Two budget fights loom — one that matters, and one that doesn’t

Jay – part of your paragraph on SS is missing

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This is a great example of what infuriates me about both sides of the political debate…

Few of the A$$hats we see on TV or in print even acknowledge the FULL picture…they pick one tree out of the entire forest and concoct an asinine position that only addresses the one ‘tree.’

They know better, but have been taught that their constituents are dumb…

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“Good ol’ Vinny…always good for a laugh”

A card-carrying member of “the Tribe”!

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The cuts that need to be made have to be across the board, along with elimination of some of the departments–we don’t need a dept of education as they do nothing but spend money (plus, our property taxes provide the local schools with the money they need, not the feds–the feds spend money on teachers unions and other unnecessary entitlements), we don’t need dept of agriculture either. EPA should be slashed. IRS should be eliminated and replaced with the fair tax.

Everything else should be cut 25% with defense cut to 40% or so. We have to get serious about this or lose our American way of life. Our currency and our future and our kids future depends on it. That is why I’m giving more consideration to Ron Paul, where 4 years ago, I laughed at him.

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I like that. Main point, supporting arguments, tie-in back to the theme.

“U.S. Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia is reportedly playing a major role in leading a bipartisan, behind-the-scenes discussion in the Senate”

Pres Obama did it with Congressional Republicans, Spkr Pelosi wasn’t happy but the deal was cut. That’s how, to use a worn metaphor, sausage gets made. Gotta bypass talk radio and special interest websites and activist special interest groups.

Sen Rand Paul was on tv this morning, said in the next two weeks they’ll propose ‘modest’ changes to SS to fix it. If he’s talking ‘modest’ and it appears to mirror the deficit commission, maybe we can fix it.

For the rest, the contrast between public pronouncements and appeasement vs private accommodation. I hope accommodation wins.

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Paul, i saw it.

Paul 9:51- you’re correct about how the fiscal year works. But Obama signed the 2009 fiscal year budget, not Bush. They spit out CR’s so that Obama would have his choice over how to spend the money.

So, Obama decided to blow the cash. The guy’s the worst President we’ve possibly ever had… and if re-elected, will probably be the overseer of US bankruptcy / hyperinflation. It makes me ill.

But, at least I can salve my conscience by shorting Treasuries. Makes me feel better. Prosperity insurance so to speak.

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LHU – The recession is over?? Hallelujah – the messiah Obama did it! All is well! Nothing to worry about!

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RE Saxby – rumors are he’s ready to go make a real living selling his services as a lobbyist or some such thing. Meaning, that has either freed him to do the sensible thing. Or he’s trying to make a name for himself to get a more lucrative job later. I don’t know which.

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1) Quit trying to use SS funds for anything other than what they’re collected for. Demand that politicians all quit using that money to try to balance the budget. There’s a specific tax collected for a specific purpose. SS is not funded from the general budget, therefore it should not be included in the general budget either.

2) Our entire health care delivery system needs to change to address costs. Neither patients nor providers have control over the costs as much as the middlemen (ins. providers) have. Personally, I don’t think health care should be a for-profit area, as I think it’s morally wrong to try to make a profit based on the wellness or sickness of a person.

3) Good luck with that. Our defense spending is going to do to us what it did to USSR. Is it a coincidence that the two nations where we have troops share a common neighbor? Maybe… Is it also a coincidence that IED technology from that common neighbor has appeared in both theatre’s of opperation? I think not… Our hubris will end up being our demise if we don’t watch out.

4) I just heard the collective explosion of about 5.5 million conservatives across the country.

… btw: Seems like you had an incomplete thought about #1 Jay. Seems like your were trying to mention the maximum amount of taxable SS income or something.

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I’ll vote against anyone who does not stamp his feet.

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Jay, nice column. Agree with most points (not all though). You left out Medicaid. Medicaid could use some real help, and the best solution as I see it, is let states innovate by providing block grants….

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SoCO 10:06 – Item 1 – there’s no way to do that without using partial privatization….

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“Why did you duck?” Ryan asked Obama’s Budget Director Jack Lew at a hearing Tuesday. “You know the drivers of our debt are entitlement programs, and yet you do nothing to address that.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49613.html#ixzz1E8RMIpLS

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Most Democrats, with the exception of a handful of senators working on a bipartisan debt proposal, have no intention of jumping into the debate anytime soon. When asked what Obama should do when the GOP releases its proposal, one Democratic aide, snapped: “Nothing.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49613.html#ixzz1E8RWLIod

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Obama as POTUS – Politician of the United States

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jm

“They spit out CR’s so that Obama would have his choice over how to spend the money.”

ummmm…. NO.

Funds are available for spending only when specifically authorized by law. There’s not a big pot of money the pres gets to divvy up. Congress passes specific amounts for the various agencies, and within those agencies, they restrict the spending further by category. So the pres canNOT take money from Defense and give to Interior, nor can he take money appropriated to pay military salaries and use it to fix weapons. He is restricted by law.

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“not have a clue as to how lead this country out of the recession”

psssst … don’t anyone tell Vinny that he US has had positive GDP growth for the last year … his head might a’splode … and we’d hate for that to happen

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Vinny, a legend in his own mind!

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This endless debate about ss is kind of useless. It will never end and continue to go into the hole.

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Paul 10:16 – guess you don’t know what a CR is. Just like you didn’t know how big the 2008 budget deficit was. Just pointing out facts.

The CR was there so that a full budget wasn’t passed until after Obama took office. Then he could tweak the 09 proposal as he saw fit…. dude, seriously go get your facts.

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Sorry, jm, grandma is not going to be pushed out on her kester on the side of the road.

And no privatization….period. Someone must have forgotten what happened 2 1/2 years ago plus whenever we try to privatize something , the middle class and the working poor get screwed.

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Some of those are great ideas, Bookman. And many of them look like they are copied right out of the Tea Party playbook. Too bad the best answer we’re getting from the Democrat leadership is “We haven’t spent enough money!”

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How many jobs will the Republican deficit reducing tax cuts create. Do they have a graph similar to the Laffer Curve that they use.

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“And many of them look like they are copied right out of the Tea Party playbook”

the only thing that needs to be copied out of the tea party playbook is the paint by numbers to keep the little kiddies occupied

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Jay – nice work on your points, I concur and agree that medicare is the ball breaker. My plan? God willing, stay as healthy as possible through good diet and exercise. The republican plan? To quote grayson, “die quickly”.

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Jay, $400 Billion over a decade is beyond a joke, considering the Federal Government will be spending $47 TRILLION over that same time frame.

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OMG, jm telling Paul to get his facts straight. That’s about the most classic thing evah on this here blog.

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mick – well, the good thing about climate change is that there will be more ice floes for us to push our elderly out on …

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“One is building and using equipment that is less expensive”

CAT scans … using real cats!

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Obama is a chicken. The guy didn’t even mention Social Security reform, very conspicuously absent, in his more widely viewed State of the Union. And SS reform is considered comparatively easy.

I understand he wants to be re-elected. He’s a politician. And somewhere, way down, no wait, not even on the list, is his attribute of “leader”.

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Vinny,
The difference between you and me is that I accept the fact that even though i do not agree with all of his beliefs, Barak Obama is my President. I will do everything I can do to help my President because I am a patriot.

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From the Tucson sun……………

http://tucsoncitizen.com/medicare/2011/02/14/annuities-vs-social-security/

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Jay, $400 Billion over a decade is beyond a joke, considering the Federal Government will be spending $47 TRILLION over that same time frame.

REALLY! Sounds to me like we might have to hike taxes to get to that level of spending.

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I got it. I’m a profligate American consumer spending too much on my credit card and I have an underwater, overlevered, high interest rate mortgage for a home that I can’t afford. I’m going to go start saving money by eating at McDonald’s instead of Wendy’s…. right…..

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make that “Tweaking’s what caused the quadrupling of Bush’s last budget DEFICIT?” (initial estimate vs latest estimate).

