Aftermath of Tucson shooting as dismaying as actual event
Judging from comments well into Sunday, people still feel a need to vent regarding the tragic shooting Saturday in Tucson. However, before we start down this treacherous road again, let me at least try to put things into context.
First, the attack was perpetrated by a young man who by all available evidence is mentally ill. Anyone who tries to attribute a political agenda of any sort to a soul like that is himself trying to advance a political agenda. It is wrong and disrepectful to the victims of this tragedy to try to distort it for political gain. Please, don’t go there.
However, if the incident itself was not political, there’s no question that the reaction to it became intensely political. What could have and should have been an opportunity to unite as Americans was instead quickly seized as an opportunity to divide ourselves further, to heighten rather than dampen the animosity and vitriol. The reaction told us a lot more about ourselves as a country than did the initial incident, and it was not reassuring.
We like to blame our leaders for a lot of our own shortcomings these days. Congress, for example, has never been held in lower esteem. But the truth is that our elected leaders are doing what we tell them to do. The pettiness and rhetoric in Washington reflect our own selfishness and shortsightedness here at home, and if we don’t like what they mirror back at us, well, blaming the mirror is never the answer.
That said, our elected leadership for the most part has acted appropriately and cautiously in response to Saturday’s attack, perhaps because the violence struck one of their own. Whatever the reason, the poison that infected our discussion over the weekend bubbled up from below, from among us, rather being inspired from above. The ugliness and rancor was our doing, not theirs. We — speaking in general terms — were handed a chance to leap at each others’ throats again, and too many of us eagerly jumped at it.
A lot has been made about the misuse of violent metaphors, such as crosshairs on websites and turns of phrases in speeches. For the most part, that’s nonsense. Metaphors and turns of phrases do not drive violence, and those who try to claim otherwise are again trying to smear their political opponents with innocent blood. They are contributing to the problem they claim to be identifying.
That said, “Second Amendment remedies” is not a metaphor; it is a direct legitimization of violence. American political thought is infected with the idea that violence is a legitimate political tool that can and should be employed at some unspecified point, when some unspecified political actor takes some unspecified political action that crosses some unspecified line. The decision of when such a line is crossed is typically left to the would-be patriot, but always with the suggestion that the line is getting closer, the day is drawing nearer, the threat is growing larger.
That mindset is fed by descriptions of our elected leadership as tyrants or as illegitimate usurpers out to destroy America. After all, once their tyrannical and destructive character is established, violence as a means of addressing the threat to liberty becomes justified. “Sic semper tyrannis,” as John Wilkes Booth so infamously proclaimed.
Again, there is no evidence that Jared Loughner was responding in any way to that ideology rather than to the voices echoing in his own head. But it is foolishness to pretend that others out there cannot be seduced by the false romanticism and heroism inherent in the idea of political violence.
Finally, we as a people need to acknowledge and adjust our thinking to the changing mediascape. We humans have always been afflicted with demagogues, as the ancient roots of that word demonstrate. But the easy accessibility of modern media has done more than give would-be demagogues a louder voice. There is now money to be made and a following to be gained by stripping us of our larger loyalties to the country and instead dividing us into cliques and cults defined by our animosity to each other.
Free and open debate is the lifeblood of democracy, and it is not always a genteel process. But we set the boundaries of appropriate rhetoric when we decide where to place our loyalty and attention. And we will pay the consequences of choosing wrongly.
– Jay Bookman
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627 comments Add your comment
John Birch
January 10th, 2011
1:35 pm
@@ – Politicos and family members turn up dead all the time during Dem administrations. Remember poor Vince Foster?
Paulo977
January 10th, 2011
1:35 pm
Doggone/GA…sure
“I think EVERY gun owner should be require to be a member of a state militia and attend regular training”
This would have helped Cheyney or, should I say ,his unfortunate ‘friend’?
Left wing management
January 10th, 2011
1:35 pm
Scout: “Great person to emulate ………….. but alas, you have arrived.”
What does “sound like” have to do with “emulate” ?
Matti
January 10th, 2011
1:35 pm
DebbieDoRight,
Florida State did a great job in the Chick Fil A [formerly known as the Peach] Bowl! I’m trying to remain calm about tonight. So long as the power and cable don’t go out, I’ll be fine! If they do, I’m puttting on snow boots and trudging out into the great white wilderness in search of working cable.
kayaker 71
January 10th, 2011
1:37 pm
Bookman,
I think that today you graduated from being a liberal blog jockey to a journalist. Nice piece.
TruthBe
January 10th, 2011
1:39 pm
Just like the liberal democrats to use this criminal act as a way to destroy our Constutitional Rights to bear arms. The criminal that did this act of horror needs to be hanged after his day in court. GOD be with the victoms and their families.
Mr_B
January 10th, 2011
1:40 pm
USMC Dawg: You may be confusing “anti-Zionist” with “anti-semetic.” You don’t have to hate or dislike Jews to believe that the State of Isreal doesn’t have the right to steal property from the Palestinians.
jewcowboy
January 10th, 2011
1:43 pm
USMC dawg,
“I am just pointing out the inconsistency in your argument.”
There is no inconsistency. You will find plenty of quotes from people on the left that use violent rhetoric. I’m not saying otherwise. What I am saying the pundits and politicians right has been more vocal and embracing of that type of rhetoric as a whole and it has consequences. Like the boy who cried wolf, sometimes the consequences aren’t fair.
That being said, the quote from your link:
“Mobster wisdom tells us never to bring a knife to a gun fight. But what does political wisdom say about bringing a gun to a knife fight?”
is more of idiomatic phrasing than violent rhetoric. People use that expression everyday, and it doesn’t connotate a violent act. I’m not discounting violent rhetoric can be found on the left, I just think that particular quite is not one of them.
