Obama in Tucson: ‘We cannot use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on each other’

A good speech.

Did he make it out of AZ without having to show his papers?

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I noticed Sara made sure she injected herself into the conversation yesterday by delivering an asinine video ahead of the President’s speech.

She should be the Republican front-runner for 2012. Oh yes, oh yes, please!!!

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I thought the president gave a good speech with the right message that I doubt the left will follow.

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Photo op. Sadly, his presence will heal nothing.

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Tommy – I’m sorry you are so blinded by your partisan hatred that you can’t allow people to reach out, that you can’t allow the President to speak to the nation without injecting your own bitterness.

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Get real Jay!! Do you really think the right wing pundits are ever going to say anything good about Obama? He could give a speech that would rival anything Lincoln ever did, and the right would still villify him.

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Excellent speech!!!

Del

January 13th, 2011
8:08 am

It’s evident you didn’t get the message as well.

Have a little faith please.

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OT here, but I wonder if GM will make another commercial about the bailout being paid in full and ahead of schedule, and if the White House will tout this as a success.

“WASHINGTON – By selling a block of its shares in General Motors Co. for $33 each — a price far below the “break-even” point — the government sharply reduced the chances of taxpayers fully recovering their $50 billion investment in the auto giant, a new report from a congressional watchdog says.”

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The whole Tuscon incident is unbelievable. Mostly the unnecessary death and suffering, but also the pathetic Liberal journalists and pundits trying to make political gains from it. To a lesser but same degree Obama’s presence and speech. A good speech, but the wrong time at the wrong place. Also troubling was the crowd who turned an event billed as a memorial into anything but. I blame Republicans for that. They are the ones who have been asleep at the wheel while Progressives have turned our colleges into Liberal indoctrination centers.

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” noticed Sara made sure she injected herself into the conversation yesterday”
——————–

It was the liberal news media, liberal blogs, and liberals in general that injecter herself into the “conversation” after they blamed her for the shooting.

So she rightly corrects the moron liberals, and she’s the bad guy?

How about the moron sherrif who blamed talk radio and the tea party for the shooting? Then it turns out this psycho kid didn’t watch tv or listen to radio or anything.

But Palin’s bad because she stood up to you moron liberals?

Makes sense. If you’re a psycho liberal, I guess.

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Charmed, I said that I thought he gave a good speech but the left won’t follow. It’s evidenced by the stupid juvenile comments about Sarah Palin that have already appeared. I’m certain that there will be more from the blogs left as the day progresses.

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Middle of the Road and Looking Both Ways
January 13th, 2011
8:13 am
Maybe we can stop the useless blame game and do some real work?

Never let an opportunity for a useless blame game go to waste.

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“It’s evidenced by the stupid juvenile comments about Sarah Palin that have already appeared”

good grief – calling her out on her use of anti-Semitic expressions like “blood libel” is now considered beyond the pale??? saying that we hope she runs is extremist language???

I hope you’re seeing a dermatologist cuz skin that thin has to be bad for you …

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Good morning all. So far as I know no conservative has alleged that the crazed gunman was working on the instructions of Chauncey. So other than omission of a “blood libel” defense of himself, Fearless Leader’s comments sounded much like those of Magna Sarah yesterday. Therefore, I credit him with failing to let a crisis go to waste.

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Taking a post on this blog as “evidence” that all of the right or the left posts extreme vitroil is nonsense. Anyone can namejack, make a new name or posts a comment as a rightie claiming to be left or a leftie claiming to be right.

Change needs to start with our politicians and pundits. No responsible politician or journalist at Fox or MSNBC blames Palin or the left for the actual shooting. The violent vitroil however is a different story.

Thats said there are a few with large audiences who have continued and now created new conspiracies that are as absurd as the birthers.

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Del – I have. What I haven’t heard, however, is when he was elected speaker for all Jews.

Have you read what the ADL had to say?

“We wish that Palin had not invoked the phrase ‘blood-libel’ in reference to the actions of journalists and pundits in placing blame for the shooting in Tucson on others,” Abraham Foxman, who is the national director for the group, released in a statement. “While the term ‘blood-libel’ has become part of the English parlance to refer to someone being falsely accused, we wish that Palin had used another phrase, instead of one fraught with pain in Jewish history.”

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USinUK
January 13th, 2011
8:32 am

So Foxman was “elected” to speak for all Jews? Interesting.

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leg lamp.

are you familiar with the ADL?

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Good morning USinUK, do I understand your argument @ 8:32 to say that the phrase “blood libel” may not be used except by Jewish speakers and only when referring to false allegations concerning Jewry?

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USinUk, I never said that everyone who considers themselves conservatives behaved well but you and others on left give liberal Democrats like Stupnik, Lopez, Krugman Durban and others on the political left as well as left wing bloggers here a free pass.

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Jay, Agreed you make a great effort. Not so with all of the blogs.

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“Was that being insensitive to blacks?”

No. simple answers for stupid questions

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Tommy – you’re confusing hatred with amusement.

Ragnar – actually, no. I think that when you use fling the term “blood libel” or “holocaust” or “nazi” around willy-nilly, you not only lessen its current impact, you also demean what it actually was.

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USinUk
@
USinUk
@ 8″11

“Tommy – I’m sorry you are so blinded by your partisan hatred that you can’t allow people to reach out, that you can’t allow the President to speak to the nation without injecting your own bitterness.”

USinUk
@ 8:08
“Finn – I second that emotion!! Run, Caribou Barbie, RUN!!!

as far as right-wing pundits, evidently Marc Theissen thought it was just a rebuke delivered to the left, that the right is as pure as the driven snow ”

No comment.

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“I want America to be as good as she imagined it.”

And, as we can all imagine it, if only we will “expand our moral imaginations.”

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Even after being admonished by fearless leader, the first thing some are inclined to do this AM is call the lovely huntress anti-Semite.

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USinUK – to quote Truman Capote:

“That’s not writing – that’s typing.”

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Del – 8:38 – … and your proof of a free pass … ???

leg lamp – not all sound-bytes are created equal. some carry more weight – specifically when it comes to calling out issues of anti-semitism – than others. http://www.adl.org/about.asp?s=topmenu

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jo nix – 8:40 – are you actually equating calling St. Sarah of the Tundra ‘caribou barbie’ with saying tht some things need a second amendment solution?

reeeelly?

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From Glenn Reynolds excellent column on 1/10/11.

“Shortly after November’s electoral defeat for the Democrats, pollster Mark Penn appeared on Chris Matthews’s TV show and remarked that what President Obama needed to reconnect with the American people was another Oklahoma City bombing. To judge from the reaction to Saturday’s tragic shootings in Arizona, many on the left (and in the press) agree, and for a while hoped that Jared Lee Loughner’s killing spree might fill the bill.”

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Pres Obama rose to the occasion. His performance as President was in stark contrast to the politically-motivated squabbling of others.

