THIS degenerate into something really disgusting if allowed to continue . . .
AmVet's Mystery Meat
February 22nd, 2011
8:34 am
Same goes to you USinUK
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:35 am
USMC – so, are we to assume you think this is a bad thing?
Eric
February 22nd, 2011
8:36 am
Good research here, Jay. I’d like to hear from Mr. Gingrey about his discrepancy.
Dave R.
February 22nd, 2011
8:36 am
You know things are bad at the Bookman office. Usually he copies CT or she, him.
Today he’s just copying his own work of last week.
Could “states rights” be Jay’s new “Palin”?
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
8:36 am
” In other words dear – put a sock in it.”
This is an open forum, anyone here is free to comment on any other post. If you can’t deal with that, there are other, stricter, blogs where you might be happier. Or you an start your own and have your own rules.
barking frog
February 22nd, 2011
8:37 am
JKL2 8:33 No states would be less government. What’s wrong
with U. S. Counties ?
SOUTHERN ATL
February 22nd, 2011
8:38 am
I wonder how our former Insurance Commissioner (John Oxendine) feels about these changes???
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
8:38 am
“To quote Ronnie, “The government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem.” ”
That is not an argument for pushing it down to the lowest level…that is an argument for ELIMINATING it altogether.
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 22nd, 2011
8:39 am
“sorry, after their attack on PP, I’ve lost whatever last shred of compassion I had for those half-wits”
Someone was attacking whizzing?
Glad to know that I wasn’t the only one thinking that.
JKL2
February 22nd, 2011
8:39 am
USinUK- doctor’s visits have gotten too frickin’ expensive
My doctor gets reimbursed $4 for an office visit by the government. That’s why he has to charge $75 to everyone else.
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:40 am
jkl – so, does that mean you’re endorsing government-subsidized health care?
Paul
February 22nd, 2011
8:41 am
USMC Dawg
“Obama’s White House Chief Of Staff Gets Nearly $9 Million Pay Day:”
Wealth envy from the Right?
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 22nd, 2011
8:42 am
Obama’s White House Chief Of Staff Gets Nearly $9 Million Pay Day:
Looks like somebody’s got a case of the WEALTH ENVIES!!!!!!!!!
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 22nd, 2011
8:43 am
Iranian warships enter Suez Canal
CAIRO (AP) – “Suez Canal officials say two Iranian naval vessels have entered the strategic waterway en route for the Mediterranean Sea.
Canal officials say the ships – a frigate and a supply vessel – entered the canal early Tuesday morning and are expected to reach the Mediterranean later in the day. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they aren’t authorized to speak publicly about the matter.”
The Iranians are actually taking a big, big risk here that one or both of these ships companies might “go rogue”, dock somewhere and the crews claim political assylum.
AmVet's Mystery Meat
February 22nd, 2011
8:43 am
@US/UK and your girlfriend stands for decimated
Your responses show what kind of mind you really have. Defending the same talking points day after day after day makes you dull girls.
The snarky comments from the regulars do nothing for your conversation, because it shows your true colors right from the get go. It is indeed sad.
Oh well, as you’ve stated many times before, there are other places to go. No big loss.
JKL2
February 22nd, 2011
8:45 am
barking frog- What’s wrong with U. S. Counties ?
What’s wrong with the federal government doing what it was designed to do instead of trying to run every aspect of our lives? Government was designed to work at the lowest levels. Now everyone wants to give all the power to the feds (most of whom are out of control already). You’re actually advocating the “one size fits all” philosophy that will make things worse instead of better.
stands for decibels
February 22nd, 2011
8:46 am
No states would be less government.
Yep. During my reign of benevolent dictatorship, I’d consolidate at least seven of the states with less than a million inhabitants. You guys have had a hundred-plus years to get people to actually want to live in your state, and you’ve failed. Sorry, Alaska, you’re part of Washington State now. Sorry, Vermont (and hey, Bernie, you can run for Senator again, you’ll win…)
And whose bright idea was it to have two freaking Dakotas?
anyway, speaking of whizzing, doodie calls. Later, everyone.
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:47 am
“assylum”
now, THAT is a freudian slip!
