In Wisconsin battle, it’s not about the budget
You still can’t find a single Democratic state senator in the entire state of Wisconsin. All 14 of them remain in self-imposed exile in Illinois, and as long as they stay there, they can continue to prevent passage of a highly controversial bill that would sharply reduce benefits for teachers and other government employees and, more importantly, gut public labor unions.
It’s that second aspect of the bill that has drawn national and even international attention. As the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reports:
The bill would require most public workers to pay half their pension costs – typically 5.8% of pay for state workers – and in many cases at least 12% of their health care costs. Union leaders have said they are willing to accept those concessions, which total nearly $330 million through June 2013.
Under the bill, the unions could not bargain over anything but wages, would have to hold annual elections to keep their organizations intact and would lose the ability to have union dues deducted from state paychecks. Employees would no longer have to automatically pay union dues, but could choose whether they want to do so.
In other words, the unions are willing to swallow the economic demands. If givebacks are necessary to help balance the state budget in a time of crisis, the employees say they’re willing to do their part.
However, Gov. Scott Walker has refused to accept that offer and also refuses to negotiate with labor or Democrats. He doesn’t see this merely as a chance to win an important battle against organized labor; he sees it as an opportunity to win the entire war, forever, by stripping state unions of most of their power and influence. And if he succeeds, the implications for the labor movement nationwide would be profound.
At the moment, only five states prohibit collective bargaining by teachers and other public employees, as the map below demonstrates. Georgia is one of the five. (Note: The right to bargain collectively does not imply the legal right to strike in many states.)
Teachers unions in particular have long been a favorite target of conservatives, with a lot of people blaming unions for poor classroom performance. So the map above made me curious: How does the ability of teachers to form unions and bargain collectively correlate to classroom performance? If strong teachers unions truly do hamper education, the five states that ban collective bargaining by teachers ought to rank fairly high in educational performance.
Here are the numbers for the five states in question, plus Wisconsin, on the National Assessment of Educational Progress, given annually across the nation to fourth and eighth graders.
Texas, North Carolina and Virginia are roughly at the national average. Georgia and South Carolina trail in most categories. Wisconsin does very well.
Here are the state rankings for average SAT scores for the six states in question:
Wisconsin 2
Virginia 33
North Carolina 39
Texas 45
Georgia 47
South Carolina 48
The numbers above might be a little misleading, given that most Wisconsin seniors take the ACT rather than the SAT. Then again, Wisconsin ranks second on the ACT as well.
– Jay Bookman
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618 comments Add your comment
Confused
February 21st, 2011
12:41 pm
I beg my conservative brethen to not lose sight of the facts that led to the most recent financial ruin since the great depression and latch onto the daily blowhards on talk radio who do not have your best interest in mind and try to distort, deflect and cast blame on the powerless, the poor, unions, gays, illegal immigrants, and people who bought homes but couldn’t afford them and you rush out and fling yourselves back into the arms of the lover who spurned you. You’re angry and have every right to your anger, but do not fight while blindfolded. And for the history revionists/Bush apologists can you say “Curveball”?
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2011
12:41 pm
“what cracks me up about this mess is the fact that politicians are pointing fingers at “unions”. ”
and what is even more amusing is that they shot even THAT in the foot by exempting the unions that supported Walker’s campaign for governor.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
February 21st, 2011
12:43 pm
@Left Wing Management
So if the unions would still be able to bargain for wages, what other areas do you think are so important that they need to be collectively bargained for??
In what way does the bill attack the life and blood of unions.
Please give specifics on what the bill actually is taking away from the unions.
Left wing management
February 21st, 2011
12:43 pm
Joe Plutocrat: “make EVERY teacher on the public payroll a non-emplyee “contractor” and pay them $25/hour ($52,000/year)”
Is that counting summer?
MiltonMan
February 21st, 2011
12:45 pm
Jay, please look at the schools in North Fulton & compare them to Wisconsin pal. The reason that GA scores are so low is that we have to include the liberals located in the APS, DeKalb, Clayton, etc.
