North Korea: A bratty little punk with nukes
North Korea has fired an intensive artillery barrage at a South Korean island, killing two South Korean soldiers and setting dozens of buildings ablaze. Experts say the attack is somehow linked to the transfer of power from North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il to his son, Kim Jong-un.
South Korean President Lee Myung-bak has told his own military to ”respond sternly” but also to avoid aggravating the situation, which is a pretty narrow line to walk with such an unpredictable, irrational enemy. But it’s hard to envision a feasible alternative: The fact that North Korea is once again behaving like an 11-year-old juvenile delinquent with a mean streak argues strongly for responding to force with greater, even overwhelming force. The fact that the delinquent in question is armed with nuclear weapons and the world’s largest arsenal of artillery — much of it aimed at downtown Seoul, a city of more than 10 million people — takes that approach off the table.
The only strategic option is to play for time, putting off confrontation until North Korea collapses in upon itself, as it inevitably must. That’s when the fun will really start, as South Korea and China maneuver for position. Neither country is particularly eager to take responsibility for the mess that North Korea has become, but neither wants to surrender that role to the other.
As I’ve noted before, some problems can only be managed, not solved. North Korea continues to epitomize that kind of challenge.
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174 comments Add your comment
Southern Comfort
November 23rd, 2010
12:12 pm
I can answer that…NO, we cannot.
And that is my point. The best way to handle a bully is to pop him hard in the mouth. However, when you do that, it’s best to be prepared for a big fight. The hard pop might be enough to make him quit, but it might also be enough to make him want to fight. We could possibly manufacture the equipment for a 3rd engagement, but where do you find the troops? We’ve already run our current military to near exhaustion from the repeated deployments. A 3rd engagement will force a draft to supply enough troops. Even then, you’ll be saddled by the length of time it would take to train those troops and have them ready for battle.
Doggone/GA
November 23rd, 2010
12:16 pm
“Even then, you’ll be saddled by the length of time it would take to train those troops and have them ready for battle.”
That’s exactly right. I would well pay some of our warmongers here to study, not the battles of WW II but the run-up to it. We came REAL close to not being able to win that war due to manufacturing and troop issues. By staying out as long as we could we helped ensure that we were sending raw troops up against battle experienced enemies. That was COULD HAVE turned out a lot differently.
Normal
November 23rd, 2010
12:18 pm
Nice Guy
November 23rd, 2010
11:45 am
They would quit buying or debt….no ‘mo loans yo.
———–
Isn’t that what you Consrevatives want? No more debt building?
jm
November 23rd, 2010
12:19 pm
SoCo – geography my friend. Our navy and air force could do a lot of damage to North Korea….
Obviously nothing substitutes for “boots on the ground”. But N Korea is very different than Afghanistan and Iraq. That all said, I sure as heck hope we don’t need to spend gobs more in lives and money on another engagement.
But make no mistake, in a conventional war our military would win hands down. The problem is their nuke(s)….
md
November 23rd, 2010
12:20 pm
“What kind of force can the US put in Korea? We already have troops there, but can we seriously put enough of a force to counter N. Korea right now? We’re already spread out from our current engagements. Do you seriously think we can afford a 3rd military engagement right now?”
Well, we’d pull all we can and best hope NATO and the UN finally gets off their ass…then, S Korea better have plans for a draft…….
Afford??? Has it ever been a case of afford???
Doggone/GA
November 23rd, 2010
12:22 pm
“Isn’t that what you Consrevatives want? No more debt building?”
Since we’re running two wars already on money borrowed from China, I have this scenario in mind that if there is a war with N. Korea – we have to go to China and say “we need more money wo we can win this war against your ally”
That would go over REAL big, don’t you think?
jm
November 23rd, 2010
12:22 pm
Jay, the world is a bit of a jungle. With some unsavory characters. If Obama didn’t know that (which he didn’t seem to), I think he’s gotten the message now.
But I’m not sure he has the constitution to know what to do. We’ll see. Won’t matter. Either way, I think he’s gone in 2012. But politics shouldn’t really be of relevance on this issue now. There will be plenty of time to discuss whatever happens in the months leading up to Nov 2012.
Deep Throat
November 23rd, 2010
12:23 pm
Jay perhaps you should write a blog about the same old liberals ganging up to attack the GOP, the first comment was from jewcowdummy attacking the GOP, talk about acting like a spoiled little brat.