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:48 am
“Oh well, as you’ve stated many times before, there are other places to go. No big loss.”
don’t let the door hit ya.
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
8:48 am
“And whose bright idea was it to have two freaking Dakotas?”
Or 2 Carolinas, or 2 Virginias!
Normal
February 22nd, 2011
8:48 am
Did AMM pout and go home just now? Boo Hoo
Oh well, on to other stuff…
Seriously folks, my 0830. I would like an answer…Ol’ Normal ain’t the brightest bulb in the chandelier, don’t cha know
barking frog
February 22nd, 2011
8:50 am
JKL2 Like the congressmen you want less government ?
But..less government means that the states should get
bigger. We can easily do without States but we cannot
do without the Federal Government. If you want less
government you must cut somewhere..
JKL2
February 22nd, 2011
8:51 am
USinUK- so, does that mean you’re endorsing government-subsidized health care?
NO. It’s an example of why everything costs so much (for anyone who can actually pay for their own services). If he had to rely on the government he would be in another profession. I would rather have him charge $15 to everyone and actually get paid $15 for everyone he saw.
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
8:51 am
“And if it is about all things and was in place during Katrina, would there have been no “You’re going a heck of a job, Brownie”, because the crisis would have belonged solely to the States involved?”
My sister tried to make that argument, that it was a state problem…but it isn’t. There are Federal highways involved, other Federal facilities…and bottom-line, New Orleans is a national seaport, not just a local one.
TaxPayer
February 22nd, 2011
8:52 am
Evidence from the states indicates that premiums for malpractice insurance are lower when tort liability is restricted than they would be otherwise. But even large savings in premiums can have only a small direct impact on health care spending–private or governmental–because malpractice costs account for less than 2 percent of that spending.
Tart reform is the only way to really reduce healthcare cost because if doctors such as Gingrey could not hire good looking nurses and assistants to distract them while working, they could not make as many mistakes.
Granny Godzilla
February 22nd, 2011
8:54 am
How about Georgabama or Louisissippi?
Money savings jumping out all over the place.
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
8:55 am
“How about Georgabama or Louisissippi?”
But why stop even there? Keep going, make the whole country just one great big state, and we only need one government for everyone!
Paul
February 22nd, 2011
8:56 am
Normal
“Seriously folks, my 0830. I would like an answer…”
Does Bait’s Rights include sushi?
Not if you’ve got a hot date at a Japanese restaurant…..
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:56 am
“NO. It’s an example of why everything costs so much ”
okay, I’m going to need for you to expand on that one. The government PAYS him $4/visit, so he HAS to charge $75???
JKL2
February 22nd, 2011
8:56 am
barking frog- We can easily do without States but we cannot
do without the Federal Government
I see freedom is lost on you. Just go sit on your couch, turn on CNN, and start waving your flag. Nothing to worry about. Papa obama will take care of all.
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
8:57 am
Doggone – I dunno – Louisiannessee seems to work well – Memphis and NO all in the same state!
barking frog
February 22nd, 2011
8:58 am
No states would mean kids college tuition bills would not
be inflated just because they chose to cross an imaginary
line to attend school.
Del
February 22nd, 2011
8:58 am
Looks like trial lawyers wrote the topic for this thread.
Bosch
February 22nd, 2011
9:00 am
So, I see the wingnuts are not addressing the issue — the hypocrisy of their own and instead deciding who can and can not use the phrase “moral.”
Okay.
And a grown man who calls people “punkin” is just wrong.
Granny Godzilla
February 22nd, 2011
9:00 am
Ok, where I live with have city police, county sheriffs, state patrol and some pretty mean librarians…..
can’t we just have one “force”?
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
9:01 am
“No states would mean kids college tuition bills would not
be inflated just because they chose to cross an imaginary
line to attend school”
And there would be no need for the Commerce clause, because all commerce would be intrastate
barking frog
February 22nd, 2011
9:01 am
JKL2, Under what color of sky does having a State Government
give you more freedom?
TaxPayer
February 22nd, 2011
9:02 am
Despite what Republicans want to believe, making malpractice lawsuits disappear doesn’t make the health care costs of medical errors go away. It simply means that it’s just not the wrongdoers who pay for them.