John Birch
February 21st, 2011
12:45 pm
What a ridiculous argument. You will get a much higher coefficent of correlation if you compare those average test scores to the percentage of African American test takers, student-teacher ratios, or about a dozen other factors. The real issue is Obama and the Dems love the unions, minorities and ambulance chasers because those are their constiuents, a republican governor and legislateure, not so much. If they were Dems gutting free enterprise you could then show how ending capitalism results in being 2nd in the nation in SAT scores!
dw
February 21st, 2011
12:46 pm
nice job of misreading statistics sir bookman.
unions can help eduators have good pay, working conditions, protection from whatever, but
unions do have the problem of forcing schools to keep tenured, but long since worthless
teachers in place. i have children that have been schooled in both union and non-union
states and have found excellent and poor in both. but the fact that unionization kept some
truely lousy teachers in place is totally true and a fact that i have seen.
RGB
February 21st, 2011
12:46 pm
What is the quality of education in Wisconsin classrooms when the teachers lie and call in sick?
Correlate that with the existence of a teacher’s union.
And what can one of the lying teachers tell a student who presents a similar falsified “excuse” in order to miss an exam or just play hooky?
Southern Comfort (B.P.O.I.B.W.)
February 21st, 2011
12:47 pm
Unions in the private sector regulate themselves, either they moderate their demands or put themselves out of a job, like the UAW or the Steel workers.
Pure Bullsh*t…. Steel Workers got put out of work due to cheap ass imports with no tarriffs because investors and stuff wanted free trade agreements. Don’t try to blame that on unions. No way in hell you’d work in a foundry for $2 a day, so don’t ask somebody else to do it.
MiltonMan
February 21st, 2011
12:47 pm
How about the feds getting out altogether from education? The feds are currently only good at 2 things – Defense (some liberals think we spend too much) & interstate transportation (even though AmTrack is garbage).
saywhat?
February 21st, 2011
12:48 pm
Why all the wealth envy by the republicans over public service workers?Why aim wealth envy at people making on average less than 70,000 per year?
It would seem that if the public service workers have it so much better than people in the private sector, the sensible thing to do would be to seek to raise the standard of living for people in the private sector.Why would you instead try to pull down those people are doing alright, to the level of those who are not? Does misery really love company that much? Is this how bitter the people clinging to their guns and religion have become? What sad little people.
NIght Train
February 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
SoCo wrote “Think of it this way… A union, such as a teacher’s union, is a organization of professionals working in the same profession who group together to try to help shape and influence their profession. ”
That’s a good one. Who runs the teachers union? Not a teacher. Every union I’ve been involved with has professional union employees to run the ‘union’. A teacher might be brought in to tell the union what they want, they might even let a teacher sit in during the negotiations (but not to talk) then the union adds what they want and then the union goes to the bargaining table.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
“How about the feds getting out altogether from education?”
The Feds aren’t even IN this fight.
MiltonMan
February 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
Do the Chinese have unions? They seem to be kicking our rear-ends in just about everything these days including 10x more engineers & scientists.
Outside the Perimeter
February 21st, 2011
12:49 pm
Of course, there can’t be another look at the Wisconsin mess now can there be?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcDnKQul_c8&feature=player_embedded#at=94
saywhat?
February 21st, 2011
12:50 pm
RGB- the teachers are sick , sick of scum like their governor.
getalife
February 21st, 2011
12:51 pm
First they came for our unions.
I don’t think we should wait like the Germans.
Now is the time to take our country back from fascism.
AmVet
February 21st, 2011
12:52 pm
Uncle Miltie, don’t be timid!
Come right out and say it…
And can ANY of you cons read?
It is you cons who spout Teachers unions in particular have long been a favorite target of conservatives, with a lot of people blaming unions for poor classroom performance.
YOU are the ones who contend that there is a direct correlation.
Our host simply showed one piece of evidence that appears to countermand that.
Again, reading comprehension is not one of your innumerable enemies…
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2011
12:53 pm
Yes gealife,
The Taxpayers need to step up.
People should not have to pay for health care or pension!
FREEEEEEDOM!
