Huckabee says no he didn’t, but yes indeedy he did
According to Mike Huckabee, he has never supported a cap-and-trade approach to limiting carbon emissions. As he puts it point-blank on his website:
“In a recent internet post, a contributor makes the claim that I supported cap-and-trade in late 2007 while running for President.
To put it simply, that’s just not true.
If companies chose to participate voluntarily as part of their corporate policy, then fine. But I was clear that we could not force U.S. businesses to do what their Chinese counterparts refused to – and doing so would have been a serious job killer.
I understand this issue well, and I realize the potential damage that would occur if it passes because I was the chair of the 37 state-member Oil and Gas Compact Commission for 2 years. In fact, I led the state or Arkansas through the process of developing the Fayetteville Shale play of natural gas.
This kind of mandatory energy policy would have a horrible impact on this nation’s job market. I never did support and never would support it – period.”
However, there’s overwhelming video evidence to the contrary. On Oct. 13, 2007, at the Global Warming and Energy Solutions Conference in the critical primary state of New Hampshire, Huckabee acknowledged the challenge of climate change. “We all have a responsibility to recognize that climate change is here, it’s real, and that what we have to do is quit pointing fingers as to who’s at fault and who’s responsibility it is to fix it, and recognize that it’s all of our fault and we all have responsibility to fix it.”
At the 2:00 minute mark in the video, Huckabee goes on to make his stance on cap and trade as explicit as possible. He says:
“I also support cap-and-trade of carbon emissions and I was disappointed when the Senate rejected a carbon counting system to measure the sources of emissions because that would have been the first and most important step in implementing true cap-and-trade.”
I know, I know. A politician who flip flops. Yawn. Newt Gingrich has made the same transition, from an ardent advocate of cap and trade — “I think if you have mandatory carbon caps combined with a trading system, much like we did with sulfur, and if you have a tax-incentive program for investing in the solutions, that there’s a package there that’s very, very good. And frankly, it’s something I would strongly support” — to an implacable foe of a proposal that he now considers part of a secular-socialist plot to destroy America.
But Steve Benen at Washington Monthly makes a larger point:
“It wasn’t too long ago — within the last decade — that there was a basic spectrum of policy positions Republicans accepted on a range of national issues. Not every candidate agreed across the board with every position, but the GOP’s general approach was fairly easy to identify.
On health care, for example, the Republican mainstream envisioned a system involving an individual mandate. On arms control, the Republican mainstream embraced policies along the lines of the original START treaty.
And on energy policy, the Republican mainstream loved cap and trade. Indeed, just two years ago, the ticket of John McCain and Sarah Palin vowed to establish “a cap-and-trade system that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions” and pursue “alternatives to carbon-based fuels.”
The point, of course, isn’t just that the Republican mainstream has shifted sharply to the right, it’s that the mainstream has fallen off a right-wing cliff with surprising speed. Positions that were widely accepted by Republicans just a few years ago are now considered communist plots to destroy the American way of life.”
It does make you wonder who’s driving the Republican train, leaving people such as Huckabee and Gingrich scrambling to keep up.
– Jay Bookman
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260 comments Add your comment
Normal
December 16th, 2010
2:27 pm
“The point, of course, isn’t just that the Republican mainstream has shifted sharply to the right, it’s that the mainstream has fallen off a right-wing cliff with surprising speed. Positions that were widely accepted by Republicans just a few years ago are now considered communist plots to destroy the American way of life.”
“It does make you wonder who’s driving the Republican train.”
That’s easy, Big Oil….
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
2:31 pm
“It does make you wonder who’s driving the Republican train.”
The same toolbox that drove the train in “Silver Streak”?
Kamchak
December 16th, 2010
2:32 pm
It does make you wonder who’s driving the Republican train.
That would be James Bopp Jr.
(3) We support market-based energy reforms by opposing cap and trade legislation;
jewcowboy
December 16th, 2010
2:34 pm
Doggone/GA,
“he same toolbox that drove the train in “Silver Streak”?”
I loved that movie!
@@
December 16th, 2010
2:35 pm
Nice guy, Huckabee, but if I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a dozen times.
Mike Huckabee is as liberal a Republican as I’ve ever witnessed.
Don’t know when he or Gingrich changed their tune. Could it have been AFTER the climate-gate scandal? Looks like it.
Shawny
December 16th, 2010
2:43 pm
Yep, the GOP have a monopoly on flip-flopping.
NOT!
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
2:46 pm
I dont get to blow the whistle,
I dont get to ring the bell,
but let this train the tracks,
and see who catches hell….
Why, its the republicans, of course….
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
2:47 pm
thats let this train”jump the tracks”
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
2:48 pm
Is cap and trade another one of those things we have to pass to see whats in it?
Union
December 16th, 2010
2:49 pm
you ever wonder if a politician says so dang much that they actually forget what they said?
i like watching the daily show when i get a chance.. and jon stewart and crew drag up videos of folks from years ago.. maybe they need to consult with them before they speak on any position?
Ragnar Danneskjöld
December 16th, 2010
2:49 pm
Good afternoon all. We Republicans believe in redemption. If there are wishy-washy moderate souls who have awakened from their leftist slumber and now use the cognitive gifts God gave them, we welcome them enthusiastically. Those whose brains were dead are now alive again, a point to celebrate.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
2:49 pm
“I loved that movie!”
Me too! It’s one of the very few that are in my personal collection
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
2:50 pm
“(3) We support market-based energy reforms by opposing cap and trade legislation;”
Not realizing that cap-and-trade IS a market-based system of control
Mick
December 16th, 2010
2:51 pm
ragnar
The only thing you republicans believe in is tax cuts!!! Merry Xmas
Paul
December 16th, 2010
2:51 pm
People can’t evolve in their understanding, revise positions based upon new circumstances or come to understand a new position may be more proper, for if they do, they ‘flip flop.’
So what we hear is deny, deny, deny. Sad.
But the larger story – the ‘who has the influence and how did they exercise it so quickly?’ – is fascinating and troubling. I’ve long thought a few savvy players in a huge organization can be the drivers behind major policy decisions – especially when those players are not the decision makers. Witness Perle, Gaffney, Wolfowitz and the others in the Pres Bush’s first term.
Like I’ve said – I used to think Ludlum novels were fiction…..
Good afternoon, @@
“Mike Huckabee is as liberal a Republican as I’ve ever witnessed.”
Y’know, if it wasn’t for diversity of views within a party and a lack of emphasis what a ‘real’ (insert party name) is, the tax compromise bill would never have passed the Senate and would (prediction, here) not have passed the House, either.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
2:51 pm
“Is cap and trade another one of those things we have to pass to see whats in it?”
No – a simple answer to a stupid question
Ragnar Danneskjöld
December 16th, 2010
2:51 pm
Cap and tax is a market based system of control in the same sense that social security is an independent insurance program.
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
2:55 pm
doggone….that aint stupid….I dont ask stupid questions. I made a derisive point, as you well know.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
2:55 pm
“The Cap and Trade Success Story”
http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=1085
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
2:56 pm
“I dont ask stupid questions”
So, you CAN be wrong after all? yes, you DID ask a stupid question and you got the answer it deserved.
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
2:57 pm
and while we are on the subject, ms doggone…what you like to discuss bills that came out of subcommittee looking NOTHING like what was originally proposed to the public? We would be here the rest of our natural lives…..
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
2:58 pm
Doggone, who are you talking about? You have never seen me act or blog like a know-it-all conservative here even once. And anybody from Bosch to Kam to Granny should be able to attest to that….you got me confused with someone else…
either that or you got a hell of a chip today….
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
2:59 pm
“what you like to discuss bills that came out of subcommittee looking NOTHING like what was originally proposed to the public”
That’s a natural part of the political process. Ever heard of “amendments”? Virtually no bill of any significance gets passed as originally written.
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
3:00 pm
and your style of rudeness is why I post so sparingly….
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
3:00 pm
“either that or you got a hell of a chip today….”
back atcha
Bob
December 16th, 2010
3:00 pm
I actually voted for it, before I voted against it.
thomas
December 16th, 2010
3:01 pm
“either that or you got a hell of a chip today….”
Today? as in only one day?
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
3:01 pm
“Virtually no bill of any significance gets passed as originally written.”
Hence, the derisive question…..
Matti
December 16th, 2010
3:01 pm
C’mon, A GENTLEMAN DENIES IT! and the ladies appreciate that! Oh, wait…. we’re talking about Hucklebee, not Clinton… never mind.
I'm Regular
December 16th, 2010
3:01 pm
Who’s driving the Republicans. Haven’t you heard. Why, it’s none other than Obama himself at the opposition’s wheel. He says up. They say down. He says go. They say stop. He says yes, they say no, no, no.
@@
December 16th, 2010
3:02 pm
Paul:
The tax bill is loaded with pork. Financial rewards for votes in support of? I’m not impressed.
I haven’t changed my mind about Huckabee. I was opposed to his nomination after researching his terms as Governor of Arkansas.
Kamchak
December 16th, 2010
3:03 pm
Virtually no bill of any significance gets passed as originally written.
But the FairTax bill would. It says so right here in both of Boortz’ books.
Paul
December 16th, 2010
3:07 pm
@@
I’m not a fan of the extent Sen Reid had to go to bribe his fellow Democrats for their votes, either. Especially the ethanol subsidies (altho it is ironic how many billions Democrats will funnel to Archer Daniels Midland while at the same time railing against tax cuts for the rich).
