The hypocrisy of the Tenthers and states’ rights defenders
Conservative Republicans make a great show about states’ rights these days. It’s all the rage. The Tenth Amendment, they say, limits Congress to those areas in which the Constitution explicitly empowers it to act. All other responsibility resides with the states. They’re also not real happy with the way the commerce clause — in their eyes — has been stretched to apply to areas well beyond what the Founders intended, particularly health care.
Georgia’s Republican congressmen have been among those leading that charge. U.S. Reps. Phil Gingrey and Tom Price — both of whom happen to be physicians — were co-sponsors last year of a resolution declaring that “the very future of freedom and limited government depends on a restoration of American federalism and a real decentralization of government power.”
In remarks on the House floor, Gingrey has protested bitterly against a “‘Washington-knows-best’ solution and a one-size-fits-all approach,” and both men supported a new House rule requiring bill sponsors to cite a specific power enumerated in the Constitution that would authorize the proposed action.
Of course, the true test of your allegiance to principle comes not when you try to use it to restrict what the other guy does, but when you apply it to yourself. It’s all well and good to preach about the sanctity of marriage vows, for example, but the real test comes in whether you honor those vows in your own life.
So I found it interesting that earlier this week, the House Judiciary Committee decided to brush aside supposed concerns about federalism and states’ rights. By a vote of 18-15 — all Republicans for, all Democrats against — it approved a law that would directly pre-empt and override state laws and longstanding state authority and intrude on states’ rights by imposing a federal, one-size-fits-all solution.
The issue was medical malpractice, a favorite conservative cause. According to Politico, the bill in question would put a “three-year statute of limitations on medical lawsuits, cap non-economic damages at $250,000, and limit punitive damages to $250,000 or twice the economic damages, whichever is greater.”
For the moment, let’s set aside debate on the merits of the law and focus on its necessity: Why should Congress interfere in such an area, given that most medical malpractice suits are argued in state courts, under state laws? Until now, every state has had the right to decide such issues on its own. Some states have tough laws, some have more lenient laws. That’s the essence of states’ rights, as I understand it. So what’s the justification for imposing what Gingrey might call “a Washington-knows-best’ solution”?
More importantly, where exactly in the Constitution does it say that Congress shall be empowered to dictate to state governments, state courts, state judges and state juries how they should handle state cases of alleged medical malpractice? What’s the source of that federal authority? I’ve looked in my handy pocket Constitution, and I can’t find such a provision anywhere. Under conservative legal theory, it certainly can’t be the commerce clause, given that the commerce involved is strictly intra-state, not interstate. Most people do not cross state lines to get medical care.
Curious, I went digging into the Congressional Record. Under new House rules, remember, sponsors are required to cite congressional authority for their proposed bill. And sure enough, on Jan. 24, the bill’s sponsor — a “Mr. Gingrey of Georgia” — cited the commerce clause as his authority.
– Jay Bookman
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494 comments Add your comment
Mick
February 18th, 2011
12:54 pm
yaker & co
Why is it that you all have to resort to silly, immature nick names for the president? Are you perpetually going thru puberty? Just asking…
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
12:55 pm
Even when American citizens are killed on American soil protecting their property, they do nothing.
I’m guessing you haven’t been following this trial here:
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20110214/NEWS01/702149883/0/BLOG47
On Monday, an Arizona jury convicted the former Everett woman of killing two people, including 9-year-old Brisenia Flores. It was all part of a bizarre plot to fight crime on the border with Mexico by staging a deadly home invasion on U.S. soil, prosecutors said.
AmVet
February 18th, 2011
12:55 pm
“I don’t drink enough water in the winter and affraid I may have a cracker-like mentality.”
Now that made for a good guffaw, thomas. Thanks.
Uncle Miltie has got something way up his ___ this afternoon, huh?
At least one of the brats is out for the weekend.