Billybob
January 10th, 2011
1:43 pm
“the poison that infected our discussion over the weekend bubbled up from below, from among us, rather being inspired from above. The ugliness and rancor was our doing, not theirs”
Bookman,
The poison that infected the discussion was from the far left liberals and the ugliness and rancor was not my doing, but the doing of the far left and the lamestreet ‘far left’ media…..I’ll make that distinction, that you so easily dismissed, very clear and concise for your readers……what say you…..
josef nix
January 10th, 2011
1:44 pm
Mr B
@ 1:40
You don’t want to go there with me! Nine times out of ten in my opinion anti-zionist is merely code-word-for…but I get into trouble for saying that…
Gone upstairs…
Blue
January 10th, 2011
1:44 pm
Jonothan; can you post ANYTHING that isn’t about someone being gay? I mean…we get it, dude. Really…
Paulo977
January 10th, 2011
1:44 pm
a Brit opinion
Jared Loughner and ‘violent rhetoric’
ultra right wing
January 10th, 2011
1:47 pm
Still waiting for jewcowboy to point out all these examples of conservatives exhorting followers to violence- aint ever seen “no justice no peace” threats of violence from the right. Haven’t seen any right wing riots either. Sure have seen plenty of voter intimidation, riots, and outright threats from the left as in the examples I posted above. Where is all this right wing violence that jewcowboy speaks of? Well it doesn’t exist of course.
jewcowboy
January 10th, 2011
1:47 pm
ultra right wing,
“Please show idiot. ”
“Please show me jewcowboy. I’m waiting…….”
And you can keep waiting. If you can’t post something without hurling insults at me then you can bite my lily white ass.
Common Sense isn't very Common
January 10th, 2011
1:52 pm
Matti@1:35 pm
I’m trying to remain calm about tonight. So long as the power and cable don’t go out, I’ll be fine! If they do, I’m puttting on snow boots and trudging out into the great white wilderness in search of working cable.
———————————–
Just howl so we can find you in the snowy wilderness
Mr_B
January 10th, 2011
1:55 pm
Jonix: I’m not trying to imply that the Isreali- Palestinian problem is not immensely complex, and I certainly don’t know the answers. Using “anti-semite” to describe everyone who opposes Isreali expansion is just as intellectually dishonest as calling any supporter of health care reform a socialist or calling any opponent of abortion a fascist goon. Just one more label we use to demonize those who don’t agree with us. If it is ever going to stop, I would sumbit that it has to stop with us.
DawgDad
January 10th, 2011
1:56 pm
Well, Jay, you can take Rep. John Lewis and Bill Clinton and stuff them up your pipe. Apparently, they didn’t get the message.
As for the Second Amendment, Jay, it means if the minions of the political left try to come take away MY free speech rights they better bring the heavy artillery. Conservatives don’t shoot politicians, period.
Lil' Barry Bailout
January 10th, 2011
1:58 pm
DebbieDoRight: Go play in the snow for a while and let the grown ups blog.
————–
Sorry Deb, but that’s not going to happen. The libbtards whole point with their hate-filled attacks on Americans who disagree with them is to get them to shut up.
We won’t go back to your Idiot Messiah’s obscene spend-fest and big-government-control fest. November 2 saw to that.
ultra right wing
January 10th, 2011
2:00 pm
jewcowboy,
Gotta call it like I see it. And when you make idiotic statements with absolutely no factual basis then of course I have to call you out for what you are- an idiot. Best for you to be quiet and let people think you an idiot than for you to blog and confirm it.
I guess you won’t be providing all your ample evidence of Rush Limbaugh, Beck, and all the other right wingers openly calling for violence or “no justice no peace” like Maxine Waters and her ilk. You can’t provide evidence of this because it doesn’t exist.
All you got is your idiotic rhetoric based on your own particular brand of fearmongering and hatemongering. You have zero factual evidence of conservatives exhorting violence or participating in organized violence or intimidation. Zilch. Can’t say the same for the left though. Numerous examples of intimidation, rioting, and calls for violence as I very clearly pointed out.
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
2:02 pm
Liberals are hate. They hate everything that is American and traditional. They read the constitution as if they wrote it today. You call the pot black dont you kettle?
williebkind – when you meet your maker, old scratch, make sure to repeat that to him. If there’s any justice in the world, you’ll be tossed in a pit and all those hated “liberals” can poke you with pitchforks.
Service employees international union
January 10th, 2011
2:03 pm
ultra right wing,
You left me out. I also like to use my left wing goons to intimidate people and engage in physical altercations with the people I try to silence.
josef nix
January 10th, 2011
2:05 pm
Blue
Yeah, we get the point. You’ve got issues. Quite frankly, I was glad to hear he was gay. Why? Well, to some of us it means something. Just like I was glad to hear that one of the ones who took him down was a 61 year old Granny…
Mr. B
Yeah, I hear you, but just go and look and see how many times the matter is phrased as “Israeli” policy or the State of Israel. It sounds good the way you put it, but, and again just my feelings, but that ain’t what is at work…a few here and there can make the distinction but they are just that, few and far between…
ultra right wing
January 10th, 2011
2:05 pm
Debbiedoright is funny. She talks about hate and then says someone who disagrees with her deserves to be in a pit- presumably hellfire- and have leftists poking him with pitchforks. Its funny when leftwingers like herself can’t even see their own hate.
josef nix
January 10th, 2011
2:07 pm
DDR
@ 2:02
Heh, heh!
josef nix
January 10th, 2011
2:09 pm
ultra right wing…
L-rd you’ve GOT to be ultra right wing to think DDR is a left winger…sorry, DDR, but you know I do think you’re to the right of me!
paleo-ultra right wing plutocrat
January 10th, 2011
2:11 pm
“And when you make idiotic statements with absolutely no factual basis then of course I have to call you out for what you are”. interesting take. this is how the Limbaughs and Becks (and Palins and “Second Amendment Solution” types) operate. they prent hyperbolic, nativist, xeno-phobic, homo-phobic garbage as “fact”. they use the word “progressive” as a slur, and they nurture distrust and hate for “academics” and “intellectuals”. they reduce a complex issue to a primal base level (”don’t retreat/reload”) and shamelessless spin incidents like this for their own political gain. hey jewcowboy@ 12:57, what’s so hard to understand? any Bible-thumping Christian will be glad to tell you the story of how Pilate “washed his hands” of Christ. the media and the politicians (and the Palin-Huckabee shape-shifters who are both) are simply washing the blood of their hands. everyone will “take a moment” to “put this in perspective” and before you know it, somebody somewhere will do the final political accounting mass and decide if this is “good news” or “bad news” (just as they will decide if the shooter is “mentally unstable” or “sane”).
