Obama backs overdue freeze on federal pay raises

Typical Obama move. Freezing the pay of the real Americans doing the hard work while him and his elitist (and terrorists) pals redistribute wealth to themselves.

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Is Obama taking a pay cut?

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sfsf
Better yet will the wages for members of congress be included in that freeze?

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Better yet will the wages for members of congress be included in that freeze?

Nope, the Bohner will still get his raise to over 300,000. All for chain smoking cigs , going to the tanning bed and yelling HELL NO!! to the people who need help.

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Now Now larry, Boehners state of Ohio has a contract with TATA consulting for IT consulting services. They don’t seem to hire any US citizens (just Indian H1b visa holders).

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This entire Obama move won’t amount to a flea-bite on an elephant’s hide. The Republicans finally have one of their own in the White House without even having to vote. But at least Obama has at long last surrendered any hope of getting re-elected. Those federal workers in DC, Virginia, and Maryland put him over the top in 2008. They’ll stay at home in 2012. That will seal the fate of Sen. James Webb as well as Obama.

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Common Sense,

“just Indian H1b visa holders”

There is a reason for H1b visa’s…namely there are not enough US citizens to adequately fill the jobs that require the skillset required.

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jewcowboy

November 29th, 2010
1:39 pm

Are there really any government employees with superior talent?

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Palin fan

November 29th, 2010
1:13 pm
“Typical Obama move. Freezing the pay of the real Americans doing the hard work while him and his elitist (and terrorists) pals redistribute wealth to themselves.”

As opposed to Palin et al who would just fire them because after all the work for, shudder the thought, the government!

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“The pay freeze would have to be approved by Congress, but with Republicans now in control of the House, I doubt that’s going to be a problem.”

Might’ve been a problem a couple months ago?

Seriously, if people choose a career in public service they shouldn’t constantly harp on private sector comparisons. Nationally, jobs in many sectors have declined. But not in public service jobs. Time to share the pain.

And that goes for local gov’ts as well.

Hi jewcowboy!

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Congress needs to vote themselves and Obama a pay reduction (they get enough money from other sources anyway). I suspect hell will freeze over first.

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StJ,

“Congress needs to vote themselves and Obama a pay reduction”

How about dropping their health coverage…like many employers have done?

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Thanks jewcowboy! I never fail to learn something when I visit here.

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Are the compassionate conservatives complaining about this yet. Give it time. After all, if Obama said it, then it cannot be good.

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Jay wrote, “That said, [freezing federal pay] also the right thing to do.”

I do not agree. This is part of the GOP and the media’s false narrative that our current economic problems primarily arise out of too much government spending, federal employees are overpaid, etcetera.

To the contrary, Obama should not nickel and dime federal workers. His only gain from this would be to give the right a symbolic reward for their misinformation (they certainly won’t give him credit for this maneuver, just claim that Obama didn’t go far enough by not firing thousands of them). The result is that less money goes into the economy and our problems continue. (How are those austerity programs working out in Europe?)

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“The result is that less money goes into the economy and our problems continue”

That was also true of the pay freeze *I* received last year.

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Here’s what Steve Benen had to say about this:

“For all I know, this might polls well. The public in general may like the idea of freezing these workers’ pay, and the move will likely generate at least tepid praise from congressional Republicans.

But it’s exceedingly annoying anyway, and I wish the White House wouldn’t do stuff like this.

For one thing, it’s really not what the economy needs. Granted, we’re not talking about a lot of money, but to grow the economy, we need workers to have more money in their pockets, not less. A pay freeze is an anti-stimulus.

For another, if the White House expects a political reward for this, officials are likely to be disappointed. Remember the discretionary spending freeze the administration talked up in January? If memory serves, the public didn’t notice and congressional Republicans complained anyway.

But what I would have really preferred to see is some kind of trade. If the president is willing to accept a civilian pay freeze, fine. I wish he wouldn’t, but that’s where he’s prepared to go. But in exchange for this concession, Obama appears to be getting literally nothing in return.

This week, the president will sit down with Republican leaders from the House and Senate, and will say something to the effect of, “Well, I signaled a willingness to make a tough concession with the pay freeze. What kind of concessions are you prepared to make?” Boehner and McConnell will reply, “We’re not willing to make any concessions at all”; the meeting will end; and we’ll be left with 2.1 million Americans with less buying power.

The president has some extraordinary strengths. Negotiating tactics do not appear to be among them.”

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_11/026834.php

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Of course you know who is part of the civilian federal gov’t? The Veterans Administration. I’m sure there is no need to give thoracic surgeons a raise…I mean its not like there is any demand for them.

Or for that matter X-ray technicians, lab technicians, or physical therapists…I’m sure they will forgo a raise and stick with the VA when they are in high demand elsewhere.

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There used to be a tradeoff, work in the public sector and get paid less, but get more security and better benefits. But now you get all three, there is no tradeoff.

And it’s not just the pay. It’s also where you have 10 people doing a job that one person could do. Not every government job is like that, but I know when I worked for the man, we wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars on extra employees. They hire someone for a job, and they are too incompetent to do it, so instead of firing that person, they hire someone else to do it, and now you have two people being paid for a job one person should have. And no, not every department is like that, but it’s an absolute fact that plenty are. And we pay for it.