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I am just glad I will have a retirement plan, as well as ss for when I retire

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Paul 10:31 – I’m not saying Obama shouldn’t have signed the bill. But you were trying to argue it was Bush’s fault. In my world, the buck stops with the person who signs something. Or maybe you let other people write checks for you…. you and Obama.

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“That just will not do. What we needs is more volcanos to sacrifice our elderly to”

Wouldn’t that just make them angrier? I mean, think about it, when you are expecting a beautiful young virgin…and what you get is a dried up old person….?

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thomas

I’m there too my friend, getting my debt wiped out slowly but surely…

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Darn that Obama! If only he had ended the wars the day he took office, he could have avoided signing Bush’s budget!

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The numbers just don’t work, and the impact of that approach on seniors’ access to health care would be far more devastating than the imaginary death panels could ever have been. ….

Somehow, you’ve got to lower health-care delivery costs not just in Medicare but throughout the health-care system. (Doing it in Medicare alone is impossible.) You’ve also got to means-test benefits to a degree and raise taxes if necessary to cover what’s left. You can’t “solve” Medicare, but you can certainly contain it.

Repeat this very slowly: “Single – Payer – System”. It’s the only way, the one true way. A single payer system is the only way to rein in health care costs. And yet we can’t even have that conversation because what passes for an opposition to the Robber Barons is a DLC-gutted Democratic party that’s essentially conceded that the Robber Barons are basically right about economics and so they simply cede that terrain to them. (The DLC that has just closed its doors having done all the damage it could do has given us the spectacle of Barack Obama, a perfect jumble of empty phrases and meaningless ‘uplift’ without the slightest idea how to do battle with an opposition that has grown fatter and bolder even while wrecking the country).

Finally, you add Citizens United and the insurance lobby consolidates and redoubles what was already a complete stranglehold on this crucial issue for fiscal stability and social justice.

Taxes aren’t too high — as a percentage of national GDP, they’re lower now than they’ve been in decades. If we simply allow the Bush tax cuts to expire as now scheduled in 2012, taxes as a percentage of GDP would still be at or below the historical average since 1970.

And yet, with the likes of Paul Ryan passing for intelligent opposition for the Robber Barons, we can’t even have that conversation, now can we?

Robber Baron America on steroids here we come!

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Wouldn’t that just make them angrier? I mean, think about it, when you are expecting a beautiful young virgin…and what you get is a dried up old person….?

Ouch! I fergot about that aspect. Sacrifice our youngins instead!

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“it would bring nondefense discretionary spending to the lowest level since Eisenhower.”

Uh-oh…. Pres Obama’s going to get kicked out of the Socialist Society.

oh yeah…. //sarc//

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These quotes may restore my faith in Congress:

“In the last two years, under President Obama, the federal government has added 200,000 new federal jobs,” Mr. Boehner told reporters. “If some of those jobs are lost, so be it. We’re broke.”

Republicans argued that Democrats were exaggerating the impact, noting that the $61 billion is a small part of a $3 trillion federal budget. “Democrats don’t like it, but don’t call it slashing and burning,” said Rep. Jack Kingston (R., Ga.).

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Thanks USinUk — all comfy now.

Here’s the cleaner….

….yeah, like jm trying in vain to debate Paul? I’m at a loss on words for that one. Seriously.

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I’ve made suggestions before, but screw that this time. I think it’s absolutely hilarious that conservatives see Obama’s budget proposal as the end-all be-all of budget proposals, as though he’s not going to budge on it at all. Of course, “No, we’re not going to even look at your budget and we’ll propose a budget instead that attacks ONLY entitlements, even the entitlements that actually have nothing to do with the budget” is not likely to be taken seriously by anyone except the Republicans, and that’s only because of their constant ideological purity tests.

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“The damage those cuts would do is serious. But in terms of the deficit, the short-term fight will mean nothing and accomplish nothing.”

Jay,

You prove yourself to be a true Washington Man, so I will call you Washington-Man-Jay or WMJ for short. Of course, short-term fights will mean nothing and accomplish nothing–unless republicans cut the government.

This is typical Washington-think: we are prosperous as a nation if the government is prosperous, and it is this notion with which (one can only suppose) the adolescent President is making the case (NOT making really) whereby we will have eliminated the deficit by the end of the decade.

Sad to say, WMJ, this is just not true. You can caterwall all you want about Hitler’s arms and legs (again) but common sense is common sense, and the hissy fit is going to be Barack Obama’s (and the Marxist WMJ left) to have when the Republicans don’t grant HIM all the treats he and his green, union and free-loading bloated government bureaucrats want.

If, WMJ, your readership at the ajc is increasing, it is only because the federal government is borrowing money from our children’s futures to spend right now on imbecilic “officials” who will soon cause us to tap out financially. When that happens, we can kiss “recovery” goodbye. A “recovery” based upon printing money and green jobs fantasies is not one to last very long.

If, on the other hand, your readership is decreasing, well, you’ve shown quite clearly why that can and should happen every day–uncreative and unintelligent writing.

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“Didnt the president for FY 2009 also take the wars in off of supplemental budgets and add them to the regular budget?”

short answer: Yes

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“Uh-oh…. Pres Obama’s going to get kicked out of the Socialist Society”

that’s okay … he’s the secretary / treasurer of the muslim brotherhood (knows the secret handshake and EVERYthing)

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USinUK

February 16th, 2011
10:30 am

jt – for it to be effect, it needs to be pithier than that … yours barely makes any sense.

Thanks for the constructive crit.

How is this.

“Fools have no interest in good government: they only want ignore their local communities, their local homeless and hungry children, and other local problems, and instead,…. send their money into a black-hole Washington cess-pool where it will used by corrupt politicians to buy votes in order to maintain their respective power, at the same time , these same fools want to COMPLAIN when no problems are solved, they are fleeced out of their hard earned money,and their respective standard of living is diminished along with their personal wealth,.”. Comman Sense,101 , jt.

Is that pithy enough?

I will admit, there is no shortage of R&D Federalie worshipping fools, but …………the evidence is clear.
The majority of freedom-loving americans are catching on.

As is the world.(especially the Mid-east.).

So be it.

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jm: We’ve come a long ways since Kennedy’s “ask not what your country can do for you” days

That’s right. Ask what you can do for your country. You know, like PAYING TAXES.

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10:42 – dum … dum … dum … dum da-dum …. dum da-dum ….

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“We’ve come a long ways since Kennedy’s “” days…. we’ve come a long ways in the wrong direction.”

We have. Now Kennedy might say “ask not what your country can do for you, except those who can best afford it – them we give a pass”

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SoCo 10:42 – there’s no such thing as a lockbox…. its not possible and doesn’t exist. Once the money is in the government’s hands, they are free to spend it as they see fit by law and by principle. If you want retirement savings, don’t depend on the government for them. They must be put under individual control, not the government’s.

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The current budget crisis should be laid at the feet of the administrations responsible for it…….the Reagan and GWB administrations

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jm needs a new brown bag to breath in and out of. The one he has been using appears to have blown out.

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jm: It is ok to put more than one thought in a single post so you don’t end up being 5 out of the last 10 posts.

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Dudley – Ronnie is dead and W is not interested. Go to plan B. We can cut down on ss and use England’s plan for medicine – two asprin and stiff upper lip. And plenty of morphine for those really sick.

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“Is your average American ready to swallow his/her pride and acknowledge the multi-polar world in which we now live — where economic might and soft power is as important as military might”

I think a LOT of “average” Americans ARE…the problem is getting our POLITICIANS to understand that.

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larry – and I’ll bet a lot of those are in homeland security … will he be willing to let THOSE jobs go???

but … but … but … THE BORDER!!!

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odd people address the what you can do for your country, as in pay taxes and such but not a word for those asking what the country can do for you.

People should pay their taxes and they should be able to claim deduction for giving to charity as well, as a donation to charity is helping the nation as a whole.

But we also need far fewer people asking the country to do for them.

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I my have to upgrade my view of our senior senator – sounds like he is working with Coburn.