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
2:13 pm
Debbiedoright is funny. She talks about hate and then says someone who disagrees with her deserves to be in a pit- presumably hellfire- and have leftists poking him with pitchforks
It’s also REALLY funny when “conservatives” can’t read…… these same conservatives, who spout christianity, religious dogma, and want a theological government; but in the same breath talk about hating someone forever. I wonder, WWJD? How “christian” can someone be when they speak out the side of their necks about christian “love” then out of their mouths nothing but hate spills out? Hmmmmmmmmm…………….
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
2:15 pm
josef; sorry, DDR, but you know I do think you’re to the right of me!
GO FALCONS !!
January 10th, 2011
2:20 pm
Off Topic:
Watch the roof on the GA Dome. All this snow and ice may very well collapse our tent roof right before the playoffs.
jewcowboy
January 10th, 2011
2:22 pm
ultra right wing @ 2.06,
Awww…does someone need a hug? If you can’t offer even a semblance of civility I have only one thing to say to you. Let me quote from a probable hero of yours, “Go f*ck yourself.”
Chris Sanchez
January 10th, 2011
2:25 pm
This was a sad weekend for the nation and reminder at how low the political rhetoric has fallen.
GO FALCONS !!
January 10th, 2011
2:26 pm
I WOULD NOT BE SAFE INSIDE THE GEORGIA DOME FOR THE NEXT 24-72 HOURS.
Team practice ?
The press, technicians, and others ?
The Georgia Dome Sucks !!!
ultra right wing
January 10th, 2011
2:30 pm
jewcowboy,
Let me get this straight. You lecture me on civility and then in the next sentence you say for me to go f@ck myself. The irony of it all. Its just too darn funny.
ultra right wing
January 10th, 2011
2:34 pm
“conservatives, who spout christianity, religious dogma, and want a theological government;”- Debbiedoright.
Lets see Debbie. You state that conservatives want a religiously domatic society, a theological govt- a theocracy basically?
Just more hyperbole and obscenely stupid rhetoric from the leftwing hatemongers who regurgitate mindless slogans.
Debbie, please provide to me the name of a conservative talk radio show host or a conservative politician who officially advocates a Christian theocracy. And please show proof of just one single credible conservative who advocates a Christian theocracy Just one please!
Crickets chirping………..
rightwingextreme
January 10th, 2011
2:36 pm
Jay, nice article and a nice attempt at civility, but you fall short on the condemnation of the response to this very, very tragic incident.
It was the left who jump started this media fire storm and politicized it….and it is a politicized fire storm. And this is easily documented.
It started with Sherriff Dupnik, Krugman, and Rep Clyburn. They are the first ones the throw the accusatory bombs that all of this was the result of Sarah Palin posting a website with targets of various democrat candidates….completely ignoring the fact that the left has utilized the same imagery before. It has been picked up by other media outlets and interviews by members of the left. And all of this without one shred of evidence to support this.
The mainstream media has completely ignored comments by his friends that note his philosophy was slanted and influenced by the left. The media is ignorning the idol skull at his house.
No Jay, it is the Left that started this fire storm because they saw this as an opportunity to further demonize the Tea Party(btw I have read a number of articles from you and Tucker attempting to do the same.)
So shame on the Left. But I guess they were following Obama’s commands when he said: If they bring a knife to the fight you bring a gun…….get in their faces……we’re gonna punish our enemies….the republicans can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back of the bus.
Jay, are these the underpinnings of the politics of hope and change?
jewcowboy
January 10th, 2011
2:37 pm
ultra right wing,
“You lecture me on civility and then in the next sentence you say for me to go f@ck myself.”
Yeah…see how that works. If you are uncivil to me, I follow suit. If you really wanted an answer to your posts, then you shouldn’t started off by insulting me. Otherwise I am going to respond in kind.
ultra right wing
January 10th, 2011
2:37 pm
Anyone who wants to take bets on whether or not Debbie can find one well known conservative politiican or radio talk show host who advocates a Christian theocracy in their official party line. Nope. Just more nonsensical ranting and loony raving from the left based on ZERO FACTUAL EVIDENCE.
midtownguy
January 10th, 2011
2:38 pm
When you attack people instead of ideas and policies it gives justification to the less mentally stable to act. For example: “George Bush organized 9/11 so the his friends could get rich” or “Doctors who perform abortions are murderers.” Such statements make the individuals sub-human and thus subject to justifiable attack.
We will probably never know what irrational thought provoked him, but the attack was definitely political. That the Federal Judge and Congressman were hit was not random. What is puzzling to me is that neither of them are extremist by any definition. She is, however, the only female jew in congress. Makes you pause.
I work in a federal building so this kind of attack especially disturbs me. I mean, what twisted mind justifies blowing up a building containing a day care center full of pre-school age children to get revenge on Janet Reno (Oklahoma City)?
ultra right wing
January 10th, 2011
2:40 pm
jewcowboy,
Sorry dude but you’re just copping out because you have no ammo. You got nothing- no examples of conservatives openly advocating violence or hate rhetoric- just more of your tired old sloganeering and hyperbole- just like Debbiedoright. Learn to think for yourself sport.
