Aftermath of Tucson shooting as dismaying as actual event

Amen to that.

I was gone this weekend. While I was listening to the sat radio reports I thought “I’m glad I’m not reading some of the comments on the blog today. This is enough of a tragedy all by itself.”

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Good Morning

What a sad weekend for America. My heart goes out to the victims and their families. May God hold them close.

I had all the reactions of a typical liberal, but was cautious enough to get past the first strong feelings and think about what has happened.

This shooting is not the first, and these episodes of anger and violence happen all over America everyday in big ways like this massacre and little ways like on this blog. I have personal responsibility for some of this and I apologize.

As one of our own reminds us, when Luckovich ran a blog I was IN THE NEWS and very often way over the top. I was mean and sometimes vicious and I apologize.

I can’t ask you to reign in the rhetoric unless I do.

From here on in, I’m going to be better.

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Good morning, Paul!

It was pretty nasty. Bloggers from both sides cited numerous examples of political rhetoric that suggested/implied or demanded violence against politicians, the opposition, muslims, etc. The fact that there were SO MANYexamples should concern all of us. (A few of those examples post here regularly)

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React first as Americans as we do with any tragedy – pray for the families who have been affected by this violence. Don’t look to blame anyone by the shooter.

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“Again, there is no evidence that Jared Loughner was responding in any way to that ideology rather than to the voices echoing in his own head. But it is foolishness to pretend that others out there cannot be seduced by the false romanticism and heroism inherent in the idea of political violence.”

The ultimate irony in this entire situation is that one of Loughner’s questions for Rep Gifford was regarding whether or not words had meaning (evidently, he asked her if there would still be a government if words had no meaning).

words DO have a meaning. when people talk about watering the tree of liberty with blood, that has meaning. when people talk about not being armed THIS time, that has meaning. and, yes, that applies to both sides of the aisle (as the Dems learned in the 1960s).

Loughner was a nutter, yes – but we have seen time and again particularly in the abortion debate that inflamatory rhetoric DOES drive people to do the unthinkable and murder in the name of their beliefs.

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Morning, Granny Godzilla

That was a nice example. As I’m sure you recall, I enjoyed engaging ITN. Was a good brain wake-up. If ever I crossed the line with you, I’m sorry.

N-GA

Hello and hello! Yes, the multitude of those examples you cited illustrates Jay’s point, I think.

How’s your daughter?

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Amen Jay. It is certain that the politics in this country has gotten very personal. It used to be that this country was a melting pot, now we are just a boiling pot. Sad.

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“We like to blame our leaders for a lot of our own shortcomings these days. Congress, for example, has never been held in lower esteem. But the truth is that our elected leaders are doing what we tell them to do. The pettiness and rhetoric in Washington reflect our own selfishness and shortsightedness here at home, and if we don’t like what they mirror back at us, well, blaming the mirror is never the answer.”

AMEN, end of discussion.

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jsua – I saw a brief interview with her father this morning … I can’t even imagine the pain that man is in … I just don’t think any language has the words

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“Rabid political speech does have consequences, if nothing else getting in the way of true discussion of the problems of the day.”

forget the polite golf clap, that gets a standing ovation

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Pretty good, Jay. No reference to leftist wording and such, but still good. It’s a tragedy. I suspect it will continue to be mined for attack reasons. Some of the blog responses (not on this one) are pretty scary.

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You didn’t even give me a golf clap when I said basically the same thing several weeks ago…….

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Conservative American political thought is infected with the idea that violence is a legitimate religious political tool that can and should be employed at some unspecified point, when some unspecified political actor takes some unspecified political action that crosses some unspecified line.

There. Doesn’t that work pretty well when dealing with matters such as select invasions of other countries and abortion and gay rights. Just askin’

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Jay – I do not agree with you most of the time but kudos to you for stepping up and be a American. I agree 100% This was not political. This guy was nuts. It’s that simple…. Neither party is responsible for this and anyone who tries to associate this with an “political agenda”, is a moron. Great article.

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I clicked a few newspapers anroud the country and was suprised how many people have made this political. There will always be kooks. Pray for Gabby !!!!!!!!!

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md- I didn’t even pay attention to my moniker this AM, but I won’t change it. It’s so trivial in the grand scheme of things. And it still applies to many, even me sometimes

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I’m going to turn the TV off (the opportunists-can’t call them journalists) are SICKENING in their coverage of this story. I’m signing off here, too. Gonna love on my family extra hard today, enjoy the snow and the day off. Be safe out there folks…GO Falcons and WAR EAGLE.

God Bless.

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So was the Fort Hood shootings by Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan not political either since he is mentally ill?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120313570

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When there is this much hatred in the air (on both sides) I think it’s impossible not to believe that an impressionable person might do something horrible. This is political because this person clearly responded to the right wing rhetoric. It would have been just as political if he had responded to the left.

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“And it still applies to many, even me sometimes”

And me as well, but there are politer ways to say it……….it reflects on you more than anybody else.

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“This is political because this person clearly responded to the right wing rhetoric.”

And you just might be part of the problem…………there is zero indication of facts supporting this claim………unless you care to enlighten us with them while you claim them.

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I make no pretense of even beginning to understand what was going on in the shooter’s head. From what very little we have gleaned or have been told, he was clearly unhinged. To call him left or right, conservative or liberal is not, in my opinion, possible at the moment. His ramblings were all over the board.

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“But you have to hope they didn’t know he had acquired a gun…”

As is his legal right.

” law makes it illegal to sell or transfer a firearm to a prohibited possessor, defined as any person who has been found to be mentally ill by a court, convicted of a felony, adjudicated delinquent, imprisoned, or serving a term of probation, parole, community supervision, work furlough, home arrest, or release on any other basis because of a domestic violence or felony offense. It is illegal to knowingly transfer a firearm to a person who intends to use the firearm in the commission of any felony. A firearm cannot be transferred to or possessed by a minor under the age of 18 except in limited circumstances.” ~ AZ gun control laws

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/gov_gun_law_pro_per-government-gun-laws-prohibited-persons

As far as I am aware no court found him mentally ill…yet.

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Thanks Jay….well said….this weekend’s comments were way over the top on both sides and it is my hope that the tragic events of this weekend can somehow, someway pull us closer together as a nation.

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After watching and reading many sources over the past couple of days, I’d have to say that many in the media reacted just as many posters did on this blog.

Their claims, speculation and assumption of motives did nothing but fuel the flames.

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jewcowboy, that’s simply laughable. If you trace the arc of comments since the shootings, you’ll see that it’s the Democrats who sought to take advantage, and Republicans following by pointing out their hypocrisy.

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L’il Barry

Both sides and with equal venom…the good news is that those stepping back from the abyss came from both sides, too, with equal concern.

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USinner

I’ll have to disagree with your 8:32 just a bit. Words SOMETIMES have meaning. They only have meaning or power if we give it to them. Spoken words are nothing but sounds in the air if we don’t give them meaning. Likewise, written words are nothing but groups of letters unless we give them meaning. You could read one thing that brings you to tears, and someone else could read it with no emotion whatsoever.

I think we need to learn to better control our emotions. There’s nothing wrong with being passionate about things you care for. Just don’t let that passion overcome your sensibilities.

Also, got your note downstairs about the 14th St. bridge. Try flying over that bridge in the wintertime. Had to do it a few times last year, even with snow on the ground.

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Thanks Jay…excellant from first word to last…..

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We commit verbal violence every time we call a Democrat a socialist and every time we call a Republican a reactionary. We know better. Let’s not fool ourselves that we’re not going over the top with such rhetoric. Even the law recognizes verbal violence with its distinction between assault and battery.

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Thanks, Jay. You summed it up very well.
I was left feeling very pessimistic yesterday about our country’s future after reading the sheer hatred in some of the blogs. My only consolation was the thought that these people were hiding behind their computer screens and spewing bile at their projections of the political “other.” I know that MOST Americans would NEVER actually speak to each other in such words.

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There are several elements here that I have to look upon when thinking about what has happened in Arizona:

1) The ability to acquire firearms: According to Arizona law, there is no waiting period and no background check required to obtain a gun. A background check may not have been able to stopped the gunman, but a waiting period would have slowed him down!! It may be a state-by-state situation, but a mandatory waiting period and background check should be made mandatory!

2) Conceal-and-Carry: Too many states that allow conceal-and-carry do NOT mandate gun registration; maybe that needs to be looked upon!!