“President Barack Obama defended his budget proposal Tuesday against criticism that it was too timid, as a bipartisan group of senators moved on their own to address the long-term spending issues the White House budget ducked.
…

“The president called Medicare and Medicaid the biggest drivers of long-term deficit growth. And he said his bipartisan debt commission’s plan “still provides a framework for discussion,” even though his budget did not pick up most of its recommendations.

“Meantime, the center of gravity for addressing long-term federal budget issues appeared to have moved to the Senate.

“Six senators—three Democrats and three Republicans—hope to finish converting the debt commission’s recommendations into legislative language, according to Senate aides and a lawmaker involved with the process.

“Sen. Mark Warner (D., Va.), one of the group’s leaders, said in an interview a framework of the bill will be brought before a group of 25 senators after the Presidents Day recess to decide whether to bring it to the Senate floor for debate or break it into smaller pieces.
…

“So far, White House officials have offered no assistance, Senate aides said Tuesday. “They’re taking a step back and seeing how this shakes out,” said one Democratic Senate aide.

“Other senators leading the effort were Democrats Dick Durbin of Illinois and Kent Conrad of North Dakota, and Republicans Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, Mike Crapo of Idaho and Saxby Chambliss of Georgia.

” ‘This budget is a missed opportunity,’ House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R., Mich.) said at a hearing Tuesday. ‘There is nothing on entitlement reform, and there is little more than lip service about getting the deficit under control.’ “

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USinUK

February 16th, 2011
10:45 am

jt – I think you need to look up the word “pithy”

dictionary.com is your friend

Okay let me try this.

“Those that have faith in the Federal government to do what is right,
are on a one way street,
and they ain’t coming back”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv24N8H1KyI

The russkis and the chinese know this.

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“But we also need far fewer people asking the country to do for them.”

Wellll…here’s a thought: if big businesses would, for the good of the country, sacrifice SOME of their short-term profit gains to hire a few extra people, there would BE fewer people asking for the country to “do for them”

And the money they would help circulate through the economny would have a great effect on helping the economy to recover, which would mean jobs for even more people – who also would no longer need the country to “do for them”

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The House GOP is proposing budget moves they know won’t be accepted

Of course! Y’all didn’t think they actually intended to accomplish anything while that you-know-what still occupies the White House, did you? How would they play the VICTIM card, wailing and gnashing their teeth that they’re TRYING to fix things but these eeeeeeeevil Dems won’t LET them, if they actually worked together to accomplish something?

Much more fun to cry “Oh, boo hoo! Please please please make those eeeevil Dems go away next year so they can finally do something right!” They promise to propose something workable AFTER they return the government to one party rule like they had through most of the last decade when everything was friggin AWESOME here in the Utopian States of America.

Personal responsibility? Not when there are elected Democrats to blame!!!

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Personally, I think that if the money ain’t in your pocket, or bank account, to cover the purchase, then you can’t afford it

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” America won’t last with such a miserable excuse for a “leader”.”

Now now… we made it through 2000 to 2008 didn’t we?

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jt – you’re close … maybe if it was a one-way street to DisappointmentLand …

however, when you loop in the chinese and the russians, you’re losing the plot – particularly when you look at China’s 9.3% GDP in 2010

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Dear Mick @ 10:44, “Why don’t we end all wars? Let’s face it, we’re broke..” Your observation, that war is expensive, is undoubtedly true. Surrendering freedom is always cheaper than preserving it.

There are always enslavers out there, people who will steal our freedom one piece at a time. I think it undoubtedly true that “peace” and “freedom” are mutually exclusive, that one can have one or the other, but not both for any extended period of time.

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USinUK

February 16th, 2011
10:54 am

Did the newest proposal not call for a reduction in the amount that could be claimed, only by the wealthy?

If not my apologies for including it.

If i am correct about that, do you think it is a good thing to take away an incentive for those with money to give as much as they want or can to those in need?

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Doggone – “sacrifice SOME of their short-term profit gains to hire a few extra people”

If there is a true need for an extra warm body, a busniess will hire that person. If not, that business risks further growth and quality product.

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Southern Comfort @ 10:06

“Personally, I don’t think health care should be a for-profit area, as I think it’s morally wrong to try to make a profit based on the wellness or sickness of a person.”

————————————————————————————–

I agree. I believe both health care and education, should be, basically, non-profit.

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A good start on that somehow would be to adopt healthy lifestyle choices. It wouldn’t hurt if the health care providers would stop ripping us off, as well. I’ve never met anyone on Medicaid that wasn’t taking 5 or 6 prescription drugs.

The GOP is just blustering. They know the cuts aren’t going to pass the Senate or the president’s veto pen. Spending has to be reduced carefully over a number of years to give the economy time to adjust to the new realities. And we’re all going to have to start paying taxes and stop talking on the phone 24/7.

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US GDP 2010 – 14.8 TRILLION
CHINA GDP 2010 – 5.88 TRILLION

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These quotes may restore my faith in Congress:

“In the last two years, under President Obama, the federal government has added 200,000 new federal jobs,” Mr. Boehner told reporters. “If some of those jobs are lost, so be it. We’re broke.”

Restoring faith on lies….. Doesn’t surprise me at all….

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Ragnar: Your observation, that war is expensive, is undoubtedly true. Surrendering freedom is always cheaper than preserving it.

Two sentences that have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

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WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 16th, 2011
11:09 am

Thanks for that. It should hush some of the gloom and doomers. And the federal government still owns most of its own debt.

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thomas: Go do something productive and start your own sucessful corporation and YOU can start to hire all of these people and see if your theory works.

You first.

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RW-(the original)

Regarding “and bring annual domestic spending to its lowest share of the economy since Dwight Eisenhower.”

True, the planned budgets have assumptions. Haven’t got to the ‘annual DOMESTIC’ spending chart yet, but looking at overall, even inflating the assumptions, it’s not far off of Eisenhower.

Regardless of that, isn’t the real message “We’ve had a couple of crises. We’ve taken temporary measure to stop the bleeding and stabilize the economy. It was horribly expensive. But now that we’re getting out of that, this level of spending will not continue. We’ll get on track with my original plan, to set new priorities, shift spending from historical areas to new areas and keep spending to the low levels we saw fifty years ago.”

Put that way, it sounds rather Reaganesque, doesn’t it?

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As an example of budgetary buffoonery The Regime wants to spend $ 200 million (billion) (trillion) on Choo Choo Trains.

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/02/biden-vows-to-jump-canyon-by-amtrak.html

Please eliminate all funding for NPR, PBS, The National Endowment for Trash, and teleprompter maintenance. We need new sources of funds other than raising taxes on those of us who work for a living. Sell the National Parks to Disney. Legalize prostitution, drugs, gambling, gladiator competitions, duels, bull and bear fights, and pin the tail on the journalist. And let’s raffle off Jug Ear’s Birth Certificate.

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Adam

February 16th, 2011
11:12 am

Aww, are you doggone’s grand son?

Cute!

BTW I have done exactly that in my short life.

Didn’t like the stress and I only had 4 employees.

But excellent pre-pubescent retort.

Call me something now so I can say ………

“I’m rubber and your glue, everything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you”

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Soco 11:13 – um, no. unless you prohibited the “lockbox” from purchasing US Treasuries, Agencies, Muni’s, etc.. Then, and only then would you start to have something semi-safe.

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thomas – I might be wrong, but I think that was an old proposal that was jettisoned (like I said, I’m not sure – so if anyone knows the latest and greatest, feel free to bat me about the head with it)

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@TnGelding

No prob, I just want to be clear that the US is far and away the highest producing country in the world and I am so tired of hearing all this doom and gloom, mainly from the left about how terrible the US has become. Quit whining and how about getting up and doing something about it? I can tell you one simple fact, adding to government and increasing spending is no way to get yourself out of a deficit if that’s what your concerned with and that seems to be the hot topic in Washington these days. If your mentality is that the govt will take care of you good luck with that!!

