History will record TARP, stimulus as major successes
The much-reviled TARP — that socialistic, hugely expensive, $700 billion monument to foolish government intervention — will end up costing the federal government a grand total of about $25 billion, the Congressional Budget Office now estimates.
Among other things, TARP also happened to save Wall Street from total collapse, prevented a slide into global economic depression and — oh yeah — helped preserve about a million jobs at Chrysler and GM.
No, it wasn’t perfect. Nothing cobbled together in such haste could have been perfect. But history will note two important things about TARP:
1.) It was an enormous economic success story;
2.) Those who guaranteed its failure, bitterly fought its passage and continue to belittle it have somehow managed to turn their opposition into political gold.
Last week, the CBO also released its latest, legally mandated report on the impact of spending programs and tax cuts in President Obama’s equally reviled stimulus package. In the third quarter of 2010, according to the CBO, those policies:
* (R)aised real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic product by between 1.4 percent and 4.1 percent,
* Lowered the unemployment rate by between 0.8 percentage points and 2.0 percentage points,
* Increased the number of people employed by between 1.4 million and 3.6 million, and
* Increased the number of full-time-equivalent (FTE) jobs by 2.0 million to 5.2 million compared with what would have occurred otherwise. (Increases in FTE jobs include shifts from part-time to full-time work or overtime and are thus generally larger than increases in the number of employed workers).
Nobody, including the CBO, is arguing that the economy is strong (although it should be noted that holiday sales are up significantly). However, the evidence is overwhelming that the economic situation today would be far, far worse without policies that it has become politically fashionable to oppose.
In fact, seldom have so many politicians who were so mistaken about so much reaped so much benefit from being flat-out wrong.
Job loss or gain in private industry, by month. Red months mark Bush presidency, blue months mark Obama presidency. Stimulus bill was signed into law in February 2009. Source: Steve Benen at Washington Monthly
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383 comments Add your comment
Left wing management
November 30th, 2010
11:26 am
A man comes along and saves a capitalism in one of its greatest moments of crisis in a century – and gets called a socialist for his troubles.
We need Marx right now. Bad. And Hegel.
R Thomas Berner
November 30th, 2010
11:31 am
I think you’re over-stating holiday sales when you say they are up “significantly.” They are up, but not that much, if I’m understanding the WSJ and CBS News.
Stew Day
November 30th, 2010
11:36 am
As long as you are okay with China owning our debt and all the strings attached–Nothing in this life is for free.
larry
November 30th, 2010
11:43 am
In fact, seldom have so many politicians who were so mistaken about so much reaped so much benefit from being flat-out wrong.
Im wondering if they all ate crow at Thanksgiving.
Don’t most of them have R’s next to their name ?
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
11:44 am
R Thomas – I think it’s predicated on a low base – when you think about how anemic sales have been for the last 3 years, they are percolating along.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
11:47 am
Will Republicans start taking credit for it now?
Paul
November 30th, 2010
11:49 am
Another couple examples of theory and ideology trying to trump reality. Unfortunately, I wonder how many “lessons learned” will be included in future efforts. If the legislation passed so far is any indication… not much.
As far as the stim package, I have to wonder… would the same results have happened if Congressional Democrats had put forth a package closer the the lower numbers proposed by Pres Obama, as Republicans did? We’ll never know.
Matti
November 30th, 2010
11:50 am
It was a successful response to a willful, carefully-crafted step in the process of implementing institutional plutocracy in these Corporate States of America. It buys the common schmoes a little more time, just as allowing (and even helping) the election of Barack Obama afforded us a little more hope and the illusion that we actually have some bit of control that our founding fathers intended. (Although they intended it only for wealthy white men…)
The train is still on the track and barreling toward the intended destination.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
11:51 am
paul – tomato soup link downstairs!
pat
November 30th, 2010
11:51 am
The stimilus was one of the biggest colosal failures in history. Leave it to liberals to tout failures as successes.
You’re no jedi and your mind trick didn’t work.
Mick
November 30th, 2010
11:52 am
We started this millenium with a botched election and a great political divide. The past election has revealed and even deeper chasm between the two political parties. Consensus does not have any place for the ideological politician – it is a sign of weakness. Where will we be ten years from now? Something has got to give…….
pat
November 30th, 2010
11:53 am
For example:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/nov/5/the-anatomy-of-stimulus-failure/
http://patdollard.com/2010/07/stimulus-failure-keynesian-economics-has-proven-itself-false/
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
11:53 am
pat – just cuz you say it doesn’t make it so (jsut like yesterday’s discussion)
pat
November 30th, 2010
11:54 am
http://webgazine.com/Post500022-Obama-Growing-Edgy-Over-Polls-And-Stimulus-Failure.htm
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
11:54 am
pat – 11:53 – you’re confusing the stimulus bill with TARP – 2 different things
pat
November 30th, 2010
11:54 am
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2009/06/14/vp-biden-admits-obama-stimulus-plan-a-failure-on-meet-the-press-everyone-guessed-wrong-on-the-impact-of-the-stimulus-not-everyone-joe/
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
11:54 am
History will record TARP, stimulus as major successes
Not if the Texas Book Commission has their way with it!!!
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
11:56 am
ohmygod, pat – no matter how many links about the stimulus bill you post, it is not the same thing as TARP
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
11:56 am
” you’re confusing the stimulus bill with TARP – 2 different things”
Jay’s headline does mention both, though.
Jefferson
November 30th, 2010
11:57 am
Many were enriched by TARP, many lost jobs, many banks continue to fail. Just because the gov’t got the most of the money back does not solve the problems of non regulation. Yes you may call this operation a success, but the cancer remains.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
11:57 am
“You’re no jedi and your mind trick didn’t work.”
At least not on those without minds…
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
11:57 am
UnU
Somehow, I don’t expect to see anything positive mentioned about Obama in the Washington Times until the day he leaves the White House.
pat
November 30th, 2010
11:57 am
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6727955.html
pat
November 30th, 2010
12:00 pm
The differnce USinUK is that I can prove myu points and you can’t. I am talking about the ARRA, not TARP. TARP was an emergency measure, ARRA was an entitlement program which failed and increased our debt to the moon. Keynes was an idiot, everything he said and theorized is wrong.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:00 pm
SoCo – snowballs in hell … something positive about any Dem in the Washington Times … about equal chance, I think
Mick
November 30th, 2010
12:01 pm
pat
Remember, almost a third of the stimulus went to that great republican solution for all that ails – tax cuts. Where are the surplus jobs from the bush tax cuts? Mythology 101, republicans and their beloved tax cuts. Meanwhile, the country’s infrastructure disintergrates before our tax cutting eyes…
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:01 pm
pat (and Doggone) – and the majority of Jay’s post is about TARP
Matti
November 30th, 2010
12:02 pm
Mick @ 11:52,
This too is as intended. You must divide a people to conquer and enslave them, especially a people as strong as we once were. They have us thinking that our own neighbors are our enemies, squabbling and fighting amongst ourselves, projecting anger and blame at new bosses who, except for a few crumbs tossed around for the sake of appearance, are virtually no different from the old bosses.
I ask no one to trust my words, only to look at the evidence themselves. There’s plenty.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:02 pm
pat – “The differnce USinUK is that I can prove myu points and you can’t”
posting op-ed pieces from the Washington Times or other rightwingnuttynutnuts is many things … PROOF of anything, it is not.
Left wing management
November 30th, 2010
12:03 pm
pat: “The stimulus was one of the biggest colossal failures in history. Leave it to liberals to tout failures as successes.”
You seem to be suffering from some delusional thinking here ol’ chum. C’mon, lower that head of yours, this is gonna hurt a little …. time of get some of those kinks out.
Now, as for the facts. It’s YOUR side who do nothing but tout failure as success. It’s your side that offers such a nasty mingling of denial, cynicism, and sheer incompetency that you long ago lost the ability to even distinguish between lying for reasons of CYA and lying just to advance your corrupt power-grabbing agenda.
I corrected your typos by the way.
Jefferson
November 30th, 2010
12:03 pm
Tea party played like cheap fiddles, EARMARKS ? WE DON’T NEED NO STINKING EARMARKS.
pat
November 30th, 2010
12:04 pm
47 out of 50 states lost jobs since the stiumulus was signed….
http://www.bls.gov/
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
12:05 pm
UnU
I guess that’s the difference between mainstream and conservative media. I don’t expect conservative media to credit the opposition with anything good.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:06 pm
pat – you do realize that the job massacre started BEFORE Obama took office … it’s not like it started when the stimulus was signed
soames
November 30th, 2010
12:06 pm
The CBO has been known to be wrong….remember that 8% unemployment figure?
This is just like Healthcare Reform. We will not know the true cost until long after it has been in place and has ran it’s course.
Also, unemployment is still at a ridiculously high level and will remain that way for some time to come so I wouldn’t pull a Bush and call it “Mission Accomplished” yet.
everyday American
November 30th, 2010
12:07 pm
wow, good for Jay, actually applauding something that Bush did!!! I’m proud of you Jay… the TARP thing was one of Bush’s tough calls he had to make at the end of his Presidency, and like you, i hope history shows it was a success…
pat
November 30th, 2010
12:07 pm
http://reason.com/blog/2010/08/18/obvious-failure-of-stimulus-be
RB from Gwinnett
November 30th, 2010
12:07 pm
Is this the same CBO that said Obamacare would save us money and then 2 months later said “oops…”?
Seriously, with their track record, shouldn’t you take anything they say with a grain of salt?
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:08 pm
http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?data_tool=latest_numbers&series_id=CES0000000001&output_view=net_1mth
lovely line graph to illustrate my point
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:08 pm
The CBO has been known to be wrong….remember that 8% unemployment figure?
that didn’t come from the CBO
pat
November 30th, 2010
12:09 pm
So, you know why the democrats lost so badly? Because they FAILED.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:09 pm
I love how people post opinion blogs as “proof”
it amuses me.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 30th, 2010
12:09 pm
Well, you can tell Bookman don’t know how to think Republican-wise. See, TARP and the stimulus were bad because us Conservative Republicans beleive somebody’s always got to be punished when things go wrong. We don’t believe in bailing out the banks. It’s better to let the economy go belly-up and about 20 million Americans get fired than pay a penny to bail out the banks. That way, somebody gets punished. Same thing with the stimulus. Somebody done something wrong for the economy to go bust and people need to get punished for it. Oh, I know, some librul’s going to come up with the argument that our whole state would of been bankrupt if not for the stimulus money, but I say it’s better for 200,000 guvmint workers and teachers to get fired than let somebody off of the hook for doing something wrong. I mean, that’s why we have the Death Penalty.
But I’m just wasting words. People like Bookman will never see things Right. Have a good lunch everybody.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
12:10 pm
USinUK – thanks!
Jay
November 30th, 2010
12:10 pm
Paul writes:
“Would the same results have happened if Congressional Democrats had put forth a package closer the the lower numbers proposed by Pres Obama, as Republicans did?”
Not sure what you mean by that.
As to R. Thomas Berner (who was my journalism prof at Penn State, by the way, so blame him for everything you don’t like about me), Bloomberg reports:
“The average shopper in the U.S. spent 6.4 percent more over Thanksgiving weekend than last year as more people picked up jewelry and toys, heartened by the economic rebound.
About 212 million shoppers went to stores and websites over the holiday weekend, on average spending $365.34, the National Retail Federation said Sunday. The proportion of sales online rose to more than one-third of the total, the highest ever, according to the Washington-based trade group.”
Web sales on “Cyber Monday” also reportedly rose 19 percent over a year ago.
(On a side note, had I written that Bloomsberg lede for Mr. Berner, he would probably have given it back to me with a reminder that toys cannot be heartened.)
pat
November 30th, 2010
12:10 pm
I love how people post nothing as proof….It makes me chuckle.
These are the same people that believe that something can come from nothing and that everything is random yet determined.
Kamchak
November 30th, 2010
12:10 pm
pat – you do realize that the job massacre started BEFORE Obama took office …
I would venture to guess that will never be realized.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:11 pm
Paul – 12:10 – I’m a giver. what can i say.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
12:11 pm
USinUK
Sure beats the four or five bucks I pay for a container of the exact same stuff!
@@
November 30th, 2010
12:11 pm
I dunno, jay…we’ll have to let our children and their children determine whether either was a success. It wasn’t, after all, OUR money, it was theirs. Well….theirs and China’s.
pat
November 30th, 2010
12:12 pm
You realize that the stimulus didn’t add jobs. It’s tough to say “Yea, we added jobs!” When the economy contiuned to diarhea jobs into the double digits.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:13 pm
Kam – I’m sure she’ll dig up someone’s blog as “proof” that the economy was just fine until Obama moved into the White House. the moment he and Michelle unpacked their last box, the economy went t*ts-up
pat
November 30th, 2010
12:13 pm
I know, it suck to be wrong, but you should be used to it by now…Got to get back to work to pay your welfare checks.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:14 pm
paul – 12:11 – nuttin beats homemade!