3) Political language: Not looking to make this a political issue….but the language that we as a nation use in political discourse tends to inflame rather than inform…incite rather than invite!! At times, we all (myself included) have used every prejorative and invective available to push a point; what we as a nation must now do is to temper ourselves and not persistently marginalize someone’s experiences…note the differences…but embrace the commonalities!! Conservatives need to quit belittling liberals…..and vice-versa!! We need to quit using conservative and liberal as prejoratives….and relate to what the differences actually mean!! At points, we all have both liberal and conservative beliefs……..

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“Second Amendment remedies”

I think I know what you’re referring to and I was taken aback by the statement that came for the right side upon hearing it. Of course, there are such individuals on every side. No matter how you look at at it, it is usually the wrong side from whatever the origin.

I’ve been asked several times where do you draw the line?

I don’t.

Why not?

The line has already been drawn.

Yes, we do have tyrants and despots among us and there will always be these little would-be kings that grab unilateral power. However, there is a real big difference between despotism and “Absolute Despotism”. We are nowhere remotely close to an “Absolute Despotism”. Simply read the Declaration of Independence to see where the line is drawn as Jefferson defined “Absolute Despotism”. As long as we can elect representatives by ballots and have those ballots are honored by our government, you nor I have any right whatsoever to take upon ourselves the power to attack this Republic or anyone within it or outside of it by cause of an “Absolute Despotism”, for it does not exist.

We stopped having revolutions or any need for them in this country when we began holding elections. Ballots not bullets now settle our political differences.

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@L’il Barry – “The shooter was a liberal nut as Jim Hoft points out over at GatewayPundit (link below) to read the facts. In fact Jim also points out that our Mobster President does far more to incite the radicals (Click link below for all the facts) than the pundits on the right ever have.”

Hoft is just another example of the problem (on both sides of the political spectrum). He uses this tragedy as an opportunity to raise the level of vitriol….kinda like L’il Barry.

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Lil Barry
“josef, what do you imagine would have been the reaction from Republicans had Democrats kept their mouths shut? Get real.”

This is very much the playground response of “he hit me first,” “No, I didn’t he hit me first…”

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Nice piece of writing Bookman.

Late reports indicate that Loughner’s dislike for the congresswoman goes back to 2007 when he asked an incoherent question about mind control she was unable to answer to his satisfaction.

So you folks who are tying this to recent political rhetoric from the left or right are way off base. As Jay points the guy is apparently just a nut. And with a population of 308 million there would probably be a lot of nuts in the USA.

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SoCo – ‘There’s nothing wrong with being passionate about things you care for. Just don’t let that passion overcome your sensibilities.”

and therein lies the problem. for some people, there ARE no “sensibilities” where patriotism or environmentalism or right to life or animal righs or religion are concerned.

and those are the people I have in mind when I say that words have meaning. you and I might look at “wanted: dead or alive” posters and think “dude – that’s going a bit far”, but there are the fringey folks on the left and the right who look at them and say “yeah! you’re right!”

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“A background check may not have been able to stopped the gunman, but a waiting period would have slowed him down!! ”

From what I have read (which to this point may be all false), the guy went to one of Ms Giffords meet and greets several years ago and actually asked her a question, and he has been planning ever since. Sounds like the waiting period would have no bearing if that was the case.

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What if extremist rhetoric is a way of releasing steam?

As long as the government doesn’t proactively try to squash this rhetoric, then it will probably alright.

Otherwise, a release valve is installed on a Boiler for a reason.

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Great article Jay. I’m glad that a few of you on the left is not trying to politicize this horrendous event. I agree with you Jay that this was simply a crazy person who snapped. It’s really that simple. Paul Krugman, MessNBC, CNN, and Sheriff Dupnik should be ashamed of themselves.

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Dwelling on any political aspects of this shooting misses the point. American is a country where any nut can get guns and commit mass murder. This will not change in the foreseeable future because of the iron grip the gun lobby has on the politicans. So, look for more and more gun murders as time goes by and no relief whatsoever from the politicans. And, if you think arming yourself is the answer, think again. Trial lawyers are everywhere and if you shoot anybody in self defense, they will sue you into the street. Have a nice day everyone.

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md

January 10th, 2011
9:10 am

After watching and reading many sources over the past couple of days, I’d have to say that many in the media reacted just as many posters did on this blog.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And therein lies the problem md. Call it the death of the journalist. Unlike this OPINION Blog that Jay writes, the media tries to pretend that they are “unbiased journalists.” I can’t offhand think of a single teleprompter reader (some call them news anchors and such) that is the pimple on the butt of a real JOURNALIST. They continuously create the news instead of reporting it. Everything is massaged to create a specific thought pattern. There is no reason, if they were truly being “journalists” that folks would call CNN a left wing organization and FOX a right wing organization, (I refuse to call them “news” sources).

Like Joe Friday used to say, “Just the facts please.”

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We need a true bi-partisan look at our public speech. The perjoratives (my opinion) from Cynthia Tucker’s column yesterday: “loud and ill-informed”, “Obama-haters right wing conspiracy”, “lie”. At least we were spared her two favorites “screed” and “illk”. I point out that I agree with her on end of life, but I always am turned off by her attitude. The liberal slant today is that disagreement with them is hate. Extreme political disagreement has led to extreme violence in many cases such as 1775, 1861 and 1938, not to mention the French Revolution. We have to find a middle ground. I end with perhaps the best example of handling hate speech:

Woman opponent of Winston Churchill: “if you were my husband, I would give you poison”
churchill: “madam, if you were my wife, I would take it”

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jconservative

January 10th, 2011
9:27 am

It is undeniable the guy is a mental case, though, he did seem to have targeted Rep Giffords. So it is hard to dismiss entirely that there was no political motive, however convoluted it was.

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md:”Not exactly “true”…….polls show a majority did not want “that” particular hc bill, and congress has done next to nothing on immigration……another poll that says the folks want something done.”

What’s that supposed to mean? That if congress doesn’t hold it’s finger to the wind before every vote then “second ammendment ” solutions are justified? And let’s not forget that people were for healthcare reform before the onslaught of invective from the right wing media. After the campaign of lies against the bill, the demogogues then held up the polls as proof the American people didn’t want it.

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Good post Fred………you hit the nail on the head.

To me, it goes back to the Citizens United ruling…….the corporate media is setting the agenda……all in the name of free speech.

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Nice column Jay. Even though we disagree about most everything, I’ve always considered you one of the most reasoned voices from the left. You verified that again. It just goes to show that more liberals should go trout fishing.

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Ok…going outside to dig out a “pee pit” in the snow for the wiener dogs. 3″ legs in 6″ of snow makes for some very chilly wieners…

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md – “And if one thinks we can ban guns effectively, ask yourself how easy it is to get drugs. I had my heyday, and it wasn’t hard at all”

which is why I’m a proponent of the British system of gun control. if you want to own a gun, you have to have between 3 and 5 references regarding your mental health, you’re met and interviewed by a police officer, you have to show where you’ll lock them away (and it has to be so secure you can’t rip the thing off the wall). you have to register every single firearm you own – as well as bullets.

and, lastly, no firearm can be small enough to be concealed.

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“The blame, if there is any, goes to the family members,people and law enforcement who did not call attention to his imbalance; they stood by and did nothing… until it is too late.”

On a serious subject, I had to giggle a bit at that………..don’t know about others, but I got quite a few family members that just ain’t “right”…….but they are more than likely harmless. Multiply my family by xxxx, and that would overload the system.

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Sheriff Dupnik is definitely a guy I would vote against if given the opportunity. You don’t put out a fire by throwing gasoline on the flames.

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md – 9:42 – sadly, you can’t treat someone who doesn’t want to be treated. the days of having someone involuntarily committed are long past. I haven’t read about the parents, so i don’ know if they stood around and did nothing –

have you seen anything on the subject?

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I remember when mccain corrected the old lady calling Obama names in the last election and that was it for gop leadership.

Now, they won the house so they have to speak out.

It was all fun and games until one of them gets shot in the head and a nine year old little girl was murd ered.

Now, they will stand up to their cons.

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3″ legs in 6″ of snow makes for some very chilly wieners…

And some chilly wiener wieners!