Congrats to Obama for finally doing something obvious that Tea Party types have been suggesting for a long, long time!

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Don’t stop with freezing Congressional pay, how about cutting their pensions?

A congressman serves 6 years and gets a pension for the rest of his life. What a deal.

Or what about congressional health benefits? Absolutely gold-plated. It was a hoot to hear a newly Tea-Pary Congressman complain that he had to wait 30 days for his health benefits to kick-in. Pure hypocrisy. He’s against health insurance for those that cannot afford it, but he wants govt funded health care and he wants it know:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20023586-503544.html

Funny how we don’t hear about the GOP or Tea-Party talk about cutting those. I wonder why that is?

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“The claim is born out of the theory of Taqiyyah, which allows followers of the Shi’a minority to deny their faith if necessary to save their lives.”

And Christians have a similar theory. Ever heard “if you cross your fingers when you tell a lie, it doesn’t count”? That comes from a tradition that existed way back in the days of persecution that Christians endured after the death of Christ. They could, and would, deny their Christianity – but cross their fingers behind their backs to show God that they still believed.

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jewcowboy

November 29th, 2010
2:12 pm

I’m hoping the VA employees will stay.A two year pay freeze isn’t that drastic. We’ll see.

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Funny how we don’t hear about the GOP or Tea-Party talk about cutting those. I wonder why that is?

I haven’t heard the Dems talk about that either. I wonder why that is?

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While it’s a start, it doesn’t go nearly far enough. After creating countless new government agencies and rampantly expanding others while average Americans were cutting back to the bone, now Obama proposes a freeze on federal wages. How about examining every federal salary and cutting them 15-25% across the board? Do away with company cars, expense accounts, etc. And that’s not even getting into their ridiculous benefits packages that taxpayers are on the hook for.

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Paul, here’s the headline from the link you gave:
“Parent Says Santa, Christmas Colors Not Allowed In Classroom”

OTH, Media Matters has an EXCLUSIVE RESPONSE from a school district spokesperson: “In a statement to Media Matters, the school’s district spokesperson, Regina Klares, has denied this, stating, “There is not a ban on the colors red and green at Heathrow Elementary.”

Now, who is more correct? Maybe WESH should try actually interviewing the school district spokesperson too, before taking a PARENT’S word for it. It’s called research & reporting.

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pogo

Your alternate universe is really quite amazing but has no basis in reality.

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Paul,

“24 lb turkey”

“I’d rather see them pursue programs that have outlived their usefulness – ”

That would make a little more sense…but that would take political will and bipartisanship…something woefully missing in today’s politicians.

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Pogo,

“two years ago when everyone else in the country was not only NOT getting pay raises but were losing their jobs?”

Speak for yourself:

“The overall unemployment rate, right now, is 9.6 percent. That’s really high. But for people who finished college, the unemployment rate is a much less terrifying 4.7 percent. Thats hardly an economic slowdown at all. Those with advanced degrees are practically in a boom, with unemployment below three percent.”

http://www.npr.org/2010/11/24/131575218/jobless-rate-less-scary-for-college-grads

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I don’t see many reputable companies taking this risk if a domestic worker can be found with the similar skillset. The key, of course, being similar skillset.

But I could be wrong. Logic doesn’t always work in the corporate world.

Oh, come on! Don’t tell me that with millions of computer programmers and systems analysts unemployed in this country, the only way to fill a vacancy for one of these jobs is to import a foreign worker. I’m calling BS on that. I’m reminded of one of the early jobs I had, in which a vacancy occurred for a marketing representative. With hundreds of thousands of US marketers out there, the senior VP in the division had his heart set on hiring an old buddy, who happened to be Canadian. In six months, this Canadian had his H1b in hand. The federal bureaucracy evidently decided that there was absolutely no one in the United States who was qualified to do the job. The delicious irony was that the senior VP had to fire his buddy for ineffectiveness in two years.

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Curious Observer,

“Don’t tell me that with millions of computer programmers and systems analysts unemployed in this country, the only way to fill a vacancy for one of these jobs is to import a foreign worker.”

Citation please. And please make it an apples to apples skillset comparison. Thanks!

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True, but it’s a zero sum game. Federal employees are paid from our taxes. If their pay is frozen, that means what *I* have to contribute won’t increase…which means *I* will get to spend it. Either way, it gets spent.

Are you sure about that Doggone? It sounds a bit confusing to me.

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Oh, come on! Don’t tell me that with millions of computer programmers and systems analysts unemployed in this country, the only way to fill a vacancy for one of these jobs is to import a foreign worker.

That is the only way to fill a vacancy if you’re paying $30k for a job that ordinarily would pay $90k. Just sayin…

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Southern Comfort,

“the last thing that some areas need is for government employees to cut back on their personal spending. ”

So then we should pay them more…with the admonishment that they have to spend it or lose it. I’m not against a pay freeze, companies do it all the time. I have a problem with an across the board freeze, as it will likely lead to “brain drain” in critical areas.

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ZEDD….Who are these federal employees who get a “company car” as well as an expense account? Questioning minds would like to know.

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Today is November 29.

BONER, WHERE ARE THE JOBS CREATED FROM THE BUSH TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY?

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Don’t hate me because I’m federal, Jay.

Damnyankee…

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Now, if we can just get rid of government pensions . . .