He was above the fray and rebuked those in the fray. I think it would be interesting if reporters asked certain representatives, who were in the audience, for their reactions. Especially in light of their days-old comment. Wonder if any contrition would be in evidence.

I’m sure that in the future Pres Obama will reengage the political theater. So will all the others. Hopefully it will be more about ideas and less about character attacks. So let’s not have any calls of ‘hypocrite’, okay?

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It’s not funny. It’s sick…………………

Speaking at the White House Correspondents’ Association dinner in May, Barack Obama spotted teen pop band the Jonas Brothers in the audience. “Sasha and Malia are huge fans, but, boys, don’t get any ideas,” deadpanned the president, referring to his daughters. “Two words for you: predator drones. You will never see it coming.” The crowd laughed, Obama smiled, the dinner continued. Few questioned the wisdom of making such a tasteless joke; of the US commander-in-chief showing such casual disregard for the countless lives lost abroad through US drone attacks.

I will never work with a person like that.
Nothing but disdain. ..

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There seems to be some confusion with the false equivalence of some terms with violent vitroil and rhetoric. Luckovich had it correct.. Let’s not excuse references to nonexistent “second amendment remedies” or suggestions that bullets should be used if your ballot does not work with name-calling.

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thomas – 8:48 – well, of course, there was the tell-tale “I’m kiddin” that i guess you failed to spot in the middle of the column you linked to. then, there was also the conclusion “And if government officials aren’t willing or able to provide that assurance — well, the public probably won’t respond with pitchforks. They’ll just insist the bailout be stopped in its tracks, and it’ll be hard to blame them.”

oooooo … violent rhetoric, indeed.

(next time, you might want to read what you link to to make sure it actually supports the position you think it supports)

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Del – I never said that Sarah said anything about 2nd amendment solutions. nor, to my knowledge, did she say anything about the tree of liberty.

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Well this topic sure looks like it may turn into a shootout but have to leave for awhile. Y’all behave!

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Del
January 13th, 2011
8:55 am

Careful, Del. The left might construe your use of the word “shootout” as an endorsement for using guns to make your point.

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Palin. Pavlov.

“Case Studies in Operant Conditioning Among the American Left” by Dr. Haywood Yayell, Harvard University Press, 2010.

josef, USinUK

http://tinyurl.com/4w2fd2s

I would not mind hearing thoughts about everything else she said, not just that phrase, especially in light of how her name came up in this context in the first place.

’bout all we have now is “well of course Sarah Palin didn’t have anything to do with this, BUT…..”

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Nix…I agree that Palin often cant spell but someone used a term that should have been avoided in her speech. Either she did not know what it meant and failed to look it up. Or she did and did it intentionally. Either way it does not excuse it nor is is excused by any likelihood that many Americans did not initially understand what it means. It was used for a meaning. Words does have consequences.

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“I do not believe SP actually knew the incendiary nature of her term”

On another blog someone suggested that she thought it the same thing, or similar to, a “blood feud” – probably as good an explanation as there is.

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clarification on previous post; I’d wager 99% of Americans have absolutely no idea what that term means.

Didn’t hear her remarks, but my impression was they were okay, made points that needed to be made, but a phrase or two may not have been thought through for implication.

When one uses an obscure term in such a way, one has to wonder what the purpose is.

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BTW, sister Sarah had every right to refudiate those who critizied her… It’s us to blame for allowing her inane ramblings to become news…

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Enter your comments here

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I see USMC needs to see the same dermatologist to have his thin skin treated .. if not that, then learn the difference between an object of amusement and an object of hatred

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Keep up the good fight!
January 13th, 2011
9:00 am

Good grief! You said “…Palin often cant spell…”. Did you read your own post? Grammar? Punctuation? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black……

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I saw an article(I wish I had the link) essentially attacking the parents of the shooter. If the guy is paranoid schizophrenic the parents are not to blame. There is nothing they did that caused him to be a schizophrenic.

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jo nix – okay. fine. out of respect for what O said yesterday – and, frankly, out of respect for folks like you and Paul, I hereby declare that I will henceforth refrain from using expressions such as St. Sarah of the Tundra and Caribou Barbie when discussing Sarah Palin.

(I still hope she runs, though – O would be reelected in a landslide)

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jo nix – 9:06 – my legs. they are so white, they really ARE beyond the pale.

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thought the president gave a good speech with the right message that I doubt the left right will follow.

There!! I fixed it for you!!! Don’t thank me, I do this out of brotherly love………..

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Lord help us

I thought the same. The President is not an overly demonstrative person. Last night, if one knew what to look for, the signs of emotion were there.

USinUK

And here I’ve been waiting for you to invoke “Sister Sarah” as in the Clint Eastwood movie…

Off to the gym – later -

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UsinUK, Sarah Palin will successfully refudiate the blood label
and pursue her Presidential ambitions. Please feel free to mock
her freely, as you will be unable to do it as well as she does.

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USinUk
It’s not the terms. It’s the tone.

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Kayaker

I watched Chris Wallace, Charles Krauthammer etc following Obama’s speech on Fox news out of curiosity last night to get their take on the speech . Unlike you , who would find fault with God himself if he had a ‘D’ by his name…your leaders on the right had nothing but praise for Obama’s speech.
I was pleasantly surprised…look around…you may just be on an island on this one.

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There is a difference between the statements:

“I call for someone to shoot and kill her” — clearly unlawful.
“I want someone to target her and take her out.” — lawful in some context but very violent.
“I am putting a target on her. Its time to reload.”. — lawful in some context but very violent
“I think someone is likely to shoot and kill her.” — not unlawful in all contexts but it could be.

All of this is established law.

Other than the clearly unlawful statement, the other statements may be unfortunate but only unlawful in certain contexts. None of those are the equivalent of “you’re a poopy face.” Name-calling and its variations are unlikely to be stopped but that alone does not provide room for a wacko to decide to take action. Our language if full of cliches that have seemingly violent meanings but not in context.

Suggesting that it is appropriate that if ballots dont work, bullets are an option is reprehensible.

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Unmentionable made the point last p.m. that what we are trying to do is to come to an explantion of a senseless act. That is as it should be. The problem is we want that explanation fit our own narrow and partisan agendas. That is not as it should be. It doesn’t.

I think our President did a good job of trying to get that message across.

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‘It’s so funny how a speach that one didn’t write, read through a teleprompter ‘

There is that word (teleprompter) again. I watched the speech but missed it…

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Another Palin rant. “The lovely huntress”, as mentioned above, really does incite to riot, does she not? For a stupid, uninformed ex governor from Alaska, she can sure piss off a hell of a lot of liberals. She tickles that certain nerve in liberals that Karl Rove does. She must be hitting a lot of nails firmly on their heads to cause such a groundswell of contempt. We need people like Palin in our political landscape, if nothing else, to keep liberals honest. I agree with an earlier post that states that we need to have robust political dialogue. Eisenhower put it pretty well when he said we have an outspoken electorate who delights in expressing themselves. That’s mild 1950s rhetoric compared to what we have today but don’t be to intent on limiting what the citizenry has to say about their political leaders….. healthy discourse is good for our country and keeps our leaders accountable to the people’s wishes. At least, it used to.