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**Sell the National Parks to Disney. Legalize prostitution, drugs, gambling, gladiator competitions, duels, bull and bear fights, and pin the tail on the journalist. And let’s raffle off Jug Ear’s Birth Certificate.

Wow, now that’s both creative and enlightening, way to go..

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Sorry folks. I meant 11:09

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Brain cramps today

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RW-(the original)

have a good one –

back to my taxes…..

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Why are Republicans so quick to volunteer others to write checks to pay down the debt that they whine about being too big and not something to be passed on to the next generation. I think Republicans just like to whine.

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National debt, going up in smoke. You can watch it live…. and even profit from it if you so desire.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=TBT+Basic+Chart&t=6m

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“If there is a true need for an extra warm body, a busniess will hire that person. If not, that business risks further growth and quality product”

Funny! When *I* say that I get told I don’t know anything about how businesses operate. But I did say “for the good of the COUNTRY”

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- Tax cuts are good because SURPLUS
- Tax cuts are good because INCREASE REVENUE
- Tax cuts are good because ECONOMY
- Surplus never existed, except if I want tax cuts.

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Jay: “If we simply allow the Bush tax cuts to expire as now scheduled in 2012,”

Will that be “for everyone” or will we carve out a way to squeeze more out of the “rich” only?

As I recall, the figure bandied about for the “cost” of extended the Bush tax cuts for the “rich” would cost around $700B over 10 years (about $70B/year), but that the cost for extending them for everyone else was $3.1T over 10 years (or about $310B/year).

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Other than my own, I have difficulties in grasping a budget so “OUT-RAGE-US”.

House Dem: White House energy cuts would ‘literally freeze’ people

“It would have real-world consequences for some pretty powerless people,” Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) said Tuesday. “People would literally freeze.”

Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.) warned the cuts could force low-income families to cut back on cooking meals to stay warm.

“They’ll buy a space heater and put their lives in danger,” DeLauro told reporters.

Senate Democrats have also slammed the energy cuts. “Talk about misplaced, off-track priorities,” said Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.). “I won’t support a budget that dumps billions of dollars into high-speed rail while cutting something as basic as heat for family homes across Montana and America.”

Mr. President….looks like you’ve been given the cold shoulder.

Doesn’t look like Americans are buying into the “improved” economy either.

Poll: Most Americans Uneasy About the U.S. Economy

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“Why are Republicans so quick to volunteer others to write checks to pay down the debt”

Oh, Taxpayer. Please read the post again. You’ll see Mick voluteered himself, but then backed out when I provided the site to make a payment.

“I think Republicans just like to whine.”

And I think some Left-nuts don’t like to read.

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“But you must be right it is those aweful rich business owners fault, none of the blame falls to the american worker”

I never said anything like that

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Mick is not the one sounding delirious, “nice guy”. Neither do you though. Delirium would be a copout in your case.

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carlosgv: You are correct. It is much more likely there will be a continual kicking of the can across the aisle, or passing of the hot potato, or whatever metaphor you want to use.

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SoCo 11:34 – tell me what said legislation looks like

“Legislation can limit what and where the money can be used. “

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“I’ll pay my share, blowhard, just to shut the yaps of people like you. Will you pay yours.”

What the EFF are you talking about, ToolBox? I pay my fair share each and every day/year. Why the hell do you question the amount of taxes I pay, ToolBox?

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Typical democrat – raise, raise taxes & cut defense. Of all those programs you mentioned with the exception of defense is not in the constitution.

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Because, Nice Guy, you haven’t cut a check over and beyond your IRS obligation. Clearly that means, according to the implied logic you have presented before, that you are not paying your fair share.

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MiltonMan: Defense being in the constitution doesn’t mean we should spend like we can’t get drunk enough off of nukes and planes. The first step to fixing the addiction to spending on the military is to admit you have a problem

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“As long as the debt exists NO ONE is paying their “fair share””

Now, Doggone, that logic doesn’t make a lick of sense.

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Adam – ” Clearly that means, according to the implied logic you have presented before, that you are not paying your fair share.”

(Buzzer sounding). Wrong again.

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Thanks for the replies to “Nice Guy”, Doggone and Adam. Unfortunately, I don’t think you’ll get through that skull though.

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And Paul, I ask in seriousness because I am not sure how it is being counted.

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MPercy: Where is the 1.8T figure coming from. I thought it was 1.4T. Also, I’m pretty sure most of the TARP loans have already been repaid.

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Adam/ToolBox – you libs just keep complaining. You guys have your boxers all bunched up because I simply provided a link to Mick showing him where he can help chip away at the debt….since he said we was willing to pitch in.

You guys are pathetic.

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jm

I’m not familiar with writing legislation. However, it seems as if GA can write special legislation for SPLOST funds to do specific things with taxes collected, it shouldn’t be too friggin hard for the feds to do likewise. Also, if a private corporation or enterprise, such as the US Chamber of Commerce, can keep foreign funds separate from domestic funds, can’t someone from that group show legislators how to do likewise?

Trust me, if I knew how to write such legislation, I would have already submitted to the house of jackasses already.

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“It only doesn’t make sense to those committed to illogicality”

Riiight. Let the drunks/addicts in D.C continue to spend our future away, ever increasing the debt. And you’ll keep saying, ‘Gee, we still have debt so I must not be paying my fair share.’

I expect better from you, Doggone.

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“Let the drunks/addicts in D.C continue to spend our future away, ever increasing the debt”

Nope, I never addressed that. I was speaking solely of the EXISTING DEBT. We owe it, and the only way to reduce or eliminate it is to PAY IT DOWN. We can’t do that with spending cuts, it IS going to take tax increases. We ALL know it, but some people want to pretend there’s another way…any other way, some other way…oh please, oh please, there MUST BE another way.

There isn’t.

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“I was speaking solely of the EXISTING DEBT.”

