North Korea: A bratty little punk with nukes

North Korea has fired an intensive artillery barrage at a South Korean island, killing two South Korean soldiers and setting dozens of buildings ablaze. Experts say the attack is somehow linked to the transfer of power from North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il to his son, Kim Jong-un.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak has told his own military to ”respond sternly” but also to avoid aggravating the situation, which is a pretty narrow line to walk with such an unpredictable, irrational enemy. But it’s hard to envision a feasible alternative: The fact that North Korea is once again behaving like an 11-year-old juvenile delinquent with a mean streak argues strongly for responding to force with greater, even overwhelming force. The fact that the delinquent in question is armed with nuclear weapons and the world’s largest arsenal of artillery — much of it aimed at downtown Seoul, a city of more than 10 million people — takes that approach off the table.

The only strategic option is to play for time, putting off confrontation until North Korea collapses in upon itself, as it inevitably must. That’s when the fun will really start, as South Korea and China maneuver for position. Neither country is particularly eager to take responsibility for the mess that North Korea has become, but neither wants to surrender that role to the other.

As I’ve noted before, some problems can only be managed, not solved. North Korea continues to epitomize that kind of challenge.

174 comments Add your comment

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
10:22 am

Oh let me see the “conservative” reaction…Obama blah blah blah blah blah, Obama’s fault. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Obama.

Do I have that about right?

Call it like it is

November 23rd, 2010
10:27 am

Jay, North Korea is a child and they are China’s child. Ignore them completely, just as you would a spoiled brat. You have to understand the Korean mind. They feel that they should be a big player on the block, but yet the rest of the world laughs at them. The best thing we can do is to continue what we are doing right now and ignore them.

If I was Obama I would have him call China and tell them this is your mess you created it in the Korean war, now you deal with it.

Hell were dealing with a country that will spend 3 months trying to decide the shape of a table to have a meeting at. And if the time comes that they actuall do build a missle, then the rules change.

Matti

November 23rd, 2010
10:28 am

jewcowboy @ 10:22,

Exactamundo. They will occasionally throw in a “Shrillary” jab (out of habit, and the sheer joy of maligning a woman who doesn’t fit their ideals of womanhood), but of course, it’s Obama’s fault for appointing her.

Common Sense isn't very Common

November 23rd, 2010
10:41 am

Its only a matter of time before they implode. The problem with their implosion is will they or won’t they launch missles at anybody and everybody who has offended them before the go down.

They are currently whining about what they see as an incursion by S. Korea. The U.N. needs to get off their collective Arses and send a peacekeeping force there, include some Chinese troops for good measure to really put the pressure on N. Korea.

Normal

November 23rd, 2010
10:44 am

I will agree that North Korea is a bratty child with a loaded gun, but I think that they are more of a danger to themselves than to us. self inflected woulds, anyone?

jm

November 23rd, 2010
10:44 am

Obama and S.K. need to learn a little Churchillian wisdom. Appeasement will not work. They should strike back with full force and tell China to stay out. Returning artillery fire is not the resolution.

I know they’re trying to prevent conflagration. But appeasement doesn’t work and they’re delaying the inevitable. This is sad and the potential start of a giant mess.

Normal

November 23rd, 2010
10:45 am

Damn, wounds not woulds…

jm

November 23rd, 2010
10:50 am

“Drop” artillery on North Korea until nothing much is left….. if NK tries to drop a nuke, level NK (or the governmental installations anyway).

What was it about the Dems saying Star Wars and missile defense was dumb and a bad idea? Jesus.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
10:50 am

Perhaps N. Korea is acting like the kid that throws rocks at the other kids on the playground b/c he is starving for attention…this is N. Korea’s way to get a seat a the diplomacy table…a stupid ill-advised way…but a way none the less.

ohh so wise

November 23rd, 2010
10:50 am

Wait, we can call china and talk to someone who doesn’t want us dead more than North K? Why didn’t you say so!? Hey, let’s make it a 3 way call and include the Taliban on that dude. I’m sure if we ask nicely

jm

November 23rd, 2010
10:51 am

Democratic Diplomacy: ok everyone, let’s get together in a circle and sing Kumbaya. I know Kim Jong Il, Sun, and the Ayatollah will come around. Everyone, sing together!

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
10:51 am

jm,

““Drop” artillery on North Korea until nothing much is left”

The problem with that tends to be a little problem called civilians.