@@
November 30th, 2010
12:15 pm
“The average shopper in the U.S. spent 6.4 percent more over Thanksgiving weekend than last year as more people picked up jewelry and toys, heartened by the economic rebound.
Question is…how many shoppers were adding to last year’s Christmas debt? The American consumer has learned well from the government who leads the way in debt crisis.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:15 pm
You realize that the stimulus didn’t add jobs.
someone needs to inform pat that jobs growth has been positive for the majority of this year (only negative when the gov was done with the census) …
Paul
November 30th, 2010
12:19 pm
Hello Jay
Without looking up the exact numbers, my recollection is Pres Obama put forth a stim proposal of N, comprised of spending and tax cuts. Reps came in lower with their proposal, Dems came in a couple hundred million higher. The passed bill was higher than Pres Obama’s initial proposal. Happens all the time, but my point was… would we have had the same results with $100 million less? $200 million? Who knows? But it might have deflected some of the criticism and winnowed out the questionable items.
We were at a point where people were willing to do something, but I’m afraid what many perceive as gross excess has poisoned the well.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
12:19 pm
@@,
“It wasn’t, after all, OUR money, it was theirs.”
As was the money for 2 wars of choice, revenue lost from massive tax cuts, Medicare Prescription Plans, etc…
Jimmy62
November 30th, 2010
12:20 pm
Haha, we’re not even close to out of this mess and you are declaring victory. Let’s see what we think of TARP in five years when all the chickens have come to roost, when we realize all the things we saved with TARP and stimulus are albatrosses around our necks that will keep our economy from recovering for the long term.
Give a homeless man $5,000, and he’ll be great for a while. But he’ll most likely be back on the streets soon after.
StJ
November 30th, 2010
12:21 pm
“and — oh yeah — helped preserve about a million jobs at Chrysler and GM”. “Preservation” in this case means “keep em running until the next bailout”.
Chrysler and GM haven’t made reliable cars in decades. If anyone needs further proof of that, check the Consumer Reports car-buying guide (and then maybe schedule a visit with the eye doctor if you keep seeing little black spots).
If a car requires constant fixing after the “new” has worn off, it’s not worth owning. I know several people who own newer GM cars (less than 10 years old) and they spend more time in the shop than they do on the road. And as bad as GM cars are, Chryslers are worse. Maybe GM and Chrysler should have spent more money in R&D and less on marketing. If they made a quality product, they wouldn’t need “rebates” and other sales gimmicks to sell it.
Mick
November 30th, 2010
12:22 pm
usinuk
Didn’t you get the memo? Facts don’t matter anymore, ideological beliefs trump all factual information. Only liberals use facts to prove their points, what fools…
Jimmy62
November 30th, 2010
12:22 pm
Oh yeah, also Obama had some pretty specific results he expected from his stimulus, including certain levels of unemployment. We’re not even close to meeting those goals, so for you to call this a resounding success when it didn’t meet it’s own stated goals is simply ludicrous.
TaxPayer
November 30th, 2010
12:22 pm
Apparently our compassionate conservative brethren cannot even see 20/20 in hindsight.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:22 pm
Let’s see what we think of TARP in five years when all the chickens have come to roost, when we realize all the things we saved with TARP and stimulus are albatrosses around our necks
um. you mean the banks? the place where we keep our money and the folks who make loans?
Granny Godzilla
November 30th, 2010
12:23 pm
AND
I predict History will also show the GOP taking cerdit for it…..and Healthcare and Financial reform and ending DADT……
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:23 pm
Mick – “Didn’t you get the memo? Facts don’t matter anymore”
dude. and pat is the QUEEN of “if I say it’s a fact, it IS”
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:24 pm
“and Healthcare and Financial reform and ending DADT……”
wouldn’t surprise me one bit … they took credit for “giving” women the right to vote …
Jay
November 30th, 2010
12:26 pm
Paul, the GOP didn’t HAVE a stimulus proposal. They opposed the whole idea.
Every single Republican in the House voted against it, and only 3 in the Senate voted in favor. The final number of $787 billion was less than the $827 billion Senate version and the $820 billion House version.
Mick
November 30th, 2010
12:28 pm
stj
Bought a chevy s-10 in 92 which survived hurricane andrew – still have it and it runs fine except for the a/c. Bought a chevy silverado in 2000 and gave it to my dad and it still runs fine, a/c still works. I bought another silverado in 06, still have it and no major repairs and runs great along with pretty good gas mileage. Know many other gm owners that have had a good experience so, what you talking about willis?
Jay
November 30th, 2010
12:29 pm
I’ve posted the pertinent jobs chart up above, just for pat.
carlosgvv
November 30th, 2010
12:29 pm
The TARP and stimulus are major successes in the same way as a starving farmer eating all his seed corn is. His hunger is put off for now but come planting time there is nothing left. A similar time of recokning will come for this spending all we have now and aquiring a huge debt. It is just a matter of time till the chickens come home to roost on this.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:30 pm
but, jaaaayyyyy, the stimulus is a failure – all the conservo-nutty blogs say it is … your charts and facts are therefore moot
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:31 pm
carlos – so, your choices are starvation and death or life with debt …
hrmmm …
tough decision.
Kamchak
November 30th, 2010
12:31 pm
Ooooooh, charts.
Common Sense isn't very Common
November 30th, 2010
12:32 pm
StJ@12:21 pm
Chrysler and GM haven’t made reliable cars in decades.
Maybe GM and Chrysler should have spent more money in R&D and less on marketing. If they made a quality product, they wouldn’t need “rebates” and other sales gimmicks to sell it.
——————————-
Yep, it would have been much better for all the corporations if they had left the innovators and engineers in charge of the companies instead of bringing in the bean counters who only understand the term ‘BONUS’
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
12:32 pm
Every single Republican in the House voted against it, and only 3 in the Senate voted in favor. The final number of $787 billion was less than the $827 billion Senate version and the $820 billion House version
Hmmmmmm…..
Jay
November 30th, 2010
12:32 pm
We do have to deal with the deficit, Carlos, but you don’t tackle that one in the middle of the biggest economic calamity in 80 years.
I’ll also note once again that TARP, the stimulus, the auto bailout and the Obama health care plan COMBINED won’t have close to the same impact on the deficit as the Republicans’ Medicare prescription drug plan passed under Bush.
Mick
November 30th, 2010
12:33 pm
Speaking about spending, what about our unfunded war debt? Now, they are seriously talking about tax cuts for the top 2 percenters which will add another 700 biliion in 10 years? They can’t be serious, can they? Oh yes they are, that disfunctional duo mcconnell/boehner…
Common Sense isn't very Common
November 30th, 2010
12:34 pm
TaxPayer@12:22 pm
Apparently our compassionate conservative brethren cannot even see 20/20 in hindsight.
———————
They have perfect 20/20 hindsight because their head is up their arse. To see ahead they need a glass navel.
jt
November 30th, 2010
12:35 pm
It is tapeworm economics.
Iceland is the only country that will have a happy ending.(Banksters and Politicians taking the perp walk.)
Americans have been too federosexualized.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:35 pm
oh, by the way … I said this much earlier today, but it bears repeating …
happy St. Andrews Day to all my fellow Scots and Scot hybrids!!
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
12:36 pm
They have perfect 20/20 hindsight because their head is up their arse. To see ahead they need a glass navel
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
12:37 pm
StJ,
“know several people who own newer GM cars (less than 10 years old) and they spend more time in the shop than they do on the road”
Ummm….1st off, i wouldn’t consider a car that is a decade, or even 4 years old, “newer.”
2nd off…have yo even looked at JD Powers dependability surveys? Trust, and this comes from an Audi owner, I would love to have a Buick or Cadillac.
http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/JDPAContent/CorpComm/News/content/Releases/pdf/2010034-vds2.pdf
3rd off, are you saying that even though a company may have lost its way in the past, it can never turn out a great product ever again? I think Apple would beg to differ…
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
12:37 pm
Not a Scot or Scot hybrid, but I do enjoy a good Scotch!!!!
Happy St. Andrews Day to you too!!
TaxPayer
November 30th, 2010
12:37 pm
I’ll also note once again that TARP, the stimulus, the auto bailout and the Obama health care plan COMBINED won’t have close to the same impact on the deficit as the Republicans’ Medicare prescription drug plan passed under Bush
There goes Jay blaming it all on Bush again. There. I just saved several compassionate conservatives the trouble.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:39 pm
SoCo – that counts!
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:40 pm
Taxpayer – nah – they’ll blame the medicare prescription bill on Kennedy
Jay
November 30th, 2010
12:40 pm
Hey jt, I owe you a lunch.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
12:40 pm
“I’ve posted the pertinent jobs chart up above, just for pat.”
Which will not make one bit of difference in minds that, for whatever reason, will not accept what they do not want to, regardless of fact, figures, charts, etc.
Rightwing Troll
November 30th, 2010
12:40 pm
Yeah…but, but, but…
Don’t worry, President Delay will fix all this in 2013…
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
12:41 pm
jcb
I’d agree. 3 out of 4 cars/trucks in my driveway are GM products, all Chevys. When it comes to replacing them, they’ll be replaced with more GM cars. I haven’t have any problem with the newest one (2009 model) at all. I had the transmission rebuilt on the 99 suburban, but no other issues with that one. The only thing I hate is it’s harder to work on the newer models now because of all the computer systems and stuff. With my older one, I can get downright dirty in the engine compartment if I had to.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
12:41 pm
“happy St. Andrews Day to all my fellow Scots and Scot hybrids!!”
One of my Father’s great-grandmother’s was Scot – does that count?
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:42 pm
time to start working on supper … (and no, it’s neither haggis nor is it deep fried Mars bars)
have a good evening!
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
12:42 pm
Doggone – of course it does!
Rightwing Troll
November 30th, 2010
12:42 pm
I own a GM, 2001 Tahoe, never been in the shop once, unless you count oil changes.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
November 30th, 2010
12:43 pm
I respectfully disagree with both thesis and “proof.” The “TARP” will be remembered as a policy success on a par with Smoot-Hawley, and that would be a reasonable comparison. Both TARPs were unnecessary, and led to nothing more than an expanded government, which has subsequently produced the slowest economic recovery since the Great Depression.
As to the “proof” – CBO? You must be kidding. CBO is allowed to consider only those assumptions the question-asker permits. Suggest looking at a real economics think-tank; I suspect even Brookings is beginning to rethink its marriage to Lord Keynes..
Rightwing Troll
November 30th, 2010
12:43 pm
“We’re not even close to meeting those goals, so for you to call this a resounding success when it didn’t meet it’s own stated goals is simply ludicrous.”
Whoa!! did somebody declare “Mission Accomplished”???
Matti
November 30th, 2010
12:45 pm
In honor of St. Andrew’s Day and the Scot half of my blood, will somebody please bring me a bottle of Dalwhinnie 15? That’s MY kind of stimulus! THANKS!
Paul
November 30th, 2010
12:46 pm
Jay 12:28
While Republicans opposed the final bill, they were in favor of stimulus.
They had objections on the tax cut/funding mix, the size of the funding and how funding was allocated. Their proposals were rejected and they voted against the final package, as you noted.
http://tinyurl.com/26jogjt
Their objections and proposals (sketchy tho they are) are here:
http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/press/2007/pr20090213stimulusconf.pdf
Normal
November 30th, 2010
12:46 pm
I’m of French blood, but I partook of the single malt once, does that count?
Matti
November 30th, 2010
12:47 pm
My kid has an 08 Chevy. It’s crap. I had a Blazer once. It was crap.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
12:47 pm
Jay
It was difficult to find anything on what I remembered as a counterproposal – not just objections. Seem to remember a Time article, but did see this reference on a Con website:
“Conservative Republicans proposed a similar bill about one-third smaller in dollar terms, but were overwhelmed by solid Democratic control of the House. The bill passed the Senate because three Republicans broke party ranks to vote for it; one of them[1] soon switched to the Democratic Party. ”
http://www.conservapedia.com/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009
Matti
November 30th, 2010
12:48 pm
Normal,
I think you should partake of the single malt again, several times, to see whether it counts.
Jay
November 30th, 2010
12:49 pm
Paul, the GOP counterproposal consisted purely of tax cuts, mainly to the rich.
everyday American
November 30th, 2010
12:51 pm
i do wonder why a whole lot of folks think Obama was responsible for TARP…
carlosgvv
November 30th, 2010
12:53 pm
USinUk & Jay
I am simply stating that the time will come when these bailout decisions will prove to have been the wrong ones and never should have been considered. Do you really believe our American economy is so important that if it falters a global economic depression will follow? This is not 1929 and, like it or not, we are not God’s economic gift to the world any longer.
Lil' Barry Bailout
November 30th, 2010
12:55 pm
Three words to describe the hugely successful 800 billion dollar “stimulus”:
Ten. Percent. Unemployment.
Jay
November 30th, 2010
12:56 pm
Paul, I do find it interesting that in that “Conservapedia” piece on the stimulus, they report that Democrats “promised it would add or save 3.5 million jobs.”
As the CBO reports, last quarter the stimulus “increased the number of people employed by between 1.4 million and 3.6 million.”