But my larger point was, if not for moderate to conservative Democrats and practical Republicans, the bill would not have passed. Heck, hardly anything would pass if the Democratic Party was all farleft ideologues and the Republican Party was all farright ideologues.
Compromise: holding your nose ’cause the cod liver oil’s good for you -
Union
December 16th, 2010
3:08 pm
kamchak.. big ppl talking here.. i think tucker is looking for you?
Randy Davis
December 16th, 2010
3:09 pm
Governor Mike Huckabee DOES NOT and HAS NEVER favored the current Cap and Trade legislation, quite the extreme opposite. In the video here from 2007 he is not referring to “today’s” Cap and Trade legislation. Instead, he was speaking about voluntary cap and trade—supported by Ronald Reagan in fact….it is NOT the same bill as in 2010. He has spoken and written repeatedly about his opposition to Cap and Trade, even on his own Fox television show. It is easy to see however, how people could be confused by this video clip. Thanks and Merry Christmas to everyone.
Citizen of the World
December 16th, 2010
3:12 pm
The reason Republicans are no longer in favor of any of the reasonable steps we might take together to address our problems is because that would not fit into their us-them dichotomy, the one they have worked so hard to cultivate through Fox News and talk radio.
Their base can’t deal with grey areas and they know it, so everything has to be white-black, good-evil, right-wrong, right-left, conservative-liberal with them. Casting themselves, of course, as the white, right and good.
Kamchak
December 16th, 2010
3:12 pm
kamchak.. big ppl talking here..
Whatsamatta, sport?
Did I just gore your ox?
Bosch
December 16th, 2010
3:13 pm
Wasn’t cap and trade a GHW Bush brain child?
@@
December 16th, 2010
3:13 pm
Paul:
The price tag on compromise is too high. You know me….I’m a discount shopper. Cod liver oil at a discount price is bearable. I’ll drink it straight up without the chasers…thank you very much.
Bosch
December 16th, 2010
3:14 pm
“it is NOT the same bill as in 2010″
Yeah, it’s the OTHER Cap and Trade.
Good grief.
Bosch
December 16th, 2010
3:15 pm
“voluntary cap and trade”
because we all know that when asked to volunteer to do things, people ALWAYS will — like why can’t we just have voluntary taxes?
Del
December 16th, 2010
3:16 pm
It’s kind of early to begin running against Huckabee but I guess the Democrats have good reason to fear anyone who might become Obama’s 012 challenger, so they’ll now shoot wildly in any direction. Jay, I think you’re wasting ammunition because I don’t believe Huckabee will be the Republican nominee.
Bosch
December 16th, 2010
3:17 pm
“Democrats have good reason to fear anyone who might become Obama’s 012 challenger”
OMG, your kidding Del. Huckabee would probably lose against Obama worse than Palin — and as of now, that’s a 55-33% poll number.
Adam
December 16th, 2010
3:19 pm
Um…. raise your hand if you’re surprised?
Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2010
3:21 pm
Who’s positions change more frequently Mitt’s or Mikes?
Oh the wondrous material available for campaign cmmercials!
@@
December 16th, 2010
3:27 pm
Bosch, in his enthusiasm to be seen, must’ve missed the part where Del said “Jay, I think you’re wasting ammunition because I don’t believe Huckabee will be the Republican nominee.”
OMG, Bosch is such a twit.
Union
December 16th, 2010
3:27 pm
Kamchak
December 16th, 2010
3:12 pm
“Did I just gore your ox?”
nope.. i doubt you could even carry my bags..
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2010
3:28 pm
Wasn’t there a video of Huckabee, earlier?
(I wanted to listen to it to find out if the magic word “voluntary” appeared in it, in the context of his support for cap and trade.)
Matti
December 16th, 2010
3:30 pm
Del: “..but I guess the Democrats have good reason to fear anyone who might ..”
**YAAWWWWWWWN!** If you close your eyes and imagine we’re all afraid, does it get you a little turned on? C’mon, Santa is listening. Tell the truth, and you might actually get what you want for Christmas.
FYI, Sparky: We survived our worst national political fears, namely, pretty much everything Bush & Cheney did. Now we’re surviving the fact that nobody lets us down like our OWN! Ha! (Kinda like how you’ll remember at Christmas that nobody can mess you up like your own family.) It’s the Republican Americans who are in the grips of terror. Look outside your window! See them there, running around in circles, flapping their arms, horrified faces pointed toward the sky screaming, “Obamacare is coming! ACK! Socialists! ACK! The LEFTISTS are here! ACK! ACK!”
The Dems are used to defeat, so much so that they capitulate their own leverage with pointless compromises just to get it over with already. Who’s ready for some egg nog? Easy on the egg, heavy on the nog, please! Fear is for *blanks.* (You know what word goes there.)
Del
December 16th, 2010
3:32 pm
Bosch,
I don’t see Huckabee being a strong contender for the Republican nomination once campaigning gets into gear. I think the Dem’s are fractured at this point and it wouldn’t surprise me to see a Dem challenge to Obama. Obama has a lot of work to do over the next 2 years and he might find himself getting shot at by Republicans on one side and his own party on the other. It would be interesting politics if it weren’t for the fact that we’re in such difficult times.
Tim
December 16th, 2010
3:32 pm
Huckabee is a bald-faced liar just like all Republicans.
Seriously, the Atlanta-Journal Constitution needs to start back doing daily Editorials in the print edition and online. It’s pathetic that the AJC is the state’s largest newspaper, and yet we must go to the Macon Telegraph or Athens-Banner Herald to read daily editorials. The AJC only does editorials on Sundays- ONE DAY A WEEK. The number of letters to the editor has also decreased. With a region as large as metro Atlanta, how can the AJC only publish 3 letters to the editor?
We need an editorial every day, blogs are not enough.
For instance, what does the AJC Editorial Board think about these issues:
1. The Prison Protest– Prisoners in Georgia have been protesting poor food, living conditions, lack of pay for work, a lack of educational opportunities,etc. In Georgia, prisoners can only get a GED. In most other states they can earn a high-school diploma while incarcerated. What does the editorial board think about the deprivation and exploitation that Georgia prisoners must endure every day?
2. The 29 MILLION Oaky Woods Purchase. While Republicans claim that Georgia is broke and must continue to furlough teachers, close state parks, cut back on the HOPE scholarship, decrease funding to colleges, etc, they somehow found 29 MILLION to purchase Oaky Woods.
The state paid twice as much as the property was worth! What about the corruption in this deal? Governor Perdue passed on this deal in 2004 because he said the state didn’t have the money. And yet, we have the money six years later, so that he could enrich his developer buddies down in Houston County. Why doesn’t the Editorial Board attack this corruption and graft with the same zeal that they went after Atlanta School Superintendent Beverly Hall?
3. What about the Republican scam to shift the burden on the poor by lowering income and corporate taxes, and then raising the sales tax? They’re even talking about taxing groceries.
Where is the AJC editorial board on these important issues? The largest paper in the state should have Daily Editorials. Blogs should be a supplement to the editorials and columns, they shouldn’t be a replacement. There is no excuse for smaller newspapers in Georgia writing daily editorials, while the AJC only has them on Sundays. It’s truly pathetic.
larry
December 16th, 2010
3:32 pm
It does make you wonder who’s driving the Republican train, leaving people such as Huckabee and Gingrich scrambling to keep up.
Why they are going off the rails on their Crazy Train!!! Ozzy is driving the train. He looooooooves his tax cuts.Make that his accountants loves them.
RW-(the original)
December 16th, 2010
3:34 pm
At the 2:00 minute mark in the video, Huckabee goes on to make his stance on cap and trade as explicit as possible.
stands,
That part of the story sure makes it sound like there is supposed to be a video.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
3:38 pm
Somebody do me a favor, please explain cap and trade in 50 words or less that an economics dud such as myself can understand. I am not being an ass, I really am lost.
As for Huckabee, it’s interesting to watch the liberal-democrat-progressive-left moving him to the front of the line for attack/criticism. Is he now the GOP front runner in those eyes?
Jay
December 16th, 2010
3:39 pm
There WAS to have been a video, but the embed code is faulty. I’ve now linked to the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KicX3Zc994c
Disgusted
December 16th, 2010
3:40 pm
I wish to congratulate all those state employees who voted Republican in the gubernatorial race, thinking they were striking a blow for conservatism. Nathan Deal has announced in a speech to business leaders that one of the ways he will “shrink the size of government” is to lay off oodles of state workers. Enjoy your time in the unemployment line, suckahs.
Keep up the good fight!
December 16th, 2010
3:40 pm
Cap and trade is a market based solution to carbon that has been discussed and proposed for years. Not surprising that many Republicans were for it before they were against it. The reason for their change of position is not based on a problem with the market based solution or valid scientific point….its simply because they have sold their souls to the Koch brothers and their other overlords.
Union
December 16th, 2010
3:42 pm
Disgusted
December 16th, 2010
3:40 pm
“Nathan Deal has announced in a speech to business leaders that one of the ways he will “shrink the size of government” is to lay off oodles of state workers. Enjoy your time in the unemployment line, suckahs.”
why should state workers be any different from someone working for a private company?