Cherokee

November 23rd, 2010
10:52 am

jewcowboy you beat me to it. Surely it’s Obama’s fault somehow….

blah blah blah

jm

November 23rd, 2010
10:53 am

Force only responds to Force. That is the lesson of history. These guys can keep up the semblance of a military state for generations. Time to finish them. Send the bill to South Korea.

jm

November 23rd, 2010
10:54 am

jewcowboy – I’m obviously referring to military installations, not civilian targets. Our targeting is pretty damn good these days, if you haven’t noticed…. (I’m sure you have)

Jay

November 23rd, 2010
10:54 am

Easy to talk all brave and manly here in Atlanta, jm.

Now imagine yourself and your family in Seoul, with the world’s largest array of artillery pointed at your forehead. The border with North Korea is about as far from Seoul as Alpharetta is from downtown Atlanta.

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
10:55 am

“Our targeting is pretty damn good these days, if you haven’t noticed…. (I’m sure you have)”

I suspect all the dead civilians in Iraq might want to argue that point…if they could.

Jay

November 23rd, 2010
10:55 am

and South Korea would get the bill, alright.

You can pretty much count on that.

jm

November 23rd, 2010
10:56 am

From Janes Defence

Tensions rise as North Korean artillery attacks South Korean island

By James Hardy

23 November 2010

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North Korea fired more than 200 artillery shells at the South Korean island of Yeonpyeong on 23 November, killing two marines and injuring more than 15 marines and civilians. South Korea returned fire in the West (Yellow) Sea and scrambled F-16 fighter jets in the most serious confrontation between the two countries in years.

A spokesman for South Korean President Lee Myung-bak described the shelling, which also damaged about 60 buildings, as “clear military provocation” and said Pyongyang would face “stern retaliation” if it launched further attacks.

“Furthermore, recklessly shelling against civilians can never be tolerated,” Hong Sang-pyo, senior secretary for public affairs, said in a statement.

South Korean television showed black smoke rising from the 7 km2 island, which is home to about 1,600 civilians – mostly fishermen – and a garrison of 1,000 South Korean marines.

The attack appears to have been in response to military exercises taking place in contested waters. South Korea has been carrying out live-fire exercises in waters off Bangnyeong and Yeonpyeong islands as part of its annual nine-day ‘Hoguk’ exercise against North Korean provocations. According to South Korean officials, Pyongyang sent a fax to Seoul on the morning of 23 November stating North Korea would not simply “sit back” while the exercise took place.

In a statement released by the state-run Korean Central News Agency, Pyongyang accused South Korea of firing first and threatened further attacks. “The South Korean enemy, despite our repeated warnings, committed reckless military provocations of firing artillery shells into our maritime territory near Yeonpyeong island,” the statement said. “[North Korea] will continue to make merciless military attacks with no hesitation if the South Korean enemy dares to invade our sea territory by 0.001 mm.”

Normal

November 23rd, 2010
10:56 am

Doggone,
It’s not “dead civilians”, it’s Collateral damage.

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
10:58 am

“It’s not “dead civilians”, it’s Collateral damage.”

A disgusting term, too. And no, we didn’t even bother to count them. That too is disgusting.

jm

November 23rd, 2010
10:58 am

Jay, I know if I was sitting in Seoul, I would be thinking differently. No doubt about it. But the facts are the facts. Are we going to be dealing with Kim Jong Moon (or some such new successor) when I’m 80? Possibly. But I doubt it. Someone will have to end this at some point, and it won’t be fun or pretty.

Scout

November 23rd, 2010
11:00 am

“That’s mighty bold talk for a one eyed fat man. Fill your hands !”

“Never get involved in a land war in Asia”.

How would you like to be in the 2nd Infantry Division (Indian Head) in South Korea right now? They are not even a full division because they have been stripped of troops to augment Iraq and Afghanistan.

Trivia: What is the only Army patch the Marines Corps was ever authorized to wear? The Indian Head because the 6th Marines were attached to that division in WWI.

What is the only USMC patch the U.S. Army was ever authorized to wear? The first Marines Division patch for those Army units attached to in in Iraq.

And now you know the rest of the story.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:00 am

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:02 am

Scout,

“Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line” ;)

jm

November 23rd, 2010
11:03 am

jewcowboy – Anecdotes (individual screw ups) do not a statistic make.

larry

November 23rd, 2010
11:03 am

Yeah, i can see us dropping bombs on N. Korea and telling China to stay out. One problem with that is China will not do what we tell them to do.