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“I see USMC needs to see the same dermatologist to have his thin skin treated .. if not that, then learn the difference between an object of amusement and an object of hatred”

So if Sarah Palin says it, it’s hateful and divisive rhetoric…
but if USinUK says it…
“don’t get your knickers in a bundle or offended, you just have thin skin (be a man) and learn the difference between blah blah blah…” Nice.

Sounds awful Narcissistic and condescending….

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Words that heal not wound….

I can do that.

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His phoney speach was just another insult to real Americans who are suffering because of his polices like free healthcare.

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USinUK

January 13th, 2011
8:53 am

Read the article fully well, and even understood it to i did.

Jay was kidding in the article and i would suggest that Sarah palin was not calling for an actual use of a gun to solve the problems she spoke of.

But you and others jumped at it as if she was standing there supplying the ammo.

Lots of people say lots of things and usually don’t mean in a literal sense what they are saying.

Goes both ways but seems you have missed the message of Ajay’s most recent article and you seem to want a continuation of all those who disagree with you are wrong, yet find no time to ever blame those with whom you agree.

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jo nix – baby steps.

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Palin Fan

January 13th, 2011
9:24 am

Give him the benefit of a doubt. Let’s see if he can practice what he preached.

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thomas – I agree with you – lots of people DO say lots of things they don’t mean literally.

I just thought it odd that you suggested I should criticize an article which not only doesn’t advocate violence, it actually says that people should use the appropriate legislative recourse.

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If this happened during Bush’s reign, the lefty pundits would be speculating that the shooter was hired by DIck Cheney to cause a ruckus that would improve the President’s ratings.

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The Founding Fathers established a nation with violence and we continue to reap the “reward.” Whatever happened to turning the other cheek, Christians?

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Keep, you said when ballots don’t work. The american
revolution was not a peaceful protest.

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godless – 9:30 – now, that’s just silly.

everyone knows Dick Cheney does his own shooting.

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I wonder is this was yet another diabolical plot instigated by the harmful words of Sarah Palin?

“Discovery Communications is planning security upgrades to its Silver Spring headquarters after a radical environmental activist held three people hostage in the building’s lobby in September.”

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“at a time when we are far too eager to lay the blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who happen to think differently than we do.”

Relative to the Arizona tragedy, conservatives were laying the blame at the feet of a mentally ill person, which is where it belonged. I don’t know what the left was thinking. It’s reached the point that I don’t wanna know what they’re thinking.

I think the President gave an excellent tribute. I found the raucous applause a bit over the top. Inappropriate? I guess if the families had no problem with it, then neither should I.

Will his speech have a lasting impact? No!

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His phoney speach was just another insult to real Americans who are suffering because of his polices like free healthcare.

Not certain, but I do believe this poster drinks his breakfast out of a Jim Beam bottle every morning……

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kayaker 71

January 13th, 2011
9:32 am

Undoubtedly he was young, inexperienced and has proven to be immature, but give him a chance to grow. The economic recovery has been near miraculous and shuold continue when the new team gets in place.

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The term “blood libel” which Palin used originally referred to a widespread myth used to justify hatred of the Jews. The myth claimed that Jewish people used the blood of christian in their religious ceremonies. This myth caused much hardship and persecution, hence the need to reframe from it’s use. Palin needs to get a more informed speech writer.

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@@

“Will his speech have a lasting impact? No!”

It didn’t even last through the first posts here this a.m.

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Exactly barking frog, but I feel that most of your statement will be lost in the translation….

USNUK, you proved my point, whenever you can’t prove something with fact, you just make it up… Your humor just validates your ignorance…. Sorry, but this is as mean spirited as I get….

God help this country! He is truly our only HOPE!

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My bad
That should have read “Christian Children” in my 9:38 blog
…must proof read…

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Another thing, jay. RW made an excellent point Friday.

You couldn’t let Limbaugh’s “stupid” comment pull you down? Why mention it at all?

Andy always said “Frisk the liberal first.”

That phrase is, forever, embedded in my memory.

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DebbieDoRight
9:30 am

Now, lookey here, while it is unusual for a Governor to step down outside scandal or malfeasance, there was nothing wrong with what Sarah did. First, the political opposition had launched a scorched earth witch hunt that was disrupting the State’s ability to function. By stepping down, Sarah ended the side show and left a hand picked lieutenant to carry out here programs. Clearly the right thing for the people of Alaska. Next, she moved on to bigger and metter things on the national stage. Her leadership in the 2012 election cycle did more to make this a better country for all Americans, Alaskans included, than she could have from the Governor’s chair.

Let us also not forget that a certain juniro senator, with nio legislative achievement to his name, abandoned the voters midway through his Senate term in 2010. Arguably, the national role that Sarah took on has been every bit, if not more important than, the one Obama took on when he left his Senate seat. At a minimum, she has done more for the good of America than Obama has.

If Cheney either decides not th re-plumb himself or to sit our 2012, a scan three words hold America’s future – RUN, SARAH, RUN!

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Good morning peeps. Day #4 of the Great Atlanta Snow-In.

Imagine — imagine for a moment, here was a young girl who was just becoming aware of our democracy; just beginning to understand the obligations of citizenship; just starting to glimpse the fact that some day she, too, might play a part in shaping her nation’s future. She had been elected to her student council. She saw public service as something exciting and hopeful. She was off to meet her congresswoman, someone she was sure was good and important and might be a role model. She saw all this through the eyes of a child, undimmed by the cynicism or vitriol that we adults all too often just take for granted.

How poignant and heart breaking. Who knows? This child could have changed the course of history.

As could any of us.

I disagree with you Dawgdad. WE are the problem. You and me. All of us. The “public”. We have what we have, in politics and everywhere else, because it is merely a reflection of who we really are.

There is a wonderful, but brutally honest (and full of course language) George Carlin skit that addresses this full on. It is interesting to note the very nervous laughter by the crowd.

Some people will never see that violence, including the verbal variety, is almost always the worst possible option.

Both of us want to win this fight
Both of us think the other is mistaken, so mistaken
Meanwhile, everyone wants to take up sides
So everyone helps us to fall apart
Just another fact of life
It’s hard to play fair
And it’s so easy to pretend to care
But if nobody wants to share the blame
Then everyone gets more of the same

If I want more peace in the world
Then I must make peace with myself
If I want more trust in the world
Then I’ve got to trust in myself
If I want more love in the world
I must show more love to myself

I want to change the world
I want to make it well
How can I change the world
When I can’t change myself
Try again tomorrow
I’d love to change your mind
Capture your citadel
How could I change your mind
If I can’t change myself
Try again tomorrow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v10gEIUcK70

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The speech was as it should have been. What turned my stomach was the media spin on announcing Giffords opened her eyes…”Immediately after Obama left her bedside, Congresswoman Giffords opened her eyes. It was a miracle..”