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
3:42 pm
“That part of the story sure makes it sound like there is supposed to be a video”
There was one.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
3:42 pm
Tim
In answer to your question I would venture that the other papers you mention have not forgotten the market and demographic they serve…Georgia. The AJC has a rather inflated view of itself as something other than a provencial publication serving an essentially Georgian population.
Keep up the good fight!
December 16th, 2010
3:43 pm
Nix…in very oversimplistic terms. A cap is set on carbon emissions as a result of manufacturing and production. Those companies that are below the cap can “sell” their unused volume to those that are over. Those companies that are over can buy additional volume or they can invest to reduce their emissions.
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2010
3:44 pm
It would be interesting politics if it weren’t for the fact that we’re in such difficult times.
Yep. Thinking bigger-picture here, it’s never a good sign for the country when a President is experiencing a serious primary challenge, whether it’s Gerry Ford in ’76, Jimmy Carter in ’80, or, potentially, Obama in ’12. I tend to hope that Obama isn’t primary-challenged, not so much because I wouldn’t rather have (oh, let’s say…) a President Al Franken, but rather because the economy, and especially the employment situation, would have to be even more FUBAR than it already is for that to happen.
jconservative
December 16th, 2010
3:45 pm
“If there are wishy-washy moderate souls who have awakened from their leftist slumber and now use the cognitive gifts God gave them, we welcome them enthusiastically. Those whose brains were dead are now alive again, a point to celebrate.”
If, if ,if!
If “if and buts were candy and nuts……………”.
If one could be sure they are not lying, one could believe that they have awakened. That they had indeed found the “holy grail”.
But, but, but!
There seems to be a lot of “redemption” happening to the right of center. Maybe too much much too late. And so the L word enters the discussion. “Tell the voters what they want to hear”. Sound advice from an old political sage.
The former “Liberal Republican Governor of Massachusetts” is now a “true believer”. The former “Speaker of the House” is so far out that at times he appears to have dropped off the edge of the world.
And now the former “Moderate Republican Governor of Arkansas” finds it necessary to veer to the right in an apparent attempt to fine the base.
I guess it is just my age and just being old and ornery. But if someone stands up and says with all sincerity “this” and a couple of years later stands up in all sincerity and says “that”, I just get suspicious.
And now from the left of center I hear those who never saw a spending bill they could not support voting “NO” on a big spending bill.
More proof that it is all about the base when one is running and all about the center when one is governing.
ty webb
December 16th, 2010
3:45 pm
“What does the editorial board think about the deprivation and exploitation that Georgia prisoners must endure every day?”
Better yet, why don’t we ask their victims what they think about it…sheesh. And editorials? really?…guess someone needs to be told what to think.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
3:46 pm
good fight…
@ 3:43
Thanks. I could follow that.
Union
December 16th, 2010
3:46 pm
sfd.. do you think the anti obama rant by the dems will slow down soon? i was wondering the same thing.. if they extend the tax cuts.. then someone from within the democratic party may challenge him on just that issue alone?
Paul
December 16th, 2010
3:46 pm
Okay, now that the Huckabee stuff is over -
Can we please get back to this issue of what the heck has happened (and who is driving it) to Republicans, given their past support for an individual mandate for health insurance, arms control, energy policies?
As far as the individual mandate, I’ve an idea: given Pres Obama said people should be responsible for their own health care and not expect others to pay for it, I’ll wager Republicans didn’t want to be associated with him, so they swapped positions and took up what they saw as the old Democratic position of “you don’t want to take care of yourself? Poor dear, here… let me do it for you.”
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
3:47 pm
Josef – a basic cap-and-trade system sets a value on a particular pollutant (sulpher for example) and sets a limit on how much of that pollutant can be put into . The companies that emit those pollutants are give a set number of “stocks” in those pollutants. If a company makes changes and reduces their emissions, they are free to sell any extra “stocks” to companies who need to have more “room” for emissions.
is that 50 words? There are all sorts of variations though. One way to work towards REDUCING emissions is at set intervals, yearly or whatever, the government buys some of the “stocks” that are available…thus making them no longer available for companies to buy. That, effectively, reduces the emissions “cap” for the next set interval.
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
3:47 pm
Tim,
I think the AJC quit doing editorials because, typically, they were so far to the left that people kept dropping the paper out of disgust that only the left side was represented….but thats just my opinion.
As for point # 1, prisoners are where they are due to their own actions. I think they should be fairly treated and fed, but other than that, BS. They repay the cost to society for being segregated from us with their labor, whether it be road work or whatever and I strongly support that. And when we are talking about cutting back on HOPE for lack of funds, damn if I will endorse the state giving them a college education. That is ludicrious.
2. Agreed, but every leftist environmentalist in the state swallowed and said do the deal, just dont let this virgin property get away, at any cost. I dont think this was just to help the governor with his own piddly 100 or so acres; however, I agree this was virtual robbery by the owners….
3. sorry, but we have different philosophies on this, so I will pass on this argument….
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
3:49 pm
“I’ll wager Republicans didn’t want to be associated with him, so they swapped positions and took up what they saw as the old Democratic position of “you don’t want to take care of yourself?”
It would be fun to see the Dems try that. wouldn’t it?
Kamchak
December 16th, 2010
3:50 pm
i doubt you could even carry my bags..
Your “baggage” is your own to carry.
Lil' Barry Bailout
December 16th, 2010
3:51 pm
Wow, that’s almost as bad as “I will shut down Guantanamo Bay within one year”.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
3:51 pm
“I think the AJC quit doing editorials because, typically, they were so far to the left that people kept dropping the paper out of disgust that only the left side was represented….but thats just my opinion”
And I have a totally different take on the whole issue of editorials. I don’t think a news organization should be doing editorials at all. Stick to reporting the NEWS.
Keep up the good fight!
December 16th, 2010
3:52 pm
Nix — in general it is a very effective way for an industry to determine whether it wants to invest in reduction equipment. If, for example, they are at 98% efficency and if costs them 10% of their income to upgrade to achieve 98.5% or it costs them 1% to purchase additional credits, then capitalism provides an answer to claims of unrealistic regulation. If a company can invest 1% to achieve great reduction and has credits to sell that adds 10% to the bottom line, it also makes sense.
Its a smarter overall approach to claims of inefficient regulation.
Paul
December 16th, 2010
3:52 pm
Doggone/GA
“It would be fun to see the Dems try that. wouldn’t it?”
And I thought I had a sick sense of humor!
Union
December 16th, 2010
3:52 pm
Kamchak
December 16th, 2010
3:50 pm
“Your “baggage” is your own to carry”
ahh.. if only that were true.. not so much.. im too busy spitting on the less fortunate.. didnt you read?
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
3:53 pm
“Obama Issues Directive to Shut Down Guantánamo”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/us/politics/22gitmo.html
problem is, CONGRESS refuses to fund that shut-down.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
3:54 pm
“And I thought I had a sick sense of humor!”
I think the problem is that not enough Dems in power HAVE enough of a sense of humor to even give such a strategy a thought, let alone a trial.
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 16th, 2010
3:55 pm
josef
For what it’s worth, I have a different view of cap and trade. It’s a way for industries to keep on producing emissions, while buying credits. In my opinion, it’ll create a vast market with much money to be made, selling pieces of paper. (See credit default swaps). If we want to cut emissions, which I’m not opposed to, why not pass regulation,s as to what emissions can be and fine the hell out of those who aren’t in compliance? Do we really need another shell game, where people can make tons of money, swapping pieces of paper? And wouldn’t this just allow polluters to “buy” their way out of compliance?
As usual, that properly ain’t the popular way of looking at it but it’s my way.
md
December 16th, 2010
3:58 pm
I thought there was a separation of church and State, yet this religion is preached openly by those on the left as gospel………..always in the eyes of the beholder.
Keep up the good fight!
December 16th, 2010
3:59 pm
Hillbilly…Certainly I understand your position. You may want to see my 3:52 for an general overview of rather than just setting a cap for everyone, the attempt is a market based solution. Of course those buying credits when others in their same industry are not are at an intentional competitive disadvantage.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
3:59 pm
keep, doggone
Again, thanks…I’m getting an education here…appreciate it…
mark…
There is something to what you say about dropping the editorials…
doggone
I disagree that newspapers should not be doing editorials…it is an entrenched and fundamental part of the raison d’etre of print journalism…it’s when they carry over the editorial stance into the news pages that I begin the have a problem…
The AJC, in my opinion, crossed that line sometime back whereas those papers outside the perimeter were more traditional…
JKL2
December 16th, 2010
3:59 pm
Jay-
Thanks for your faux interest in Republican presiditial nominees. I guess I missed the part about Huckabee driving the Republicans. I thought Michael Steele was still the RNC Chairman?
I am still trying to figure out how leaving tax rates the same is considered a tax cut for the rich that will magically create jobs by all the Demwits on here?
ty webb
December 16th, 2010
4:00 pm
“problem is, CONGRESS refuses to fund that shut-down.”
Leaders lead(for better or worse). They especially lead when they got majorities in both houses. I know…”Party of No”, yada yada yada. But maybe…just maybe “we aren’t the ones we’ve been waiting for”.
Adam
December 16th, 2010
4:00 pm
Doggone: You beat me to it with the Gitmo rant. Well done.
