Aftermath of Tucson shooting as dismaying as actual event
Judging from comments well into Sunday, people still feel a need to vent regarding the tragic shooting Saturday in Tucson. However, before we start down this treacherous road again, let me at least try to put things into context.
First, the attack was perpetrated by a young man who by all available evidence is mentally ill. Anyone who tries to attribute a political agenda of any sort to a soul like that is himself trying to advance a political agenda. It is wrong and disrepectful to the victims of this tragedy to try to distort it for political gain. Please, don’t go there.
However, if the incident itself was not political, there’s no question that the reaction to it became intensely political. What could have and should have been an opportunity to unite as Americans was instead quickly seized as an opportunity to divide ourselves further, to heighten rather than dampen the animosity and vitriol. The reaction told us a lot more about ourselves as a country than did the initial incident, and it was not reassuring.
We like to blame our leaders for a lot of our own shortcomings these days. Congress, for example, has never been held in lower esteem. But the truth is that our elected leaders are doing what we tell them to do. The pettiness and rhetoric in Washington reflect our own selfishness and shortsightedness here at home, and if we don’t like what they mirror back at us, well, blaming the mirror is never the answer.
That said, our elected leadership for the most part has acted appropriately and cautiously in response to Saturday’s attack, perhaps because the violence struck one of their own. Whatever the reason, the poison that infected our discussion over the weekend bubbled up from below, from among us, rather being inspired from above. The ugliness and rancor was our doing, not theirs. We — speaking in general terms — were handed a chance to leap at each others’ throats again, and too many of us eagerly jumped at it.
A lot has been made about the misuse of violent metaphors, such as crosshairs on websites and turns of phrases in speeches. For the most part, that’s nonsense. Metaphors and turns of phrases do not drive violence, and those who try to claim otherwise are again trying to smear their political opponents with innocent blood. They are contributing to the problem they claim to be identifying.
That said, “Second Amendment remedies” is not a metaphor; it is a direct legitimization of violence. American political thought is infected with the idea that violence is a legitimate political tool that can and should be employed at some unspecified point, when some unspecified political actor takes some unspecified political action that crosses some unspecified line. The decision of when such a line is crossed is typically left to the would-be patriot, but always with the suggestion that the line is getting closer, the day is drawing nearer, the threat is growing larger.
That mindset is fed by descriptions of our elected leadership as tyrants or as illegitimate usurpers out to destroy America. After all, once their tyrannical and destructive character is established, violence as a means of addressing the threat to liberty becomes justified. “Sic semper tyrannis,” as John Wilkes Booth so infamously proclaimed.
Again, there is no evidence that Jared Loughner was responding in any way to that ideology rather than to the voices echoing in his own head. But it is foolishness to pretend that others out there cannot be seduced by the false romanticism and heroism inherent in the idea of political violence.
Finally, we as a people need to acknowledge and adjust our thinking to the changing mediascape. We humans have always been afflicted with demagogues, as the ancient roots of that word demonstrate. But the easy accessibility of modern media has done more than give would-be demagogues a louder voice. There is now money to be made and a following to be gained by stripping us of our larger loyalties to the country and instead dividing us into cliques and cults defined by our animosity to each other.
Free and open debate is the lifeblood of democracy, and it is not always a genteel process. But we set the boundaries of appropriate rhetoric when we decide where to place our loyalty and attention. And we will pay the consequences of choosing wrongly.
– Jay Bookman
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627 comments Add your comment
Woe is US
January 10th, 2011
9:39 am
Joe: ” Paul Krugman, MessNBC, CNN, and Sheriff Dupnik should be ashamed of themselves.”
For stating the obvious?
jewcowboy
January 10th, 2011
9:41 am
Ok…going outside to dig out a “pee pit” in the snow for the wiener dogs. 3″ legs in 6″ of snow makes for some very chilly wieners…
Fred
January 10th, 2011
9:41 am
Keep up the good fight!
January 10th, 2011
9:24 am
In one year, guns murdered……………………………
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wow really? Guns are murdering now? I didn’t know they had life lol. This opens up a whole new avenue in the abortion (gun control) “debate.’ Does “life” for a gun start when it’s purchased, or would the Republicans argue that the “life” of a gun begins when the metal ore used for the gun is mined? But then how do we know which ore will be used to make an inanimate object like a car instead of a living breathing gun? When is the EXACT moment of conception so we know when we can morally “abort” the gun?