I have a couple of friends who are also big time wiener dog lovers. And it is hard not to love those little boogers…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpF2tZsj6lM

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Fred… you may not like the facts. But that is a troubling statistic and a fact. You want more real information, then try http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation. Then click on the current recommendations, read the .pdf and lets get some common sense legislation.

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“I haven’t read about the parents, so i don’ know if they stood around and did nothing”

The issue of willful disblief is operative here. As it is in MOST families when a family member does something violent. Or even among friends and acquaitances. Before he did this, I’d venture to guess that most people who knew him would say he was a bit odd, if you asked about him. But how many would actually say they thought he was homicidal?

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Woe is US

Time for you to turn off your computer as well!! The crap you and Barry are writing filled Jay’s blog over the weekend…thus his column today. Both of you just give it a friggin rest…

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“Both of you just give it a friggin rest…”

When you pray for the impossible…don’t be surprised if you don’t get it.

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From the first thread on the topic of the shooting yesterday:

bjork
2:50 pm
Looks like Palin and Sharron Angle got their wish for 2nd Amendment remedies. They are equally guilty.

bjork
2:55 pm
Fox News, Sarah P, and the Tea-People- their blood is on your hands…

Aquagirl
2:57 pm
Only a jackass would put people in the crosshairs for political reasons.
I don’t think Palin herself is to blame, but crap like that doesn’t help America.

Dan
3:24 pm
The commentators here saying “don’t point fingers” are ridiculous. This isn’t a random act of street violence, this is AN ASSASSINATION of a Democratic congresswoman.

willie lynch
3:25 pm
It seems the right wing once again has resorted to violence.

jewcowboy
3:30 pm
Dan,
I have to agree with you. Unless this act was carried out by someone known to the victim(s) which doesn’t seem to be the case, then this is an assassination and inherently political.

Fred
3:31 pm
Is anyone surprised by this sad event after the rhetoric from the likes of Palin, “Don’t retreat reload.”

Rachel
3:47 pm
willie lynch Im with U ..you are so right!!!

larry
3:48 pm
i hope this gives those type of people like Palin, pause, because words eventually become deeds. It was just a matter of time.

Just saying..
3:50 pm
Over/Under in minutes for Rush to deny he incited anybody to do anything?

AmVet
3:51 pm
Lacking any details it is impossible to yet know, but I have a strong and sickening sense that this is gonna turn out to be exactly what it looks like…

Matti
3:56 pm
They’re not going to clean house. They intentionally invited this stuff in and made it feel at home.

Adam
4:01 pm
All this to me shows a disconnect between reality and what the general public buys the from the right wing political rhetoric. So much so, that it leads to VIOLENCE.

larry
4:18 pm
Probably just another God-fearing anti-immigrant bagger…
———————

Wow, this is more work than I thought…BTW, my first comment on the blame game was 6;20-ish.

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Jay, pretty good commentary. Tragic events such as the one in Arizona have happened before and unfortunately will again. It’s the price we pay for living in a free and open society. Living freely in America, however, is something few of us would want to give up.

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jewcowboy @ 9:41,

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md

January 10th, 2011
9:47 am

And yes, folks were in favor of hc reform, including myself……but onesided legislation is never the answer……..just causes more problems…….compromise was called for and not achieved.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Just damn, I may as well go and play COD black Ops for a while. The stuff like that you are posting could come from MY keyboard.

Funny how it seems so simple to US, but most others can’t seem to grasp it. Are we the lone voices of reason in the storm of insanity or is just you and me that are the crazy ones?

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md:”compromise was called for and not achieved”

And I call that BS.

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BTW, my first comment on the blame game was 6;20-ish.

How did you ever manage to bite your fingers for so long.

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Huh? I’ve got 25 doves huddled up on my front porch…9 under the eaves of my garage. Please tell me they’re not gonna keel over there.

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When you pray for the impossible…don’t be surprised if you don’t get it.

I second the motion!!

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“and when the problem is paranoia, I can’t imagine how much harder it is to get that person into counseling”

Exactly

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Jared was insane, but so are Arizona’s and our gun laws. That’s all I have to say.

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Doggone, pretty good point.

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@@

The birdies…give ‘em something to eat…they need our help today…

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md – “The uk has a geographical leg up on the situation. Much harder to smuggle in arms, vs the us with wide open borders………………..and no ship/plane needed……..”

um. ever hear of ferries.

or the Chunnel?

seriously, we’re not as much of an island as you think.

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I need some help. Snow day…Bourbon or beer?

Why not Bourbon infused beer??

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Fred – 9:59 – how about “the real Fred” or ‘not the obnoxious name-stealing Fred”

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AmVet @ 9:47:

Did you know that there is a group of Doxie breeders that actively protest weiner dog races?

Anyway, thanks for the video, my daughter loved it. She found one that looks like Sam, our Doxie. He was the one who either won or tied for the win lol.

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“And I call that BS.”

You can call it whatever you want……….doesn’t change the facts.

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Two days before the shooting, I ran into a long-time (R) collegue at a company event with whom I’d had numerous political arguments over the years, some quite bitter. Always loved her as a person, but when the discussions turned political, neither of us would back down and things could get ugly. Last week I told her that I wasn’t fighting with my (R) friends anymore, because I realize that there are NOT two opposing sides in D.C., (one fighting valiantly for our freedom, the other trying to destroy it.) I said, “They’re all on the same side: THEIRS. They want us to fight with each other so we won’t pay attention to what they’re doing. I don’t want to do it anymore.” We hugged tightly, and others were looking at us like, “What just happened there?” When this horrible news broke Saturday, I was glad I’d taken the time to open up to her. The division is sinking us, and our only hope is to find a way to pull together.

That being said, some of you on here have made it clear you’ll never feel that way. Don’t think I’m turning my back on your kind. Ever.

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“The birdies…give ‘em something to eat…they need our help today…”

pinecone + peanut butter + birdseed

always a crowd-pleaser!!

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Soco,
Good idea. I might mix the two if my bourbon was swill, but I’m talking Maker’s Mark, not Jim Beam.

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Really md…that is the best you have. Microstamping is handicapping? Requiring dealer inventory audits? There are many other proposals.

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Ok, so snow weather seem to trigger a funny mood in me and I notice things I never noticed before. My sister has a pack of rye crackers that has been sitting on our counter for a week. The package says “baked since 1919″

Isn’t that a LONG time to spend in the oven?

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“And I call that BS.”

I’m right and you’re wrong. And we are unanimous in that. So there!

matti
Hello in the wildernerss…it’s certainly beautiful outside today…got my hair shirt ready in case the power goes off!

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“seriously, we’re not as much of an island as you think.”

Not being snarky, but comparing an island of 94k sq miles with a land locked continent of 4 million sq miles is a bit hard to do. The logistics of stopping smuggling in the later is dang near impossible.

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ty

Unless the beer is a good Belgian or German, I’d do the Maker’s. That’s just me though.

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Nice article Jay…..Peace on Earth and Goodwill to All!!!

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ty, SoCo

Which bourbon? Now THERE’s an argument we can all agree on can’t be settled…and just as polarizing as the political one…

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Maybe I could go with The Poster Formerly Know As Fred, Tpfkaf.

http://www.shootbank.net/photos/1756.medium.jpg

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usinuk,
Irie!

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Jay, most fire arms are manufactured outside the United States and show up in Mexico and Canada from foreign countries. While it’s true that guns purchased in this country have been smuggled out and into Mexico or Canada we’re not the principal source.

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TaxPayer, how is that different from what you’re now doing?

Lil Barry,

If you like, you could go back to the thread that is in question and pull up all of my posts and put them beside yours. And if you find that prospect less filling, then by all means pull up my posts from this thread and elaborate on your concern.

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Well said Jay. I ask myself that question over the weekend in the aftermath of this tragedy. Is it the politicians or are they feeding off the rage and anger of their constituents? You have have answered my question.

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“Really md…that is the best you have. Microstamping is handicapping? Requiring dealer inventory audits? There are many other proposals.”

All for law abiding citizens………………now what legislation are you going to pass for those that don’t obey the laws??????

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Doggone – I’ll have to check in at the blog to see the pics –

I’m just impressed with the fortitude of seeing them in the cold weather!

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When I first heard that a Judge, a politician, and some innocent citizens had been shot, I thought I was reading the daily news from Mexico.

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According to the genius of comedic observations, the problem is you and me.