Despite the persona, Tom Price is as spineless and obsequious as they come. I’d love to get on one of his call-in programs and ask him a couple of questions. I pretty much guarantee they would block my number in the future!
jt, I think the line is get thee behind me Satan…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pxEK-bfRBE
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 18th, 2011
12:56 pm
Jay:
“Under conservative legal theory, it certainly can’t be the commerce clause, given that the commerce involved is strictly intra-state, not interstate. Most people do not cross state lines to get medical care.”
You can’t be serious ??
Under the prostitution of the “commerce clause” the Supreme Court “has and will” do anything it wants.
If just “one person” crosses state lines they have their nexus.
The medical equipment crosses state lines so they have their nexus.
A medical employee crosses state lines for their emplyment they have their nexus.
The list is endless.
By the way Jay, I think it is Montana that has passed legislation for a company building firearms in that state claiming that all parts, equipment, employees, etc. are all “interstate” in nature and therefore federal gun laws do not apply.
Do you support that ?
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 18th, 2011
12:57 pm
AmVet:
“Despite the persona, Tom Price is as spineless and obsequious as they come. I’d love to get on one of his call-in programs and ask him a couple of questions. I pretty much guarantee they would block my number in the future!”
Hey ………. watch it !
He fixed my rotator cuff 20 years ago and it’s still working fine …………………..
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 18th, 2011
12:58 pm
Out for awhile.
I am SURE there will be thoughtful, unbiased, well thought out, polite answers to my questions when I return.
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
1:02 pm
I think it is Montana that has passed legislation for a company building firearms in that state claiming that all parts, equipment, employees, etc. are all “interstate” in nature and therefore federal gun laws do not apply.
If they are truly “interstate”, then the raw materials should come from Montana soil, be processed on Montana soil, and the final product assembled in Montana. If one minute part of the manufacturing process originates outside of Montana, then it is not truly “interstate”. I think, however, the word you’re looking for is intrastate. Interstate denotes exchange between two states, and intrastate would mean everything from within the borders of one state.
TnGelding
February 18th, 2011
1:03 pm
Gingrey is better than most of the clowns. We’re all hypocrites.
Futile as it is, you’ve got to admire the GOPs willingness to go to the mat on spending cuts. Never mind the time and money being wasted.
josef nix
February 18th, 2011
1:04 pm
jt
It’s an interesting thing, that one. I’ve been working with a childhood friend who is writing his own family’s story. In our hometown there is a community of Choctaw who “came in here at the turn of the century…” The were led by their minister, Brother Columbus C. a much respected friend of my grandfather’s, They were running from the law. They were descended from those who refused to register under Article 14 of the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek and refused to report for Removal as well. The last round ups came in 1906 when this group fled into the backwoods and while not always held in the highest regards by the locals, weren’t turned in either. My friend is taking the oral history and weaving it around the documented to tell the story.
jt
February 18th, 2011
1:08 pm
AmVet
“jt, I think the line is get thee behind me Satan…”
I don’t know about satan, but that song was pure hell. sheeeesh. I believe you once described a song as cantowailing. That was techno canterwailing.
As far as satan or the feds,……………..what’s the diff?
Stalin,Mao,Lincoln………..the results always end up the same.(mass graves).
How are YOU gonna go?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQoq-wqZxg
Mick
February 18th, 2011
1:17 pm
Stalin, mao, lincoln mentioned in the same breath? Where’s jeff davis?
LIberal Pariah
February 18th, 2011
1:17 pm
Politics is all hypocrisy on both sides because it is all about self-interest and situational ethics. However, few Conservative hypocrisies support murder. Liberals are generally for gun control in the name of saving lives but support abortion which kills millions more. Give me the hypocrisy that doesn’t kill millions.
josef nix
February 18th, 2011
1:18 pm
Mick
I was thinking where’s Andy J! And, yes, imho unreconstructed opinion, Ole Jeff is right in there with the rest of them…
jt
February 18th, 2011
1:22 pm
josef nix
In my youth, we visited some maternal family members literally “on the reservation”. Slightly appalled at what I experienced. Abject poverty. My father (strict scott/irish/whatever) didn’t help by instilling bogus prejudices or some wrong lesson. (Dang Injuns.) (eventhough he married one).
I do not blame anyone in that it was the seventies.