Lefty
November 23rd, 2010
12:25 pm
Jewcowboy…it’s true, I’m not on here much; and admittedly, there are scores of conservatives as well as liberals (probably even more on the interwebz) who open mouth and insert foot on a regular basis. For one thing, I think comment boards have directly contributed to any random ***clown out there feeling he’s qualified as a political pundit, which is probably more power than we realistically want to give people like that. What can be done, though? I guess it’s collateral damage from facilitating healthy debate. Can’t win ‘em all over to common sense.
What bothers me (and it probably shouldn’t) is that these people mouthing off with such things do nothing but embarrass us as a country in the international public eye. Don’t get me wrong; I love my country. But most of us are so verbally and politically brain-dead that we give everyone else nothing but good reasons to hate and ridicule us. People wonder why we’re a joke in the eyes of the rest of the world? Here’s why: WE ARE JUST TOO DEVASTATINGLY STUPID TO SEPARATE POLITICS FROM PUBLICITY.
/rant
Incidentally, thanks for the intelligent response (no sarcasm). It’s a welcome relief from the usual.
Doggone/GA
November 23rd, 2010
12:26 pm
“talk about acting like a spoiled little brat”
and complaining about it to the blog owner ISN’T acting like a spoiled brat? If you think not, I’ve got a BIG surprise for you.
Adam
November 23rd, 2010
12:27 pm
Gah. Obama blha blah indeed. What does Obama or the US have to do with ANY of this? The only reason to get involved is if this dispute cannot be resolved without INTERNATIONAL (read – not just U.S.) involvement. That is to say, many countries OTHER than those in the region trying to help out. Otherwise the U.S. is sticking its nose in again and it could lead to another war we can’t afford. Best to let them handle it until real actual decisive U.S. military action would SOLVE, rather than exacerbate, a problem.
Deep Throat
November 23rd, 2010
12:28 pm
Typical dogone stupid inserts his wisdom , or lack of.
Normal
November 23rd, 2010
12:29 pm
The Second Korean War would start like the first. The US and SK troops would be driven back down the island to Pusan before the US could deploy help. The difference is that today, one nuke
could take out the whole of Pusan and then there would be nothing to rescue. Would we answer nuke for nuke? That would be beyond redemption.
Normal
November 23rd, 2010
12:30 pm
Doggone/GA
November 23rd, 2010
12:22 pm
Too true!
Ragnar Danneskjöld
November 23rd, 2010
12:32 pm
Fortunately we have a president brave enough to strongly condemn the attacker rather than actually take any action. Someone without his intellectual capacity would have put a glass lining on the attacker-country’s nuclear generators..
RB from Gwinnett
November 23rd, 2010
12:32 pm
Perhaps Obama can send them a strongly worded letter.
Southern Comfort
November 23rd, 2010
12:33 pm
jm
The nukes wildcard is the one thing that really puts us in a conundrum. If it were not for that, our air force could almost singlehandedly take on N. Korea. Our navy could probably do it that way too. The nuclear weapon issue throws a monkey wrench into any type of advantage we have.
Well, we’d pull all we can and best hope NATO and the UN finally gets off their ass…then, S Korea better have plans for a draft
If past performance is any indicator of future results, we’re the ones that better have plans for a draft. One thing in S. Korea’s advantage is that their males are required to serve 2 yrs compulsory service. They can call up males in a draft with more training than we could.
Doggone/GA
November 23rd, 2010
12:34 pm
“Fortunately we have a president brave enough to strongly condemn the attacker rather than actually take any action”
the problem with the “up and at ‘em” crowd is that they don’t grasp the reality of this definition: “diplomacy is the are of saying ‘good doggie’ until you can find a rock”
AmVet
November 23rd, 2010
12:34 pm
/rant
Love that, Lefty.
As it is apropos for me (LOL at myself!), may I Joe Biden it from you?
jcb, you have your own personal leg-humper! Kudos, sir.
Deep Throat
November 23rd, 2010
12:34 pm
NEWS FLASH !!!!!!!! President Obama said South Korea acted stupidly.
Disgusted
November 23rd, 2010
12:35 pm
Private jm. It’s got a nice ring to it, does it not?
Ragnar Danneskjöld
November 23rd, 2010
12:36 pm
Dear Doggone @ 12:34, agreed, too bad the leftist Congress is trying to dispose of all the rocks via START.
Doggone/GA
November 23rd, 2010
12:38 pm
“too bad the leftist Congress is trying to dispose of all the rocks via START”
too bad that’s a lie
Ragnar Danneskjöld
November 23rd, 2010
12:38 pm
Dear Doggone, show us the rocks.
stands for decibels
November 23rd, 2010
12:39 pm
“leftist Congress.” Raggy’s a hoot, isn’t he?