GIGO…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk

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“Laws are never passed for those who will break them”

And all rhetoric aside, they aren’t passed TO stop them either. They are passed to define the punishments FOR breaking them.

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No disagreement with your 10:20 from me, Doggone

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This guy is exactly like the Columbine shooters. A loner, wears all black, doesn’t believe in God, etc. What’s most striking is that he apparently had a college professor that tried at least 5 different times to get this kid help and/or kicked out of school. Either way, it was clear the school counselors should have gotten involved and evaulated this guy. But with the advent of the PC movement, even approaching someone with questions of their mental stability is now offensive and grounds enough to sue. Sad that modern day society has forced us all to walk around on eggshells and to make us think about every single word we dare to speak, even if its intended to help. This probably could have been avoided.

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Personally, I have always been uneasy around people who become single minded about religion, politics, environmental issues, racial issues, etc. Their total attention or ‘obsession’ with one issue is truly a form of mental illness. We humans have a built in ‘radar’ when it comes to protecting ourselves. This radar alarm will always ‘go off’ when we are around these ‘not normal’ individuals. Loughner is described as being a ‘loner’….bingo.
The people who kill abortion doctors…they appear completely sane except for one thing…. that ‘obsession’. They will truly “kill for Jesus”. What a perfect contradiction.
Unfortunately, there are a hell of a lot of these ‘obsessed people’. Have any of you attended one of these churches that “talk in tongues of the spirits”or “Holy Rollers”…geez these people will scare the crap out of you. They only harm someone when they hear God’s voice telling them to kill their children or something, usually to send them to heaven early How many times have you seen that happen. I still cannot believe how Jim Jones managed to get all those “normal” people to poison they own kids and then themselves. Would anyone have believed that possible prior to it actually happening ? Anyway, my point is these mentally ill living among us are impossible to stop if they decide to act out. There are just too many of them for us to monitor….except for…our radar.
So, although not politically correct this AM…. Palin should have picked a different way to target these lawmakers….a bullseye… and to “reload”. Sorry Jay, I think Palin went too far, even if that is not responsible for this AZ shooting…it’s not over yet… “Do you have to take this???…HELL NO YOU DON’T’ !!!!… No, Mr Speaker…we don’t…now where is your gun Bubba…

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“In one year, guns murdered 17 people in Finland, 35 in Australia, 39 in England and Wales, 60 in Spain, 194 in Germany, 200 in Canada, and 9,484 in the United States.”

Simple question for you…….how many of those were committed by law abiding citizens??

The answer is zero………and to assume the 9,484 would be lower with more laws is just that, and assumption. The number may actually increase if the predators of the world know that their victims are all unarmed………………..

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Whatever the reason, the poison that infected our discussion over the weekend bubbled up from below, from among us,

As long as you consider “below” to be the #2 man in the Senate, the AJC running all the AP innuendo nonstop, CNN, MSNBC, etc. I guess that’s true.

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Another quick question……..aren’t guns banned in Mexico??

How is that working for them?? Seems the guys with the guns are the ones in control………..

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Well, if people are going to blast you for using “can’t” instead of “cain’t,” I’m going to need to quit blogging. I thought Bookman would stand up for us people that never made it out of 5th grade but I guess I was wrong. I might of knowed.

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RW
To give the Bruin his due, I think today’s column is him stepping back from the abyss and looking in the mirror…

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khc,

Because she feels guilty for her actions, for once.

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josef,
I think many commenters on here could use a “taste test” or seven, too. Some people just can’t lighten up.

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josef,

I agree, but when one backs away from the abyss and looks in the mirror they shouldn’t try to photoshop the image that was reflected back. Now in Jay B’s defense he personally was far more cool-headed than his media peers, but that doesn’t mean he can make believe that all this vitriol bubbled up from the ether.

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I wonder if all the liberals that laughed, applauded and called all the assassination books and movies about President Bush “art” are rethinking their enjoyment over them now? Of course not, silly question.

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Weather question….here in Fayetteville I have had rain, sleet, snow, and ice pellets. Is there any other way that water can come down? Did anyone just get snow only? Where are you?

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md: “but I got quite a few family members that just ain’t “right””

There is a difference between someone who has an issue like “all his oars do not go into the water at the same time” and one who would beat you to death with the oar! You’re telling me that the shooter at VT had no apparent issues that would threaten others? Nor does the Arizona shooter? Both had parents that knew something was amiss, and they stood by and did nothing!

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Left wing mang.,

Exactly. They all fit the same profile. No friends, wear all black and despise God. Apparently this guy was giving off warning signs for years.

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ty

Me, too!

RW
I think, and it’s just my own thought here, that in his retrospection the Bruin IS in his heart of hearts aware and conscious of his own contributions to this problem of polarization. I think, and again it’s just my opinion, that he’s caught in a web not entirely of his own makings, it goes with the polarization part and parcel of the landscape of the media today and, well, you have to be careful of not biting the hand that feeds you and very careful in the meae culpae…I wouldn’t want to be in his position today…

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Ekerd,

Bingo. Why isn’t anyone citing Obama’s violent rhetoric from over the years? He’s been the exact opposite of the “uniter” he campaigned on.

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get a life…..Are grammar really that important?

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Jay..maybe next time you wont let the hate speech escalate for 17 hours before you shut it down..think about it.

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BB,

“Are grammar really that important?”

Not to me but there is teachers here on this blog.

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I wouldn’t want to be in his position today…

I wouldn’t either, but not for the reasons you guys are citing. I just dislike baby-sitting a bunch of whiners, and much of the time, that’s what Jay is called upon to do.

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I target the cute woman in the coffee shop that I am interested in getting to know.

I target financial accomplishments that I want to achieve.

I target professional goals that I am striving for.

I aim to be a better person in all endeavors.

I aim to please people.

I target my competition and try to out perform them.

-just saying

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“My question….In this day given the terror problem in the US, why was there no security at her event?”

Return question – and it’s not original to me, it’s being discussed on news sites – are we prepared to pay for security details for EVERY member of Congress and the government?

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Somebody forgot to tell HRC and the locall sheriff not to make it political.

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electrician

Jay’s not here (like me!) 24/7…he was playing golf (with Eisenhower, no doubt) and even if he does know what we’re going to say before we say it…seriously, though, he tried to reign it in as soon as he got back…give him credit…

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Nice column Jay BUT……

The left should not be allowed to use the term Rule of Law simply because they don’t believe that in the rule of law when it comes to people who are in this country illegally.

Congress has an almost single digit approval rating yet they want to make more laws prevent this.
How stupid can you get?

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Hmmm…where’s OREP?

I’m here, josef, but I’ve given up on this crew of language manglers.

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he was playing golf (with Eisenhower, no doubt)

heh.

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ty @ 10:39

Where do I sign up???

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USMC

The thing and idioms…it’s funny you should bring it up…just the other day I was being asked to report on a student’s particular academic problems…I said, “I’ve got him in my cross hairs..”

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md, interestingly enough, TR has evolved form his “Love is the Answer” days of the 70s. His latest LP (other than a cover of Robert Johnson songs) called Arena has a song on it called Manup that speaks to these new realities, which is not very utopian…

There’s a cloud in the distance
Rising from the dunes
Ten thousand riders
Blaze a trail of ruins
No doubt about it
They’re headed this way
Who will protect us on a judgment day?

Some are unready, some are unwilling
Hiding amongst the women and children
Manup
Rousing the rabble from under the bed
I’m calling you by name to bite the bullet
Manup

We didn’t want no trouble
But trouble’s what we have
You call it paranoia
And have yourself a laugh
And avoid the confrontation
Until some other year
Somebody call the boys cause there’s no men in here

Some are unready, some are unwilling
Some are still able but ain’t got the feeling
Talking real loud at the back of the crowd
I’m calling you by name to bite the bullet
Manup
Listen to me my friend
What you will not defend
Somebody else will end up takin’
And when the famine comes
You think they’ll just give you some
But if you believe that
You’re mistaken

http://tinyurl.com/4qssng3

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The event took place in a shopping center. Not even a mall cop or a parking lot security guard in a golf cart? If I was a guard, I would be at a crowd that was gathered.

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“First, the attack was perpetrated by a young man who by all available evidence is mentally ill. Anyone who tries to attribute a political agenda of any sort to a soul like that is himself trying to advance a political agenda. It is wrong and disrepectful to the victims of this tragedy to try to distort it for political gain. Please, don’t go there.”