Oh, and as a side note: Gingrey doesn’t seem to be paying much attention to the affairs in his home state. In 2005, Georgia passed a cap on malpractice damages much like the one Gingrey would like to impose on the whole country. Last year, in a 7-0 decision, the Georgia Supreme Court threw out the law, calling it a huge violation to the constitutional right to a jury trial, and one that infringed on the separation of powers.
JKL2
February 22nd, 2011
9:02 am
USinUK- The government PAYS him $4/visit, so he HAS to charge $75???
The only way he can keep his practice open is because patients willing to pay $75 cash for an office visit subsidizes all his welfare patients. He still bills the government $75, they just pay him $4 and call it even.
Bosch
February 22nd, 2011
9:02 am
“Under what color of sky does having a State Government
give you more freedom?”
frog, seriously, it’s OBVIOUSLY under the RED sky.
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
9:03 am
“where I live with have city police, county sheriffs, state patrol and some pretty mean librarians”
Consider yourself lucky, Gwinnett has *4* law enforcement agencies:
County Sheriff
County Constable
County Police
State Patrol
Paul
February 22nd, 2011
9:03 am
USMC Dawg
““NO. It’s an example of why everything costs so much ”
okay, I’m going to need for you to expand on that one. The government PAYS him $4/visit, so he HAS to charge $75???”
My sis is a teacher near Houston. Everyone in the district – teachers, bus drivers, janitors – has the same health insurance, with various options. It’s in the literature – you pick a high-deductible policy, the office call will be $250. That’s just the office call. It’s how the companies negotiate with the providers.
Just another example of people with no insurance who pay their own costs or those with high deductibles subsidize/cover the real costs/pay the way for those with cadillac plans. The doctors are going to make up their costs from those who haven’t the leverage to negotiate markdowns.
Bosch
February 22nd, 2011
9:03 am
What is a constable?
TaxPayer
February 22nd, 2011
9:04 am
At least JKL2 does not think of Obama as his Messiah, just his papa.
Adam
February 22nd, 2011
9:04 am
Hold on, didn’t you post this exact same article before?
Bosch
February 22nd, 2011
9:04 am
AND PAUL WINS WITH THE 9:03!!!!!!
Granny Godzilla
February 22nd, 2011
9:05 am
Bosch
a law enforcement officer who ate way too much cheese
Bosch
February 22nd, 2011
9:06 am
Hi Mrs. G!!
That sounds so “Andy Griffith” — the local “constable” — really?
barking frog
February 22nd, 2011
9:07 am
“and all subdivisions of the American Nation shall consist of
the several Counties”….that would make a good Deal of Georgia
and the rest
Paul
February 22nd, 2011
9:08 am
JKL2
“The only way he can keep his practice open is because patients willing to pay $75 cash for an office visit subsidizes all his welfare patients. He still bills the government $75, they just pay him $4 and call it even.”
Many other programs are linked to gov’t rates. So military, Medicare, Medicaid all fall into the welfare patient category, also.
Bosch
February 22nd, 2011
9:08 am
“So military, Medicare, Medicaid all fall into the welfare patient category, also.”
Oh, Paul, NOW you’ve gone and done it.
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
9:09 am
“He still bills the government $75, they just pay him $4 and call it even.”
you are obviously under the mistaken impression that insurance companies don’t do the same.
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
9:10 am
Bosch – 9:06 – the mister never saw Andy Griffith until he moved to the states when we were a-courtin’ … he la-la-LOVES that show!
Bosch
February 22nd, 2011
9:10 am
“Federal cuts might hurt local programs”
So?
http://www.ajc.com/news/federal-cuts-might-hurt-848060.html
How’d y’all like my wingnut impression?
barking frog
February 22nd, 2011
9:11 am
Bosch 9:02 Red Sky at morning, sailor take warning.
Red sky at night, Sailors delight. Good benefits, bad burdens.