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Well, I come back all happy from Burger King and things are going to pot (as usual). Bookman is posting on the wrong blog, So Co is smart enough to do screening without even looking. Doggone wants to spend her own taxes . Jewcowboy wants to give his job to an unemployed IT (if necessary), All we need now is AmVet singing Christmas carols. But there is some good news.

Burger KIng employees are politically correct. They did NOT say Merry Christmas. They said “”What will you have?”" See what I mean.

Well, I’m incorrect PC. HAPPY NOEL!!!!!

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JewCowboy- Relating to my earlier statement about how many departments of the governemnt have 10 people doing a job 1 could do, and your response that that happens in the private sector, too…

Not so much anymore, notice the massive layoffs over the last couple of years? Companies that hired 10 people for 1 job are no longer in business, or they got rid of the extras to be more efficient. The government, on the other hand, has hired more people, and continued to expand, with this pay freeze being the only sign anyone in D.C has a clue. So basically your response wasn’t well thought out. If the private sector happily hired 10 people for the job of 1, then there wouldn’t be so many people looking for jobs now.

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LOL @ Mick…

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Jimmy62,

“notice the massive layoffs over the last couple of years?”

Notice when I call AT&T about an erroneous charge I get passed to 9 different people and the 10th hangs up on me?

Bureaucracy is bureaucracy no matter public or private. The private company may have laid off some people, but how do yo know they laid off the right people?

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If they were serious about this, Congress could start with themselves. They could start by rescinding the automatic pay increase that they get every year, without even having to vote on it.

It’s bad when anyone loses their job but I do find it interesting, that while this country has been bleeding blue collar jobs for 30-40 years, it’s just in the last few years when it started to hit the white color sector, that many got upset about it.

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I was offered a job for a Sr. QA Analyst in Lowell Mass (I live in SC). The job paid $50,000 a year.

The per diem rate in Lowell Mass is $22.50 per hour. After living expenses that comes to $1.50 per hour.

Hard to live on that. And oh yeah they found an H1b who would do it. The recruiting company set him up in an apartment with 3 other H1bs (and paid for it).

Recruiting companies are staffed with Indian recruiters that only want to recruit H1bs it is impossible to prove descrimination because they basically say ‘this is the rate, take it or leave it).

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Gale,

“Do you really all think those people would go elsewhere because of a year or two raise freeze? ”

Would you pass up 2 years of raises if someone else was offering more? Perhaps a gov’t employee would, as their average tenure is 7.2 yrs to the private sectors 4.0 yrs…of course that might be the reason they are paid more…

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Gale

The people who have critical skills just might jump ship if another job is offered with better pay & benefits. That’s one of the reasons many government agencies have high turnover rates. I’ve seen a good bit of turnover in my current agency. Some switched to other agencies, and others left the government altogether.

HD

We will see affordable all-electric cars before that happens. I’m waiting myself to see if congress does ax their increase as well.

Bosch

You know better than to ask a question like that. You’re practicing that gotcha’ journalism again.

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SoCo,

Well, Jimmy made it seem like it was some kind of major governmental practice to hire 10 people to do one job — at least that’s how I took it.

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Bosch @ 3:26,

It’s called “wage suppression” and it’s an essential element in the plan.

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J-O-S-E-F,

Please come here happy. Folks been griping all day and I’m stuck at the computer because I’m having my floors redone and I can hardly move except to back out the door to Burger King. Now smile.. right…that’s it!!! Thank you….( and happy holidays etc . etc. ).

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IT worker (unemployed),

“And oh yeah they found an H1b who would do it. The recruiting company set him up in an apartment with 3 other H1bs (and paid for it).”

Just curious…how did you find out who was hired…as well as their living arrangements?

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DUSTY

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! I’m in a pretty good mood…

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This only takes away the COLA. It does nothing to keep people from moving up pay grades or steps (increases within a grade). All this does is freeze the pay chart.

While a symbolic step in the right direction, it does nothing to address the problem of too many people working for the government, and those employees geting paid many time more than they would get in the private sector.

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“The best thing for the administration to do is propose all deficit reduction measures together, instead of offering boutique cuts. Republicans have proposed $100 billion in cuts, which show serious intent.”

I love how some statements can show just how insanely uninformed the average American is.

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those employees geting paid many time more than they would get in the private sector

Try running that line by the scientist and doctors at the CDC and VA Hospitals. I’d even like to see you deliver that line to all the lawyers in the DOJ. That would be priceless comedy.

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Southern Comfort,

“what doublespeak will emerge from the new majority in Jan when they have to decide on their “automatic” increase.”

2011 Congressional Performance Remuneration Package?

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JKL2,

“and those employees geting paid many time more than they would get in the private sector.”

Source citation please.

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Points to Mr. Joe above: “I do not agree. This is part of the GOP and the media’s false narrative that our current economic problems primarily arise out of too much government spending, federal employees are overpaid, etcetera.”

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Josef,

Thank you and I feel mucho better. There’s still happiness out there. I send you some of my walnut covered banana nut bread via the wireways (with cream cheese). No good deed goes unrewarded.

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Source citation please.

Uh oh. Looks like put up or shut up time.

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Heh… heh heh…

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jewcowboy@3:42 pm

IT worker (unemployed),

“And oh yeah they found an H1b who would do it. The recruiting company set him up in an apartment with 3 other H1bs (and paid for it).”