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2011
12:53 pm
“Again, reading comprehension is not one of your innumerable enemies”
or talents
Left wing management
February 21st, 2011
12:54 pm
Woodstock Mike:
It’s all about context. We’re three years into a massive recession brought on by reckless and in many cases criminal Wall Street excess and so far the only high-profile case of someone going to jail is Bernie Madoff. Yet Scott Walker is part of a movement that wants us to believe that we’re “broke”, that our problems are a result of over-spending and supposedly over-lucrative public employees. This is an outrageous attempt at misdirection.
So, to answer your question, anything that categorically limits what public workers can bargain on is an attempt to perpetuate the idea that our current woes are about a lack of money and overpaid public workers. Which is a lie. We have plenty of money, it’s just that it’s going to the financiers and corporations. It needs to be taken back.
Left wing management
February 21st, 2011
12:56 pm
saywhat? Why all the wealth envy by the republicans over public service workers? … It would seem that if the public service workers have it so much better than people in the private sector, the sensible thing to do would be to seek to raise the standard of living for people in the private sector ..”
Bingo!
John Birch
February 21st, 2011
1:02 pm
left wing – Please tell me why government employees are entitled to better taxpayer financed benefits than the average worker?
getalife
February 21st, 2011
1:03 pm
moonbat fascist,
The first thing the na zis did was dissolve the unions.
Lets get our country back from fascism.
Joe the Plutocrat
February 21st, 2011
1:03 pm
John @12:36, your question makes sense (why do public employees need a union?), but only in a utopian tea party world. it’s not a stretch to consider the “inefficiency” or financial burden of CBAs between state agencies and public sector unions, but as I argued earlier, why specifical isolate (blame) the teachers’ union? every spending decision or budget ever signed or vetoed in Madison (andy government) was “negotiated” or the byproduct of “collective bargaining” between the legislature (Dems and Reps) and whatver “special interest” (lobbyists) advocated or opposed it. when Miller Brewing wants to build a new plant, or move to a larger HQ, or when a NBA. NFL, or MLB franchise needs a new (taxpayer funded) home, these special interest retain lobbyists to “bargain” with the legislature. the idea that the financial woes of the State of Wisconsin will be addressed resolved by denying teachers CBA rights is a pathetic attempt on the part of the GOP to conscript some of the tea party momentum of 2010. it’s a political card trick and not a “bottom line” driven ‘tough decision’.
Jenzen
February 21st, 2011
1:04 pm
This is how a peaceful protest should look like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEq-wj4_W7o
Thank God, these protesters don’t carry offensive signs like to idiot Tea-Partiers do!!
Tweets that mention In Wisconsin battle, it’s not about the budget | Jay Bookman -- Topsy.com
February 21st, 2011
1:04 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Ricky, NC_Policy_Watch. NC_Policy_Watch said: @UNCSouth got the info from AJC http://bit.ly/hreKHU might not be *all, but according to graphic, TX, GA, SC also have bans [...]
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:06 pm
SoCo 12:47 – point was, in a business, there’s a cap to how much you can pay people because profits get crimped and eventually a company can go out of business.
Since, in government, there is no market regulator on “profits” or revenue, revenue can just be increased until workers pay is out of line with market. (until people revolt, like now, thank you Tea Party)
All unions are corrupt, but public employee unions are the worst.
jt
February 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
2012 DREAM TEAM
Ron Paul President
Joe Wilson Vice
Judge Napolitano DOJ
Governor Scott Walker Director Department of Human Resources
Rand Paul Treasurer
Ted Nugent DHS
Peeeerfect.
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:09 pm
BTW, what happens if the Scaredycrats in Wisconsin don’t come back? Seems they should forfeit their office. Crazy crap…. but what I think is irrelevant. This is so bizarre (and morally corrupt), I doubt there’s a law on the books to deal with it.
Mick
February 21st, 2011
1:12 pm
**All unions are corrupt**
jm
Do you ever really think before you post? That’s a pretty general and sweeping statement. How about you, are you corrupt when posting on the job?