Please……..

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AmVet
9:44 am

“How poignant and heart breaking. Who knows? This child could have changed the course of history.”

Same thing could be said for the millions of unborn children who, against The Lord G-d’s word, have been felled by the abortionist’s scythe.

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USinUK

January 13th, 2011
9:45 am

So because her views are different than yours she should be judged differently or more harsh?

Again why do you hold her to a different standard than others?

What makes her different?

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“It didn’t even last through the first posts here this a.m.”

Being generous there Jo by making “posts” plural……………

First one right out of the gate didn’t “get it”.

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I guess USinUK didn’t get the President’s message:

“Obama in Tucson: ‘We cannot use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on each other’”

Folks, Jay Bookman wrote a great article… How about READING it.

Some people mistakenly think they are above it all, but they are not.

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hmmm — “USNUK, you proved my point, whenever you can’t prove something with fact, you just make it up”

tell me what I made up.

that, when she was mayor, she didn’t increase Wasilla’s debt? (to the tune of $20 million)
that, when she was mayor, she didn’t approve a $15 million sports complex / ice rink?
that she didn’t quit as governor?
that, immediately following stepping down as governor, she didn’t sign with FOX?

please. tell me what I supposedly made up.

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The tenure of President Obama’s speech has a rhythm of words of the “Gettysburg Address”. Where the Preseident says “Those who died here, those who saved life here-they help me believe”.

President Lincoln said “The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here”.

The entire context of the President’s speech is the same, the central theme about bringing the country together. That was the whole idea, a united citizenry same as Abraham Lincoln’s whole theme. It does not seem to me that here is a parallel, but it could be.

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Keep up the good fight!

January 13th, 2011
9:36 am
SO you must be suggesting that violence is appropriate in our country (let’s keep it to this country, not others), today not in some hypothetical future world.
———————————————————————————————–
I am not suggesting anything. You are. I’m stating facts. What you said.
What the american revolutionaries did. What recourse is available when
ballots don’t work? You say that bullets are not a solution.

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josef nix@8:51 am

Just one little gay Jew Boy’s opinion, but I’m not impressed by this sudden show of senisitivity.

——————————-

LGJB

I’m about as sensitive as an outhouse seat

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“We have what we have, in politics and everywhere else, because it is merely a reflection of who we really are.”

I don’t know that I would necessarily agree with that Am………….our choices in the voting booth don’t always reflect what “we” want 100%………we send up a lot of folks that don’t reflect the population as a whole………mirror the population……maybe, but I don’t see that as necessarily “good”.

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md

You know me TOO well! I originally typed “post” in the singular, and then thought better of it in my efforts to ratchet down that which could be read as personal!

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Kayaker

It is good to hear that you vote for the man, not the party. Now, you think Obama’s been a terrible President…I completely disagree…he inherited a situation of unprecedented financial distress and did what he had to do…along with the votes from Boehner and others. If you are truly objective, you have to see he has this countries best interest at heart, so what are your complaints?

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The great state of Illinois has just passed a bill in the state legislature to raise it’s state income tax by 67%. That’s just where we might be in this country is Repubs had not put their feet down and refused to accept anything but sustaining the Bush tax cuts to keep federal taxes where they were. Bozo and his gang would have given us the highest tax increase in the history of this country if not for Republican intervention and stubborn opposition. But Illinois has not seen many Repubs lately, has it? From Je$$ie Jr, to Dickie Durban to Rham, it just gets more pathetic by the day.

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If have been very clear, Frog. In today’s political environment which is NOT an environment where ballots do not work, it is unacceptable to suggest that you or anyone has any right to kill or assassinate an elected official or to use language that suggests to some, sane or not, that we live in a country where our ballot is ignored. There is NO violent recourse available and the suggestion that there is unacceptable and reprehensible.

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Keep up the good fight!

January 13th, 2011
9:39 am
So Frog…is it appropriate to say (and remember I am asking the question)/

“I tell people don’t kill all the conservatives. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus — living fossils — so we will never forget what these people stood for.”
——————————————————————-
If it is not unlawful it is protected by the Constitution.

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“our choices in the voting booth don’t always reflect what “we” want 100%”

Never have, never will. Under ANY political system…or even NO political system…there is NEVER going to be, and never has been, a 100% reflection of what “we” want. Because NO ONE can reconcile 2 completely opposing viewpoints. Can’t happen.

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Maybe those services are being held later, but were the dead mentioned last night? That is kind of the same thing.

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Let’s see…………… Maybe if Sarah had taken down that map with cross hairs on it , maybe people wouldnt be looking at her. Maybe if Congresswoman Giffords hadnt mentioned that back last March that she was under one of the cross hairs, maybe people would not look at Sarah Palin. Maybe , in explaining herself, she would use a different term than the one she picked up from a talk show the night before, a term offensive to the Jews, of which Congresswoman Giffords is one, then maybe no one looks at Sarah Palin.

She does it to herself. She invites the publicity . And she also must deal with the consequences when one of her publicity stunts goes seriously wrong.

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Sorry, byll, I don’t eat red herrings for breakfast. But you can munch away…

But I’ll give you another helping if you’d like.

Your hero Dick Cheney HAD his chance to prove his mettle as a leader.

He failed in the most spectacular way possible. Deadly, derided and disgraced. (Don’t shoot the messenger.)

He does not deserve another opportunity to demonstrate his serial prevarications and cowardice, and the American people will never allow him again to darken the doorway of any building even remotely close to the White House…

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“That’s just where we might be in this country is Repubs had not put their feet down and refused to accept anything but sustaining the Bush tax cuts to keep federal taxes where they were”

All they’ve accomplished is to postpone the inevitable.

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Dunno, Bada @ 9.58, I haven’t seen a lot of memorial services in ~13,000 seat sports arenas that were terribly somber and quiet.

That said, I do somewhat agree, in that I do wish more of the audience members had done a little less whooping and hollaring, but I wasn’t there to experience the atmosphere live, I just watched it play out on tv.

Maybe one hadda be there.

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“Very few children are aborted, but unfortunately some are ”

Actually…NONE are. Neither a zygote nor a foetus is a child.

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retired early,

The majority of the electorate does not trust this clown. He has lied, cajoled, manipulated and threatened to get his bogus legislation passed and has no scruples. The end justifies the means, in his view. His cash for cars was a joke, his shovel ready stimulus projects were laughable, his bailout of our financial institutions saved them and allowed them to post best ever profits two years following infusions of gazillions of dollars but unemployment has not improved, home foreclosures are at at all time high and the prospects for improvement are dim, at best. He has his own interests at heart, not that of the American electorate. He posts flowery speeches about how he inherited a bad situation but how long is that going to wash. It’s getting pretty old and most of America knows it. I don’t trust him, most of America does not trust him and without trust, how do you expect us to accept him as a leader?