I’ll take the good benefits…
Paul
February 22nd, 2011
9:11 am
Hey Bosch
I like Granny’s answer, but I’m going with – an elected official, law enforcement type, wants to be a cop, usually has duties that are specified to deliver court documents, but local governments give the constable a ton of money so he can buy cars and hire people and go around and write traffic tickets so the local tax coffers fill up… I mean, so they can assist real cops in crime prevention….
Dave R.
February 22nd, 2011
9:13 am
While not admitting to your term “wingnut”, Bosch, Ill say two things about this issue.
First, if the libs hadn’t already made this issue one of Federal scope with last year’s (and hopefully soon to be struck down) health care reform, there would be no need for the grownups now in charge in the House to fix it at the Federal level.
Next, to counter Taxpayers sorry (as usual) attempt to deflect the REAL costs, while malpractice INSURANCE costs amount to about 3% of the cost of providing health care, it is estimated that the cost of excessive tests to AVOID potential lawsuits contributes nearly 30% to the cost of our health care.
At the risk of sounding like a 6 year-old: “You libs started it”!
Bosch
February 22nd, 2011
9:13 am
Paul,
OHHHHH, okay, got cha. So, will the constable be the one who’ll go out and arrest people when they don’t buy health insurance in a few years?
Paul
February 22nd, 2011
9:13 am
Bosch
“Paul, NOW you’ve gone and done it.”
I try. SoCom said I was a slacker and he was going to revoke my EOI card -
Bosch
February 22nd, 2011
9:15 am
Dave R.,
OOOHHHHH, okay, so it’s ALL the liberals fault….
Got it.
Doggone/GA
February 22nd, 2011
9:16 am
“So, will the constable be the one who’ll go out and arrest people when they don’t buy health insurance in a few years?”
No, of course not. We’ll have to have a whole new Federal department of “Healthcare Enforcement” and the officers will be ENFORCERS!
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
9:16 am
Bosch – 9:15 – that’s their story and they’re stickin with it.
barking frog
February 22nd, 2011
9:17 am
States were invented by the federal government and legislated
into existence to replace colonies established by the King. They
have outlived their usefulness and need to be legislated away.
Paul
February 22nd, 2011
9:17 am
Bosch
“So, will the constable be the one who’ll go out and arrest people when they don’t buy health insurance in a few years?”
Well, that’d be a federal issue, but my guess is the constables’ll figure out a way to get augmented to the team so they can put on bullet-proof vests and ride in helicopters and get those cool wrap-around sunglasses for free.
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
9:17 am
doggone – 9:16 – one day, they all hope to be promoted to the DEATH PANELS
Dave R.
February 22nd, 2011
9:17 am
Sometimes constables are also referred to as “marshals”.
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
9:18 am
barking – but … but … but … what cliches would the media use on election night if they can use red state / blue state???
red blob / blue blob?
USinUK
February 22nd, 2011
9:18 am
at least, with the demolition of states, we’d have to get rid of the gawd-awful ELECTORAL COLLEGE!!!
one person, one vote!!!
Normal
February 22nd, 2011
9:18 am
Oh well,
I gotta go. Guess I won’t get schooled today…Have a good one.
Jay
February 22nd, 2011
9:19 am
Just as a note, I published this revised version of a earlier post to serve as the electronic version of today’s AJC column. Fresh sheets upstairs now.
Bosch
February 22nd, 2011
9:21 am
“but my guess is the constables’ll figure out a way to get augmented to the team so they can put on bullet-proof vests and ride in helicopters and get those cool wrap-around sunglasses for fre”
Oooooo…. I wanna be a constable.
Normal
February 22nd, 2011
9:21 am
Before I go, Barking frogs idea sure would simplify government, wouldn’t it? King and Queen Obama and their High Court. Really gone now…Meetings! UGH!!!
barking frog
February 22nd, 2011
9:24 am
USinUK A reasoned examination of restructured government
without States reveals many benefits and the media can count
counties because only they would count as red and blue and
would provide enlargement of tote boards and blinking lights.
Dave R.
February 22nd, 2011
9:27 am
Bosch: “OOOHHHHH, okay, so it’s ALL the liberals fault….
Got it.”
Finally! As we used to say in Massachusetts, “Light dawns on Marble Head”!