And then what ? Drop bombs on China?

Road Scholar

November 23rd, 2010
11:05 am

Jay: No, let’s send JM to the front lines. Since all our troops are in Iraq and Afganastan, who do we send? If we retaliate in any way, wipe out their reactors. Now if the Chinese will get off their butts…

AmVet

November 23rd, 2010
11:05 am

War First. War Last. War Always.

Bomb ‘em. Kill ‘em. Nuke ‘em. Invade and occupy ‘em.

The first and greatest plank in neo-conservative ideology.

Republicans take note, vicarious blood lust mixed with the height of personal cowardice is no way to run an entire major political party…

kevink808

November 23rd, 2010
11:05 am

Ah, so brave are the chickenhawk armchair warriors like “jm” who advocates miliary action from the safety of his keyboard. As a veteran who served on the Korean peninsula, I can assure you that our 35,000 American soldiers parked on th DMZ and otherwise within 8 minutes by air and artillery will suffer tremendous casualties. They are a tripwire to serve as a guarantee of follow-on forces from Guam and Japan.

Here’s a thought, let’s put “jm” in the DMZ before the fireworks fly, we’ll even let him keep his nachos and diet pepsi so he feels right at home in his mom’s basement.

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
11:05 am

“Anecdotes (individual screw ups) do not a statistic make”

and if you are one of the people UNDER those mistargeted bombs, statistics don’t mean a damn thing.

Del

November 23rd, 2010
11:05 am

With North Korea we can never take military force off the table and China needs to be strongly advised of it. Unfortunately, this president and his administration is perceived to be weak by both China and the North Koreans.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:05 am

jm,

“Anecdotes (individual screw ups) do not a statistic make.”

Uh..yeah..they do.

jm

November 23rd, 2010
11:06 am

larry – that is the 64 million question. When US / SK troops are running around the same turf as the Chinese military, bad things could happen. China already intends to take over NK governance when the puppet kingdom falls.

Or its possible all this will die down. Hard to know….

jm

November 23rd, 2010
11:07 am

jewcowboy – since you’re asserting our targeting stinks, please go find the statistics (not anecdotes) to prove it. Cheers.

Lance

November 23rd, 2010
11:07 am

I just spent two weeks riding and talking with Koreans over here. They said after the Cheonen they expect the government of South Korea to respond more forcefully to any Nor Korean Provocation and that they will be meeting force with force. “We can’t just let them sink ships and kill innocent people and do nothing in response>” was what one of them said. Understand this though, they hate Kim jon Il but they see the Noth Korean people as extended family they have been cut off from. The (the South Koreans) have a good deal of family still in the north. The unification will take place one day but I have no idea if we will ever live to see it. All out war won’t happen unless the North drops a nuke but the South Koreans are very tired of being bullied. they made that pretty clear. A bully never stops until he gets popped in the lip. Here is hoping that punching the bully in the mouth doesnt restart the Korean war. Neither side can or will invade the other they will just trade punches across the line. Both countries, especailly at the DMZ would be nearly impossible to traverse, both are in defensive postures.

jm

November 23rd, 2010
11:08 am

Road / Kevin. Go ahead, pile on. I’ve got two friends sitting on the DMZ. Yeah I’m not there. What’s your point?

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:09 am

Del,

“this president and his administration is perceived to be weak by both China and the North Koreans.”

Weaker than the last one, under whose watch the N. Koreans were so emboldened as to test fire their first nuclear weapon?

jm

November 23rd, 2010
11:10 am

Lance – second that.

Scout

November 23rd, 2010
11:14 am

Too bad the North Koreans aren’t Muslim. All would be so tranquil and peaceful. Allah be praised.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:15 am

jm,

“since you’re asserting our targeting stinks, please go find the statistics (not anecdotes) to prove it.”

I’m not asserting our targeting stinks. I’m asserting that when you start dropping bombs, unintended consequences will arise. Is the U.S. willing to deal with the worst case scenarios in terms of more of young men and women’s lives and treasure?

After a decade of 2 wars with murky results, to be so cavalier about committing further troops and treasure is the height of irresponsibility only afforded to those sitting comfortably thousands of miles out of range of the consequences of those rash words.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:16 am

Lance,

“I just spent two weeks riding and talking with Koreans over here.”