Just curious…how did you find out who was hired…as well as their living arrangements?
——————————-

I spoke to a friend who worked there in the IT dept. (only reason I was thinking of going) and she knew where all the contractors were staying etc. also how much the contracting company was paid (a helluva lot more than the contractors themselves lol)

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“Your Boehner got you paid? What IS that second job?”

Damn. A decent sip of Coca Cola wasted through the nose.

[shaking my fist in the air] JOSEF!!!!

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RIP to Leslie Nielson.

Freeze the civilian pay for government workers and give the troops on the fronts lines a raise !!

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The pay advantage enjoyed by private-sector workers over federal employees grew to 24 percent in 2010, two percentage points higher than in 2009, according to data the Office of Personnel Management released Friday.

“There is a great deal of misinformation being advanced, largely for partisan political purposes, that federal employees are overpaid,” NTEU President Colleen Kelley said. “In fact, the opposite is true.”

See http://www.federaltimes.com/article/20101101/BENEFITS01/11010302/

But, as Southern Comfort points out, we shouldn’t be destroying myths.

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“You have to remember which anonymous blogger constantly packs heat. ”

So many lines, so little time…

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Full disclosure: I am a federal employee. I am also high educated and have a skillset that’s not easy to find, especially in an American citizen – graduate educated mathematics. I have 10+ years experience. My yearly pay is ~90K. In the private sector I could command $120K. Why do I go public rather than private? I just really like my job. I worked private sector when I was entry-level and didn’t move to public until I was mid-level. The pay at mid-level between public and private was more comparable. Back then private was paying 65K and public was paying 60K. Since my husband had just entered the workforce after his graduate studies we could afford for me to take a 5K pay cut because he went from 0K to 50K that same year.

But why did I do it? The job, itself, was more rewarding on an intellectual level. It provided me with more chances to be innovative and daring. The private sector work was restrictive and new ideas were often squashed because they didn’t want to risk the bottom line for a new idea. Also, the public sector was more open to teleworking than the private sector, despite having space issues. At the time I lived 36 miles away so that made my life easier. I live closer now but it’s still nice to telework. Also, I feel safer in speaking my mind about a project. In the private sector it was hard to do that because the project leader could make trouble for you if you disagreed with him/her. In the public sector I have more autonomy in that regard and if I see something bad about a project plan I can cry foul without fearing retaliation.

All in all, I really like my job in the public sector. And even though the federal government does NOTHING that does not protect or promote it’s own interests I still get personal satisfaction in working for my country. And that’s something money can’t buy.

So, all that…

I am not angry with this pay freeze because symbolically we don’t need to be getting within-grade/step increases when our employers (the taxpayer) are suffering. I don’t think it will make a big difference in the problem, but okay. I’m on board with a little bit of nickel and diming. I’m on board with the symbol of leaving the military out because of the dangerous nature of their job and their fairly low pay, just as I am for not cutting pay for police and firefighters, etc. I’m okay with not dissing the postal worker because they make squat already.

BUT NOT when the highest paid are excluded – Congress, staffers, and the federal court system.

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iRun,

“Also, the public sector was more open to teleworking than the private sector”

Very salient point.

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So many lines, so little time

Hey, if we can have a Boehner running the House, what’s wrong with me packing?

Sorry, just couldn’t help it!!!

iRun

You get the post of the day for your 4:05 entry. Thunderous applause!!!!

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BTW, the private sector is trying to lure me away all the time. That’s how I know what salary I could command should I choose to leave the public sector. They want me because my tenure in the public sector has allowed my skillset to grow QUITE large, beyond even my scientific area. They know that because I am semi-senior level analyst that I have had complete control over the data domain in very, very large projects with large budgets. They also know I know the rules of how the government works and a very many of these private sector jobs intersect with the government on different levels so they want that knowledge base informing their projects.

That’s why I get approached by the private sector.

But for now I don’t want to go there because I really like where I am (and I have to consider the spouse, who is making headway in his career and it wouldn’t be fair to ask him to uproot). Maybe after 20-30 years in the public sector I will retire (no pension, just a 401k style retirement package) and then hire out my public sector enhanced skills to the private sector for a freaking mint. It’s a pretty common thing for people like me to do.

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Southern Comfort,

“if we can have a Boehner running the House, what’s wrong with me packing?”

Well, before Pelosi I think the House was always run by one…

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jewcowboy- Source citation please

google AJC, Bob Barr

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I am not fooled.

Heh.

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Josef, 4:17

I don’t have a bone to pick with you (???) but would you explain like you would to other teachers at lunch time? I’m a bit slow on boy things obviously.

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jewcowboy – it happens all the time. My mentor in my current job did the same thing. Now the company he works for has access to all the high-level leadership he had access to. I mean…networking is worth a lot.

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Ragnar,@ 4:18

Words of wisdom as usual. You should come more often. We need more voices “calling in the wilderness”.

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DUSTY

(Forgive me Granny for saying these things to a lady!) Boner–woodie, hard-on, stiffie, erection…

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JAY

Now just lookie at what the Blue Nosed B*tch let go through!

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SoCo

Or packing heat…

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josef

Good thing I wasn’t drinking anything at 4:34…

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Josef, @ 4:30

Oh THAT! Why didn’t just say so? I hate subtleties. (Bad boy, bad boy, what cha gonna do when they come for you??? signed granny)

I knew it was “bad” when Bosch laughed so hard.