Lil' Barry Bailout
November 30th, 2010
12:57 pm
The Idiot Messiah increased employment by 2 million?
So each job only cost $400,000?
Heckuva job!
Jay
November 30th, 2010
12:58 pm
Carlos asks:
“Do you really believe our American economy is so important that if it falters a global economic depression will follow?”
Yes. More importantly, the rest of the world believes it too. And in economics, believing something like that is true makes it true.
Left wing management
November 30th, 2010
1:01 pm
It may well be that the real reason the Republicans have opposed anything
Again, we’ve arrived at a moment of extreme paradox in the crisis of capitalism. The center left saves it from complete collapse while trying to shore up certain modest aspects of a social democratic safety net, all the while being smeared by the right for socialist tendencies, while the right itself hopes for its collapse, i.e. its return to a primitive state so it can roll back a whole century of concessions to social democracy (the “starve the beast” strategy) and thereby usher in a “permanent state of economic emergency” to justify its draconian policy visions.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
1:02 pm
Jay 12:49
“mainly to the rich” may be an overstatement. I’ve found it difficult to find what was contained in the Rep counterproposal, altho it seems it changed over time.
NY Times reported: “Republicans interviewed after the meeting said, Mr. Obama told them he would listen to proposals to expand on provisions cutting taxes for small businesses and would be open to corporate tax cuts as well if Republicans cooperated to close tax loopholes for big business. ”
and “Democrats said Mr. Obama could also support a demand from a senior Senate Republican, Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, to add a provision adjusting the alternative minimum tax so that it does not hit millions of middle-class taxpayers this year. That would add costs of nearly $70 billion over 10 years”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/us/politics/28obama.html?_r=1
Paul
November 30th, 2010
1:04 pm
Jay
Don’t know anything about “Conservapedia” – was just the first with anything definitive on a counterproposal – but I do think Republicans won’t be citing it as a source on the effectiveness of the stim program!
AmVet
November 30th, 2010
1:05 pm
At the time, I went on record as being vehemently opposed to TARP, and made a case as to why. I also advocated for an alternative approach and averred that I thought this approach was misguided.
However, I stated then as I do now, that this matter, like many today, is ENORMOUSLY complex and complicated and that if proved incorrect, I would acknowledge so.
I am not yet at that point, but the evidence is mounting, that in spite of my worst fears, it will be viewed as a positive thing. Was it the best option, at the time? I am not certain, and obviously doing nothing was no real option.
However, I still contend that there were numerous critical flaws in it.
Yet, unlike the hyper-partisan demagogues and ideologues in the Party of No that (over?) represent that faction, I do not profess mastery of topics that I clearly have none in. And prefer to avoid making a needless ___ of myself on a public forum simply to score silly political points at the expense of imagined enemies…
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
1:06 pm
i do wonder why a whole lot of folks think Obama was responsible for TARP
It makes it easier to villify the Democratic party when they do that. That’s the only way Republicans can get their people out to vote in mass numbers. Somebody has to be the evil threat to America.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
1:06 pm
Southern Comfort,
“When it comes to replacing them, they’ll be replaced with more GM cars.”
Is this on the list?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/automobiles/autoreviews/19CTSV.html
jt
November 30th, 2010
1:06 pm
Jay,
I got kicked out of that place about 10 years ago. Too many lawyers and such. I did like that basement place right down the sidewalk.
Anyhoo, name the place or venue.
What about that Ruski place.?
Just kidding.
Let’s do the BrickYard.
BlahBlahBlah
November 30th, 2010
1:08 pm
It cemented the idea of “too big to fail”.
That alone makes it a failure. And we will pay for this mistake tenfold down the road.
AmVet
November 30th, 2010
1:09 pm
jt (and Jay) @1:06, if you guys go there, have a really good ale on me! (Their beer section is fantastic.)
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
1:10 pm
Well, I vote for Ragnar as the most accurate here. Paul comes in second and Pat gets points for persistence. Yes sir/mam & kiddies, anybody saying TARP & stimulus are major successes gets the booby prize for blind bungling while the deficit looms like the tower of Pisa. May fall anytime now.
And liberals, as much as I enjoy your superfluous repetition, please get some new “striking” points. Twice a day and three times on Sunday is too many times to say the very SAME thing. You even have a few “Bush did it” hangerons. These few will have on their tombstones: Bush did it!.
Well, don’t worry though. Josef will soon be here to tell you some dirty jokes. Then all will be happy. Yes, sir, happy St. Andrews Day whomever he was. .
Jay
November 30th, 2010
1:12 pm
Don’t know the Brickyard. Where is it?
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
1:13 pm
“The Idiot Messiah increased employment by 2 million?
So each job only cost $400,000?”
Remarks such as this either reveals the person writing it was deprived of oxygen for a period of time as a infant or that they are being purposefully obtuse.
When Cousin’s properties builds an office tower for $75M and has 300 people working on it, does it mean that each person was paid $250K…no b/c there was material and a myriad of other things that added to the final cost. And there was something left behind of value to show for that cost.
jt
November 30th, 2010
1:15 pm
On the square in Decatur.
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
1:15 pm
jcb
Looking at this one..
http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro/
Convertible, of course…
Del
November 30th, 2010
1:17 pm
It looks like once again more crying over a lost election and the fact that the voters weren’t buying the propaganda. Oh I know , it was a messaging issue that sailed over the heads of those stupid voters and all that’s needed is to tweak the message, so the masses will finally get it. The left remains stuck on stupid.
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
1:19 pm
What fools ye mortals be!! There are perfectly good BURGER KINGS all around Atlanta and a “winner” goes to the Brickyard. Why not the Junkyard? Such poor taste! Viva la BurgerKing! (I have a coupon, Jay, if you need it.)
Paul
November 30th, 2010
1:19 pm
AmVet
You mean…. it’s possible to take a topic that most acknowledge could go either way, make a guess and realize maybe it didn’t go entirely the way one thought?
And then to actually…. admit it?!!?
What is this world coming to?!!?
chuck
November 30th, 2010
1:20 pm
Jay, what people complained about with TARP was that it was twice as large as what was needed and that banks that didn’t need the money were forced to take it anyway. Yes I can concede that in a limited fashion it “worked”, but after all, that was done under BUSH. I would say however, that it is hard to prove the negative. No ONE can say with certainty what would have happened in the short term without it, and I would say that in the long term it has weakened they system, because it interfered with market corrections that would have otherwise occurred.
As for “stimulus”, IT is nothing more than a series of payoffs to Obama supporters and has done NOTHING to stimulate the economy while at the same time sinking us into unbelievable and unsustainable debt.
Jay
November 30th, 2010
1:20 pm
and roughly a third of the $787 billion was tax cuts, not actual expenditures.
AmVet
November 30th, 2010
1:21 pm
SoCo, the first car I ever owned…
http://tinyurl.com/36koxak
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
1:22 pm
Southern Comfort,
Nice. My niece is turning 16 next year. 6 years ago her father made her a promise, it she maintained an A average for every year before her 16th birthday, he would be her a new car of her choice. He seems to have forgotten a little thing (and him being a lawyer, you would think he would remember a caveat)…”within reason”.
She has maintained that A average and has made her choice…the Chevy Camaro convertible…D’Oh!
AmVet
November 30th, 2010
1:23 pm
Paul, I guess I’m just weird that way…
Rightwing Troll
November 30th, 2010
1:28 pm
“It looks like once again more crying over a lost election and the fact that the voters weren’t buying the propaganda.”
I disagree, this past election proves the voters bought into the propaganda lock stock and barrel, even with mountains of evidence to the contrary in front of them. (just like WMD’s…)
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
1:28 pm
My GM Cavalier in its youthful tenth year is running like a top. Still good looking too. If you take care of a car it runs well. If you never change your oil or have maintenance, don’t blame GM. They can’t give you brains.
Jay
November 30th, 2010
1:28 pm
chuck, the iraq war cost a lot more than the $499 billion SPENT by the stimulus bill (remember, the remaining $288 billion was in tax cuts).
In fact, by far the three biggest drivers of the federal deficit are the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Bush tax cuts and the recession.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
1:29 pm
jcb
AmV
Nice… This is what I’m currently working on.
http://www.oldride.com/classic_cars/497234.html
Mine is in better visual shape that this one is, but my goal is to bring it back to showroom looks.
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
1:32 pm
Wow, AmVet @ 1:23 has finally admitted:”I’m just weird that way!”
AmVet, did they give you truth serum by mistake down at the VA hospital?
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
1:33 pm
Southern Comfort,
Yeah…its going to be fun to see him wiggle out of that one.
Mick
November 30th, 2010
1:36 pm
I don’t know how many times it has to be repeated but the stimulus is the only gov’t program obama truly owns along with iraq and afghanistan as of 1/2009, which was handed to him by the previous administration. So dusty please stop tagging this president with debt from the last one. Glad to hear your gm vehicle keeps on trucking as do all of mine.
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
1:37 pm
Sorry, Jay, but I feel much safer putting money in our protection against predators than throwing away make believe money to prod our economy. Of course, you never want to fight anybody but Republicans so I guess your viewpoint is understandable.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
1:38 pm
chuck,
“IT is nothing more than a series of payoffs to Obama supporters and has done NOTHING to stimulate the economy while at the same time sinking us into unbelievable and unsustainable debt.”
Then why did Buckhead receive about $17M in stimulus funds for the Peachtree Road project? I think one could safely say Buckhead is one the least Democratic friendly area in Atlanta in terms of both residential and commercial property owners…
Del
November 30th, 2010
1:40 pm
If the tone coming from Obama and the Republican leadership after today’s meeting tells us anything maybe its that they realize they’re going to have to produce results.
AmVet
November 30th, 2010
1:42 pm
Let’s just put it this way, Dusty. I’m just thankful, you don’t work there. (grin)
SoCo, niiice…
It’s been so long since I’ve been in an old car, I’ve forgotten what it was like. Bench seats, three in the tree (or four on the floor!), AM radio (only)…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKKP_cZuk54&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXFFLuoaMzM
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
1:44 pm
Mick,
I do not play tag with the president. Not basketball either although I could probably beat him on goals. The TARP is Bush’s baby. The stimulus is Obama’s pet dinosaur. No doubt about it. The deficit belongs to several generations of Americans. Woohoo…let’s go Christmas shopping, just to help the economy!!
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
1:44 pm
AmV
Mine has the 2-speed Powerglide. I wish I had 3 on the tree. The only thing that’s not original is one windshield wiper and the headlights. Everything else is factory original. Everything’s still functional, w/81k miles.
chuck
November 30th, 2010
1:45 pm
Jay, while I don’t disagree, what was the alternative? You can’t let people attack you and get away with it. We should have already put a few cruise missles in Kim Jong Il’s living room. We will continue to have problems with these little despots unless we deal with them swiftly and decisively.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
1:47 pm
carlos – “Do you really believe our American economy is so important that if it falters a global economic depression will follow?”
wow. have you read the papers since … oh … 2008?
yes, the US economy IS that important that it drives the global economy.
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
1:47 pm
But but AmVet, (1:42) how do you knowwww…………..?????
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
1:48 pm
“Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won’t hurt military”
“Putting an end to “don’t ask, don’t tell,” would have “some limited and isolated disruption to unit cohesion and retention,” the year-long study found, but the effects would not be long-lasting or widespread.”
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11/30/military.gay.policy/index.html?hpt=T1
chuck
November 30th, 2010
1:48 pm
I don’t know jcb, but answer a question for me…who was the contractor?
Common Sense isn't very Common
November 30th, 2010
1:48 pm
mine was a 67 hardtop camaro with 327. bought it in 72 and sold it in 82 for the same price I paid for it. I didn’t charge extra for the dents I put in it LOL.
SoCo – when you finish with it don’t take it near the Airport or you won’t ever see it again.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
1:48 pm
blahblahblah – “It cemented the idea of “too big to fail”.”
no, the way the market tanked following Lehman Brothers cemented the idea of “too big to fail”
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
1:49 pm
“Jay, while I don’t disagree, what was the alternative? You can’t let people attack you and get away with it.”
When did either Iraq or Afghanistan attack us?
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
1:50 pm
“We should have already put a few cruise missles in Kim Jong Il’s living room”
excellent idea … because the first Korean conflict was such a resounding success … not to mention, we have so much spare capacity in our military at the moment
Jay
November 30th, 2010
1:50 pm
chuck, we had no choice but to go into Afghanistan. And if we had committed the necessary troops and resources early, we might be pretty much out of there by now.
Iraq was entirely a war of choice. And while we don’t have to rehash all that in a discussion about economics, it is certainly relevent to point out that Bush became the only US. president to SLASH taxes in a time of war.
In every other era, we understood that war requires shared sacrifice. In this one, war required us to go shopping.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
1:50 pm
Doggone – 1:49 – you have the patience of a saint, I tell ya
Mick
November 30th, 2010
1:50 pm
dusty
Thank god for women and shopping, because without you this economy would be in depression! Most guys are cheapskates but will part with some money for their toys…Merry Christmas…
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
1:51 pm
“You can’t let people attack you and get away with it.”