USinUK
January 10th, 2011
9:42 am
md – “And if one thinks we can ban guns effectively, ask yourself how easy it is to get drugs. I had my heyday, and it wasn’t hard at all”
which is why I’m a proponent of the British system of gun control. if you want to own a gun, you have to have between 3 and 5 references regarding your mental health, you’re met and interviewed by a police officer, you have to show where you’ll lock them away (and it has to be so secure you can’t rip the thing off the wall). you have to register every single firearm you own – as well as bullets.
and, lastly, no firearm can be small enough to be concealed.
AmVet
January 10th, 2011
9:42 am
Good snowy morning, Bookmaniacs!
What a miracle that the Congresswoman survived. I hope she can resume somewhat of a normal life. As for those shot down in cold blood, my thoughts go out to their grieving families and friends.
May they one day recover form this senseless tragedy.
And yet another great article Jay.
Trying to be the voice of reason in this sometimes animus-filled insane asylum of a blog/world is encouraging.
Even though many here, from all persuasions, were calm and rational and compassionate, sadly much of what we all read yesterday was disgusting. Generally by the usual disgusting suspects.
And to your later point JB, by quoting the worst of these louts with his hate-filled quotes, it helps keep this forum from becoming the cesspool that this and other bloggers often turn CT’s into.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxClQ_pInzc
md
January 10th, 2011
9:42 am
“The blame, if there is any, goes to the family members,people and law enforcement who did not call attention to his imbalance; they stood by and did nothing… until it is too late.”
On a serious subject, I had to giggle a bit at that………..don’t know about others, but I got quite a few family members that just ain’t “right”…….but they are more than likely harmless. Multiply my family by xxxx, and that would overload the system.
TaxPayer
January 10th, 2011
9:44 am
and, lastly, no firearm can be small enough to be concealed.
Nothing smaller than a 44 automag. I bet Harry Callahan would agree with that one.
Michael H. Smith
January 10th, 2011
9:44 am
Sheriff Dupnik is definitely a guy I would vote against if given the opportunity. You don’t put out a fire by throwing gasoline on the flames.
Fred
January 10th, 2011
9:44 am
JCB @ 9:41:
Jump downstairs to the snow thread and read my 8:07. I see YOU didn’t have the same dilema as i did……………….
USinUK
January 10th, 2011
9:44 am
md – 9:42 – sadly, you can’t treat someone who doesn’t want to be treated. the days of having someone involuntarily committed are long past. I haven’t read about the parents, so i don’ know if they stood around and did nothing –
have you seen anything on the subject?
Victor Midtown
January 10th, 2011
9:45 am
I blame the anonymity of the internet. People from all sides of the national debate can freely attack and demonise those with whom they disagree. The meanest, most hateful abuse is gleefully doled out by people who would never say those things if they had to attach their name to it. Most of these blogs degenerate into name-calling. The Bush haters forget how bad it was before the Obama-phobes grabbed the keyboard.
getalife
January 10th, 2011
9:46 am
I remember when mccain corrected the old lady calling Obama names in the last election and that was it for gop leadership.
Now, they won the house so they have to speak out.
It was all fun and games until one of them gets shot in the head and a nine year old little girl was murd ered.
Now, they will stand up to their cons.
md
January 10th, 2011
9:47 am
“What’s that supposed to mean? That if congress doesn’t hold it’s finger to the wind before every vote then “second ammendment ” solutions are justified? And let’s not forget that people were for healthcare reform before the onslaught of invective from the right wing media. After the campaign of lies against the bill, the demogogues then held up the polls as proof the American people didn’t want it.”
For starters, the comment was in direct relation to a particular quote…..read it. And please, don’t go attributing your assumptions to me.
And yes, folks were in favor of hc reform, including myself……but onesided legislation is never the answer……..just causes more problems…….compromise was called for and not achieved.
AmVet
January 10th, 2011
9:47 am
3″ legs in 6″ of snow makes for some very chilly wieners…
And some chilly wiener wieners!
I have a couple of friends who are also big time wiener dog lovers. And it is hard not to love those little boogers…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpF2tZsj6lM
@@
January 10th, 2011
9:47 am
A scolding from jay?
But the truth is that our elected leaders are doing what we tell them to do.
No they’re not. It’s in their NOT doing that the problem lies. The left’s base is put out as is the conservative base. The moderate base wants change for change sake but then doesn’t like it when delivered. The polarization comes when the policies are put into place.