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Hmmm

I see I am the ONLY one who doesn’t belong to the little boys club. Kiddies!! I’m telling!!!

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http://www.facepalm.com/

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Hey guys …. This moonbat Dusty thought a DINGLEBERRY was something one would make a pie of……

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Hillbilly

That one is just so wrong at so many levels!

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Ragnar Danneskjöld

November 29th, 2010
4:41 pm

Give your son a big ole SALUTE from me! And Merry Christmas too!

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NO, popeye,

I thought a dingleberry was someone like you and that needs no explanation.

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“An Atlanta blog with a little bit of opinion about a whole lot of things”

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Dear Scooter @ 4:48, thanks, will do. At 26 he has already done more with his life than I ever will. And he will be an admiral some day.

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josef nix,

“And…?”

Get momma’s little helpers…and the bottle of Makers.

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SoCo

“We can’t help it if our House of Representatives is going to be led by the wang!!”

D*mned Chinese….

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Southern Comfort,

“We can’t help it if our House of Representatives is going to be led by the wang!!”

The head wang in charge.

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This party’s getting dirty. I’m going to put my clothes on and go home…

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RW-(the original)

November 29th, 2010
4:55 pm

Watch it RW. That girl is my step daughter! :LOL:

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JOSEF! Stop it. I can’t breathe now .

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Southern Comfort@4:30 pm

Contracting & Privatization

Now if Congress were serious about reducing the budget, that’s an area that could reap benefits. However, too many palms have been greased and pockets lined to stop those programs.
——————————————————————–

Let’s offshore the IRS call line to India. If you think you can’t get a decent answer now LOL, try one in another language.

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RW-(the original),

Kwanzaabot: Yo, Kringle! What happened to you, doll?
Bender: Oh, it’s awful, Kwanzaabot. Everyone hates me.
Kwanzaabot: At least they understand you, you know what I’m sayin’? Ain’t nobody down with this Kwanzaa tip.
Bender: Hey! Maybe you could lend me a hand with these deliveries.
Kwanzaabot: No time! I gotta hand out the traditional Kwanzaa book… I’ve been givin’ these out for 647 years!

http://kevindelury.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/186_what-the-hell-is-kwanza_1600.png?w=300&h=225

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josef nix

November 29th, 2010
4:52 pm
jewcowboy

“Get to your room…”

And…?
———————————–

Do something with that thang

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Mickey, if you are looking for people in “alternative universes” you have to look no further than the mirror because you obviously are living one. I have no problem with that because some of the best ideas come from that place. In fact, I take great pride in sometimes living there.

Jewdude, do you really think that having a college degree makes much of a difference nowadays? What you are basically saying is that if we had a nation made up of college graduates our un-employment would be much lower. Sorry man, that just doesn’t stack up. Somebody has to do the grunt work and right now one can make a better living having plumbing skills than one can having an MBA. Welcome to the new world. As I have said before I work in a highly technical field and there are tons and tons of Engineers out there that just cannot find jobs and when they do, they are low paying. And the quality of the engineers that American universities are turning out are terrible. Thus we import them from India and wherever else we can find them. America has lost its edge because of liberal politics.

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common sense

And a Merry Christmas to you, too…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaEC-lWSlmI

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Support this 100%. It’s time federal employees (and retirees like myself) help reduce the deficit amount BEFORE Obama blew it wide open !

What hypocrisy.

By the way, what’s the latest on “Lipgate”? Has the swelling gone down?

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Interesting read RW, but it runs counter to some of my research.

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Fred,

It may or may not make a difference but that article is from 2002.

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America has lost its edge because of liberal politics.

Sure, if you think education and employability matter. The silver lining, of course, is that a dumbed-down populace is a BOON for the Republican Party and the Tea Party faction thereof. Woo-hooo! Fewer and fewer people control more and more of the money, and they’re stashing it offshore to avoid taxes. Future’s so bright, gotta wear SHADES, man!

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UnitedHealth 2011 Profit Will Fall as U.S. Mandates Spending on Patients

Oh! The Horror! How could Obama do this to US!

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I liked the part of the story where he became a marxist and everybody thought how good it was that he moderated

That one brought tears to my eyes from laughing so hard.

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Scout,

“By the way, what’s the latest on “Lipgate”?”

At least it wasn’t a pretzel

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RW, my research was conducted last year or the year before.

Fred,

There’s a couple of ways of looking at that. It might be that they had a less distorted body of information to research than you did a few years later.

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Or a shotgun

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SoCo – I try real hard not to judge a situation based just on the first reports, but I’ve always thought that when it comes to that hunting “incident” “the half wasn’t told us” and that we’ll never really know the whole truth about it.

And for anyone about to ask, nope, I have no facts to base that opinion on…it’s just my opinion.

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Try the ‘lone ranger and his trusty sidekick tonto’ with the spanish meaning of ‘tonto’ LOL

Pogo@5:18 pm

Jewdude, do you really think that having a college degree makes much of a difference nowadays? What you are basically saying is that if we had a nation made up of college graduates our un-employment would be much lower. Sorry man, that just doesn’t stack up. Somebody has to do the grunt work and right now one can make a better living having plumbing skills than one can having an MBA. Welcome to the new world. As I have said before I work in a highly technical field and there are tons and tons of Engineers out there that just cannot find jobs and when they do, they are low paying. And the quality of the engineers that American universities are turning out are terrible. Thus we import them from India and wherever else we can find them. America has lost its edge because of liberal politics.
—————————————

I agree and disagree with your statement.