Oh, and BTW, if this is to be the policy of choice…we should have attacked Saudi Arabia – not Iraq or Afghanistan
AmVet
November 30th, 2010
1:53 pm
SoCo,
I bought mine when I was stationed in Tampa, from an older lady. (I think she was 26!) She was a stew for either Eastern or Delta (I’ve forgotten) and was transferring out west.
When I shipped out to England a year or so later, I sold it and when I got to the UK, I bought a 72 Mini! So I went from a muscle car to a 1250cc engine! But it was perfect for over there and besides it was a real performance machine. Most had 750cc engines!
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/19/rr-of-the-day-1972-austin-mini/
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
1:53 pm
“you have the patience of a saint, I tell ya”
and they never answer, do they? I’ve said all along, we should have gone into Afghanistan, gotten Bin Laden and gotten out. I’ve seen nothing in the last 10 years to change my mind.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
1:54 pm
Doggone – you mean this Saudi Arabia?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9gn6KLa5xtY/SwLMiofNEMI/AAAAAAAAFPk/U84gmtQvGGs/s400/BushSaudiPrinceAbdullahHoldingHands.jpg
@@
November 30th, 2010
1:56 pm
Carlos asks:
“Do you really believe our American economy is so important that if it falters a global economic depression will follow?”
Yes. More importantly, the rest of the world believes it too. And in economics, believing something like that is true makes it true.
So Obama should listen to Europe’s leaders when it comes to his excessive stimulus spending? If they see it as destructive to the global economy, would it not be true? Kinda like a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
1:56 pm
Paul…I think you’ll find this amusing:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201011300024
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
1:56 pm
Jay –
your 1:50 reminds me of a fantastic piece I read in Salon nearly 10 years ago when this whole kerfuffle started
http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2001/12/11/poster_intro
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
1:56 pm
USinUK – yeah, that’s the one!
Paul
November 30th, 2010
1:56 pm
AmVet 1:21 and SoCom
Nice.
My first car:
http://tinyurl.com/22v93nd
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
1:57 pm
@@ – “So Obama should listen to Europe’s leaders when it comes to his excessive stimulus spending?”
apples and oranges – to be a member of the EU, no country is allowed to have debt greater than a certain % of their GDP
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
1:58 pm
Oh dear, General Doggone speaks again (and always the same) and the Pentagon disobeys. What in the world are we going to do??? Her plan worked in WWII…..
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
2:00 pm
The Growth and Stability Pact governs fiscal policy with the European Union. It applies to all member states, with specific rules which apply to the eurozone members that stipulate that each state’s deficit must not exceed 3% of GDP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Economies_of_member_states
chuck
November 30th, 2010
2:00 pm
We have had this discussion before Jay so I won’t rehash it either, BUT I think dealing with Hussein as we did has helped us to avoid having to deal with some of the other nut jobs out there. My fear is that we are losing the “shock and awe” that we brought to bear in both Afghanistan AND Iraq. The mistake was not in the war, but in the nation building that followed. I certainly would have preferred it if we had left a pile of rubble with a note that the next time there wouldn’t even be a pile of rubble left.
USinUK, the first Korean conflict WAS a success in many ways. It created a great ally in South Korea that is now one of our most important trading partners and it ended with containment of communism in that country. It also gave the world a STARK CONTRAST between the ultra successful capitalism of the South and the utter failure of communism in the STARVING North.
Doggone/GA, If I hide a CRIMINAL in MY HOUSE the cops are going to kick down MY DOOR.
Jay
November 30th, 2010
2:01 pm
and @@, how’s that European economy doing these days, anyway?
AmVet
November 30th, 2010
2:02 pm
Doggone, so Faux News retracted the fake story? (Note the question mark!)
I’m not sure if this will make Bill O’Lielly happy or just enrage him further!
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:02 pm
“Doggone/GA, If I hide a CRIMINAL in MY HOUSE the cops are going to kick down MY DOOR”
And that’s why I’ve said all along that we should have gone in, gotten Bin Laden and gotten out. When you hide a criminal in YOUR house do the cops go and attack someone in California?
@@
November 30th, 2010
2:03 pm
I’ve said all along, we should have gone into Afghanistan, gotten Bin Laden and gotten out.
Easier said than done. Clinton failed.
For all intents and purposes, Bin Laden and AQ are done…ineffective from their hideout in no-man’s land. All that’s left are amateurish wannabes.
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
2:04 pm
USinUK,
Golly geee, I love your line of work. All day blogging and yet able to solve the world’s problems. You are one whiz kid!! And a big liberal heart to go with it!!
Do they have an opening at your “business”? I’d love to see Big Ben again ..the green parks, London Bridge. I could get it in with the blogging. Let me know!!
Matti
November 30th, 2010
2:04 pm
Mick,
I’m not a very good woman then, because I just don’t shop that much. “Black Friday?” Pleeeeeze. Not when there’s an important FOOTBALL game on TV!
My apologies to all for not doing my part to stimulate the economy this past weekend. Besides a pizza and a couple of deli sandwiches, I purchased nothing.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:05 pm
Doggone/GA
“Oh, and BTW, if this is to be the policy of choice…we should have attacked Saudi Arabia – not Iraq or Afghanistan”
We normally don’t hold countries and governments responsible for the nonsanctioned actions of its citizens.
1:56
Cute. Now if NBC would just issue a correction….
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
2:05 pm
Jay – 2:01 – I hear Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Greece are just fine, thanks for asking!
chuck – a draw /= a win. North Korea is still a threat to the stability of the region, we still have to keep our troops there to man the DMZ, and I don’t think having S. Korea as a trading partner is worth the 10M people who died in it …
@@
November 30th, 2010
2:06 pm
and @@, how’s that European economy doing these days, anyway?
Don’t know for sure. How’d they get to where they stand or not-stand at present? They seem to be a bit overburdened? What’s weighing ‘em down?
Jay
November 30th, 2010
2:06 pm
chuck, the “shock and awe” you cite is entirely mythical. Both Iran and North Korea, for example, accelerated rather than dropped their nuclear programs after our invasion of Iraq. They became more recalcitrant, not less.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
2:07 pm
oh, and speaking of Ireland – if you ever wanted a poster child of why NOT to have 0% corporate taxes, see their current economic situation.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
2:07 pm
chuck,
“but answer a question for me…who was the contractor?”
It was a open bid process, with the lowest bid winning. The funds were secured separately from the bid process, so quite frankly, the contractor could have been anyone.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:07 pm
@@
“I’ve said all along, we should have gone into Afghanistan, gotten Bin Laden and gotten out.
Easier said than done. ”
Bush couldn’t find OBL? In any one of those caves or behind one of those mountains? Yup.
Then again, Pres Obama can’t find Wikileaks’s Assange….
Rightwing Troll
November 30th, 2010
2:07 pm
“Sorry, Jay, but I feel much safer putting money in our protection against predators than throwing away make believe money to prod our economy. ”
It’s all make believe money, not just the money spent on things YOU don’t believe in… I just wish we’d of got our (make believe) money’s worth, instead of declaring “Mission Accomplished” and spending 200 billion dollars a second to allow our commander in chief swagger across the deck of an aircraft carrier… while the man who actually attacked us was allowed to ride away on the back of a donkey… don’t you?
@@
November 30th, 2010
2:08 pm
USinUK:
The union was destined to fail. Competing interests and all that garb.
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
2:08 pm
Dusty – “You are one whiz kid!! ”
why yes. yes, I am.
“Do they have an opening at your “business”? ”
I don’t think you’d fit in – we actually have to know what we’re talking about where I work …
Mick
November 30th, 2010
2:09 pm
matti
That’s OK with me. This black friday biz is just so much propaganda, the real sales start in mid january. Still working on that perfect key lime, did get a lot of compliments this thanksgiving..
Rightwing Troll
November 30th, 2010
2:09 pm
“Bush couldn’t find OBL? In any one of those caves or behind one of those mountains? Yup.
Then again, Pres Obama can’t find Wikileaks’s Assange….”
And Bush couldn’t find those pesky WMD’s.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:09 pm
“Doggone, so Faux News retracted the fake story? (Note the question mark!)”
Welll…let’s call it “what passes for a retraction” anyway
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
2:10 pm
@@ – actually, on that, you and I are in complete agreement. not because of competing interests but because you can’t have 1 central bank setting policy for such diverse countries who are at such different economic levels.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:11 pm
“Easier said than done. Clinton failed”
Clinton made the decision to attack Afghanistan and Iraq? That’s going to be BIG news to historians.
Jay
November 30th, 2010
2:11 pm
McCain could find bin Laden, but he’s not going to tell us where now that we refused to elect him president.
@@
November 30th, 2010
2:11 pm
Paul:
Then again, Pres Obama can’t find Wikileaks’s Assange….
Surely he can find Wikileaks’ server. His administration had no problem finding the servers that were stealing from the entertainment crowd. Saved Holly’sWood.
May sound a bit extreme, but somebody needs to off Assange. He obviously has nothing to live for. We’d be doing him a favor.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:12 pm
“We normally don’t hold countries and governments responsible for the nonsanctioned actions of its citizens”
Like Afghanistan and Iraq? Good think you put that “normally” in there…gives you an out, doesn’t it?
jconservative
November 30th, 2010
2:14 pm
“Will Republicans start taking credit for it now?”
As all of you know TARP is a Republican program out of the Bush 43 administration. It is not a Democratic program. So if it was a success give a huge share of the credit to Bush 43.
But if you think it was a disaster give a huge share of the blame to Bush 43.
And I am sure all remember McCann “suspending” his presidential election campaign to rush back to Washington to save the Republic.
I am one of those who thought TARP was a necessary evil to avoid a world wide depression. And I am not a Bush 43 fan, as you regulars know, but I give him full credit for this decision.
And if all it ends up costing us is $25 billion, then money well spent.
@@
November 30th, 2010
2:15 pm
Clinton made the decision to attack Afghanistan and Iraq?
No, he decided to kill some aspirin and baby formula instead.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:15 pm
Jay
Those Navy guys can be soooo petulant….
Doggone/GA
You’re not going to take the position that the government of Afghanistan enabled AQ and was offering them continuing sanctuary to conduct operations, are you?
(oh, and speaking in absolutes gives rise to someone saying “but what about this possibility” and then it’s off course, again).
Bosch
November 30th, 2010
2:15 pm
Jay being snarky @ 2:11! Hahhaha!
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
2:15 pm
jcons – “And I am not a Bush 43 fan, as you regulars know, but I give him full credit for this decision”
me, too.
that and the nomination of Bernanke – the 2 things I think he did right during his tenure in office.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:16 pm
“So if it was a success give a huge share of the credit to Bush 43.
But if you think it was a disaster give a huge share of the blame to Bush 43″
Nope, neither one. He gets half of the credit or blame. His administration only handed out half of what was allocated. The other half was not released until after he left office. ‘Course there was that small matter of selling it to Congress as one program, then changing the program after the money was released…but we won’t mention THAT.
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
2:16 pm
Yeah, Chuck, the shock and awe have disappeared just like 9/11 terrorism disappeared in the minds of liberals. . The next thing to disappear into history will probably be President Obama. Another “something” that liberals find they want to forget.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:17 pm
@@
Server’s in Sweden. Assange’s whereabouts are a mystery.
Not to worry. AG Holder said we’re going to be very stern with him. Open an investigation. See if there’s something we can do. He’s been very naughty and he needs to know we’re looking at him.
Hopefully that won’t take as long as figuring out what to do with the 9-11 hijackers….
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
2:18 pm
totally appropos to nothing … I just love watching our dog in the snow … she’s an absolute riot
(it’s currently up to her belly in our back garden – she’s having a ball jumping through the drifts)
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:19 pm
Doggone/GA
Left out a couple of words, sorry.
“Doggone/GA
You’re not going to take the position that the government of Afghanistan DID NOT enable AQ and was offering them continuing sanctuary to conduct operations, are you?
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
2:19 pm
“McCain could find bin Laden, but he’s not going to tell us where now that we refused to elect him president.”
Hehe…as I said age limits…not term limits. McCain is the Favre of politics…but I sure don’t want those pictures coming out…
Halftrack
November 30th, 2010
2:20 pm
Jay, what is the meaning of success? We only lost XXBanks so far, and hundreds more are on the risky list. Many construction companies are out of business now. The Pres. has called for salary freeze on government workers. Inflation is afoot – - – just go to the grocery store. Why do we have to print more money? Quanitative easing is reducing the value of our dollar. China & Russia have abandoned the dollar. History does not record alternate courses only the outcomes of circumstances. We haven’t reached the end yet. Write another column about this on April 15, 2011.
Mick
November 30th, 2010
2:21 pm
usinuk
Another good thing that happened during bush tenure, his helicopter and motorcade messing up the queens property – well done.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:21 pm
“You’re not going to take the position that the government of Afghanistan enabled AQ and was offering them continuing sanctuary to conduct operations, are you?”
Why not? You said: “We normally don’t hold countries and governments responsible for the nonsanctioned actions of its citizens” – but in the case of Iraq we held both citizens AND the government responsible for something neither of the did. In Afghanistan it was the opposite of what you said, we held the population responsible (by attacking them) for something their government sanctioned.