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 22nd, 2011
9:35 am
I try. SoCom said I was a slacker and he was going to revoke my EOI card
And I’m still watching you and evaluating all the time.
@@
February 22nd, 2011
9:59 am
Did Gohmert and Poe, both Republicans from Texas, oppose the law? Last I heard, they were in agreement with you, jay. Imagine THAT…Poe, a member of the Tea Party Caucus was in agreement with YOU.
That must make YOU a RADICAL NUTJOB!!!!!
Jay
February 22nd, 2011
10:02 am
Poe and Gohmert did oppose the bill, @@, but magically, both somehow managed to miss the committee meeting in which it was voted on and approved.
Funny how that happens.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 22nd, 2011
10:38 am
OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM
“So, with all the kindness I can muster, I give this one piece of advice to the next pop star who is asked to sing the national anthem at a sporting event: save the vocal gymnastics and the physical gyrations for your concerts. Just sing this song the way you were taught to sing it in kindergarten — straight up, no styling. Sing it with the constant awareness that there are soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines watching you from bases and outposts all over the world. Don’t make them cringe with your self-centered ego gratification. Sing it as if you are standing before a row of 86-year-old WWII vets wearing their Purple Hearts, Silver Stars and flag pins on their cardigans and you want them to be proud of you for honoring them and the country they love — not because you want them to think you are a superstar musician. They could see that from the costumes, the makeup and the entourages. Sing “The Star Spangled Banner” with the courtesy and humility that tells the audience that it is about America, not you.”
Mark Corallo
http://www.lifeafter50.com/Lifestyles/Leisure/THE-NATIONAL-ANTHEM-ISN-T-A-POP-SONG
Jack Nine Offsuit
February 22nd, 2011
10:43 am
“But you gotta let the health insurance companies compete across state lines”
That sounds good on the surface, but in reality it won’t help a bit. The health insurance companies would just do the same thing that all the credit card companies have done—they’d all relocate to the state that has the least amount of insurance regulation/oversight and the so-called “competition” between them all to set lower rates would be a farce.
Jack Nine Offsuit
February 22nd, 2011
10:54 am
Excellent article Jay. No true conservative should support caps on malpractice lawsuits. Wasn’t it just recently that Repubs were saying that the litmus test they would use for any new law was that it should 1) decrease gov’t size or intrusion in our lives; and 2) increase personal responsibility????
Caps on medical malpractice lawsuits do neither–in fact they promote the exact opposite. 1) Caps are arbitrarily set by the gov’t and are essentially the gov’t telling juries (i.e., citizens) that “we know what’s right and you don’t” even though the jury has heard all the facts and evidence and the gov’t hasn’t. 2) Caps decrease the personal responsibility of the medical providers that have negligently/recklessly harmed one of their patients. When you set arbitrary caps you are saying that wrongdoers should not be held fully accountable for the harm they have done. How is that consistent with conservative values?
If you say you are against frivilous lawsuits then pass laws that actually target frivilous lawsuits. Laws that impose caps on damages are designed to target the most worthy and meritorious lawsuits by “keeping the numbers low” on cases where the medical providers have screwed up the worst and done the most severe harm to their patients. And that’s just shameful.
buck@gon
February 22nd, 2011
4:35 pm
Jay,
You posted this last week, as you say. You are repeating yourself. Are you going to post this same stuff next week too?
Why?
Jay
February 22nd, 2011
4:49 pm
Buck, the opening paragraph gives you your answer. But of course, some people don’t read that far….
Lil' Barry Bailout
February 22nd, 2011
10:41 pm
Jay still isn’t posting an explanation from our representatives as to the constitutional basis for their votes?
Still lame, Jay, still lame. Where is your intellectual curiosity?
stevie b
February 22nd, 2011
10:47 pm
Great piece, Jay. It shows the virulent hypocrisy of these men we somehow elected to Congress. BTW, studies have consistently demonstrated that capping awards has done nothing to reduce malpractice insurance rates in those states where they have been instituted. Bad doctors are still bad. And often right-wing nutcases.
Tweets that mention The infidelity of states’ rights proponents | Jay Bookman -- Topsy.com
February 24th, 2011
11:29 pm
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