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the idea that the right employs “hateful rhetoric” towards those “who think different” is in and of itself a false statement.

I really don’t CARE what someone thinks.

What I CARE about is a tyrannical government that PASSES and ENFORCES which steal from my earnings and restrict my freedom.

Those aren’t “thoughts’ those are ACTIONS.

The tea party is a REACTION to those ACTIONS. The tea party is a REACTION to the PROBLEM and the PROBLEM is the g-dmn worthless government.

Do not blame us for REACTING. Blame the PROBLEM.

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Untrue Kayaker : The majority of the electorate elected this President does not trust this clown

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“We have what we have, in politics and everywhere else, because it is merely a reflection of who we really are.”

I retract my earlier comment after re-reading the above……………….”who we really are”. Mirroring society is who we really are………..

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Stands….I thought the speech was great, but the atmosphere was a little too upbeat. Now, say the victims had a disease, and they fought a long hard battle against it. We could celebrate their struggle with them. But being shot down in cold blood puts a different light on it.

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This is what I think of when I read this blog

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“The second amendment refers to the security of the State.”

The second allows for the protection against tyranny……………which could be protection from the State. Don’t think for a minute that what happens around the globe can not happen here………

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Good fight,

True in 2008. But a lot of them have gotten a lot of smarts since then. Even the “lovely huntress from Alaska” could give this clown a run for his political money if the election were held tomorrow. This event in AZ could have easily been substituted for an oval office speech on TV. But no, Bozo has to embrace the crowds, gain the adulation and take in all of the karma that his blind supporters give him at most every event. Where were his white marble columns? The speech, in it’s content, was not bad. He should have given it from the WH on TV, however.

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wyld byll hyltnry

January 13th, 2011
10:07 am

I didnt say that Jewish people owned any statement . I said most of them found it offensive. And if you would have read my post , it said she must suffer the consquences of her actions when one of her publicity stunts goes wrong. Maybe if she had used dots instead of cross hairs…………,

And that is all she is , a publicity stunt.

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Ahhh Herman, truth hurts doesn’t it?

wildbyll: Now, lookey here, while it is unusual for a Governor to step down outside scandal or malfeasance, there was nothing wrong with what Sarah did. First, the political opposition had launched a scorched earth witch hunt that was disrupting the State’s ability to function

Welllllll……do you remember someone named Bill Clinton and the Whitewater investigation? (that turned into a witch hunt). I wonder how the right would’ve reacted if Bill would’ve quit a year or two into his presidency because his feelings got hurt?

Let us also not forget that a certain juniro senator, with nio legislative achievement to his name, abandoned the voters midway through his Senate term in 2010.

He ran for PRESIDENT, not for a reality show or to watch his daghter “dance” with the stars!! Surely you see the difference?

Arguably, the national role that Sarah took on has been every bit, if not more important than, the one Obama took on when he left his Senate seat. At a minimum, she has done more for the good of America than Obama has.

Can’t stop laughing, can’t stop laughing…….OMG wildbyll you go too far with the comedy dude!! Too funny!!!

thomas: So because her views are different than yours she should be judged differently or more harsh?

No – no one said that — never have

Again why do you hold her to a different standard than others?

The same way we hold judges, cops, attorneys, and doctors to a different standard. Why is that so hard to figure out?

What makes her different?

See answer ^^^above.

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Keep up the good fight!

January 13th, 2011
9:57 am
The second amendment is NOT a suggestion that there should be a violent recourse toward elected officials.
——————————————————————-
The second amendment is NOT a SUGGESTION.

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The verdict on the Obama speech was very positive from all guests on the “Morning Joe” program. Republican speechwriters Peggy Noonan, Pat Buchanan and host Scarborough all gave the speech very high marks.

But being the realist that I am, I will predict that by Monday AM it will be history and we, the USA, will go back to our usual inability to debate an issue. We will return to our usual contest of who can more quickly dehumanize their political opponent to gain a political edge.
Or more bluntly, a return to third grade name calling.

In the meantime the country’s problems will continue to fester. Noted conservative jurist Robert Bork authored a book with the title
“Slouching Towards Gomorrah”. With apologies I will borrow the title and predict that the US is “Slouching Towards Greece”.

The bases of both the Left and Right have one major thing in common, the refusal to compromise. So as long as the Republicans and Democrats allow their base to dictate policy, we will remain where we are on most issues.

And apparently most Americans are happy with the status quo. Apparently they like deficit spending, enjoy the prospect of passing a $14 trillion National Debt to their kids, and appreciate 12 million illegals running unchecked across the landscape. They insist that nothing be done to change anything, if it means compromising.

American governmental history shows that little gets done without compromising. In fact, the USA is a nation built on compromise. But as our friend Hegel pointed out “What experience and history teach is this: that peoples and governments have never learned anything from history.”

And so it goes………………..

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The most accurate statement of today’s blog was said by Redneck:

Long as us Republicans get our way, we won’t be mad at anybody.

Can he get an Amen?

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DebbieDoRight
10:15 am

“Welllllll……do you remember someone named Bill Clinton and the Whitewater investigation? (that turned into a witch hunt). I wonder how the right would’ve reacted if Bill would’ve quit a year or two into his presidency because his feelings got hurt?”

I can’t speak for the right, because I am a centrist, but I would have been grateful had he placed the interest of the country above those of his ego. I imagine those on the right would have felt the same way. BTW, I have lifted many a glass with Ol’ Bill and a greater guy to hang out with you will bnever find, but a true national disgrace. We should be grateful that Newt was able to salvage some good out of the trainwreck Clinto presidency.

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Boortz apparently thought Obama’s speech was good, especially in comparison to Palin’s webcast “thingy”

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Keep up the good fight!

January 13th, 2011
10:01 am
Absolutely NOT Frog. Violent recourse is NOT in the Constitution. There are no second amendment remedies. The second amendment refers to the security of the State.
————————————————————————
According to the SCOTUS the 2nd amendment restricts the
government from interfering with the individual right to keep
and bear arms. no more no less.

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“Boortz apparently thought Obama’s speech was good, especially in comparison to Palin’s webcast “thingy””

She is not the President, jm. Of course his speech should be better than a private citizen’s.

And who really cares what Sarah Palin says besides Leftwing liberals?

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That the president turns atomic weapons upon his own citizenry because a segment of the population won’t listen to reason?
———————————-
Personally, I’m suggesting that he shove them up his own A$s.

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Stands for decibels,

Ronald Reagan had a mandate from the electorate when he won election by a 49/1 state majority in his second election. He had in mind some pretty harsh remedies for the ills of this country that worked. Success is not a stepchild, decibels. The greatest economic turn around in the 20th century from a business standpoint. Did you see how America mourned him at his demise? Bozo is no Ronald Reagan, never was and never will be.

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The root PROBLEM is our government.

Tommy, one more time, YOU are the problem.

You and me. Us.

NOT the government. NOT the schools. NOT mommy and daddy.