English or Western saddle?

JohnnyReb

November 23rd, 2010
11:16 am

Let me not disappoint all those waiting to defend Obama. He is weak, the world knows it, and it emboldens our enemies. However, the failed Korean policy started before Obama, so its not all his fault.

Jay makes good points, but at some point we will have to say enough. My question is, when the next trangression occurs, will Barry take action other than asking for a UN Resolution?

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
11:16 am

“Allah be praised”

Does the pastor of your church know you’ve started praying to Allah?

Nice Guy

November 23rd, 2010
11:17 am

jewc – “Oh let me see the “conservative” reaction…Obama blah blah blah blah blah, Obama’s fault. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Obama.”

So how long will it take for the talking heads to replace, in your quote, Obama’s name with Bush?

jm

November 23rd, 2010
11:17 am

jewcowboy 11:15 – sorry, but that’s such a dodge response.

Nice Guy

November 23rd, 2010
11:18 am

Jay – “The only strategic option is to play for time, putting off confrontation until North Korea collapses in upon itself, as it inevitably must.”

This strategy is just more of the same. Force is needed. With an inrrational child, you can’t just continue to tell them ‘no’ until they either stop or do something really stupid. You must use force of some kind to really get their attention and respect you. That’s what needs to be done here.

stands for decibels

November 23rd, 2010
11:19 am

Could we carpet-bomb Kim Ill-Dog’s compound with our apparently limitless supply of neocon stooges?

jm

November 23rd, 2010
11:19 am

jewcowboy 11:15 – the articles you cited were not about how much we’ve spent in blood and money on the wars. They were about targeting inaccuracies. Now you dodge the responsibility of providing real statistics to back up your assertion.

I’ll discuss the merits and shortcomings of spending more money and blood on North Korea if / when you either concede the targeting argument or provide facts to back up your previous assertion.

Nice Guy

November 23rd, 2010
11:20 am

Doggone – “I suspect all the dead civilians in Iraq might want to argue that point…if they could.”

Gag.

Scout

November 23rd, 2010
11:20 am

Doggone/GA:

“Obama be praised” ……….. now what do you think I mean ?

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
11:20 am

“but at some point we will have to say enough”

Ok, will you volunteer…or wait for the draft to be started up first? Will you contribute money or wait for taxes to be raised?

The bottom-line is that right now we don’t have the manpower or the money to start another war. And we won’t start one, unless or until the provocation is enough to have the populace backing the taxes and the draft to do it.

Bob

November 23rd, 2010
11:21 am

Korea ? Didn’t they invade us some time ago ? We had a war with Korea during the term of a dem president, what American city did Korea invade ? And didn’t Jimmy Carter broker a deal to keep them from building nukes ?

larry

November 23rd, 2010
11:21 am

N. Korea considers any adminstration weak , from Truman on down. But are we willing , considering we have troops already in war in two countries costing us 3 billion dollars a month or more, to put the capital up , both human and financial to do more than we are doing ?

kevink808

November 23rd, 2010
11:21 am

JM, funny, you’re like that guy who asserts he’s not racist because he has a black or brown friend. I guess your “friends” supposedly in the DMZ would look kindly on you providing dangerous and ignorant advice that thankfully no one in uniform or high office will ever heed.

Try and wear a uniform someday, you may gain a grain of salt of credibility. Until then, good luck making the leaderboards with your videogames. In the meantime, you could send me the unit and last names of your imaginary friends and I’ll look them up on the global .mil that I have access to.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:21 am

jm,

“sorry, but that’s such a dodge response.”

“We don’t do body counts” ~ General Tommy Franks

Data is a little hard to come by…but if you are so ready for military action in N. Korea…someone is waiting for you:

http://www.marines.com/?WT.srch=1&WT.mc_id=GSLE_U_S_M_C_MAIN

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
11:22 am

““Obama be praised” ……….. now what do you think I mean ?”