Maybe, but you didn’t say that.

~~~~~~~~~~~

See ‘ya real soon!

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SoCo 11:50 – well, HOPE was a new entitlement, not new funding used to displace existing spending.

Truth is, here’s what happens, then I gotta go. Let’s say you just wanted SS to be spent on “infrastructure” to use one example. Well, the the pols go: “well, we don’t have to fund that with general revenue or gas taxes any more”. So they use that money to go spend on other things.

The problem is simple, and I’m not being ideological here. Once it is in their hands, it is a slush fund. They can and should do whatever they deem is the best use of those funds. The only option is a sovereign wealth funds, but those are incredibly messy also. So the only real option is putting some individual control over it, with guardrails there to prevent people from doing something incredibly stupid.

People don’t ask the government to drive their card. And they can manage their investments as well, within some very strict parameters. Cheers, folks, we’re screwed

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“So the only real option is putting some individual control over it, with guardrails there to prevent people from doing something incredibly stupid”

do you ask your insurance company to give you “individual control” over the money you send them?

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Dire straits. Sultans of swing. Yeah

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-Saving Social Security is relatively easy. You don’t have to privatize it

Instead of lowering payments, why not let people invest 4% and get twice as much money on the back end? Sounds like a reasonable investment unless your a Democrat.

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@@,

We are back to business as usual and do not need to kick the seniors to the curb.

Sorry, perhaps after the next collapse you can steal their safety net.

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woof, woof, RW

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Headline: “Possible Mexican Military Incursion On U.S. Soil”

Hummmmm ……………….. Poncho Villa ?

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“Possible Mexican Military Incursion On U.S. Soil”

It’s a MIRACLE! We were invaded and it only took 10 minutes…and no one knew anything about it, but we’re ALL in danger. Danger Danger

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“Tell that to the families of the two ICE Agents on the border that were just shot …….. one killed.”

They weren’t shot by the Mexican Military, or by the guys in that truck…so the two indicidents are totally unrelated

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Sorry, there have been cases where the Mexican military is suspected of having been directly involved or protected the assailants.

You’re a piece of work.

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Wow, I agree with three out of four points today! Medicare simply is not viable in the long term. 130 million (non farm employment) workers cannot provide state of the art health care for 300 million people. Not if they also want food and shelter, the numbers just don’t work out. The only answer long-term is benefit denial. Considering how many people incur more than half of their lifetime medical expenses in the last year of life, that’s the logical place to start. Bring on the death panels, we need death panels! BTW, altough the demographics are different, the same fundamental long-term problems with Medicare will bring down Obamacare1

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“You cannot sustain a globally dominant military without a globally dominant economy, and if you try to do so, you weaken your economy still further.”

In WMJ logic then, spending on magical entitlements doesn’t weaken the economy. Somehow military spending has this effect exclusively.

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MPercey

Real question for you. Does the $1.8T deficit include the TARP expenditures? I would think so. But then where do the TARP repayments show up? Those are current-year revenues, and are being used to shift the Obama deficits downward by the amount of repayments, aren’t they?
In other words, TARP expenditures were largely loans that were counted when they were spent (increasing Bush deficit, albeit in a temporary fashion as they have largely been repaid, except for Fannie, Freddie, and the GM & Chrysler), and then when the repayments are made, Obama’s budget get credit for the “revenue”.

Darn fun question.

Excuse the lack of cites, but what I read is that at the outset, Treasure and CBO had different ideas how to account for it. Got to the heart of your question. But, although the Administration had authority to use about $700 billion, they used less than $500 billion. Then the repayments started and the cost, near as I can tell now, is about $50 billion (what’s not repaid). So, without using this as an excuse not to do my taxes and taking any more time, it appears the way it’s been handled is, there was the initial estimate, what the gov’t could be on the hook for, then as they actually used the money it was a revised amount (why it takes a lonnnng time to get actual budget numbers for a prior fiscal year) and then it was paid back and it’s revised again.

So although this affecta the totals for 08 and 09 and 10, and give more or less ammo to the ‘who’s at fault for how much’ arguments, it does even out in the cumulative debt.

Remembering that TARP was Pres Bush’s plan that was embraced by Pres Obama, I kinda look at any bottom-line costs as charged to Bush. It’s like ‘you broke it, you fix it.’ Obama has much more political exposure on the cost of the stimulus – but the difficulty there is, it’s nearly impossible to quantify ‘was it worth it?’ With TARP at least we can say ‘system stabilized and here’s what hadn’t been repaid.” With the stim it’s “we spent this much and….. here’s where we are….. and….. it would’ve been this much worse……” It’s a pick your side and make your argument scenario.

Break’s over. Back to taxes.

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Kammy:

Hey ! I woke you up !

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Tea Party fun and games hits brick wall with public protests in Wisconsin as thousands turn out to protect attack on public sector unions.

According to police estimates, some 13,000 demonstrators appeared outside the state capitol in Madison on Tuesday, a number that far exceeded expectations. They were joined by hundreds of local high school students who walked out of class to join to protesters.

Any interest in a post on this topic, Jay?

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“They were joined by hundreds of local high school students who walked out of class to join to protesters.”

There’s your sign of a truly miserable and irelevant protest.

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Nice Guy: “There’s your sign of a truly miserable and irelevant protest.”

Exactly what was said of the Egyptian one in the early going.

Which makes me hope they keep it up – and step it up.

Maybe we can throw a wrench in the wrench in the Tea Party wheel which will cause the belt to fly off and the engine to grind to a halt. That would be truly sublime.

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Nice column Jay and every point you made was right on target.

But I disagree on Medicare being such a problem to solve. Tie the eligibility age for Medicare to the eligibility age for full Social Security. That solves the problem as dozens of studies show.

The real demon in health care is Medicaid. Medicaid is tied to health and income, and administred by 50 states as they choose within federal guidelines. So if you are unhealty, can’t work, 50 years old, you will soon qualify for Medicaid. This is the real test of our ability to rein in spending over the next 30 to 50 years.

And Pentagon spending is a demon. A large percentage of the population have been “conditioned” to believe that the USA should police the world.
That must change before any meaningful controls can be put on Pentagon spending.

Notice my use of Pentagon spending. A two focus groups were fed the same data on Pentagon spending. One group got the data as cuts in “defense spending”. The other group received the data as cuts in “Pentagon spending”. A large majority said NO to defense cuts. A large majority said OK to Pentagon cuts. Go figure!

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“Exactly what was said of the Egyptian one in the early going. ”

Um, Leftwing, the average age of the protesters in Egypt was mid 20’s. Not 16. And they were protesting, among other things, the 30% unemployement.

Mighty large difference, bubba. But, you keep hoping for that wrench.

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http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/3-billion-battle-over-839971.html

I guess y’all have seen this. To me this is symbolic of how I will view the GOPs stance on budget reform. The only people, person really, who wants to keep this in the budget is Boehner. Why? Because it’s being built in his state. If the GOP can kick this one off the budget, then I’ll be willing to listen to making other comprimises, even social ones. But you know what? I don’t think they will get rid of this engine and then, ladies and gentlemen, we will know exactly where the GOP stand on budget. “Make other people pay, but leave mine alone.”

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Mick 1:02 : Let’s see how much media coverage this gets. Ever notice that if you can get five or more tea partiers together, all the networks dive in?

That’s for sure. Well I hear that FOX News now has crews set up at the protest site, doubtless so they can start spinning their demagogic hay about socialist agitation. So guess that means CNN will be dragged along grudgingly.

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“So guess that means CNN will be dragged along grudgingly.”

Right, Left Wing, because Rachel Maddow never, EVER spins any demagogic hay.

Scoff.

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guy

Why are you a toolbox for the rich? Are the hammer or broken level perhaps?

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“Why are you a toolbox for the rich?”

What makes you say that?

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Nice Guy: “Um, Leftwing, the average age of the protesters in Egypt was mid 20’s. Not 16. And they were protesting, among other things, the 30% unemployement.”

The high schoolers in Madison are no doubt in the minority here. But get em started early, I say. We’re going to need them in the thousands in the years to come, so all the better.

As for 30% unemployment, give it a few years. The phrase “we’re all Egyptians now” isn’t as big of a cliche as it may sound at first.

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jm

You mention HOPE, and I mention SPLOST. Any examples of SPLOST funds becoming slush funds? The funds raised under SPLOST have a defined purpose to be used for. It’s nowhere near as hard as you try to make it. It is only hard because our legislators lack the testicular fortitude to do right by the citizens of this country.

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Nice Guy: “Right, Left Wing, because Rachel Maddow never, EVER spins any demagogic hay”

No actually she’s pretty fair and balanced.

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“But get em started early, I say. We’re going to need them in the thousands in the years to come, so all the better.”

Left wing management – Well said.

And many of those High School Juniors and Seniors will be voting in 2012.

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“And many of those High School Juniors and Seniors will be voting in 2012.”