It is called personal accountability.

Here is that skit I referenced earlier. Watch it closely…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk

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Our president was brilliant in his delivery and content. His words were so obviously well received by those present – those who needed it most. I was most moved by the tears and cheers so openly expressed by the parents of that 9-year old angel. Last night I felt like a Tucsonan.

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First, the left was screaming about Palin’s silence then they screamed when she said something. I say who cares what she says. If she was as irrevelent as they say why pay any attention to her ?

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josef nix
10:23 am

““I” don’t think “we” as much took what y’all are calling “offense,” as “we” were jarred into a memory we would rather repress.”

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. I feel a special bond with the Jew and Israel, after all my life is centered on the life of a Jew. At the end of the day, Sarah was well within the bounds of good taste in using the term since it was used to dehumanize her the way the French used similar ill-intended lies against the Jew.

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The sole black Republican Party district chairman in Arizona resigned from his post in the wake of Saturday’s shooting, citing threats from the Tea Party faction and concerns for his family’s safety, The Arizona Republic first reported.

Well, I can’t hardly blame the guy.

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“Of course his speech should be better than a private citizen’s. ”

She’s not a private citizen. She’s a public figure.

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has the right to take violent killing revolutionary action under the Second Amendment
—————————————-

We DO have the right. In fact we have the responsibility to do so.

If you want to live in a country that fears it’s government, as opposed to living in a country where the government fears its people (as the way it should be) then you’re free to move to China, Cuba, or Canada.

But you’re not going to be allowed to use the government as an instrument of force to fund your socialist wet-dreams. You scum.

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Frog…If Tommy believes your words. If he believes that this government violates the law and is therefore not legitimate, does he have the right to kill or act violently. You are saying he does. No two ways about it.

It is NOT in the constitution.

And words that encourage anyone to believe that they have a right to assassinate our President as a protected right under the constution or as moral right is simple reprehensible.

md…the word “tyranny”? where is it? If not, your claim is a reprehensible as Frogs

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AmVet

January 13th, 2011
10:28 am

Good one AmVet! I’ve never seen that one.

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kayaker: The majority of the electorate does not trust this clown. He has lied, cajoled, manipulated and threatened to get his bogus legislation passed and has no scruples.

You’re talking about Bush/Cheney?

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But you’re not going to be allowed to use the government as an instrument of force to fund your socialist wet-dreams. You scum

Let’s remember Frog and md, a nutcase who makes these kind of statements may pick up a gun and use it in the believe that you support his right to use that gun because he believes (in his own nutcase way) that there is tyranny.

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DebbieDoRight

January 13th, 2011
10:24 am
barking frog: am not suggesting anything. You are. I’m stating facts. What you said.
What the american revolutionaries did. What recourse is available when
ballots don’t work? You say that bullets are not a solution.

The Revolution was BEFORE the ballot, (as she’s already pointed out) — since the revolution we have had the ballot go “get rid” of people we don’t wish to represent us. However if the MAJORITY of the people do wish for that person to stay in office, then your only recourse is to do what millions did under the yoke of Bush/Cheney and THEIR tyranny — wait it out.

Remember the Civil War? Is THIS what you’re advocating? That the president turns atomic weapons upon his own citizenry because a segment of the population won’t listen to reason?
——————————————————————-
I’m not advocating anything. In the Civil War Lincoln nullified
the Constitution by violently disallowing the several states rights
that were reserved to them. Should he have refrained from violence?
The lawyers seem to think so. Ballots didn’t work. Bullets did.

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Elections clearly don’t work.

Better to make the government afraid of the people.

It prevents them from getting too uppity.

If you want the violent rhetoric to tone down, then quit trying to use the government as a weapon against capitalism and freedom.

If you want socialism, move to Europe.

The end.

It’s not up for debate, you know.

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In the Civil War Lincoln nullified the Constitution by violently disallowing the several states rights
that were reserved to them. Should he have refrained from violence? The lawyers seem to think so

Frog, other than the Orily type lawyers, rational attorneys do not think this.

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Forget this nonsense about “debating” an issue. There hasn’t been an honest debate about issues for the past 100 years. If you don’t believe me, tune into CSPAN some time. What you will discover is that in Congress the floor of either house is almost empty when a senator or a representative delivers a speech. People have already made up their minds about how they are going to vote before a “debate” even begins, and the few who haven’t are getting arm-twisted and bribed away from the chambers. The charade of “debate” has absolutely no influence on legislation.

Under such accepted practices, does it really matter how civil or uncivil legislators are? They’re all playing to the TV cameras, attempting to affirm followers in their stances. And we accept such nonsense as par for the course. We don’t even insist that our representatives be present when discussion occurs, and we’re even willing to accept our representative’s being absent during a vote.

You can talk hypotheticals all you want, but these are the facts.

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K-71, I doubt many would have bet on such an outcome in January of 1983.

stands,

If that’s a prediction that Obama will carry 49 of the 50 some odd states in 2012 is it open for any monetary speculation?

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So many Republicans expressing so much anger! We should legalize Valium and make it free for all Republicans.

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Hey dumb liberals, the words “free healthcare” aren’t in the constitution either.

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Tommy, if you want more freedom, just vote for smaller government. Pretty simple. Call your local faux-Republican and berate him for their votes for constantly growing gov’t spending…..

Smaller government = more freedom.

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If I’m not mistaken I believe the word “tyranny” appears in the Declaration of Independence. Government is government, whether it be British or American.

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Doggone/GA

January 13th, 2011
10:35 am
“And apparently most Americans are happy with the status quo”

I would not use “happy with” – I would say “resigned to”

We have to be resigned to the fact that republicans have ruined our economy. Through hatred these guys have coerced the feeble minded into taking the the problems of the rich man. Why else would a man argue about how unfair it is to tax the rich,then turn around and vote for a republican to tax the middle and lower class?

Great speech by a potentially great President,he’s hindered by ignorant people.

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The dangerous radicalism of today’s American Right in a nutshell:

Sarah Palin, evoking Reagan: “Acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own. They begin and end with the criminals who commit them”

Wrong. Acts of ‘monstrous criminality’ are an indictment of something that is fundamentally rotten about a society. They hold up a mirror to it.

American conservativism ultimately represents a shaking of the fists at the complexities of modern society and a thorough rejection of insights gained from such fields as psychotherapy and sociology, among others.

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Budget battles are sure to reveal the true fascist motives of those in power. The people will be denied while the war machine is preserved, guns & bombs over bread & butter, big banks over households. In fact, the defense budgets will not be reduced. Rather, defense contractors will be forced to eat cost overruns without volume cutbacks in weapon units at all. The war is sacred, the signature mark of the fascist state. The USGovt seems to have suddenly found religion in reducing the budget and its deeply engrained deficit. It is more superficial than from the heart with conviction. The new wave is all about perceptions. To be sure, some in the USCongress are worried sick and scared pale over the prospects of a structural $trillion deficit. A decade ago such a deficit magnitude would be considered a telltale signature of a Banana Republic nation sliding toward the Third World perilously. The budget battle with the new USCongress will be extremely revealing of the priorities for the Syndicate in full control of the USGovt and press networks. The budget process will in my view continue to place the war as a sacred priority not to be touched, not to be altered, not to be disrupted. In rough terms, the USGovt budget contains components 20.0% Defense, 21.0% Social Security & Medicare, and 14.0% Safety Net System.