My family is still in the process of overcoming some weird times but I am beyond that flak. Out of respect, I wait for the others to catch up.
Pass it around………………………………………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwPrcuo_cUE
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
1:23 pm
However, few Conservative hypocrisies support murder.
How many pro-life conservatives are also anti-death penalty?
Adam
February 18th, 2011
1:24 pm
What is actually being proposed in Wisconsin?
Just in case any of you were actually curious why there’s an uproar. I think you conservatives should look very closely.
Adam
February 18th, 2011
1:25 pm
LIberal Pariah/Night Train: Politics is all hypocrisy on both sides because it is all about self-interest and situational ethics. However, few Conservative hypocrisies support murder. Liberals are generally for gun control in the name of saving lives but support abortion which kills millions more. Give me the hypocrisy that doesn’t kill millions.
And what about the South Dakota proposed bill that would make it ok to kill abortion doctors? Do you support that?
Mick
February 18th, 2011
1:26 pm
josef
One day I was looking at my $20 bill and thought WTF? One of the worst basturd presidents in our unholy history…
LIberal Pariah
February 18th, 2011
1:27 pm
SC, a lot more than Gun Control Liberals Supporting Abortion
. Maybe I should have qualified my statement with murder of INNOCENT human beings. I personally am not in favor of the Death Penalty but it is a much more complicated issue than abortion.
George W
February 18th, 2011
1:27 pm
Southern Comfort……#1 the child is innocent #2 the felon is not. #3 eye for an eye.
Dudley (can the people on tv see me?)
February 18th, 2011
1:29 pm
George w
What about turn the other cheek
Mick
February 18th, 2011
1:29 pm
george
Are you ready to raise that innocent child? If not, are ready to supply some welfare for that innocent child? Once again, just asking..
Dudley (can the people on tv see me?)
February 18th, 2011
1:30 pm
Love how the new testament is forgotten when death penalty comes up
Dudley (can the people on tv see me?)
February 18th, 2011
1:32 pm
Mick @ 1:29
You already know the answer to that. Don’t you?
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
1:32 pm
LP
Ok. With the qualifier, your statement is quite different than the original.
George
Murder is murder regardless. The original statement had nothing to do with innocence or guilt.
LIberal Pariah
February 18th, 2011
1:35 pm
New Testament is not forgotten at all. Jesus’ admonition to turn the other cheek is in the context of personal behavior towards individuals. God gave the government the authority to determine when capital punishment is appropriate (Genesis 9:6, Romans 13:1-7).
AmVet
February 18th, 2011
1:35 pm
Corporal, too bad he left medicine for Washington.
But can you snap off a big curve ball?
jt, you don’t know the Bible very well do you?
Nor apparently Irving Berlin who wrote a popular song with that title for the 1936 film Follow the Fleet.
And the Clash is trash. Kinda like an English Ramones. Punk music always sucked…(just my two cents worth.)
jm
February 18th, 2011
1:37 pm
Yeah Wisconsin.
Mick
February 18th, 2011
1:39 pm
jm
If the facts show that in wisconsin that this is all about union busting, nothing more, you’re ok with that?
Dave R.
February 18th, 2011
1:40 pm
“Just in case any of you were actually curious why there’s an uproar. I think you conservatives should look very closely.”
Knew it before. Agreed with it yesterday. Hashed it out yesterday. You lost then. You still lose today.
Ezra Klein is a tool worse than Bookman.
Did I cover all the salient points?
Dudley (can the people on tv see me?)
February 18th, 2011
1:40 pm
Amvet
Dude the clash is awesome, the ramones du suck. Really they do.
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
1:40 pm
Adam
But, that’s supposed to help balance the budget.
Normal
February 18th, 2011
1:41 pm
If you are going to be “Pro Life”, you have to be anti-war, anti-execution, and anything else that is anti-life. If not you are just Pro Fetus….and if you are pro fetus, it has to be your responsibility to insure that that life is given everything it needs to be a boon to society and not a burden. If you just try to “save” the fetus and then just leave that life in an unwanted environment, rife with abuse, and with no hope of a good life, then you are no better than one who would leave a dog on the freeway because you didn’t want to feed it anymore.