Ragnar Danneskjöld
November 23rd, 2010
12:39 pm
Dear Doggone, I don’t mean that in the sense TSA would interpret it.
Doggone/GA
November 23rd, 2010
12:40 pm
“Dear Doggone, show us the rocks”
Sorry, I can’t. We have them all tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Ragnar Danneskjöld
November 23rd, 2010
12:41 pm
Dear Doggone & Decibels, you misperceive me, I love Big Brother. Changing my name to Winston Smith.
md
November 23rd, 2010
12:42 pm
“What does Obama or the US have to do with ANY of this? The only reason to get involved is if this dispute cannot be resolved without INTERNATIONAL (read – not just U.S.) involvement. That is to say, many countries OTHER than those in the region trying to help out. Otherwise the U.S. is sticking its nose in again and it could lead to another war we can’t afford.”
For starters, N Korea is the one pulling us into it. “We” have tried to steer the situation into 6 party talks, and N Korea wants no part of it. They know who has the big stick………….
Part of being a “superpower”…………comes with good and bad……this is the bad.
AmVet
November 23rd, 2010
12:42 pm
Again, until Republicans can demonstrate that they will not f up every single aspect of everything military, they need to put a sock in it for awhile. A long while.
You’d think these clowns had not just successfully concluded the invasion of Nazi-held Europe instead of pulling off “the greatest foreign policy blunder in modern American history”. That from a highly decorated combat veteran – Chuck Hagel, R – Ne.
As for respect? You’re joking, right? Around the entire planet as well as at home, you are roundly derided and laughed at for being card-carrying members of the 101st Chariborne.
So, for gawdssakes, can you chickenhawks at least elect more than a couple of combat veterans instead of these Grade A p&ssies that you so adore and emulate???
Adam
November 23rd, 2010
12:43 pm
Ragnar: the purpose of START is so we can inspect and know where those “rocks” actually are. Hence the national security issue.
RB from Gwinnett
November 23rd, 2010
12:43 pm
“Otherwise the U.S. is sticking its nose in again”
If you punch my brother in the nose, it’s now my business too because he’s my brother. South Korea is our ally and that makes it our business and they just got punched in the nose.
Your attitude is like standing by watching your wife get raped not “sticking your nose in” because it’s not happening to you. Think about it….
RB from Gwinnett
November 23rd, 2010
12:45 pm
“Sorry, I can’t. We have them all tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
Didn’t Obama make some promises about that too?
Adam
November 23rd, 2010
12:46 pm
RB: You just equated getting punched in the nose to a wife being raped. Not the same thing. Some artillery fired at a neighboring country, ok that’s a punch in the nose. What are you going to do about it? Fight your little brother’s battles for him? Now if that little brother was getting nuked, sure, you need to nuke the aggressor. We’re not there yet.
jewcowboy
November 23rd, 2010
12:48 pm
deep throat,
“the first comment was from jewcowdummy ”
Awww…did I hurt your widdle feewlings by taking away your thunder…
md
November 23rd, 2010
12:51 pm
“You just equated getting punched in the nose to a wife being raped. ”
Are you saying it would be ok to watch your wife get punched in the nose??
Granny Godzilla
November 23rd, 2010
12:51 pm
Be nice to have the START treaty with that other big nuclear
nation……but GOP leadership is all “party first” for the next two years.
Deep Throat
November 23rd, 2010
12:53 pm
jewdummie you can’t hurt my feelings, it just amazes me how the liberal brain works, correction does not work. I enjoy attacking each of you one on one because I know all of your liberal buddies will come to your defense.
jewcowboy
November 23rd, 2010
12:53 pm
Lefty,
“WE ARE JUST TOO DEVASTATINGLY STUPID TO SEPARATE POLITICS FROM PUBLICITY.”
Bingo! With the advent of 24 hour news cycle, politics is the new form of entertainment for the masses with politicians each vying to be a celebrity.
No need to come to the table with the intent of solving problems when the camera is waiting to spread its warm glow of popularity and wealth.
jewcowboy
November 23rd, 2010
12:55 pm
Deep Throat,
“I enjoy attacking each of you one on one because I know all of your liberal buddies will come to your defense.”
And since you can’t come up with cogent arguments you call names…that doesn’t speak well for your upbringing.
jewcowboy
November 23rd, 2010
12:58 pm
Ragnar Danneskjöld,
“I don’t mean that in the sense TSA would interpret it.”