The politicians feel put out by the Tea Party.
Well BOO HOO!!!!!
Apologies seem to be the order of the day here. Excuse me if I have none to offer.
The reports coming out about Congresswoman Gifford are optimistic. One thing I know from experience is that she will have no recollection of the incident other than what she’s told.
Keep up the good fight!
January 10th, 2011
9:47 am
Fred… you may not like the facts. But that is a troubling statistic and a fact. You want more real information, then try http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation. Then click on the current recommendations, read the .pdf and lets get some common sense legislation.
TaxPayer
January 10th, 2011
9:48 am
The parents of this kid could have wanted to help with his mental illness but couldn’t because he could no longer be covered on their insurance policy and the cost of treatment without insurance coverage is just too prohibitive.
Doggone/GA
January 10th, 2011
9:48 am
“I haven’t read about the parents, so i don’ know if they stood around and did nothing”
The issue of willful disblief is operative here. As it is in MOST families when a family member does something violent. Or even among friends and acquaitances. Before he did this, I’d venture to guess that most people who knew him would say he was a bit odd, if you asked about him. But how many would actually say they thought he was homicidal?
Logic 05
January 10th, 2011
9:48 am
A selection remarks by Obama:
“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
“Don’t you think we’re not keeping score, brother?”
“Bring it on”
“Get ready for hand-to-hand combat with your fellow Americans”
“I want all Americans to get in each others’ faces!”
“You bring a knife to a fight pal, we’ll bring a gun”
“Republicans are our enemies”
“Hit back twice as hard.”
“We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick. “
Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
“It’s time to fight for it.”
Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
“I’m itching for a fight.”
“They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back”
Get Real
January 10th, 2011
9:49 am
Woe is US
Time for you to turn off your computer as well!! The crap you and Barry are writing filled Jay’s blog over the weekend…thus his column today. Both of you just give it a friggin rest…
Mick
January 10th, 2011
9:49 am
usinuk@9:42
All that makes some for good common sense but it will never happen here because that’s not the effin american way…
Doggone/GA
January 10th, 2011
9:50 am
“Both of you just give it a friggin rest…”
When you pray for the impossible…don’t be surprised if you don’t get it.
josef nix
January 10th, 2011
9:50 am
Victor
@ 9:45
I would agree with that.
Lil' Barry Bailout
January 10th, 2011
9:51 am
From the first thread on the topic of the shooting yesterday:
bjork
2:50 pm
Looks like Palin and Sharron Angle got their wish for 2nd Amendment remedies. They are equally guilty.
bjork
2:55 pm
Fox News, Sarah P, and the Tea-People- their blood is on your hands…
Aquagirl
2:57 pm
Only a jackass would put people in the crosshairs for political reasons.
I don’t think Palin herself is to blame, but crap like that doesn’t help America.
Dan
3:24 pm
The commentators here saying “don’t point fingers” are ridiculous. This isn’t a random act of street violence, this is AN ASSASSINATION of a Democratic congresswoman.
willie lynch
3:25 pm
It seems the right wing once again has resorted to violence.
jewcowboy
3:30 pm
Dan,
I have to agree with you. Unless this act was carried out by someone known to the victim(s) which doesn’t seem to be the case, then this is an assassination and inherently political.
Fred
3:31 pm
Is anyone surprised by this sad event after the rhetoric from the likes of Palin, “Don’t retreat reload.”
Rachel
3:47 pm
willie lynch Im with U ..you are so right!!!
larry
3:48 pm
i hope this gives those type of people like Palin, pause, because words eventually become deeds. It was just a matter of time.
Just saying..
3:50 pm
Over/Under in minutes for Rush to deny he incited anybody to do anything?
AmVet
3:51 pm
Lacking any details it is impossible to yet know, but I have a strong and sickening sense that this is gonna turn out to be exactly what it looks like…
Matti
3:56 pm
They’re not going to clean house. They intentionally invited this stuff in and made it feel at home.
Adam
4:01 pm
All this to me shows a disconnect between reality and what the general public buys the from the right wing political rhetoric. So much so, that it leads to VIOLENCE.
larry
4:18 pm
Probably just another God-fearing anti-immigrant bagger…
———————
Wow, this is more work than I thought…BTW, my first comment on the blame game was 6;20-ish.
stands for decibels
January 10th, 2011
9:51 am
Well, I don’t want to dump any petrol on the fire, but I think our jcb is correct in his insistence that this was, at the end of the day, a political murder. It may be crazy, it may not be directly attributable to any specific person’s rhetoric, but it certainly was political in nature, as were the Knoxville UU murders, and the murder of George Tiller.