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
1:43 pm
Dave
So, you believe that a) making a union certify every year and b) not allowing for union dues to be deducted from a paycheck will help balance a budget?
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
1:43 pm
Thank you Normal!!!!!
jm
February 18th, 2011
1:44 pm
Mick 1:39 – its not just about union busting. unless you mean union busting is about cutting the costs of unionized teachers and reducing their collective bargaining rights. either way, I think what they’re doing is great. I have respect for people who feel like they should get a government job that has complete job security and they should get paid more than private sector workers, and that the voters shouldn’t have a say over how much they get paid.
Go wisconsin.
jm
February 18th, 2011
1:46 pm
oops
have respect
have no respect…
Dudley (can the people on tv see me?)
February 18th, 2011
1:46 pm
Omfg. Same stuff from the corporate slaves
Mick
February 18th, 2011
1:46 pm
dave r@ 1:40
The judge, the jury, and the executioner, you missed your calling for the inquisition.
Mick
February 18th, 2011
1:49 pm
jm
See the problem is over collective bargaining, why the heavy hand, these people are taxpayers too, doesn’t that count for something?
josef nix
February 18th, 2011
1:50 pm
mick
Unmentionable’s granddaddy refused to accept the $20 bill in his business, had a sign saying so!
Dudley
Turn the other cheek? :What happens when they slap that one, too,” I asked Granddaddy about that one way back when he was trying to set my moral compass…”Well, Jody,” he said, “the Good Book is silent there. I prefer a .45.”
jt
Unmentionable goes “back to the reservation” ever so often, but it’s to gamble and play golf these days! Seriously, though, he rarely gets into a snit over a lot of this, but the one where he does is when somebody questions his “Indianess” because he is a highly educated professional who lives in Buckhead, so he can’t be “a real Native American.” Folks ask him if he “does Indian things.” “No,” he says, “I do things Indian.”
Dudley (can the people on tv see me?)
February 18th, 2011
1:51 pm
Wah wah wah. I’m not in the union therefore the union must be bad
Dave R.
February 18th, 2011
1:51 pm
“So, you believe that a) making a union certify every year and b) not allowing for union dues to be deducted from a paycheck will help balance a budget?”
Not directly, nor do I care if they do. What I do care about is finding any way possible to weaken any stranglehold a union has on a government. It is my contention that only police and fire (and those only in exteme situations such as neglect for their safety) should have the ability to form a union.
Dudley (can the people on tv see me?)
February 18th, 2011
1:53 pm
Josef
Lol
Well gonna take my significant other out on the town. Y’all have fun
josef nix
February 18th, 2011
1:53 pm
Dudley
Clash? Yeah! Still pull out my copy of Sandinista! Ramones? Bleeeah!
jt
February 18th, 2011
1:54 pm
“And the Clash is trash. Kinda like an English Ramones. Punk music always sucked…(just my two cents worth.)”
Whatever dude.
I will weigh your taste in music(clash is trash) the same way I weigh your taste in politics(GO Ralph Nader).HaHaHa…………..Ha..Ha.Ha. You probably listen to ABBA too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPVQKQgSWgM&feature=related
Mick
February 18th, 2011
1:56 pm
**It is my contention that only police and fire (and those only in exteme situations such as neglect for their safety) should have the ability to form a union.**
Thank god you are not able to dictate those terms because last I heard this is america and if people want to band together to form a perfect union, that is their right, capice?
Dudley (can the people on tv see me?)
February 18th, 2011
1:57 pm
Messed up one day and watched the ramones movie, rock and roll high school, a few years back. Reminded me how much they sucked!
Adam
February 18th, 2011
1:57 pm
Dave R: There is no winning or losing in what I posted. All that was there was what is being proposed. I saw many posts seeming to indicate that this was all about teachers whining about not getting paid enough. That is clearly not the case.
Liberal Pariah/Night Train: I personally am not in favor of the Death Penalty but it is a much more complicated issue than abortion.