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:12 pm
Jay, also…
“In Wisconsin battle, it’s not about the budget ”
I just whole-heartedly disagree with this. It is about the budget. If it wasn’t, then the only thing they’d be passing are the (allegedly) “union-busting” provisions.
This is such garbage. Democrats are morally corrupt. Erskine Bowles is having a coronary over a crappy Dem President. Sam Nunn is probably taking Advil. B. Clinton himself is probably having misgivings.
Its sad when the Republican party is the one that looks responsible and ethical. You know the Dems have gone way down hill when we reach that stage.
fairness for all
February 21st, 2011
1:12 pm
Unions collect money from members then pass money on to elect politicians who the unions then “negotiate” with after the politicians become beholding to the unions so the members get more money and benefits from the taxpayers— anybody see anything wrong with that? The taxpayers haven’t got a prayer under that system and should be able to opt for a private school option in order to level the playing field and have a competitive system to government/union operated schools. glad to see N.J. and Pa. going after school superintendents salaries—they are obscene and clearly to point to what is wrong with allowing union bargaining in government situations….
JKL2
February 21st, 2011
1:13 pm
-You still can’t find a single Democratic state senator in the entire state of Wisconsin
Nothing says courage like running to hide. I wish I could find a job where I didn’t show up to work but yet could still get paid, charge my expenses encurred while not at work to my employer, and recieve national praise for not doing my job.
PS: It’s not the first time they’ve used the run and hide technique.
NIght Train
February 21st, 2011
1:13 pm
saywhat? wrote (and LWM seems to agree) “It would seem that if the public service workers have it so much better than people in the private sector, the sensible thing to do would be to seek to raise the standard of living for people in the private sector.”
Apples to oranges.
Public service workers get paid with taxpayers money. They want more money, taxes get raised.
Private sector workers get paid from the profits of the company they work for. They want more, then the employer must raise their prices. How far can they raise the price of their goods before people quit purchasing them?
Public workers seem to think there is a never ending supply of money.
Private sector workers know if you take too much you kill the money tree.
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:13 pm
Mick – “are you corrupt when posting on the job?”
A. Not if I get my job done.
B. Especially not when I’m working on a company holiday.
Joe the Plutocrat
February 21st, 2011
1:13 pm
Left Wing management, I stand corrected (blame my public school math teacher!), you are correct, it would be $1000/week x (let’s say) 40 weeks per year ($40,000).
DawgDad
February 21st, 2011
1:15 pm
Whether or not a Government entity allows collective bargaining should be a legislative decision of the particular government entity. The people of Wisconsin held an election and elected people who want to change the rules; they should be allowed to do so and the legislative process should not be obstructed by whiny loser leftist legislators.
I am not at all in favor of unionization in the public sector. This is supposed to be “public service”. Whether or not collective bargaining is allowed and to what extent should be a legislative decision; one approach may not serve the needs of all states or localities, or the Fed. But a government entity should NEVER forfeit its ability to modify the terms of employment; doing so is an abuse of public trust.
Mick
February 21st, 2011
1:15 pm
**ts sad when the Republican party is the one that looks responsible and ethical.**
Republicans look like fascists who only cater to the rich. The middle class morons who patronize the infamous koch brothers will catch on someday, hopefully before it’s too late..
Left wing management
February 21st, 2011
1:16 pm
John Birch “left wing – Please tell me why government employees are entitled to better taxpayer financed benefits than the average worker?”
Wrong question.
Why is it that only the financiers are entitled to taxpayer financed benefits?
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:16 pm
Second that DawgDad
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:18 pm
Gov Walker is being compared to Darth Vader. I guess that means he’s the good guy that will bring balance to the force.
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:20 pm
Those idiots comparing Walker to the Evil Empire must not have seen Episode 3 (or 6). Whatever.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2011
1:21 pm
“Unions collect money from members then pass money on to elect politicians who the unions then “negotiate” with after the politicians become beholding to the unions so the members get more money and benefits from the taxpayers— anybody see anything wrong with that?”
Yes…unions cannot use dues money for political purposes…so your basic premise is wrong.
Southern Comfort (B.P.O.I.B.W.)