This country has always needed workmen who are good with their hands be they plumbers, masons, electricians etc. they too should be paid a living wage.

But as to the Computer Science grads who cannot find employment or are unemployed. I disagree completely. I have an advanced degree and 30+ years experience.

So what you are saying is that all others in this same boat cannot do the work of the H1bs brought into this country.

Look on Dice or Monster any day of the week and see the number of mainframe positions open. Then look at the recruiters name. There are a large number of them Indians. They will not hire a US citizen. The rates are also way too low to relocate and yes they do not like to pay T&L expenses for the recruit.

If you have a family would you be willing to pay all expenses to uproot them from say Atlanta to Chicago for a 6 month contract that did not pay expenses. The H1b’s will.

Sorry about the rant but I have been living this since 2003 and yes the republicans allowed the continuation of the H1b visas without enforcement of its requirements. Thanks to big business.
Also thanks to Clinton starting the whole H1b mess and NAFTA.

Saving money for a company does no good when there is no one to buy their product.

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Philosophical question. What’s worse, blaming God for your dropping a pass or assuming God was subscribing to your Twitter feed?

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RW

Well, as G-d said to Job when he asked a similar question, “I dunno, Job, there’s just somethin about you that p*sses me off!”

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Where are all the jokes about obama’s injured lip? Everyone sure had a field day with Cheney shooting his friend in the face. Don’t equal rights demand the same with obama? Leno? Letterman? Stewart? Anyone…..anyone?

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BADA BING,

I think tonight will be the first chance any of those guys will have had to joke about Michelle hitting him with that ashtray the basketball injury.

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Hillbilly

More cussin in public…same here! I do my share and then some here on the blog, but I wasn’t raised to do that out in public. I was taught it just isn’t proper manners befitting a lady or gentleman…it’s funny, but folks are always complimenting our kids on how “nice” they are and how they “never use bad language!” Whoo-whee…maybe not in public! But, funny thing, they never use foul language when talking to us…

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jewcowboy: “Yes, quite a few. you can thank gov’t workers for the the medium in which we are conversing, among other things.”

Actually, you can thank an engineer at Xerox’s Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) for the medium in which we are conversing. Without a viable networking standard, the internet was doomed to be just a localized phenomena.

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Hillbilly D, and josef,

Around my neighborhood lots of the young ones do their cussing in English because their parents don’t know what they’re saying.

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Eat seafood from The Gulf of Mexico.

The oil spill was a big distraction.

Just eat it… !!

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RW

First words kids learn in any second language! Two weeks on the playground, and they can cuss like a sailor on leave…! And the thing with the parents…we’re always getting parents who want to know what this or that phrase means…sometimes you hate to tell them, but they need to know!

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josef, RW

Maybe I’m just getting old but it never ceases to amaze me, the language you hear in places like stores and fast food places, where there are kids everywhere.

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Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

You can’t even believe what you see, since they invented Photoshop.

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A pay freeze is bull-crap, Jay, and you know it.

The US Government must cut its costs by at least 10% immediately. That means layoffs at EPA, Department of Energy, WH executive staff, DOE, and HHS for starters. Then move into DHS.

A “pay freeze” is nothing more than PR designed to provide lefties like Jay with cover so Obama can continue to implement his socialist policies designed to destroy our freedoms while claiming he’s “making the hard choices.”

Pathetic.

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That means layoffs at EPA, Department of Energy, WH executive staff, DOE, and HHS for starters. Then move into DHS.

Any logic behind the order of those agencies, or are they just ones you think are useless?

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PAUL

Happy Birthday, Baby Jesus!

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josef

I thought you’d like those.

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BADA BING
@ 7:08
That’s TOO good!

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A security camera videotape from the gym where obama was injured has 3 seconds of footage missing. And what was that strange, shadowy image moving under the bleachers?

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And what was that strange, shadowy image moving under the bleachers?

What goes on under the bleachers, stays under the bleachers.

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And what was that strange, shadowy image moving under the bleachers?

DADT!!!!

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The Drudge report has images of what appears to be blood spatter on Michelle’s dress, who was reportedly at a luncheon 25 miles away when the ‘Accident’ happened. Who knew what and when did they know it?

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RW

My favorite Yankees are the ones who go to the trouble of learning the native language when they immigrate…truth be told, those who master it are true geniuses and wits of the highest order…My Yankee Repbulican brother-in-law can turn a phrase that makes you forget for a few minutes that he’s a furriner…

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BADA

No, what DO you mean? In my case it was the quarterback!

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As a Federal employee, I’m pissed. It’s bad enough that our raise percentage and agency funds have been dwindling since George W. Bush entered the office and began his ludicrous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now, Obama is entering the game by freezing our paychecks for the next two years. And to throw an even bigger bone to the Republicans, the military is being exempted. Does this mean that the Congressmen and Senators will have their paychecks cut as well? I hope so, but I rather doubt it. That is something that most of the Republicans will never support.