Del
January 10th, 2011
9:51 am
Jay, pretty good commentary. Tragic events such as the one in Arizona have happened before and unfortunately will again. It’s the price we pay for living in a free and open society. Living freely in America, however, is something few of us would want to give up.
BADA BING
January 10th, 2011
9:51 am
Seeing the hatred and venom coming from both sides of the political spectrum makes me glad I am an Independent.
Matti
January 10th, 2011
9:51 am
jewcowboy @ 9:41,
getalife
January 10th, 2011
9:52 am
You can argue that cons venting on blogs might have saved them from going off in public.
Fred
January 10th, 2011
9:52 am
md
January 10th, 2011
9:47 am
And yes, folks were in favor of hc reform, including myself……but onesided legislation is never the answer……..just causes more problems…….compromise was called for and not achieved.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just damn, I may as well go and play COD black Ops for a while. The stuff like that you are posting could come from MY keyboard.
Funny how it seems so simple to US, but most others can’t seem to grasp it. Are we the lone voices of reason in the storm of insanity or is just you and me that are the crazy ones?
md
January 10th, 2011
9:52 am
usuk,
I think comparing the uk to the us in relation to gun control is a non starter. The uk has a geographical leg up on the situation. Much harder to smuggle in arms, vs the us with wide open borders………………..and no ship/plane needed……..
Woe is US
January 10th, 2011
9:52 am
md:”compromise was called for and not achieved”
And I call that BS.
Doggone/GA
January 10th, 2011
9:53 am
Del – “It’s the price we pay for living in a free and open society.”
I would amend this to say: “It’s the price we pay for living”
These sorts of things happen everywhere, in every society, and have happened for all time. No one has ever been able to come up with a way to stop them before they happen.
TaxPayer
January 10th, 2011
9:54 am
BTW, my first comment on the blame game was 6;20-ish.
How did you ever manage to bite your fingers for so long.
Southern Comfort
January 10th, 2011
9:54 am
md
Those in my family that you described at 9:42, we just call them “Can’t get right”.
@@
January 10th, 2011
9:54 am
Huh? I’ve got 25 doves huddled up on my front porch…9 under the eaves of my garage. Please tell me they’re not gonna keel over there.
USinUK
January 10th, 2011
9:55 am
Doggone – and when the problem is paranoia, I can’t imagine how much harder it is to get that person into counseling
Southern Comfort
January 10th, 2011
9:55 am
When you pray for the impossible…don’t be surprised if you don’t get it.
I second the motion!!
Doggone/GA
January 10th, 2011
9:55 am
“The uk has a geographical leg up on the situation”
You’ve got to be kidding! The UK is completely surrounded by water and smuggling has been an industry there since man first occupied those islands.
Doggone/GA
January 10th, 2011
9:56 am
“and when the problem is paranoia, I can’t imagine how much harder it is to get that person into counseling”
Exactly
snowbound
January 10th, 2011
9:57 am
jay i wish your well thought out and sincere words were actually the reflection of the American conscious. unfortunately it is not. this was strategically political and anyone willing to pull a gun on another person is arguably mentally unhealthy and therefore his health is not a clear scapegoat for the implications of this attack. its a changing nation that’s chosen leaders have advocated for violent revolutions and while some pour their heart outs to this tragedy, others have likely privately rejoiced.
we live in an era where countless families have been physically removed from their homes, terminated from their jobs and while banished to poverty being told by their fellow countrymen they only have themselves to blame. there is social movements pushing the freedom to gay marriage, extending choice to women and placing value on immigrants. on either side of these conditions is a strong emotional and near obsessive reaction. unfortunately i don’t believe this is going away through neutral perspective on attempted assassinations.
i’d argue that part of Obamas decline in approval is his insistance on passive leadership when in 2008 masses in America were ready for powerful, undeniable and direct change. he believes in leading by example but has underestimated the momentum of both the oppressed and the oppressors in America. though an admirably written sentiment i feel like this post does the same.
its a scary world right now. hiding behind sensibility doesn’t change it unfortunately.
Mr. Snarky
January 10th, 2011
9:57 am
Jared was insane, but so are Arizona’s and our gun laws. That’s all I have to say.