Deep Throat
November 23rd, 2010
1:00 pm
jewdummie your just sore because someone will call you out, I use words that will knock you down from what you think is of supremacy, perhaps its your attitude, you want to attack those whose ideology is different from yours but you are not willing to move toward center.
Normal
November 23rd, 2010
1:02 pm
Deep Throat,
Coming to ones rescue is the thing friends do…but you don’t know much about friends, do you?
mm
November 23rd, 2010
1:03 pm
“They should strike back with full force and tell China to stay out.”
Ah, the rightwing answer to everything.
And what if China says “NO”!
Deep Throat
November 23rd, 2010
1:06 pm
Normal, I was wandering which one of you liberals would make my argument for me.
South Korea is Americas friend, so when we defend her don’t say a word because that’s what friends do.
stands for decibels
November 23rd, 2010
1:06 pm
I realize that neocons don’t look like much, but their flatulence is quite explosive upon impact.
I wouldn’t drop The Big One on NK right away, though.
jewcowboy
November 23rd, 2010
1:06 pm
Deep Throat,
“I use words that will knock you down from what you think is of supremacy”
No…you use words that show your limited capacity for the English language and a supreme lack of thought. All you’ve managed to do is call me some names, yet you do not advance any theory of your own, compelling or otherwise.
It would serve you better to actually put some thought behind your postings, rather than lob names…at least then you would come off as something other than a semi-literate rube.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
November 23rd, 2010
1:11 pm
Hot dang! I take a lunch break and now my prayers are answered! We got us a war coming up! That means us Conservative Republicans are a lead-pipe cinch to take the White House. We can drag out the flag and talk about Patriotism and the folks will flock to the polls to put us in office. And the economy’s really going to take off when all our factorys start making more war stuff. This calls for a big Tax Cut!
Del
November 23rd, 2010
1:11 pm
“so it will have to be diplomacy for the initial attempt to calm the situation. I don’t see any other way around it.”
We need to tell the Chinese that the threat has grown to the point where we have little other choice than to launch an attack that will cripple their nuclear program. Should we do so and they retaliate, we will have no other choice but to utilize nuclear weapons. Let the Chinese know that the game is up and they will need to put serious restraint on North Korea. Because the Chinese believe that we’re not inclined to take serious action, they enjoy having North Korea as a thorn in our side. We need to let the Chinese know that while we have no desire for war we believe the security risk is too great for us to allow it to continue. Time for tough diplomacy.
JohnnyReb
November 23rd, 2010
1:13 pm
OFF SUBJECT – Hey AmVet – I took the bait and Googled Welfare for the Wealthy and found a clergy compalaining about US cotton prices being unfair to African farmers and that the true subject is farm subsidies started by Democrats during the Depression. The Bush administration changed the payouts, but I agree they appear an unnecessary hold-over that conflicts with Capitalisim, the free market, and should be abolished.
A lock-step problem with the farm subsidies is the Fed. Obama can’t get another Stimulis through Congress, so the Fed helps by printing billions, dumping it into the economy, and also address interest rates. The Fed lowered interest rates to the bottom. In turn, the Fed has chosen to raise interest rates through inflation. How? Print the 6 billion, then withdraw it from the economy, which will raise interest rates. Food prices are already going up. The Fed policy will drive food and everything else up even more. We are in for a long slog.
Deep Throat
November 23rd, 2010
1:14 pm
jewdummie you are so much smarter than the rest of us, GOSH! How could I ever measure up to you ? I am sure I will not sleep tonight worrying about how you feel about me, personally I think you are still sore from the elections.
Normal
November 23rd, 2010
1:15 pm
Deep Throat,
You just don’r get me. I’m all for defending South Korea. I was talking about your lack of personal
manners.
But, as to Korea, If North Korea attacks, the scenario would be much like I posted at 1229. Would we nuke NK, then? What would China do? If China threw nukes at us, we would have to answer.
Now tell me one positive thing that could come out of that?
Bottom line, if China thought for one minute that NK was up to something, there would be a rapid regime change in NK. China won’t let NK stand in the way of business. Think of China as a big Mafia Family. It’s closer to anything there is to her way of thinking.
Southern Comfort
November 23rd, 2010
1:15 pm
Del
Exactamundo!!!
Normal
November 23rd, 2010
1:19 pm
JohhnyReb,
You are absolutely correct, we are in for a long slog….made longer by the lack of co-operation of the parties who could help fix it. God save us from politicians.
jewcowboy
November 23rd, 2010
1:21 pm
Deep Throat,
“personally I think you are still sore from the elections.”