That you still think Obama is the Messiah.

marky mark

November 23rd, 2010
11:22 am

As long as China has NK’s back, they are not going to change. And China has made gestures to tone down N Korea, but I dont think they seriously care. That being said, China isnt going to sit still; they know we will back S Korea, and that they loose if our economy tanks. We need each other too much. Its going to be interesting (and thats really a bad way of putting it) to see if this skirmish will ramp up, and we have some artillery demonstrations. The first round that lands on Seoul, the South Koreans will unload. And then the Chinese will HAVE to react. The question? will they quickly “chill out” the N Koreans (it is in their best interest to do so) or will the Chinese army use this as a test to see what the US is prepared to do, how quickly we will strip Afghan and Iraq, how will we mobilize, etc.

Southern Comfort

November 23rd, 2010
11:23 am

For all those who are advocating the position that force is needed, here’s a question for you. Where do we amass this force? We have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan already. The troops currently here at home are simply awaiting their next deployment. Remember how Reagan is credited with outspending the Russians into collapse. If we try to send our military into Korea without completely wrapping up either Iraq or Afghanistan, we’re going to be looking down the barrel of collapse ourselves. Can we afford to send our troops into a 3rd confrontation right now?

Del

November 23rd, 2010
11:24 am

jewcowboy,

I could bring up the Clinton administration and the foolish flirtation back then with N.K., however, that might only provoke a meaningless exchange that contributes nothing to the very real threat we have today. North Korea has been working with Iran, Syria, maybe Islamic terrorist groups and even Pakistan where they’re sharing information in an effort to improve their delivery system capabilities. Obama, to use Jay’s terminology has accomplished nothing in managing this problem.

Nice Guy

November 23rd, 2010
11:24 am

Doggone – “unless or until the provocation is enough to have the populace backing the taxes and the draft to do it.”

Excuse me?

No draft will ever be reinstated.

And taxes? Defending the country is the first and foremost job of the gubment. Taxes won’t be raised to deal with a ‘little punk’ like N. Korea.

Scout

November 23rd, 2010
11:26 am

Doggone/GA:

……… the false one ……. therefore the “praise” is sarcastic ……. :o

Headline: Obama support sinks lowest ever to 39% as even Democrats abandon ship.

jm

November 23rd, 2010
11:26 am

kevink808 – not a chance buddy. Go ahead, you can use that straw man and make believe my friends are imaginary…. of course our Generals don’t give a crap what I have to say. Guess what, the could give a cr-p about what you have to say too. Congrats, great argument you just fabricated.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:26 am

marky mark,

“That being said, China isnt going to sit still; they know we will back S Korea, and that they loose if our economy tanks. We need each other too much.”

Salient point.

larry

November 23rd, 2010
11:26 am

We can institute a war tax and start the draft back up.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:28 am

kevink808,

I found that the ones that are so quick to put our troops in harms way are usually the ones least likely to wear a uniform.

Nice Guy

November 23rd, 2010
11:29 am

“We can institute a war tax and start the draft back up.”

Sure. We can. We can do anything we want.

My point was that we won’t institute a tax or a draft, bubba.

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
11:30 am

“Defending the country is the first and foremost job of the gubment. Taxes won’t be raised to deal with a ‘little punk’ like N. Korea.”

N. Korea is only a “little punk” because it has China behind it. And if you think a “little punk” like China can be dealt with without a draft and raising taxes, you truly DO live in a dream world.

Lefty

November 23rd, 2010
11:30 am

Jewcowboy, Matty, and Cherokee…your buffoonery and anti-conservative jeering looks like it puts you at about the same maturity level as bratty, punkish North Korea itself. Instead of making any attempt at a semi-intelligent comment, you would rather poke fun at the imaginary little conservatives with pitchforks dancing in your head who are just blind, racist hatemongers with the IQ of goldfish.

Meanwhile, back in reality, your obsession with beating conservatives to the blame game (when Obama had nothing to do with this attack in the first place) only reinforces your own lack of faith in your beloved celebrity-in-chief to uphold the future of the country you openly hate and denounce. My question is this: how do your hypocritical actions in any way differ from those of the big, mean, Obama-hating bullies you are superior to? All they indicate to me is what you’re all afraid to say: that even the liberals have utterly lost all faith in their poster boy.

Scout

November 23rd, 2010
11:31 am

Got to run for the day.

Marines …. fix bayonets ….. standby to repel boarders !

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
11:32 am

“the false one”

Hmmm…really? It’s hard to believe that when you only trot it out AFTER you have praised him. Are you sure your real name isn’t Peter?

N

November 23rd, 2010
11:32 am

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

Hope not.