Lil' Barry Bailout
January 10th, 2011
9:57 am
TaxPayer, with all the hate coming from the left, it wasn’t easy.
Del
January 10th, 2011
9:58 am
Doggone, pretty good point.
ty webb
January 10th, 2011
9:58 am
Well said Jay! Now, I need some help. Snow day…Bourbon or beer?
josef nix
January 10th, 2011
9:58 am
@@
The birdies…give ‘em something to eat…they need our help today…
Fred
January 10th, 2011
9:59 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout
January 10th, 2011
9:51 am
Fred
3:31 pm
Is anyone surprised by this sad event after the rhetoric from the likes of Palin, “Don’t retreat reload.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That wasn’t me, I neither read nor posted on that thread. I’m getting pretty damn tired of that fake Fred using my screen name. He drops little gems on several blogs here I post on.
I need a new handle. Any suggestions?
USinUK
January 10th, 2011
9:59 am
md – “The uk has a geographical leg up on the situation. Much harder to smuggle in arms, vs the us with wide open borders………………..and no ship/plane needed……..”
um. ever hear of ferries.
or the Chunnel?
seriously, we’re not as much of an island as you think.
md
January 10th, 2011
9:59 am
“Then click on the current recommendations, read the .pdf and lets get some common sense legislation.”
Criminals won’t much care if it makes sense……………go for it at your own peril, for the one you will be handicapping is yourself. Police more often than not respond to crime, very rarely prevent it.
Southern Comfort
January 10th, 2011
9:59 am
I need some help. Snow day…Bourbon or beer?
Why not Bourbon infused beer??
TaxPayer
January 10th, 2011
9:59 am
TaxPayer, with all the hate coming from the left, it wasn’t easy
And eventually that flood of hate just overwhelmed you and you were left with no other option but to give in and attack. Is that it.
USinUK
January 10th, 2011
10:00 am
Fred – 9:59 – how about “the real Fred” or ‘not the obnoxious name-stealing Fred”
Lil' Barry Bailout
January 10th, 2011
10:00 am
Fred, sorry, didn’t realize that. Thank you for pointing it out.
Fred
January 10th, 2011
10:00 am
AmVet @ 9:47:
Did you know that there is a group of Doxie breeders that actively protest weiner dog races?
Anyway, thanks for the video, my daughter loved it. She found one that looks like Sam, our Doxie. He was the one who either won or tied for the win lol.
Southern Comfort
January 10th, 2011
10:01 am
I need a new handle. Any suggestions?
How about Fred G. Sanford. And the “G” could stand for genuine.
Jay
January 10th, 2011
10:01 am
USinUK, there’s also the fact that we EXPORT illegal arms to Canada and Mexico. They’re not the source, we are.
Lil' Barry Bailout
January 10th, 2011
10:01 am
TaxPayer, how is that different from what you’re now doing?
md
January 10th, 2011
10:01 am
“And I call that BS.”
You can call it whatever you want……….doesn’t change the facts.
Normal
January 10th, 2011
10:01 am
I come upstairs for a cup a joe and to read a little more about snow, and I find that a wonderful essay by Jay, mainly preaching peace, has been torn down by mindless partisan-ism. I don’t get it it, where is the sadness, the empathy, the caring?
Four adults and a lovely child lost their lives to a madman, period.
I have Grandchildren that age and I cry for her parents. I railed at the Great Spirit for allowing this to happen, but I’ll go no further on that subject.
They tell me that bad things happen for a reason, so look at that nine year old girls picture and ask yourself how can I make sure this will never happen again? How can I show that I care for my fellow man, no matter what his/hers beliefs, color, sex, etc.
As far as I’m concerned, the vitriol from both sides show a decided lack of upbringing and I’m ashamed for you.
Matti
January 10th, 2011
10:02 am
Two days before the shooting, I ran into a long-time (R) collegue at a company event with whom I’d had numerous political arguments over the years, some quite bitter. Always loved her as a person, but when the discussions turned political, neither of us would back down and things could get ugly. Last week I told her that I wasn’t fighting with my (R) friends anymore, because I realize that there are NOT two opposing sides in D.C., (one fighting valiantly for our freedom, the other trying to destroy it.) I said, “They’re all on the same side: THEIRS. They want us to fight with each other so we won’t pay attention to what they’re doing. I don’t want to do it anymore.” We hugged tightly, and others were looking at us like, “What just happened there?” When this horrible news broke Saturday, I was glad I’d taken the time to open up to her. The division is sinking us, and our only hope is to find a way to pull together.