Nope…but I am chafing a bit from your absurd leg humping.
Jefferson
November 23rd, 2010
1:23 pm
Let’s send about 400K troops to the border.
Deep Throat
November 23rd, 2010
1:25 pm
Normal there is nothing positive with war, albeit some times necessary.
War to me is like street fighting, I might have beat you up but my loose tooth don’t care who won.
My philosophy on war or fighting is to win, that means kicking,scratching, biting or Nuclear weapons, no half hearted attack, or as Douglas MacArthur said I don’t know how to bomb half a bridge.
jewcowboy
November 23rd, 2010
1:27 pm
Normal,
“China won’t let NK stand in the way of business. Think of China as a big Mafia Family.”
Interesting perspective…I never looked at it like that.
Deep Throat
November 23rd, 2010
1:27 pm
jewdummie don’t worry I won’t get any on you.
T
November 23rd, 2010
1:30 pm
Fun times!!!! Maybe now Ill get to see N Korea.
jewcowboy
November 23rd, 2010
1:32 pm
Deep Throat,
“don’t worry I won’t get any on you.”
That’s not what your moniker would imply
Del
November 23rd, 2010
1:33 pm
SoCo,
The Chinese don’t want war with us at least not now because they know as our capability exists today it would be unwinnable for them and counter to their goal of economic dominance. In the future as they continue building their economy and military capability they haven’t precluded a future war with us but for now they wouldn’t risk one merely for North Korea. I think we could make them see that seriously restraining the N.K. is in their best national interest, however, we need to convince them that we’re serious.
Deep Throat
November 23rd, 2010
1:35 pm
jewdummie lets just say you’ll never get to find out what my moniker stands for.
jewcowboy
November 23rd, 2010
1:39 pm
“lets just say you’ll never get to find out what my moniker stands for.”
Maybe there is a god after all.
Don't Forget
November 23rd, 2010
1:46 pm
N. Korea probably had a poor wheat harvest and is doing this to distract the hungry masses.
jm, star wars would only be effective against ICBM’s since it’s a space based program. Only Russia and the US have ICBM’s. So investing in star wars to counter N Korea would be as you said stupid. I thought you were more informed than that. The anti missile systems we have that are appropriate in this case are aegis and patriot with aegis being more effective I think (not certain though) Obama has increased funding for aegis but i’m not sure if it is deployed on the korean penninsula yet.
TnGelding
November 23rd, 2010
3:41 pm
Let’s wait until the entire story gets out.
Moderate Line
November 23rd, 2010
3:46 pm
The only strategic option is to play for time, putting off confrontation until North Korea collapses in upon itself, as it inevitably must. That’s when the fun will really start, as South Korea and China maneuver for position. Neither country is particularly eager to take responsibility for the mess that North Korea has become, but neither wants to surrender that role to the other.
++++++++++++++
How long did it take for Franco’s Spain to fall. I am not saying you are making an assumption but many people believe that these regimes ALWAYS fail when in reality the do not. The Soviet Union lasted for several generations.
kevink808
November 23rd, 2010
5:49 pm
jm: “kevink808 – not a chance buddy. Go ahead, you can use that straw man and make believe my friends are imaginary…. of course our Generals don’t give a crap what I have to say. Guess what, the could give a cr-p about what you have to say too. Congrats, great argument you just fabricated.”
Aw, I must have hit a nerve. Typical reaction from someone who just had their sophomoric argument punctured, leaving them holding their sad limp balloon of weak logic. Don’t worry about your imaginary friends, you’ve conceded the point to me.
Joel Edge
November 24th, 2010
5:14 am
I don’t know how this “wait till it collapses” plan is going to work. We and S Korea send them food and supplies. Cut off the food and fuel and gem them about a week. Walk up to the border with a happy meal and they would give you Kim Jung Un in a sack.
Joel Edge
November 24th, 2010
5:22 am
should have been -give them about a week.
HDB
November 24th, 2010
7:30 am
Don’t Forget
November 23rd, 2010
1:46 pm
Aegia-class anti-missle systems are ship based weapons; they are deployed in the Pacific on missile cruisers (CG/CGN)and destroyers (DD/DDN)!!
f u
November 24th, 2010
10:59 am
this is the prelude to world war 111
f u
November 24th, 2010
10:59 am
666
jesus
November 25th, 2010
11:07 am
i would remove all the top leaders in one swoop .