There was no excuse for attacking Iraq, and I’ve already stated twice what we should have done in Afghanistan.
RW-(the original)
November 30th, 2010
2:23 pm
McCain could find bin Laden, but he’s not going to tell us where now that we refused to elect him president.
Kerry told he us he knew how to end casualties in Iraq too, but when he didn’t get elected he also decided to keep the plan to himself.
Makes one think Governor Moonbeam was right when he briefly left politics
USinUK
November 30th, 2010
2:24 pm
Mich – 2:21 – I missed that one …
s’okay, though – she has LOADS of places she can crash while they’re returfing the garden
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
2:26 pm
Hmmmm maybe Jay would like to compare his military record with that of McCain’s? WHY?? Well, for one thing, no appreciation is shown for our military heroes but plenty of time to dump on them when they are older. Way to go, Jay and JewCowboy!! Show us YOUR medals…
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:27 pm
Doggone/GA
Have you thought about using examples like Iraq only with people who actually think they had something to do with 9-11 or OBL?
“In Afghanistan it was the opposite of what you said, we held the population responsible (by attacking them) for something their government sanctioned.”
So…. in going to war, how do you propose we separate effects on gov’t from the population?
That limb’s gonna crack….
Jackie
November 30th, 2010
2:28 pm
Does the economic chaos affect the so-called conservatives that have apologised for the suffering of the country as profoundly as other citizens?
Matti
November 30th, 2010
2:28 pm
Shock? Awe? Sure was… to the families and little brown children who were bombed out of their beds during the initial assualt. Why? It’s not like they elected their dictator-tyrant. They had no say in that, nor whether they wanted to be “collateral damage.” They were not hiding the people who attacked the United States, as were the people of Afghanistan, who were given the option of handing the bad guys over before our soldiers went in.
How shocked and awed I am to be reminded once again that some people matter, and some people don’t. (Heh.. by the pro-life brigade, too.) Irony, thou thrivest here.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:29 pm
“So…. in going to war, how do you propose we separate effects on gov’t from the population?”
for one thing, you don’t GO to war when it’s not necessary. And it wasn’t necessary. As keeps being pointed out, one good missile strike would have ended Bin Laden.
chuck
November 30th, 2010
2:29 pm
Doggone/GA, you are a riot. If you think it was as easy as just going in to get him, then why hasn’t Obama done it? That’s like saying, “If I was the President, I would put an END to homelessness.” Suddenly a song comes to mind…If I was the King of the Forrrrrreeeeeest!
Mick
November 30th, 2010
2:30 pm
The word “hero” is totally subjective and used way too loosely these days.
@@
November 30th, 2010
2:30 pm
Sweden, Paul???
It’s a tiny little country. The NYTimes was right when it said Assange was being pursued by turmoil.
I’ll take it to mean they were talking about our over-bloated “intelligence” community.
Matti
November 30th, 2010
2:32 pm
Dusty,
TRUE or FALSE? John McCain campaigned repeatedly in 2008 that he knew how to, could, and would “FIND BIN LADEN.” *theme from Jeopardy plays* Mr. Bookman was correct in his job as a journalist to remind us that McCain — if he was telling the truth — has chosen to hide from our military the information he assured us he had… but was sitting on…. until we elected him.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:32 pm
“If you think it was as easy as just going in to get him, then why hasn’t Obama done it? ”
Because the situation today is not the same as the day we had him “trapped” (yeah right) in Tora Bora
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
2:33 pm
Dusty,
“Well, for one thing, no appreciation is shown for our military heroes but plenty of time to dump on them when they are older.”
I’m sorry…am I only suppose to look at his military career and not what he has done in the 29 years since?
“Show us YOUR medals…”
Well as you know they have this little ban in the military. See if you are a boy and you like to kiss boys…they don’t want you. I applied in 1992 to the Air Force, before DADT, and they asked…and I told.
That’s another place where McCain he has shown he has lost any integrity whatsoever…
chuck
November 30th, 2010
2:33 pm
I saw Assnge on the news yesterday. They were talking about him going somewhere to speak. He definitely needs to be “sanctioned”.
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
2:34 pm
Would someone please stick a pin in Doggone’s pomposity before she makes Guam shift and the blog explode? I mean there’s going to be a big cleanup if something isn’t done.
@@
November 30th, 2010
2:37 pm
jay:
Have you heard of The Tiziano Project?
Team of volunteer journalists wants to train locals in conflict zones to tell their own stories, improve their lives
http://www.niemanlab.org/2010/11/team-of-volunteer-journalists-wants-to-train-locals-in-conflict-zones-to-tell-their-own-stories-improve-their-lives/
It’s kinda kool. They’ve set up shop in Iraq’s Kurdish territory. The Kurdish participants, all in their twenties, have some interesting stories to tell. All about their struggles to survive under Saddam. His ruthless oppression and attempts (with WMDs) to purge Iraq of their (the Kurd’s) desire to be free.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:37 pm
Doggone/GA
The objective then was not to take out just OBL, but AQ. The Taliban were given the choice stop providing sanctuary and to hand them over or we’d take them out, too. They refused.
Do you really think that if the Joint Chiefs of Staff thought a couple have missiles would have done the trick they’d have risked the lives of the soldiers with an invasion?
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
2:37 pm
Dusty,
“Would someone please stick a pin in Doggone’s pomposity before she makes Guam shift and the blog explode?”
Be sure not to prick yourself with that pin…
Matti
November 30th, 2010
2:37 pm
Doggone/GA
You’re not really “trapped” if somebody gives you a way out in return for not attacking their country again (as long as they’re in charge).
Recent Grad
November 30th, 2010
2:38 pm
What we need is a banner that says, “Mission Accomplished!” Yeah, that’s the ticket.
chuck
November 30th, 2010
2:39 pm
Sorry Dusty, but McCain was either lying about “knowing how to find him” OR as Matti said, he’s withholding it because he was not elected. I can’t imagine that if he knew what he was talking about, that he would have withheld that info from the government, so I have to assume it was just empty campaign rhetoric. While I would agree with you that he was and is a hero for his MILITARY service, he is a DISASTER in his political service. Arizona Republicans blew it when they failed to elect Hayworth who really IS A CONSERVATIVE.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
2:39 pm
@@ @ 2.37,
Neat…thanks.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:39 pm
jewcowboy
Playing “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours” with Dusty?
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:41 pm
“Do you really think that if the Joint Chiefs of Staff thought a couple have missiles would have done the trick they’d have risked the lives of the soldiers with an invasion?”
Let me ask you a return question: if the CIC ordered them to invade, do you think they would have refused? And please remember, I *did* say we should have GONE IN and gotten him.
RW-(the original)
November 30th, 2010
2:41 pm
I hope to God our focus isn’t primarily on going after Assange. It’s not like he was the one that failed to safeguard the documents or downloaded the information. After we plug those holes, it wouldn’t hurt to follow the money though
Mick
November 30th, 2010
2:41 pm
chuck
Just what we don’t need – more conservatives. Hasn’t mccain come on over to your side anyway?
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
2:42 pm
Paul,
“Playing “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours” with Dusty?”
Nah…Dusty’s is undoubtedly bigger…
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:42 pm
jewcowboy
Seems 70 percent of the troops don’t care a whit about gays in the military. The 30%? I’d imagine old guys with old attitudes and some super-testosterone groundpounders who aren’t all that sure what manhood means.
What I’m waiting for is how Cons (Reps AND Dems) try to spin they know better than the troops and the President’s chief military advisor.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:42 pm
“You’re not really “trapped” if somebody gives you a way out in return for not attacking their country again (as long as they’re in charge).”
And you’re not really trapped if your enemy has you surrounded, but then backs off and tells someone else to “go get him”
chuck
November 30th, 2010
2:44 pm
Mick, no he hasn’t. McCain is only an election year conservative.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
2:45 pm
Paul,
“The 30%? I’d imagine old guys with old attitudes and some super-testosterone groundpounders who aren’t all that sure what manhood means.”
I do find interesting the difference in Marines vs. every other service branch in the attitudes.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:46 pm
Doggone/GA
The order to invade would have come AFTER the military gave options on how to accomplish the President’s objectives. If they thought a missile would have done the trick, they’d have said so.
“Mr. President, you want us to get OBL and take out AQ. We think some missile strikes will do the trick.”
“Thanks, General, but I think an invasion is needed. So… invade.”
“You want to risk all those casualties when we can get the same results with a couple of missiles?”
“Sure, why not?”
“Okey dokey.”
USMC Dawg
November 30th, 2010
2:46 pm
“History will record George W. Bush, Tax cuts as major successes”
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:47 pm
“If they thought a missile would have done the trick, they’d have said so”
How do you know they didn’t advise exactly that?
Mick
November 30th, 2010
2:50 pm
chuck
I used to like mccain when he was a maverick, was hoping hayworth would knock him off also. The reason mccain will go down infamy was his unleashing of palin on us into the national consciousness. Good for her, but a curse on the rest of us…
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
2:50 pm
USMC Dawg,
“History will record George W. Bush, Tax cuts as major successes”
Yeah…they’ve done wonders in the past 9 years…
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
2:51 pm
Jewcowboy, I don’t care about your past military history. You tried but did not serve. I know McCain’s. and it is admirable and he has done nothing to disgrace it but serve in the Congress of the USA since then. If you don’t agree with his policies, that does not make HIM disgraceful. It makes him disagree with you.
I believe that those who serve in our military are worthy of respect at all ages. They have done more than their part for this country. I don’t like it when political preference takes precedence over respect for those. serving our country. .
Mick
November 30th, 2010
2:51 pm
**“History will record George W. Bush, Tax cuts as major successes”**
Nice work of fiction going on there.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:52 pm
RW-(the original)
I read a near-hysterical response one a progressive cite when someone said one of Soros’s enterprises gave money to Wikileaks. Response was so typical – attack the messenger, go on and on about “they only asked for money, can’t prove they got any” – then they wove in the WSJ, attacked them…
and completely ignored how Wiki shields its funding from scrutiny.
jewcowboy
And I’ve wondered about that in the context of those who yell loudest to condemn others (like con Reps in bathroom stalls and evangelical preachers) who are then found guilty of the same thing.
But I wouldn’t say that to their faces. I have a finely honed survival instinct.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:53 pm
“Nice work of fiction going on there.”
Still short on plot, though.
Paul
November 30th, 2010
2:54 pm
Doggone/GA
“How do you know they didn’t advise exactly that?”
You’re wandering all around Robin Hood’s barn today, aren’t you?
willie lynch
November 30th, 2010
2:55 pm
TARP was a sound management decision and will be viewed as such once all the emotion leaves the argument.
USMC Dawg
November 30th, 2010
2:55 pm
“Yeah…they’ve done wonders in the past 9 years…”
The same could be said about Comrade Obama and his smokey/backroom deals… i mean “stimulus”.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
2:55 pm
“You’re wandering all around Robin Hood’s barn today, aren’t you?”
Nope. You DON’T know what they advised. What do you suppose their advice was about Iraq? Take a line through the decision on THAT, to any decision about Afghanistan.
AmVet
November 30th, 2010
2:55 pm
Dawg @2:46,
Highly unlikely but perhaps. And let’s be honest, he’s not off to a scintillating start, by ANY measure.
Particularly in this poll…
“Which of these eleven presidents we have had since World War II would you consider the worst president — Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George Bush Senior, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush?”
1. George W. Bush (34%)
2. Richard Nixon (17%)
3. Bill Clinton (16%)
4. Jimmy Carter (13%)
5. Don’t Know/No Answer (5%)
6. Lyndon B. Johnson (4%)
7. George H. W. Bush (3%)
8. Ronald Reagan (3%)
9. Gerald Ford (2%)
10. Harry S. Truman (1%)
11. John F. Kennedy (1%)
12. Dwight D. Eisenhower (<1%)
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
2:56 pm
Dusty,
“I don’t care about your past military history.”
Then don’t bring it up.
“I believe that those who serve in our military are worthy of respect at all ages.”
And I believe ones actions while in uniform and while out is what I will base my respect upon.
“I don’t like it when political preference takes precedence over respect for those. serving our country. .”
I don’t believe that having served in the military is a automatic pass ever after. The fact is that McCain has served longer as a politician than as a member of the armed forces, and I’ll judge him on both.
chuck
November 30th, 2010
2:57 pm
Mick, I couldn’t agree with you more. Palin needs to return to the obscurity she so richly deserves. That was the stupidest VP selection since Sargent Shriver. It is not that she is wrong on the issues. It is that she has NO GRAVITAS. Like Obama, she is an empty suit foisted upon us by political hacks.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
November 30th, 2010
2:57 pm
Jay, you must be off your meds with this one. The only thing it did was add to the deficit. Even a LIBERAL should be able to see that.
Del
November 30th, 2010
2:59 pm
Gates said that there was resistance to doing away with DADT in the specialty combat arms (he didn’t confine that to the Marine Corps as JCB incorrectly implied). He went on to say that resistance within the combat arms concerned military command and it concerned him as well.