If you’re hoping for a Democrat more liberal than Barack Obama in the White House, forget it. You won’t get one. Liberal Democrats hardly ever make it to the White House. Only conservative Democrats like Obama, Clinton, Kennedy and Johnson.

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josef, like I always say…..Don’t ask, Do tell !

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BADA

Sorry about the fantasy! Mine was reality! Of course when the head cheerleader found out, I got the worst ass whuppin I got in high school! That b*tch was p*ssed off big time! Course I couldn’t hit back, being a Southern gentleman of culture and breeding, but that girl’s field hockey buddy took care of my ego!

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BADA,

Allow me to restore your fantasy even as josef has it under attack

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Rosie

“the military is being exempted. ”

I’ll get back on my soap box and say, not only should the military be included in the pay freeze, many of their bonuses that, like many other federal programs, have outlived their usefulness, should be done away with, completely.

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Common Sense

RW

I couldn’t get your link to work, but I have an idea of what it was based on the ip address.

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Paul

Obama is simply offering up a GOP solution. You know there’s no way in hell the GOP will cut anything defense related.

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BADA

Somebody said somebody going by the initials LBJ had something to do with it…

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josef

I finally got it to work, and yes it was definitely worth it!!

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SoCom

“And they call me a cockeyed OP-timist…”

Democrats either, for that matter.

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josef, we had an Asian guy who ran high hurdles in high school who was terrible at it. His name…….. Wan Hung Lo.

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BADA

The cutlines we came up with for that one were, well, colorful…

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Paul

Yep, you understand it!! People are oohing and aaahhhing over this pay freeze when, in actuality, it doesn’t amount to a pimple on a teenager’s ass.
#1 It only involves the Executive Branch. That leaves 2/3 of the government unaffected.
#2 It only freezes cost of living increases. That’s usually between 1%-4% a year on average. Might not have been a COLA this year anyway because of the economy.
#3 Regular grade and step increases will still happen. Depending on the increase amount, that could potentially be more than what the COLA adjustment would be.

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dave r

If you look at the past 30 years, which party has held power longer? Clinton sold out with nafta and glass/steagall and was rewarded with impeachment. Another precious waste of time by that other party. True reality says that the predicament that we find ourselves in did not begin on 1/2009. Democrats are certainly not blameless but the repubs had their hand on the switch in congress (94-06) and the white house in 2000. Seems like that is the difference in where we are today.

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Mick

We’re where we’ve been all along…same song and dance, different tune…

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When the layoffs start hitting, it will not be funny when the others possibly have a slowdown to prove they NEEDED the workers that were layed off.

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SoCo – what you said about being downrange and guns…I used to date a guy that was in the Reserves. He got sent home from training for knocking out a fellow soldier. The guy he hit was parading around with a loaded gun on his shoulder and when someone called his name he turned sharply around and ended up with the loaded gun pointing straight at my boyfriend – who promptly knocked him down AND out.

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“If you look at the past 30 years, which party has held power longer? ”

Uh, that would be the Democrats in Congress, Mick. Congress has the majority of the power because they control the purse strings.

Try again.

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josef nix 7:51

Okay, so I’m a sucker for musicals like South Pacific –

SoCom 7:58

You had three points, so I’ll keep this brief: yup, yup and yup.

Pleasant evening, all -

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popeye

Oh, for the love of Mike, lighten up…BTW from downstairs and the attack out there in O-ree-gone,,,them white folks are shore a tolerant lot, ain’t they! ISH…insert smile here…and in case you havent’t been paying attention, Sister Hillary is my and @@ choice in 2008 (and for me, if she runs, 2012)

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If layoffs are decided on how is the decision to be made?

Will they be made like in big corporations?

Will they be based on who is the least productive?

Will they be based on who makes the most money?

Will they be based on longevity?

Interesting concepts to muddle over, eh?

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I think he can do it under executive order, but let’s wait and see the fine print. They’ll get a raise someway, hook or crook. He should have taken action about a year ago.

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Just a quick question about the Oregon Christmas Tree Bomber……….I forget, in the 12 Days of Christmas, what day was I supposed to get the exploding backpack? Before or after the Lords a Leaping?

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BADA

“Five bombers bombing….”

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And while the White House would probably deny it, it’s pretty obvious that Obama’s move is a direct response to the midterm results.

That said, it’s also the right thing to do.

Is conservative ass tasty? is that why you feel compelled to kiss it so often, Jay?

blech. gross. Disgusting.

shame on you.

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TnGelding

I really think she would have had a chance, She had substance and was more than a drag show (hair-do notwithstanding ). As far as mopping up the carnage. I would tend to agree on that one…same thing if she takes on Fierce Adovocate in 2012…but as the sexist North Carolinian said, she’s got cajones….

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the Neveda primary was the turning point for Obama over Hillary. The uinons pushed Obama into the lead; and from my conservative viewpoint Obama has not failed in paying them back.

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Warren Buffet says it best:
“There’s no sacrifice among the rich. There’s plenty of sacrifice going on now,” Buffett said. “I mean, if you look at Iraq and now Afghanistan, there’s been sacrifice. But I would doubt if you take the people on the Forbes 400 list — whether many of them have a child or a grandchild that served in Iraq or Afghanistan — they come home in body bags to Nebraska, but they don’t have to call up anybody up at the country club to notify them.”