JB, you disapppoint me. it would be wrong and “disrespectful to the victims” for others (including shameless media shills and opportunists) to use this incident (it was not a “tragedy”) to further their own political agenda, but for you and the rest of the media to diagnose the shooter as “mentally ill” and to dismiss this act of violence as the work of a “deranged loner” is no better than those who label political opponents as “evil”. please be so kind as to define the parameters of “mental illness” in your book? are those who believe the POTUS was born in Kenya (despite proof to the contrary) mentally ill “loners” (or a pack of loners) in your book? how about those who “believe” dinosaurs roamed the earth 10,000 years ago? or those who “believe” ANY unprovable cultural/regional theo-narrative. the fact that that shooter used a firearm makes him a criminal and a coward, but it seems to me to dismiss him as a “loner” and position this as some random act (like a plane crash or traffic accident) is the essence of “disrespectful” in my book. I resolved to stay away from this pointless blogging, but I guess I’ll take a Mulligan. and finally, I find it disturbing and disrespectful for lawmakers to use this incident to express concerns about their own personal safety (what’s next; A Department of Congressional Security?).

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Josef…a minor matter, but since you’re a teacher…it’s “rein” it in, not reign.

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People, there are just a lot of people among us who are “a brick or two short of a load”. We will never find one common thread to connect them and therefore, figure out how to stop them…ain’t gonna happen. As Forrest Gump would say…”Life is just like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get”.
Keep your ‘radar’ cranked up everyone…

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md/US

If people killed by law enforcement is included in that 9000+ count, then there could indeed be law abiding citizens that accounted for some of that statistic. I would think that would not be the case to include shootings involving officers of the peace in that count, but nowadays, you never know.

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OREP

RW
“I think that’s more what he takes upon himself to do and he’s highly selective about when and how he does it so he also brings it on himself”

I will agree he is highly selective, but that, too goes with the territory of his job. He has to answer to a board of editors and we don’t…he really doesn’t have the freedom of the press that he affords us…now, that said, I do find it interesting in his (the editorial board’s) pick and choose…

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Doggone

Rein is from the thing on the horse to direct it…reign is from the political rule…

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josef…Rain is what is coming down in Fayetteville now.

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“Rein is from the thing on the horse to direct it…reign is from the political rule”

But the term “rein it in” IS from horsemanship.

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/reign.html

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Hey getalife

Welcome back! “Big D” okay this time? Ever make it to Cowboys Stadium? Pretty amazing what you can get for $1.2 billion, eh?

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Doggone

Oops…didn’t finish my thought at 11:13…now, there’s the rule just so you’ll know I DO know the difference, but it’s another one of those errors that I make with consistency…that, and I don’t care what anybody says, reforme has an “e” and the end!

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In my experience, cross hairs are easily tangled and broken. It is much better to keep them parallel.

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“but it’s another one of those errors that I make with consistency”

My current biggie is “care” for car!

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Amvet,

See………even TR understands it is nothing more than a pipe dream….now.

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Just taking a test drive………….

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Since we are going on about grammar, what is the difference between “theatre” and “theater”?

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OREP, don’t give up on us manglers! We need your calm and correcting hand around here!

Jeezoo, the Cult of Victimhood is all cranked up again this morning.

Woe is us! Jay is SO selective and is so much harder on us poor put upon Republicans!

B&llsh*t.

Who, and what political persuasion was it that JB banished yesterday?

Yesterday was merely more proof that shrill foul-mouthed oafs exist on both fringes.

And that they have their tacit supporters…

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“but the whole leaping through the snow like a gazelle”

That’s what the pups have been doing…. they come back in — give a good shake, sit by the heater a bit, then cry to go back out.

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Doggone

Granddaddy used to tell me, “Jody, “e” may be the most common vowel in the English language, but that doesn’t mean every word has to have one!”

paleo
They both go back to the Indo-European root concept of to control, direct…

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TaxPayer

“By your command.” That’s a nod to the 70s original. It’d be so cool to hear that in real life. Kids? Forgetit. Wife? Not a chance. Coworkers? Haha.

Bosch

Anything with an re ending is likely Brit spelling. Lemme tell ya, when you first get over there it messes with your mind – especially the noun/verb agreement when what we treat as singular (company is) they treat as plural (company are), ’cause the company’s made up of workers, so it’s a plural agreement, don’t you see?

But ‘re’ just looks more pretentious -

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Oops, not verb, lest the grammarians have a field day. I need a smoothie to get blood sugar back up -

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BADA; according to Kurt Vonnegut, ther’s Ice9, but you really don’t wnt to see that one.

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While we do need to temper our reaction to the shootings, we do have to acknowledge that words before the rampage did matter. If someone is having an extreme reaction to the political and/or social environment, and they hear others express the same ideology in a violent or “cleansing” sort of way, they may think that a violent act is not only acceptable but necessary. Rhetoric does matter; after all, it is all about identification and persuasion. Sadly, moderate voices are usually the most silent or ignored when sensationalism and extremism is so much more affirming.

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Badus Bingus

“I don’t want to brag, but I just wrote my name in the snow. In Latin.”

Ummm…. what color?

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A question for you to ponder:

Note that the root of the word schizophrenic is split. Meanwhile I’m listening to a program where journalists, who by all accounts are psychologically normal, are agreeing more or less with the assertion that our violent political rhetoric is coming overwhelmingly from one particular corner of our political discourse and then in the same breath turn around and say that what they find most troubling is that none of us is willing to admit that we ourselves are to blame and instead insist on blaming the other side for the violence.

I ask you, is this itself not an example of a split that is perhaps just as pronounced as the delusions of the Tucson shooter? Could the real “schizophrenia” be in our political discourse itself?

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I always thought “theatre” was French and the English speaking world just misprounounces it?

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After the Fort Hood, Virginia Tech, and University of Alabama at Huntsville shootings, we were told by the liberal press that we should not jump to conclusions about a motive and that even Solomon would have been totally clueless as to what provoked these murders. But when a Democrat congresswoman was the target that all changed. Many attempts have been made by left wingers to blame the demonic dreaded right wing for this horrific and pointless slaughter. Some of the gunman’s rambling posts on the internet might lead one to believe that he was a left winger. Certainly his high school classmates described him as a pot smoking liberal. But I won’t do what the left is trying to do to the right. He was a nut with a gun who desperately wanted someone to pay attention to him. And he got that attention–his posts on the internet have been read by millions. Do the Second Amendment advocates really believe that a mentally unstable person should be allowed to purchase a Glock with a large capacity magazine so that he can efficiently kill and wound large numbers of people in a short period of time? Why not go back to the principles that our republic was founded on that anyone serving in a state militia may own as many mussel loading flintlocks as they wish? Would you extend the Second Amendment right to bear arms to nuclear weapons for kindergartens? The attempt to tar Sarah Palin and the rest of the American right with this tragic attack on a member of congress will eventually fail when it is shown to be totally absurd. The main effect of this will be that members of congress will no longer be willing to meet with their constituents for fear of their life. And who can blame them?

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Hi Paul.

I had a router go down and your stadium is the best in the country.

Brother called and said Big D got some snow too.

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Paul…..I even dotted the I, and crossed the ts and used punctuation. Talk about control!

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How many people still make snow ice cream?
(I know it is probably toxic, but boy it taste good)

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It would appear Getalife has gained access to Southern California’s women. Have you also regained access to the AJC blogs, Getalife?

I threw some bread crumbs out for the doves. They all flew away. Now I have to sweep up the bread.

I don’t know nuthin’ bout feeding birds. The one time I put out a bird feeder, the Cajun’s cats killed ‘em all. Who knew bird seed would serve as bait?

I like cats…my husband hates ‘em. Says they’re lazy freeloaders with an arrogant attitude. With a smile on his face, he accused me of killing ‘em with my caring. Since the only thing he can do in the kitchen is boil water, I put a bullion cube on his plate for three days straight.

It’s the thought that counts.

schnirt

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josef, our Louisiana Catahoula took three steps out and whizzed on our snow-covered driveway.

No long trek to the yard for her . . .