Nice Guy

November 23rd, 2010
11:36 am

Doggone – “And if you think a “little punk” like China can be dealt with without a draft and raising taxes, you truly DO live in a dream world.”

I said nothing about China.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I tell ya, all you high-horse Libs on here sure do get mad when people put words in your mouth…..but do not hesitate to put words in other people’s mouth.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:37 am

Lefty,

You must not read this very often, or you would realize that to some posters on here…EVERYTHING is Obama’s fault. The topic is about public schools…Obama’s fault. The topic is about GA budget crisis…Obama’s fault. The topic is about NPR…Obama’s fault. The topic is about *blank*… it is Obamas fault. It gets rather tiresome listening to same Obama derangement rants.

But you are semi-correct. I shouldn’t paint every “conservative” with the same broad brush…just certain ones on this blog.

Jimmy62

November 23rd, 2010
11:38 am

Obviously this is Kim Jong-Il, not Obama. But that doesn’t mean Obama doesn’t deserve some blame for not taking a harsher line with North Korea. Bush was entirely accurate when he pronounced North Korea as part of the axis of evil, and Obama was wrong to change course.

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
11:38 am

“but do not hesitate to put words in other people’s mouth.”

but I did not put words in your mouth. I was commenting on an aspect of the situation that you ignored.

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
11:39 am

“Bush was entirely accurate when he pronounced North Korea as part of the axis of evil”

and then sent to the troops to Iraq instead of Korea.

lol

November 23rd, 2010
11:39 am

China’s mess?

UNITED STATES divided Korea into two nations after WW2 just like she did with Vietnam and Germany.

US created 2 Koreas, not the Chinese.

Nice Guy

November 23rd, 2010
11:40 am

“Bush was entirely accurate when he pronounced North Korea as part of the axis of evil, and Obama was wrong to change course.”

Uh oh.

jm

November 23rd, 2010
11:41 am

jewcowboy – I’m sorry, you’re chock a block full of falsehoods, non-fact based assertions, and complete hogwash today.

“kevink808,

I found that the ones that are so quick to put our troops in harms way are usually the ones least likely to wear a uniform.”

There is no factual basis in this statement. Here are a few, indirectly related, facts for your consumption.

Here are some facts and logic for you . Military vets generally support Republicans. Republicans are more pro-military action what with the likes of neo-cons, etc. Ergo, Vets on balance support a more forward military posture.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109654/veterans-solidly-back-mccain.aspx

Even after 8 years of Iraq and Afghanistan. So how bout chewin them actual facts over and get back to me when the neurons have made the connection.

Normal

November 23rd, 2010
11:43 am

Consider this, All of you who are worried about China, well maybe your worries are without much merit.

Regardless of China’s ideology, China is first, last, and formost a Business State. They would drop NK like a dirty diaper, if their business was to be hurt. Tell them you will no loger do business with them unless they get and keep NK under control. See what happens then.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:43 am

Jimmy62,

“Bush was entirely accurate when he pronounced North Korea as part of the axis of evil, and Obama was wrong to change course.”

And how did that work out for Bush? I’ll give you hint…it was a 4.7 seismic event in 2006.

Nice Guy

November 23rd, 2010
11:45 am

Normal – “See what happens then.”

They would quit buying or debt….no ‘mo loans yo.

Southern Comfort

November 23rd, 2010
11:47 am

All this yammering, yet nobody has pointed out the obvious…

*The UK is withdrawing troops from Afg and Iraq because of financial issues.

*The shaky finances of the US are headline news around the world.

*There are not many other countries with the firepower to back S. Korea

When you look at all those facts, do you really have to wonder why N. Korea is feeling big and bad? The only thing anyone can do right now is pull a UN Resolution. The two big countries that backs everyone up are on the ropes financially. Neither has the ability right now to bring the pain to N. Korea or anyone else who gets froggy right now. It’s not the fault of one single person or administration here, but we can’t always be the world police. This is a perfect example of why we can’t do that. We’re spread out in Iraq and Afghanistan. We don’t have enough troops to adequately deal with N. Korea, so it will have to be diplomacy for the initial attempt to calm the situation. I don’t see any other way around it.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:48 am

jm,

“There is no factual basis in this statement. ”

Uh… that’s why I wrote “I found” rather than “independent studies show that”…

And you might want to check your own assertion before you state, “Here are some facts and logic for you”

AmVet

November 23rd, 2010
11:49 am

These cons aren’t even toy soldiers like their elected heroes of the past 15 years, almost to a man are. They are toy soldiers playing toy soldiers.