Del
December 16th, 2010
4:00 pm
O.T. Talk about incompetency.
http://michellemalkin.com/2010/12/16/panic-house-dems-yank-tax-deal-rule-off-floor/
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
4:01 pm
Hillbilly
Your opinion, as always, is valued and considered…thanks.
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
4:02 pm
Doggone, I agree with your take on editorials….the thing I liked about them, though, was usually there was an op-ed so I got both sides of the argument.
md
December 16th, 2010
4:03 pm
“A cap is set on carbon emissions as a result of manufacturing and production. Those companies that are below the cap can “sell” their unused volume to those that are over. Those companies that are over can buy additional volume or they can invest to reduce their emissions.”
So…….end result is zero change??????? Why bother…………
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 16th, 2010
4:04 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight
I understand your position, but I disagree with it. It strikes me as more of everybody not being treated the same. A small business might not have the capital to buy credits, that a large one would. So they’d be at a disadvantage, even more than they would be just because they are smaller to begin with. I don’t just hold this view on cap and trade. I’m basically against all kinds of tax credits and breaks. Let’s just level the playing field. If one person or company gets a credit or break, then some other person or company somewhere is at a disadvantage because of it.
Adam
December 16th, 2010
4:04 pm
ty webb: Leaders lead, and sometimes an obstinate few refuse to follow. And apparently Senate rules allow them to do that AND stop the government from working. Those Senate rules are about to change. At that point you may see some more of what you erroneously call “leadership.”
As for cap and trade, it creates a market based on nothing but made up stuff. That means it’s susceptible to fraud and can actually lead to creating a WORSE problem than simply capping emissions.
I'm Regular
December 16th, 2010
4:04 pm
If one of the Republican presidential FOX regulars were to win the White House, would that mean that FOX would have exclusivity over the White House too.
JKL2
December 16th, 2010
4:05 pm
Hillbilly- And wouldn’t this just allow polluters to “buy” their way out of compliance?
Better hope Al Gore doesn’t find out about this or he’ll have Clinton put a hit out on you. They already closed his phony market for buying “air” from third world countries.
Jefferson
December 16th, 2010
4:05 pm
I’d like to cap and trade gasoline. Tell the aye-rabs this is all we will import this year. Let them fight for our business. Drive a ecomomy car, you can sell your gas credits to the soccer moms in the Suberban with one kid riding. If you want to waste gas fine, let americans make the money on your wasteful ways instead of driving the price up for all consermers, plus the suppliers will have to decide how bad they want the business.
ty webb
December 16th, 2010
4:08 pm
“an obstinate few refuse to follow.”
and who would that be, Adam?
carlosgvv
December 16th, 2010
4:09 pm
There is no doubt whatsoever who is driving the Republican train. Big Business is firmly at the controls and has beeen for some time. It is a sweetheart deal for the Republicans because they get tons of money for elections and re-elections. Big Business, in return, gets puppets in the House and Senate who vote exactly as they are told to.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
4:10 pm
Regular
Of the few times I’ve tuned in to the Huckabee show, I’ve been somewhat impressed with not only his choice of guests “from the other side” and his gentlemanly demeanor, courtesy and dignity.
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
4:10 pm
By the way, Tim there is a weekly magazine called “The Week”. It is also online, I think. It captures the top editorials and news stories of the week and reprints them. It always shows both sides of the argument. I have seen Jay and CT’s articles in it occasionally, along with the opposing points of view. Great way to keep up with business, arts food, politics, etc. and get reprints from the AJC to Washington Post, to anybody else you can name. Also shows the best political cartoons from all over the country. I recommend it to everybody here with our interest in politics, etc….
Adam
December 16th, 2010
4:10 pm
a cap and trade on gas already exists in your scenario. The people driving gas guzzlers have to pay more to get their gas.
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 16th, 2010
4:11 pm
JKL2
I’ve never met ‘ol Bill but I suspect if he and I were to sit down and talk, we’d probably get along fine, as long as we didn’t talk about politics. Not sure I’d get on with Al, though.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
4:12 pm
carlos
@ 4:08
Agreed. And much the same can be said of the Democrats.
jm
December 16th, 2010
4:12 pm
No one’s driving the train. Its politics.
“but yes indeedy he did” I got a good laugh out of that….
Of course, saying people should report is different than saying there should be an actual cap. However, his statement was obviously a prelude to implementing a full cap-trade system as he states.
Whatever. A carbon tax would be far better than cap and trade, as far as CO2 goes.
Matti
December 16th, 2010
4:13 pm
JLK2,
Michael Steele gave an insightful interview yesterday about why he’s running again to be RNC Chairman.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-december-15-2010/the-great-gaffesby
The fun begins 2:12 into the video.
Keep up the good fight!
December 16th, 2010
4:13 pm
md, the purpose again is that caps may be lowered over time. Even if set at current emissions level today, add a plant and you have to effectively reduce.
Hillbilly, the market solution allows a small business that cannot afford a million dollar scrubber for its small emission that exceed their cap to buy at a market price the additional credits needed. Just saying that no plant can exceed say, 1000 parts in 10 million (which is the older method of regulation) does give an advantage at times to the larger companies with deeper pockets even though the smaller business may be more efficient. Again, this in concept is a smarter regulation method to help small business compete and actually may be able to move quicker than a manufacturer with very large plants.
RAPbama
December 16th, 2010
4:13 pm
Cap and Trade is based on idea that human CO2 emissions are to blame. We humans emit only about 2-5% of the CO2, at most. The rest comes from natural sources. Yes, thermometer readings are up. Those things don’t have an agenda.
Cap and Trade, in this economic time, is as dead as dead can get.
As far as Republicans go, they are a mismash of reactionists, with no vision for the country at all. At least the Dem’s tried on health care. The Republicans can only favor, not the rich, it’s worse than that. They favor the ultra wealthy. That top 1% that controls 50% of our wealth and then tries to stay as quiet as possible. It’s time gross accumlation of wealth was taxed, not incomes. Incomes are so middle class and the middle class is so passe’.
larry
December 16th, 2010
4:13 pm
http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/deal-state-government-workforce-778417.html
Yep, that is a good way to handle the high unemployment problem in the state, make it higher.
I feel sorry for the people who voted for this clown.
Ms. Yates, please do your duty and indict him and Cagle before its too late.
jm
December 16th, 2010
4:14 pm
Oh, one other thing. Spurring innovation would be far better than cap-trade or carbon tax. Someone should hang out a $3 Billion prize for the company that can mass produce solar cells that produce at $1/watt efficiency….. that would get things going….
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 16th, 2010
4:15 pm
Keep up the good fight
Fair enough. I still disagree, though.
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
4:16 pm
Well I’m surprised that the next candidate for Vice
President on the republican ticket with running mate
Mitt Romney has been unable to explain his position
on cap and trade in an understandable manner to democratic
sympathizers. I’m sure he will request prayer for them
on Sunday.
marky mark
December 16th, 2010
4:16 pm
re: Oaky Woods…..new story just posted here online…
“Republican leaders of the State Senate sent the State Properties Commission a letter asking them to delay their decision to spend $28.7 million in taxpayer money on 10,015 acres of Oaky Woods.”
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
December 16th, 2010
4:18 pm
Well, make fun of the Rev. Huckabee all you want, but you’ll change your tune when he makes his swearing-in speech and then straps on the bass fiddle to back up the Marine Corps band.
Have a good p.m. everybody.
md
December 16th, 2010
4:19 pm
“Even if set at current emissions level today, add a plant and you have to effectively reduce. ”
Yes, by buying unused credits………..still with an end result of zero. Both companies are still pumping just as much into the environment but some middle man (Al?) is making a fortune moving pieces around the board.
I'm Regular
December 16th, 2010
4:19 pm
and his gentlemanly demeanor, courtesy and dignity.
Why absoloutely. It is so refreshing to hear someone say “please kiss my derriere,” as opposed to what one might expect from the more common, regular Joe. If only we could convince the Democrats to wear periwigs, life with them would be so much more tolerable, don’t you suppose.
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
4:22 pm
I guess we should allot credits between nations and buy
the right to emit from nations that don’t emit then our
corporations could emit to their heart’s content and the
international community would praise us rather than
denigrate us and ditto for China.
ty webb
December 16th, 2010
4:24 pm
md,
bingo! I wish I could send you a year’s supply of turtle wax.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
4:24 pm
Regular
It has been my experience that the common, regular Joe is far more gentlemanly, polite and courteous than those who presuppose to be somehow their superiors out to inform them…that goes for the left and the right alike. Personally, I find manners to not be as outdated as some would. I guess I’m just an old fashioned left wing liberal…
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2010
4:27 pm
“It does make you wonder who’s driving the Republican train, leaving people such as Huckabee and Gingrich scrambling to keep up.”
A profound question. Thank you for presenting it.
md
December 16th, 2010
4:27 pm
“I guess we should allot credits between nations and buy
the right to emit from nations that don’t emit then our
corporations could emit to their heart’s content”
I wouldn’t be surprised if a “trading” party hasn’t already scoped out the dirt hut factories of backwoods planet earth just for that reason. Too much money already invested in “cap and trade Investment Companies” for something not to happen. I’m sure their lobbyists are none too happy that the dems are losing total control on the hill.