Albert
January 10th, 2011
2:49 pm
Jay,
I appreciate the lucidity. Peggy Noonann has been writing of late about the desperate need for some adults to step up and lead the national conversation. You did well today as did the WSJ editorial page. Thanks.
ultra right wing
January 10th, 2011
2:56 pm
I’m outta here. Just had to stop in for another day of whipping the liberals and exposing them for their ridiculous sloganeering and comments based on ZERO factual basis.
Case in point- Debbiedoright saying conservatives advocate a Christian theocracy. Her evidence-she has none of course.
Just stupid sloganeering without a shred of evidence that a single conservative has a Christian theocracy as a main goal in their platform. Just Debbie regurgitating the same mindless nonsense that conservatives want a Christian theocracy despite the fact that no one on here probably knows a single conservative who advocates a theocracy.
Then we have jewcowboy stating that conservatives advocate violence and hateful rhetoric. His evidence- he has none of course.
While I point out all the leftwing rioting and violence throughout Europe and the WTO riots in Seattle, the union thug bullying and intimidation, maxine waters and other Dem leaders with their “no justice no peace” threats of violence, the black panther voter intimidation jewcowboy responds with nothing.
Any more liberals out there with nonsensical rhetoric or sloganeering for me to destroy?
paleo-ultra right wing plutocrat
January 10th, 2011
3:00 pm
DawgDad, “Conservatives don’t shoot politicians, period.” “truthy” statements of this nature are the root of the problem. was Tom McVeigh “conservative”? How about Eric Rudolph? as if blowing up a daycare center or killing an off-duty police officer (Birmingham) or a tourist (Centennial Park) is somehow less criminal than “shooting a politician”. And by your definition, was Lee Harvey Oswald “conservative” or “liberal”? you people throw around labels (including claiming the title of ‘conservative’ as your own) like bandwagon football fans. does it matter if this guy was a liberal or a conservative?
Mick
January 10th, 2011
3:06 pm
You haven’t proved anything yourself except that you’ve got a swollen head full of delusion…
williebkind
January 10th, 2011
3:13 pm
“does it matter if this guy was a liberal or a conservative?”
Depends on who he targets!
cborgia
January 10th, 2011
3:14 pm
I do worry about the lack of history taught in our local schools. Nazis, dudes, weren’t ‘liberals’ or ’socialists’. They were the most extreme of the ultra-right wing twentieth century movements. Ultra-bright, you are the one without ‘ammo’ (ironic you chose that word, isn’t it?). How about that moron Sharon Angle talking about ’second amendment solutions’ during a Senate campaign? This garbage was all over the the right wing blogs for months. How about Tea Party nut job Allen West making a speech in Jupiter, Florida in which he urged other Tea Party nutjobs to make his opponent in a congressional election ‘afraid to leave his house’. Leaving aside Palin’s targets and Griffth inviting his supporters to test fire M16s with him as a campaign stunt, that idiot Carly Fiorina proposed that people on the terrorist watch list should be able to buy guns (but not board an airliner). Michelle Bachman urged her backers to be ‘armed and dangerous.’ How about the nut job Tea Party demonstration in Almagorda, N.M. where the demonstrators were all armed, and the Tea Party people who took guns to campaign events during elections? Heard enough of your tired old lies. If you consider yourself a Christian, you might reflect on the commandment against bearing false witness. The lies and propaganda pretty clearly played a role in getting innocent people killed. It’s easy to see why those who help spread it are reluctant to look in the mirror and face the facts.
Lil' Barry Bailout
January 10th, 2011
3:20 pm
More from the hater left:
———–
Clinton says Arizona shooter was “extremist”
(Reuters) – Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called the shooter who attacked Arizona congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords an “extremist,” and said people worldwide should reject radical ideologies.
“We have extremists in my country. A wonderful, incredibly brave young woman Congress member, Congresswoman Giffords, was just shot by an extremist in our country,” she added.
———————
No word from Clinton on what sort of extreme political beliefs the shooter has. The facts are less important than the political hay to be made.
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
3:22 pm
paleo-plutocrat,
Your examples fail to point out one thing. In all of these cases of nuts(McVeigh, Eric Rudolph) that can be classified as right wing nuts these are all individuals. There’s no organized, collective movement of conservatives that are out there rioting or committing acts of organized violence. Just individual kooks of which there will always be kooks- John Hinckley, etc.
When you look at left wing violence its always as part of an organized group- from terrorist groups like the weather underground to union bullys and intimidation to the black panthers to rioting mobs like at the WTO or the mobs and rioters in Europe.
The distinction is that the difference is you can point out some lone wolf right wing nuts but we can point out entire movements where leftists think its okay for them to resort to organized violence. That is the big difference.
williebkind
January 10th, 2011
3:27 pm
cborgia
January 10th, 2011
3:14 pm
Wow! It is not fun when the other party does as you do! I mean liberals have been violent since the 70’s. People have died. You still a member of a party that does that? They not only harm the country but countrymen too.
williebkind
January 10th, 2011
3:29 pm
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
3:22 pm
Yahoo! Someone gets it!
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
3:34 pm
cbeorgia,
NAZI party was formerly known as the German Workers Party. NAZI itself means national socialism party- hardly a free enterprise, conservative party that wants less federal govt as opposed to more federal govt interference. Perhaps you need some history lessons.
As for Sharon Angle and “second amendement solutions” this country has a proud history of 2nd amendment rights. Nothing wrong with that ma’am.
Griffin test firing M16s. And your point? So what? I know liberals who love to go to the shooting range. Did Griffin advocate shooting people? Um, no!