February 21st, 2011
1:21 pm
Do the union supporters contend that without a union the government would trample their rights? I thought the government was the ultimate fair employer, no?
People are people, whether in public or private sector jobs. Neither is more or less corrupt than the other.
Left wing management
February 21st, 2011
1:21 pm
To jm: “all unions are corrupt”
As La Rochefoucauld said “Hypocrisy is the homage which vice pays to virtue”. And the same principle applies to unions. Corruption in unions is the “hommage” that vice plays to virtue. In other words, it’s a price we pay for the very possibility of virtue itself and therefore should be accepted as a necessary evil.
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
At the same time, Republican state officials said they wouldn’t wait any longer for Democrats who fled the state to stall legislation.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49893.html#ixzz1EcRLRI14
Awesome. Don’t know exactly what this means…. but I can guess.
MiltonMan
February 21st, 2011
1:22 pm
Jenzen – did you even view the video before you posted???
Wisconsin protestors are peaceful unlike the tea party folks???
Nothing like good old hate from these Wisconsin morons: Comparing the governor to hilter. Also, one poster had the bulls-eye with an image of the governor.
Weren’t the wussie democrtas complaining about cross hairs & that is what led to the AZ shootings??? Man, you democrats are bi-polar. Thank God you are a diminishing “entity” in this state.
Let’s not forget the former torch barrier of the democrats in this state – King Rat Roy Barnes. The fine democrat turned teachers in this state against him; only to have the clown crawl back begging for their votes.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2011
1:23 pm
” thought the government was the ultimate fair employer, no?”
If that was true, there would be no need for a union. It’s not true, so the unions are neccessary.
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:23 pm
Democratic National Committee quickly distanced itself Friday from reports that it was masterminding protests.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49893.html#ixzz1EcRZRIyt
Cause OFA is. This is a “lose” issue for Dems. They and the unions have made a huge mistake. Unions are vastly unpopular in the US….
MiltonMan
February 21st, 2011
1:23 pm
Unions did such a terrific job with the auto industry.
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:24 pm
LWM 1:21 – your kind of moral confusion is what has gotten our country into the toilet
moonbat betty
February 21st, 2011
1:25 pm
getalife,
Agreed.
Perhaps company cars, blackberries, and vouchers for Golden Corral should also be included in the bargaining agreement as well. I mean, people need to be able to get to work, communicate and eat dinner in order to work, right?
I hope obama will step in and correct this atrocity asap.
DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN!!
Normal
February 21st, 2011
1:26 pm
jm,
What you call “Scaredydcrats”, I call bravehearts. The Wisconsin Democrats are trying to prevent a political traversty and I salute them. Until the Republican Party can get off of its high horse and be reasonable men and women, those democrats are welcome at my house any time.
MPercy
February 21st, 2011
1:26 pm
Doggone/GA @9:59 am “could you identify and quote the union leaders who indicated that the membership is willing to “swallow the economic demands”? “[Someone] “said in a conference call with reporters that workers will do their fair share to narrow Wisconsin’s budget gap”
Forgive me if I cannot reconcile “do their fair share” spoken by a union leader with the term “swallow the economic demands”…
How about some more like “We the union will concede all point being requested by the government. We will pay the portion of our own pension funding as asked by our employer, the government. We will pay the portion of our own health care coverage premiums as asked by our employer, the government. However, we expect to retain the right to collective bargaining.”
That’s swallowing the economic demands…
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:26 pm
Bradley Tusk, a former Illinois deputy governor and New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg’s 2009 campaign manager, said that if Walker succeeds in the fight, “this will be portrayed as a major change toward fiscal sanity and protecting taxpayers.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49893.html#ixzz1EcSaaTTy
Because it is….
The Thin Guy
February 21st, 2011
1:27 pm
A few years back the Chicago public school teachers were on strike. A reporter asked one “What do you teach.” Her response was “I teaches English.” Labor unions are one of the main reasons for inflation and poor productivity in this country. Kudos to Wisconsin and their great governor.
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:28 pm
Go Wisconsin!
Granny Godzilla
February 21st, 2011
1:28 pm
jm
actually with the multiple protests going on all over the country I think will be a big win for Americans and the Democrats.
Hard to go wrong supporting the American working class.
ronald
February 21st, 2011
1:28 pm
Ronald said “If teachers are refusing to work, then take the revenue from their property taxes in those districts and re-apportioned that to other states ”
Doggone said “can’t be done. STATE taxes are not a federal tax.”
Doggone- You’re being trivial and didn’t really address the point at hand. The point is that taxpayers in Wisconsin are being levied property taxes to support their district’s school system. This is a city/county tax, not a federal tax as you indicate. In case you weren’t aware, public schools are largely funded locally. Wisconsin residents are paying property taxes to support their local system and the teachers are refusing to work (AGAIN THIS WEEK, who knows how long it will last), while the taxpayers kids are forced to stay at home because schools are closed. Why should the union retards receive a paycheck from taxpayers, while they aren’t working? Thats the next question that should be answered.
Joe the Plutocrat
February 21st, 2011
1:28 pm
jt, one correction ; ELIMINATE DHS
Mick
February 21st, 2011
1:29 pm
Just look at the numbers, the people don’t want unions abolished. Governor walker is on a power trip, pure and simple. What has he done? This type of republican fascist makes himself look like mubarak, nice going gov. great future ahead…
MPercy
February 21st, 2011
1:29 pm
“That man [Donald Rumsfeld] should be waterboarded and then made to publicly apologize to the American people for being such a grade A loser.”
So much for toning down the rhetoric. I see it’s OK for a leftist to advocate torture for conservative politician, but when the same politician advocates the same torture for suspected terrorists…call out the ACLU.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2011
1:31 pm
“You’re being trivial”
so it’s “trivial” to point out that property taxes collected by one state CANNOT BE “APPORTIONED” to another STATE? Have you looked up “trivial” in the dictionary lately?
Left wing management
February 21st, 2011
1:31 pm
NIght Train:
Re the “apples and oranges” of public workers vs. private. You’re missing the point here.
The whole point is that this entire debate is intended to white-wash the fact that the private workers’s own wages and benefits have been hemorrhaging since the 1970s. The debate we therefore should be having is not: How can be make public workers sacrifice like everyone else? but rather Just why is it that public wages/benefits have been increasingly looking better than their private counterparts? If the public were allowed to see that it’s because of union representation in the public sector then support for unions in general would likely start increasing, which of course is what the moneyed interests don’t want. Unfortunately for them though, Gov. Walker may have just overplayed their hand.
Normal
February 21st, 2011
1:31 pm
Mick
February 21st, 2011
1:29 pm
Yeah, too bad he can’t call out the Wisconsin National Guard to shoot down those nasty Middle Class Scum messin’ up his State…
Southern Comfort (B.P.O.I.B.W.)
February 21st, 2011
1:31 pm
That’s a good one. Who runs the teachers union? Not a teacher.
And I’m guessing the President of the US Chamber of Commerce operates a local drug store… LOL
Since, in government, there is no market regulator on “profits” or revenue, revenue can just be increased until workers pay is out of line with market.
There is no market regulator on “profits” or revenues because the government is not out to make a profit. The government is there to provide services. If it charges more than what the services cost, then cut the fees. Don’t try to blame government’s spending problems on workers, because payroll is not the big reason for government spending problems. I’d think with your sometimes level-headed thinking, even you’d see that. However, with your jaded “Unions are evil” glasses on, I know otherwise.
ronald
February 21st, 2011
1:32 pm
ronald said “Let them have 401ks like everyone else.”
Left Wing Management said “Turn off the Fox News and WGST and learn something for a change will ya.”
Another bumper sticker answer from a dumb liberal when confronted with a real question. Try again, Left Wing. This is a real question. Why should taxpayers provide a defined benefit pension plan for public school teachers when most taxpayers don’t have that benefit themselves?
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:32 pm
Granny 1:28 wrong. 58% of Independents view Unions unfavorably.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2011
1:32 pm
“Unfortunately for them though, Gov. Walker may have just overplayed their hand”
that’s how I see it too. He may end up winning this battle…and losing the war.
Kamchak
February 21st, 2011
1:32 pm
So, when a meth addicted narcissistic sociopath recommends it, it’s called going Galt, but when Democrat congress critters do it, it’s called “the run and hide” technique.
Got it.
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:33 pm
I think Obama just put the nail in his coffin.
ronald
February 21st, 2011
1:33 pm
And you can pretend that the unions have already agreed to the pension costs as outlined. But have you seen the signs of the protestors and the interviews they give? They are NOT all making the same point that Jay made regarding CB rights. They are very publically complaining about the increased cost of funding HALF of their pension. What the protestors are saying and what the union reps are saying are NOT the same thing.
Normal
February 21st, 2011
1:34 pm
ronald
February 21st, 2011
1:28 pm
I’d bet you a dollar to a doughnut that you would do the same thing if you found yourself in the same situation.
Granny Godzilla
February 21st, 2011
1:34 pm
MiltonMan
February 21st, 2011
1:23 pm
Unions did such a terrific job with the auto industry.
yep, those rascally decided to make huge gas guzzlers and leave the massive economy car market to the japanese ….OOPS…that was management that ran ‘em down the tubes.
I will say I think the unions did good work in creating child labor laws, which, by the way a GOP lawmaker out of Missouri wants to roll back.
isn’t that lovely….going from selling Girl Scout Cookies to running a ten ton press
MPercy
February 21st, 2011
1:35 pm
Doggone/GA @10:07 am “One of the missing Democratic state senators, Jon Erpenbach, said all state and local public employees — including teachers — have agreed to the financial aspects of Walker’s requested concessions on paying more for employee health care and pensions. “In return they ask only that the provisions that deny their right to collectively bargain are removed,” Erpenbach said. “This will solve the budget challenge.”
If this is so, I’m forced to retract part of my earlier comment @1:26.
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:35 pm
Kamchak 1:32 – guess you never read the book. Cause Galt wasn’t a legislator. There’s no requirement in this country to work. But when you’re elected to office, your job is to represent your voters. And Dems have abdicated that responsibility.
Democrats. The party of autocrats and corruption.
Kamchak
February 21st, 2011
1:36 pm
Kamchak 1:32 – guess you never read the book.
Then you guessed wrong.
eddy
February 21st, 2011
1:36 pm
Of course it is not about the unions, “IT is ’bout the chill’rins and the weckin’class peoples” Should fire them all and start over. I’m sure that there are teachers who would really like work and actually teach their students something rather than making them all “feel so good ’bout they selves. “
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2011
1:36 pm
“If this is so, I’m forced to retract part of my earlier comment @1:26″
As far as I know it is correct. It has been reported that way since at least Friday evening and no reports have surfaced since to say it is incorrect.
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:36 pm
Granny G – the truth hurts doesn’t it? Knowing 58% of Indies don’t like unions, meaning Dems are losing more independent moderate votes by the day. These guys are done, toast.
Incumbency is powerful, Obama may still win. But in a straight up fight, he’d lose.
ronald
February 21st, 2011
1:36 pm
Normal says “I’d bet you a dollar to a doughnut that you would do the same thing if you found yourself in the same situation.”
We’ll never know because I don’t enjoy the benefit of having taxpayers pay the lion’s share of my retirement benefits. I fund my retirement plan MYSELF without asking taxpayers to fund it for me.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2011
1:37 pm
“But when you’re elected to office, your job is to represent your voters. And Dems have abdicated that responsibility.”
and I would say they are doing an exceptionally GOOD JOB of that representation, by preventing the passage of a bad bill
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:37 pm
Kamchak 1:36 – well then I guess you didn’t pay attention when reading it. Cause Galt wasn’t a legislator. Or maybe your logic circuits don’t work….
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:39 pm
Doggone 1:37 – by not doing their job. Well, I guess you’ll be applauding Republicans if they decide not to pass a CR or a new budget, or raise the debt ceiling. Cause after all, they’re doing their job.
Your logic stinks Dog.