Only to YOU. To me, both issues are quite complicated in equal measure.
josef nix
February 18th, 2011
1:58 pm
**It is my contention that only police and fire (and those only in exteme situations such as neglect for their safety) should have the ability to form a union.**
Now that’s an interesting take. I’ll have to give that some thought….
Dudley (can the people on tv see me?)
February 18th, 2011
1:59 pm
AC/DC rules!!!!!!!!!
jm
February 18th, 2011
1:59 pm
Mick 1:49 – sure, of course they’re voters. Hopefully they voted in the last election. When the next election rolls around, they can vote again. In the meantime, they should get back to work. Or do they just plan to let all the kids go uneducated.
Clearly, they are just looking out for the interests of their customers, the kids….. yeah right.
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
2:00 pm
ummm, union busting IS about reducing their collective bargaining rights.
Adam
February 18th, 2011
2:00 pm
It is my contention that only police and fire (and those only in exteme situations such as neglect for their safety) should have the ability to form a union.
I strongly disagree. Safety is not the only reason to form a union, nor is pay. Sometimes it’s about being treated fairly and not being fired for “no reason, or any reason at all.”
Dudley (can the people on tv see me?)
February 18th, 2011
2:02 pm
SoCo
Union bashers are jealous, so they cry and complain aboutnpeople smart enuf to be in one
Dave R.
February 18th, 2011
2:02 pm
“Thank god you are not able to dictate those terms because last I heard this is america and if people want to band together to form a perfect union, that is their right, capice?”
Mick:
1. Unions as we are speaking of are far from perfect.
2. The term “union” to which you are referencing is the union of STATES, not a labor union.
3. I do not deny that any number of people can form a group to act in their own interests, however, there is NO RIGHT to dictate their terms to another nor gain favor over another in the Constitution.
I long ago gave up hope that you will understand simple Constitutional concepts.
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
2:03 pm
It is my contention that only police and fire (and those only in exteme situations such as neglect for their safety) should have the ability to form a union.
I’m sure that might be part of the reason that you are an ex-elected official too. I could be wrong though. That is an interesting perspective though. What makes police and fire different? Are they not public employees just as the others are?
Dudley (can the people on tv see me?)
February 18th, 2011
2:03 pm
Gotta go. Later all
Dave R.
February 18th, 2011
2:03 pm
“I strongly disagree.”
Color me shocked, leg humper.
jm
February 18th, 2011
2:03 pm
FYI, this is not just about union busting. Wisconsin has a $3B hole 2 years from now to fill if nothing is done to fix the pensions, benefits, etc.
Go Wisconsin.
You liberals always buy the conspiracy theory. When it comes time to fix Medicare and SS, you’re going to be arguing Republicans just want to kill old people…..
Dave R.
February 18th, 2011
2:05 pm
“I’m sure that might be part of the reason that you are an ex-elected official too. I could be wrong though. That is an interesting perspective though. What makes police and fire different?”
You would be very wrong (as usual).
We covered this yesterday. Daily and sometimes prolonged stress in dangerous conditions.
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
2:05 pm
I do not deny that any number of people can form a group to act in their own interests, however, there is NO RIGHT to dictate their terms to another nor gain favor over another in the Constitution.
So, the GOP has NO RIGHT to try to dictate their terms in regards to health care or the budget to the Democratic Party? Are you sure that’s the point you’re trying to make?
Nice Guy
February 18th, 2011
2:06 pm
“Sometimes it’s about being treated fairly and not being fired for “no reason, or any reason at all.”
Really, Adam. That’s funny, you know, because that sorta stuff happens all the time.
Riiight.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 18th, 2011
2:06 pm
Southern Comfort @ 1:02
I think that is exactly how they are doing that. They have tried to cover every angle of the process to keep it intrastate.
However, the Supreme Court does whatever it wants to do.
The oxygen they breathe as they are assembling the weapons comes from interstate winds
Nice Guy
February 18th, 2011
2:09 pm
Hey People, just remember that the Gov. in Wisconsin in a Repub…which means he was put there to cut spending. That’s what he’s doing. Now all you Left-nuts are on the floor like a 4 year throwing a tantrum. That’s embarassing, don’t you think?