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“I believe that ANYONE who wishes to possess/own or operate a firearm should not only be thoroughly analyzed for a background check, but MOST IMPORTANTLY required to pass a rigorous training course for safety first and marksmanship and responsibility secondly, sort of like a much more detailed drivers licensure process”

I wouldn’t dissagree with that, but I have an additional take on it. Given the “2nd amendment” rhetoric…I think EVERY gun owner should be require to be a member of a state militia and attend regular training sessions. Even if they’re handicapped, they can do office work or something, and they can still attend gun use and safety training.

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@: @@

Real men know how to cook.

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“Not to mention the $1500 it costs to GET a license. but then in Germany, they have mass transit that works and bike paths that are wide enough for a whole battalion to run on. Not exactly comparing apples and oranges……..”

Good point, but they are much better drivers, safer and more responsible than the average driver in the US because they are made to pass rigorous driving tests including written and practical application… but your point is valid.

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PLUS they know to stay the hell out of the left lane except when they are passing. I miss the autobahn………..

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Matti: Don’t forget that the birds like raw rice like the type thrown at weddings………..

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How many people still make snow ice cream?

Well, given that the liquid was blown up this way from the Gulf of BP…

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“Well, given that the liquid was blown up this way from the Gulf of BP…”

Yeah, natural psychedelics… Come on, Where is that Inner Hippy in you?

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TaF Kaf ,

The D-Link passed away.

Netgear is the new baby .

The D-Link lived to be around ten years old.

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Josef:

Many are called, few are chosen.

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Classmates describe the shooter as “Left-wing pothead”:

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

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“Middle of the conservation or not, your comments were still just as ignorant and lazy.”

Context………may behoove you to learn the meaning.

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Jay. thanks for the article, and I hope for the life of me that we, as a people, will pay more attention to the severe, SEVERE problem of mental illness as it plagues us as a nation. Indeed, I would submit that mental illness is the most costly and tragic disease in our society.

One line that has become far too blurry is the difference between “political” debate and “partisan” debate. The Left v. Right match-up is not a political debate, it is a partisan debate. There is only name calling, no solutions. The shooting was a political shooting, but the motivation was partisan. The individual was a megalomaniac with severe delusions. Medical science has nothing for people like this and they are and have been stigmatized for centuries.

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Here’s your motive. Look no more …………………..

TUCSON, Ariz. — “At an event roughly three years ago, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords took a question from Jared Loughner, the man accused of trying to assassinate her and killing six other people. According to two of his high school friends the question was essentially this: “What is government if words have no meaning?”

Loughner was ANGRY about her response — she read the question and didn’t have much to say.”

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FYI, Jay,

You got a really good “plug” on “The Georgia Gang” (Tv show) yesterday by Jeff Dickerson in regard to your article about the importance of education last week.

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Scout – 11:47 – did you miss the part of the lede that said THREE YEARS AGO?

yes, the guy was a nut, but come on … three YEARS

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Is the mail running today. Hey! Don’t look at me. They’re the ones with the motto.

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“I doubt the thugs/gang members in possession of illegal weapons are going to run down to the nearest testing authority and get with the program…………”

I agree with you. An interesting point was made yesterday about Washington DC’s strict gun laws and the number of murders due to hand guns. I forgot the exact number, but DC had more gun killings last week by criminals with Illegally obtained firearms than most or any other city in the US.

Also, the evidence is very clear with regard to the ridiculous gun laws in the UK.

Don’t quote me on stats, but I was shocked at the SURGE in crime shown statistically when the guns were outlawed to the citizenry. Look it up. It is one of the great case studies against strict, nonsensical gun laws that take gun ownership away from responsible citizens.

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“did you miss the part of the lede that said THREE YEARS AGO?”

I’d hazard a guess that three years of stewing may have some bearing on the situation……or maybe not.

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Obama will band guns now. Makes sense, since banning cars will keep drunks off the road so they can’t kill people.

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USinUK,

I <3 Dick Winters! Am so grateful to him for sharing his stories.

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With all due respect, I don’t think he had any idea just how out of hand it would get…

josef,

Even if Jay B was naive enough to not know that when he first started blogging he surely must know by now. Think about how many times he’s cautioned about the tone of the debate right in his initial posting. And in case our village idiot is still hanging on my every word I once again didn’t make that left vs. right.

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Dusty:

You hit several nails with your 11:55. Granny Godzilla? Never doubt that she’ll be here incognito to deliver what she apologized for.

She’s devious that way.

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Bob – and I’m sure you have evidence that backs up your assertion that Obama plans to ban cars … and guns … we’ll await your link

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“Auburn cheated with a pro quarterback”

Please pass all proof along to the NCAA……….they ruled there wasn’t any. They may appreciate what you have to provide…………..

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getalife

“They dominated A&M Aggies.”

That’s a polite understatement.

LSU should have been playing tonight? One can make a case.

TCU woulda taken’em, though -

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usuk,

I think the term is “grudge”………..did he have one……time may or may not tell.

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@@, you are right on top of these things. Let me know the names when some of the favorites here go “incognito”.

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“LSU should have been playing tonight? One can make a case.”

And I agree with Paul…..TCU could make a better case………….

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md: “Again, we are dealing with percentages”

I’m sorry, but you can observe someone being crazy and at least suggest/make someone, esp a dependant, go to the doctor. From what we know about this guy, it wouldn’t have taken 5 minutes to commit him!

USinUK: Good Afternoon! Why did you send us the snow we are having? I guess when it was shovled, it had to be placed somewhere? But it’s a great wine chiller!

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Scout: “What is government if words have no meaning?””

I wonder what the congresswoman’s response to this question was. Doubtless she had no idea that her answer was literally a “your money or your life moment”, with her life literally on the line. As a psychologically ‘normal’ person, she could hardly have realized that the person who asked it meant it with deadly earnestness.

A paradox to ponder:

In the world of the psychotic words have no meaning, the result of which is that words mean everything.

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you folks are missing the point. there are no “thugs”. there are no liberals. there are no tea parties, moochers, producers, or parasites. there are no “mentally ill loners acting alone”. homo sapiens have been using violence to attain political ends since (if you believe Sarah Palin) god and Moses killed all them Egyptians in the Red Sea. bin Laden was an “asset” until he became a liability. Tim McVeigh was a “soldier” until he became a terrorist. John Kerry was a decorated Naval officer until “swiftboat” became a verb. and we all know Lee Harvey Oswald’s back story. “We like to blame our leaders for a lot of our own shortcomings these days”. JB, I can’t believe you actually wrote this. are you telling me it is easier to “blame” a “mentally unstable loner”? wringing our hands over the “motive” behind this crime is like Capt. Renaut being ’shocked to learn there is gambling at Rick’s.’

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“From what we know about this guy, it wouldn’t have taken 5 minutes to commit him!”

You are aware that for the most part, many states no longer have mental hospitals…right?

We “commit” them and then put them out on the street or release them to family members…….I deal with it on a daily basis…….and unfortunately, the “law” can do nothing until after something occurs………………..they will not, and can not arrest folks that may do something bad.

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“True.

The Horned Frogs are undefeated.”

So are the Peewee Redskins at Chastain Park.

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I’m not out to “defend” the Bruin per se. He’s quite capable of doing that himself as he feels the need. I am saying, though, that like the rest of us, in doing his job, he can get as roll-on-Columbia as any and then, when not playing close attention…all hell can break loose. For reasons of my own, I do believe he is taking a closer look now at what his children are doing and how much he himself has played into that, As far as he being a member of the editorial board, he is that. I would also like to be a fly-on-the-wall there, too, Given the general tone of the AJC, I would say that he is not always in the majority. They could use more introspection and he, I think, could offer that. He does, after all, have a moral compass.

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Violence is never the solution to problems. That is why government solutions always fail – they are based on the premise of violence.

Let’s review. If I advocate a policy that allows the free market and individuals to make decisions through voluntary exchange of money, etc. for goods or services then I am advocating a truly peaceful process.

If on the other hand I do not wish to allow people to voluntarily choose, allow businesses to operate free of government regulations and controls, then I am advocating the use of the government force mechanism, its guns, its prisons, and ultimately the spector of death as a potential punishment for not complying with the laws I wished passed.

Those who “advocate” for the poor, the needy, the “you fill in the blanks” try to pass themselves off as benevolent types with only love and goodness in their hearts yet the first thing they want is for the violent state to pass laws, throw people in prison, steal their money, and kill them if they resist. Just look at how gun-toting FDA agents have raided doctors offices, health food stores, etc. over the advocacy of vitamins and other natural solutions to diseases.