Too bad they’ll get their news from shows like ET and the Kardashians. Ah, yes, thousands of ill informed voters. Perfect.

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what a joke

“If the president is presented with a bill that undermines critical priorities or national security through funding levels or restrictions, contains earmarks or curtails the drivers of long-term economic growth and job creation while continuing to burden future generations with deficits, the president will veto the bill.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49603.html#ixzz1E9DTPvPZ

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Mary Elizabeth 11:04 am Southern Comfort @ 10:06 “Personally, I don’t think health care should be a for-profit area, as I think it’s morally wrong to try to make a profit based on the wellness or sickness of a person.”————————————————————————————–I agree. I believe both health care and education, should be, basically, non-profit.

I agree, and further, since food is critical to life, I think food should be basically non-profit as well. Well have to heat our homes and drive our cars, so those should be non-profit too. And since information is the lifeblood of our economy now, then access to that information should be non-profit too.

“I don’t think health-care should be a for-profit area”. Well, I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with it being a for-profit area. Our thoughts/beliefs are directly in opposition. If you believe health-care should be non-profit, then get yourself a bunch of like-minded friends, put up your money and start some non-profit health-care centers. You can compete with the for-profit centers me & my friends put up.

Except that I suspect when you say not-for-profit, you really mean government (taxpayer) funded. Those are two very different things…

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fine. go have the serious conversation mr. president. i’ll reserve judgment until when you guys are done. In the meantime, I’m shorting treasuries.

“It’s a matter of everybody having a serious conversation about where we want to go and then ultimately getting in that boat at the same time so it doesn’t tip over.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49603.html#ixzz1E9DyIoZ9

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MPercy @ 1:27

but….but….but….those…people…their health….

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“I’m shorting treasuries.”

ticker TBT much?

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“To which I suggest that as ET has been on the air since 81 there is a large possibility you got your news from that and maybe Dallas…..”

Only back in my younger days, when I was an ill informed voter.

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oh and nice guy

the more obvious point is all those brave young folks out there and guess what? ET and the Kardashians have not reported on the WI governor’s attempt to take away workers rights.

So they must not do as you say……

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“have not reported on the WI governor’s attempt to take away workers rights.”

It only takes a couple kids to suggest skipping class for a local protest before half the school empties out.

Impressed I am not.

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Nice Guy 1:30 – I’m long TBT (a bit of oxymoron there) Anyway, yes. Not long enough yet, but getting longer TBT by the month…

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“it’s wrong to paint our young folks as feckless as you were in your own youth.”

Granny, I understand your admiration for the young folks. But based onwhat I’ve seen of the young folks today, ‘well-informed teenager’ is a bit of an oxymoron.

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Nice Guy

that’s sad for you

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jm @ 1:35

Good stuff!

I haven’t dove into that one yet, but I have loaded up a bit on a solid metals fund.

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Nice Guy

February 16th, 2011
1:21 pm

Which means you don’t think ol’ Rush is fair and balanced?

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Nice Guy 1:21: So is Limbaugh.

Limbaugh is a proto-fascist enabler. He’s a spiritual termite colony that’s literally eating the frame of the nation’s spiritual house.

His true colors were shown this week when he used the expression “go Egypt” against the Obama administration of health-care repeal fails. Which shows the following: Limbaugh was offended somewhere deep down by the events in Egypt. That offended his world view. He knows instinctively which side the thugs are on, and naturally he wanted them to win.

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I think totalitarian’s like Bookman and CT should be paying 100% tax rates because the gubmint knows
how to spend their money better than they do.

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GT football get much more from what they have to work with than UGA by a long shot.

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Nice Guy – Yeah, TBT is already up a bit over the last 6 months. But if you look at the #’s, there’s plenty of downside left for Treasuries…. I’d really prefer a canadian version of TBT, but I haven’t figured out how to get access to it yet.

Horizons BetaPro U.S. 30-Year Bond Bear Plus ETF (HTD) – denominated in Canadian $s

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Time for Obama to take off the kid gloves. List MASSIVE spending cuts in the sacred cows to Republicans, and let THEM sputter about how “necessary” those areas of spending are!

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Bookman…when you say the word “budget”…do you mean the uncontrol spending this administration continues to do with the ever rising debt load? Or the lies that Obama spouted during presenting the budget?

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Granny….did you get me banned from CTuckers blogs?

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“GT football get much more from what they have to work with than UGA by a long shot.”

If GT continued their success of the inaugural PJ season, I’d agree. But they haven’t.

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love how Rush gets all the Left-nut’s knickers all bunched up!

He’s just a radio DJ on WOLD-d-d-d…

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Nice Guy: “I love how Rush gets all the Left-nut’s knickers all bunched up!”

Nah, What gets my knickers in a twist in hearing a Democrat like Barack Obama spout recycled Republican talking points (e.g. saying the private sector is the natural job creator, tripe like that).

Limbaugh? He just moves me to say things like: “Limbaugh is a one-man termite colony that devours, a spiritual blow-torch that’s burning out the soul of the nation.” You know, that sort of stuff. Pretty mild stuff, don’t you think?

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I think it is funny how the libs say that Rush is irrelavant but then quote his radio broadcast all of the time. What about his ratings?

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Normal 1:50 – fine then, Obama will be blamed for a government shut down after the debt ceiling isn’t increased

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Nice Guy – a lot of the treasury ETF’s are leveraged, so people just need to be cognizant of that going in. I think HTD is, I know TBT is. So there’s volatility in there. There are shorter duration and unleveraged funds with lower volatility if people don’t like the vol associated with leveraged funds.

I just think the downside is limited… I mean, aside from japan, it’s hard to imagine T’s going to 1.5% with the Fed printing as much as it is and the USG running as much red ink as it is….

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…when I was an ill informed voter.

Some things never change.

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Nice Guy

are they/were they ill-informed in tha age range we are talking about?

if so why would you allow that?

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Bosch – “Nothing ever changes”

Isn’t that the damn truth. Comes in cycles. Yet we all still show up and argue about it.

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Tick…tick…tick….

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Hi Bosch

George W claims he was banned and can’t for the life of himself figure out why…..

that guy is sooooo all about personal responsibility!

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“2) An increase of 5% on the lowest bracket, and lower percentages of increase on the other brackets, is just not fair.”

But was it fair when the lower bracket went down by 5% and the upper bracket went down by 3.5%? Why do I get the feeling it was just fine with you…that your idea of “fairness” is asymmetrical?

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Granny…..once again you guys continue to make allegations with no evidence. Some people never change.

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Nice Guy – the big guys are shifting sides…. to our side…. gotta get ahead of the curve

Liberty Mutual CEO Says U.S. Policymakers ‘Debase the Dollar’
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A

By Noah Buhayar

Feb. 16 (Bloomberg) — Liberty Mutual Holding Co., the second-largest policyholder-owned property-casualty insurer in the U.S., is expanding abroad and shortening the duration of bond holdings because deficit spending and Federal Reserve policies may weaken the dollar.

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Adam @11:49 am MPercy: Where is the 1.8T figure coming from. I thought it was 1.4T.

I was asking Paul about his post (see the first posting here) where he said: “The latest GAO estimate, according to that table, is the Bush budget racked up a deficit of $1.8 trillion.”

So my question was “were was TARP expenditures included in that deficit, and if so, were TARP repayment counted as revenue in Obama’s budgets”. Did TARP (mostly loans) make Bush’s deficit larger that year by about $300B, and Obama’s subsequent deficits smaller by about $200B (as TARP loans and profits are paid)?

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jm – “the big guys are shifting sides…. to our side…. gotta get ahead of the curve”

I hear ya. The dollar issue is a shame. Just as the market gets all excited about earnings and M&A activity.

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Obama Budget Shows Hunter S. Thompson Was Right: Caroline Baum
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=ae2lPEkX5.rM

Baum: you are the problem….

A great read.

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The Republicans are going to take on entitlements. Obama is going to lay back and hope they take enough hits from the public to get him re-elected. His budget is laden with tax increases on the wealthy and on business, so he plays to his left wing base with it. Good strategy? It all depends on how serious voters are about reduced spending and the deficit. Obama could win or he and the Democrats could lose real big in 012. It should be quite interesting watching events unfold leading up to the national election.

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Paul @ 2:13

Funny.

I remember him saying that.

One can only hope he sees your post today…

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Dammit…just as soon as I think their doing NOPE just as soon as I think they’re doing

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Dear Adam @ 11:11, “Ragnar: Your observation, that war is expensive, is undoubtedly true. Surrendering freedom is always cheaper than preserving it. Two sentences that have absolutely nothing to do with one another.”