Nice.
Dave R.
February 18th, 2011
2:09 pm
“So, the GOP has NO RIGHT to try to dictate their terms in regards to health care or the budget to the Democratic Party? Are you sure that’s the point you’re trying to make?”
Sometimes you are deliberately dense, SoCo, and sometimes you just can’t help yourself. I don’t know which one this is.
Can you say “elected officials”? Duh!
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 18th, 2011
2:09 pm
AmVet
“February 18th, 2011
1:35 pm
Corporal, too bad he left medicine for Washington.
But can you snap off a big curve ball?”
You lost me on the above ?????
Nice Guy
February 18th, 2011
2:10 pm
Oh, and I love that Obama has decided to weigh in this issue. Not that its any suprise that he backs unions whenever and for whatever….
I’m with jm. Go Wisconsin.
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 18th, 2011
2:13 pm
Does anyone else want to take a stab at this ?
Since no one seems to be able to name just “one thing” in the 10th Amendment that absolutely prohibits federal government involvement and since the purpose of the 10th Amendment should be “self-evident”, then by deduction that Amendment to the Constitution has become de facto null and void ……………….. something the founding fathers also did not intend.
Sadly, when one Amendment is “ignored” that cheapens the authority of the entire Constitution because any part thereof can be next.
It’s not a liberal or conservative thing …………. it’s respect for the Constitution.
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
2:13 pm
jm
From Jay’s link yesterday:
Despite shortfalls in revenue following the economic downturn that hit its peak with the Bush-era stock market collapse, the state has balanced budgets, maintained basic services and high-quality schools, and kept employment and business development steadier than the rest of the country. It has managed so well, in fact, that the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau recently released a memo detailing how the state will end the 2009-2011 budget biennium with a budget surplus.
Here’s a link to the memo:
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf
Wisconsin’s budget is in trouble, but only because of giveaways that the governor and GOP dominated legislature passed in January. You should read that report. If they delayed their tax cuts that they just passed, there is no financial crisis. If they offered a deal equal to that of what the fed unions have negotiated, the unions don’t have a leg to stand on. The governor would get the concessions that he wants, and the public employees would be paying more for their benefits, and the taxpayers would not be funding their pensions.
Dave
How is teaching not stressful? With kids bringing guns on campus everyday, how is teaching not dangerous? Police and fire do face dangerous situations on a daily basis, however, they are trained to handle those situations. Teachers are not trained in how to deal with an active shooter situation. Teachers are not taught how to disarm a student armed with a knife or gun.
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
2:18 pm
Can you say “elected officials”? Duh!
Are political parties not groups that are formed to act in their own interests? There are no Cconstitutional rights to form political parties, nor are they protected in the Constitution. Your #3 pretty much said the same thing. Elected officials do not have a right to DICTATE their terms. Everything is done by vote and debate, not dictation.
I’m not being dense at all. You made the statement, not me. Your words are the ones that ring hollow.
jm
February 18th, 2011
2:18 pm
Unions make me sick
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/19/us/19wisconsin.html
jm
February 18th, 2011
2:20 pm
SoCo – not true. There is a real deficit problem a couple of years out, in the billions of dollars, because of the public employee entitlements. The minor tax cuts have nothing to do with it. Hell, I even heard all this on that bastion of conservatism NPR.
jm
February 18th, 2011
2:22 pm
Nice Guy – and all those liberals who say Republicans are just full of BS. Now, they’re doing the spending cuts, thank heavens. Liberals are the ones full of BS, just different BS depending on what’s going on…..
Doggone/GA
February 18th, 2011
2:22 pm
“Unions make me sick”
Hang in there…you’ll have healthcare starting in only 2 years, or so.
josef nix
February 18th, 2011
2:23 pm
SoCo
“Teachers are not trained in how to deal with an active shooter situation. Teachers are not taught how to disarm a student armed ”
Not all are, but some are.It’s relatively new, but more and more the “safety committee” attends “workshops” in just such. Sad, isn’t it?