Granny Godzilla
February 21st, 2011
1:39 pm
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:32 pm
Granny 1:28 wrong. 58% of Independents view Unions unfavorably.
In wisconsin?
at this moment, nope
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:40 pm
Obama is out of touch…. clueless.
Something momentous is happening in the United States right now and Barack Obama doesn’t get it.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyharnden/100076929/american-way-barack-obama-cult-figure-of-2008-left-behind-by-new-anti-spending-zeitgeist/
MPercy
February 21st, 2011
1:40 pm
Jay @10:12 am Del, it’s not a point in contention. Everybody in Wisconsin from the governor on down understands that the unions are willing to accept what Walker has demanded from them in terms of economics.
One reason to remove the collective bargaining is to make it harder for the next Democratic governor & state house to undo the current economic concessions. Of course, that governor and state house can reverse the law when they have the votes. Another reason is that once collective bargaining ensues, the unions can claim the state government is not bargaining in good faith (no matter if they are or aren’t) and bring in some of Barak Obama’s Dept. of Labor “mediators” to oversee the process.
Granny Godzilla
February 21st, 2011
1:40 pm
jm
love to see your over confidence…..
Kamchak
February 21st, 2011
1:40 pm
Cause Galt wasn’t a legislator.
Never said he was, sport.
TaxPayer
February 21st, 2011
1:40 pm
Is someone bringing up that fictional grabage from the drug addict Ayn Rand AGAIN!
John Birch
February 21st, 2011
1:41 pm
A recent poll in Poland, WI showed teachers unions have fallen from a 87% favorable rating to 42%, nice move teacher. Seems like laying out of work, lying about being sick so you can get paid, and comparing the gov to Hosni Mubarek isn’t exactly what the good people of
Wisconsin think they should be getting for their tax dollars. On Wisconsan!
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:41 pm
Granny – I don’t care about Wisconsin (at the margin). I care about the country. And this episode is helping the country go Red. But have fun sticking your head in the sand….
Michelle Mal's Kin
February 21st, 2011
1:41 pm
That’s right, let’s blame minorities, (especially blacks — without blacks this country would be PERFECT!); illegal aliens, birth control, teachers, and while we’re at it – people who’s name start with the letters A-T, on all our worries!! See below comments from John and Jay. True ConServs. True Americans and True men!
What a ridiculous argument. You will get a much higher coefficent of correlation if you compare those average test scores to the percentage of African American test takers, student-teacher ratios, or about a dozen other factors.
Jay, please look at the schools in North Fulton & compare them to Wisconsin pal. The reason that GA scores are so low is that we have to include the liberals located in the APS, DeKalb, Clayton, etc.
TaxPayer
February 21st, 2011
1:42 pm
Something momentous is happening in the US right now and jm is telling us just what the UK bloggers says it is. hehehe too funny
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:42 pm
Obama’s a loser.
The fact that a president would use his own campaign foot soldiers to back public employees against their elected state government shows how distorted his priorities have become. Instead of confronting unions, as President Ronald Reagan did with the air traffic controllers in 1981 when he fired more than 11,000 of them, Obama is facilitating them.
Doggone/GA
February 21st, 2011
1:42 pm
“Well, I guess you’ll be applauding Republicans if they decide not to pass a CR or a new budget, or raise the debt ceiling.”
If it’s a bad bill…yes, I will
Mick
February 21st, 2011
1:44 pm
jm
Funny how people got along just fine with the public sector unions until this year. It seems there is a concerted strategy to go after them. It’s a power play pure and simple. Five, ten years ago why weren’t people raising questions? No, now that the great corporate capitalists and wall street thieves during the past regime have gutted the US, they want to come back and finish the job…
WOODSTOCK MIKE
February 21st, 2011
1:45 pm
@Left Wing Management
Oh, so you believe that balancing a budget is not that important. Ok, I understand your logic now…
You believe Walker is lying about the state’s financial position, correct??
jm
February 21st, 2011
1:45 pm
TaxPayer 1:42 – you’re not too bright. The author is based in DC. And not a blogger…. an actual journalist…