The explanation is in the second paragraph. Many young people fail to appreciate the truth that peace and freedom are mutually exclusive over the long term. Freedom is preserved only by breaking the peace; peace is accomplished only by surrendering freedom. It has to do with the controlling nature of a substantial portion of the population, an innate trait for far too many.

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Granny to your point regarding Ms. Tucker’s forum, she attracts every bigot and racist from Dahlonega to Douglasville. From Snellville to Fayetteville and beyond.

A veritable viper pit of the most puerile and hateful trash ever written. And that is not just hyperbole.

Trying to have reasoned and adult discourse over there is a huge challenge, and frequently, impossible.

Truly an environment where the inmates are running the asylum. And if she banned every one of those disgusting, childish louts, it would take up half of her day.

And why I have virtually given up on blogging there…

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Nice Guy, they say that he got into it somehow.

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On a lighter note…

Today is National Slap A Cop Day! Founded by Zsa Zsa Gabor…

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haha grow up.

And right on self-destructive cue, it is obvious why this particular childish lout was banned from there, isn’t it?

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AmVet….great post….I would expect nothing less from you.

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In the 1700s, the U.S. was an agrarian nation with 90 percent of workers engaged in farming, according to Veronique de Rugy, senior research fellow at George Mason University’s Mercatus Center in Arlington, Virginia. Today the U.S. economy has highly productive agribusinesses employing less than 2 percent of all (legal) workers. Yet “the federal government continues to subsidize agriculture,” de Rugy said. “Spending for the Department of Agriculture in real terms went from $95 billion in 2000 to $142 billion in 2010.”

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George W

AmVet was discussing the bloggers at Ms Tucker’s.

Your post, in response to his criticism of said bloggers, was not to explore the reasons why, or to comment regarding them; instead, it was to criticize Ms Tucker.

?????????????????????????????????????????????

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Thanks, G.

I’ve read his bigoted posts over there. And those quotes of his are but the latest in a long string of them. The guy is a real racist work of art. (Too bad the only color in his palette is white!)

No worries, he’ll “reappear” with a new and improved moniker in a couple of weeks…

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AmVet 2:37

Aahhhh, that explains it.

Always easier to criticize others than to engage in a bit of self reflection, eh?

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Except that I suspect when you say not-for-profit, you really mean government (taxpayer) funded. Those are two very different things

Your spidey senses are way off. I have no problem with non-profits or other people doing health care. I don’t think the government should be the one controlling it. I just think it is morally wrong to be in the business of health and be more focused on bottom line profits as opposed to the health and well being of the person you’re trying to help.

A business will be a business regardless to what industry it’s in. Co-ops would be a more logical solution to our health care system for me as opposed to what it is now. Don’t try to assume anything about something I’m trying to say. If you have a question about a point I have, just ask. I have no problem clarifying a point. I’m not one of those who need the government to bail me out. I’m also not one of those who think everything should be open for profit mongers either.

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Left wing management @1:40 pm His true colors were shown this week when he used the expression “go Egypt” against the Obama administration of health-care repeal fails. Which shows the following: Limbaugh was offended somewhere deep down by the events in Egypt. That offended his world view. He knows instinctively which side the thugs are on, and naturally he wanted them to win.

I don’t listen to Limbaugh, but from what you wrote, I got a 180 degree different take on what he meant. I took it to mean that if the legislative actions for repealing Obamacare fail, then the people (who by a fair majority favor repeal) take to the streets in vocal mass protest–i.e., “go Egypt”–then maybe the government will be inclined to listen to their demands.

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Disagree with most of your opinions, but this one seems to be pretty spot on. Defense budget needs to decrease (remember, planes and ships don’t hold ground), Medicare is impossible and we need to grit our teeth and pay a little more in taxes, from top to bottom. I would, however, really like to see a phasing out of social security that would cause it to disappear completely. I understand you can’t take it from someone who is in his sixties and has been planning on it, but you can sure take it from someone in his fourties and say “sorry, looks like you need to start saving some of your paycheck.” As a gen-Xer, I know social security will be gone by the time I retire and that any money I have put towards it is lost, but I would like to see a ‘phased withdrawl’ if you will. The sad fact is that social security is a Ponzi scheme that was doomed to failure from the start.

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Would you suggest the USG put all the SS funds into infrastructure? If you want to make that argument, then fine, a lot of that has happened

That’s not what I”m talking about. We may be on the same page, but looking at things from a different standpoint. What I’m saying is that a set-aside does not necessarily have to become a “slush fund”. Had previous administrations started to use SS as their private piggy bank, the SS fund would probably be a lot better off now. I have no problem with SS being it’s own thing, whether an umbrella government agency or quasi-private insurance company. What I think, is that SS taxes collected should have no bearing on the budget whatsoever. That was the original design and it held up that way until recent administrations.

If,by privatization, you mean letting a board administer the program and invest that money wisely so that it can maintain solvency, we’re talking the same thing. If you mean turn SS over to some investment firm so they can collect their fees and retirees end up with diminished returns, I can’t go for that.

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Paul, one thing about the George W’s of the world, you can quote their irrefutably bigoted words (blackies with their hands out) and they still neither admit to nor apologize for their cretinous comments.

No shame whatsoever.

But they will deflect and play stupid to perfection.

OK, off to the Sweatatorium of Pain.

For George:

WHITE POWER!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCITZh_Btyo

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Kammy:

You’re a hoot and a great person.

Ooops, forgot I’m consistently wrong.

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AmVet……you said it not me! haha but thank you.

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“She attracts some white people too.”

That qualifies for a Letter of Reprimand (or at least a Letter of Counseling) in today’s military -

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Kammy:

You’re a hoot and a great person.

Considering the source, thanks for the compliment.

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“Oops! That should have been Yusuf Stevens/2016″

Karma is a wonderful thing, isn’t it.

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Doggone/GA:
So the Federal government doesn’t make me pay them approximately 15% each quarter out of my earnings for social security?
Are you stating social security is good for you?

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soco – “If you mean turn SS over to some investment firm so they can collect their fees and retirees end up with diminished returns, I can’t go for that.”

I definitely don’t mean that. But I don’t mean a “board” either, because that creates a host of problems.

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Paul:
So, social security is actually insurance and not retirement. I am in the insurance profession and ssi is very expensive insurance in my opinion. Why can’t I opt out and take care of myself. I think freedom means I can fail or succeed.
Are you afraid to truly be free?

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jm

We’re probably on the same page then..

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Liberal Pariah

well I agree with part of your post….however I don’t think she sees
“EVERYTHING through the race prism” any more than any decent white, yellow, red, black or brown person on the planet.

(personally I am rosey beige)

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Truth

“My guess is you are a Federal employee and think things are free if the $ doesn’t come out of your check”

Good guess.

But wrong.

Self employed.

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Are people on here seriously still talking about the race thing? If there are biggots on either side of the color spectrum here, no one’s digital insults or opinions are going to change their views.

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Paul:
Why won’t you allow people to opt out of ssi? We don’t require people to purchase life or disability insurance. Do you think we should pass a law requiring people to purchase life, disability, long term care, health, dental, vision, etc. so we are all secure with no worries?

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Paul:
Let me guess again, you are self employed but your main client is the Federal government so you like the current system?

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It comes down to two points a view: people should make their own decisions and live with the consequences of those decisions OR people (other than those making the argument, of course) are too stupid to make their own decisions and need a government to do it for them to protect them from the consequences of potentially bad decisions. Fans of social security fall into the latter, opponents fall into the former.

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Truth

“Let me guess again, you are self employed but your main client is the Federal government so you like the current system?”

Ummm, you should know who one’s clients are has nothing to do with how much taxes owed are (not counting some special credits and such,of course).

BTW – I’m taking a break here from preparing my taxes for my accountant – LOL!

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Granny…why is that racist? please inform me what makes that racist?

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Paul:
Taxes are not dependent upon your clients but your income or cash flow is dependent upon your clients.

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Paul:
You are stating Social Security is an insurance program but I would state it is more of a retirement program. Either way, I wish it never began in the first place but all I know is if you want to keep it in place then there must be modifications to the benefits and funding. The longer SSI is ingnored the bigger the problem will be for someone to correct. My guess is they will push back the benefit age and eliminate income cap and make all income subject to SSI taxes.

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Granny….great job answering the question…..very typical.