People showing up at tea party rallys with weapons. First of all it was a couple people out of thousands of tea party members at hundreds of different rallys. A handful of people expressing their 2nd amendment rights is quite a bit different from them expressing violence towards leftists. Don’t ya think? Don’t know why you have a problem with people wanting to express their 2nd amendment rights? Perfectly legal and constitutional. BTW did any of these people shoot anyone or point their weapons at anyone??? Uh, that would be no.
Calling Tea party members nuts? Oh but of course its nutty to want the federal govt to balance its books, get deficit spending under control, and have reasonable tax rates. I guess if that is what constitutes nutty in your twisted mind then these folks are just plain nutty for wanting a federal govt to quit running the country into bankruptcy. Quite nutty indeed!
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
3:37 pm
“The lies and propaganda pretty clearly played a role in getting innocent people killed”- cborgia
cborgia,
Please show me one person who was killed as a result of the tea party movement. And as Jay Bookman pointed out please don’t make that gigantic leap that the tea party is responsible for a mentally ill man going on a rampage and killing people. Please tell me that you are more intelligent than that.
paleo-ultra right wing plutocrat
January 10th, 2011
3:38 pm
Destroying liberal lies…yada, yada, yada. 1- did you read my screed? there are no “conservatives” (as defined by the media). there are no “loners” and there are no “extremists”. these labels are used to set a political line and nothing more. and as such, for the record, and there are no “liberal lies” for you to claim to “destroy” with your “missiles of truth” (paging Dr. Freud). there are people. 2 – it is foolish and without merit for you to spout baseless nonsense about the difference between “conservative” criminals and “liberal” criminals. Tim McVeigh did not act alone. he was connected to a violent, para-military sub-culture of Americans who believe the “Turner Diaries” to be a prophecy. ditto the Hectares. not exactly a “one wolf” but rather a pack of wolves (and how about Sharron Angle and her ilk?). 3 – dial down the “we” stuff. it stinks of moral “elitism” when used immediately after you disparagingly refer to “liberals”.
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
3:40 pm
ultra light right wing: Debbie, please provide to me the name of a conservative talk radio show host or a conservative politician who officially advocates a Christian theocracy. And please show proof of just one single credible conservative who advocates a Christian theocracy Just one please!
Case in point- Debbiedoright saying conservatives advocate a Christian theocracy. Her evidence-she has none of course.
Just stupid sloganeering without a shred of evidence that a single conservative has a Christian theocracy as a main goal in their platform. Just Debbie regurgitating the same mindless nonsense that conservatives want a Christian theocracy despite the fact that no one on here probably knows a single conservative who advocates a theocracy.
Sorry to disappoint ya ultra light man, but here’s one…………….
PAT ROBERTSON. Can I get an Amen?
paleo-ultra right wing plutocrat
January 10th, 2011
3:40 pm
excuse me, I meant “leftists” no “liberals” but hey, words don’t matter, right?
USMC dawg
January 10th, 2011
3:42 pm
A noose around Sarah Palin’s neck:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/29/palin.noose/
cborgia
January 10th, 2011
3:45 pm
Is this the place where they send he ignorant to post? Runt-of-the-litter Larry, the guy had sheafs of Tea Party ‘natural currency’ gold standard garbage right off the Paul presses. (I’m not blaming the Pauls; I never heard them espouse violent acts, but he was clearly obsessed with idiotic notions about ‘natural money’. But the real prize here is Mr. Missile of Truth (undoubtedly a SCUD, based on its accuracy). Ever heard of the Nazis, the spanish or the italian fascists, the dozens of muredering ultra right dictators in South America? Ever heard of Pinochet? Right here at home we have the wonderful American Nazi Party, the KKK, the Birchers, the Oath Keepers, American Patriots for Freedom Foundation, Central Texas Militia, Texas Well Regulated Militia, Northern Michigan Backyard Protection Militia, State of California Unorganized Militia, Northern California State Militia, American Armenian Militia, Freedom Force International; Indiana Sedentary Militia, Indiana Citizens Volunteer Militia, 3rd Brigade, Empire State Militia, Oregon Militia Corps, Kentucky State Militia – Ohio Valley Command. There are hundreds of right wing nutjob groups, some of whom have committed horrible murders. I have seen Nazis and the Klan shooting into a crowd. Are you a liar, willfully ignorant, or just dirt dumb?
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
3:49 pm
DebbiedoRight,
Pat Robertson advocates a Christian theocracy? Really?
Is this the same Pat Robertson who came out on 12/22/2010 and said that we should legalize pot and empty the prisons of people whose only crime was to use drugs? And you think this man wants to impose a Christian theocracy where we stone adulterresses to death like in Iran? You can’t possilby be that stupid! Pat Robertson is firmly on record as wanting a clear separation between church and state. The most obvious reason for this is because if we were to go to a theocracy by whose rules do we live- Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, church of Christ, Mormon. Religious leaders recognize this and hence want a clear separation of church.
Only simpletons like yourself refuse to recognize this obvious problem with a theocracy. But it sure helps you with your mindless sloganeering to say that religious leaders want this doesn’t it?
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
3:52 pm
paleo plutocrat,
And how many of these estimated 3,000 white separatists are out committing murders on a daily basis? How many terrorist bombings or acts have they committed since Oklahoma City? Or before Ok City? Learn to distinguish between an isolated kook who actually carrys out an act and those who have crazy beliefs but never act on them.
GO FALCONS !!
January 10th, 2011
3:56 pm
Instead of broadcasting who’s closed tomorrow, perhaps they might tell us who’s gonna be open…
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
4:00 pm
Destroy – don’t shoot the messenger!! You know what I’m saying is true!!! Just because Pat is a right leaning nut job, doesn’t make my statement false. Truth hurts huh?
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:00 pm
cborgia,
Do you really want to get into a hard numbers count of the number of terrorist acts, riots, property damage, and lives killed between native right wing groups and native left wing groups? It aint even close.
Pinochet? You’re right. He killed approximately 3,000 people in Argentina’s “dirty war”. Mao in China- killed 30-50 million. Lets see- various South American right wing dictators- killed or disappeared thousands of people- probably a few thousand each. Pol Pot killed approximately 3 million Cambodians. Stalin- killed 30 million of his people. Add it up smart guy. Right wing dictators certainly killled some people but their brutality and numbers of victims pale in comparison to the tens of millions of people killed by leftist dictators like Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. Go learn some history sir.
A+A
January 10th, 2011
4:01 pm
Jared Loughner is a registered Republican in the state of Arizona. That’s all I need to know. The years of lies and distortions emanating from the right wing have finally come home to roost. Sling that much hate onto the airwaves and someone is bound to take it seriously. Apparently Loughner did. Thanks so much, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin and the rest. Along with the other sad deaths and injuries, you have the blood of an 9 year old on your hands. Who was born on September 11th.
You can call me part of the ‘hater left’ if you like. I couldn’t possibly think less of your opinion. But I defy you to come up with comments that exhibit the same degree of baseless venom from the left. And Europe most decidedly does not count (wow. lame).
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that Eric Rudolph was conservative, after all he got his kicks blowing up abortion clinics. Tim McVeigh was an anti-government ‘patriot’. Blew up a building in Oklahoma. Do you remember the fireman running from those ruins, holding the bloody, dead body of the little girl? The result of an act by a radical conservative. And these men seem do to have been involved with organized groups-there is information from the Department of Homeland Security that Loughner may have ties to a white supremacist group called the American Renaissance. Fox news reported this. Tim McVeigh was deeply influenced by the Christian Identity group, another white supremacy group. I doubt very much that these individuals were told what to do. But they influenced them, just as right wing pundits and radio personalities seem to have influenced Jared Loughner.
Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:02 pm
Debbiedoright,
Please provide me something from Pat Robertson’s website or from his platform where he advocates a theocracy. Can’t do it can ya. All you got is your simpleton nonsensical sloganeering. You simply don’t know what the hell you’re talking about when ya get right down to it.
A+A
January 10th, 2011
4:05 pm
Also, you go, cborgia!
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:06 pm
A+A,
Aren’t you forgetting all the weather underground bombings of the 60s and 70s- policeman and other innocentts killed. Patty Hearst and the SLA? Why the selective remembrances of terrorist acts ma’am?
And now you equate a mentally ill man with Sarah Pallin and conservatives? He’s mentally ill you idiot. What is it about mentally ill that you seem incapable of understanding???
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
4:08 pm
And how many of these estimated 3,000 white separatists are out committing murders on a daily basis? How many terrorist bombings or acts have they committed since Oklahoma City? Or before Ok City? Learn to distinguish between an isolated kook who actually carrys out an act and those who have crazy beliefs but never act on them.
He will when you will. Or do your inflammatory incorrect comments count?
BTW here’s a quote from ya boy, Pat: “Lord, give us righteous judges who will not try to legislate and dominate this society. Take control, Lord! We ask for additional vacancies on the court.” –Pat Robertson
“”There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that sanctifies the separation of church and state.” – Pat Robertson
“When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?’ the media challenged me. `You’re not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo-Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?’ My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.’” – Pat Robertson
What were You saying again destroy?
Woe is US
January 10th, 2011
4:08 pm
The right has blood on its hands and denials won’t wash it off. No matter how many times they run it through the spin cycle. Jesus will sort it out.
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:10 pm
I also remember all those Democratic Maxine Waters supporters with their “no justice no peace” threats. Oh, wait a minute. They weren’t threats. They actually burned LA to the ground in south central and killed a couple hundred people.
Please help me and point out to me where a conservative said “no justice no peace” and openly exhorted conservatives to riot and burn a city to the ground and create mayhem. Please show me where this happened. I’m waiting……………
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:11 pm
Woe is US,
Attributing a mentally ill man’s actions to the conservatives? You’re dumber than a sack of rocks ma’am.
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
4:14 pm
Right wing dictators certainly killled some people but their brutality and numbers of victims pale in comparison to the tens of millions of people killed by leftist dictators like Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. Go learn some history sir.
Ooops I’ve just discovered that I’ve been trying to reason with a certified idiot!! Please, “destroy” could you please tell everyone on the board what makes Stalin, Pol Pot, etc “leftist”? Stalin was a communist/dictator as was Pol Pot and Mao!! Dude if ANYONE on this board need to learn history, it’s YOu.!!!
God i HATE it when school is out and all the kids get on this blog!! Isn’t your mother calling yo? Go watch Barney or something — I can’t wait until school is back in, jeesh!!
josef nix
January 10th, 2011
4:15 pm
jewcowboy
Not exactly sure how that relates, but no problem with Sky Fairy with upper case, though I would myself write it Sk- Fa-ry, And seriously, said with the proper respect, it comes pretty close to my own interpretation, being as I am a fairy myself and believing as I do we are made in the image of the Cr-ator…plus there seems to be within all the searches for origin and meaning a heavenward (sky) orientation…
cborgia
January 10th, 2011
4:16 pm
Mr. SCUD Missile of Truth:
As you repeated, I said: The lies and propaganda pretty clearly played a role in getting innocent people killed”
I also took issue with a whole lot of Tea Party’s intimidation tactics, but the lies and propaganda that have gotten innocent people killed didn’t just come from them. In fact, I think Tea Party people are mostly fools who are manipulated by more powerful people who despise them. If you have your head so far in the sand you don’t know that this wasn’t even the first assassination inspired by this garbage, you are beyond help. I suppose you think Fox News played no role in the murder of George Tiller?
I suppose you think that the People’s Republic of China and other People’s Democratic Republics are the worlds light of freedom, eh? Then why are you pretending that the Nazis were socialists, when in fact the American right was in love with them in the 30s? You aren’t very bright, are you? Or maybe you’re a twelve year old misfit. Here’s clue, junior: the rest of us know a whole lot more about this than you do, and at this point you just sound very stupid. Go home to mom.
There is everything wrong with Sharon Angle proposing ’second amendment solutions’ to losing an election. This is a thinly veiled call for violent action. I would hope you aren’t that dumb. You really think it’s appropriate to interact with your supporters by firing an M-16 on rock-n-roll? I can see it now: what’s your position on the economy? Loud Burst of gunfire. How will we control the defict? Loud gunfire. About as much information content as your posts.
Yeah, I have a problem as a gun owner when idiots show up armed at political rallies. They aren’te expressing their second amendment rights; I do that when I go into the woods with a loaded rifle. They are attacking the republic and intimidating my elected representatives, fool, and I won’t stand for it. It’s a short step from menacing people with guns to having some nutjob shoot people. It just happened.
If you were REALLY interested in balancing the budget and reducing the debt, as I am, you idiots wouldn’t have voted for W twice and supported the Iraq invasion, would you? Unlike the far left, I am not a bit politically correct and I don’t mind calling a liar a liar, a nut job a nut job, or a fool a fool. But I am unfair. You were clearly too young to vote.
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
4:16 pm
No justice no peace means just that. It’s called Civil Disobedience. Shooting someone is called murder. If you were old enough to shave, you’d know the difference.
cborgia
January 10th, 2011
4:17 pm
HAHAHAH. Hilter killed ’some people.’ Who knew?
This child needs foster care.
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:19 pm
DebbiedoRight,
So Pat would want Christians and jews in his govt? So what? Still doesn’t mean a theocracy. The govt would still be a constitutional republic and in 4 years he would be up for re-election. He would have the freedom to choose who he wants in his govt just like Bush, Obama, etc. I think you have a problem with understanding things. As for him wanting righteous judges who are Christian so what? There are a lot of people liberal and conservative who want judges to hold the same values and beliefs as this mainly judeo- Christian nation. Nothing wrong with that. Liberals want judges who impose liberal values. That’s their prerogative if they can get it passed. So what?
Furthermore are you just dumb? Pat Robertson got something like 10% max of the conservative vote- that would be something like 5% of the overall vote. Why are you worried about 5% of the electorate outvoting 95%? Its just plain dumb.
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
4:22 pm
Oh, wait a minute. They weren’t threats. They actually burned LA to the ground in south central and killed a couple hundred people.
The LA riots after the Rodney King verdict, is that what you’re talking about? You’re trying to equate an all white jury letting despotic cops off for the brutally unjust beating of a black man and the brutal denigration of an entire community by police as some sort of quid-pro example? ARE YOu INSANE??
Also, hundreds of people were hurt NOT killed. Dude, reading is fundamental — try doing it sometimes.
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:22 pm
DebbieDoRight,
Civil disobedience? Oh, I see. So when Dem voters kill a couple hundred people and burn a city to the ground costing a couple billion in property damage its just civil disobedience? Oh, otay. i reckon that makes it all okay then.
cborgia,
Hitler killed millions as we all obviously know. I was referring to the scope of brutality of South American dictators which you brought up relative to leftist dictators the world over. Don’t be an idiot ma’am.
Woe is US
January 10th, 2011
4:23 pm
Sheriff Dupnik sees the reality on the ground. There are those that would have us believe the the lies they try to spin into the truth, and call it reality. I stand with the good Sheriff.
Darwin
January 10th, 2011
4:24 pm
I’ve never understood why people today so obediently follow political marketing created from the 1950s. Think of it. I’m against communisim – so elect me because only I can negotiate with communists (only Nixon could to to China). I’m against government – so elect me because only I can restrict government growth and act like government is out to get you (Reagan and ALL Republicans today). And this rhetoric only gets worse. We should all fear the future as we crave our benefits while disparaging our democracy.
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:25 pm
You’re right. Only 53 people were killed in the LA riots and a mere 2,000 injured by your urban thug Democratic voters.
Billybob
January 10th, 2011
4:31 pm
There have been a lot of hateful and derogatory things said on this blog today, but none of it has driven me to go out and kill someone. The Far Left Liberal False Template being oozed all over the media that conservatives instigated this tragedy has been disproven right here, right now, by me. It’s time for the left to go ahead and move on to the next false template so I can disprove it as well. The division being discussed the last couple of days is emanating from the left, who then are trying to project their tactic onto conservatives in order to blame them for this tragedy. Dissecting liberals is fun and getting easier by the day.
Woe is US
January 10th, 2011
4:32 pm
Sheriff Dupnik knows how many times the congresswoman was threatened by individuals on the right. Are you deniers saying all those threats were made by the suspect? This was NOT a random act of violence by a deranged man. The congresswoman herself had warned about the consequences of violent rhetoric.
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:33 pm
cborgia,
I just read that you complained of Tea Party intimidation tactics. Seriously? A bunch of middle aged, mostly white suburbanites who are complaining about deficit spending and the community organizer running us into bankrupcy? And you think these ordinary folks- mostly old, are intimidating? Have you completely lost your mind. You’re as delusional as Debbie.
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:34 pm
Woe is US,
Are you just stupid? You think Dem politicians are the only ones who receive death threats? You don’t think Bush, Limbaugh, and scores of other conservatives receive death threats? Good grief.
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
4:36 pm
There are a lot of people liberal and conservative who want judges to hold the same values and beliefs as this mainly judeo- Christian nation. Nothing wrong with that. Liberals want judges who impose liberal values. That’s their prerogative if they can get it passed. So what?
This is my last post to you – you are obviously just some bored little kid who’s grounded and can’t play with his Wii that he got for Christmas. But long story short, you’ve just contradicted yourself……TWICE.
Read the posts that you put up earlier, like this one at 4:02 p.m. – “Debbiedoright, Please provide me something from Pat Robertson’s website or from his platform where he advocates a theocracy. Can’t do it can ya. All you got is your simpleton nonsensical sloganeering. You simply don’t know what the hell you’re talking about when ya get right down to it.
destroy: Furthermore are you just dumb? Pat Robertson got something like 10% max of the conservative vote- that would be something like 5% of the overall vote. Why are you worried about 5% of the electorate outvoting 95%? Its just plain dumb.
I was asked to “NAME ONE CONSERVATIVE THAT ADVOCATED A THEOCRACY” – so I did. Now that I’ve named one, you bring up the fact that he didn’t receive a lot of votes. Who CARES? That wasn’t the point!!
This is just too easy – it’s like shooting fish in a bucket – when you grow up destroy, (if you ever do); come back and THEN try to challenge me; until then, it’s just not fair for me to be debating with someone who is so lacking in common sense.
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
4:37 pm
P.S. Limbaugh is not a politician. Jeesh — how SAD is our public school system?
yuzeyurbrain
January 10th, 2011
4:37 pm
We hover next to the abyss.
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:38 pm
There are 2 types of mentally ill people,
The first type is the type that goes out and shoots people like this crazy guy did.
The second type of mentally ill people are those that equate a mentally ill man going bonkers with a rival political party or philosophy- in other words trying to make it political to deflect attention from the damage their community organizer has done to the country. Now those are truly some SICK FREAKING PEOPLE.
Steven
January 10th, 2011
4:38 pm
Good article Jay. Let’s hope the racist and hateful editorials from Cynthia Tucker are no longer in the AJC.
cborgia
January 10th, 2011
4:39 pm
Scuddly, somebody’s dumb, but not Debbie (any relation to Dudley?) Pat wanted a whole lot more than just Christians and Jews in his government. He was heavily into Dominion theology and talked about theocracy. I’ve heard more than I like to remember of our religious right, including Congressmen and Senators, blathering on about this being a ‘Christian Nation’ or pretending than Jefferson was a red-hot born again (see Newtie boy’s propaganda books and movies). We are worried about idiots like you, and you make up about 30% of the country by my count. BTW, stop pretending you are a conservative. People like the Buckleys were conservatives.
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:40 pm
Debbiedoright,
Pat Robertson advocates a Christian inflluence in our country’s govt. He does not advocate going from a constitutional republic to a full blown Christian theocracy. You are just plain dumb if you believe that.
md
January 10th, 2011
4:42 pm
“Jared Loughner is a registered Republican in the state of Arizona.”
I’ve seen “evidence” that he is registered with both parties…………leads me to believe something is fishy……….
Sad to see some here take the hook…line….and sinker if it benefits their “side”.
Research is your friend…………it would be wise to wait until the facts are all out before claiming “victory”…………otherwise, one may look awful foolish.
Woe is US
January 10th, 2011
4:43 pm
No matter how hard you wash, missle, the damned spot will remain.
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:45 pm
cborgia and debbie,
The whole point is that most conservatives are not that truly religious- they are more fiscal conservatives and free enterprise and freedom loving conservatives. We don’t want a theocracy any more than the most liberal of politiicans. The idea that a theocracy could ever take hold here is ludicrous so why do you guys even concern yourselves with such nonsense? Where do you get this crazy idea that with all the filth we see in our everyday lives from porn shops everywhere to porn and violence all over our tv that hard core Christian rightists have any influence? If they did we wouldn’t have strip clubs everywhere, abortion wouldn’t be legal, etc. Its just ludicrous. Hell Rush Limbaugh would oppose a theocracy.
DebbieDoRight
January 10th, 2011
4:47 pm
Pat Robertson advocates a Christian inflluence in our country’s govt.
When you get through playing with your tinker toys, look up the meaning of the word “Theocracy”.
All of us need to PRAY for the state of the Georgia Public school system. This is sooooo sad….
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:51 pm
DebbieDoRight,
Wasn’t educated in Georgia public schools. I think its pretty obvious I’m a lot smarter than you. Also the demise of the public education system. Hmmm. Most of the decaying public school system such as that joke of a school system in Clayton County are run by you know who- Democrats. Please don’t go there. The Dems and the big teachers unions have ruined public education in this country. Why heck. Look at you!
USMC dawg
January 10th, 2011
4:53 pm
Shooter described as Left-wing Pothead by classmates:
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
4:53 pm
Decay and horrible school systems- democratic areas
Good school systems- mainly Republican suburban areas. Nuff said
Destroying liberal lies with missiles of truth
January 10th, 2011
5:01 pm
That’s too funny. I just read that his classmates described him as a Marxist pot head. This is too dang funny. Just when the left wingers on here were getting all excited about trying to link a mentally ill man’s rampage with conservatives. This is just too funny. Turns out the man is a left wing nut.
I’m out. Looks like the left wing kooks have been debunked yet again. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
A+A
January 10th, 2011
5:05 pm
-First of all, President Obama has received 400% more threats than George Bush.
-Second, those old fat white people at tea party rallies were armed with guns. So, yeah, not Woodstock.
-I don’t know who bullyboy is but he needs meds. Since he may be suffering from a God complex.
-We don’t know that Jared Loughner is mentally ill. Has he been treated for mental illness? We do know that he seems to be easily influenced by right wing rhetoric. Since he tried to kill a bunch of Democrats. Did I mention that the gunman is a registered Republican? I thought I had but it’s worth repeating.
-As far as the SLA, that’s reaching pretty far back for damnation. During the same period the LA and Detroit residents started riots that stemmed from the assassination of Martin Luther King. Brought to you by another radical right winger, James Earl Ray. Ray was a supporter of George Wallace’s segregation platform and was interested in emigrating to Rhodesia which was then run by a white supremacist, Ian Smith. Ray died in prison of hep c, by the way.