When talking to your ignorant friends on both the left and the right, remind them that one either advocates liberty, freedom, and a peaceful, voluntary mechanism to solve problems, or YOU are bringing guns to the debate.

Violence is the mechanism of the state. That is all it is good at. We who advocate liberty and freedom must never sink to their level. We must educate and encourage our fellow citizens to peacefully withdraw their consent, for that is all that ultimately supports the state and its violent ways.

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“SEC still dominates college football.”

Amen, we are so lucky to have the great product that is SEC Football.

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…”a member of Congress and a member of the Jewish faith…”

I missed the importance of the “Jewish faith” part…

Is the shooter now Anti Semitic?

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My sense of alarm causes me to wave the “red flag” warning. I’m worried about what we haven’t learned over the past 150 years since the Civil War (War Between the States)ended. Each of our political parties, in some way and fashion, has touted the belief that “I’m right and you’re evil.”

America has new issues. The world is watching us. Our enemies are planning their strategies against us. Perhaps as it was 150 years ago, our way of life and the preservation of our democratic ideal are in danger.

The most interesting part of this story so far emphasizes the political climate of our citizenry. Congresswoman Giffords herself during a recent interview with MSNBC stated, “We’re on Sarah Palin’s targeted list, but the thing is, that the way she has depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district (map). When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action.”

Palin has since removed this “crosshair” reference from her website.

Am I implicating the Tea Party movement? Certainly not!!!

But some of their political philosophies and slogans, especially those endorsed by the Radical-Right, will be coming under close scrutiny by the talking heads as this story unfolds. I’ll be watching a lot of FOX NEWS this week and now that I’m retired, I have time to listen to the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.

Over the next several days, the talking heads will be speculating about why this happened. There will be tears, endless commentary, lots of blame, and most certainly, a touch of hate here and there. The various pundits from the Far-Left and the Radical-Right will be posturing their positions; each placing blame on the other side.

And the question of protocol will arise again. Have the lessons of the Civil War taught us to peacefully and respectfully agree on how to disagree without bloodshed? Is history doomed to repeat itself?

Perhaps a little out of context but Rodney King, infamous for enduring a police beating back on March 3, 1991 said it best.

“Can we all just get along?”

We’d better learn how to get along with each other and damn quick if America is to survive.

http://thoughtsofasouthernyankee.com/

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Paul,

The SEC homer sort of escaped me there.

TCU played a great game against Wis. and deserves everything it earned this season “on the field of play”.

Good show!

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“He did not like government officials, how they spoke. Like they were just trying to cover up some conspiracy,” the friend added.–U.S. News

Told ‘ya it was about political speak.

It’s scary to think I have such insight into the mind of a deranged individual.

Dusty:

There’s no point in pointing fingers at jay’s cogs. He wouldn’t expose ‘em. It would diminish his numbers.

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Is the mail running today. Hey! Don’t look at me. They’re the ones with the motto.

A few years ago during one of these things, our mail didn’t run because “we couldn’t get the trucks out”. My great uncle used to deliver the mail on a mule, regardless of the weather. I guess that’s what they call progress.

three years is a long time between cause and action

Not really. In my world, I’ve seen many a grudge carried for decades.

Auburn cheated with a pro quarterback

I have no idea what Cam Newton or his Dad, did or didn’t do. I do know, if I was a young athlete making millions for the University, I’d want a piece of the action, too. They should have long ago, dropped the student athlete charade and pay the players. Division 1 football is a business, a quasi-minor league for the NFL, and everybody is making a killing, except the players.

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Yay, football talk. I am so glad that the Eagles lost. If the Falcons had to play Vick, it would take away from their great story. If we played vick, all the announcers would have talked about is his comeback. ATL doesn’t need the distraction, they need to keep their heads on the game.

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Southern Yankee,

Not so sure that this shooter fits so neat and pretty in your,”right-wing, extremist” fantasy.

Classmates described shooter as Left-wing pothead:
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

Comments by Barak Obama:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

But I would never blame Leftwing radicals OR Obama for this young man’s actions. HE, the man who pulled the trigger, is the ONLY person responsible.

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Auburn Tigers… The best darned college football team money can buy.

(said by a sour graped Georgia fan upset that we didn’t pay enough for a great team:-)

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“Yay, football talk. I am so glad that the Eagles lost.”

Had the Eagles won, we would have played the seahawks first………don’t know about the rest of you, but I for one think GB is a much better team than SEA……….may very well be a one and done scenario………….

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After a Muslim terrorist shouted “Allahu Akbar” after murdering 13 at Fort Hood, we were told not to jump to conclusions, but now that a pothead, anti-God/Christian Mein Kampf reader kills 6 it’s ok for the media to shamefully and pathetically try and attached this liberal nutjob to Sarah Palin?

Am I missing something here??

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“Am I missing something here??”

No Alex, you are spot on and that’s a great point.

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Yes, alex, you’re missing the moron gene. It’s what makes libbtards libbtards.

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OREP
Thanks…that was sort of my opinion, too, but I wasn’t sure…

USMC
I think the shooter would qualify as an anti-Semite…not sure whether he’s the left wing or right wing variety, though…the rhetorical I’ve heard has a left wing tinge to it, though…

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‘our leaders do what we tell them to do’…..recent history has shown this is not the case…

another sad part to this, other than the obvious, is that this coward, POS douchebag will get his day in court and the defense will try to say it was the guns fault.

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OK JOSEF.

You feel that political correctness (job) might be more important than ethical correctness for Bookman.

Yes, Bookman has a moral compass. But sometimes I feel it slants a little left instead of north.

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and just how were the Falcoons lucky to beat GB the first time? to be the best, you gotta beat the best….

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Those of you desperately clinging to the idea that Loughner’s attack was politically motivated might want to remember that one of the folks who was targeted was a Republican federal judge.

How’s them politics now, haters?

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I’m glad I missed the blog over the weekend. I did however go back and read some of the comments. All I can say is Wow!! I hope I never have to meet some of you guys in a dark alley after you’ve had a crappy day!

Guys before we were LIberal, or Republican or Moderate or gay or straight or black or white or green…….we were AMERICANS. Some of us are Americans by choice and some of us are Americans by birth but choose to remain Americans by choice. Why can’t we remember that?

Hi josef! Hi Paul!! How are you guys enjoying your “snow day” today?

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Whoops, the moderator said my post was a repeat. I thought it meant REMOVED. So I modified it. Sorry for the similarities.

hmmm I think I will go to lunch. Snow cancels BurgerKing so it is leftovers!!

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Yes, Bookman has a moral compass. But sometimes I feel it slants a little left instead of north.

And which way does yours slant Dusty? Just asking……….

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DUSTY
Yes, his moral compass does have a left slant the same as yours has a right one…

The Bruin is a joke that goes back to one night when I was taking some jabs at Jay in (what I thought!) his absence…Hillbilly wanted to know if I was the kid that went poking the bear with sticks at the zoo…and, lo! The Bruin growled…

I never claimed that political correctness, in general, should override what you would call ethical correctness and whenever I DO jibe at Jay, it’s that point I try to make…however, when writing for a particular journal there is a political slant and the “correct” thing to do is to toe that line, i.e. do what you were hired to do. Jay was hired to be a liberal. Others were not and they, too, are expected to toe the line. For instance, I have a philosophical objection to reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. I am hired by the APS where the recitation is a part of the daily routine. I will stand, hand over heart and model for the children as per the dictates of my job. I don’t think that’s hypocritical. I’m doing what I was hired to do.

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Chris Matthews: “Somebody’s going to jam a CO2 pellet into [Rush Limbaugh's] head and he’s going to explode like a giant blimp. That day may come, not yet, but Ill be there to watch”
———–

No comment from the hater left.

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Geez…finally in from digging the wiener dog pee pit…that pretty fluffy snow has now crusted over with ice. Methinks the Tuesday will be worse.

Anyway, I’m not sure I am understanding the argument that “incident itself was not political” due to the attack being perpetrated by “a young man who by all available evidence is mentally ill.”

Does that mean that John Hinckley’s, Arthur Bremer’s, and Nidal Hasan’s crimes were not political as well? Does that mean someone who is mentally ill can’t be motivated by politics?

It would seem to me that someone who is mentally ill could be quite motivated (no matter how convoluted the reasoning) by politics to do something this heinous. They would not have mainstream political affiliations, because a political party would quite quickly see the nature of the person and they would not be welcome…further isolating them and their political beliefs.