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What’s all this candy a$$’d $hit about Obama freezing federal workers compensation. He knew that would happen anyway come next month. I’m more concerned with this P.O.S. Julian Ass ange and that little dilbert PFC who for what ever reason had access to all this confidential information that she downloaded and turned over. The damage has been done, however, Assange should soon suddenly disappear off the face of the Earth and Manning should be doing hard time to the extent that after his first few years you could drive a Honda Civic with the doors open up where he sits down. Where in the hell is Obama on this serious breach.

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common sense
@ 8:54

and that’s a fact! She says “Froggie” and he says “jump how high?”

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But he does it as a soprano these days

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“have you been asleep today” no but I’ll bet you’ve either been sleeping or pissing away your day blogging. Probably not too far off, am I?

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Probably not too far off, am I?

um no. you couldn’t be farther off if you tried.

anyone who had access to a halfway decent news source would know where the Administration was on this issue.

Off to watch some football…

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Hillbilly Deluxe@9:09 pm

This could serve as a cautionary tale……….

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/111434/familys-fall-from-affluence-is-swift-and-hard

———————————–

I read that the other day. Trying to keep up with the Jones or in his case family did his family in financially.

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JohnnyReb,

Nevada was a surprise to the Clinton camp but their whole strategy was wrapping up the nomination on Super Tuesday. They really had no plan for after that and when ST was pretty much a tie she was all but toast. Democrats allocated their delegates within states so even though she was able to regroup and win some big states late she couldn’t overcome his lead. Her only chance was to stay in and hope to sway the “super delegates” at the end.

stands,

When Obama had a press availability to announce this fantasy about wage freezes doing anything meaningful he refused, in advance, to take any questions about the leaked docs. That pretty well set the image for “where’s Obama on this”, although I’m in the camp that thinks he’s probably right to keep from drawing Presidential attention to the leaks.

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hillbilly, common sense

Interesting read…reminds me of an old Southernism, “just flying too high for his little ole sky…”

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H.D., by no means impossible, it’s still very difficult for the average man to piss away 10 million dollars in 10 years.

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I saw a program on TV once about how many people who’ve won the huge lotteries, eventually wind up broke. I agree though, if you get $10 million, free and clear and lose it, you really have nobody to blame but yourself. I mean damn, you could spend $250k a year for 40 years. Who really needs to do that?

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It seems that gov’t workers are just the whipping boys/girls of the deficit hawks?

And Peterike — our regulatory agencies are all ready cut to the bone– but maybe your game is population control through the deaths that come from unregulated food, toys, factories, drugs and the like.

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Well, I guess we can now include that rich family in with the rest of those “poor things” and take care of them with others money for the good of all.

Too bad many of the folks paying for them will never get to spend the crap out of their own 10 million.

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Happy St. Andrews Day to all my fellow Scots and Scot hybrids!

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Never mind that this is a politically stupid move; it’s also bad economics. Federal workers with less money coming in will necessarily spend less money on goods and services, thereby decreasing demand, which is what drives job creation.

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I agree with the pay freeze. Us social security people had to live with it

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md (8:31): It is clear this means less money coming into the economy, and thus helping to slow the economic recovery; if you don’t grasp that easily and intuitively, I’m not sure how to convince you. And it is all well and good to empathize with the unemployed (making sure unemployment benefits are extended would be a better move than sust feeling for them, however). But what does the number of unemployed have to do with freezing the pay of people with jobs? Nothing. Think about it for a second, sincerely. Where is there a connection other than a nebulous sense of “shared sacrifice.” Why should federal employees sacrifice a pay increase at this point in time? I have yet to hear a valid reason; it gets down to pure symbolism and the myth that feds are overpaid. You might as well choose to arbitrarily punish the whole country through raising their taxes; such a move would be just as sensical. The reality: the recommended federal civilion pay increase is calculated just as the miltary increase (although the military sometimes gets a bit extra tacked on; choose to agree with that or not) and the military is getting a 1.9% increase next year (versus the scheduled 1.4% increase for civilians). The proposed increase isn’t pulled out of thin air; it is based, in part, on private sector wage trends, and despite ongoing high unemployment, private sector wages are rising slowly (really, despite plenty of people having to take cuts, wages in general are going up) (as an aside, the fed wage increase is calculated differently than Social Security COLA increase, so that is why SS was frozen last year and this year while fed civilian pay was scheduled to be increased 1.4%). I’m a federal employee, so obviously this hits me directly. But separate from the 1.4% cut this means for me next year, and the ~2% cut(1.4% this year, and about the same naxt year) it means next year (and each and every year thereafter), what bugs me most is that this was an arbitray and nonsensical move. There is no justification for it based on the wages federal employees make; it was simply a symbolic move pulled out of… the sky. But it is a symbolic move that will suppress my wages, and the wages of millions of other people, for their entire careers. It won’t do much to help the deficit. and it will help to slow down the economic recovery in the short term. It is economic nonsense and political bs at the expense of millions of (mostly) hard working dedicated individuals.

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I am typically a conservative. I just started a federal job and took a massive pay cut to do so. Now my less than $15 an our is frozen for 2 years. They could save a lot more money chopping at the top. Congress, senate, the presidents staff. They could all afford pay cuts. I agree something had to be done. But, with our benefit costs going up significantly this is not good for lower paid federal employees. We will spend less and it will affect the economy.

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