That being said, some of you on here have made it clear you’ll never feel that way. Don’t think I’m turning my back on your kind. Ever.
getalife
January 10th, 2011
10:02 am
@@,
Let them eat crumbs.
Give them a hand out.
USinUK
January 10th, 2011
10:02 am
“The birdies…give ‘em something to eat…they need our help today…”
pinecone + peanut butter + birdseed
always a crowd-pleaser!!
Southern Comfort
January 10th, 2011
10:03 am
Jay
Don’t forget that we also export legal arms to Canada, Mexico and beyond illegally. I know some people who are trying to curtail that on a daily basis.
ty webb
January 10th, 2011
10:03 am
Soco,
Good idea. I might mix the two if my bourbon was swill, but I’m talking Maker’s Mark, not Jim Beam.
Lil' Barry Bailout
January 10th, 2011
10:03 am
Jay, if they’re illegal, I believe the more appropriate noun would be “criminals” and the verb would be “SMUGGLE”.
Keep up the good fight!
January 10th, 2011
10:03 am
Really md…that is the best you have. Microstamping is handicapping? Requiring dealer inventory audits? There are many other proposals.
USinUK
January 10th, 2011
10:03 am
Jay – 10:01 – you’re not suggesting that (gasp!) we could be part of the problem!!
Doggone/GA
January 10th, 2011
10:04 am
Ok, so snow weather seem to trigger a funny mood in me and I notice things I never noticed before. My sister has a pack of rye crackers that has been sitting on our counter for a week. The package says “baked since 1919″
Isn’t that a LONG time to spend in the oven?
Fred
January 10th, 2011
10:05 am
Remember when Prince changed his name to some weird symbol? He then became “The Artist Formerly know as Prince” or Tafkap. Maybe I could go with The Poster Formerly Know As Fred, Tpfkaf. Oh wait, not enough vowels…………..
Well many here think I’m an ass so I could go as TAFKAF, or Taf KaF. Does it sing?
josef nix
January 10th, 2011
10:06 am
“And I call that BS.”
I’m right and you’re wrong. And we are unanimous in that. So there!
matti
Hello in the wildernerss…it’s certainly beautiful outside today…got my hair shirt ready in case the power goes off!
pat
January 10th, 2011
10:06 am
Wow! You guys were really petty. Shame on you. I wisely chose to stay the heck out. Yea me!
md
January 10th, 2011
10:06 am
“seriously, we’re not as much of an island as you think.”
Not being snarky, but comparing an island of 94k sq miles with a land locked continent of 4 million sq miles is a bit hard to do. The logistics of stopping smuggling in the later is dang near impossible.
USinUK
January 10th, 2011
10:06 am
ty – neither! pull out some rum, mint, sugar and lime and crank out the mojitos!! give the snow a caribbean flavor!!
Southern Comfort
January 10th, 2011
10:06 am
ty
Unless the beer is a good Belgian or German, I’d do the Maker’s. That’s just me though.
@@
January 10th, 2011
10:07 am
josef:
Don’t they eat worms? Not something I keep on hand.
I have bread?
All the birds falling from the sky has me a bit unnerved. First in Arkansas, then in Louisiana and now in Europe.
It’s weird.
SOUTHERN ATL
January 10th, 2011
10:07 am
Nice article Jay…..Peace on Earth and Goodwill to All!!!
Scout
January 10th, 2011
10:07 am
Jay:
“Free and open debate is the lifeblood of democracy, and it is not always a genteel process. But we set the boundaries of appropriate rhetoric when we decide where to place our loyalty and attention. And we will pay the consequences of choosing wrongly.”
In my opinion, the liberal posters here (one in particular that you cut out of the herd yesterday) immediately went down the road of trying to affix political blame. Most of us conservatives merely posted to counter their foolish and inappropriate arguments.
That said, there is much more at stake here than just this terrible event.
It is the political battle for the soul and direction of this country. Do we hold to the truths that made this country the greatest that has ever existed or do we watch our country continue to go down this dangerous road to evolve into something ugly and unrecognizable that we never imagined in our lifetimes.
From this battle we will not shrink.
“This we will defend”
josef nix
January 10th, 2011
10:09 am
ty, SoCo
Which bourbon? Now THERE’s an argument we can all agree on can’t be settled…and just as polarizing as the political one…
USinUK
January 10th, 2011
10:10 am
md – 10:06 – I’m not comparing the two – I’m saying that the UKs borders aren’t water-tight
(get it? island? water tight! I kill me)
seriously, with ferries between the continent and England, with the Chunnel, with Eurostar, it’s more like a long drive across country than it is going to an island destination.
Southern Comfort
January 10th, 2011
10:10 am
Maybe I could go with The Poster Formerly Know As Fred, Tpfkaf.
http://www.shootbank.net/photos/1756.medium.jpg
Reynolds
January 10th, 2011
10:10 am
Surprisingly enough Jay, pretty well said. With the exception of a few libs trying to publicly link this clown to the Tea Party, most comments have been appropiate and apolitical. It’s sounding like now he was planning this since 2007, which would destroy anyone’s argument regardless of which side you are coming from.
ty webb
January 10th, 2011
10:10 am
usinuk,
Irie!
Doggone/GA
January 10th, 2011
10:11 am
It’s snowing again out here in Hall County
Del
January 10th, 2011
10:11 am
Jay, most fire arms are manufactured outside the United States and show up in Mexico and Canada from foreign countries. While it’s true that guns purchased in this country have been smuggled out and into Mexico or Canada we’re not the principal source.
md
January 10th, 2011
10:11 am
“USinUK, there’s also the fact that we EXPORT illegal arms to Canada and Mexico. They’re not the source, we are.”
Currently…….key word. Ban the guns, and the flow will come from somewhere, inside, outside makes no difference………they is money to be made. Not to mention the fact that criminals won’t be turning theirs in……..along with most country folks that will hide them in the closet.
TaxPayer
January 10th, 2011
10:11 am
TaxPayer, how is that different from what you’re now doing?
Lil Barry,
If you like, you could go back to the thread that is in question and pull up all of my posts and put them beside yours. And if you find that prospect less filling, then by all means pull up my posts from this thread and elaborate on your concern.
Don't let the facts get in the way of your hate
January 10th, 2011
10:12 am
“The pettiness and rhetoric in Washington reflect our own selfishness and shortsightedness here at home” Is that ever the truth….
Ex Republican
January 10th, 2011
10:13 am
Well said Jay. I ask myself that question over the weekend in the aftermath of this tragedy. Is it the politicians or are they feeding off the rage and anger of their constituents? You have have answered my question.
ty webb
January 10th, 2011
10:13 am
Josef,
Maker’s Mark! Without a doubt, and anyone who disagrees with me is just plain “evil”.
md
January 10th, 2011
10:14 am
“Really md…that is the best you have. Microstamping is handicapping? Requiring dealer inventory audits? There are many other proposals.”
All for law abiding citizens………………now what legislation are you going to pass for those that don’t obey the laws??????
Doggone/GA
January 10th, 2011
10:14 am
USinUK – in reference to nothing at all, my waterfalls are now up to 131!
USinUK
January 10th, 2011
10:15 am
Doggone – I’ll have to check in at the blog to see the pics –
I’m just impressed with the fortitude of seeing them in the cold weather!
josef nix
January 10th, 2011
10:15 am
ty
I know better than to get into the argument, but I’ll gladly volunteer for the taste tests!
BADA BING
January 10th, 2011
10:15 am
When I first heard that a Judge, a politician, and some innocent citizens had been shot, I thought I was reading the daily news from Mexico.
Keep up the good fight!
January 10th, 2011
10:17 am
md… nonsensical red herring. Laws are never passed for those who will break them. But you duck with your absurdity why these common sense proposals are resisted.
AmVet
January 10th, 2011
10:18 am
According to the genius of comedic observations, the problem is you and me.
GIGO…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk
Doggone/GA
January 10th, 2011
10:19 am
“I’m just impressed with the fortitude of seeing them in the cold weather!”
For me, it’s more impressive to see them in HOT weather. I’m a cold weather gal, don’t like the hot weather at all.
Doggone/GA
January 10th, 2011
10:20 am
“Laws are never passed for those who will break them”
And all rhetoric aside, they aren’t passed TO stop them either. They are passed to define the punishments FOR breaking them.
josef nix
January 10th, 2011
10:21 am
Speaking of the birdies, the Bishinik is here! Yay!
Keep up the good fight!
January 10th, 2011
10:22 am
No disagreement with your 10:20 from me, Doggone