They bluster about respect and harsher lines, but let’s acknowledge the obvious truth here, shall we folks?

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that any neo-con has ever had the wherewithal to successfully prosecute a military campaign.

Wait! There is one exception.

That is when that highly decorated combat veteran of film and TV, the Second Rate Thespian turned Third Rate POTUS saved us all from those marauding Grenadians!

After the jaw dropping mismanagement of every single aspect of his Chosen Crusades and the serial deadly debacles of George & Gang, the cowardly Republicans should never again be allowed to determine whether this country sacrifices the lives of our marines, soldiers, sailor and airmen…

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:51 am

Southern Comfort.

“I don’t see any other way around it.”

But…but..we are the USA…we can do anything…even if it’s unrealistic.

md

November 23rd, 2010
11:51 am

China is caught in the middle of their own mess…..they have for years allowed the status quo to fester, and now the boil is ready to pop…….problem is, neither China nor S Korea really want the country to implode, as the massive wave of refugees will be enormous, inundating both Countries beyond what either can probably handle.

I see China doing what it can to maintain the staus quo…….solves the refugee problem, forces the US to maintain forces in Korea, and gives the US a perpetual headache to deal with.

md

November 23rd, 2010
11:56 am

“No draft will ever be reinstated.”

I doubt it…………..all it takes is for the misfits to overcommit to our allies, and a draft will occur……………..they will sacrifice “us” to keep egg off “their” faces……………..

Jimmy62

November 23rd, 2010
11:58 am

You guys are all right. Obama never does anything wrong. No matter what decisions he makes, any negative consequences are actually Bush’s fault. In fact, when Obama decides in the morning what tie to wear, no matter what he chooses is right. And if something bad results, it’s Bush’s fault.

Come on people, actions have consequences. Obama decided to downplay the danger from North Korea, and now South Korea is paying for it. Now you may be cool with that and think of it as a problem for Korea, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a consequence of Obama’s decisions.

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
11:58 am

“I see China doing what it can”

that’s the rub. What if it can’t? The problem with propping up a weak bully is that at some point the bully may get to feeling strong enough to go it alone.

md

November 23rd, 2010
11:58 am

“The only thing anyone can do right now is pull a UN Resolution.”

Like the 20+ against Iraq???

The UN is worthless, and I’m guessing N Korea knows it…………..

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
11:59 am

md,

“they will sacrifice “us” to keep egg off “their” faces……………..”

Watch out for the soccer mom who doesn’t want to watch her “baby” turned into cannon fodder.

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
12:00 pm

Jimmy62,

“Obama never does anything wrong. No matter what decisions he makes, any negative consequences are actually Bush’s fault. ”

No…this is actually probably Clinton’s fault for not taking care of N. Korea before he left office, kicking the problem to Bush who kicked the problem to Obama.

md

November 23rd, 2010
12:02 pm

“If we try to send our military into Korea without completely wrapping up either Iraq or Afghanistan, we’re going to be looking down the barrel of collapse ourselves. Can we afford to send our troops into a 3rd confrontation right now?”

Well, big wars have a way of ramping up the economy and would even boost a dieing manufacturing base…………

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
12:05 pm

“this is actually probably Clinton’s fault for not taking care of N. Korea ”

and I would say you can date it further back than that. How about starting with the Cease Fire, instead of negotiating an actual peace treaty? That puts it back to Eisenhower

Southern Comfort

November 23rd, 2010
12:06 pm

md

What kind of force can the US put in Korea? We already have troops there, but can we seriously put enough of a force to counter N. Korea right now? We’re already spread out from our current engagements. Do you seriously think we can afford a 3rd military engagement right now?

jewcowboy

November 23rd, 2010
12:06 pm

But Jimmy62,

Let us not forget, N. Korea was still in the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons until 2003.

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
12:07 pm

“Well, big wars have a way of ramping up the economy and would even boost a dieing manufacturing base”

Evantually. But if this stays on the Korean Peninsula and does not involved China it would not be big enough to fire up that manufacturing. Only an all-out war with a country the size of China would have that effect.

Doggone/GA

November 23rd, 2010
12:09 pm

“Do you seriously think we can afford a 3rd military engagement right now?”

I can answer that…NO, we cannot.