In my view, the budget cuts will come exclusively from the people and their homes and work centers, their pensions, their Social Security & Medicare. Tax deduction removals and phaseouts will be a centerpiece. The war machine has given stress to the defense contractors, who will be expected to absorb cost overruns in weapons programs, according to recent Pentagon pronouncements. Enormous costs are involved with the war machine support. The base military budget is $536 billion. The extended budget for the wars adds another $170 billion in supplemental spending, which officials prefer to call Overseas Contingency Operations since it sounds more sophisticated.

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Nobody tell ‘triple t’ that, under Reagan, the size of the government, and national debt, rose substantially…

When (if) he criticizes Reagan equitably, I will at least give him points for being consistent.

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Good Grief!!!

Jay you should change the name of your blog to the Daily Partisan Slugfest. It’s way, way over the top today. You’d think there would be just a smidget less after the events over the past few days, but a leopard never changes it’s spots. I guess this really proves some people have two left or two right feet when it comes to dancing.

Y’all have fun fighting a losing battle. Either way you put it, nobody’s gonna come out of this smelling like roses.

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Keep, Debbie, All of Hitler’s actions in Germany were lawful.
Ballots didn’t work. Bullets from the citizenry might have, but
we’ll never know. Patton’s bullets did.

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” Either way you put it, nobody’s gonna come out of this smelling like roses.”

I don’t agree. A few are doing a good job of smelling like garbage, but that doesn’t mean ALL of us are garbage.

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Scooter, it really hits home doesn’t it? At least for those concerned with such quaint notions as the buck stops here.

I have often thought that if I were independently wealthy, I would go out on a speaking tour with this very message. it would not be comedic however and it would take some great effort to make it a positive rather than negative message.

But ever since someone posted that link a few days ago, I have fallen in love with this message.

More than anything I have ever found it is the embodiment of self-empowerment. And is the very antithesis of the Cult of VictimHood that is often on display here.

And I am not concerned with, nor will be dissuaded or sidetracked by those who have no use for it, but play childish word games surrounding noble ideas such as free speech, freedom and as the president mentioned, the obligations of citizenship.

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tommy 10:47

“Hey dumb liberals, the words “free healthcare” aren’t in the constitution either.”

Do you have a cite for anyone who said healthcare should be free? Or that the health care reforms resulted in ‘free’ care?

Aside from conservatives?

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So I have to ask everyone who’s still throwing around names and things like socialism, evil, marxism, etc:

What exactly is wrong with debating the issues without calling each other names and dragging someone through the mud in order to emphasize the point?

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All of you people STILL demonizing Obama, saying he rammed things down people’s throats and whatnot
————————

A left-wing whacko shoting up a supermarket changes this in what way?

Obama DID and will continue to SHOVE illegal bills and laws down our throats.

He’ll be voted out next year though, don’t worry. Then you libs can finally move to Canada like you always threaten to.

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BTW Keep, The constitution is our protection from
government and tyrranny.

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“md…the word “tyranny”? where is it? If not, your claim is a reprehensible as Frogs”

Maybe I’m giving you more credit than necessary……….it is called deductive reasoning…….

“being necessary to the security of a free State”

Last I checked, tyranny had nothing to do whatsoever with being free………………..

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tommy t – yo need Jess. AND lots of psychiatric help. AND a prescription for some good drgs.

frog: I’m not advocating anything. In the Civil War Lincoln nullified the Constitution by violently disallowing the several states rights that were reserved to them. Should he have refrained from violence? The lawyers seem to think so. Ballots didn’t work. Bullets did.

Oh please!! Don’t start rewriting history!! WHERE in the Constitution does it say that the states had the right to keep and own slaves? Where in the constitution did it say that new states being newly formed, (as they were back then); must become slaves states? And BTW DID the bullets work in the south’s efforts to overthrow the legitimate government of the united states? Did we not learn ANYTHING from the Civil War?

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You keep dancing Frog but you wont answer the question (and neither will md or @@). Does Tommy have the right to take violent action if he believes the current President is Hitler or this government is tyrannical?

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Obama DID and will continue to SHOVE illegal bills and laws down our throats.

I see you don’t have much faith in your newly elected House of Representatives…

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‘Do not blame those who will REACT.”

wow. so, basically, we should just give anyone who opens fire and kills 9-year olds a pass because they REACTED.

got it.

thanks for clearing that up.

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@@ — no problem with your rhetoric. But does that right include the right to violent action. Does Tommy has a constitutional right to start shooting because he believes your words are happening and the “ship” is pointed back to Europe?

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Maybe Jenny forgot to tell tommy t tone that there is no such thing as free healthcare.

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PAUL

“Do you have a cite for anyone who said healthcare should be free?”

EOI here, but, yes, I did…

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“Or that the health care reforms resulted in ‘free’ care?”

Another of those trick questions? No such thing as “free”, but some won’t being paying for it.

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I don’t agree. A few are doing a good job of smelling like garbage, but that doesn’t mean ALL of us are garbage.

True, but you should know as a dog afficionado that, “When you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.” It’s hard to have a partisan argument if there’s only one side yammering. Let them talk until their faces turn blue. I’m trying to keep my promise to myself and stay out of the partisan BS.

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Lessee, tommy

makes comments without source references

makes questionable attributes to others

rails about socialism, but can’t/won’t define it, analyze it

demonstrates an interesting pathology of feeding off attention, particularly when it’s in response to outrageous comments.

likes to pretend control, speaking of what others will be allowed to do.

Yup, Mr. Callahan has returned.

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“True, but you should know as a dog afficionado that, “When you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.””

And I also know that if you fight fleas effectively, you can get rid of them.

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josef

You and a few others. But we know in the context of the discussion no one was speaking of no one, anywhere, paid. Or that no one who receives will ever pay.

’sides which, I was referring to those who actually pass the laws or are in the inner policy-making circles.

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“Yup, Mr. Callahan has returned.”

Wasn’t there once a poster here that called himself “tommy two tone” that preached violence…also?

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md

“Another of those trick questions? No such thing as “free”, but some won’t being paying for it.”

Wasn’t trying to be tricky, just defining terms.

The ’some won’t be paying for it” is true in many, many, many areas, either completely or in part. Whether it’s people of modest means with kids receiving public education, or someone who pays insurance for decades, never collects but watches many others collect, to those who don’t drive watching roads built, to vegetarians paying for meat inspections… goes on and on and on. It’s just the nature of a society.