Dave R.
February 18th, 2011
2:24 pm
SoCo, you’re whiffing at EVERYTHING today.
First, there is a 3.8 BILLION deficit in Wisconsin to be made up. Get with the program. They did NOT giveaway that amount in tax breaks.
And really, SoCo? You’re going to hang your hat on teaching being as stressful as running into a burning building? Sorry, I’ve done both and I KNOW which one got my heart-rate to emergency levels. Kids bringing guns on campus every day? Really? Where? Haven’t heard of even a handful in this state in the pat couple of years. I thought you libs didn’t believe in fearmongering . . .
jt
February 18th, 2011
2:24 pm
0311/0317 – 1811/1801
That was a good entry “However, the Supreme Court does whatever it wants to do.
The oxygen they breathe”. crosses state lines.”
Will you answer me one question?…….Do you feel the same if…..
the Federal Government is involved if I choose to grow a marijuana plant in my backyard and SMOKE it?
0311/0317 - 1811/1801
February 18th, 2011
2:26 pm
jt:
One thing I try to do is be consistent.
If “everything” involved is intrastate, then it’s a state issue.
jm
February 18th, 2011
2:26 pm
First liberal argument: The Republicans are frauds because they aren’t proposing real spending cuts
Second liberal argument: well, now that they’re proposing real spending cuts, these cuts aren’t needed and they’re just out to screw people.
Both arguments: lies.
Dave R.
February 18th, 2011
2:26 pm
“I’m not being dense at all. You made the statement, not me. Your words are the ones that ring hollow.”
I always know when you have nothing to add to the substance of a debate when you start nitpicking someone’s wordsmithing.
Adam
February 18th, 2011
2:29 pm
0311/Scout: Does anyone else want to take a stab at this ?
I answered you already.
Dave R: It seems to me today you are playing the role of “Dave R is right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who dares question or disagree is deserving of mockery, instead of any sort of legitimate response.” You might as well not say anything at all if your only retort to my disagreement is an insult.
Normal
February 18th, 2011
2:30 pm
Josef, SoCo,
Teachers are not trained in how to deal with an active shooter situation. Teachers are not taught how to disarm a student armed ”
Assume the defensive position of hands open and slightly extended (boxers stance)…Rotate 180 degrees, now facing away from armed assailant. Bring left leg forward step….repeat steps until you are out of range.
————-
SoCo,
You, my friend, are really on the mark today! Well done.
Adam
February 18th, 2011
2:31 pm
jm: What is the truth then? It seems to me what is going on is Democrats want to cut things other than entitlements, and Republicans want to cut ONLY entitlements and public radio/broadcasting.
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
2:31 pm
Dave
You’re whiffing…. Even better, you’re fighting using the windmill technique. Where did I say teaching was AS stressful as running into a burning building. You don’t agree with me, however, don’t put words into my mouth that I didn’t say. You’re fairly reasonable, but that’s pure bullsh*t to try to debate me on something I didn’t say. That’s very “conservative” of you, though. I don’t expect anything less from those who are die-hard conservatives.
As far as their budget, I said nothing about outlays. If you bothered to research federal union negotiations, you would know that the Great Saint Ronald Reagan changed the pensions of federal workers so that they are not a burden on taxpayers. Our pensions are just as dependent on the market and social security as the private sector. If Wisconsin followed Reagan’s model, they wouldn’t have the issues with budgets in the future. Check it out if you don’t believe me.
jt
February 18th, 2011
2:32 pm
0311/0317 – 1811/1801
So if a Federal SWAT team showed up at my house because of a few pot plants growing,….would you arrest me?
Would you arrest the citizens of the 10 states that have nullified federal medical marijuana laws if ordered to do so?
I admire your consistency…but often our “war on drugs” culture will destroy it.
What say you?
Adam
February 18th, 2011
2:33 pm
Josef, SoCo,
Teachers are not trained in how to deal with an active shooter situation. Teachers are not taught how to disarm a student armed ”
Well, maybe they should be. But that would require more funding. So f— it, right?