USMC Dawg
November 30th, 2010
3:01 pm
That’s odd AmVet, I came across this poll:
1. Comrade Barak Obama (36%)
2. Jimmy Carter (23%)
3. Bill Clinton (16%)
4. George W. Bush (13%)
5. Richard Nixon (5%)
6. Lyndon B. Johnson (1%)
7. George H. W. Bush (1%)
8. Ronald Reagan (1%)
9. Gerald Ford (1%)
10. Harry S. Truman (1%)
11. John F. Kennedy (1%)
12. Dwight D. Eisenhower (<1%)
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
3:02 pm
Del,
“(he didn’t confine that to the Marine Corps as JCB incorrectly implied”
“At the same time, the report found that 30 percent of those surveyed overall — and between 40 and 60 percent of the Marine Corps — either expressed concern or predicted a negative reaction if Congress were to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell” law, which allows gays and lesbians to serve in the military on the condition that they keep their sexuality a secret.”~ Washington Post
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
3:03 pm
2:42
Well, thank you, Jewcowboy and Paul for trying to start out on Josef’s dirty joke path. Don’t you “gentlemen” know any other way? MCP is getting a bit outdated.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
3:04 pm
“and between 40 and 60 percent of the Marine Corps”
Amusing, isn’t it, that of all our armed forces it’s those big, tough Marines that will have the most trouble dealing with the repeal of DADT.
Mick
November 30th, 2010
3:05 pm
chuck
It doesn’t seem to matter when there is a democrat in the white house, the right wing echo chamber is at full throttle 24/7, even hillary would be toast by now. However, if obama does cave in to this tax cut, then he will lose much of his base. Regardless of party affiliation, will we ever get a champion of the people?
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
3:05 pm
SoCo – when you finish with it don’t take it near the Airport or you won’t ever see it again.
Got fairly secure parking at work. If someone manages to get it from the job, I’ll be paid anyway once I get finished with the security company.
ATL Guy
November 30th, 2010
3:05 pm
If Obama was a white Republican, he would praised as Reagan come again. But because he’s a Democrat and BLACK, he will be crucified to the end of the world. Republicans are being major stupid right now. Party before country – that’s the Republican mantra.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
3:06 pm
Dusty,
“Well, thank you, Jewcowboy and Paul for trying to start out on Josef’s dirty joke path”
Your welcome.
TnGelding
November 30th, 2010
3:07 pm
Why would you want to open yourself up for such abuse, Jay? Can’t you see all the soup lines and shuttered banks?
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
3:07 pm
Doggone/GA,
“Marines say privately they know the policy is on its way out, adding that the older officers will take it harder than the younger ones who have grown up in a more open society.
But in the end, Lt. Col. Hackett said, every good Marine follows orders, and “if that’s what the president orders, I can tell you by God we’re going to excel above and beyond the other services to make it happen and be damn good at it.”
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/nov/27/marines-resistant-to-repeal-of-gay-ban/
Gordon
November 30th, 2010
3:08 pm
“Stimulus a Success” = “Mission Accomplished”
We have $787B more deficit. We’ve simply kicked the can down the road with GM.
Regarding the TARP, I looked and looked and couldn’t find any reference to GWB. Just an oversight, I guess.
USMC Dawg
November 30th, 2010
3:08 pm
“Amusing, isn’t it, that of all our armed forces it’s those big, tough Marines that will have the most trouble dealing with the repeal of DADT.”
No doggone, nobody cares what you do in private, but it DOES effect a unit’s esprit de corps. We just don’t want them flying their “Nazi” Gay Flag ahead of the country or the corps.
You have no idea what garbage you are spouting. It’s real easy to sit indoors and play “experiment” with an institution that you know NOTHING about.
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
3:08 pm
AmV @ 1:53
Paul @ 1:56
Nice rides!!!
TnGelding
November 30th, 2010
3:09 pm
You are welcome, too, at my house any time!
ATL Guy
November 30th, 2010
3:05 pm
Ain’t that the truth!
Bosch
November 30th, 2010
3:09 pm
Interesting that in Dawg’s poll it has Obama’s first name as “Comrade” — makes you wonder about the source.
Bosch
November 30th, 2010
3:09 pm
“We just don’t want them flying their “Nazi” Gay Flag ahead of the country or the corps”
Oh. My. Freaking God.
Matti
November 30th, 2010
3:10 pm
chuck,
Look deeply into your 2:57….. I’m beginning to think our whole national election process is a sham, and the things you say are confirming, not refuting, my worst fears. Since Obama has not yet shown himself to be significantly different than his predecessors, (though he touts a handful of compromised “victories” as evidence of change), I suspect that perhaps the men behind the curtain allowed/enabled his election (by way of a VP offering so absurd, even hard-core Repubs had a hard time justifying it) to quiet and pacify the mounting anger over the [perceived] Bush eff-ups which, in retrospect, seem to be deliberate in their result. Crazy? Perhaps. But the evidence doesn’t readily “refudiate” the notion.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
3:10 pm
“But in the end, Lt. Col. Hackett said, every good Marine follows orders”
Yep…that’s why I said “dealing with” and not “implementing” the repeal of DADT.
Captain
November 30th, 2010
3:10 pm
Let’s not overlook a couple of items the Obama Administration took care of via the TARP program. 1)with the auto bailout, hundreds of automobile dealerships were wiped out by some unknown, yet to be explained method employed by the Obama Admin. What was the method used to choose which dealers to close and thus ruin their family businesses? Hopefully Congressional Republicans can uncover the truth. 2)bond holders and other creditors were eliminated by the Obama Admin when it came time to file for bankruptcy of General Motors. Although Federal Law stipulates the chain of repayment goes to those entities first, the Obama Admin eliminated those note holders while protecting their Union buddies at the UAW. While bond holders and creditors received nothing towards repayment of their loans, the UAW was given interest in GM. When the Obama Administration allowed General Motors to go forward with its Initial Public Offering of stock the United Auto Workers Union cashed in to the tune of more than $2 BILLION. Talk about a political payback of the first order. Those bond holders and creditors got nothing for their billions loaned to GM yet the UAW received over $2 billion for nothing. That is Obama Capitalism. Take care of the Unions.
You Liberals constantly screamed about Halliburton, you made all kinds of wild accusations, are you going to be silent about the Obama Admin giving handouts to the Unions and General Electric? What about the special deals the Obama Admin is working out for Unions to exempt them from ObamaCare? Let’s hear some outrage about these “special deals” from you boys and girls on the left.
chuck
November 30th, 2010
3:11 pm
I think the problem is that many of our politicians start out as “champions for the people” but when the money race starts they lose focus on what got them there. I think that we should push for laws that would eliminate “junkets” and make it illegal to accept ANY gifts of ANY KIND. I can tell you this…2012 is the best chance we have had in a long time to elect someone like that. I can’t say that I hold out much hope for them staying that way.
OH, we also need to make Congress a PART-TIME JOB. I always liked Lamar Alexander’s slogan: Cut their pay and send them home.
TnGelding
November 30th, 2010
3:12 pm
But it’s OK to wave the GOP colors before Duty, Honor, Country?
Mick
November 30th, 2010
3:12 pm
dawg
When you build a “team” that includes everybody, especially if your life depends on each other. I fail to see a problem there.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
3:12 pm
“We just don’t want them flying their “Nazi” Gay Flag ahead of the country or the corps”
Are you forgetting that they will still be MARINES, first and foremost? Just as they are MARINES now?
Obama 2012
November 30th, 2010
3:12 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/29/AR2010112905453.html?hpid=topnews
Jay I am late to the party but no matter how many facts you present to some people, they will never support the policies of our current President. I bet many of them will use Medicare in their lifetime and take advantage of keeping their children on their health insurance past the age of 22 if they graduate from college and can not find a job where they can get get their own benefits.
?- It is funny how President Carter signed the Chrysler bailout in December 1979 and Reagan was sworn in January 1980 and we did not see a “tea party” get formed. Bush started TARP, Obama implemented it and surprise, it worked!
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
3:13 pm
USMC Dawg,
“We just don’t want them flying their “Nazi” Gay Flag ahead of the country or the corps.”
I don’t usually like to call people names, but jeez you are an imbecile when it come to gay people.
Del
November 30th, 2010
3:13 pm
jewcowboy,
I watched Gates on television report the summary. He said resistance exists within the “combat arms”. He didn’t single out the Marine Corps in his report. When you throw out percentages it doesn’t consider that the Marines are much smaller than the other branches. The stick point I think will be concern within the combat arms and the question, would it be wise to move forward with repeal during this time of war. It will be greatly debated in Congress.
AmVet
November 30th, 2010
3:14 pm
Dawg @3:01, that is what I commonly refer to as the parallel reality that some create and live in.
It is made up and only exists in your mind, whereas the poll I listed is factual, can be easily corroborated and is the one used by people living in the sentient universe.
If you don’t like that one, rest assured I can list numerous others…
Yeah, Paul, that 64 Chevy was sweet for its day!
Speaking of reality, McCain was treated worse by the neo-cons in his own party than by the liberals.
WASHINGTON — Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry’s military service “dishonest and dishonorable” and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.
The White House declined.
“It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me,” McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
3:15 pm
Bosch,
“Oh. My. Freaking God.”
To use your phrase, the stupid…it burns.
Atlanta1
November 30th, 2010
3:15 pm
Brought to you by ONN. Obama News Network; syndicated both in papers and televisions around the country.
Nice try.
USMC Dawg
November 30th, 2010
3:16 pm
Mick,
You were in the Coast Guard (which is admirable) as I recall. That is a totally different story.
You don’t just go in and destroy an Institution because of your narcissism.
While we are at it, will we institute a draft for ALL females as well?
Matti
November 30th, 2010
3:16 pm
jewcowboy,
Clearly this man has been traumatized. Perhaps defending our freedom, or (more likely) on the battlefield of love. Don’t be cruel. It’s obviously time for his cookies & thorazine, and a nice nap, bless his heart.
Del
November 30th, 2010
3:17 pm
Doggone as usual weighs in as an authority on the Marine Corps. Of course she’ll do that on any topic.
TnGelding
November 30th, 2010
3:17 pm
“In fact, seldom have so many politicians who were so mistaken about so much reaped so much benefit from being flat-out wrong.”
Blame it on the biased-liberal-media that let the GOP and other seditionists misrepresent the reality.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
3:18 pm
“While we are at it, will we institute a draft for ALL females as well?”
Why should we? We don’t have a draft for all males.
USMC Dawg
November 30th, 2010
3:18 pm
“Dawg @3:01, that is what I commonly refer to as the parallel reality that some create and live in.”
As long as you say so AmVet.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
3:19 pm
Del @ 3.13,
See my post 3.07. They will still be Marines…and I have faith in our armed forces that they can be just as professional as the 22 of 26 NATO countries that allow gays to serve openly.
TnGelding
November 30th, 2010
3:20 pm
AmVet
November 30th, 2010
3:14 pm
I hadn’t read your reality comments. Sorry to infringe.
USMC Dawg
November 30th, 2010
3:20 pm
“Why should we? We don’t have a draft for all males.”
Nice dodge doggone. Stick to welfare and handouts as your strong suit.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
3:20 pm
USMC Dawg,
“You don’t just go in and destroy an Institution because of your narcissism.”
Are you implying that Marines are incapable of handling a direct order from their commander?
Mick
November 30th, 2010
3:20 pm
dawg
Why is it different? If you are a soldier and you do your duty how does orientation affect anything?
chuck
November 30th, 2010
3:21 pm
Matti, I don’t know if I’d go that far, but back in the 80’s those of us on the “far right” heard a lot of people talking about the Foreign Relations Committee and the “New World Order”. Bush the Elder was always brought up because of his service in the CIA and his membership in the skull and crossbones society at Yale. Who knows? I will say this though, when McCain made the selection, I was shocked. I told my wife at the time that he was sabotaging his own campaign.
Bosch
November 30th, 2010
3:21 pm
jewcowboy,
“To use your phrase, the stupid…it burns.”
I think I actually got that from stands or USinUK, but please, by all means, use it — especially for something so well appropriate.
Get Real
November 30th, 2010
3:22 pm
Gosh Jay, based on this delusion it is clear you still believe in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy! It must be wonderful to live in a magical and mystical world of sugar plums and candy canes….
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
3:22 pm
“Of course she’ll do that on any topic.”
Looks like I hit a nerve.
Vinny
November 30th, 2010
3:23 pm
If Obama is doing such a bang-up job, why is the unemployment rate still hovering at 10%? Where are all of those jobs that the Obama administration claims to have created?
The reason sales are up is because the moocher class has figured out that they can spend all they want and not be responsible for it. Obama will rob from the productive to pay them off to gain their votes.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
3:24 pm
“Nice dodge doggone. Stick to welfare and handouts as your strong suit”
Ok, no dodge…to answer your implied question, IF we had a draft should we include women…my answer is yes.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
3:24 pm
Matti,
“Clearly this man has been traumatized.”