Targeting a Congressperson and a Federal Judge, people not affiliated with the shooter, speaks to the political nature of the attack. Otherwise it would have been a shooting at a college campus, mall, train station, etc, such as Seung-Hui Cho or Robert Hawkins.

I just do not understand how one can separate the political nature of this attack by citing mental health.

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Sheesh!

Christina TAYLOR Green. She resembles the little Tyler fella I worked with in school.

I remember the first time I met Tyler. Our speech therapist carried him into the room. He was small for his age and unable to walk. My initial response?

“Oh, look….he’s a baby.” Our speech therapist set me straight real quick.

Live and learn!

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DebbieDo,

Are you a Bulldog or Tiger?

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Lil Barry – grow up. Everyone else is at least trying to ratchet down the separatist speech, while you, try to fan the embers. Go play in the snow for a while and let the grown ups blog. Thanks.

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If he’s anti-Semitic then he’s liberal. Even the lefties can’t get their own spin right. Fact is, the Congresswoman is a Reaganite compared to Obama.

We do know he reads Mein Kempf (makes him anti-Semitic/liberal right there) hates Christians (liberal) loves drugs (liberal) and refers to our leaders as Zionists (terrorist/liberal)

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josef..you are a well known veteran of this blog,not prone to being reactive or closed minded,but your defense of Jay on this topic is baseless.The political posturing began almost immediatley after posting.the post accomplised his end,the protracted tar and feather assault on conservatives.Some things that happen should not be immediatley discussed in opinion columns,as evidenced by Jays damage control posting today.

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If the socialist liberals would not try to take our freedoms away with crap like Obamacare then other wise sane (or insane in this case) people would not be pushed to the breaking point. Backing free people into a corner has consequences just as elections do.

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usmc dawg

Ok, we get the point, for both sides but now it is more about blame inflation, on and on…

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@@, “Amazing courage in the face of tragedy”

Hadn’t seen that interview. Thanks for sharing. Truly amazing courage that I don’t think I would have in the same circumstance. As a parent the thought of that happening to my daughter sure hits hard. God bless that family.

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I’m a Tiger by default (Dudley graduated from Auburn).

But don’t cry for me, i’m also a Yellow Jacket by default, a Gator by default, a Husky by default, a Commodore by default and a Hurricane by default. MY favorite team though is Florida State.

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alex
I am a liberal and I said that I felt his anti-semitism was of the left bent more than the right…anti semites come in all political persuasions. Some of the most vitriolic anti-Christian rhetoric on this blog has come from the right. That, like anti-semitism, knows no left-right division, Drugs? I thought they were democratic in appeal!

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Targeting a Congressperson and a Federal Judge…

jewcowboy

From every account I’ve seen nobody would have known the federal judge was going to be there so saying he was specifically targeted is a bit disingenuous. There is also a story about this particular congresswoman treating this guy with what he viewed as a lack of respect. It’s quite possible this wasn’t politically motivated at all.

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Darn, was hoping for another it’s cold because of global warming thread…..Those are always amusing.

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alex,

“Remember, the left has zero morals or principles, they only seek to exploit.”

Statements like that illustrate exactly what type of person you are. And make every statement you post hence force totally lack any credibility.

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Willie and others: If you’re so upset, let me suggest a 14th Amendment remedy: vote. All of the complaints about “bailouts”, “wasteful government spending” and “Obamacare being rammed down our throats” were passed by a democratically elected Congress in what may well be the most fraud-free electoral system in the world. If I don’t like the result (and this time I didn’t), I just have to work harder next time around. That doesn’t mean that I have to use violent rhetoric or accuse those who don’t agree with me as somehow evil or being involved in some sinister plot to destroy America and its values.

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Alex, willie and Shawny – here we go. Just couldn’t resist going back to the hate could ya? You know what amazes me? I look at S. AFrica, who just a few years ago was suffering from apartheid, and I see how HARD they are trying to change their country for the better, how hard they are trying to bridge racial, cultural and political divides, and then I look at some of the people on this blog who hang on to hate and bitterness like a warm blanket.

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“I’ve known a number of anti-Semites. They were all conservative. I’ve never known a liberal anti-Semite. It’s an oxymoron.”

Actually Fang, I have found MANY Liberal/Secular Jews in the US to be antisemitic, ironically.
Go figure.

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jewcowboy

The more I read about him, the more all over the board he comes across…

electrician
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t see it as inciting in the beginning. Perhaps he should have been here and taken a stronger stance to quelch to venom from both sides. Perhaps he felt a need to let it go so people could have a space to vent as we all were trying to come to terms with what had just happened. I don’t know. I do know that when it came time to send posters packing, it was the left that he sent into exile.

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By to say just because someone is mentally ill, it is not political is patently false.

Just so there’s no confusion, I’ve never said that.

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I wonder where that early rumor originated that the shooter was an Afghanistan war veteran?

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http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/01/coming-internet-national-id-card.html

Wiki-leaks was all a show put on by big bro.

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A good many of the Huff’nPuffers are speculating as to who may have offed Ashley Turton.

Ashley Turton, director of congressional affairs for Progress Energy, was found dead in a burning car Monday morning in Washington, Politico reports. Turton’s husband is White House deputy director of House legislative affairs, Dan Turton.

According to the Washington Post, “a preliminary investigation indicated that the car crashed into the garage of a home in the 800 block of A Street SE.”

Maybe she had a seizure while driving? Swerved to miss something or someone? Dropped her cigarette (if she smoked) on the floorboard? Had a sneezing or coughing attack?

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Left Wing Management @ 12:11:

You’re beginning to sound like him.

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“take you up on it” I intended to say …Hey snow…

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USinUK:

I guarded against people like him for 27 years. You don’t realize how much they become fixated over one person ……….. for years. Three years is nothing. For some it’s a lifetime.

That’s exactly what Hinckley did.

Time means nothing to them as they are in their own world anyway.

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RW-(the original),

“Just so there’s no confusion, I’ve never said that.”

No confusion…Jay is the one that said it above.

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Scout: “You’re beginning to sound like him.”

That’s my aim.

In part, anyway.

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No confusion…Jay is the one that said it above.

He did? He always gets grumpy when I comment on what he’s written so I quit reading it.

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DebbieDoRight

January 10th, 2011
1:15 pm
Liberals are hate. They hate everything that is American and traditional. They read the constitution as if they wrote it today. You call the pot black dont you kettle? Liberals are going to cause more of the same and it happens all the time. But this case involved a politician and gets a high profile. You liberals can not deceive everyone all the time.

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Left Wing Management:

Great person to emulate ………….. but alas, you have arrived.

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Doggone/GA…sure

“I think EVERY gun owner should be require to be a member of a state militia and attend regular training”

This would have helped Cheyney or, should I say ,his unfortunate ‘friend’?

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DebbieDoRight,

Florida State did a great job in the Chick Fil A [formerly known as the Peach] Bowl! I’m trying to remain calm about tonight. So long as the power and cable don’t go out, I’ll be fine! If they do, I’m puttting on snow boots and trudging out into the great white wilderness in search of working cable.

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Just like the liberal democrats to use this criminal act as a way to destroy our Constutitional Rights to bear arms. The criminal that did this act of horror needs to be hanged after his day in court. GOD be with the victoms and their families.

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USMC dawg,

“I am just pointing out the inconsistency in your argument.”

There is no inconsistency. You will find plenty of quotes from people on the left that use violent rhetoric. I’m not saying otherwise. What I am saying the pundits and politicians right has been more vocal and embracing of that type of rhetoric as a whole and it has consequences. Like the boy who cried wolf, sometimes the consequences aren’t fair.

That being said, the quote from your link:
“Mobster wisdom tells us never to bring a knife to a gun fight. But what does political wisdom say about bringing a gun to a knife fight?”

is more of idiomatic phrasing than violent rhetoric. People use that expression everyday, and it doesn’t connotate a violent act. I’m not discounting violent rhetoric can be found on the left, I just think that particular quite is not one of them.

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Mr B
@ 1:40
You don’t want to go there with me! Nine times out of ten in my opinion anti-zionist is merely code-word-for…but I get into trouble for saying that…
Gone upstairs…

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a Brit opinion

Jared Loughner and ‘violent rhetoric’

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