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Southern Comfort (B.P.O.I.B.W.) @2:41 pm Except that I suspect when you say not-for-profit, you really mean government (taxpayer) funded. Those are two very different things.

SOCO Your spidey senses are way off. I have no problem with non-profits or other people doing health care. I don’t think the government should be the one controlling it. I just think it is morally wrong to be in the business of health and be more focused on bottom line profits as opposed to the health and well being of the person you’re trying to help.

Then they’re off. Wouldn’t be the first time. But I wasn’t really trying to be accusatory, just trying to point out that there is a marked difference between “non-profit” and “government funded”. But just to be clear: we have an environment *today* (and had even before O-care) in which non-profit health care organizations could operate alongside of for-profit organizations. No one is forced into for-profit health care–they may not be able to locate a non-profit, but that’s not quite the same thing.

The question would be “Why aren’t there more co-ops and non-profits?” If you and so many others feel this moral outrage at profits being made on health-care, what is it that you want to see done differently? Many seem to want to *force* (using government power) health care industry as a whole to become non-profit.

SOCO: A business will be a business regardless to what industry it’s in. Co-ops would be a more logical solution to our health care system for me as opposed to what it is now. Don’t try to assume anything about something I’m trying to say. If you have a question about a point I have, just ask. I have no problem clarifying a point. I’m not one of those who need the government to bail me out. I’m also not one of those who think everything should be open for profit mongers either.

I know. You’ve always been one of the most reasonable folks on these blogs, one who’s comments I may disagree (and then only sometimes) with but never object to.

But again, we already have a system that supports non-profit health care organizations. What do you think should be done differently? Market proponents will say (count me in this group) that if you provide a superior product at lower costs, you will drive your competitors out of the market…at last until they change to outperform you. So all a non-profit needs to do is offer superior products at lower costs–since they aren’t making a profit, they should at least have an edge there. So we are left to wonder why the non-profits aren’t driving more for-profits out of the marketplace?

P.S. What’s with the various letters? I must have missed that day…

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Granny…..hilarious!

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yep

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You progressives are hysterical. 14 trillion in debt and Obama still produces a deficit spending budget.

Absolutely, positively infriggincredible…

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Original

“and Obama still produces a deficit spending budget. ”

And the Congress, once they got the //proposal// countered with what, exactly?

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SoCom

Kinda sounds like a country song, doesn’t it?

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Paul…Obama is the president, you would think and hope he would lead on entitlements but there has been nothing of substance or consequence. You ask about the republican counter from the house, I believe that is still being finalized and it is my guess entitlements will be addressed.

It is also my guess that republicans will then be demonized by democrats and Obama even though they know entitlement spending must be addressed but are afraid to raise the issue.

Granted both parties have avoided this discussion for way too long which is one of the primary reasons we find ourselves near insolvent. However, back to my original point given the fact that Obama created his own debt commission and then does not even incorporate a single recommendation specific to entitlements is extremely disappointing and shows very weak, if any leadership.

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Kinda sounds like a country song, doesn’t it?

Only things missing are the pickup truck and the hound dog.

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Paul @3:06 pm I’d like a policy. Level payments dependent on income, capped. If I die, my wife gets an annuity with cost of living increases until the kids turn 18. My kids get covered thru high school. If my kid’s disabled, he gets payments forever. Oh yeah, and when my wife gets to her 60s she gets benefits, too. But if I live I get an annuity with guaranteed cost of living increases for about 20 years.

See, my policy, which costs the same as yours provides $255 to my wife if I die. I have no children. When my wife reaches age 60, she will be eligible to receive some payout on my policy, but her own policy (which she paid for too) also starts paying at that point. If we both should die before age 60, the Government keeps everything we’ve paid in–I cannot will any of the benefits to any other heirs.

My cost this year for this lovely package is a mere $4,485.60+$6,621.60, or $11,107.20 (once the portion my employer must pay by law “on my behalf”) is figured in, plus the same for my wife, but she is self employed and must pay the full amount herself. I’m pretty sure I can do better than that for $22K+ every year. I have been paying the maximum for about 15 years, and expect to do so until I retire (about 20 years from now), so I will have paid in about $300K, as will have my wife. If we live to our life expectancy, we will each take out about $435K. As an investment, this will provide a very poor rate of return.

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**that is total crap and you know it…try again**

Why, because you say so? If I recommend that you jump off the george washington bridge because it will be good fun or recommend that you buy some great property in the everglades, would you go for it?

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MPercy

I was responding to the “I’m an insurance guy and this is an expensive policy.”

Your situation may be different.

But… no one ever said life is fair, right?

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The budget fight in Washington right now is the pragmatic equivalent of arguing over which window to open on a train headed off a cliff. Both sides are arguing over a hundred billion when they should be talking about a trillion. Medicare is impossible to save, so don’t. Social Security could be saved, but why? Both transfer money from young working families to older, better off, retirees. End both and keep some level of basic welfare and Medicaid for the truly needy, regardless of age. Cut military spending dramatically, but don’t raise taxes — we pay plenty already.

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Muck….total blockhead loser; don’t quit your day job of sanitation engineer..

Keep your head buried in the garbage, perhaps reality will hit you in the head soon, I trust it will not be too painful…

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I know there is someone that cleans your office every day. I bet they don’t make near as much money as you do. If you will be so kind, please cut your salary 25 percent and give it to some person that cleans your office that is struggling to make ends meet. This would do more good than expecting me to pay more taxes.

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How exactly will cutting the funding for the corporation for public broadcasting do “serious damage”? Your suggestion does much to undermind the rest of your column. The whine and latte lovers can just pony up a little more at pledge time. Big deal.
The rest of us don’t need to subsidize the leftie’s private network.

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fitzgerald: I don’t want to make any assumptions, but unless you’re on the bottom bracket of the income tax table, then you have nothing to complain about when it comes to being taxed as much as you are, or as much as you would be if the tax cuts expired.

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Muck…the truth hurts but you truly need to wake the hell up…

If you cannot fathom that a president completely ignoring any form of entitlement reform in his budget that were recommended by a commission that he crafted is not lack of leadership then you have had a massive aneurism and just do not realize it yet.

Everyone knows that the entitlement reform recommendations need to be invoked in one form or another but the leadership must come from the president…oh well, that clearly is not going to happen.

I wish you well in your happy fantasy world of unicorns, lollipops, fairies and magic bunnies…

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real

Still with the name calling I see, when you can get past the lame insults, then we can have a serious debate or maybe that’s just not possible..

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Adam -NPR and Public Radio? Yeah, that the voice of reason. Next tell me how well the government has handled Unemployment, Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac, the post office, the VA, Katrina, and the hits just keep coming……

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Jay makes some good points here. But the credit he gives to Saxby Chambliss for his future endevors in regards to this issue is misplaced. Chambliss does not display bipartisanship, and will surely try to sabotage the process in hopes of making Obama and the democrats look bad. He is not the right guy for that leadership role.

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get real

Let me ask you something, how many blue ribbon commissions did the previous president have? Did he follow their recommendations? If I’m elected president, I will consider advice but if the majority of the people don’t want me to mess with something and I agree, then I’ll thank the commission and lead by my choice in the process. Just because you disagree with his actions does not preclude a lack of leadership. In fact, that is the essence of leadership…Now, I want you to notice my response included no insults…it’s possible..

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Please go to ” Dick Morris Reports ” and read the article the talks about the damage that Obama has done.
Very interesting.

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How many angles did they say were on the head of that pin? Our economy generates the greatest wealth and productivity in the world – we just don’t manage it for a balanced society. There are those who gladly take the money and run, while blaming anything and anybody for the results. That so many of the victims want to believe it’s ‘them’ and not those laughing all the way to the bank, is one of the great tragedies of modern America. Let us hope we are not reduced to the luck of a World War, as we were in the ’30’s for an end to our economic quagmire.

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“Medicare, on the other hand, is relatively impossible.”
———-

Jay, didn’t your Idiot Messiah, who you claim has done a good job, already fix the healthcare system and bend the cost curve down?

Where are your Idiot Messiah’s solutions to these entitlement problems?

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LBB: Where are your Idiot Messiah’s solutions to these entitlement problems?

Although we can’t ask her today, her book Atlas Shrugged should help you to discover what an Idiot Messiah would want done with so called entitlement programs.

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