Matti
December 16th, 2010
4:27 pm
Keep up the Good Fight @ 4:13,
I believe that enabling small businesses to have more equal footing with big business is the very aspect of Cap and Trade that drives its opposition. While the “anti-leftist” conservative forces claim they are reacting to overreaching government regulation based on “junk science” delivered in some vast conspiracy to obtain *gasp* research grants, I think that is merely the cover story. It’s ALWAYS about the money with them, and while they give lip service to being pro free market and pro-small business, everything they support favors the big players (donors) over the small. They feed the big dogs and let them run free, while telling the little dogs that their “leftist leaders” are forcing them to stay on the porch. That’s what it looks like to me.
carlosgvv
December 16th, 2010
4:27 pm
Josef Nix
True, but the Democrats aren’t as open about whose tune they dance to as the Republicans.
Paul
December 16th, 2010
4:28 pm
JKL2 3:39
The first part of your question: “I am still trying to figure out how leaving tax rates the same is considered a tax cut for the rich”
The Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 and the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 both had provisions that the tax rates would revert to the previous rates Jan 1, 2011. Only way to stop that was through new legislation.
So, we had a permanent tax rate system, a temporary rate was put into place. Taking something temporary (the lower rates) and having them become permanent (lower rates) is not exactly leaving them the same. Leaving the system alone would mean the old, higher rates come back into effect. Introducing and passing legislation to have permanent rates (which just happen to be the same as the temporary rates) is another thing altogether.
Hillbilly
Nice, succinct post on reservations about the proposals. Just on the heels of the financial meltdown, I did wonder about the wisdom of letting these same bunch of guys (or those of their mindset) have access to literally trillions of dollars’ worth of new play money -
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
4:29 pm
ty webb
December 16th, 2010
4:24 pm
———————————————
I am pretty sure most turtles don’t like to
be waxed as they are not too hairy to begin with…
Keep up the good fight!
December 16th, 2010
4:29 pm
md… again I did say that levels can be reduced and that even if set at today’s level, with population growth, it would stop the upward trend.
Of course, you could just say, no one can exceed X parts per million and if you exceed that, then you have to do whatever it takes to reduce and if that means you close your business, then so be it.
But you fault Gore for investing in what he believes in and putting his money where his mouth is….isnt’ that just capitalism. Why do you hate America?
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
4:29 pm
carlos
@ 4:27
There is a great deal of truth in what you say…
ty webb
December 16th, 2010
4:30 pm
barking frog,
true…although beaver waxing seems to be a pretty good business to be in.
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2010
4:31 pm
To Josef and Dusty –
Hello brother Josef and sister Dusty.
I claim you both! So I guess that makes the two of you
brother and sister.
Now if I could just work the same “fait accompli” with Fred and Del, I would have accomplished more than Marley did with Ebenezer. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!
“Sleigh bells ring – are you listening?”
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 16th, 2010
4:32 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe
I agree that the smaller manufacturers would be at a disadvantage (as manufacturers will probably be the worst of the carbon offenders).
But who will monitor the Communist countries on this? Or countries like India?
Is there free and open travel through those countries?
The US will then be at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to manufacturing (as if we aren’t in the hole already).
The only thing I can think of is that if a country doesn’t agree to impartial monitoring then trade tariffs need to be put into place until compliance.
On the one hand China has a very strong blue-collar workforce that could possibly rebel if the factories were shut down.
Add to that (at this time) there is a huge population of recent college graduates that cannot find a job that pays as well as a blue-collar job and maybe (just maybe) China is on the cusp of another revolution.
md
December 16th, 2010
4:33 pm
“Personally, I find manners to not be as outdated as some would. I guess I’m just an old fashioned left wing liberal…”
One doesn’t have to be an “old fashioned left wing liberal” to agree with that statement………………
I find it sad that so many don’t even look behind them when going through doors these days……..of course I’m an ass when the door slams in my face and always tell them “thank you” in a rather loud voice once I’m through the door myself.
RAPbama
December 16th, 2010
4:34 pm
I think that the time of partisan politics is at an end. As my Harvard lawyer cousin says, “The Constitution did not anticipate the two party system.” All this rancor does nothing and just adds to natural problems an evolving society will have. We need independant lawmakers. Parties should be outlawed, very nicely of course.
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
4:34 pm
ty webb
December 16th, 2010
4:30 pm
barking frog,
true…although beaver waxing seems to be a pretty good business to be in.
—————————-
I guess waxing beavers or turtles is ok , but
if you increase emissions please sign up for cap and trade…
jm
December 16th, 2010
4:35 pm
Nouriel Roubini is a retard.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
4:36 pm
Mary Elizabeth
And a cheery good p.m. to you. I always have had the special warm spot in my heart for Sister Dusty and now for you as well! I kinda like Fred and Del both, too. A lot of testosterone running about, but, boys will be boys…
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
4:37 pm
“And wouldn’t this just allow polluters to “buy” their way out of compliance?”
Not if you keep reducing the number of “stocks” that are available to buy. What cap-and-trade does is give an incentive to reduce emissions, because the company can then make back some, or all, of the cost by selling the “stocks” they no longer need.
It is, and is meant to be, a MARKET based system. Regulation on the other hand, brings in the need for inspections and lawsuits against violators, all that stuff that can make it easy for a big pocketed company to postpone making needed changes.
md
December 16th, 2010
4:38 pm
“But you fault Gore for investing in what he believes in and putting his money where his mouth is….isnt’ that just capitalism.”
Didn’t Martha go to jail for the same thing Al is basically doing??
Insider trading is insider trading……….I guess it depends on the angle one is looking at it.
Didn’t we just go through a big bru ha ha about politicians enriching themselves through public service?? Al has done the same………positioned himself from the inside out.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
4:41 pm
md
“One doesn’t have to be an “old fashioned left wing liberal” to agree with that statement………………”
Much agreed…just because we may disagree is no reason to be rude and vulgar.
Matti
December 16th, 2010
4:41 pm
Mary Elizabeth,
Those aren’t sleigh bells; they’re emergency response vehicles.
jt
December 16th, 2010
4:41 pm
Where’s SoCo?
By Christian Boone
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
A U.S. Customs agent from Stockbridge faces charges of helping smuggle guns and drug money through Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, federal officials announced Thursday.
Scout
December 16th, 2010
4:43 pm
Jay:
You’re “whistling in the dark” again. The second wave of the backlash is coming. Might as well ride it to shore.
md
December 16th, 2010
4:43 pm
“What cap-and-trade does is give an incentive to reduce emissions, because the company can then make back some, or all, of the cost by selling the “stocks” they no longer need.”
And I’m guessing that in the real world, the companies just write it off as an expense and pass it on to the consumer like they always do…………….
Mike Huckabee
December 16th, 2010
4:43 pm
As Joe Walsh once said, “Vote for Me.” I know I’m too nice to be president, but don’t let that stop you. America needs a good lead player and I’m the closest thing there is. A good bass player will do, if Joe doesn’t want to run.
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 16th, 2010
4:43 pm
Common Sense
I have a feeling China is going to do what they think is best for them and they don’t really care what anybody else does, including us.
Paul
December 16th, 2010
4:45 pm
Still no ideas on who’s pulling the strings to cause the Republican Party to veer hard right in so short a time?
RW-(the original)
December 16th, 2010
4:46 pm
About that Al Gore connection
R.I.P.: Al Gore’s Chicago Climate Exchange Has Died
Global warming-inspired cap and trade has been one of the most stridently debated public policy controversies of the past 15 years. But it is dying a quiet death. In a little reported move, the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX) announced on Oct. 21 that it will be ending carbon trading – the only purpose for which it was founded – this year.
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
4:46 pm
Mary Elizabeth, after our conversation about unity through
diversity, I read that President Obama was acclaiming the
same philosophy. Is it possible that you may have influenced
him since you discovered it at an early age?
Bill Hilly
December 16th, 2010
4:46 pm
China will do what is best for them, regardless of what they think.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
4:46 pm
jt
Where to?
jm
December 16th, 2010
4:47 pm
wheeee. state job cuts. probably overdue although I have no way of knowing one way or the other for sure. gut instinct says there’s fat.
md
December 16th, 2010
4:47 pm
If I recall, on the world stage, cap and trade will apply only to the “developed” countries. This is where those dreaded definitions come into play……..that means China and India and all the other “developing” countries get different rules…………..
JDW
December 16th, 2010
4:48 pm
@ Hillbilly,
I think you are right when you say that cap and trade is a way for industries to keep on producing emissions and there would certainly be money to be made there.
I tend towards it as a solution because you can regulate emissions at the macro level while using market forces to add the proper costs to those industries that choose to pollute. As for the money part, yes it will feed a few bloodsuckers, but on the flip side we could tax those profits and tap a new source of funding.
I think the problem with creating regulation as opposed to a market is writing and enforcing it effectively across the entire business community. Businesses understand costs so that would be easier for them to digest than regulations.
Just my 2 cents
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
4:49 pm
“And I’m guessing that in the real world, the companies just write it off as an expense and pass it on to the consumer like they always do”
Some will, certainly. But those who are large polluters, in particular, stand to be able to make serious improvements and the recoup some, or all, of the cost of those improvements by selling their credits.
Jay
December 16th, 2010
4:49 pm
It’s better to whistle in the dark, Scout. It’s usually quieter, and that facilitates a greater appreciation of the finer tonal qualities of the music.
AmVet
December 16th, 2010
4:49 pm
Voluntary cap & trade?????
Is that part of the idiotic right-wing concept of let the free-market police itself?
And of course that is exactly what BP, Transocean and Haliburton did vis a vis the Deepwater horizon debacle.
And exactly what Goldman Sachs and AIG among many others did during the attempted corporate destruction of capitalism in 2008.
It’s a good thing you boys ain’t chicken farmers who, would for a couple of extra dollars, let the foxes guard your hen houses.
And then b!tch when 3,000,000,000,000 of your hens went “missing” and then blame the police…
Fletch
December 16th, 2010
4:49 pm
It doesn’t surprise me that a politician would, Flip Flop, Spin, Lie, Cheat, Cover Up, Deny, Forget, Back Track etc…..
What I’m always amazed at are that people that will continually run out to support and defend them.
JDW
December 16th, 2010
4:49 pm
Enter your comd
December 16th, 2010
4:47 pm
“If I recall, on the world stage, cap and trade will apply only to the “developed” countries. This is where those dreaded definitions come into play……..that means China and India and all the other “developing” countries get different rules…………..”
Each country is making its own rules…a global cap and trade would be effective but I don’t think thats happening anytime soon.
jm
December 16th, 2010
4:50 pm
Cap and Trade is bad. Not for trying its intentions. But for the mechanism, corruption, waste, and influence peddling it would generate of its creation.
Carbon Tax would be better because none of this applies to a carbon tax. Better yet, just innovate our way out. Or if there’s a carbon tax, ramp it up, then ramp it down over 20 years.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
4:50 pm
Those who would like to learn more about how cap-and-trade can ACTUALLY work – check into the successful use of cap-and-trade to control sulpher emissions. That’s a practical demonstration of it, as opposed to theoretical speculations.
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2010
4:51 pm
Josef 4:36
You nailed it, Josef, regarding the source of the conflict! Thank you for the good feelings toward yours truly. The feeling is mutual!
Matti 4:41
You nailed it, too, Matti! But sleigh bells lift the soul, not just the body. Hope they hear those “frequencies” I’m trying to send them both with good cheer and wishes.
Just got in from seeing “Secretariat.” I am in love again – with that horse! God love him!
One in a million!
Paul
December 16th, 2010
4:52 pm
Cap n Trade is dead, folks. Dead, dead, dead. And no amount of fundamentalist fervor will resurrect it anytime soon.
Don’t ANY of the cons here have any idea what caused the seismic shift in the Republican Party?
AmVet
December 16th, 2010
4:52 pm
Yep, we live in a new hell (of a world).
The Democrats trot out these goofy “changes” that often exacerbate the problems and the Do Nothings advocate that living up to their name and letting things get constantly worse, is a better “solution”.
As both work for the exact same paymasters, is it any wonder?
Scout
December 16th, 2010
4:53 pm
Jay:
I prefer to shine a light in the dark. It makes the “undesirables” slither back under the rocks.
jm
December 16th, 2010
4:53 pm
Doggone 4:50 – yes, sulphur cap trade worked. But a carbon cap/trade is such an order of magnitude larger and so expansive, that it is hardly the same thing.
A carbon tax would be far, far better than cap and trade, for CO2.
Union
December 16th, 2010
4:53 pm
what was that whole cap and trade scam that the un and some countries were involved in not too long ago?
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
4:55 pm
Scout
December 16th, 2010
4:53 pm
——————————-
Hey Scout, how’s the puppies?
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2010
4:55 pm
sfd.. do you think the anti obama rant by the dems will slow down soon? i was wondering the same thing.. if they extend the tax cuts.. then someone from within the democratic party may challenge him on just that issue alone?
I can’t speak for all or even most of my fellow ranters. I can say though that from what I’ve heard, the real concerns aren’t so much the tax rate deal alone, but what it portends for battles ahead next year. Football analogies aside (“he must’ve thought this was the CFL, he punted on third down!”) and worries over things like a ginned-up battle over raising the debt ceiling, I’ll leave to others. I just expect Obama to go to the wall on Social Security; if he can’t do that, that’s probably where I say adios.
AmVet
December 16th, 2010
4:56 pm
jm @4:50, you are THE man!
I was wondering if I would live long enough to see someone posit that!
I’ve dropped countless hints to the neo-cons about what is happening in British Columbia, but asking them to read up on that would be like asking Sarah P. to read a newspaper…
Fletch
December 16th, 2010
4:56 pm
You can insert either party into the following scenario.
_______: Are firmly committed to a cleaner healthier America with low taxes and good paying jobs for all.
Big Money: We cannot support that kind of platform and will immediately withdraw financial support of any candidate who promotes it.
_______: Are firmly against any platform that may have negative consequences for those who provide economic growth and opportunities for all Americans.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
4:57 pm
“But a carbon cap/trade is such an order of magnitude larger and so expansive, that it is hardly the same thing.”
Size doesn’t make a bit of difference. It works the same regardless.
JDW
December 16th, 2010
4:58 pm
jm
December 16th, 2010
4:53 pm
“A carbon tax would be far, far better than cap and trade, for CO2.”
Now you have gone off and used the “T” word
…thats going to rile the R’s.
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
4:58 pm
Paul
December 16th, 2010
4:52 pm
—————————————
in order to determine if there is a seismic shift you
have to determine which end of the spectrum is the
true position, or if either is…..
Scout
December 16th, 2010
4:59 pm
barking frog:
4 months old this week and growing like weeds. Lot’s of work but lot’s of fun too.
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
4:59 pm
Size doesn’t make a bit of difference. It works the same regardless.
—————————————————-
Glad someone else agrees with me…….
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2010
4:59 pm
Wow, that’s almost as bad as “I will shut down Guantanamo Bay within one year”.
lil’ B, I am deeply sorry that you did not get the closure that you didn’t vote for in 2008.
RAPbama
December 16th, 2010
5:00 pm
Cap and Trade is based on scientific conjecture and much of that conjecture is meant to advance careers. If you absolutely believe CO2 levels are a leading indicator of temp rises, the ice cores argue against you. By about 80 years for each warming episode in the last three warming cycles. I have the plots of the data, from a recent conference of engineers. Temps start to rise 80 years before CO2 levels rise, per the ice cores. Excuse me for sticking to the facts, if they are not expedient for advancing a cause.
Scout
December 16th, 2010
5:00 pm
Question to ponder:
Why didn’t Native-Americans build ships and discover Europe ?
JDW
December 16th, 2010
5:00 pm
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
4:59 pm
“Size doesn’t make a bit of difference. It works the same regardless.”
Thats what I keep saying….
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
5:01 pm
Scout
December 16th, 2010
4:59 pm
—————————-
just about time for everything to get chewed….
Fletch
December 16th, 2010
5:01 pm
Scout – “Why didn’t Native-Americans build ships and discover Europe ?”
Because they were smart.
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2010
5:02 pm
barking frog 4:46
How nice. Many throughout the world “see” with the same vision. Paulo shared with me Bob Marley’s song, “One Love” a few weeks back, and now that son is central on my blog. One of my early entries.
Check out “Mary Elizabeth Sings” sometimes and join the movement!
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2010
5:05 pm
Oh, and I did run the 2007 MH video, didn’t hear anything about the cap and trade being voluntary in this 5 minute segment, anyway.
Keep up the good fight!
December 16th, 2010
5:06 pm
Scout… how do you discover a land that is already populated? And who is to say that native americans did not travel at some point to Europe….we only recently discovered some of the extensive travel by the Chinese and the Vikings.
My theory…they did “discover” Europe, realized that it was filled with vermin and disease and blocked it out of their minds…only to have the vermin and disease come here and killed and steal all their land and wealth…
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
5:06 pm
Scout
I asked your question of Unmentionable. His answer, “when you’ve got everything you could want or need here, why go looking elsewhere?”
JDW
December 16th, 2010
5:07 pm
Rapbama…”CO2 levels are a leading indicator of temp rises”
Oh Jezzsh…What the science says…
When the Earth comes out of an ice age, the warming is not initiated by CO2 but by changes in the Earth’s orbit. The warming causes the oceans to give up CO2. The CO2 amplifies the warming and mixes through the atmosphere, spreading warming throughout the planet. So CO2 causes warming AND rising temperature causes CO2 rise.
Please note the phenomenon you describe occurs as we come out of an Ice Age…not what is happening now.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm
Did you know the 18 hottest years on record occurred over the last 20 years…exceptions were 1987 and 1983.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/12/climate_change
Do you see a trend?
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
5:07 pm
Scout
December 16th, 2010
5:00 pm
Question to ponder:
Why didn’t Native-Americans build ships and discover Europe ?
———————————————————————————————-
Easy. They weren’t greedy.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
5:08 pm
Scout…
Prince Maddox ring a bell?
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
5:08 pm
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2010
5:02 pm
—————————————–
Will do.
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
5:09 pm
barking frog…
Weren’t greedy, eh? Tell that to those who were here in North Georgia when the Cherokee came in!
Paul
December 16th, 2010
5:09 pm
barking frog
“In order to determine if there is a seismic shift you
have to determine which end of the spectrum is the
true position, or if either is…..”
Why? Either there was a major shift in the Republican Party or there wasn’t. If one views the ‘before’ or ‘after’ as “True” doesn’t matter. Evidence is pretty clear – Republican Party has changed position on major issues in a very short period of time.
Question is, why?
And who’s behind it?
Jackie
December 16th, 2010
5:10 pm
The so-called conservatives position when they find out their knickers are in a knot; CONFLATE, OBFUSCATE, EXTRAPOLATE!!!!
Scout
December 16th, 2010
5:11 pm
barking frog:
Oh yes, have to watch them constantly !
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
5:12 pm
PAUL
Who’s behind it….the Cabal of International Zionist Bankers…don’t you know nuthin?
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 16th, 2010
5:12 pm
AmVet@4:49 pm
And then b!tch when 3,000,000,000,000 of your hens went “missing” and then blame the police…
——————
No That’s me I’m going to corner the market in chickens anyone for a barter. LOL
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:13 pm
Doggone 4:57 – wrong. Sulfur emmissions were really only a power plant issue. CO2 is EVERYWHEEERE. And the sheer size of it creates huge enforcement and corruption issues…. but believe what you want.
I mean, Mini Me fits in a Smart Car. Shouldn’t Andre the Giant drive one?
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2010
5:15 pm
About native Americans’ lack of long-range naval exploration, my half-baked answer–probably for the same reason they didn’t develop wheeled transport. Lack of pressing need. (And a lack of marauding, very very very different cultures from other continents coming in and challenging your turf, one imagines. at least not to the degree that the Europeans experienced.)
josef nix
December 16th, 2010
5:15 pm
Hillbilly
Common sense @ 5:12…uh-oh, looks like we’ve got some competition trying to muscle in on our territory…
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2010
5:17 pm
barking frog 5:08
Thanks much for the interest, barking frog. It would be better to start at the beginning, Nov. 22, 2010, and work forward. The present posts are a little more “heavy” – just at the moment. But life is a process and without the rain, there are no later rainbows to enjoy!
My earlier posts celebrate “unity through diversity.” Hope you enjoy!
Scout
December 16th, 2010
5:17 pm
Why didn’t Native-Americans build ships and discover Europe?
Because they wanted their casino’s over here !
Del
December 16th, 2010
5:18 pm
Hey Scout, Haven’t seen you around for awhile…thought you may have re-enlisted.
Southern Comfort
December 16th, 2010
5:18 pm
jt
Thanks for your concern… I’m here.
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 16th, 2010
5:18 pm
Why didn’t Native-Americans build ships and discover Europe ?
Sometimes, people are perfectly content, right where they are.
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:19 pm
FACT CHECK
US SO2 Market: Originally 17 million tons
US CO2 Market: Over 6 BILLION tons
Think there’s not a difference here? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm think folks. use the neurons. they’re there. just maybe dormant.
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 16th, 2010
5:19 pm
josef
As long as we’ve got hens and a rooster or two, nobody can keep us out of the chicken market.
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:20 pm
HD 5:18
– Yeah. I think I’d have preferred 17th century US over 17th Century Europe too….
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
5:20 pm
Paul
December 16th, 2010
5:09 pm
—————————————————-
If it’s only the change that matters then the
cause could possibly be hope…to win again..
Obama stole their healthcare, tax cutting, and war…
not much left but hope…
USMC dawg
December 16th, 2010
5:20 pm
John Edwards says no he didn’t, but yes indeedy he did…
Keep up the good fight!
December 16th, 2010
5:23 pm
CAPbama….of course you have the facts….and we all wait for you to post a link to your scientific credentials.
Meanwhile back in the real world:
The American Geophysical Union (AGU) statement, adopted by the society in 2003 and revised in 2007, affirms that rising levels of greenhouse gases have caused and will continue to cause the global surface temperature to be warmer: The Earth’s climate is now clearly out of balance and is warming. Many components of the climate system—including the temperatures of the atmosphere, land and ocean, the extent of sea ice and mountain glaciers, the sea level, the distribution of precipitation, and the length of seasons—are now changing at rates and in patterns that are not natural and are best explained by the increased atmospheric abundances of greenhouse gases and aerosols generated by human activity during the 20th century. Global average surface temperatures increased on average by about 0.6°C over the period 1956–2006. As of 2006, eleven of the previous twelve years were warmer than any others since 1850. The observed rapid retreat of Arctic sea ice is expected to continue and lead to the disappearance of summertime ice within this century. Evidence from most oceans and all continents except Antarctica shows warming attributable to human activities. Recent changes in many physical and biological systems are linked with this regional climate change. A sustained research effort, involving many AGU members and summarized in the 2007 assessments of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, continues to improve our scientific understanding of the climate.
Even the AAPG only says these COULD be natural and MAY not as bad as predicted by some models (not a very definitive response)
As of June 2007, the American Association of Petroleum Geologists (AAPG) Position Statement on climate change stated:
the AAPG membership is divided on the degree of influence that anthropogenic CO2 has on recent and potential global temperature increases … Certain climate simulation models predict that the warming trend will continue, as reported through NAS, AGU, AAAS and AMS. AAPG respects these scientific opinions but wants to add that the current climate warming projections could fall within well-documented natural variations in past climate and observed temperature data. These data do not necessarily support the maximum case scenarios forecast in some models
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 16th, 2010
5:23 pm
Note to self. Steal HD’s chickens and leave the roosters, that will teach him LOL
RW-(the original)
December 16th, 2010
5:23 pm
Question is, why?
Hopefully it’s because they started listening to their constituents
And who’s behind it?
See above
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:24 pm
Clinton didn’t. Before he did…. or should I say, Clinton wasn’t, before he was.
Robespierre
December 16th, 2010
5:25 pm
No one is driving the Repudlickan train. It’s just the caboose pulling the conservative engine filled with coal mine opportunists and others railing against everything which is impeding Obama’s administration, because they have no platform of their own.
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:26 pm
What was, was?
Del
December 16th, 2010
5:26 pm
Bil Clinton said no he didn’t, but yes indeedy he did.
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:26 pm
Robespierre’s – At the bottom of Obama’s platform is an empty swimming pool.
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:28 pm
Kerry was, before he wasn’t….
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
5:29 pm
@Paul, conspiratorially, what the Koch Bros.
did with the tea party probably scared some
moderates rightward but I don’t think it will
have a lasting effect..much bigger money
out there…
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:30 pm
Can someone please raise the gas tax? So we can pay for our stupid roads so that they don’t collapse. And so we can relieve some traffic congestion around this god forsaken state…..
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:30 pm
Koch gives to PBS. PBS must be evil….
Del
December 16th, 2010
5:30 pm
Al Gore said he invented the internet but yes indeedy he didn’t.
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:31 pm
Del – although he did help finance with a little taxpayer $$. I think it was money well spent in hindsight.
AmVet
December 16th, 2010
5:32 pm
It is exceptionally difficult for ANYONE to drive the Republican train after George (sans all that heroic folk hero status) did a Casey Jones on it…
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2010
5:33 pm
“CO2 is EVERYWHEEERE. And the sheer size of it creates huge enforcement and corruption issues…. but believe what you want”
But cap-and-trade for CO2 is not aimed, nor meant, for the little guy. It’s aimed at the REALLY big polluters…just as was sulpher cap-and-trade.
But just think how much money I could make with MY cap-and-trade allowance by selling them to others who want to drink more sodas!
Southern Comfort
December 16th, 2010
5:33 pm
Can someone please raise the gas tax? So we can pay for our stupid roads so that they don’t collapse. And so we can relieve some traffic congestion around this god forsaken state…..
Republicans don’t raise taxes, Period!! Relax and enjoy you gridlock. Buy you an iPad. You can’t text while driving, but there’s no law against surfing the net or watching a movie. You know if there wasn’t enough staffing to de-ice the roads last night and they’re already talking about cutting more state employees, we’ll soon be fixing those roads ourselves.
barking frog
December 16th, 2010
5:34 pm
AmVet
December 16th, 2010
5:32 pm
———————————–
yes indeedy he did…
AmVet
December 16th, 2010
5:34 pm
Del, tsk, tsk, tsk…
Claim: Vice-President Al Gore claimed that he “invented” the Internet.
Status: False.
Origins: Despite the derisive references that continue even today, Al Gore did not claim he “invented” the Internet, nor did he say anything that could reasonably be interpreted that way. The “Al Gore said he ‘invented’ the Internet” put-downs were misleading, out-of-context distortions of something he said during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN’s “Late Edition” program on 9 March 1999. When asked to describe what distinguished him from his challenger for the Democratic presidential nomination, Senator Bill Bradley of New Jersey, Gore replied (in part):
During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country’s economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.
Clearly, although Gore’s phrasing might have been a bit clumsy (and perhaps self-serving), he was not claiming that he “invented” the Internet (in the sense of having designed or implemented it), but that he was responsible, in an economic and legislative sense, for fostering the development the technology that we now know as the Internet.
To claim that Gore was seriously trying to take credit for the “invention” of the Internet is, frankly, just silly political posturing that arose out of a close presidential campaign. Gore never used the word “invent,” and the words “create” and “invent” have distinctly different meanings — the former is used in the sense of “to bring about” or “to bring into existence” while the latter is generally used to signify the first instance of someone’s thinking up or implementing an idea. (To those who say the words “create” and “invent” mean exactly the same thing, we have to ask why, then, the media overwhelmingly and consistently cited Gore as having claimed he “invented” the Internet, even though he never used that word, and transcripts of what he actually said were readily available.)
Del
December 16th, 2010
5:36 pm
jm, old Al’s laying low these days. He hates these cold winters.
USMC dawg
December 16th, 2010
5:37 pm
Barney Frank says no he didn’t, but yes indeedy he did too…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE
Scout
December 16th, 2010
5:37 pm
Del:
My computer has really been acting up. I think the libs. on here hacked it.
Anyway, Santa says I’m getting a new one for Christmas so I’ll soon be in full swing again! Sorry Jay.
I’m at the library so off for the day. Be nice to each other.
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:37 pm
Doggone – Cap and Trade as proposed was also targeted at gasoline. Nothing was immune.
Now the new EPA rules being written, different story. There they are targeting the big single point source polluters – mainly the power plants, concrete plants.
Good luck building a building in 10 years when they do this.
Anyone else see that the US now wants the rare earth mines reopened because China now controls 90% of the rare earths market? Well, want to know why the mines shut down?
Crazy bipolar, ignorant, g-damn government.
“On top of that, the Mountain Pass Mine came under fire from state and federal regulators for a series of mine waste spills. Over the course of ten years, thousands of gallons of waste from the Mountain Pass Mine spilled from holding ponds and waste pipelines, according to reports. The waste included thorium, a radioactive byproduct of REE mining.
Mining at Mountain Pass stopped soon after the spills came to light. Industry sources say Union Oil of California, which bought Molycorp in 1977, couldn’t afford to comply with environmental rules and felt that it couldn’t compete with China. In 2002, the company did not renew a permit to store tailing, the uranium and thorium waste that is a byproduct of REE mining, and the Mountain Pass Mine shut down.”
hahahhaaha!!!!!
December 16th, 2010
5:37 pm
Kinda like how every prominent Democrat leader during the 90’s and early 2000’s all said Saddam should be taken out? LOL, you are a hoot Jay!!
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2010
5:37 pm
he did help finance with a little taxpayer $$. I think it was money well spent in hindsight.
why, one might even say that he took the initiative in creating the internet, during his service in Congress.
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:38 pm
SoCo 5:33 – looking forward to robotic cars in 2020….
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 16th, 2010
5:38 pm
They’ve been building roads in Georgia as far back as I can remember. Everytime they build one, more people come to fill them up. I even remember when the Downtown Connector was going to be the be-all, end-all, to all Atlanta’s traffic woes.
RAPbama
December 16th, 2010
5:40 pm
Keep up the good fight!.
I am registered professional engineer: Florida # 49407, Alabama # 12150. That requires a scientific education, approved experience by the licensing board, and very rigorous testing. There are only about 300,000 of us in the U.S. We sign off on the all major structures, buildings and bridges, just to let you know.
What is your scientfic background? Give me your e-mail, and I will scan the plots in and send them to you. Data is what counts. Just the facts.
Del
December 16th, 2010
5:41 pm
AmVet, “Clearly, although Gore’s phrasing might have been a bit clumsy (and perhaps self-serving)” just a bit!
Adam
December 16th, 2010
5:42 pm
dB: lol
Southern Comfort
December 16th, 2010
5:43 pm
HD
The big problem arises when it comes time for maintenance. Before too long, our roads and bridges will be at a point where it will no longer be cost effective to repair them and our only option will be replacement. With continued budget cuts and no alternate funding streams, we won’t be able to afford that when that time comes. What industry will want to locate to a place that lacks basic infrastructure?
Jefferson
December 16th, 2010
5:43 pm
Adam, you are not getting what I mean about the gasoline cap & trade. I would limit supply based on a good average MPG, it you waste gas by driving a land yaght you will not have enought without buying from an economy driver or a household that doenn’t drive. The price you pay would not be the same as everyone else, it would be priced by the seller. May be more, may be less. Point is supply from the producers will be limited.
The way it is now where everyone pays the same per gallon, low MPG vehicals are subsidized by fuel efficient vehicals, due to high demand (there is no supply problems) I want to ration gas so to speak to what a resonable amount per family would be, not to what your pocketbook can afford.
What about the price per gallon depends on the mpg the vehical gets — low mpg high price, high mpg, low price. The total dollars for the country is the same.
Think like we are at war and have to pay bills and can’t afford to waste resources. Wait we do have wars going on….,
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:44 pm
Companies may be dumb. But Government is really, really dumb.
Del
December 16th, 2010
5:45 pm
Off to pick up my daughter. Later
AmVet
December 16th, 2010
5:45 pm
Yes, he could trip over his tongue with the best of them. (Until the all time champion and standard bearer, George, came along!)
But the entire misquoting him on that issue makes the right wingers, not Al Gore, look bad.
I had my issues with him and Bill, but when it came to accepting that defeat in 2000, he manned up. And to his credit, he said Nader was NOT to blame. Though many (most?) of the crybaby Dems did, and still do…
jm
December 16th, 2010
5:45 pm
Jefferson 5:43 – that’s one of the crazier plans I’ve heard. Just raise the gas tax. Mission accomplished.
USMC dawg
December 16th, 2010
5:48 pm
John Kerry says no he didn’t, but yes indeedy he did too…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esUTn6L0UDU
Skitty Fritty
December 16th, 2010
5:48 pm
Jefferson:
Your pont of view is scary in my opinion. Who would decide what the typical family uses in gasoline per month? I think your true colors show with the terminology “Land Yacht”.
A
December 16th, 2010
5:50 pm
Huckabee wins Iowa, Romney wins New Hamphsire, and Palin wins South Carolina.
The nominee will be: Romney
Del
December 16th, 2010
5:50 pm
AmVet, tripping over tongue…failing to engage brain before putting mouth in gear. Now you know Joe Biden gets the gold for those. I’m out…again.
AmVet
December 16th, 2010
5:52 pm
Seeya brother Del.
It is funny how VPs and VP candidates seem to really stand out in the malapropism category…
RAPbama
December 16th, 2010
5:52 pm
Does anybody read all the posts here, or just the ones that love/hate you. I see multilple chains. Threads ruined a lot of good sites.
Perhaps, though, as my wife tells me, you are often irrelevant. She has a killer figure and is tight with money, so I always kiss up. Every time. Despite my opinion.
AmVet
December 16th, 2010
5:54 pm
A, very interesting prognosis. It’s hard not to agree…
RAPbama, LOL! You are a wise man…
USMC dawg
December 16th, 2010
5:58 pm
Oh yeah… These Democrats also said no they didn’t, but yes indeedy they did…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnjcofMFHsA
RAPbama
December 16th, 2010
5:58 pm
Enter your comments here
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 16th, 2010
6:00 pm
It is funny how VPs and VP candidates seem to really stand out in the malapropism category…
I believe it’s by design. What better way to keep the heat off yourself, than to get yourself a VP, who constantly says outlandish things, to draw attention? They use him for a diversionary target.
RAPbama
December 16th, 2010
6:01 pm
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And don’t hit return by accident. And cook dinner for your wife at least two times a week, even if I don’t.
RAPbama
December 16th, 2010
6:05 pm
By the way, if Republicans want to win the presidency in 2012, they will have to run someone we don’t know much about at present. Take that to the bank. All they haveat present are hacks and facebook style aspirants.
Adam
December 16th, 2010
6:13 pm
RAPbama: That’s exactly what I was thinking. They can’t run someone we know about, because it’s too easy to dreg up their past.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 16th, 2010
6:15 pm
RAPbama@5:52 pm
LOL. Some here have a hate/hate relationship. But it’s kind of like a car wreck if you don’t pay attention its WTF (where are they coming from).
—————————————-
jm
Re: raising the gas tax. How many small business owners would be put out of business by that? Many rely on vehicles to get to and from jobs sites. Think of the plumbers, HVAC, etc. that might go belly up and lose their income. they aren’t eligible for UI benefits and a lot of them pay their employees on 1099’s. Add those to the TAX burden in the states.
Ga supposedly has one of the lowest gas taxes in the country, but why is the price in Ga. as high as NC which has a high gas tax.
Hillbilly Deluxe
December 16th, 2010
6:21 pm
Ga supposedly has one of the lowest gas taxes in the country, but why is the price in Ga. as high as NC which has a high gas tax.
I don’t know what the tax structure is but I have a sibling who lives in NC, and liquid propane is quite a bit higher here, than up there.
Paul
December 16th, 2010
6:28 pm
been moderated. Let me try splitting and see if it goes thru
barking frog
Like I said, Ludlum has an inside source for his novels’ plots…
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 16th, 2010
6:28 pm
George H.W. Bush and Dan Quayle 2012. Slogan at least they won’t get in the way LOL
Paul
December 16th, 2010
6:29 pm
okay, Scout, you’re the problem!
Hey there, Scout!
“Why didn’t Native-Americans build ships and discover Europe ?”
Read “Past watch (it’s one word but I think written as one may get filter upset): The Redemption of Christopher Columbus” by Orson Scott Card.
You too, josef nix!
Scout
December 17th, 2010
12:08 pm
Paul:
IT WAS A JOKE! You guys are slow to catch on.
Keep up the good fight!
December 18th, 2010
9:20 am
RAPbama….nice try on your post about your license numbers. I guess you are ignorant of the fact that license numbers are public knowledge and can be checked. The two license numbers you posted belong to different people. Of course, a professional structural engineer is not the same qualification as a professional geophysical or similar engineer.