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
2:34 pm
There is a real deficit problem a couple of years out, in the billions of dollars, because of the public employee entitlements.
JM, if that’s the case, how is destroying a union going to change the pensions already promised? What Wisconsin is doing is pure bullsh*t. Read my response to Dave. Reagan has already shown the way to reform pensions and union negotiations without having to destroy unions. It’s a damn shame that people claim to be conservatives, and have no fu*king clue as to what their greatest Icon has really accomplished.
josef nix
February 18th, 2011
2:37 pm
DAVE
@ 2:24
I wish I were at liberty to respond to that. It’s not my perogative, But the statistics are there as a matter of the public record if you want to go looking. This is not just something of anecdotal reference. The state requires this information be reported by time, date and place.
Adam
February 18th, 2011
2:37 pm
SoCo: You make some good points about Reagan. The definition of what a conservative is seems to be changing more and more rapidly.
Nice Guy
February 18th, 2011
2:38 pm
Doggone – “Hang in there…you’ll have healthcare starting in only 2 years, or so.”
But it is so bad, that we are already seeing some negative reprecussions of it NOW.
jm
February 18th, 2011
2:39 pm
Adam 2:31 – wrong. Democrats want to raise taxes and aren’t inclined to cut anything other than the military. Republicans are willing to cut everything and don’t want to raise taxes. Republicans have already cut some military spending and intend to cut much more. Meanwhile, the ball-less democrats are just screaming, whining, playing politics, instead of actually helping to govern the country.
I despise unions. And Obama loves unions. Ergo, I cannot wait to vote R in 2012.
Mick
February 18th, 2011
2:40 pm
dave r
You are a real piece of one sided hot air. All the workers want is some respect to have their union and bargain collectively, period. If wisconsin does have a deficit they have said they are ready to do their part. That’s not good enough for you anti-union zealots, it’s your way or the highway, this is america and that’s not the way it works, deal with it..
Nice Guy
February 18th, 2011
2:40 pm
SoCo – “It’s a damn shame that people claim to be conservatives, and have no fu*king clue as to what their greatest Icon has really accomplished.”
Ah yes, another episode of ‘we love Reagan when he makes our point and hate him when he doesn’t'….
Dave R.
February 18th, 2011
2:40 pm
Actually, Adam, I’m playing the “Dave R is right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who dares bring up the same stupid arguments we hased out yesterday (and the days before) is deserving of mockery, instead of any sort of legitimate response.” game.
People who think they know it all, really tick off those of us who actually do . . .
jm
February 18th, 2011
2:41 pm
Oh, Adam, BTW, 2/3 or more of the federal budgets is entitlements. If they’re not cut, there will not be any military, or any government spending available for anything else in about 15 years. Democraps is an accurate moniker.
Adam
February 18th, 2011
2:42 pm
jm: Well aside from your last post having nothing to do with unions…
Democrats want to raise taxes and aren’t inclined to cut anything other than the military. Republicans are willing to cut everything and don’t want to raise taxes
Please show me where in Obama’s plan he has raised taxes, and also please show me how he has ONLY focused on cutting military. THen, show me how the Republican plan cuts everything. “Willing to cut everything” is just words. Back it up with an actual proposal. If you can show me a Republican plan that LITERALLY cuts everything, I’ll eat my words.
Southern Comfort (E.O.I.)
February 18th, 2011
2:42 pm
I always know when you have nothing to add to the substance of a debate when you start nitpicking someone’s wordsmithing.
Don’t wanna own up to what you said now… That figures.
jm
February 18th, 2011
2:42 pm
SoCo 2:34 – I see no reason why businesses, or employers of any stripe, should be made to collect dues for unions. If that were the case, then we should be making unions cut their expenses and the wages of their members for any company not making a profit…. but that will never happen.
They BOTH suck
February 18th, 2011
2:43 pm
@ Dave R
“People who think they know it all, really tick off those of us who actually do . . .”
Based on that quote, YOU must really piss off a lot of people…….
Jk………. that was too easy
have a great day