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“Never let facts get in your way people…that fire that burns inside you… called hate, sure feels good…don’t it… That rage at the man…how dare that uppity black man run MY country…cant ‘t let it happen…I don’t want to know the truth…it just gets in the way of my sweet hatred…..Sound familiar boys.”

Fail…………….if you are trying to appear neutral. I see none of what you suggest having been posted, therefore, are you part of the problem??

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Paul: “rails about socialism, but can’t/won’t define it, analyze it”

And best of all, he’s so naive that he fails to realize he’s defending the most indefensible form of socialism of all right here in the good ol’ US of A. Socialism for the high-roller financiers and well-placed financier-politicians and their career revolving doors and blockbuster bonuses.

You love you some Wall St pinkos don’t ya tommy boy?

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poor job on that @ 11:19

I did not quote the sections in which I was responding to DDR’s earlier post…sorry…

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Where does freedom stop and tyranny begin……….that is the question.

How are you being “tyrannized” md? Did Obama forcibly take over the states? Did Obama set himself up as “King”? Did Obama caste out the constitution and set up his own constitution? If you answer, truthfully, NO to any of these questions, then there is no tyranny. Only hateful rhetoric, and blatant lies.

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Morning Paul!! Happy New Year!! And WAR EAgle!! (also Roll Tide, go DAWGS!, How ’bout them Fla. Gators!? and Soooowwwwiiieeee!!)

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“How are you being “tyrannized” md? Did Obama forcibly take over the states? Did Obama set himself up as “King”? Did Obama caste out the constitution and set up his own constitution? If you answer, truthfully, NO to any of these questions, then there is no tyranny. Only hateful rhetoric, and blatant lies.”

Deb,

You read too much into folks posts……..stop it.

I never said there was tyranny………..it is a hypothetical question.

Slow down a bit and quit answering your own questions for the folks you address them to.

It would be wise to ask the question and let them respond……you may not look as silly.

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Keep up the good fight!

January 13th, 2011
11:00 am
You keep dancing Frog but you wont answer the question (and neither will md or @@). Does Tommy have the right to take violent action if he believes the current President is Hitler or this government is tyrannical?
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Tommy can do anything lawful. Otherwise there will be
consequences. Juries decide what his rights are.

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Keep:

Not saying you did. I’m saying that tommy said Obama “would be VOTED out.”

A show of force?

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The shooter used pot, he had a history of mental unstability, he obtained a gun. Which one, or which combination caused this tragedy? A news report from Cook Co. Illinois this week stated that their morgue held 2 people per tray. And the spokesman said that this was not the worst he had seen. Some of the dead, I am sure, were the result of drug use, illegal guns, and alcohol abuse, all of which are against the law, or regulated in some way by the Gov’t. Did being unlawful stop any of these deaths?

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@@ — Tommy has said this government is tyrannical. Frog, md and, I believe, you have claimed that the 2d amendment provides that if there is tyranny then violent weapons with bullets, not a ballot, are a consitutional right to be used.

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“If Tommy holds that believe today, he may act and then its just a matter of whether he has proof for a court?”

No….it is a matter of what the courts allow………….

And those courts are controlled by the powers that be……….and then we are back to where does tyranny begin……………….

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md…its not a matter of what the courts will allow. Either is it a consitutional right or not. If it is a constitutional right, then Tommy may claim he has that right, shoot an elected official, and then go to court to try to prove tyranny. You are giving the right to any nutcase to shoot first and then telling them “well okay, now you have to prove tyranny”. That is reprehensible.

There is no second amendment remedy.

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DDR
Gotta run for now…

There’s the “watered down” version and the “beefed up” version…somewhere between the two…later we’ll get into the halt to the foreign slave trade and its not so idealistic origins (hint: 1810 is a key factor here..) But it was the constiution of the Confederate States of America that made the foreign slave trade unconstitutional…again, not all that idealistic in origin…

Gotta run for now…

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How a Brit viewed the speech

http://www.guardian

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frog: I believe that you believe that violence should never be used against a government.
I said that I was thankful that the Founding Fathers did not believe that.

Not direction but you intimated that it did. Sorta like you tell your child, “I’m going to the mall there’s chocolate cake in the fridge, I’ll be back at 5:00.” You didn’t outright say “Don’t eat the cake” however, by NOT saying those words, you inferred that the cake could be eaten.

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md…I understand what courts may or may not say. I am an officer of the court.

What I disagree with it the idea that there is a “second amendment remedy” in the constitution It is not a legitimate right and there is no court that would entertain an offer of proof of “tyranny” by the government as a valid defense to assassination. There is not a single case to that effect. And you are giving to the nutcases the idea that they have this right and telling them they can try to prove it in court after they act.

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DebbieDoRight

January 13th, 2011
12:06 pm
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Once again. Please google the definition of imply and infer.
I guess King George left the kids with the cake.

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“What I disagree with it the idea that there is a “second amendment remedy” in the constitution”

How do you think that militia is going to ensure a “free” State? By telling the tyrannical powers that be that they can’t do what they have already done?

My guess, they would have to use their weapons……..so, where is that line?

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Keep up the good fight!

January 13th, 2011
12:24 pm
You stated there is a consitutional right that is not stated in the 2d amendment.
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No I didn’t. There are many things that are not stated in the 2nd amendment,
too numerous to mention.

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Snake Oil Salesmen are always smooth talkers.

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Scout…you can keep trying but it aint true. Its a lie. But try as you might it wont work, that is why you wont post the entire transcript or a link. If I say “why doesn’t Obama switch parties?” that does not mean that it is a call for a switch, but rather a question.

Chris is not a birther, and who knows what your continued insinuated claims are about. Probably crazier than a birther. Instead of your veiled insinuations, put them out there so everyone can decide if they are sillier than Oirly. I bet they are.

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@@: A show of force?

….a murder would be nice, of course. Bad Horse! Bad Horse!….

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[...] President Obama said last night in his Tucson address: “[I]t’s important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we’re talking with each [...]

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“md…again if you state there are second amendment remedies when there is tyranny, then you have to understand where that leads. That leads to some nutcase who says, I believe there is tyranny, therefore I have a right to use violence and guns under the second amendment. You are not stating that bullets may be used in tryanny. ”

There will forever be some “nutcase” doing their own thing……doesn’t change what is written in the 2nd………”.A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State”

Sorry, I have a pretty good understanding of the definition of “militia” and “free State”……sounds like you’ve done a pretty good job of convincing yourself on your argument………..but on convincing others…..not so much.

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Adam:

There is not provision to do that centrally. It’s done by the states.

In fact, several states have/are introducing legislation (to take effect before the next presidential election) to ruire any presidential candidate who wants to run in their state to provide proof of citizenship, etc.

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Adam:

You’ll have to take that up with the states.

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[...] President Obama said last night in his Tucson address: “[I]t’s important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we’re talking with each [...]

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The media promote this notion that we, the hapless populace, need the president to heal us with his soothsaying, lest we be frightened and confused. It’s insulting.

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