Kind of reminds me of those who focus on soldiers’ showers…their imaginations are, shall we say, quite vivid. After spending days and weeks in the field, covered in grime, I would say checking out another fellow soldier’s package would be the last thing on someone’s mind.
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
3:24 pm
Chuck,
McCain did not go wrong with Palin. He would have been the brains and she would have been the spirit.
Whether you like her or not, she has accomplished more than most men her age. You can belittle her mayorship and office of governor, but she was voted into those offices by people who knew her. No appointments. No rich parents. She reaches the majority of middle class America by being herself.. She is also wise, such as resigning as governor rather than ruin her family with dirty politics. That shows character.
Think twice before you dismiss her. She is what many Americans like and they are tired of what they have now in Washington.. Americans may want to swap a wimp for a strong woman.
USMC Dawg
November 30th, 2010
3:24 pm
Yeah, Jewcowboy, they will make it work, BUT It is watering down an institution that has done so much for this country.
The next thing you will start hearing about will be sexual harassment and “Hate” crimes.
They will start segregating themselves as being “Gay” Marines and wearing Rainbow attire, etc. because they are narcissistic.
Doggone/GA
November 30th, 2010
3:24 pm
“If Obama is doing such a bang-up job, why is the unemployment rate still hovering at 10%?”
Because jobs are, and always have been, a lagging indicator in an economic recession.
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
3:25 pm
We just don’t want them flying their “Nazi” Gay Flag ahead of the country or the corps.
Is that flag like rainbow striped with a swastika, or is it a solid backed flag with a rainbow striped swastika? I haven’t seen that one yet.
Bosch
OMFG doesn’t even do that one justice.
popeye
November 30th, 2010
3:28 pm
Dusty I’ll be glad to show you mine if you show me yours (medals that is)….
John McCain was hardly an Audie Murphy character he was an USN pilot who got shot down. If that describes a hero then by every definition every body and soul who has served is a hero!
Bosch
November 30th, 2010
3:29 pm
SoCo,
“Is that flag like rainbow striped with a swastika, or is it a solid backed flag with a rainbow striped swastika? I haven’t seen that one yet.”
USMC Dawg
November 30th, 2010
3:29 pm
“Is that flag like rainbow striped with a swastika, or is it a solid backed flag with a rainbow striped swastika? I haven’t seen that one yet.”
Well Southern Comfort, get out of your Ivory Tower.
Matti
November 30th, 2010
3:29 pm
chuck,
I’m not asking you to go “that far,” but I remember that too. There’s so much more that just doesn’t add up right when you look at the bigger picture. So many mishaps and tragedies that turned out just a little too well for some. So much information (and a few key people) just disappeared. Is this WikiLeaks guy a dangerous criminal, or is he about to blow the lid on what we need to know but was hidden from us to protect the guilty? All I know is that if you and I are waving our fists, hollering, cussing, and blaming each other, we cannot see what the people who actually wield power are doing. Our division is to their advantage, not ours, and it seems to be extremely well-orchestrated.
Mick
November 30th, 2010
3:29 pm
dusty
Ever notice that the people are perpetually tired of what they now have in washington? Palin is a dingbat and would bring more of the same divisions that currently exist but even to a greater extent. She is a winner in the private sector, that’s where she should remain.
Bosch
November 30th, 2010
3:30 pm
Dusty,
“She is also wise, such as resigning as governor rather than ruin her family with dirty politics. That shows character.”
Hi! Hope your day is swell, and….bless your heart….are you running a fever?
Paul
November 30th, 2010
3:30 pm
Doggone/GA
““You’re wandering all around Robin Hood’s barn today, aren’t you?”
Nope. You DON’T know what they advised. What do you suppose their advice was about Iraq? Take a line through the decision on THAT, to any decision about Afghanistan.”
I thought your original assertion was “Oh, and BTW, if this is to be the policy of choice…we should have attacked Saudi Arabia – not Iraq or Afghanistan”
Hey Bosch
Glad to see you returned for fun times -
@@
November 30th, 2010
3:31 pm
When I see the word —-freaking—-, my mind goes “urbanely” slang.
In order for G__d to freak, he (she in deference to Bosch) would need a body and its essential parts.
REPUBLICAN HATER!!!
November 30th, 2010
3:31 pm
republicans have ruined this country and will continue to do so trickle down did not work in the past and will never work they continue to mislead uneducated working class white americans ..they are the exact reason we are in the mess were in this country due to greedy republicans looking out for the very rich and huge corporation while dumbing down and mis leading white american thru fear too vote for them..thier is only 2% wealthy in the country but they have all the power and wealth..this is whats wrong with america…so stop blaming OUR AMERICAN PRESIDENT…. PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA
Paul
November 30th, 2010
3:31 pm
Nice segue into upstairs -
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
3:31 pm
USMC Dawg,
“They will start segregating themselves as being “Gay” Marines and wearing Rainbow attire, etc. because they are narcissistic.”
C’mon…admit it…you are just kidding around….no one is this moronic.
chuck
November 30th, 2010
3:33 pm
Dusty, I love ya, but Palin I can do without. She quit the governor’s office to CASH IN. She has made millions capitalizing on her new found celebrity that would have been unavailable to her if she was still the governor of Alaska. If I had to choose between her and Obama, I would probably vote for her because at least HER HANDLERS would be Republicans while his are dems, but there is nothing you can say to convince me that she is either qualified to be President OR that she has accomplished anything in her life that makes her deserving of it.
Joe the Plutocrat (the artist formerly known as paleo-neo-Carlinist)
November 30th, 2010
3:33 pm
JB, who was your economics professor at PSU, Joe Pa? if the goal of the stimulus bill was to “stabilize” the economy, it was a success. but since Wall Street “owns” the economy (not DC), the end result of the stimulus bill was enabling dysfunctional corporations to trim fat and hoard cash, which, as it turns out, is what “functional” companies do, regardless of asset bubbles, cheap money, or interest rates. the only thing “stimulated” by $1 trillion IOU was an increase in executive compensation and more debt. the shell game/musical chairs continues, and Obama, like any politico is simply trying to keep the music playing until he is out of office. you ever stop to think that maybe we needed a “total collapse” on Wall Street?
USMC Dawg
November 30th, 2010
3:34 pm
Jewcowboy, the “Gay” movement does it in society, so what makes you think they won’t in the services?
And moronic??? That sounds like “Hate” speech.
USMC Dawg
November 30th, 2010
3:36 pm
Why are all of you Liberals so concerned about Sarah Palin? If she is dingbat, Mick, why do guys give her so much publicity?
And Comrade Obama said there are 57 states. I guess that was just a cute little gaff, but if it was W. he would have been labelled a moron. Hypocrisy?
Del
November 30th, 2010
3:37 pm
jewcowboy, I wouldn’t get out the champagne just yet. Resistance to repeal exists within the combat arms of other branch’s as well. The Marine Corps is mostly combat infantry and even the supporting military occupational specialties are considered basic rifleman., so a greater percentage of resistance would exist among Marines. You’re correct or the General’s correct when he says that Marines will follow orders, however, that doesn’t guarantee realizing enlistment/reenlistment quotas. Obviously the combat arms are an essential component of the total military that include all branches. Any disruption within those ranks wouldn’t be acceptable in relation to our national security. The repeal of DADT isn’t a done deal by any means.
Southern Comfort
November 30th, 2010
3:37 pm
USMC Dawg
I don’t live in a tower. I live in the real world. My family has served in all 5 branches during peace time and war for as long as we could serve. Whether it was in segregated units or currently pounding sand in Afghanistan, we’ve done all we could for our country. I don’t have a personal point to gain in DADT, but I believe it is wrong to discriminate against citizens who want to serve and have served this country well. Every gay man is not out to look at your package. You need to move into the 21st Century and leave your prejudiced mentality back in the 19th and 20th centuries where it belongs.
JL
November 30th, 2010
3:39 pm
Well if TARP worked, the lousy Dem’s sure made up for it or maybe screwed it up, is a better way of putting it, with their wonderful “Stimulus” plan for UNION’s only, as in Goverment Motors.
Give me a break, but then again, you do work for the AJC, right? (Enough Said)
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
3:39 pm
USMC Dawg,
“the “Gay” movement does it in society,”
You really need to get out more.
jewcowboy
November 30th, 2010
3:41 pm
Del,
“The repeal of DADT isn’t a done deal by any means.”
Of course it isn’t. We have to let the Republican play politics with peoples lives a bit longer to scare the folks into the booths in another election. But with 70% of service members not really caring, and an equal amount in the public for repealing DADT…it seems like their hunting with a dead dog.
moddyd
November 30th, 2010
3:43 pm
http://www.publicintegrity.org/articles/entry/2565/
Del
November 30th, 2010
3:43 pm
“Looks like I hit a nerve” Your comment was foolish, however, if you call that hitting a nerve it’s okay by me.
Jeb
November 30th, 2010
3:45 pm
Thank you President Bush! You saved us from a depression! Worship the Republicans Bookman!
Dusty
November 30th, 2010
3:47 pm
Boschie, dear heart,
I do get a little hot around the collar when the two most prolific posters here who have never served in the military know all about it and how to run it and then run down the ones who have served. It do get tiresome! Not to mention the not uncommon MCP trait that keeps raising its ugly head!! A pox on them all! Bring back puppy love!!!!
Since you understand puppies (an outstanding trait), I thought you might have noticed beyond your own liberal love. . Butttttt…I guess not.
@@
November 30th, 2010
3:47 pm
While I’m not opposed to repealing DADT, I have to agree with USMC Dawg. There will be unintended consequences. My hope is that it will reflect badly on those few gays who’ll use it to further their agenda, and not those gays who wish to serve with integrity.
Huge difference between this and this
There’ll be nothing stopping thong boy from trying to join. From the looks of it, he’ll be all too eager to show his ass.
ken R
November 30th, 2010
3:50 pm
Ask the 17% of the people who are basically unemployed how well it worked. (17% according to 60 minutes, not 9.6%)
I wouldn’t trust the CBO with anything. All the Politicans did was save their friends on Wall Street at our expense. What about the loss of wages for millions of hard working people? where is that Jay?
Anything to prop up the Dems.
Conyers must have used some of that money to buy the $37,000 in concert tickets that were stolen from his car, or maybe he just used it to buy more porn, as seen with him on his plane flight.
ken R
November 30th, 2010
3:55 pm
Jewcowboy, when will you stop blaming the Republicans for not changing DADT? Obama has had plenty of time and he is also the Commander in Chief in case you have forgotten. I have no problem with it but to always blame Bush is getting a little stale.
Sa Vant
November 30th, 2010
3:56 pm
Bookman’s blog is so funny, but then that’s all he has since being demoted by the Dunwoody Journal-Constitution. And, he won’t even have that after old lady Cox Chambers croaks and the former ajc is sold or shuttered.
ALLRIGHT!
November 30th, 2010
3:57 pm
What is it with the Right?
They don’t like gays, blacks, hispanics, taxes, or the TRUTH!!!!
You guys believe anything that fits your agenda, or the really unsmart ones just
recite talking points over and over.
Think for yourself and look at the facts please. Your leaders are lying to you
to gain office. You “R’s” even elected a crook 4 a governor! C’mon!
md
November 30th, 2010
3:58 pm
Let’s not count our chickens before they hatch………….if the deficit ends up bring down the entire house, and those programs added to that deficit, then they will not be looked at as successes.
Del
November 30th, 2010
3:58 pm
jewcowboy,
I don’t know how the military survey was conducted, so I wouldn’t be able tell how accurate or inaccurate those percentages really are. Gates did say that there was resistance among the military combat arms and that it concerned him. Now how that concern will play out when it’s debated in Congress, I don’t know but I do know that any Congressman or woman regardless of party would be extremely remiss in their duty to disregard that concern without deep, unbiased consideration of its potential consequence. You may have the last word if you wish.
ken R
November 30th, 2010
3:59 pm
Chuck, I don’t think she is Presidential material either, however lets be honest, how many people here wouldn’t do what she done. Most of us never had the chance to make that much money and the sceurity that comes along with it.
I don’t fault her for doing it.
North
November 30th, 2010
4:18 pm
Jay two quick thoughts on your article:
TARP will cost the federal government ONLY $25 billion? You talk like that’s pocket change. Man that’s an enormous sum of taxpayer money.
The government bailout precedent is now firmly in place and there’s no turning back. We the people have become the de facto insurers of the too-big-to-fail companies.
killerj
November 30th, 2010
4:23 pm
For who? not the American people,tell that to about 3 million people who lost their home to government gambling,not including private business with thousands more to come and the thousands they do not include in your so called poles.What a joke,Go Tea Party time for prosecution for those involved,Goldman Sach,s for one.Thank You Jessie !
Mike Douglas
November 30th, 2010
4:32 pm
You are an absolute idiot. Adding almost two trillion dollars to the country’s debt and monetising that debt twice n the last year will be disastrous. We would have been better off by doing nothing and let the private markets work.
md
November 30th, 2010
4:37 pm
Must remember, some folks can’t see past the end of their nose…………….the good ole short term vs long term thinkers.
marky mark
November 30th, 2010
4:42 pm
@ North – I think that bailout boat floated on Chrysler…..and I want someone to define for us everyday people how big and how many employees you have to have working there for it to be too big to fail. After the last three years of my life (now working for what I made in my late 20’s) that there would be a handy piece of information to have……
RGB
November 30th, 2010
4:56 pm
I’m not sure how much more “success” America can take.
Common Sense isn't very Common
November 30th, 2010
5:42 pm
USinUK@2:07 pm
oh, and speaking of Ireland – if you ever wanted a poster child of why NOT to have 0% corporate taxes, see their current economic situation.
—————————————
But they don’y make Bushmills in New York City so there is still hope
Common Sense isn't very Common
November 30th, 2010
5:43 pm
don’y = don’t
Paulo977
November 30th, 2010
5:55 pm
kenR @3:59pm
I am really interested… what are the components of presidential material?
Lil' Barry Bailout
November 30th, 2010
6:07 pm
I’m really glad we’ve further instituted the federal government as the source of bottomless bailouts funded by the American taxpayer.
Adam
November 30th, 2010
6:59 pm
soames: Also, unemployment is still at a ridiculously high level and will remain that way for some time to come so I wouldn’t pull a Bush and call it “Mission Accomplished” yet.
Actually, if the GOP manage to block extension of UI, the number will go down dramatically fast, and credit will be claimed for stimulating the economy because of it.
pat: Let me fix your quote even futher: “The IRAQ WAR was one of the biggest colossal failures in history. Leave it to CONSERVATIVES to tout failures as successes.” Remember “Mission Accomplished?”
Also the link you provided is nothing more than an opinion piece with no facts to back up the conclusion.
So, you know why the democrats lost so badly? Because they FAILED.
Yeah, they failed to undo in less than two years what took 10 years or more to screw up. Yep, what failures!
Redneck Convert: …us Conservative Republicans believe somebody’s always got to be punished when things go wrong
Unless you’re BP. See Joe Barton – R.
pat: You realize that the stimulus didn’t add jobs
HAHAHAHA. Wow. You should look to MANY Republican members of Congress who applied for stimulus funds to do just that. Of course if you mean jobs as a whole, that’s been rising too and you need look no further than the graphs presented by Jay earlier last month above for proof of that.
Ragnar: which has subsequently produced the slowest economic recovery since the Great Depression.
Really? You’re trying to say that the Great Depression and the Great Recession recoveries are SLOW? GET OUT! Surely it’s government GETTING IN THE WAY of recovery that made the recovery SLOW. If you can’t read the sarcasm there you’re not reading hard enough. The economic recovery is slow because it was a disaster to start with and people do not have the money necessary to just put it back into the economy. The government is helping, not hurting, the recovery effort.
Left wing management: and thereby usher in a “permanent state of economic emergency” to justify its draconian policy visions.
The GOP doesn’t think that far ahead, they only think as far ahead as the next election now, and what gets their members in office. As far as memory and looking backwards, they’d rather ignore as much as possible about the past except that which they have glorified in their own minds with no evidence to back it up except feeling.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
November 30th, 2010
7:35 pm
G-d bless President George W. Bush and Dartmouth’s own Hank Paulson. They were staring into the abyss and had less than a week to correct a catostrophic problem that coul not be estimated. Two brilliant men and one effective program its a shame that Obama is trying to take credit for the program now. Obama turned a $100B profit into a $25B loss.
I wish W were back at the controls.
Bookman-Tucker-Luckovich
November 30th, 2010
9:29 pm
The whole world is so much better because The Great and Powerful Community Organizer is the smartest and most wonderful man to ever tread the Earth. Americans are just dumb. All HAIL The Great and Powerful Community Organizer.
WillieRae
November 30th, 2010
9:35 pm
TARP, passed under President Bush was an overwelming success although Obama decided to recycle the money from TARP into auto bailouts and other pet democrat priorities which will cost us a fortune.
Stimulus was a massive waste of money. Front to back. The only thing shovel ready about the stimulus was the people who voted for it.
Sid Farcas
November 30th, 2010
9:37 pm
Book Man, Obama could crap in a bucket in the name of stimulating the economy and you would call it a solid success. You are a liberal hack.
Call a turd a...
November 30th, 2010
9:38 pm
You sir are a TURD. Write in your little paper, please do not do ecomonic analsyis. BTW print news is dying a slow and painful death.
Bookman-Tucker-Luckovich
November 30th, 2010
9:40 pm
Sid Farcas
You are 100% correct, Sir.
Wake Up Georgia!
November 30th, 2010
9:40 pm
Jay, thanks for stating some facts and not an opinion. The graphic you show says it all. President Obama is a national hero for saving our country. The democrats who supported him and went down to defeat in November for their positive actions are good examples of folks who really showed profiles in courage. Folks who voted for republicans in the national elections of 2000, 2002, and 2004 were directly responsible for putting our country in a ditch. They should be held accountable, but lo and behold they came back in 2010 with more distortions of the truth. They continue to be wrong and their judgement is a threat to the well-being of this nation. It is so refreshing to have a smart president. It is unfortunate that so many folks are so jealous of him when they should be supporting with pride.
Sid Farcas
November 30th, 2010
9:41 pm
Thank you BTL, proving Book Man a liberal hack is like proving Obama a socialist. To easy.
Sid Farcas
November 30th, 2010
9:42 pm
Wake Upo Georgia, go back to sleep. You are a moron to the umpth degree. The fact that you called obama a national hero shows your competence. Or lack there of.
SFH
November 30th, 2010
9:44 pm
I can’t understand why everyone around the country thinks the AJC is for house training puppies?
Bookman-Tucker-Luckovich
November 30th, 2010
9:49 pm
Wake Up Georgia!
Obviously you prefer Washington making your choices for you. Dems who went down to defeat “profiles in courage”? LMAO!!!!! They were right and everyone else wrong? HAHAHA! Only in a Liberal mind.
Go ahead, keep voting for your Dems/Libs, keep buying the “ol’ car in the ditch” dribble, the evil rich (except John Kerry, Jay Rockefeller, etc.), Government knows all, and you will see the election of 2010 was just the tip of the iceberg. Send YOUR money to Washington.
patriot
November 30th, 2010
9:51 pm
The history books the government writes also say that the New Deal and FDR’s policies ended the first Great Depression. Those who know better know that end of FDR’s policies at the end of the War ended the depression. The government historians will surely lie about the “success” of the stimulus. Those who know better will still know better in the face of the lies and thanks to the internet, the government lies will have even less credibility than the lies about FDR and the New Deal.
lynnie gal
November 30th, 2010
10:28 pm
This stimulus was an economic success despite complete and total opposition by the (then) minority party. Now, let’s see what the Republicans in the house do to try to reverse this success and put us back into September, 2007. No doubt they will succeed in taking us back to the grand o’l Bush years.
Sorry, but I gotta call BS!
November 30th, 2010
11:38 pm
The stimulus in and of itself might have worked, but the built-in inefficiency of any government administered program reduced it’s effectiveness. We spent a ton of money and got very little (if any) bang for our buck. Massive amounts of time and money were spent on ridiculous amounts of paperwork required for permitting in today’s world. Time to kick the bureaucrats out and get back to the basics!
zeke
December 1st, 2010
12:14 am
Yeah it is working great NOT! Unemployment at about 9.5%! House prices continue to drop! Foreclosures are still escalating! What is the name of that kool-aid you leftists are drinking? Let’s see. When unemployment was holding at 4 to 5% you morons were bashing Bush for such high unemployment numbers! GM and to some respect Chrysler are forced to build cars NO ONE WANTS OR WILL BUY UNLESS OBO AND HIS MINIONS GIVE EACH ONE $7500 OR MORE OF TAXPAYER MONEY! THE AUTO COMPANIES WOULD NOT HAVE BENN IN THE DIRE STRAIGHTS THEY WERE IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR THE GOVERNMENT SUPPORT OF THE UAW CAUSING RIDICULOUS PAY AND BENEFITS CONTRACTS! THE AUTO COMPANIES SHOULD HAVE FIRED ALL UNION MORONS AND HIRED REPLACEMENTS ANY TIME THE UNION THREATENED TO OR ACTUALLY WENT ON STRIKE! REAGAN DID THE RIGHT THING WHEN HE FIRED THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS! DODD, SCHUMER, AND THE OTHER DEMS WERE THE DIRECT CAUSE OF THE HOUSING COLLAPSE! THEIR SOCIALIST STUPIDITY FORCED BANKS AND MORTGAGE COMPANIES TO GIVE LOANS TO PEOPLE WITH NO CREDIT, WHO COULD NOT PAY IT BACK, WHO IN SOME CASES HAD NO INTENTION OF PAYING THE LOANS BACK! THEN THEY PASS THE ABSURD SORBAINES/OXLEY ACT, EXCUSE THE SPELLING! THIS FORCED BANKS TO RESTATE THEIR COLLATERAL ON AN INSTANTANEOUS BASIS WHEN HOUSING WENT DOWN, CAUSING THE BANKS TO APPEAR FAILING, WHEN ACTUALLY MOST WERE NOT! GOOD OLD LEFT WING LIBERAL SOCIALISM! NOT!
Michael McCarthy
December 1st, 2010
12:24 am
The bailouts and stimuli were probably needed secondary to too much easy money lended by banks pressured by the likes of Barney Frank to lend to people who could not or would not pay their mortgages. And who asked for healthcare?
Justifying the liberal power grab is a lot harder than justifying the stimulus. And we’re not out of this by a long shot.
A more successful outcome could have been had with a more responsible fiscal policy. This is the fault of both big-spending parties.
Adam
December 1st, 2010
12:36 am
Thank you BTL, proving Book Man a liberal hack is like proving Obama a socialist. To easy.
Yes, and so are grammar and spelling. Oh wait….
Also, you all need to stop with the nonsense about socialism and how the stimulus was just wasted money. It’s pretty obvious to anyone using about 5% of their brain that this stuff actually helped our country, and anyone who can actually find the definition of words would understand it’s not socialism. When you just throw words around without some sort of understanding of meaning, then you’re just showing that all you understand is how to repeat talking points.
RTW
December 1st, 2010
2:45 am
8 pages of comments, but no one reads them all. We all react to the articles’ title, but if it was so successful, the dems would have not taken a beating this past election. If it WAS so successful Jay, why tout it now? Your timing is a little off. Or maybe it’s “Talk Radio’s” fault. TARP did NOT address unemployment, in fact it grew! ‘Nuff said!
Lies, D Lies, and Statistics
December 1st, 2010
4:55 am
I like the wide variation in amounts (2.2 more million employed, 3.2 million more FTEs). The whole affair has been estimated based on historically what the CBO believes prior government spending programs have theoretically added and was then extrapolated for the amount spent. Does anyone know how many jobs were created (last GA number said $979 milllion spent in a quarter to employ something like 29K people…didn’t use phrase jobs created). It worked out to $33 K per head employed (that’s $132 K per year to employ someone)…can’t someone be employed for less than $132k per year?
me
December 1st, 2010
5:04 am
Very interesting …tell this to jackasses like bortz, hannity, riley…..just to name a few jerks out there who are still on the loose. Obama’s policies are good…the only reason why they hate him is because he is a ‘liberal’, right???
The wit and wisdom of Rep. John Shadegg (R-AZ)
December 1st, 2010
5:49 am
[...] bill. OTOH, the Congressional Budget Office usually does a good job of sticking to the facts. History will record TARP, stimulus as major successes | Jay Bookman Jay Bookman History will record TARP, stimulus as major successes 11:24 am November 30, 2010, [...]
Lil' Barry Bailout
December 1st, 2010
5:57 am
If the “stimulus” worked, we wouldn’t have ten percent unemployment eighteen months after it was passed. Now, Jay doesn’t like hearing that ten percent figure (cognitive dissonance much?) and his supporters will in other instances disparage it because they believe it UNDERCOUNTS the unemployed, but it’s a fact. We spent $800 billion INCREASING unemployment.
Mel B
December 1st, 2010
6:06 am
Jay, the link to this story says “stimulus a Success”. Then your column goes on about how TARP was a sucess and nothing about the stimulus.
Are you conveniently leaving out that TARP was enacted by Bush or are you being intellectually dishonest to try to make Obama look good?
For the record, there is no data to support the stimulus being being any sort of success, you hack.
Jethro Bodeen
December 1st, 2010
6:20 am
You are stupid! You would follow the Pied Piper Obama off a cliff!
JDW
December 1st, 2010
10:57 am
Just trying to see if this works:
JDW
December 1st, 2010
10:58 am
Just trying to see if this works:
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JDW
December 1st, 2010
10:58 am
[url=http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons.php][img]http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/emoticon-animal-016.gif[/img][/url]
JDW
December 1st, 2010
11:47 am
/ wa ha ha
JDW
December 1st, 2010
11:47 am
: D
JDW
December 1st, 2010
11:48 am
JDW
December 1st, 2010
11:49 am
:: D:
JDW
December 1st, 2010
11:55 am
:ROTFL: